A 1962 Sylvia Plath Interview with Peter Orr

ORR: Sylvia, what started you writing poetry? PLATH: I don't now what started !e, I "ust wrote it #ro! the ti!e was $uite s!all% I guess I li ed nursery rhy!es and I guess I thought I &ould do the sa!e thing% I wrote !y #irst poe!, !y #irst pu'lished poe!, when I was eight(and(a(hal# years old% It &a!e out in The )oston Traveller and #ro! then on, I suppose, I've 'een a 'it o# a pro#essional% ORR: *hat sort o# thing did you write a'out when you 'egan? PLATH: +ature, I thin : 'irds, 'ees, spring, #all, all those su'"e&ts whi&h are a'solute gi#ts to the person who doesn't have any interior e,perien&e to write a'out% I thin the &o!ing o# spring, the stars overhead, the #irst snow#all and so on are gi#ts #or a &hild, a young poet% ORR: +ow, "u!ping the years, &an you say, are there any the!es whi&h parti&ularly attra&t you as a poet, things that you #eel you would li e to write a'out? PLATH: Perhaps this is an A!eri&an thing: I've 'een very e,&ited 'y what I #eel is the new 'rea through that &a!e with, say, Ro'ert Lowell's Li#e Studies, this intense 'rea through into very serious, very personal, e!otional e,perien&e whi&h I #eel has 'een partly ta'oo% Ro'ert Lowell's poe!s a'out his e,perien&e in a !ental hospital, #or e,a!ple, interested !e very !u&h% These pe&uliar, private and ta'oo su'"e&ts, I #eel, have 'een e,plored in re&ent A!eri&an poetry% I thin parti&ularly the poetess Ann Se,ton, who writes a'out her e,perien&es as a !other, as a !other who has had a nervous 'rea down, is an e,tre!ely e!otional and #eeling young wo!an and her poe!s are wonder#ully &ra#ts!an-i e poe!s and yet they have a ind o# e!otional and psy&hologi&al depth whi&h I thin is so!ething perhaps $uite new, $uite e,&iting% ORR: +ow you, as a poet, and as a person who straddles the Atlanti&, i# I &an put it that way, 'eing an A!eri&an yoursel#%%% PLATH: That's a rather aw ward position, 'ut I'll a&&ept it. ORR: %%% on whi&h side does your weight #all, i# I &an pursue the !etaphor? PLATH: *ell, I thin that as #ar as language goes I'! an A!eri&an, I'! a#raid, !y a&&ent is A!eri&an, !y way o# tal is an A!eri&an way o# tal , I'! an old(#ashioned A!eri&an% That's pro'a'ly one o# the reasons why I'! in /ngland now and why I'll always stay in /ngland% I'! a'out #i#ty years 'ehind as #ar as !y pre#eren&es go and I !ust say that the poets who e,&ite !e !ost are the A!eri&ans% There are very #ew &onte!porary /nglish poets that I ad!ire% ORR: 0oes this !ean that you thin &onte!porary /nglish poetry is 'ehind the ti!es &o!pared with A!eri&an? PLATH: +o, I thin it is in a 'it o# a strait("a& et, i# I !ay say so% There was an essay 'y Alvare1, the )ritish &riti&: his argu!ents a'out the dangers o# gentility in /ngland are very

