The Joiner Report- Interview With Jim Penniston on 1/13/2011

A. Joiner- Well, I think the first thing we need to clarify here Jim is, people have been asking about
the timeline. They're not sure when, after you received the code on the 26th...did you write it down in your notebook at home. Do you have any idea?

J. Penniston- Yeah, I wrote it down on the 27th the following day. A. Joiner- Alright, and was that before your superiors gave you the sodium pentathol to interview
you?

J. Penniston- No, the uh sodium pentathol. Okay. Here's the timeline. After uh..the 26th..um, we were
um.. the morning of the 26th, ,that's when we went and uh.. I obtained the uh..plaster of paris impressions. Um..then I went home. The following day I did uh..write these down for more of a relief than anything else, the codes. And then on the 28th which was a Monday uh.. I was told to report to uh..the AFOSI building, which I did do, and there I just wrote a formal statement, I wrote a four page statement saying exactly what happened out there. Um..and they said that the whole incident would go away that morning if I told them everything, which I did. And um.. then after that John and I uh..were also instructed to go up to Colonel Halt's office at the base commander's office. We met Colonel Halt up there, and um.. then uh.. you know..we got debriefed..we uh..wrote some statements up there, met with the wing commander, base commander, um.. Then let me just jump ahead to answer the question. A month later around February 5th ,6th, 7th..something like that, that was the other visit to the OSI building where sodium pentathol was actually given to me.

A. Joiner- Okay, so it was a month later where you did the interview under the influence of sodium
pentathol. But still.. if you wrote this down, your binary code, you wrote it down on the 27th at home...that was before your first interview at the AFOSI building?

J. Penniston- That's correct...and before I was interviewed by the base commander, or Colonel Halt,
or..yeah

A. Joiner- And you have described it as a mental picture in your mind, isn't that right? J. Penniston- That's correct. A. Joiner- And it was something that was constantly coming back to you, and kinda just like you
couldn't get rid of it, and so you decided to write it down?

J. Penniston- Yeah..it's uh.. it's really a very weird situation. Matter of fact I was actually concerned
about myself. Uh..like on the morning of the 26th I had done that stuff out there with the plaster of paris. I come back, I slept maybe four or five hours, got back up. I got these symbols running around in my head, I mean it just seems insane, uh..especially after the experience that we had the night before. Um.. I couldn't even um..get em out of my mind, it was terrible. And so uh..I felt driven..I felt driven to write

them down and I thought for some reason it might help. And actually um..I wasn't sure about my stability at the time either. And uh..so I did start writing them down. I grabbed the uh..my notebook because uh..I had, was previously looking at the actual glyphs and stuff. And that's when I decided to go ahead and write them down so I just used the notebook. And uh..I just started uh..recording them and uh..continued to do that and I don't know I cant remember how many pages... [At this point the phone connection is lost for a moment, and then the interview resumes...]

A. Joiner- Okay, so do you want to continue with your thought there? J. Penniston- Well I was just chatting away Angelia. I think I left off at the part about once I had the
codes written down then..and then I just felt relieved uh..that it went away. But then you have to look at my state of mind at the time. I was thinking my God what is wrong with me? Why would I have to write something like that down? And then I was wondering... Oh y'know what I don't know if its just gibberish, I don't know if was just something from the aftershock of what had happened the night before. Was I having some kind of post traumatic stress from it? Y'know I was pretty concerned about that. But it seemed to help, so once they were written down the visual went away. So it seemed okay.

A. Joiner- Did the AFOSI have access to your notebook at any time? J. Penniston- No, uh..matter of fact they never even asked for it they didn't know I had one. Uh..but
its pretty standard uh..security procedures for the security force uh..supervisors to carry uh..notebooks for our..recording our shift activities uh..if we have a situation that happens uh..aircraft crash something like that uh..in-flight emergencies, whatever it may be. We record y'know the particular times down when stuff happened and that. So when we go to do further reports uh..we can do accurate 1569's which is the Air Force incident report y'know we could write em out in more detail. I mean its just normal procedure that we just did that, I carried my notebook everywhere. But when I was at OSI there was no need to uh..pull my notebook out, it just happened uh..a couple of days before. I mean, it was very fresh, I mean..

A. Joiner- Right, I understand that. You kept this information about the telepathic download of the
binary code to yourself until October 2010 when Linda was interviewing you for the History Channel episode, is that right?

J. Penniston- No, that's not true. Uh..the whole code system uh..came out in uh..a September 1994
uh..hypnosis. So that was described there.

A. Joiner- But it wasn't made public? J. Penniston- No.. No never made public. I mean I talked about uh..receiving codes and that before
but no one's ever asked about it.

A. Joiner- Alright, and that was... J. Penniston- Yeah.. yeah the first time when we were out filming for the Ancient Alien series in
October and uh..and then y'know of course they wanted to see the notebook and see the glyphs and stuff in it and I was showing the uh..film crew and stuff that. And whats all this other stuff? I said well those are the binary code that was given to me. And then that seemed to stop the whole shoot. And

uh..they're going you're kidding me, and I'm like no, I said. Well how long have you had that? I said well..from the time of the incident.

A. Joiner- Well I can understand, in a way.. I understand why for sure, not in a way. Why you would
wait until after your retirement in 1993 to do the hypnosis. I mean you had a job to do and family and all that, but I'm surprised that Linda in 1994, you said nobody ever asked you about the binary code, that she wouldn't have jumped all over that

J. Penniston- Linda and I did a project, lets see uh.. I believe it was 1996. And that project she did
uh..it was uh..Glimpses of Alternate Realities it was another book that she did. In there is actually the transcript of my hypnosis, that portion describing time travel and uh..also the binary codes that were received. So they've been on record in a book form since '96.

A. Joiner- And Linda never approached anybody since 1994 to have it decoded until this interview in
October for Ancient Aliens, right?

J. Penniston- That's correct. A. Joiner- That really surprises me. J. Penniston- Well, I don't know..I don't know what's in her mind uh.. When she told uh..what had
happened at the shoot is that they said well we should get those ..film people were saying we should get those uh..decoded and that Prometheus, and I said uh.. that's the film company. I said yeah we could but it's probably just gibberish y'know. And they said well lets find out. And so I ran it to uh..with the uh..film company and then I gave a second one for independent review with Linda, that was my suggestion. And she ran it through those two other doctors. And of course there's some discrepancy besides Linda's site and my uh..what the Prometheus did, but uh..its minor, and uh so yeah I don't have no idea why she didn't pursue it earlier. She knew about it. She knew about it for 15, 16 years beforehand.

