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ACCOUNTING THEORY

BFA302

Semester Two 2003

Lecturers KATHY GIBSON GARY ODONOVAN

Kathy M Gibson, BBus, MCom, GradDipAppSci, GradDipAppFin&Inv, FCPA, Senior Lecturer


ROOM: TELEPHONE: E-MAIL: CONSULTING HOURS: 416 (03) 6226 2758 Kathy.Gibson@utas.edu.au Any time by appointment

Gary ODonovan, BBus, Dip Ed, GradDipCDP, PhD, CPA Associate Professor
ROOM: TELEPHONE: E-MAIL: CONSULTING HOURS: 201 (03) 6226 2278 Gary.ODonovan@utas.edu.au Any time by appointment

Contents
Introduction to the Unit Unit Aims Unit Objectives Prerequisite Reading for the Unit Guide to Study Teaching Strategy Assessment Plagiarism Study Schedule Assignments Your Lecturers: Kathy Gibson Kathy has Bachelor of Business (with distinction) and Master of Commerce degrees, and Graduate Diplomas in both Applied Science (Environmental Management) and Applied Finance and Investment. She is a fellow of CPA Australia and an international associate of the Centre for Social and Environmental Accounting Research at the University of Glasgow, Scotland. She has also been President (Tasmania) of CPA Australia and Chair of the CPAs national Ethics and Corporate Governance Centre of Excellence. Her long practical experience in accounting has included six years as an investment analyst in stockbroking and merchant banking, in both London and Australia, and some eleven years in the hospitality industry as finance director and company secretary. She is now Deputy Head of the School of Accounting & Finance at the University of Tasmania and was Chair of the Degrees Board of Commerce from 1998-2000. Kathys work in applied research projects linking environmental issues with industrial and commercial activities, and in critical theory, has been widely published in Australia and overseas. Gary ODonovan Gary did his first degree in accounting at the Footscray Institute of Technology, while working full time for a chartered accounting firm in Melbourne. He completed postgraduate studies in Education and Commercial Data Processing. His PhD, from Victoria University, involved a detailed investigation of corporate motivations behind increases in environmental reporting. He holds the status of CPA with CPA Australia and is also a registered company auditor, a registration that he primarily uses for community group work and charitable purposes. He is currently the Head of the School of Accounting and Finance at the University of Tasmania. 3 3 4 4 5 6 6 8 8 9 10

He has presented numerous research papers in the area of social and environmental reporting at both international and national conferences and seminars and is widely published in refereed scholarly and professional journals. He also has long established professional accounting connections in his role as Chairman and Convenor of the Social and Environmental Accounting Discussion Group for the Victoria Division of CPA Australia and is currently a Divisional Councillor of CPA Australia, Tasmanian Division. He is a past editor of the News Journal of the Asia Pacific Centre for Environmental Accountability and continues to serve on their Board of Editors. He is also a member of the Editorial Advisory Panel of the Interdisciplinary Environmental Review, which is a refereed journal emanating from the Interdisciplinary Environmental Association located in Worcester, Massachusetts and the Asian Review of Accounting.

1.

Introduction to the Unit


BFA 302 Accounting Theory represents the capstone of your studies in financial accounting at the pass degree level. The unit examines financial accounting from a theoretical perspective and provides a framework whereby contemporary accounting issues and practice can be evaluated. It also provides skills in applying accounting theories to the practice of accounting in relation to advanced professional accounting issues. The unit is seen as an extension of the applied units you studied in the first two years of your degree. It also provides an excellent grounding for honours and postgraduate studies. This unit not only provides a theoretical framework within which accounting issues and practices can be examined, it also gives you the opportunity to develop high level analytical skills and the ability to authoritatively present arguments and opinions on a broad range of accounting issues. Knowledge of historical and contemporary issues also gives you an opportunity to understand the rationale for the existence of current accounting policies and practices, and the directions in which accounting policies may develop. It is important to understand that this unit covers a breadth of theories, philosophies and issues. You should expect that your seminar materials, readings and assignments will not necessarily cover the same areas. They are all to be regarded as different aspects of a whole learning process.

2.

