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2013
Eric Briggs(exert I!IO"#$
Ju%ge& Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. Good afternoon. Okay. Someone wanted to talk to me?
's( C)h)*& Yes your honor. !here"s #ust a one$word errata correction to %r. Saunders" video that was
&layed on 'riday that we missed at the time( so for the #ury and for the record ) wanted to read the
correction *efore we *e+in with ,r. -ri++s.
'r( +)*ish& ) think you mean !hursday.
'r( +ut*),& !hursday.
's( C)h)*& !hursday.
'r( +ut*),& !here was an errata your honor that was overlooked( so #ust for the record at some
&oint we have to do it.
Ju%ge& Okay. .hat a*out what"s filed? %idn"t you already $$
's( C)h)*& .hat was filed was correct ) *elieve.
4( And you"re not inde&endent you"re *ein+ &aid *y this side over here aren"t you sir?
A( ) don"t a+ree with your characteri@ation of ;inde&endent.;
4( Sir you"re *ein+ &aid $$ you"re on one side? You"ve never worked with this side of the ta*le have
you sir?
A( -y ;this side; you mean the &anish law firm?
4( ) mean the &eo&le *rin+in+ the case. ,rs. Jackson and her children. You"re not workin+ for them
are you sir?
A( ) am not &erformin+ work in this matter for ,rs. Jackson or the &anish law firm.
4( You"re workin+ for AEG And the O",elveny = ,yers law firm correct?
'r( +ut*),& O*#ection( misstates testimony. /e"s not workin+ for A.E.G.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( )"m en+a+ed as an e2&ert witness in this matter *y O",elveny = ,yers and AEG Live.
'r( +)*ish& !hank you.
4( So you are workin+ for AEG Live correct?
A( ,y firm is *ein+ com&ensated *y AEG Live for my testimony my firm has *een hired *y AEG
Live.
4( Okay. So you"re on one side. You"re not inde&endent you"re on that side of the ta*le ri+ht sir?
A( )"m not sure ) understand what your 8uestion is +ettin+ at.
4( Okay. .ell let"s talk a*out your &ay for your com&any. ?ow first of all sir since July 3Ath the last
two weeks how many meetin+s have you had with counsel?
A( ) #ust want to make sure ) understand your 8uestion. You said my &ay or do you mean &ay to '!)
<onsultin+?
4( Sir how many meetin+s have you had with counsel since July 3Ath?
A( A&&ro2imately four to si2 meetin+s with counsel.
4( So in the last two weeks four to si2. /ow many hours have you worked in the last four $$ last $$
since July 3Ath?
A( A&&ro2imately :1 or 41 hours.
4( .ell sir you were here all day yesterday ri+ht?
A( ?o. Yesterday was a half day sir.
4( %idn"t you +o to the law firm and meet with the lawyers *efore you came here?
A( ) went to the law firm very *riefly *efore ) walked $$ *efore we came over here sir.
4( %id you +o to the law firm today *efore you came here?
A( Yes.
4( And what time did you +et there today?
A( A&&ro2imately 3>711 o"clock.
4( Okay. And you went to the law firm how many other times this week?
A( .ell )"ve *een to the law firm $$ well today is $$ today is !uesday so )"ve *een there ,onday and
!uesday this week.
4( /ow a*out the week *efore? /ow a*out the weekend? %id you meet them on the weekend?
A( ) did not meet the lawyers this &ast weekend.
4( /ow a*out the week *efore that?
A( %urin+ the week *efore ) had +one to the law firm.
4( /ow many times?
A( ) *elieve ) went there every day.
4( Okay. So that"s five days last week you went there and two days this week so far ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And how many hours a day did you +o there last week?
A( ) was there *etween four and si2 hours #ust de&endin+ on the day. Some days many fewer hours.
4( %id you drive there from your house?
A( Yes.
4( %id you *ill for the time of travel?
A( ?o.
4( So you don"t *ill for travel time at A11 an hour?
A( !hat"s not my customary &ractice.
4( Okay. So you don"t char+e them to drive and travel( is that ri+ht?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( asked and answered.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) did not char+e to drive and travel.
4( So you"re still +oin+ to stick with that :1 hours?
A( ) *elieve the answer ) +ave you is :1 to 41 hours as an a&&ro2imate. ) haven"t actually ta*ulated my
hours for the time &eriod.
4( Okay. .ere you u& in fifth floor watchin+ the trial when ,r. Erk testified?
A( ) was not.
4( Anyone from your firm there?
A( ?ot to my knowled+e.
4( .ho else from your firm has *een workin+ on this case since July 3Ath?
A( A +entleman *y the name of ,atthew ,ucinow 5&honetic6.
4( Anyone else?
A( ?ot materially. ) may have asked a 8uestion or two of some of my other staff mem*ers *ut nothin+
si+nificant.
4( And how many hours has ,atthew worked since July 3Ath?
A( On the order of five to ten.
4( And ,atthew sir $$ strike that. .ho is the +entleman that"s sittin+ in the front row there with the
+lasses on that"s *een comin+ with
You? .ho is that? <ould you stand u& sir? And who is he?
A( !hat"s Bich -uckner from O",elveny = ,yers.
4( And has he *een workin+ with you to &re&are you for your testimony?
A( ) have *een in meetin+s with Bich -uckner in advance of comin+ here today.
4( /ow many attorneys have you met with in this case sir?
A( Just to *e clear ;met; you mean shake hands or ;met; s&ent time in meetin+s with? ) want to
answer your 8uestion as *est as &ossi*le.
4( Let"s start with shake hands since you *rou+ht it u&.
A( )"ve &ro*a*ly shaken the hands of five or si2 different attorneys from O",elveny = ,yers.
4( And how many that worked with you for your testimony in meetin+s?
A( !hree.
4( .ho were they? ,s. Stron+ ,r. -uckner and who else?
A( Ale2 %avis.
4( And did Ale2 $$ is that a male or female?
A( 'emale.
4( And did they +ive you a scri&t of the 8uestions they were +oin+ to ask you?
A( ?o.
4( Okay. ?ow sir so then if ) understand it ri+ht you"ve $$ let"s #ust say 41 hours times A11. !hat"s
:1111 ri+ht?
A( Okay.
4( .ell you"re the economist. )s that the ri+ht math?
A( )t sounds ri+ht.
4( And ,r. $$ ,atthew let"s say ten hours. /e"s at C041 an hour ri+ht?
A( ) *elieve so.
4( .ell sir in fact other than you the &erson that"s *illed the most hours on this case is ,atthew isn"t
it?
A( ) *elieve so.
4( ,atthew has done the most work on this case hasn"t he?
A( ) don"t understand your characteri@ation of ;the most work.; if you"re sim&ly s&eakin+ to the
num*er of hours he worked ) su&&ose that"s ri+ht that sounds consistent.
4( .hy don"t you tell us what ,atthew"s e2&erience in the entertainment industry is for all the hours
of work he did in this case.
A( ,atthew"s *ack+round in the entertainment industry?
4( Yes. .hat year did ,atthew +raduate from colle+e?
A( ) *elieve in the last two years.
4( ,atthew has *een with your com&any for less than a year?
A( !hat"s consistent with my understandin+.
4( And ,atthew has a *achelor"s de+ree ri+ht?
A( !hat"s consistent with my understandin+.
4( And what was his ma#or sir?
A( ) don"t know.
4( You don"t know. So the man that worked with you other than yourself the most in this entire case
to run u& your *ill was ,atthew who"s *een out of colle+e less than two years and you don"t know
what his de+ree is in correct?
A( You"re &uttin+ a lot of thin+s in there. )"ve sim&ly stated that ,atthew *illed more hours than
&resuma*ly any of the mem*ers of the team( *ut your characteri@ation of ;worked as much; )"m #ust
concerned with.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out *illed hours sir. -ecause your firm $$ you +et &aid *y *illin+ hours don"t you?
A( Our firm +ets &aid in any num*er of ways de&endin+ on the en+a+ement.
4( )n this case sir how do you +et &aid?
A( )n this case we"re *illin+ hours.
4( And you kee& track of what you do don"t you sir?
A( .e kee& track of how many hours we work.
4( %o you kee& track of what you were workin+ on in those hours?
A( You mean in re+ards to a matter? .e kee& track that we"re s&endin+ hours on AEG
4( .ell you don"t say that ;)"m reviewin+ *ill*oard records; or ;)"m reviewin+ de&ositions; you don"t
s&ecify what work you did sir?
A( ?o as a &ractice ) have not done that.
4( And no one in your firm has done that?
A( .ell my firm has :111 &eo&le. ) can"t s&eak to the firm.
4( On this case sir.
A( Oh not to my knowled+e.
4( So you #ust +ive a *ill to the %efendants it doesn"t say what you did and they #ust &ay it( is that
ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( So no matter what you could #ust make u& a num*er of hours and they #ust &ay it no one checks
the work that you did in this case correct?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( calls for s&eculation.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( <an you restate the 8uestion &lease?
'r( +)*ish& Sure. Let"s start with the amount of money $$ if we add in another :1 and ,atthew let"s
say :0111 D
4( /ow much sir has your law firm $$ e2cuse me. /ow much sir have you char+ed the %efendants
in this case without itemi@in+ the work you did?
A( ) *elieve our total *ills in this matter are on the order of E or C911111.
4( )sn"t it a*out 911111 sir?
A( ) *elieve our total *ills in this matter are on the order of E or C911111.
4( Okay. .ell you"re the economist. <an you add them u& for me sir?
A( )"m +ivin+ you a rou+h estimate. ) don"t have a total of the hours )"ve s&ent on this matter.
4( .ell how a*out E41 $$ how is that? $$ thousand?
A( !hat"s in the ran+e of that ) stated.
4( Okay. .ell would you acce&t that as $$ you #ust said that so it"s E41111( is that ri+ht? You tell me
what it is. Or should ) write E to 911111? .hat should ) write?
A( .ell ) stated E to 911111 so $$
4( Okay. And it"s your testimony that you"re here as an inde&endent witness ri+ht?
A( ) am offerin+ my inde&endent o&inion here today.
4( .ell sir ,atthew in your firm $$ strike that. %o you know there"s another e2&ert on $$ on the issue
of losses of ,r. Jackson in this case retained *y the %efendant?
