Mainstream Islam (Ahlus-Sunnah) Vs.

Shia Sect (12ers Shias) Debate 2014

January 1 4, 2014 at Facebook.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/173322239409219/permalink/591258720948900/

"Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Abu Jaiyana please have a choice in these three topics for our debates: 1) Who are true Muslims - Shia or Sunni?...See More
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Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali We have to post first our presentations in Shia Vs Sunni Where Is The Truth group, then we can repost here in your group. December 31, 2013 at 7:31pm Edited Like Abu Jaiyana Here is my proposal, subject to your approval: FORMAT: PART I 1. Presentation of Arguments by Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali 2. Presentation of Arguments by Abu Jaiyana PART II - Cross-Examination 3. Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali to ask questions to Abu Jaiyana (5) questions maximum 4. Response by Abu Jaiyana 5. Abu Jaiyana to ask questions to Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali (5) questions maximum 6. Response bycAhmed Zulfiqar Ali PART III - Rebuttals 7. Rebuttal by Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali

8. Rebuttal by Abu Jaiyana PART 4 - Conclusions 9. Conclusion by Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali 10. Conclusion by Abu Jaiyana DEBATE RULES: ============================= 1. Presentation of arguments should not exceed 2000 word count (This can be checked by Microsoft office word count). The post for the presentation of Speaker should not exceed 500 words which would be posted before the presentation of Arguments. This 500 word count is not part of the 2500 word count limit for the Presentation of Arguments In case Facebook refuses to accept a 2500 word count post at the same time, the debater/poster is allowed to divide his response in two or three posts right after the other but should not exceed the word count limit. Once posted, no editing is allowed. 2. Cross-exam questions should be limited to 5 questions maximum and all questions should not exceed 500 words. All 5 questions are to be posted at the same time by the questioner. 3. Responses to all questions should not exceed 2000 words 4. Rebuttals should not exceed 2000 words 5. Conclusions should not exceed 1500 words 6. No edition of posts is allowed. Violation to this would render the violator lost by default or by technicality. 7. Both Debaters is given 24 hours to reply. Failure to do so the Moderator/Admin will automatically declare him lost by default. 8. Links posted as reference/evidence is included in the word count allotted for each debater. Scriptural quotations should be indicated, book, chapter, and verse/s. 9. No ad hominem (personal attacks) shall be allowed or posting of porno photos or anything indecent, or disrespectful to any faith or religion. 10. Since there is no Debate Moderator both debaters are expected to follow the format's sequence, and the rules correctly and in good faith. 11. Any violation to the above format and rules will render the violator lost by default. The rules shall take effect as soon as Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali has posted his self-introduction and opening arguments. December 31, 2013 at 7:34pm Edited Like 1

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Abu Jaiyana Note: The Shia Rafida Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali did not fulfill his words that he would re- post his posts in the special debate group created ( Shias often lie - they simply call it taqiya). So the debate is now being continued in their forum. Thanks for the Admin for pinning the debate thread - I hope it will not be deleted just like my last debate with him in their other forum. about an hour ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali DEBATE: Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali (Shia of Prophet Muhammad(s)) vs Abu Jaiyana (Sunni of umar alkhatab) This is the agreed topic of the debate: "Are Shias true Muslims?: Affirmative : Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Negative : Abu Jaiyana Like Unfollow Post 1142 December 31, 2013 at 10:18pm 58 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Abu Jaiyana here is my presentation of the Topic January 1 at 2:22am Like 3 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali A) Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim I begin in the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah the Lord of the universe. To Allah alone we seek help, mercy and forgiveness. And we seek refuge with Allah from the evil of our own souls, from our bad deeds and from misguidance. Whomsoever Allah guides will never be led astray, and whomsoever Allah leaves astray, no one can guide. I bear witness that there is no god worthy of worship but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Last Prophet. I bear witness also that Allah had chosen 12 Caliphs/Imams/Teachers to function as Guidance to the right path after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) - the first was Imam Ali(a) and the 12th is Imam Mahdi. They are all from the purified ahl-Bayt (Family) of Prophet Muhammad(s) Pease and Blessing of Allah be upon Prophet Muhammad(s) and the 12 Caliphs/Imams/Guides from

his purified ahl-Bayt. My presentation in this debate is all about showing to those who are truth seekers that Shia Muslims are the true and best Muslims in this planet because they are in the right guidance. Why they are in the right guidance? The answer is because after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) they followed only the 12 authorized Caliphs/Imams/Teachers/Guides from the purified Family of our believed Prophet Muhammad(s). They never followed any people who are not unauthorized, misguided or having lack of Islamic knowledge. About Islam and its doctrines, the Shia Muslims only listened and followed the 12 purified members of the ahl-Bayt who are the genuine successors of Prophet Muhammad(s). These 12 will function as next Masters of the Ummah (acting as Caliphs, Imams, Teachers, Guides, etc. of the ummah). These 12 Imams or 12 Caliphs from ahl-Bayt are the only authorized teachers of Islam after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). They will teach us the genuine Sunnah of Rasul(s) and to interpret for us the difficult verses of the Quran. About the question of what is true Islam and what is the correct/true aqeda, the Shias never listened to those people who are not authorized by Allah swt to teach Islam and its aqeda. That is why among those people who claimed to be Muslims in this planet only those Shia Muslims who followed (i.e. Shias) the 12 Caliphs/Imams/Teachers/Guides from ahl-Bayt are in the right path - hence they are the only true Muslims of the ummah. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx January 1 at 2:47am Like 4 57 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali B ) Illegitimate Sects of Islam Had Emerged Only After the Death of Prophet Muhammad(s): Take note that there were no sects or sub-groups of Islam during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad(s). During his time, there is only one Islam. The divisions and sects of Islam came only after his death. The main reason is that after his death, Islam is under the mercy of every Muslim who wanted to preach Islam with their own knowledge and own understanding about the Quraan and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad(s). Their own teachings and interpretations constitute what they claimed is the Islam of Prophet Muhammad(s). The danger is that If they have wrong interpretation or lack of true knowledge, their so called Islam is then a mixture of truth and falsehood or bidaah Islam. We know is that those unauthorized teachers and interpreters outside the purified ahl-Bayt differed very much to each other. They have different opinions or interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad. Their differences in opinion and interpretatio ns of the Quraan and Sunnah is the main reason why there are many sects or groups in Islam that came out after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). We have to take note that there Are People Who Are Authorized By Allah As Guidance of the Ummah. So to avoid misguidance of the ummah after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s), Allah must have authorized some people as next Masters of the Ummah to act as the Caliphs/Imams/Teachers/Guides whom the people must be obeyed after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). They must be chosen or authorized by Allah to ensure the Ummah have still sure guidance to the right path after the death of

Prophet Muhammad. They will teach the correct aqeda of Islam. They will teach us the genuine sunnah of Prophet Muhammad(s). As for the proof of the existence of these authorized people, Allah in the Quraan had testified: O' you who believe! Obey Allah, and Obey Apostle and Those from among you who are given authority (by Allah)."(Quran 4:59) January 1 at 2:48am Edited Like 5 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali C) Only Allah swt Will Choose People To Act As Guidance of The Ummah After The Death Of Prophet Muhammad. Shias believe the Only Allah will choose who are the Guidance Of The Ummah. Shias believed that our 12 Caliphs/Imams from ahl-Bayt were chosen by Allah swt for that purose. But no any single sunni who believe or will claim that their caliphs or imams were chosen by Allah swt. The belief that only Allah swt will choose or authorize People to guide the ummah are imbedded in the Quran. There is no ayat in the quran telling us that the Guides of the ummah were chosen by the people. All are chosen by Allah swt: 1) Holy Quran 32:24 "And We appointed from among them some Imams who guide by our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." 2) Holy Qur'an 21:73. And We made them Imaams (leaders), guiding (mankind) by Our Command, and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds, performing Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and the giving of Zakat and of Us (Alone) they were worshippers. 3) Holy Quran 13:7 "(O' Muhammad!) You are but a Warner, and for every community there exists a Guide (i.e Imam/Calip/Teacher of Islam)." 4) Surah Maryam, Verse 58: Those were they unto whom Allah bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, of the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nuh (Noah), and of the offspring of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Israel and from among those whom We guided and Chose (i.e. the chosen 12 Caliphs/Imams/Guides from ahl-Bayt). xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx January 1 at 2:49am Like 5 57 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali D) Shias Are The True Muslims Because They Followed The Authorized Teachers of Islam Authorized Teachers of Islam means they are authorized guidance to the right path of Islam after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). Following them will surely make you a true Muslim. Like the Shia Muslims, all sects of Islam had at least claimed to be Muslims. But others like among the sects of the sunnis will claim that they are the only true Muslims. Here I will show that the true Muslims are the Shia Muslims because they followed the 12 Caliphs/ Imams from Ahl-Bayt who are authorized by Allah swt as teachers and interpreters of the Quran and Sunnah. Those who followed the Quran and Sunnah as per their own interpretations and reject the interpretations from the purified 12 Caliphs/ Imams from ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s) can never be a true Muslims. They can be called misguided Muslims or incomplete Muslims because they did not follow the 12 Imams/Teachers from ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s). Because the only people who are our true guidance to the right path after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) are only the purified members of the ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s). Proof that Only the Ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s) are our Guidance to the right path are the following: 1) Tirmidhi, Volume 6, Chapter 31, Hadith No. 3788: Zaid bin Arqam, narrated that the messenger of Allah . said: "Indeed, I am leaving among you, that which if you hold fast to them, you shall not be misguided after me. One of then is greater than the other: (First is) The book of Allah is a rope extended from the sky to the earth, and (the second is) my family, the people of my house (ahlul bait), and they shall not split until they meet me at the hawd, so look at how you deal with them after me." (Sahih). 2) Sahih Muslim, Book 031: Hadith # 5920 A narration attributed to Yazid b. Hayyan reports: I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you TWO WEIGHTY THINGS that if you will follow you will never go astray: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my ahl-bayt (household) I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the

offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes." Take note of this: As per the above hadiths just quoted, ONLY THE AHL-BAYT OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(S) ARE OUR GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH. THOSE WHO ARE NOT FROM AHL-BAYT ARE MISGUIDANCE. SHIA MUSLIMS ONLY FOLLOW THE 12 IMAMS FROM AHL-BAYT, THEREFORE SHIAS ARE THE TRUE MUSLIMS. SUNNIS DID NOT FOLLOW THE 12 IMAMS FROM AHL-BAYT AFTER THE DEATH OF PROPHET MUHAMAMD(S). THEY HAVE NO IMAMS FROM AHL-BAYT WHO WILL TEACH THEM THE CORRECT ISLAM AND GENUINE SUNNAH OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(S), THEREFORE SUNNIS ARE NOT TRUE MUSLIMS. THEY ARE DEVIATED FROM TRUE GUIDANCE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO 12 CALIPHS/IMAMS/TEACHERS/GUIDES FROM AHL-BAYT. January 1 at 2:51am Like 5 54 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali E) Total Numbers Of Allahs Authorized or Chosen Masters Of the Ummah (ie. Caliphs/Imams/Guides/Teachers) Should Be 12 People Only: Shias are true Muslims because we have 12 Caliphs/Imams/Guides/Teachers from ahl-Bayt. Sunnis are not true Muslims because they have no 12 Caliphs/Imams/Guides/Teachers from ahl-Bayt . Our proofs That Islam has Only 12 Caliphs/Imams/Guides/Teachers are the following: 1) I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."( Sahih Bukhari: Judgments (Ahkaam),Volume 9 Book 89 Hadith # 6785) 1) Sahih Bukhari 89.329 Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish." 2) Sahih Muslim Book 020: Number 4477, 4478, 4480, 4481, 4482, 4483: Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh. 3) Sunan Abu Dawood Book 36: Number 4266 : The Prophet said: "This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh." 4) Sunan al-Tirmidhi Chapter of Fitan, 2:45 (India) and 4:501 Tradition # 2225: The Prophet said: "There will be after me twelve Amir (Prince/Ruler), all of them from Quraysh." Shias have 12 Caliphs all chosen by Allah swt while sunnis have only 4 caliphs all chosen by some people. Therefore Shias are the true Muslims.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx January 1 at 2:54am Like 5 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali F) The Word Being Used Will Tell us Who are True Muslims After the death of Prophet Muhammad(s), those who followed the 12 Imams/Caliphs/Teachers/Guides from ahl-Bayt are called Shia. The word Shia is used in the quran and hadith. It is being used by Allah swt describing the followers of Noah(a) and Moses(s) and being used by Prophet Muhammad(s) to describe the followers and supporters of the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt. The Word Shiah In The Quraan: 1) Allah (swt) in the Holy Qur'an states this fact by saying: "Wa in-na Min Shi-ah tihi la-Ibarheem" (and one of his - Prophet Noah's, Shi'ahs/follower Was Prophet Ibraheem). Holy Qur'an (37:83). 2) The second time Qur'an uses the term Shi'ah is about the follower of Prophet Musa (as) when they were still captivity in Egypt. This is how the Holy Qur'an says it: "Fas-ta-gha-tha hul lazee howa min Shi-ah tihi...." ( the one who was the Shi-ah/follower of Musa (as) asked him for help...). Holy Qur'an (28:15). The Word Shiah in Hadiths: 1) Holy Prophet [s] said to Ali [as]: O Ali! You will come infront of Allah. And your Shia will be pleased and liked (favourite) and your enemies will be tied up infront on him in anger. And then Ali placed his hands behind his head on his neck to demonstrate in the manner his enemies will be tied up. Sunni reference: Sawaiq al Muhirqah, page 519 2) The Prophet (SAWA) was asked by Ibn `Abbas about the verse of Allah in the Quran, And the Foremost Ones are the foremost ones: they are the ones brought near to Allah [Quran 56:10,11], to which he replied, This refers to Ali and his Shi`ah - they will be the foremost to enter Paradise, the ones brought near to Allah through His Magnanimity over them.[Amali al-Tusi, p. 72, no. 104] But there is no word sunni mentioned in the quran and hadith. That is bidaah word used by misguided Muslims. Allah and His Prophet never used that word sunni. Allah never called a single individual as sunni. So even from the name itself, the Shia Muslims are the true muslims and sunnis are not true Muslims but fakes. END OF MY PRESENTATION January 1 at 2:55am Like 5 54 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Now its your turn Abu Jaiyana. You can transfer all my posts also to your debate group if you like January 1 at 3:01am Like 4

Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Abu Jaiyana I will post my presentation in your own debate group after you post your presentation here. January 1 at 9:49am Like 2 Abu Jaiyana hahaha, i really smell something fihsy here. Last night, a special debate group was created for our debate, and my opponent joined the group and the rules and format of the debate was presented and was agreed upon by my opponent by way of no objection. Now, he still cant depart from here why?? January 1 at 11:10am Like 1 Abu Jaiyana He already have made an ad hominem and a strawman fallacy for me by labelling me as sunni of Umar etc. That is his pathetic way of telling us that he is not really followers of the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet s.a.w. but the Ahlul Bayt of Ibn Sabaa, the hypocrite Jew who founded Shiaism. January 1 at 11:10am Like 3 Abu Jaiyana Anyway, he promised to post his presentation in that special group when after I have posted mine here. For the sake of having this debate done, I will again concede to his fishy and childish demand. The format and the rules of this debate are there in that special group and was agreed upon. That means that the posts here are mere dummies. We will presumed that the rules and the format of the debate will be followed by my opponent. My presentaion starts in my next post. Thank you January 1 at 11:11am Like 2 53 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana I begin by mentioning the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Salutations to our beloved Prophet Muhammad s.a.w., to the members of his noble family, to his noble companions, and those who follow their footsteps until the Last Day. After that: Greetings to all readers; as-salamu alaikum to all the Muslims, and good day to the Shias, and to all non-Muslims.

The topic of this debate is very important and critical especially for the Shias. Many, if not all of them, think that they are the true Muslims despite being a minute splinter group, or a small fraction of the Muslim Ummah. Many people also think that they are one of the sects in Islam. However, after thorough study and scrutiny of the belief system of the Shias (Twelvers Shias), it clearly shows that they are not even among the Muslims, but they belong to another religion altogether Shiaism a pseudo-Islam i.e. FAKE ISLAM. A BIG DISPUTE ABOUT THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE RELIGION ITSELF Argument # 1 SHIAISM TEACHES A FALSE FOUNDATION OF ISLAM i.e. Imamat What Is Islam, What Are Its Religious Foundations? Muslims since the very beginning have been taught about what Islam is and what are its foundations or pillars. In a famous, and authentic hadith, the Prophet s.a.w. said that Islam is based on the following: 1. To testify that there is no deity worthy to be worshipped but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, 2. To establish the prayer i.e. the 5 obligatory daily prayers, 3. To pay the Zakah i.e. for those who are able, 4. To perform Hajj in the sacred house i.e. in Makkah 5. To fast in the month of Ramadan Also, in another very famous hadith called the hadith of Jibreel a.s. when the Prophet s.a.w. was asked about what Islam is, he enumerated the above-mentioned pillars. In the same hadith, he was also asked about Iman, and Ihsan and he enumerated what are those, and they are famous and known to every Muslim who has studied the basics of Islam. References: Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 47 Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0001 However, later group who is believed to be founded by a mushrik Jew, Abdullah Ibn Sabaa, has modified the above-mentioned prophetic teaching about the foundations of Islam, and they invented the so-called doctrine of Imamat. From this doctrine of Imamat, the noble companions especially the major companions, and the wives of the Holy Prophet of Islam are being abused and cursed by this group, and from Imamat, the Shias committed a MAJOR SHIRK which made them be declared as not just non-Muslims but MUSHRIKS or polytheists. In this doctrine of Imamat, the Shias couldnt see that what they are doing is Shirk. January 1 at 11:11am Like 3 52 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana What Is Imamat (Imamah)? It simply means that AFTER THE DEMISE OF THE PROPHET S.A.W. THERE WILL BE 12 INFALLIBLE (ERROR-FREE) INDIVIDUALS WHICH ARE DIVINELY APPOINTED BY ALLAH TO BE THE CALIPHS OF THE MUSLIMS, AND THOSE WHO REJECT ANYONE OF THEM IS A KAFIR. In Shiaism religion, it is an USOOL-Ud-DEEN or foundation, pillar, of the religion i.e. Pillar of Islam. In order for us to prove that this doctrine of Imamat is a made-up teaching about the pillars of Islam, here are my challenges to my opponent during his rebuttal in sha Allah: 1. Give us an authentic hadith from the Prophet s.a.w. in which he said that Imamat is one of the foundations or pillars of Islam. 2. In case you reject our hadiths, as most of the Shias do, then give us an ayah/verse of the Quran without any addition which says that after the Prophet there will be 12 infallible persons and that Muslims should follow them. Ladies and Gents, most of the Shias reject the agreed upon authentic books of hadith of the Muslims because if they dont, then their Imamah is FALSE. It is so because many of these hadith in no certain terms, explicitly indicates the legitimacy of the Caliphate of Abubakr As-Siddiq and the clear indications of the inclination of the Prophet s.a.w that Abubakr should be his successor, though he left it to his companions to decide the matter. It is an Islamic way of consultation called SHURA. Moreover, Ali bin Abi Talib r.a. admitted that the best persons after the Prophet is Abubakr As-Siddiq, and then Umar Al Farook r.a. that is in a very clear/unambiguous words of Ali r.a. Examples: Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20: Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya: I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person. Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 661: The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "OBEY THE ONE WHO WILL BE GIVEN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE FIRST. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 675: The Prophet said, "Amongst the people preceding you there used to be 'Muhaddithun' (i.e. persons who can guess things that come true later on, as if those persons have been inspired by a divine power), and if there are any such persons amongst my followers, it is 'UMAR BIN AL-KHATTAB." Compare with the following hadiths: Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 7 Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 11 Sahih MuslimBook 031, Number 5878 Sahih MuslimBook 031, Number 5879 Sahih MuslimBook 031, Number 5877 Sunan Abu Dawood Book 40, Number 4632 Sunan Abu Dawood Book 40, Number 4635 Everyone who knows the basics of Islam that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (Sahihayn) are the best books of Hadiths for the Muslims, and then Sunan Abu Dawood. The texts are so explicit about the legitimacy of the Caliphate of Abubakr and the admission of Ali about the superiority of Abubakr. But for the Muslims, it is political Issue. Had the companions of the Prophet chosen Ali r.a. as the first Caliph, we dont have any problem with it so it is not a major issue in the foundation of Islam. January 1 at 11:12am Like 3 Abu Jaiyana The Shias cant help themselves but to reject the authentic sayings of the Prophet s.a.w. though 90% of the Muslim Ummah accept them to be true. They say that those are false narrations could be made up by the Ummayyad Clan. The five pillars of Islam mentioned by the Prophet in those ahadith were/may be made up ahadith by the Ummayyads. Let us ride this Shia argument for a while for the sake of argument. Okay then, we will not use any hadith because they are not reliable as the Shias claim. However, we have to agree that the Quran is our common and ultimate source of knowledge. The Quran says that it is a book of guidance for the believers, therefore we could say that if there is something important that Allah wants us to believe in or to do, He s.w.t. would have mentioned it in the Quran, otherwise people could not be blamed for not believing of something they dont know because Allah didnt mentioned it, especially if it is one of the foundations of the religion. I can provide clear-cut verses from the Quran which mention Salah, Hajj, Fasting, Zakah, and et cetera, without making any minute interpretation that they are mandated by Allah. I will provide those ayats in case my opponent would ask for them. Now, let us turn the deal to my Shia opponent Provide for us a SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN IN WHICH ALLAH INFORMS/MANDATED THE MUSLIM TO FOLLOW 12 INFALLIBLE INDIVIDUALS

