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November 27th, 2007, 18:31 # 1 (permalink)
bulldogger Posts: n/a

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Steriod Studies
I tried searching the net and couldn't come up with anything, but I'm looking for studies that measured the effects of specific steroids on dogs. I
recall seeing one a while back and since there are different chemicals that work to different degrees, I was just looking for some solid, recorded
documentation that I could look at. If anyone knows where I might be able to find such experiments done on dogs I'd appreciate it if you could
point me in the right direction.
NDKennels Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogger

I tried searching the net and couldn't come up with anything, but I'm looking for studies that measured the effects of specific steroids
on dogs. I recall seeing one a while back and since there are different chemicals that work to different degrees, I was just looking for
some solid, recorded documentation that I could look at. If anyone knows where I might be able to find such experiments done on
dogs I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.
I've tried looking, too. I can't find any. But you can just research whatever you're wanting and see how they act upon the system. That'll give
you an idea.

I can find info on the effects in humans, but that doesn't really help me. I know I've seen a study with Winstrol that was used on mice, beagles
& horses, I was hoping there were similar studies done with other compounds.

Quote:

I can find info on the effects in humans, but that doesn't really help me. I know I've seen a study with Winstrol that was used on mice,
beagles & horses, I was hoping there were similar studies done with other compounds.
Pretty much all of them. lol. EQ, Tren, Winni, Test, Dbol, Abombs.... The way they affect a dog isn't gonna be different than a human.

That doesn't really help with appropriate dosages for a Treadmill race though, this study I saw was right along those lines. If you find any tests
done in dogs let me know.
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if you dont know exactly how to use AS on yourself, and have not done so or are not willing to do so do not mess with them on your dogs.
most AS, although they will act the same in a Canine dont fit the bill for what we are doing. there are only a few that would be worth messing
with but im not saying which ones or doses. there are too many people out there that dont know how to use them on a human athletes level.
barely anything is known about dogs except trial and error. error comes in the form of your dog running hot and quitting or Sterility . not worth it
for most of us.
JMO

I know numerous people that have used steriods on their dogs and have never used them on themselves. They have owned and shown BIS,
GIS, and CH dogs with these steriods they "don't know how to use" as you put it. I can agree that if someone has taken the time to use them
safely on themselves, then the odds go up they know the risks associated with the drug and therefore use them with caution when it comes to
the animals, but not everyone is an idiot so I don't agree with you completely, but hey that's what makes america so "free", we can disagree
and still sit down for some grub and get along. Here is an article on Winstrol that I finally found, I know there are others out there for different
compounds and that's what I was looking for.
WINSTROL-V
(Brand of stanozolol)
ANABOLIC STEROID
VETERINARY USE ONLY
Molecular Formula. C21 H32 N20 328.5

CHEMICAL NAME
17-methyi-2'H-5a-androst-2-eno (3,2-c) pyrazol-17B-ol.
DESCRIPTION
Stanozolol occurs as a nearly colorless, odorless, crystalline powder. It exists in two forms: as needles, melting at 153 - 156 C, and as prisms
melting at 230- 242 C. The optical activity of a 10/o chloroform solution is in the range Of + 34 to + 40 C at 25 C.
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Stanozolol is classified as an "anabolic steroid" because of its pronounced Stimulatory effect on constructive metabolism. Stanozolol appears to
be 30 times more active orally in increasing nitrogen retention and 2 times more myotrophic than methyltestosterone, while its adrogenic
activity is 1/4 to 1/3 that of methyltestosterone and 1/33 that of testosterone. In laboratory studies the difference between myotropic and
androgenic activity after 4 and 8 weeks of medication was significant. In further studies, although testosterone propionate induced a higher
initial level of nitrogen retention, stanozolol demonstrated nitrogen-retaining activity of greater duration. Its anticatabolic activity has been
demonstrated to be 8 times that of Methyltestosterone in reversing the urinary nitrogen excretion induced by Cortisone in young castrated male
rats. It is antagonistic to Cortisone-induced gluconeogenesis and to the body weight suppressive and adrenal hypertrophic effects of ACTH.
Renotrophic activity results in a marked increase in kidney Beta-glucuronidase and increased kidney weight. Stanozolol exhibited a moderate
anti-estrogenic effect when administered to ovariectomized rats concurrently with estradiol but failed to show any progestational activity in
immature rabbits.
ACUTE ORAL TOXICITY

