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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

Dialogues with The Guru


Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal, 34th Pontiff (1912-1954 of the Sri Sharada Peetam, Sringeri! (Com"iled #$ Sri %! &rishnaswam$ '$er
So(r)e* htt"*++srisharada!)om+,-+,-!htm

These passages from the book "Dialogues with The Guru" provide answers to many nagging questions that trouble the individual as well as the society. While answering generic questions !ri "carya induces one to reflect over the true meaning of !anatama Dharma and application of its principles to modern life. These passages are translation of talks with #is #oliness !ri $handrasekhara %harati !wamigal compiled by !ri &. 'rishnaswamy (yer.
-d.aita!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 /he Sandh$a 0orshi"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!14 /r(e 1e.otion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!25 2ame and form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!31 3ate and 3ree 0ill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!34 /he 5tilit$ of 6od!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!44 /he Means of 7a""iness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!54 689SS-%: 93 S-2S&%'/ 09%1S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;9

Table of Contents

Advaita
-n elderl$ gentleman, Mr! %!, who had some a)<(aintan)e with the =edanta literat(re, on)e a""roa)hed 7is 7oliness and said*

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

I have tried to understand the "dvaita philosophy but numerous doubts and difficulties keep on cropping up now and then which ( don)t find it possible to solve by myself or with the help of the scholars whom ( have met. ( shall be very grateful if your #oliness will be pleased to initiate me into the "dvaita-*edanta yourself. His Holiness: ' shall )ertainl$ #e .er$ glad to do so, if ' )an do it! B(t it is <(ite #e$ond m$ )om"eten)e! Devotee: ( am sure +our #oliness is not serious. (f +our #oliness professes incompetence to teach "dvaita ( do not see how anybody else in the world can claim to teach it. HH: 0hat )an we do> 't is the nat(re of the s(#?e)t! /he 5"anishad itself "ro)laims @7e who )laims to know, knows not@! /he "dvaita is not something to #e learntA therefore it )annot #e a thing to #e ta(ght! 't is essentiall$ something to #e realised #$ oneself! ' )annot therefore (ndertake to tea)h $o(! 'f, howe.er, in the )o(rse of $o(r =edanti) st(dies $o( want an$ "assage to #e eB"lained either in a teBt or in a )ommentar$, ' shall )ertainl$ tr$ m$ #est to eB"lain it! ' )an th(s hel" $o( onl$ to (nderstand the signifi)an)e of words or of senten)es whi)h are )om"osed of words, or of ideas whi)h are )on.e$ed #$ senten)es! B(t it is im"ossi#le to )on.e$ to $o( a )orre)t idea of what "dvaita is, for it is neither a matter for words nor is it a mental )on)e"t! 't is, on the other hand, "(re eB"erien)e whi)h trans)ends all these! S(""ose ' do not know what sweetness is! Can $o( des)ri#e sweetness in words s(ffi)ientl$ eB"ressi.e to )on.e$ an idea of sweetness to me> D: That is certainly impossible. HH: Sweetness )an #e known onl$ when ' "(t some sweet thing on m$ tong(e! 't is im"ossi#le of #eing eB"lained in words or of #eing learnt from another "erson! 't has to #e

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

realised in dire)t eB"erien)e! 'f a thing so familiar to (s as sweetness trans)ends all eB"ression, how m()h more trans)endental will #e the tr(th of "dvaita, whi)h is the s("reme sweetness! ' am reminded in this )onne)tion of a gentleman who )ame here sometime #a)k! 7e was a %rahmana #(t his training had all #een on the @modern lines@ so that he was a %rahmana onl$ in nameA and thanks to )ir)(mstan)es, he had attained a "rominent "osition in "(#li) life! 't was his first .isit to this "la)e! 7e seemed to ha.e #een .er$ m()h en)hanted with the )r$stal )lear water of the ri.er, the nat(ral s)ener$ all aro(nd, the "ea)ef(l atmos"here and other things! 0hen he )ame to me, he eB"ressed the delight he eB"erien)ed and added @0h$, it is brahmananda). 7e e.identl$ meant, of )o(rse, that it was like brahmananda the #liss of %rahman, the -#sol(te! 't str()k me that, in s"ite of his training and ha#its so di.or)ed from o(r time-hono(red religion, this idea that brahmananda was the highest of all anandas and that, therefore, that alone )o(ld #e (sed as a simile to eB"ress a delight whi)h defies ade<(ate eB"ression was still (n-eradi)ated from his mind! ' mention this in)ident to show that, e.en in )ommon "arlan)e when we find words wanting to eB"ress an intense sens(o(s "leas(re, we resort to brahmananda alone as an ade<(ate or eB"ressi.e simile! /hat means that it is (ni.ersall$ re)ognised that the ananda of %rahman whi)h is the same as "dvaita is #e$ond all words! -sk me not therefore to tea)h $o( "dvaita, for it is an im"ossi#ilit$! B(t $o( ma$ ask me to (nra.el for $o( some grammati)al )onstr()tion or to sol.e some of $o(r do(#ts in the logi) of the s$stem! /hat is the #est that ' )an do for $o(! D: ( now quite understand the standpoint of +our #oliness. %ut ( do not think ( shall be ,ustified in troubling +our #oliness to solve doubts in grammar synta- or logic. HH: 't does not matter in the least! 'f the sol.ing of e.en s()h a do(#t takes (s nearer to a realisation of "dvaita, it is

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

worth doing! D: %ut ( have not brought any book with me now and ( am unable to state from memory any of the passages which ( found difficult to understand. HH: 0e shall reser.e it then for some other o))asion! 0e ma$ now )onsider some to"i) for whi)h no referen)e to #ooks is needed! D: "s +our #oliness pleases. HH: 3irst, we shall tr$ to (nderstand what is meant #$ "dvaita! 7ow ha.e $o( (nderstood it> D: ( have heard it e-plained thus. dvi means two dvita means the state of being two that is two-ness. Dvaitam is the same as dvita! "dvaita is therefore that thing in which there is no two-ness or duality. HH: ,(ite So! 0hat do $o( )all that something in whi)h there is no two-ness> D: (t is %rahman. HH: Perfe)tl$ right! -nd #$ %rahman - $o( mean that #asi) "rin)i"le of realit$ wherefrom the (ni.erse deri.es its eBisten)e, whereon it rests and wherein it disa""ears! D: +es! HH: 8et (s ignore the word %rahman and its f(ll signifi)an)e for a moment! :o( gi.e the name of "dvaita to the "rin)i"le whi)h is res"onsi#le for the )reation, maintenan)e and dissol(tion of the (ni.erse> D: /uite so. HH: :o( mean then that there is no two-ness in the "rin-

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

)i"le> D: +es! HH: 'n other words, $o( mean that that "rin)i"le is one and one onl$> D: $ertainly. HH: /o eB"lain it again, $o( mean that there are no two s()h "rin)i"les> D: +es. HH: -nd $o( )laim that o(r s$stem of tho(ght is rightl$ )alled "dvaita as it en(n)iates the do)trine of the non-eBisten)e of two s()h "rin)i"les> D: /uite so. HH: /hat is all right! 2ow we shall )onsider for a moment the other s$stems of tho(ght, #e it Christianit$ or 'slam, *isisht"dvaita or dvaita Tarka or +oga #e it an$ s$stem of tho(ght whi)h admits the eBisten)e of a "rin)i"le whi)h is res"onsi#le for the )reation, the s(stenan)e and the dissol(tion of the (ni.erse! 1o an$ of these s$stems e.er "ro)laim that there are two s()h "rin)i"les or do the$ all agree in "ro)laiming that there is and )an #e onl$ one s()h "rin)i"le> D: 0o system postulates any plurality in God. There may be and is plurality among the devils who are as much created beings as ourselves but certainly none in the !upreme Godhead. #e is ever 1ne. HH: ,(ite so! 2o s$stem therefore en(n)iates an$ d(alit$ so far as 6od is )on)erned> D: (t is so.

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: /hen, e.er$ s$stem, inasm()h as it negati.es the eBisten)e of two 6ods is entitled to gi.e the name of "dvaita to the 6od en(n)iated #$ it and to a""ro"riate the same name for itself also! 'f so, what is the ?(stifi)ation for $o(r mono"olising the name "dvaita s"e)iall$ to $o(r 6od and to $o(r "arti)(lar s$stem of tho(ght> D: ( pray that +our #oliness may be pleased to e-plain it. HH: /here is another diffi)(lt$! :o( know that in the "dvaita "hiloso"h$ a "ra)ti)al saguna %rahman and a trans)endent nirguna %rahman are #oth en(n)iated! D: +es! HH: 2one of the other s$stems a))e"ts similar distin)tion and the$ de)line to )on)ei.e of %rahman as twofold> D: +es! HH: 't wo(ld seem therefore that all other s$stems, eB)e"t $o(r own, en(n)iate a single s("reme "rin)i"le and that in $o(r s$stem onl$ there is an en(n)iation of two s("reme "rin)i"les, the saguna and the nirguna! Stri)tl$ s"eaking, therefore, it wo(ld seem that all s$stems are e<(all$ entitled to )all themsel.es "dvaita and that, if an$ s$stem )an #e dis<(alified from (sing that name #$ reason of en(n)iating "l(ralit$ in 6od, it is )ertainl$ $o(r s$stem onl$ that )an #e so dis<(alified! /he "dvaita s$stem is th(s not onl$ not eB)l(si.el$ entitled to )all itself "dvaita, #(t is not entitled at all to )all itself #$ that name! 7ow do $o( then )all "dvaita> D: The answer for this also must come only from +our #oliness. HH: 2ot ne)essaril$, for $o( $o(rself )an gi.e the answer <(ite easil$! D: #ow2

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: 6enerall$ s"eaking, a name gets atta)hed to a "arti)(lar thing onl$ if some attri#(te whi)h is denoted #$ that name ha""ens to #e the eB)l(si.e attri#(te of that thing! 'f an attri#(te is )ommon #etween a "arti)(lar thing and se.eral others, that "arti)(lar thing )annot #e )alled #$ the name whi)h )onnotes that attri#(te! D: $ertainly! HH: - name is therefore gi.en to a "arti)(lar thing when that thing has an eB)l(si.e )hara)teristi) of its own whi)h is asso)iated with that name! D: /uite so. HH: 2ow, what is the eB)l(si.e )hara)teristi) of o(r s$stem of "dvaita "hiloso"h$ whi)h is a#sent in all other s$stems> D: ( suppose the doctrine of 3aya. HH: ,(ite soA and its im"li)ations! D: What are the implications2 HH: Before we go to that <(estion, tell me what do $o( (nderstand #$ 3aya> D: ( have heard it e-plained as the differentiating principle which is responsible for diversity in the universe. HH: 'n the (ni.erse of matter or in the (ni.erse of so(ls> D: (n both. 3aya is the prime cause of all diversity in the ob,ective as well as the sub,ective universe. HH: /hen, #(t for 3aya, there )an #e no di.ersit$ at all> D: ( have heard it so said.

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: Matter, inert as it is, will ha.e no inde"endent eBisten)e of its own, #(t for 3aya> D: +es! HH: Similarl$, ' s(""ose, we, indi.id(als as we are now, will ha.e no inde"endent eBisten)e of o(r own, #(t for 3aya> D: (t would seem so. HH: 'f we do not en(n)iate an$ s()h differentiating "rin)i"le as 3aya, matter-inert matter-will "ersist in ha.ing an eBisten)e of its own )onsistentl$ with 6od the S("reme Prin)i"le, ?(st as the m(d from whi)h a "ot is made )laims )onsistent eBisten)e with the "otter who (ses it for making the "ot> D: (t is so. (n some other systems they assign to God only the status of the potter and enunciate a primary substance be it pradhana or the atoms or any other thing as the material out of which the universe is made. HH: B(t there are some s$stems whi)h den$ the inde"endent eBisten)e of matter and whi)h en(n)iate that 6od is 7imself the material )a(se as well as the effi)ient )a(se! /hat is, 7e is as m()h the m(d as the "otter! D: /uite so. ( think such an idea is formulated by the *isishtadvaitins. HH: 't finds a "la)e in some other s$stems also! /ho(gh the$ )on)ei.e of 6od as the material as well as the effi)ient )a(se of the (ni.erse, the$ do not grant that 6od is the material )a(se of indi.id(al so(ls, for so(ls are not matterA nor is 6od the effi)ient )a(se of s()h so(ls, for so(ls are not @made@! D: ( understand!

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: /hen, #$ "ost(lating that the indi.id(al so(ls are not made #(t eBist from time #eginningless, the$ assign to them an eBisten)e, an inde"endent eBisten)e, )o-e.al with 6od 7imself! D: 0o doubt so for they call all souls eternal. HH: B(t so do we! /he differen)e #etween o(r s$stem and theirs lies not in as)ri#ing eternal eBisten)e to the indi.id(al so(l, #(t in their as)ri#ing to it eternal inde"endent eBisten)e as all indi.id(al so(l and in o(r as)ri#ing the eternalit$ to %rahman and den$ to the so(l an$ eBisten)e inde"endent of %rahman! D: (t is so. HH: 2ow then, we find that there are some s$stems whi)h "ost(late the eBisten)e of 6od as the S("reme Being and at the same time grant the inde"endent eBisten)e of matter and also the inde"endent eBisten)e of indi.id(al so(ls! 'n some other s$stems, 6od is )on)ei.ed of as the S("reme Being as well as the "rimar$ material )a(se of the (ni.erse of matter, there#$ den$ing to inert matter an inde"endent eBisten)e of its own, #(t )on)eding s()h an eBisten)e to indi.id(al so(ls! D: +es. HH: 't is onl$ in the "dvaita s$stem that matter is denied eBisten)e inde"endent of 6od and the indi.id(al so(l also is denied eBisten)e inde"endent of 6od! D: /uite so. HH: 't will #e )lear now that the disting(ishing )hara)teristi), whi)h eB)l(si.el$ #elongs to the "dvaita s$stem, is its en(n)iation of the non-eBisten)e of the (ni.erse of matter or of indi.id(al so(ls inde"endent of 6od whi)h is )alled #$ (s

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

%rahman! D: 0o doubt it is so. HH: 't m(st #e then this disting(ishing )hara)teristi) whi)h is res"onsi#le for the name "dvaita, whi)h o(r s$stem has a""ro"riated to itself and #$ whi)h it is generall$ known to all! D: %ut how does the name "dvaita convey the idea of this distinctive characteristic2 HH: :o( $o(rself said that "dvaita signified a negation of d(alit$! D: %ut +our #oliness pointed out that no religion in the world postulated a duality in God2 HH: ,(ite so! :o( )ommitted the mistake of (nderstanding negation of two-ness in 6od@ to mean @negation of two 6ods@, there#$ gi.ing room for m$ f(rther <(estions! 'f "dvaita meant negation of two 6ods, o(r s$stem has no sole right at all to a""ro"riate that name to itselfA #(t, if it means on the other hand negation of an$ se)ond "rin)i"le inde"endent of 6od, we ha.e the sole right to mono"olise that name for o(r s$stem! 't is onl$ in the latter sense that o(r s$stem goes #$ the name of "dvaita! D: ( now understand the significance of the name4 but there is 3aya the differentiating principle which is responsible for the diversity in the universe of matter and of individual souls. !urely that is a second principle. HH: 2o! /hat )annot #e a se)ond "rin)i"le! =iewing it as the sakti or "ower or "otentialit$ of %rahman, it )an ha.e no inde"endent eBisten)e of its own a"art from the sakta the S("reme Person or %rahman! 3rom the still higher stand"oint of a#sol(te tr(th, it has no eBisten)e at all! 3aya is the name

