1 HistoricalCommissionofSchuylkillTownship OralHistoryProject

Dr.JohnLukacs Summary.JohnLukacs,oneofSchuylkill Townshipsmostillustriousresidents,istheauthor ofmorethan25books.Hehasbeencalleda historianwhohastheliterarytalentsofa novelist.InthisinterviewDr.Lukacsfocuseson developmentinSchuylkillTownshipandthe historyofAndersonPlaceandOldPickering School.Wearealsoallowedapeekintothefamily GuestBook.

December8,2005 (Revised) InterviewedbyNancyLoane TranscribedbyNancyLoane

NL:Canyoutellmeaboutconvertingtheoldschoolhouseintoyourhome? JL:Someofthisisdescribedinabookthatisstillinprint,andisakindof autobiography. Icannotgiveyouacopyyoucangetitsomewhere. I wrote thebook twentyyearsago.ItiscalledConfessionsofanOriginalSinner. (TheHistorical Commissionhasacopyof ConfessionsofanOriginalSinneraswellasDr.Lukacs PhiladelphiaPatriciansandPhilistines:19001950.) NL: IlovethetitleConfessionsofanOriginalSinner. JL:Itisnotreallyanautobiography.ItincludeshowIcametoliveinSchuylkill Township.Asyouknow,IwasborninEurope.IcametothiscountrywhenIwas23.I wasborninacity,butforsomeoddreasonIalwayswantedtoliveinthecountry.I achievedthisbecausemyfirstwifewhodied Ihadtwowiveswhodiedherein Phoenixville theyareburiedtogether. Now Ihavemy thirdwife,now outshopping. MyfirstwifewasthedaughterofaprominentPhiladelphialawyer.By accident,itwas coincidental,hisfamilywerethefirstsettlers,firstwhitesettlers,inSchuylkillTownship, then CharlestownTownship.Herancestor,JamesAnderson hecamefromScotlandin 1707,hecameherein1713hemarriedapreachersdaughter.Theyeloped. NL:Theresascandalforyou!

2 JL: Theyeloped. HebuiltalogcabinonwhatinstillcalledAndersonPlace.Itisnow calledAndersonFarm.ThereareseveralbuildingsonAndersonFarm,apartfromthe newbuildings(houses).Thereisanenclavethereofabout15acreswhichcannotbe changed.Thosebuildings.Thesmallestbuildingwasbuiltonthefoundationsonthe original logcabin,byaccident.Anyhow,theAndersonFarm,AndersonPlace,remained inthepropertyofmyfirstfatherinlawuntil1955. Imarriedmywifein1953.Bothofusworked.Myfatherinlaw,averygenerousperson, gaveustheoldschoolhouse(135ValleyParkRoad)asaweddingpresent.Itwasin ruins.Myfatherinlawwouldhaverebuiltitforus.Mywifedidntwantthatfortwo reasons.My fatherinlawandmymotherinlawhadbeenseparatedforalongtime.The moreimportantreasonwasthatmyfatherinlawlovedtobuild. Ifhewouldhaverebuilt it,itwouldhavebeenhisway.Sowegotthemortgageandwerebuiltit.Wewerelucky inthis.Illtellyouinamomentwhy. Ihopethisisnotboring. NL:Notatall. JL:MyfatherinlawhadabrotherwhowasarearadmiralintheNavywhohadmultiple sclerosis.Myfatherinlawsoriginalideawastorebuildthehouseforhimtolivehere. Butthisnevercameaboutbecausehisbrother, Albert,decidedtostayinWashingtonin BethesdaNavalHospital. Sotherewasanewroofonthehouse,althoughthehousewasinruins. Nowmyfatherinlawhadaladyfriend.Manypeoplecriticizedher Iamverygrateful toherbecausesheintroducedmetomywife.AndyouseeAndersonPlacewasafarm butitwasalwaysinthefamily.Theyusedtocomeoutinthesummer,threeorfour times.ButmyfatherinlawwasseparatedfromhiswifethiswasbeforeIcameintothe picturehisfriendsaid,youshouldkeepthisforacountryresidence.Thisiswhy,in 1947,hebegantorebuildAndersonPlace. Hemadeagentlemansfarmoutofit,which,asyouknow,qualifiesforanenormoustax deduction,butmorethanthat,hehadsomuchinterestinfarmingthatthefarmbroke even.Butheputverymuchmoneyintoit. Thishebegantodoin1947.Imethimand myfuturewifeinlate1952sheandIweremarriedinMay1953.Wecameouton weekends.HelivedhereonweekendshehadanapartmentinPhiladelphia.Sometimes hecameoutforfourorfivedaysaweek. Illtellyouanotherthing:therewasnozoningin SchuylkillTownshipin 1955.They startedzoningaboutthattime.Thatiswhythefirstzoningsaidfiveacres,minimum. (Myfatherinlawsuggestedten acres,minimum.) Therewerenoroadsigns. NL:Noroadsigns?

