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CENTER FOR MINISTRY TRAINING
CHURCH PLACEMENT OFFICE
TABLE OF CONTENTS
STEP 1: New Pastor Needed....................................................................................................... 4
STEP 2: Deacons Recommend Search Committee ...................................................................... 4
STEP 3: Search Committee Affirmed by the Church................................................................... 5
STEP 4: Search Committee Organized........................................................................................ 5
STEP 5: Determine Profile for New Pastor ................................................................................. 6
STEP 6: Church Questionnaire ................................................................................................... 6
STEP 7: Find Potential Candidates ............................................................................................. 7
STEP 8: Receive from All Available Sources ............................................................................. 7
STEP 9: Request Initial Information ........................................................................................... 8
STEP 10: Possible Interviews ..................................................................................................... 8
STEP 11: Visit with Candidate on His Field ............................................................................... 9
STEP 12: Consider and Present Best Candidate .......................................................................... 9
STEP 13: Recommend to the Church.......................................................................................... 9
STEP 14: Invite Candidate to Preach .......................................................................................... 9
STEP 15: Candidate Meets with Deacons ................................................................................... 9
STEP 16: Church Affirms with Vote......................................................................................... 10
STEP 18: Candidate Affirmed and Accepts............................................................................... 10
STEP 19: Search Committee Dismissed.................................................................................... 10
STEP 20: New Pastor is Called ................................................................................................. 11
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APPENDIX A .......................................................................................................................... 12
STEP 4: Search Committee Organized – Procedure of Operation
APPENDIX B........................................................................................................................... 13
STEP 6: Church Questionnaire
Letter to the Congregation from Search Committee
APPENDIX C........................................................................................................................... 15
STEP 6: Church Questionnaire
Profile to the Members of _________________ Church
STEP 9: Personal Biographical Sketch
APPENDIX E........................................................................................................................... 19
STEP 9: Doctrinal Questions and Survey
STEP 10: Additional Questions to be Answered by the Candidate
STEP 10: Discussion Thoughts for the Personal Interview
STEP 10: Other Information to be Asked by Search Committee
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STEP 1: New Pastor Needed
Seeking the Will of God in Finding a New Pastor
1. Seeking the will of God is the first and foremost step in securing a new pastor. Jesus Christ is
the Head of the Church and there must be a spiritual attitude of submissiveness to Him and His
guidance. The attitude of earnestly desiring the absolute will of God ought to permeate the
Pastor Search Committee.
3. No event is as crucial to the future of the church as is the selection of a new pastor; therefore it
warrants the most careful consideration.
STEP 2: Deacons Recommend Search Committee
Persons Serving on the Pastor Search Committee are to be Recommended by the Deacons and
Approved by the Church
1. All Search Committee members should be persons who are willing to serve the church, because
it will require much work! They must be spiritually motivated to give their best, for that is
what it will take.
2. All Search Committee members should have earned the respect of fellow church members by
their demonstrated Christian maturity and involvement in the life and work of the church. They
must have the confidence of the church membership.
3. The number of members of the Search Committee will be seven.
4. The Search Committee will organize itself with a chairman, an associate chairman, and a
secretary/clerk.
7. All Search Committee business should be held in strict confidence by all Search Committee
members. Indiscretion on the part of any member of the Search Committee can result in injury
to the church, and/or any candidate being considered. Improper care and breach of confidence
is inexcusable and not acceptable. The lack of confidentiality can create problems among the
committee members and in the church; and “leaks” of information will produce a lack of
integrity within the church.
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8. The absolute confidential handling of all candidate information is necessary. Sharing this
information is not ever to be considered, even with spouses. Discretion, integrity, and wisdom
are required of the Search Committee.
9. Good ethical conduct and practice mean that Search Committee members will place the welfare
of the church above any personal viewpoints and pet ideas. Sensitivity to the needs of the
church requires Search Committee members to be led by the Holy Spirit in search for the
decisions that must be made.
STEP 3: Search Committee Affirmed by the Church
The Church Approves the Search Committee with a Pledge of Prayer Support
1. Throughout the entire search process the Search Committee will make it a matter of prayer
priority to find the person God has to be the new pastor. Each meeting of the Search
Committee will begin with prayer, with each member praying audibly from their knees. Not
only will this approach open their hearts to the Lord and His will, but it is also a powerful
weapon against satanic attacks at this crucial time for the church.
