Talking With The Genies Right Hand Man

An Interview With "Aladdin" Animator Eric Goldberg

B William !alla

With his animated charm, Eric Goldberg may have easily been one of Walt Disneys Nine Old Men, legendary veteran animators who produced some of the studios classics li e !"now White #nd $he "even Dwarfs! %&'()* and !+antasia! %&',-*. /es an animator whos had the ability to churn out laugh out0loud comedy found in !#laddin! %&''1*, to serious and brilliant animation in !2ocahontas! %&''3*, which he co0 directed with Mi e Gabriel. 4n other words, a Disney aficionado might mista e Goldberg for having been at the Disney "tudios forever. 4ts hard to believe that in Disneys land of longtime resident animators, designers and writers, Goldberg is a relatively new id on the bloc with nearly &3 years of wor at the studio. 5ut his s ills in animation and charisma helped him fit right into the landscape of Disney. Goldberg came to Disney from doing animation for commercials and feature films. /is studio, 2i6a66 2ictures, was successful in 7ondon. /e eventually came on0board at Disney to wor on their newest animated feature called !#laddin.! $he film was done in a relatively short amount of time of three years and came on the heels of two bloc buster hits, !$he 7ittle Mermaid " %&'8'* and !5eauty #nd $he 5east! %&''&*. $hough the animated division of Disney produced !$he 9escuers Down :nder! in &''-, most audiences and critics ali e agreed that Disney animation was bac on trac with !Mermaid! and !5east.! 4n fact, !5east! earned a 5est 2icture nomination in &''1, a first for any animated feature film. 4t also earned over ;&,30 million at the bo< office. /ow would it be possible for Disney to top that= Waiting in the wings was a comedic, almost slapstic 0style animated feature called !#laddin.! :sing songs written by /oward #shman> ? #lan Men en, and 9obin Williams as the voice of the Genie, there were high hopes that film would be successful. Of course, no one e<pected it to be as successful as it turned out, earning over ;1&30million at the bo< office, plus a lot more on video. 5ut this story isnt about the gobs of money the film made. 4ts about Eric Goldbergs involvement with it. /e made an imprint forever in audience minds with his fluid and very funny animation of the Genie. 7istening to Goldberg, one gets the impression that #* /es really loves his wor . 5* /es a fantastic animator, and @* /es a lot of fun to Aust listen to and learn from.

William !alla " #rom $cri%t To &'&( Eric, can you tell me about your bac ground in animation prior to !#laddin=! Eric Goldberg( 4 had done freelance wor and 4 had my own commercial studio in 7ondon called 2i6a66 2ictures. $he first real professional Aob that 4 had was wor ing with 9ichard Williams, who went on to do !Who +ramed 9oger 9abbit" B&'88C. /e had a very burgeoning commercial studio in 7ondon in the mid0and0 late D)-s. 4 first hoo ed up with him on !9aggedy #nn #nd #ndy! B&'))C as an assistant animator. $hen Dic then subseEuently invited me to his 7ondon studio to direct and animate commercials. 4 was there for about