Unit Aims
The aims of this unit flow from the expressed needs of prospective higher degree students and practising accountants at high levels in many organisations. Some broad aims are: to enable you apply alternative theoretical frameworks in examining accounting issues and practices, and arguing your position;

to use historical and contemporary issues and examples as a basis for understanding the rationale for the existence of current accounting policies and the directions in which these may develop in the future; to enable you to develop high level analytical skills and the ability to authoritatively present arguments for and against current and proposed accounting concepts, policies and practices.

3.

Unit objectives
The specific objectives of this unit include helping you to: develop your understanding of the role of theory development in explaining accounting behaviour; appreciate the principal existing accounting paradigms that explain the production and use of accounting information; appreciate issues relating to alternative disclosures of economic transactions and events; analyse the theoretical and practical issues involved in controversial accounting applications; understand and think critically about the accounting regulatory process; reinforce your understanding of the principles underlying the recognition and measurement of core accounting concepts and their shortcomings; comprehend a range of emerging issues in accounting theory; read widely on contemporary issues; develop your ability to research and communicate information on accounting issues; practise presenting, defending and debating accounting-related issues in group situations.

4.

Prerequisite
You must have passed BFA201 Financial Accounting.

5.

Reading for the Unit


ESSENTIAL TEXTS Godfrey, J, A Hodgson & S Holmes, Accounting Theory, Fifth Edition, John Wiley & Sons, Brisbane, 2003 BFA 302 Readings Collection Statements of Accounting Concepts These are contained in sets of Accounting Standards published by the Australian Accounting Research Foundation, Prentice Hall, or contained in the handbooks of CPA Australia and the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia. Additional journal articles may be made available during the semester. SUPPLEMENTARY REFERENCES You will benefit from reading as broadly as possible. Accounting theory concerns ideas, and the more literature you survey the more exposure you will gain to alternative approaches to accounting. References that might be helpful include: Belkaoui, A.R. Accounting Theory, Fourth Edition, Thomson, London, 2000 Bloom, R., & Elgers, P. Issues in Accounting Policy: A Reader, Dryden, USA, 1995 Bloom, R., & Elgers, P. Foundations of Accounting Theory & Policy, Dryden, USA, 1995 Cotesta, P.V et al, Writing for Accounting Students, Butterworths, Sydney, 1998 Deegan, C. Financial Accounting Theory, McGraw-Hill, Roseville, NSW, 2000 Puxty, A.G. The Social and Organisational Context of Management Accounting, International Thomson, London, Reprint 1998 Whittred, G, Zimmer, I., & Taylor, S. Financial Accounting Incentive Effects and Economic Consequences, Fifth Edition, Holt Rinehart and Winston, Sydney, 2000 OTHER READING You are expected to read beyond the textbooks, especially for your assignments, and if you seek a distinction grade you will need to keep abreast of new issues and developments. This can be done by reading widely, including the financial press, the journals of the professional accounting bodies, and, most importantly, the scholarly literature. In reading the scholarly literature, you should focus on the theory contained at the start and end of papers. Whilst the methodology is important, our main focus is on the theory developed through research and the conclusions drawn. The major scholarly journals that you may find both readable and useful include: Abacus 5

Accounting, Auditing and Accountability Journal Accounting Forum Accounting Organisations and Society Accounting Research Journal The British Accounting Review Critical Perspectives on Accounting This is a small sample. Many useful accounting journals are in the University Library, and are also available electronically.

6.

Guide to Study
If you are studying this unit you must already have developed skills and strategies that have helped you achieve success in previous accounting units. However, this unit requires more reading, more theorising (and abstract thinking), and good verbal and writing skills. The emphasis is on reading, understanding, discussing and writing, and not on technical procedures. There are helpful study hints in subsequent sections on Teaching Strategy and Assessment but, depending on your reading and writing skills, you should achieve success in this unit if you: keep up-to-date with the reading; consolidate your reading by making appropriate short notes and summaries; give yourself plenty of time to write your assignments; prepare for and actively participate in the seminar sessions; and take responsibility for your own learning.

If you fall behind with your reading and rush your written work you will find that you have too much to make up before the examination and will be under-prepared.

7.

