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BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter
25 Nov 2007, 10:52 bajaman

Hello my f riends I am part icularly proud and pleased wit h t his new project - I have just complet ed t he working prot ot ype - pict ures t o f ollow I st art ed t his project by t rying t o reverse engineer t he Demet er Compulat or f rom pict ures post ed here by some of you f olks, but I could not see t he solder side of t he board and despit e numerous request s, nobody post ed it So, I quiet ly shelved t his project and did some work on ot her project s, but yest erday a f riend kindly provided me his unit t o open up, and t he rest as t hey say is hist ory. I got my t rust y digit al camera out and got some lovely pict ures f rom all angles - I will post t hese soon, so do not panic. T hen I t raced t he schemat ic and was a lit t le disappoint ed, because it did not seem t o f unct ion like t he LA2A limit er t hat I believed it was modelled af t er Hmmmmmm, I t hought - i can do bet t er t han t his, i t hought t o myself , so I set t o work and t his is what I came up wit h. Alt hough it shares some similar f eat ures and part s wit h t he Demet er Compulat or it f unct ions complet ely dif f erent ly - in f act it f unct ions just like t he T elet ronix LA2A Limit er T HIS IS NOT A COMPRESSOR like t he Demet er it is a LIMIT ER T he Demet er Compulat or derives it 's cont rol signal f rom t he OUT PUT of t he unit . My Opt ical Limit er derives it 's cont rol signal f rom t he INPUT of t he unit and t herein lies t he major operat ing dif f erence. I have played some guit ar t hrough t he Demet er Compul;at orand alt hough it is a very nicely made unit I was less t han impressed by - no indicat or t o show how much compression and a t endency t o release errat ically on high compression set t ings - a bit like an underdamped swing door Nevert heless, Pet e T ownshend and Dave Gilmour bot h use one in t heir Pet e Cornish rigs, so it cannot be t hat bad t hen can it Anyway - I have a board layout and part s placement overlay all done f or t he compulat or - I will t idy up t he schemat ic and post it in t he next f ew days, but I t hink you will like my Limit er bet t er. Anyway I will post t hem bot h as project s and let you f olks decide which one t o build, or you can build t hem bot h if you are keen Enough t lk - here is t he f irst inst alment in t his project - t he Baja Opt ical Limit er schemat ic - board layout and PCB will f ollow very soon , but as it is my Birt hday t omorrow, I may be a wee bit incapacit at ed enjoy bajaman BAJA Opt ical LA2A St yle LIMIT ER
25 Nov 2007, 16:13 Aharon

Happy birt hday Baja!!!! Hey,your generosit y is limit less...anot her great project ,always original ,always usef ul................ I don't even look at t he Boot ique boxes disect ed sect ion!! YOU RULE!!. T hanks Aharon

25 Nov 2007, 19:16 Stephengiles

Happy birt hday indeed. I was discussing wit h my wif e only t his morning t he downside of a heavy drinking session - t hat is t o say, how your head f eels t he next morning!! Anyway as it is already t omorrow f or you in NZ (I'm in England) I t rust your head is not f eeling t oo bad. T he worst ever f or me was New Years Day around 1980, af t er a night of much whiskey, cards and rich f ood, I was f aced wit h a drive home of some 40 miles whilst hoplessly over t he drink/drive limit . I have some t hought s on your wonderf ul circuit which I'll commit t o words anon........but now t o t he It alian Rest aurant !
25 Nov 2007, 20:48 goaltoday

Happy Birt hday!![smilie=a_part yguy.gif ] What Light /Dark Resist ance would you recommend f or t he ldr? T hanks.
25 Nov 2007, 20:58 DWBH

What 's does a limit er do?