3 JL: None.LocalpeopleknewitwasValleyParkRoad,buttherewerenoroadsigns. Wetookoutamortgageandbegan,withalittlemoney,torebuildtheschoolhouse,to makeithabitable.Thefactthatitwasclosetotheroaddidntbotherus,becausethere washardlyanytrafficthen.Thiswasaoneroomschoolhousethatfunctionedasaschool until1930.Theoriginalbellisstillupthere.Itwasapracticalhousetoplanbecauseit wassquare. Therewasnothingoutside,only grass,weeds,shrubs,trees.WemovedinMay1955.It tookaboutayeartorebuild.Itcost$15,000.Thisinvolvedthefurnace,hotandcold runningwater, electricity,everything. Beforewemovedouttherewasamurder.Haveyouheardaboutthemurder? NL:Ihaveheardaboutthemurder. JL:Therehavebeen severalmurdersonthisroad (ValleyParkRoad).Thisoneisstill notresolved.Theydidntfindthekiller.A girlinPhoenixvillewasbroughtouthere,and murderedhere,andherbodyputin theouthouse. Theouthousewas50yardsdownthe fieldfromtheschoolhouse,andthatiswheretheyfoundthemurderedgirl.Peopleare socuriousforweeksafterward,peopledroveouttoseewhereshewasmurdered.The policehadfoundherbody,butnoonefoundwhokilledher. Anyway,thatiswhenwestartedtorebuildthehouse.WemovedinattheendofMay 1955.Therewasstillverymuch worktobedone.
th OnthesecondofJuly itwasveryhot,itwasover90degrees theJuly4 weekend, myfatherinlawsuddenlydied.Hewasonly62.

NL:62! JL:Yes.Hehadastroke,inhissleep. Becauseofthefamilytradition,butalsobecauseoflaw,thefarmreallybelongedtohis oldestsonafterhedied.Hewas,however thissoundsworsethanitwas thesonwas inpartincompetentbecauseofmentalproblems,thoughnotseriousones.Hewasin hospitalforalongtime.Buthealsolivedhere. Butthenitwasdiscoveredthatmyfatherinlaw,withalargeincome,hadincometax debts.Theydiscoveredthistwoweeksafterhedied.Thepersonwhodiscoveredthiswas theownerof ThePhiladelphiaInquirerstillalive,Annenberg. Annenbergdislikedto saytheleastmyfatherinlawbecausemyfatherinlaw,whenhewastheDirectorof PublicSafety inPhiladelphia,hadAnnenbergsfatherjailed. Annenbergsfatherhadthreatenedpeoplewith agun.Myfatherinlawhelpedputhimin jail.Butthiswasabout20yearsbefore1955.