A. Joiner- Alright. Now did you ever tell John about it, or did he just recently learn about it? J. Penniston- John knew about it. Uh..somewhat..I mean he never seen the actual coding of it, no..at
the time. Here's the odd thing with John and I, uh.. John and I since1980 uh..with the exception of the last eight months, uh..never met, talked , or anything about the incident. We were uh..purposefully kept apart uh..by uh..over the years. I was told by uh..actually Colonel Halt uh.. that John was unable to get a hold of him, uh.. he had dropped off the face of the planet, and uh..there was just no way to find John for any of the film work we were going to do or anything like that. We did uh..end up uh..doing a project in uh..1996 together I think it was, over in England and John was there but we were kept apart. I was with Colonel Halt all the time, I didn't get to spend any time with John. Uh and uh..so that was the last time I seen him. Until I got a phone call oh approximately about 12 months ago and it was John. Now he found me and he says uh..Jim, and I says John, I said oh how've you been, I've been trying to get a hold of you. And uh..John says you know what we need to do? And I said yeah, go back to Rendlesham, and he goes right. So that's how it started 10 months ago, 12 months ago.

A. Joiner- Now you said you two were purposefully kept apart. J. Penniston- Correct.

A. Joiner- By Colonel Halt? J. Penniston- He's part of it, but yes. A. Joiner- Who else? J. Penniston- Well during the hypnosis session um..one of the things that is uh ..with the false
memories that were impressioned that were given. One of the things is that they told me during hypnosis and what came out during hypnosis is that um..whatever happens John and I can't get back together again because we'll figure it out. That came out in the hypnosis in the '94 session. So believing that, I think that's exactly what happened because when we had the return to Rendlesham guess what we did? We figured it out. So uh..

A. Joiner- What did you figure out? J. Penniston- We figured out uh..the exact landing site, for example, which was distorted before. I
mean 30 years of people running around to the wrong areas and the Forestry Department putting up signs to places that they thought was where it was at. So we found the exact landing location...I had total recall there. John and I had uh..some other experiences together that we are keeping private, and uh.. Also um..it answered many questions and it gave us more direction what we had to do. And it also told us that Rendlesham the return was the beginning. And uh..there's much more that's got to happen uh.. from..

A. Joiner- You learned that Rendlesham was the beginning. Did I understand you correctly? J. Penniston- That's correct. A. Joiner- The beginning of what? J. Penniston- The beginning of what John and I need to do over the course of history here. We
are..we're not done with this. We have other codes, we have other uh..things that we have to get deciphered. We're sure we have more information. We're a little hesitant right now about the full release because of the way stuff was handled with the six pages that we just arbitrarily grabbed. I grabbed six pages out, that's what we used.

A. Joiner- Yeah I was wondering, why didn't you give them all of it at one time? Why would you just
pick six pages? And are those six pages the first six pages? Are they in sequence?

J. Penniston- Yeah, in sequence, the first six pages. That's uh..And I just grabbed them because
uh..First of all I just thought they were gibberish. I didn't think they were gonna say anything, I mean who in the world can write down 1's and 0's and 0's and 1's and do 14 pages of it and they mean anything. I mean that's impossible. So, I was pretty sure it was all gibberish.

A. Joiner- But you knew it was code? J. Penniston- I knew it was code because uh..that's the impression that was left with me at the
uh..contact site.

A. Joiner- And the other impression that you got when you touched the glyphs was that the craft was
in some sort of repair mode, right?

J. Penniston- No. It uh.. not..No, it was.. I had an impression it wasn't in the exact location it was
supposed to be.

A. Joiner- Okay. J. Penniston- Which is different than repair mode. I mean it was..it's contact was done on purpose and
by and with John and I, I mean it's evident for that, uh..yeah.. But it wasn't supposed to be exactly right there which uh..some of the coding is now showing the exact location.

A. Joiner- Where was it supposed to be, do you think? J. Penniston- Hy Brasil. A. Joiner- Hy Brasil? You think it was? J. Penniston- I know it was. A. Joiner- Now, I looked at Linda's site and the longitude latitude coordinates in the code that you put
down, there isn't a code that depicts where the decimal point should go. And she made a little chart in there that without knowing where the decimal point goes, it could be in one of like 24 locations.

J. Penniston- Yeah, probably. A. Joiner- And you had earlier said that you felt that Woodbridge was the correct location, and that
Ancient Aliens had it wrong. So now you've changed your mind?

J. Penniston- No, I actually felt uh..that maybe it wasn't a good idea that Ancient Aliens uh..that site
became known and uh.. I talked it over with John, and uh.. we said well since it is correct we might as well not try to deny it and uh..let the information lay like it is. Ancient Aliens is correct.

A. Joiner- Why would you deny it anyway? J. Penniston- Because we started uh..doubting things to ourselves. Why was it the contact was only
given to us, the information? It wasn't broadcast on national world radio or anything like that, so we figured well is this information releasable? Did they want it that way? Um.. and so this is going through our minds, and I actually thought it would be harmful if they actually uh..knew the location of Hy Brasil uh..and uh..

A. Joiner- If who actually knew the location? The government? J. Penniston- The world. Everybody. Anybody. Its not really, it wasn't ..y'know it wasn't given to
everybody in the world was it? It was given to.. me.

A. Joiner- Well, and since you brought this up, I do have a question from someone you know I think,
Ronnie Dugdale who attended the reunion event,and he says he's a friend of yours.

J. Penniston- He sure is. A. Joiner- He read your post today on Facebook and you announced that you realize the importance
of the binary code there, and the rest of a dozen or so pages are being deciphered now. I assume you gave those to Linda, the rest of them?

J. Penniston- No. A. Joiner- Who did you give them to? J. Penniston- I'm not going to release that. A. Joiner- Why? J. Penniston- Because of security. A. Joiner- Okay. So you didn't just give them just copies? J. Penniston- The information is being looked at by experts. A. Joiner- Alright. J. Penniston- What I will do, for skeptics..I'll take the six pages that are now everywhere in the
world, that have been published. Those six pages I'll actually do authentication on the notebook that can tell that..For some reason I guess people doubt it... I don't care why. I don't care about that. But to satisfy a few people I guess I will go this step, go get the page uh..dated and uh..the ink dated for the uh..year it was written. But that's as far as I'm gonna go with it, uh..

A. Joiner- Yeah I knew there were some naysayers, y'know saying that should be tested. It could have
been added later for this reunion. And I wondered how you would respond to that.

J. Penniston- Well, that's what I'll do y'know because lets face it Angelia, this is how it's gonna work.
I go ahead and get it authenticated by experts that this is 1980 document, the ink is from 1980, and now they'll find something else they wanna use uh..to debunk it. Y'know there's always something else.