Teaching Strategy
We have planned this unit to occupy, on average, 12 hours per week of your time for 13 weeks. The hours are allocated between: Seminar Independent study 3 hours 9 hours 12 hours

If you are not a fast reader you may have to spend longer on independent study as it is intended that most of your learning will be done through your reading, independent study, and written assignments. It is vitally important that your preparation work be done before you attend the weekly seminar. Otherwise, you will gain very little from seminar attendance, and will be unable to contribute to the development of group knowledge. 6

Encouraging you to study and learn independently is an important goal of university education. It is a feature of a reflective approach to learning in which you reflect on what it is you are learning and how you plan your learning strategy. This is a very full and demanding unit worthy of a final year university course. It is intended to introduce you to many new, and often complex, concepts, and to extend your knowledge of the philosophy of accounting. As it is also a final year unit, all aspects of your work are expected to be of a high standard, both in academic content and quality of presentation. Seminars provide an interactive forum for the development and sharing of ideas. Participation is an important facet of this unit, and below are some points which are useful to consider when discussing issues: are your points pertinent to the discussion? understanding of the class? Do they increase the

is there continuity in your contributions or do the comments tend to be disjointed and isolated? The best class contributions are those that reflect thorough preparation and good listening, interpretive and integrative skills; do your comments reflect a willingness to put forth new, challenging ideas or are they always agreeable and safe? are you able and willing to interact with others by asking questions, providing supportive comments or challenging constructively what has been said? are you willing to take a risk? You may be the one to initiate discussion on a previously unconsidered aspect of the accounting discipline that could have far-reaching consequences for accounting and its relevance in the future.

Do not be reluctant to ask questions or contribute ideas, even if only partly formed, as these can often form a basis for very constructive interaction. Remember your seminars will be as interesting and useful as you make them.

8.

Assessment
Method of Assessment (a) Continuous assessment Research Project Essay Seminar submissions Written examination Value Due dates

(b)

25% 20% 15% 60% 40% 100%

5.00 pm, 2 September 2003 To be agreed with lecturer To be agreed with lecturer During examination period

ASSIGNMENTS Your assignments are to be presented and submitted in accordance with the Guide for Students - Presentation and Submission of Assignments issued by the Faculty of Commerce and Law. Your attention is particularly drawn to the Universitys rules on plagiarism. Assignments containing any plagiarised information will gain a zero mark and will be subject to the disciplinary processes of the University. Assignments will be marked as quickly as possible after all have been submitted, and returned with comments and grades awarded. EXAMINATION The final examination will be a closed book examination, and will enable you to demonstrate breadth and depth of understanding across all the course material. All topics are examinable. It is the policy of the School of Accounting & Finance not to offer Supplementary examinations.

9. Plagiarism
Plagiarism is a form of cheating. It is taking and using someone elses thoughts, writings or inventions and representing them as your own; for example, using an authors words without putting them in quotation marks and citing the source, or using an authors ideas without proper acknowledgement and citation. It also includes copying another students work, or providing your own work for another student to copy. The intentional copying and submission of someone elses work as ones own, or assisting this to be done by a fellow student, is a serious offence tantamount to academic fraud. It is a University offence punishable by a range of penalties that may range from a fine or deduction/cancellation of marks and, in the most serious of cases, exclusion from a unit, a course or the University. When in doubt consult your lecturer 8

or tutor. Details of penalties that can be imposed are available in the Ordinance of Student Discipline or at www.utas.edu.au/plagiarism.

Study Schedule
Week Start Date 1 Jul 14 2 3 4 5 6 Jul 21 Jul 28 Aug 4 Aug 11 Aug 18 Topic Introduction to Accounting Theory. Normative, Positive & Critical Theories. Historical Development of Accounting. Accounting Theory Construction. Capital Markets Research. Positive Accounting Theory. Behavioural Aspects and UserUsefulness of Accounting. Normative Theory: Foundational Concepts and Measurement Issues Independent Study Normative Theory: A Conceptual Framework for Accounting Normative/Positive Theory: Standard-Setting in a Political Environment Globalisation: Theoretical Issues & Debates Independent Study Ethics and the Accounting Discipline Critical Theory Critical Theory: Truth & Fairness v Economic Propaganda MID SEMESTER BREAK Stakeholder, Political Economy and Legitimacy Theories Social & Environmental Accountability GHH 19 Gibson & ODonovan (2001) ODonovan (1999) GHH 19 Reading* GHH 1 GHH 2 & 3 GHH 9 & 10 Ball & Brown (1968) GHH 11 Chew (2002) GHH 6, 7 & 8 (Scan) Gibson & Goyen (1996) GHH 13

7 8 9 10 11

Aug 25 Sep 1 Sep 8 Sep 15 Sep 22 Sep 29

GHH 12 Collett, Godfrey & Hrasky (2001) Tba Collett (1995) Gibson (1996) Gibson (2000) Tba

12 13

Oct 6 Oct 13

*Key: GHH: Godfrey, Hodgson & Holmes Articles are in the Book of Readings NB: The readings are to be done before the seminars each week.

