Episode 43 - Speculative, but Foundational Participants: Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host Andreas M.

. Antonopoulos (AA) Co-host Stephanie Murphy (SM) Co-host Michael Hill (MH) - LMB Holdings Danny Brewster (DB) - LMB Holdings Push Button Bitcoin (Washing Machines & Liquid Dispensers) 0:19 Intro ABL: Hi, and welcome to Episode 43 of Lets Talk Bitcoin, a twice-weekly show about the ideas, people and projects building the new digital economy and the future of money. Visit us at letstalkbitcoin.com for our daily guest blog, all our past episodes and of course, tipping options. My name is Adam B. Levine and todays show is Speculative, but Foundational. Bitcoin is a technology so new that many basic core elements that are required for common use, simply dont exist; and we start the show talking about washing machines, parking meters and Andy Schroeders liquid dispensing project. Then I catch up with Michael Hill and Danny Brewster, on their exciting Bitcoin bank and payment card project in Cyprus, and how they wanna turn Cyprus into a bright beacon of Bitcoin opportunity. Turning to more serious topics and following a recent scandal at TechCrunch Disrupt, Im joined by Andreas and Stephany to discuss discrimination in male dominated industries. Andreas makes a pledge not to attend conferences lacking policies to deal with such things, and we finish up with a talk about hiring practices. Thanks to those you who have purchased video conference passes, were very excited to provide this service and have another way to raise the funds to power the show. If you havent already pre-ordered your pass in bitcoins, visit bitcoinvideopass.com and see how easy buying in bitcoin can be. Early bird prices end soon! Thanks for listening, and enjoy the show. 1:42 ABL: We spent a lot of time talking about how Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in a really nascent stage, really really early in the lifecycle, and so a lot of things you would expect to exist, in fact dont, because nobodys bothered to make them yet. So, in the last couple of weeks Ive gotten to know a few different guys and their projects and I wanted to take the opportunity to sorta, to sorta start talking about this. The topic broadly Im calling Push Button Bitcoin. Its these devices providing interface between real world stuff and Bitcoin, and cryptocurrency broadly speaking. So, there are a couple projects. The first one is Morgan Rockwell out of, I think hes in Vancouver. Hes working on a bitcoin washing machine, but its not just about a washing machine. Essentially what hes designed, again, its this interface that, essentially, you send bitcoin to; it has a little screen, it has an address that it gives you and it tells you how much to send and then, once that amount has been received, its appropriate for whatever its trying to do; then it presses a button. And it can press a button for a set length of time if theres something that only operates while its being you know, pressed or; it can basically activate things. So, he envisions using it in laundrymats where; there are no, there are no dollars, there is no change that needs to have armored cars come pick it up. Instead you just go to the laundrymat, you send you know, your fraction of a bitcoin to it and there you go, it turns on and, and youve got your solution there. 2:59

AA: Quick explanation because as a non-american I have to tell you a laundromat is a very american thing. 3:04 ABL: Oh ! 3:05 AA: A laundrymat is a commercial establishment full of washing machines and dryers, where you can go if you dont have one in your home, and you can deposit money to wash and dry your clothes. Doesnt exist everywhere, just letting you know. 3:16 ABL: I actually had no idea. I have never used a laundromat but I did not know they were a US phenomenon. Umm so.. 3:21 SM: I havent either but I have used in apartment complex sometimes theyll have a pay machine thats like, just for the building. 3:28 AA: Yes, in other places, specially in Europe at least, it was only in student dorms that you would find that kind of thing. But yeh still, even in student dorms I think thats a great application for vending machines, and student services and.. laundry. 3:40 SM: Getting those rolls of quarters was the worst.. (laughs) 3:43 AA: Exactly ! 3:45 ABL: Well, and its also bad for the business owner too. Because then they have to take all those rolls of quarters that people have spent, with them, and somehow get them to a bank, which means that you can be robbed; and I mean again, there are like all of these things that add to the cost of doing business that if you dont have tangible money that actually can be stolen from your establishment, it sorta fixes that problem. And, to a lesser extent this is also true of one of the other areas that Morgans looking out with this project: parking meters, where you know, you park and then again, I.. I think this not just US, so correct me if Im wrong here; you put in a couple of coins into the parking meter and then you have a set amount of time. And again, the problem is, is that these machines can break and they have mechanisms you know, where things can get stuck, and they can be stolen you know, cause they can just be cut off and, you can take the whole thing with you. But, with Bitcoin again, theres nothing to take so... there are advantages there. 4:32 AA: And all of these are, examples of payment systems that primarily operate with coins, so small denomination payments. If they do operate with notes, thats relatively rare; and most of these dont have credit card machines, and the primary reason is of course, the cost of the transactional fee that goes with each of these. So its a prefect niche for Bitcoin isnt it?

4:53 ABL: Once you get to a place of adoption it is, but again you have like this chickenegg problem where it almost doesnt make sense to develop it until youve got the market but you cant have the market until youve developed the application so... I think that projects like Morgan is undertaking are really important because yes, they are speculative, but theyre foundational. These are technologies again, whats he doing ? He is essentially created something thats an interface to push a button; but still, the implications, if you play it out, are enormous. 5:19 SM: Yeah, exactly. Thats gonna make peoples lives easier, and I think people really appreciate when you make their lives easier. You know, I was just picturing for instance, what if there was a bar or like a coffee shop or something; that had up at the bar a Bitcoin vending machine and next to it, a bitcoin soda machine; so like you could maybe put cash in, get some Bitcoins on your phone and then for the next month or so, youd be able to [audio broken] QR code next to a soda machine and get a soda with your Bitcoins that you just bought. That would be real cool and it would provide a way to get around the cash issue and the soda machine could be much smaller if it operated with something like Bitcoin. So, the possibilities are just endless and specially if its paired with a quick and easy way for people to get bitcoins; it evens increases it more, specially during the adoption phase where people having trouble getting bitcoins sometimes. 6:12 AA: Adam, do you know if the platform used for this project was something like an Arduino or RaspberryPi or something like that. Id be interested in the possibilities of others using embedded micro-electronics to do Bitcoin stuff. 6:26 ABL: I dont know the specific hardware that hes working on, but I do know that it is based off of Arduino, and that it is an open source platform. Im not sure if his project is fully open source, Im not clear on that; but he has been developing his initial prototypes on that platform. And its great because the barrier to entry there to just create something and make sure its gonna work is so low that again, you can leverage this. The cost to do it is quite low, even though its very speculative. 6:49 AA: I think that intersection of micro-electronics, kind of hacker spaces and micropayment will be very interesting. 6:57 ABL: Absolutely, and weve already seen.. I mean, Morgans project is certainly an important one and hes been working on it for a bit longer I guess than this other one. I spoke with Andy Schroeder the other day. Hes working on a bitcoin fluid dispenser and he has a 20 minute video up that were gonna link in the shownotes when I run that interview; that essentially shows this entirely portable diesel dispensing system, that is based off of this design that he has. You go to a gas station and you wanna buy gas. You have two options generally speaking: you can either put in a credit card or a debit card and then itll essentially debit, take money off, and increase your bill and in the end of it it charges you; or you can go into and talk to the cash register attendant, give them say 40 bucks or 20 bucks, whatever you wanna put on to it, go back out, fill up your car and then, once youre done if you have change, then you go back and you get the change. So with this bitcoin fluid dispenser, say I have an idea of how much I want and I think its gonna cost me 40 bucks of bitcoin. Well if