A( <an you state $$ another e2&ert on the issue of losses?
4( Yes.
A( ) understand $$ if you"re referencin+ ,r. Ackerman ) understand ,r. Ackerman is doin+ work
involvin+ dama+es. ) $$ if *y ;dama+es; you mean ;losses; then ) a+ree.
4( .ell isn"t dama+e a loss sir?
A( ) don"t $$ ) don"t want to +et into le+al definitions. )"m tryin+ to answer your 8uestion.
4( Okay. So there"s another e2&ert #ust like you in the field of dama+es retained *y the %efendants in
this case ri+ht sir?
A( )f we"re talkin+ a*out ,r. Ackerman yes.
4( And you reviewed his de&osition didn"t you sir?
A( ) did.
4( And what did he *ill as of the time of his de&osition?
A( ) don"t know.
4( You didn"t see his testimony in that re+ard sir?
A( ) don"t recall what he *illed as of the time of his de&osition.
4( .ell sir as of your de&osition you $$ you testified under oath you"d only worked 301 hours ri+ht?
A( ) *elieve so yes.
4( .ell sir did you read your de&osition *efore you came here to testify under oath?
A( Yes( ) #ust didn"t memori@e this s&ecific num*er of hours.
4( .ell would you like to look at your de&osition and refresh your recollection what your testimony
under oath was as to how many hours you have worked u& to that time?
A( )"m ha&&y to take a look at that.
4( Okay. So you don"t have any idea as you sit here today( is that ri+ht sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates his testimony ar+umentative.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) stated ) *elieve that is a&&ro2imately correct when you stated 301 hours.
'r( +)*ish& .ell )"m not tryin+ to *e a&&ro2imate sir )"m tryin+ to +et what you testified D
4( .hen you testified under oath did you tell the truth?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And do you remem*er testifyin+ under oath that as of your de&osition you worked 301 hours
on this case?
A( ) told you ) *elieve that"s correct.
4( Okay. And sir how many hours have you worked since your de&osition when you +ave your
o&inions in this case?
A( ) *elieve )"ve indicated durin+ direct a&&ro2imately 041 hours in total so a&&ro2imately >11
additional hours.
4( ,ore than you already worked ri+ht?
A( ) don"t understand the 8uestion.
4( Okay. .ell sir let"s mark e2hi*it 31:9 $$ let"s +o there. )f we can +ive counsel a co&y. !hese are
some of your *illin+ statements sir. ?ow sir you"re reviewed the *ills haven"t you sir? You"ve
reviewed your *ills *efore sir?
A( )n some cases yes.
4( )n this case?
A( ) haven"t reviewed all of the *ills in this matter. Some of the *ills ) was asked to take a look at
*efore they went to O",elveny = ,yers.
4( .ell does your com&any send out *ills that you don"t review?
A( )n some cases.
4( Okay. .ell let"s look at the first &a+e. Let"s see how you *ill. Sir how do you know $$ do you kee&
track of the hours that you work?
A( Yes.
4( /ow do you do that?
A( ) tell my assistant what num*er of hours ) s&end on each matter.
4( And does she write it down?
A( )"m not entirely sure what she does with that.
4( %oes she ty&e it u&?
A( ) $$ )"m not entirely sure what she does with it.
4( .ell let"s &ut u& this e2hi*it first. Okay. So $$ so do you know if your secretary accurately *ills
what you did sir?
A( ) can"t s&eak to the accuracy of the ste&s she takes.
4( .ell let"s look at this *ill here. 39.0 hours CA11 an hour that"s you ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And the total *ill C444:1 ri+ht?
A( !hat"s what the document says.
4( Okay. .hat did you do in those 39.0 hours sir?
A( ) was &erformin+ work related to this case.
4( .hat s&ecific work were you doin+ sir?
A( )"ve done a lot of work in re+ards to this case. ) was &ro*a*ly reviewin+ documents &re&arin+ for
my de&osition any num*er of thin+s durin+ the course of that 39 hours.
4( Sir can you tell us here today under oath s&ecifically what you did to *ill that C30A:1 in this *ill
that you su*mitted?
A( <onductin+ research and &re&arin+ for my de&osition.
4( Okay. .hat were you researchin+ sir?
A( Fresuma*ly $$ &resuma*ly *ack+round related to ,ichael Jackson and other relevant matters.
Ju%ge& Yes.
4( )s that everythin+ you *rou+ht to your de&osition sir?
A( ?o.
4( Are these the e2hi*its to your de&osition?
A( E2cuse me. !hese are the e2hi*its to ,r. Erk"s trial testimony.
4( Are these the e2hi*its to your de&osition?
A( !hese are the e2hi*its to my de&osition and some additional documents that were $$ these are for
,r. Erk. !hese are e2hi*its from ,r. Erk"s de&osition.
4( So this is everythin+ that you *rou+ht all the work you did in this case written work for the
CE41111 ri+ht?
A( -rou+ht where?
4( !o your de&osition. !his is what you +enerated in this case ri+ht?
A( !hat is not the e2tent of the documents ) *rou+ht to my de&osition. )"ve said this a few times.
4( .ell sir here"s your de&osition. All the documents you *rou+ht were attached to your de&osition
weren"t they sir?
A( !hat"s not correct.
4( .hat wasn"t attached to your de&osition?
A( .ell ) *rou+ht the full de&osition transcri&ts of a num*er of medical e2&erts that were relevant in
formin+ my o&inion ) *rou+ht the full de&osition transcri&ts of a num*er of *usiness mana+ers that
were relevant in formin+ my o&inion.
4( Sir you didn"t +enerate those de&osition $$
Ju%ge& /e"s not finished ,r. Fanish.
'r( +)*ish& !he 8uestion was ;+enerated.; *ut +o ahead.
A( )"m s&eakin+ to what ) *rou+ht. ) wanted to *e as &re&ared as &ossi*le( and ) thou+ht ,r. Sanders
Flaintiffs" counsel would *e askin+ me very s&ecific to&ics ;what did you see in this de&osition a*out
,r. Jackson"s $$; ) wanted to *e &re&ared $$
'r( +)*ish& <an you #ust tell us what you *rou+ht?
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish let him finish. /old on to your 8uestion.
A( As ) said ) *rou+ht full de&osition transcri&ts for a variety of *usiness mana+ers full de&osition
transcri&ts for ,r. Fhilli&s and Gon+aware full de&osition transcri&ts for medical e2&erts. ) *rou+ht a
num*er of articles 8 score data. ) *rou+ht the full de&osition for ,r. Erk ) *elieve &erha&s for ,r.
'ormu@is as well as the full e2hi*it set for ,r. Erk.
'r( +)*ish& So let"s +et *ack to my 8uestion sir. ) want to know everythin+ that you *rou+ht that you
+enerated.
4( You didn"t +enerate the de&ositions did you sir?
A( )f *y ;+enerate; you mean work &roduct ) cited no ) did not create the de&ositions.
4( And everythin+ that"s contained in your little file here is everythin+ that you +enerated on this case
correct?
A( ) a+ree.
4( Okay. !hank you. ?ow the first &a+e read what that is.
A( )"m sorry. ) $$ ) want to +o *ack to that &revious answer. -y your definition of ;+enerated; there are
documents here that were e2hi*its that ) clearly didn"t +enerate in the sense that this is an e$mail for
e2am&le *y Faul Gon+aware( and ) #ust want to *e &recise in my answer.
4( .e"ll +et to that.
A( Okay.
4( .hat"s the first e2hi*it?
A( E2hi*it 3.
4( .hat"s it entitled?
'r( +ut*),& Your honor does he have to *e u& there while he"s askin+? ) mean $$
Ju%ge& .ell do you have that at your $$
'r( +)*ish& ) don"t have it.
's( Str-*g& !hey"re e2hi*its to his de&osition your honor.
'r( +ut*),& )n order.
'r( +)*ish& <ome on.
Ju%ge& You can come u& and look at it too.
'r( +)*ish& You can come u& here too if you want.
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish let me tell them.
'r( +)*ish& Okay.
4( ?ow can you read what e2hi*it 3 to your de&osition is sir?
A( You"d like me to read the to& of the &iece of &a&er?
4( )s there a title to it sir?
A( )t"s not really a total title it"s #ust a framework. !hese are #ust shorthand notes. -ut )"m ha&&y to
read it. ;O&inions re+ardin+ the dama+e analysis of Flaintiffs" e2&erts Erk and 'ormu@is o&inions
re+ardin+ the income +enerated *y E.,.J.; which is the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
4( Okay. %id you &re&are that sir?
A( ) &re&ared this document.
4( Okay. !hat"s one thin+ you *rou+ht to your de&osition ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( !he ne2t thin+ is what?
A( !his is a series of raw 8 score data that ) *rou+ht to my de&osition.
4( Okay. And the ne2t thin+ that D
Ju%ge& You"re +oin+ throu+h ta*s ri+ht?
'r( +)*ish& Bi+ht.
4( And the ne2t thin+ is a series of articles a*out canceled concerts? )s that a fair statement?
A( !hat"s correct. ) *rou+ht a num*er of articles a*out &rominent artists cancelin+ tours or cancelin+
concert dates.
4( )s that a yes?
A( Yes. )"m #ust *ein+ s&ecific.
4( Okay. And then tell me if ) miss anythin+ $$
A( You did. E2cuse me.
A( )t a&&ears so yes.
4( So you didn"t really +enerate them you asked for them and they sent these to you ri+ht?
A( A+ain in terms of &a&er documents ) +enerated those were documents that were &rinted and that )
*rou+ht with me.
4( So that"s a*out a half an inch ri+ht?
A( Okay.
4( )s that ri+ht?
A( )t a&&ears so.
4( Okay. So let"s talk a*out now sir the materials that you reviewed in this case. %id you &re&are any
de&osition summaries?
A( ?o. ) read all the de&ositions in full.
4( Okay. And all the de&ositions you read you didn"t take any summary notes did you?
A( ?o $$ ) didn"t take any written notes.
4( So you remem*er it all in your head?
A( ) remem*er the key &oints( and in many cases where there were critical &oints to formin+ my
o&inion ) noted them here on this o&inion sheet you referenced earlier.
4( )"m +oin+ to +et to that.
A( Okay.