four years. #fter that, 4 too a little brea and then came out to @alifornia. 4 also met my wife on vacation in New For wor ing at an animation company called Ganders #nimation 2arlor. "usan was the bac ground department at the time. #nd we traveled out to @alifornia and 4 did the animation direction on !Giggys Gift! B&'81C which won an Emmy and was produced through 9ichard Williams 7.#. studio. 4 went bac to 7ondon, wor ed freelance for some companies and then opened my own place with two other e<09ichard HWilliam0 ites,I and that was 2i6a66. We continued there for about si< years doing commercials and $J. titles. #nd at the same time, advantageously, 9ichard Williams dropped out of the commercial business in order to do"9oger 9abbit,! so all of us ind of benefited with his client roster because he wasnt doing it anymore. BlaughterC #$T&( "omewhere along the way, you hoo ed up with Kohn Mus er. Goldberg( Fes. 5ac when we were doing !Giggy! in 8&, "usan, who went to @al #rts %an arts school founded by Walt Disney*, introduced me to a lot of her @al #rts friends that she had nown then. 2eople li e Kohn Mus er, Len W. $oy. "he had gone to school with $im 5urton. 4ts the ind of thing where Kohn Mus er and 4 ind of hit it off. We continued ind of a mutual admiration society for several years while 4 was in 7ondon and he was wor ing at Disney in @alifornia. Now, flash0forward a couple years before 4 left 7ondon, 4 came out to a film festival in @alifornia and ran 2i6a66 show reels. #nd a couple of Disney reps were there and they were very, very interested in getting a hold of me. #nd they ran my reels at the studio and all that ind of stuff. #nd eventually they ept calling. One in particular, @harlie +in , Aust ept calling and calling. HFou ready to Aump ship yet=I H:h, no 4 got this company.I HFou ready to Aump ship yet=I 4 heard that Kohn and 9on B@lementsC were doing #laddin, and that sounded li e a really good fit. "o 4 divested myself from my company and we moved loc , stoc and barrel out here to @alifornia in &''-. #nd !#laddin " was really my first Disney gig. #$T&( Was that a huge change for you, as far as your animation style, when you went from doing commercials and reels to doing a Disney film= Goldberg( #ctually not. 4 have to say that because of the nature of the Genies character. 4 didnt now 4 was going to get the Genie. 5ut my first wee in 7.#., Kohn and 9on give me the script, H9ead this over and see what you thin , and see if theres a character you might want to do.I "o 4 read it. Of course, 4 went directly to the Genie. 4 come bac inM they go, H"o were thin ing of giving you the Genie. 4s that o ay with you=I 4 go, HMm0huh. Feah, yeah, thats alright.I 4n the meantime, 4m saying inside, HFesN $han youNI BlaughterC 4ts the ind of thing where my commercials training was great because first of all, the different graphic design style that we would employ in commercials actually came to the floor in a big way in !#laddinM! the way that the Genie shifts shape and identities all the time, and also in getting an overall design concept for the film that would be coherent. #nd the other thing was in timing. 4n a thirty second commercial, 4 li e doing comedy animation where 4m trying to sEuee6e in as many little gags and things as 4 could and still cram it into thirty seconds. "o by the time 4 had 9obin Williams on the soundtrac , 4 already had several years e<perience of getting stuff to read Euic ly. 4t was actually perfectly in sync with the inds of animation that 4 had been leading up to anyway. #$T&( 5ut it mustve been somewhat of a step for you going from commercials. Eric Goldberg

Goldberg( $he big difference for me was that 4 reali6ed that all of the sudden the canvas was much, much greater and the impact was much, much greater. When 4 was in commercials, 4d wal down the street and see one of my colleagues in the business and theyd say, H/ey, hey, 4 saw your Aob on $J. last night. 7oo ed real nice.I H$han s.I #nd thats about all you would get from your peers. 4ts not the same, when for e<ample, in order to sell 9obin on the doing the movie in the first place, 4 had animated a couple of rough Genie tests to some of his old comedy routines. Keffrey Lat6enberg brings 9obin in for this big Hdog and pony showI and my animation is a huge part of that. 4m thin ing, HO ay, 4m in /ollywood now. O ay, 4m wor ing on feature films.I Koe Grant, who is now 4 thin 'O, created the Wic ed Pueen B!"now White and the "even Dwarfs,!