I wind up spending 30 bucks worth of bitcoin in order to get the amount of gas that I wanted to get, then automatically, once my transaction is completed, the remainder is sent back to the same address that it came from. So its very very similar to having a cash transaction with the attendant inside, except you have all of the convenience of just doing it at the pump like you would with the credit card. Thats something that initially is being applied to fuel, and I think that it has a lot of interesting applications in the world of fuel and fuel dispensing but, it could also be applied to any sort of liquid. You could apply you know Stephanie you mentioned soda, I was thinking about like a draft beer machine, or something like that. Get those big jugs of water, things like that. Theres this entire list of things that you can do using the same type of interface. 8:39 AA: To our previous conversation, I hope he has the ability to set it to measure in milliliters and liters, for internationalization purposes; because quite honestly no one else in the world understands what on earth youre talking about with these flozes and ozes and ?? and gallons. So, since you cant get your metric together, I hope hes got an interface in there for the rest of the world who did get their metric together. 9:06 ABL: I think thats a relatively easy part of the problem to solve. 9:10 SM: I really like this idea about the bitcoin fluid dispenser, because it really automates that kind of work; like, no longer would bartenders have to sit there and fill up a glass of coke by pressing a button and you know, potentially pressing the wrong button or whatever, and spending their time to do that. It could all just run off of bitcoin. When you pay a certain amount, you get a certain amount of liquid. And, thats making life easier hey ! 9:35 AA: So I think that probably speaks to a broader opportunity here for various types of micro-electronic devices to bring Bitcoin into to the real world, and allow you to do various forms of counting, measuring or dispensing fluids, of solids, of discrete units of electricity or whatever else it might be. 9:55 SM: You know, potentially this could even be a way to make these things cheaper because, when a human being doesnt have to spend their time i.e: on the clock, dispensing liquids or whatever youre dispensing, then maybe those savings could be passed on to the consumer. 10:10 ABL: You know its a double-edged sword in a world where we increasingly have less service oriented jobs. And I mean, this is something where as we move more and more into an automated future, and certainly thats what Bitcoin is, as sort of a programmable form of money as its recently been called, leads us to. A lot of these service jobs dont really make sense any more so I mean how do think that works? I mean, I ran out of logic for a second. 10:38

SM: Its great, I mean its kind of the age old where when cars were invented the people who made horseshoes were upset. There are always going to be jobs for people, and liberating people from jobs that might not be that exciting like dispensing beer or whatever. That could be a great thing and it could also make the products cheaper for the consumers. So technology is gonna move forward, a lot of jobs are gonna be replaced by robotics or automated systems and thats great, because then well be able to pay less for the things that we buy and people wont have to do those jobs that, frankly a robot can do; theyll be free to do other things. 11:16 ABL: I think that thats a scary future for people moving forward though, I mean I understand what youre saying Stephanie, and this obviously gets off into the weeds from the bitcoin topics, but thats like a really common concern that people have is that: yes, youre right, in theory, but how long does it take to develop those jobs? With the way that the world is looking right now, where we have these global financial issue that doesnt really seem like its going away and jobs in many places dont seem like theyre really coming back. 11:45 AA: Dont worry, its not the Bitcoin bumps that are gonna really mess things up. Its actually the ability of Bitcoin to bring in the services as the other 6 and a half billion and replace us, the service industries, that are dealing in knowledge work. Thats going to be a much bigger effect than replacing physical service businesses with Bitcoin, for sure. 12:06 SM: I think its inevitable that this is gonna happen, I mean, manufacturing has been going this way for years, since it began becoming increasingly automated and yeah, theres pain when people get displaced from manufacturing or potentially service jobs but, the great thing about human beings is they dont just have one skill, they can do all kinds of different things. When one door closes another one opens, we kind find all kinds of different opportunities. Its inevitable, its gonna happen; we just have to find a way to roll with it. 12:36 Music Fade-In 12:40 Advertisement JT: Hello, Im Jeffrey Tucker, Bitcoin enthusiast and host of the upcoming cryptocurrency conference in Atlanta, Georgia October 5th. Weve got a marvelously libertarian infused day of discussion about what is indisputably the future of money, and you are invited. For those of you who cant attend, weve partnered with Lets Talk Bitcoin to offer video conference passes. Available for government currency and of course, Bitcoin. For more information: bitcoinvideopass.com 13:15 Advertisement Blockchain.info Woman: More than 300.000 users, and counting, trust Blockchain.info. Its a Bitcoin wallet service and a wealth of Bitcoin information and its completely free to use. With the Blockchain.info wallet youll get the convenience of a web wallet, and the security of a desktop client. Blockchain.info is also a block explorer. You can use it to see bitcoin transactions in real time, check the balance of any bitcoin address and

