TsReports, LLC Girtriend_2 Page 1 of37 iol Strauss, Intorvioweo Neil Siraus: Inerviewee: Neil Sirauss: Inverviewee: Neil Sirauss Interviewee: Neil Straus: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: \wivw.escrptionist.com So anyway, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to break down sort of our interactions from our meeting to whenever. ‘And kind of talk about what happened, what each of us was thinking in a way that’s sort of helpful for guys and kind of walks them through that — the processes of attraction and two people setting together. Because « million things can go wrong elong the way. And I think that obviously was like inordinately ~ well it was a little bit kind of | complicated and strange and things going on Uh-huh. And itll be fun for me because sometimes I didn't know what you were thinking. Yeah. So welll break it down from the beginning, which was, we met at Highlands, right? Yeah. ‘And I think we were introduced by a mutual friend, or did I just, start talking to you? think ~I think we just started talking to each other, because Laura and Darren brought me after dinner. fs Soitwas jus ike okay. And thed Sit was interesting back is that | think it was your ey-gitifriend — ‘Yeah, Right.TSReports, LLC Sintiond 2 Page 20f 37 nel Svauss, interviewee Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Ineerviewee: Neil Sirauss: Invervieweer: Neil Straus: Inerviewee Neil Siraues: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Inierviewee: Neil Sirauss: nerviewer Neil Strauss: ‘won escriptonistcom ~and I couldn't got rid of her, Uh-huh, and that whole night there were two people { couldnt get rid of, tnd one of them was Your ex, and one of thesn was this like really annoying guy — Right = who was apparently fiends with your friends. Right ~ and | actually took off trom the party because he was that annoying Wow. What was he doing? Was he one of the pick up artists? ‘Yeah, He was just sort of really — he was like one of those, like, 1 don't know really how to deseribe him. Like over-zealous. But completely uninteresting, and if you can't be _ and also incredibly unattractive like overweight, losing hai. Right And so it was one of those things where he had no redeeming qualities at al. Right. ‘And yet just woulda’ take a hint. Right met = [dont even know what we bi kind ofa blur for me because 'd nigh:.TsReports, LLC Gistiend_2 Page sor 37 Interviewee: Yeah, I~ Neil Strauss: Go ahead, Interviewee: I think — oh, we were talking about stuffin D.C. I remember because that was when I was in D.C. and I was there visiting for like a week, And we were just talking about polities and stuff Hike that, | think I remember telling you about Freedom Fries for some reason. Neit Strauss Right, Okay so we wee having 90 think it was Hike dat late oF night then when I was doing this I would sort of warm up and | would actually do sort of routines just to get used to talking to people So I went through I was like floating or coasting into self-good about myself. You know, and then you ean just talk about ‘whatever yon want because i's interesting, i's a fon, kind of non- needy intereetion. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: But I did feel like there was some chemistry there. Interviewee: Yeah. And what was also interesting now that I think about itis that your ex was trying to convince me that one of your friends was hitting on me. Noil Strauss Right Interviewee: ‘And he wasnt. Neil Strauss: ‘And I felt like my ex was really kind of fi ‘whole night. Fe vote ggadten of ao ene befriend or talk shit about me — | cae fo es, ak ex there either sort of cock-blockihg./or so mile or taking things — did th ‘more interesting to meet me since i Bs ‘there versus the guy who was satanTSReports, LLC intriend_2 Page 40137 ai strane ntrviowse Interviewee nt — well at fist 1 was very indifferent. Like, like recting people jus in general Neil Straws Right Inersiowee: ‘And I had a boyftiend, and I wasn realy thinking about very much of anything Nell Sra: Right Inerviewee: So it was ust iteresting to watch her Neil Straus Ub-hah, Inerviewee And then! west really ~I wast sure what was going on with that, So that was kindof weird, And I actally I she gave me ber email and asked me (e-mail her. Neil Straus. Weird Inerviewee: And I actualy did e-mail her because - Neil Srauss: No way. Inerviewees =1-was ike what the fuck. She never responded Nell Srause: ‘Tha’ funny. Interviewee: Yeah, That—that was toully— Neil Straus That's bizare So and then I wish I could break this down more for the guys listening, but think it was really one of those things where it was just fre forall. 7 uns you Sie Goo oon or yes attention from other people, you stary ot actualy, 1 would forget what T would say to stat confeations So I wish we could break it soul 1 ei co" interesting later. fe € rset AL ety 0 we exchanged numbers and ex ! fof Inerviewee: Yeah. is Wen eserptonistcom‘TSReports, Lic Gidtriend_ 2 Page Sof 37 el Strauss, Interviewee Neil Strauss: And when we exchanged it, what were you thinking? Were you thinking Well, hey, here's a cool person I met I should stay in touch with him, they're interesting? Interviewee: Yeaia, pretty much like cool person, I keep in touch with almost everyone I meet who T think is interesting. Neil Strauss: Right, Interviewee And that might he ~ Neil Strauss: Six people so fa right? Inuerviewee. = that mrizit be different fax me then sine other people, because I'm extraordinarily good at keeping in touch with people. Neil Strauss: Youre very good at that. I'm horrible at it Interviewee Yes, you bastard, (Laughter) Neil Strauss Butit’s good, we still talk because you've forgiven me for, like, ff] don't respord to one e-mail you don't get, you know, pissed off and think that I'm not vour ftiend anv more or something or one ohone call Interviewee: ‘Yeah. And to me it depends on the person, too, Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee: Cause there are some guys who will do something on purpose and T know that Neil Strauss Right, yeah, it depends on whether its malicio. So ~ so after that we exchange e-mails