&'()C. /es still at the studio. #nyway, he calls animation Hmon s wor .I #nimation is mon s wor . "it in the monastery and eep drawing. Fou dont come up for air very often. #$T&( 4n a little dar room all by yourself, pretty much. BlaughterC Goldberg( $he other thing that was mind0blowing to me is that after about nine months worth of mon wor on this character, they had a screening at the Museum Of Modern #rt for all sorts of wor 0in0progress benefit screenings. $hey invited all sorts of New For luminaries. We got to go. #nd to have a house full of people roc ing with laughter at this stuff, 4d never e<perienced that before. $hat was unbelievable for me. 5eing at heart probably an old vaudevillian, 4 sit there and time the laughs. 4ts the thing where to actually hear an audience responding in such a huge vocal way to something that 4 had done with something that 4d never e<perienced. 5oth of those incidents really were the biggest differences between my commercial wor and my feature wor . 4t made me reali6e that it was reaching out to a much, much greater group of people than anything 4 had ever done previously. #$T&( 4 remember when it came out in @hristmas &''1 and seeing it with a pac ed house of about 3-people. When the Genie comes out of the lamp and his first lines come out, 4 recall the audience Aust crac ing up. #nd 4 was trying to contain my laughter at the same time. 4t was definitely a great e<perience to witness the Genie. /es a hilarious character. Goldberg( 4t was so much fun on my end to be able to ma e that wor . #nimation is always guesswor . 4ts not li e live theater. Fou cant perform it in front of a live audience. When the Mar< 5rothers did their MGM comedies li e !Night #t $he Opera! B&'(3C and !# Day #t $he 9aces,! B&'()Cthey actually too the show on the road and performed it live in order to time the laughs and then went bac and shot the stuff. Fou cant do that in animation. Fou Aust have to guess that an audience is going to respond to the bit. BlaughterC #$T&( 4s that a little scary for you to thin about that= Goldberg( What you do, 4 thin , over the course of time is develop a sense of timing that is personal and that you now will communicate to a lot of people. $hats the best thing 4 can say. 4m wor ing on a piece right now for !$he Drew @arey "how."$heyre doing another improv show, e<cept its in front of a green screen so that animation can be put in around the improv actors. #$T&( Oh really. Goldberg( Fes. #nd it should premiere 4 thin in October. 4m animating this stuff and there are a couple of scenes and one has a horse character. 4t ta es place on a racetrac in this particular case, where 4 threw in this really wac ed0out sense of timing. #nd Aust watching a couple of scenes made me laugh, which is rare. 5ut it occurred to me, watching it, that if 4 added two more frames it wouldnt be funny anymore. 4ts that ind of thing that over the course of time, you ind of develop a sense of whats going to trigger an audience and how you really learn to respect one frame. Foure still stabbing in the dar . Fou dont now if an audience is going to respond until the darn film is finished. #$T&Q 4n a sense, youre already editing the animation as youre animating it. Goldberg( Fes. We have to, because theres really no going bac . Fes, you can twea and fiddle until the cows come home, but normally the cows are under pretty strict deadlines. 4ts the ind of thing where theres only so much of that you can do. #nd even if you ma e a very elaborate story reel of and continue twea ing the timing in the editing room, its still not the same as having it animated. /aving it animated gives it all of the nuance and all of the subtlety and fills in all the gaps that even a 6illion poses wont convey. #$T&( 4d li e to get an idea of what responsibilities you have as a supervising animator=

Goldberg at work

Goldberg( $he supervising animator on a Disney film is li e the eeper of that particular character. "o 4m the Genies eeper. What it means is with my crew, which we have the chance to select of the people who are at the studio, we develop the way the Genie loo s and the way the Genie moves. #s the supervising animator, 4m the go0to guy. $he animators would bring me a drawing and say, H4m having trouble this e<pression. Whats not wor ing here=I "o 4 put down a new piece of paper and go over it and give them a drawing to ta e away. $here was always a ind of hierarchy, so the animators would always bring me their pencil tests to approve before they too it to the director for his approval. $hey have so much wor to get through during the course of a feature that they rely very heavily on their supervising animators to ma e sure that their characters are doing what that character should be doing. #$T&( #ny e<amples= Goldberg( 4ll give you a case. When 4m tal ing about how a character moves and how a character would behave, its one thing to animate a character wal ing, but its Euite another thing to develop a particular wal for a particular character or a particular wal for a particular scene. One of the nice things about the Genie was that every scene in the movie was a great animation e<ercise. 4n one scene, you would have to move him li e an airline flight attendant. 4n another scene, youd have to move him li e #rnold "chwar6enegger. 4n another scene, youd have to have him move li e Ed "ullivan or do Grouchos wal . "o all of those things became great little animation set pieces because of the nature of the character. #nd even when you strip all of the ind of Euic change stuff away, he still has a style of movement. "lic . +ast. "mo ey, given his outer shape, yet still conveys some dimension to it. /is character is very elastic. $he Genie has much more play in his face than say, #laddin. #$T&( $heres a difference in the cartoon0li e features of the Genie versus #laddin and Kasmine, for e<ample. Goldberg( Fou ind of define the universe through the characters. #ll the supervising animators and the directors and production designers got together to develop the design of the cast so that everything felt unified in that ind of /irschfeld0style that 4 was aiming for. 4f you imagine #laddin and Kasmine are the most conservative end of that universe, but they still have the same ind of fluidity in the drawing that the Genie has. $he Genie and 4ago are the most wac ed0out end of that universe. #nd everything else is ind of somewhere in between. Fou now those are your parameters and all of those things reflect an overall design concept. 5ut you wouldnt, for e<ample, ta e #laddins face and stretch his Aaw down to his chest and do a double0ta e and ma e the eyes bug out of his head. #$T&( $he $e< #very approach. Goldberg( Fou have rules for every character. Fou have certain ways that they will move because of who they are. #nd thats really at the core of all of the successful Disney animation. 4ts not how well it moves, but why it moves that way. #$T&( $heyre believable characters, even in some of the shorts. Goldberg( Fes, absolutely. #$T&( Fou loo at some of these !Walt Disney $reasures! shorts that are out on DJD with Mic ey, Goofy and Donald Duc , its Aust great where you actually see personality within the characters. #fter awhile, you forget that youre watching an animated cartoon. Goldberg( 4 now. $he animators /oly Grail is to be able to achieve a character that loo s li e he is acting on his own thought process. /e e<ists on his terms, rather than loo ing li e a bunch of drawings pushed around by somebody. When it ma es that leap for an audience, thats really what everybody is aiming at. $he fact that we can call Donald Duc a character and define his personality and Goofy and define his personality, thats hugeN 5asically, youre Aust tal ing about a pile of drawingsN #nd what an accomplishment that is over the years to develop something thats so rich and so readable that people. 4f you say Donald Duc , they automatically now who Donald Duc is.