4( !ell me how many de&osition $$ strike that. !ell me the names of all the de&ositions you reviewed
in this case sir. %o you have a list of that anywhere?
A( Of every sin+le de&osition )"ve reviewed?
4( Yes.
A( ) $$ ) don"t have a list of that somewhere.
4( .hy don"t you tell us from your memory $$ you didn"t write down and document what you
reviewed in this case sir?
A( ) wrote down and documented the de&ositions and the trial testimony $$ e2cuse me $$ the
de&ositions that were critical to formin+ my o&inion. )"m ha&&y to share that list with you.
4( Sir that wasn"t my 8uestion. <ould you &lease listen to my 8uestion. %id you ever make a list of all
A( ) do not.
4( You don"t have any summaries of the de&ositions do you sir?
A( Just to *e clear the &a+e references on my sheet of o&inions are indicative of the key &arts of the
de&ositions ) identified.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor could you ask the witness to answer the 8uestion?
Ju%ge& !he 8uestion was summaries. %o you have a summary?
A( !o the e2tent that"s not considered a summary ) don"t have a summary.
'r( +)*ish& Okay.
4( So tell us the names of all the de&ositions of the 31111 &a+es that you reviewed sir.
A( .ell ) can share with you the names of the &eo&le de&osed that were critical in formin+ my
o&inion. )"m ha&&y to do that.
4( ,y 8uestion a+ain sir &lease tell us all the de&ositions that you reviewed in this case to run u& a
CE41111 *ill.
A( ) cannot +ive you an e2haustive list of every &erson"s de&osition that ) reviewed in con#unction with
this case.
4( Okay. So without lookin+ at your notes tell me what you remem*er you reviewed sir.
A( %e&ositions?
4( Yes.
A( Sure. Earley %r. 'ormu@is %r. Shimelman %r. Schnoll %r. Levounis -ill Ackerman Faul
Gon+aware Bandy Fhilli&s -ranca Sherman .hitman Se+al Katherine Jackson Frince Jackson
Faris Jackson. ) think that"s the e2tent of my memory.
4( /ow many is that ,r. -oyle? 34 de&ositions you"ve reviewed. !hat"s your *est recollection you
can"t tell us anythin+ else in this case ri+ht?
A( !hat"s off the to& of my head.
4( )sn"t it true you reviewed ,r. /awk"s de&osition?
A( !hank you. Yes. ) did a*solutely.
4( ?ow tell us a*out all the trial testimony that you reviewed sir.
A( You mean individuals that a&&eared at trial?
4( .ell did you review testimony other than testimony of individuals at the trial?
A( ) reviewed the o&enin+ statements *y *oth &arties.
4( Oh you also reviewed the summary #ud+ment motion didn"t you sir?
A( )"m not sure s&ecifically what document you"re referencin+.
4( So you don"t remem*er testifyin+ under oath in your de&osition that you reviewed the motion for
summary #ud+ment the o&&osition to the motion for summary #ud+ment in this case?
A( ) $$ ) do recall that yes. ) know what you"re referencin+.
4( And you reviewed the court order re+ardin+ the summary #ud+ment in this case didn"t you sir?
A( !his is the #ud+e"s res&onse to these motions?
4( Yes.
A( ) recall them now yes.
4( You reviewed that?
A( Yes.
4( And you also sir reviewed trial $$ you reviewed ,r. Futnam"s o&enin+ statement( is that ri+ht?
A( And yours as well yes.
4( And is that common $$ well strike that. )t"s not common *ecause you"ve never come to court like
this and $$ and 8ualified as an e2&ert witness have you sir?
A( As ) testified )"ve only a&&eared in G.K. ta2 court ) was 8ualified in that realm.
4( Let me ask you a+ain sir. /ave you ever come to a court like this with a #ury and 8ualified as an
e2&ert witness yes or no?
A( ?ot like this settin+.
4( )s the answer no sir?
A( !he answer is no.
4( ?ow let"s +et *ack to the trial testimony you reviewed. !ell me all the trial testimony you reviewed.
A( A+ain this is off the to& of my head so ) mi+ht *e missin+ &eo&le.
A( <orrect.
4( %id you verify whether that was true or not?
A( ) want to *e clear. ) was answerin+ your &revious 8uestion. !he fi+ures were from your 8uestions to
,r. Erk. ) didn"t verify those fi+ures. )n fact some of them seemed a *it off( *ut ) relied on that
testimony for sake of creatin+ the chart.
4( Sir where do you +o to find out what record sales are?
A( )t really de&ends. )t de&ends on if you *elieve claim sales or B.).A. Sales.
4( B.).A( what does that stand for?
A( )t"s a trade or+ani@ation.
4( .hat"s it stand for sir?
A( H1 &ercent of the time it"s one of those acronyms ) can"t +et strai+ht. Becordin+ institute somethin+.
4( You don"t know what it stands for sir?
A( Feo&le normally use B.).A( no different than ,.F.A.A( )t"s #ust an acronym.
4( Sir do you know what it stands for?
A( ) don"t recall.
4( /ow many al*ums do you have to sell to +o &latinum?
A( 3 million.
4( /ow many do you have to sell to +o +old?
A( 411111.
4( /ow many do you have to sell to +o diamond?
A( 31 million. )"m sorry. !o *e clear those would *e certified units #ust to *e clear under the B.).A( as
o&&osed to claimed units which is a different su*+rou&.
4( And the lar+est sellin+ al*um in the world history is ;!hriller;( is that ri+ht sir?
A( ) *elieve that"s correct.
4( And how many did it sell?
A( .ell the chart stated a*out E4 million.
'r( +)*ish& /ow many $$ your honor could we a&&roach the *ench for a minute &lease?
(Si%e.)r$&
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ,s. Stron+ kee&s lookin+ over at me makin+ faces makin+ noises tryin+ to
disru&t me. )"ve looked at you three times to do somethin+ a*out it( and if the court"s not +oin+ to do
anythin+ then )"m +oin+ to have to take matters into my own hand and do somethin+. She should *e
admonished to sto& that. )t"s very distractin+ turnin+ at me makin+ faces and comments to me durin+
my e2amination. Last 'riday ) was chastised for not even makin+ an im&ro&er comment to the court
which you thou+ht ) did and ) was chastised for that. ,s. Stron+ continues to do it to me to disru&t
and u&set me. And if it ha&&ens a+ain )"m tellin+ the court )"m +oin+ to take action myself.
Ju%ge& .ell no you"re not +oin+ to take $$ you"re not +oin+ to take any action.
'r( +)*ish& )"ve asked you to do somethin+.
Ju%ge& .ait a minute. You"re not +oin+ to take any action that ) don"t +ive you &ermission to do first
of all.
'r( +)*ish& )"m askin+ you to &lease do somethin+.
Ju%ge& ) understand and )"m +oin+ to address it ri+ht now. ,s. Stron+?
's( Str-*g& Your honor ) have not made any comments. )"ve sat throu+h +ivin+ several e2aminations
with hearin+ ,r. Fanish in front of me audi*ly commentin+ on every 8uestion turnin+ around in his
chair and starin+ at me. ) never said a word a*out it your honor until the #ury left and you asked what
ha&&ened. ) never commented. )"m not makin+ any faces at ,r. Fanish. ) look at ,r. Fanish
occasionally. ) will try not to do that if that causes a &ro*lem your honor( *ut )"ve not said a word to
,r. Fanish )"ve not done anythin+ under my *reath unlike what ha&&ens with Flaintiffs" counsel
re&eatedly.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true.
's( Str-*g& So ) really do not a&&reciate the alle+ations that are com&letely unfounded.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ) looked at you several times and &ointed to her when she was doin+ that and
she"s $$
Ju%ge& ) didn"t hear anythin+. She has a much softer voice than you do.
's( Str-*g& ) didn"t say a word your honor.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true and she"s doin+ it on &ur&ose.
Ju%ge& ,r. -oyle what"s +oin+ on?
'r( B-yle& She $$ there"s a lot of smilin+ lau+hin+ and +runtin+ and lookin+ over at me -rian the
#ury.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. .ell #ust $$ can you kee& your direction kind of forward( resist you know any $$
's( Str-*g& A*solutely. ) *elieve all of us look at the #urors occasionally as we are all tau+ht to do
your honor. -ut certainly.
'r( +)*ish& -y who? .ho tau+ht you to do that? !hat"s another im&ro&er thin+.
Ju%ge& !here"s nothin+ im&ro&er a*out that.
'r( +)*ish& She"s lookin+ at me your honor( and if she does it a+ain )"m +oin+ to do somethin+.
Ju%ge& ) understand.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor #ust for the record ) want to make sure you"re not +ivin+ ,r. Fanish
&ermission to do somethin+ if he $$
Ju%ge& Of course not. ) made it clear to him.
'r( +ut*),& /e #ust threatened to do the same.
'r( +)*ish& )"m tryin+ to make the court aware of what"s +oin+ on. )f it doesn"t sto& and the court is
una*le to make it sto& we"ll see.
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish there is no ;we"ll see; a*out anythin+. You can ask to a&&roach side*ar and ) will
deal with it. -ut there"s no ;we"ll see; a*out anythin+. Okay? ) think your voice carries a lot further( so
if ) hear you under your *reath it"s much easier to hear you than her. )f she"s doin+ somethin+ you
know &erha&s ) #ust don"t hear what"s +oin+ on. -ut )"m tellin+ her now kee& $$ kee& $$
's( Str-*g& ) did not make any comments and ) will not do so.
'r( +)*ish& She"s +runtin+.
's( Str-*g& Oh my +oodness.
'r( +)*ish& Yes you are. ) mean you can lie a*out it( *ut we all saw you do it.
'r( B-yle& You *oth are. -ut your honor $$
'r( +ut*),& ,e too?
'r( B-yle& $$ ,r. Futnam and ,s. Stron+ it"s like a little s8ueakfest of +runtin+ and lau+hin+. And the
#ury will see them. )f they think that"s their techni8ue to try to discredit ,r. Fanish *y doin+ that that"s
at their own &eril *ut it is distractin+ to the 8uestions.
'r( +ut*),& 'or the sake of the record we feel no need or desire to discredit ,r. Fanish in any
measure in his &resent 8uestionin+ of the witness nor are we tryin+ to do so.
'r( B-yle& ) note for the record the smirk on his face.