rememier actualy thinking that tage because I think my ex-girltiend was, exchanged it and I knew, you knd\ Interviewee: Uh-huh, Neil Siraus: [knew you had a boyfriend, ‘wemescripuonstcomTsReports, LLC Gidtiend_2 Page 6 of 37 el Strauss, Intorioweo Interviewee Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Steauss: Interviewee: Neil Sicauss: Intorviewoo: Neil Strauce Interviewee: Neil Straus: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Sraues: Interviewee ‘wow escriptonistcom Ubshuh, But I kind of sensed -- I sensed there was something. Yeah, So I knew T wanted to stay in touch afterward, And after that we exchanged some e-mails, Yeah, And I don't know if you know this end I - there's something called "eliciting values.” Did you read about that in the book at all? Eliciting value? Fliciting values. Oh, eliciting values. Its a way, lke, to find out what somebody's really cbout, Yeah, And i's leading them throngh a series af questions and I knew like Treally liked you, I thought you were interesting — actually, you know what, | knew the whole time ‘You knew what? That | liked you? ‘That you were doing something. Like, | just knew. Right, That! was doing — in ways to say something to find something.TsReports, Lc Gintviend_2 Pager of 37 neil Strauss, nterviowoe Neil Strauss Right, that's great. See and [also think it's true that guys most of the time, women are very intuitive, you know? And most of the time they know what a guy is doing. But the question in the head is do they allow them to do it or not? Do you allow yourself to be seduced or not? Interviewee ‘Yeah, and i's not so much like I don't care what you do? Neil Strauss: Right, Interviewee: As long as people ae interesting. Neil Sass: Yeah. Interviewee: And sometimes these discussions actually to me are interesting too, Neil Strauss Right Interviewee: About values and what's important. Neil Sirauss. Right. And it’s interesting and actually answers some guy's yuestions like ob, what if | get caught, what if she knows I'ma pick up artist? You know what if she likes you and finds you interesting, its okay. She's going to follow along and see where this is going as long as, you dont do anything that's creepy or give you warning signs. Ineerviewee: Yeah, Neil Straus: Youd be okay with it. Interviewee: Yeah, Neil Strauss: ‘And so what I did was as I found that so far away, and who knew when they’ would I be in your city or you'd bei It could be days, it could be monfhi Interviewee: Right. at Sees: “Bid how doo kind ot kee tha Wiest ng? Xe S28) = ‘Worw escripuonsteom Page ofa7TsReports, LLC Gintnend_2 Page 8 of 37 nol Strauss, ntoriowee, Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss Inverviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Sicauss. Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauos: ‘Wan escripionistcom Ub-huh, So the eliciting values isa series of three questions you ask somone that gets at who they're really about so and it's not really like, you know, it wasn't like a trick or anything. Butt was a way to create a deeper connection over e-mail and find out more about you and also kind ofa fun game that keeps it going 0 you're excited to back fo the e-mail to see what I say and I'm excited to go back to see what you said You know what I remember? You never answered my - you never answered your cuestions. For you. Yeah, Oh, that was rude of me. Because I did questions and you did them back to me and I didn't answer them? Yeah, (Il answer for them now if you want. But that's funny. Really? I thought I did. No. ‘That's horrible of me, [just took and I didnt give. I could trace it. | have a lot of e-mail Okay. Yeah, I'm actually — actually just looked at the — I'm looking at it—and we also ~ the other thing we: other nicknames. Yeah. ee it ssn of fon oy of fein a ge Vintot SERS ie it ofa bnod, wich SMe ete and fa STTsReports, LLC Gietiiend_2 Page 9 0f 37 Nell Swauss, Intorvioweo Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: And gave us like in jokes, which sort of deepened the connection a litle bit. Interviewee: Ub-huh, Neil Strauss: So we did do eliciting values. ‘Which was the thing I'm looking at now is hey, as long as we're e- mailing we want to do something fun. But I ask a series of three questions that will tell you and me too alittle bit about you. Ol, and they'e easy two. So just seeing lets Jo seething fs ‘And then | think | also added ~ someone just did this with me a litle while ago. And its tue I just eared it so L was excited to do it. ‘Oh, yeah, and we were talking about nicknames. So, anyway, so we did that and I think I —the guys will learn it but its basically three questions that get deep to who you are and along the way we kind of had that ~a fun exchange for the e-mails and the jokes and it was fun to 20 back and look to see — Interviewee: Uh-huh, Neil Strauss: What the next question was for me to see what your next answer was, And [ think it carried like you were a little bit slow responding so it kind of lasted a few weeks, didn't it? Interviewee Yeah. Neil Strauss ‘And again it wasn't, like it wasn't didn't mean recessarily, you know, atracted yet it Sleep wit each ober, just {deeper connection saying well, reagen we met. Interviewee: Yeah. oil Straus. Yousgreo? Interviewee: Right,TsRepors, LLC Neil Strauss: Inierviewee Neil Strauss: Inerviewer Neil Strauss Inierviewer: Neil Sirauss: Inverviewee: Neil Straus: Interviewer Neil Sramss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: ‘ww.oscriptionistcom Gurtdend 2 Page 10 0f 37 Neil Strouss, Interviewee ‘Any other thoughts on the e-mail correspondence? Uh~ Whats that? {'m trying to think if there's anything else. I don't think so. know you and do find ~ and - ‘Ob, and you asked me about there was something about dreams or something like that. “Tha T thought was inceresing because it seemed like — you ended an e-mail once with something like when you go to sleep you're going to dream about me. ht. ‘And [ thought it was really funny. Was it funny because it was lame, or funny beeause it was interesting? i was finny heranse Twas hasiealy trying to fienre ent what you