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ED Forums English Digital Combat Simulator DCS: A-10C Warthog QNH, QFE, QNE and QFF explained! :)
Page 1 of 2 1 2 > 06-29-2011, 01:56 AM
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#1 QNH, QFE, QNE and QFF explained! :)

Slothface
Junior Member

I posted the below in another thread but thought it actually might be of benefit as a thread of its own to help explain things for those who are interested in the who, what where and why! Please bear in mind I'm no instructor and my way of explaining things might not be as clear or easy to understand as I'd hoped. But please read and enjoy. Apologies for inaccuracies. I'm quoting what I can remember from my own past studies. Also, apologies if this has been covered before. I haven't found a thread similar and maybe it will spark interest or resolve misunderstandings to a new wave of simmers. Enjoy! -----------------------------------------------------------------------There is a lot of confusion for peeps as to what QNH, QFE, QNE and QFF settings all mean. Not sure if it's been explained before but I'll just do a quick info filler post for those new to altimeter pressure functions. Its a lot of info to take in but hopefully will ease the pain and I will summarise at the end. History -These 'Q codes' originate from days way back when. Voice radio was hard to make out clearly at times, especially on HF frequencies. The reversion back to using morse code was then required to establish a clear method of communication. These Q codes were a set of 3 letters beginning with a Q. They were set up to transmit a sentence quickly with just morsing 3 letters. The Q originally was to signify a question. QRB = What is your distance. QRC = what is your true bearing etc. As the codes developed they also incorporated statements such as QFE = Pressure at particular observation station (an airfield/port/oil rig/etc). Just out of interest, Q codes reserved for aviation use are QAAQNZ. There are reserved sets of codes for maritime and sets used by all services. Q codes we use on a day to day basis in aviation relate to headings too, QDM, QDR, QTE, QFU and QUJ. They all have a standard meaning attached to them and allowed the old morse operators to transmit info far more quickly. I wont go into these in this thread... maybe another future thread if there is enough interest

Join Date: May 2011 Location: UK Posts: 79 Reputation power: 3

So, history lesson out the way... what do the pressure setting Q codes actually mean? -----------------------------------------------------------------------QNH = The pressure measured at station then reduced down to mean sea level pressure. When set on your altimeter it will read your ALTITUDE. Sat on the tarmac at your airfield the altimeter will display the airfields elevation above mean sea level. This is the most commonly used pressure setting in the commercial world. Its probably the most useful setting to have, as nearly all aviation references to elevation are in relation to mean sea level. The mountain peaks on a map, airfield elevation, target elevation, minimum safe altitudes enroute etc. Incidently, QNH is given as a regional pressure setting and should be updated with new ones if you leave its area of reference into a new QNH pressure region. The QNH is the LOWEST FORECAST pressure at mean sea level for a given day to ensure that safe terrain seperation is maintained regardless of the days variation in pressure. -----------------------------------------------------------------------QFE = Is mean sea level pressure corrected for temperature, adjusted for a specific site or datum like an airfield, being the most obvious example. When this is set on your altimeter, it will read your HEIGHT not altitude. It will read zero at airfield elevation and after take off will read your HEIGHT above that specific airfield. If you fly to another airfield of different elevation and/or different QFE pressure, you will have to ensure you reset that particular airfields QFE if you want your altimeter to read zero on touchdown. QFE is very good for new pilots who are remaining in the circuit around an airfield and keeps things simple for that task. -----------------------------------------------------------------------QFE Example: Airfield A with elevation 250ft above mean sea level. Airfield B elevation 300ft AMSL. A to B = 10miles. Assuming a uniform atmospheric pressure in the region. Take off from A, altimeter reads 0ft on runway and after take-off reads HEIGHT above airfield A. Go and land at B and your altimeter will read 50ft on the runway. This is because B's HEIGHT is 50ft higher then A. In this example, if we set the regional QNH, then the altimeter will read ALTITUDE and therefore the airfields