3. Intercession for the search process should not be just one more item on the prayer list. It must
be priority!
STEP 4: Search Committee Organized
An Organized Procedure Will be Followed for the Process of Finding a New Pastor
1. The Search Committee will establish procedures of operation, such as the Twenty Steps. By
establishing a procedure of operation, the Search Committee will eliminate much confusion
among its members.
2. The chairman of the Pastor Search Committee should communicate from time to time with the
church to inform them of what is being done to prevent misunderstanding and encourage
patience.
3. The duties and chief responsibilities of the Search Committee are:
a. Establish an orderly procedure of operation.
b. Establish a profile of characteristics desired in a new pastor.
c. Secure information about prospective candidates.
d. Investigate prospects to determine their qualification to meet the established
characteristics desired.
e. Interview choice prospects one at a time.
f. Invite prospects to visit with the Search Committee.
g. Decide and agree to recommend one prospect to the church for a vote of approval.
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h. After one prospect is affirmed, notify all others who are being considered.
4. See Procedure of Operation (Appendix A).
5. The Search Committee may seek the counsel of highly respected leaders that they may enlist –
pastors and evangelists who have sources to recommend. It is important to guard against
merely considering some friend of a Search Committee member or church member without
adequate prayer and information, and submitting that person to the process of search. The help
of former pastors and/or the resigning pastor can be a vital link of continuity. The former
pastor should not be permitted to designate his successor by manipulation of the process, but
his advice and counsel can be invaluable and should be sought.
STEP 5: Determine Profile for New Pastor
Know the Characteristics Desired in a New Pastor
1. The Search Committee will prepare a profile list of characteristics and qualifications that are
desired in a new pastor; such a list will serve as a guideline for evaluating specific persons.
2. The Search Committee will be wise to permit the congregation to express themselves as to this
profile.
3. By seeking God’s leadership and prayerfully reaching an agreement on the kind of pastor
needed, the Search committee can greatly reduce the frustration of the assignment of finding a
new pastor.
4. The Search Committee can determine a profile by arranging the following list in the order of
what they consider important (numbering from 1 to 8):
__ Administration, organizational ability
__ Enthusiasm for visitation
__ Works well with young people
__ Preaching ability
__ Personal evangelism and soulwinning
__ Warm, friendly personality
__ Ability to give counsel
__ Other
STEP 6: Church Questionnaire
A Questionnaire Will Be Distributed for the Congregation to Describe the Characteristics and
Profile They Desire
1. Letter to Church from Search Committee (Appendix B)
2. Questionnaire for Church (Appendix C)
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STEP 7: Find Potential Candidates
The Search Committee Will Find Potential Candidates
Here are some spiritual and character qualifications that, according to I Timothy 3 and
Titus 1, every pastor should possess:
1. Outward Reputation
Have a good reputation even when his life is lived as an open book (I Tim. 3:2; Tit.
1:7)
Be well thought of, even by those outside the church (I Tim. 3:7)
Be irreproachable in his marital relations (I Tim. 3:2; Tit. 1:6)
In other words, a pastor is to be a man who has a good reputation in his church, in
the community, and in his home.
2. Inner Disposition
Not selfish, quicktempered, intemperate, violent, or overly interested in material
things (I Tim. 3:3; Tit. 1:7)
Have a love for people and for that which is good (I Tim. 3:2; Tit. 1:8)
Be sensible, mature, wellbalanced, and selfcontrolled (I Tim. 3:2; Tit. 1:8)
Be Christ like and devoted to God (Tit. 1:8)
A pastor with the right kind of inner disposition should have right attitudes toward
himself and toward God, and should reflect Christian maturity.
3. Christian Experience
Not a novice or new convert (I Tim. 3:6)
Prove himself faithful and able to guide others by managing his own household
well; should have believing and obedient children (I Tim. 3:4; Tit. 1:6)
Be a skillful teacher (I Tim. 3:2), one who has been taught what is true and knows
how to teach it to others (Tit. 1:9)
STEP 8: Receive from All Available Sources
The Search Committee Will Consider All Sources for Recommendations for a New Pastor
1. The Search Committee will diligently consider many sources to give recommendations for
prospects, and not limited to only one or two.