'r( +)*ish& .hich he continues to do and he thinks that"s funny his little smirk.
's( Ste..i*s& Sometimes &eo&le smile your honor. ) don"t think that"s distractin+ or offensive. )
&ersonally yesterday could not even hear ,s. Stron+"s testimony 5sic6 *ecause ,r. Fanish"s comments
were so audi*le. )"m sittin+ a few feet further *ack *ut ) do not *elieve these attorneys are intentionally
distractin+ ,r. Fanish. !hey"ll do their *est to not look at him.
Ju%ge& %on"t look in his direction no +runtin+ or +roanin+ or anythin+.
's( Str-*g& ) don"t think there"s any sound like that $$
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish same to you.
'r( +)*ish& ) didn"t do one sin+le thin+ yesterday. ) didn"t talk.
's( Str-*g& !hat would not *e true.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .e"ll see what ha&&ens.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& You may continue.
'r( +)*ish& ?ow sir in readin+ all the materials in this case you understand the %efendants say that
they"re not res&onsi*le for any dama+es in this case correct?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( outside the sco&e of his o&inions to the e2tent he"s seekin+ a le+al conclusion
your honor in terms of lia*ility.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( <an you $$ can you restate the 8uestion &lease?
'r( +)*ish& <an ) have it read *ack?
Ju%ge& Yes.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%$
A( )"m not entirely sure what the %efendants have stated they are res&onsi*le for.
4( Sir you listened to ,r. Futnam"s o&enin+ statement you read it didn"t you?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And you read the summary #ud+ment motion didn"t you sir?
A( .e"re referencin+ the documents *ack and forth that $$
4( Yes.
A( Yes ) read that.
4( And ,r. Futnam said they"re not res&onsi*le and they owe nothin+ didn"t he sir?
A( )t"s &ossi*le. ) don"t really recall focusin+ on those s&ecifics as&ects of the ar+ument. ) was asked
here for a very s&ecific task.
4( So as far as you know then the %efendants may *e admittin+ that they owe dama+es( is that ri+ht
sir?
A( ) don"t *elieve the %efendants are admittin+ that.
4( Okay. So they"re not admittin+ it( *ut #ust in case you"re here in case they find they do owe money
to say whatever they owe is minimal( is that ri+ht?
A( ) don"t think you"re a&&ro&riately characteri@in+ my o&inion. ) was asked to offer an o&inion
re+ardin+ a Flaintiffs" dama+es analysis which ) came to find s&eculative.
4( You don"t have any o&inions of your own do you sir?
A( ) don"t understand the 8uestion. ) have an o&inion with res&ect to ,ichael Jackson"s future work
income. )"m ha&&y to share it.
4( And your o&inion as re+ards to ,r. Jackson"s future work income is that he would earn no money(
is that ri+ht?
A( ,y o&inion is that it is s&eculative to &ro#ect he would earn income from work as distin+uished
from income from other sources like his catalo+s and the like.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Sir $$ your honor could ) $$
Ju%ge& Yes. You need $$ do you want it re$read?
'r( +)*ish& ) want him to answer the 8uestions.
Ju%ge& Be$read the 8uestion.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%$
'r( +ut*),& And then he &rovided his o&inion your honor. /e +ave the answer.
'r( +)*ish& Sir $$ can we ask the 8uestion to *e read *ack a+ain? And )"d ask that the witness &lease
your honor answer the 8uestion.
Ju%ge& Be$read it.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%6
A( ) $$ ) *elieve ) testified ) was concerned a*out le+al definitions and ) was uncomforta*le answerin+
that 8uestion.
Ju%ge& So does that mean no then? 'or whatever $$ whether you were uncomforta*le or whatever it
was no you didn"t have an o&inion concernin+ earnin+ ca&acity?
A( ) $$ ) *elieve that"s what ) testified at the time.
Ju%ge& !hat you don"t have an o&inion?
A( -ut to the e2tent that ,r. Erk"s analysis relates to earnin+ ca&acity of course then ) have an o&inion.
) was #ust concerned a*out the le+al definitions in this matter as )"m not an attorney.
'r( +)*ish& Let"s &lay the de&osition. Flay 0E0 lines 33 and 3>.
's( Str-*g& <an ) look at it a moment *efore you &lay it? -ecause ) have a feelin+ $$
'r( +)*ish& ) haven"t &layed it yet.
's( Str-*g& .hat was the &a+e num*er?
'r( +)*ish& 0E0 lines 33 to >>.
's( Str-*g& %o you have the testimony? )t"s not the same 8uestion that he"s askin+.
Ju%ge& ?o ) don"t.
's( Str-*g& Should we +et you a co&y?
'r( +)*ish& Let me ask one more 8uestion to make it &erfect.
4( You understand there"s a distinction *etween loss of income $$ or loss of earnin+ ca&acity and loss
of earnin+s correct?
A( ) have a +eneral understandin+ as a lay&erson yes. ) couldn"t $$
4( And you"re not here to offer an o&inion a*out the distinction *etween earnin+ ca&acity and loss of
earnin+s are you sir?
A( On the distinction s&ecifically? )"m not here to offer that form a le+al o&inion no.
4( And you"re not here to offer any testimony re+ardin+ the loss of earnin+ ca&acity in any way sha&e
or form are you sir?
A( ,y o&inion relates to ,r. Erk"s analysis which ) *elieve s&eaks to earnin+ ca&acity so my o&inion
relates to earnin+ ca&acity.
4( Okay. And earnin+ ca&acity means what someone could earn ri+ht?
A( Earnin+ ca&acity means to me what someone could *e reasona*ly e2&ected to earn.
4( Okay. .ell you don"t know what the definition of ;earnin+ ca&acity; is do you sir?
A( ;Earnin+ ca&acity; to me means what someone could *e reasona*ly e2&ected to earn.
4( .here did you +et that definition sir?
A( !hat"s my understandin+.
4( .ho +ave it to you?
A( )t"s a $$ it"s a su*#ect that )"ve discussed with the attorneys in this matter.
4( .ell have you seen the le+al #ury instruction for earnin+ ca&acity in this case?
A( ) *elieve so.
's( Str-*g& O*#ection to the e2tent he"s su++estin+ there actually is a #ury instruction in this case. )
don"t *elieve your honor has ruled on #ury instructions yet.
Ju%ge& ) haven"t ruled on #ury instructions true.
'r( +)*ish& -ut he talked to the attorneys a*out it and there is an instruction.
Ju%ge& Okay. /e"s talked to the attorneys. You can e2&lore that.
4( !ell me sir what is the le+al definition of loss of earnin+ ca&acity?
A( Loss of e2&ected earnin+ $$
's( Str-*g& Your honor #ust o*#ection to the e2tent that he"s askin+ this witness to o&ine a*out what
the law is. You will instruct the #ury on the law and he"s not here to recite the law for the #ury.
Ju%ge& Okay. /e"s not to recite the law to you. )"ll *e +ivin+ you the law at the end of the case. -ut )"m
+oin+ to allow counsel to e2&lore if he understands what the definition is *ecause some*ody else told
him what the le+al definition was he read it somewhere. )"m +oin+ to allow counsel to do that( *ut
ultimately )"m +oin+ to +ive you what the definition is.
'r( +)*ish& Earnin+ ca&acity.
4( !here"s differences *etween earnin+ ca&acity and loss of earnin+s isn"t there sir?
's( Str-*g& And same o*#ections your honor. )f ) can have a runnin+ o*#ection on this.
Ju%ge& You can have a runnin+ o*#ection. Overruled. ) instructed them already.
'r( +)*ish& %o you understand the 8uestion sir?
A( You"ve asked me if there"s a difference *etween the two of them( and as a lay&erson ) understand
there is a difference *etween a loss of earnin+s and a loss of earnin+ ca&acity.
4( So are you testifyin+ here as lay&erson or as a financial e2&ert?
A( )"m testifyin+ as a financial e2&ert and not a le+al e2&ert.
4( Bi+ht. .ell sir in fact you"ve never come to court and +iven an o&inion a*out someone"s loss of
income in a wron+ful death case have you sir?
A( ) have not done that.
4( And you"ve never assessed some*ody"s loss of income under the le+al statutes in a case other than
this in a wron+ful death case have you sir?
A( ?ot in a wron+ful death case.
4( )n a &ersonal in#ury case you"ve never a&&lied the standards for a loss of income for some*ody
that"s *een in#ured in a case that comes to court like this have you sir?
A( )n a &ersonal in#ury case no.
4( Bi+ht. And sir you"ve never testified a*out 8uantification of dama+es have you sir?
A( .ell much of the work )"ve *een de&osed re+ardin+ and testified re+ardin+ has involved
8uantitative analysis forecastin+ income forecastin+ risks and so forth. And ) *elieve ) testified in my
de&osition that analyses &layed into a dama+es calculation.
4( Sir $$ can ) have the 8uestion read *ack and $$ )"ll ask it a+ain. /ave you ever testified in a case
re+ardin+ 8uantification of dama+es yes or no?
A( ) *elieve so yes.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Let"s look at your de&osition. And that will *e startin+ at &a+e >HA line 30 $$ let"s
start with that.
A. In each of the %% my recollection is that in each of the cases I ha$e testified there has !een a
(uantitati$e analysis. As I sit here today, I cannot say with certainty if that was part of a damages
aspect of a case or some other aspect of a case.
4( ?ow sir you"ve never done any &ro#ection of loss of earnin+s of anyone in any case ever have
you?
A( ) have not done &ro#ection of loss of earnin+s in any case.
4( So the answer to that 8uestion is yes correct?
A( ) have not done $$ ) have not done that &ro#ection.
4( And sir $$ and you"ve never sir in a case ever +iven an o&inion or assessed the loss of earnin+
ca&acity of anyone have you sir?
A( ) have not.
4( And sir you told us you"ve *een workin+ for 34 years in your field( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And that"s 34 years doin+ all as&ects of the work you do ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And in 34 years how many $$ do you work 41 weeks a year sir?
A( Sometimes more.
4( So do you work 44 weeks a year?
A( ?o.
4( So have you $$ do you work 4> weeks a year sir?
A( ) certainly have.
4( Okay. So how many $$ in 34 years in all 34 years you"ve worked 4> weeks a year is that what
you"re tellin+ us?