A. Joiner- There is. J. Penniston- Uh.. it's just like when we got to Woodbridge, that we put that lighthouse thing, that
ridiculous thing about a lighthouse to bed. Someone made a career off that by the way, a skeptic. And uh..so we put that to bed so what does the BBC put out? They have an interview over there and now they said it's an Apollo spacecraft, and a helicopter. Okay, that one's even more ridiculous, I mean I don't know why they're trying to uh.. I mean the evidence is clear..I mean..

A. Joiner- You would have heard a helicopter.

J. Penniston- You think? You think uh..160 Air Force Security Force members would know what
helicopter sounded like?

A. Joiner- Uh huh, I agree. J. Penniston- Especially when, yeah especially when they're stationed there? A. Joiner- But anyway, in your Facebook post today, and I quote These codes are truly unique and
were given by travelers through time. They tell us of a probe which was sent to Planet Earth on December 26th 1980, it's mission to record the past and to document all that was done. Further to instruct us on the events which will occur. Now Ronnie said in a previous correspondence with you , you told him that the binary code was a message sent for a few. For a few intended, and not for all of humanity and this was the reason you felt at the time you could not share it's contents, so...

J. Penniston- Yes, yes.. Jonathan, right? A. Joiner- So Ronnie asks...Why, if the message is not meant for all, would you bother to say
anything about that part of the message? And how could you make this determination if you didn't know what the code was saying, and the last pages are just now being deciphered? Did you receive some other telepathic message that suggested to you not to share it?

J. Penniston- I knew what those six pages said before they were deciphered, yes.. A. Joiner- You did? J. Penniston- Yes. A. Joiner- Then my question for you would be.. If it was intended to land at Hy Brasil, which is out in
the sea. And it's some mythical undersea island, sort of like a lost Atlantis is my understanding... Why did you get the code? It's in the wrong spot. Who would have gotten it under the water? What's going on with that?

J. Penniston- Well, obviously I can't walk on water..So uh..they got me at the.. I guess the nearest
uh..vortex location, which is a high E.M. that area so I think that's why they were attracted to that area.

A. Joiner- So you knew that the first six pages.. You knew what the first six pages said and you've
known that for 30 years?

J. Penniston- I knew that it was a probe. I knew that these were us, they were time travelers. I knew
that for 30 years, yes. Why wouldn't I come out and release that? Alright let me run this by you Angelia. Here's the story... Uh..the second day after the incident, I go to my living room. I have to write down 1's and 0's. And these 1's and 0's tell about a future, about a uh..time travelers and a probe.. and things like that. And I write all this down in my living room. Uh..that would have been a career-ender, period. They would have relieved me of duty. They would've pulled my PRP. I would've never carried a gun or worked around a nuke, nothing again. That was the end of the career. The other thing that's added to this is that when we went to Colonel Halt's office, at that point in time the whole situation became top secret, so we couldn't discuss it. I was in the Air Force until 1993 which meant it was still

top secret and they still kept track of us during that time frame um.. to make sure that we weren't talking. And then in 1993 when I got ready to retire, I'm at the CVPO, the personnel center. And they give me a big list of stuff that says okay this stuff is the classified stuff that you've seen. Uh..you cannot speak about nuclear weapons, their design, the delivery systems, how long does it take for an ICBM to destroy it's target, blah blah blah, the contingency plans, they're all listed. And I'm looking all the way through this and I said hmm, well Rendlesham's not in here. And they go Rendlesham? Well, okay we'll shoot a message off to the Pentagon about that, see if that's still classified. They shoot it off the following day, I go into CVPO, and they got a message back from the Pentagon that says, and it's a very odd message, it says that nothing at Rendlesham happened so therefore nothing is classified. Their response from the Air Force would have been very simple to take care of it, is that Rendlesham Forest is still classified, period. And I would never be able to talk about it, that's all they had to do . But instead of saying that nothing classified happened there, which is bizarre by itself, um..and then to say therefore nothing is classified, that meant I have a written document that says that I can talk about it, it's not classified.

A. Joiner- Okay. So earlier you said that you felt that the contents of the code would all be gibberish. J. Penniston- Right. A. Joiner- But you knew parts of it weren't. J. Penniston- Correct.... What I felt it said and if it had actually said something it might be two
different things. I mean I..I mean there's just no way, I don't know nothing about computers. I barely got through uh..algebra,. And so the chances of me writing any type of electronic information down or language would probably be uh..the same as me probably uh..y'know one in a trillion, one in a hundred trillion chance. I don't know, it's impossible.

[PROGRAM RESUMES AFTER SHORT BREAK]

A. Joiner- Now, we were just talking about if you had released the binary code at the time it would
have been a career killer for you. And you were also told not to talk about it, it was a top secret event, isn't that right?

J. Penniston- That's correct. A. Joiner- And then you retired in '93 and you went under hypnosis in '94, and more information
came out about the binary code at that time, correct?

J. Penniston- That's correct. A. Joiner- But apparently no one, not even Linda Howe, was really interested in it at the time. And so
what do you think the History Channel got piped up about that all of a sudden they say yeah, we want to know what this is?

J. Penniston- Well they..I had the uh..codes uh..in the book there. The film crew seen it, the producer
seen it, and he went that's significant..that needs to be checked out.

A. Joiner- So they sent it to their own experts to evaluate and then Linda sent it to her experts to
evaluate?

J. Penniston- No, I... No, I sent it to Linda. I says find two experts that we can trust that will not
publish it all over the internet. And she says I know two of them, so..

A. Joiner- And then later she released it on Earthfiles.com, her site? J. Penniston- Well those six pages, uh..the reason that she released them is because uh..the History
Channel had those six pages were released. And then uh..y'know so that's now public domain. And the other thing is that we had planned on using those codes uh..in the uh.. our presentation that we do with John and myself, and Linda. And we're gonna be doing it in the uh..the Pheonix area for the uh..International 2011 UFO event. And so we're gonna, that was the idea, that we were actually gonna release that information, probably uh..at the International UFO conference. But the History Channel started..they changed their plans, deviated off what show they were doing. And they ran that seven minute segment on their final show uh..on the 30th uh..when we were flying back to the States.

A. Joiner- Had you asked the History Channel not to do that, and they did it anyway? J. Penniston- Uh..the History Channel and I agreed to do that, it was... Of course y'know there was no
money involved, I mean it was a question of just releasing it. No, that was part of what I agreed to with the Prometheus Entertainment. Why would you say otherwise? I don't understand..

A. Joiner- Because you said you weren't going to release it until UFO Congress in February when you
three will be speaking there.

J. Penniston- Right, but you understand how it works with uh..documentary companies, picture
companies. They're constantly.. things change from today to tomorrow. And we discuss things and we have different conversations, and we uh..progress to different levels at different times on where we're gonna, what we're gonna do.