AnnenbergwhoownedThePhiladelphiaInquirer startedacampaignagainstmyfather inlawwhen someonesquealedaboutthisincometaxthing. Thisinvolvedthe magnificentherd thatmadethefarmselfsufficient,andtractorsandeverything,butnot therealestate.Notthehouses.My motherinlawcouldhaveboughtitshehadmoney HelenandIcouldhaverunthefarmandJoe,herbrother,couldhavelivedthere. Sothefarmhadtobesoldforabout$1,000anacre.$156,000,withallthebuildings. Fortunately,themortgagewasinourname.Ifourfatherinlawwouldhavegivenittous, wewouldhavelostourplace.So,wedidntlosethehouse.Thehousewasatypicalone roomschoolhouseplot,oneacre. Iwasabletobuy sevenmoreacres.$300.00anacreor somethinglikethat. Weaddedtoittheremychildrenwereborn.Iwillshowyoua guestbookgoingbackto1952. Mr.LeonardSassoboughtthefarm.Hehadchildren.Ithinkhewasdivorcedfromhis firstwife.Heseldom cameouthere.Then heremarriedandhehadfivechildrenfrom hissecondwife.Hiswidowisstillaliveandafriendofours. Thisplacewasonlyoneof hisproperties.Hegavetohissixchildren. Afewyearsagothesixchildrendecidedtosellit.IwasontheTownshipPlanning Commission,andIknewthehistory of it.(Icanshowyoupicturesandallthat.) Developerscame136acres,putinhousesandmakealotofmoney,breakingthezoning. Well,wetoldthemthatyoucandothat,butitwilltakeyou15yearstobreakthezoning, becausewewillfightit,andyourmoneywillgotolawyers.Thishashappenedto developers.Butyouhavetherighttodevelopit,ifyoufulfillthetownshiprequirements, usetheminimum2.3acres.Theyagreed.Andeventuallythiswashappening.Thereare 36houseson135acres,whichisthebestwecouldget.ThatisthestoryofAnderson Farm. NL:Fabulous. Canyoutellmealittlebitmoreabouttheschoolhouseitself?Didyouhaveanarchitect whocamein? JL:Practicallynot.Wediditourselves. Thereisaplaqueontheschoolhouse,whichiswrong. NL:ItsaysSundaySchoolorsomethinglikethat JL: Itwasatownshipschool thetownshipwassmall andtheschoolhousewasbuilt in1840.Theoriginalbellisstillinthebelfry.Itworkedasaoneroomschooluntil1930, whentheSchuylkillElementarySchoolwasbuilt.In1973therewasahousetour in ChesterCounty andpeoplecametoseethehouse.Wehadthreeladieswhohadgoneto thatschool.Theysignedmy guestbook.

5 Werebuiltitourselves.Wetooksomepiecesoffurnitureifwehadknownwhatwas goingonwecouldhavetakenlotsmore.Thiswasbeforethegovernmentstartedthesuit. ThisisintheConfessions NL:Illhavetogetthatbook JL:Weclearedandclearedandclearedandaddedtothehouse.Weaddedafine screenedporchwhereweusedtohavedinnerinthesummersoutside.Weaddedthat.We addedandaddedandaddedandthenin1968,Iaddedalibrary,whichafriendofmine, anarchitect,alsointhetownship,designed.IneededalibraryIneededtoworkthere. Twoyearslatermywifediedoflungcancer. Ihadadaughterwhowastwoyearsold. NL:Adaughtertwoyearsold? JL:Atthattime,yes.FortunatelyIfoundaverygood housekeeper.FouryearslaterI marriedmysecondwife,whohadfourchildren.Westilladdedaroomforoneofher children,butthetrafficwasgettingworseandworse.Thereisastonewallaroundthe house.A stonemasonbuiltitin1956,andIwasthehelper. Buttheroadwastoocloseto thehouse.Mychildrengrewup,herchildrengrewup,andtheymovedaway.Thehouse wastoobigforus. Ihadthesesixacres.Iconvincedmywife itwasnteasy tobuildahousehere. That tookusfourorfiveyears.Wehadtohaveadrivewayandallofthatworkoverthecreek. Isubdivided. Thehousewasthreeacres,thehousethatyoupasswhenyoucomeinis threeacres.Isoldthat. Andthenwebuiltthishousebetween1981and1984andmoved insoIhavebeenhere21years. NL:Whodesignedthishouse?Didyoudesignityourself? JL:Yes,yes.Ihadhelpbecausemywifewasverygoodaboutthis,andheroldfather wasalsoanarchitect.Wemadeafewmistakesyoucanseeoneofthemrighthere.(We areinDr.Lukacslibrary.)YouseethatIhadplannedastovehere,butIforgotthatthere wasagreatbeamcomingup.Soyouseethatthebigpipehastogocrooked. Oneinterestingthingisthereservoirhere.Thisisoneofthereasonsthatwebuilthere wehaveaviewofthewater. ItseemsthattheAndersonpropertyiswheretheBritish crossedandchasedWashingtonsarmybacktoPhiladelphia.Itseemsthatinthemiddle coloniesthiswasthewesternmostpointwheretheBritish were.They defeated WashingtonatBrandywine,theycameup,muchwhereRoute 202istoday,andthey wentthrough whatisnowPhoenixville,crossedthecreek,wentdownwhere Conshohockenwouldbetoday,foughtanotherbattle,andoccupiedPhiladelphia. SothatisbrieflythestoryofAndersonFarm.

