Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?

- Page 2

Page 1 of 5

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?

ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

Forum User Name Forum User Name c Remember Me? d e f g Password Log in Search

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?

Register Photo Albums Blogs FAQ Community Calendar

Today's Posts

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notices

The 2011 December holidays are in full swing until New Years has come and gone. This being a business forum, activity in the forum will be slow during the holidays. Normal activity will start to pick up again by the second week of January 2012 when people come back from their holiday vacations. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all of you who celebrate the various December Holidays! 2012 is almost here!

ISO 9001 Software

Document control, complaints, capa, audits... Free online presentation!
www.VivaldiSoftware.com

Elsmar Forum Sidebar

Tags iso 9001 - quality management systems, quality objectives

Search
Custom Search

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2 Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes #9 Posts: 9 Thanks Given to Others: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Karma Power: 14 Karma: 25

New Threads Feeds

22nd August 2011, 03:03 PM

Monitor the Forum

Monitor New Forum Posts

Dan Johnson
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts) Registration Date: Aug 2008 Location: Tennessee Re: Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?

Follow Elsmar

Thread Tags
Tag Cloud

Quote: Originally Posted by Glen D Then there are the managers within these areas that from previous audits, dont see the benifit of monitoring and measuring (I still dont understand thier objection even after lengthy explanations). I guess they just see the extra work it may entail!

Sponsor Links

Therein lies the rub: You have to achieve employee buy-in to the QMS before you will see real, sustained improvement. There's a lengthly list of fallacious arguments people will use as to why they can't or shouldn't employe ISO principals,the first of which is Customer Satisfaction. In this case, it appears you have multiple managers who handle the warranty work based on the system. Someone from outside those respective areas needs to be collecting data. Everyone within those areas are afraid that real data collection will point to one particular area as needing improvement and believe it will show a failure on their part. Instead of embracing the ISO principal of Continuous Improvemnent, they are involved with the age-old practice of CYA. 6-7 years into our program, we still have employees who view a CAR as a negative, instead of an opportunity for improvement, improve customer satisfaction and, in the end, improve the company's bottom line and everyone's job. This can, many times, be the biggest challenge you will face in your efforts to truly enact an effective QMS. Leading from the front will help with this. I show my employees how many CARs I, or someone within the Quality department, generate because I failed to do something, as well as my root-cause and corrective actions.

Sponsored Links

ISO 9001 Software Document control, complaints, capa, audits... Free online presentation! www.VivaldiSoftware.com Better Balanced Scorecard Perspectives, Objectives, Metrics. Web based. Free training & trial! www.spiderstrategies.com

22nd August 2011, 07:32 PM

#10 Posts: 1,302 Thanks Given to Others: 520 Thanked 521 Times in 357 Posts Karma Power: 123 Karma: 4065

Big Jim
Involved in Discussions Registration Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA, Southern California

Re: Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?

I see some concern about gathering the data too. Have those that have tasked you with administering this provided the support you need to get this data? Assuming that you have or can obtain support for those that handle these areas, you can create an Excel spread sheet that each one has access to. Use the spread sheet to record all warranty activity. Determine what you need to know and draft the spread sheet around that. Try to keep it as basic as possible so it will be easy to obtain participation. If you can't get the cooperation and support to get participation, you are on a doomed mission. If you are on a doomed mission, decide for yourself if you should stick around. Back to the original question as show on the subject of this thread, one of the best sources for determining what to use for quality objectives is element 8.4 where it defines the requirements for analysis of data. As a company, you need to determine, collect, and analyze data that helps you monitor the health of your quality management system. The four topics

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=49841&page=2

27/12/2011

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? - Page 2

Page 2 of 5

that you must do this for include: customer satisfaction, product quality, process performance, and supplier performance. Look for sources that you either already have for data, or that can easily be obtained. Your quality objectives do not need to be aligned with this list, but if you have to do it anyway, why not? The ones you have been tasked to track probably fit in here, however they are probably not easy to obtain data for from what you have described. Would management consider starting with easier ones until teamwork improves?

Thanks to Big Jim for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

samsung
Sponsored Links

Ads by Google
23rd August 2011, 03:10 AM

ISO AS9100

ISO 9001

ISO Certification

ISO Template
#11 Posts: 3,195 Thanks Given to Others: 1,160 Thanked 1,486 Times in 999 Posts Karma Power: 294 Karma: 10395

JaneB
Consultant / Auditor Registration Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? Quote: Originally Posted by Glen D ...certain areas have limited monitoring and measurement other have nothing. ... As a said above there are 4-5 people who may get and deal wth warranty calls dependent on the account

Definitely sounds like something that is ripe for a bit of improvement. OK, 4-5 people may "get and deal with" the calls - but where is (is there any?) the info that gives you (senior management) a summary view? Eg, what types of warranty issues are you getting across all accounts? Any patterns to them? And how are they being 'dealt with'? In what time frame? To what standards/criteria/etc? Is there any agreed procedure/process or does each area or account just do its own thing??
Quote: Originally Posted by Glen D Myself and 2 directors highlighted these issues for our first set of objectives from areas where improvements can be made.