altitude AMSL. Airfield A, altimeter will read 250ft. Airfield B will read 300ft. This is why QNH is the primary pressure setting used in aviation at lower levels. It is far simpler working in a setting that gives ALTITUDE, so you can reference your vertical position from everything on a map or chart. (All airfield plates (charts) have their altitudes AMSL on the plate.) -----------------------------------------------------------------------This is all good and well knowing that QNH is the best pressure setting to use in a region for vertical situational awareness. But it is not always possible to get the regional pressure setting QNH from accurate means and a reliable network of meteo stations. Remote airfields and isolated combat zones are just 2 examples where it'd be difficult to get an accurate QNH when you dont have access to good forecasts and numerous pressure sensing stations. If pressure info isn't available then you can get QFE easily by selecting an altimeter setting that reads zero on the airfield. The number in the altimeter pressure window is your QFE. To get QNH, you just need to know your elevation AMSL and set that in your altimeter. Airfield elevation = 250ft. Set altimeter to read 250ft. Pressure in the altimeter pressure window shows your QNH. (You have to remember that this wont be the lowest forecast QNH pressure for the day and just be cautious at low level. But thats why a radio altimeter is handy!) -----------------------------------------------------------------------There are 2 other Q codes used for aviation pressure settings QNE = the Internation Standard Atmosphere (ISA). It is the average mean sea level pressure around the globe. It is planet earths mean atmospheric pressure at sea level basically. This pressure setting is refered to as STANDARD in aviation. STANDARD is set from QNH when climbing up through the "Transition Level". Your altimeter will then read your FLIGHT LEVEL. A reading of 25,000ft is FL250. 5,000ft = FL050. 13,500ft = FL135. -----------------------------------------------------------------------The last one isn't really used in day to day aviation knowingly by pilots. To avoid info overload I have hidden it if you feel the above is alread a lot to digest
Spoiler:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------Summary QNH = Altitude (AMSL) QNE = Flight Level QFE = Height (AGL) QFF = Not used for altimeter settings In reality, QNH and STANDARD are the 2 most commonly used pressure settings. The other 2 - QFE is good for very local aerial work such as circuits at a specific airfield but not much use for wide area flight. QFF is used in meteorological weather charts.

Hope this helps at least one person out there Fly fast, take risks! Happy flying! -----------------------------------------------------------------------__________________ 74th_Sloth "You get enough sleep when you're dead!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------TM WH HOTAS, TM Cougar MFDs, TrackIR 5 Pro Processor: i5 2.67Ghz Board: Intel DP55WB Video: ATi HD5770 1Gb GDDR5 RAM: 8Gb DDR3 1333MHz OS: Win7
Last edited by Slothface; 06-29-2011 at 01:51 PM.

06-29-2011, 03:18 AM #2

Tyger
Senior Member

Thanks for an excellent tutorial! Much clearer, thanks. 'T' __________________

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06-29-2011, 03:27 AM #3

Fish
Member Quote:

Originally Posted by Slothface .....Hope this helps.............

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Yes it does. Many thanks. __________________ Fish's DCS A10 Tutorial Videos Win7 Ultimate 64 | E2500K@4.5gig | P8Z68V-Pro | 8gig dual DDR3 PC3-16000 | 2x500gp SataII in Raid0 | Sapphire 5870 1gb | ber2Cougar6816|CHProPedals|SaitekP8000|HPZR24w24"1920x1200TFT,HANNS-G 19" | VAC | TS3 | TIR5 & clip | BMS | FC/FC2 | ROF | DCS BS | IL2 1946 | ARMA II | Sennheiser PC350 headset

06-29-2011, 05:12 AM #4

Ryrrar
Member Join Date: Oct 2010

Awesome read, thanks a ton. One question, and excuse me if your explanation explains it, but maybe I need it in more simpler terms? lol

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QNE = the Internation Standard Atmosphere (ISA). It is the average mean sea level pressure around the globe. It is planet earths mean atmospheric pressure at sea level basically. This pressure setting is refered to as STANDARD in aviation. STANDARD is set from QNH when climbing up through the "Transition Level". Your altimeter will then read your FLIGHT LEVEL. A reading of 25,000ft is FL250. 5,000ft = FL050. 13,500ft = FL135. How do you set the QNE? What altimeter setting is it? Is it the 2992 setting once you hit 25k?

06-29-2011, 06:05 AM #5

Innerloop
Member

Thanks a lot! __________________ System Specs: ASUS P6T Deluxe, Intel Core i7 920 OC @ 3.8Ghz, Corsair Hydro H70, MSI GeForce GTX 580 OC Twin FrozR II 1536MB, Corsair Dominator 6GB 1600Mhz, Corsair PSU 1000W, Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD, WD 1TB Caviar Black, Coolermaster

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06-29-2011, 09:34 AM #6

Slothface
Junior Member Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryrrar Awesome read, thanks a ton. One question, and excuse me if your explanation explains it, but maybe I need it in more simpler terms? lol
Join Date: May 2011 Location: UK Posts: 79 Reputation power: 3

How do you set the QNE? What altimeter setting is it? Is it the 2992 setting once you hit 25k? No such thing as a stupid question ISA for STANDARD/QNE is exactly this: 1 ISA atmosphere = 1.01325 bar. In aviation we use millibars abbreviated as mb (which is exactly the same value as Hectopascals abbreviated as HPa). The US use inches of mercury (inHg)

1.01325 bars = 1013.25 Millibars (mb) (Hectopascals (HPa)) So STANDARD/QNE pressure setting is 1013mb on an alitimeter BUT... As this sim aircraft is american, it will use inHg for pressure settings so... ISA for STANDARD/QNE is exactly this: 1 ISA atmosphere = 29.92126 inches of Mercury. So STANDARD/QNE pressure setting is 29.92inHg on the A-10C alitimeter. So basically Ryrrar, 2992 is correct! __________________ 74th_Sloth "You get enough sleep when you're dead!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------TM WH HOTAS, TM Cougar MFDs, TrackIR 5 Pro Processor: i5 2.67Ghz Board: Intel DP55WB Video: ATi HD5770 1Gb GDDR5 RAM: 8Gb DDR3 1333MHz OS: Win7
Last edited by Slothface; 06-29-2011 at 10:10 AM.