AFTER THE PROPHET i.e. Imamat/Imamah. Remember that particular this teaching in Shiaism is an USOOL-Ud-DEEN it is a primary issue unlike the Furu ud-deen. It has to be explicitly written in the Quran WHERE IS IT written??? If my opponent cant provide any verse from the Quran as requested, then know and understand that THEIR RELIGION IS A MADE-UP, CONCOCTED, PSEUDO-ISLAM RELIGION, and therefore Shias are non-Muslims. Notice folks that my opponent has already quoted ayats from the Quran which only Shias think that it is a verse for their Imamat doctrine, however as you have seen, NONE OF THOSE AYATS says after the Prophet there will be 12 infallible persons who are divinely appointed by God to be the Caliphs of the Muslims and that Muslims should follow and obey them. What we need to see is a clear-cut verse just like the verses of Salah, Fasting, Hajj, Zakah, et cetera because they are the foundations/pillars of the Religion. Even if I will not refute those ayats in my rebuttal, they would not mean anything to this debate because not one of those ayat says about the 12 infallible persons after the Prophet that Muslims should follow. The Sahih hadith about the 12 Caliphs has been brought up again, but my opponent simply dug a hole for himself because only 4 of their Imams became Caliphs, therefore the prophecy about the 12 Caliphs doesnt fit to their 12 Imams it is an evidence for the Sunnis, not for the Shias. I will expound my response in my rebuttal in sha Allah January 1 at 11:12am Like 3 51 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana Argument #2 Shiaism teaches and practices polytheism (Shirk) therefore they are Mushriks (polytheists), they are not Muslims because Shirk is the antithesis of Tawheed. As I have mentioned in my argument #1, because of the false doctrine of Imamat, Shias became and classified as not only non-Muslims but sadly Mushriks (polytheists). Here are the evidences from their best book of hadith Al Kafi which is the Sahih Bukhari for the Shia: The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to the angels, prophets, and messengers. - Al-Kafi, p.255 The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them. Al -Kafi, p. 260

There is not a single truth possessed by a people saved that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false. Al -Kafi, p.399 The Imams know when they will die, and they only die by their choice. Al Kafi volume 1 page 258 Muhammad Rida Al Muzaffar said in his book Faith in Shia Islam page 32: We believe that like the Prophet, an Imam must be infallible, that is to say INCAPABLE OF MAKING ERRORS OR DOING WRONG EITHER INWARDLY OR OUTWARDLY FROM HIS BIRTH TO HIS DEATH, EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY because THE IMAMS ARE THE PRESERVERS OF ISLAM AND IT IS UNDER THEIR PROTECTION Those polytheistic and false belief by the Shias are refuted by Allah in the Quran, and by the Prophet s.a.w: Al Quran 31: 34. Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs, nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow, nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things). Sahih Muslim Volume 9, Book 93, Number 476: The Prophet said, "The keys of the unseen are five and none knows them but Allah: (1) None knows what is in the womb, but Allah: (2) None knows what will happen tomorrow, but Allah; (3) None knows when it will rain, but Allah; (4) None knows where he will die, but Allah (knows that); (5) and none knows when the Hour will be established, but Allah." So folks, who is telling the truth, Allah and His messenger s.a.w. or the Shias? I leave that for you to decide for yourselves. I believe that ALLAH S.W.T. AND HIS MESSENGER S.A.W SPOKE THE TRUTH, while the SHIAS ARE LIARS. January 1 at 11:12am Like 2 Abu Jaiyana Here is one of the many examples of the polytheistic rituals of the Shia: Mustadrak al-Wasaa'il of al-Tabrasi, page 310: Then you place your right cheek on the earth and you say a hundred times in prostration, "O Muhammad, O Alee, O Alee, O Muhammad, suffice me (in my needs) for you are both sufficers, and aid me for you are both my helpers." And you place your left cheek on the earth and you say a hundred times, "Reach me (to deliver me)" and you repeat it many times, and you say, "(I seek) rescue, rescue, rescue" until the soul is disconnected, then you raise your head and through His generosity, Allah will fulfil your needs, if He wills. We also know, and many Shias admitted that they call their Imams in their graves for help this is a well-known Shia practice. They simply call it tawasul. The 90% of the Muslim Ummah calls it as grave worship, not a tawasul.

Allah, again refuted this type of worship in the Quran: Verily those whom ye call upon besides Allah are SLAVES LIKE UNTO YOU; Call upon them, and let them listen to your prayer, if ye are (indeed) truthful! 7:194 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help 1: 5 So Allah here clearly has emphasized that when it comes to acts of worship that we should call on Him ALONE. Those whom we call for help in our acts of worship besides Allah are but SLAVES of Allah like us. Therefore, the Shias are committing Shirk in their acts of worship by WORSHIPPING THE CREATION, i.e. their Imams, instead of the Creator, Allah. There are so many stuff to be said about the religion of the Shias, but due to limited word count, the two arguments I presented above are sufficient enough to declare those who follow this polytheistic religion to be not only non-Muslims but pure Mushriks. Summary. 1. The Shias are teaching a false foundation (pillar) of Islam : the Prophet didnt ever mention when he was asked about what Islam is, and there is no explicit ayah from the Quran which says that there will be 12 infallible persons after appointed by Allah as Caliphs for the Muslims. 2. Shirk belief of the Shias from their best hadith book Al Kafi, giving divine attributes to their Imams, and the Shia practices and rituals of asking help from the people of the grave instead asking help from Allah alone as taught by Allah in the Quran. Based on those facts, I conclude that Shias are not only pseudo-Muslims, but Mushriks in the literal meaning of the word. May Allah guide them to the true Islam. Ameen! January 1 at 11:13am Like 1 51 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Here are my Five questions for my sunni opponent Abu Jaiyana : 1. After the death of Prophet Muhammad, who among the companions being recognized and designated by Prophet Muhammad(s) as the GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH, to the extent that the Prophet (s) recommended the Ummah to follow THEM so that the Ummah will never be misguided after him? Do you know who are those people designated as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s)? If you know other than the ahl-Bayt please show your proofs they were explicitly designated as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGTH PATH.

2) Do you have proof that Abu Bakar, Umar and Othman were being declared by Prophet Muhammad(s) as the Next Three Masters of the Ummah so that it will be obligatory for us to follow them? Are they belonged to the DIVINELY CHOSEN 12 Caliphs (as declared by Prophet Muhammad(s) to the Ummah] WHO WLL RULE ISLAM right after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) till the Day of Judgment? 3) Were the sunni caliphs like Umar, Abu bakar and Othman were purified by Allah swt and being declared by Prophet Muhammad(s) as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH to be followed by the Ummah after his death? 4) The Practice or Sunnah of Allah as written in the Quran swt is that Allah is the One Who will choose Leaders to function as GUIDANCE OF THE PEOPLE. Sunni aqeda stipulate that you have no guidance after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) because you disregard and did not follow the DESIGNATED GUIDANCE OF THE UMMAH WHICH IS THE AHL-BAYT OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(S). Considering your sunni aqeda that says after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) there were no DESIGNATED GUIDANCE FROM ALLAH swt - then how can you reconcile it in your wild claim that you are now in the right guidance? What is your basis you are true Muslims because you are in the right guidance? 5) The ahl-Bayt were designated by Allah swt and His Prophet(s) AS GUIDANCE TO THE UMMAH. But by having failed to show or not able to prove in your presentation that the followers of the Sunni cult of umar al-khatab have followed the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s), then how are you sure your Islam or aqeda you believed now are the right and complete ones? Who taught you (or from whom did you get your teachings) about Islam, about sunnah and about your aqeda? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Remember this: We are only confident to be true Muslims if we did able to follow Right Guidance after the death of Prophet Muhammad. January 1 at 4:56pm Like 1 50 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana Thank your for your questions. ANSWER TO QUESTION #1 You are contradicting your own words by asking me who among the companions of the Prophet were designated as guidance to the right path, yet in your question #4 you already have said that in the Sunni aqeedah there were no designated as guidance to the right path that is your own fallacy you are contradicting your own words heheheh. Moreover, you committed a strawman fallacy by saying that in Sunni aqeeda, the Prophet didnt designate as guidance to the right path thats 100% ignorance my friend.

