JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013 - Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

JACKSON V AEGLive May 28
th
2013 Trial transcripts
05/28/13 Please help us!
Paul Gongaware
(Co-CEO of AEG Live Concerts West, This Is It Producer)
Plaintiffs Adverse Witness.
Direct examination by Brian Panish.
Q Good morning, Mr. Gongaware.
A Good morning.
Q Did you have a chance to prepare for your testimony?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you have meetings?

A I met with my attorneys, yes.
Q How many attorneys did you meet with?
A Two.
Q What are their names?
A Marvin Putnam, Matthew Mrkonic.
Q How many meetings did you have with your attorneys?
A To prepare?
Q Well, let's take since your depo -- first of all, before your deposition, you met for
two times -- two separate days -- with your attorneys to prepare to give your testimony
under oath. You recall that, sir?
A Yes.
Q How many times have you met with your attorneys since then?
A Half a dozen, maybe.
Q How many times in the last 2 weeks?
A 3 or 4.
Q When was the last meeting?
A Monday.
Q And the meeting before that?
A Don't recall specifically.
Q Well, how many meetings in the last 2 weeks, did you say?
A I don't know. Half a dozen, maybe.
Q Okay. So in the last week you had a half dozen meetings, and you can't recall
when the last meeting was before yesterday?
A I've been on the road with the Rolling Stones on tour with them, and I have not
been able to prepare like I wanted to. So I've been getting time when I could.
Q That wasn't my question, Mr. Gongaware. My question was: In the last 2 weeks
you said you met half a dozen times with your attorney. The only time you can recall
meeting with them was yesterday. Did you meet Saturday or Sunday?
A No. I was out of town.
Q You were out of town?
A Yes.
Q And you left town on friday. So you didn't meet on Friday either, right?
A No.
Q Did you meet on Thursday?
A They brought me over here, but it wasn't a meeting.
Q Did you meet on Wednesday?
A I don't recall.
Q Mr. Gongaware, have you had problems in the past with your memory?
A No, sir. I don't think so.
Q Okay. Now, sir, did you review any documents to try to refresh your recollection
to testify under oath here today?
A I reviewed the documents that were in my -- that you brought up in my
deposition.
Q That's it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you speak to Mr. Phillips before you came at any time to testify?
A No, sir.
Q Have you spoken to Mr. Anschutz about this case?

A No, sir.
Q So you've never spoken to Mr. Anschutz at any time about this lawsuit, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q How about Mr. Tohme -- have you spoken with him?
A I have spoken to him, but not about the lawsuit.
Q Okay. When did you last speak to him?
A A couple months ago.
Q Sir, are you currently the Co-CEO of AEG Live Concerts West?
A Yes.
Q And you were that -- in that position in 2009 when the This Is It tour was
forming?
A Yes.
Q And Concerts West is a division of AEG Live?
A That's right.
Q And AEG Live Productions, are you familiar with that entity, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Are there any employees of that entity?
A Um, I don't think there's any employees, per se. That's a production company that
we use to -- when we produce shows as opposed to promote them.
Q Like when you produced This Is It, that was a show you produced, right?
A Yes.
Q What other shows have you produced at AEG Live, sir?
A We produced a tour for Prince in '90 -- 2004, I think.

Q Okay. Between 2004 and 2009, did you promote and produce any tours?
A Prince, Michael Jackson.
Q Okay. Well, the Michael Jackson tour never went. Did it, sir?
A Didn't.
Q Okay. So the answer to my question is, between 2004 and 2009, you never --once
the Prince tour was over -- you never promoted or produced a concert tour, did
you, sir?
A Promoted lots of them. Promoted and produced, I don't recall any.
Q Okay. Can you tell me before 2004, back to when you started with AEG Live
--when was that, sir?
A Around 2000.
Q Okay. How many tours did you promote and produce between 2000 and 2004?
A Promote and produce?

Q Yes, sir.

A None.

Q So in the history of AEG Live, since you've been there as a CEO, you've produced
and promoted one concert tour, and that was with the artist known as -- formerly known
as Prince, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were there some problems during the Prince tour, sir?
A No. Not that I recall.
Q Have you talked to Prince about his experience on the tour?
A I did afterwards.
Q Did he express any concerns about the way AEG Live treated him during that
promotion and production?

Putnam: Objection. Relevance.
Judge: Sustained.
Panish: Your honor. Custom and practice of the company.
Judge: Maybe later.
Panish: The only question was did he, yes or no.
Judge: Yes or no may become relevant.
Panish: Could you please ask the question be read back?
(question is read back)
A No.
Q Now sir, you gave a deposition in this case under oath, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you've testified in the criminal case under oath, correct?
A Right.
Q And you've given depositions before under oath, correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you've been in other lawsuits, correct?
A I've never been sued, but I've participated as -- you know -- as participant.
Q Well, your company, Concerts West has been in lawsuits before, hadn't it sir?
Putnam: Objection. Relevance. Judge: Overruled.
A I don't know of any.
Q Do you know an individual named Hulett? Have you ever heard that name, sir?
A Ah, yes. Tom Hulett.
Q And who is Mr. Hulett?
A He was the -- of the former Concerts West -- he ran the company.
Q Okay. And was he in a lawsuit with Concerts West, sir?
A No, he wasn't.
Q Was his company in a lawsuit with Concerts West, sir?
A No, sir.
Q Were you deposed in any matter involving Mr. Hulett?
A No, sir.
Q Okay. Now sir, you testified in your deposition under oath that you were a CPA, is
that right?
A Yes.
Q And that you were licensed in New York and Washington, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Sir, you're not licensed in New York and Washington, are you?
A I haven't kept up my current -- my continuing credits, so I haven't -- my
continuing educational credits, so I wouldn't be able to practice.
Q Sir, your license lapsed in New York over 20 years ago, didn't it sir?
A I have no idea.
Q Well, you testified that you're licensed, but you're not licensed in New York as a
CPA, are you sir?
A I don't know. The last I knew, I was.
Q Okay. Well, when was -- do you pay dues every year to be a licensed CPA in New
York, sir?
A No.
Q Okay. Sir, isn't it true that your license lapsed over 20 years ago as a CPA in the
State of New York?
A I have no idea.
Q Okay. But you just told us that you're licensed, didn't you?
A I believe I am.
Q Okay. Well sir, you're not licensed -- you testified under oath you're licensed in
the State of Washington as a CPA, didn't you sir?
A Yes.
Q And your license has lapsed in the State of Washington also, hasn't it sir?
A I have no idea.
Q Well, so you don't know whether you're a licensed CPA in New York or
Washington, do you sir?
A I believe I am.
Q Okay. Well, have you looked on the Licensing Board and checked the status of
your license in the last 20 years in the State of New York, sir?
A No. I never felt a need to because i don't practice.
Q But you testified under oath that you're licensed, correct?
A Yes.
Q Now sir, you've been in this concert business since 1972, is that right?
A Sounds about right.
Q And you've promoted bands like Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, Elvis Presley,
Rolling Stones, you told us, right?

A I don't know that I mentioned Rolling Stones.

Q You just did this morning.

A Oh, this morning. Okay. I thought you were referring to my deposition. Sorry.
Q Did I say your deposition, sir?
A Sorry, sir. Misunderstood.

Q Now sir, Concerts West, did you create that name?

A No.

Q Who created that name?

A It was already -- I went to work for Concerts West in the 70s in Washington
State.
Q And Concerts West, was that owned by an individual?
A I'm not sure who owned it.
Q Who was your understanding of the people running Concerts West when you
joined it?
A Tom Hulett, Terry Bassett when i joined it. Lester Smith.
Q How about Jerry Weintraub? Did you ever work for him, sir?
A Yes.
Q When did you work for him?
A I worked for him -- gosh, I don't know what the date was. Somewhere around the
early '80s.
Q And where did you work for him, sir?
A In Los Angeles.
Q And which company?
A At that time I was with Concerts West and I worked -- was assigned to
Management 3 -- Jerry's company. Mr. Weintraub's company.
Q Now sir, you mentioned Elvis Presley. You promoted a tour for Elvis Presley, is
that right, sir?
A I worked on the tours. I wasn't the promoter.
Q What was your position?
A I was assigned to Colonel Tom Parker.
Q Is that Mr. Presley's agent?
A That's his manager.
Q Manager.
And sir, you worked on that tour when Elvis Presley died, correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And Elvis Presley died related to prescription drugs, correct?
A I believe he did, yes.
Q And there was a doctor on the tour, Dr. Nick, that was giving him the prescription
drugs, correct?
A There were several doctors involved. I believe Dr. Nick was one of them, yes.
Q Well, you've talked to others about your experiences with Elvis Presley and his
death and the tour you were involved in, haven't you sir?
A I'm sure I have.
Q Well sir, you've written to people regarding this case and Elvis Presley, haven't
you sir?
A Don't recall.
Q Well sir, do you recall who Gabe Sutton is?

A Gabe Sutton?
Q Yes. G-A-B-E Sutton.
A No.
Q Sir, is it true that when you worked on the Elvis tour when he died -- so you knew
what to expect when Michael Jackson passed away, isn't that right, sir?
A I kind of knew what was going to happen, yes.

Q And you knew -- strike that question. Let me show you, sir, exhibit. This is an e-
mail from July 5
th
, 2009.
Do you know what day michael jackson passed away, sir?
A June 25
th
.
Q You remember that specific day, right?
A I do.
Q Okay. So let me --
Panish: If you could put that up?
(Panish exhibits email)
Gongaware: Can I have a hard copy of this, please?
Panish: Absolutely. (gives a copy)
Gongaware: Thank you.
Q Is that your name on that e-mail, sir?
A Can I have a second to review it, please?
Q Sure. Tell me when you're ready.

A Okay. (reading document)
Yes, sir.
Q Did you send that e-mail, sir?
A I don't recall, but i may have, yeah.
Panish: I want to put that up.
(Panish exhibits email)
Q And who is Gabe Sutter?
A Sutter. Gabe Sutter is a computer guy, worked on my computers. And he was
involved in the -- can't remember what tour he was, but I was on tour with him. I think it
might have been Michael Jackson, one of the earlier tours.
Q Dangerous?

A Yeah. Might have been.

Q It says: I was working on the Elvis tour when he died, so I kind of knew what to
expect.
Did i read that right, sir?

A Yes, sir.

Q Did you write that on July 5
th
, 2009?

A I don't recall writing it, but Im sure I did.

Q Sir, do you know Mr. Trell?

A Oh, yes.

Q And who is -- do you report to Mr. Trell?

A No.

Q Who do you report to?

A I guess Randy Phillips.

Q The CEO of AEG Live?

A Yes.

Q And do you know that gentleman sitting next to Mr. Trell there with the glasses
who you were sitting by earlier today?
A Todd Alan.
Q What is his position with the company, sir?
A He's not with the company.
Q What does he do?
A He's a lawyer.
Q For who?
A For OMelveny.
Q For Mr. Putnam's firm?
A Yes.
Q Did he work on preparing you for this case, sir?
A He did, probably, a little, yes.
Q So that's another lawyer you just forgot to mention?
A Yes, sir.
Q How about the individual sitting next to Mr. Alan? Do you know who that is?
A Im sorry, I don't.
Q You don't know her?
A No.
Q Okay. Now, do you know another lawyer here sitting next to Mr. Putnam?
A Yes, I do.
Q What is her name?
A Jessica bina.
Q And did she help prepare you to testify under oath, sir?
A No.
Q Now sir, in all the experiences you had, did you ever become aware that any artist
you were working with was using any types of drugs on a tour?
A There was one, yes.
Q Who was that?
A Rick James.
Q Rick James. What was his song? Remember his most famous song?
A Super Freak. Give It To Me, Baby. -- Yes, he was an R&B artist.
Q And you worked with Rick James?
A Yes, I did.
Q Now, you knew that -- based on your experience with Michael Jackson -- that
there were problems on other tours, didn't you sir?
Putnam: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as to problems.
Gongaware: Yes, I don't understand.
Judge: Sustained.
Q Well, have you ever stated to anyone, sir, that you knew -- you'd been with
Michael Jackson -- and you knew the problems and idiosyncrasies on other tours? Did
you ever make that statement to anyone, sir?
Putnam: Same objection.
Judge: Overruled.
A I don't recall making that statement.
Q Okay. You don't recall means you could have, you could not have, you just don't
recall?
A I don't recall.
Q Okay. Now, when you started working for Concerts West, was that in 1976, sir?
A Somewhere around there.
Q And the Elvis tour was in 1977?
A That was one of them.
Q Well, the one when he died?
A Yes.
Q Now sir, did you -- and Mr. Meglen, is that your Co-CEO -- is that right?
A Yes.
Q Did Mr. Meglen and you buy the name Concerts West from someone?
A No.
Q Did you bring Concerts west to AEG Live, sir?
A Yes.
Q Did AEG Live buy Concerts West?
A Bought the assets.
Q Is that a yes?
A Bought the assets.
Q And then you came with the assets? You were one of the assets of the company,
right?
A Primarily, yes.
Q So they bought you?
A Primarily.
Q Now, earlier in your career, you had worked with the Jacksons and the Jackson 5,
correct?
A I did.
Q But you didn't have any interaction with Michael Jackson at that time, did you sir?
A That's right.
Q Because he was very young at that time, correct?
A I don't recall his age.
Q Now, you also told us -- Did you work on the Dangerous Tour?
A Yes.
Q And were you the tour manager?
A Yes, I was.
Q And was the Dangerous Tour from 1992 to 1993?
A Yes.
Q Were there 70 performances in Europe, Asia, South America and North America?
A I don't recall how many performances, but that's generally the -- where it took
place.
Q Well, do you know anywhere else it took place other than Europe, Asia, South
America and North America?
A I don't recall it took place in North America. I don't recall that.

Q Is Mexico in North America, sir?
A Yes, sir. It did take place in North America.
Q And sir, it made over $100 million gross, didn't it?
A I don't know what the gross was.
Q And all the profits to Mr. Jackson were donated to charity, weren't they?
A I don't know that.
Q You never learned that?
A I never learned that.
Q How about the Dangerous album? Are you familiar with that?
A Yes.
Q Is that the fastest selling album ever for Mr. Jackson in the United States?
Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A I have no idea.
Q Did you work on the Bad Tour, sir?
A No.
Q Do you know how many countries that tour went to?
A No.

Judge: I'm sorry. Did you say you did not work on that tour?
Gongaware: I did not work.
Judge: Sustained.
Q The question is: Do you know?
A I don't know.
Q Okay. Now, you were with Michael Jackson -- When you first met Michael
Jackson, you were with Colonel Parker, is that right?
A That's right.
Q And what did you call him? Elvis's what?
A Manager.
Q Manager. And Colonel Parker was well known in the industry?
A Yes.
Q And when you met Michael Jackson, was that in Las Vegas?
A Yes.
Q And was Mr. Steve Wynns brother, Michael Wynn present?
A It was Kenny Wynn. He was -- I was visiting the Colonel, and Kenny Wynn called
and said he was with Michael Jackson, and Michael wanted to meet the Colonel.
So I was going to leave, and the Colonel said: No, no. Stay.
And Michael came over, and we talked for an hour or two.
Q What year was that?
A Don't recall.
Q And did you eventually become the manager of the Dangerous Tour?
A No.

Q You never were the manager of the Dangerous Tour?

A No. I was the tour manager, which was, I was responsible for logistics with the B
party. There were 4 parties in that tour. The A party: the artist party. B was band and
administration. C was crew. D was documentary. And my responsibility was in the B
party to make sure we got -- I got everybody where they were supposed to go.
Q So you were the tour manager?
A The tour manager.
Q And the tour manager is in charge of logistics?
A Yes. And I was in charge of the B party logistics.
Q Travel, hotels, passports, things like that?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that Dangerous Tour, there were a lot of international logistics you had to
deal with, right?
A Yes.
Q And did you promote some of the dates for the first leg of the History Tour, sir?
A I promoted the date in Indonesia, and I promoted the two shows in Hawaii.
Q So that's a yes?
A Yes, sir.
Q And sir, you then became a tour executive for the second leg of the History Tour,
right?
A That's right.
Q And the first leg you worked with Marcel Avram, is that right?
A Yes.
Q And the second leg, did you become then a tour executive?
A Yes. On the second leg I was working directly for Michael.

Q And what happened to Mr. Avram?
A Just before the tour started, he went to jail on a tax issue in Germany.
Q So he was no longer available?

A Right.

Q And did somebody else take over -- Mr. Ammar?

A Tarak Ben Ammar became Michaels manager, yes.

Q Now, the History Tour. When that started, you knew that Michael Jackson had
been to rehabilitation at the end of the Dangerous Tour, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you knew that Michael Jackson had an issue at that time with medications
and drugs and had to go to rehabilitation, correct?
Putnam: Objection.
Gongaware: Yes. Based on the statement he made after the tour was over, I learned
it then, yes.
Panish: Is that a yes, sir?
Judge: When there's an objection, don't answer until I can rule on it.
Gongaware: I'm sorry. I didn't hear an objection.
Judge: That's all right. When there's an objection, just do not answer. And then I
can rule on the objection, and you'll know whether you can respond or not.
Gongaware: Okay. I didn't hear it.
Q Okay. Can you hear me okay, Mr. Gongaware?

A Yes sir, so far.

Q If you can't hear me, let me know, all right?

A Will do.

Q Okay. Now sir, it's your testimony under oath that you never knew at any time
until after the Dangerous Tour was over that Michael Jackson had any problems with
drugs or alcohol, correct?
A That's right.
Q You're as sure of that as anything you've testified to in this case, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now sir, did Michael Jackson -- Did you tell the Los Angeles Police Department
that you were aware of Michael Jacksons previous issues with painkillers?
A I don't recall specifically what I told them.
Q Okay. Well, Id like to show you exhibit, and I'm going to bring it up to you, sir.
And I'm going to put it up on the screen.
Panish: Don't put it up yet because I don't think it's in evidence.
Q And you can read the whole thing if you want to take the time, but I want to ask
you about a specific part. I'm going to yellow it out for you
(shows Gongaware the document)

Tell me when you're ready, Mr. Gongaware.

A If it's specific to this, I'm ready.
Q Okay. My question was: Does that refresh your recollection as to whether you told
the Los Angeles Police Department that you were aware of Michael Jackson's previous
use of painkillers?
A Yes, I was. And I was, based on his public statement.
Q Is that a yes, sir? Mr. Gongaware, could you -- if my questions are unclear, please
don't answer them, okay?
A Okay.
Q If you don't understand the question, please let me know, okay?
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you answer the questions that I asked you?
A Sure. I'd be happy to.
Q Okay. Does that refresh your recollection that you told the Los Angeles Police
Department that you were aware of Michael Jackson's previous use of pills and
painkillers?
Putnam: Objection. Asked and answered.
Judge: Overruled.
A Yes.
Q Thank you. Now -- and it's your claim that you never learned any of this until
after the Dangerous Tour, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Now, the Dangerous Tour had cancellations before the whole tour was
canceled, didn't it sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And there were a lot of cancellations, because you're the one that had to
take care of all the logistics, right?
A Yes.
Q And when there were cancellations, did you try to find out why a cancelation was
occurring?
A Didn't have time. Was just dealing with what was in front of me.
Q So a good tour manager, or a good tour executive, knows what's going on in the
tour, don't they?
Putnam: Objection. Argumentative.
Judge: Overruled.
A Not in the case of the Michael Jackson tours.
Q So it's your testimony, then, that a good tour manager does not know what's going
on with the tour, is that right?
A Not in the case of the Michael Jackson tour.
Q So that's a yes, correct?
A No, sir. I mean, that's not necessarily a yes, but in the case of Michael Jackson.
Q Well sir, do you know Dr. Finkelstein?
A Yes.
Q Is he an honest person?
A Yes.
Q Have you known him for many, many years?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And would you dispute Dr. Finkelstein if he said you were aware that
Michael Jackson had pain and prescription drug problems before the Dangerous Tour was
over?
A Um, I was aware on two occasions that he was taking painkillers, but I wasn't
aware that there were problems.
Q Okay, sir. I'm going to re-ask the question again, okay? If you don't understand it,
please let me know, okay? All right.
I want you to assume that Dr. Finkelstein has testified under oath and will testify under
oath that you were aware that Michael Jackson had a problem with painkillers and
medications prior to the Dangerous Tour being canceled.
Did you understand that part of it, sir?
Putnam: Objection, your honor. Improper impeachment and improper
hypothetical.