06-29-2011, 09:37 AM #7

Slothface
Junior Member

Thanks for the positive feedback guys! __________________ 74th_Sloth "You get enough sleep when you're dead!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------TM WH HOTAS, TM Cougar MFDs, TrackIR 5 Pro Processor: i5 2.67Ghz Board: Intel DP55WB Video: ATi HD5770 1Gb GDDR5 RAM: 8Gb DDR3 1333MHz OS: Win7

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06-29-2011, 09:39 AM #8

=4c=Nikola
Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 260 Reputation power: 8

@Slothface: well done, just to add, beside is used on very local aerial work, QFE have much more usage in Russia. Actually, in commercial aviation, they use QFE instead QNH (that is used in rest of europe). And little more about measure systems. There are 3 the most common measure systems for pressure: Hectopascal (hPa) is in usage in Europe mostly. Standard QNE pressure is 1013.25hPa Inches of mercury (inHg) is in usage in US and Canada. Standard QNE pressure is 29.92inHg Millimeters of mercury (mmHg) is in usage in Russia mostly. Standard QNE is 760mmHg In commercial airplanes, usually you can switch from one system to another, but in Hog, there is only inHg measurement scale so we have to use it And yea, in US, ATC use word "altimeter" instead of QNH , but difference is only unit of measurement: altimeter is usually expressed in inHg, and QNH is expressed in hPa (most commonly).

06-29-2011, 09:49 AM #9

Slothface
Junior Member

@ =4c=Nikola: Thanks for that! I didn't know that about Russian aviation. Another interesting point I guess would be to point out the Rusky's and Chinamen of this world (basically all the Commies ), use metrics - METERS instead of FEET for their altimeter scales. I guess most of you who converted from the Black Shark would have noticed __________________ 74th_Sloth

Join Date: May 2011 Location: UK Posts: 79 Reputation power: 3

"You get enough sleep when you're dead!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------TM WH HOTAS, TM Cougar MFDs, TrackIR 5 Pro Processor: i5 2.67Ghz Board: Intel DP55WB Video: ATi HD5770 1Gb GDDR5 RAM: 8Gb DDR3 1333MHz OS: Win7


06-29-2011, 10:38 AM #10

=4c=Nikola
Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 260 Reputation power: 8 Quote:

Originally Posted by Slothface @ =4c=Nikola: Thanks for that! I didn't know that about Russian aviation. Another interesting point I guess would be to point out the Rusky's and Chinamen of this world (basically all the Commies ), use metrics - METERS instead of FEET for their altimeter scales. I guess most of you who converted from the Black Shark would have noticed Yea, in Russia (and China I guess), they use Meters instead of Feet, Km/h instead of knots, Vertical speed in meters per second instead of feet/min, mmHg instead of inHg and hPa... It can be stressful for pilots flying from Europe and US to Russia. I'll try to explain "why all that different settings of altimeter?" and "why there is standard pressure value?" questions. QNE STANDARD pressure is introduced because there are lot of aircraft up in the sky and everyone haves at least one altimeter. So, if every pilot use different altimeter pressure setting, there is potential crash. Why? For example 2 aircrafts are flying on same altitude on collision course. So, they established radio communication, first pilot look at his altimeter, and report he is at 20k ft. Second pilot look at his altimeter and report 21k ft. They think they have 1000ft separation (minimum by law), but BANG! mid-air collision! SO what was wrong? Just tiny detail: altimeters was set at different pressures so they operated in different systems and displayed different altitudes. To prevent that, some smart guys introduced common pressure for all flights - QNE. So, when you report your altitude and fly at QFE pressure, you should use FLIGHT LEVEL (FL) phrase (example: 25000 ft is FL250) because its not altitude, at least not correct one. But, there are one more problem: all charts and maps using MSL system to point terrain obstacles (mountain peaks, some obstacles...), and QFE altimeter setting cannot provide you correct MSL altitude. So now you are in danger to hit some mountain or similar. To prevent that, QNE is in use only for high altitude cruising (lowest altitude when you have to switch from QNH to QNE vary from 5000ft in some Europe countries to 18k ft in US), and for low altitude flying (approach and departures) you should use QNH. Why? because QNH shows you correct MSL altitude and you can avoid any terrain obstacles having only your map in hands... To prevent mid air collisions, all airplanes in same area have to use correct QNH dictated by ATC. Area between QNH flying zone and QNE flying zone is the most dangerous one, because that is point where all pilots switching their altimeters to QNH if they are going down, or QNE if they are going UP. That is 1000ft to 3000ft thick "transition layer" and cruise in that zone is forbidden, you can just pass through it. In Hog, we cannot use all rules because of dumb ATC, but as I understood, every military flight is IFR before enter in combat zone, so in MP we can use FLIGHT LEVEL phrase to point out that we are at QNE, or just to read altitude if we are using QNH.

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