2. Persons in Christian organizations who are held in high regard and respect, and those who are
friends of the local church, will provide choice sources for recommendations.
3. Not all persons recommended will be what the church needs, but in order to find the person
God has for the church, all recommendations should be considered.
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STEP 9: Request Initial Information
The Search Committee Will Seek Initial Information from Candidates
1. The Search Committee will seek initial information from all candidates. This will enable the
Search Committee to determine which candidates to consider further.
2. Personal Biographical Sketch (Appendix D)
3. In the biographical sketch, the prospective candidate will give some references and other
responses. This stage of the process requires careful consideration and attention. It will take
time and patience, but it is time well spent.
4. Doctrinal questions to be answered in initial information application (Appendix E).
5. The Search Committee must not shortchange the process by failing to get adequate references
and other responses. This stage of the process requires careful consideration and attention. It
will take time and patience, but it is time well spent.
STEP 10: Possible Interviews
The Search Committee Will Schedule a Personal Interview if the Candidate is to be Considered
Further
1. Not all of the prospective candidates will require further consideration other than the initial
information received. The Search Committee will determine which should be contacted.
2. By the time the Search Committee meets facetoface with the candidate, it already knows
much about him from the initial information received, references contacted, and other inquiries
made by the Search Committee.
3. The Search Committee may have already asked for a sample taped sermon message at the time
of the initial information request.
4. Additional Questions to be Answered by the Candidate (Appendix F)
5. Discussion Thoughts for the Interview (Appendix G)
6. Other Information to be Considered (Appendix H)
7. At this interview such matters as salary, housing, allowances, moving expenses, and other
matters will be discussed. There must not be any misunderstanding or vagueness regarding
these matters.
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STEP 11: Visit with Candidate on His Field
The Search Committee May Visit the Candidate on His Field if Necessary
1. Depending upon the circumstances and/or what is most convenient, the Search Committee
could visit the candidate on his field for an interview.
2. The Search Committee should be sensitive to the situation and protect the candidate with
privacy and confidentiality.
3. Surprise and unannounced visits are not the best way to conduct the business which is being
sought. The Search Committee may extend the prospective candidate the courtesy of
telephoning him and getting his approval for such a visit.
STEP 12: Consider and Present Best Candidate
Considering All Information and Factors the Search Committee Will Decide Upon the Best
Candidate and Present Him to the Church
1. The Search Committee will weigh all the factors involved. All the factors are not equal; some
are more important than others. This should be taken into consideration.
2. A warning: Be sure each Search Committee member considers all the factors before selecting
the best candidate possible.
3. Both the Search Committee and the church should understand that the candidate is not to be
judged only on the basis of a sermon delivered, but rather on the basis of the thorough
examination and information of the candidate. This is the basis of the recommendation of the
Search Committee to the church.
4. After fully considering all factors, the Search Committee will make a decision and recommend
the best candidate to the church for affirmation and approval. This decision will be a united
agreement from all of the members of the Search Committee.
STEP 13: Recommend to the Church
STEP 14: Invite Candidate to Preach
STEP 15: Candidate Meets with Deacons
1. When the best candidate is selected by the Search Committee, the candidate will be invited to
preach before the church.
2. Only one candidate at a time will be recommended and invited to preach before the church.
This enables the church to consider only that candidate, not engage in a “popularity contest.”
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3. Preaching contests where several possible candidates are to be considered in one vote are to be
avoided. Having one candidate at a time with a “yes” or “no” vote with a threefourths
majority necessary for approval is the best (according to FBC Bylaws).
4. The candidate may have a meeting with the Search Committee and the deacons at this time.
STEP 16: Church Affirms with Vote
The Church Will Affirm the Candidate with a Ballot Vote
1. There ought to be a short time after the visit of the candidate and the vote of the church. This
will give an opportunity for both to pray and seek God’s will in this important matter.
2. The vote for the calling of a pastor will be by secret ballot. It is wise to present this at the
service that will have the best attendance possible.
3. The Search Committee has selected only one candidate; therefore, there is no competitive
voting (FBC Bylaws require a threefourths majority vote for the calling of a pastor).