Judge: Overruled.

Q Did you understand that?

A Please ask me again.

Panish: Okay. I'm sorry. Could i ask that it be read back?

(the question is read back)
A I didn't understand that Michael had a problem.
Q Sir, just asking if you just understood my question.
Judge: Why don't you re-ask it?
Panish: Sure.
Gongaware: I'm sorry. This is getting confusing.

Q Dr. Finkelstein is a long-time friend of yours, isn't he sir?
A Yes.
Q When did you last see him?
A Few months ago.
Q Was he at Coachella?

A Yes, sir. Coachella.

Q Coachella. Were you there?

A Yes.

Q That was in May, right?

A April, I think.

Q Did he work at the tour or at the concert?

A I don't think he was working at that one.

Q But he's worked for AEG before, hasn't he sir?

A For AEG, no. But he has occasionally treated artists.
Q Sir, I want you to assume -- you know what it means to assume something?
A I believe so.
Q Okay. I want you to assume that Dr. Finkelstein has testified under oath. Did you
know that he testified under oath in this case?
A I do know that he was deposed, yes.
Q Did he tell you that?
A I believe he did, yes.
Q Did you talk about his deposition with him?
A No.
Q What, he just said: Hey, oh by the way, I gave a deposition in the case?
A We were instructed not to discuss it.
Q Who instructed that to you?
A My attorneys.
Q Don't tell me which attorney told you. I don't want to know that.
But Dr. Finkelstein brought up on his own to you that he had given a deposition in this
case, is that right?
A I don't recall how it came up.
Q Well, you just told us, I thought -- just make sure I'm correct here. You spoke with
Dr. Finkelstein -- is it Finkelstein or Finkelstine?
A Finkelstein.
Q Finkelstein about his deposition, correct? That he had given his deposition?
A Just that he had given one.
Q So he came up to you and said: Hey, by the way, I just gave a deposition in your
case?
A He may have.

Q Do you remember?

A I don't remember specifically.

Q When did he tell you that?

A I don't recall.

Q How long ago was it?

A I don't recall.

Q A year ago?

A I don't think it's been a year since we've done the depositions, so it wouldn't have
been a year.
Q Well, how do you know when Dr. Finkelstein did his deposition?
A Actually, I don't.
Q Well, you just told us it hadn't been a year since he gave his deposition, didn't you
sir?
A It hasn't been a year since I gave mine, I believe.
Q I wasn't asking about yours. I was asking about Dr. Finkelstein.
A Okay. I don't know when he gave his deposition.
Q Okay. Well, when did you talk to him?
Judge: Overruled.
A I talk to him on and off. He's my doctor, among other things, and he's my friend.
So could you be more specific about when I talked to him and about what?
Q When he told you he had given a deposition, was that in the last year?
A Probably would have been, but I don't recall specifically when it was.
Q Where were you when he brought it up?
Judge: Overruled.
A I don't recall.
Q What did he say?
A I don't recall.
Q What did you say?
A I don't recall.
Q Did you tell him you're not allowed to talk about it?
A I may have, but I don't specifically remember.

Q You don't recall?

A I don't recall.

Q Now sir, what I was asking you was, I wanted you to assume that Dr. Finkelstein
testified in this case that you knew Michael Jackson had problems with prescription pain
pills and medications prior to the Dangerous Tour ending.
Do you understand that, sir?
A I understand that.
Q Do you dispute what Dr. Finkelstein, your doctor and friend, said that you told --
that you dispute what Dr. Finkelstein said?
A There were two occasions --
Q Sir --
A -- when Dr. Finkelstein during the tour told me that he had given Michael Jackson
painkillers. Once was after the cancellation in Bangkok, and he explained to me that
Michael had had surgery on his scalp and that he was -- it was painful, and he had given
him painkillers for that. That's when the cancellation happened. Then there was one other
time on the tour --
Q Sir, that wasn't the question.
Panish: I'm going to ask the witness be instructed to answer the question.
Judge: Yes. Listen to the question.
Q Sir, you didn't say that -- what you just said -- in your deposition under oath, did
you sir?
Putnam: Objection. Misstates the prior testimony.
Judge: Overruled.
A No, I didn't.
Q Sir, has something occurred that's refreshed -- Was your memory better about
these events when you gave your deposition in this case in June of 2012 than it is today?
A June of 2012? You got me there, sir.
Q You're right.
A Not following you.
Q You gave your deposition December 20
th
, 2012. You remember that, sir?
A I do.
Q Is your memory better today than it was about these events on December 20
th
,
2012?
A Well, I have had a chance to review all the documentation. I hadn't looked at
anything when I had my deposition, so I didn't really remember anything about it at the
time I did my deposition. So is my memory better today? Yes, because Ive had a chance
to review it.
Q And 6 meetings, at least, with your lawyers in the last 2 weeks?
A In reviewing all of the documents that you presented to me as well in the
deposition.
Q Sir, since your deposition, you said you'd had 20 meetings with your lawyers, is
that right?
A I don't think --

Putnam: objection. Misstates his --

Judge: Sustained. Didn't say 20.

Q How many meetings have you had since December with your lawyers to refresh
your recollection?
Putnam: Object as argumentative, and asked and answered, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
A How many meetings have i had -- ask it again, please.
Q Well, sure. How many meetings have you had with your lawyers since your
deposition?
A Well, I don't recall.
Q More than 10?
A Yeah, probably.
Q More than 20?
A I don't think so.
Q Between 10 and 20? Is that a fair estimate?
A yes. Not all of it was to review my deposition. A lot of it had to do with this case
itself.
Q Sir, let's go back to the question, which I have forgotten, but Ill remember it.
Dr. Finkelstein testified that you -- strike the question.
Panish: Could i ask that it be read back?

Judge: Yes. Okay. If you can find it.
Panish: So -- I apologize.
Q I want you to assume --
Judge: You want to re-ask it?
Panish: You have it? Let's go with what I said before.
Judge: She found it.
(the question is read back)
Panish: Ill rephrase.
Q Sir, I want you to assume Dr. Finkelstein said that you were aware of Michael
Jackson's problems with prescription medications and drugs prior to the end of the
Dangerous Tour. Do you dispute that?
Putnam: Objection. Improper impeachment.
Judge: I'm sorry. Restate the question.
Panish: Okay.
Judge: Let's just have it read back.
Panish: No. I can do it. It's okay.

Q Sir, I want you to assume Dr. Finkelstein testified under oath that you were aware
of Michael Jackson's problems with prescription drugs and pain medications prior to the
end of the Dangerous Tour. Do you dispute that?
Judge: Overruled.
A Well, I recall on two occasions Dr. Finkelstein telling me that --
Q Excuse me --
A -- Michael Jackson had taken painkillers, but I would dispute knowing that he had
a problem.
Q So the answer to the question is, yes, you dispute that Dr. Finkelstein was aware
and you were aware of a problem before the tour ended, correct?
Putnam: Objection. Compound.
Judge: Overruled.
A I don't know what Dr. Finkelstein was aware -- Finkelstein was aware of, but I
wasn't aware that there were problems.
Q Did you get a copy of Dr. Finkelstein's deposition to review in this case?
A No.
Q Have you reviewed anyone's depositions other than yourself?
A No.

Q Okay. Now, you knew Michael Jackson had 2 doctors with him on the Dangerous
Tour, didn't you sir?
A Yes.
Q And one of the doctors was a gentleman by the name of Dr. Forecast from
London, correct?
A That's right.
Q And Dr. Forecast was an anesthesiologist, wasn't he sir?
A I have no idea what he was.
Q Do you know what an anesthesiologist is, sir?
A Yes, sir.
Q And Dr. Finkelstein was also on the Dangerous Tour, correct?
A Yes. He was hired to take care of the band and crew.
Q Is that a yes, sir? Was he on the tour or not?
A Yes sir, he was on the tour.
Q Okay. And you know now Dr. Finkelstein's an addiction specialist, correct?
A He is now. He wasn't at the time. He was just a general practitioner at the time.
Q But he was on the tour, wasn't he?
A On the Dangerous Tour? Yes.
Q Okay. Now, let's talk about your friendship. The tour was in '92 and '93. How
many years before that had you been friends with this Dr. Finkelstein?
A I don't know the number, but many years.
Q 20?
A Would have been more like 10 or 15.
Q Okay. So if we go back, that would take us to either '82 or '77 that you'd been
friends with him at that time, correct?
A Yeah. Would be somewhere in there.
Q Okay. So that as of today, then, that would be 35 years you all have been friends?
A Something like that.
Q Well, you do social things together, don't you sir?
A Occasionally.
Q You go skiing together?
A Occasionally.
Q And Dr. Finkelstein's brother used to work with you, didn't he sir?
A He worked for Management 3.
Q Did he work with you, sir?
A On 1 or 2 occasions, I believe I did work with him.
Q So is that a yes?
A Yes, sir.
Q And sir, did Dr. Finkelstein tell you that during the Dangerous Tour -- about
Michael Jacksons opiate addiction?
A No, sir.
Q Now I want to go to your -- first let's go to deposition. I want to start with that.
(Panish plays video clip of Gongaware deposition):
Q Did you ever talk to Dr. Finkelstein about whether he treated Michael
Jackson on the Dangerous Tour?
A He wouldn't talk about that stuff.
Panish: That was your testimony under oath in this case, right sir?
Gongaware: Yes, sir.
Q And did you tell the truth in your deposition, sir?
A Yes, sir.
Putnam: Your honor, that --
Judge: Hold on. There's an objection.
Putnam: That's been corrected. There was a corrected portion.
Panish: Ill get to that.
Putnam: I'm supposed to read it at --
Panish: No, no, you're not. That's not how it works.
Stebbins: Your honor, the rule in corrected testimony is that it is read as soon as the
testimony is completed. He can then testify about it.
Panish: That's not the rule. There's no such rule. Let's see the rule. Let's look at it.
Judge: Let's go to sidebar.
Sidebar:
Judge: Okay.
Panish: Okay. I'm going to impeach him now with his change. Counsel said there's a rule
that allows that. There is no such rule. What rule is that?
Stebbins: I don't know the rule offhand. The rule is that when you correct testimony,
your corrected testimony is your testimony. In every trial Ive ever been in Ive had it
always read promptly after because it is the testimony. In other words, what was said at
the deposition is no longer the testimony.
Counsel, of course, is free to question on it, but it is -- the testimony is the correction, the
errata is the testimony. So it should be read immediately after, not as -- in every
experience Ive ever had, because it is in fact the testimony. And then counsel, obviously,
can ask whatever question he wants on it.
Judge: Okay. So your objection is he should -- Plaintiffs' counsel should --
Stebbins: If there's corrected testimony, your honor, that errata should be read
immediately after the playing of testimony.
Judge: Okay.
Stebbins: And then ask whatever questions he wants and go to town on it.
Panish: I'm going to read it.
Judge: All right. He said he's going to read it.
Stebbins: Yes, your honor. It has to be read immediately, not prior to being questioned on
it.
Panish: There's no rule that says that, your honor.
Judge: Well, I'm going to require it in the interest of fairness, okay? Read it right
afterwards.
Panish: Let Mr. Putnam stand up and read it, and then Ill question him about it.
Judge: All right. Mr. Putnam, read it when --
Stebbins: when the juror is back from the bathroom.
Judge: Yeah.
(open court resumes)
Judge: Okay. Let's continue.

Panish: Okay, your honor. So to make it clear, I'm going to play this, and then counsel
can read whatever he wants to read. So let's go back and play that so we can make the
change.
Judge: Just so it's clear, counsel for Plaintiffs is going to play the deposition testimony,
and counsel for Defendants is going to read the correction that was made after the
deposition to the deposition.
Q Did you ever talk to Dr. Finkelstein about whether he treated Michael
Jackson on the Dangerous Tour?
A He wouldn't talk about that stuff.
Putnam: The correction is: Yes, he said he occasionally treated Michael Jackson on the
Dangerous Tour.
Panish: okay. And i'd like to mark that. And I want to question the witness about that.
Q Sir, what was the date of your deposition? Do you remember?
A I don't.
Q December 20, 2012, okay? I'm just telling you that. You can accept that.
A I'll take your word for it.
Q Okay. Now sir, I'd like to show you -- by the way, did you write in your
deposition any changes?

A Did I -- did I write?
Q Yes. Like the instructions that you were given to write any changes that you had
in the deposition. Did you do that, sir?
A I discussed it with my attorney. I believe my attorney wrote them.
Q Okay. Well, let's look at it. Let's look at exhibit, okay?
Judge: I'm sorry. Counsel, did you just add that to your exhibit list?
Panish: It's attached to his deposition.
Judge: No, but what I'm saying is, this is now a trial exhibit?
Panish: Yes, your honor, that counsel brought.
Judge: Okay.
(Panish has the exhibit -- a letter with deposition corrections -- marked for
identification)
Q Now, this -- have you ever seen this letter, sir?
A Can I have a copy of it?
Q You certainly can. (gives Gongaware a copy).
A (reading document)
Q Have you ever seen that letter before?
A Yes.
Q Okay. When did you see it?

A I don't recall specifically when I saw it.
Q Okay. How about a year? Did you see it in 2013?
A Probably.
Q Okay. Well, let's look. First, this is written by OMelveny & Myers. Are those
your lawyers?
A Yes.
Q And it's addressed to Plaintiffs' counsel. And sir, your deposition was taken on
December 20
th
, and then on June 12
th
your lawyer wrote changes to your deposition,
correct?
Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation about June 12
th
.
Judge: Okay. Sustained.
Q Okay. Well, it says here: Paul gongaware has reviewed his deposition taken on
June 12
th
, 2012.
Is that when your deposition was taken, sir?
A It was in December.
Q Did you review this to see whether it was true?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And did you -- you made these changes after having meetings with your
lawyers, correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you sign these changes at any time, sir?
A I don't recall.
Q Well, let's look at the last page to see who signed these changes.
Panish: Go to the page before that.
Q Who signed these changes for you, sir?
A My lawyer. But according to this, there's -- my signature page is enclosed, so I
must have signed it as well.
Q Did you ever write out the changes yourself, sir, at any time?
A No. I discussed it with my lawyer.
Q My question was, did you ever write them out and say: I change this, I change
this, I change that?
Did you ever do that, sir?
Judge: Overruled.
A I don't recall doing that.
Q How many times did you read your deposition before you changed it?
A Once.
Q And where were you when you read your deposition?
A I don't recall.
Q When you read it, did you write out any changes you wanted to make and bring
them to your lawyer?
A I don't recall doing that.
Q Okay. So now it's your testimony under oath that Mr. -- or, excuse me -- Dr.
Finkelstein did tell you about Michael Jackson and him treating him, correct?
Judge: Overruled.
A He did tell me he treated him on 2 occasions.
Q But in your deposition under oath, you said he told you, no, and he would never
talk about that, correct?
A I said he didn't talk about that.
Judge: Overruled.
Q Sir, you understood when you gave your deposition, you were under oath, the
same as you are on this witness stand, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you told me earlier, you told the truth in your deposition, right?
A I did.
Q Now sir, was it a big deal for AEG Live to get Michael Jackson to do this tour?
A I'd say so, yes.
Q Well, had you ever had a bigger artist doing a tour at that time, 2009?
A Probably not.
Q Okay. Well sir, you testified under oath that Michael Jackson was the biggest artist
of his era, correct?
A I believe he was.
Q And you also said that he could have been the biggest artist of all time, correct?
A I believe he was.
Q So was that a big deal, to get the biggest artist of his era, and the biggest artist of
all time, to come with your company?
A Yes, it was. I believe I just said that.
Q And sir, wasn't Live Nation at the time the No. 1 concert promoter in the world?
A They still are.
Q Have you or Mr. Phillips, to your knowledge, ever referred to them as the 800-
pound gorilla that you're trying to catch?
A I never referred to them as that.
Q Have you heard Mr. Phillips refer to them as that?
A No.
Q Okay. Sir now, to get Michael Jackson, you weren't always honest with him, were
you sir?
A I believe I always was.
Q You were always honest with Michael Jackson when trying to get him to sign the
contract, correct?
A Yeah, I believe I was.
Q Okay. Let's look at exhibit -- a September 26
th
, 2008 e-mail. (gives a copy)
Q When you're ready, tell me, Mr. Gongaware.
Panish: I don't think this is in evidence, your honor, so I won't put this up.
A Yes, sir.
Q You read it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You read that with the lawyers preparing to testify here, didn't you sir?
A I don't recall this one.
Q Well, you said you reviewed all the documents that were shown to you in your
deposition, didn't you sir?
A Yeah.
Q And this was shown to you in your deposition under oath, wasn't it sir?
A There's a bunch of stuff in the back here I've never seen before.
Q All right. Well, let's start with the deposition. Pages 165 to 167.
A I don't see those numbers on here, sir.

Q What's that?

A I don't see those numbers on here.

Q They're not.

A Oh, okay.

Q Okay. Sir, so turning to the 2
nd
page, the e-mail that says from Paul
Gongaware to Randy Phillips and Tim --
Panish: This is the same exhibit, 31-1 through 31-7, just for clarity. And if you want to
follow along in your exhibit, you can sir.
Putnam: He just said: the same exhibit. It's not the same. The pages --
Mr. Panish: I said the deposition numbers were not on the exhibit, because they're
not.
Judge: Okay. Hold on. Let's just verify it's the same exhibit we're referring to.
Panish: It is.
You know what? Do we have Mr. Gongaware's deposition here?
Stebbins: The depo is a shorter version.
Q Okay, Mr. Gongaware. Was that your deposition? (shows document)
You don't need to read the whole thing. That's okay.
A (reading document) Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Now, are these the exhibits? Remember the exhibits you read with the
lawyers preparing? Remember that, sir?
A Yes.
Q I'm not trying to get in your space, okay?
Panish: What exhibit number is it to the depo?
Boyle: 31.
Panish: To the depo?

