A conversation on Fr. Woytila at the “Angelicum” 1946-1948 (and beyond) (The Angelicum 29 April 2011, 11.00-1300 a.m.) First: Rome November 1946.0 1948.Just after the war. General situation in Rome and Europe: half of it after Nazism dominion under Communist Soviet: consequence of the Yalta Conference. No heating, no traffic, difficult to get some commodities,. Life rather poor. Easier for him coming from Poland, more for me, coming from abundant then rich Argentina, Second, The Angelicum those years: students, professors; those we remembered best: Duncker, Philippe, Lumbreras, Vosté. Ceuninck, Garrigou-Lagrange, Gillon. The catalogue always kept with me, nobody knows why. With the academic results (Picture here). Third. The instruction was very classical. Only Latin, The Summa Theologica as basic. Good to form your mind. Not very open for personal thought and mental flights. Remarkable for the teaching of Hebrew and (to some extent) Holy Scripture. Strict academic discipline. Perhaps for some, coming from Eastern Europe, some form of spying or at least strict control from their countries. Woytila stayed not in any Polish institution but in the Belgian College, now in apartment house: via del Quirinale. The Rector then Mons. De Furstenberg (not the German branch; the Belgian -Dutch one). Then Nuntius and Cardinal. I suspect he had a part in the scholarship Fr. Woytila got some time after returning to Poland for a year study of Philosophy at Louvain University. Strangely enough the Government allowed him to go. Myself in the Argentine Church, (Then the Fathers of Our Lady of Mercy; now the Argentine College) viale Regina Margherita. No public transport: used myself a Bicycle to move around. What do I remember from those years? Woytila Very discreet, keeping to himself. Travel to see Father Pio (rather unexpected; Saint Pio then under some suspicion: some works on him in the Index). But then beatified and canonized by him. .(I was never aware of the so called “prophecy”). No survivor from those years, except if he is still alive Fr. Julio del Nifio Jess OCD from Spain but, lived and worked and taught Theology in Montevideo Uruguay. Fourth.. However, the future Pope never forgot. To my surprise. What happened in between? Didn’t see each other for many years. He in the Council, young Bishop then Archbishop, my self an expert (so called). Our path did no often cross: I worked mostly with Argentine and Latin American Bishops. But took good notice of his interventions and wrote down in my diary most of what he said (see the Index of my book “Una Presencia en el Concilio, p.580 Pieture here) When once I tried to visit Poland (1968) only got a visa for 24 hours: just the time to change planes. Decided not to go. Saw him et a distance when he preached the annual retreat to the Roman Curia, where | was not at that tine, but here on a meeting. Cardinal Pironio from Argentina then Prefect of Religious, introduced me rather imegularly for the opening meditation:; I was impressed by the depth of his thought and presentation. Complete text after published Fifth, The first time we really met , myself in the Curia since September 1977:The Pope just elected. Mid November 1978. A general meeting of the Council for promoting Christian Unity, I ‘was at the time Secretary of the Commission for religious relations with the Jews related to that Council. The new Pope wanted to meet his collaborators. Cardinal Willebrands then our President introduced one after the other. My turn arrived, my name and office mentioned, the Pope said. Noneed for introduction We have known each other for the last fifty years. I was completely taken aback and so were the rest of thoss present. (Pieture here) Sometimes called me “Jorge”.(Pieture here) Appointed Bishop by him 25 years ago when named Vice President of the Pontifical Council Justice and Peace, then created Cardinal when appointed Archivist and Librarian January 2001. In a true way I owe to him all I am, now. Hopefully also a serious decision towards becoming better than I am. Sixth, Intense collaboration all the years of his Pontificate. Tried to be helpful. Let me mention two or three remarkable occasions: First. the preparation for the meeting of all Religions at Assisi October 1986,Cardinal Etchegaray and myself practically in charge of it. His three very concrete instructions, One: not in Rome, “I want to be a pilgrim as all the others”. Two, Fasting: the whole day only provide water. Three: long time for prayer each religion on his own, the Pope with the Christian. Then all together in the Piazza before the St. Francis Basilica, but (he insisted on this) each religious group prays in the presence of the others, no shared prayers except before the Catholic with the other Christian... Everybody agreed. Second, The visit to the Synagogue in Rome. There was a proposal to visit a Synagogue during some visit to the USA. My opinion was asked: I said. “Your Holiness; first if possible to the Synagogue in your own Diocese. He said: “you think itis possible?”