#$T&( #bsolutely. $hats the same with the Genie, too. Fou hear people tal ing about 9obin Williams performance as the Genie, which is fantastic. 5ut 4m wondering how much of your personality is actually instilled in the Genies character= Goldberg( Without trying to sound immodest, 4 would say its a 3-R3- proposition. $he voice trac is half the performance, and the animation performance is the other half. #nd 4 would say that of any animation performance. $he other thing that was nice, and even though it sounds li e 4m tying to ta e something away from 9obin, 4m about to give something right bac to him. 9obin and 4, with very little discussion, new without even saying so, that we were on the same wavelength. "o we could do certain things when he riffed and he new that 4 would pic up on it or the animators would pic up on it. $he nicest e<ample that 4 can thin of is when the Genie was telling #laddin, HFou now, no one ever uses the third wish to set him free.I #nd #laddin says, HWell, 4ll do it. 4ll set you free.! #nd the Genies response is, H:h0huh. Feah right.I BEric ma es a HboowoopI sound effect, imitating 9obin WilliamsC 4 had nown for years 9obins way of delineating 2inocchios nose growing. 9on B@lementsC didnt now that at the time. #nd 4 said, H7oo , we own this character. 7ets go for bro e and Aust turn him into 2inocchio and ma e that nose growN! #nd it was a huge laugh. 4n fact in previews, it was such a huge laugh we had to actually add time to the scene to allow for the laughter to settle down a little bit. 4ts the ind of thing where if it was a halfway, it wouldnt have been funny. 4f it was li e a bad ind of halfway version of 2inocchio, it Aust wouldnt have had the impact. $he fact that it really is 2inocchio for a split second its the ind of thing that you can do in animation and really ma e it wor . 9obin would do those inds of things and we would pic up on them. /e would Aust give us these pearls, and we would pic the ones that we Aust thought were the funniest. 4ts a subtle thing, for e<ample when inside the Genies cave, when he starts going into the 9obert De Niro !$a<i Driver! B&')OC bit, HFou tal in to me= Did you rub my lamp= Did you bring me here=I 4ts the ind of thing where 4 was very aware that as youre ma ing this thing, theres going to be a lot of ids in the audience that dont now who 9obert De Niro is. 5ut you can still ma e the acting funny and you can still ma e the drawings funny. +ortunately, the ids laughed Aust because of that. #nd grown ups laughed because they understood the other layer on top. 4n that particular case, we put it in the film thin ing that wed never ever get it to stay in. 4t Aust made us laugh too much. #nd 4 went bac to !$a<i Driver! and 4 watched De Niro in front of the mirror. 4 didnt rotoscope anything, but 4 got an idea of his gestures and his attitudes that he had adopted in front of the mirror and then caricatured them in the Genie scenes. "o its the ind of thing where the research has been done in order to ma e it resonate with the audience when they see it, but its got to wor on two levels. Lids arent going to now who Ed "ullivan is, but with him hunched over one arm over the other arm in the classic "ullivan gesture, its Aust ind of funny to loo at. #$T&( $he cave seEuence has so many rapid0fire Ao es that you have to go bac and watch it a few times Aust to catch everything. Goldberg( $o me that was probably the most important seEuence in the film, because it was the Genies introduction. #nd its probably the seEuence that 4 have the most personal animation in, in terms of what 4 did myself and passed out to the crew. 4f you dont introduce a character the right way in the movie, 4 thin youre sun . 4ts so important to be able to get an audience to ride with you at that moment. 4ll admit 4 was influenced by 9obins performance in !Good Morning, Jietnam! B&'8)C. $he first time you see him in that movie shouting, HGooooood morning, JietnamNI into the mi e, thats an entranceN #nd then he proceeds to deliver after that entrance. 4n this one, the Genies first word is, HOyNI 5ut its still a helluva entrance. #$T&( 4t stic s with you, especially with his performance and how you and your crew brought it out. Now you mentioned #l /irschfeld as an influence. Did you actually wor with him on !#laddin=! Goldberg( We did subseEuently on H9hapsody 4n 5lueI in !+antasiaR1---! B1---C. /e was our official #rtistic @onsultant on that one and yes we did wor with him. /e became my friend and "usans friend during !#laddin.! $he first time 4 ever spo e with him, Disney at the time would do a very early rollout to the press on their movies. $his was about si< months before the movie was released. $hey were having a press rollout in New For . 4 was a little nervous. 4d never met him. 4d admired him for so many years and here we were trying to utili6e his wor to inspire this movie. Out of the blue, 4 call him up. 5elieve it or not, he was listed in the New For telephone boo .