Here is what the Prophet have said: After me, cling to my Sunnah and the way of the rightly-guided Caliphs Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith #4590 Who are those rightly guided Caliphs of the Muslims, tell me if you dont know, I will gladly tell you okay? Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 11: Narrated Jubair bin Mutim: A woman came to the Prophet who ordered her to return to him again. She said, "What if I came and did not find you?" as if she wanted to say, "If I found you dead?" The Prophet said, "If you should not find me, GO TO ABU BAKR." Ali bin Abi Talib r.a. himself said that Abubakr and Umar are the best people after the Prophet s.a.w. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20: Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya: I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person. Talqi al Kafi vol.2 p.428: The best among this Ummah after its Prophet is Abubakr, then Umar Said by Ali on a pulpit in Kufa Iraq Sahih Volume 5, Book 57, Number 34: 'Ali invoked Allah's Mercy for 'Umar and said, "O 'Umar! You have not left behind you a person whose deeds I like to imitate and meet Allah with more than I like your deeds. By Allah! I always thought that Allah would keep you with your two companions, for very often I used to hear the Prophet saying, 'I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar went (somewhere); I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar entered (somewhere); and I, Abu Bakr and 'Umar went out."' So Im so sorry for your lack of information about Sunni sources. I will refute your hadith thaqalayn in my rebuttal in case you will appeal to that. Moreover, it is another STRAWMAN fallacy of yours when you say that Sunnis dont follow the purified Ahlul Bayt thats totally misguided assertion. We follow the Ahlul Bayt, but we dont cherry -pick who the members of the Ahlul Bayt are. In the Quran, in 2 ayats, Ahlul Bayt includes primarily the wives, then the children. But hey, Shias abuse and curse the wives of our beloved Prophet especially his most beloved one, the Mother or the Believers Aisha bint Abubakr. The Quran testifies that the wives of the Prophet are Mothers of the Believers, but you Shias abuse and disown them therefore you are not believers because no sane believer would abuse his/her own mother. In summary, your question #1 is based on a STRAWMAN Fallacy, ignorance of the texts, and

ludicrously, self-contradictory statements of yours. January 1 at 9:10pm Like 2 50 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana ANSWER TO QUESTION #2 Thats again another STRAWMAN fallacy no Sahih Sunni sources which says Abubakr, Umar, and Uthman r.anhum are three masters of the Muslims that is your own fabrication my friend no body calls them the three masters, except you. The Caliphate of Abubakr was decided and finalized by the Sahaba after mutual consultations among themselves, they have understood from the words of the Prophet that no one could excel Abubakr, and in one occasion when a woman asked the Prophet where should she go in case she wouldnt find the Prophet (because of death), the Prophet ordered her to go to Abubakr Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 11. You might argue that Ali was not there in the Shura, yes? Had he been there he would surely vote for Abubakr because Ali believed and said that the best people after the Prophet is Abubakr and Umar - Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20, and Talqi al Kafi vol.2 p.428 Interestingly, Ali did give pledge of allegiance to Abubakr. Ali also named one of his sons as Abubakr. So it is clear that the person that you are promoting on, Ali, was actually an avid fan of Abubakr. You just have to read our texts my friend your cherry-picking approach to our texts wont help you at all. What about the sequence of Abubakr, Umar, and Uthman? Since Ali recognized the legitimacy of the Caliphate of Abubakr, then the Caliphss decision must be respected, because it is a commandment of the Prophet. He appointed Umar Al Farook due to the necessity of the situation, and again Ali did agree to it and he loves Umar very much - Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 26. Ali also married his daughter Umm Khultum bint Ali to Umar. More to that he also named one of his sons as Umar Wow! What a close family ties!!! Were Abubakr, Umar, and Uthman qualified? I think so. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 24: Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet once climbed the mountain of Uhud with Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman. The mountain shook with them. The Prophet said (to the mountain), "Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs.

I can give you more prophetic prophesies about Abubakr, Umar, and Uthman if you like just tell me okay? January 1 at 9:10pm Like 2 49 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana ANSWER TO QUESTION #3 Define what is purified first because it is a broad term it could mean many things. If you are referring to Surah 33, then you have to include the wives of the Prophet because they were the main subject of the whole passage. Anyway, if the titles of the three men which are given to them by the Prophet himself doesnt mean purity for you, then I dont know what would. Examples: As-Siddiq for Abubakr which means the quickest to believe. Allah also mentioned him in the Quran as ( Have no fear for Allah is with Us) Surah 9:40 the Al Farook for Umar The distinguisher between right and wrong. The Prophet also said that Satan would run away from Umar What a noble person he is indeed. That is why Ali had said so many lofty things about Umar. Dhun-Noorayn for Uthman which means Owner of the Two Lights, etc. By the way what was the special name given by the Prophet to Ali r.a. which Ali loved very much? ANSWER TO QUESTION #4 I like this question because it is self-defeating If it is indeed the way of Allah to appoint leaders for the people despite clear guidance from the Quran, then the question is for you Where is it in the Quran that Allah said that after the Prophet, there will be 12 infallible individuals and that Muslims must follow them? You are guilty of using the ayat of the Quran out of context Allah did choose Prophets, and Messengers before the finality of the final message. But there is nowhere in the Quran that Allah says that He will appoint 12 infallible leaders after the Prophet had He did so, we surely would have found it. What is more interesting in this false assertion of the Shias is the fact that those whom Allah had appointed (supposedly) did not became leaders of the Ummah. Some of them were prisoners of the Caliphs, and they didnt become Caliphs at all. Do these mean that Allahs will was frustrated, defeated by the people?? This is but ludicrous Shia theory!

Moreover, Al Hassan r.a. who was supposedly appointed by God according to the Shias, he SURRENDERED the Caliphate to Muawiyah for whatever reason for whatever reason, why would a supposed divinely appointed Caliph surrender the Caliphate to an evil person? Furthermore, the supposed first Caliph Ali r.a. did give a pledge of allegiance to Abubakr, and named his son as Abubakr. This Shia theory makes God, and His supposed chosen people very, very bad: 1. Gods will didnt materialize. God willed that His supposed 12 infallible people will be the Caliphs after the Prophet but it didnt happen. His will was frustrated by the will of His creation. Very funny! 2. Those supposed 12 infallible Caliphs appointed by God after the Prophet s.a.w. turned out to be emasculated people; instead of fighting for their divinely given position, they gave pledge of allegiance to their supposed enemies instead, gave up their claims of Caliphate and resorted to taqiya in order to save their skins didnt God know this before He appointed them??? What a BLASPHEMOUS yet ludicrous doctrine indeed! Oh, my basis that I am a true Muslim is irrelevant to topic of this debate. Even if I am not a true Muslim, that would not make Shias true Muslims which is the topic of this debate. Anyway my basis is that I am following a belief system in which its foundation are clearly written in the Quran, and explicitly mentioned by the Prophet in many sahih ahadith, and I dont commit shirk like you do. ANSWER TO QUESTION #5 You really dont understand the topic of this debate, or you simply dont know how to debate, do you? The topic of this debate is NOT about proving that Sunnis are true Muslims, hello!!! The topic of this debate is about proving that Shias are true Muslims, and I am in the negative side, so my task is to provide evidences why Shias are not Muslims, and to refute your claims for the Shias. Had the topic be like this Who are the true Muslims, Sunnis or Shias? then you would be correct of saying that I did not make any argument for the Sunnis but that is not the topic of this debate my friend. It seems that you dont understand the topic of this debate which you yourself h ad suggested I seriously doubt that you could understand English very well, with all due respect to you. January 1 at 9:11pm Like 2 49 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Abu Jaiyana Cross-exam 1. You confirmed the correctness of my argument in my presentation that Imamat in your religion means to believe in the 12 Infallible persons divinely appointed by Allah after the demise of Prophet Muhammad s.aw. I will reiterate my question in my presentation. Give us a single ayah from the Quran without any addition that Allah did appoint your 12 infallible persons after the Prophet s.a.w. It is an USOOL Ud-Deen in your religion, so it must be explicit in the Quran just like Salah, Zakah, Fasting,a nd Hajj. 2. Our belief about the (5) pillars/foundations of Islam even without resorting to any hadith can be explicitly seen in many ayats of the Quran. I can give you those ayats if you need them. Furthermore, the Prophet s.a.w explicitly enumerated those 5 foundations/pillars of Islam in many sahih ahadith. It must be so because it is of prime importance in understanding the religion. Anent to that, my question to you is this: Can you provide any authentic hadith in which the Prophet said that the Usool/foundation of Islam are Tawheed, Nubuwah, et cetera and Imamah? 3. Do you agree with what your prominent scholars say in their books such as: AL HUR AL'AMILY in Alwasa'el , volume 20, page 104 AL TABRASI in Mustadrak Al Wasa'el, volume 3, page 532 SHARAF'DEEN ABDUL HUSSAIN MOSAWY in The book of Al Muraja'aat , Muraj'ah number 110 AYATOLLAH AL KHOMEINI in Al- Hukumah Al-Islamiyyah page 72 that Al Kafi is the best book of HADITH of the Shias because it is the most accurate and its hadiths are authentic (Saheeh)? If your answer is yes, then thank you.If your answer is No, then my Question is what the best of hadith in Shiaism is, and what is your scholarly evidence for it. 4. You quoted the prophecy of the Prophet that there will be 12 Caliphs after him, but he emphasized that they will be from the Quraish which surely include people not from the Ahlul Bayt because the Ahlul Bayt is but a mere fraction of the Quraish Clan not all Quraish are members of the Ahlul Bayt. In connection to that Prophecy, how many of your 12 Imams became Caliphs of the Muslim Ummah? 5. Would you confirm that in Shiaism, Shias ask help from their Imams in their graveyards and you dont consider it as Shirk but merely a kind of tawasul to the pious dead people?