4. If the response of the candidate is positive, then he should be assured that a letter will soon be
sent giving the specifics in detail of the call.
5. The call of a pastor should always be made for an indefinite period. A vote that is required
each year takes away a sense of security for both the pastor and the church.
STEP 17: If Not Affirmed, Go Back to #12 and Repeat
If the candidate is Not Affirmed, the Search Committee Will Go Back to Step #12 and Repeat the
Process
1. While it is possible for a church not to affirm what the Search Committee has recommended,
rarely will that happen.
2. If so, then the Search Committee will return to STEP 12 and consider the list of candidates and
select another for further consideration.
STEP 18: Candidate Affirmed and Accepts
The Deacons Lead the Church to Arrange a Welcome for the New Pastor and His Family
1. Letters should be written to any person the Search Committee has contacted to inform them of
the action of the church in calling a new pastor.
2. The deacons will arrange to welcome the new pastor with these services:
a. Make the first Sunday very special; have a large attendance to welcome the new pastor.
b. Arrange for a reception, perhaps on Sunday evening.
c. At an early date, conduct an installation service, inviting appropriate people (such as
former pastor), local pastors, and friends of the church.
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STEP 19: Search Committee Dismissed
The Search Committee Should be Dismissed with Proper Commendation
1. The church should want to do something appropriate to express their gratefulness for the
Search Committee and the diligent work they have performed.
2. If the search process has gone like most, the Search Committee has shared, prayed, and worked
together so closely that they have forged new and lasting friendships. This is an unseen
blessing for serving on the Search Committee.
STEP 20: New Pastor is Called
New Pastor Arrives and Begins Ministry
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APPENDIX A
STEP 4: SEARCH COMMITTEE ORGANIZED: PROCEDURE OF OPERATION
1. Before a formal search can be done, the Search Committee should first prepare a profile of the
desired new pastor and what they are looking for.
2. A questionnaire for the church may be distributed to the congregation to get their input.
Special groups (deacons, ministry teams, etc.) may be asked to share their views about the kind
of pastor needed.
3. By seeking the Lord’s leadership and the church members’ input, and prayerfully reaching an
agreement on the kind of pastor needed, the Search Committee can greatly reduce the
frustration of their assignment.
4. The Search Committee can save themselves hours later if they first agree on and establish some
ground rules and operation procedures such as: 1) how prospects will first be contacted; 2) how
candidates will be evaluated; 3) dividing questions among Committee members to ask the
candidate when interviewed, etc.
5. The Search Committee will ask and receive from each person they decide to pursue:
a. Initial information
i. Personal Biographical Sketch (Appendix D)
ii. Doctrinal Questions Survey (Appendix E)
b. Personal references to be checked (these are to be checked out carefully)
6. After studying carefully the qualifications of each prospect, the Search committee will place
these names in priority order. There is no rush, for this is important information to be received.
7. Select the first choice and proceed. Invite that prospect for an interview, or visit with him on
his field.
8. Questions and items of discussion are to be from both the candidate and the Committee. The
Search Committee will distribute among its members:
a. Additional Questions (Appendix F)
b. Discussion Thoughts for Interview (Appendix G)
c. Other Information to be Considered (Appendix H)
9. When the Search Committee is united in their choice for a prospective person, they can
recommend that he be invited to preach before the church, and for a vote of affirmation to be
taken.
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APPENDIX B
STEP 6: CHURCH QUESTIONNAIRE: LETTER TO THE CONGREGATION FROM
SEARCH COMMITTEE
Date
Dear Church Family Members:
Our church has entrusted seven fellow members with the task of seeking a successor to our pastor,
__________________, who has retired. We trust you will remember us in prayer as we fulfill this
responsibility in a Godhonoring manner.
It is very important that we have your complete support in prayer. We are aware of the great
responsibility we have in seeking God’s will for a pastor for our church. We must all submit our wills
to Him as never before, and trust the Holy Spirit of God to meet our need!
We are aware that many may already have preferences and we ask you to be patient and prayerful and
permit us to seek all possibilities in God’s timing.