were doing, and it was like a1 wasnt sure if that was an attempt to, lise, get more into my mind or not. JM. Because this was still - I was still somewhat new to this stu. Mayise I was just six months in from a from leaming it. So I kind of warmed to the idea that if you think about me when maybe ~ you know maybe I'm not sure what I was doing then, but I think maybe I - because I don'tdo it any more. -whea I'm artracted to someone, it jist them when they're not sround. (i \ ‘Yeah.TsRoports, LLC Gietriend_2 Page 11 of 7 Neil Strauss: You know its ~so { maybe give them a little present, give them something that makes them think about you when you're not around. ‘And as they occupy their ~ when someoae occupies your thoughts — when someone occupies your thoughts it kind of ereatzs the idea that you're attracted to them, ‘So maybe that's something I was trying to do, I don’: know. Did you dream ahout me? Interviewee: No. Neil Strauss Wha thav? Interviewee: | just thought it was funny. Neil Strauss: Uh, oh yeah, and then I think along ~ I'm looking atthe e-mail now 4s we're talking — and then you started to open to me a little bit and ‘you were talking about your parents and your relationship with your parents and about your boyfriend. So we were starting to create an emotional connection because you're telling me these things about your personal life and things Tike that Interviewee: Uh-huh, Neil Straus: So we were starting to go a litte bit deeper so that we knew that no ratter what, it would be — we'd stay in ouch, we'd be talking: wed see cach other when you were in town next. Interviewee: Uh-huh. Nei Strauss And then you came to town, you came up tS Inerviewee Yeah. Nell Strauss Procite was eerste see youl eg a time nam [/6ek© ae Neil Straus: arson at en 6 HN eyo living together? AX fof ‘wow-eseriptonist com Page 11 of 37TsReports, LLc Girtiend_2 Page 120137 Neil Strauss, Intorviowee Interviewee: ell Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Srauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewees Nell Strauss Imerviewee Neil Stra. Imerviewee: Neil Strauss: ‘wonw.escriptionistcom Yeah, we were, and then I moved back fora litle bit. Like that was, | think at that point I had just moved back to L-A., and I was getting ~T was trying to figure out what I was going to do. Right. So within the next month [ moved back to D.C. Right. So I was in the middle of a rough period with him, Right. ‘And it's interesting because now when [think about it I should Ihave slept with you that night Right, and that's what [ want to talk about. And that's why | thought this conversation would be sor of interesting. Guys — I'm walking outside and just fell off step. So thought that wes interesting because we got together that night, ‘You met me at my house in Santa Monica. Ubu, ‘And we sort of ~ I think I was playing ~ 1 was with Grimble from the book was over. Uh-huh ‘Who was one of the pick up anists. ‘That guy really annoyed me. What's that? ‘That guy really annoyed me. He annoyed you? i ‘He annoyed the shit out of me. Bt 1 Vin KO Did you recognize his description he boOk? Xe Lon eae Page f20f aTTskeports, Lue Guntriend_2 Page 130f 37 il stauss nterviowoo Interviewee: Uh- Neil Strauss: ‘The guy with the smooth hairless chest? Interviewee: ‘Yeah, he just ~I don't know — there's something about him. 1 wanted — he's like one of those people { make fun of. Neil Strauss: Right Interviewee: Yeah Neil Strauss: He's very much atypical player type. Inver viewer Yea Neil Straws: ‘So we were playing, we were playing videogames, Tc was kind of fun, You walked in and right away we started playing a videogame, which is obviously with some people, is the least cool thing you could do ~ Inierviewee: Uh-huh. Neil Strauss — but you kind of had this obsessive nature, it was fun it was also hey, were’ auys, we're doing puy things, we're not going to be running sround trying to treat you any differently we're just kind of letting you into our workd, Inerviewee: Yeah. Neil Sirauss: Andit kind of broke eway the tension of us not seeing each other for so long, which is @ very natural thing to do. Inerviewee: Yeah, Neil Sirauss: And then we went out ~I can't remember, went wut, De you remember anyth Interviewer: Wait; say agein? Neil Sirauss: ‘Then we went out; [think we “He din Imorviowoo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Neil Strauss Do you remember anything?TSReports, LLC Girttiené_2 Page 1401 37 ei Srauss, Iniorviewes Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inverviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inierviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Straus Interviewee: Neil Sirauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss. Interviewee ‘wmw.escriptionistcom Uh, {just remember hanging out and which bar was it where we brought those women back? ‘And we did - did we think we left with other women that night, right? Yeah, we met like four or five women, Right. And they were pretty annoying, too, actually. Yeah. And then we took them all back to my house. Yeah, and | was kind of baffled by the whole thing at that point, Right. It just got like ineredibly bizarre Right ‘And so my nature when something gets that weird is either to leave, orto watch, Right. So I opted to watch and T think oh, and then you brought out Absinth and people were drinking and stuff and T was completcly sober that night Right So~ Right, so me~TI think that me and Grimb] Yeah, fae EO Sind lay eo esa rere e Yeah.TsReports, LLC Gistiend 2 Page 150137 [Neil Strauss, Inferviewoe Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inerviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss Intervtewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Won eserbptionistcom ‘And we got back and we kind of played dress up and took photos of each other wearing these wigs and hats. Yeah. And again it kind of turned in, kind of became a stay night and everyone drinks a little bit you come back you're having fun and then people drink Absinth cause i's kind of a transgressive thing io do, you'te drinsing Absinth, Ita liquor, but its kind of one you