Building a 5SG Toyota engine

The 5SG is a non-standard hybrid engine, made by combining the twin cam 3SG or 3SGTE head and 5S crank (and sometimes block). Depending on the bore size, the resultant engine capacity is between 2138 & 2190cc. Stroking can further increase this. The stock factory engines have different dimensions as shown in the table.
Bore Stroke Swept Capacity Piston crown volume Piston compression height(centre of gudgeon pin to top of crown) Big end (crankpin)diameter 3SG or 3SGTE 86mm 86mm 1998cc 6cc dome to 8cc dish depending on model 34.8mm 48mm 5SF 87mm 91mm 2138cc 12cc dish 32.4mm 52mm

The 5S engine was available in 2 different generations. The first 5SF engine used a block that is outwardly similar to the 3SF or 3SG, however it did not use an oil cooler under the filter, nor piston oil squirters. The 2nd generation of them used a totally different block, bulged out near the bottom and with a counterbalance arrangement built into the sump. These later engines have a special crank to drive the counterbalance shaft that is in the sump. Avoid these. Some of the very last include a crank angle sensor in the oil pump casting. Because of the dimensional differences, there are right and wrong ways to build the hybrid 5SG engine. The apparently simplest solution is to just drop on a 3SG or GTE head, but that is far from ideal for either a turbo engine or a non-turbo one, due to the resultant compression ratio.

Head
The table below shows the result of a stock 5S bottom end (assuming normal 12cc dished piston) and various 3SG/GTE heads. I have assumed typical values of 0.25mm for piston to block deck clearance and a 1.25mm compressed gasket thickness. Because there is a large variation in head combustion chamber volumes, this needs to be accurately measured before launching into a build. Most Gen2 & Gen3, 3SGTE heads, have a chamber of around 49-50cc when new. Some Gen 1 heads are closer to 54cc, but it is unlikely anyone will use that style head nowadays, so I have ignored it. Minor shaving as part of an engine rebuild, will drop the volume by around 1-1.5cc. Heads that have been bucked from overheating, then straightened and re-faced, might be down to 42-43cc, and this can cause problems if the builder is not aware of the problem.
5S compression ratio

Compression ratio (value :1)

9.5 9.0 8.5 8.0 42

9.4 9.1 8.9 8.7 8.5

44

46
head chamber volume (cc)

48

50

For a turbo 5S, aim for a final CR of no-more than 8.5:1, and for a nonturbo, aim for 9.5:1 or greater. Both values assume you will be using a premium fuel of around 98RON, and have a fully programmable engine management system. Really high performance NA versions can approach 12.5:1. Page1

Copyright, Terry OBeirne Road and Track, May 2009

Head gasket
The chosen head gasket should match the head as the cooling holes changed with models, ie Gen 1/Gen 2 (the same), or Gen 3 (extra holes, very important). Most Toyota composite gaskets are around 1.25mm thick, while the aftermarket metal ones can be anything from 1-3.5mm thick. Not all brands of metal head gaskets (made for the 3SGTE) will handle a bore of 87.5mm, so check that before ordering one. The 5S gasket is different and should not be used with any 3SG or GTE head.

Crank & flywheel

The 1st generation 5S crank is a direct fitment into any 3SG or 3SGTE block as the main bearing sizes are the same. Some of them have 6 x 6mm flywheel bolts while some have 8 x 6mm bolts. The 8 bolt pattern is NOT the same as the (common) Gen2 or Gen3, 3SGTE, so you have to use the smaller Gen1 3SG flywheel, or the correct 5S one. If you have a 6 bolt one, then any 3SF flywheel will fit it. Toyota make stepped flywheel bolts where you end up with a flywheel hole larger than the thread. Note however, swapping flywheels may cause problems with the starter location. The Gen1 flywheels have a smaller diameter ring gear, so the starter location changes. Check engine back plate and gearbox bellhousing carefully. The front crank gear off the 5S, is no good with a 3SG head, as the belt tooth shape wont match, so you must use a 3SG one

Block
If you follow the approach of fitting the 5S crank into a 3S block, then ideally, choose a block with oil squirters (ie any turbo block or Gen 3 NA block). If you decide to use the 5S block, then the 3S head will directly bolt on. Just remember the stock bore size is 87mm and will generally only accept reboring to 87.50mm. If you want a rear drive layout, then make sure your desired block has the lugs on the side for the mounts. Most early 5S blocks will not accept the deeper 3SGTE oil pump, as the casting is too thick in that area and the bulge on the back of the pump hits the block. Some late 5S blocks wont accept rear drive mounts.

Conrods & pistons

Because the various piston options, I suggest pistons and rods are considered together.

Using 5S sized rods

The Factory 5S conrods all use small 8mm bolts, rather than stronger 10mm ones in the 3SG.