The acute toxicity of stanozolol was shown to be very low in a study with male and female albino mice. The LD50 is greater than 4000 mg/kg.
ORAL
Oral dose levels of stanozolol ranging from 0.2 to 25.0 mg/kg/day have been used in rats, cats, dogs and monkeys for periods up to one year
for the purpose of evaluating the effects of this anabolic agent on the growth and bone development of young laboratory animals. The results
obtained indicate that stanozolol does not adversely affect the growth and bone development of young animals over extensive periods of
medication.
INJECTABLE
An aqueous suspension of stanozolol was administered by intramuscular injection to beagle dogs once a week for one year in doses of 2.0,
10.0 and 50.0 mg/kg. Cats were injected during a three-week period, twice weekly, in doses of 5.0 and 20.0 mg/kg. Albino rabbits were given
one single injection of 0.5 ml of a 100-mg/mL suspension and observed for three weeks. Stanozolol suspension was injected into male and
female albino rats, once a week, for one year in doses of 1.0, 5.0, 25.0 and 125.0 mg/kg. In terms of behavior and pharmacological effects the
drug was well tolerated. Typical pharmacological Changes reflecting the hormonal activity of Stanozolol were observed in the Reproductive
and/or endocrine organs and were generally dose related. Weekly Injections into horses with doses of 500.0 or 1000.0 mg/horse/week for four
consecutive weeks were well tolerated.
SUBACUTE AND CHRONIC TOXICITY
Male and female albino rats were given single daily oral doses of 0.2, 1.0, 5.0 or 25.0 mg/kg of stanozolol for twenty-six weeks. Only the
highest dosage of 25.0 mg/kg produced an overt effect in that it reduced the testicular weights in male rats. No deaths related to the effects of
medication occurred in any group. Stanozolol was given to beagle dogs in daily doses of 0.2, 1.0, 5.0 and 25.0 mg/kg for twenty-eight weeks,
250.0 mg/kg for sixteen weeks and 1000.0 mg/kg for six weeks. The dogs were normal in appearance and behavior during this time. At
autopsy all the female dogs given doses of 5.0 and 25.0 mg/kg daily for 26 weeks, 250 mg/kg/daily for 16 weeks and 1000 mg/kg daily for six
weeks had developed clitoral enlargement, an effect commonly observed with high doses of androgenic steroids: There were no significant
toxicological findings in these studies which would preclude the use of Stanozolol for the recommended indication and dose regimens.
REPRODUCTION STUDY
Pregnant New Zealand white rabbits were medicated orally with 0.2, 1.0 and 5.0 mg/kg of stanozolol from the eighth through the sixteenth day
of pregnancy. The medication was well tolerated by the does and had no adverse effects on the course of pregnancy. No teratogenic changes
or other congenital malformations, attributable to the medication, were observed in any of the pups delivered by those.
INDICATIONS AND CLINICAL USES
Winstrol-V (stanozolol) is indicated to increase nitrogen retention as an aid in treating debilitated animals when an improvement in weight, hair
coats and general physical conditions are desired. Clinical conditions most amenable to treatment are debilitated states resulting from illness,
surgery, traumatic injuries or overwork. In clinical investigations, administration of Winstrol-V frequency had a marked effect on horses
exhibiting diminished vitality and vigor due to overexertion. Anabolic therapy is intended primarily as an adjunct to other specific and supportive
therapy, including nutrition therapy. Optimal results can be expected only when dietary intake is adequate and well balanced.
CONTRADICATIONS
The effects of Winstrol-V in breeding animals or animals to be kept for breeding purposes have not been explored. It should not be
administered to
Animals exhibiting nepotistic disease.
SPECIAL CONDITIONS
Animals with impaired cardiac and renal function should be watched closely when receiving anabolic therapy because of the possibility of
sodium and water retention. Special caution should be exercised in aged dogs suffering from chronic interstitial nephritis. In such cases,
progress of the disorder should be checked by means of laboratory tests and treatment discontinued if the drug appears to aggravate the
disease. Local swelling and/or pain at the injection site in horses may be associated with administration of large doses of Winstrol-V
Suspension.
ADVERSE REACTIONS
Mild androgenic effects may be noted after prolonged therapy, such as, clitoral enlargement in female dogs, testicular and prostatic atrophy in
male dogs. Excessive dosages or prolonged therapy may result In increased masculinity In male horses.
DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION
Whenever indicated, anabolic therapy should be prescribed with or as a follow-up to other therapeutic measures.
DOGS AND CATS
The suggested oral dose for cats and small breeds of dogs is 1/2 to 1 tablet twice daily and for large breeds of dogs, I to 2 tablets twice daily
depending on body weight, for up to 6 months. If preferred, the tablets can be crushed and administered in feed. Treatment should be
continued for at least several weeks, depending on the condition and response of the animal. In certain chronic conditions, especially in aged
dogs, treatment can be continued for up to six months without untoward reactions. Because the injectable form is absorbed slowly, injections
may be given once weekly for up to 4 weeks. The suspension is best administered by deep intramuscular injection into the Thigh . The
recommended dose for cats and small breeds of dogs is 0.5 ml (25 mg) and for larger dogs I ml (50 mg). If desired, the two dosage forms of
Winstrol-V can be combined in a regimen of therapy. Many investigating clinicians gave an initial dose of the injectable form and then
Tablets for daily administration at home.
DOSAGE FORMS
Winstrol-V (stanozolol) Is available as: Each tablet, U or W on one side, score on other side, contains stanozolol 2mg. Bottle of 100 Each ml of
sterile suspension contains: stanozolol 50 mg, thimerosal (3.05 mg as preservative in Water for Injection. Multiple dose vials of 10 and 30 ml.
CAUTION: FOR VETERINARY USE ONLY