view many handy bitcoin charts, all for free. See what they have to offer today, at Blockchain.info. 13:43 ABL: In the journey of Bitcoin, Cyprus has taken something of a leading role. Even though its a relatively small country by most country standards, it was the first to demonstrate that the banking sector has rules that are subject to change in just about any time if the situation is bad enough. Earlier in the year, we spoke with Michael Hill who was getting ready to take the Bitcoin message to Cyprus, and to start educating people about it there. Were a couple of months later, and so Im really happy to be rejoined by Michael Hill and his partner Danny Brewster, so they can update us on whats happening in the region. Michael, its great to have you back on the show.. 14:17 MH: Hi Adam, thanks for having me man. 14:19 ABL: Yeah, absolutely. So, were also joined by Danny Brewster. Danny Brewster is your business partner, right? For your ventures in Cyprus. 14:25 MH: Hes basically the mastermind behind this project, thats how I like to call it. Im more of helping him out in marketing and advertising department here in Cyprus. 14:33 ABL: Its been a few months, can you catch us up whats happened during that time, what have you been able to accomplish. It seems like you definitely made some progress. 14:40 MH: A lot has happened. Since then what has followed are many layoffs; economic downturn has dampened the mood. The economy of Cyprus seems to be at a standstill right now, in the sense that people dont trust banks. Businessmen have to struggle with capital controls. In general, it seems like Cyprus is headed for a very serious recession this year. Generally speaking, the central banking system has failed people here in Cyprus; thats how they see it. Like you said, we last spoke back in April. Back then the mood was much different, and then we know Bitcoin spiked in price during the Euro group decision in March 15. Most people have forgotten whats been happening here in Cyprus. Even though Cyprus is out of the headlines as of late, people here are dealing with a new reality of a collapsed banking system. Thats where, we come in. 15:32 ABL: When we spoke last, you were getting ready to head to Cyprus and you were in Greece at the time. What was the initial experience like, trying to introduce these concepts to people, because again, like you said, the banking system, the central banking system has failed; and yet, I dont think that theres any talk about anything like leaving the Euro and taking back control of the currency locally, is there? 15:52 MH: Well, there were certain politicians that tried to popularize the idea of getting out of the Euro and maybe reissuing the pound, but quickly those discussions just ceased, you know, they just stopped. Nobody considers it a viable option for Cyprus and, certainly, there is no politician gunning for that option right now. So the mood

in Cyprus right now that we really have no choice, we have to stand the Euro, we have to follow the decisions from the Euro group and the Troika. To a lot of people, when we come out and say: Look, theres another alternative. We can start using Bitcoin. People need to be educated for sure, about Bitcoin, we need more Greek language content, more meetings on the ground here in Cyprus, more person to person talks with merchants, business people, consumers. Thats how were getting things done. Its a relatively slow process, certainly a lot slower than maybe a lot of people would like but, were making sure and steady steps to ensure that this business will be a success on this market. 16:55 ABL: When we first spoke, you had the idea about focusing on education and trying to bring awareness, but the project that you guys have grown into involves a couple of different businesses. First one is, I think the one that everything is built off of is called NEO. Can you tell us a little about that Danny? 17:10 DB: Yeah, sure. NEO is going to provide brick and mortar branches around the island, so people can obtain Bitcoin in the most easy way, in the way that they are used to dealing with a financial institution and, were going to make it really accessible. So well give them a wallet that we look after the security for, and also we remove all the complexities from Bitcoin in its raw format that myself, Michael and pretty much all of your listeners are used to dealing with, so its common for them, but the average man or woman in the street are somewhat put off by the complexities of Bitcoin. As soon as you start talking to them you can see them switch off within 30 seconds of mentioning the word cryptography. Were looking to remove all of that, take care of it all and let them use Bitcoin in a way that suits their means best. 17:58 ABL: So what does that look like? I guess I have two questions here. First off when were talking about brick and mortar locations, are these locations where youre partnering with an existing bank to provide Bitcoin services or is this a business entirely devoted to this NEO concept of Bitcoin banking? 18:14 DB: Yes, were opening our own NEO branches around the island. 18:17 MH: Were starting from scratch basically. Everythings from scratch, you know, freshly baked like momma used to do. 18:22 DB: We need to ensure that we can build our own trust, and develop that trust over a period of time with our customers and the appropriate people. To go and partner with and existing bank and offer this, it would go against the grain of everything, because the traditional banks don't have that trust anymore. Theres a piece thats been released in the newspaper here today, that shows following a recent survey how many people actually trust the banks here; and it is 4 in 5 do not trust [laughs heard in the back] any of the traditional banks. 18:53 ABL: Im sure that there are lots of people around the world who would like to do what it is that youre doing there, where youre offering very accessible banking services

or youre helping to offer very accessible banking services; but there are a variety of reasons, many of them regulatory, that sort of seem like they prevent that. Is the situation different in Cyprus or like you said, since the banking system is collapsed there are no limits to their control? 19:16 DB: No, there is no limits to their control. First of all, to make us regulated, they need to recognize Bitcoin as money. That is something that were lobbying through our lawyers and our accounting partners, and also some other existing business were getting involved with this process now: to create a clear and concise legal framework for Bitcoin businesses to work within; so Cyprus can then attract outside investment, which is something that Cyprus really wants for itself. Through having that clear and concise framework, it will become a hot bed and actually create a whole new Bitcoin industry in Cyprus because theres so many people looking to find a friendly jurisdiction where they know where they stand. Thats what were lobbying for here, and because Cyprus is so small we can get direct to the decision makers, and we already have. So weve always got the clear channels of communication with these people to ensure this can happen. 20:06 MH: Cyprus has a long history of its a service oriented economy. So, we do have the workforce and the infrastructure even to make something like this work. Also, it has a long tradition of commerce. Cyprus is not so much of a producer, or a farming economy or a primary sector economy. Its very much geared towards tertiary sectors, services, finance and business. This, along with the economic situation, with the collapse of the banks and the economic downturn; it really makes Cyprus an ideal place to open this business. 20:38 DB: Coming on from that, someone said to me, that hadnt heard of Bitcoins prior to meeting me, about three months ago; hes now one of the biggest Bitcoin followers out there. He fills my inbox every day with every single Bitcoin news story, with his own comments. He said to me: for revolution to occur you need a big bang event and the violence was that big bang event, which has provided the platform for this to succeed here in Cyprus; to hand the power back to the people that were left powerless by those that have taken their trust and abused it. 21:11 ABL: So you said that youre going to hide a lot of the complexity from users. Can you give us a little bit of details about what part specifically youve identified? 21:19 DB: The first one: its your Bitcoin address. A [garbled audio: 34?] character key, to look at it, compared to an 8-digit account number that youd get with a traditional bank; absolutely everyone that Ive spoken to prefers the 8-digit account number. So were going to be changing behaviours, but not changing them too fast because, if you try and enforce too much change too quickly, people just reject it. Were going to let them interact with also how they do their normal traditional bank so we can make that change slowly over a period of time. 21:49