BFA 302 ACCOUNTING THEORY


ASSIGNMENTS The assignments for this Unit provide you with an opportunity to further develop your analytical and communication skills in four different media; an original research paper, an analytical academic paper, critique of extant literature, and development and answering of multiple choice questions. Academic research provides the underlying information upon which corporate reports, journal articles and stories, and other publications are based. The purpose of an academic paper is to report the results of original research or analysis that adds to the store of knowledge in society. It may take the form of analysis providing new insights into information already available (Assignment 2), it may replicate previous research projects to check the veracity of their findings, or it may be a description of an original research project undertaken (Assignment 1). Such research often raises questions or ideas that then become the subject matter of further research, and it forms the basis of many other publications such as corporate reports, media articles, stories, etc. Because of this, it is important that the information reported in an academic paper can be independently supported by further research, often done by other researchers. To enable this, any information that is taken from the work of others must be correctly referenced to enable the reader to refer back to the original source. Any new information that is discovered must be explained in a logically and syntactically correct manner that will allow other researchers to replicate the study and confirm the results. This is how knowledge advances, by checking the foundations of prior work and then building upon them. For these reasons, an academic paper must have conceptual integrity and must be fully and correctly referenced. Information on how to do this within the context of the accounting discipline is provided in the Guide for Students published by the Faculty of Commerce & Law. In marking both assignments 1 and 2, the assessor will: consider correct format, expression, grammar and spelling; have regard to correct referencing and bibliography; and check that the arguments and conclusions are logically formulated and complete. The multiple choice questions assignment. Once you graduate from university, much of the assessment with which you will be confronted in gaining professional qualifications and in continuing professional development, will be in the form of multiple choice questions. In addition to helping you identify the main ideas in your assigned readings for this Unit, the preparation of multiple choice questions will give you an idea of how such questions are designed and structured, and how their content might be chosen. This will better enable you to answer such questions in your future careers. The practice you gain in seminars in answering the questions will reinforce this ability. It is important that the questions you develop are designed to test understanding, and not just memory of names, dates, places, etc, and marks will be assigned on this basis.

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Critique of accounting literature It is important in reading any kind of information that we do so in an enquiring frame of mind. If we are to rely on the information presented, we must be satisfied that the arguments are logically derived and soundly supported. A well-written paper gives some assurance that the author has taken care to check their sources and present the information correctly. It is important, also, to be able to assess whether the conclusions are internally and/or externally valid, and what contribution they make to the accounting debate. It is also important to be able to distil the main arguments of the literature succinctly. Students who are assigned to critique readings will thus be developing additional skills in information assessment and use. LATE SUBMISSION: The penalty for late submission of assignments in this Unit is 10% of the available mark per day.

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BFA 302 ACCOUNTING THEORY


FIRST ASSIGNMENT DUE: WEIGHTING: LENGTH: 5.00 pm, 1 September 2003 25% of unit assessment 2 000 words, maximum

This assignment requires you to undertake and report, in the form of an academic paper, an original piece of research regarding the adequacy of information contained in company annual reports. Recent events such as the failure of large companies including HIH, Enron, and Ansett, and the prosecution of high-profile company directors, have led to public criticism of the disclosure of accounting information. Firms provide disclosure through financial reports, including the financial statements, footnotes, directors reports, and other regulatory submissions. Some accountants are of the view that the financial statements are too complex to help users make informed decisions, whilst others suggest that insufficient useful information is provided. Statement of Accounting Concepts, SAC 2 Objective of General Purpose Financial Reporting, outlines three user groups and four types of information relevant to users needs. The three user groups are resource providers, recipients of goods and services, and parties performing a review or oversight function. The four types of information relevant to users needs relate to performance, financial position, financial and investing, and compliance. The purpose of this assignment is to ascertain whether: Information contained in general purpose financial reports (Corporate Annual Reports) is sufficiently useful to meet the needs of a particular user group (shareholders); If the information is insufficient, - which parts of the report require more disclosure; - what information should be disclosed, and - why is the information needed? If the information is too complex, - which parts of the report require less disclosure; - what information should not be disclosed, and - why is the information not needed?