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

gi.en to it #e)a(se it is not (ya ma , #(t seems to #e, #orrowing its seeming realit$ from the eternal .erit$ )alled %rahman! D: The doctrine of 3aya is a bugbear to many of the modem scholars and they even go to the length of saying that it is really a weak point in the otherwise sound system of "dvaita. HH: 't will #e well if it "ro.es so m()h of a #(g#ear that the modern s)holars lea.e "dvaita alone! /he "dvaita do)trine is en(n)iated from a "lane whi)h ordinar$ "eo"le )annot as"ire to for .er$ man$ more #irths to )ome! /he$ ha.e a#sol(tel$ no right to a""roa)h it, m()h less to sit in ?(dgement o.er it! -s at "resent sit(ated, most of (s are far, far #elow that stage! 3rankl$ s"eaking, it ma$ take inn(mera#le #irths for some of (s (who do not think of the so(l at all to attain e.en the stage of the $harvaka or materialist, who thinks that the so(l is no other than o(r "h$si)al #od$ itself! D: ( hope we are not so low down as that. The days of rank materialism are past and ( am sure we can claim to be astikas or believers. HH: ' am not so s(re a#o(t that! 'f $o( )onsider for a moment the signifi)an)e of the word astika ( feel s(re $o( will $o(rself hesitate #efore $o( )laim to #e one! -n astika is one who sa$s a thing is ("sti and a nastika is one who sa$s a thing is not (0asti ! S(""ose there is a .essel #efore me! Can a "erson sa$ that it is and another "erson at the same time sa$ it is not2 D: $ertainly not. (f the vessel is it is for both. HH: ,(ite so! S(""ose a man sa$s that the 7imala$a mo(ntain is, )an another man who has ne.er seen it sa$ that it is not2

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: #e can only say that he has never seen it. #e cannot deny its e-istence. HH: /hat is, in $o(r .iew, if a "erson sa$s that a thing eBists and if the eBisten)e of the thing is "atent to all or is .erifia#le #$ e.er$#od$, no other "erson )an "ossi#l$ sa$ that it does not eBist! D: /uite so. HH: /herefore, an honest differen)e of o"inion as regards the eBisten)e for a thing )an "ossi#l$ arise onl$ if that thing is not manifestl$ "er)ei.ed or is in)a"a#le of #eing .erified immediatel$! D: /uite so. HH: /hat there is a f(t(re #irth is a fa)t not e.ident to all and not )a"a#le of #eing .erified now! /hat there are regions of eB"erien)e other than this earth is also a fa)t neither "atent nor )a"a#le of immediate .erifi)ation! Similarl$, the eBisten)e of 6od is not "atent to all, nor )an it #e .erified #$ o(r limited )a"a)it$ of "er)e"tion! D: 0o doubt so. HH: 0hen we )all a "erson an astika we do not merel$ mean that he sa$s that an$ "arti)(lar thing is4 nor, when we )all a "erson a na-stika do we merel$ mean that he sa$s that a "arti)(lar thing is not. 0e (se the term astika for one who asserts these three things* the eBisten)e of a f(t(re #irth, the eBisten)e of other lokas of eB"erien)e, and the eBisten)e of 6od! Similarl$, we (se the term nastika for one who denies the eBisten)e of these three! 2ow, )onsider for a moment the attit(de of the modern man, howe.er ed()ated he ma$ )laim to #e! 1oes his dail$ )ond()t #ear o(t that he #elie.es in a f(t(re #irth, a f(t(re loka or e.en in 6od> 0h$ does the )raCe for "leas(re in)rease da$ #$ da$ as if all en-

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

?o$ment m(st #e had now or ne.er> 7ow is the #elief in a f(t(re state of eB"erien)e )onsistent with the growing negle)t of Dharma> 0hat ?(stifi)ation is there for the in)rease in the n(m#er of 8aw Co(rts and %egistration 9ffi)es if the "eo"le #elie.e in 6od, the Dternal 0itness of all their transa)tions> 0hate.er "eo"le ma$ )hoose to sa$ in "(#li) and whate.er the$ ma$ think of themsel.es, ' am )on.in)ed that astikyam faith, is going down ra"idl$! -ll o(r "resent endea.o(rs m(st #e dire)ted towards a restoration and maintenan)e of "stikyam. ,(estions "osing as to whether the 5ltimate %ealit$ is one, two or one-and-a-half, ha.e no "ra)ti)al interest for the large ma?orit$ of (s! 0e ma$ therefore lea.e s()h <(estions for the "resent and interest o(rsel.es in the "ra)ti)e of o(r Dharma! D.er$#od$ knows that it is wrong to tell a lie! 2o#od$ has the slightest do(#t a#o(t it! -ll the same, falsehood is e.er on the in)rease! D.er$#od$ knows that it is wrong to )heat! -ll the same, )heating is the normal "ra)ti)e in modern life! 0hat is the "ra)ti)al (se of en(n)iating the a#stra)t tr(th of the -#sol(te %rahman to "eo"le who are not "re"ared to "(t into "ra)ti)e the elementar$ "rin)i"les of e.en !amanya Dharma 9rdinar$ 8aw> -fter se)(ring steadiness in !amanya Dharma and after "(rif$ing and <(alif$ing himself #$ the earnest "ra)ti)e of *isesha Dharma the S"e)ial 8aw, "res)ri#ed for him, a "erson attains the re<(isite standard of )om"eten)e to ena#le him to enter on the st(d$ of "dvaita! /he tenden)$ to negle)t the wholesome do)trine that =edanti) st(d$ is intended onl$ for the )om"etent is res"onsi#le for the )onf(sed thinking of modern da$s! D.en for sim"le )rafts, s()h as masonr$ or )ar"entr$, a "reliminar$ )o(rse of training is re<(ired #efore a "erson is allowed to handle the instr(mentsA #(t in the field of %rahma*idya, the s)ien)e of the Self, the highest and the most diffi)(lt of all s)ien)es, e.er$#od$ thinks himself )om"etent and entitled to st(d$ the s$stem of "dvaita and e.en to sit in

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

?(dgement o.er it! /his attit(de m(st go and m(st #e re"la)ed #$ earnest endea.o(r first to se)(re the ne)essar$ )om"eten)e! 'f we make an honest attem"t to se)(re that )om"eten)e #$ following im"li)itl$ the dire)tions of the sastras and of the 6(r(, the 8ord will g(ide (s along the "ath of "rogress, sol.e all o(r "ro#lems and do(#ts, free (s from all worr$ and tro(#le and lead (s on to the state of realisation of the "dvaita %ealit$, the tr(th and the #liss of the a#sol(te oneness of all in the (ndifferentiated %rahman!

The Sandhya Worship


- to(ring Dd()ational 9ffi)er on)e met 7is 7oliness and said, "( have occasions of being in constant touch with young boys mostly %rahmanas studying in schools which ( have to inspect. ( have found that even the boys who perform their sandhya do so more as a form than as real worship. ( shall be very grateful if +our #oliness would give me some valuable hints which ( could convey to them." His Holiness: ' am .er$ glad to see that $o( are not )ontent with mere offi)ial ro(tine of ins"e)tion #(t desire to (tilise the o))asion for the #etterment of the #o$s! 't will #e well if all ed()ationists, ins"e)ting offi)ers or tea)hers, realise that the$ ha.e #een entr(sted with the .er$ gra.e res"onsi#ilit$ of training (" $o(ng men in the most im"ressiona#le "eriod of their li.es! 'n m$ o"inion the$ are reall$ to #lame if the$ )onfine their attention onl$ to the "res)ri#ed teBt #ooks and negle)t the s"irit(al side of the $o(ng generation! D: ( always keep that end before me and ( don)t miss any opportunity of talking to the boys and giving them some useful advice. (t is mainly with a view to do that work better

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

that i request +our #oliness to give some practical suggestions. HH: D.en if the #o$s to whom $o( "ro"ose to )on.e$ s()h s(ggestions ma$ not #enefit #$ them, $o( will )ertainl$ #e #enefited! D: $ertainly! HH: :o( ma$ therefore, for the "resent, ignore the #o$s and ask s()h <(estions the answers to whi)h are likel$ to #e (sef(l to $o(! D: The first question which suggests itself to me is with reference to the sandhya worship. What is the deity or upasya devata in the sandhya worship2 HH: Before we )onsider that, "lease tell me what $o( (nderstand ordinaril$ #$ the sandhya worshi"> D: %y sandhya worship we mean the worship of the rising !un the setting !un or !un in the mid heavens. HH: ,(ite so! Com"rehensi.el$ s"eaking, $o( mean worshi" of the S(n> D: +es! HH: :o( tell me that sandhya is the worshi" of the S(n and $et $o( ask me what is worshi""ed in the sandhya! 1on@t $o( think it is an (nne)essar$ <(estion> D: 5ut so it may seem an unnecessary question but my real question is what is the !un that is worshipped2 HH: 0hat do $o( (nderstand ordinaril$ #$ the S(n> D: We mean the bright celestial orb in the sky. HH: /hen it is that #right )elestial or# that is worshi""ed!

15

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: %ut that orb is according to science mere inert matter in a state of high combustion and is certainly not worthy of being worshipped by intelligent beings like ourselves. (t can neither hear our prayers nor respond to them. ( cannot believe that our ancestors were so ignorant as to address their prayers to a mere burning mass of matter HH: ' <(ite agree with $o(! /he$ )o(ld ne.er ha.e #een so foolish! D: What then did they see in the !un to ,ustify their prayers being addressed to it2 HH: :o( said ?(st now that addressing of "ra$ers to inert matter )annot #e ?(stified #$ reason! D: +es! HH: 0hat then m(st #e the nat(re of the entit$ to whi)h a "ra$er is addressed> D: The primary condition is that it must not be mere inert matter but must be endowed with intelligence. HH: -nd the se)ond )ondition> D: That it must be able to hear our prayers and be powerful enough to answer them. HH: ,(ite so! 'f o(r an)ients were not fools and $et addressed their "ra$ers to the S(n, their )on)e"tion of the S(n m(st ha.e #een <(ite different from that of mere inert matter, in a state of high )om#(stion! D: +es they must have also postulated of it intelligence the capacity to hear us and the ability to help us. HH: /he @(s@ in)l(ding not onl$ all those who are now li.ing to raise their hands in "ra$er to the S(n, #(t also the genera-

16

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

tions, "ast and f(t(re, infinite in n(m#er tho(gh the$ ma$ #e> D: 1f course. HH: /he entit$ that is worshi""ed as the S(n is therefore one whose intelligen)e or a#ilit$ knows no limitation of s"a)e or time! D: (t must be so. HH: :o( ha.e now got $o(r answer to the <(estion as to who is worshi""ed in the sandhya> 't is an intelligent Being, omnis)ient and omni"otent in the matter of hearing and res"onding to its .otaries! D: +our #oliness then means that it is a deva who has his habitation in the solar orb2 HH: ,(ite so! 7e has not onl$ his ha#itation there, #(t the solar or# itself is his "h$si)al #od$! D: +our #oliness means that the deva enlivens the solar orb ,ust as we do our physical bodies2 HH: E(st so! D: (f then he is embodied ,ust like us how does he happen to have such high intelligence or power as to merit our obeisance2 HH: 7e attained that stat(s #$ .irt(e of the a""ro"riate karma and upasana done #$ him in a "re.io(s life! D: Does +our #oliness mean that he was at one time ,ust like ourselves and that he attained that status by his endeavour2 HH: :es!

17

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: Then he is no more than a ,iva which ( a(so am. Why should a ,iva make prostration before another ,iva howsoever superior2 HH: 0h$ sho(ld $o(r son or "("il res"e)t $o( and wh$ sho(ld $o( show res"e)t to $o(r s("erior offi)ers> -re not #oth of $o( ?i.as2 D: 0o doubt we are. %ut we respect our superiors as it is in their power to help us or in,ure us if they so desire. HH: /hat is a .er$ low kind of res"e)t! -n$how, taking e.en that kind of res"e)t, we m(st res"e)t !urya devata if it is in his "ower to hel" (s or in?(re (s, if he so desires! D: 1f course. HH: Being a ,iva as m()h as $o(r s("erior offi)ers, he will hel" $o( if $o( a""eal to him for hel" or in?(re $o( if $o( ignore or des"ise him! 'n $o(r own interest then, $o( are #o(nd to worshi" him and se)(re his goodwill! D: %ut ( need not court the favour nor fear the displeasure of my superior officer if ( carry out the duties of my office faithfully. HH: ,(ite so! D: (f ( preserve that attitude there is no reason why ( should propitiate my superior officer. HH: Certainl$ not! D: !imilarly if l carry out strictly the duties en,oined on me by the sastras ( need not propitiate any other ,iva be he the highest devil. HH: ,(ite so!

18

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: Then should ( not give up the worship of !urya devata2 HH: Certainl$ $o( ma$, (nless of )o(rse s()h a worshi" is "art of the d(ties en?oined on $o( #$ the sastras! D: #ow can that be2 HH: 't is tr(e that an honest and stri)t offi)er in "erforming the d(ties of his offi)e need not mind the "leas(re or the dis"leas(re of his immediate s("erior! B(t the mere fa)t that he thinks it ne)essar$ or o#ligator$ to "erform those d(ties "ro"erl$, shows that he has as the (ltimate end the "leas(re, or a.oidan)e of the dis"leas(re of a still higher offi)er who is s("erior to him as well as to his immediate s("erior! D.en if he has no "ersonal a)<(aintan)e with that higher offi)er, he alwa$s has in the #a)kgro(nd of his mind an (ndefined "ower, )all it the &ing or the 6o.ernment, when he "erforms the d(ties of his offi)e! -nd that "ower has the a#ilit$ to #enefit him #$ a re)ognition of his ser.i)es or to "(nish him #$ taking note of his delin<(en)ies! 3(rther, that "ower r(les #oth him and his immediate s("erior offi)er! 'f therefore that "ower re<(ires him to #eha.e in a "arti)(lar manner towards his s("erior offi)er, he )annot afford to diso#e$ that in?(n)tion, for if he diso#e$s, not onl$ does he in)(r the dis"leas(re of that offi)er #(t also of the higher "ower! D: That is so. HH: Similarl$, if a "ower whi)h r(les #oth $o( as well as !urya devata re<(ires $o( to )ond()t $o(rself in a "arti)(lar manner towards that deva, $o( )annot afford to negle)t that in?(n)tion, #(t m(st )onform to it or take the risk of in)(rring the dis"leas(re of that deva as also of the higher "ower! D: (t is no doubt so. %ut in that case in prostrating myself before !urya devata ( shall be really worshipping the higher power even when my worship may seem addressed to the !urya.