Boyle: I believe so. Oh, to the depo? 10 to the depo. To the trial -- exhibit 31.
Q Now, can you confirm for us, Mr. Gongaware, is that the exhibit you were shown
at your deposition?
A Yes.
Panish: Okay. Now can we play it.
Putnam: Excuse me. Are you saying that the two exhibits, the one he's just given
you, and the one in there has the attachment on the end?
Gongaware: No. This one isn't the same as that one.
Putnam: The question he just asked is whether that was his exhibit at the depo he
looked at. It's not the same.
Panish: It's the same first two pages. That's all I'm asking about at this time.
Judge: Okay. The first two pages are the same. Let's go with that.
Putnam: Thank you, your honor.
Panish: let's hear what you said about it under oath at your deposition.
Q So turning to the second page, the e-mail that says from Paul Gongaware to
Randy Phillips and Tim Leiweke, cc John Meglen.
Do you see that?
A Yes.
Q And this e-mail appeared to be sent on Friday, September 26
th
, at 10:07 -- I'm
sorry. Friday, September 26
th
, 2008, at 10:07 pm, correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you send this e-mail?
A I don't recall writing this.
Q Well, in reading it, does it refresh your recollection about the content of the e-
mail?
A Not really.
Q Okay. Now, let's go down to the 1, 2, 3 -- the third -- the third paragraph, the
last sentence of the third paragraph of your e-mail.
It says: Net to Mikey, 132 Million.
Do you see that?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And do you know the difference between net and gross?
A Sure.
Q What's the difference?
A Gross is gross revenues. Net is what's left after all the expenses are paid.
Q So gross is the top-line number that comes in, and then net is what's left over
after stuff is paid out, right?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Then let's go to the fourth paragraph. And you ostensibly wrote in this
e-mail:
It's a big number, but this is not a number MJ will want to hear. He thinks he is so
much bigger than that. If we use show income, it's over a quarter of a billion dollars.
His net share works out to be 50% after local, venue and advertising costs, which is
quite good. His gross will approach half a billion dollars. Maybe gross is a better
number to throw around if we need to use numbers with Mikey listening.
Did I read that correctly?
A Yes.
Q So in this e-mail in 2008, were you making a plan with Randy Phillips and
Tim Leiweke and John Meglen, at least, on a cc basis, to fool Michael into thinking
he was going to make more money than he really was on the tour?
A I don't know. I don't recall writing this e-mail.
Putnam: And, your honor, there's a correction to that.
Judge: Okay. If there's a correction --
Putnam: It says --
Judge: You need to speak up.
Putnam: Sorry. I never tried -- where am i? -- I never tried to fool Michael. However, I
don't recall writing this e-mail.
Q So sir, once again, after you testified under oath in December, you met with your
lawyer, your lawyer wrote up some changes, signed them and sent them out, correct?
Putnam: Objection. Misstates the testimony, your honor.
Judge: Sustained.
Q Sir, did you ever write out any changes to your deposition?
A I don't recall writing out changes.
Q Do you know anyone that wrote out any changes to your deposition other than
your lawyer?
A No.
Q So after your deposition was taken, you met with your lawyer, correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you meet -- read the deposition before you went to the lawyer's office to meet
with them?
A Yes.
Q So when you had read it, did you make any notes -- write down notes of what you
wanted to correct?
A I just tried to remember the things that I didn't agree with.
Q Sir --
A I didn't write any notes.
Q Okay. So you just remembered -- you have a really good memory, right?
A It's all right.
Q So you remembered all of the changes that you wanted to change, and you went to
the lawyer, right?
A Yes.
Q And then the lawyer wrote all of the changes, signed the letter, and sent it out for
you, right?
A I believe I also signed it.
Q Okay. How many pages was your deposition, sir?
A Couple hundred.
Q And how many hours did it last for?

A All day.
Q And then you remembered in your mind, without taking any notes, every portion
of that deposition that was inaccurate before you went to meet with the lawyers, right?
A The stuff that I remembered, yes.
Q Well, no. Every change was your change, not the lawyer's, right?
A Yes.
Q So you remembered all those in your mind. After reading it, you kept it up in your
mind, and you went and told your lawyers: These are the changes I want to make. Right?
A Yes.
Q Never wrote it down anywhere, right?
A No.
Q So you have a very good memory, is that right sir?
A It's all right.
Q But you don't remember many of these e-mails that you wrote, do you sir?
A No. Those e-mails were -- I'd written those e-mails 3 1/2 years before, and I was
doing hundreds of e-mails a day. So I didn't try to refresh my memory when I went to the
deposition. I just went in and testified about what I actually remembered.
Q Sir, you spent two days with your lawyers preparing for the deposition before you
went to it, didn't you sir?
A I don't think I spent that kind of time preparing, no.
Q Tell us what you recall as to how long you spent preparing with your lawyers for
your deposition under oath in this case, sir.
A I don't recall specifically. It was just a couple of times for a couple hours.
Q Okay. So now is a couple 2, 3? How many times?
A I don't recall specifically how many times.
Q Okay. So you don't recall how many times you met. How many hours did you
meet for each time?
A A couple hours.
Q So what's a couple? Two or three?
A Yeah. Couple is -- I would say two is a couple.
Q Okay. So you met for four hours with your lawyers, at least, right?
A That's my recollection.
Q Now sir, I want to go to that e-mail, No. 31-1, the first page.
First of all, Mr. Leiweke who you sent that e-mail to -- he was the CEO of AEG, right?
A Yes.
Q And Mr. Meglen was the Co-CEO. With you of your division of AEG, right?
A Yes.
Q And Mr. Phillips was the CEO of AEG Live, right?
A Yes.
Q So would you consider that the top management of the company that you were
sending this e-mail to?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Let's look at the first paragraph. You said:
We play out 02 London. Who knows? 30 shows, maybe. Then go play out Berlin and
other European centers, as many as we can get. Take a break, ship the gear by sea freight
(cheapest way), then play out the next continent. We'll be all arenas in America, Europe,
Australia stadiums in some places where it makes sense. We finish in America.
Did you write that, sir?
A I believe I did, sir.
Q Was that part of the initial plan for the Michael Jackson tour?
A Well, this was long before we signed a deal with Michael. This was a potential
plan of how this could work.

Q Okay. And then it says -- you refer here to Mr. Anschutz.
Panish: Go back. Go up a little more.
Q You see it, sir? Page 1, 31-1.
A I see it.
Q Mr. Anschutz was a good friend with Mr. Tom Barrack, correct?
Judge: Overruled.
A I have no idea.
Q Okay. Did Mr. Barrack -- well, did you write here -- let's look at the first thing.
Mr. Leiweke, he is the CEO, right -- of everything?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Let's go -- let's move through that.
Now sir, the next point I want to show you. Sir, exhibit 2270.
Panish: That's a different one than that.
Q Is that an e-mail that you sent, sir? (shows email)
Q How you doing, Mr. Gongaware?
A Reading it now, sir.
Q I just asked you if you sent it.
Judge: Let him read it.
Panish: Okay. All right.
Q Go ahead.
A Okay, sir.
Q Did you read it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you send it?
A I don't recall sending it, but i probably did, yeah.
Q Well, it's got your name on it, doesn't it?
A Yes.
Q Have you experienced problems with people -- identity theft? People stealing
your e-mails and sending out e-mails under your name?
A No. Not yet, anyway.
Panish: Let's put it up.
Q Now, this is an e-mail from you to Mr. Phillips, the CEO of AEG Live, right?
A Yes.
Q And this is where you want to try to recruit Mr. Jackson over to AEG Live and not
let Live Nation get this tour, because it's a big deal, right?
Judge: Overruled.
A I don't think it's a question of a competition in that sense. I'm just talking about
what we would do, and how we should do it. I did mention Live Nation.
Q Well, you said: We need to start at the fundamentals. How do we do it versus how
does Live Nation do it.
Is that right, sir?
A Yeah.
Q And that's so you could try to get Mr. Jackson to do this, because you told us this
could be the biggest star ever that you could get, and that was a big deal, right?
A It was a big deal.
Q And you're reading notes from a meeting with Dr. Tohme, right?
Judge: Overruled.
A Yes.
Q And you took the notes at the meeting, didn't you sir?
A I don't recall taking notes.

Q It says: Notes for Dr. Tohme meeting.
Did I read that right, sir?
A Yes, you did.
Q These are your notes to prepare for the meeting with Dr. Tohme, aren't they sir?
A Yeah, I guess so.
Q You guess so. They are.
A To me it's not really clear if this is a preparation for the meeting or these are notes
after we had already discussed it.
Q Okay. It's not your shopping list, is it?
Putnam: Objection. Argumentative, your honor.
Judge: Sustained.
Q These are your notes for a meeting, okay, and you can't tell us, again, whether it
was before the meeting or after the meeting, right?
A I can't tell from this.
Q Don't you usually write, when it's about the meeting: Notes from Dr. Tohme
meeting -- not: Notes for Dr. Tohme meeting?
A I don't -- I'm not clear, sir, on whether -- what this was, whether it's before or after,
but -- please.
Q Sir, when you write something, you say: this is for something -- or: this is from.
For means in the future. From means in the past, right?

Judge: Overruled.
A I don't know -- I'm not sure. If you're asking me if I'm sure, I'm not sure.
Q Okay. Let's take a look. -- Okay. Let's see what you wrote out:
We are -- excuse me.
The difference between Live Nation -- which is what in means, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q (continues reading) -- and us is huge. We are artist-based, they are Wall Street
driven.
Right? Did I read that right?
A Yes.
Q This is one of the fundamentals that you're starting at, right?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Let's look at the next one:
(continues reading) -- We are smart people. We are completely honest and transparent
with everything we do. That's how Phil wants it.
That's Mr. Anschutz, right?
A I believe so, yes.
Q So if you were misleading anyone, making any misstatements to anyone, that
wouldn't be honest and transparent, would it sir?
A No.
Q And that would be contrary to what the goals are supposed to be for your
company, correct?
A Yes.
Q For example, you would never tell someone that was concerned about Mr.
Jackson's health: Hey, don't worry. We check everyone out -- if that wasn't true, would
you sir?
Judge: Overruled.
A We wouldn't want to say anything that wasn't true.
Q Right. Because you're not being transparent and honest, and that's improper, isn't
it sir?
A We try to be honest and transparent in our business.
Q But if you're not, then that's bad business, and that's inappropriate, isn't it sir?
A It would be.

Q Pardon me?

A It would be.

Q Thank you.
Now sir, let's go on. We -- who is we in the sentence? -- have lived his last 2 major tours.
Is that you and Mr. Phillips?
A It's me. I don't think Randy participated in the last two tours.
Q Okay. Well, we is not I. It says we.
Is that being honest?
A I think it's honest.
Q Okay. Who is the we in that sentence?
A It's me.
Q So it should say I, shouldn't it sir?
A Well, perhaps.
Q If you're going to be totally transparent and honest -- it should say I, shouldn't it
sir?
A Perhaps, yes.
Q Perhaps? Tell us, who are the we in that sentence?
Judge: Overruled.
A It's me.
Q (continues reading) -- have lived his last 2 major tours. We know the history.
Who is the we in that sentence, sir?
A Well, I think a lot of us knew the history.
Q So that means AEG, doesn't it sir?
Q So AEG knew the history of Michael Jackson's tours, right sir?
A Yes. I believe so.

Q And AEG also knew the problems, didn't they sir?

A Yes.
Q And the idiosyncrasies, correct?

A Yeah. I believe so.

Q And one of the problems was the use of prescription drugs and painkillers, wasn't
it sir?
A That turned out to be a problem on the Dangerous Tour, but it was not a problem
on the History Tour.
Q Sir -- we know the problems -- meaning AEG, included prior use of pain
medication and opiate addiction, correct sir?
A I don't know how to classify opiates, but he did admit that he had a problem with
painkillers.
Q And AEG knew that as of December 1
st
, 2008, when you told everyone: We know
the problems.
You were being honest and transparent, weren't you, sir?
A Yes.
Putnam: Objection. Misstates the testimony, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
Q (continues reading) We -- AEG -- will not overestimate his power and
potential, and we will not make mistakes that could cost him his career as the ultimate
artist.


A No, sir. You had one too many we's in there.

Q All right. I'm sorry. Let me start over.

(reading) -- We -- AEG -- will not overestimate his potential -- power and
potential.

Did I read that right?

Putnam: Objection. Misstates the testimony. Doesn't say: AEG.
Judge: Okay. Read it literally.
Q Why don't we do this? Why don't you read it for me? Since you wrote it, why
don't you read it?
A (reads document) -- We will not overestimate his power and potential and will
not make mistakes that could cost him his career as the ultimate artist. We will maximize
it.
Q Okay. Why don't you read the first two sentences, also? We need -- oh, I'm
sorry.
Now sir, -- We will not overestimate.
That's AEG, right?
A Yes.
Q And you and the CEO are discussing this, right?
A Yes.
Q And you won't make any mistakes that could cost him his life. You didn't want to
do that, did you sir?
Judge: Overruled.
A I was referring to his career. We don't want to make any mistakes that would cost
him his career.
Q Well, if it cost him his life, that costs him his career, doesn't it sir?

A It would.
Q All right. And you, being transparent and honest, would never want to tell anyone
that's concerned about Michael Jackson's health: Hey, this doctor's okay, successful,
because we check everyone out -- would you sir?
Judge: Overruled.
A Could I have that again, please?
Panish: Sure.
(the question was read back)
A We would always want to be transparent and honest.
Q But when you say something like, for example: This doctor's successful, and we
check everyone out -- if you didn't know that, and you didn't check him out, that wouldn't
be transparent or honest, would it sir?
Putnam: Objection, your honor. Again, it lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A We endeavor always to be transparent and honest.
Q But if you say something -- well, first of all, isn't the artist's health the most
important thing for the concert?
A I believe it is.
Q If you don't have the artist, you have no concert, right?
A That's right.
Q And if Michael Jackson's unhealthy and can't perform, there's no concert, right?
A That's right.
Q And if Michael Jackson has a doctor that is giving him prescription medications
and doing things that could jeopardize his health, that's bad, isn't it sir?
Putnam: Improper hypothetical.
Judge: I'm sorry?
Putnam: Improper hypothetical.
Judge: Overruled.
A It's bad if anyone is giving him drugs.
Q Do you know why Mr. Phillips told Mr. Ortega that: We check everyone out --
referring to Dr. Murray?
A I have no idea.
Q But you know you never checked him out, don't you sir?
A You mean Dr. Murray?
Q Yeah.
A I believe we did check him out.
Q Oh, you did? Checked out his background and qualifications, and everything like
that?
A No, we didn't do that. When we check out someone, we check out -- we either
rely on if we know the person, or if they're known in the industry, or if they're
recommended by the artist. And in this case, Dr. Murray was recommended by the artist.
In fact, the artist insisted.
Q Sir, you didn't say that in your deposition, did you sir?
A I don't recall.
Q Okay. Well, let's play it. Let me find it.
Your testimony here today is that you did check out Dr. Murray, correct? Is that a yes, sir?
A Well, yes.
Q Okay. Fair enough. Let me find your testimony here.
Panish: Okay. That will be page 138 to139. Let's see what you said in your deposition,
sir.
Q Have you learned since that time that anybody at AEG Live ever conducted
any sort of background check into Dr. Murray?
A I don't know of anybody that did.
Q And does that concern you in any way?
A No.
Q Do you think Randy Phillips conducted a background check into Dr.
Murray?
A I don't know.
Q Is it your answer you don't know, or you don't think he did?
A I don't know if he did or not.
Q But you have no information that he did, correct?
A That's correct.
Q Did you ever see an investigation report on Dr. Murray?
A No.
Q Now sir, did you change that portion of your deposition?
A No.
Q Now, sir --
Panish: Are we taking a break or you going straight through?
Judge: No. We're going -- we started at 10:00.
Panish: Okay. I just wanted to know.
Q All right. Let me show you sir, exhibit 638, which is also exhibit 18 to your
deposition. So if you want to pull that deposition out, you'll have a copy right there for
you. Exhibit 638.
Do you have that, Mr. Gongaware?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Did you send that e-mail, or did you receive that e-mail?
Q If it helps -- you ready?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Let's look at that. I'd like to go first to the top.
Is that you, sir, writing that e-mail?
A Yes.
Q Okay. You don't remember writing this e-mail, I suppose?
A I don't remember this one.
Q Okay. And this one -- the subject you wrote in there: Michael Jackson dates O2.
Right?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And David Campbell and Jessica Koravos. Did I pronounce that right?
A Koravos, right.
Q And they're people that work for AEG in the United Kingdom, right?
A Yes.
Q And what do they do for AEG?
A David ran the O2 complex, including the O2 Arena. And Jessica ran AEG Live
Europe. Or AEG Live London, anyway.
Q And AEG owned the O2 Arena, right?
A Yes.
Q So when concerts were done there at O2, do they get money, AEG?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So, in other words, is there some -- when you're an artist, and you're
booking an artist at an arena like the O2, do you make an arena arrangement?
A I don't know what you mean by arrangement. We do make a deal with the arena,
yes.
Q And when you make a deal with the arena, that means you have to pay them to
use the arena?
A In this case we weren't paying any rent on the O2, we were only paying actual
costs.
Q Because you owned it?
A Because Michael Jackson was of the stature that he could demand to not have to
pay rent in the arena.
Q Well sir, do normally artists pay rent to use the arena if you own it?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Let's go to the last paragraph. This is now on the date -- I'm sorry --January
5
th
, 2009.
Am I right on that, sir?
A Yes.
Q And you want to advise everyone -- again, these are all top management people of
the company?

A In Europe, yes.

Q Well, Mr. Phillips is here in the US, isn't he?

A Well, yes. He's cc'd.

Q And Mr. Meglen?

A Yes.

Q And you want to tell them that: We seem to be at or near the final draft of the
contract. Right?

A Right.

Q (continues reading) -- although it's not going as fast as we would all like, the idea
is to get it done any way we can.


A Yes.

Q So on January 5
th
, right after the New Year, you're saying: We want to get this
done any way we can. Right?
A Yes.
Q Because it was very important to your company to get this done, wasn't it?
A Yeah, it was.

Q Any way you could, right?

A Yes.

Q Now, let's go up to the paragraph above that, because I asked you earlier about the
Bad Tour, and your lawyer objected. So I want to ask you, did you know about the
Bad Tour, sir?
A I did know about it. I wasn't on it.
Q No. That wasn't my question. The question I was asking you is what you knew
about the Bad Tour earlier. You know all about the Bad Tour, don't you sir?
A No. I don't know all about it.
Q Okay. Well, tell me -- Wembley stadium, where is that located?
A London.
Q That's where they play the soccer matches, right?
A Yes.
Q Where they had the Olympics, right?
A I don't know.
Q It just happened. You didn't follow the Olympics?
A I don't recall the venues.
Q Wembley Stadium is that the biggest venue in the United Kingdom, or stadium?
A It's the biggest one in London, but I'm not sure of the UK.
Q Which one is bigger?
A Don't know. I don't know all the stadiums in the UK.
Q You don't know any bigger, do you?
A I don't know any bigger ones, but I don't know them all.
Q But you're here telling everyone in the management that on the Bad Tour, Michael
Jackson sold out ten wembley stadiums at 75,000 per night, which would equal 750,000
people, right?

A Yes.

Q And that's a pretty big deal, isn't it sir?

A Huge.