A( !hat"s not what ) said.
4( .hat"s the avera+e over 34 years?
A( ) would +uess 41.
4( Okay. So 41 times 34 that"s 941 weeks $$ ri+ht? $$ that you"ve worked in your work life so far?
A( Okay.
4( %o you a+ree with that?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And you told us you"ve *een in a thousand entertainment &ro#ects where you"ve done
forecasts( is that ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And how many other &ro#ects have you worked on other than entertainment?
A( Fro*a*ly > or 011.
4( So you"ve worked on 3011 &ro#ects in 941 weeks( is that ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s &ro*a*ly ri+ht.
4( And so the avera+e would *e a*out a half a week &er &ro#ect?
A( Oh a*solutely not. You"re #ust takin+ one divided *y another. !hat"s not $$
4( So the answer is no ri+ht?
A( ?o.
4( So can you tell us sir one of your o&inions you have on your sheet $$ let"s &ull that u&. !hat"s
e2hi*it $$ let"s see. !he first &a+e e2hi*it 31:4. ?o that"s not 31:4. )"m sorry. !hat is e2hi*it num*er $$
e2hi*it 3 to your de&osition. !hat"s e2hi*it num*er 3>H9H defense e2hi*it. %o you have it there sir?
%o you have it in front of you?
A( ) do.
4( You"ve yellowed certain thin+s. Are those critical to you?
A( !hey"re reminders.
4( Okay. And so sir in one of your o&inions as to why ,ichael Jackson would not +et any
endorsements you have $$ one of your *ases for your o&inion is de*t( is that ri+ht sir? Let"s &ut that u&.
)f we +o down under ;endorsements; *ullet &oints ;challen+es; you have ;dru+ usa+e child a*use.;
Are you sayin+ he was convicted of child a*use sir?
A( )"m not sayin+ that. !hat"s not correct.
4( .ell you wrote that there didn"t you ;child a*use;?
Ju%ge& ,s. Stron+ )"ve overruled every one of your o*#ections. )t"s the same +rounds.
's( Str-*g& Gnderstood. Gnfortunately ) don"t *elieve that $$
Ju%ge& You don"t have to *elieve. You #ust have to listen and a*ide.
'r( +)*ish& )"m +oin+ to ask that she sto& talkin+.
's( Str-*g& ) understand. -ut the witness is in an uncomforta*le &osition *ecause there is information
he can"t reveal.
Ju%ge& Let"s +o to side*ar.
(Si%e.)r$&
's( Str-*g& Your honor there"s an issue $$
Ju%ge& ?o. You"re +oin+ to listen to me. ) have made a rulin+. )"ve listened to every sin+le o*#ection
and every +round and )"ve overruled every one. )"m not +oin+ to listen to any more.
's( Str-*g& Okay your honor.
Ju%ge& ) don"t care how uncomforta*le your witness is. .itnesses sometimes *ecome uncomforta*le
with 8uestions that are *ein+ asked. !hey need to answer them. )"ve overruled every one of your
o*#ections. ) don"t want to hear any more.
's( Str-*g& )t"s confidential information.
Ju%ge& ) don"t want to hear any more. )"ve heard your o*#ection.
's( Str-*g& /e can"t answer the 8uestion.
Ju%ge& )"ve heard your o*#ection )"m overrulin+ it.
's( Str-*g& -ut you haven"t heard me. <an ) &lease e2&lain the *asis your honor?
's( Ste..i*s& /e may *e sued.
's( Str-*g& /e"s su*#ect to confidentiality in another matter. )t"s not this case your honor.
Ju%ge& !hen he can #ust say ;)"m not +oin+ to answer.;
's( Str-*g& <an ) let him know $$ can ) s&eak with him?
's( Ste..i*s& <an we have a moment to $$
's( Str-*g& ) don"t want him to *e sued *y the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
'r( +)*ish& /e"s not an attorney. /ow could there *e an attorneyJclient &rivile+e with an e2&ert?
's( Str-*g& /e"s not an e2&ert for them.
'r( +)*ish& /e"s not a client of anyone and not an attorney.
'r( +ut*),& $$ Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
'r( +)*ish& Just *ecause you"re an e2&ert there is no attorneyJclient &rivile+e.
's( Ste..i*s& Let me finish your honor. ) don"t know why he *elieves there"s a &rivile+e. .e"ve never
8uestioned him on that o*viously *ecause it was not the *asis of his o&inions. /is o&inion was *ased
on the testimony a*out ,r. Jackson"s de*t and the amount that was testified a*out. ) don"t think it"s any
of the *ases of his o&inion. An e2&ert is only to *e crossed on the *ases for their o&inion. )n terms of $$
'r( +)*ish& -ut if he says there"s de*t ) think it"s fair +ame.
's( Str-*g& -ased on testimony in the case.
'r( +)*ish& /e knows differently. .hat they"re tryin+ to do here is $$
's( Str-*g& /e actually doesn"t know differently.
'r( +)*ish& $$ &ull a rouse here with this witness. !hey knew all alon+ that this was an issue. !hey
chose to &ut him forward as an e2&ert. )f he"s not +oin+ to answer all of these fully his testimony
should *e stricken *ecause they &ut him forward your honor they knew $$ they have another e2&ert
*ut they wanted to use this +uy. !hey chose to &ut the testimony on. !hey were aware of this alle+ed
conflict they knew all a*out it yet they chose to +o forward.
'r( +ut*),& .hat"s the rouse?
's( Ste..i*s& !here"s not a conflict.
'r( +)*ish& !he rouse is $$
Ju%ge& ) want to hear ,s. -ina.
's( Ste..i*s& ) think the witness is #ust askin+ for the court to order him to testify so that he doesn"t
lose his #o*.
Ju%ge& Bi+ht. )f there"s a court order to do it ) don"t see how he could *e held in *reach when there"s
an order that he res&ond.
's( Ste..i*s& ) think that"s all he was askin+ for ri+ht now. )f the court is inclined to order him to
res&ond ) do think it"s *eyond the sco&e. .e"ve made that o*#ection you"ve ruled on it. 'or his own
comfort ) would ask that you order him $$
Ju%ge& Okay.
's( Ste..i*s& ) think that was the issue that came u&.
'r( B-yle& Just for the record as far as )"m aware there was no su*&oena to the Estate no su*&oena to
Sony to find out the value of the A!I <atalo+.
's( Str-*g& ) have it actually at my desk. !here were s&ecific re8uests and the Estate e2&licitly
refused. .e asked for information a*out the assets of ,ichael Jackson from Flaintiffs as well( they did
not &roduce that information. .e met and conferred with the Estate s&ecifically on the value of the
Sony A!I <atalo+ at the time of death( a+ain the Estate refused to &rovide it. A+ain the Flaintiffs are
the *eneficiaries of the Estate. )f they could release it $$ ) ima+ine that they could +et access to it your
honor as *eneficiaries to the Estate( *ut it"s somethin+ we"ve never had access to and it sounds like the
value of it is less than the de*t.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true and then we"re +oin+ to now show $$ +et the documents to show it"s not
true.
's( Str-*g& .ell you have access to them as Flaintiffs and *eneficiaries of the Estate. ) antici&ate
you have a *etter chance of +ettin+ it.
'r( +)*ish& .e"re +oin+ to issue a su*&oena ri+ht now for ,r. -ri++s who did the valuations.
Ju%ge& )t seems like it would *e easier to +et it from the Estate.
'r( B-yle& You would think.
'r( +)*ish& You would think *ut it"s not *ecause they"ve *een fi+htin+ us on everythin+ in this case.
's( Ste..i*s& !here mi+ht *e notice re8uirements to the Estate or what have you.
's( Str-*g& All of this we made very clear at the de&osition. !his issue did come u& your honor and
he said $$ we made clear that we don"t have access to it it"s not the *asis of o&inion to the e2tent he"s
s&eakin+ to the de*t. ,r. Ackerman has made o&inions with res&ect to the de*t *ased on financial
accountin+ records and *ased on information &rovided *y the *usiness advisors( and that"s the e2tent of
the de*t. !hey asked some 8uestions s&ecifically ;%o you know the value of the Sony A!I <atalo+?;
.hich drew u& this issue. )f they didn"t ask it in that way your honor he could have referred to the
evidence in this case that indicates that ,ichael Jackson had de*t at the time of his death.
'r( +)*ish& -ut he didn"t do that.
'r( +ut*),& .e"re not allowed this information. )sn"t this a collateral source rule? .e are +oin+ to *e
a*le to *rin+ u& now ) ho&e $$
'r( +)*ish& ?o. /e kee&s *rin+in+ u& the collateral source which is the &assive income. /e"s *rou+ht
it u& three times in violation of motion in limine.
's( Str-*g& %urin+ life.
'r( +)*ish& %urin+ your $$ no no. .hen ) #ust asked him a 8uestion a*out future earnin+s he *rou+ht
it u& in violation of the motion in limine.
's( Ste..i*s& ?o. )t was a+ain durin+ his life you asked what he earned.
Ju%ge& ) think he was tryin+ to *e clear.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor if you would #ust order him if that is your order or if he has a moment to
talk to $$
's( Str-*g& )"m sure he would &refer not to talk a*out this issue +iven that he"s not *een cleared *y his
clients.
'r( B-yle& You would think he would have *een cleared. )f he acce&ted this en+a+ement to testify in
the ,ichael Jackson wron+ful death matter the com&any clearly knows he"s worked on the Sony
A!I <atalo+ a&&arently for years and they cleared him to testify so ) don"t see what the &ro*lem is.
Ju%ge& .ell the one thin+ ) do think would not *e relevant is the amounts. /e can testify whether it"s
in e2cess or *elow we can kind of leave it there for now.
'r( +)*ish& .e"ll see.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. Let"s +o out.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
'r( +)*ish& )"ll withdraw it ask a different 8uestion.
4( ,r. -ri++s do you have a conflict of interest in this case?
A( ?o.
4( /ave you *een cleared *y your com&any to testify in this case?
A( A*solutely.
4( And you can testify a*out anythin+ that you"re asked in this case?
A( !o the e2tent you"re askin+ me for confidential information or information under &rivile+e ) would
*e reluctant to testify re+ardin+ that. )f you"re askin+ me re+ardin+ my o&inion of course )"m ha&&y to
answer 8uestions.