Thank you. January 1 at 9:11pm Like 2 49 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Mohamad Ambulodto Paidumama well said akhi akhi Abu Jaiyana..........................let us see how could this great shia rafida debater countering your few questions....! January 1 at 11:06pm Like 1 48 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali Abu Jaiyana here are my answers to your 5 questions: Answer to Your Question #1: It is obvious that my sunni opponent does not know the doctrine of Imamate and is ignorant of the imamate as mentioned in the Quran. That is expected to a man who did not follow the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). My opponent should know that Leadership In Islam (Imamate) is in the Quran. It is a divine Leadership promised by Allh swt to Ibrahim that his rightoues descendants will be Imams of humanity. No wonder to fulfill that promise it became the sunnah or practice of Allah swt to appoint Leaders or Imams for the guidance of humanity. He sent Prophets and they are automatically Imams/Leaders of the community. Prophet Muhammad(s) is the Last Prophets therefore his 12 successors were just Imams/Caliphs (not both Prophets and Imams/Caliphs). As for the Imamate or divine Leadership of humanity promised by Allah swt to Ibrahim and his descendants, Allah said: 1) Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124: And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers." 2) Holy Quran 32:24 "And We appointed from among them some Imams who guide by our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." 3) Holy Qur'an 21:73. And We made them Imaams (leaders), guiding (mankind) by Our Command, and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds, performing Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and the giving of Zakat and of Us (Alone) they were worshippers. Due to my opponents ignorance of the style, practice, way or sunnah of Allah swt as shown in the

Quran, my opponent is demanding that in order for the Shia of Imamate to be true, the 12 Imams of the true Muslims should be explicitly stated in the quran. He just exposed his ignorance by demanding that. It just shows that he do not know that all genuine aqeda of Islam is just generally mentioned in quran and the details were given only by Prophet Muhammad(s). For example, Allah in the quran told us to pray, yet there is no mention in the quran that prayer is composed of 5 phases having 2, 4, 4, 3 and 4 rakaats. Those details of the prayer were given only by Prophet. Same with other aqeda such as fating, hajj or Imamate. Allah mentioned in the quran He would appoint Imams b ut the detail of that Imamate was given only by Prophet Muhammad . That is why we can read in the hadiths that Islam have 12 Imams/Caliphs until Day of Judgment. Those fake Muslims are expectedly ignorant of the doctrine of Imamate because they reject the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt and follow instead those people who are not our guidance to the right path. No wonder fake Muslims like my opponent are of course misguided people. The reason why sunni cult is so ignorant of the concept Imamate is because they replace it with the fake caliphate founder by umar al-khatab. Sunnis simply disregard the 12 genuine Caliphs from ahlBayt and followed fake caliphs. True Muslims have 12 Caliphs as per the divine Leadership or Imamate of true Islam of Allah and His Prophet (s) while the fake Muslims have only 4 caliphs ( 3 fakes and 1 genuine) as per the fake islam founded by umar al-khatab. Answer to Your Question #2: This question is related to #1, hence my reply to #1 applies in this question #2. Both Shia and Sunni hadiths testifies the doctrine of Imamate. Imamate simply means Leadership In Islam. This Imamate is composed of 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt in the genuine Islam. These 12 Imams are called 12 Caliphs in the hadiths collection of sunni cult and I already quoted them in my first presentation. Again as a gentle reminder, we differ in many aspects of aqeda because we follow the 12 rightly guided caliphs from ahl-Bayt but sunnis followed misguided imams and caliphs who are not from ahlBayt of Prophet Muhammad(s). January 1 at 11:43pm Like 2 48 minutes ago Like Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali This is my rebuttal: Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim I ALREADY STATED IN MY PRESENTATION, PROPHET MUHAMMAD(S) DESIGNATED TWO WEIGHTY THINGS. IF WE WILL FOLLOW THEM BOTH WE WILL NOT BE MISGUIDED AFTER HE WILL LEAVE US ON EARTH THIS ARE (1) THE HOLY QURAN AND (2) HIS PURE AHL-BAYT. We Shia Muslims have 12 Imams/Caliphs/Teachers/Guides from ahl-Bayt that is why we are in the right path, hence we are the true Muslims. My sunni opponent has no Imam/teacher/Guide/Caliph from ahl-Bayt, hence his cult is just a joke. His cults followers are misguided, hence fake muslims. Very sad indeed. Now it is very clear that my opponents arguments and opinions have no value at all because his opinions are all coming from those people who are not authorized teachers of Islam or not designated

as guidance to the right path. He is not a follower of the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt. His hadiths collections are not narrated via the 12 Imams of ahl-Bayt. His arguments then are not worth answering, but for the sake of the readers I will answer them here nothing that I cannot answer them all due to the limit of words imposed by my opponent in this debate. A) My sunni opponent was very surprise I called him sunni of umar al-khatab that is because he is not aware that like umar, he also do not want to follow the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt. He only want the Quran, reject the ahl-Bayt as caliphs because he is also dreaming to be one of the fake caliphs someday. Now I will invite again my opponent to whom he should obey: Prophet Muhammad(s) or umar? 1) Prophet Muhammad(s) said we have to follow Quran and Ahl-Bayt: The holy prophet(s) said: O' people! I leave behind among you two very important things that if you will follow them you will not be misguided after me: the BOOK OF ALLAH, and my "AHLUL BAYT". Sunni Reference: Sahih Tirmidhi, v.2 p. 308; Sahih Muslim vol.5 p. 272 and vol. 7 p.122; Sunan of Abu Dawud,p. 307 and more than 30 other books of hadiths. 2) Umar said we have to follow only the Quran, NO NEED TO FOLLOW AHL -BAYT (hence Abu Jaiyana is a sunni of umar or follower of the sunnah of umar: Ibn 'Abbas reports: When Allah's Apostle was on his death -bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not be misguided after me." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarreled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise." Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol7:Book 70: Hadith #573

My opponents false argument that he is in the right path or a true Muslim is because the followers of his cult are in majority. He has a childish dream that if a cult has many followers then it is the truth as if numbers can make false a truth. But Allah in the quran knew that majority of people are misguided and only few are in the right path. My opponent has the face to brag that his cult is the right path because they are many or in majority, but Allah swt will expose my sunni opponent as just liar: 1) And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie. (Quran 6:116)

2) Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most (i.e. majority) of them grateful [to You]." (Quran 7:17) The true Muslims are few or in minority because only few are thankful of the guidance of Allah swt: 1) And few (i.e. minority) of My servants are grateful. (Quran 34:13) 2) "We shall reward those who are grateful" (Quran 3:145) Yesterday at 1:12am Like 1 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali C) My opponent raised the issue of Imamate because he is ignorant of it. His ignorance is a result of not following the guidance of the ummah the 12 ahl-Bayt Imams. Allah in the Quran had declared He will appoint Imams. But my opponent wants an ayat from quran stating there are 12 Imams of Islam. That request had expose him as ignorant . He does not know that Allah swt only give general statements and only Prophet Muhammad(s) will give the details. All the details of the aqeda of Islam like tawheed, prayer, fasting, hajj, imamate, etc. are not mentioned in the Quran but only given by Prophet Muhammad(s). As for the Prayer, he said prayers are 5; as for the Imamate, he said Islam has 12 Imams, as for the fasting, he said it should be 30 days, etc. If my opponent can give one ayat from quran that prayers are 5 only, that will be the time I will give him an ayat that imams are 12 only. Lols. D) My opponent also brags his SUNNI hadiths as genuine. But those hadiths had reached to them not via the 12 Imams of ahl-Bayt. His hadiths are all narrated from non-ahl-Bayt originators hence the originators of his hadiths are not authorized by Prophet Muhammad(s) as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH. At best sunni hadiths in my own estimation only composed of 10% true and being used by Shias as our evidence also, 30% mixture of truth and falsehood( Shias used the truth as evidence and reject the false) and 60% pure false (Shias will never used it as evidence). In this debate, my opponent used 60% false hadiths and I am using here the 10% truth from sunni hadiths. The sunni hadiths stating that their first 3 fake caliphs are better than Imam Ali(a) are obviously a false or fabricated hadith. Sunni caliphs were chosen by men but Shia Caliphs were chosen by Allah swt because only Allah choose Leaders for Islam. Example how Allah swt chose Moses and his successor Aaron: (Moses said: "O Allah) assign me a vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Aaron (Haroon) ...,(Allah) said: "We granted your requests, O Moses.(Quran 20:29-36). Allah, Exalted, also said: "Surely We gave the book to Moses and assigned his brother Aaron as his vizier.(Quran 25:35). Allah also said: "... And Moses said unto his brother Aaron: Take my place among th e people.(Quran 7:142).