A. Joiner- Okay. Fair enough. J. Penniston- And so that's exactly how it works, it's just normal process of uh..talking it out. And
uh.. then we decided...I decided that y'know, well we might as well do the release uh..publicly uh..at the event on the 28th at Woodbridge England, and let the people that have the most interest in it, the people that have been following it the closest know about it first. And then on the 30th then it would be for uh..national uh..consumption through the uh..Ancient Alien series.

A. Joiner- Alright, so these last pages... What are there, about six more pages you think? J. Penniston- Um.. about uh..eight, maybe nine. Um..y'know we're gonna look at them first, y'know
I'm not teasing anybody with it. Im gonna see..

A. Joiner- Well what I was gonna ask.. Will those be released at UFO Congress in February? J. Penniston- I am.. I am thinking about releasing them, yes. Um..I don't know about the Congress or

not, uh.. I'm thinking about releasing them and uh..I'm, it's really right now between John and I to discuss a little bit farther on this. Uh..we don't want to uh..jeopardize anything with it and um..and I got a feeling we will release those final pages. But uh..y'know there's just..just to put a clamp on the rumours, there's no advantage for John and I on releasing this stuff. There's no monetary gain, there's nothing like that happening. I mean this is uh..information that we will share, and that's just it, there's just nothing else there.

A. Joiner- Okay. So it's gonna be shared eventually? J. Penniston- I think so. I think we'll end up doing that. Um..y'know and then y'know let the people
do what they want with it. If they were really smart they'd probably go ahead and read it, and uh.. take it for what it is. It's a message that's given to us uh..from a first contact situation and I think they ought to use it like that, rather than uh..try to come up with weird theories and motivations and stuff like that out of it. Because there's nothing for us to gain off it. John and I..

A. Joiner- Well you know, there are several groups on the internet that have been looking at the code
and trying to decipher it for themselves. I mean it is the internet buzz, everybody's working on it. And I have a board at Open Minds forum and there's some good people there working on it. And they had some questions that maybe you could clear up to help them make it a little more accurate. One of those questions is from Lee, and he asks..Do you feel the length of characters per line and per page is significant? And do you feel the codes should be interpreted line by line, page by page, or as a whole sequence?

J. Penniston- I have no idea. I know nothing about binary code. I know nothing about the structure,
I'm a security uh..Air Force security policeman. I mean ask me about terrorists and tactical deployments and I could tell you. I don't know nothing about uh..binary code.

A. Joiner- Well it looks like from what I've read, and I don't know anything about it either, that its a
combination of the 7 bit and 8 bit ASCII code, which is throwing things off. So you said yourself it would be incredibly hard, this would be a tedious task..just to write it down from this picture in your mind or from memory you might say. So do you feel that you could accurately write down the code without error?

J. Penniston- I can write the code down as I see them, I mean..as I recalled it from the pictures, yes. I
mean..what it means exactly and the variations, I y'know..that's beyond my uh..

A. Joiner- So you feel that you've written it down accurately? J . Penniston- Absolutely. A. Joiner- Alright. On page two, and I don't know if you have it in front of you. Where the
coordinates are, there's a character..it looks like a zero with a one at it's center. They're wondering if you can clarify the meaning of that, if that's how it was intended?

J. Penniston- Angelia. A. Joiner- Yes?

.J. Penniston- ..about 1's and 0's...I don't know what they, I don't know what they mean deciphered or not. These are what the experts are saying that it says. I have no idea that what this cipher looks like. I mean I don't know how to do that, it's beyond my capability.

A. Joiner- Alright. Well they were wondering if you just got the zero and one close together when you
were writing it down and they're supposed to be separate or whatever..

J. Penniston- I mean they're more than welcome to look at the uh..actual page on uh..Earthfiles, they
can do that.

A. Joiner- Oh they have, they've looked at it. They just can't determine what was meant there. But I
understand, I wouldn't be able to decipher it either. It's kinda for those mathematician type people.

J. Penniston- Mm hmm..I mean I'm in a poor position here, I mean I just don't know anything about
it. I mean I'm just a person that copied things down that were flashing in their mind. I mean that's pretty much it. I don't know, I don't know anything more than that.

A. Joiner- Another question is...and they're trying to figure out I know, 7 bit or 8 bit code. They're
trying to figure out was one or the other supposed to be used. They would like to know if you know, or can you find out the software and the computer system that was used in 1980 on the base?

J. Penniston- Well we used uh..Lanier word processing machines. I don't know what that uh..would
have to do with it. Those are word processors.

A. Joiner- Okay. J. Penniston- Okay, I never seen a computer while I was stationed at the base outside of word
processors.

A. Joiner- Okay, so..Well you just said that you're not a computer guru and neither am I, so I
understand that. I wouldn't remember 30 years ago what somebody was doing and all the things going on with computers.

J. Penniston- I know this much, I know when I was at Offutt Air Force Base in '73, we had a building
that was four stories high and uh..measured uh..half a football field and they had one computer in there. That's how big they were at the time, I know that. I know they had tubes y'know. I mean I don't know much about it, I know that it required security and we had to guard it. I mean I don't know much about computers.

A. Joiner- Well we've come a long way since then. J. Penniston- Mmm hmm. A. Joiner- Alright. Now you've said that this was given to you by travelers through time. Can you
comment more on that?

J. Penniston- No.

A. Joiner- Mmm.. Can you tell us if they were from the future or from the past? J. Penniston- No. I'm not gonna comment on it. A. Joiner- Why? J. Penniston- Uh..I'm working out things myself on this. Um..I uh..I know this much. Anytime I'm in
a public forum whether I'm on a radio show or whether I'm doing a documentary, it's forever, it's history once I say it. And what I wanna do is I wanna look at it and before I make a comment on it I wanna be sure I'm a hundred percent in my own mind that's what I'm trying to say. So...

A. Joiner- I read in one of the accounts of your hypnosis in '94 that you said they're travelers through
time...they are us. Is that correct?

J. Penniston- That was under hypnosis, yes. A. Joiner- Alright. So, it would be humans, either from the future or from the past, one or the other. J. Penniston- Based on that hypnosis? A. Joiner- Yes. J. Penniston- That's what it's saying, yes. A. Joiner- Okay. So that would mean we're not really dealing with aliens here? J. Penniston- That's what it means. A. Joiner- So you walked around this craft for 45 minutes, and in that time you say you lost John.
Now he remembers it differently, so can you comment on that?

J. Penniston- Well our hypnosis, my session and the one he did I guess uh.. independently in '87,
they're uh..almost identical, under hypnosis.

A. Joiner- Okay, so it's just in his conscious mind he didn't recall? J. Penniston- John has memory loss in his consciously on the uh..on some parts of it, and so do I on
some parts of it. But together we sussed out some of the information, yes.