#$T&( 9eally= GoldbergQ "o 4 call him up and say, H4m Eric Goldberg. Fou dont me but 4m an animator at Disney and were here to publici6e the new Disney feature, !#laddin.! We would love for you to come down and see our presentation, because your wor has been such a huge inspiration to us. We ac nowledge you in the presentation. We would love for you to see what were doing and really than you for all the great wor and inspiration. #nd he said, HWell 4d love to come down, but you now 4ve got this deadline. 4 got these three drawings 4 gotta do for the New For $imes, then 4 gotta another one 4 gotta do for $ime Maga6ine. "o unfortunately 4m not going to be able to ma e it down.! "o 4 hung up the phone and 4 thought to myself, H/es 8'N BlaughterC When does it stop= /es still wor ing deadlinesNI
Left To Right: Randy Cartwright, Will Finn, Andreas De a, Eric Goldberg ! Leonard "altin

#$T&( $hats ama6ing. Goldberg( What happened subseEuently was at the Museum Of Modern #rt screening, we were standing in the lobby as people were going in. $he president then of +eature #nimation, 2eter "chneider, wal s by us and goes, H5y the way, youre #l ? Dolly /irschfelds minders tonight. #bout two seconds later, the car pulls up out comes #l and Dolly /irschfeld. 4ts li e, H:hhhN /i, you dont now who 4 am, butSI "uffice to say, 4 thin 4 raised the water table line New For with the sweat off my palms. 4 was so worried. 4 was sitting right ne<t to him thin ing, HOh my god, what if he hates it=I /e loved it. /e was so gracious about it. "ubseEuently, we had him come out to the studio for a wee and give lectures on caricature. We did lunchbo< interviews with him for the crew. 4t was Aust a wonderful time. /e was Aust so wonderful about the response to whole filmM not Aust the Genie, but the whole film. $he nicest compliment that he gave that evening was H4t all loo s li e it was drawn by the same hand.I #nd thats magic. 4t means we accomplished what we set out to do, even though we had 3-- people wor ing on it, he got that impression. $hat was thrilling. 4m tearing up thin ing about it. $here are moments in your life that are Aust gold and that was one of them. #$T&( What is it about his wor that fascinates you= Goldberg( $he thing that 4 love the most about his wor , and its not all of his wor , but 4 consider the Hprime /irschfeld,I is the simplicity of it. /e had an ability to boil the essence of a personality down into the fewest possible lines. /e could ma e two dots and a sEuiggle and ma e it loo li e @arol @hanning. 4ts the ind of thing where that ind of eye and translation of graphics trigger a response from a viewerTan obAective viewerTnot somebody whos tuned into artTanybody. /es unbelievable. Every now and again, youll see theres a lot of very nice, elaborate /irschfeld where he does a lot of crosshatching and things li e that. #nd he would say, HWhen 4 dont have the time, 4 ma e a fussy, complicated drawing. When 4 have the time, 4 ma e a simple one.I $hat stic s with me everyday of my life. $o be able to boil something down into its essence is really very much what animation is aboutM being able to communicate with the least amount of fuss. When 4 was designing the Genie, he went through several permutations and several of them had clothing on them. $he more we stripped off the Genie, the better he loo ed, the better he moved. #nd its the ind of thing that simplicity really came to the floor, because then it made him a character that you could do anything with. /e was the original "illy 2utty man. 4t was really /irschfelds influence. $he other thing about /irschfelds wor is his fluidity, the fact that one line leads in a very supple, organic way into another line. 4f you loo at some of /irschfelds simple, elegant drawings, youll see the line of a s ull continues all the way down the nec , all the way down the spine right into the leg. #nd its the ind of thing where you loo at it and its one continuous line. 4t might be bro en up a little bit by closing once in a while, but for the most part, he leaves those big strong lines in order to ma e a statement. /is ability to capture a personality in a single pose is also very, very animation friendly. $hat, in particular, for the Genie was paramount because you had to have a pose read for a new character or a new e<pression instantaneously or the character was never going to wor .