I personally would stay away from Winni and Tren. There are much better options.

Winny is proven to work, and it won't run a dog hot, but it can cause joint pain so supplementation to combat this is a must, other then that it's
a good choice from my experience. It doesn't aromatize and in the rare case that it does it won't do any harm to the animal provided the dose
isn't extreme, the highest I would dose it is 8mg per day and that's for a 50+ dog, for dogs that are 30-40ibs 4-6mg is plenty, all I use it for is
to aid in recovery.
I agree Tren isn't a good option, it will mess with the dogs mind and cause joint pain, it's also a bad choice for females. That being said what
do you feel are the best options and why ?
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why bother with all the shit?is it hard for some of you to bring a dog into form without using them?

Quote:

Winny is proven to work, and it won't run a dog hot, but it can cause joint pain so supplementation to combat this is a must, other
then that it's a good choice from my experience. It doesn't aromatize and in the rare case that it does it won't do any harm to the
animal provided the dose isn't extreme, the highest I would dose it is 8mg per day and that's for a 50+ dog, for dogs that are 30-
40ibs 4-6mg is plenty, all I use it for is to aid in recovery.
I agree Tren isn't a good option, it will mess with the dogs mind and cause joint pain, it's also a bad choice for females. That being
said what do you feel are the best options and why ?
WInni might be proven to work, but there are better options. Winstrol will weaken collagen. That's why there may be joint pain. Because of the
weakening, injuries will occur more often. Not always, but there is an increase. Usually the injury would be a Tendon or ligament which is more
serious than a muscle. The one reason I wouldn't use Tren is simply b/c of the direct affect it has on the liver and you can kiss endurance good
bye.
My options would be something like this:

Anavar- same effect as Winstrol, only without the weakening of collagen and most likely the safest steroid around. It also has a great strength
increase w/o weight gain. Only draw back is price plus you'll need about double the dose of WInni.
EQ- Huge strength increases while improving endurance. Most/all steroids improve RBC count but EQ happens to increase it more. It'll also
make your dog leaner. This stuff is actually pretty damn good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by savage

why bother with all the shit?is it hard for some of you to bring a dog into form without using them?
Thanks for the contribution
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just trying to work out wh yso many juice there dogs. a question for you blokes have ya's tried one perticular dog natural adn the same dog
juiced if so what did you notice?thanks in advance