A. Joiner- So the hypnosis accounts by the both of you are the same? J. Penniston- Pretty much. Pretty much the same, yes. I mean we might use different terms or stuff
like that but uh..it's pretty much the same, yeah.

A. Joiner- Okay. Is there anything outstanding between you that you don't agree on or that you
remember differently?

J. Penniston- Oh quite a few things. One of them was uh.. I was adamant about too, that Ed
Cabansag, our third member, was left back for a radio relay. And uh..then when I.. and it's always been that way for 30 years I've said the same thing. And John's disagreed with that, and uh..he says no he was with us. And so when we went out and recreated the lo.., uh..the y'know. uh..went out for the situation with the uh..film company, I did have total recall and there I did remember Cabansag with us y'know and his position on my team where he was at, where John was at, I mean I had total recall then I was.. So John was actually right about that. And uh.. and uh..I didn't know uh..otherwise until the uh..y'know the 26th of December of uh..of uh..2010 that that was the case. I mean there's other things that come up too that uh..like the location. And some of this is because of false memory implanted by the NSA or whoever it was at OSI. Uh..I thought the location was uh..some uh..700 yards different from where it was. And then on the uh..return trip to Rendlesham John and I worked it out, investigated it like two security policeman would, and we came up exactly where the location was. So that was part of a false memory that was implanted for whatever reason, uh..other than all I can think of is to aid in a cover-up situation, not knowing the exact location. But it was turned out that John was right on that location exactly and I was wrong. But yeah, there's some discrepancies like that, but uh..we did uh..cover most of those and it was very easy with total recall. Of course the other advantage we had, it was the first time in 30 years the forest looked exactly like it did in 1980. I mean the trees regrew, they were the same height. So that was all an advantage for us too on the return trip.

A. Joiner- Oh yeah, I can see where it would be. Because it would look totally different in the
Summer as opposed to Winter.

J. Penniston- Yeah, because a couple of years after the incident, a few years after, they just cut every
tree down. I mean y'know it took them almost 30 years for them to get to the same height. Even when we were at the East Gate, doing a tour for the East Gate, with uh..giving a walk-through with the participants that came for the event. I said well you gotta imagine how it looked back in 1980. I says, we have pine trees running all the way down this road, I said but there was a hundred foot clear zone from the fence line at the base perimeter. And another hundred feet that ran on the other side of that road, I said that was for security. And we wouldn't allow anything to grow up next to it. But it shows a whole different viewpoint by having trees there, its something you have to try to adjust to.

A. Joiner- Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Colonel Halt wasn't at the reunion, is that right? J. Penniston- No, that's correct. He was skiing. A. Joiner- What? J. Penniston- He was skiing, he was on a planned ski trip. A. Joiner- Was he invited? J. Penniston- Sure. A. Joiner- And he was invited even though you feel that he was part of the cover-up keeping you and
John apart all these years?

J. Penniston- Yes, we all follow orders, and that's what, I'm sure that was what Halt was doing.

A. Joiner- So you feel that he did not attend because he was ordered not to? J. Penniston- No, I said he was attending a private function skiing, in I believe West Virginia or
someplace.

A. Joiner- Do you feel he was ordered to be part of the cover-up? J. Penniston- I'm..I'm saying he was ordered to do certain things, uh..by the investigating agency,
which was probably OSI or Wing Intel. And he was obligated to follow those orders. So how can you hold that against a person for following orders? They do it in the name of national security.

A. Joiner- When did you first start realizing this, that he was part of the cover-up and that he might be
keeping you apart purposely?

J. Penniston- Actually uh..1995.. 1996. A. Joiner- And what led you to this conclusion? J. Penniston- Because of the information stream and what was controlled and what was released. A. Joiner- Okay, can you expand on that? J. Penniston- We were also, we were also..I mean I was always in constant contact with Halt. This is
a very strange situation, here I am enlisted uh..and he's a uh..O-6 Colonel, full Colonel. um.. I mean during the time at Bentwaters from '80 to uh..'84 I had at least 14 meetings with him on the Rendlesham incident at his office. I had a couple with OSI. Left the base, uh..Colonel Halt was in constant contact with me through my next assignment. Uh..another assignment and after that constant phone calls heard from him. And then in um.., he received orders from ? , Belgium he was gonna be base commander there. Uh..we were in contact again, I was stationed in Bitburg, Germany. Um..so we've always constantly kept in contact, uh..he is always gauging whats going on, is anybody contacting you? Has anybody asked you any questions about Rendlesham? I mean there's a whole series of things he asked me during the course of my military career and why he was <unintelligible>. So yeah, I mean was I monitored? Yes, I was monitored in many ways. So uh..y'know, but the most evident one was uh..I went from flight status uh..in 1981 January. A month later I became NCOIC of plans and programs. We wrote all the security police uh..contingency plans, all the uh..forward operating locations, the top secret plans, our war plans, uh..base defense plans. I wrote all those. And I wasn't qualified for the job, I mean they reactivated my top secret clearance, reactivated my cosmic atomal clearance with NATO, and they gave me two guys that worked for me and then trained me for six months for that NCOIC position. That is so I could be monitored by our squadron commander Major Ziegler and also by certain elements of the command element. So it started there, the monitoring.

A. Joiner-Alright so they gave you that job so they could just keep an eye on you and know what
you're doing?

J. Penniston- Right I worked directly for Halt on many things. I wrote reports to him um..for the rest
of the course I was in there at Bentwaters. I was uh..in charge of the eight day security councils we did where they had all twenty seven full Colonels attending there including the wing commander. I was

always under their eye. Um..its uh..it was uh..thats what they did to me, they promoted me and put me in a key position for reporting the Rendlesham Forest incident. I was taken care of.

A. Joiner- Have you ever asked Halt or your other superior to confirm any of this? Have you ever said
hey are you supposed to be watching me? Am I being monitored? Are you part of the cover-up of Rendlesham? Have you ever asked any questions?

J. Penniston- No, not that way. I mean, if he's under orders he's under orders, that's how it works. I
did have a personal conversation with Major General Williams, uh..retired, not long ago..a few months ago. And y'know General Williams was very apologetic to me. He said he understood we were not treated fairly by uh..certain elements at the base and during the investigation and he was truly sorry for that. And uh..he uh..understands that uh..we all had to follow orders and how it works. So that's the closest I'm gonna get to an apology from uh..one of my command uh..officers. But that was nice of General Willia ms to do that.