don't see that’s kind of banned and not allowed and has a fun ritual where you kind of burn the ‘sugar and melt it into the Absinth. Sot kind of creates a night — and all ofa sudden it tums into sort of a transgressive night where youre not in reality any more; you're in our fun ~ you're inthis fun world we've all created together, the group of us. Ubshuh, And then eventually —and I remember I noticed you were ~ I knew that you were — cause you were hanging around. | felt like at some point - I knew you were interested at some point. At some point that night, over the course of the night you became interested. Yeah. ‘You remember that point, or no? Not necessarily. No. ‘Yeah. / ‘And then s0 you waited the girls oda the girls eventually think, right? C ow ‘Yeah the girls left and then he left: | ck ¥ € - Rh ye Right, And then we werein my bed, AC Ub-huh, XQ ATsReports, LLC Girtkiond_2 Page 19 0f 37 ‘Neil Strauss, Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Imerviewee: ‘wow aserplonistcom ‘And | think I remember —I don't know —I think maybe it was, was ‘my TV in my room or there was some —I think that the TV in my room so we went there to seea video or something. Yeah, we were watching a video. ‘And then the next thing ~ then T had like ~I knew you liked me. 1 [knew you were interested. Yeah, because I was kind of fighting —I'm not. Like, [just don't have like a cheating sort of thing to me. 1 just don't care like ‘whether ~I really like I usually don't even have a boyftiend and ‘that's why I was conflicted. Right. Because my general idea is don't have a boyftiend and then do whatever you want Right. And then suddenly I was in a relationship going of, shit. Right So a: that ~that's why I said no. Right. Cause I think what happened is there was like a physical proximity and 1 knew there was the interest and then I think T went —1 forget ‘what it was, There was ail it of touching going on tat was Yeah. ‘And thon when it went to — Yeah, you were doing some game doing the wateh-stealing thing. / Oh, { was teaching you watch st Yeah,TsReports, LLC Gitriend_2 Page 17 0f 37 ‘Neil Strauss, Interviewee Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Intermewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss. Interviewee’ ‘eweseripionist.com ‘The — yeah—and the watch feeling is one of the illusions I was trying to learn where you kind of play a game and you steal the watch and then] went, I made my move during it? What; say gain? ‘And then what happened after the watch stealing? Oh, 1 remember, that's right. I think we watched the watch stealing video and tried to learn how to steal each others watches. ‘And then, ch, we did the cube thing And then we did the eube. ‘Yeah. i. And okay we did that back — we dié that siting on my bed. We played — we watched the watch-stealing video. We tried it out; dida't do very well. We had the ~I did the cube because it was kind of an i ‘moment. We ean tak. ‘And you know I did the eube because I knew what was going en but felt like just like. vou know. it wasn't comfortable enough to {just attack each other with lust and then jus start taking ard ease ino it Yeah, ‘The cube is a nice way to entera conversation that’s kind of fun and let’s you know about each other but creates a kind of moment. ‘And then when I went for that moment I remember you kind of said you had a boyfriend and couldn't do it, Yeah, no, no, what's really interestin with somebody else the next day. [yf | feel like an asshole now. Right. ‘And I balked.TsReports, LLC Nell Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Ineerviewee: Neil Strauss Inerviewes: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Siraus: Imerviewee: Neil Sirauss: eintiend_2 Page 18 0137 [Neil Strauss, Interviewee Right. And I slept with somebody else the next day. ‘That’ interesting because here's the thing. I knew —I knew after that didn't happen — ICT seen you the next night, | probably would have slept with you. Right, Exactly. And it's « funny thing that I learned is that sometimes a.no, when you get no, but then you give them time to ‘think about itand then you go back. its okay. ‘Because the no is just your instant response. No, Thave a boyfriend, but then you have time to think about it and you were kind of aroused and then you thought well if I'm attracted to this, guy how can I really be that into my boyfriend, Whatever is going fon in your mind. ‘Then maybe if | went for it again later, even that evening it may have been more possiole. Ub-huh, ‘And now cause the interesting thing was afler that you still hung out. ‘After that you still were kind of hanging out and you were still kind of talking and I felt you still wanted to be around, and you still wanted something to happen. ‘Yeah, 1 its weird because I was in kind of @ confusing time. My boyfriend was jus super-jealous. Right. And he would always accuse me ofeh Right. {i $0 I kind of just hit the wall of well, ge’ on him then shit I'm just going todd Voy \ Right.TsKeports, LLC Girtriend 2 Page 190137 Nol Strauss, Intorviowoo Amerviewee: So part of that was me acting out. Neil Straus: Right. Interviewee: ‘And then part of it was [ should of just dumped him. Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Straus: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Straus: Right, And think tha’ true. I think with guys, you know, sometimes you can do your best, or your worst, and you dorit Know it depends; sometimes it depends on whats going on in her life atthe moment. Because of issues, ata different point in the relations with your boyftiend there might have not been thet open window. Yeah, And this is what I found interesting is that so you hung out that night and I fel like you still wanted something to happen and ‘because it was still six months into this, and tha: maybe nowadays Tsvould have taken a break, et you chase me a lite bit relaxed, ‘made you think I wasnt interested in you any more and then gone for itagain, Because 1 knew that energy was there, Yeah. But back then I just sort of stopped and I kind of was confused because I knew you were hanging out Yeah, And it mostly was because | was confused, too. What's that? And part of it was I was confused, 100. L:xactly. Yeah, fs ‘And so that happened and that passé'ghd afterward I kind of ‘well, you know wit, I should of eek ‘you were interested. iE But it's fine. You know you had eG and peat Vi ‘And then what happened was much sex you Failed me and /2 knew when you e-mailed me again yout broken up with your “<7 eS ‘wiw.escriptionist comTSReports, LLC Girtriend 2 Page 200f37 ‘Neil Srauss, Intorviowoe >oyftiend and been waiting for the moment when you were sort of free Inerviewee Uh-huh, Neil Sirauss: Because you e-mailed me and it kind of mentioned breaking up with your boyfriend and I knew that e-mail was saying I'm available now. Inverviewee: Uh-huh, Neil Strauss: And so I kind of flt like as they call it in the community that was that IOT that was saying okay, let's pick up where we left off. I dont have this baggage any more. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: ‘And I think you came over and I was doing work, right? Interviewee: Uh-huh, Neil Straus: ‘You came over and I think it was a heavy ~ [ forget what it was I ‘was on some kind of deadline ~ maybe doing some kind of writing. So you came aver; we hung out. And I just sad you know what? Bring over your work. Im here doing my work. ‘We're just going to share some energy together because I like to have someone around when I work. Right? Interviewee: Yeah, Neil Straus: ‘Ané then you came over and we talked for a i a drink, made sure you were comfortabl Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: ‘Ang we kind of satin the same Interviewee: Uh-huh. Neil Strauss: And that was okay.GGintriend_2 Page21 of 37 ‘nell stauss, Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Won eseriplonistcom [liked that alot actually. Not alot of people know how to exist in that kind of apace, 2o I liked that about you a lat And to havea silence that was not an awkward silence but ¢ comfortable silence was a very sort of bonding thing. And thea after I I really remember very well I put down my computer and I shut it down and like T closed the top and like that sound meant work is over, play time has started. ‘And then [ think we just went to my bedroom and had sex. Right? Yeah ‘And we didn't — there wasnt any kind of problems or issues, because A) We'd known each other for a while by then and B) We knew we got along, C) We kind of both felt like well maybe it should have happened, last time but at least i's happening row. Yeah, Uh, so before I move on tothe rext step, ny thoughts on that? | think it was prety accurate. Yeah, and do you remember then the question I always ask people to break it down because I always want the feedback is, do you rememter the moment when you were first attracted to me? ‘Or when you first knew you were attracted to me? Probably more during the time when I went hang out with you. Right, Some time during that night. Yeah, Poge at of 7TsReports, Lic Page 220137 Neil Strauss: ‘And do you think that the fact that —and 1 don't know if it hurt us ‘orhelped us but the fact that we met these five other girls and ‘brougit them back to the hiouse —do you think that showing that, you know, was that a positive or a negative thing showing that ‘there were some other girls that were competition that there were ‘other options? Interviewee Un= Neil Strauss: Or did that not matter? Interviewee Tm pretty indifferent to other women, Nei! Strauss Right, Interviewee fm not —I just am not jeatous in any way. And really don't care Neil Strauss: ‘Well, not jealously but knowing somebody youre with has their choice of many people and they choose you Interviewee Yeah. Neil Strauss: Can be a positive trait then you're like well, they're not desperate they're not just trying to get laid or whatever they just actually have the choice of many people and they chose me because thev know what we have isa real connection, Imerviewee: Uh-huh. Neil Strauss Do you think that wasa I'm just throwing it out. Do you think that was a— Imerviewee: it kind of —in a way it kind of validsted you, because I felt they were really silly people. Neil Strauss: Right. Exactly, From the fact that they them bur Lecce but chose a classi adumb party girl. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Sirawss: Right. And then then the last hg left on this. yeh ‘And the last thing | wes going to ask you ab A that — oh yeah, /o we do have time, good. Xi Af odTSReports, LLC Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee Neil Strauss Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Srrauss: Invervtewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewe Ginthiona_2 Page 23 of 37 Neil Strauss, Interviewee ‘The ~the erazy night when I was doing the sleep experiment Oh, yeah, Wich is funny because that was a new thing for me and then my — the girl T was sort of seeing at the time was over. You came over first because I wanted you just to come over and keop me awake because after that, people always think like the ‘pick up thing is about one night stands or ths or that but every relationship was different We stayed in touch for long time after that Uh-huh | think we continued to see each other for along time. Yeah. So this is probably like a year later we're talking about, right? Yeah, ‘And you had come over you were just kind of helping me and, Herbal stay awake. Uh-huh, ‘And then that other girl eame over. She just did a drop-by. Yeah, And then she started jibing you out Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, I remember. ‘Pagets of 37TSReports, LLC Ginttiend_2 Page 24 of 37 Neil Strauss, Interviewee Neil Strauss: Right Interviewee Like she was questioning me and stuff. So that was kind of weird. Nei Strauss Yeah. Interviewee: She's like ~ she just struck me as like one of those prety gitls that I wasnt sure had substance. Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee: ‘So —and like [always am with people like that, L was kind of indifferent. Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee: And I remember I was really engrossed in this report about Sudan, Neil Straus: Uh-huh, Interviewee: So I was reading it and she wes just siting there next to me trying to question me about how I knew you. Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee: Which is annoying. Neil Straus Right asking you about — Interviewee: [was siting there, like, highlizhting pieces of this report that wanted to do activism work about, Neil Strauss: Yeah, you're trying to save the world end she's asking these dumb Inerviewee: Yeah, so it was kind of like a buzzing fl Nei Sraus: Right “arviewes! Like what are you doing? Shut C ow a J 3 Neil Sass: Right. {21 gck- we |} \2t 43> Q Inverviewee: Buttman, aly —tayehve ag er beyond that \ of — ‘won.escripionist com Page 200137TsReports, LLC Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Inverviewee: Neil Stranss: Interviewee: Nell Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Stramnss: Inverviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: ‘www eseriptionistcom ition 2 Page 25 0137 [Noll Strauss, Interviewee ‘And then — and then — then the whole thing —as you know how it ‘went dawn, [ was really confused because she — it was weird :0 have two people on the same kind of, all ofa sudden be ~she was kind of trying 0, very jealous and fiery-tempered. fet like she was trying to, you know, kind of — not like catfight. ‘but kind of mark, piss on her territory or something. Ub-huh So, you know, I went out and asked what to do. Go ahead, ‘She wes really cuddly with you. Like she made a point. Yeah, 1o demonstrate, This is my man. Yeah. ‘And then I didn't like I didn’t know what to do because | knew she would be hurt more or was like you've got to leava. But I also knew that I had invited you over first and you were my ‘quest and just because somebody comes over they can't ruin cur fur, Ub-huh, So didn't know what to do and then we both talked to Mystery and we both went up to my room. Yeah. ‘And we watched a video and were on the hed Yeah, ‘And this —just so you know —i Hos th go because I really don't know realy or hhead because she really isn't that\¢}je obBirl owes ‘ ie fe K\ BR ; ‘out with or be interested in, Yeah,TsReports, Lc Giritriend_2 Page 26 0f 37 ‘Noll Strauss Interviewee Neil Strauss Uh- Interviewee: ‘You know what was funny is when | figured out what was going ‘on thought it was so incredibly brilliant that | was like fuck it, we're going all out. Neil Stranss ‘That's hilarious. I love doing ~ you never ~ people never do this. Like they dont find out what went on in someone's mind. And ‘what I love is nobody was being tricked. ‘You knew what was going on the whole time. Inverviewee: Jas so grea; it was funny. Neil Strauss: You just allow yourself to do it. Interviewee! Yeah, Neil Strauss: Because you weren't made uncomfortable, Interviewee: Yeah Neil Strauss: ‘Or made to feel like, you know, it was something cheesy or some ‘Buy was trying to get his rocks off or whatever its. Interviewee: Yeah Neil Strauss: So what happened was we stopped and I discussed how my friend Steve P. had taught me this dual induction massage and that is true, by the way, If you go to San Diego he'll give you a dual induction massage with two women massaging my back at the same time, Interviewee ‘Okay. I thought it was bullshit atthe time; brilliant Neil Strauss: No, no it’ totally ~ that part was try Bor then ~and then 1 kne jalous: she needed tobe touchey 75 to get the at Imerviewee: ‘Uh-huh. ee eu 9G yew € Neil Strauss: So we both massaged her on rer ack mise aid you thik like this ~as soon seme Fup or was alg through it? aN = ‘Wann asorptionisteomT3Reports, LLC Gittriend_ 2 Page 27 of 7 Noll Strauss, Interviewee Interviewee: Tt was kind of like when it started and I could feel what was going Neil Strauss: Right, Because I felt, too and then when I was next and I took my shirt off and you guys were massaging me. Interviewee: Yech Neil Strauss ‘That's when I felt like the energy in the room kind of changed. Interviewee: Yeeh Neil Strano: And then the third step was we massaged you and you instantly took off your shirt and lied on your stomach Interviewee’ Yeah, Neil Strauss: ‘And what made you take off your shirt because I had Orcha's? Imerviewee think at that point it was like a free-for-all Nell Sirauss Right, exactly. ‘You know people have told me since that that whele dual induction massage thing is iust a way to make me feel more comfortable. Interviewee ‘Yeah. Neil Sirawss: Ws not necessary, actually, Iniervieweo: Yeah. Neil Strauss: But it’s just a way to make me feel moze comfortable with doing it because otherwise [ might feel uncomfortable and if une person feels uncomfortable everyone does, and it ruins it Interviewee: ‘Yeah. Neil Strauss: So that happened and then afterward, you know, you were tying on your stomach [think and the other girl and I started making out ver your back and then we sort of [turned you head up anc started making out with you. ‘And what made you sort of decide I'm going to make out with this girl? You just did decide in your mind earlier? Sremcescriptonistcom Page 7 of 7TSReports, LLC Gintriend_2 Page 28 of 37 Neil Strauss, Interviewee Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Imerviewee Neil Straus: Imerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Iniervieweo: Neil Sirauss: Inverviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Sirauss: Interviewee: ‘win. escriptionist com J think it was kind of in the middle of it. I don't really remember. Right, And then — and did you fee! at any time di you feel what ~ I think it was really spontaneous. I don't ~I don't think you ever felt like her and I had plotted it or any kind of plot It was just sort of a moment that arose, ‘Yeah, it felt spontaneous, but at the same time like I said it felt fucking brilliant for you. (Laughter) Like you know what I respect that plans original — Like man with a plan; | ean deal with that. Right. And you ~and had you been with women before? No, You never had? No Had you been curious about it? Uh, in some ways, yeah, but at the same time | really dont like women Right. [think they're very catty in many ways. And just super annoying. Right. And so what made you decide you know what I