6 NL:Onanothertopic:YoumentionedthatyouwereonthePlanningCommission.Were youactiveinothergroups,too? JL:No,Iamnotapoliticalperson.Myfirstwifecamefromhere.Itisinthatbook,ina chaptercalledDwelling. Shewenttotownshipmeetings. OneSeptemberin1968shecamehomedejected. Shesaidthatthey arechangingthe nameofthetownshiptoValleyForgeTownshipbecausetheythoughtitwouldbringin moremoney,moredevelopment.Nowalotofpeopleareagainstdevelopment butnot then! Areferendumisrequiredtochangethenameofthetownship.Wedecidedtofight it.Iknewsomethingofthehistoryofthetownship,soIspokeupoccasionally. The peoplewhowerebehindthechangehadtelevision,hadmoney.Wespentlessthan $100.00.TherewasnoXerox.Imimeographedflyers.Themostimportantthingwas thatwestarted mywifestarted telephoningpeople.Shesaid,Listen,comeoutand vote,thisisimportant.Theywanttochangethenameofthetownshipyoumay know whytheywantthat. Theywanttobringinthisandthat,andsoforth. Oh,wedidntknowwehadachance!peoplewouldsay. Wewonby58%. ThenthetownshipaskedmetojointhePlanningCommission.Iserved for32years. I resignedtwoyearsagoforthreereasons. One:Iamtooold.Second: when IresigneditseemedasthoughIwouldbeawayalot. Third:theworkofthe PlanningCommissionhaschanged.ThePlanningCommissionisanadvisorybody. Theyplan. Theirrecommendationsgotothesupervisors.In32yearswehavehadhardly any conflictswiththeSupervisors. Sometimesthesupervisorsthemselvesweredivided. Thereweresomewhowanteddevelopment.Now wehaveatownshipengineerwhoisan excellentman,hedoesalotofthejob,andinmeetingsweoften only havetodealwith verysmall technical things.Theygavemeaverynicefarewellpartyandabeautiful plaque. NL:Whatprojectswereyouparticularlyinvolvedinovertheyears? JL:WefoughtthebigFernleighproject,whichwelostbyonevote. TheFernleys boughtthisbigproperty around1932,about265acres,buttheydidnotlivethere. They haditforinvestment. TheFernley childreninheritedmuchmoney.Theirlawyercameto themin1975andsaidthatyoucanmakealotofmoneyonthisifyoubreakthezoning. Theywantedtoputin1200houses. Legallytheycouldhaveputinabout130. Soaftermanyyearswecompromised.Theyputin360houses. Andwhogotrich the lawyers!Wemighthavebeatenthemdowntothe160. Iwasbitteraboutthat.Weformedacommittee,foughtit,delayedit.Sowiththis Fernleighstory asmyammunition,I talkedtotheSassochildren.Isaidthatyoucanhave morehouses,butitwilltakeyou15years,anditwilltakeyoualotofmoney. NL:IthinkHermanJohnwasinvolvedwith theFernleigh project.

JL: Yes,HermanJohnwasverygood.Weworkedhandinhand.Therearesomepeople therestill Norman Vutz,whoischairmanofthesupervisors,anexcellentman.Ted Ryan,whoisnowretiring,heismyage.Wewereinallofthesethingstogether.And sinceIwasolder,andoutspoken,somepeoplethoughtthatIhadmoreinfluencethanI had.IttookthemsometimetofindoutthatIdidnothavethatmuchinfluenceatall. NL:Yourreputationprecededyou. JL: Well,isthatabadthing? Buttherealwayswerepeoplewhowantedtogetonthe BoardofSupervisorswhowerefordevelopments. Sowehadtothinkandthinkwho shouldrun. Butafter32years NL:Thatsalongtime JL:Yes,yes. NL:Youhavebeenverydedicatedtothetownship JL:Well,itwasnotdifficult.ThePlanningCommissionmeetsonly onceamonth. Buta lotofthingshappenduringthatmonth NL:Ithastobethatway JL: Yes,yes.Remember,wehadtodefeatafewpeoplewhowereincahootswith the bigdevelopersandtheirattorneys.Inmanycasesitworked.Inthistownshipwewona fewbattlesbutwelostthewar. NL:Lostthewar? JL:Well,wedohaveallthisdevelopment. NL:Butwasthatnotinevitable? JL:Almost.ButlookwhatIjusttoldyouaboutFernleigh.Whenzoningbeganin1955 therewasnozoningbeforethen nobodywasinterestedinthisarea.TheClothierscame outherebecauseoffoxhunting.Theyboughtbeautifulland.ThePickeringHunt, originally,waswheretheLedbetterslive.(125ValleyParkRoad) Therewasstillhunting hereinthe1950s.AndthenthePickeringHunthadagoodplaceonCreekRoadthatwas theclubhouse.Andnowitisfatherwest. TherewasJoseph Ewing,helivedinthehousewhereMr. Pasqualelives.Thathousehas aninterestinghistory.