19

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: 0hat of that> D: (f ( am able to conceive of such a higher power who rules even the !urya that power is really the worshipped entity although to all appearances the worship is addressed to the !urya only. HH: ,(ite so! HH: %ut +our #oliness said that it was !urya devata who was worshipped2 D: :es! 't is )orre)t so far as "ersons who are not a#le to )on)ei.e of a higher "ower are )on)erned! /o those howe.er who )an )on)ei.e of that "ower, 7e is the real upasya. /hat "ower is )alled #iranyagarbha. 7e enli.ens and enso(ls not onl$ the !urya, #(t all de.ils! 7e enli.ens and inha#its not onl$ the solar or# #(t all things! 7e is the )osmi) "ersonalit$ who is the so(l of all things! D: ( suppose ,ust as we have the sense of 6(7 in our physical bodies so does that cosmic personality has the sense of "(" in the entire )osmos! HH: 7e has! D: (f so the difference between #im and me lies not in the presence or the absence of the sense of 6(7 but only in the degree the range or the magnitude of that sense. 3ine is restricted #is is e-tended. HH: 't is so! D: if it is the sense of "(" that is responsible for the )on)e"t of a ,iva he must be as much a ,iva as myself. HH: ,(ite so! 'n fa)t 7e is )alled the 3irst Born! D: Then even if this higher power happens to #elong to

20

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

the category of 8ivas ,ust like myself the same ob,ection which ( mentioned against the worship of !urya devata holds good in his case also. HH: 0hat then wo(ld $o( like to worshi"> D: " transcendent power which is not a ,iva. HH: 7a.e it then that it is s()h a trans)endent "ower that is worshi""ed in the sandhya. 0e gi.e 7im the name of lswara the 8ord, or the antaryami, the inner r(ler! D: %ut ( have heard it mentioned that the terms )9ord) and )&uler) are only relative terms which are used in regard to #im when we want to describe #im in relation to the universe which is )lorded over) or )ruled) by #im. HH: :es, it is so! D: (t cannot be that we can have no conception of him apart from his relationship of some sort to the universe. #is relationship to the universe can at best be only an e-traneous circumstance. (n #is essence #e must have an independent e-istence quite unrelated to anything else. HH: :o( are right! 0e )all that (nrelated essential eBisten)e %rahman. D: (f it is so that must be the real ob,ect of worship rather than the relative aspect called lshwara. HH: 't is e.en as $o( sa$! 't is reall$ the (n<(alified %rahman that is worshi""ed in the sandhya. D: ( cannot really understand +our #oliness. +ou first said that it was the solar orb that was the ob,ect of worship but when ( pointed out that it was only inert matter you said that it was !urya devata that was the ob,ect of worship4 when again ( pointed out that he was only a limited ,iva like

21

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

myself you said it was #iranyagarbha the cosmic soul that was the ob,ect of worship. when once again ( pointed out that he was after all a ,iva however cosmic his sense of )() may be you said that lswara the 9ord and &uler of the universe was really the ob,ect of worship4 and lastly when ( said that even he is but a relative aspect of %rahman you said that the ob,ect of worship was %rahman itself. HH: ' did sa$ so! D: %ut ( fail to see how all these statements can be reconciled. HH: 0here is the diffi)(lt$> D: The ob,ect in a particular worship can be only one. #ow can it be the solar orb or the deva enlivening it or #iranyagarbha or (swara or %rahman at the same time2 HH: ' ne.er said that it was the solar or# or the de.il and so on! D: Does +our #oliness mean to say then that the ob,ect of worship is the solar orb and the devil and #iranyagarbha and (swara and %rahman all put together2 HH: 2or did ' sa$ an$thing of that sort! D: #ow then am ( to understand +our #oliness) statements2 HH: 0hen did ' tell $o( that the ("as$a was !urya> D: When ( mentioned that the physical mass of burning matter cannot be the ob,ect of worship. HH: Before $o( mentioned it, ' said that it was e.en that mass that was the upasya.

22

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: +es. HH: ' ne.er mentioned that it was the solar #od$ or the deva as an alternati.e! /o one who )annot )on)ei.e of an enli.ening so(l, the upasya is the "h$si)al massA to one, howe.er, who de)lines to a))e"t inert matter as an o#?e)t of worshi", ' said the upasya was !urya devata. The upasya is e.er one, #(t its eBa)t nat(re .aries with the )om"eten)e of the worshi""ing as"irant! /he upasya gets f(rther refined when e.en the )on)e"t of a devil does not satisf$ the en<(iring de.otee! 0e sa$ then that it is #iranyagarbha. When e.en s()h a )on)e"t seems meagre or (nsatisfa)tor$, we tell the de.otee that he is reall$ worshi""ing the S("reme 8ord himself 0hen he #egins to feel that e.en the 8ord-ness is a limitation of 7is essential nat(re, we tell him that it is the infinite %rahman itself that is reall$ worshi""ed! 0here is the diffi)(lt$> D: Does +our #oliness then mean that it is not possible to definitely say what the ob,ect of worship in the sandhya is e-cept with reference to the mental equipment or intellectual advancement of the worshipper2 HH: 7ow )an there #e an o#?e)t of worshi" if we ignore the worshi""er> /he nat(re of the worshi""ed ne)essaril$ de"ends ("on the nat(re of the worshi""er! D: #ow2 HH: /ake me for eBam"le! -ll of $o( show me res"e)t! B(t the o#?e)t of res"e)t, tho(gh it is, ro(ghl$ s"eaking, m$self, does differ with ea)h one of $o(! 9rdinar$ "eo"le res"e)t me and like to see me s(rro(nded #$ glittering "ara"hernaliaA their attention and res"e)t are )laimed #$ those arti)les rather than #$ m$ "ersonalit$! S()h "eo"le will show the same res"e)t to others who ha.e similar "ara"hernalia! /heir homage is not therefore reall$ "aid to me #(t onl$ to the

23

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

"ara"hernalia! Some others res"e)t me for the "osition that ' hold or for the "srama in whi)h ' am! S()h "eo"le will e<(all$ res"e)t others who are or ma$ )ome to #e in s()h a "osition or in s()h an "srama, their homage is therefore not "aid to me #(t to m$ "osition or to the "srama! -nd some others ma$ not )are what "osition ' hold or in what "srama ' am, #(t gi.e me homage where.er ' go and howe.er ' ma$ #eA their o#?e)t of res"e)t is m$ "h$si)al #od$! - few others will not mind if m$ #od$ is dark or (gl$ or e.en diseased, #(t will ne.ertheless gi.e me homage if #$ "(rit$ of mind and )hara)ter or #$ the "ower of m$ intelle)t and learning or #$ an$ s"irit(al merit that ' ma$ "ossess ' )ommand their res"e)t! =er$ few indeed will res"e)t me for the s"ark of di.ine intelligen)e whi)h inheres in me, as it does in all of $o(! D: 1f course it is not possible to say that all the devotees that approach +our #oliness are of the same mental equipment. HH: ,(ite so! B(t, ordinaril$ all these "eo"le, whether the$ reall$ tender homage to the "ara"hernalia or to m$ stat(s and "srama or to m$ #od$ or to m$ mind or to m$ intelle)t or to the di.ine s"ark in me, "rostrate #efore me to show their res"e)t! Can $o( tell me, a"art from an$ referen)e to the se.eral de.otees, to whom or to what the$ "rostrate> D: (t is no doubt very difficult to answer. HH: Similarl$, with e.er$ kind of worshi"! DBternall$ .iewed, there will #e no a""re)ia#le differen)e #etween the one who res"e)ts me for the "ara"hernalia and another who res"e)ts me for the di.ine s"ark in me! DBternall$ .iewed, there will similarl$ #e no a""re)ia#le differen)e #etween the de.otee who in his #lind faith is )ontent to address his "ra$ers to the l(mino(s S(n and another who t(rns to it as a .isi#le s$m#ol of the infinite %rahman! /he <(estion as to what

24

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

is the upasya in the sandhya worshi" )an therefore #e answered onl$ in this wa$! D: ( now understand how in the simple worship of the !un all possible stages in spiritual perception have been provided for. HH: 't is not onl$ this, for $o( will find if $o( )onsider the matter still f(rther, that all the three wa$s known as karma bhakti and Gyana ha.e #een gi.en "la)es in the dail$ worshi", #(t that is a different matter! Sim"le as the sandhya worshi" seems to #e, it is s(ffi)ient to hel" (s on to the highest stages! 't is as (sef(l to the highest as"irant as it is to the #eginner! 't is a foll$, therefore, to #elittle its .al(e or to negle)t it in "ra)ti)e!

True Devotion
-nother e.ening, the )on.ersation whi)h was <(ite general at first, grad(all$ t(rned on to the s(#?e)t of bha,ana singing of de.otional songs to the a))om"animent of m(si)! bhakta who #elonged to the "art$ in attendan)e mentioned that s()h de.otional eBer)ises had an eBhilarating and soothing effe)t on o(r wa$ward minds and that it was "leasing to find that bha,ana "arties were #eing formed in in)reasing n(m#ers in e.er$ town and .illage! His Holiness: ' am glad to hear this! B(t ' ha.e heard that at the same time the o#ser.an)e of o(r religio(s rites is steadil$ going down! 0h$ is it so> Devotee: (t is mainly because the ordinary people lack faith in the efficacy of religious rites that they resort to bha,ana for pleasing God. HH: ' s(""ose that man$ of the "ersons engaged in bha,ana ma$ not )are for or ma$ e.en negle)t their ordinar$

25

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

religio(s d(ties like the sandhya worshi"! D: +es. They say that while engaged in bha,ana they can give up the sandhya worship because bha,ana being a higher kind of worship makes sandhya unnecessary and redundant. HH: -s a general "ro"osition it is <(ite tr(e that the greater in)l(des the less! B(t how do we know that bha,ana is of greater effi)a)$ than karma in the matter of "leasing 6od> D: %ha,ana is a direct appeal to God while karma is but an indirect appeal through the observance of rituals. HH: ' s(""ose $o( )on)ede that we ha.e ne.er met 6od "ersonall$! D: $ertainly ( do. HH: :o( m(st also )on)ede that we )an ne.er of o(r own a))ord find o(t what will "lease 6od and what will not, for we )annot ask 7im dire)tl$ nor )an 7e tell (s in "erson! D: (t maybe so but we can easily ascertain it from the !ruti which embodies #is teachings. HH: :o( ma$ also add the !mritis es"e)iall$ the %hagavad Gita, whi)h re)ord in no (nmistaka#le terms 7is mind as di.(lged to those who ha.e had the rare fort(ne to hold dire)t )omm(nion with 7im, #oth in the s"irit and in the flesh! D: $ertainly! HH: -nd what do the$ tea)h (s> D: They certainly do no discount bhakti. HH: Certainl$ not! B(t the <(estion is, what is #hakti> 's it $o(r bha,ana or is it karma2

26

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: #ow can karma be bhakti2 HH: 'n fa)t, $o( will find that karma alone )an #e bhakti and )ertainl$ not the bha,ana if it is in)onsistent with or is di.or)ed from karma. D: #ow can that be2 HH: /he 8ord tells (s <(ite (nam#ig(o(sl$ @Man attains "erfe)tion #$ worshi""ing 6od #$ "erforming the karma en?oined on him!@ 7e )learl$ en(n)iates here the "ro"osition that the wa$ to worshi" 7im is to "erform one@s assigned karma! D: %ut such a performance of karma is not the only way in which devotion can be shown to the 9ord. HH: 't is the onl$ wa$ for those on whom karma is en?oined! D: !urely a person who spends his time in prayer and contemplation of the 9ord is as much a bhakta as if not more the one who busies himself with outward rituals. HH: 8ea.e again )om"aring! 7e will not #e a bhakta at all if he )hooses to negle)t the karma en?oined on him in fa.o(r of mental "ra$ers and )ontem"lation! D: Why so2 HH: /ake the ordinar$ )ase of a master and his ser.ants! S(""ose one of his ser.ants is alwa$s standing #efore him and singing his "raises! /he master ma$ sometimes ask him to fet)h something from another room! S(""ose the ser.ant re"lies, @9, Master, ' )annot #ear the tho(ght of "arting from $o( e.en for a moment! ' )annot forego e.en for a moment the "leas(re and the "ri.ilege of looking at $o(r handsome fa)e! ' like to #e e.er with $o( and to "raise $o( #$ re)o(nting $o(r inestima#le <(alities! 1on@t ask me to lea.e $o(r

27

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

"resen)e!@ S(""ose again there is another ser.ant who is alwa$s awa$ from the "resen)e of the master, #(t is )arr$ing o(t with s)r("(lo(s )are all the )ommands of the master, )omm(ni)ated to him either #$ the master "ersonall$ or thro(gh his de"(ties! 0here.er the master t(rns, he finds that he has #een most lo$all$ o#e$ed #$ this ser.ant who nowhere seems to intr(de on him! 0hi)h do $o( think is the more de.oted of these two ser.ants and with whom in $o(r o"inion, will the master #e "leased more> D: $ertainly the latter. HH: 's a father ha""$ with the )hild who alwa$s "refers to sit on his la" and de)lines to do an$thing or with the one who is going o(t on errands> D: With the latter ( should think. HH: 3(rther, )an $o( grant that the ser.ant, or the #o$, who ref(ses to lea.e the "resen)e of his master or father and does not )arr$ o(t his orders, is reall$ de.oted at all> D: !urely disobedience cannot go hand in hand with devotion. HH: ,(ite so! /he "rimar$ test of de.otion in an$ s"here of life is o#edien)e, (n<(estioning and lo.ing o#edien)e, not in<(isiti.e or gr(m#ling o#edien)e! D: $ertainly. HH: @/he !ruti and the !mriti are the )ommands of M$self,@ sa$s the 8ord! Can $o( )on)ei.e of a de.otion to the 8ord side #$ side with a diso#edien)e of 7is )ommands> D: ( now see that bha,ana can never be a substitute for karma. HH: 't )an ne.er #e!

28

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: What then is the function of bha,ana2 (t cannot certainly be all waste. HH: - ser.ant, when he finds leis(re after dis)harging all his d(ties, ma$ )ertainl$ stand in the "resen)e of the master, #(t not when he has got d(ties to "erform! Similarl$ a "erson, who after "erforming all the karma en?oined on him still finds leis(re, )an s"end it in "ra$er or in singing the "raises of the 8ord and th(s (tilise the leis(re to the #est ad.antage! %ha,ana is th(s intended onl$ for the o))asions of leis(re in the midst of karmic d(ties! D: ( fear if a %rahmana should be asked to perform properly all the duties en,oined on him by the *edas and the !mrtis he cannot have bha,ana at all. HH: 't is not <(ite so! 't is onl$ the laC$ "eo"le that are e.er short of time! /he #(s$ ones are alwa$s a#le to find leis(re! D: it seems to me that if bha,ana is to be done only at the times not occupied by religious duties the castes other than the %rahmanas will have more leisure for it as they have to perform only very few religious observances. (t seems that the non-%rahmanas are more competent to take up bha,ana. HH: ,(ite so! 't is intended more for them than for the Brahmanas! D: (s it not an anomaly that the %rahmanas should be denied equal privilege in this matter2 HH: 2o! /he$ are not denied this @"ri.ilege@ as $o( )all it, for the$ )an en?o$ it in their leis(re moments! 3(rther, $o( forget that )arr$ing o(t the )ommands of the 8ord is a greater a)t of de.otion than singing 7is "raises! 2ow $o( ma$ look at the matter from another "oint of .iew also!