ABL: Let me just take a guess here. What youre gonna do is youre going to give them an account number that'll be with NEO and then, thatll be connected to one or multiple Bitcoin addresses. 21:58 DB: Yes, in the back-end were going to be using multiple-signature addresses, so if the account holder was to suddenly pass away or anything, the heirs to that money can obtain the balance from that wallet; and also should we fail as a business, through another 3rd legal party they can provide the two private keys to gain access to that wallet. So even if were not here as a business anymore, people could still their money out. 22:26 ABL: Both parties turn their keys at the same time and there are three keys out there that work. 22:30 DB: Yes. 22:31 ABL: That sounds like an interesting way to remove a lot of the complexity without removing any of the limitations. The multi-sig key thing is a really interesting way to go about that, its like people are partnering with you to secure their funds, because on their own they lack the ability to do that and on your own you dont have the ability to do that and still make it available to them in a way that they need it to be available. So I think thats an interesting solution for that. 22:54 DB: Yes, plus it also removes the possibility of us failing and the customers money disappearing at the same time; and also it protects sons, daughters, grandchildrens inheritance so they can always access those coins. (in) The contract that we have with 3rd party, well make it publicly known who that 3rd party is once the final decision has been made; so that contract between ourselves will ensure that we cannot just take a customers money. All they can do is, at the request of the customer or in the presence of a death certificate, provide access to that wallet. 23:29 ABL: This interlocks with your other system which is called BEE and, BEE seems to me to be kind of like a transaction network, is that right? 23:38 DB: Yes, its our version of Visa or Mastercard. The name was taken because the president at the time of the bail ins, was talking about a plan B that he never really had. So weve called the network BEE as in plan B and also we can slide the Bitcoin logo into the BEE logo as well. 23:57 MH: And also because everyone loves bees I guess. 24:00 DB: So with BEE well allow our customers to access their fund through a network of merchants. We can provide almost instant settlements and, much much lower transaction fees, in comparison to the monopoly holder here in Cyprus that provides payment

gateways. Because of that monopoly holder, e-commerce hasnt taken off in Cyprus as it has on pretty much every other country in the world. 24:24 MH: I would also add that the payment network also answers the very frequent question of: Ok what can i do with bitcoins? In the Bitcoin meetings people are saying: ok, say that I buy a bitcoin, I mean whos gonna accept it? how do I use it? This would be an obvious answer. Were planning on initially launching with a network of a 1000 merchants in Cyprus, that will accept the BEE payment network. Once we have that in place, itll be a lot easier to convince people to deposit their money with NEO and to use the payment network card. 24:58 ABL: Have you been talking to merchants about that yet? 25:01 DB: Yes! I really wish that I could give the big blockbuster news, but were just waiting to sign the contracts on the second one, but I can guarantee you it will make a few headlines within Bitcoin. 25:11 MH: Yes, and also, I can say that a lot of people here in the [audio garbled], a lot of merchants like small shop owners or just convenience store owners, something like that; theyre very interested in this. Specially with the low transactions fees and the instant pay settlements. I mean, those two are just so obvious advantages to them, theyre practically sold right now, I would say. 25:34 ABL: So, from the users perspective, what does a BEE transaction look like? Is it like a debit card transaction? 25:40 DB: To use the BEE network, were going to be using AMB chip and pin systems, but were also adding a second layer of authentication; because Bitcoin being irreversible and instantaneous we need to ensure that a card and PIN cannot just become compromised, as it with a traditional bank; so what weve added in is fingerprint technology so it doesnt slow down transaction time. There are other ways do it but people in Cyprus ,there isnt a great market penetration of smartphone users as there are on other parts of the world. So the easiest way for us to do it, is through fingerprint technology and the chip and PIN system. So to compromise the card they need to cut the persons finger off and, get the PIN number and the card to be able to use it in the store. Online were going to be introducing for both our online account management services and for online cart purchases, were going to use a chip and PIN smart card reader, that is very common in the UK and it has reduced the losses of banking fraud drastically since the introduction of these. It provides once the customers put the card into the reader, entered the PIN number, provided the response codes on the screen, which will then provide the customer with a number that they must respond into the system with, to add another layer of authentication. 27:07 ABL: So this is two-factor authentication where you have a little point of sale card reader device plugged into your computer.

27:13 DB: Its not much bigger than a credit card itself. Almost all the banks in the United Kingdom use them, and they have had really high success rates of reducing compromised accounts online. 27:24 MH: Its much safer. 27:25 AA: Yeah. 27:25 ABL: So whats the catch? Not specifically with the card reader, but with your project in general. What are the risks and dangers youre still trying to overcome? 27:32 DB: The biggest one is the price volatility with Bitcoin. That was a barrier of entry to our customers, so we are going to be offering pegged accounts. Most of the current terms are being brought up from within the community, the lack of platforms to trade options and futures; so weve gone out and spoken with the operators of the existing platforms, that have vasts amounts of liquidity on their platforms. The response has been great, some of them are going to be included in our lobbying process. One this morning was already planning all types of different funds that they could offer in Bitcoin, before Id even left the room. So the response there has been great. We know that we need to get these platforms to be able to reduce the risk on ourselves, and that will be an added benefit to Bitcoin, because throughout the forums, the threads, reddit and places like that, people constantly complain that they have a lack of options in trading platforms, because its very much restricted to the common 3, 4 exchanges. So weve gone out there to speak with the operators of these platforms, which could increase the amount of liquidity and increase the volume in Bitcoin itself with their own existing customer base; but it also gives people from within Bitcoin already, a chance to acquire the services that theyve been looking for, for quite a while. 28:51 ABL: These arent conventional Bitcoin exchanges, theyre more like legacy platforms that deal with traditional FOREX?