Base from the Quranic concept of Musa and Aaron were chosen by Allah swt, we know for sure that Imam Ali(a) was chosen by Allah THas ROUGH Prophet Muhammad(s) as the first Imam/Calip/Master of the ummah: The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me" Sunni References: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Traditions 5.56, 5.700 Sahih Muslim, Arabic, v4, pp 1870-71 Yesterday at 1:15am Like 1 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali E) My opponent also had ridiculously insisting that abu bakar was hinted to be first caliph because Prophet Muhammad(s) had said to a woman that if he is not around, then look for abu bakar. Just only 1 woman being hinted or informed? What kind of hint or what kind appointment is that? If that hadith is true it obviously about his wife aisha. If a woman looking for aisha he can approach Prophet Muhammad(s) or her father abu bakar if he is not arround. That hadith is not related to leadership of Islam. Only 1 woman and my opponent Abu Jaiyana knew the hint but the rest of the sahabas are not aware of that hint. If Prophet Muhammad(s) want to appoint his successor, he would not hint it to a single woman but he must announce it in public in front of all the sahabas like what he did in Ghadir Khum declaring Imam Ali(a) as THE NEXT MASTER OF THE UMMAH. Prophet Muhammad(s) announced his successor in ghadir khum the following: 1) The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my AhlulBayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)." Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?People cried and answered: "Yes, O Messenger of God.Then Prophet (S) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him." Sunni references: Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63 Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43 Khasais, by al-Nisai, pp 4,21 al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371 Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330 Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, pp 154,397 2) Prophet Muhammad (s) said: "Ali is from me and I am from Ali and he is the guardian of every believer after me"

Sunni references: Sunan Tirmidhi, volume 2, page 298. Mustadrak al-Hakim, volume 3, page 111. Sawaiq al-Muhriqa, page 122, published in Egypt . 3) "It has been revealed to me that `Ali has three exclusive merits: that he is the chief of the Muslims, the Imam of the righteous, and the leader of those whose foreheads radiate with the mark of faith." Sunni references: Mustadrak al-Hakim page 138, Vol. 3. Kanz al Ummal, page 157, Vol. 6, is hadith 2628. Also quoted by al-Barudi, Ibn Qani`, Abu Na`im, and al-Bazzar. 4) "Whoever obeys 'Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys 'Ali disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah" Sunni references: Kanz ul Ummal, hadith numbers 32973-32976, Mustadrak al Hakim Volume 3 page 123, Riyadh ul Nadira Volume 3 page 110 F) My opponent quotes the hadith having Prophet Muhammad(s) recommending to follow the his sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs for our guidance to the right path. The sad fact is that my opponent does not know who are these rightly guided caliphs. He is imagining only 4 caliphs (3 fakes and 1 genuine). But the only people designated by Prophet Muhammad(s) as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH are only his ahl-Bayt. Therefore these rightly guided caliphs to be followed for our guidance are no other than the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s). These 12 Imams are the genuine rightly guided Caliphs of Islam. They are the Caliphs of the true Muslims of no other than the Shia of Prophet Muhammad(s) and his ahl-Bayt. G) My opponent also attacked the true Muslims by barking to us using his ignorance and misunderstanding about the knowledge of Prophet Muhammad(s) and the 12 Imams of the alGhayb/unseen. He said true Muslims are shirk because they believed Prophet Muhammad(s) and the 12 Imams have knowledge of the unseen because he said only Allah knew the unseen. The ignorance of my opponent hinders him to understand the Quran stating that only Allah knows the unseen but He also share some knowledge of the unseen to his righteous servants (i.e. Prophet Muhammad and 12 Imams) to whom He wills. Allah swt said: "Who can intercede with Him except the cases He permits? He knows what is in front of them (the Prophet and the Imams) and what is behind them, and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except Whom He will.(Quran 2:255) For sure Allah swt had shared His knowledge of the unseen to His Messenger Prophet Muhammad(s) as stated in the Quran: 1) He (i.e. Allah swt) possesses the Ghayb and He does not discloses His Ghayb to anyone except to such a Messenger(i.e. Prophet Muhammad) as He is well-pleased with." (Quran 72:26-27).

2) "And he (Muhammad) is not niggardly the Knowledge of the Unseen.(Quran 81:24). As expected Prophet Muhammad(s) will these knowledge of the Ghayb/unseen to his ahl-Bay - the first of whom is Imam Ali(a), then he passed it to his son Imam Hassan(a) down to the 12th Imam Mahdi(a). By that, the 12 Imams from ahl-Bayt had inherited the knowledge of Prophet Muhammad(s). That is why the first Imam Ali(a) was known as the gate of knowledge. The rest of the 12 Imams would certainly inherit those prophetic knowledge whose source is Allah swt. As to the fact that the first Imam Ali(a) inherit the God-given knowledge, Prophet Muhammad(s) said: Ali(a) said: The Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, said: I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate. (see hadith in al-Tirmidhi and al-Hakim on the authority of Ali ) Yesterday at 1:22am Like 1 Abu Jaiyana Rebuttal I begin my rebuttal by mentioning the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Folks, our Shia friend Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali, did exactly what I said in my presentation. First, he couldnt show a single verse from the Quran where it says that after the Prophet s.a.w. there will be 12 infallible persons that Muslims must obey and follow. THEREFORE, my argument is true that their so-called USOOL-Ud-Deen i.e. foundation of the religion is false because it is nowhere mentioned in the Quran. The mandates about Salah, Zakah, Fasting and Hajj are so explicit in the Quran WHY CANT WE FIND A SINGLE AYAH ABOUT A COMMANDMENT OF ALLAH TO FOLLOW 12 INFALLIBLE PERSONS AFTER THE PROPHET S.A.W.? Had the Shias included JIHAD, or MARRIAGE instead of Imamah, it would have been very acceptable because we can find explicit verses in the Quran in which Allah mandated the Muslims to do but Imamah, is nowhere in the Quran. Second, I provided at least two sahih references wherein the Prophet s.a.w. explicitly enumerated the Usool-Ud-Deen (pillars of Islam) which are the Shahadatayn, Eshtablishing the Prayer, Giving the Zakah, Performing Hajj, and Fasting during Ramadhan I asked my opponent to show a single hadith in which the Prophet s.a.w. included Imamah in the Usool -Ud-Deen or pillars of Islam MY OPPONENT PROVIDED NOTHING!!! THEREFORE, my argument is true that the Shia Imamah is a false pillar of Islam. It is an INVENTION, a LIE, a FALSE BELIEF that the Shias wanted to introduce to Islam. 14 hours ago Like Abu Jaiyana What was the fallacy did he make? He showed ayats from the Quran in which Allah informed us that He made Prophet Ibrahim a.s. a

leader for the people and so were his children. From that ayah, my opponent alluded that Allah must have appointed their 12 Imams after the Prophet s.a.w. Folks, anyone who has a minute knowledge about argumentation could easily see the fallacy of the argument. It is a classic example of a logical fallacy called NON SEQUITUR. Non Sequitur fallacy means the conclusion does not logically follow the previous statement. Have you seen the BIG, BIG JUMP from Allahs making of Prophet Ibrahim and his children as leaders of the people to following 12 infallible persons after the last Prophet s.a.w? Folks, the promise of Allah to Prophet Ibrahim a.s. that his children would also become leaders was/has already been fulfilled by Allah all Prophets who came after Prophet Ibrahim were all Ibrahims children, that is why he is called the father of faith i.e. of the three Abrahamic faiths, Juadaism, Christianity, and Islam. The verse has nothing to do whatsoever about Allah mandating the Muslims to follow 12 infallible people after Prophet Muhammad who is the last and final prophet of the children of Ibrahim. Surah Al Ankabt:27 clearly states And we ordained amongst his progeny PROPHETHOOD AND REVELATION. So the leadership of Prophet Ibrahim means leadership in Prophethood; he is the leaders of the PROPHETS who came after him. The verse doesnt say in any way shape or form that Allah would appoint 12 infallible people after the Last Prophet. Therefore, appealing to those verses for the doctrine of Imamah is billions of miles away from being true. 14 hours ago Like Abu Jaiyana What is self-contradictory in his argument? My opponent knows that the verse he showed was extremely vague as proof for their Imamah, so he admitted very sadly that a hadith is necessary for that verse to be understood clearly, and he went on quoting some hadiths from the Sunni sources which he himself criticized to be Umayyad fabrications. So he is using fabricated hadiths in order to clarify the verse which he knows to be an extremely vague evidence for their Imamah doctrine. Point #1 Had the ayah he used to support their Imamah doctrine explicit, like the ayats for Salah, Zakah, Fasting, and Hajj, it would not need any hadith for further clarification. That only simply means that my opponent is boldly, but shyly telling us that the ayah he put forward as proof for their Imamah is vague. Folks, ask yourselves Is it logical that Allah intended to make one of the pillars of His religion unclear in His Quran? I dont think so!