29

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: What is that2 HH: - ser.ant who lo.es to look at the fa)e of his master and a.oids "erforman)e of his d(ties does so #e)a(se he deri.es "leas(re from #eing with the master and fears a )essation of that "leas(re if he has to "erform his d(ties! D: (t may seem to be so. HH: /he onl$ )onsideration therefore whi)h weighs with him in determining his )ond()t is his own "leas(re and not the "leas(re of his master! D: !trictly analysed it is so! HH: Can $o( )all s()h a ser.ant de.oted in an$ sense when he "la)es his own selfish "leas(re a#o.e his master@s "leas(re> D: $ertainly not. HH: Similarl$, if a so-)alled bhakta "refers to sing to the a))om"animent of en)hanting m(si) the "raises of the 8ord at the same time ignoring, negle)ting and disregarding 7is di.ine )ommands, )an $o( )all him a @de.otee@ at all> D: ( fear not. HH: -gain "lease )onsider for a moment that that so)alled bhakta has a )on)e"tion of the 8ord onl$ as a .er$ attra)ti.e o#?e)t intended for his en?o$ment! 0hat )an #e more a#s(rd than dragging down the -ll-)ons)io(s, 9mni"otent 8ord to the le.el of a to$ intended for one@s am(sements> /o )on)ei.e of the 8ord as an o#?e)t of "leas(re is sheer "rofanation, whi)h sho(ld ne.er "ass off (nder the name of de.otion! %eal de.otion lies in )arr$ing o(t 7is di)tates im"li)itl$! /o diso#e$ 7im in a)tion and to "rofess allegian)e in words is #las"hem$! 't is not bhakti. %y bhakti is meant single-"ointed de.otion (niforml$ eB"ressed in mind,

30

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

s"ee)h and #od$!

Name and form


Devotee: 3ay ( ask one other question relation to bhakti2 His Holiness: :es! 0hat is it> D: ( have seen a number of bhaktas who lead earnest and pious lives but at the same time indulge in recrimination and invective if any devata other than their own upasya deva happens to be praised within their hearing. (s such an attitude of intolerance consistent with true bhakti2 HH: 2o it is not! S()h an attit(de is to #e fo(nd not in tr(e bhaktas #(t onl$ in those who ha.e no "ro"er (nderstanding of the meaning of bhakti or of the nat(re of the 8ord to whom the$ "rofess to #e de.oted! /he 7ighest Being, the S("reme 8ord, the r(ler of the (ni.erse, trans)ends all "arti)(lar names and forms! 2ame and form are the attri#(tes of the m(te prakriti. 6od has no name or form of 7is own (ntil $o( )lothe 7im, howsoe.er slightl$, in prakriti. /his entire world of name and form is, as it were, onl$ 7is feet, to ado"t the words of the 5urusha !ukta. 0e )annot ha.e an$ dire)t relationshi" with the higher and larger "ortion of 7is di.ine "ersonalit$! 9nl$ 7is feet are .isi#le to (s and we are asked to worshi" 7im onl$ thro(gh ser.i)e to 7is feet! 't is o(r "ro"er )ond()t, as laid down in the sastras, with referen)e to the .ario(s "ortions of the (ni.erse :devils pitris men, animals, et)! , that goes #$ the name of karma. /his is the ser.i)e of the feet! 0hen, after stead$ and )ontin(ed ser.i)e at 7is feet, the 8ord, satisfied with o(r de.otion, )hooses to raise (s (" to a height where from we )an look dire)tl$ ("on 7is fa)e, there will #e time eno(gh to learn whether 7is forehead #ears the mark of the gopichandana or is adorned with bhasma. Sit(ated as we are at "resent at the

31

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

lowest r(ng of the ladder and e.en witho(t a gleam of the glor$ of 7is feet, wh$ sho(ld we )hoose to waste o(r time and energ$ in s"e)(lating and wrangling a#o(t the nat(re of 7is fa)e> /he tr(e bhakta ne.er does that! 7e is )ontent to know the sim"le definition of the 8ord that 7e is the Creator, the S(stainer and 1issol.er of the (ni.erse! /he name or form that $o( assign to the 8ord is of no moment to 7im, for 7e knows that that name or form is not 7is essen)e, #(t is a))e"ted or ass(med onl$ tem"oraril$ for the sake of a "arti)(lar bhakta. /he tr(e bhakta is also )ontent to know that the =edas are 7is di.ine )ommands and that a stri)t "erforman)e of the d(ties en?oined #$ them is the onl$ wa$ of se)(ring the gra)e of the 8ord and, within the )om"eten)e of man, the onl$ wa$ of ser.ing 7im! D: %ut is it not a fact that a ,iva bhakta claims that ,iva is the $reator the !ustainer and the Dissolver the universe and a *ishnu bhakta claims that same thing for *ishnu2 HH: 2o do(#t at first sight it ma$ seem to #e so! 'n the .iew of the !iva bhakta his 8ord Siva is the onl$ Creator, S(stainer and 1issol.er of the (ni.erseA he does not grant that an$ other entit$, *ishnu or another, has the )hara)teristi)s of #eing the Creator, S(stainer and 1issol.er of the (ni.erse! 7e does not sa$ that there are more than one entit$ whi)h )an )laim those )hara)teristi)s or that his 8ord S iva is s("reme o.er all others! 0hat he means and what he does #elie.e is that the 8ord !iva is the onl$ Creator, S(stainer and 1issol.er of the (ni.erse! 7e does not "ost(late "l(ralit$ of 6ods, #(t em"hati)all$ sa$s that there is #(t one god who is the Creator, S(stainer and 1issol.er of the (ni.erse and that 7is name is !iva. D: $ertainly it is so. %ut the *ishnu bhakta says the same thing of *ishnu. The devotee of Ganesha !ubrahmanya or Devi also says the same thing of his upasya. Which of these has to be taken as right2 "ll of them surely cannot be right.

32

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: :o( agree with me that none of these bhaktas "ost(late "l(ralit$ of 6ods> D: ( do. HH: :o( agree with me that the$ all "ost(late the eBisten)e of onl$ one 6od> D: $ertainly! HH: :o( also note that the$ all agree in the definition of that 6od as the Creator, the S(stainer and the 1issol.er of the 5ni.erse> D: +es! HH: B(t the$ ha""en to differ as regards the name or the form to #e attri#(ted to that 6od> D: /uite so. HH: /his shows that their )on)e"tion of 6od is not at all fa(lt$! D: +es. HH: S(""ose $o( ha.e a grain of ri)e #efore $o( and $o( satisf$ $o(rself that it has got all the )hara)teristi)s whi)h are "e)(liar to ri)e and that therefore it is ri)eA does it matter the least to $o( if a /amilian gi.es it the name arisi, a Canarese )alls it akki or a Sanskrit Pandit "refers to )all it tandula> D: 0o it does not matter. HH: 1on@t $o( then realise that all names are eBternal to and not of the essen)e of things, tho(gh s()h names ha.e great "ra)ti)al (tilit$ in the world of names and forms> Similarl$, if the )hara)teristi)s of #eing the Creator, S(stainer and

33

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

1issol.er of the (ni.erse are there, what does it matter if 7e is )alled !iva *ishvu or Devi2 /he entit$ denoted is the same, tho(gh the names ma$ differ! - /amilian who does not know Canarese or Sanskrit will #e .ehement in sa$ing that ri)e is )alled onl$ as arisi and ne.er as akki or tandula! 7e is <(ite )orre)t so far as he goes, for no s()h names are to #e fo(nd in the /amil lang(age with whi)h alone he is familiar! -s long as #$ a "ro)ess of anal$sis, he does not learn to disso)iate the name from the thing, the name is the thing for himA and if $o( den$ that name, he will take it that $o( den$ the thing itself! 9nl$ the bhakta will #e <(arrelsome who )annot disso)iate a "arti)(lar name or a "arti)(lar form from his )on)e"tion of 6od! 7e is )orre)t so far as his mentalit$ goes! B(t his bhakti is far #elow that real bhakti whi)h realises that 6od is a#o.e all names and a#o.e all forms, that "arti)(lar names are #(t )on.enient denominations for tr$ing to eB"ress the essentiall$ ineB"ressi#le and that "arti)(lar forms are onl$ limited as"e)ts of the essentiall$ limitless 6od! D: (t seems to me that !ri *yasa is himself responsible for these unseemly squabbles. #e wrote a large number of 5uranas devoted to many different devata and in every one of them he calls the devata dealt with there as the #ighest %eing so that even a sincere reader is unable to understand which is really the #ighest %eing in !ri *yasa)s view. HH: ' s(""ose we )an start with the "res(m"tion that Sri =$asa was neither an ignorant "erson nor was he deli#eratel$ o(t to mislead "eo"le> D: $ertainly! HH: 7e m(st ha.e known the elementar$ "ro"osition that there )annot "ossi#l$ #e more than one 7ighest Being! D: /uite so. That is ,ust my difficulty. ( cannot under-

34

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

stand how he chooses to call every one of the devatas as the #ighest %eing. HH: :o(r diffi)(lt$ is .er$ easil$ sol.ed if $o( (nderstand Sri =$asa to sa$ not that e.er$ devata is the 7ighest Being #(t that the 7ighest Being is e.er$ one of the devatas! D: #ow is that2 HH: /he 7ighest Being ha.ing no name or form of 7is own has to take on some name or form when 7e is )on)ei.ed of as an o#?e)t of worshi"! Being in 7is essential nat(re a#sol(tel$ formless, in the a#sol(te .iew 7e has no form at all* #(t in the relati.e .iew, all forms are e<(all$ 7is! D: ( do understand this. %ut !ri *yasa when he deals with a particular form say !iva chooses to endow it not only with the attributes of the #ighest %eing but also with the attributes peculiar to other devatas. #e does not deal with !iva as the dissolver-aspect of the #ighest %eing but says that #e is even *ishnu or %rahma and sometimes says that *ishnu and %rahma are but #is aspects or offspring. HH: /ake a familiar in)ident in famil$ life! S(""ose a gentleman has fo(r )hildren and the #irthda$ of one of them ha""ens to #e )ele#rated! /hat )hild is the @idol@, the upasya for the day. #e is seated on a raised seat in the )entral hall of the ho(seA he is dressed in )ostl$ )lothes and is de)ked with ?ewels! 's it not (n(s(al for the mother and the other )hildren to "art tem"oraril$ with the ?ewels that the$ themsel.es (s(all$ wear, so that the @idol@ ma$ #e #etter adorned> D: (t is so. HH: 1o the mother and the other )hildren feel the slightest regret at "arting with their ?ewels or the slightest en.$ at that )hild wearing them for the o))asion>

35

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: $ertainly they do not. HH: Can an$#od$ a))(se that )hild of de"ri.ing its mother and the other )hildren of their ?ewels on this da$> 3(rther, will an$#od$ a))(se the father of "artialit$ towards that )hild #e)a(se he gi.es it "rominen)e for the da$ and e.en de"ri.es the others of their ?ewels to ena#le that )hild to shine #etter> D: $ertainly not. HH: 2ow will $o( tell me in whom the right of ownershi" and "ossession of all this finer$ and all the ?ewels reall$ .ests> D: $ertainly in the father. HH: ,(ite so! 1oes he e.er wear the ?ewels himself> D: 0o! HH: /hat means, that tho(gh all the ?ewels reall$ #elong to him, he ne.er shows himself off in them #(t finds "leas(re in de)king o(t his )hildren in them as and when o))asions ma$ arise> D: /uite so. HH: 0e ma$ therefore sa$ of him that he ne.er wears an$ ?ewels tho(gh all the ?ewels are reall$ his! D: +es! HH: /he ?ewels are his, not onl$ when the$ are ke"t in the safe in his )(stod$ #(t e.en when the )hild is a)t(all$ wearing them! D: $ertainly! HH: /he 7ighest Being, the im"ersonal %rahman, is like

36

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

the father! 7e ne.er wears an$ attri#(tes, #(t all the attri#(tes whi)h e.er$ one of the devatas has #elong to 7im! 0hen a "arti)(lar devata is )on)ei.ed of as the upasya in a "arti)(lar 5urana for the ("liftment of a t$"e of bhakta that devata is gi.en the seat of hono(r, neBt to none (not e.en the father, who has to stand aside in the #a)kgro(nd looking on ha""il$ at the )hild , and has to #e de)ked with all the attri#(tes whi)h ordinaril$ go with the other devatas also! /here is a#sol(tel$ no room for an$ )harge of "artialit$ if in an$ "arti)(lar 5urana )ertain devata is gi.en "rominen)e o.er others, for when their t(rn )omes in the other 5uranas the$ are treated with e<(al "rominen)e! S()h is the attit(de of Sri =$asa in e.er$ one of his 5uranas! 7e knows that the 7ighest #eing is de.oid of an$ attri#(tes, an$ name or an$ formA #(t, as a "ra)ti)al tea)her, he knows e<(all$ well that s()h an a#sol(te )on)e"tion is not within the rea)h of "eo"le, a few eB)e"tions a"art, and, therefore, he offers for the )ontem"lation of de.otees "arti)(lar devatas who, tho(gh mere as"e)ts of the -#sol(te %rahman, are treated for the moment and for all "ra)ti)al "(r"oses as #eing identi)al with the S("reme Being! 7e has so written the P(ranas that the bhakta of an$ "arti)(lar devata #$ intensit$ of de.otional eBer)ise )an o#tain the fr(its of de.otion to other devata also, witho(t the need of worshi""ing them se"aratel$, and finall$, #$ f(rther effort, )an attain e.en a knowledge of the -#sol(te %rahman, thro(gh de.otion to his "arti)(lar devata! 3or "ra)ti)al wisdom, whi)h )om#ines e)onom$ of effort with maBim(m #enefit and ada"ts the do)trine of the -#sol(te %rahman to the needs of the de.otee witho(t im"airing in an$ wa$ the tr(th of the do)trine, Sri =$asa is inimita#le! 'f we fight among o(rsel.es witho(t (nderstanding Sri =$asa "ro"erl$, the fa(lt is o(rs, )ertainl$ not his! 9n the other hand, all o(r gratit(de m(st go to him!