28:57 DB: Yes, traditional financial markets, yes. 29:00 ABL: And youre partnering with them to integrate Bitcoin into their offerings? 29:04 DB: Were not essentially partnering with them, were selling Bitcoin to them to get them to introduce it into to their offering. We will have trading relationships with some of the platform because well need to use them. 29:17

I see. So, rather than trying to bootstrap locally using only the liquidity available in Cyprus, youve gone to the international market and are using their liquidity to ensure all your local needs are met while growing the Cyprus market. 29:29 DB: Yes. 29:30 ABL: Ok so again, whats the catch? 29:33 DB: From the outset, I set out; when I was developing this idea, even before the banking fiasco to happen in March and April here: What are the problems for Bitcoin to catch on on a mass scale? Complexity, cannot spend my money, the volatility; so through addressing each one of those problems it brought up new problems, which have been well documented in the thread and Ive been unable, I couldnt really talk about it too much. But now, things have progressed even further. Ive brought meetings forward to ensure that I could provide more information than was previously envisioned. So weve gone out and addressed, weve made the connections with the regulators, the lawyers, the accountancy firms; and the people that are working in finance here already. So weve got all the contacts, and most of them are great on the idea. A lot of these people have lost out in the banks already, so they want to see an alternative. The biggest part that we keep getting told by these people is, youve got to market it right; which is why weve partnered with [agency name, audio unclear], and some of the activities that weve got, Michael will be able to tell you about, even in more detail. At first for Bitcoin again, were advertising on the TV, with airlines as well, airports. 30:47 MH: Were planning a full media campaign for when we launch, full PR campaign as well. Organizing road shows and talking to merchants, setting up the network and then advertising to the general public about NEO. Weve been working with [names garbled] and theyre ready to go; were just waiting for the right moment to pull the trigger on that. Yeah, like you said, youre looking for the catch here. The fact that youre finding it hard to find a catch, it just shows how much sense this business model makes. In the conditions that were living in right now, here in Cyprus; it just seems to be like the perfect storm of events have come together to create this business, and were really confident that it will work. 31:33 DB: There is always risk involved. I dont want people to think that were ignoring risks. If Bitcoin was to catastrophically implode there is risk involved, but weve taken steps to ensure that we have a contingency plan for each and every possible case scenario. We are operating on the full reserve basis and, theres a spreadsheet going to be released which demonstrates just exactly how we can trade, and people themselves including yourself Adam, can put their figures in. The spreadsheet is preloaded with all the figures from the height of the April crash down to the lowest point when it crashed 75% across two days. Weve already included those figures, so if anybody wants to add their own figures, their own amount of deposits, spread them out differently between time based accounts and instant access accounts; theyll be able to do that and see how exactly our business model operates to ensure that the customers always got the correct amount of bitcoins in their wallet.

32:32 ABL: So, the full reserve basis is an interesting thing. Weve seen people talk about or attempt Bitcoin banks before, but you seem fairly far along in the process. Whats the next step? Whats required to make this actually happen? 32:43 DB: The IPVO will start on Friday at 1PM EST. 32:47 ABL: Ok whats an IPVO? 32:48 DB: Its Initial Public Virtual Offering. Many people within Bitcoin refer to them as IPO which is very much a Wall Street term, but what were offering is essentially crowdfunding with a profit share. So we wanted to differentiate ourselves from the traditional stock markets. Its not traded on Wall Street, its traded on Bitfunder and its accessible through BTCTC and Havelock as well. With getting the collective from within the Bitcoin community to raise the initial capital required to take all of these steps, things are being pretty positive so far, but I dont count my chicken until its done. 33:24 ABL: So if youre not using the fractional reserve model, how are you planning to generate this profits? 33:30 DB: What were going to be doing is removing the negative risk of the volatility so when the price drops we add more bitcoins to our customers wallets from our own reserves; when the price increases, the exchange rate increases with bitcoin, thats where we make a profit for those accounts. We do have some time based deposits accounts, between 6 and 60 months, where people can essentially put their money into their wallet for 6 months, 12 months, 24. Theyll receive a percentage of every months growth and then we as NEO will benefit from the rest but we also provide the protection against the falls in the price. So they are offered the potential to earn more as more as Bitcoin grows itself. That also ensures the coins arent going to be withdrawn for 6 or 12 or 24 months. Were going to be offering insurance products through a carrier, so we can brand the products and thats very much still in the works. Were not just operating on the basis that the bitcoin price is going to go up. We are looking to bring in other additional strings of income, such as international money remittance, transaction fees on BEE and the POS rental charge. Weve tried to be as fair as we possibly can for to merchants. The first one thousand merchants we are removing all barriers to the adoption, so theyre getting free transactions and the free POS too. So they have the added incentive to talk into to their customers to getting them to with BEE, because they dont have to pay 3, 4, 5, up to 10% and they get the money almost instantly so 35:07 ABL: That sounds like a really interesting approach. Youre letting people locally use Bitcoin without any of the price fluctuations and youre funding by essentially letting investors speculate on your local customers behalf. So your investors are taking on the price volatility risk, for better or for worse, and the people who just wanna function on the transaction network can use it that way.

35:26 DB: When the balance in their wallets decreases because each one of those bitcoins is worth more, the balance goes into our reserves. 35:33 MH: That would be for accounts pegged in Euros. If someone has deposits in Bitcoin obviously the price fluctuation wont affect the amount of Bitcoin in there. 35:42 ABL: Right but similarly theyre not protected from the price decreasing and the volume in their account would decrease along with it. 35:48 DB: Yes. 35:48 MH: Yes, yes. 35:49 DB: I expect the majority of our initial customers to take on the pegged accounts. 35:54 ABL: Makes sense, it makes it stable so you can conduct commerce. 35:57 DB: Yes, were giving the people the opportunity to use the part of the Bitcoin protocol which benefits them the most, and right now here, the public feel is the majority of them just want to protect their money. Following research that weve done previously, the majority would rather put some money away and potentially get a return, but know that that money just cannot be taken by the bank or by the Government to pay for somebody elses mistake; than get a guaranteed 2% over a twelve month period and not know if theyre getting that money back at the end of it.

36:32 ABL: So if someone wants to learn more and get involved with your project, what are the best ways to do that? 36:37 DB: The prospectus is available at lmb-holdings.com. You can find us in the Securities thread of bitcointalk.org. Im more than approachable myself, my username pretty mch everywhere is CrytpoCyprus; so people can get in touch with me. Those who have asked me questions already have always had a response and Ill continue that as much as my time allows. I happen to be in 20 hour days pretty much every day, but I am very much wind to be open and transparent with everybody; and answer all questions, concerns with regards to the business. 37:10 MH: As far as the general public is concerned there have been criticism about the legality or the regulation surrounding Bitcoin. Whether any future regulation would be imposed on Bitcoin. Of course, we cant answer that, we dont know; but Danny has said