Q Huge. Exactly. And you didn't know how much this thing would sell out -- the
O2, right? You didn't know for sure. You thought you knew, but you didn't know for sure,
right?
A Nobody knows until you do it. It's up to the public to decide.
Q The public had a pretty resounding answer, didn't they sir?
A They did.
Q In 2 hours, how many tickets were sold for the O2 Arena for Michael Jackson?
A Well, over the course of -- I don't know about 2 hours, but over -- over 2 hours,
we sold -- in the initial presale, we sold 31 shows. I don't know if it was 2 hours, but in a
very short period of time.
Q Fastest you'd ever seen it, isn't it sir?
A Yes, it was.
Q Never seen anything like it in your career, in the history of your career, right?
A That's right.
Q It was hot, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you didn't know how many shows you could get Mikey to do, did you sir?
A No one knew.
Q But you were telling people: We don't know how many shows we can get Mikey
to do. Right?
A I'm not sure what you're referring to. I don't remember that specific.
Q Well, let's look at the e-mail you wrote, sir. You just read it. First paragraph.
A Well, it's -- I'm referring to no one knows how many shows we can get. It doesn't
refer to how many we can get Michael to do. It's how many we could get out of this
situation.
Q All right. Sir, Mikey" -- that's just a nice name when you refer to Mr. Jackson,
right? Mikey?
A It's one of the names I used, yeah.
Q Did you ever refer to him like that in front of people?
A Yeah, I think so.
Q Who? Who was present when you referred to him as Mikey in the public?
A I don't know. It's over many years. I called him Mikey occasionally.
Q Occasionally?
A Yes.
Q But you referred to him a lot in e-mails as Mikey, don't you sir?
A I don't know what a lot is.
Q Well, the e-mail -- the net versus gross -- you kept calling him Mikey in that one,
right?
A I also called him MJ in that one, I believe. But yes, I called him Mikey in that.
Panish: Let's look at exhibit 638-40.
Q It's in your deposition as -- let me help you, if you'd like.

A Please.
Q All right. You're welcome, by the way. Let me just give you a copy for you
because they're all over the place.
Panish: Do you have a copy of that?
Boyle: It's the wrong exhibit number for that. That's the problem.
Panish: Okay. Not doing so good.
Boyle: it's not your fault. 90.
Stebbins: What's the actual?
Panish: 638-90. Is that it?
Boyle: Yes.
Stebbins: Thank you.
Panish: 90. Okay.
Q Okay. I found it. Here you go. (gives a copy)
A Okay. (reading document)
Q Okay. When you're ready, let me know, Mr. Gongaware.
A Yes, sir.

Q Okay. You ready?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Did you write that e-mail?

A Yes.

Panish: Let's put that up.

Q So you remember writing that email, right?
A I don't remember writing it, but I do remember reviewing it.
Q Okay. Once again, sending it to the Co-CEO of your company and to the CEO of
AEG Live, right?
A Yes.
Q And you're responding to Mr. Phillips about print ad + copy, right?
A Which part of the email are you referring to?
Q Subject: print ad + copy.
A Yes.
Q Did you write that?
A I believe I did.

Q Okay. Read the first paragraph for us?

A On the top of the email?

Q Randy -- yeah. This is the one you wrote. Randy.
A (reads email) -- To answer your question, my fucking head is totally into all of
this. Every detail. I let go of CW when Tim gave me the word. If you want to keep it
going, do it.
I apologize for my language. I'm sorry.
Q Well, you use that quite often in emails, language like that, don't you sir?
A I don't know about quite often, but I did use it.
Q That's part of your normal vernacular, how you speak in the industry, right?
A When I'm speaking internally sometimes. I was referring to what Randy said
about it.
Q Well, he talks like that to you, too, and you talk back to him like that. That's how
you guys communicate, right?
A At times, yeah.
Q And sir, what is CW?
A Concerts West.
Q And Tim, is that Mr. Leiweke?
A Yes.
Q And the issue here was, whose name was going to be on the promotional
materials, right?
A That's one of the issues in this case.
Q Okay. In other words, they just want -- they, Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Phillips -- they
just wanted it to say AEG Live, correct?
A Right.
Q And you wanted your company, Concerts West, to have their name on it, correct?
A Concerts West was a division of AEG Live. It's sort of like John's and my label.
Q But you wanted your label promoted for your own benefit, didn't you sir?
A That was my preference.
Q Pardon me?
A That was my preference.

Q Right. Because -- do you have a deal where you get more money in certain
circumstances?
A No.
Q Do you have a participation agreement in any aspects of your business?
A No.
Q You didn't testify about that in your deposition?
A Well, I did have a -- at one time I did have a, I guess you'd call it -- I don't know
how you'd describe it. I did have a small piece of it. That's since been taken out.
Q But in 2009, you had a percentage, a piece of the action, didn't you sir?
A It was a very, very tiny piece of the overall company, AEG.
Q Sir, you --
A But it wasn't with AEG Live or anything that had to do with AEG Live. I didn't
get any more compensation for what I did with AEG Live.
Q But you had a piece of the big company, didn't you?
A Very tiny piece, yes.
Q And Mr. Anschutz was aware of that, wasn't he sir?
A Yes sir.
Q And did you negotiate that deal with Mr. Anschutz?
A No.
Q Mr. Black?
A No.
Q Who did you negotiate it with?
A Dan Beckerman.
Q Dan Beckerman who is now the CEO of AEG?

A He was the COO at the time, I believe.
Q And by the way, as far as scheduling of concerts and dates, who would be more
knowledgeable, you or Mr. Trell?
A On this particular?
Q Yes.
A I would be.
Q Okay. So let's look at it. It says -- this is your response. You write:
Meantime, our play here is to not back off. We are holding all of the risk.
Again, you're referring to AEG Live, is that right?
A Yes.
Q And our play means what we should do, right?
A Yes. That's what we should do here, yes.
Q All right. And then you say:
We -- AEG Live -- let Mikey know just what this will cost him.
A Yes.
Q So you're telling Mr. Phillips that AEG should tell Mikey what this is going to
cost him in terms of making money, right?
A Yes. We're referring to the press conference, I believe.
Q But you're going to tell him: Hey, this is going to affect how much money you
make. Right?
A Yes. People were aware at this point that there was going to be a press conference
--
Q Sir --
A -- and it would have -- if Michael would not have shown up at the press conference, it
would have cost him money.
Q Well, had you put the tickets on sale yet?

A No. Not at that point.

Q Okay. Then, sir, you say:

We cannot be forced -- well, why don't you read that?
Read those last two sentences for us, what you wrote there on February 27
th
, 2009, sir.
A (reads email) We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will try to do
because he's lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants.
Q So you were describing Mr. Jackson, who you believe to be lazy, right sir?
A Well, that would be a poor choice of words, but he really didn't like to rehearse.
He didn't like to do these kinds of things.
Q Sir, did you describe Mr. Jackson to the two CEOs as lazy? Yes or no?
A I did.
Q What did you mean by this paragraph, sir? Do you have a recollection of what
you meant?
A Yes, I believe I do. When we say we're holding all the risk, there wasn't really
much risk at all at this point. We hadn't spent any money. We hadn't taken on any risk at
this point.
And -- if Mikey wouldn't approve it, we'd go without his approval -- and I think I was
referring there to the advertising and promotional campaign.
Q Okay.
A So -- Dr. Tohme isn't on the plane, we'll go without him", that's just --
Q I'm on this paragraph right here. Okay. You're right.
Putnam: Your honor, can we let the witness --
Panish: Well sure, we'll let him finish.
Judge: Wait. He's referring to a portion not being asked about.

Stebbins: It's in the paragraph.
Q Go ahead. Tell us all --
Judge: Oh, yes. You're right. It's in the paragraph. Go ahead.
Q Go ahead. Keep telling us everything you remember what you wrote about that.
A (reading from email) -- Dr. Tohme is not on the plane, we go without him. My
money is on Dr. Tohme.
I think that was referring to what Randy had said earlier about whether Dr. Tohme would
be on the plane or not. And if he didn't go -- and people knew that Michael was going to
have a press conference, and they knew that there was going to be an announcement
about a tour. If he wouldn't have done that, it would have -- because of the situation in
London where they constantly referred to him as Wacko-Jacko, and all those other things
that were going on, if he wouldn't have shown up at the press conference, it would have
definitely affected his marketability and his ability to sell tickets.
Q Okay.
A (reading email) -- We can't be forced into stopping this -- which really refers to
our contract. We couldn't stop it. We were contractually obligated to do this.
And Michael, i'm sure he didn't want to do the press conference. He doesn't want to do
these kinds of things. He doesn't like doing it. But it was a necessary thing -- if we were
going to put him on sale -- for Michael Jackson to show up and let the world know he's
coming.
Q Anything else you want to explain about that, sir?
A Covers my recollection of it.
Q Okay. And that recollection, did you just get that when you met with your lawyers
to prepare for your testimony here?
A No. I got it when I started putting all of these pieces together and reviewing it and
trying to understand in context what was happening, and I did recall what was on my
mind.
Q Well, let's see what you testified to under oath, sir, on December 20
th
, 2009. You
admit you told the truth there? I'm sorry. 2012.
Let's look at what you said, sir, under oath, before these meetings with the lawyers on
page 178, line 15 -- to 179, line 7, okay?
Putnam: Just a second, your honor.
Q And then after the parenthetical, it says: We let Mikey know just what this
will cost him in terms of him making money, and then we go with or without him in
London.
Do you know what you meant when you wrote that?
A No.
Q And then you go on: We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will
try to do, because he is lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate
wants.
Do you know what you meant by that?
A No.
Q Now sir, you testified you didn't even remember writing this email under oath in
your deposition, isn't that right sir?
A That's right. I didn't remember.
Q And at this time, sir, you didn't have any cancelation or sickness insurance, did
you?
A At what time?
Q February 27
th
, when you wrote this email.
A I don't know. I don't know about insurance. Certainly don't know that fact.
Q Okay. Well sir, this is within one month of signing the agreement, isn't it sir?
A Yeah. Seven or eight weeks, yeah.
Q Seven or eight weeks? The agreement was signed when, sir?
A My recollection is early January, and this is late February.
Q Were you at the signing with Mr. Trell?
A Yes.
Q And you recall it to be early January?
A I'm not sure when it was.
Q So within -- I want you to assume that it was January 28
th
, sir, that the agreements
were signed. We've established that already, okay? I want you to assume that, all right?
A If that's the case, then it would be a month, yeah.
Q Within a month of signing the contract, you had serious concerns, didn't you sir?
A No.
Q And you weren't worried, right?
A No. I was never worried about it.
Q And you didn't say: To back off now would be a disaster for all of us -- did you,
sir?
A I did say that in there, but it would have been a disaster for Michael Jackson, for
sure. But for AEG Live, it wouldn't be a disaster, because at this time we had no
investment in it.
Q Okay, sir. So why don't you read that sentence where you said -- where is it? Is it
down further?
(reads email) -- To back off now would be a disaster for us.

Did you send this email to Michael Jackson, sir?
A No.
Q Did you send this email to any representative of michael jackson, sir?
A No.
Q Did you send this email to anyone other than AEG upper management, sir?
A No.
Q Did you refer it to anyone that it would be a disaster for us to back off now other
than Mr. Phillips and Mr. Meglen?
A That's who I sent it to.

Q Us means you, doesn't it sir?

A Also meant Michael Jackson, I think, in this case, because it would have been a
problem for him.
Q Okay. Did you say that in there, sir? Michael Jackson?
A No.
Q When you were saying we -- referring to AEG -- was that referring to Michael
Jackson?
A Which we are you referring to, sir?

Q Those other ones that we went through with you.

A I don't recall.
Q Okay. Let's look at exhibit 123-1 through 123-15, sir. And I'm going to focus on
the first page first, okay? (shows email)
A (reading document) If it's just the first page, I got it, sir.
Q Okay. Did you write that email, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
Panish: Let's put that up, please.
Q Now, this is four days before the email where you called Mr. Jackson lazy, right?
A I don't remember the date of that one.
Q I'm sorry. I didn't hear that.
A I don't remember the date of the earlier one.
Q February 27
th
. I just showed it to you.
A Yes, then it would be.
Q So this is four days before you were calling him lazy, right? Oh, I'm sorry. It's a
month after.
This is a month after the February 27
th
email, approximately.
A Okay. Yes, okay, you're right.
Q This was after you were calling him lazy, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. And were you trying to fool Mr. Jackson here as to how much he was
working, sir?
A No.
Q Okay. Well, let's look at it. Who is Kelly Distefano?
A At the time she was my assistant.
Q Okay. Did you write this to anyone other than your direct assistant?
A No.
Q Were you referring to the calendaring of the schedule of the events for Mr.
Jackson?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Why don't you read it for us? Well, first of all -- fixing the sizing for may.
That deals with the May calendar, correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And why don't you read for us what you wrote to your assistant, Kelly Di --
do you tell the truth to Kelly Distefano?
A Yes.

Q You're transparent and honest with her?

A Yes.
Q Okay. Why don't you read us what you wrote to her?

A (reads email) -- Fix the sizing for may. Change the color for the actual shows to
something -- like the first one you used, like a lite tan or something. I don't want the
shows to stand out so much when Michael looks at it. Less contrast between work and
off. Maybe off days in a contrasting soft color. Put 'off' in each day after July 8
th
as well.
Figure it out so it looks like he's not working so much.
Q So you were trying to make the schedule look to Michael Jackson like he wasn't
working so much, weren't you sir?
A Well, I didn't want him to misread it so he thought he was working more than he
was.
Q Sir, did you want to make the schedule for Mr. Jackson to look like he's not
working so much?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Because you were trying to fool him?
A No, I wasn't trying to fool him. I wanted to present it in the best possible light.
Q Did you say that -- that I want to present it in the best possible light? Did you
say that anywhere, sir?
A Not in this email, no.

Q Did you say it in any email?
A I don't know.
Q But you said you want Ms. Dipterans to figure it out so it looks like he -- and
that's Michael Jackson, right?
A I believe so.
Q not working so much.
Did I read that right; sir?
A Yes. I wanted to present it in the best possible light.
Q Okay. Well, let's see what you said under oath in your deposition about it, sir.
Panish: That's on page 188, line 21 -- to page 190, line 7. Hold on. Wait a minute.
Stop. They haven't had a chance to look at it first. Sorry.
Putnam: Well, for completeness, I would go to line 21, or I can do it.
Judge: Okay. Go ahead and play it.
Panish: Okay. Let's play it.
Q Let's go to the email that you wrote that's in the middle on the first page.
A Got it.
Q And first it says: Fix the sizing for May.
Then you wrote: Change the color for the actual shows to the -- something -- like
first one you used, like a lite tan or something. I don't want the shows to stand out so
much when MJ looks at it. Less contrast between work and off. Maybe off days in a
contrasting soft color. Put 'off' in each off day after July 8
th
as well. Figure it out so
it looks like he's not working so much.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And so in this email, you were instructing your assistant, Kelly
Distefano to make changes to the -- Michael's work calendar, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you were instructing her to make it so the calendar didn't appear to
Michael like he would be working so much, right?
A Yes.
Q Why were you doing that?
A I don't recall.
Q Were you trying to fool Michael into thinking he wouldn't be working so
much?
A No. It would be obvious when he was working and not working.
"Q But why -- why -- you specifically say: Figure it out so it would look like he's
not working so much.
Why would you do that?
A I don't remember.
Q Now, Mr. Gongaware, when you met with the lawyers and had the lawyers write
out the changes, did you change that to say you wanted to look in the best light possible?
A I don't recall that.
Q Sir, shortly after this email, as of January 25
th
, 2009, you -- AEG -- was
considering pulling the plug on the entire show, weren't you sir?
A I don't think that's the case, no.
Q Okay. Let's look at exhibit 130. March 25
th
, 2009 email. (shows a copy)

A Thank you. (reading document.) Got it.

Panish: Okay. Let's put it up.

Q Now, if we start -- let's see. There's one email at the top. Let's just look at that
real quick. And that's you receiving this email from Randy Phillips, correct?
A Which one are you referring to, sir?
Q The one that says: Paul Gongaware, 3-25-2009, 9:57:01, Fwd: Catch up, correct?
A Yeah. I got it.
Q Okay. And then at -- so you -- read to us what you wrote, sir. Or, excuse me. Read
us what Mr. Phillips wrote to you.
A (reads email) -- We need to pull the plug now. I will explain.
Q Did he explain that to you, sir?
A I don't recall.
Q And what did you say in response -- strike that.
You said that -- and then Mr. Phillips responded to you, right?
A Right.
Q And what did you say?
A I was referring to Kennys email, and I said: I'm not sure what to send back...
Q Okay. So let's look then --
Judge: It's a few more minutes before noon, just so you know.
Panish: Okay.
Q Mr. Phillips wanted to pull the plug, didn't he sir?
A I think what he was referring to was pull the plug on Karen Faye.
Q Did you say that in your deposition, sir?
A No. But after I reviewed this, I had a chance to look at it and think about it. I think
that's what he was referring to, because we never talked about pulling the plug on the
Michael Jackson tour. Not that I recall.
Q Sir, isn't it true that -- let's look at Mr. Ortega. And this is what Mr. Ortega is
reporting to you and Mr. Hougdahl, right -- about Ms. Faye?
A Yeah.

Q And Mr. Ortega is telling that: It's Ms. Faye's strong opinion that this is dangerous
and impractical with consideration to Michael Jackson's health and ability
to perform.

Correct?
A That's one of the things he said.

Q And then you wanted to pull the plug on her because she had a concern about
Michael Jacksons health, right?
A Well, I think Kenny wanted to pull the plug on her because of the way she
handled the situation and that -- you know, she tried to control access to Michael
Jackson. Kenny didn't like that.
Q You weren't there, were you sir?
A Where?
Q When this was written with Mr. Ortega.
A No. He wrote --

Q And Mr. Ortega, is he working for AEG?

A He's working for Michael Jackson.

Q Who was paying him?

A Michael Jackson was responsible for 95% of his salary.
Q Who was paying and writing the check to Mr. Ortega, sir?
A AEG would have done that.
Q And who was Mr. Ortega's contract with, sir?
A I'm not sure.
Q Mr. Hougdahl, what was his position?
A He was the production manager.
Q Okay. Was he at all the rehearsals?
A Yes, he was.
Q He would be someone you would think had a really good idea of seeing Mr.
Jackson whenever he was there, right?
A He would have known when Michael was there, yes.
Q And he would have seen him and observed him, wouldn't he sir?
A Sure.
Q A lot more than you would, wouldn't he sir?
A Oh, yeah. I didn't see the rehearsals that often.
Q And a lot more than Mr. Phillips would see him, ouldn't he sir?
A Yes, I believe so.
Q And Mr. Hougdahl, do you consider him to be an honest and trustworthy person?
A Yes.
Q So as early as March 25
th
, 2009, Ms. Faye was expressing a strong opinion about
Mr. Jackson's health and ability to perform, correct?

A That's what Mr. Hougdahl was saying, yes.
Q And then Mr. Phillips responded: We need to pull the plug now. Will explain.
Right?
A That's what it said, yes.
Panish: Okay. How is that, your honor? Is this a good time?
Judge: I think now's a good time. We'll see you at 1:30.
(lunch recess)
(afternoon session)
Continued Direct examination by Brian Panish:
Q Good afternoon, Mr. Gongaware.
A Hello.
Q You've got to speak up.
A Good afternoon.
Q Did you get to meet with the lawyers over the noon hour, sir?
A Well, we had lunch.
Q You didn't talk about the case?
A Not really.

Q So you sat there for an hour and a half and never talked about the case?

A No. They just said I was doing fine.

Q Okay. Anyone else have lunch with you?

A Yes.

Q Who?

A Shawn Trell.

Q Anyone else?

A There were some other attorneys present, as well.

Q Who else?

A Jessica, Matt, Tad.

Q Anyone else?

A One friend, Sharon Ferguson.

Q Sharon Ferguson, the blonde-haired woman sitting in the audience?

A Yes.
Q You brought her with you here today?

A She came with me, yes.

Q Okay. Now, sir, before the break, we talked about the email chain where one of the last
emails was "we're going to pull the plug -- " or "we need to pull the plug, Ill explain,"
something like that.

Do you remember that?

A Yes, sir.

Q and you told me how you remember that that referred to Ms. Faye, who had
complained about Mr. Jackson's health, correct?

Putnam: Objection. Misstates testimony.