Areas where you can improve are rich pickings. And it certainly sounds as though the area could do with a bit of improvement. Whether the managers will - sooner or later - 'get it' or not is up to them. You can lead a horse to water, etc... If top management wants it to happen and sets the tone, supports and leads, then the managers themselves have a choice to make. Get on board... or find another train going somewhere else? Sometimes people don't like change, or being changed, and sometimes they've reason for not wanting change to happen because the status quo is either all too comfy or is a surface behind which is stuff that needs to be brought out into the open and improved. The point about 'is it extra work?' though is a valid one.

SigmaXL V6.0 Free Trial

Easy to use Excel addin Ideal for Six Sigma training
www.sigmaxl.com

Finally, it's often worth thinking about setting objectives in two groups: those you want to improve and those where you want to maintain performance. But you have to know what that performance is currently (ie, baseline) before you can do either. Don't be daunted. As I said, it can take a while to get the idea, but as with anything, if you work at it and practice doing it (PDCA), you get better at it. And things DO improve. __________________ Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. Some can avoid it. Geniuses remove it. ~ Alan Perlis

30th August 2011, 12:03 PM

#12 Posts: 21 Thanks Given to Others: 17 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts Karma Power: 7 Karma: 60

Glen D
Involved in Discussions Registration Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK, South East Age: 35 Re: Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? Quote: Originally Posted by Dan Johnson

Therein lies the rub: You have to achieve employee buy-in to the QMS before you will see real, sustained improvement. There's a lengthly list of fallacious arguments people will use as to why they can't or shouldn't employe ISO principals,the first of which is Customer Satisfaction. In this case, it appears you have multiple managers who handle the warranty work based on the system. Someone from outside those respective areas needs to be collecting data. Everyone within those areas are afraid that real data collection will point to one particular area as needing improvement and believe it will show a failure on their part. Instead of embracing the ISO principal of Continuous Improvemnent, they are involved with the age-old practice of CYA. 6-7 years into our program, we still have employees who view a CAR as a negative, instead of an opportunity for improvement, improve customer satisfaction and, in the end, improve the company's bottom line and everyone's job. This can, many times, be the biggest challenge you will face in your efforts to truly enact an effective QMS. Leading from the front will help with this. I show my employees how many CARs I, or someone within the Quality department, generate because I failed to do something, as well as my root-cause and corrective actions.

I think we have a fair few managers and others that have been with the company since we used stone and chistle to record records! I think they are too set in their ways, have resistance to change, see change as a threat and see change as an
$ Contributor Forum Access

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=49841&page=2

27/12/2011

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? - Page 2

Page 3 of 5

indication that they've not been doing something right or properly since year dot. Here CAR's are seen as blame culture due to the previous Quality managers allowing them to be used in that way. Something i'm trying very hard to get away from by concentrating on the corrective actions with those involved and not on the 'blame'.
Quote: Courtesy Quick Links Originally Posted by Big Jim I see some concern about gathering the data too. Have those that have tasked you with administering this provided the support you need to get this data? Assuming that you have or can obtain support for those that handle these areas, you can create an Excel spread sheet that each one has access to. Use the spread sheet to record all warranty activity. Determine what you need to know and draft the spread sheet around that. Try to keep it as basic as possible so it will be easy to obtain participation. If you can't get the cooperation and support to get participation, you are on a doomed mission. If you are on a doomed mission, decide for yourself if you should stick around.

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge: Howard's International Quality Services Atul's Symphony Technologies Marcelo Antunes' SQR Consulting

No they've not really given me the support. What was 4 years ago a 3 person QA dept is now myself! The directors i meet with regarding the ISO implementation have said they will get onto the persons concerned but have yet to do so after many prods from myself.
Quote: Originally Posted by Big Jim

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers Quality Digest Portal IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology ASQ - American Society for Quality

Back to the original question as show on the subject of this thread, one of the best sources for determining what to use for quality objectives is element 8.4 where it defines the requirements for analysis of data. As a company, you need to determine, collect, and analyze data that helps you monitor the health of your quality management system. The four topics that you must do this for include: customer satisfaction, product quality, process performance, and supplier performance. Look for sources that you either already have for data, or that can easily be obtained. Your quality objectives do not need to be aligned with this list, but if you have to do it anyway, why not? The ones you have been tasked to track probably fit in here, however they are probably not easy to obtain data for from what you have described. Would management consider starting with easier ones until teamwork improves?

I used those 4 topics, along with the directors views, we came up with the objectives i listed.
Quote: Originally Posted by JaneB Definitely sounds like something that is ripe for a bit of improvement. OK, 4-5 people may "get and deal with" the calls - but where is (is there any?) the info that gives you (senior management) a summary view? Eg, what types of warranty issues are you getting across all accounts? Any patterns to them? And how are they being 'dealt with'? In what time frame? To what standards/criteria/etc? Is there any agreed procedure/process or does each area or account just do its own thing??