25 Nov 2007, 21:40 bajaman

What Light /Dark Resist ance would you recommend f or t he ldr? I used one of t he small ones available f rom t he local elect ronics st ore - I t hink it is a Philips, but not sure. I will t ry and get some specs f or it f or you - f eel f ree t o experiment OR you could just use a Vact ec VT L5C9 or VT L5C10 device - should work okay. What 's does a limit er do? f rom wikipedia Limit ing: Any process by which a specif ied charact erist ic (usually amplit ude) of t he out put of a device is prevent ed f rom exceeding a predet ermined value. Limit ing can ref er t o non-linear clipping, in which a signal is passed t hrough normally but "sheared of f " when it would normally exceed a cert ain t hreshold. It can also ref er t o a t ype of variable-gain audio level compression, in which t he gain of an amplif ier is changed very quickly t o prevent t he signal f rom going over a cert ain amplit ude. Hard limit ing (not t o conf use wit h "clipping") is a limit ing act ion in which t here is (a) over t he permit t ed dynamic range, negligible variat ion in t he expect ed charact erist ic of t he out put signal, and (b) a st eady-st at e signal, at t he maximum permit t ed level, f or t he durat ion of each period when t he out put would ot herwise be required t o exceed t he permit t ed dynamic range in order t o correspond t o t he t ransf er f unct ion of t he device. Sof t limit ing is limit ing in which t he t ransf er f unct ion of a device is a f unct ion of it s inst ant aneous or int egrat ed out put level. T he out put wavef orm is t heref ore dist ort ed, but not clipped

cheers bajaman
25 Nov 2007, 22:09 goaltoday

T hanks bajaman.
26 Nov 2007, 20:47 bajaman

Here is t he complet e project hope you enjoy it as much as I do bajaman PCB LAYOUT SCHEMAT IC
27 Nov 2007, 01:05 bajaman

I just modif ied a cust omers BOSS DD2 (DD3) t o give t he T ES sound (t ape echo simulat or) - t he echo is less high t reble and t he repeat s are progressively less bass, and a couple of small mods t o increase t he number of repeat s available et c. I will post det ails soon f or t hose who wish t o improve t heir BOSS pedal sound. ANYWAY - I connect ed my BAJA Opt ical Limit er AFT ER t he BOSS modded DD2 and was very pleasnt ly surprised at how it f at t ened and warmed t he st erile digit al sound - now it sounds much more like a t ape echo. SO - build t his project - you will not regret it , I promise you bajaman
27 Nov 2007, 11:19 bajaman

Here is a label - it f it s a st andard Hammond 1590B case. T he cont rols and t he led pilot light indicat or will f it t o t he pcb perf ect ly. I used Alpha 16mm spline shaf t pot s wit h 30 amp f use wire t o ext end t he legs. T he pot s are mount ed on t he solder side of t he circuit board and a 3mm self adhesive bumper is at t ached t o t he rear of t he pot case t o prevent it short ing against t he solder side of t he board. Once t he pot s are at t ached t o t he case t hey hold t he circuit board and pilot indicat or light f irmly in place t oo. cheers bajaman Baja Opt ical limit er label
27 Nov 2007, 18:13 MoreCowbell

Cool project Baja...I'm gonna t ake a "building break" f or a bit , but I might f ind t ime t o make t his one in t he next couple mont hs. Anyway, Happy Birt hday...and Happy Holidays !
27 Nov 2007, 20:31 Skreddy

Wow; looks great ! Nice project . Bajaman!

27 Nov 2007, 21:17 bajaman

I might f ind t ime t o make t his one in t he next couple mont hs Don't wait t hat long Andrew T his sounds really really nice af t er any f uzz or

dist ort ion pedal - f at t ens t he sound, warms it up, and generally makes it sound more t ube amp like. cheers bajaman
27 Nov 2007, 21:21 bajaman

Designing (wit h some help f rom t he Demet er Compulat or - do a search on t his sit e) t his ef f ect has complet ely changed my out look on compressors / limit ers. i used t o t hink t hey sucked t one big t ime - Boss CS2 f or example, but af t er building t his project I am a t rue believer in t heir real wort h (opt ical based devices - NOT VCA) bajaman
27 Nov 2007, 22:16 analogguru

i used t o t hink t hey sucked t one big t ime - Boss CS2 f or example, but af t er building t his project I am a true believer in t heir real wort h (opt ical based devices - NOT VCA) bajaman

bajaman.... I can underst and your ent husiasm, but you are t echnician enough t o explain me what an opt o based compressor should be able t o do, what a VCA-based cant ....? T he CS-2 is "dynacomp based" t he same concept most of t he compressors (including keeley) use.... but only in t he "guit ar world". Sorry, but t he "guit ar world" is not ident ical wit h t he whole compressor world. And even in t he "guit ar world" are except ions: f or example t he DOD 280 or t he Boss CS-1 are opt o-based... so opt o is not hing new - but guit arist only ask f or Dynacomp-clones. T his doesnt mean t hat t he Demet er concept is t he last wisdom of t he world... it sounds maybe bet t er t han t he well-known dynacomp-world... but IMHO it s a cheap and poor concept which doesnt produce any result what cannot be achieved also wit h VCAs. If you dont believe it , have a look t o f ind such a unit f or comparision:

It s VCA based (CEM 3381) and should deliver at least t he same result s. analogguru
28 Nov 2007, 01:11 bajaman

but IMHO it s a cheap and poor concept which doesnt produce any result what cannot be achieved also wit h VCAs. T ell t hat t o Dave Gilmour and Pet e T ownshend T hey pulled t heir VCA based compressors f rom t heir boards and are CURRENT LY using t he Demet er Compulat or in t heir t ouring Pet e Cornish built pedal boards. Seriously t hough, I was t rying t o build a 9v pedal t o mimic t he sound and response charact erist ics of t he f amous T elet ronix LA2A broadcast limit er, and it uses opt ocouplers and senses t he input signal BEFORE t he volt age gain recovery amplif ier - in t his respect it operat es f ar dif f erent ly t han any VCA f eedback AGC based design t hat I am aware of on t oday's market . Compare a 1khz square wave f ed int o a VCA based device such as t he BOSS CS2 and you will be horrif ied at what comes out of t he out put socket . Now build my pedal - it should not t ake you very long - and compare t he response, and you will see why I am so ent husiast ic about t his project . bajaman
28 Nov 2007, 01:24 modman

analogguru wrote: i used t o t hink t hey sucked t one big t ime - Boss CS2 f or example, but af t er building t his project I am a true believer in t heir real wort h (opt ical based devices NOT VCA) bajaman

bajaman.... I can underst and your ent husiasm, but you are t echnician enough t o explain me what an opt o based compressor should be able t o do, what a VCA-based cant ....? T he CS-2 is "dynacomp based" t he same concept most of t he compressors (including keeley) use.... but only in t he "guit ar world". Sorry, but t he "guit ar world" is not ident ical wit h t he whole compressor world. And even in t he "guit ar world" are except ions: f or example t he DOD 280 or t he Boss CS-1 are opt o-based... so opt o is not hing new - but guit arist only ask f or Dynacomp-clones. T his doesnt mean t hat t he Demet er concept is t he last wisdom of t he world... it sounds maybe bet t er t han t he well-known dynacomp-world... but IMHO it s a cheap and poor concept which doesnt produce any result what cannot be achieved also wit h VCAs. If you dont believe it , have a look t o f ind such a unit f or comparision:

It s VCA based (CEM 3381) and should deliver at least t he same result s. analogguru

If it would be revolut ionary he wouldn't be post ing it , I know him, he's an int elligent guy. I'm sure he's got much more convolut ed st uf f up his sleeve. If you can provide schemat ic and layoout we could put it in a dif f erent f older and t hen t he challenge is on. We can never have enough 'f resh' answers on old quest ions... Where's t hat T ubezipper schemat ic? PT has escape all t racing here...
28 Nov 2007, 02:59 bajaman

anyway - mine only has t wo knobs bananaman

28 Nov 2007, 04:27 paulc

Bajaman, t hat looks pret t y cool. I've got somet hing close t o t hat myself , and I've got some t ricks f or it t hat you might want t o t ry if you're int o it . T he main one is I use t wo LDRs inst ead of one. T he LED's are wired back t o back like a diode clipping pair, and t he resist ive element s are paralled in t he same place you have t hem. I add some series resist ance t o one of t he resist ive element s, and a parallel resist or across bot h. T his let s me put z around wit h t he "t aper". You can spend a lot of t ime t here get t ing t hings perf ect t o your ears. I've f ound t hat running t he driver at a higher volt age can help. Once you hit t he rails you wont be able t o get t he LEDs bright er. T his can limit t he range, so by increasing t he headroom you can hit t he LED's harder making t he resist ors drop more. If you can get t hem t o drop low enough (having t he t wo in parallel helps right of f t he bat ) t hen you can make t he ef f ect st ronger wit hout having a large series resist or on t op reducing level at quiescence. Less recovery gain will be needed keeping t he noise down. Also adding a t one cont rol t ype circuit around t he driver can make t he comp react t o dif f erent f reqs. T his can be cool t o keep bass f rom being boomy, or if you crank t he highs you can get it t o act like a deEsser comp'ing t he highs