If you look carefully at these pictures, you can see other shape and dimensional differences between the rods. Generally, I do not suggest using stock 5S rods on engines that are likely to be very highly stressed. Stock 5SF pistons generally cannot be used as they have too low compression for a non-turbo engine, and they are not strong enough for a heavily boosted engine as they can split in the oil ring drain slot. They appear to survive OK with a few PSI of boost, but are far from ideal. Copyright, Terry OBeirne Road and Track, May 2009 Page2

The adjacent chart shows what happens when various pistons are used. I have assumed the head chamber is 48cc, the gasket 1.25mm thick when compressed and the piston top is 0.5mm down from the deck of the block (all common values).

5S Toyota compression ratio

Compression ratio (value :1) 14.0 13.0 12.0 11.0 10.0 9.0 8.0 12

8.7 10

8.9 8

9.1 6

9.4

9.7

10.6 10.9 10.0 10.3

11.3

11.7

12.2

12.7

-2

-4

-6

-8

-10

-12

Piston crow n (negative is dom ed)

The stock length rods require pistons with a 2.5mm lower compression height (than 3SG) so they dont stick out the top of the block when they travel to the top of the stroke. If you are restricted to off-the-shelf pistons, even forged ones, then 2JZGTE ones are the closest ones suitable for a turbo engine as they typically have a 15cc top dish. The boss around the gudgeon pin usually has to be thinned fractionally, and the webs on the crank reduced in diameter by about 3mm so they dont hit the underside of the piston at the bottom of the stroke. The adjacent pictures show this. If you can obtain proper forged slipper race pistons, then generally they have more room under the gudgeon and such machining is either not needed or reduced. At least 1 race piston maker has a suitable piston. The pictures show a piston being modified, and if you look carefully, you will see how close the underside of the gudgeon pin boss is to the web of the crank. This crank has been extensively machined on the webs to give more clearance, and to lighten it. In most cases, a slot for the oil squirter has to be hand ground into the piston skirt

Copyright, Terry OBeirne Road and Track, May 2009

Page3

Using 3S sized rods

The 3S conrods will not fit any 5S crank unless the crankpin journal is ground down specially. If you get the crank pin ground down to 3SG diameter, then you can use stock (or aftermarket) 3S conrods, but you will need to change pistons to get the optimum compression ratio. Pistons from the Mitsubishi 4G 63 warrant investigation as they have a 13cc dish, which will suit many turbo 5S engines, provided the correct gasket thickness is chosen. The downside with this is that the crank needs some serious attention. The stock crank has stress relieving fillets rolled into the corners of the crank pin during manufacture, and the extensive resizing will remove them. The crank grinder however, will always re-grind a generous radius into the corner to reduce the risk. Another solution is to stress relieve the crank, pre-grind it, nitride it and then final grind it.

Using lengthened rods

Longer rods have the advantage of pushing the piston pin further up and therefore the crank web to piston clearance issue mentioned above, goes away. Any long rod however will require special pistons. Basically, if you want 3mm longer rods, then you need pistons with 3mm lower pin to crown height. The only off-the-shelf piston that comes close to being useable is that from the SR20DET, as it has a pin height of 31.8mm and standard bore size of 86.5mm. There is negligible choice of off-the-shelf long rods for any 3S/5S, as the big-end width is unusually wide. This generally means custom rods are needed, and when this is done, they are made to suit the desired pistons. Custom rods also give you the opportunity to build an even longer stoke engine and reduce the con-rod bearing diameter fractionally to lower frictional losses. If you go this route, you can further increase the stroke by offset grinding the crank pin (refer comments above about cracking). If you use custom conrods, and a stock 3S block, then you may have issues with them hitting the bottom of the cylinder bore. This will very much depend on

5S with support saddles on main caps

your individual circumstances

Copyright, Terry OBeirne Road and Track, May 2009

Page4

Other issues
.When building these engines, I normally take the opportunity to remove the horrible oil heater found on most 3SGTEs, and convert it to a more conventional external air-to oil cooler. There are 3 different 5S oil pumps and in all cases, you must fit a 3SG drive gear. The very last 5S pump has the thickest gears at 15.5mm. The 5S engine is definitely not as smooth as a 3S (which is not very nice anyway) and some owners report strange vibrations from the engine. Because of this, I always use the factory 3SG harmonic balancer and never a racing lightweight pulley (which cant possibly work as it has no damping capabilities). For any serious 5S engine, I would always use main cap stiffeners as per the pictures, to reduce the whip the crank gets, and prolong the life of the centre main bearing. The correct sequence to sort out the compression ratio is this:1. Get the head faced and measure the combustion chamber volume with a sparkplug installed, accurate to at least 1cc. 2. Select the most likely piston/rod combination and confirm piston crown dish volume or protrusion, again accurate to 1cc. 3. Calculate compression ratio assuming 1.25mm thick gasket and zero deck clearance for pistons. 4. Rework the calculation by adjusting the gasket thickness to get the desired compression ratio (make sure you can actually buy the desired thickness gasket) 5. Dummy assemble the short motor, and confirm how much has to be machined off the deck of the block for zero piston deck clearance. 6. Final machining and assembly

Copyright, Terry OBeirne Road and Track, May 2009

Page5