37

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

Fate and Free Will


9ne e.ening a dis)i"le a""roa)hed 7is 7oliness with a .iew to o#tain some .al(a#le instr()tion, #(t fo(nd words wanting to eB"ress his intention and 7is 7oliness )ame to his relief #$ starting the )on.ersation himself! His Holiness: ' ho"e $o( are "(rs(ing $o(r st(dies in the =edanta as (s(al! Disciple: ( cannot say that ( make any regular study but ( do study somewhat off and on. HH: 'n the )o(rse of $o(r st(dies, $o( wo(ld ha.e #een fa)ed with man$ do(#ts! D: ( cannot say that ( have studied deep enough even for that. HH: ' do not mean the do(#ts, whi)h arise when we endea.o(r to gras" the te)hni)alities of the =edanta s$stem, #(t onl$ those #road "ro#lems, whi)h "resent themsel.es to an$ one who makes an attem"t at serio(s thinking! D: $ertainly there are very many such doubts. HH: 0ill $o( form(late one of s()h do(#ts and tell me how $o( ha.e tried to sol.e it> D: ( shall mention one of such doubts which is repeatedly coming up to my mind and for which ( have found no solution yet. ( shall be very grateful if your #oliness will solve it for me. HH: Please mention it! D: (t is no other than the problem of the eternal conflict between fate and free-will. What are their respective provinces and how can the conflict be avoided2

38

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: /he "ro#lem is indeed a .er$ great one and wo(ld #affle the intelle)t of the highest thinkers, if "resented in the wa$ $o( ha.e done it! D: What is wrong with my presentation2 (n fact ( only stated my problem and did not even e-plain how ( find it difficult to solve. HH: :o(r diffi)(lt$ arises e.en in that mere statement of the "ro#lem! D: #ow2 HH: - )onfli)t is )on)ei.a#le and "ossi#le onl$ if there are two things! /here )an #e no )onfli)t if there is onl$ a single thing! D: %ut here there are two things fate and free-will. HH: DBa)tl$, 't is ?(st that ass(m"tion that is res"onsi#le for the "ro#lem arising in $o(r mind! D: (t is not my assumption at all. #ow can ( ignore the fact that they do e-ist as independent factors whether l grant their e-istence or not. HH: /hat is where $o( are wrong again! D: #ow2 HH: -s a follower of o(r !anatana Dharma, $o( m(st know that fate is nothing eBtraneo(s to $o(rself, #(t is onl$ the s(m total of the res(lts of $o(r "ast a)tions! -s 6od is #(t the dis"enser of the fr(its of $o(r a)tions, fate, re"resenting those fr(its, is not 7is )reation #(t onl$ $o(rs! 3ree-will is what $o( eBer)ise when $o( a)t now! D: !till ( do not see how they are not two distinct things.

39

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: 7a.e it this wa$! 3ate is "ast karma free-will is "resent karma. Both are reall$ one, that is, karma tho(gh the$ ma$ differ in the matter of time! /here )an #e no )onfli)t when the$ are reall$ one! D: %ut the difference in time is a vital difference which we cannot possibly overlook. HH: ' do not want $o( to o.erlook it, #(t onl$ to st(d$ it more dee"l$! /he "resent is #efore $o( and, #$ the eBer)ise of free-will, $o( )an attem"t to sha"e it! /he "ast is "ast and is therefore #e$ond $o(r .ision and is rightl$ )alled adrishta, the (nseen! :o( )annot reasona#l$ attem"t to find o(t the relati.e strength of two things (nless #oth of them are #efore $o(! B(t, #$ o(r .er$ definition, free-will, the "resent karma alone is #efore $o( and fate, the "ast karma is in.isi#le! D.en if $o( see two wrestlers "h$si)all$ s<(atting #efore $o(, $o( )annot de)ide a#o(t their relati.e strength! 3or, one ma$ ha.e weight, the other agilit$A one m(s)les and the other tena)it$A one the #enefit of "ra)ti)e and the other of )oolness of ?(dgement and so on! 0e )an on these gro(nds go on #(ilding arg(ments on arg(ments to "ro.e that a "arti)(lar wrestler will #e the winner! B(t eB"erien)e shows that ea)h of these <(alifi)ations ma$ fail at an$ time or ma$ "ro.e to #e a dis<(alifi)ation! /he onl$ reasona#le, "ra)ti)al and s(re method of determining their relati.e strength is to ask them to wrestle with ea)h other! 0hile this is so, how do $o( eB"e)t to find #$ means of arg(ments a sol(tion to the "ro#lem of the relati.e .al(e of fate and free-will when the former #$ its .er$ nat(re is (nseenF D: (s there no way then of solving this problem2 HH: /here is this wa$! /he wrestlers m(st fight with ea)h other and "ro.e whi)h of them is the stronger! D: (n other words the problem of conflict will get solved

40

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

only at the end of the conflict. %ut at that time the problem will have ceased to have any practical significance. HH: 2ot onl$ so, it will )ease to eBist! D: That is before the conflict begins the problem is incapable of solution and after the conflict ends it is no longer necessary to find a solution. HH: E(st so! 'n either )ase, it is "rofitless to em#ark on the en<(ir$ as to the relati.e strength of fate and free-will! D: Does +our #oliness then mean to say that we must resign ourselves to fate2 HH: Certainl$ not! 9n the other hand, $o( m(st de.ote $o(rself to free-will! D: #ow can that be2 HH: 3ate, as ' told $o(, is the res(ltant of the "ast eBer)ise of $o(r free-will! B$ eBer)ising $o(r free-will in the "ast, $o( #ro(ght on the res(ltant fate! B$ eBer)ising $o(r freewill in the "resent, ' want $o( to wi"e o(t $o(r "ast re)ord if it h(rts $o(, or to add to it if $o( find it en?o$a#le! 'n an$ )ase, whether for a)<(iring more ha""iness or for red()ing miser$, $o( ha.e to eBer)ise $o(r free-will in the "resent! D: %ut the e-ercise of free-will however well directed very often fails to secure the desired result as fate steps in and nullifies the action of free-will. HH: :o( are again ignoring o(r definition of fate! 't is not an eBtraneo(s and a new thing whi)h ste"s in to n(llif$ $o(r freewill! 9n the other hand, it is alread$ in $o(! D: (t may be so but its e-istence is felt only when it comes into conflict with free-will #ow can we possibly wipe out the past record when we do not know nor have the

41

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

means of knowing what it is2 HH: DB)e"t to a .er$ few highl$ ad.an)ed so(ls, the "ast )ertainl$ remains (nknown! B(t e.en o(r ignoran)e of it is .er$ often an ad.antage to (s! 3or, if we ha""en to know all the limitless .arieties of res(lts whi)h we ha.e a))(m(lated #$ o(r a)tions in this life and the )o(ntless li.es that ha.e "re)eded it, we will #e sim"l$ staggered at the magnit(de and n(m#er of s()h res(lts and gi.e (" in des"air an$ attem"t to o.er)ome or mitigate them! D.en in this life, forgetf(lness is a #oon whi)h the mer)if(l 6od has #een "leased to #estow on (s, so that we ma$ not #e #(ried at an$ moment with a re)olle)tion of all that has trans"ired in the "ast! Similarl$, the di.ine s"ark in (s is e.er #right with ho"e and makes it "ossi#le for (s to )onfidentl$ eBer)ise o(r freewill! 't is not for (s to #elittle the signifi)an)e of these two #oonsGforgetf(lness of the "ast and ho"e for the f(t(re! D: 1ur ignorance of the past may be useful in not deterring the e-ercise of the free-will and hope may stimulate that e-ercise. "ll the same it cannot be denied that fate very often does present a formidable obstacle in the way of such e-ercise. HH: 't is not <(ite )orre)t to sa$ that fate "la)es o#sta)les in the wa$ of free-will! 9n the other hand, #$ seeming to o""ose o(r efforts, it tells (s what is the eBtent of free-will that is ne)essar$ now to #ear fr(it! 9rdinaril$ for the "(r"ose of se)(ring a single #enefit, a "arti)(lar a)ti.it$ is "res)ri#edA #(t we do not know how intensi.el$ or how re"eatedl$ that a)ti.it$ has to #e "(rs(ed or "ersisted in! 'f we do not s())eed at the .er$ first attem"t, we )an easil$ ded()e that in the "ast we ha.e eBer)ised o(r free-will ?(st in the o""osite dire)tion! that the res(ltant of that "ast a)ti.it$ has first to #e eliminated and that o(r "resent effort m(st #e "ro"ortionate to that "ast a)ti.it$! /h(s, the o#sta)le whi)h fate seems to offer is ?(st the ga(ge #$ whi)h we ha.e

42

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

to g(ide o(r "resent a)ti.ities! D: The obstacle is seen only after the e-ercise of our free-will how can that help us to guide our activities at the start2 HH: 't need not g(ide (s at the start! -t the start, $o( m(st not #e o#sessed at all with the idea that there will #e an$ o#sta)le in $o(r wa$! Start with #o(ndless ho"e and with the "res(m"tion that there is nothing in the wa$ of $o(r eBer)ising the free-will! 'f $o( do not s())eed, tell $o(rself that there has #een in the "ast a )o(nter-infl(en)e #ro(ght on #$ $o(rself #$ eBer)ising $o(r freewill in the other dire)tion and, therefore, $o( m(st now eBer)ise $o(r free-will with re-do(#led .igo(r and "ersisten)e to a)hie.e $o(r o#?e)t! /ell $o(rself that, inasm()h as the seeming o#sta)le is of $o(r own making, it is )ertainl$ within $o(r )om"eten)e to o.er)ome it! 'f $o( do not s())eed e.en after this renewed effort, there )an #e a#sol(tel$ no ?(stifi)ation for des"air, for fate #eing #(t a )reat(re of $o(r free-will )an ne.er #e stronger than freewill! :o(r fail(re onl$ means that $o(r "resent eBer)ise of freewill is not s(ffi)ient to )o(ntera)t the res(lt of the "ast eBer)ise of it! 'n other words, there is no <(estion of a relati.e "ro"ortion #etween fate and freewill as distin)t fa)tors in life! /he relati.e "ro"ortion is onl$ as #etween the intensit$ of o(r "ast a)tion and the intensit$ of o(r "resent a)tion! D: %ut even so the relative intensity can be realised only at the end of our present effort in a particular direction. HH: 't is alwa$s so in the )ase of e.er$thing whi)h is adrishta or (nseen! /ake, for eBam"le, a nail dri.en into a wooden "illar! 0hen $o( see it for the first time, $o( a)t(all$ see, sa$, an in)h of it "ro?e)ting o(t of the "illar! /he rest of it has gone into the wood and $o( )annot now see what eBa)t length of the nail is im#edded in the wood! /hat length,

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

therefore, is (nseen or adrishta so far as $o( are )on)erned! Bea(tif(ll$ .arnished as the "illar is, $o( do not know what is the )om"osition of the wood in whi)h the nail is dri.en! /hat also is (nseen or adrishta. 2ow s(""ose $o( want to "(ll that nail o(t, )an $o( tell me how man$ "(lls will #e ne)essar$ and how "owerf(l ea)h "(ll has to #e> D: #ow can ( fi- the number of pulls now2 The number and the intensity of the pulls depend upon the length which has gone into the wood. HH: Certainl$ so! -nd the length whi)h has gone into the wood is not ar#itrar$, #(t de"ended ("on the n(m#er of strokes whi)h dro.e it in and the intensit$ of ea)h of s()h strokes and the resistan)e whi)h the wood offered to them! D: (t is so. HH: /he n(m#er and intensit$ of the "(lls needed to take o(t the nail de"end therefore ("on the n(m#er and intensit$ of the strokes whi)h dro.e it in! D: +es. HH: B(t the strokes that dro.e in the nail are now (nseen and (nseea#le! /he$ relate to the "ast and are adrishta! D: +es. HH: 1o we desist from the attem"t to "(ll o(t the nail sim"l$ #e)a(se we ha""en to #e ignorant of the length of the nail in the wood or of the n(m#er and intensit$ of the strokes whi)h dro.e it in> 9r, do we "ersist and "erse.ere in "(lling it o(t #$ in)reasing the n(m#er and the intensit$ of o(r "resent efforts to "(ll it o(t> D: $ertainly as practical men we adopt the latter course. HH: -do"t the same )o(rse in e.er$ effort of $o(rs! DBert

44

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

$o(rself as m()h as $o( )an! :o(r will m(st s())eed in the end! D: %ut there certainly are many things which are impossible to attain even after the utmost e-ertion. HH: /here $o( are mistaken! 'f there is an$ thing, it is #$ its .er$ nat(re )a"a#le of #eing eB"erien)ed! /here is nothing whi)h is reall$ (nattaina#le! - thing, howe.er, ma$ #e (nattaina#le to (s at the "arti)(lar stage at whi)h we are, or with the <(alifi)ations that we "ossess! /he attaina#ilit$ or otherwise of a "arti)(lar thing is th(s not an a#sol(te )hara)teristi) of that thing #(t is relati.e and "ro"ortionate to o(r )a"a)it$ to attain it! D: The success or failure of an effort can be known definitely only at the end. #ow are we then to know beforehand whether with our present capacity we may or may not e-ert ourselves to attain a particular ob,ect and whether it is the right kind of e-ertion for the attainment of that ob,ect. HH: :o(r <(estion is )ertainl$ a .er$ "ertinent one! /he whole aim of o(r Dharma sastras is to gi.e a detailed answer to $o(r <(estion! /he$ anal$se o(r )a"a)ities, or )om"eten)$, and "res)ri#e the a)ti.ities whi)h a "erson endowed with a "arti)(lar adhikara )an (ndertake! /he a)ti.ities are .ario(s and n(m#erless, as the )a"a)ities also ha""en to #e .ario(s and n(m#erless! %eg(lation of a)ti.ities or, in other words, the dire)ting of free-will into )hannels least harmf(l and most #enefi)ial to the as"irant, is the main f(n)tion of religion! S()h reg(lated a)ti.it$ is )alled svadharma. %eligion does not fetter man@s free-will! 't lea.es him <(ite free to a)t, #(t tells him at the same time what is good for him and what is not! /he res"onsi#ilit$ is entirel$ and solel$ his! 7e )annot es)a"e it #$ #laming fate, for fate is of his own making, nor #$ #laming 6od, for 7e is #(t the dis"enser of fr(its in a))ordan)e with the merits of a)tions! :o( are the master

45

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

of $o(r own destin$! 't is for $o( to make it, to #etter it or to mar it! /his is $o(r "ri.ilege! /his is $o(r res"onsi#ilit$! D: ( quite realise this. %ut often it so happens that ( am not really the master of myself ( know for instance quite well that a particular act is wrong at the same time ( feel impelled to do it. !imilarly ( know that another act is right at the same time however ( feel powerless to do it. (t seems to me that there is some power which is able to control or defy my free-will. !o long as that power is potent how can ( be called the master of my own destiny2 What is that power but fate2 HH: :o( are e.identl$ )onf(sing together two distin)t things! 3ate is a thing <(ite different from the other whi)h $o( )all a "ower! S(""ose $o( handle an instr(ment for the first time! :o( will do it .er$ )l(msil$ and with great effort! /he neBt time, howe.er, $o( (se it, $o( will do so less )l(msil$ and with less effort! 0ith re"eated (ses, $o( will ha.e learnt to (se it easil$ and witho(t an$ effort . /hat is, the fa)ilit$ and ease with whi)h $o( (se a "arti)(lar thing in)rease with the n(m#er of times $o( (se it! /he re"eated and familiar (se will lea.e #ehind a tenden)$ to (se it! /he first time a man steals, he does so with great effort and m()h fearA the neBt time #oth his effort and fear are m()h less! -s o""ort(nities in)rease, stealing will #e)ome a normal ha#it with him and will re<(ire no effort at all! /his ha#it will generate in him atenden)$ to steal e.en when there is no ne)essit$ to steal! 't is this tenden)$ whi)h goes #$ the name vasana. /he "ower whi)h makes $o( a)t as if against $o(r will is onl$ the vasana whi)h itself is of $o(r own making! /his is not fate! /he "(nishment or reward, in the sha"e of "ain or "leas(re, whi)h is the ine.ita#le )onse<(en)e of an a)t, #ad or good, is alone the "ro.in)e of fate or destin$ /he vasana whi)h the doing of an a)t lea.es #ehind in the mind in the sha"e of a taste, a greater fa)ilit$ or a greater tenden)$ for