Judge: Overruled.

Gongaware: I'm not -- could you ask it again, sir? I didn't -
Panish: Sure.

Q We were just talking about this email where you -- you now say you remember what
happened, and you said that Mr. Phillips pulling the plug was referring to Ms. Faye,
correct?

Putnam: Objection. Misstates testimony.

Judge: Overruled.

A I believe he was.

Q Okay. And your testimony also was Ms. Faye had thought that it would be dangerous
and impractical consideration for Michael Jackson's health and ability to perform to have
the shows and the schedule that had been set, correct?

A Yes, I believe Kenny did say that in his email, but I was also referring to what he told
me, which was he didn't really like Karen Faye there because she controlled access to
Michael.

Q Okay. And this is something that you just remembered here today? Or how long ago
did you remember this?

A Part of my review.

Q Okay. Well, sir, do you remember when you gave a deposition under oath in this case?

A Yes.

Q And, by the way, you swore to tell the truth in that deposition?

A I did.

Q And you said that there was no reason you couldn't give your best testimony there on
that day of December 20th, 2012. Do you remember that, sir?

A Well, I remember that I was supposed to talk about what I actually remembered.

Q Sir, do you remember being asked whether there was any reason -- you know, strike
that. Let's just play it. Let's start with this. Do you remember your lawyer trying to
suggest that you might have been sick?

A I do remember that.

Panish: Okay. Well, let's play 175-14, to 176, line 15, and let's see what you said at
your deposition about your ability to testify truthfully under oath.

(Panish plays video of Gongaware's deposition):

Q And, sir, I want to ask you, your counsel mentioned that you were
sick today. Are you feeling sick today?
A Im fine.
Q Are -- are you having any memory problems today?
A I don't think so.
Q Are you capable of giving your best testimony today?
Q Would it be -- would you remember more, perhaps, if we came back on a
different day?

A I don't think so.

Q So you're not sick today?

A Right.

Q So -- okay. I'm not trying to be rude. So you have no -- you have no
diagnosed condition with your memory?
A No.
Q So as far as -- as far as you're aware, your memory is fully functioning?
A Yeah, I believe so, sure.
Panish: Let's go back, sir, and see what your memory was on December 20th about that
email pulling the plug. And let's start at page 247, line 25 -- and let's just go right through
it to page 252, line 10, and let's see what you testified to on that day.

(Panish plays video of Gongawares deposition):

Q Okay, sir. It looks to me from looking at this exhibit that we first have,
starting about the mid -- midway down the first page, an email from Kenneth
Ortega to you,
Paul Gongaware, and John Hougdahl, is that correct?

A Hougdahl.

Q Hougdahl. Sorry.

A Yes.

Q And he's also known as Bugz?

A Yes.

Q And what was Mr. Hougdahl's role in the This Is It tour?

A He was the production manager.

Q And -- okay. Great. Now, Mr. Ortega starts out to Paul and
Bugz, from KO, 3/25/09. And I won't read the whole thing, Ill just read the
first sentence.
"I received a few calls yesterday from Mr. Alumni that I wanted to catch you up on.
I'm sorry we weren't able to meet yesterday. I do have lots to share --"
Panish: Im sorry. (continues reading)
"I do have lots to share and review with you."

A Yes.

Q And then he goes on to list what appears to be his description of a number of
calls that he had, correct?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Then going back to the first page, it appears that you, Paul
Gongaware, forwarded that email to Randy Phillips, and you wrote "not sure what
to send back," dot, dot, dot.


A Yes.
Q What did you mean by that?

A I have no idea.

Q And then at the top of the page it appears that Randy Phillips responded to
you, Paul Gongaware, and Randy Phillips wrote "we need to pull the plug now,"
Period. "I will explain," Period.

Do you have an understanding of what Randy Phillips meant by that?

A I have no idea.

Q Did you have an understanding that for some reason, on March 25th,
2009, Mr. Phillips thought that you needed to pull the plug on the tour?

Q Did something happen around this time, March of 2009, that was creating a
concern for you and Mr. Phillips?

A Not that I recall.

Q Do you recall an incident in London at the press conference with Michael
Jackson for the 02 tour?
A What do you mean by "incident"?

Q An incident involving Michael.

A I still don't understand what you're getting at.

Q That Michael was not in good shape at the press conference?

A I thought he was in good shape at the press conference. I was there.
Q Did you ever speak to Mr. Phillips about Mr. Phillips' feelings about
Michaels -

A At what point?

Q -- well being at the press conference?

A Well, I was in contact with him while he was waiting -- I was at the gate -- at
the press conference at the 02 -

Q Right.

A -- and Randy was with Michael.

Q And Michael was late, correct?

A Yes, he was late.

Q And why was he late, if you know?

A I don't know why he was late. Randy just said, "I'm trying to get him going,
I'm trying to get him going."

Q Did Randy ever tell you why Michael was late?

A No, I don't recall.

Q Do you know -- do you know why Randy would have been emailing a man
named Roger Friedman about Michael on their way to that press conference?

A I don't know who Roger Friedman is.

Q So you don't know why Randy would have been emailing him?

A No.

Q Did Randy ever tell you that Michael was drunk and despondent before that
press conference?

A No, not drunk and despondent.

Q Did he say something else?

A He just said he was having a hard time getting -- getting him going.

Q And did he explain that further?

A No.

Q Did you have an understanding of what he meant?

A I -- no. I was just too busy at the press conference.

Q Do you know if Randy ever informed Mr. Leiweke about his concerns about
Michael before the press conference?
A I don't know.
Q You don't know?
A No, I don't know.
Panish: Now, Mr. Gongaware, I want to talk to you about Dr. Murray.
Q Do you remember who he was?
A Yes, sir.
Q And, sir, is it your understanding and testimony that you had two telephone
conversations with Dr. Murray?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever meet with Dr. Murray at any rehearsals?
A There was one rehearsal where i said hello to him.
Q And -- and when was that, sir?
A I think it was at the forum.
Q And did you say how long was your conversation with Dr. Murray at that time?
A Basically just a hello.
Q What did he say?
A I don't recall.
Q Where did that conversation take place?
A That was on the floor of the forum.
Q The forum? On the floor where the rehearsal was occurring?

A Yes.

Q Were you watching the rehearsal at the forum that day?

A I don't recall specifically that day. I didn't get a chance to watch the rehearsals very
often.

Q Right. It's a very rare thing that you'd watch any of the rehearsals because you were so
busy doing other things, right?

A That's true.
Q Okay. Now, sir, the first time you spoke to Dr. Murray, this is in response to a
discussion you had where Mr. Jackson wanted you to hire Dr. Murray to work with him,
correct?

A Yes.

Q And you were asked to hire and retain Dr. Murray, as the producer of the show, weren't
you, sir?

A Michael asked me to retain him for Michael Jackson.

Q Right. And that's what you went about and did, didn't you, sir?

A I never hired him.
Q Okay. First of all, sir, the first conversation you had -- by the way, have you seen
Randy Phillips saying on international TV how AEG hired Dr. Murray?
A No, I haven't seen it.
Q Okay. Have you ever said to Randy Phillips: Why are you saying that AEG hired Dr.
Murray?
Judge: Sustained.
Gongaware: No.
Panish: Let me show you --do we have that -- I'm going to ask you to take a look at
something, sir. It's 37-8. Do you know what sky network is, sir? Sky News?
Gongaware: Yes. It's in the UK.
Mr. Panish: It's in the UK.
Q In other words, where the concert was going to be, right?
A Yes.
Panish: Okay.
Putnam: Lacks foundation, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
Panish: You're pretty good friends with Mr. --
Q Why do you keep looking over at the lawyers?
A He said something, and I can't see him because the screen is in the way.
Q Okay. But I noticed this morning you kept looking over at him. Is there a reason why
you're doing that?

A I wasn't looking at him. I can't see him with the screen in the way.

Q Okay. Would you like us to move the screen for you, sir?

A It's fine where it is. But if you want to move it, it's okay with me.
Q You're the witness. Whatever you'd like.

A It's fine.
Q Okay. All right. So let's go and see this, sir. Is Mr. Phillips a good friend of yours?

A I work with him.

Q Is that him?

A That's him.

Q Is that the AEG Live sign right in front of -- or behind him?

A Behind him, yes.

Q Okay. July 1st, 2009, was that after Michael Jackson died?

A Yes.

Q Do you understand Mr. Phillips was giving news interviews for AEG Live?

A I had no idea.

Panish: Okay. Play it.

(Panish plays video clip of Phillips):

Q Mr. Gongaware, July 1st, 2009, that's before there were any lawsuits about Michael
Jackson, right?

A Yes, sir.

Q And Mr. Phillips, he's your boss, right?

A Yes.

Q And as far as you testified, he's an honest and truthful person?

A Yes, sir.

Q Now, sir, let's talk about the first call you had with Dr. Murray. That's the one where
Dr. Murray told you that he wanted $5 million, right?

A Yes, sir.

Q And you called Dr. Murray, did you not?

A Yes, Michael asked me to call him and - because he wanted him as his doctor.

Q Okay. The question was, did you call Dr. Murray, sir?

A I did, sir.
Q And you called Dr Murray, and you told him that he was going to perform services as a
physician, correct?

A I told him Michael wanted him as his doctor for the shows in London.

Q Did you have an understanding when you called him that he was to perform services as
a physician?

A For Michael's benefit, yes, as his patient.

Panish: My question was, did you have an understanding -- let's just read the
deposition. Page 98, line 16 to 20.

Putnam: Okay.

Panish: Do you want me to just read it? I'll just read it to speed it up.

(reading from Gongawares deposition):

Q Did you have an understanding at that time as to what services Dr. Murray
was to perform as a physician?

A No, not really. I mean, just he was going to be his doctor.

Q Did you change that answer, sir?

A No.

Q And what ailments did Mr. Jackson have at that time, sir?

A None that I knew of. He'd taken a physical. Lloyd's of London had sent a doctor over to
give him a physical. He passed the physical, and from what I understand, there was
nothing wrong with him. The only thing I heard was some hay fever.

Q Sir, did you see that report?

A No.
Q Do you know whether any blood tests were done to see whether there was any
painkillers in his system?

A There were blood tests done, yes.

Q Do you know what the blood tests were for, sir?

A Just that everything was good.

Q Okay. But you don't know whether they tested for just CBC, blood, cholesterol levels,
or whether they tested for any drugs in his system, do you, sir?

A I don't know what they tested for.

Q And, sir, that was before you started talking to Dr. Murray that Mr. Jackson was -- was
given the physical, correct?

A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you know if anyone ever saw a copy of that report?

A The information I got back was from Bob Taylor, the insurance guy, who said that he
was fine, he passed the physical. So I don't know who else had seen it. Apparently, Mr.
Taylor had.

Q Well, how did you -- did Mr. Taylor tell you that he saw the report, sir?

A No, just an email that -
Q Did he say in an email that he saw the report, sir?

A I don't recall.

Q Can you tell me anyone that you know that ever saw that written report?

A No, not that I know.

Q When you first spoke to Dr. Murray, did you even know what his specialty was?

A I had no idea who he was. The first time I heard his name was when Michael asked me
to call him. I had no idea who he was.

Q So I guess that means you didn't know what his specialty was, either, did you?

A I didn't.

Q And, sir, do you know why you were calling Dr. Murray instead of Michael Jacksons
manager?

A Michael asked me to call him.

Q Sir, do you know -- have an understanding as to why you were asked to call Dr.
Murray as opposed to Michael Jackson's manager calling Dr. Murray?

A I don't know why.

Q Now, sir, the first conversation you called Dr. Murray and you told him -- you said that
Mr. Jackson wants to take him on the tour, right?

A Yes, I believe so.

Q And then you just said: How much do you want? Right?

A Yes.
Q And Dr. Murray told you that he wanted $5 million, correct?

A That's what he said.

Q And Dr. Murray -- did he tell you that he had any clinics or anything like that?

A Yeah, he said he had four clinics he would have to close, he would have to lay some
people off. So he had a clinic, he said in Houston, I think he had one in Las Vegas, he told
me one in San Diego and one in Hawaii.

Q You never checked that out to see if that was truthful, did you, sir?
A No.

Q You never checked out anything about Dr. Murray, did you, sir?

A No. He'd been Michael's personal doctor for three years, and that's -- on Michael's
insistence.

Q Did -- do you know how many times he saw Mr. Jackson in three years, sir?

A That's between he and Michael.

Q Okay. Do you know whether he treated Michael Jackson or his children?

A No idea.

Q And you did nothing to verify anything about Dr. Murray; isn't that true, sir?

A Well, Michael Jackson insisted on him, recommended him, and that was -- that was
good enough for me. It's not for me to tell Michael Jackson who his doctor should be.

Q Okay. So that -- you could have told him, "no, you go hire your own doctor," couldn't
you, sir?

A I wouldn't have done that.

Q Okay. So whatever Michael Jackson wanted, no matter what, you would give it to him,
right, sir?

A I don't know about "no matter what," but I tried to make sure he had what he needed to
-- to do his job.

Q Was there anything preventing you from telling Mr. Jackson, "no, we will not hire Dr.
Murray"?

A No, I don't think so.

Q Was there anything preventing you from telling Mr. Jackson, "hey, we'll give you
money, you go hire Dr. Murray and have your own deal with him"?

A Nothing preventing me from that, no.

Q Was there anything preventing you from telling Michael Jackson, "no, we're not hiring
a doctor for the tour"?

A No. He wanted a doctor, and I wanted him to be healthy for this tour.

Q So the answer is there's nothing that prevented you from saying no -- isn't that true, sir?

A That's true.

Q Now, sir, Dr. Murray, when he told you $5 million, you basically hung up on him,
didn't you?

A No, I wasn't impolite, I didn't hang up on him. I just told him it wasn't going to happen.

Q You said, "that's the end of this call," right?

A I don't think that's what i said.

Q Well, sir, the second call you had with Dr. Murray is where he accepted $150,000 a
month, correct?

A That's right.

Q And this is after you say that Mr. Jackson and his assistant were in a car and you heard
him say offer him 150,000?

A Yes, I heard Michael twice say offer him 150, offer him 150.

Q Okay. And, sir, this was several weeks after your first conversation with Dr. Murray,
wasn't it?

A Yes, it was.

Q And it could have been three to four weeks, couldn't it, sir?

A Could have been.

Q And then when you talked to Dr. Murray and you said 150,000, "I'm authorized to offer
you 150,000" -- you said that, right?

A I did say that.

Q And he said, "I can't do it for that, I need more," right?

A He started in saying that he wanted more -- and I said that offer came directly from the
artist, and he immediately accepted it.

Q In other words, you cut him off in mid sentence when he said "I need," and you said,
"No. That offer comes directly from the artist," and he immediately accepted, isn't that
true, sir?

A That's right.

Q And he went all the way from 5 million to 150,000 a month in a couple seconds, didn't
he, sir?

A Yes, sir.

Q Did he seem desperate to you that he made such a jump like that?

A No. I just think he was willing to accept what Michael was offering.

Q He was willing to accept whatever he was going to get paid, wasn't he, sir?

A You'd have to ask him that.

Q Well, you never asked him that, did you, sir?

A No. The artist asked me to offer him 150,000 a month, and I did that.

Q Sir, you never asked him that question, did you, sir?

A Which question is that, sir?

Q The one -- let me rephrase. You never asked Dr. Murray whether he'd take anything to
do that job, did you, sir?

A No.

Q Okay. So it went from 5 million to 150, done deal, on that phone call, right?

A Well, it wasn't a done deal. We -- we agreed on what the compensation would be, but
there was still a lot of open issues that had to be resolved.

Q Sir, did you -- let me show you exhibit 175. You've seen this before, I'm sure. Can you
read that on the screen? It's only two lines.

A Yes.

Q Did you write that email, sir?

A Yes.

Q And did you write that email when you had the conversation with Dr. Murray, or did
you wait until the next day?

A I don't recall the timing.

Q Okay. Well, you wrote it at 7:46 at night. Does that seem to lead you to believe that you
had the conversation on the 16th -- excuse me - the 6th?

A I don't remember the -- I don't remember the specific date I had the conversation.

Q Okay. So it could have been the day before or another day before that?

A When I had the conversation?

Q Yes.

A Could have been.
Q Okay. And then you say "done at 150 per month per Mr.," right?

A Yes.
Q And, sir, the first conversation was anywhere from two to four weeks before May 6th,
2009, correct?

A Yes.

Q Maybe five weeks. You've said that before, haven't you, sir?

A Might have been.

Q So it was two -- two to five weeks before May 6th is your best estimate of when you
had the first conversation with Dr. Murray where he demanded $5 million, right?

A Yes.

Q Could it have been six weeks?

A I don't think so.

Q Okay. Two to five weeks. That's your best estimate?

A Somewhere in there.

Q You don't have any notes from that, do you, sir?

A No, sir.

Q You just kept that in your memory like your deposition changes, right?

A I remember this specifically.

Q Okay. Now, did you ask Dr. Murray whether he was licensed to go to London?

A I did in the second conversation.

Q He told you, "Don't worry about it. It will all work out," right?

A He didn't say, "It will all work out," he said that he will take care of it.

Q Did he tell you he was going to work it out?

A He told me he would take care of that, he would handle it.

Q Did he tell you not to worry about it, sir?

A I don't recall that. He may have.
Q Dr. Murray told you several times, "Don't worry about it. I'll take care of it," for several
issues, including Michael Jackson's health, didn't he, sir?

A Those words, I don't recall them.

Panish: All right. Well, let's play - let's start with the first one, page 115, line 20, to
page 116, line 1.

(Panish plays video clip of Gongawares deposition):

Q Was anything else discussed on that call?

A Yeah. I did ask him -- I said, "How are you going to do this? How are -- you
know, you're not licensed in -- you know, you're not licensed in London. How are
you
going to do this?" And he said, you know, "Don't worry about it, I'll -- you know,
I'll work that out."

Q Does that refresh your recollection, sir?

A It does.

Q And, sir, that's not the only time that Mr. -- Dr. Murray told you don't worry about it, is
it, sir?

A The only other time I met with him was at Michael's house, and -- I don't recall him
specifically saying don't worry about it in that meeting, but he did say that he was going
to handle things.

Q Okay. But my question was, that was not the only time that Dr. Murray told you not to
worry about it, and I guess your answer would then be, "I don't recall", is that right?

A The words you're using is what I was referring to, but i -- I don't specifically remember
him at another time saying that, you're right, sir.

Q So it means the answer is, "I don't recall"?

A I don't recall.
Q Right?

A Yes, sir.

Q Okay. Thank you. Now, Dr. Murray also told you he's going to need some equipment,
right?

A In London.

Q And some things, he told you he was going to need, right?

A He said he was going to need some equipment, he thought he was going to need an
assistant.

Q Well, did he tell you that he was going to need some equipment and some things?

A He may have, yes.

Q Okay. Well, did you ask Dr Murray whether he was going to need anything?

A Are you referring to this --during the second call?

Q Yes, sir.

A I may have.

Q And did you ask -- when you asked Dr. Murray was he going to need anything, did he
tell you he was going to need some equipment and some things?

A I don't recall what the things would be, but he -- he did mention equipment, and he
mentioned an assistant.

Q Now, sir, as soon as you -- strike that question. That 150,000 a month would be equal
to 1.5 million a year, is that right? More than 1.5 million? For ten months it would be 1.5
million, correct?

A Yes.
Q And that was for Dr. Murray to treat only one patient, correct?

A That's right.