Point #2 Fallacy of convenience, and cherry picking fallacy using other sources when convenient, pick what is convenient, but strongly reject the same when it is inconvenient. Sunni hadiths are fabricated, but you know what, they are proof for our Imamah doctrine Duh! You cant have your cake and eat it folks if you have eaten your cake, then you dont have the cake anymore. Point #3 Ignorance about usool hadith folks, we dont just say such and such hadith is false or weak simply because we say so. You have to tackle the isnad of the hadith, and most importantly, you have to quote reputable hadith scholars words about the reliability of the hadith becau se they were the authority in the field of hadith studies. My opponent is acting like a Filipino corn farmer talking about which sky scraper of New York is good, and bad who in the earth with sound mind would take his words as authoritative??? Point #4 the misused hadith thaqalayn Shias always fall themselves in a big trap by using this hadith for their Imamah. The always commit a fallacy called CONTEXTOMY using the meaning of the hadith OUT OF CONTEXT due to ignorance about the historical background of the hadith. Shias will not dare to explain when, where, and why the Prophet said it and what does it means I wanted to discuss this hadith in details, but due to limited word count, will just give you some important points the fallacies that the Shias do with the hadith: 1 The context of the hadith it never talks about 12 infallible people after the Prophet 2 Chopping the texts of the hadith that hadith talks about following the Quran which has guidance and light, and the reminder of the Prophet for the Muslims in their attitude towards the family of the Prophet s.a.w. The Sunnis respected all the members of the Ahlul Bayt, but the Shias hate many of them. 3 Fallacy of cherry-picking the hadith talks about the Ahlul Bayt (family of the Prophet) which includes primarily the wives of the Prophet, yet the Shias not only reject the wives of the Prophet but defame and curse them. For the Shias, Ahlul Bayt means selected members only, and so they named people which are never mentioned in the hadith, yet those who are inherently included such as the wives are excluded defamed and cursed by the Shias. 14 hours ago Like Abu Jaiyana The hadith about the 12 Caliphs from the Quraish. This is another old Shia claim about their Imamah. Since the prophet s.a.w said that there will be 12 caliphs after him, then it must be our 12 Imams. Folks, what the hadith clearly said is that those 12 Caliphs would be from the Quraish. Quraish is a very big clan, and the ruling clan of Makkah back then. Had the Prophet meant that the 12 Caliphs would only come from the Ahlul Bayt, he would have said so. Do the Shias suggesting that the Prophet was so shy to tell the people that the 12 Caliphs would come from the Ahlul Bayt only, so he said Quraish instead of Ahlul Bayt?

Of the 12 Imams of the Shias, only two became Caliphs the rest of them were not Caliphs therefore, the Prophecy about the 12 Caliphs doesnt fit on them. The Shia argument that though most of their Imams didnt become Caliphs but Shias still consider them as leaders/Caliphs/Imams That is very ludicrous argument Ladies and Gents, because they are now changing the meaning of the word Caliphs. And that is also accusing the Prophet s.a.w with poor Arabic vocabulary Naudhubillah! Moreover, if the Shia imams can still be considered Caliphs even if they did not actually becomes Caliphs of the Muslims, then why fight for it? So the appeal of the Shias about the Prophecy of the 12 Caliphs is more to a problem for them than an evidence for their claim. The Prophet was fully aware that the Caliph who would succeed him would not be from the Ahlul Bayt. Here are the proof: Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 661, and Sunan Abu Dawood Book 020, Number 4543 The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. THERE WILL BE NO PROPHET AFTER ME, BUT THERE WILL BE CALIPHS WHO WILL INCREASE IN NUMBER." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "OBEY THE ONE WHO WILL BE GIVEN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE FIRST. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship." So it is clear that the Prophet ordered the Muslims to OBEY THE ONE WHO WILL BE GIVEN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE FIRST and who was that Caliph who was given the Pledge of Allegiance first? It was no other than ABUBAKR. 14 hours ago Like 1 Abu Jaiyana In Shia book, Ali also recognized the legitimacy of the first 3 Caliphs: Verily, the people who gave allegiance to ABU BAKR, UMAR AND UTHMAN, have GIVEN ALLEGIANCE TO ME BASED ON THE SAME PRINCIPLES AS THE ALLEGIANCE TO THEM. So anyone who was presenthas no right to go against his pledge of allegiance, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. AND VERILY SHURA (CONSULTATION) IS ONLY THE RIGHT OF THE MUHAJIRS AND THE ANSAR(Nahjul-Balaghah, Letter #6) What could be clearer than that for the Shias? What about the facts that Ali gave baiah to Abubakr, he named one of his sons as Aubakr, he married his doughter Umm Khultum to Umar, named one of his sons as Umar, and Uthman. What about the historical fact that Al Hassan gave up his divine appointment to Muawiyah? No response at all.

So what about the issue on the reliable books of hadiths of the Shia? My opponent clearly rejects what their prominent scholars said about their AL Kafi. Whom are we consider as authority in Shiaism, the consensus of Shia scholars, or the words of Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali? What about the issue of giving divine attributes to their Imams this was not refuted in any shape or form. This is a blatant shirk in Shiaism it is much severe that inventing the doctrine of Imamah. 14 hours ago Like 3 Abu Jaiyana Grave Worships of the Shias Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim) May Allah CURSE the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets. - Sahih Bukhari If any religious man dies amongst those people they would build a place of wors hip at his grave and make these pictures in it. They will be the WORST CREATURES in the sight of Allah on the Day of Resurrection. Sahih Bukhari All the above-prohibitions of the prophet s.a.w. are what the Shias are doing since time immemorial. Tawasul is done by asking help to Allah by virtue of the status or piety of a person that was what Abdullah ibn Abbas did, and so was Umar with Al Abbas. The Shias are not asking help from Allah, but they are asking from the people of the grave to help them. See the example in my presentation. Shias are not only non-Muslims but Mushriks. Thank you. 14 hours ago Like 1 Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali My Conclusion Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim A) Shias are true Muslims Because we Follow The Officially Designated GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH THE 12 IMAMS FROM AHL-BAYT To those who are wise readers in this debate, they would realized quickly that my opponent is already a defeated debater even our debate has not yet started because he refuse to accept the fair topic I suggested to him: Who are true Muslims Shias or Sunni?. He rather choice the one-sided topic : Are Shias true Muslims which renders me a default winner because in this topic I have the opportunity to prove that Shias are true Muslims and reveal why we are true Muslims. But my opponent has no opportunity to prove if he is a true Muslim nor to reveal why he is a true Muslim. As

a result my opponent is just punching on the air throughout this debate and all his arguments are useless as it can be dismissed as just his own inventions or just coming from fake, not authorized, and misguided teachers/imams. Though he has always the opportunity to prove his authority and reveal who taught him Islamic doctrines yet he never do it. Of course he can never do it or it is useless to do it because his teachers/imams are not authorized teachers/imams. His teachers or imams are not designated by Prophet Muhammad(s) as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH. If his teachers/Imams are not designated as GUIDANCE TO THE RIGHT PATH, then my opponent is just barking on a tree whose opinions in this debate has no value. All his arguments can be summed up in this way: just all trashes/garbage because they are all from the opinions/point of view of the misguided and not authorized teachers/imams. Sunnis simply have no teachers/Imams from ahl-Bayt. That is how my sunni opponent already a defeated debater even the debate has not yet started. It just makes me smile hahaha. The least we can say to my opponent is that he is not a Shia of Prophet Muhammad(s) and his AhlBayt but he is a sunni of umar al-khatab. The reason why he is a sunni of umar is because of his choice in following umar rejecting the ahl-Bayt. Here again are the choices: 1) The holy prophet said WE HAVE TO FOLLOW QURAN AND HIS AHL -BAYT: Prophet Muhammad(s) said: O' people! I leave behind among you two very important things that if you will follow them you will not be misguided after me: the BOOK OF ALLAH, and my "AHLUL BAYT". Sunni Reference: Sahih Tirmidhi, v.2 p. 308; Sahih Muslim vol.5 p. 272 and vol. 7 p.122; Sunan of Abu Dawud,p. 307 and more than 30 other books of hadiths. 2) Umar said QURAN IS ENOUGH (NO NEED AHL-BAYT): Ibn 'Abbas reports: When Allah's Apostle was on his death -bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not be misguided after me." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarreled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise." Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol7:Book 70: Hadith #573

For the Imamate, of course Allah swt Had promise He would appoint Imams. This includes Imams from the Family of Ibrahim and Imams from Family of Prophet Muhammad(s).That is why we have salawat sending blessings to the Family of Ibrahim and Family of Prophet Muhammad(s). All Prophets from Ibrahim ended in Prophet Muhammad(s) and the were automatically also Imams or Leaders of their ummah. After the prophethood is the Imamate. The 12 genuine successor of the Last Prophet

Muhammad(s) are only Imams (they are not prophets). My challenge to my opponent still remains unanswered. I said he should give me 1 ayat from Quran that menti ons Salat is 5 so that I will give him ayat that Imamate or Leadership in the ummah of Prophet Muhammad(s) is having 12 Imams/Caliphs. He cannot give, so I will not give also. Unfortunately, my opponent cannot understand the verse stating Allah swt will appoint Imams. It is vogue for him. Audhubillah. He just exposed himself as kafir or unbeliever who do not believe Allah and His Messenger. My opponent will not believ Allah can still choose Imams for the ummah of His Messenger (s). Allah says He will appoint Imams/Caliphs and Prophet Muhammad(s) said these Imams/Caliphs are 12 all from his ahl-Bayt. But sunni of umar do not want to mention ahl-Bayt so they replace the word ahl-Bayt with the word quraish. But base from the fact that Prophet Muhammad(s) is from quraish, so his ahl-Bayt is from Quraish as well. So same story, we have 12 Caliphs from ahl-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad(s) from clan of Quraish. That is very expected because these 12 Caliphs were appointed as Guidance of the Ummah and only AHL-BAYT ARE DESIGNATED GUIDANCE of the ummah. 11 hours ago Like Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali C) My opponent seems confused between the absolute attributes of Allah swt and the relative attributes of human being. If the Prophets and 12 Imams have knowledge of the unseen is does not mean they usurped the attributes of Allah. They simply have knowledge of the unseen because they were taught by Allah swt . Same with other attributes we shared from Allah swt . For example Allah is Merciful but we too as human being felt mercy or also merciful. Do we make ourselves gods because only Allah is merciful yet human can have mercy as well. Wahabis cannot understand the huge difference between absolute attributes of Allah and the relative attributes of human being because they have small brain or simply no brain at all. D) My argument is clear about the 12 Caliphs of Islam who will rule until Day of Judgment. Of all the people existed in this planet since the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) , only Shias of ahl-Bayt or True Muslims have a complete 12 Caliphs. Those who have no 12 Caliphs are misguided people. Majority of them have only 4 caliphs, some 5, some 7, some more than 12 caliphs. My opponent toke an issue about the relationship between ahl-Bayt and the 12 Caliphs. Unless you believe that Allah swt selected these 12 Caliphs as guidance of the ummah you will fail to conclude that these 12 caliphs are from ahl-Bayt . But if you believe these 12 Caliphs are our guidance after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s) we can easily conclude that these 12 caliphs are from ahl-Bayt because only ahl-Bayt being designated as our guidance to the right path. Of course sunni hadiths are vogue in this issue because they hide the truth but in Shia Islam it is very straightforward that the 12 Caliphs are from ahl-Bayt. E) Allah had chosen 12 Caliphs for the guidance of the ummah after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). Allah swt choose them through Prophet Muhammad(s) by announcing to the people that Islam has 12 Caliphs until Day of Judgment. Later, umar will invent a bidaah caliphate choosing abu bakar as the