#$T&( Fou also used a lot of e<aggerated curves in designing the Genie. Goldberg( Fes, and that came from /irschfeld. When 4 first got there, 4 was the first animator assigned to !#laddin.! $he rest of the crew was doing !5eauty #nd $he 5east.! "o 4 had a year start on everybody. What 4 saw when 4 first got there were these terrific production design paintings by 9ichard Jander Wende, who went onto design Myst and various other famous computer games. $hey were what 4 would call H/ollywood #rabian,I where they too the HsI curves and all the curves found in #rabic design and e<aggerated and made them larger than life. #nd in a way, that was actually very pleasant for a cartoon. 4 now these days

people use the word cartoon Bli e its badC IWell its Aust a cartoon, but we dont do cartoonsTwe do animation.I #nd 4 love the word cartoon. /e had these great cartoony, very curvy environments that he had painted. 5eing the first animator and getting my feet wet on character design during that time, 4 thought what ind of characters fit in a curvy environment= @urvy characters, ergo, /irschfeld. "o that was really the impetus for me, plus the fact that prior to that, HangularI had been all the rage in television commercials in 7ondon up until that point. 4 ind of had my fill of angular which is not fran ly animation friendly design concept. Fou can do it and it can loo beautiful. 2robably the pinnacle at Disney #$lee%ing &ea'ty# feat'res ang'lar drawings( )The was !"leeping 5eauty! B&'3'C. 5ut its not animator friendly, whereas Walt Disney Co*%any+ round shapes are. "o 4 had a personal desire to get bac to round again. 9ound sEuared, if you will, because of the e<aggerated curves in a /irschfeld drawing. #nd it seemed to be the perfect thing to marry with 9ichards production design. #$T&( 4 Aust reali6ed that when 4 loo at a picture of the Genie, you follow the curves from his head all the way down to the lamp. Goldberg( #lso theres something to be said for using a characters entire body to be e<pressive. # lot of the Genie is doing that. $he fact that you remember the curves and you remember the entire body is good, because that is a huge part of his shape shifting is being able to e<press, through his body shape, what hes thin ing or who hes being, and utili6ing that for being able to telegraph his emotions to the audience. $hats good. 4m glad you do recall that. 4t was an absolutely conscience effort on our part. #nd fran ly, we always try and do that in animation anyway. $he more realistic animation becomes, the less styli6ed you can ma e those ind of poses. 5ut even so, in the human characters, theres an element of caricature and playfulness that is not present in the handling of human characters in other recent Disney films. #nd thats all part and parcel of the style. One thing animators li e to do once in a while to get an effect on screen is a smear drawing. 4 dont now if you now what that is. #$T&( @an you describe it= Goldberg( 5asically if you have a character in one pose and you want to go to another pose, you ma e one elongated drawing between those two poses that act as if a live0action blur would act, if you analy6ed it single frame and a character were moving fast. "o basically youre smearing the character from one pose to the ne<t, and then following it up with a couple more drawings. Now 4 use that in the Genie all the time in order to get him from one pose to the ne<t. 5ut you now what= "o did Glen BLeaneC on !#laddinN! $here are smear drawings wor ed into !#laddin.! 5ut you dont see them in movement, and you shouldnt see them in movement. 4ts a ind of thing where if you see them, then theyre not wor ing. #nd if you feel them, then they are wor ing. $he techniEue was really developed first at Disney. 4 thin the guys who really too it to town were the Warner 5ros. guys, particularly on the @huc Kones unit and on the 5ob @lampet unit. #$T&( Did you use those films and some of the other Disney films as influences when you were doing !#laddin!= Goldberg( 4ts all part of the gray matter upstairs, lets put it that way. $he two biggest influences Disney0 wise on the Genie were Ward Limball and +reddie Moore, whose animation 4 love. 4n fact, early on when we were tal ing about the designs to the studio, 4 put a Genie drawing on the down shooter and ne<t to it 4 would put a +reddie Moore drawing of Mic ey Mouse from !$he 7ittle Whirlwind! B&',&C and darned if it didnt have the same elegance of curves as a /irschfeld drawing. +reddie Moore was such a fluid draftsman that he would be able to have one shape leading all the way down the bac and across the leg and bac up. #nd 4 said, H$he studios already done this.I #nother nice e<ample, and 4m staring at it right now because 4 have a cell of it in my $J room here, is !Melody $ime! B&',8C which was designed by Mary 5lair in the HOnce :pon # WintertimeI seEuence where the characters are very, very curvy and styli6ed and move beautifully. #ll the ice s ating stuff Aust moves in a beautiful way, but it never brea s that design. $he design is always ept at the forefront. $he studios have this stuff. We Aust have to ind of go bac to the past and see it. #nd as far as Ward Limballs stuff is concerned, well, he was a studio maveric . /e was the !try anything! guy. $hat was part and parcel of the Genie all the time. What can we turn this into that the audience isnt going to e<pect= 4n !$hree @aballeros! B&',3C theres a line 2anchito sings, HWere brave and well say so.I #nd he points a gun at the camera and he lets the mu66le of the gun say the line, H#nd well say so.I Kust that little split second thing thats bi6arre, but its funnyN