This assignment is designed to help you to put into practice your knowledge of accounting theory development and testing gained in week 2, to review user perspectives and behavioural issues discussed in week 4, and to reconsider the conceptual framework issues that you studied independently in week 6. 12

The structure of your paper should be as follows: an abstract; an introduction; a survey of the accounting literature on the adequacy, transparency and predictive ability of accounting information contained in annual reports; an assessment of the arguments that lead to the formation of an opinion whether or not information contained in annual reports is useful in aiding investors decisions and future predictions; depending on the opinion formed and argued in the previous section, the statement of a hypothesis, or hypotheses, that the information in annual reports is or is not useful to users, and/or that the information does or does not assist in their decision-making; a report of the results of a survey of shareholders, undertaken using the attached survey instrument, which is designed very broadly in order to test your hypotheses. Twenty survey responses from shareholders in any companies, are required to be submitted by each pair of students. Completed questionnaire forms are to be initialled by the respondent, and attached as an appendix to your assignment; an analysis of your findings; a statement as to whether or not your findings support or reject your hypothesis; your conclusions; a list of references. This assignment is to be completed by students working in pairs. There are two main reasons for this stipulation: security of the questioners during the survey process, and avoidance of questioner bias in the responses. Your respondents should be chosen from amongst family, friends, colleagues, club members, etc. You should not directly approach people who you have not met before. This may introduce a selection bias into your sample, but it is in the interests of your safety and that of your respondents.

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Questionnaire
Explain to the potential respondent that you are carrying out a survey as part of an assignment for your Commerce Degree at the University of Tasmania, and ask whether they are a direct shareholder in any company. If they are not, thank them, and explain that your task is to survey only company shareholders. If they are a shareholder, ask whether they are willing to answer some questions about their reactions to the information in annual reports. If they are willing to continue, the following questions should be asked in numerical sequence, and responses noted on the question sheet.

To provide context for the study, please ask your respondents for the following Demographic information: Postcode: Sex: M/F

Occupation: Age: (Circle) 18-34 35-54 55-64 65+

For how many years have you been a public company shareholder? How would you describe your highest level of accounting/financial knowledge? (Tick one only) Accounting/finance qualifications Accounting/financial work experience Little accounting/financial knowledge No knowledge of accounting or finance Other (please describe)

Questions 1. How many annual reports do you see in an average year? 2. Do you read any or any part of them? If no: ask why not and note the reason. Then thank the respondent for their time. No further questions. The reasons will be reported as part of your findings. If yes: proceed through the following questions.

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3. In general, would you say that the information provided in annual reports is useful to you?

4. What is your main use of the information in annual reports?

5. On a scale of 1 (not informative) to 5 (very informative), at what level do you find the information in annual reports sufficiently informative to assess: (Circle as appropriate)
Not Informative a) Potential investment decisions b) Corporate performance c) Good corporate citizenship d) Compliance with regulations Very Informative

-----------------------------------------------------------1 2 3 4 5 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5

6. On a scale of 1 (low) to 5 (high), at what level do the annual reports that you receive disclose useful information relating to the following aspects? (Circle as appropriate)
Low level of disclosure a) Financial Performance High level of disclosure

-------------------------------------------------------------1 2 3 4 5 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5

b) Financial Position c) Financing & Investing

d) Corporate Governance e) Social & Environmental Performance

7. Please rank the following sections of annual reports in their order of usefulness for predicting the future performance of the company (1 = most useful, 6 = least useful). Directors report Chairpersons review Financial statements Text Audit report Other 8. On a scale of 1 (not informative) to 5 (very informative), at what level do you find the information in annual reports sufficiently informative to enable you gain a good understanding of the following aspects of the company? (Circle as appropriate) 15

Not Informative a) b) c) d) e) Financial Performance Financial Position Financing & Investing Corporate Governance Social & Environmental Performance