more t o keep t hings f rom get t ing shrill. But bef ore it get 's said I know t hat 's an old t rick... st ill cool t hough. I love t hese t ype of opt o comps much bet t er t han t he VCA's. T he nice t hing about t he opt os is in your audio pat h t he whole comp element is not hing more t han a resist or. T his allows you t o use your f av buf f ers/gain st ages and what not . It 's sort of like making discreet ops. you can get in t here and go t o t own inst ead of being st uck wit h what 's in t he "package". One of t he t hings I regret most is in a house move I t ossed some old Urei opt os I'd been saving f or a LA2A build. I was bummed when I unpacked and couldn't f ind 'em. Lat er, PaulC HErit age amps/ T im & t immy pedals
28 Nov 2007, 04:52 seniorLoco

I've f ound t hat running t he driver at a higher volt age can help

Pf f f t t t ...done bef ore ! Roland Sust ainer AS-1 .... (gut shot s coming soon)

Get t ing all 'surgical precision' wit h eit her a compressor or limit er f or guit ar use is a bloody wast e of t ime .... imo. more f or st udio use maybe! We t end t o drif t f rom t he f act wit h t hese kinda of ef f ect s, it 's t he "f eel" t hat mat t ers, not much of t he "hear Ye" how it s squishes or sust aines! Opt o rule since t hey sluggish just like we humans ...aye mat e !?
28 Nov 2007, 05:05 paulc

seniorLoco wrote: I've f ound t hat running t he driver at a higher volt age can help

Pf f f t t t ...done bef ore ! Roland Sust ainer AS-1 ....

(gut shot s coming soon)

Get t ing all 'surgical precision' wit h eit her a compressor or limit er f or guit ar use is a bloody wast e of t ime .... imo. more f or st udio use maybe! We t end t o drif t f rom t he f act wit h t hese kinda of ef f ect s, it 's t he "f eel" t hat mat t ers, not much of t he "hear Ye" how it s squishes or sust aines! Opt o rule since t hey sluggish just like we humans ...aye mat e !?

Ummmm O.K... Need t o spend more t ime get t ing t o know t he guys here I guess - I can't t ell if t his was a pro/con/cool/shut up et c responce! Just t rying t o join t he gang ya know? Lat er, PaulC Herit age amps/t im & t immy pedals
28 Nov 2007, 05:12 seniorLoco

Hey Paul not hing like t hat ya .... Sorry if i was rude .....
28 Nov 2007, 06:07 analogguru

bajaman wrote: but IMHO it s a cheap and poor concept which doesnt produce any result what cannot be achieved also wit h VCAs. T ell t hat t o Dave Gilmour and Pet e T ownshend T hey pulled t heir VCA based compressors f rom t heir boards and are CURRENT LY using t he Demet er Compulat or in t heir t ouring Pet e Cornish built pedal boards.

Sorry, but I dont int end t o t each lemmings not t o f ollow his neighbour, and it doesnt mat t er if ones name is David or Pet e. But why I should be so st ubid t o do it f or myself .

Seriously t hough, I was t rying t o build a 9v pedal t o mimic t he sound and response charact erist ics of t he f amous T elet ronix LA2A broadcast limit er,

Seriously... t he Demet er Compulat or and your concept have t he same amount in common wit h a LA2A like a FuzzFace wit h a T ubescreamer - bot h of t he last dist ort and bot h "compress". One of t he "secret recipes" of t he LA-2A is t he use of an elect roluminescent light device wit h a special charact erist ic (and not t he LDR).... wit hout including t hat behaviour you are f ar away f rom an LA-2A. So please let s t alk about a "f eed-f orward opt o-compressor-concept " and not t he LA-2A... t hat would be blasphemy in t he ears of hardcore-st udio-guys. and it uses opt ocouplers and senses t he input signal BEFORE t he volt age gain recovery amplif ier

T his concept is called "f eed-f orward" compressor and also made wit h VCAs: ht t p://rupert neve.com/product s/port ico-5043/ and very well knon since t he mid-70s: ht t p://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cf m?elib=2252 I f or myself designed one wit h 2 OT As in parallel as variable resist ors in t he f eedback loop of an op-amp in 1981. - in t his respect it operat es f ar dif f erent ly t han any VCA f eedback AGC based design t hat I am aware of on t oday's market .