A. Joiner- Yeah it was. J. Penniston- He's a very good officer, he's an Academy graduate, he's the top of the line as far of
officers, and he's a decent man. So I really appreciate him doing that

A. Joiner- So Halt's never said anything to you? J. Penniston- Halt has done nothing but ask me questions. Or ask me who's been contacting me, or
things like that. We've had very uh..private conversations, Chuck and I. I mean we've been on shoots together, we've been back in the U.K. uh..doing the SciFi shoot. And uh..we talked quite a bit there but his is more about questions with me. He's usually asking me questions that uh..it's not about conversation like that. I mean he seems like he still is uh..is uh..monitoring, or still appears to be continuing some type of uh..checking my status with it, or who's contacting me and stuff like that. It's an odd situation, I mean uh..and I'm gonna see uh..Chuck on a UFO conference, and I will bring some stuff up to him, and I will talk to him about this. And uh..I know he's looking forward to meeting me again to..I'm not sure what..I think he's gonna ask me about the codes, and why I probably didn't tell him about them...uh..tell him about the codes, but uh. So were gonna have a probably..a heart to heart conversation at a table somewhere at that convention.

A. Joiner- If he does ask you why you didn't tell him about them, what's your answer gonna be? J. Penniston- I didn't think they were important. A. Joiner- You didn't think they were important? Even though you knew they were..the first six pages,
you had an idea that it told you they were time travelers and that sort of thing?

J. Penniston- Yeah but that didn't happen until 1994. A. Joiner- That was with the hypnosis? Okay. J. Penniston- Correct. A. Joiner- So at the time you didn't know any of it, you thought it all could have been gibberish?

J. Penniston- Correct. A. Joiner- And you felt it would be a career killer. I understand that. J. Penniston- It was a career killer. I mean, that would've been it. A. Joiner- Do you feel that this experience changed you? I know it changed you. Was it for the better?
Was it for worse? Did it change your morals, your values, the way you see other people? How did it change you?

J. Penniston- It's uh..like apples and oranges, night and day. From the time I walked into the woods I
left a different person. But I'll tell you what, uh..some of the things I changed within me is the way I look at things. I look at the world differently, I look at the people differently. I somehow know whats more important than..than..more important than careers, more important than money, uh. Life is important. Uh..I have a great appreciation for that. I mean..I'm probably one of the few men that can be walking through the woods and.. I tell you I go to this place they have the river run, they have a bench and that. So I'm sitting out there last Summer and I'm watching the uh..otters play across the river and that. And then I get fixed in on bees, being ..uh..working..getting their honey and stuff like that. It's because I have an appreciation for life now. I didn't have that before. It was all about uh..y'know, hustle and bustle and what you can get outta life, and what you gotta do, and what you gotta make, and what you gotta... It just changed it completely. Um..I'm appreciative of what's around me right now.

A. Joiner- Do you feel that, knowing what you know now about the time travelers... and they're
human, Does that give you any sense of an afterlife or a spiritual life?

J. Penniston- Yes, this is..If you're talking about religious-wise, yes. This has changed my..many parts
of my views on religion. Uh..I uh..think that uh..things might not be as they appear in established religions. I think that uh..many times in the past I think that simple shepherd people that were tending flocks might have got fooled. What would happen if you had a shepherd that was attending a flock of uh..sheep and a NASA astronaut with a jet pack landed? Would that be an angel, or would that be a religious experience for them?

A. Joiner- I think so. J. Penniston- That's right. A. Joiner- I think history shows throughout time, when something occurred, and this is just my
opinion, that you really didn't have a brain file to fit it into, it became a deity, it became an angel, it became something otherworldly.

J. Penniston- Right, right. I think that uh..we've made a lot of mistakes throughout history. Uh..you
know it's because of...you know it's because of the knowledge level, they didn't know what they were looking at.

A. Joiner- Right. I mean because Ancient Aliens I think demonstrates that very well. J. Penniston- Yeah, and you know there's a..y'know its uh..y'know to say that I don't believe that

uh..the universe was not created by a superior being and a God. Yeah, I believe in that. I believe that this y'know..something, it was created by some type of uh..supreme being, yes. I believe in that kind of stuff. I mean, certain things it doesn't change, but I'm saying that things throughout our history can be misinterpreted as religious experiences that are really not.

A. Joiner- I would agree with you on that. I didn't get interested in all this until the Stephenville event
three years ago. It was three years ago on January 8th. And the witnesses, it sort of rocked their world. Some of them were going to their preachers, their spiritual leaders at the time because it was frightening to them and it didn't really fit with what they knew or had been taught in their religion. And when I started looking into it and people started pointing out things in the bible like Ezekiel's wheel and Genesis where it says the sons of God came down and found Earth women fair and took them for wives, I was like oh my, here we go. It changed my perspective on that religious aspect also.

J. Penniston- But if you're asking Angelia, do I believe in God? Yes I believe in God. A. Joiner- Who is God? That's the question. J. Penniston- I believe in a supreme being, yes. But I'm saying that people can mistaken things, um..
the God of ignorance, it's not because um..they just don't understand what they're seeing.

A. Joiner- I think so too. When these last few pages are deciphered do you feel it's something that's
going to be world-changing? Is it going to really educate us more than these first six pages?

J. Penniston- No, I think the actual impact is the first six pages. I think that what you'll find, and I'm
leaning really strong toward this, I have a feeling that the rest of them are additional locations.

A. Joiner- Additional longitude latitude locations? J. Penniston- Yeah, that's what I believe they are. A. Joiner- And do you..Boy that would be a lot, six pages line by line. I think it was the second
page...I dunno there might be several more locations, and what do you think that's supposed to mean or why are we supposed to look at Hy Brasil and these other locations if that's what it turns out to be?

J. Penniston- Well y'know if you look at Hy Brasil...lets face it, Hy Brasil is a hypothetical situation,
its a folklore. It's open for a lot of debate, I mean is it true? Probably not, I don't know, but the location near there is something I was given. I think that here's additional areas..natural areas I believe that's what they're giving us is probably the natural areas where EM and vortexes activity created throughout the planet. I think there's other locations for that. Is there an advantage for somebody to know those? Uh..probably not without technology. I think they're gonna need to know how to build the ships and stuff do time travel if they wanna use it. Um..but I think that's more or less what the remaining pages are. I'm guessing though, I don't know for sure until they're deciphered. um..but any case they were important enough to be given to me, they must mean something. I do believe the first six pages are probably the most aweing and most astonishing. For continuous planetary advancement, I mean c'mon now, just look at what that says, I mean what is it saying? I mean the fourth coordinate what does that mean? I don't know what the fourth coordinate means either. Uh..hopefully there's somebody that can figure that out, I mean it's written in English. But I don't know what it means, it's beyond my level of understanding.