8 NL:Whichhouseisthis? JL:WhereMr.Pasqualelives(ValleyParkRoad).Therewasaman,whyhelivedhere,I dontknow.HisnamewasProfessorLowe,andhewasaballoonistwith captive balloons.Observatory balloons.HesoldtheideatoLincolnandtotheUnionArmyto haveaU.S.Army Balloon Corps,sotheycouldgoupandseewheretheConfederategun placementswere.Theywerehighenoughsotheycouldnotbeshotat. Butthe Confederatesfooledthem.Theyputoutonthefieldstiltedlogsthatlookedlikedcannon. Sotheydismissedtheballooncorps.ThenewspaperscalledthemQuakerguns,because theywerenotrealguns. NL:Whatawonderfulstory! JL:Therewasfoxhunting,too,inthistownshipuntil1957or1958. Letmetellyouanother thing.Itbecameabitfashionablewhenwemovedouthere. Many peoplecommutedintoPhiladelphiatheyworkedthere.Theyeitherdrovethereor theytookthetrain.YoucouldtakethePaolitrain,oryoucouldtaketheReadingtrain.I wouldsaynow thatonly2%ofthepeopleworkinPhiladelphia.Itwasmucheasiertogo toPhiladelphiathen.Peoplewenttotheorchestra.Ontheexpresswayyoucouldbein Philadelphiain45minutes.IseldomgotoPhiladelphianow. Thetownshipdidnotgetsuburbanizeduntilabout20yearsago.Partlybecausewehavea goodgovernment.PartlybecauseValleyForgeParkwaslikeagreencushion.WhatI meanisthatallthedevelopmentwason theothersideofValley ForgePark. Many peoplewerestupidandsnobbish,astheystillare,andtheythoughtthat,oh,Phoenixville isamilltown,whowantstolivenearPhoenixville? Soitdidnotgetsuburbanizeduntilabout20yearsago.Yousee, therearetheseplanning commissionsnottheSchuylkillTownshipPlanningCommission,nottheChester CountyPlanningCommission,buttheDelawareValleyPlanningCommission.They werefoundedbythegovernment,bythestateIrememberabout1975 theyproduceda bigthingaboutwhatsgoingtohappeninthisneighborhood,withMylarmapsasserting thatby2005thepopulationwillbe100,000.All theseexperts,theypredictwhattothem seemstobegoingon.Noneofthishashappened. But,wedidbecamesuburbanized. Andthatprobablywasinevitable,butitcamesomewhatslower. NL:Therearesofewlargepropertiesleft. JL:Twoorthree.Three.Threelargeproperties.Oneofthemisownedby childrenofa goodfriendof mine. Oneisabout62acres.Oneisabout170.Thethirdisthegolf course. NL:Letssee.Iknowthatyouareahistorian.Doyouspecializeinanyparticulararea ofhistory?