4( Sir you"re not an attorney are you?
A( )"m not an attorney.
4( And you don"t have an attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone outside of this case do you?
A( ) $$ my firm has attorneyJclient relationshi&s with many other law firms in con#unction with many
other en+a+ements.
4( And that"s five or ten times you"ve done that &rior to June of >11H?
A( !hat sounds ri+ht yes.
4( Okay. And you were the one doin+ the work( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct or overseein+ a team. -ut ) was intimately $$
4( .as it the same third &arty or different ones?
A( ) think different.
4( /ow many different third &arties?
A( )"m $$ )"ll answer your 8uestion( *ut ) think in one &articular case it was also &re ,ichael Jackson"s
death under attorneyJclient &rivile+e as well #ust to *e thorou+h. Fro*a*ly three or four different
&arties.
4( So you"re not $$ you didn"t have any attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone you weren"t a client
were you?
A( )n those &articular en+a+ements they were all confidentiality &rovisions. !here was not an attorney
involved e2ce&t *ut for &ossi*ly the one )"m thinkin+ of now.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out *efore the death.
A( Okay.
4( You didn"t have any attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone did you?
A( )"m not a law firm. E2ce&t *ut for the one en+a+ement )"m now thinkin+ of there was not a law firm
on the other side.
4( All ri+ht. And these five se&arate clients you said that $$ that you worked for $$
A( ) think ) said five to ten se&arate en+a+ements and ) think ) said three or four se&arate reci&ients.
)"m a&&ro2imatin+. !his was years a+o hundreds of en+a+ements a+o.
4( .as one of them Sony?
A( Yes.
4( .as one of them 'ortress <a&ital?
A( )"m sorry. Let me +o *ack. !o *e clear Sony A!I the music &u*lishin+ or+ani@ation as o&&osed to
Sony cor&orate a&&reciatin+ there"s a difference. One of them involved 'ortress <a&ital. ) don"t recall
if 'ortress was a direct $$ a direct$claim client or received our work &roduct in con#unction with an
en+a+ement.
A( <orrect.
4( You haven"t *een in an audit ri+ht?
A( )"ve never &erformed a record com&any audit no.
4( ?ow sir $$
Ju%ge& .e have $$ need to take a *reak.
'r( +)*ish& Oh sure. Sorry.
Ju%ge& <an we take #ust a ten minute *reak?
(Bre)3$
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 -utsi%e the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& !here was a note &rovided *y some*ody from the audience. ) &rovided it to *oth counsel.
,ake of it what you will.
'r( +)*ish& !hank you your honor.
'r( +ut*),& !hank you your honor.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
'r( +)*ish& ,r. -ri++s *efore the *reak ) asked you a 8uestion a*out whether you were u& in the
fifth floor watchin+ the testimony.
4( %o you remem*er that 8uestion?
A( You asked me if ) attended the testimony of $$ or ) *elieve the $$ the trial testimony of ,r. Erk.
4( ) *elieve ) asked you of any testimony *ut )"m +oin+ to ask you ri+ht now sir. .ere you u& there
watchin+ testimony of any witness in this trial?
A( Yes ) did see the trial testimony of ,r. ,e+len at least &art of it while ) was waitin+ to come here(
and ) *elieve one of the doctors as well. ) can"t recall his name.
4( So how many days were you u& there?
A( ) think one or two &erha&s.
4( And who were you there with?
4( %id you show those to counsel to see if it was okay that you could *e a witness in this case?
A( ) don"t think so no.
4( %id you discuss that you had confidentiality a+reements with entities and relatin+ to ,ichael
Jackson *efore you si+ned an a+reement to *e an e2&ert in this case for the %efendant?
A( ) went a ste& further. ) told them ) was not sharin+ anythin+ in re+ards to those other matters.
4( %id you contact all of the &revious clients that you had confidentiality a+reements with and have
them si+n off for you to *e in this case?
A( !hose that were more current yes.
4( Okay. So who did you call and have them si+n off?
A( )"m +oin+ to start revealin+ some client confidential information here.
Ju%ge& ) think you"re #ust askin+ for the clients not $$ #ust the identity.
4( .ho did you call and have them si+n in writin+ that they"re waivin+ any &otential conflict of
interest for you to testify in this case?
A( ) don"t *elieve we have anythin+ si+ned in writin+.
4( Okay. .ell who did you call and tell them that you were +oin+ to *e in this case and you wanted to
make sure it was okay with these &eo&le that You had confidentiality a+reements with?
A( ,y recollection is the most si+nificant call was with the attorneys for the Estate of ,ichael
Jackson.
4( And who did you s&eak to?
A( ) don"t recall. ) don"t recall if it was me or my &artner.
4( So you don"t recall if you called someone and asked for a waiver of a confidentiality a+reement?
A( ) recall there was a call that took &lace. As ) &reviously testified )"m involved in over 311 matters a
year all the s&ecifics and lo+istics are hard to kee& track.
4( Sir you were retained in this case in march( is that ri+ht?
A( 'e*ruary A.
4( 'e*ruary A si2 months a+o ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And did you call someone from the Estate sir?
A( ) don"t know.
4( .ell you don"t know if anyone talked to anyone that"s a trustee or e2ecutor of the Estate to +et
&ermission for you to testify ri+ht?
A( ) don"t know s&ecifically.
4( Okay. And when did you s&eak to this ,s. <ohen and +et her &ermission?
A( .ell initial &ermission would have *een o*tained at or around the time of the en+a+ement( and
su*se8uent to that ) think ) s&oke with her a month or two a+o. ) can"t recall s&ecifically.
4( So you +ot &ermission a month or two a+o from her?
A( ?o that"s not what ) said.
4( Okay. .ell when $$ you +ot &ermission *efore 'e*ruary Ath when you were retained? )s that what
your testimony is?
A( ) understand that"s the case yes.
4( Okay. %id you call her and ask for &ermission?
A( ) already told you ) $$ ) can"t recall whether it was me or one of my &artners.
4( Okay. So let me #ust see if ) understand. ?ow in 'e*ruary $$ you si+ned a written contract with this
law firm here to work on this case ri+ht?
A( An en+a+ement a+reement yes.
4( And *efore you si+ned that sir you or someone that you don"t know of called ,s. <ohen and +ot
her authori@ation to testify in this case correct?
A( !hat"s my understandin+.
4( .ell did it ha&&en or not?
A( ) told you that"s my understandin+.
4( -ased on what?
A( -ased on my knowled+e of how the conflict check &rocess works at '!) <onsultin+.
4( Okay. So you don"t +et written conflict waivers?
A( %e&ends on the situation and circumstances.
4( Okay. And then two months a+o you s&oke to ,s. <ohen yourself ri+ht?
A( A&&ro2imately yes.
4( And she then a+ain +ave you &ermission to testify( is that ri+ht?
A( ) wouldn"t descri*e it as +ivin+ &ermission. )t was more #ust an acknowled+ment.
4( .ell you"d already done all your work *y then two months a+o hadn"t you sir?
A( ) consider *ein+ here work so no.
4( .ell you"d already *illed over 411111 *y that time?
A( ) don"t know.
4( So what )"m tryin+ to understand is who is the &erson from your com&any that called ,s. <ohen
and +ot &ermission for you to work on this case?
A( ) can"t tell you s&ecifically.
4( .ould you e2&ect your com&any to have records of that?
A( ) don"t know.
4( .ell you descri*ed you"re familiar with how the conflict &rocess works. )sn"t there a written$out
&rocedure at your com&any '!) with :111 em&loyees that you"re su&&osed to follow when a conflict
arises &otentially?
A( )"m sorry. ) miss&oke earlier. !here is a written record of a conflict check that was &assed yes.
4( Okay. And who si+ned it?
A( .ell it"s authori@ed *y the +eneral counsel of the firm ) understand.
4( And who s&oke to ,s. <ohen?
A( ) told you ) can"t recall.
4( And what"s the +eneral counsel"s name?
A( Eric miller.
4( Eric miller. )s he in Los An+eles?
A( ?o.
4( .here is he?
A( ) *elieve -altimore.
A( ) consider it.
4( Okay. Your firm also has #ury consultants ri+ht?
A( ) don"t know. )t"s &ossi*le.
4( /ave you ever looked at your we*site sir?
A( Sure. ,y com&any has :111 &eo&le doin+ all sorts of different thin+s.
4( .ell isn"t it listed on your we*site how you have #ury consultants witness &re&aration &eo&le
e2&ert witnesses? All of those services are one of the *i+ services &rovided *y your com&any?
A( ) think my com&any"s we*site &ro*a*ly lists 41 different services( and the ones that are really
s&ecific to liti+ation ) don"t have dee& knowled+e of *ecause liti+ation has really never *een the focus
of my work.
4( <ould you try to answer my 8uestion &lease sir?
A( Sure.
4( %oes your com&any $$ so you"ve never looked at your com&any"s we*site to see what services you
advertise that you &rovide( is that a fair statement?
A( ) have looked at my com&any"s we*site to see what $$ what services my com&any advertises it
&rovides.
4( And do you +et &aid a salary?
A( ) do.
4( And do you +et a *onus?
A( ) ho&e ) do.
4( .hat is your salary?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( 04> irrelevant.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
'r( +)*ish& .ell is your *onus *ased on how much you *ill?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor. Same o*#ections.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ,y *onus is *ased on the &erformance of a division not my s&ecific efforts.
4( .ell &erformance is assessed *y money *rou+ht into the com&any isn"t it sir?
A( .ell loosely yes.
4( .ell
you"re in a money$makin+ *usiness aren"t you sir?
A( )f *y ;money$makin+; you mean ;&rofita*le; yes '!) <onsultin+ +enerates &rofits.
4( And how much did you +enerate last year sir your firm?
A( .e were *rou+ht into '!) in January( so s&eakin+ to the time *efore that that was at the salter
+rou&. !hat was a different time.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out '!) sir. -efore you #oined the com&any you reviewed the financial situation
didn"t you?
A( Sure ) did yes.
4( And your firm advertises on its we*site how much they *rin+ in and market and $$ in revenue a
year don"t they sir?
A( .ell '!) is a &u*licly traded com&any( they have &u*licly filed financial statements.
4( /ow much was it last year sir?