5etween those two animators at Disney, they were huge, huge influences on the Genie for the ind of Euic silver changes and fluidity of drawing. 4ts always scary for a big studio to ind of change gears and try something theyve never tried before. $o a certain e<tent, Disneys had a house style. 5ut every now and again, they would attempt to brea out of it. $he HOnce :pon # WintertimeI being a good e<ample. !&-& Dalmatians! B&'O&C is a good e<ample. !"leeping 5eauty! is a good e<ample. !&-& Dalmatians! really loo s li e the Disney version of a 9onald "earle cartoon, especially in the bac ground designs, but even in the character design as well. /orace and Kasper loo almost li e they can be "earle drawings. #$T&( 4f 4m recalling correctly, a lot of hard angular lines were used on those films. Goldberg( 4ts e<aggerated lengths of limbs. # boney wrist would be a hard angle. $he postures of characters are very important. #nd there was a ind of scratchiness to the drawing that resembled a ind of pen and in drawing. 4t really does feel li e 7ondon of the early DO-s and late D3-s. "o every now and again, Disney would try and brea out of what was considered their conventional style. 4f you want to say !@inderella! B&'3-C and !2eter 2an! B&'3(C are conventional style, or more recently, !Mermaid! and !5eauty #nd $he 5east.! 4ts always difficult to ma e a studio ind of turn around, HO ay everybody, were doing this now.I $hat ta es a huge amount of artistic commitment on the part of the crew. #$T&( 4 recall when !#laddin! came out, reviewers were saying how much of a departure it was for Disney to do a film li e this. #nd it was true, and yet there was still a lot of that Disney influence within the film as you watch it. 4t still has that Disney flare that a lot of the older feature animated films had. #nd even some of the shorts had it, too. Goldberg( Fes, and we all too that seriously. Kust because we were going for a different design concept doesnt mean were throwing out all the stuff we admire from Disney films past that were really, really great. 4ts the ind of thing where the characters still had to be rich personalities. Fou still had to care about them. Fou still had to have the production value that felt li e a Disney film. $here are still so many things. Fou still have to feel the main character had an arc where he would develop over the course of the film. #ll of these things were very, very important Disney tenets that we werent going to drop that were Aust as important as anything new we were trying. #$T&( 4 Aust thought of, ind of in a weird way, comparing the character of #laddin growing from a boy to a man, to 2inocchio growing from a wooden boy to a real boy. 5oth of those characters eventually grow up and ta e on responsibility. Goldberg( $he audience wants to see those Aourneys. $hats what really hoo s them. No matter how much you can ma e an audience laugh, there still has to be something in it that they can relate to as a human story, if you will. One of the most important things to me was the ending of the film when the Genie and #laddin part company. 4 ept telling them to add more footage, more screen time. We could actually watch the reactions on their faces and reali6e theyre never going to see each other again. $hats important. $heyve built up this huge buddy relationship throughout the movie and now its going to be over. "o you have to ac nowledge that. Fou cant Aust goTboomTstraight into laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, HO ay 4ll see DyaNI Fou cant. 4 cant, anyway. $hose inds of moments are very, very important. 2eople as me what the toughest part of doing the Genie was. 4 said ma ing the audience believe he has these sincere moments, even while hes bouncing off the walls. 4f 4 can accomplish that, then he really is a fully rounded personality. #$T&( /e definitely did. Even interspersed through the story before the ending, he had those moments where its li e, H@ome on #laddin, reali6e whats going on.I Goldberg( 4ts throughout the story. Fou do have those moments. 4f you Aust play everything on a surface laugh level, then nobody gets anything out of it. #nd after awhile, the laughs can even become tiresome. One thing that 4 thin was Euite brilliant that Kohn and 9on did in the film, and it was ind against studio conventional wisdom, the studio was very hot on the Genie. $hey were very pleased with what they were seeing. #nd they were saying, HFou got to get to the Genie earlier.I Kohn and 9on dont let the Genie emerge until twenty minutes into the film. $hat is a huge deal. $he first time 4 saw it with an audience, its li e they set off a firecrac er. #ll of a sudden, the movie went to a whole different level. 5ut that twenty minutes before sets up all the pins for the rest of the story and your understanding of the character and your understanding of their relationships and their problems. #nd if you brought the Genie in any earlier, #* /e wouldnt have had the impact, and 5* Fou wouldnt have cared about the main characters. $he decision to hold him off, hold him off, hold him off was really Euite brilliant in my opinion as far as the directorial decisions are. /e had e<actly