from the beginning that we are going to be fully compliant with any ECB rules or regulations that may be introduced in the future. 37:35 DB: But we are also taking the proactive approach to saying to them: wed much rather take the front foot and have a say in any framework that is created or provided or guidelines that are provided for Bitcoin businesses. Its better to have somebody from the insides, that knows what Bitcoin is and what it is capable of; to have a say directly with the regulators. So that is something that were addressing from the start as well. That was one of the concerns from the public, when we spoke to them so thats why were making these lobbying efforts as well. 38:05 ABL: Well guys Im really excited about your project. Looks like youve got a lot of traction with the idea and, its a good one. Danny and Michael, thanks for joining me at Lets Talk Bitcoin. Well catch up with you again soon and look forward to your continued progress. 38:16 MH: Ok thanks Adam, and hope to see you in Cyrpus some time ! 38:18 ABL: Yes, some time soon. 38:19 DB: Brilliant. 38:20 Advertisement - Stephanie Murphy SM: Hi! Stephanie here, would you like to turn your book into an enthralling audio book? Need a persuasive commercial to promote your company? How about a narrator for your explainer video? Heres where I could help: Im a freelance voice-over artist and since 2009, Ive led my voice to dozens of audio projects. To hear some examples of my work, check out my website: smvoice.info . If you like what you hear, Id love to be the voice of your next project. Get in touch, at smvoice.info. 38:50 Advertisement - Seans Outpost JK: Hi, this Jason King, founder at Seans Outpost, and you are listening to Lets Talk Bitcoin. Seans Outpost is a homeless outreach in Pensacola, Florida; and we are proudly powered by Bitcoin. To date, over 13000 meals have feed to the homeless in our area, all purchased with Bitcoin and through the generosity of the cryptocurrency community. Read more about us at seansoutpost.com . Food, shelter, Bitcoin. Everybody. Seansoutpost.com 39:19 AA: This week, TechCrunch is running the TechCrunch Disrupt Conference; and as is happened many times before in tech conferences, there was a bit of controversy around sexual harassment and specifically some inappropriate content. Now, I dont really want to get into the argument of what is and isn't inappropriate content, or how inappropriate or how not inappropriate the specific content was. Thats not really the point. I think the bigger point, at least to me is, technology has a problem and technology conferences specially have a problem with attracting people who are not

white male heterosexuals. So, the problem has a lot to do with how people who are not white male heterosexuals get treated when they do show up at these conferences. One of my pet peeves has been the fact that a lot of tech conferences, still in this day an age, do not have strong anti-harassment policies, and dont know how to enforce them. Part of the failure, and what happened at TechCrunch Disrupt, is really they were not prepared for this, they didnt have any policies in place beforehand, they didn't have any guidance for the people participating, they didn't have any of way of filing and managing complaints, they didnt have any way of solving problems with enforcement and so, as a result, they were completely unprepared. My concern here is that Bitcoin will face a very similar issue. Were massively multiplying the number of conferences. So far, I have not seen anti-harassment policies. Bitcoin is one of those spaces that is very male dominated, and as a result, I wouldn't be surprised, at least from my experience in the last 15 years of technology and going to hundreds and hundreds of technology conferences; if like in every other technology conference, were gonna face problems with sexism, harassment, possibly even sexual assault and worse in Bitcoin conferences unless we take some steps now. So thats my pet peeve and, what do you guys think? 41:20 SM: I have a lot of thoughts about this but, what kinds of steps would you say could be like concrete steps to end sexual harassment and basically make these kinds of conferences a more welcoming environment for everybody, regardless of gender, race, and orientation and all kinds of stuff like that? 41:38 AA: Well, actually thats a great question Stephanie and fortunately the silver lining if you like, is that because this is been increasingly paid attention to over the last 10 years or so; there have been a lot of very well developed conference policies that have been crowd-sourced and publicly available now as public domain documents that people can base their own anti-harassment policies on. The advantage here is that these policies have now been tested, through dozens of conferences. Conferences like the Python conference PyCon, the open source conferences organized by OSCon as well as the various Linux conferences, that were among the first to adopt these. That means that these policies have been tested with real problems, with serious problems including in some cases sexual assault and rape. 42:25 SM: Its just a horrible thing to think about: If Im going to this conference, will I be assaulted or worse? Nobody should have to be asking that question when theyre thinking about going to a tech conference. 42:38 AA: And yet its a question that I think a lot of women ask and, conversely I think a lot of men have the privilege of not having to ask that question or even consider it. When my wife goes to conferences, I insist that she goes armed, always. That may be a pet peeve for me, but quite honestly I find hotels to be very dangerous places and when you have a lot of professionals getting together and drinking, things happen. 43:00 SM: Yeah, sure they do. I knew this topic was gonna come up on the show at some point. We havent talked about it yet, but this is as good a time as any to bring it up. Its been really interesting for me, being female and being around the Bitcoin community, and just simply experiences that I've had. Personally my interests have always sort of tended to spaces that are a little more male dominated like, Im into liberty and

freedom, and Bitcoin and atheism or skepticism and so, all those things are pretty heavily male dominated. But Bitcoin really stands out as sort of the most, you know 95-98% male. Not that theres anything wrong with that, there are many great men that are in Bitcoin. I would like to see maybe a bit more diversity, but thats what weve got right now. I try to do what I can to tell all my female friends about Bitcoin, and to show them how to use it, to help them set up a wallet; so thats just my personal soapbox to try to bring more people of all different kinds into the community. But going to a Bitcoin conference, and walking in and seeing models at the booths, boothbabes as theyre sometimes called; being a women you do kinda get the sense that ehh this isnt really for me.. you know, this is for the guys to look at and, hey, I dont mind looking at beautiful women either, but you do just get the sense that this is not a place thats for you. Its a little unwelcoming. When I go on LocalBitcoins and I get a message from somebody who doesnt know me, invariably it starts out with: Hey bro, Hey dude, Hey man and 95% of the time, theyre right. Im the 5% where they're not. If you go on the Bitcoin forums, that is not a welcoming place for women. There are a lot of avatars, there are a lot of comments and posts, that just make it clear that women are not wanted here, this is not a place for women. You know, there is a little bit of way to go and, unfortunately, the people who care about issues of diversity whether its gender, racial or other kinds of diversity; those people who are really tuned in and caring about those things.. they already get it, right? But theres some people who dont get it, and theyre probably like a vocal minority; unfortunately, they can kind of taint a whole event with this flavor of discrimination or whatever. I do think that most people in the Bitcoin community, or the tech community, or the liberty community or what have you; their hearts in the right place. They dont hate women, they dont hate anybody; theyre tuned in to these things and they want to make it an environment where everybody wants to come. Its just that sometimes there are a few people who are loud and not very welcoming. 45:46 AA: You know, interestingly, I think thats really the key issue here, because youre absolutely right Stephanie, it is a tiny tiny minority. What has become evident from the application of anti-harassment policies, especially at places like PyCon and the Linux conferences, was that once a couple of women came forward and talked about sexual harassment, groping, fondling, suggestive stuff, all kinds of things like that; other women started coming out. One of the interesting things is it was the same people, it was the same one or two guys who were responsible for the vast majority of problems, again and again. So this was repeat issues with the same people, and thats bad news obviously because it shows that some of these situations are repeating; but the good news is that once that was seen and having these policies in place, it was very easy to stop; because it really was just a tiny tiny minority and once that minority was basically not welcomed in the conferences these issues really decreased dramatically. 46:49 SM: Yeah, 46:49 AA: So its easy to fix too. 46:50 SM: I dont know, I can see a little difficulty there too because, its like you dont wanna beat an entire community over the head with this hey you better be tolerant of women or else theres gonna be consequences. Most people dont need to hear that