pertinent, very true% I !ust say that I a! not very genteel and I #eel that gentility has a stranglehold: the neatness, the wonder#ul tidiness, whi&h is so evident everywhere in /ngland is perhaps !ore dangerous than it would appear on the sur#a&e% ORR: )ut don't you thin , too, that there is this 'usiness o# /nglish poets who are la'ouring under the whole weight o# so!ething whi&h in 'lo& &apitals is &alled '/nglish Literature'? PLATH: 2es, I &ouldn't agree !ore% I now when I was at 3a!'ridge this appeared to !e% 2oung wo!en would &o!e up to !e and say 'How do you dare to write, how do you dare to pu'lish a poe!, 'e&ause o# the &riti&is!, the terri'le &riti&is!, that #alls upon one i# one does pu'lish?' And the &riti&is! is not o# the poe! as poe!% I re!e!'er 'eing appalled when so!eone &riti&ised !e #or 'eginning "ust li e 4ohn 0onne, 'ut not $uite !anaging to #inish li e 4ohn 0onne, and I #irst #elt the #ull weight o# /nglish Literature on !e at that point% I thin the whole e!phasis in /ngland, in universities, on pra&ti&al &riti&is! 5'ut not that so !u&h as on histori&al &riti&is!, nowing what period a line &o!es #ro!6 this is al!ost paralysing% In A!eri&a, in 7niversity, we read ( what? ( T% S% /liot, 0ylan Tho!as, 2eats, that is where we 'egan% Sha espeare #launted in the 'a& ground% I'! not sure I agree with this, 'ut I thin that' #or the young poet, the writing poet, it is not $uite so #rightening to go to university in A!eri&a as it is in /ngland, #or these reasons% ORR: 2ou say, Sylvia, that you &onsider yoursel# an A!eri&an, 'ut when we listen to a poe! li e '0addy', whi&h tal s a'out 0a&hau and Aus&hwit1 and 8ein 9a!p#, I have the i!pression that this is the sort o# poe! that a real A!eri&an &ould not have written, 'e&ause it doesn't !ean so !u&h, these na!es do not !ean so !u&h, on the other side o# the Atlanti&, do they? PLATH: *ell now, you are tal ing to !e as a general A!eri&an% In parti&ular, !y 'a& ground is, !ay I say, :er!an and Austrian% On one side I a! a #irst generation A!eri&an, on one side I'! se&ond generation A!eri&an, and so !y &on&ern with &on&entration &a!ps and so on is uni$uely intense% And then, again, I'! rather a politi&al person as well, so I suppose that's what part o# it &o!es #ro!% ORR: And as a poet, do you have a great and een sense o# the histori&? PLATH:I a! not a historian, 'ut I #ind !ysel# 'eing !ore and !ore #as&inated 'y history and now I #ind !ysel# reading !ore and !ore a'out history% I a! very interested in +apoleon, at the present: I'! very interested in 'attles, in wars, in :allipoli, the ;irst *orld *ar and so on, and I thin that as I age I a! 'e&o!ing !ore and !ore histori&al% I &ertainly wasn't at all in !y early twenties% ORR: 0o your poe!s tend now to &o!e out o# 'oo s rather than out o# your own li#e? PLATH: +o, no : I would not say that at all% I thin !y poe!s i!!ediately &o!e out o# the sensuous and e!otional e,perien&es I have, 'ut I !ust say I &annot sy!pathise with these &ries #ro! the heart that are in#or!ed 'y nothing e,&ept a needle or a ni#e, or whatever it is% I 'elieve that one should 'e a'le to &ontrol and !anipulate e,perien&es, even the !ost terri#i&, li e !adness, 'eing tortured, this sort o# e,perien&e, and one should 'e a'le to !anipulate these

e,perien&es with an in#or!ed and an intelligent !ini I thin that personal e,perien&e is very i!portant, 'ut &ertainly it shouldn't 'e a ind o# shut('o, and !irror loo ing, nar&issisti& e,perien&e% I 'elieve it should 'e relevant, and relevant to the larger things, the 'igger things su&h as Hiroshi!a and 0a&hau and so on% ORR: And so, 'ehind the pri!itive, e!otional rea&tion there !ust 'e an intelle&tual dis&ipline% PLATH: I #eel that very strongly: having 'een an a&ade!i&, having 'een te!pted 'y the invitation to stay on to 'e&o!e a Ph%0%, a pro#essor, and all that, one side o# !e &ertainly does respe&t all dis&iplines, as long as they don't ossi#y% ORR: *hat a'out writers who have in#luen&ed you, who have !eant a lot to you? PLATH: There were very #ew% I #ind it hard to tra&e the! really% *hen I was at 3ollege I was stunned and astounded 'y the !oderns, 'y 0ylan Tho!as, 'y 2eats, 'y Auden even: at one point I was a'solutely wild #or Auden and everything I wrote was desperately Audenes$ue% +ow I again 'egin to go 'a& wards, I 'egin to loo to )la e, #or e,a!ple% And then, o# &ourse, it is presu!ptuous to say that one is in#luen&ed 'y so!eone li e Sha espeare: one reads Sha espeare, and that is that% ORR: Sylvia, one noti&es in reading your poe!s and listening to your poe!s that there are two $ualities whi&h e!erge very $ui& ly and &learly< one is their lu&idity 5and I thin these two $ualities have so!ething to do one with the other6, their lu&idity and the i!pa&t they !a e on reading% +ow, do you &ons&iously design your poe!s to 'e 'oth lu&id and to 'e e##e&tive when they are read aloud? PLATH: This is so!ething I didn't do in !y earlier poe!s% ;or e,a!ple, !y #irst 'oo , The 3olossus, I &an't read any o# the poe!s aloud now% I didn't write the! to 'e read aloud% They, in #a&t, $uite privately, 'ore !e% These ones that I have "ust read, the ones that are very re&ent, I've got to say the!, I spea the! to !ysel#, and I thin that this in !y own writing develop!ent is $uite a new thing with !e, and whatever lu&idity they !ay have &o!es #ro! the #a&t that I say the! to !ysel#, I say the! aloud% ORR: 0o you thin this is an essential ingredient o# a good poe!, that it should 'e a'le to 'e read aloud e##e&tively? PLATH: *ell, I do #eel that now and I #eel that this develop!ent o# re&ording poe!s, o# spea ing poe!s at readings, o# having re&ords o# poets, I thin this is a wonder#ul thing% I'! very e,&ited 'y it% In a sense, there's a return, isn't there, to the old role o# the poet, whi&h was to spea to a group o# people, to &o!e a&ross% ORR: Or to sing to a group? PLATH: To sing to a group o# people, e,a&tly%