the intended effect when he arrived on screen. 4f they had introduced him ten minutes into the movie, it wouldnt have been the same movie. #$T&( /itchcoc did that with !2sycho! B&'O-C. /e intentionally ept the plot going along slowly until the maAor shoc scene. Obviously"#laddin" is not slow and doesnt have a shoc scene. Goldberg( 4 thin !2sycho! is wonderful because its filled with all those audacious things, not the least of which he ills off the main character. #$T&( $hat film still shoc s me to this day. $hats how well done it was. Goldberg( Fou have to do those things. Fou also find out during the course of the film, even though theyre doing a lot of set0up in that first act, how they play it out with twists and turns that you didnt e<pect. When #laddin finds out its not all its crac ed up to be a prince, hes not coping and he has to ma e some tough decisions, some of which are wrong. /is desire to live in the palace in the front part of the movieThe gets that wish through the Genie, but doesntTwhere at least he gets to fa e it. 4t doesnt ring true to him and it doesnt ring true anybody else, either. $o set it up, and then complicate it is again, very sophisticated storytelling. #$T&( #re you wor ing on anything besides Drew @areys !Green "creen "how! that you can tal about= Goldberg( 4ve been doing a lot of freelance stuff. One thing that "usan and 4 did do was three new pieces for the !#laddin! DJD bonus features. We actually have three new pieces of animation in there. One is a public service spot for the Ma e # Wish +oundation with the Genie as the star. $he other two are postcards that the Genie sends bac to Kafar and 4ago basically saying, HNeh0neh0nehN $his is the fun 4m having.I #nd the other piece is 4ago ta ing a tour inside the Genies lamp. Now that the Genies gone, its for rent. Kafar boots him out of the lamp, so hes loo ing for a new place to live. /e goes inside the Genies lamp and hes shown around by the voice of the lamp who happens to be 9obin 7each. "o we did those three pieces. 4ts always fun revisiting these characters. #nd the guys 4 wor ed with at 5uena Jista /ome Jideo were superb in terms of my input on those pieces. 4 said to them that this is the ind of atmosphere we used to have when we created this movie in the first place. $hey were Aust great to wor with and it was nice to be able to do those pieces and have the characters ind of alive again. #$T&( $han you Eric. Goldberg( 4ts been a pleasure tal ing with you.