. I answered. “I can try”. It became possible, as we all know.: Sunday 13 April 1986. Also a precedent was set: Pope Benedict also went. to the Roman Synagogue. I believe this becomes now a normal part of the ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Third: the commemoration of Leo XIII’s “Rerum novaeum” whose public result was the Eneyclical “Centesimus annus”. ‘There ‘was some exchange on other matters in which I shall not enter. He gave me the impression he relied for some matters in his ancient classmate. And there was sometimes a direct unexpected communication: my phone rang: it was he. Never had believed such thing would or could happen. Seventh, Some anecdotes for what they are worth. He used to say with a smile “he (meaning me) knew Thomistic Theology better than I did ”, More the once; also in public. Said it for everybody to hear, during the celebration for the centenary of this house of study. Then I said to the Pope when I approached him to greet him at the end: “Holy Father, you embarrass me”. He answered: “Why: it is true”. Then I said or found the courage to say: “Sorry, I am afraid in this Your Holiness is not infallible”. He simply smiled. And some other time, asked me: “Why did you interrupt the professors during the courses at the Angelicum. ?”. He remembered the young imprudent Argentinian | was; sure of what I thought I knew. My answer: “I was not always convinced by what I heard”. Then he said: “you had over me an advantage: you had followed a normal course of Philosophy in your Seminary; I hadn't”: Seminaries had been suppressed by the Nazi occupation in Poland. My timid comment: “But Your Holiness has taken after a large advantage...”. No comment on this. And then this unexpected question in January 1999, the occasion was the great audience to those working in the Library and the Archives (in the meantime, March 1998, he had appointed me Archivist and Librarian of the Roman Church). “What would our Professors of the ‘Angelicum think if they saw us now together?” I answered: ” they would be very much surprised with me than with your Holiness”. His comment was almost a whisper: “I am not sure” Eight.. Last anecdote. Interval between the two Papal elections 1978. Was already in the Curia for one year. A cardinal calls me (7 October 1978 ). I omit his name. Asked me to suggest some ideas about possible candidates for the next election (the second; John Paul I had passed away after barely ‘one month):; gave some names form Italy : did not find much echo; then from abroad, two or three names I knew more or less; then my partner says, emphatically: You miss one name ; which? 1 asked : your schoolmate; some surprise on my side. Comment from the Cardinal; you are not awate of the prestige that man happens to have among us (cardinals). I left the place sure of the election. Which happened some days after We know now with what historic results for Church and world, Also for the Church in heaven:Nine and last. When he lay dying, I decided to go the Papal apartment, to see him for the last time T was not sure to be admitted: to my surprise I was told by the Swiss guard below, I was expected. Entered the place, the (then) young Secretary now Archbishop in Eastem Europe, took me to the room. Then the first secretary (today cardinal) Dziwisz took care of me. I knelt at his right, took his, hand, kissed it, pronounced my personal name Jorge. He tured his head towards me, could not speak, but I saw in his eyes he recognized me. Only said (in Spanish): “La vida por usted”. I had said the same when the audience after he had created me a cardinal. Then, Dziwizs put is hand on my shoulder. I knew T had to leave, Was terribly upset. Dziwisz said: not imminent perhaps, meaning the end, which made still more upset. Conscious as I was of his suffering You all know he died that evening the B”April after nine. Now we know for sure he is alive near God. This is what Beatification means. And here I shall quote the Gospel of Luke to (20, 35):to close this talk appropriately: Jesus says: “He (God) is God. not of the dead but of the living, for to him everyone is alive”: especially his Saints and Blessed. Thank you. Vatican, 27 February —27 April 2011 Jorge Cardinal Mejia