9 JL:Ispecializein differentareas.The townshiphistoryandallofthisisanamateur interestofmine. Herewearein thelibrary. Behindyouarowof about400books theyareallabout PhiladelphiaandChesterCounty.IalsowroteahistoryofPhiladelphiafrom1900to 1950. SomebodygavemeonceanoffprintofmyworksfromGoogle.Buttherewerea lotmissingwrong.soinotherwords,donttakeitforgrantedwhatsinGoogle. NL:Anddoyouteachalso? JL:No,Iamretired. NL:Wherewereyouteaching? JL: MostlyItaught almostfor47yearsinaCatholicgirlscollegeChestnutHill inPhiladelphia.Ihadmanyvisitingprofessorships.Itaughtelsewhere,too,butnever movingaway.Mylastjob,mylastteachingposition,wasattheUniversityof Pennsylvania.Iwasforcedtoretirein1996.ButIamwritingbooks. NL:Anythingelseyouwouldliketosharefortherecord? JL:No,thissumsupwhatIknow. NL:Areyouoptimisticaboutthefutureofthetownship? JL:Iamaverystrangecombination.IampessimisticabouteverythingbutIenjoy lifeintheshortrun. ItisinterestingaboutwhatishappeninginPhoenixville.Phoenixvilleishavingalittlere birth.NowIamskepticalaboutitbecausewhatcountsishowmanypeoplecomeand willactuallyliveandsettlethere.Justbecauseyouhaveacheeseshopandsoforth.that isnotenough.Pennsylvaniaisrelativelyaconservativestatebuttheaverage Pennsylvanianmovesevery47months. NL:47months? JL: Thatistheaverage.LookatAnderson Farm. Idontknowasinglepersonwholives there. Iknowmytwoneighborsintheneighborhood andnowthatspracticallyall.I usedtoknoweverybody.Well,almosteverybody.ButIguessthatalsocomeswhenyou getolder. Peopledieormoveaway. Well,Icouldshowyoualotofthings.Ihavephotographsinalbumsfromwayback,the waythingslooked. ButIcanshowyoutheguestbook.Thatmaybeofsomeinterest.

10 NL:Iwouldlovetoseethatbook.

(LookingatGuestBook) JL: YouseeAndersonPlace,1713, onthecover. Myfatherinlawstartedthisguestbookwhenhestartedtoliveouthere,in1947.You see,someonedrewapicture NL:Thatsapictureof yourfatherinlaw? JL:Yes,yes. Andthen,asItoldyou,in1955,webuilttheschoolhouse. NL:Thereitis,OldPickeringSchoolhouse. JL: Youseethefirstentrywell,yousee,somebodycame.Hereismysons christening.Alotofthesepeoplearedead.Itgoesonandonandonandonandon.I hadsomefamouspeoplevisitme,andtheyareallinhere. NL:Whatawonderfulrecord!
th JL:Onmy40 birthday mywifewasoftenill,butshewasbetterthatyearandwe owedalotofpeople.Igaveabig40thbirthdaypartyatthePickeringHunt.

NL:Lookatthis!RequestthepresenceofyourcompanyonFriday,the31of January, atthePickeringHuntClub.

th JL:My40 birthday.Thesewerethepeoplewhocame.Many ofthemaredeadnow.

NL:Dontyouhaveimagesinyourmindoftheeventsasyoulookthroughthis? JL:Oh,yes.AndsomeofthepeopleIcantreadtheirnames! Andthenmy wifedied,andthesewerethepeoplewhocametothefuneral. NL:Oh,look.Thepageisedgedinblack.Agreatprivilegetohaveknownandloved her. JL:Oneofherschool friendswrotethat.Itgoesonandonandon.Afterthattherewas ahousetour, Itoldyoupeoplevisitedtheschoolhouse.Thisincludedallkindsof people.Therewerethreeoldladieswhoactuallyhadgonetothatschool.

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11 NL:Threeladieswhohadgonetothatschoolcametotheopenhouse.Thatwas1973. Alotofpeoplecamethroughhere.Lookatthis! JL: Itwashardtoknowwhattodowithallthosepeople. NL:Wheredidallthosepeoplepark? JL:Ontheroad. Andthiswasmy weddingtomysecondwife.Mysecondwedding. NL:Ilovethewayyouhavethepagesoutlinedincolors.Thisisbeautiful. JL: Thisismysecondwedding.Mydaughterwas6yearsoldthen NL:Lookatthis.Annemarie. JL:Yes,yes. Therearemoreandmorethings HilaryandBill thatismystepdaughter theyweremarriedin thathouse.Hereistheir wedding. Otherthings.bookpartiesorwhateveritis,youknow. NL:Somethinghappenedhere publicationpartyof Philadelphia:19001950. Imust getthatbook. JL:Thesepeoplecameafamouspianist. NL:Look! Hewrote,OWhatabeautifulmorning,Owhatabeautifulday JL:Yes,yes.HereisanotherbooksigningpartyIhad. Andthenin1984wemovedintothishouse. (Locatedat129ValleyParkRoad) NL:Hereweare,PickeringClose. JL:Thisisthefirstpartywehad,in1985.Thisgoesonandonandonandonandonand on.Themusician cameagain! Oh,andItookthistoNewYorkwhenIpublishedabook,andthesewerepeopleinNew York. NL:Andthiswasyourpublisher? Doyouusethesamepublisherforallofyourbooks?

