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Doestortureposeaproblemtodemocracyanddemocraticinstitutions? Somewouldargueyes indefinitely. They [those who assert yes] may believe it has no place in our world under any circumstances, including those [circumstances] that are often thought as lifethreatening to massive amounts of civilians . Others may see it as a tool to extract vital information that could save humanity from a lot of trouble or from imminent threats via reputable terrorists. In this paper I will discuss the potential problems torture presents to democracy and democratic institutions,whydemocraciestorture and why might they need to do so, and lastly when is torture justifiedandwhichcircumstancesmakeit justifiable. The resources I will be using are the following works: TortureandDemocracybyDarius Rejali, The Torture Question PBS documentary, and lastlyUSTorture:voicesfromtheBlackSites byMarkDanner. Why is torture a problem? Some feel that it is a necessary meanstosavecountless lives. The issue is asserting or firmly believing that torture does not produce any problems is a very problematic viewpoint. This isanissuethatcannotbesolvedbyasimple policy decision,duetothecomplicationsit embarks and produces. Many times what comes in eventually comes out, and the consequences of what comes out can be very ugly. One of the most important aspects of torture that needs to be understood is what really happens in torture case by case and are Americans and the international communityfondofwhatreallyhappens. One of the major reasons torture is aproblemisthefactthatitisnotunderaspecificcriteriaor expectation, instead it isavagueworldofdoingwhateveronesdiscretionpermits,orinRejaliswords, Soldiers learn about torture not inschools,butthroughbackroomapprenticeships (Rejali520). For some, the gloves should stay on, but others feel and agree with J. Cofer Black Dir., CIA

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Counterterrorist Ctr., 199902 who says But I have to say that all you need to know is there is a before 9/11 and after 9/11, after 9/11 the gloves come off (The Torture Question PBS). Noticethe conditions or treatment before 9/11andafter9/11arechangeableaccordingtoBlack. Thusthereisan uncertainty to tortures characteristics, itcanstartbadandbecomeworseandworse,agruesomecycle leading to abuse. What does the gloves come off even mean though? According to PBS video 11:5512:10 time marks, taking the gloves off meant to get rougher (The Torture Question PBS). Thus it appearsthatcustomarynormsoftorturethatleadtoabusiveconductbyinterrogatorsseemedto become prevalent more often, especially when they [the interrogators], rarely [extracted] good intelligence from prisoners and I[SPC.AnthonyLagouranisInterrogator,U.S.Army,201105]blame thatonweweregettingprisonersthatwereinnocent(TheTortureQuestionPBS). Getting or gathering prisonerswhoare innocentisoneofthemajorreasonsIbelievetortureisa problem. Why must a suspicious person with no clear link of evidence be taken as a detainee to be questioned for something they may not even know? A person who can end up in a horrific predicament. An unidentified soldier at time marks 10:4510:50 even claims It [the conditions or prisons for torturing] was a wink wink atmosphere which I feel means there was no sense of order, anything goes (The Torture Question PBS). There is a lackofsupervisiontomakesuredetaineesare ensured human rights. According to Rejali, the same factors that inhibit institutional learning about torture also make its public supervision impossibly difficult (519). Gathering prisoners who may not have direct brains for what is going to happen next [future attack]aswellasalackofsupervisioninstill anenvironmentfordisaster. In my view, a democracy should encourage transparency and consent of the governed. The

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secrecy of torture is a nasty blow in the name of a transparent democracy. Issues thatstilltodayhave not been resolved with torture is often the fact that typically complete access of torture archives does not occur until decades later. Thus the light of publicreasonisoftenseen toolate (Rejali521). The lack of public reason is due to the fact that governments rarely assess torture programs publicly leaving the consequencesintheunderworld[wherepunishmentisunseenbymost] (Rejali 521). Thisis a massive problem for torture advocates in ademocracy. Beingnarrowprofessionals[torturers],they demand autonomytogetthejobdoneright (Rejali520). Ithinkthisiswheremostofthehumanrights violationscanfosterwithoutintervention,thusnotgoodfordemocraticvalues. I believe democracies torture because the individuals who govern [politicians, generals, CIA etc.] or those who are even governed [ordinary citizens ofademocracy]believethattortureworks,[in terms of extracting vital information and saving lives from potential terrorist attacks]. This is surprising considering government researchers do not do archival research to assess tortures effectiveness instead they footnote publicresearch (Rejali522). Thereisan issue becausepublicresearchislimited due to the classified placement of government archives, thus producing a cycle of ineffectiveness for researching theimplicationsand successoftorture. WithViolence[being] acomplexphenomenon many interrogators continue to do so even though The evidence so far is that torture does not work and often destroys interrogators and their families (Rejali 526). ThatiswhyRejalicontinuesto assert that Governments may persist in torturing for information even whentheyknowtorturefor information doesnotwork(Rejali533). Another problem torture poses for democracy is the secretive nature of overseas facilities suchasblacksites,orasMarkDannerputsit, From whom wastheexistenceofthesesecretoverseas