message; its just a few, and theyre not listening anyway... so what do you do about these few people? 47:11 AA: But its not really about beating the message, its about the organizers having a clear policy that helps them deal with the issue. Think of it this way: lets say youre an organizer at one of these conferences and a woman comes up to you and says something happened last night with this guy while we were in one of the conference rooms or something like it... how do you handle that? If you dont have a policy you have no guidance, you dont know what to do next, it gets really hairy. If you have a policy it becomes actually a very helpful means of ensuring that you follow the steps and you treat everyone consistently and fairly, and in a way thats predictable and has been brought to their attention beforehand, and that removes a lot of the unfairness. I really think its all about the policy and what that does for the organizers, more so than dealing with this as applying rules to individuals. This isnt about nannyism or telling you what you should say or not; this is about the conference as a private organization saying Look these are the acceptable standards of professional behaviour in this professional engagement and we expects people to fulfill those requirements, as a private organization. 48:24 ABL: As the other caucasian heterosexual male here, let me play kind of the idiot. Im very evidence based and when we go to these events, Ive never seen anything that suggested any of this to me and Ive never heard anyone tell me anything that ever happened at one of these Bitcoin events. So this is something that were concerned about potentially happening. I mean the boothbabes aside, I totaly agree with you, the boothbabes that definately did happen. But outside of that one particular vendor in that one particular incidence; we dont actually know of anything like this happening in the Bitcoin space, right? 49:03 AA: To be clear: nothing has happened, to my attention, that I have heard of. This is not about something happening at a Bitcoin conference and, as a result requiring a change. This is about recognizing that when lots of adults get into a place, as professionals together, things happen. Especially in this kind of movement. Based on our experiences things will happen, simply because they have happened in hundreds of conferences again and again. So things will happen, its just a matter of time. My premise here is that if you have a policy beforehand, when things happen you can handle them a lot better than if you dont have a policy. Its as simple as it gets. 49:41 ABL: Ok and I can see the argument for that, I dont think I disagree with that. The thing that comes back to me is: aren't these things that were finding reprehensible also illegal? 49:52 AA: Some of them are, some of them are not. You know, of course, sexual assault, groping are. 49:58 SM: Making an app that lets you stare at breast is not illegal. 50:01

AA: Actually it was showing peoples faces while they were staring at breasts, so not the breasts themselves. But still, yeah, making something that objectifies women for example, thats not illegal. 50:12 SM: Nor should that be illegal, Id like to be clear, we dont think that should be illegal, or at least I dont think anyone here does. But yeah, I kind of agree with you Adam, of course no groping, of course no raping, that should go without saying. But, why is it still happening? 50:29 ABL: Ok, so then this is more about just being upfront and clear about what the expectations are, even regardless of what the rules in the real world are; this is setting the rules for these particular conference type of environments right? 50:42 AA: And not just the rules for what is allowed, but also the process for how to address an issue if it occurs, the expectations of what will happen when such an issue occurs; for example what are the implications of doing something like that? Do you get banned from the conference? At PyCon yes, you get banned. At LinuxConf you get banned for life if you pull one of those things. Now I think thats probably extreme but, whatever, the point is there is a policy, its clearly understood by all the participants before they go there and, you have a choice as to whether you want to go to a conference based on its policies or not. 51:16 ABL: So the solution here then, is just to demand essentially policies from these conferences, which does not cost them anything to put in place; its just something that they actually have to think about beforehand and then actually communicate to people who are attending right? I mean, thats the barrier here. 51:31 AA: Arguably it costs them less, because it exposes them to less liability than if they dont have a policy. Yes, and thats absolutely the argument, but the argument here is based on something else which I want to make explicit: These things escalate. If you allow boothbabes you get presentations that are objectifying to women. If you allow those, you get people behaving more and more aggressively towards women and it keeps escalating. What weve seen is that conferences that are permissive in such ways, tend to create an environment that becomes more and more hostile, not just women but minorities as well. I think its important to put these policies in place not because we want to just make sure that we have a response if something horrific happens, but also to reduce these kind of subtle and repeated offences if you like, that create an environment that leads to more serious ones. 52:29 ABL: So were trying to get in front of this it sounds like. Trying to prevent this from happening in the Bitcoin space by encouraging conferences and conference organizers to in fact, think about this problem before it occurs and, to have a policy in place. 52:42 AA: Im gonna get way further in front of it, by making an explicit pledge that I have made previously for conferences but Im now going to make explicit for Bitcoin. I will

not attend or speak at conferences that do not have explicit and enforceable antiharassment policies; because otherwise I would be encouraging exactly the kind of circumstances that lead to a sausage fest of a conference, and a hostile environment for non male heterosexuals. 53:14 SM: I think thats really brave of you, thank you so much for saying that Andreas. 53:18 AA: Its not brave actually, honestly it really is not. make Stephanie. Its very very its the easiest choice more of the bit speakers and especially the guys in the this is an issue and want to take it seriously, join me for us its easy.