Never before have we needed unity as we do now. Determine through prayer that you will be
submissive one to another and not permit or develop an independent spirit to disrupt this divine task, or
to hinder in any way the sweet, sweet spirit of our church. We stand together patiently and prayerfully
that the body of Christ not be fragmented in any way! God forbid!
Please respect the confidentiality of our task as the Search Committee. We have agreed together that
we will not share the important business we are transacting with anyone, even our spouses, until the
proper time. The violation of confidentiality could create problems for the church and the Committee,
and produce a lack of integrity on our part; and “leaks” of information could cause personal harm to
the person or persons being considered. This violation is not acceptable!
It may be helpful to you if we share some information about the procedures by which the Search
Committee has agreed to operate:
2. We shall select after prayer and mutual counsel those persons who seem to us to be the most
promising. We shall write and/or call them to determine their possible interest, and from
interviews decide which one we wish to recommend for our congregation to consider.
4. It is our prayerful hope that the Lord may lead us to make a united recommendation for you to
consider.
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Please remember that this responsibility of searching for a new pastor will require some time. We
need your patience and confidence. It is not possible for us to tell anyone whom we are considering,
lest the prospective candidate be embarrassed in an untimely manner; so please understand when we
cannot talk about this.
We could be absent on certain Sundays, but do not ask us where we are going, where we have been, or
whom we have seen.
We are enclosing a questionnaire that will help us in our task. Please fill it out and bring it to church
so that we can use this information in our search for a pastor. Also enclosed is a diagram of the search
process, Twenty Steps to Finding a Pastor. Please understand that when we are ready to make a
recommendation, all church members will be given a complete information report about the person
whom we will ask you to consider.
Thank you for the trust you have placed in us, and please do not fail to remember us in prayer.
Sincerely,
Pastor Search Committee
____________________________________________________________ Chairman
____________________________________________________________ Assistant Chairman
____________________________________________________________ Clerk
____________________________________________________________ Member
____________________________________________________________ Member
____________________________________________________________ Member
____________________________________________________________ Member
Enclosure: Church Questionnaire
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APPENDIX C
STEP 6: CHURCH QUESTIONNAIRE
Profile to the Members of (Insert Church Name) Church
What qualities do you consider to be important in the next pastor of our church? What direction do
you think the total program of the church should be taking?
The Search Committee is eager to know how you feel about these questions. If you will carefully
answer the following questions, giving your input and opinion, you will help us in our effort to find the
person to lead our church!
1. Please number in order of importance (1 to 8) what you consider to be the most important
qualities in a prospective pastor.
__ Administrative/organizational ability
__ Works with young people
__ Enthusiasm for visitation
__ Preaching ability
__ Personal evangelism and soulwinning
__ Warm, friendly personality
__ Ability to give counsel
__ Other: __________________________________
2. Would you like our church to have more or less emphasis on the following?
Write “More” for “I would like greater emphasis.” Write “Less” for “I would like less
emphasis.” Write “Same” for “I would like about the same emphasis as now.”
__ Expository Bible preaching
__ Evangelistic preaching
__ Personal evangelism
__ Group Bible study
__ Small group prayer
__ Young people’s activities
__ Foreign and home missions
__ Fellowship activities
3. Please indicate your gender:
__ Male
__ Female
4. Please indicate your age:
__ Over 50
__ 3550
__ 2025
15
__ 1520
5. If you have an age preference for a new pastor, please check:
__ 2535
__ 3545
__ Over 45
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APPENDIX D
STEP 9: PERSONAL BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
Name: _______________________________________________
Home Address: ________________________________________
_____________________________________________________
Phone: _______________________________________________
(Attach your picture
Birthplace: ____________________________________________ in this space)
Marital Status: _________________________________________
Wife’s Maiden Name: ___________________________________
Wife’s Home Town: ____________________________________
Children (in age order): _______________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
Formal Education: Year/Degree
__________________________________________________________________________________
(High School)
__________________________________________________________________________________
(College)
__________________________________________________________________________________
(Seminary)
__________________________________________________________________________________
(Other)
Christian Service:
________ to ________ __________________________________________________________
________ to ________ __________________________________________________________
________ to ________ __________________________________________________________
________ to ________ __________________________________________________________
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Present Health Condition: ___________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
Confidential References:
Name: ____________________________________________________________________________
Address: __________________________________________________________________________
Name: ____________________________________________________________________________
Address: __________________________________________________________________________
Name: ____________________________________________________________________________
Address: __________________________________________________________________________
Please give a brief testimony of your conversion and call to preach: _________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
Business and/or Military Experience: __________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
Other Information: _________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________
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APPENDIX E
STEP 9: DOCTRINAL QUESTIONS AND SURVEY
Write a brief explanation of your beliefs in the following areas:
1. Your view of the Scriptures
2. Your view of evangelism (world and local)
3. Your view of church government (pastor, deacon, congregation)
4. Your view of church growth and suggested plans
5. Your plan of worship services and use/style of music
6. Your plan of visitation (personally and by church members)
7. Your convection on tongues, miracles, and healings
8. Your conviction on the use of alcoholic beverages and drugs
9. Your conviction concerning abortion
10. Your position on the security of the believer
11. Your position concerning eschatology
12. Your position concerning ecclesiastical separation
Other Comments:
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APPENDIX F
STEP 10: ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED BY THE CANDIDATE