Very Informative

-----------------------------------------------------------1 2 3 4 5 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5

9. In general, what additional information do you believe company annual reports should contain, and why?

10. In general, what information do you believe should be eliminated from annual reports, and why?

11. In your opinion, how could the report be made more useful to you for predicting future performance of the company?

12. Do you have any other comments to make about annual reports or accounting information in general?

I confirm that I was interviewed by two students, and was made aware that this survey is part of the assessment requirements for a Commerce Degree at the University of Tasmania. I understand that all responses are confidential, and that individual respondents will not be identified. Initials of respondent:

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BFA 302 ACCOUNTING THEORY


SECOND ASSIGNMENT DUE: WEIGHTING: LENGTH: Date to be agreed with lecturer by Week 2 of Semester 20% of unit assessment 2 000 words, approximately

Write an essay in correct academic form to discuss the following issues. Accounting information as a serviceable product and accountancy as a professional endeavour are undeniably at a cross roads. No matter from what angle corporate failure is observed, accountants and their accounting products are at centre stage. A commingling of creative and feral accounting practices within complex corporate structures means that financial outcomes are very difficult to decipher. Accountants have lost sight of professional ethical standards. Special Note Essays written for this assignment will be eligible for entry into CPA Australias Ethics Essay Competition. Marked assignments, with comments, will be returned as soon as possible to enable submission should you wish to do so. Information about the competition can be found on the website of CPA Australia, and the Schools noticeboard, and the closing date for submission is 31 October 2003. In the last two years, students of the University of Tasmania have gained a Second Place and Highly Commended Awards. Perhaps this year we will have the Winner?

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BFA 302 ACCOUNTING THEORY


THIRD ASSIGNMENT DUE: Part A: 5.00 pm, on the Friday before the allocated seminar; Part B: During assigned seminars 15% of unit assessment

WEIGHTING:

Students will be required to complete either assignment 3(1) or assignment 3(2). Your assignation will be agreed with your lecturer in the first week of semester. Assignment 3(1) Both of the following parts A and B are compulsory. Part A: Prior to seminars, pairs of students will be assigned to prepare 10 multiple choice questions, based upon the readings for their allocated seminar. Each question should have four answer choices, listed a d, and solutions must be provided that explain the reasons for the correct and incorrect answers. The questions must be in a format suitable for presentation on overhead film so that they can be clearly read by other seminar participants. The questions are to be delivered to the lecturer by 5.00 pm on the Friday preceding the date of the allotted seminar. They may be in hard copy, or preferably sent by e-mail as a Word attachment. All e-mail submissions will be acknowledged by the lecturer when they are received. The onus is upon the students to ensure that an acknowledgment is obtained. A maximum of five (5) marks will be awarded for the questions prepared for Part A, taking into account their relevance to the main points of the readings from which they are drawn and their suitability for testing the knowledge of other students in regard to the readings. It is important that they aim to test understanding, rather than simple memorising of information. Part B: A selection of these questions will be administered at each seminar, to be answered by every student in attendance, and answers will then be provided. All students are required to submit answer sheets on four (4) occasions of their choice, at the end of the relevant seminar. Answer sheets may not be submitted after the end of the seminar, and students may not submit answers to the questions in the weeks in which they have prepared them. The total achievable mark for Part B of the assessment is ten (10). Allocations will be made in Week 1 and the assessment will begin in Week 4. A total of 15 marks is achievable for parts A and B of this assignment. P.T.O

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Assignment 3(2) Students completing this assignment are required to complete Part B of Assignment 3(1), which is worth ten (10) marks. For the additional five (5) marks, pairs of students are to critique the readings for the week as assigned, and make a presentation to their peers in the appropriate class lasting no longer than 10 minutes. A brief handout in support of their presentation will be highly regarded, and they should be prepared to answer questions from their colleagues. Please refer to comments on page 11 of this unit outline.

For all assignments that are required to be completed in pairs, it is your responsibility to find another student to work with. You should reach agreement with your partner/s for all assignments by the end of Week 2. If you do not have a partner by Week 3, post a message on WebCT to ensure that all pairs are in place by the end of Week 3 at the latest. In order to undertake the survey for your first assignment in particular, you will need to allow yourselves plenty of lead time.

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