Quote:
Originally Posted by savage

just trying to work out wh yso many juice there dogs. a question for you blokes have ya's tried one perticular dog natural adn the
same dog juiced if so what did you notice?thanks in advance
I know everyone has there own opinions on it, but this thread wasn't titled "What's your opinion on steroids?" Although your opinion is valid, it
has nothing to do with the thread topic. Plus, the OP was only asking about studies on dogs.Not necessarily what and how much to use.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDKennels

EQ- Huge strength increases while improving endurance. Most/all steroids improve RBC count but EQ happens to increase it more.
It'll also make your dog leaner. This stuff is actually pretty damn good.
How do you use Equipoise? Do you do post cycle therapy with HCG + Clomid/Nolvadex to avoid "post-cycle crash"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuerte Toro

How do you use Equipoise? Do you do post cycle therapy with HCG + Clomid/Nolvadex to avoid "post-cycle crash"?
On a dog??? If not, why use Clomid when it's almost the same as Nolva? Nolva is also stronger mg/mg. Plus, the sides of Clomid can get to
you pretty bad. Nolva, HCG, IGF-LR3, HGH beat out Clomid. Plus you can always us an AI during cycle to cut down on estrogen. EQ needs to
be run high and long w/ a base of Test, obviously. For bodybuilding purposes, I wouldn't run it less than 600mg for 14 weeks. On a dog, I'd
probably do 100mg/week for the same amount of time. Or roughly 2mg/lb
Last edited by NDKennels; November 30th, 2007 at 11:56.
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So you've never used EQ on a dog? Did you use any steroid on a dog?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuerte Toro

So you've never used EQ on a dog? Did you use any steroid on a dog?
I may have...I may not have. I do know how EQ affects a dog, though. Why do you ask?

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I'm just curios.

I can break it down for you like this; the fastlane is difficult to compete in, a large number of people in the fastlane are using steriods, I don't
know about you but it makes sense to me to level the playing field. Sure if you have a Hard Mouthed, high ability dog you might not need roids,
but if your facing one you better be sure you can burn him out before he burns you out, otherwise your going home without your dog. This is
all someone should ever use steriods for in a Keep , recovery, if the dog is able to repair muscle tissue quicker, it's ready to work harder the
next time, the harder a dog works in the Keep the better off he will be. I've seen dogs work natural and on roids and their is a difference, I
know other people have noted the same thing, the drug of choice was Winny, and to combat the joint problems they used supplements for joint
health starting in the pre- Keep , 2 weeks before they touched any steriod.
EQ is good stuff, I like it more then winny, but it's alot stonger and more expensive.
I've been thinking of trying out some EPO, but it makes me nervous, that's a no-nonsense compound.
What do you think of Tbol ?

LOL PCT and that kinda stuff for dogs is retarded, think about it, your putting your dog in the box, the last thing you should be worrying about
is high cholesterol or sperm count. Honestly, if you use just enough of a mild compound to see a difference (not a drastic change) you won't
need these things.
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EQ is a preferable drug, its excellent in adding body strength while not have a negative effect on cardio. Anavar is another fine drug for body
strength.

Quote:

I can break it down for you like this; the fastlane is difficult to compete in, a large number of people in the fastlane are using steriods,
I don't know about you but it makes sense to me to level the playing field. Sure if you have a Hard Mouthed, high ability dog you might
not need roids, but if your facing one you better be sure you can burn him out before he burns you out, otherwise your going home
without your dog. This is all someone should ever use steriods for in a Keep , recovery, if the dog is able to repair muscle tissue
quicker, it's ready to work harder the next time, the harder a dog works in the Keep the better off he will be. I've seen dogs work
natural and on roids and their is a difference, I know other people have noted the same thing, the drug of choice was Winny, and to
combat the joint problems they used supplements for joint health starting in the pre- Keep , 2 weeks before they touched any steriod.
EQ is good stuff, I like it more then winny, but it's alot stonger and more expensive.
I've been thinking of trying out some EPO, but it makes me nervous, that's a no-nonsense compound.
What do you think of Tbol ?
Don't know where you're shopping but EQ is wayyyyyy cheaper than winni. I've seen 10cc, 300mg/ml going for under $70. Winni is roughly
$60 for 10cc @ 50mg/ml. You do the math...
Tbol is a little newer and is basically right between Anavar & Dbol. Cheaper than Anavar but more expensive than Dbol. I've never tried it but
people are saying you get the strength like you would with Dbol without the bloat.
Quote:

LOL PCT and that kinda stuff for dogs is retarded, think about it, your putting your dog in the box, the last thing you should be
worrying about is high cholesterol or sperm count. Honestly, if you use just enough of a mild compound to see a difference (not a
drastic change) you won't need these things.
Yeah, I wouldn't worry about PCT on dogs. Especially since you should be running mild compounds anyway.
Winni is becoming outdated especially since there are way better options. It may make them stronger with no weight gain and better cardio.
But Var does the same thing without weaker collagen and less risk for tendon/ligament injury, as do many other compounds. I personally
wouldn't use Winni unless I was just doing long walks & Treadmill for a conformation show. But if you're doing that, then you shouldn't waste
money on gear when Diet & exercise will do just as good.
money on gear when Diet & exercise will do just as good.
I've read about EPO but would still opt for EQ. EQ increases RBC which is what EPO does, just maybe not at the same rate. But I think the
difference it will make is minimal. That's JMO though. Plus, you already know the side effects of EQ which is a plus.

I use orals, I don't like injections as they can be painful and the whole point is improving performance, I know if I have a pain in my leg I can't
run like I did with no pain.
Tbol is an older steriod, but I don't think many people have used it on their dogs.

Quote:

I use orals, I don't like injections as they can be painful and the whole point is improving performance, I know if I have a pain in my
leg I can't run like I did with no pain.
Tbol is an older steriod, but I don't think many people have used it on their dogs.
Orals are far less effective compared to injections. You need higher doses, more $, and are often more hepatic. After a few injections, pain isn't
a problem. Especially since you aren't using human doses, and less than half cc is usually the most that is needed.
Tbol was produced in the 1960s and is just now seeing a boom in popularity. Should have made myself more clear.
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November 27th, 2007, 18:31 # 1 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

November 27th, 2007, 20:08 # 2 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by bulldogger

November 27th, 2007, 21:02 # 3 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

November 28th, 2007, 17:21 # 4 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by bulldogger

November 28th, 2007, 19:02 # 5 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

November 29th, 2007, 09:14 # 6 (permalink)

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November 29th, 2007, 16:27 # 7 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

Molecular Formula. C21 H32 N20 328.5

ACUTE ORAL TOXICITY

SUBACUTE AND CHRONIC TOXICITY

INDICATIONS AND CLINICAL USES

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION

DOGS AND CATS

CAUTION: FOR VETERINARY USE ONLY

NDKennels Posts: n/a

November 29th, 2007, 18:25 # 9 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

November 30th, 2007, 03:17 # 10 (permalink)

Last Online: January 29th, 2008 03:19

November 30th, 2007, 04:26 # 11 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by bulldogger

My options would be something like this:

Originally Posted by savage

Thanks for the contribution

November 30th, 2007, 07:15 # 12 (permalink)

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November 30th, 2007, 10:23 # 13 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by savage

November 30th, 2007, 10:36 # 14 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by NDKennels

November 30th, 2007, 11:54 # 15 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by Fuerte Toro

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November 30th, 2007, 12:55 # 16 (permalink)

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November 30th, 2007, 14:03 # 17 (permalink)

NDKennels Posts: n/a

Originally Posted by Fuerte Toro

November 30th, 2007, 14:59 # 18 (permalink)

Last Online: October 8th, 2008 18:51

I'm just curios.

November 30th, 2007, 15:03 # 19 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

What do you think of Tbol ?

November 30th, 2007, 15:06 # 20 (permalink)

bulldogger Posts: n/a

November 30th, 2007, 15:07 # 21 (permalink)

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November 30th, 2007, 15:47 # 22 (permalink)

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