first fake caliph and in turn, abu bakar chose umar as fake caliph so on and so forth. Of course, the genuine 12 caliphs from Allah will still remain Caliphs or Imams despite majority of the people did not honor them as Caliphs. Same with Prophethood, they will remain prophets regardless whether the majority of the people will honor them as Prophets or not. There are only few people who regarded the 12 Imams as genuine 12 Caliphs. That is not surprising because Allah said in the quran only few are grateful and majority of people prefers misguidance. My opponent mentioned a hadith having Prophet Muhammad(s) said "OBEY THE ONE WHO WILL BE GIVEN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE FIRST. Unfortunately he is thinking it was abu bakar yet this man was only appointed first fake caliph by umar in saqifa after the death of Prophet Muhammad(s). My opponent is not aware that Imam Ali(a) was already appointed Master of the Ummah/Mawla/Leader in Ghadeer Khum at the time Prophet Muhammad(s) still alive. So the first being given the pledge of allegiance was Imam Ali(a). Of course he will remain the genuine first caliph despite majority of sahabas broke their pledge after the death of Rasul(s) in exchange of worldly power. F) My opponent is always in a state of confusion due to his being misguided person. He is thinking that visiting a grave means we worship those who are in the grave. Far from it as it all depends upon the intentions. House is the place for the physical alive person and grave is the place of the alive soul. If we visit the alive person in his house is it equal to worshiping that person? If we visit the alive soul in his grave do we worship that person? What kind of logic is that Abu Jaiyana? You must know that visiting a friend in his house is same as visiting him in his grave knowing his soul is alive forever. Visiting is not the same is worshipping. Your fake hadiths prohibiting visit to the graves is against the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad(s) who also visited the graves near Medina. We the true Muslims knew that Prophet Muhammad(s) and 12 Imams(a) can intercede us upon the permission of Allah swt. There is no wrong asking their intercession when we visit in their graves. We believe their souls still alive so we visit them as an alive souls not dead or useless souls as per misguided aqeda of wahabism. I may already exceeded the word limit in this debate. So I must stop here. Thank you. 11 hours ago Like Abu Jaiyana I will start my conclusion for this debate by quoting the verse of the Quran which says Truth has come and falsehood perishes for falsehood is by its nature bound to perish Peace be unto those who follow the right guidance. Folks, I thought that my opponent in this debate is a smart guy that he knows and understand how to debate unfortunately my presumption was wrong. My opponent is deceiving his own self by thinking that since the topic of this debate is to prove that Shias are true Muslims, then he is automatically the winner since he is in the affirmative side as he said in his conclusion that is a big, big shame to say ladies and gents. You could not have a debate in which the debaters are both on the same side; there must be opposing sides in a debate in order to have a discussion, and the winner of the debate is judge based

in the strength, soundness, consistent evidences, cogency, and logic of the argument presented by both sides. Therefore, it is based on clear ignorance about debates to say that the affirmative side is the default winner. Moreover, in debate principle, there is such thing as ONUS PROBANDI or Burden of Proof. The burden of proof is always upon those who make the claim, not the other way around. The claim would remain as a claim unless it is proven to be true. In this debate, the one who makes the claim that Shias are true Muslims, therefore the burden of proof is upon him, not upon me. So I dont have to discuss about the Sunni beliefs because thats not the topic of this debate. In other words, Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali is the default LOSER in this debate until he has successfully proven his claim to be true. So that clear up the horrible insinuation of Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali that he is the winner of this debate because I didnt talked about Sunni beliefs I call that gross ignorance about debate principles it is actually a hallucination. He thought that what he said about himself would give him due credit, but as all of us have seen, he is actually making a lump sum discredit for his own self, thus totally destroying his personal reputation. 10 minutes ago Like Abu Jaiyana I argued that Shias are not true Muslims because: # 1 SHIAISM TEACHES A FALSE FOUNDATION OF ISLAM i.e. Imamat that is, there is nowhere in the Quran which says that Allah had appointed 12 infallible persons after the Prophet s.a.w. This particular argument of mine is confirmed by my opponent very clearly when I asked him to produce such statement from the Quran and he gave NOTHING. Had the Shia made Marriage as foundation of their religion instead of Imamah, it would have been easy for them to find ayat in the Quran to support it such as: Surah Nisaa 4:3: Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one Or Jihad instead of Imamah such as Surah 9:5-6: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find themand if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. You see those are explicit ayat which no one could dispute that it is a commandment for Jihad. But when it comes to an ayah which says that after the Prophet, Allah have appointed 12 infallible people to be the Caliphs of the Muslims there is NONE WHATSOEVER!

Therefore it is 100% not from the Quran! 10 minutes ago Like Abu Jaiyana I also argued that Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. did taught his companions that the foundations/pillars the religion of Al Islam are the two testimonies of faith, Salah, Zakah, Fasting, and Hajj, but he never said anything about Imamah being one of the foundations of the religion (Usoolud-Deen) which the shias are promoting. From that fact, I asked my opponent to provide a single hadith in which the Prophet said that Imamah is one of the foundations/pillars of Islam again, my opponent showed NOTHING! So what does this NOTHINGNESS of Imamah in the Quran and in words of the Prophet tell us??? It simply tells us that this doctrine is an INVENTED DOCTRINE BY THE SHIAS, especially those who follow the theology of IBN SABAA, the hypocrite and a polytheist Jew he was the first man to attribute divinity to Ali r.a. and speak ill of Abubakr and Umar r.a. See Shia books Rijaal Kashee page 107 No. 172, Rijaal Kashee pages 108-109, and Firaq As-Shia of Naubakhtee page 22. 9 minutes ago Like Abu Jaiyana #2 Shiaism teaches and practices polytheism (Shirk) therefore they are Mushriks (polytheists), they are not Muslims because Shirk is the antithesis of Tawheed. I quoted the best Shia hadith book Al Fafi as textual evidence that Shias are commiting Shirk by giving divine attributes to their Imams such as: The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them. Al -Kafi, p. 260 My opponent initially rejected it because he understood that it is clear shikr, but my opponent Ahmed Zulfiqar Ali has no choice but give up his words, and agree with their prominent scholars. He changed his argument by saying that those texts simply means relative attributes of human beings; Folks, having knowledge about past, present, and future and nothing is concealed from them, i.e. AllKnowing, is an absolute attribute Al Aleem. Only God knows everything and nothing is concealed from God therefore to give this attribute to anyone other than God is to make partners with God, and it is 100% shirk. Therefore the Shias are mushriks (polytheists) i.e. people who do shirk. There is no escape for my opponent on that point; it is crystal clear from their own text. 9 minutes ago Like

Abu Jaiyana The Shias are also grave worshippers they ask help from the people of the grave despite the clear prohibition of the Prophet s.a.w. as shown in many authentic hadiths such as the one I quoted in the last part of my rebuttal. My opponent argued that those people are not dead so our question is WHY DID YOU BURY THEM??? If those people in the graves are not dead, then you have committed a crime of burying people who are alive. He also argued that they are not dead because somehow their souls doesnt cease to exist but if that argument is true, then there is no such thing as dead people because both the righteous and the evil people, their souls doesnt cease to exist. Moreover, the Shias are, in effect refuting the Prophet s.a.w. they are actually saying/arguing that the Prophet was wrong about his prohibition on asking help from the people of the grave because they are not really dead people, they could help those who ask help from them. You see now folks, the Shias will be debating the Prophet on the Day of Judgment for making erroneous judgment about asking help from the people of the graves, because the prophet said NO, while the Shias said YES! That would be a great debate to watch! 9 minutes ago Like Abu Jaiyana My opponent argued that they are not asking help from the dead, they are merely asking them to speak to Allah for them thats a lie, a taqiya. Then you place your right cheek on the earth and you say a hundred times in prostration, "O Muhammad, O Alee, O Alee, O Muhammad, suffice me (in my needs) for you are both sufficers, and aid me for you are both my helpers." And you place your left cheek on the earth and you say a hundred times, "Reach me (to deliver me)" and you repeat it many times, and you say, "(I seek) rescue, rescue, rescue" Mustadrak al-Wasaa'il of al-Tabrasi, page 310 Does that sound asking Allah for help or asking other than Allah for help??? 8 minutes ago Like Abu Jaiyana The Shias strong insistence that Allah must have appointed their 12 Imams as Caliphs after the Prophet is remains FUTILE because they failed to show a single ayah from the Quran which says so. The Shias passionate hatred for Abubakr and Umar turns to be a very strong proof that they were Shias of Ibn Sabaa and not Shias of Ali, because Ali did love and supported the Caliphates of Abubakr and Umar while Ibn Sabaa said the opposite.

Ali did intermarriage with Umar, and praise the greatness of Abubakr and Umar, while Iban Sabaa hated both. So it is clear that Shias are more of following Ibn Sabaa rather than Ali r.a. These Shias suggest that Allah did appoint their 12 Imams to be the C aliphs but Allahs will was frustrated/failed to materialize. May Allah guide them to the true Islam. Thank you. 8 minutes ago Like