All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World

They basically just do there own thing with spreadsheets made up to suit. I have no idea how 2 sites record warranty information or indeed if they record any information at all! One site gets quite detailed information and the 4th is basically when and where there was a warranty call.

Quote: Originally Posted by JaneB Areas where you can improve are rich pickings. And it certainly sounds as though the area could do with a bit of improvement. Whether the managers will - sooner or later - 'get it' or not is up to them. You can lead a horse to water, etc... If top management wants it to happen and sets the tone, supports and leads, then the managers themselves have a choice to make. Get on board... or find another train going somewhere else? Sometimes people don't like change, or being changed, and sometimes they've reason for not wanting change to happen because the status quo is either all too comfy or is a surface behind which is stuff that needs to be brought out into the open and improved. The point about 'is it extra work?' though is a valid one.

As i said above in the answer to Dan, i think they are 'all to comfortable' with little pressure/guidance/accountability from above to improve.
Quote: Originally Posted by JaneB Finally, it's often worth thinking about setting objectives in two groups: those you want to improve and those where you want to maintain performance. But you have to know what that performance is currently (ie, baseline) before you can do either. Don't be daunted. As I said, it can take a while to get the idea, but as with anything, if you work at it and practice doing it (PDCA), you get better at it. And things DO improve.

I'll bare the 'improve' and 'maintain' objectives in mind. Thing is i think i can see the train of thought developing and i probably already know the answer as to what i need to do.... Thanks to you all!

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Lower Navigation Bar The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? Do you find this thread helpful and informational?
0
Bookmarks Facebook Digg Google StumbleUpon

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=49841&page=2

27/12/2011

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? - Page 2

Page 4 of 5

Tags iso 9001 - quality management systems, quality objectives Previous Thread | Next Thread

Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)

Forum Posting Settings You You You You may may may may not not not not post new threads post replies post attachments edit your posts

BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Jump Forum Rules ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

6 Go

Similar Discussion Threads

Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote 21st January 2010 10:46 AM 16th October 2008 01:59 PM 26th November 2005 01:14 AM 27th July 2005 01:11 AM 4th January 2005 08:15 AM

Defining Department wise Quality Objectives in terms of Effectiveness and Efficiency

rcm_mech

ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

Quality Objectives Vs. Quality Policy Setting Quality Objectives and Goals

Brian0612

AS9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements

Defining Quality Objectives for a Scaffolding Service company

Thomas Kurian

ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

12

Quality Objectives - Our auditor told us we need to broadcast our quality objectives

ISOPete

ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard

22

Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level

Nadeem A.

ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

15

The time now is 10:13 PM. All times are GMT -4. The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options. Contact Marc - Elsmar Cove Site Home Page - Elsmar Cove Index (Ar) - Privacy & Copyright Statement - Top

The Deming PDCA Cycle Auditing Information Identifying Waste Discovering Change 8-D Problem Solving Pull Systems Process Capability - Cp vs. Cpk

QMS Implementation Statistics Lead Time Reduction Histogram Animation Fishbone / Cause and Effects Animation

FMEA Information Error Proofing (Poka Yoke) Planned Maintenance Process Loop Animation

APQP Information Brainstorming Quick Setup Taguchi Loss Function

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith

COPY AND PASTE OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL FROM OTHER WEB SITES IN POSTS: Times have changed and the risk of copyright infringement is reaching epic proportions. I have now received several DMCA Take Down notices from Praxiom Research Group Limited related to posts as old as 2006 when times were different. Praxiom Research Group Limited is the only web site I have had a problem with in all the years Elsmar has been online. In order to keep within what are as of this point in time "acceptable" copyright rules: New Rules - 11 August 2011: Copy and Paste of Copyrighted Material from other web sites in Forum Posts 1. Copyrighted materials must be limited to 120 words and must give credit to the author or source. 2. You may include a link (typically a good idea) but such links must be accompanied by a short and accurate summary of the link in the post. 3. Summaries must be limited to 120 words. FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor. Personal Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make, including attachments (data files and/or pictures) to posts. Liability for post content (data files and/or pictures) resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice and/or files by the reader. Complaints, Copyright Infringement Reports, Non-Professional Posts, Spam, etc.: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post button which appears at the top of every post in every thread. Please do not make a problem worse by posting in a discussion thread. The Moderators here and I will take care of problems.

Site courtesy of: Marc Timothy Smith - 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road - West Chester - Ohio - USA - 45069-1929 - USA

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=49841&page=2

27/12/2011

Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives? - Page 2

Page 5 of 5

(513) 341-6272 If you are having problems Registering, Activating your Registration, or other problems, you can phone me in the US. I'm not here 24/7/365, but if I'm here I'll try to help.

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree* - Feel free to Share! Attribution appreciated!

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=49841&page=2

27/12/2011