try it tonight because i was going it, it was there and it wasn't going to hhurt anyone, ‘Yeah and it's there I’m not one to seek it out. You're not one to ~ To seek it out. Page 28 of 7TSReports, LLC Neil Strauss: Ineerviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Inrarviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Nell Strauss Interviewee: irtiand_2 Page 29 of 37 Nel Struss Interviewee Right. But it was there and it was in @ com‘ortable situation and you though it was fine Yeah, ‘And I did feel like as soon as the two of you two started kissing and [ really di feel like the energy in the room like something exploded. Yeah, Did you feel that? ‘Yeah, ‘What did you think that was — just that it was like, okay, now we're really doing it? Yeah, and I think ~ I don't know how to phrase it Like you know when you just get in the heat of something, and it Just sort of happens, and its not even whether —have you ever — like when you sleep with somebody that you don't really think is that great Right But in the middle of it i's fine, Right But afterward youre like ob, okay, I'm going to go home. Neil Sirass: Right, but inthe middle you think this isthe best thing inthe world Imcervtewee Yean Neil Sirass: ‘You know because i's just out all your nerves are being stimulated and there's that bubble of passion and energy inthe room. Inverviowee: Yeah Neil Strauss: ‘Thats kird of what happened and we're etched up in our own world ‘wen eseripvonstcom Page oatTsReports, Le Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Straws: Interviewee: Neil Sirauss: Inserviewee: Neil Siraus: Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Sirauss: Interviewee: Neil Sirauss wonv.eseriptonistcom Gintriend_2 Page 30 0137 Neil Strauss, Intervewes, And then I think I took a nap in the middle of it which was kind of | fun and that was like we were all in our little world and we took a nap and that was okay, we were just together. It was like as long. as we were in that bed, we were going to be in our world. But as scon as we separated off that bed, we'd all go back to our individual lives. Yeah, because when we wert back downstairs ~ Ub-huh, and we were just hanging out and you were watching some videos, and [went back to reading my report — Right That was when she got super clingy with you and was just like hanging onto you the whole time. Right. So that made it weird again. Right. That's funny. Yeah. And then it -1 think it just got really carly morning and I went home, Right. And the other thing was interesting I think you were very Sensitive to thi, she was more ~ she was more jealous than you were, You weren't possessive of anything she did. ‘You weren't going go get all threatened by. But she felt threatened like if you went too far with me and you were kind of sensitive to that anid you dida't take it personally when that happened. No. No. You pulled me off you Yea. was like ub, okay. And I remember that because | remember you were going down there. Page 300137T3Reports, LLC Girttiond 2 Page 3t of 7 Nei Strouse, Interviewed Inierviewee: Unehuh, Neil Sirauss: ‘And it's not like this ison this on the radio so we can say what we ‘want, but anyway ~ and she, I could just see like the hair like a cet, like the hair bristling. ‘Soll knew that would ~ that would create ~ make one person ‘uncomfortable and when that did it would make everyone ‘uncomfortable Interviewee: 'No, I thought it wes interesting that you noticed it because I was ‘not ~ I didn't notice it from her until you pulled me off. Neil Strauss Right. Right. Interviewee: It was funry. Neil Strauss: ‘That's funny. And then afterward what did you think — you thought that was~I'm glad I did that and got that out of the way or ‘what did you think afterward? Interviewee: ‘That was bizarre Neil Strauss: It was bizarre. I honestly was complete ~I still and in some ways stout get i Because really not on your part but or her part because she was really, you know, throwing you shit and artitude and the fact that ‘you guys had ~ she'd been sort of a— such a competitor and now ‘that we were all together in this ~ Interviewee: Uh-huh. Neil Straus: Lump later was so ~ I still — it was still like one of the most surreal things Interviewee: Well, think part of it sometimes women want to please men even if it doesn’t make them happy. Neil Strauss Right Imerviewees So maybe that had something to do with it, Neil Strauss: Right. That's interesting; it’ almost like music. ‘There was a tension and that was a resolution. wanw-escripionist.com Page sof 37TsReports, LLC Girtriond_2 Page 22 of 37 Noi Strauss, Interviewee Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: ‘You know and i's better then there could have been worse alternatives. like revealing and things. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss ‘And also I think, you know, it's everyone wants to try something new or be adventurous, Interviewee: Right. Neil Strauss: ‘And you want — you knew ~ you'd been with me already because you knew it was sale. And you didn't fee like it was like a— you know —I con't know. But that’s interesting. I never really got it from your point of view. ‘And I guess, and the one other question is | think we always had like a very stable relationship. Like we would see each other once week. Sometimes it would be once a month, Interviewee: Yeah, Neil Strauss Sometimes it would be three times a week. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: And you never asked anything more from me. And Inever asked anything more from you and sometimes we'd get like a little more close, right, closer? Interviewee Yeah Neil Strauss: A lot of times we'd drift further apart Imerviewee: Yeah, Neil Strauss: But [never felt like we were out of balance. You know what mean? Like Inever felt somebody got too clingy with the other person Interviewee Right Neil Strauss: And is that — is that kind of the way you always are because you're ‘acool, freethinking person that doesn't have to put things in boxes and define them? ‘wmv ascriptonist.com Page iz of 37TSReports, LLC Gitrond_2 Page 23 037 [Neil Strauss, Interviewee Incerviewee [think it depends om the man. Like, these are people I date who I fall madly for = Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee ~ I felt like we had something really lke, normal and — not really normal per se, but something stable that wasn't going to blow out ‘of proportion in any way and I really needed it at that point in my life. Nell Strauss: Right. Interviewee ‘And so you were a calming presence, whereas everyone else I was dating [either made them erazy ot they drave me crazy Neil Strauss Right. Interviewee ‘And a lot of times, like, I would hang out with you and there were like six people I wouldn't call back Neil Strauss: Right. Interviewee: ‘And most of that Was because I knew what fo expect from you, and knew that you wouldn't freak out on me. Because most men, like, ip out on me, Neil Straus: Yeah, And that was the last thing I wanted to touch was that I knew you were — you know, you hala few other guy's on the string, You knew I was probably sleeping with other girls ‘You knew that, right? Interviewee: ‘Yeah. Neil Strauss ‘Yeah, And that was okay: it didn't taint what we were doing. Interviewee: ‘Yeah, and in genera I always assume that other people, antes I'm seeing somebody every day Neil Sires: Right Interviewee ~ then obviously we can't be seeing anybody else because there's xno physical time. Neil Strauss: Right. ‘ween oscriptonisteon Pages of 37TsReports, LLC intriend_2 Page 34of37 Inerviewee Neil Sirauss: Interviewee Nell Stramss Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: Interview Nil Stra Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Imerviewee: Neil Strauss But [always assume people are Right Until we have a talk of okay, we're going to nat see anybody else. Right ‘And usually Twouldat even agree. ‘And think sometimes guys who are seeing other people feel insecure and they fee like that person need to know that they're tie only one. And that’s actually when you ruin it because now you've created a le Yeah ‘And like ~ ‘Yeah, so I felt safer with you than with other people because any other guy that literally I donit know there's something about me that makes people either just freak out and fallin love with me and then, like, want to see me all the time. Right ‘And I can't handle that, or I'll meet somebody that I want to see all the time and I'm, like, I honestly I ean' really handle that cither, Right ‘And I think that's because they can't get you ~ youlre a busy person and they can never get you all, Yeah You're always going to have other loves and passions. Interviewee: Yeah. Neil Strauss: ‘Whether that's @ person, or your work, ora cause, And I think that frustrates the guys who need fo own someone 100 percent, Interviewee Yeah ‘wo ecariptonietcom Page 3001 7TsReports, LLC Gintriend_2 Page 38 0137 Nol Strauss, Intarviewse Neil Siraus: Inerviewee: eit Sirauss Invervienee. Neil Strauss: Inerviewee: Neil Strauss: Imcerviewee! Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss Interviewee: Neil Strauss: Interviewee: Neil Sirauss: Interviewee Neil Strauss: And think the thing is you're unmet and I think it like ~ I think of that energy at the beginning? That was the energy that was there. ‘And you just trust that you have a relationship und you let it follow its natural course without trying fo influence tor put it somewhere. Yeah. AAndI think that’s kind of cool and I also think that's why we're like stil, you know, talking after so many ~ so much time and so many years. eal And now the last question. Has it been like three years or two years? Yeah, its been like two ~ at least two years, two end a half years. Two years, yeah Uh, and you were — how old were you when I met you? Twenty-one You were 21 And the fact that I was older wasnt a bad thing? No. [was a good thing? Good thing. You're awesome, It's so much essier being a guy. ‘Yeah, its weird because I don’t really think that men have much stock until they're 30. Right. Yeah, sure. ‘And the last thing 1 was going to ask you about if! — now if I could just remember it ‘wonw escriptonistcom Page 35 of 37TsRoports, LLC Gitriond 2 Page 36 01 37 Nel Strauss, Inforviowee. Is—oh yeah, Now that you knew — when you found out afterward, = because I know you read The Game. Interviewee: Ub-huh, Neil Strauss: | know you found out the cube was something I leamed from a secret society of pick up artists. Interviewee: Uh-huh, Nell Straus: So the fact— because people always ask me this. The fact that I ‘used material ~ and I'm sure 1 used a lot of other things in the book on youalso ~ Interviewee: Ub-hut. Neil Sirauss: — does that cheapen anything er anything of what we had? Interviewee Uh -~ not realy, no. Neil Strauss Yeah. Imerviewee 1 think the stuf? that really ~ that [liked about you wasn't stuff that you used on me, Neil Strauss Right. And I agree, Interviewee ‘The other stuff I thought was ineredibly funny. Neil Straus: Right, ‘And I egree I think those were vehicles for sustaining my personality or make me feel comfortable in situations, Interviewee: ‘Yeah and like [told you, what a few months azo every ~ think cvetytling that you assumed was wiattractive was what Iiked about you. Neil Strauss: Yeah. And its funny and with this —I think that was a process wes learning that — was learning to like myself Interviewee Yeah, Neil Straws: ‘You know? And that's the evolution that healthy guys go through is you learn that with whatever you have; whatever faults or ‘won aseriptonistcom "Page 20 of3a7TsReports, LLC Gintriend_2 Poge 37 of 37 Strauss, interviewee whatever things you have, people are going to love you for that if you love that about yourself Imerviewee Yeah. Neil Strauss: ‘As long as you keep the certain social criteria like being well groomed and moderately interesting. all those things and the Joumey was to come out the other end and be that new self. Because you can still be the same person in the same body in the same clothes and the same personality but be an all-new person because you ~ fiom the deepest inside to the outside thick and thin and through and out love that person and... [End of Audio} ‘Wanweserptionistcom Page a7 ofa7