A( ) think it was a&&roachin+ C> million a&&ro2imately.
4( ?ow $$
A( )n revenues. E2cuse me. Just to *e clear.
4( Bi+ht. ?ow sir you told us that your $$ your $$ one of your #o*s is to assess risk ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And that"s what you do when you forecast you assess risks ri+ht?
A( ) view them as +oin+ hand in hand.
4( And when you assess risk you"ve +ot to determine what the risk is and whether or not it can *e
miti+ated correct?
A( ) a+ree.
4( And when you assess risk you look at what could *e a &ro*lem and how can that
Fro*lem *e miti+ated ri+ht?
A( ) *elieve he was takin+ into consideration many factors includin+ %r. ,urray includin+ the
decades of dru+ a*use includin+ the lastin+ im&act of the use of dru+s the method in which he was
takin+ dru+s and the si+nificant likelihood of rela&se.
4( .ell let"s look at what he said sir. 'irst of all you"re not a medical doctor are you sir?
A( )"m not a medical doctor.
4( <an you tell us sir how many or+ans there are in the *ody?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e 04>.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
4( .ell sir you reviewed %r. Shimelman"s testimony at &a+e 94 didn"t you sir?
A( .ell my sheet here references &a+e 94 so &resuma*ly &a+e 94 had one of the key statements that
were relevant in formin+ my o&inion. Fresuma*ly it was the statement a*out $$
4( And when he was asked ;so ) would ask in your o&inion how lon+ do you think that ,ichael
Jackson"s life e2&ectancy was?; did he answer ;if <onrad ,urray continues with him?; did he answer
that sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection to the e2tent $$ if he"s readin+ somethin+ from the document it mi+ht *e
a&&ro&riate to allow the witness to review it as o&&osed to doin+ a memory test.
Ju%ge& .ell first $$ no. )f he has a failure of memory then we can +o there. Overruled.
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific wordin+. )"m ha&&y to look at the &a+e with you.
'r( +)*ish& Are you aware the internal revenue service is investi+atin+ whether or not the &eo&le that
hired you re+ardin+ the A!I <atalo+ undervalued it?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e irrelevant 04>.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .ell let"s take a look at %r. Shimelman"s testimony sir that you were #ust referrin+
to.
Ju%ge& .here did that come from?
's( Str-*g& Good 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& .ell do you want me to answer that? )"m ha&&y to tell you where it came from.
Ju%ge& ?o. Let"s #ust move on.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. -ut you asked me.
4( And %r. Shimelman said %r. ,urray was treatin+ him may*e a week left ri+ht?
A( /e connected %r. ,urray to that one week.
4( Bi+ht. So that"s a risk to his health isn"t it sir %r. ,urray?
A( !he document says what it says. ) mean it a&&ears *ased on what $$ could they &ut it *ack u&
&lease?
's( Str-*g& <an we #ust +ive him a co&y? /e was shown e2cer&ts. %o you have a co&y to show the
witness?
'r( +)*ish& )"m ha&&y to &lay it so we all see it.
Ju%ge& ?o no.
'r( +)*ish& !he answer is not in the transcri&t. Okay. So let me $$ your honor )"m tryin+ to ask $$ is
this coachin+ the witness?
Ju%ge& ?o.
's( Str-*g& )"m showin+ the &ortion of the transcri&t that you"re referrin+ to.
'r( +)*ish& .ell she #ust told him somethin+.
A( She #ust directed me to $$
'r( +)*ish& )"m not askin+ you a*out that now.
A( Okay.
'r( +)*ish& /ello? ,y 8uestion a+ain %r. ,urray was a risk to ,r. Jackson"s health wasn"t he sir?
's( Str-*g& A+ain o*#ection your honor to the e2tent that this is somethin+ that was assessed *y
medical doctors and he"s indicated he"s reviewed the medical testimony.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( !he risk that ) viewed here was his life e2&ectancy. )t a&&ears $$ it a&&ears that in determinin+ that
life e2&ectancy %r. Shimelman took into consideration <onrad ,urray.
4( And to miti+ate that risk you could remove %r. ,urray and have a fit and com&etent doctor to
remove that risk assessment couldn"t you sir?
A( ) think you"re askin+ me for a medical o&inion that )"m not &re&ared to +ive.
4( You assess risks. )f %r. ,urray is not in that e8uation the risk isn"t there is it sir?
A( .ell there are many other medical risks that are identified( risk of rela&se risk of the method in
which he"s takin+ dru+s and so forth.
4( <ould you answer the 8uestion sir?
Ju%ge& Answer the 8uestion that"s asked.
A( <an you restate the 8uestion &lease?
4( ,ay*e you should &ut that down *ecause )"m not askin+ you a*out that ri+ht now.
A( )"m tryin+ to +ive you the *est answers &ossi*le and they relate to medical testimony and ) don"t
want to offer it.
4( You assessed risks *ased on medical testimony in this case didn"t you sir?
A( !hat"s correct yes. ) didn"t assess medical risks thou+h.
4( You assessed risks *ased on medical evidence didn"t you sir?
A( ) a+ree.
4( Okay. And you know how to miti+ate risk( and if the risk is the doctor and you take the doctor out
the risk isn"t there is it sir?
A( ) +uess the $$ it would seem that one risk would *e removed. )t"s hard to say how many other risks
e2ist.
4( .ell we"re +ettin+ to that sir. )"m talkin+ a*out this risk the first one on your chart. Let"s &ut that
u&. )"m talkin+ a*out the first one you &ut down. Your o&inion that ,r. Jackson is +oin+ to die in a
week is *ecause of %r. ,urray treatin+ him accordin+ to %r. Shimelman isn"t it sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates the testimony.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) don"t a+ree with that.
'r( +)*ish& .ell let"s &ut the testimony u& then &a+e 99 since you don"t a+ree with it and let"s look
at it.
Ju%ge& .hose testimony? You"re &uttin+ u& Shimelman?
's( Str-*g& !he relevant testimony *e+ins at &a+e 94 as ,r. -ri++s identified on his sheet.
'r( +)*ish& <ould ) ask counsel not to $$ to make le+al o*#ections *ecause there"s $$
Ju%ge& Are you &uttin+ u& the testimony that you showed him on the $$
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e 04>. Goin+ way out of *ounds your honor.
Ju%ge& .hy don"t you #ust show the Shimelman de&o.
4( Sir your o&inion is that he would die any ni+ht ri+ht?
A( ) want to *e very clear. !his is not my o&inion. ) am not a doctor. !here is a doctor that has testified
on the record that"s Flaintiffs" e2&ert that his life e2&ectancy was one week. ) can"t offer a medical
o&inion )"m not a doctor.
4( Okay. %id he die under the care of %r. ,urray?
A( ) $$ ) understand that to *e the case.
4( And you relied on %r. Shimelman $$ ri+ht? $$ as one of your *ases?
A( Yes in &art.
4( Okay. And in &art *ecause he said he could die any time *ecause %r. ,urray was treatin+ him
ri+ht?
A( /e said his evaluation of the circumstances included %r. ,urray yes. ) don"t $$ ) really didn"t see it
linked to %r. ,urray"s treatment s&ecifically #ust that %r. ,urray was &art of his assessment.
4( Okay. Let me +o now to %r. Earley. Okay? And you said %r. Earley +ave an o&inion a*out life
e2&ectancy( is that ri+ht sir?
A( .ell from a lay&erson"s &ers&ective he stated that the way ,ichael Jackson was takin+ dru+s was
the e8uivalent of Bussian roulette.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor could ) ask him to &lease answer the 8uestion?
Ju%ge& ) think he"s answerin+ the 8uestion.
4( %id %r. Earley +ive an o&inion yes or no a*out ,ichael Jackson"s life e2&ectancy sir?
A( As a lay&erson his comment yes.
4( Okay. .ell let"s see what he testified to. Let"s first +o sir $$ is it true that %r. Earley said when
asked a*out the life e2&ectancy that he wasn"t asked to o&ine on that matter in this case?
A( ) don"t recall.
4( )s it true that %r. Earley said ;) don"t have any &articular num*er that ) can +ive you in this case;?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
4( )s it true that %r. Earley testified that he doesn"t *lame ,ichael Jackson at all for the use of any &ain
medication?
A( ) *elieve ) recall that testimony.
4( And then he said that if anyone were to *lame ,ichael Jackson he would *e a+ainst that didn"t he
sir?
A( ) think ) recall that testimony.
4( .ell didn"t he say sir that anyone who"s tryin+ to &ut the *lame on ,r. Jackson would *e doin+
somethin+ wron+?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e. !his is not relevant to this witness"s $$
'r( +)*ish& Your honor he reviewed all of these transcri&ts.
Ju%ge& Overruled. /e"s talkin+ a*out earley and life e2&ectancy. Overruled.
's( Str-*g& ?ot in terms of *lame. -ut understood your honor.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .ell let"s see if we can refresh your recollection sir.
4( !hat"s *ecause you didn"t take any notes of this other than these little sentence $$ little three words
you wrote a*out %r. Earley ri+ht?
A( ?o that"s not correct.
4( Okay. .here"s your other notes?
A( You asked me the reason ) didn"t recall that is *ecause ) didn"t take notes. !he reason ) didn"t recall
that is you"re askin+ me 8uestions a*out *lame and ) was $$ and ) was asked here to talk a*out
forecastin+ income and assessin+ risk not *lame. ) can"t s&eak to *lame.
4( )"m askin+ you what %r. Earley testified. You reviewed his entire transcri&t didn"t you sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And you know $$
A( 'rom de&osition. /e hasn"t a&&eared in trial.
4( /e actually has sir. -ut you understand as an e2&ert witness when you review somethin+ you can
*e cross$e2amined on the document don"t you sir?
A( ) understand that.
4( %id anyone say he would only live three weeks other than Shimelman?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
4( Okay. ?ow let"s talk a*out %r. Earley. %id %r. Earley say he"s not in the *usiness of +ivin+ &eo&le
estimates of how lon+ they"re +oin+ to live *ecause he"s never dia+nosed ,r. Jackson and never took a
look at him?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Let"s look at &a+e 3>E lines 31 to >0 see if this refreshes your recollection
without &uttin+ it u& on the screen. Just &ut it u& for the witness.
's( Str-*g& )t"s 30E?