Q Now, sir, I want to talk to you a little bit about Mr. Woolley. Do you know Mr.
Woolley?

A Yes.
Q Mr. Woolley is a long-time friend of yours?

A Yes.

Q And you and Mr. Woolley have worked together on many projects, correct?

A That's correct.

Q And you're currently working together now on the Rolling Stones project, correct?

A That's right.

Q Where does Mr. Woolley live?

A Somewhere in Florida now.

Q Okay. And Mr. Woolley was somebody that you had a lot of communication and
contact about in preparation and getting this This Is It tour going, correct?

A Yes, very much so.
Q I -

A I said, "yes, very much so."

Q And this is a man that you trusted, right?

A I did.

Q And, sir, did you negotiate this contract of term of the amount of money with Dr.
Murray?

A No. The only thing I did with Dr. Murray is set the -- the price that he would be paid. I
didn't negotiate the contract.

Q Sir, did you negotiate a price for him?

A I negotiated a price.

Q Is that a yes?

A Yes, sir.

Q Okay. Well, sir, in -- do you remember signing a declaration under oath in this case?

A Probably. I've signed a few things, yes.

Q Well, do you read things before you sign them under oath under penalty of perjury?

A Normally.

Q "Normally"?

A Yes.

Q And sometimes you sign things under oath that you don't read?

A I can't recall doing that.

Q So you told us how you negotiated the price with Dr. Murray, correct?

A Yes, sir.

Panish: and then, sir -- I want to play what you testified under oath. That's at page
159, line 21, to 160, line 22, on the subject that we just discussed about the
negotiation issue. Okay?

(Panish plays video clip of Gongaware's deposition):

Q You called the physician, right?

A I did.

Q And you negotiated a price for him, right?

A I got his price.

Q But did you negotiate the price for him?

A No, I -

Q "No"?

A What's the negotiations? There was no negotiation.

Q He said 5 million, right?

A I said no.

Q You said no. You came back at 150 -- right? -- which is lower than 5 million?

A On Michael's authorization.
Q Okay. But you came back at 150, right? Is that correct?

A Yes.
Q And then he agreed, correct?

A That's right.

Q I would say you may have won that negotiation, but it was definitely a
negotiation. That's definitely a negotiation, correct?

A I don't agree with you.

Panish: Sir, in your deposition, you denied that you negotiated a price with Dr. Murray,
didn't you?

A According to this, yes.

Q And now you've changed your testimony and said you did negotiate a price with Dr.
Murray, correct?

A You know, I think of negotiations a little differently, perhaps -- but I guess you could
categorize it as a negotiation, yes.

Q You just categorized it yourself that way under oath, didn't you, sir?

A Yes.

Q And, sir, isn't it true that AEG Live Productions -- strike that. Isn't it true, sir, that you
agreed to negotiate -- excuse me. Isn't it true that you ultimately agreed that AEG Live
Productions, through you, would facilitate the contract negotiations with Dr. Murray, as it
had done with other members of Jackson's tour party?

A You know, I never discussed that. I just passed it on to Timm Woolley, who handles
those kinds of things, so I didn't discuss contract.

Q Okay, sir. Well, what I want to mark now is your declaration under oath. And that's
exhibit 638-1 to 638-6. And this is a document that was filed with the court in this case.
So - take it down for one second.

Let me show it to you, sir. You know what it means to be under oath, right?

A Yes, sir.

Q first you want to -- let's go -- if we can go to the last page. Well -- okay, sir. Why don't
you read for us where it says, on page 6, what -- what was written and what you signed,
sir.

You can put that up, go ahead.

A Just that last paragraph?

Q Hold on, we're going to -- yeah.

A Okay.

Q Go ahead.

A "I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the
foregoing is true and correct, executed this 29th the day of November, 2012, at Los
Angeles, California," and I signed it.

Q Okay, sir. And you know what it means to be under the penalty of perjury?

A Yes, sir.

Q What does that mean?

A You've got to tell the truth.

Q Okay. And, sir, did you --this is a six-page document. Did you write this declaration
under oath and file it with the court that was signed on the 29th of November -- that was
before you even gave a deposition in this case, right?

A Yeah, I believe it was.

Q And was that -- did you write this up about the truth as you were speaking it?

A I didn't personally write it out.

Q Who wrote it out?

A My attorneys.

Q And did you read it before you signed it?

A Yes.
Q Did you read it like you do here in court, take your time and go through every single
line?

A I don't recall how I read it.

Q Where were you when you read it?
A I don't recall.

Q Were you -- where do you live, sir?

A Hermosa Beach.

Q Were you at home when you signed it?

A I don't recall.

Q Well, according to this, you were in Los Angeles when you read it, right, sir?

A I don't think that's what that means, that I was in Los Angeles when I read it.

Q It says "I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that
the foregoing is true and correct. Executed this 29th day of November at Los Angeles,
California."

It doesn't say Hermosa Beach, does it, sir?

A No, it doesn't.

Q Hermosa Beach is not Los Angeles, California, is it, sir?

A No.

Q Where were you when you signed this under oath, sir?

A I don't recall.

Q Okay. Now, we were talking about the contract negotiations. Do you remember those
questions I just asked you, whether ultimately AEG Live would -- you would undertake
negotiations, and you said that's not true? Do you remember that, sir?

A Yes.
Q Okay. Let's see what you said under oath in paragraph 8 of your declaration under oath.
This is 638, dash, 3. It says -- let me -- why don't you read it to us, sir, what you said
under oath in your declaration that you filed with the court in November of 2012.

A "Ultimately, I agreed that AEG Live Productions would facilitate contract negotiations
with Dr. Murray, as it had done for the other members of Jackson's tour party. Jackson
gave me Dr. Murray's telephone number and asked me --"

Q That's good. That's good.

A More?

Q So, sir, were you telling the truth then or now in court?
Putnam: Objection. Misstates prior testimony, your honor.

Judge: Sustained. Rephrase that.

Panish: Sure. You just told us that you didn't ultimately agree to facilitate contract
negotiations with Dr. Murray as had been done for other members of Jackson's tour
party.

Q Do you remember testifying to that two minutes ago, sir?


Judge: Overruled.
Gongaware: Maybe I misunderstood your question. I believe what I was saying is
that --is that I didn't do the negotiation.

Panish: It -- I didn't ask you that question, sir.

Q Do you want me to read it back for you from your prior testimony?

A Your choice.

Q What you signed here under oath, "Ultimately, I --" is that you this time, or is that
someone else?

A That's me, sir.

Q Okay. You got the right pronoun that time, right?

Putnam: Objection, your honor.
Judge: It's argumentative. Sustained.

Panish: I'm sorry.

Q Your lawyer wrote this out, you didn't write it out, right?

A I didn't physically write it out, no.

Q And how long did you get to review it before you were asked to sign it?

A I don't recall.

Q Okay. Here's what you said. I have it here, sir, right in front of me. And here's my
question. "Isn't it true, sir, that you agreed to negotiate -- excuse me," I said. "Isn't it true
that you ultimately agreed that AEG Live Productions, through you, would facilitate the
-- the contract negotiations with Dr. Murray as it had done with other parties of the
Jackson tour?"

Do you remember that question, sir?

A Well, I guess I was referring through me. I don't -- I didn't take part in those
negotiations.

Q And then your statement that you agreed to facilitate contract negotiations with Dr.
Murray, would that be false, sir?

A No. It would have been just telling Timm Woolley to negotiate it.

Q Do you mention Timm Woolley anywhere in that, sir?

A No.

Q But you told Timm Woolley then to facilitate contract negotiations with Dr. Murray as
it had been done with other members of the Jackson tour party, is that right, sir?

A That's what Timm -- part of what he did.

Q And he was authorized by you to negotiate the contract with Dr. Murray, right?

A Yes.

Q And, sir, in your deposition under oath, you testified differently, didn't you?
A I don't recall that deposition.

Panish: okay. Well, let's read it, see if it refreshes your recollection. Page 334, line
14, to 335, line 7. Hold up. You're not ready for that?
Putnam: Not yet. Just one second.

Panish: Sure. Ready?

(Putnam plays video clip of Gongawares deposition):

Q Did you agree that AEG Live Productions would facilitate the contract
negotiations with Dr. Murray?

A I never discussed the contract with him.

Q But did you ever agree with anyone, you know, that AEG Live Productions
was going to facilitate those contract negotiations with Dr. Murray?

A No, I didn't deal with any of that.

Q And you never agreed that AEG Live Productions would do that, right?

A Never.

Q You never agreed to that?

A No.

Panish: That's contrary to the declaration that you filed under oath with the court less than
a month before you gave this testimony under oath, isn't it, Mr. Gongaware?
A Well, i guess it is, yes.

Q And did you change that portion of your deposition, sir, that we just played?

A No.
Q Today you've admitted that you facilitated the contract negotiations with Dr. Murray,
correct?

A Well, I mean, if you want to call telling Timm Woolley to do the contract, then I guess
that's true.

Q Sir, that's what your lawyers wrote and you signed a month before your deposition,
right?

A This is what I signed.

Q It doesn't say "I agreed that Timm Woolley would facilitate contract negotiations, does
it?

A No.
Q Do you mention him anywhere in that paragraph, sir?

A No.

Q Now, sir, between the first call -- let's call that the 5 million call -- and the second call,
you called another doctor, didn't you, sir?

A Yes.

Q And who was that that you called between the first and the second call?

A My friend Dr. Finkelstein.

Q Your friend of 35 plus years, right?

A Yes.

Q And you only had one call with Dr. Finkelstein on this subject, correct?

A Yeah, one, maybe two, but something like that, yeah.

Q Sir, have you previously testified under oath that you had just one call with Dr.
Finkelstein, yes or no?

A I only recall one.
Q That wasn't my question, sir. You just said one or two, maybe. And my question was
did you previously testify under oath that you only spoke to Dr. Finkelstein one time?

A I don't recall what I said.

Panish: Okay. Okay, sir, I want to mark trial exhibit 638 -

Judge: Counsel, just one thing. If I can hear you up here, then jurors can hear you, so you
need to keep your voice down.

Boyle: Sorry, your honor.

Panish: He's just trying to help me.

Judge: I understand that. But he needs to keep his voice down. If I can hear what he's
saying, everyone else can hear it.

Panish: Sorry.

I want to mark 438-65 to 438-66, which is Mr. Gongaware's testimony under oath in the
criminal trial on September 28th, 2011.

Q Do you remember that testimony, sir?

A Yeah, I remember doing it.

Q Did you tell the truth then, sir?

A Yes.

Q That was before you even gave your deposition in this case, wasn't it, sir?

A Yes.

Q That was a year and three months before your deposition in this case, wasn't it,
approximately?

A Something like that.

Q Was your memory better then than it was at your deposition?

A I don't think so.
Q Okay. All right. Let's -- do we have that clip?

And, sir, is it true or not that you had one phone call with Dr Finkelstein?

A I did have a conversation with Dr. Finkelstein, yes.

Q Just one?

A I remember one for sure. There may have been another.

Panish: All right. Let's see what you testified to.

(Panish plays video clip of Gongawares testimony at Murrays trial):

Q The 5 million is just a ridiculous amount, correct?

A In my opinion, yeah, it is.

Q In fact, you didn't know exactly what you needed to pay a doctor, either, did
you?

A I have a general idea.

Q Your general idea was based on not only past experience, but you also made a
couple of phone calls?

A I made one phone call, yes.

Q To a doctor?
A To a doctor, yes.

Q And this was between the period of time of the offer of $5 million and
ultimately the $150,000?
A Yes.
Panish: Does that refresh your recollection, sir, that you made only one phone call to Dr.
Finkelstein?

A I do recall making one phone call, yes.

Q And if Dr. Finkelstein were to testify that you made five to ten calls to him on this
subject, would that be true or false?


Judge: Overruled.

A I didn't make anywhere near that number of calls to Dr. Finkelstein.

Q So if Dr. Finkelstein testified under oath to that, that would be false, your good friend
of 35 years, correct?

A Yeah, he wouldn't be correct.

Q And, sir, when you called Dr. Finkelstein, you wanted to find out how much he would
charge. That's been your testimony, right?

A Yes.
Q And, sir, isn't it true that you said -- by the way, do you refer to Dr. Finkelstein as
Stewie?

A Yes.
Q Did you say, "Stewie, I might have a gig for you"?

A I don't recall what I said, but that doesn't sound right.

Q Okay. So it's your testimony here under oath that you never offered the tour doctor
position to Dr. Finkelstein, correct?

A That's correct, I never did.

Q And if he were to say that, he, again, would be false, correct?

A He would be mistaken.

Q Is there any reason you could think of that Dr. Finkelstein has any grudge against you
that he would testify falsely against you?

A I can't imagine.

Q Okay. Now, sir, when you called Dr. Murray, you made that call as acting as a producer
for the show, isn't that right, sir?

A Which call are we talking about, sir?

Q The first call.

A I was acting on behalf of Michael Jackson.

Panish: Okay. Well, let's see what you testified in your deposition, page 101, line
--excuse me. Page 100, line 1, to page 100, line 20.

Q At the time you made that first call to Dr. Murray, what was your role in
regard to the This Is It tour?

A I was putting together -- at that point, I was putting together the production.

Q So you were in your role as producer?

A Yes.
Q Based on your experience, as you sit here today, can you name any other time
when, in your role as - while you were working on a tour as a producer, that you
called a physician on behalf of an artist and attempted to negotiate a price for that
physician to go on tour with the artist?

A No.

Q Is it a fair statement that this was the only time in your career that you've
ever done this?

A Yes.

Q And it was pretty soon after that first call that you called Dr. Finkelstein, wasn't it, sir?

A Yes.

Q And -- was it the same day?

A I don't recall specifically when it was.

Q It was pretty close in time, wasn't it?

A Yeah, I think it was.
Q And you asked Dr. Finkelstein if he were the doctor, what would he charge, right?

A Yes, I did.

Q And he told you about 40,000 a month, correct?

A He said 10,000 a week.

Q Is that 40,000 a month, approximately?

A Well, there's 31 days, four weeks would be 28. It could be 45000, depending on the
month.

Q Okay. What about in February? Don't answer that.

Did Dr. Finkelstein express interest in being the tour doctor?

A I don't recall specifically, but I -- I knew he would want to.

Q My question was did Dr. Finkelstein express interest about being the tour doctor, sir?

A Specifically, I don't recall.

Q Now, you didn't call any other doctors, did you, sir?

A No.

Q After calling Dr. Finkelstein, did you do anything else to determine what a fair price for
a doctor for Michael Jackson would be?

A No.

Q And you don't recall how the call with Dr. Finkelstein ended, correct?

A No, I don't recall.

Q And is it true, sir, that you have never spoken to Dr. Finkelstein since that conversation
about Michael Jackson's death?

A After his death, we may have talked. I don't recall specifically any conversations.

Q So isn't it true your testimony is you don't recall specifically having any conversation
with Dr. Finkelstein after Michael Jackson died, about his death?

A I don't recall any specifically.

Q Is that a "yes"?

A It's an "I don't recall."

Q Okay. And you see Dr. Finkelstein how many times a year?

A A few times a year.
Q How many?
A A few.

Q What's "a few"?

A Three, four, maybe.

Q Three to four times, and it's never come up?

A No.

Q Okay.


Q Now, sir, when you received that information that Dr. Finkelstein would charge 10,000
a week, what did you do with that information?

A Nothing.

Q Just kept it in your head?
A Yes.

Q Just like the changes in your testimony, kept it in your head?

A Yes.
Q Did you ever convey that to Michael Jackson?

A I don't recall that, no.

Q You don't recall -- or no, you didn't do it?

A I don't recall.

Q Did you convey it to anyone?

A I don't recall.

Q Sir, when you spoke to Dr. Finkelstein, he asked you whether or not Michael Jackson
was clean, didn't he, sir?

A I don't remember the conversation.

Q So are you saying he didn't say that, or you don't remember whether he said it or didn't
say it?

A I don't remember whether he asked me.

Q And so you -- you're not in any position to dispute what he says about that, are you?

A No, I don't think so.

Q And, sir, did Dr. Finkelstein want to know whether Michael Jackson had been using
any drugs up to that point in time?


Judge: Overruled.

A I don't recall any specific conversations about that.

Q You don't recall one way or the other?

A That's right.

Q And do you recall Dr. Finkelstein telling you he didn't want to come on the tour if
Michael Jackson was taking any drugs?


Q You don't recall one way or the other again?
A I don't recall it.

Q You don't recall him saying that, or you don't recall one way or the other?

A I don't recall that conversation or hearing that.

Q Okay. So you say it never happened?

A No. I just don't recall it.

Q All right. Now, sir, you were involved in terminating employees or other people that
--strike that. You were involved in terminating people - other people that worked with
Mr. Jackson, correct?

A In one case.

Q Well, in fact, sir, you were involved in terminating the nanny for Mr. Jackson's kids,
weren't you?

A Yes.

Putnam: Objection, your honor. It's - M.I.L. 3 covers this, relevancy.

Judge: Overruled.

Putnam: Okay.

Panish: I don't want to cause a problem. Let me see what you're talking about.

Judge: Let's go to sidebar.

(Sidebar):

(return to open court)

Q: Mr. Gongaware, you could have fired Dr. Murray, couldn't you?
A I don't believe so.

Q You had the right to control and hire or fire individuals that did work to help Mr.
Jackson, didn't you, sir?

A He worked directly for Mr. Jackson.

Q Sir, you fired the nanny that worked directly for Mr. Jackson, didn't you?

A I was asked to by Michael Amir, and I did that, yes.
Q So you have the right and you could hire or fire anyone that helped Mr. Jackson,
couldn't you, sir?

A No.

Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation. Misrepresents prior testimony.

Judge: Overruled.

Q Your answer was no?
A I don't believe I had that right.

Q Okay. Well, sir, Ms. Rwaramba, do you know that name?

A Sounds about right, yeah.

Q Was that the nanny that helped Mr. Jackson with his children?

A I believe so.
Q And did you -- were you involved in negotiating and terminating her?

A I informed her that she was being terminated.

Q Well, you informed her that AEG was cutting down on Mr. Jackson's expenses in
anticipation of the tour, didn't you, sir?

A I did say that.
Q And you told her that because of AEG cutting Mr. Jackson's expenses, her needs would
no longer -- her services would no longer be necessary, didn't you, sir?

A Yes.

Q And you could have told Dr. Murray at any time that his services were no longer
needed, couldn't you, sir?

A No, sir.

Q Have you seen Dr. Murray's contract with AEG, sir?

A No.

Q Have you seen the document that he signed and faxed back to AEG?

A No.

Q Have you discussed with Mr. Trell the contract for Dr. Murray?

Putnam: Objection, your honor. Calls for privileged testimony.

Gongaware: No.

Judge: Sustained.

Q Have you spoken with anyone, excluding Mr. Trell, about Dr. Murray's contract that he
signed with AEG?
A No.
Q So you don't know anything about that subject?
A No, I don't.
Q Fair statement?
A Fair statement.
Q Okay. Now, Michael Jackson's contract, did you negotiate that?
A You mean the performance contract? No.
Q Did you see a signed contract?
A I never read a signed contract, I -- I was there when Michael signed the contract, but I
didn't see what was in it.
Q Well, you had a general understanding of the provisions?
A Yes, I believe I did.
Q Because this morning you told us like for Mr. Ortega that Mr. Jackson paid 95% -- do
you remember that?
A Uh-huh.
Q "Yes"?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who paid the other 5%?
A Well, it's -- it's -- the way the numbers worked, AEG would have.
Q So for Mr. Ortega, his contract, he had with AEG Live Productions, right?
A I'm not sure who the contracting party was with Mr. Ortega.