46

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

doing the same a)t on)e again, is <(ite a different thing! 't ma$ #e that the "(nishment or the reward of a "ast a)t is, in ordinar$ )ir)(mstan)es, (na.oida#le, if there is no )o(ntereffortA #(t the vasana )an #e easil$ handled if onl$ we eBer)ise o(r free-will )orre)tl$! D: %ut the number of vasanas or tendencies that rule our hearts are endless. #ow can we possibly control them2 HH: /he essential nat(re of a vasana is to seek eB"ression in o(tward a)ts! /his )hara)teristi) is )ommon to all vasanas good and #ad! /he stream of vasana the vasana-sarit as it is )alled, has two )(rrents, the good and the #ad! 'f $o( tr$ to dam (" the entire stream, there ma$ #e danger! /he sastras, therefore, do not ask $o( to attem"t that! 9n the other hand, the$ ask $o( to s(#mit $o(rself to #e led #$ the good vasana )(rrent and to resist #eing led awa$ #$ the #ad vasana )(rrent! 0hen $o( know that a "arti)(lar vasana is rising (" in $o(r mind, $o( )annot "ossi#l$ sa$ that $o( are at its mer)$! :o( ha.e $o(r wits a#o(t $o( and the res"onsi#ilit$ of de)iding whether $o( will en)o(rage it or not is entirel$ $o(rs! /he sastras en(n)iate in detail what vasanas are good and ha.e to #e en)o(raged and what vasanas are #ad and ha.e to #e o.er)ome! 0hen, #$ dint of "ra)ti)e, $o( ha.e made all $o(r vaasanas good and "ra)ti)all$ eliminated the )han)e of an$ #ad vasanas leading $o( astra$, the sastras take ("on themsel.es the f(n)tion of tea)hing $o( how to free $o(r free-will e.en from the need of #eing led #$ good vasanas. :o( will grad(all$ #e led on to a stage when $o(r free-will will #e entirel$ free from an$ sort of )olo(ring d(e to an$ vasanas. -t that stage, $o(r mind will #e "(re as )r$stal and all moti.e for "arti)(lar a)tion will )ease to #e! 3reedom from the res(lts of "arti)(lar a)tions is an ine.ita#le )onse<(en)e! Both fate and vasana disa""ear! /here is freedom for e.er more and that freedom is )alled moksha.
So(r)e* Dialogues with The Guru )om"iled #$ %! &rishnaswami '$er

47

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

The Utility of God


- $o(ng man, a t$"i)al "rod()t of the modern s$stem of ed()ation, was somehow attra)ted to the "resen)e of 7is 7oliness and was d(l$ introd()ed to him! 'n the )o(rse of the )on.ersation whi)h ens(ed, 7is 7oliness asked him* His Holiness: ' see that $o( ha.e a lot of leis(re! Ma$ ' know how $o( (tilise it> Devotee: ( cannot say that ( utilise it4 it spends itself. HH: D.identl$ $o( are not one of those leis(red "eo"le who )om"lain that time does not "ass! D: 0o. HH: ' am .er$ glad to hear it! 'n fa)t, knowing how "re)io(s e.er$ moment of o(r li.es is, we m(st reall$ )om"lain that time does "ass .er$ <(i)kl$! D: ( do not complain about the passing of time either. HH: 't is onl$ those who waste time that )om"lain of the "assing of time! /hose who feel that their time is well s"ent, ne.er ha.e that )om"laint! 9#.io(sl$ $o( #elong to that )lass! D: ( do not think ( do. ( only know that time has to be spent. Whether it is well spent or ill spent does not affect the inevitable passing of time. "nd there are no absolute standards from which we can say that it has been well spent or ill spent. HH: Certainl$! B(t if time is s"ent in some manner whi)h does not in an$ wa$ dist(r# $o(r e<(ili#ri(m or an$#od$ else@s, it gi.es $o( some mental re"ose! D: !uch a repose is found only in sleep.

48

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: ,(ite so! B(t we )annot slee" alwa$s! 0e seek s()h mental re"ose e.en while awake! 't is not "ossi#le for (s to sit .a)ant minded! 9(r mind has to #e gi.en some work! /he least harmf(l work that we )an gi.e to it is to think, not of the eB)iting things whi)h dist(r# o(r e<(ili#ri(m, nor of )on)rete things whi)h ma$ ha.e a "ersonal relationshi" to o(rsel.es and ma$ therefore tend to eB)ite o(r "assions, #(t to think of a#stra)t things, sa$ a#o(t the origin of the world and s()h other things! D: That will be giving way to mere speculation. HH: 0hat if it is so> :o( h(rt no#od$ #$ it and $o( gi.e $o(r mind some inno)ent work! -nd there are some of (s who think that $o( will #e #enefiting $o(rself there#$! 0hether we are right or not, it does not matter! :o( )annot sa$ that there is an$ harm in s()h s"e)(lation! D: %ut what is the use of it2 HH: 't hel"s $o( to s"end time! 0hat more (se do $o( want> 'f there is some (se, as we sa$, well and good! 'f there is none, $o( do not lose an$thing! 0h$ not therefore $o( s"end some of $o(r time in st(d$ing "hiloso"h$ and allied s(#?e)ts, if onl$ to "ass the time> D: ( have read a few books but ( have found them to #e mere words! HH: 0hat more )an $o( eB"e)t in a #ook> :o( m(st s(""lement it #$ $o(r own thinking! Sin)e $o( ha.e read some #ooks on the s(#?e)t, $o( m(st ha.e formed some idea a#o(t s()h things as the e.ol(tion of the (ni.erse and the eBisten)e of 6od! D: %ooks do not give us any definite ideas. ;ach author adopts his own line of speculation and wants to make out that it is superior to every other <urther in the very nature

49

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

of things it is not possible to form any definite idea about such sub,ects. " writer may present an idea in as definite a form as possible still there can be no finality about it for somebody cleverer than him can prove it to be baseless. HH: /hat is ine.ita#le in all intelle)t(al "ro)esses! -"art from minor differen)es, are the modern thinkers agreed at least on this "oint that, if the world had a #eginning, it had a single (ndifferentiated )a(se from whi)h it took its #irth> D: ( think they are though they postulate the e-act nature of that cause variously. !ome think that there was at the beginning a nebulous mass of atoms. HH: So do o(r tarkikas! 0ere those atoms at rest or were the$ a)ti.e in the "re-)reation stage> D: The scientists now tell us that the atoms are never at rest but are incessantly active and ever stored with energy. HH: -re these "rimar$ atoms )on)ei.ed of as "arti)les of gross matter whi)h are ke"t in motion #$ a for)e o(tside them or are the$ )on)ei.ed of otherwise> D: The latest theory is that the atom is itself a gross form of the infinite energy which is inherent in it. HH: 0hate.er it #e, s)ientists realise that it is energ$ or for)e whi)h gi.es s(#stan)e or eBisten)e to the atom or whi)h r(les its a)ti.ities! D: +es. HH: /he$ will also ha.e to grant that that energ$ is )ommon to all atoms, is homogeneo(s and is infinite! D: +es. HH: -s energ$ )an #e transm(ted, there is no reason to

50

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

s(""ose that the "rimal energ$ in one atom is of a different sort from that in another! D: 1f course not. HH: 9(r h$"othesis will therefore #e .er$ m()h sim"lified if we "ost(late the eBisten)e of a single energ$ or for)e whi)h is infinite in )a"a)it$ and takes on the form of atoms (nder )ertain )onditions! D: The Western scientists also are now appro-imating to that idea. HH: /he$ will ha.e to, if the$ are logi)al! /his infinite for)e then ma$ #e taken to #e the "rime )a(sal material of the (ni.erse> D: +es. HH: B(t the (ni.erse is not mere matter whi)h we )an tra)e to atoms! :o( and ' eBist! -"art from o(r "h$si)al #odies whi)h are, of )o(rse, matter, there is the s"ark of intelligent )ons)io(sness in (s whi)h )annot )ome (nder the )ategor$ of matterA and that also has to #e eB"lained if a )om"lete eB"lanation of the (ni.erse is attem"ted! 7ow do the s)ientists see to eB"lain it> D: The scientists proper concern themselves only with the material universe. HH: B(t there m(st ha.e #een thinkers who ha.e )onsidered the other as"e)t also! D: +es there are some such thinkers but ( do not think that they have postulated a prime cause for the intelligent principle in us. They have answered either that such principles do not e-ist independent of our bodies or that they are eternal and cannot be traced to another cause.

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: 0h$ did the$ not )onsistentl$ ass(me that the world had no #eginning and )annot therefore #e tra)ed to a )a(se> D: The variedness of the world requires some e-planation. HH: So does the .ariedness of o(r so(ls! D: %ereft of e-traneous things there is no reason for our assuming that one soul is different from another. HH: 't is e<(all$ so in matter! Bereft of eBtraneo(s things, there is no reason for o(r ass(ming that one atom of matter is different from another! 'n fa)t, $o( tra)ed all atoms to a "rimar$ )a(sal for)e where there was no .ariedness! D: +es. HH: M$ onl$ "oint is, wh$ don@t $o( )onsistentl$ and for the same reasons "ost(late the eBisten)e of a "rimar$ )a(sal intelligen)e res"onsi#le for the world of infinite so(ls> D: We may do so. HH: /hen, ado"ting the method of s)ientists, we ma$ arri.e at the )on)l(sion that there is a "rimar$ )a(sal for)e res"onsi#le for the (ni.erse of matter and also there is a "rimar$ )a(sal intelligen)e res"onsi#le for the (ni.erse of so(ls! 0e m(st also grant that ea)h of s()h "rimar$ )a(ses has infinite "ower of eB"ression! D: +es no doubt so. HH: 9(r h$"othesis will #e m()h more sim"lified if, instead of ass(ming two "rimar$ )a(ses, we ass(me onl$ one and )hara)terise it as for)e endowed with intelligen)e or as intelligen)e in.ested with for)e! D: $ertainly.

52

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: /hat is eBa)tl$ what we do in o(r "hiloso"h$! 0hen we )on)ei.e of the root )a(se as for)e endowed with intelligen)e, we )all it sakti4 when we )on)ei.e of it as intelligen)e endowed with for)e, we )all it $hit. D: ( see. HH: B(t e.en in this h$"othesis we ha.e the two inde"endent )on)e"tions of for)e and intelligen)e s(#sisting together, tho(gh in intimate )orrelation! D: (t is so. HH: 0e )an still f(rther sim"lif$ o(r h$"othesis if we )an attri#(te to that root )a(se a single )hara)teristi) whi)h is )ommon to #oth for)e and intelligen)e and whi)h )an take on the form of for)e or intelligen)e a))ording as we .iew it from the stand"oint of the (ni.erse of matter or from that of the so(ls! 'n other words, we ma$ "ost(late that root )a(se as (ndifferentiated intelligen)e for)e :$hit-sakti=. We )all that %rahman! -s intelligen)e and for)e are #(t as"e)ts of the same entit$, we )an )hara)terise it onl$ #$ sa$ing that it isA and we therefore sometimes gi.e it the sim"ler name of !at Being! D: %ut all this is only speculation. HH: 't is, if we ignore the sta#le a(thorit$ of the =edas, whi)h en(n)iate and "ro)laim s()h a fa)t! -"art from this, what does it mater if it is onl$ s"e)(lation> -s ' ha.e alread$ mentioned, it h(rts no#od$! D: %ut is that any reason for wasting our brains on this matter2 HH: 't is far #etter than wasting o(r #rains on an$ other matter! 3(rther, there is a great "ositi.e #enefit also! D: What is that2

53

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: S(""ose a man is too fee#le to walkA does it not gladden his heart to know that he has someone who is strong and willing to s(""ort him> -nother man ma$ #e .er$ illA will it not #e some relief to him to know that there is a kind do)tor near at hand to attend to him> -nother still ma$ #e sorel$ tried #$ "o.ert$A will not his tro(#le #e alle.iated #$ his knowing that there is a ri)h and kind relati.e )lose #$ who )an "la)e him a#o.e want> D: $ertainly. HH: D.er$ moment of o(r li.es we are fa)e to fa)e with inn(mera#le )a(ses of sorrowA sometimes ill-health, sometimes "o.ert$ and so on! 0ill it not gladden o(r hearts to know and to feel that there is some#od$ else )lose at hand who )an relie.e (s of the )a(ses of o(r sorrow, and gi.e (s )omfort, if onl$ we ask for it> D: (t is certainly a consoling thought. HH: /here is no (se in looking (" to another si)k man when $o( are si)k or to another "oor man when $o( are "oor! D: $ertainly not. HH: 0e m(st then think of one who is strong and health$ or who is ri)h! D: 1f course. B(t o(r diffi)(lties do not end with illness or "o.ert$> D: 0o. The difficulties to which we are sub,ect are infinite in number. HH: 'n e.er$ one of o(r diffi)(lties, it will #e a relief to know that there eBists a friend who is free from that diffi)(lt$!