A. Joiner- What do you think the number 8100 means? J. Penniston- I don't know. I don't know what that means. I don't even get a feeling off that, I have no
idea. 8100, I don't know , What is that? What could that be? I don't know, I could guess.I mean I could make guesses and stuff but..Rendlesham has never been about guessing. Rendlesham's only been about facts, and that's all we're doing is presenting the facts. I think it's up to somebody with better education, better experience to decipher what all this means I mean we're continuing just presenting the facts. I mean there they are, work with them, do what you can with them, figure them out, do what you must with them. It's not up to John and I or the other witnesses to determine what exactly happened out there that night, it was just for us to report what we seen and the specifics of what we seen, and that's what we did.

A. Joiner- Someone in the chat room is asking if you think you have a role to play in disclosure,
which I think they mean that in an alien sense. And we've already learned that this is... the time travelers are more or less human.

J. Penniston- My personal feeling on disclosure...will never happen. Will never happen. The reason it
won't happen is because 98 percent of the explainable phenomena in ufo's, is uh.. orchestrated by people for own self interests that their spaceships, their aliens, their whatever, green people, whatever.. And they're all explainable events..98 percent of them. Those are the ones that will keep us from ever figuring out anything for disclosure because of all the uh.. I call it the uh..ufo hysteria. The 2 percent of the cases that cannot be truly explained, well those are hardly ever looked at. Those are truly unexplainable, they don't have answers. They know its not natural phenomena, its not man made phenomena. Its stuff we just don't know what it is. There is plenty of those cases. A case in point is.. Leslie Kean. She did a book called Ufo's, Generals, and something... It was a long title, I can't remember. And that was with 14 uh.. fellow military members from around the world. From South America, to Europe, to wherever...to Iran...that truly had unexplainable..those 2 percent phenomena. I mean stuff where they were photographed on nose cams off of fighters and shot at and tried to down them. And they are truly unexplainable events. Those uh.. y'know yeah it'd be great to have full disclosure on that. But when you have people going around saying they were contacted last night by an orb, and uh that they seen aliens in their back yard, I mean that stuffs ridiculous. I don't believe in ufo's myself, but uh I mean I believe that there is 2 percent of those unexplainable phenomena that's happening. But uh I would say that 90 percent of the people just make things up..that's my true belief on it.

A. Joiner- Now wasn't there a witness? Was it not Larry Warren that supposedly had an encounter
with an orb at Rendlesham?

J. Penniston-Yes, Larry has some interesting stories. Now he's one of the witnesses too. But you gotta
remember, uh here's what happened... We had a cover-up going on. We had people that were given sodium pentathol, their minds were messed with on what they remembered. And Larry was messed with by uh whether it was Wing Intel or whether it was the NSA... he had uh influences like that. So his memory is tainted too. So if you're uh looking for holes in Rendlesham because of uh if Larry says I see some green men or if I see an orb or something like that.. You gotta remember he was messed with probably with some of the best drugs available at the time. So uh..No, I'll defend Larry on that one.

A. Joiner- So you think either he actually saw the blue orb, or it was a suggestion given to him while

under sodium pentathol?

J. Penniston-Well not unless you are talking about the blue lights that were from the uh actual time
bubble that happened out there. Are you talking about that, or what?

A. Joiner- Well I think he described it as he could see some sort of being in it, but he knew it wasn't
human, that it had big eyes. Was that right, or not? I might have gotten this mixed up with something else.

J. Penniston-I don't know. I talked to Larry when I was over there, we had a heart to heart discussion.
He knows that he was uh also tampered with by unknown agencies and drug induced too. And it has put a toll on all the witnesses that were messed with like that. Some of us handle it better than others, and some of us have more difficulty with it. Quite honestly we owe Larry Warren a lot with this because it was him that actually broke the story open. Or else it would still remain unknown, probably today.

A. Joiner- Can you comment a little bit more about what you referred to as the time bubble, just a
second ago? I'm not familiar with that.

J. Penniston-The immediate area around the uh bright light and when it was emulating and started to
dissipate...and when the craft appeared. Around that object..the craft..extending out about 15 feet, 20 feet. There is a area that time slowed, or where it was catching up..or something was going on. There was zero sound though, it was void of sound and things. And that was an effect that was around that craft, which happened on the first night with me and John. And it happened on the third night with John and two other security policeman.

A. Joiner- So it was like things were slowed down a lot, or? I'm not clear... I'm sorry. J. Penniston- Its the craft trying to catch up in our time area, our time. That's all it is. A. Joiner- Oh with the present time? It was the craft trying to catch up with the present time? J. Penniston- Its something with the generation of travel. I don't understand that either, you probably
need to talk to a time expert y'know about that. Im not really sure.. I'm just telling you...

A. Joiner- So it was a sense that you got at the time and it was all around the craft, and that's why you
called it the time bubble?

J. Penniston- Well its not a sense. Its the conditions that were extending out from the object 15 feet
away. That was the situation..

A. Joiner- What did it look like 15 feet away? J. Penniston- When the white light dissipated there was a black triangular pie shaped craft, black
onyx in color. With blue lights and some orange running through the fabric of the craft at various sizes and rates. And uh that's what appeared at... What would a Cadillac look at 15 feet? You know you'd be looking at a Cadillac wouldn't you?

A. Joiner- Right. J. Penniston- I mean its very clear. Its very clear, I mean 15 feet is close. A. Joiner- Yes it is, I agree. J. Penniston- Okay, I mean there's no way of mistaking it for anything other than what it is. So that's
a triangular craft...black, warm to the touch. As I went around the other side of it I was hoping to find United States Air Force printed on the side of it. Believe me I was hoping it was like that, and then I find pictorials that don't make no sense at all either. So it was a very traumatic experience.

A. Joiner- Do you have any feeling about those pictorial..the glyphs, about what they mean? J. Penniston- Uh..no. Its um y'know it's..I wish I could decipher them, I wish I knew. A. Joiner- Its really one of the most interesting cases ever. J. Penniston- Well there's some other interesting things about them. I was given something a couple
of months ago, maybe three months ago. It was by Dave in the UK. He's done a lot of work for us over there and Dave mentioned a case that happened in 1802 in Japan. And its not the identical same symbols, but I'll tell you what..its the same alphabet.. because they match that way. I mean triangles with circles and other symbols were pretty much the same. And that was described in a ufo that happened in 1802 that came out of the ocean off of the coast of Japan. And they have folklore and they have drawings of it. And that only came to light I guess last year or a couple of years ago. But its very interesting that the symbols are so close.

A. Joiner- Right, I guess I haven't heard of that one. J. Penniston- Utsuro-Bune was the incident...Utsuro-Bune. A. Joiner- Okay. When the craft..after you touched those symbols, you described this light getting
very very bright, and it caused you to back up. Is that correct?