Q But that was what you call a production expense, right?

A Yes.

Q And in production expenses, 95% is paid by Mr. Jackson and 5% was paid by AEG,
right?

A Yes.
Q But AEG advances all the money, right?

A Yes.
Q And if Dr. Murray was a production expense listed on a budget approved by you, AEG
would pay 5% and Mr. Jackson would pay 95%, correct?

A No, that's not correct. If it -- Dr. Murray was 100 percent Michael's cost.

Q Sir, production -- was Dr. Murray ever listed as a production expense on any budget
you approved, yes or no?

A I don't know.
Q Did you approve AEG paying for Dr. Murray's housing in London, sir?

A I don't recall.

Q Let's see if we can refresh your recollection with exhibit 641, dash, 35. Okay. Have you
seen that document before, sir?

A Yes, I have.

Q Is your name on that document, sir?

A Part of it, yes.

Q Okay. What is your understanding of what that document is, sir?

A It's -- this appears to be Timm Woolley talking about allocations.

Q Okay. But it's you -- it's from you to Timm Woolley, right?

A No, it's not.

Q Well, let me rephrase that. It probably wasn't clear. Okay. Mr. Woolley wrote that he
prepared what he thinks is an equitable division of expenses between Mr. -- that's Mr.
Jackson, right?

A Yes.

Q --and the tour, right?

A Yes.

Q And then there's a category AEG, what AEG has to pay, right?

A Yes.

Q And under the AEG category, it says AEG has to pay for three of the local houses --
Bush, Faye and Murray.

Did I read that right?

A Yes.

Q And then below, you say "I agree with Timm's allocation and the charges. Approved".
Is that right, sir?

A Yes.
Q And you approved that allocation for those charges, didn't you, sir?
A Yes. At this point -
Q Sir -
A --I was probably not even looking at these budgets, but -- after -- after the tour is
finished, we go through a process called a --a final settlement, and we would have
adjusted any of these things that I didn't really agree with, so I didn't really pay much
attention to Tims allocations at the time.

Q Sir, that wasn't my question. My question was, did you approve the allocation of AEG
paying for Dr. Murray's house, yes or no?

A Yes.

Q And so it's just a mistake that you made, sir?

A I don't think so. I just think we were going very fast at the time, and there was -- there
was no sense in trying to correct minor situations, because what happens is at the end of
the tour, at the end of the set of shows, there's a final settlement where all these things are
corrected.

Q Sir, you were approving all of the budgets. That was your job, wasn't it, sir?

A Yes.
Q You were the final say on approval of budgets for AEG -

A Yes.
Q -- Weren't you, sir?

A But budgets to us are maybe something different than what you're thinking about.
Budgets are constantly in flux. Every day, the budget would change based on new
information.

Q Do you know what I'm thinking about, sir?

A Sorry, sir. Mischaracterized.

Q Sir, you asked Mr. Murray -- I'm sorry. After you spoke to Dr. Murray initially, you
asked Timm Woolley, the tour business manager, to gather preliminary information for
the contract, right?

A I didn't really ask him anything. I just turned it over to him.

Q Okay. Well, let's look, sir, at 638, dash, 3. You have that in front of you, your statement
under oath that you filed with the court before you gave your deposition. And I'm
specifically referring now, sir, to paragraph 9 of that document you signed under oath. Do
you see paragraph 9, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And was that true when you signed it, sir, under oath?

A Yes.
Q Okay. And why don't you read for us -- and we can put it up here -- what it says that
you signed under oath about Mr. Murray -- excuse me - Dr. Murray's contract in the
preliminary information.

A Okay. "After my initial discussions with Dr. Murray, I asked Timm Woolley, the tour
business manager, to gather preliminary information for any draft contract. I was not --"

Q That's good. Now, sir, does that refresh your recollection of whether you asked Mr. --
Mr. Woolley to gather preliminary information?

A I don't know if Id have been that specific. I think I just gave it to him and said do it.

Q So, in other words, this statement here under paragraph 9 is not true?

A Well, he would be gathering information.

Q Well, no. It says here -- it doesn't say -- it says you asked Mr. Woolley to gather
preliminary information for any draft contract. Is that true, sir?

A I don't recall it quite that way when I sit here today.

Q Okay. But when you signed this under oath, you didn't recall it that way, either, did
you, sir?

A I see it as kind of the same thing here.

Q Sir, you -- you don't recall it that way today -- and when you signed this declaration,
you didn't recall it that way, either, did you, sir, to gather preliminary information?

A I kind of see what you're talking about as the same thing, sir.

Q Sir, you just told me -- strike that. You signed it under -- you didn't make any changes
to this when the lawyers gave it to you to sign, did you, sir?

A No.

Q Whatever the lawyers gave you, you just signed it, right?

A Yes, I read it and signed it.

Q But you didn't tell them to change anything not being true, did you?

A No.
Q And Mr. Woolley was the tour manager, correct?

A No. He was the tour finance officer, business manager.

Q Who is it that decided there had to be a written contract between AEG Live and Dr.
Murray, if anyone?

A I don't know.

Q You have no idea?

A No.

Q Now, sir, Mr. Woolley, you said he had other job duties for the tour, right?

A Yes.
Q One of those would be working on -- with the insurance broker and communicating
with the insurance broker to get cancellation and sickness coverage, correct?

A Yes.
Q That would be an important function he had to do, right?

A One of the many.

Q And then also what other jobs did he have to do?
A He was really responsible for the financial side of it in terms of keeping track of it,
knowing where we were at.

Q Did you have an understanding that the artist had to okay cost overruns over the
estimated at the beginning?

A Yes.
Q In writing?

A I didn't know about in writing.

Q Okay. Do you have anything in writing where Michael Jackson approved any of the
cost overruns in production?

A No.

Q And Dr. Murray's salary that he was getting, that was more than the show director,
Kenny Ortega, was going to make, correct?

A In total dollars, perhaps. In time worked versus total dollars, it might have been
--Kenny might have been actually higher paid.
Q Wait a minute. In total dollars, you mean -

A Dr. Murray would have worked for -- if this would have been completed, he would
have worked for ten months, made a million and a half. Kenny, I don't think made quite
that much, but he didn't work ten months, he was only going to work a few months.

Q But he got paid his entire salary, didn't he, sir?

A Yes.
Q And he only worked three months?

A Yes, I believe something like that. He would have still had to work another month if we
continued.

Q But he got paid everything even though it didn't go forward, didn't he?

A I believe he did.

Q Now, this 100 -- by the way, you never, ever, as a promoter or a producer, called a
doctor to negotiate a price term on a contract for an artist, have you, sir?

A That's right.

Q Never?


Q And once you did that, you yourself did nothing to look into Dr. Murray's background,
correct?

A No, I didn't do anything to look into his background. He was Michael Jackson's
physician, and had been for three years, and that was good enough for me.

Panish: Okay. I understand that, sir. Okay? You've told me that now ten times. I
understand that.


Judge: Sustained, the comment will be stricken.

Panish: Did you, sir, do anything to check out Dr. Murray in any sense whatsoever?
A No.
Q Did anyone at AEG, AEG Live, AEG Productions, to your knowledge, do anything to
check out Dr. Murray?

A I don't know what anybody else did in that regard.

Q So you don't know of anything that was done, correct?

A I don't know of anything.

Q And, sir, did you do anything to determine whether Dr. Murray was running a
successful medical practice?

A No.
Q Did you do anything to determine if Dr. Murray was in financial difficulty?

A No.

Q Now, sir, you've seen budgets that have listed Dr. Murray's costs as a production cost,
correct?

A I have.

Q And, sir, let's play -- sir, you testified differently to that in your deposition, didn't you,

sir?

A Well, since then Ive looked at all this stuff and reviewed it.

Panish: Well, sir, in your deposition, under oath, you testified -- let's just play it
here, 129-22, to 130-4; 130, line 4.

Putnam: Okay.


Q Have you ever seen any of the production documents, the production budgets
from the This Is It tour?

A Sure.
Q And did you ever see in any of those documents that the 150,000 a month for
Dr. Murray was listed as a production cost?


Panish: And, sir, when the lawyer said in your changes -- you didn't change that
testimony, did you?

A No.

Q Sir, are you aware that Dr. Murray was listed as a production cost in April, May, June
and July of 2009?

A I've looked at budgets that say that now, yes.

Q Is that a "yes"?

A I am aware.

Q Do you know -- and you approved all those budgets, didn't you, sir?

A I guess technically I did, but I never read any of them at the time.

Q Okay. So in other words, then, when you work at AEG Live, is it your custom and
practice when you're reviewing budgets on a $34 million project that you don't ever
review them?

A In this particular situation, I didn't. I had Timm Woolley, I knew he knew what he was
talking about and what he did, so I didn't feel the need to - to review any.

Q So you figured Mr. Woolley had it all perfectly right, you didn't need to look at it,
right? Because he was so experienced and he used to be the CFO of your company, he
wouldn't make a mistake, would he?

A I don't know about not making mistakes. We all make mistakes.

Q You approved those budgets not just for April and May and June and July with Dr.
Murray's 150,000 listed as a production expense, didn't you, sir?

A Well, the way we budget our shows is that we don't -- if there's a potential for a cost,
we put it in the budget so there's no surprises later. So it's not surprising to me that it's in
there, but it was never going to be paid, so it was never a cost.
Panish: I'm going to move to strike as not responsive to the question.

Judge: Motion granted, the answer is stricken. Listen to the question.

Panish: Would you like me to repeat it for you?

Gongaware: Yes, sir.
Panish: I'll just read it to you, maybe. Question, "You approved those budgets not just for
April, but May and June and July with Dr. Murray, 150,000, listed as a production
expense, didn't you, sir?"

Gongaware: I don't recall what budgets I approved.

Q Well, who else besides you approved budgets?

A Budgets change daily, so it's -- so I didn't always approve budgets, and I'm not sure
which ones I approved or didn't approve.

Q Well, Ms. Hollander testified -- do you think she knows what she's talking about, sir?

A Probably, yeah.

Q Well, Ms. Hollander testified that you - you approved all those budgets.

Putnam: Objection, misstates -

Judge: It may. Sustained.

Q: It's your job to approve the budgets, isn't it, sir?
A It's my job to get that show on the road.

Q Sir, is it your job, yes or no, to approve the budgets?
A Yes, I guess it is.

Q And if you didn't approve the budgets that were submitted to you, then you weren't
doing your job, were you, sir?

A I wouldn't see it that way.
Judge: It's 3:00 o'clock. Let's take a short break.
(15 minute recess)
Judge: Let's continue. We're going to adjourn today at 4:00 o'clock.
Panish: Okay. Good afternoon again, Mr. Gongaware.
A Hello, sir.
Q Did you go get to meet with your lawyers again?
A We went to the bathroom together.
Q You were meeting with tad, weren't you, sir?
A Yes, sir, I guess I was.
Q Is that another one of your lawyers over there, that gentleman? What's his last name?
A Tad? Tad Allen.
Q And is he one of your lawyers, sir?
A He's with the firm, yes.
Q Is he one of your lawyers?
A I don't think he's one of mine. My lawyer is Mr. Putnam.

Q Okay. So he's not your lawyer, then, Mr. Tad -- Mr. Allen?
A My lawyer is Mr. Putnam.
Q Okay. So then you don't have an attorney/client relationship with Mr. Tad Allen?

Putnam: Mr. Allen works for me.

Judge: Okay. It's irrelevant. Let's move on.

Panish: All right. Now, sir, before the break, we were talking about production advances
and budgets.
Do you remember that?

A Yes.
Q And I want to show you, sir, exhibit 641-25 first. I've probably got to give you a copy.

Can you just put it up for Mr. Gongaware while we're waiting?

Boyle: Put it up for counsel, too.
Panish: Yeah. I don't know if I have one. It's -- it's exhibit 641, I just want to show
him this page right now.

Q Can you read that, Mr. Gongaware? Kind of?

A Yes, sir, I believe I can.

Q Okay. I want to show this. This is a budget, right, sir?

A No, it's an explanation of the differences, whatever that is.

Q "An explanation of the differences." What does that mean?

A Probably relates to some budget or some projections, and the differences at a different
point in time from what that original document was.

Q Fair enough. And I think Ms. Hollander explained that, now that you remind me. And
on the bottom, it's talking -- it has the date of May 16th.

Do you see that, sir?
A Yes.

Q And then the top, it has February 7th. So would it be your understanding this is
explaining the difference between what was prepared on February 7th, 2009, and what
was in effect as of May 16th, 2009?

Putnam: Objection, Lacks foundation.

Judge: Restate your question? Re-read the question.

(the question is read)

Judge: And your objection is?

Putnam: We have nothing saying that he's seen this or knows what it is. He's just
speculating as to what he thinks it might be.
Judge: Overruled.

A February 7th, we wouldn't have had much of a budget because things really hadn't even
started then. But that's -- it appears to be some kind of a comparison.

Q Well, sir, you're in charge of -- you're the person in charge of the budgets and all of
this aspect of the tour, aren't you?

A I'm in charge of getting that tour on the road and getting it to where it has to go.

Q And this is part of your responsibility, isn't it, sir?

A I don't know.

Q Well, Ms. Hollander said that every one of these are sent to you. Is that true?

Putnam: Objection, misstates the -

Gongaware: They probably are, but -

Judge: Sustained. It does misstate her testimony. She didn't say every single one
was.
Panish: All explanations for differences.


Judge: Sustained.

Q Sir, was it your understanding that these were sent to you?

A I don't know. I don't remember seeing this one.

Q Okay. Do you have any explanation as to why Dr. Conrad Murray is listed on there on
the May 16th, 2009 projection?

A The way we do our budgets is if we anticipate a cost, it goes into the budget whether
it's actual or not. If we anticipate that it may happen, we put it in the budget so there are
no surprises. So if you're asking for an explanation why that would be in there, that's
probably why it's in there.

Q What does the entry 26 --27? What is that, sir?

A I have no idea.

Q Doesn't that say "Tohme gone"?

A No. Says "different insurance method."

Q I said --

A Im sorry, sir. I thought you said 26.

Q No problem. I corrected myself, I think. 27.

A I have no idea what that is.

Q It says "Tohme gone." Do you see that? And that -- when you put a parentheses around
something, that means to subtract it, right, sir, based on your CPA background?

A Im not sure what that column is. Is that the original budget?
Q Well, we can show you the big one. But, sir, you told us that you were a licensed CPA,
right?

A I was.

Q And do you know what it means when you put parentheses around something in an
accounting document?

A Sure. It's a negative number.

Q It means minus, right? Gone?

A It means it's a negative number, yes.

Q So in other words, the 400,000 is a negative 400,000, right?

A Yeah, but this -- you see the first column there, if we're doing a comparison of
differences, then is -- see, this doesn't give you enough information. February 7, is that
what it was as of February 7, or -- I don't understand this -- I don't have enough
information.

Panish: Okay. Fair enough. Let's look at this next one, 641-29.

Putnam: Could he see the whole document?

Panish: 641, we'll show it to him.

Stebbins: 641, your honor, is the entirety of exhibits to a deposition, so it's a number
of documents.

Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Which lawyer is the one that's going to be talking?

Judge: Doesn't matter. What is the objection now? This is an attachment to a
deposition?

Stebbins: Basically, your honor, there's a number of documents that are attached to
a deposition, and we haven't got paper copies of any of them, so just picking pages
out, it's difficult to follow.

Judge: You need to show defense counsel the documents.

Panish: This document was produced by you, Mr. Gongaware, wasn't it?

Judge: That's not what we're talking about now. You need to take the document off
the screen.

Panish: It's in evidence.

Judge: Do we have to go to sidebar about this?

Panish: No.

Stebbins: The issue, your honor, is to be able to see the entire document before it's
put up.

Judge: You or your witness?

Stebbins: Well, us at a minimum. And the witness if it would be helpful.
Judge: Do you have the document?

Panish: That is the entire document. It's in evidence and it was produced by Mr.
Gongaware.

Judge: Do you have the entire document?

Putnam: I don't.

Stebbins: Not with us, your honor.

Panish: It's in defense exhibits.

Judge: Give the lawyers the document.

Stebbins: If you want to just put it up on our screen and go through it, that's fine.

Judge: Not on the big screen.

Stebbins: This is the entire thing?

Panish: Yes.
Stebbins: That's fine.

Judge: You've seen it now?

Stebbins: Yes.

Panish: And it's in evidence. Can we put it up now?

Judge: Go ahead.

Panish: Mr. Gongaware, if we look at the very, very bottom -- can we go up a little more?
--it has some numbers.

Whose name is that on the document for producing it, sir? Are you familiar with that
name?

A Yes, sir, i am.

Q Whose name is that?

A That would have to be me.

Q You had this document, didn't you, sir?

A I still can't see the document. It's too small on my screen.

Q All right. There you go. Do we have a paper copy somewhere?

A That would be great.

Q Im just asking, trying to find it for you.
I think this is probably easier to read, if you could familiarize yourself with it. If you need
some time, let me know. If you can't read it, let me know. When you're ready, let me
know, sir.

A I will.

Q I don't know if this is going to help you but I got you a copy. -- Are you ready?

A Yes, sir.

Q Okay, sir. This is a comparison, correct?

A It's comparing our mounting costs to the original plan as of may 20th.

Q Okay. And then you see that column "increase," and then "decrease"? Do you see that,
sir?

A Yes.
Q And it has in parentheses if it means decrease, right?

A Right.

Q And, for example, in decrease, you decrease the insurance substantially, correct?
A million, 50?

A Yes.
Q Because you couldn't get sickness insurance, could you?

Putnam: Lacks foundation.

Gongaware: I don't know why.

Judge: Overruled.

Gongaware: Pardon me. I don't know why.

Q Okay. And you increased medical management to 300,000, right?

A Yeah. Im not sure what medical management is.

Judge: Im sorry. Did you say decrease in medical management?

Panish: No. Increased. Increased 300,000
Q Do you know anyone who's getting 150,000 a month?

A Dr. Murray, if the deal got done.

Q Well, sir, this has, at least as of this date, projected 300,000 for Dr. Murray as of May
16th, 2009, for an increase of -- of 300,000 as of May 16th, 2009. Is that right?

A Well, I don't know if this is for Dr. Murray or not because I don't know what
management medical is.

Q Okay. Tell us who else was providing medical management other than Dr. Murray for
Mr. Jackson or the tour, to your knowledge.

A I don't know. I don't know what that is.

Q Okay. And didn't you approve various budgets that had a medical management entry in
them, sir?

A I don't recall which ones I approved, which ones I didn't even look at.

Q Did you ever look at any budget that you approved, sir?

A Not really.

Q Okay. Did you tell Mr. Phillips and Mr. Anschutz that you didn't look at the budgets
that you were approving?

A I don't think we ever had a discussion like that.

Q Was it an expectation for you -- strike that. Is one of the job duties for you, sir, to
review and approve budgets?

A I think my job duty is to know where we're at functionally at any given time, and
I would do that through talking to Timm Woolley I didn't have time to read budgets.

Q Okay. Sir, my question was, was one of your job duties to review and approve budgets,
yes or no?

A I don't know.
Q You don't know what your -- do you know what your job duties were, sir?

A I had to do what nobody else was doing. If someone else was doing it, I didn't do it. If
no one else was doing it, I did it. That's sort of a broad description of a producer.

Q Okay. Who else was approving budgets?

A I don't know.

Q So if you don't know of anyone else doing it, that means you'd be doing it, right?