ORR: Setting aside poetry #or a !o!ent, are there other things you would li e to write, or that you have written? PLATH: *ell, I always was interested in prose% As a teenager, I pu'lished short stories% And I always wanted to write the long short story, I wanted to write a novel% +ow that I have attained, shall I say, a respe&ta'le age, and have had e,perien&es, I #eel !u&h !ore interested in prose, in the novel% I #eel that in a novel, #or e,a!ple, you &an get in tooth'rushes and all the paraphernalia that one #inds in dally li#e, and I #ind this !ore di##i&ult in poetry% Poetry, I #eel, is a tyranni&al dis&ipline, you've got to go so #ar, so #ast, in su&h a s!all spa&e that you've "ust got to turn away all the peripherals% And I !iss the!. I'! a wo!an, I li e !y little Lares and Penates, I li e trivia, and I #ind that in a novel I &an get !ore o# li#e, perhaps not su&h intense li#e, 'ut &ertainly !ore o# li#e, and so I've 'e&o!e very interested in novel writing as a result% ORR: This is al!ost a 0r% 4ohnson sort o# view, isn't it? *hat was it he said, 'There are so!e things that are #it #or in&lusion in poetry and others whi&h are not'? PLATH: *ell, o# &ourse, as a poet I would say pou#. I would say everything should 'e a'le to &o!e into a poe!, 'ut I &an't put tooth'rushes into a poe!, I really &an't. ORR: 0o you #ind yoursel# !u&h in the &o!pany o# other writers, o# poets? PLATH: I !u&h pre#er do&tors, !idwives, lawyers, anything 'ut writers% I thin writers and artists are the !ost nar&issisti& people% I !ustn't say this, I li e !any o# the!, in #a&t a great !any o# !y #riends happen to 'e writers and artists% )ut I !ust say what I ad!ire !ost is the person who !asters an area o# pra&ti&al e,perien&e, and &an tea&h !e so!ething% I !ean, !y lo&al !idwi#e has taught !e how to eep 'ees% *ell, she &an't understand anything I write% And I #ind !ysel# li ing her, !ay I say, !ore than !ost poets% And a!ong !y #riends I #ind people who now all a'out 'oats or now all a'out &ertain sports, or how to &ut so!e'ody open and re!ove an organ% I'! #as&inated 'y this !astery o# the pra&ti&al% As a poet, one lives a 'it on air% I always li e so!eone who &an tea&h !e so!ething pra&ti&al% ORR: Is there anything else you would rather have done than writing poetry? )e&ause this is so!ething, o'viously, whi&h ta es up a great deal o# one's private li#e, i# one's going to su&&eed at it% 0o you ever have any lingering regrets that you didn't do so!ething else? PLATH: I thin i# I had done anything else I would li e to have 'een a do&tor% This is the sort o# polar opposition to 'eing a writer, I suppose% 8y 'est #riends when I was young were always do&tors% I used to dress up in a white gau1e hel!et and go round and see 'a'ies 'orn and &adavers &ut open% This #as&inated !e, 'ut I &ould never 'ring !ysel# to dis&iplining !ysel# to the point where I &ould learn all the details that one has to learn to 'e a good do&tor% This is the sort o# opposition: so!e'ody who deals dire&tly with hu!an e,perien&es, is a'le to &ure, to !end, to help, this sort o# thing% I suppose i# I have any nostalgias it's this, 'ut I &onsole !ysel# 'e&ause I now so !any do&tors% And I !ay say, perhaps, I'! happier writing a'out do&tors than I would have 'een 'eing one%

ORR: )ut 'asi&ally this thing, the writing o# poetry, is so!ething whi&h has 'een a great satis#a&tion to you in your li#e, is it? PLATH: Oh, satis#a&tion. I don't thin I &ould live without it% It's li e water or 'read, or so!ething a'solutely essential to !e% I #ind !ysel# a'solutely #ul#illed when I have written a poe!, when I'! writing one% Having written one, then you #all away very rapidly #ro! having 'een a poet to 'e&o!ing a sort o# poet in rest, whi&h isn't the sa!e thing at all% )ut I thin the a&tual e,perien&e o# writing a poe! is a !agni#i&ent one% #ro! The Poet Spea s: Interviews with 3onte!porary Poets 3ondu&ted 'y Hilary 8orrish, Peter Orr, 4ohn Press, and Ian S&ott(9ilvery% London: Routledge 5=>??6% Online Sour&e http:@@www%english%illinois%edu@!aps@poets@!Ar@plath@orrinterview%ht!