54

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: +es. HH: 0e m(st therefore know as man$ s()h free "ersons as the n(m#er of diffi)(lties whi)h tro(#le (s! D: %ut that is not possible as the number of difficulties is infinite. HH: ,(ite so! 't will therefore #e a great relief to (s if we )an find one "erson who is free from all diffi)(lties> D: $ertainly but where are we to find him2 HH: 1eath is one of the tro(#les of this world> D: $ertainly. HH: Birth is e<(all$ a tro(#le> D: >ndoubtedly in fact it is the prime trouble which leads to all other troubles. HH: 't will therefore relie.e (s to know that there is a friend who is not s(#?e)t to #irth or death and )an in addition )(re (s of #oth these ills! D: 9ogically it is so. HH: 9rdinaril$ we are not )ontent with mere freedom from tro(#les, for we want o(r desires to #e satisfiedA and o(r desires are e<(all$ infinite in n(m#er! 0e wo(ld therefore like to ha.e some friend who )an f(lfill all o(r wants! 9(r desires are not onl$ infinite in n(m#er, #(t are also (nlimited in eBtent! 2o ri)h relati.e, howsoe.er wealth$ he ma$ #e, )an (ndertake to f(lfill all o(r desiresA e.en if he had the will, his wealth wo(ld #e eBha(sted in )o(rse of time! 't will therefore #e well if o(r h$"otheti)al friend had ineBha(sti#le wealth! 9ne of $o(r friends ma$ #e .er$ ri)h, #(t he ma$ not ha.e read$ )ash with him when $o( want itA

55

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

in that )ase he )annot gi.e $o( instant relief! 9(r s(""osed friend m(st therefore #e not onl$ all-ri)h #(t he m(st #e so at all times! 3(rther, if $o(r ri)h friend has to await the arri.al of his )ashier or has mislaid the ke$ of his safe, he )annot #e immediatel$ hel"f(l to $o(! 'f $o( ha.e s()h a friend at Mad(ra, $o( )annot ha.e him at M$sore (nless $o( take him there with $o(! 't will )ertainl$ #e more )on.enient if $o(r friend )o(ld #e at an$ "la)e where $o( wanted him, witho(t the need for $o(r taking him there! Pro)eeding on the same line of reasoning, we ma$ sa$ that it wo(ld #e a great relief to $o( to feel that there is a friend e.er read$ to hel" $o(, who )an #e e.er$where with $o(A who )an do an$thing for $o(, who knows e.er$thing, who is himself free from tro(#le of an$ kind whatsoe.er and who has the desire and the a#ilit$ to satisf$ all $o(r wants and to free $o( from all $o(r tro(#les! D: %ut such a friend is a purely hypothetical one2 HH: So what> /o feel, rightl$ or wrongl$, that s()h a friend eBists does gi.e (s relief! 3rom the nat(re of the n(m#erless )hara)teristi)s whi)h we re<(ire in s()h a friend, we m(st "ost(late of him omni"resen)e, omni"oten)e and omnis)ien)e! 0ith o(r limited intelle)t, it is diffi)(lt for (s to )on)ei.e of s()h a friend and im"ossi#le to .is(alise him in a)t(al life! 'f therefore some#od$, who is dee"l$ interested in (s and in whom we "la)e f(ll relian)e, informs (s of the eBisten)e of s()h a friend, we shall feel .er$ greatl$ relie.ed! 'n )ase we ha""en to do(#t the .era)it$ of the statement of o(r informant, we will not #e a#le to "ro.e it wrong #e)a(se with o(r limited intelle)t we ha.e no means of doing so! B(t in )ase we ha.e )om"lete faith in o(r informant, we #e)ome se)(re in the res(ltant feeling of the e.er-tr(e "resen)e of that all-"owerf(l friend! 7e who has or who a)<(ires s()h intense faith )an ha.e no fear of des"air, #elie.ing as he does that that friend #eing all-knowing and all-"owerf(l will

56

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relie.e him of all sorrow when the time )omes! D.en when he does not get an$ relief, he wo(ld )onsole himself with the tho(ght that "erha"s in the all-wise dis"ensation of that friend, this sorrow is itself the #est for him (nder the )ir)(mstan)es! /herefore, a"art from the a#stra)t <(estion whether the eBisten)e of s()h a friend, whom we )all 6od, )an #e "ro.ed or demonstrated, there )an #e no den$ing the fa)t that the #elief in s()h a friend is of great "ra)ti)al #enefit! D: #ow can we believe in a person of whose e-istence there is no "roof2 HH: 1o we #elie.e onl$ in those things whose eBisten)e is "ro.ed> 'f we limit o(r #elief to s()h things it will #e im"ossi#le to do an$thing in this world! 0e ha.e to ha.e faith in the words of e.er$one that )omes into )onta)t with (s! -s a stranger standing #$ the road dire)ts $o(, at $o(r re<(est, to a ho(se $o( are sear)hing for, $o( do not em#ark on an en<(ir$ as to his honest$ or as to the )orre)tness of his knowledgeA #(t, "la)ing immediate and im"li)it relian)e on him, $o( go as dire)ted #$ him! 'f then $o( rea)h the wrong ho(se, it will #e time eno(gh to find fa(lt with him! 'f, howe.er, #efore following his dire)tions $o( want! him to "ro.e to $o( that he is right, the onl$ thing he )an do is to take $o( #$ the hand and lead $o( to the ho(seA e.en then $o( m(st #e "re"ared to go with him! 't will not do if $o( ref(se to mo.e a single ste" and $et eB"e)t him to "ro.e the )orre)tness of his statement! Similarl$, when $o( ha.e a#sol(tel$ no reason to do(#t the good faith of o(r an)ient seers who "ro)laim 6od, $o( m(st #e "re"ared to "la)e im"li)it faith in their words! 'f $o( follow their di)tates and find at the end that the$ were wrong, it will #e time eno(gh then to #lame them, #(t not till then! D: The seers were as much human beings as ourselves. #ow did they happen to know of God when we do not2

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: /he$ did so #e)a(se the$ had im"li)it faith in the words of their tea)hers and earnestl$ followed their instr()tions for the realisation of 6od! D: (f that is the answer further question will arise as to how did those teachers know2 "nd this question will have to be repeated ad infinitum without any finality. HH: Certainl$ so, if we do not grant the eBisten)e of some "rimal "erson who knows the tr(th witho(t the need to learn from another! D: Who is he2 HH: 9(r old friend again, the 9mnis)ient 6od 7imself! /he =edas are 7is #reath and the fo(ntainhead of all right knowledge! 7a.e faith in 6od, 7is words and 7is ser.ants! :o( will feel #efore long an immense relief! /he tho(ght of 7is e.er-li.ing "resen)e with $o( will #e a great sola)e to $o(! 9n)e $o( #egin to feel s()h a "resen)e, a ?o$ (nknown to $o( e.er #efore will #egin to #e felt! -nd $o( will then realise that time is not something to #e merel$ s"ent in some "(rs(it or other, #(t has to #e intensi.el$ li.ed in the "(rs(it and en?o$ment of the #liss of "ea)e! /here will no more #e an$ room for "essimisti) tho(ghts nor will life seem a #lank with no "(r"ose to ser.e!
So(r)e* Dialogues with The Guru )om"iled #$ %! &rishnaswami '$er

The Means of Happiness


'n one of the <(iet .illages where 7is 7oliness was )am"ing for a few da$s, a "art$ of .illagers, in)l(ding Brahamans, )ame one e.ening to "a$ their res"e)ts to him and while doing so their s"okesman said* D: Till some years back our village was a prosperous one.

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

During recent years however it has gone down very much. We pray therefore that your #oliness will be pleased to confer your blessings upon us so that the village may once again get back to its former prosperity. HH: Certainl$ the 8ord will listen to $o(r earnest "ra$ers! B(t ' desire to "oint o(t that an a""eal to the 8ord is ne)essar$ onl$ when the remed$ is not in o(r hands! D: #ow is the remedy in our hands2 HH: :o( tell me that the .illage has gone down in "ros"erit$ d(ring the re)ent $ears! B(t, if m$ information is not in)orre)t, there are more store$ed ho(ses now than #efore and the ho(ses are mostl$ #(ilt in stone, #ri)k and mortar and are well lighted, well .entilated and attra)ti.e, <(ite (nlike the m(d-walled dark and ding$ that)hed h(ts in whi)h $o(r forefathers s"ent their li.es! D: (t is no doubt so. HH: :o( wear )lothes finer and )ostlier than what $o(r an)estors were )ontent with and ha.e .er$ man$ things whi)h the$ ne.er e.en dreamt of D: $ertainly. HH: 0hile the$ tra.eled #$ ri)ket$ )arts along m(dd$ roads to .illages onl$ a few miles awa$, $o( )an now tra.el #$ the #est of motor )ars o.er well-"a.ed roads to "la)es thirt$ times more distant in a#o(t the same time! D: (t is true we have all this. HH: 0hile the$ had to #e )ontent with the oil lam" of lo)al man(fa)t(re to light their ho(ses, $o( get $o(rs from a)ross the seasA $o( ha.e #rilliant lights now, e.en if ele)tri) installations ha.e not $et rea)hed $o(r .illage!

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: 0o doubt we have. HH: /hen what is $o(r )om"laint> :o( ha.e in a#(ndan)e all the re<(isites of )omfort and ha""iness, far more than $o(r an)estors had! 0hat more do $o( want> D: (t is true that we have all these things but the fact remains that we are not as comfortable and happy as our forefathers. HH: 7ow )an that #e> 'f the means of ha""iness ha.e, as $o( admit, in)reased, ha""iness also m(st ha.e in)reased! 't )annot "ossi#l$ #e red()ed in an$ )ase! D: (t is however reduced and we desire to know how we can regain the old happy state. HH: /hen we m(st en<(ire into the matter a little dee"er! /here m(st #e something wrong somewhere! 'f, as $o( admit, the means of ha""iness ha.e in)reased, the onl$ "ossi#le logi)al )on)l(sion is, either that we are wrong in the ass(m"tion of the real means of ha""iness, ass(ming that the$ are real means! 0e shall first )onsider whether the modern im"ro.ements that $o( now en?o$ are reall$ the means of ha""iness! 9rdinaril$, we ded()e the relationshi" of )a(se and effe)t #etween two things if one of them in.aria#l$ "re)edes the other! /his method is "ositi.e and is known as the anvaya method! /he negati.e method is known as vyatireka that is, when we ded()e the relationshi" of )a(se and effe)t #etween two things #$ noti)ing that the a#sen)e of the one in.aria#l$ "re)edes the a#sen)e of the other! 0e note that the eBisten)e of wet )la$ in.aria#l$ "re)edes the making of a )la$ "ot! 0e note also that if no wet )la$ is a.aila#le no )la$ "ot )an #e made! 0e infer from these two "arallel and )orro#orating fa)ts that wet )la$ is the )a(se and the "ot is the effe)t! Similarl$, if we want to .erif$ the statement that the modern ad.antages are the )a(se of ha"-

60

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

"iness, we m(st ado"t these two methods! 2ow $o( find that $o( en?o$ these modern amenities and $et ha.e no ha""iness> D: (t is so. HH: /hat means that the reasoning #$ the anvaya method does not lead $o( to the )on)l(sion that the$ are related as )a(se and effe)t! D: (t seems so. HH: :o( f(rther admit that $o(r forefathers did not ha.e these modern amenities and $et were ha""$! D: They were. HH: /his again means that the reasoning #$ the vyatireka method also does not esta#lish s()h a relationshi"! D: (t is so. HH: 't follows therefore that the modern amenities are not the real means of ha""iness! D: 9ogically it does. HH: B(t we do want ha""iness> D: $ertainly. HH: 0e m(st not therefore sto" with merel$ throwing o.er#oard the ad.antages that we ha.e, #(t m(st seek to know what are the real means of ha""iness and tr$ to o#tain them! D: 0o doubt but what are those means2 HH: /hat is eBa)tl$ the <(estion to #e )onsidered now! -do"ting the same line of reasoning, we m(st as)ertain what

61

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

means were "resent when o(r an)estors were ha""$ and what is a#sent in (s now when we are not ha""$! D: $ertainly but what is that2 HH: /hink for a while $o(rself the$ "erformed their dail$ =edi) rites and attended "(n)tilio(sl$ to the di)tates of the Dharma sastras! 1id the$ not> D: $ertainly they did. HH: 2ow, $o( negle)t them, don@t $o(> D: ( fear we do. HH: /he$ had achara or right )ond()t and had great regard for .irt(es like tr(th! :o( )annot sa$ that $o( ha.e s()h a )ond()t or s()h a regard! D: ( must confess we have not. HH: 0h$ did the$ "erform their religio(s d(ties so well and wh$ do $o( negle)t them> D: ( suppose the times are responsible for it. HH: /hat is a lame eB)(se and eB"lains nothing! /he tr(th is that $o( are wanting in the faith that $o(r an)estors had! D: That is true. HH: 't seems, therefore, that "eo"le were ha""$ when the$ had faith and a)ted a))ording to it and that "eo"le are not ha""$ when the$ are wanting in faith and negle)t their d(ties! D: +es. HH: !raddha or faith and Dharma or right a)tion are th(s in.aria#l$ "resent where ha""iness is fo(nd and are in.ari-

62

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

a#l$ a#sent where ha""iness is not fo(nd! /he$ are therefore the )a(se of ha""iness! 6et them #a)k and $o( will get #a)k $o(r ha""iness! D: %ut we see even now that there are a large number of people who have sraddha and stick to their Dharma but are no more happy than ourselves. HH: /hat is not )orre)t! 't ma$ #e that the$ are not in as affl(ent )ir)(mstan)es as others #(t, as ' ha.e "ointed o(t, that is no )riterion of their ha""iness! 7a""iness is a state of mind and )annot #e ga(ged #$ the <(alit$ or <(antit$ of eBternal "ossessions! - "erson ma$ #e the lord of all the three worlds and $et #e (nha""$ another ma$ #e the "oorest of #eggars and $et #e the ha""iest man in the world! D: ( quite see it. 1n what then does happiness depend2 HH: 9rdinaril$ s"eaking, we sa$ that we are ha""$ when we get the thing we are longing for! D: +es. HH: -t the time when we are longing for a thing, o(r mind is in a state of (nrestA #(t when we get that thing, the state of (nrest is re"la)ed #$ a sense of rest or "ea)e! D: +es. HH: 0e sa$, again, that we are ha""$ when we get rid of a thing whi)h we were loathing! D: +es. HH: -t the time when we are loathing a thing, o(r mind is in a state of (nrestA #(t when we get rid of that thing, the state of (nrest is re"la)ed #$ a sense of rest or "ea)e!

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

D: +es. HH: 'n either )ase, therefore, it wo(ld seem that ha""iness is "ra)ti)all$ identi)al with the feeling of rest or "ea)e! 't does not matter what eBa)tl$ is the immediate o))asion for it, whether it #e the o#taining of a desira#le o#?e)t or the getting rid of an (ndesira#le o#?e)t! 7a""iness follows when a "re)eding state of (nrest is ended! D: (t is so. HH: 't )annot matter also how that "re)eding state of (nrest is ended! 9#taining a thing or getting rid of another is the ordinar$ method of sto""ing the (nrest! B(t, if there is some other method #$ whi)h it )an #e sto""ed, e.en then ha""iness is #o(nd to follow! D: $ertainly. HH: /he n(m#er of things in the world that )an awaken desire is infinite! 'f a man gets a "arti)(lar thing, the mental (nrest )a(sed #$ the longing for that thing ma$ )ease, #(t it will onl$ #e re"la)ed #$ another mental (nrest )a(sed #$ the longing for another thing! /he "ro)ess will #e re"eating itself ad infinitum as there is no limit to the n(m#er of things whi)h )an #e desired! 't is therefore "ra)ti)all$ im"ossi#le to o#tain a#sol(te mental rest #$ tr$ing to satisf$ o(r longings! Similarl$, the n(m#er of things that are (ndesira#le is also infinite! 'f $o( get rid of a "arti)(lar (ndesira#le o#?e)t, no do(#t $o( get mental "ea)e for the momentA #(t the neBt moment $o( will #e)ome restless, #e)a(se another thing will #e tro(#ling $o(! /he "ro)ess here also will #e going on indefinitel$ and intermina#l$ as the things that ma$ gi.e (s tro(#le in the world are )o(ntless! 't is e<(all$ im"ossi#le therefore to o#tain a#sol(te mental rest #$ tr$ing to get rid of or a.oiding tro(#lesome things! D: %ut we do want mental peace.