J. Penniston- Correct, like it was going to explode I thought. A. Joiner- And did you feel fearful at that time? J. Penniston- I thought it might explode, I wasn't sure. I thought something was wrong..I didn't know. A. Joiner- Okay. So you backed up, and then what happened? J. Penniston- Well I took a defensive position. Y'know we got down and anticipating... A. Joiner- Guns drawn? Did you have guns? J. Penniston- No, we couldn't have..we had to leave them there because the status of forces..the Brits
wouldn't allow us to take them off base.

A. Joiner- Oh my goodness. So you were there with nothing huh? J. Penniston- Well I'm gonna tell you right now, it wouldn't have made any difference if we were
armed or not. I mean there was nothing we could do with that, I mean it was a solid craft. There was nothing we could have done.

A. Joiner- So you backed up and consciously that's when you became aware of John being there
again, right?

J. Penniston- Yeah. I heard a couple of branches break behind me and I turned around and it was
John. And if you think why didn't I see John before, well I was pretty focused on what was going on before me and I was fixed in on this craft. I mean I could have... I was concentrating on that. So that could be part of it.

A. Joiner- Well I agree. When the thing left..can you describe that to us..when the craft left? Before
that, you thought it had been on three legs. But when it left you couldn't see that, is that correct?

J. Penniston- Right. I couldn't see the legs though even when I looked underneath of it. I mean it was
fixed somehow on the ground. It appeared on some kind of legs but I couldn't see nothing. And then when it took off it generated more light. And then it sort of weaved back between the trees and went up to treetop level and was gone in the blink of an eye. Then we..John and I tried to regain acquisition of it. And John did see it at a farther distance, and so did I. And we pursued it after that, for a short distance. We didn't go a whole..not long. But we did pursue it until we uh thought it was not an immediate danger to the base or if it was within our reach to actually..

A. Joiner- Find it? J. Penniston- Yeah, find it. I mean we did get past..we got out to the field, I lost visual on it again. I
looked over...I seen the lighthouse, and that was like a long ways away. And then John regained acquisition of it in front of us. And then we pursued it shortly till the treeline again, and then we gave up pursuit at that point.

A. Joiner- And when it left...there was no air displacement? No sound? J. Penniston- There was no air displacement, no sound. The other thing that was odd upon examining
the craft.. there was no intake, there was no exhaust ports, there was no crew compartment, there was no windows. It was void of all those typical things you'd find on an aircraft.

A. Joiner- Did it take off flat, or did it take off at a 45 degree angle? J. Penniston- It momentarily when it went up to treetop level, it momentarily rotated, and then was
gone in the blink of an eye.

A. Joiner- Rotated and then was gone? Hmm.. J. Penniston-Yep, a slight rotation to the left and then gone. I mean it left at incredible speed. I mean
we can guess guesstimates, I mean um..and its only a guess.. But its got to be in the neighborhood of 5

or 6 thousand miles an hour. But it was fast.. That's the other thing, it had no sonic boom.

A. Joiner- And the one in Stephenville didn't either. When I was talking to that Major from Carswell
Air Force Base in Ft. Worth he said.. look, if this thing was as big as what they say , it should have mowed down the area like a tornado would, with the sonic boom.

J. Penniston- Right. Yeah and that's only traveling at like seven or eight hundred miles an hour, I
mean that's not fast and that would create a boom like that. It would knock stuff down, especially the one in Stephenville. Yeah, I read up on that one and I read the Air Force reports on the F-16's too and I went that was a fast cover story there, they got that one out pretty fast. They did...that was pretty good.

A. Joiner- It was, two weeks later they had 10 F-16's in the air. Well you said just a few minutes ago
that you don't believe in ufo's. Is that your stance today?

J. Penniston- I say that because...that's not completely correct. I believe that there's 2 percent of the
sightings that cannot be explained by man made or natural phenomena okay. Those are ufo's. Not the other stuff that's explainable, not misidentified stuff. Do you know how many people misidentify aircraft for ufo's? Its ridiculous. And you know, I've been out on several occasions and they go oh, a ufo. I go no, thats a C-17. They don't know what they're looking at. Its terrible, they just don't have no idea what they're looking at. For example you know an SR-71 when its flying at their optimum..I think its still classified... their altitude. That glows. That glows at night when its flying. With your unaided eye you would see a glowing triangular type object in the air.

A. Joiner- Well honest people do make honest mistakes, I've always said that. J. Penniston- I'm not saying.. No, they believe it. Its misidentification because they don't know what
they're looking at. Based on what their knowledge level is they go that's a ufo. And they're right, but its explainable.

A. Joiner- You said earlier in the interview that you still have and John has more code..more
information that hasn't been released. Can you expand on that any?

J. Penniston- Well I mean we have the rest of the uh.. ones that are in the notebook that haven't been
released. Yeah.

A. Joiner- Is that it, or is there even more? J. Penniston- No, um..No, there's not no more. A. Joiner- And John doesn't have anything else? J. Penniston- John has none that I know of or.. No, he..not that I know of. A. Joiner- Alright. Well I appreciate you coming on with me Jim and I hope we get to talk... J. Penniston- Well thank you Angelia, I know its a tough... Its a tough interview I know, because..
but the whole subject matter is very perplexed.

A. Joiner- It is, I agree with that. J. Penniston- And y'know if I'm in your position and you were telling me this story, I don't know if I'd
believe you. I think you gotta have the more uh physical evidence and stuff like that. So its ok if people don't believe what happened out there, that's fine y'know. I'm ok with that.

A. Joiner- Well I think most people in this field know that something happened there. They know that
you're credible and honest and that you're telling the story as you know it. So that's a good thing, its just everybody's on pins and needles wanting to know about the rest of the code. And when is it going to be released and what is it going to say.

J. Penniston- Well I'll tell you right now..On Facebook they're asking me if there's anything gonna
happen in 2012. Hey, I don't know anything that's gonna happen. All I know, I think that everything's gonna be just fine. I think that I can't foresee the future like anybody else. But I don't know things... I don't know things like that, and they do contact me on Facebook like I know something. I don't know anything...I know as much as they do. And no, I don't have no secret information on the fate of humanity. No, I don't know anything like that, okay. But people actually think I have answers like that. I don't have those.

A. Joiner- Well people will sometimes ask me about it and I'll say that whatever's gonna happen in
2012 is gonna happen, so why worry about it? I don't know...I don't think anybody has any answers either.

J. Penniston- Well it can't be no worse than 2010...y'know, I mean I'm pretty sure of that one. 2010
was sort of bad..and 2009. So I think its gonna be actually probably a pretty good year.

A. Joiner- I feel good about this year. I don't know exactly what it is but I just have this positive
feeling about this year. I'm so happy that you decided to come on with me and I hope I didn't grill you too hard. I'm just trying to understand it and I haven't been in this field all that long so I've got a lot to learn I realize that. Angelia and Jim speak briefly about an upcoming UFO event in Pheonix as the show closes......