1. Briefly explain your own assessment of your spiritual gift or ability for the ministry.
2. In your current ministry, what is the most rewarding/satisfying area of work? Why?
3. In your current ministry, what is the most frustrating/lease satisfying area of work? Why?
4. Have you ever been divorced?
5. Has your wife ever been divorced?
6. In your opinion, what is the single, most pressing need of the evangelical church in this
country?
7. Describe your personal habits in the last twelve months in the following areas:
a. Personal prayer and devotional life (apart from sermon preparation)
b. Personal evangelism, soulwinning
c. Family nurture
d. Physical exercise
8. Have you grown/matured spiritually in the past two years? In what area?
9. Please list some of the books you have read in the past two years that have impressed you.
10. In terms of your personal ministry, what is the most significant book you have read (other than
the Bible)? Why?
11. Write a brief sentence or two on these four subjects as far as priority for a pastor:
b. To master the study of the Word of God
c. To model a commitment to pray
d. To multiply leaders in the church
12. Other Comments:
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APPENDIX G
STEP 10: DISCUSSION THOUGHTS FOR THE PERSONAL INTERVIEW
(To be divided among the Search Committee members)
1. Please describe three or four of your favorite achievements. (What did you do? How did you
do it? What happened? What was the most satisfying thing about that achievement?)
2. What do you see as your personal strengths and weaknesses?
3. In what ways do you and your wife complement each other?
4. Describe the current dynamics in your own spiritual life. What is God doing in you right now?
5. Describe the training, experience, and special talents that have prepared you for this position.
a. Education
b. Goals (personal and family)
c. Personal study and communion with God
d. Health and exercise
6. What do you consider to be your major strengths?
7. What has been your greatest struggle?
8. What is your philosophy of decision making? How do you make decisions?
9. Please list your special interests and hobbies.
10. Without giving a financial disclosure statement, what is the current status of your
personal/family finances?
11. What is your philosophy about missions and the involvement of the church?
12. (For the wife:) Give a brief testimony of your salvation, call to the Christian ministry, Christian
experiences, spiritual gifts, education, goals (personal and family), personal study habits, and
personal prayer and devotional habits.
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APPENDIX H
STEP 10: OTHER INFORMATION TO BE ASKED BY SEARCH COMMITTEE
By inquiring from references, calling former associates, etc., the following information should be
considered by the Search Committee:
1. What do members of his former church(es) think of his ministry?
2. If there are others on his church staff, what do they think?
3. How do other pastors and denominational workers regard his work, and regard him personally?
4. What kind of husband and father is he?
5. What is his wife like? What are her abilities as a homemaker, as a wife/mother, and as a
church worker? Is she friendly? Does she minister to others?
6. Are his children wellbehaved? Are they Christian?
7. How does he get along with people?
8. Does he control his temper?
9. What are his personal habits in regards to amusements?
10. Is he a people person, and/or is he interested in helping others?
11. Does he have a servant’s heart?
12. How well does he minister to the sick, the needy, and people in trouble?
13. What is his moral record?
14. What ability does he have as a preacher, teacher, soul winner, and leader of people?
15. How does he appeal to people regarding stewardship and finances?
16. How active is he in organizations in the community other than the church?
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