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

HH: ,(ite so! 'f, therefore, we seek to alla$ o(r (nrest #$ tr$ing to se)(re the things whi)h the mind asks for or to get rid of the things whi)h dist(r# it, we m(st e.er remain sear)hing for "ea)e, whi)h ne.er )an #e attained! 't m(st also #e #orne in mind that it is not <(ite within o(r )om"eten)e to o#tain or get rid of a "arti)(lar thing at o(r "leas(reA in fa)t, we are sla.es of )ir)(mstan)es, if we de"end ("on them for o(r ha""iness! D: #ow else then are we to get "ea)e and happiness2 HH: 's it a ne)essar$ )ondition of health that it m(st ha.e #een "re)eded #$ a state of ill-health> D: $ertainly not. HH: - man is said to #e health$ when he has no si)kness! 7e need not ha.e #een si)k #efore! D: 0o. HH: 't will therefore, #e foolish to define a health$ man as one who has s(ffered from a disease and is now free from it! Certainl$ s()h a man ma$#e )alled health$ #(t the eB"ression @health$ man )annot #e a""lied to him! 3reedom from si)kness is a )ondition of health #(t )ertainl$ not an ante)edent si)kness and a re)o.er$ from it! D: /uite so. %ut ( fail to see the relevancy here. HH: Similarl$, ha""iness )an onl$ mean a freedom from (nha""inessA it )annot #e a ne)essar$ )ondition of ha""iness that it sho(ld ha.e #een "re)eded #$ a state of (nha""iness! - man whose mental e<(ili#ri(m has #een dist(r#ed #$ an attra)tion to a "arti)(lar thing or #$ a re"(lsion to another ma$ #e )alled ha""$ when the e<(ili#ri(m is on)e again restored #$ the thing #eing o#tained or got rid of, as the )ase ma$ #e! B(t, it will #e foolish to sa$ that all ha""iness ne)es-

65

Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

saril$ ass(mes a "re.io(s state of (nrest! D: (t will be so. HH: -s we )an )on)ei.e of health witho(t ass(ming a "re)eding si)kness, so m(st we #e a#le to )on)ei.e of ha""iness witho(t ass(ming a "re)eding mental (nrest! 'n fa)t, the health whi)h is not "re)eded #$ a si)kness is more nat(ral, "erfe)t and "ermanent than the one whi)h )omes into #eing on the )essation of a si)kness! Similarl$, the ha""iness whi)h is not "re)eded #$ a mental dist(r#an)e will #e more nat(ral, "erfe)t and end(ring than the one whi)h follows a mental dist(r#an)e! D: (t is bound to be so. %ut how can we get such a happiness2 1rdinarily we get it only by seeking pleasure or avoiding pain2 HH: ,(ite so! B(t, if there is a third method #$ whi)h $o( )an ha.e ha""iness witho(t (ndergoing the ante)edent tro(#le of seeking "leas(re or a.oiding "ain, $o( will agree with me that the ha""iness th(s se)(red will #e more "erfe)t! D: $ertainly but what is that third method2 HH: 't is onl$ this! Merel$ )ease to s(#mit $o(rself to that ante)edent tro(#le! D: #ow can we do that2 HH: Man is and remains health$ when he ref(ses to s(#mit himself to an$thing whi)h ma$ )a(se si)kness! 's it not so> D: +es. HH: Similarl$, man )an #e ha""$ #$ ref(sing to s(#mit himself to an$thing whi)h ma$ dist(r# his mental e<(ili#ri(m and make him (nha""$! 't is onl$ an a""li)ation of the maBim

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

that "re.ention is #etter than )(re! 3or )alling $o(rself )lean, it is not ne)essar$ that $o( di" $o(r hands in mire and then wash it off! D: ( now understand that the happiness which results from attraction or repulsion is not real happiness. &eal happiness is only that which is the concomitant of mental equipoise unrelated to any attraction or repulsion. HH: ,(ite so! D: %ut how can we acquire and retain such a mental equipoise in the midst of this vast universe of things which either attract or repel2 HH: -n$how, this is )ertainl$ a more "ra)ti)al method than the one of tr$ing to eBha(st the ineBha(sti#le store of things, desira#le and (ndesira#le! D: This method may be foolish but the other does not seem to be practical. HH: 0h$ not> S(""ose $o( ha.e a#o(t twent$ arti)les in $o(r room e.er$ one of whi)h is likel$ to distra)t $o( #$ its .er$ sight! 0hi)h is the more "ra)ti)al method, to "re"are )ases for en.elo"ing e.er$ one of them or to sh(t $o(r e$es> D: $ertainly the latter is easier. HH: Similarl$, it is im"ossi#le for $o( to reg(late, modif$, annihilate or )reate at $o(r "leas(re the infinite things of the (ni.erse whi)h are likel$ to dist(r# $o(! B(t $o( )an so reg(late $o(r own mind that it ma$ grad(all$ )ease to #e dist(r#ed #$ them! /his is <(ite within $o(r )om"eten)e! :o(r forefathers were ha""$, not #e)a(se the$ had more o#?e)ts of "leas(re or less )a(ses of tro(#le, #(t #e)a(se the$ were a#le to retain their mental e<(ili#ri(m, whi)h ga.e them rest, "ea)e and )ontentment and, therefore, ha""iness! /he$

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

did not de"end ("on o(tside things to make them ha""$, nor did the$ )on)ede to o(tside things the )a"a)it$ to make them (nha""$! /heir feeling of rest and "ea)e, )ontentment and ha""iness, was normal, nat(ral and health$ and, therefore, lasting! :o( m(st also )(lti.ate that feeling if $o( want to #e ha""$! S()h a feeling is #orn and ingrained in the %rahmana es"e)iall$, and if he negle)ts it and seeks ha""iness in the o(tside world, he is serio(sl$ im"airing his )han)es of getting it again in the neBt #irth, for 6od will #e <(ite ?(stified in withholding a gift whi)h the donee does not a""re)iate at its "ro"er .al(e when he has it with him! 2e.er let go $o(r #irthright or svabhava of )ontentment and ne.er gi.e the go-#$ to $o(r sva-dharma or d(t$! D.er$thing will right itself in d(e )o(rse! Make honest and sin)ere attem"t to regain and retain $o(r brahmaniam in the firm faith that 6od is e.er with $o( to hel" $o(! D: We shall try our best but these happen to be very bad days for the %rahmanas. HH: 0hen did the #ad da$s #egin> :o( m(st #ear that also in $o(r mind! /he$ #egan when the %rahmanas swer.ed from their achara and Dharma and entered the field of )om"etition in the "(rs(it of worldl$ things! /he$ forgot that the$ were most (ngratef(ll$ mis(sing the heritage of ages! /he others, who were left #ehind the %rahmanas in this ra)e, first looked ("on them with admiration and later on with en.$ and now with hatred! 8et the Brahmanas withdraw from this ra)e the$ will on)e again regain and )ommand the res"e)t whi)h is their d(e! /he$ )ommanded res"e)t #efore, not #e)a(se the$ were ri)her or stronger than others, #(t #e)a(se of their )ontentment, whi)h made them ha""ier than the ri)hest and #e)a(se of their Dharma, whi)h made them stronger than the strongest! /he so-)alled #ad da$s are therefore onl$ of o(r own making! 0e )an at an$ moment "(t an end to them, so far as e.er$ one of (s is )on)erned, #$ re-

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

.erting to the sim"le faith and the ("right )ond()t, the religio(s fer.o(r and the "ea)ef(l )ontentment of o(r fathers! ' think that the #ad da$s will t(rn o(t to #e reall$ (sef(l and not after all #ad, if the$ #(t make the %rahmanas realise the de"th of their fall from their tr(e ideal and ind()e them to make honest endea.o(r to re)o.er it!
So(r)e* 1ialog(es with /he 6(r( )om"iled #$ %!&rishnaswami '$er

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GLOSSARY OF SA S!R"T WORDS


-C7-%- G %ight )ond()t! -C7-%:- G - s"irit(al g(ide, one who has mastered the )odes of a)hara (right )ond()t , o#ser.es them himself and makes others o#ser.e them "ro"erl$! -17-%M- G Cond()t o""osed to DharmaA a)tion "rohi#ited #$ the Sastras! -17-=- G - woman witho(t h(s#and! -17'&-%- G Com"eten)$, ne)essar$ <(alifi)ation re<(isite for a "arti)(lar )o(rse of st(d$ or "ra)ti)e! -1'/:- G /he S(n 6od, son of -diti! -1%'S7/- G 8iterall$, (nseen! Parti)(larl$ a""lied to the (nseen store of "ast karma whi)h is #e$ond o(r .ision till it manifests itself! "dvaita G 8iterall$, non-d(al! /he name is a""lied to the s$stem of tho(ght known as non-d(alism "ro"o(nded in the 5"anishads and eB"o(nded #$ Sri Sankara)har$a! -62'79/%- G /he dail$ sa)rifi)e in fire en?oined #$ the =edas!

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

-2-21- G Bliss! -2/-%:-M' G /he inner %(ler! /he name a""lied to th-e 6odhead when )on)ei.ed of as )ontrolling the entire (ni.erse from within! -25M-2- G /he "ro)ess of reasoning, inferen)e! -2=-:- G /he method of reasoning #$ whi)h we ded()e the relationshi" of )a(se and effe)t #etween two things #$ "er)ei.ing that the eBisten)e of one of them is in.aria#l$ "re)eded #$ the eBisten)e of the other! -S/'&- G 9ne who grants the eBisten)e of 1! 6od, 2! 9ther regions of eB"erien)e, and 3! 9ther #irths than the "resent one! -S/'&:-M G /he state of #eing an -stika, a #elie.er! B7-E-2- G 6enerall$, worshi"! Parti)(larl$ a""lied to a set of de.otional eBer)ises (s(all$ a))om"anied #$ m(si)! B7-&/- G - de.otee! B7-&/' G 1e.otion! B7%-M- G Mis)on)e"tion, ill(sion, wrong knowledge! B7-SM- G Sa)red ashes! B%-7M- G /he name gi.en to the -#sol(te when .iewed as the )reator of the (ni.erse! 7e is )on)ei.ed of in de.otional literat(re as ha.ing his s"e)ial a#ode in the region known as Sat$a 8oka! B%-7M-C7-%:- G St(dentshi", "rimaril$ for the st(d$ of the .edas! B%-7M-2 G /he 5ltimate %eatit$ whose essential )hara)teristi)s are a#sol(te eBisten)e, a#sol(te )ons)io(sness and

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

a#sol(te #liss and whi)h trans)ends all limitations! B%-7M-2- G - mem#er of the )lass of that name among the fo(r main )lasses into whi)h 7ind( so)iet$ is )lassified in the sastras, namel$ Brahmana, &shatri$a, =ais$a and S(dra! B%-7M-2:-M G /he s"irit(al stat(s of a Brahmana! B%-7M-2-21- G /he #liss of the -#sol(te Self! C7-%=-&- G 8iterall$, sweet-tong(ed! - materialist a))ording to whom this #od$ is the Self, its gratifi)ation the goal of life and its dissol(tion sal.ation! C7'/ G Cons)io(sness, intelligent "rin)i"le! C7'/-S-&/' G gen)e-)(m-for)e! Cons)io(sness-energ$, intelli-

1D=- G 8iterall$, a shining one, a )elestial #eing (mas)(line ! 1D=-/- G Same as deva or 1e.i! 1D=' G 8iterall$, a shining one, a )elestial #eing (feminine ! 17-%M- G /he essential or ordained f(n)tion, d(t$ as en?oined in the S)ri"t(res! 6enerall$, the law go.erning or reg(lating )ond()t! 17-%M'&- G 9ne who )onforms to Dharma in his )ond()t! 1='B7-S7' G 8iterall$, a#le to s"eak two lang(ages! Corr("ted into 1(#ash! - "erson who )an a)t as an inter"reter #etween two "ersons who do not (nderstand ea)h other@s lang(age! 6-2DS- G /he 6od of learning!

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

62:-2- G &nowledge! Parti)(larl$, the knowledge of the -#sol(te %ealit$ leading to freedom from "henomenal life! 69P'C7-21-2- G - s"e)ial kind of light $ellow m(d, sa)red to =isn(! 7'%-2:-6-%B7- G /he name gi.en to the first #om, that is, the #eing that )omes into eBisten)e at the #eginning of )reation and who enli.ens and enso(ls the entire (ni.erse! 'S0-%- G /he -#sol(te %ealit$ .iewed in its relati.e as"e)t as the 8ord of the (ni.erse! E'=- G /he indi.id(al so(l #$ whose "resen)e the #od$ is said to li.e! &-8' :56- G /he "resent 7ind( era, said to ha.e #eg(n a#o(t 31HH B!C! &-M- G 1esire! Parti)(larl$ desire for sense gratifi)ation! &-2:- G -n (nmarried girl! &-%M- G -)tion! S"e)iall$, res"onsi#le a)tion, good or e.il! /he name is also a""lied to the (nseen effe)t of a)tion alread$ done whi)h is awaiting manifestation! &-%M'C G Pertaining to karma! 89B7- G Miserliness! 1isin)lination to "art with what one has, sometimes (sed also to signif$ the longing for what one has not! 6reed! 89&- G %egion of eB"erien)e, a world! 895&'&- G - worldl$ "erson! M-:- G /he ins)r(ta#le "ower of %rahman res"onsi#le for all di.ersit$! /he differentiating "rin)i"le )on)ei.ed of as the "ower inherent in the -#sol(te!

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

M9&S7- G 8iterall$, release! 3reedom from all #ondage, that is, final li#eration leading to the state of (nlimited eBisten)e, (nlimited )ons)io(sness and (nlimited #liss! M-/7- G - "la)e where a sann$asin (re)l(se resides! monaster$ in general! 2-S/'&- G 9ne who denies the eBisten)e of all the following* 1! 6od, 2! 9ther regions of eB"erien)e and 3! 9ther #irths than the "resent one! /-%&- G /he s)ien)e of logi)! /-%&'&- G - logi)ian! 5P-2-:-2- G 8iterall$, taking near! /he initiation )eremon$ done for the #o$s of the twi)e-#orn )astes among the 7ind(s to <(alif$ them for the st(d$ of the =edas! 5P-S-2- G 8iterall$, sitting near! 9ne-"ointed de.otion! 5P-S:- G /he o#?e)t of de.otion! 5P-S:- 1D=-/- G /he "arti)(lar 6od who is the o#?e)t of de.otion! =-'1'&- G 9ne who has st(died the =edas and reg(lates his )ond()t a))ording to them! =-%- G - #ridegroom! =-%--S58&- G /he fee "aid to se)(re a #ridegroom! =-S-2- G /he res(ltant tenden)$ left #$ an a)tion or an eB"erien)e whi)h generates the taste for or fa)ilitates f(rther a)tion or eB"erien)e of the same sort! 3a)ilit$ or taste! =-S-2- S-%'/ G - stream of tenden)ies! =D1- G /he "rimar$ 7ol$ S)ri"t(res of the 7ind(s #elie.ed

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Dialogues with The Guru -- Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal

to #e eternal! =D1-2/- G 8iterall$, the last "ortions of =edas namel$ the 5"anishads! 1eri.ati.el$, the "hiloso"h$ en(n)iated therein! ='17-=- G - woman who has lost her h(s#and! ='1:- G &nowledge! ='SDS7- G S"e)ial, "arti)(lar! ='S725 G /he name gi.en to the -#sol(te when .iewed as the s(stainer of the (ni.erse! 7e is )on)ei.ed of in de.otional literat(re as ha.ing 7is s"e)ial a#ode in the region known as =aik(ntha! ='=-7- G Sa)rament of marriage! =:-/'%D&- G /he method of reasoning #$ whi)h we ded()e the relationshi" of )a(se and effe)t #etween two things #$ "er)ei.ing that the non-eBisten)e of the one is in.aria#l$ "re)eded #$ the non-eBisten)e of the other! :-6- G Sa)rifi)ial worshi" ordained in the sastras. --oo9oo--

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