'r( +)*ish& 3>E lines 31 to >0.
's( Str-*g& %o you have a co&y of this for the witness?
'r( +)*ish& ) can read it to him. %o you want me to +ive it to him?
4( .hile they"re doin+ that sir were you &rovided the coroner"s testimony *y counsel $$ strike that.
You have the testimony.
A( Okay.
4( %oes that refresh your recollection?
A( ) recall this testimony.
4( And was $$ did %r. Earley testify that he wasn"t asked to o&ine in this matter to a reasona*le de+ree
of medical certainty a*out ,ichael Jackson"s s&ecific life e2&ectancy?
A( !his is what $$ ) mean the testimony s&eaks for itself.
's( Str-*g& Your honor can ) a&&roach and +ive him the full testimony? )t"s #ust showin+ e2cer&ts.
'r( +)*ish& )"m #ust tryin+ to $$
Ju%ge& ?o. ) think $$
4( Sir does he say he wasn"t asked to o&ine on his medical life e2&ectancy yes or no?
A( /e states he was not asked to o&ine in that manner.
4( %oes that refresh your recollection?
A( )t refreshes my recollection that he stated he was not asked to o&ine in that manner.
4( Okay. %id counsel $$ did you rely on the lawyers to show you all the relevant information?
A( ) relied on the attorneys to &rovide me the information.
4( Bi+ht. And when you"re assessin+ risk would $$ would all of the relevant information *e im&ortant?
A( )t"s a +eneral statement sure.
4( And when you"re assessin+ someone"s life e2&ectancy or whether they were +oin+ to
%ie in a week or a month would havin+ all the information of &eo&le that e2amined the &atient *e
im&ortant?
A( .ell #ust to *e clear ) can"t assess anyone"s life e2&ectancy. )t"s what you asked me sir.
4( )n makin+ an assessment as to whether a &ro#ect will +o forward like 41 shows at the 1> arena
when you make a statement that ,r. Jackson"s health would have &revented that would it *e im&ortant
to have all the relevant information?
A( Sure.
4( And do you rely on the attorneys to +ive it to you?
A( ) relied on the attorneys to +ive me the information in this case yes.
4( And were you aware of the coroner"s testimony re+ardin+ ,ichael Jackson"s &hysical condition?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. !hat"s somethin+ else you reviewed you for+ot to tell me a*out?
A( You asked me if ) was aware of the testimony. ) was aware of the testimony *ut ) focused on the
testimony of the four medical e2&erts )"ve already identified that had that testimony availa*le to them
or the coroner"s re&ort.
4( Sir the coroner didn"t +ive a de&osition did he?
A( ) don"t *elieve so.
4( !hose witnesses didn"t have the coroner"s testimony availa*le to them did they?
A( ) said ;or coroner"s re&ort; and ) understand they had the re&ort availa*le to them.
4( %id you review the coroner"s testimony? %id counsel &rovide that to you?
A( !hey may have. ) don"t recall.
4( .ell ) asked you what you reviewed earlier. You didn"t mention that.
A( ) assume so yes.
4( %id he come out here and &rovide the documents the +uy from -altimore?
A( ) assume he &rovided them electronically.
4( And did you read ,r. %ickie"s testimony in this case sir?
A( ) reviewed his de&o transcri&t.
4( So that"s another one that you for+ot to tell me a*out?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And he couldn"t &ut a s&ecific life e2&ectancy on ,r. Jackson either could he?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates the testimony out of sco&e out of $$
'r( +)*ish& /e"s reviewed it.
Ju%ge& Overruled. )f you know or remem*er.
A( ) don"t *elieve he +ave a s&ecific num*er.
4( /e was una*le to wasn"t he sir?
A( /e stated that normal actuarial ta*les don"t a&&ly to someone with the conditions and *ehaviors of
,ichael Jackson ) *elieve or somethin+ to that effect.
4( Sir he was una*le to +ive a s&ecific life e2&ectancy for ,ichael Jackson( isn"t that true?
A( /e stated he was not a*le to for the reason ) +ave at least in my recollection.
4( ?ow let"s talk a*out $$ some more a*out %r. Earley. Earley you relied $$ let"s &ut *ack his e2hi*it
3>H9H. And let"s take a look at that. So first is %r. Earley. /e mi+ht *e first. Let"s see. Earley is the first
one $$ ri+ht? $$ that you relied on correct?
A( !hat"s correct in &art.
4( Okay. And he was una*le to +ive a s&ecific life e2&ectancy *ecause he wasn"t retained to do that in
this case correct?
A( !hat"s correct a&&reciatin+ that my reference here to life e2&ectancy was wron+.
4( %r. Shimelman said one week if %r. ,urray continued to treat him ri+ht?
A( Effectively yes assumin+ %r. ,urray was &art of the &icture his assessment was one week.
4( %id you &ut any other doctors u& there sir?
'r( +)*ish& .ell ) don"t want to $$ sir $$ yes there was your honor( *ut )"m not +oin+ to make an
issue ri+ht now.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. ?o comments.
's( Str-*g& !here was no comment *y this side of the ta*le your honor.
'r( +)*ish& !here a*solutely was.
4( Sir AEG thou+ht ,ichael Jackson could do 41 shows didn"t they sir?
A( !o the e2tent you"re askin+ me to s&eak to a state of mind as of a moment in time that"s not really
the focus of what ) was tryin+ to do here.
4( <ould you answer my 8uestion &lease sir?
A( .ell AEG /ad a &lan for 41 shows. !hey had a *ud+et for 41 shows they were interested in doin+
41 shows.
4( !hey thou+ht $$ did you read ,r. Gon+aware"s testimony where he said when the li+hts went on
,ichael would *e there he would do 41 shows? %id you read that sir?
A( ) don"t recall his s&ecific affirmation that he would do 41 shows. )f you"d like to show me
somethin+ and refresh my memory )"m ha&&y to look at it.
4( .ho knows more a*out tourin+ you or Faul Gon+aware?
A( ) +uess ) would ask what as&ect of tourin+ s&ecifically. )f you"re referencin+ &roducin+ a tour )
would +ive that to Faul Gon+aware.
4( .ell tell me what as&ect of tourin+ you"re more knowled+e a*out than Faul Gon+aware or Bandy
Fhilli&s.
A( ) can"t s&eak to their s&ecific knowled+e of forecastin+ and assessin+ risk which is what )"ve done
$$
Ju%ge& You need to listen to the 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& )"ll ask that it *e read *ack &lease.
Ju%ge& You may.
5the 8uestion was read6
A( ) $$ ) don"t know.
4( So if $$ did AEG $$ have they ever hired you to see whether they should do a concert whether it"s
+oin+ to +o forward or anythin+ like that?
correct?
A( .e were not hired until early >13>.
4( ?o one consulted with you in any as&ect of this tour until si2 months a+o correct?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( !hree
And a half years after ,ichael Jackson"s death?
A( Okay.
4( )s that true?
A( Yes.
4( /as livenation hired you to assess concerts and the feasi*ility for them sir?
A( ?o.
4( /ave other concert &romoters hired you to assess feasi*ility of concerts?
A( ?o. ,ost of the time our work involvin+ $$ no. )"m tryin+ to +ive you as fulsome of an answer as
&ossi*le
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. )t"s :734. H7:4. H7:4.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor can we talk a*out this *efore the #ury $$ may*e they can come a little later
in the mornin+ so we have time to $$
Ju%ge& ?o( )"ll make you come a little earlier. H7:4.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 -utsi%e the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& -y ;this; you"re referrin+ to Bandy Jackson?
's( Ste..i*s& ) had su++ested to ,r. -oyle that we review it toni+ht attem&t to meet and confer and
discuss any issues we have with the court in the mornin+ so we have a chance to +et it cut and lined u&
for &layin+ if there"s a +a& in any of the witnesses.
Ju%ge& .hy don"t you come at H701.
'r( +ut*),& )f you want us to do it another time we can.
Ju%ge& ?o. H701.
'r( B-yle& .e"ll try to *e ready. )"ve only +one throu+h one &a+e of the rulin+.
Ju%ge& Just to +ive you a head"s u& ) had some issues with the Bwaram*a $$ her testimony and at
times ) felt like it wasn"t *ein+ offered for the truth and there are other times when ) felt like it was. So
you may stru++le with that as well when you see the rulin+s. !here may *e some times where
o*#ections are sustained and then other times where they"re overruled and you may *e wonderin+ why
is that ha&&enin+. )t"s a little inconsistent. )"ll +ive you a head"s u&.
'r( +ut*),& .e can look at it with that in mind.
's( Ste..i*s& !here"s a cou&le of those your honor where ) would &otentially a+ree with your honor
as to half of the statements *ut not the other half *ut we"ll discuss that tomorrow.
Ju%ge& !hat"s why )"m raisin+ it so you"re aware that )"m aware of that ) know that focus on it and
we"ll talk a*out it.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ) would like to have com&liance with the order on the su*&oena.
Ju%ge& Okay. You did +et my tentative $$
'r( +)*ish& )t was ordered forthwith at 3701.
Ju%ge& .ell ) had #ust issued it at 3701.
'r( +)*ish& ) understand. ) would like to have that information for further cross$e2amination of the
witness.
's( Str-*g& )t looks like with res&ect to ,r. -ri++s ) *elieve that '!)"s res&onse with res&ect to the
su*&oena directed to him is that '!) maintains the records and &roduced what they had in res&onse to
the su*&oena directed to '!) they were identical su*&oenas one to ,r. -ri++s and one to '!).
'r( +ut*),& )f he has anythin+ further you"re sayin+ he"s su&&osed to +ive it.
's( Str-*g& .e"ll let '!) know. ) don"t know that there"s anythin+ additional that they"ll &rovide *ut
we"ll +ive it to them.
'r( +)*ish& )nformation for the secretary that was ty&in+ u& the time sheets.
Ju%ge& !hat"s what ) assume Flaintiff was askin+ for were time sheets for him individually.
'r( +ut*),& .e"ll find out.
's( Str-*g& .e"ll +ive it to '!) and let them $$
Ju%ge& ) said forthwith so you need to call them ri+ht away.
'r( +)*ish& .hen do you think ) mi+ht *e a*le to +et some res&onse?
Ju%ge& )f there are documents.