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facilities secret? Not from the terrorists, surely. From Americans, presumably (Danner 2). Even worse is the quote from an individual who has supervised the capture and transfer of accused terrorists, If you dont violate someone's human rights some of the time, you probably arent doing yourjob, (Danner2). Itappearsthatmanyinterrogatorsortheirsupervisorsseemtohavethisattitude on the job site, imagine if this occurred at a workplace in the US, a lawsuit would ensue. The United States, often said to be a model democracy for the whole world is becoming a major embarrassment sinceitcanviolatetheGenevaConventiontreatiesthroughtorture. I would consider torture anything that constitutes any type of sensory pain from interrogation. There is a key textual reference from Danners work that points sensory related pain out. Controlof the sources environment permits the interrogator to determine his diet, sleep pattern and other fundamentals. Manipulating these into irregularities, so that the subject becomes disorientated, is very likely to create feelings of fear and helplessness (Danner 3). Notice at the end of the excerpt, very likely to create feelings of fear and helplessness which I feel constitutes a type of sensory pain and suffering. How can torture be justified? This is a very controversial question to embark on forsomeone like me. I oppose torture under all circumstances. Nevertheless iftorturecould bejustifiable,itwould havetoretaincertaincharacteristicsatalltimes. Ibelievethatiftortureisamustforsavingmanylives,it must only affect the brains not average insurgents but the leader of a major terrorist organization (The Torture Question PBS). If a democracy is going to waste theirtime,resources,andpersonnelto do something that could arguably be against international law, it might as well be used efficiently and successfully. When the new commander Miller had a new facility to run There were now 625

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inmates,, 1400 MPs and MIs and plenty of hard feelings (The Torture Question PBS). Notice plenty of hard feelings part of the excerpt. The environment does not cultivate respect, there are a lack of boundaries between people. This is not acceptable in my opinion, there should be an environmentfosteringcolleaguesworkingharmoniouslytogetherwithclearsetgoals. There are cases in torture where The detainees fought back, there werehungerstrikes, andin one 3 month period at least 14 prisoners tried to kill themselves and still there was little evidence of intelligence breakthroughs (The Torture Question PBS). If torture were to be justifiable, suicidal tendencies for both detaineesandtorturerswouldneedtobeevaluated. AccordingtotheRejaliarticle, researchers noticed that torturers are more vulnerable to job burnout than other violence workers. the least burned out were those who facilitated violence, but did not actually perform it. (Rejali 524). In my opinion the torturers would need large breaks and occupation switching [working in a different group of personnel on a similar yet lessexhaustingandamorementallyrelaxingtask]. On top of that Generally, torturers suffered from insomnia,hypersensitivity,nervousness,emotionalproblems, alcoholism,andpotentialsuicidalbehavior(Rejali524). I think torturers should also be laid off or sent to other tasks if they begin to become problematic in the workforce or even with their families. The thing is, these individuals can send these problems from torture through generational curses, in other words, they abuse their family, then their offsprings abuse their offsprings and so on. Governments should only torture highvalue detainees to ensure a balance of freedom and security, without being an obvious actor of violating human rights. I cannotdeclarehowtorturecanbeethical,asethicalcanbeverysubjective.

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WorksCited Danner,Mark."TheNewYorkReviewofBooks."USTorture:VoicesfromtheBlackSitesby MarkDanner.N.p.,09Apr.2009.Web.16May2013. <http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530>. Rejali,DariusM."Chap.23WhyGovernmentsDon'tLearn."TortureandDemocracy.Princeton: PrincetonUP,2007.51936.Print. TheTortureQuestion.PBS,18Oct.2005.Web.15May2013. <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/view/>.