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12 JL:No,hesgone.Thispublisherisgone thosefirmsmergeandallthat.Doyouknow theGettyfamily?Well,thiswasAnnGetty who gaveapartyinherapartment,because sheknewthepublisher.Ihardlyknewher,butshesaidshehadanapartmentonFifth Avenueandthatwaswherethepartywas. Andnowmydaughterwasmarriedinthishousewellthereceptionwasinthishouse. Wehadtentsoutside.Thereweresomanypeoplethatwedidnttakesignatures,butwe havetheirnames. NL:NowheresheisAnnemarieandsheistheonewhosignedwayback. JL:Yes,yes. NL:ShewasmarriedinSt.PetersChurchintheGreatValley. JL:Hereisanotherbookparty,forConfessions...,Itoldyouaboutthat.Somebody wrotepoems. AndhereisanotherbookpartyTheEndoftheTwentiethCenturyanotherbook partyanotherbookparty.ThereisabookpartyinHungary,andItookthisGuestBook withme. NL:(reading)Andareallysuperbmeal,too!
th JL: AndthenIhadabigpartyonmy73rdbirthday.Itwassupposedtobeonmy70 birthday,buttherewasabigsnowstorm,sowehadtocancelatthelastminute.But again,thiswasthelist theydidntsign.AndthenIwentbacktomynativecityin th Hungaryonmy75 birthday,andbroughtthebookwithme.Peoplesignedit

NL: AndthisinHungary.GovernmentHouse? JL: WestayedatGovernmentHouse. NL:Veryimpressive. JL:Andnowcomesthenextsadthing.Stephaniesdeath. NL:Oh,my. JL:Yes,yes.Shelivedhere,shewasnotaprominentperson,but300peoplecametoher funeral. NL:Shemusthavebeenaveryspecialwoman.Verykind,maybe? JL:Shewasabeautiful andthoughtful woman. Thesepeoplecamebacktothehouse. Againthereistheblackborder.

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Wehadotherguests,andotherguests. NL:Youhaveentertainedallkinds! JL:ConradBlackisinthepaper,heisnowLordBlack,heisbringsuedfor5billion dollars! Butheisfriendofmine.HesCanadian. NL:OK!Hehasseriousmoney.Fivebillion!Whyishebeingsuedforsomuchmoney? JL:Actually,hessuedforonly52million. NL:Thatssomuchbetter! JL:Hehadthiscorporationandhewasaccusedoftakingalotofmoneyforhimselfand hiswife. JL:Thisismy recentwedding.A smallerwedding. NL:Wehaveallkindsofsadtimesandhappytimesrepresentedhere JL: Yes,yes.Thesadthingisthattherearenotmanypagesleft. NL: Therearenotmanypagesleft.Whatawonderfulwaytochroniclealife JL:Isntitnice? NL:Isntitnice?AndthecoversaysAndersonPlace,OldPickeringSchool,andthen PickeringPlace. JL:Ineedtohaveitrebound.Itisfallingapart. NL:Abeautifultribute. JL:Yes,yes. IcanshowourpicturesButthisinterviewisnotaboutme,itisaboutthe houseandthetownship. NL:Butitisaboutyou,too. JL:Ihavetheplaquehere.. NL:(reads)Inappreciationof35yearsofoutstandingserviceDr.John LukacsSincerededicationandspiritof volunteerism.Savingwhatisleftofthe old Anditissigned.thatisnice.

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JL:ThatwasveryniceYes,yes. NL:Niceandweighty,too!Substantial! JL:NowtheyhavetodosomethinglikethisforTedRyan.Heservedonthetownship for31years. NL:Thatisasizablecommitmentonhispart,too,thatsforsure. Thankyou,somuch,Dr.Lukacs!Itwasbeenarealpleasuretospendthistimewithyou.

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