A Not necessarily.

Q Okay.

A You know, we also have a whole back office that deals with this stuff.

Q Well, who from management, to your knowledge, was charged with the responsibility
of reviewing and approving budgets on this project, sir?

A I don't know.

Q Okay. So as the person -- were you in charge of this project?

A The project? Yes.

Q So as the person in charge of this project, you can't tell us whose responsibility it was
to review and approve budgets, correct?

A That's right.

Q And did you ever tell Mr. Phillips, the CEO, that you didn't know whose responsibility
it was to approve budgets?

A I don't think we ever discussed that.

Q Did you ever tell Mr. Anschutz that you didn't know whose responsibility it was to
approve and review budgets?

A Never had any kind of discussion with him.

Q Okay. And, sir, I want to ask you about another topic. Okay? Do you think you're good
at your job, sir?

A Yes.
Q Very good, right?
A I think so.

Q And is one of the reasons why you have the job because you have a CPA background?

A I don't know that that's one of the reasons.

Q Now, sir, how many meetings did you go to at Mr. Jackson's Carolwood home?

A I don't know how many there were.

Q Okay. So your testimony is you don't recall how many meetings you attended at Mr.
Jackson's Carolwood home, is that correct?

A Yes, I don't remember.

Q Is that a yes, you don't know? Okay. Do you recall being at a meeting where Mr.
Jackson broke a vase?

A No.

Q Okay. Tell us, sir, when -- when was the first meeting you recall being at Mr. Jackson's
Carolwood home?

A I don't remember when the first one was.

Q Okay. Who was making the payments for the Carolwood home, sir?

A I don't know.

Q Was AEG Live paying for the Carolwood home, sir, to your knowledge?

A We may have been.

Q Do you know?

A I don't know for sure.

Q Well, do you have any understanding of who was paying for that home?

A No.
Q Do you know how much the rent was, sir?

A No.

Q Do you know whether Dr. Murray ever broke a vase in any meeting you were at at the
Carolwood home?
A I was only in one meeting with Dr. Murray at the Carolwood home, and I don't recall a
vase being broken.

Q Okay. So we know you were there one meeting with Dr. Murray, right? You remember
that?

A I was, yes.

Q What was the date of that meeting?

A It was sometime in June. I think it was in early June.

Q Early June. So that would be, what, the first week of June?

A I don't -- I don't recall the date.

Q When you say "early June," to me, that would mean the first week of June. Is that a
correct assumption or not?

A I don't know. I just don't remember what the date was.

Q Sir, you said early June.

A That could be the first half of June.

Q Oh, so it could -- all the way be -- from June 15th to June 1st, to you, means early
June, is that right?

A Somewhere in there.

Q Is that right? Does that mean early June to you, June 1st to June 15th?

A Yeah, it could.

Q Is that a "yes"?

A No, I mean, I don't remember what the date was, and I don't recall.

Q Im not asking you that, sir. You just said the meeting was in early June I'm just trying
to understand what you mean when you say "early June" does that mean it's either from
June 1st anytime up to June 15th?

A Or thereabouts.

Q Now, sir, that meeting when you were there in early June, or thereabouts, how many
people were present?

A You're talking about the meeting with Dr. Murray?
Q Im talking about the meeting you just told us that was in early June, or thereabouts.

A The meeting that Dr. Murray was at -- there were -- sir, there were several meetings in
that time period. I don't recall specifically what you -- which one you mean.

Q Well, you just told me you can only remember one meeting. Do you now remember
more meetings?

A I remember one meeting with Dr. Murray.

Q Well, one with Dr. Murray and how many other meetings do you remember being at at
the Carolwood home?
A I don't remember how many there were.
Q Five?
A I don't remember.
Q 100?
A I don't think there were a hundred, sir.
Q Okay. Less than 100?
A Yes.
Q Less than 50?
A Yes.
Q Less than 25?
A Probably, yeah.
Q Less than 10?
A I don't know.
Q So between 10 and 25? Is that your best estimate?
A I don't remember how many meetings there were.
Q So, sir, as you sit here today, as the person in charge of this tour, you can't give us any
estimate of how many meetings you attended at Michael Jacksons home, correct?
A That's right.
Putnam: Objection, misstates testimony.
Judge: Overruled. Other than the one with Conrad Murray, I think is --
Mr. Panish: Right.

Q But you can't tell us how many there were, right? No idea?

A No.

Q Is that correct?

A That's right.

Q Okay. So the only meeting you recall is the one with Conrad Murray; is that right?

A Well, I recall there were other meetings, but I do recall the Conrad Murray meeting,
yes.

Q Tell us -- list for me all the other meetings that you recall attending at Mr. Jackson's
home.

A Well, there was a meeting when he signed the contract. That was at Carolwood.

Q Okay. I'm going to tell you right now that was January 28th. Okay?

A Okay.

Q 2009.

A Right.

Q Okay? What's the next meeting you recall?

A I don't recall specifically other meetings. I know there were, I just can't remember
them.
Q Okay. So the only meeting that you can specifically recall ever attending at Mr.
Jackson's home was the meeting where Conrad Murray was present, correct?

A No. I also remember the contract signing.

Q You're right.
A And he wasn't there.

Q Okay. That's January 28th. Let's put that aside. Okay?

A Right.

Q Other than the contract signing on January 28th, you only can specifically recall one
meeting at Mr. Jackson's home, is that right?

A Yeah, I mean, there were -- I know there were more, I just don't remember them.

Q Im just asking you for what you recall, sir.

A Right.

Q You only recall, other than the contract signing, one meeting; is that right?

Putnam: Objection, misstates testimony.

Judge: Overruled.

A I know there were others, I just don't remember.
Q Okay. All I want to know is what you recall. Can you recall for us today any meeting
other than the contract signing and the meeting at Mr. Jackson's home where Dr. Murray
was present?

A There was only one where Dr. Murray was present.

Q Other than the meeting with Dr. Murray and other than the meeting where the contract
was signed, can you remember any other meeting at Mr. Jackson's home?

A I remember that there were others, but I don't recall specifically any of those meetings
right now.

Q So the answer is you can't recall any other meetings other than those two meetings,
January 28th and the meeting with Dr. Murray, correct?

A Right now, yes.

Q Is that going to change tomorrow?

A If I think about it, maybe.

Q Okay. Meet with your lawyer, it might change tomorrow?

Putnam: Objection, argumentative.

Judge: Sustained.

Q Okay. Let's talk about, sir -- You were at the contract signing meeting, right?

A Yes.

Q Mr. Trell was there?

A Yes.
Q Why wasn't Dr. Murray there?

A I don't know.

Q Okay. So now this meeting with Dr. Murray that you -- the only one you recall other
than the contract was in early June or thereabout, right? Did I get that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. And who was present at that meeting?
A Kenny was there, Randy, Frank Dileo, Dr. Murray, Michael. I think that's it.
Q How long did the meeting last, sir?
A Might have been an hour.
Q Was the meeting in the daytime or the nighttime?
A It was in the daytime.
Q Okay. When you say "daytime," what do you mean?
A It was still light out.
Q Okay. Well, in the month of June -- I don't -- let me withdraw that. Was it still light
when you left the meeting?

A Yes.
Q Now, sir, at that meeting, was it being discussed that part of Dr. Murray's job was to
make sure Michael was okay in getting to the rehearsals?
A No, I don't think it was about getting him to rehearsals. I think that the meeting was
about making sure Michael Jackson and Dr. Murray had everything they needed to care
for Michael.
Q Okay. Did you ever have a meeting where you discussed Michael Jacksons health at
his home, sir?
A That's the same meeting.

Q So is that a "yes"?

A I don't know if we discussed his health. We certainly discussed his well being and what
he would need.

Q Okay. My question to you, sir, specifically, did you ever have a meeting at Michael
Jacksons house where Michael Jacksons health was discussed, yes or no?

A Well, I don't know what you're talking about, "health." Im not sure I understand that
part of it. But yes, we did talk about health-related issues.

Q Okay. Well, the meeting wasn't about missing rehearsals, was it, sir?

A I don't remember that part of it. It was more of a general meeting about what Dr.
Murray would need, if he would need anything, and general situation.

Q Okay. Well, let's -- let's go to the -- your testimony on January 28, 2011. I'm sorry. Let
me rephrase that. Did you tell the truth when you testified in the criminal trial on
September 28th, 2011, sir?

A Yes.
Panish: Okay. And I want to play your testimony from page 2713, line 8 to 18, which
is exhibit 638, dash, 50, which counsel has. And we'll wait until they get ready and
give us the word.

Putnam: Okay.

Panish: Okay. You can play that. Let's just put it up and Mr. Boyle can read it,
because we don't have the video.

Judge: Im sorry. Are you going to play it, or --

Panish: We're going to have to put it up and read it because we don't have the video.

Judge: The transcript. Okay. So who is going to play who?

Stebbins: Actually, your honor, we have an objection to this. It's not deposition
testimony, so it's not for any purpose, it's actually improper impeachment because
the testimony is consistent.

Judge: Okay. Maybe. I'm going to have to look at it. Let's go to sidebar.
(Sidebar):

(back to open court)

Boyle: Your honor, plaintiffs will read into evidence a portion of the Dr. Murray criminal
trial proceeding of September 28th, 2011, page 2713, line 8 through 28 of Mr.
Gongaware testifying.

(reading:)

Q The meeting that was scheduled that you attended in early June of 2009, you
have testified that some of the topics that were involved there, but that meeting was
actually pushed by Kenny Ortega, wasn't it?

A Kenny was the one who asked for the meeting, yes.

Q And Kennys concerns were that at the time Michael Jackson was missing
rehearsal? That was one of his concerns?

A Yes.

Q Well, was that a topic of conversation at the early June meeting at
Carolwood?

A I don't recall that. I think the early June meeting was a positive meeting and
Michael was very positive about it.

Panish: Okay. Now, Mr. Gongaware, Mr. Ortega expressed to you and others concerns
about Mr. Jackson missing rehearsal, correct?
A He did.

Q And Mr. Jackson -- the only meeting that you went to where Dr. Murray was there, Mr.
Jackson wasn't there the whole meeting, was he?

A I believe he was.

Q Pardon me?

A I believe he was.

Panish: Okay. Well, let's go now to your testimony on page 2754 -- excuse me --
2573-13 to 2574-26, exhibit 639 through 637, the transcript of his testimony, and Im
going to read that.

Stebbins: What are the lines again? I apologize.

Panish: Okay. I'll give it to you, 2573-13 to 2574-26.

Stebbins: This has nothing to do with what's being discussed.

Judge: Im sorry. Is there an objection, Ms. (Stebbins) Bina?

Stebbins: I would object to improper impeachment.

Judge: Okay. What lines are you reading? Don't play it, and Ill read it right here.
Which lines?

Panish: 2754, line 13 --

Boyle: It's 2573, line 13, through 2576, line 26.

Judge: So right now i have 13 through 28 on the -- let me read that first. Okay.
Panish: Show the next page to the judge, please.

Judge: Could you blow it up a little more? Even if you blow up half of it, can you
blow it up a little more?

Panish: Yeah, can you blow it up a little more? We can scroll it down after that.

Judge: Okay. Keep -- scroll it.

Panish: Scroll.
Judge: Okay. Is that how far you wanted me to read?

Panish: No. There's a little more, I think. Oh, yeah.

Judge: Okay. And your objection?
Stebbins: The issue is, your honor, it's improper impeachment. We're talking about
one meeting, this is a different meeting.

Judge: Didn't he say he only remembered one meeting, so --
Panish: That's right.

Putnam: With Dr. Conrad Murray.
Stebbins: He said he knew there were other meetings. So if we're impeaching on that
issue of whether he remembers another meeting -- but we're talking about a
different meeting now.

Panish: He told us he only remembered one meeting other than the contract signing.

Stebbins: I would like him to refresh his recollection on whether this is the same
meeting we're talking about because my understanding is that it is not.
Panish: I don't know if counsel can testify.

Judge: Refresh his recollection.

Panish: Did you attend a meeting where Mr. Jackson was late, sir?

A There was one, yes.

Q And was Dr Murray at that meeting, sir?

A I don't think so.

Q Okay. Do you know when that meeting was?

A No, I don't remember when it was.
Q Okay. And do you remember whether Dr. Murray was there or not?

A The meeting where Michael was late, I don't believe Dr. Murray was at that one.

Q So you're sure that he wasn't there?

A I don't believe, but Im not certain.

Q Okay. And in that meeting when Mr. Jackson came in, did you note that he had slurred
speech?

A Yes, he was a little off.

Q And did you learn that he had received medications from Dr. Klein on that day?

A Yes. He was just -- just coming back from visiting Dr Klein.

Q So you knew before Mr. Jackson died that he came to a meeting with you where he had
been under the influence of some type of medication, correct?

A I believed that there was -- he was under the influence of something, because he wasn't
quite right. It's the only time i saw him like that.
Q Okay. You saw him that way weeks before he passed away, isn't that true, sir?

A Im not sure about the exact date, but that's about right.

Q That was after you had done at 150 a month with Dr. Murray, correct?

A It probably would have been.

Q Now let's go back to the meeting that you said that Dr. Murray was at. Okay? Are you
with me?

A Yes, sir.

Q And during that meeting, it's your testimony that it wasn't to discuss Michael Jacksons
overall health, is that right?

A Well, I think what the meeting was about was that Michael -- we wanted to be sure that
Michael was getting everything he needed, and that was discussed, and health issues were
discussed, as I recall.
Q So you --

A But, I mean, specifically about his health, I don't recall that anybody was saying -- I
don't remember specifically.

Q Sir, you had a meeting, the only meeting you remember with Dr. Murray, and Mr.
Jackson's health was discussed at that meeting, wasn't it, sir?

A Health issues were.
Q You admit that, right?

A I believe it was, yes.

Q Okay. And Dr. Murray was there, right?

A Yes.
Q And Mr. Jackson, yourself, Mr. Dileo, Mr. Ortega, right?

A Yes -- I believe Randy, as well.
Q And -- and during that meeting, it was your understanding -- strike that. During that
meeting, you knew that Mr. Ortega had already expressed concerns about Mr. Jackson
missing rehearsals, correct?
A Yes.
Q And during that meeting, it was your belief and understanding that Mr. Jackson was at
home practicing with Travis Payne, isn't that true?
A During what time?
Q At the time that that meeting occurred, was it your understanding that Mr. Jackson had
been at home practicing with Travis Payne?
Q Okay. Well, let me show you, sir, a document that I previously showed you, which if I
approach you, Ill see if I can get it for you, which is your statement to the police. You
met with the police, didn't you, sir?
A Yes, i did.
And was your attorney, Mr. Putnam, present there?
A Yes.
Q And how many other attorneys did you have there?
A I don't recall. I think it was just Marvin.

Q What about Mr. Trell? Wasn't he there?
A No, I don't think he was at that one.

Panish: Okay. Let me just find it for you. Is exhibit 506-1 and 2 in evidence, your
honor?
Judge: I don't know. We'll have to ask the clerk. I doubt the whole police interview
would be in evidence, but -- does counsel remember?

Putnam: It's just the summary, it's not the actual interview.

Panish: The statement.

Clerk: Im showing it was talked about earlier today.
Judge: Okay. It was talked about, but is the whole thing in evidence?
Stebbins: It's only two pages long, your honor. It's one of those police summaries --

Judge: I know. I'm asking is it in evidence.

Boyle: It was shown and there was no objection when we showed it earlier.

Judge: So we have no objection to it?

Panish: All right. So let's look at the second page. This is your statement to the police.

We'll go to the page -- the last sentence on the first page. It says --
You told the truth to the police, right, sir?

A Yes, I did.

Q (reading) "Gongaware did attend a meeting at the Carolwood residence a couple of

weeks prior to June 20th."

Does that refresh your recollection, sir?

A Not sure what they're talking about, but I was at meetings then.

Q Okay. (continues reading) "Gongaware was not sure of all present, but believed
Randy Phillips, Frank Dileo were there. Michael Jackson and Conrad Murray were
present."

Is that the meeting that you referred to with Dr Murray -- the only meeting that you
remember with Dr Murray?

A Right.

Q And then it says "the -- the topic of the meeting was Jacksons overall health."

A Yes.
Q That's what you were discussing, Mr. Jackson's health, correct?

A Issues -- I think it's right there, as well -- with diet, stamina, and so forth, yes.

Q This is what you told the police, sir?

A Yes.

Q And then it said Jackson had missed a rehearsal and was thought to be dancing at
home. Do you remember me asking you that, sir?

A Yes -- but you were asking if it was at this meeting, and I don't recall it being at this
meeting.

Q You told the police it was at this meeting, sir?

A No. I think the police have it wrong here.

Q Okay. So the police officer made a mistake?

A I don't recall the meeting where Michael was dancing at home and -- being the same
day as the health meeting.

Q And then it says "however, they discovered he was only watching video."

A Yes.

Q Did you learn that Mr. Jackson wasn't dancing at home, but he was only watching
video?

A I think there was an occasion when that was the case, yes.

Panish: Let's go to the first page, sir.

Judge: Just so you're aware, I have a juror who has to leave at 4:00, so --

Panish: Okay. We're good. No problem.

Judge: Okay. 9:45 tomorrow. Thank you.

(court adjourned f

JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013 - Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

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JACKSON V AEGLive May 28

Q Did you have meetings?

Q Have you spoken to Mr. Anschutz about this case?

A We produced a tour for Prince in '90 -- 2004, I think.

promotion and production?

Q Well sir, do you recall who Gabe Sutton is?

Q Sure. Tell me when you're ready.

A I don't recall it took place in North America. I don't recall that.

Putnam: Objection. Lacks foundation.

A Yes. On the second leg I was working directly for Michael.

Q Okay. Can you hear me okay, Mr. Gongaware?

Gongaware: I'm sorry. This is getting confusing.

Panish: Could i ask that it be read back?

Panish: No. I can do it. It's okay.

Judge: Okay. Let's continue.

deposition any changes?

Q Okay. When did you see it?

Panish: To the depo?

Q And how many hours did it last for?

plan of how this could work.

A I don't recall taking notes.

Putnam: Objection. Argumentative.

A Yeah. I believe so.

Q It's in your deposition as -- let me help you, if you'd like.

A That was my preference.

Q Dan Beckerman who is now the CEO of AEG?

Judge: Wait. He's referring to a portion not being asked about.

(reads email) -- To back off now would be a disaster for us.

A Not in this email, no.

Q And Mr. Ortega, is he working for AEG?

Mr. Jackson's health and ability to perform, correct?

A I don't know who Roger Friedman is.

Panish: Okay. Play it.

deposition. Page 98, line 16 to 20.

A I don't know what they tested for.

A Yes, I believe so.

So - take it down for one second.

negotiations with Dr. Murray?

Q Do you mention him anywhere in that paragraph, sir?

Q You don't recall -- or no, you didn't do it?

A I don't recall that.

A Sounds about right, yeah.

Q But that was what you call a production expense, right?

A I don't know what anybody else did in that regard.

Dr. Murray was listed as a production cost?

Panish: I'm going to move to strike as not responsive to the question.

A It's my job to get that show on the road.

A I don't think he's one of mine. My lawyer is Mr. Putnam.

Q "An explanation of the differences." What does that mean?

Putnam: Could he see the whole document?

A The project? Yes.

Q Sir, you said early June.

when you left the meeting?

one meeting, this is a different meeting.

A I don't recall. I think it was just Marvin.

Q (reading) "Gongaware did attend a meeting at the Carolwood residence a couple of

Did I read that right, sir?

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