Its an easy choice for me to possible, which is why I think Bitcoin community who think in taking this pledge, because

53:38 ABL: (laughs) I dont think any of the conferences were going to have policies in place yet. 53:42 AA: Oh yeah, I know, and thats gonna become an immediate issue with the Argentinian conference because, Im still in communication as to whether Im participating in that. Theyre gonna have to put a policy in place. 53:52 ABL: Yeah, I could definitely see something like that; again, I hadnt really been thinking about that too much, but Ill take a look at the conferences were going to and see how disruptive that potentially could be. So ok, again, I have trouble with things that I havent seen. Thats really my issue, is that I really try to be very evidence oriented and I havent seen anything like this. But I definitely understand the concern here. 54:12 SM: But how would youd seen it 54:14 ABL: No, I appreciate that. Certainly there are lots of more opportunities for me not to see than for me to see it. But thats my only real tie up on this is that... its scary. 54:24 AA: I totally understand. No, Adam, this is absolutely understandable. Heres the thing, I have seen it. Ive seen it at hundreds of conferences and Ive seen it again and again. Ive seen it in the atheist community, Ive seen it in the Linux community, Ive seen it in the open source community and Ive seen it in the security community. Adding up all of those experiences tells me that these are not isolated incidents, that these are not exceptions. These are patterns that develop and they develop in all circumstances where you have a field that is male dominated, unless the people in that field take active steps to stop it from developing. Thats simply the truth. This is not something that happens to bad conferences, this is something that happens to conferences. 55:06

ABL: Ok, well Im looking forward to seeing conferences in this space get out in front of this and hopefully avoid the problem entirely. 55:14 SM: I have a question that maybe we can wrap this discussion with, but its kind of a big one. How do you think is the best way to encourage more diversity in the Bitcoin space? Or do you think it will just happen naturally? And are you doing anything personally to try to help that happen? 55:32 ABL: Its a good question. I think that education is really the key. The reason why we have such a male dominated field in Bitcoin is because in order to appreciate a lot of the core advantages you have to have a variety of expertise almost. 55:46 SM: But what you were getting at was, why is the Bitcoin world mostly white straight men? Thats a really interesting question that I dont think anyone has an answer to. The first thing that comes to mind to me is an intersection of finance and cryptography or computers. Those are both male dominated fields. Now, the reasons for why.. is that because its a cultural thing and it becomes a boys club and the women get pushed out. Is it because women arent interested in those things in as great as numbers as men are interested in those things. Is it because were kind of groomed from birth to steer women away from stem fields and so forth.. 56:25 AA: All of the above? 56:26 SM: Yeah, or all of the above, some combination there of. For me, I want everybody to use Bitcoin right? And I care about having a large community made up of all different kinds of people. So, what I do is just try to tell all of my friends about Bitcoin and help them understand it, help them start using it. What I find is that women are just as receptive to it as men, if I try to talk to them about Bitcoin. Bitcoin can appeal to everybody. Its so neutral, its so global. It has the ability to just go into all kinds of spaces. Its not just for certain kinds of people, its for everybody. So, lets make it happen, tell all your friends about it. And if you wanna see more women using bitcoin, more people of color using bitcoin, more queer people using bitcon; tell your friends that fit these demographics, and I pretty much can guarantee that theyre gonna be interested in it. 57:20 AA: I think you can do a lot more in terms of increasing diversity within Bitcoin. Bitcoin reflects the rest of our culture unfortunately in that, it represents a technically male dominated field. But as people in this field we can take active measures to counteract that. If you recognize the fact that money is for everyone, its neutral, its a human right, everyone should have it and this is for everyone; then you dont have to accept the fact that because the culture is biased you're going to take that bias and reflect it in Bitcoin. You can work against that, you can actively work against that. You make hiring decisions for example, so when youre making hiring decisions: in my previous company on of the most important hiring policies we instituted was stripping names, ages and addresses off peoples resumes, so you have to judge them by their skills during the process. Only in the very end did

you find out who the person was, you had to do it blind. And that actually resulted, very quickly, in an increase in women and minorities in hiring. 58:19 SM: Thats interesting because there are actual studies that show hiring decisions are affected by the sound of the name, the gender and everything. 58:26 AA: Absolutely, its basically recognizing that bias is not something that bad people do. Bias is something that is intrinsic to the human experience. Ignoring that bias, or worse, feeding that bias is something bad people do. If you want, you recognize the bias is there, you recognize that even the most enlightened among us tend to make snap judgements based on names, based on age, based on location, state even. If you wanna cut those judgements out, you work actively to remove them so that you dont apply your bias. You can do that in hiring, you can do that in the way you do mentoring and career development within your company. You can look carefully at your Bitcoin startup, your new Bitcoin startup and ask yourself: are all my women in marketing? are all my engineering team men? If thats the case, then theres something wrong with your hiring. I dont want to prejudice this and say that Im going to get a hundred thousand emails. Im going to disclaim this upfront. Im talking about how I make my own choices. Im also suggesting that other people may want to think about their choices, thats all. Im not saying we should impose any of this on any one. Its all about private companies and private individuals making choices that promote the ideals that they wish to promote. Thats why Ive made the choice to not go to the conferences, but thats my private choice, Im not imposing it on anyone. 59:50 SM: You know, theres another point about that too. In a way, discrimination hurts the employer as much as the employee because, if someone is discriminating based on something arbitrary like gender, race or whatever; then they might miss out on a great employee and they could just go work for another company that doesnt have that bias. You know, unfortunately, in some spaces, everybody has these biases and people dont realize so it cant get addressed but, consider that when youre hiring. You might miss out on a great employee. 1:00:20 ABL: As we were getting into this conversation, I was a little bit concerned that we were gonna go the direction with it where we should be making sure where if you are in a Bitcoin or tech related company; you should be making sure to hire a minimum number of these other minority groups, but thats not what you were saying at all Andreas. 1:00:34 AA: No... 1:00:34 What you were saying is that youre just modifying the way that you even go about hiring and how you; you know, youre looking at skills before you look at the people. 1:00:42 AA: If you remove the organizational, institutional and subjective biases that you have in your hiring process, diversity happens, believe me. It may not happen as rapidly as you might like and youre still going to get some of that cultural bias filtering through, but you are going to be able to shrink that gap. At the end of the

day, when are talking about freedom and were talking about choices, the freer you are, the more you have the burden of that choice because your choice now has meaning, so make it carefully. 1:01:12 Music fades in 1:01:13 ABL: Thanks for listening to Episode 43 of Lets Talk Bitcon. Content for todays show was provided by Stephanie Murphy, Andreas M. Antonopoulos, Michael Hill and Danny Brewster. Music was provided by Jared Rubens and Jazz Town. If you cant get enough original thought and discussion, read our daily blog at letstalkbitcoin.com., sign up for our weekly Bitcoin newsletters at theweeklybitcoin.com. To get in touch, send me mail at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com or visit letstalkbitcoin.com/talk to be directed to our listener subreddit. Have a great day ! 1:01:50 Music fades out 1:01:57 End of episode.