If you are not aware of it , doesnt mean t hat it doesnt exist since more t han 30 years. Compare a 1khz square wave f ed int o a VCA based device such as t he BOSS CS2 and you will be horrif ied at what comes out of t he out put socket .

As I wrot e above: T he sh*t t y "Dynacomp & Clones" concept is not all and everyt hing in t he VCAcompressor-world.... And I dont int end t o discuss about t he behaviour of t he worst example. Noone is using t his sh*t - and paying horror prices f or it except of guit arist s. If t he At t ack and Release t imes are correct ly adjust ed on a (nondynacomp)(f eedback)VCA-based compressor/limit er we can compare it wit hout any problems.

Now build my pedal - it should not t ake you very long - and compare t he response, and you will see why I am so ent husiast ic about t his project . bajaman

Yes, it will sound new and good.... (espacially f or t he guys who only know dynacomp-(clones).... and it s ok t o be ent husiast ic - but please st ay on t he t echnical f loor... As you can read in long discussions about lamps/ldrs f or t he univibe t he response of bot h have an inf luence on t he t one.... Did you ever have a look on t he response curves of an LDR ? t hey have a very long recovery-t ime..... If t hey wouldnt , Demet er and your circuit would be a ringmoduat or inst ead of a compressor due t o t he lack of a smoot hing-cap in t he side-chain. For t his reason you only have t wo knobs inst ead of t hree... : You cant adjust t he recovery (release) t ime.... analogguru --------------------------------Every (boot weak)-pedal has a purpose.... ...it might be a door st op or a hammer, but every (boot weak)-pedal has a purpose.
28 Nov 2007, 06:57 bajaman

T hanks f or your comment s and suggest ions f or improving t his design Paul In pract ice - yes, I have built a f ully operat ional unit , - t his is not a design concept , but a f ully working 9v st ompbox limit er. it most cert ainly is not a Rupert Neve st udio designed compressor, it is a guit arist 's st ompbox on t he f loor. If I was set t ing out t o design a st udio qualit y processor wit h a gazillion knobs, conmpression rat ios, at t ack and release t imes et c., t hen i most cert ainly would not be post ing t he design on t his f orum - OK Sorry - i digressed a lit t le In pract ice - i have f ound t hat by using a st andard 3mm red led, t hat I can get more t han enough limit ing act ion wit h t he 9v bat t ery supply. Noone is using t his sh*t - and paying horror prices f or it - except of guit arist s And t his is exact ly why I designed (wit h some help f rom t he Demet er Compulat or) t his opt ical limit er - so guit arist 's, including myself , could enjoy a f ar bet t er sounding pedal t han all t hose hopeless Dynacomp clones I cert ainly didn't design it f or st udio geeks OK Did you ever have a look on t he response curves of an LDR ? t hey have a very long recovery-t ime..... Yes - just like our ears do t oo, and look ma no pumping.

Yes - just like our ears do t oo, and look ma no pumping. You cant adjust t he recovery (release) t ime.... I do not want t o - i am perf ect ly happy wit h it as it is - just like t he LA2A Opt o rule since t hey sluggish just like we humans ...aye mat e !? Agreed

Also adding a t one cont rol t ype circuit around t he driver can make t he comp react t o dif f erent f reqs I t hought about doing t his but want ed t o keep t he design simple wit h just t wo cont rols - I did t hink about put t ing a similar f ilt er as t he LA2A uses in t he side chain, but in pract ice t he f lat response seems t o do exact ly what i want soundwise. Good t hinking t hough

T he nice t hing about t he opt os is in your audio pat h t he whole comp element is not hing more t han a resist or. T his allows you t o use your f av buf f ers/gain st ages Yes - agree 100% here t oo. T hanks f or all t he f eedback - now go ahead and build it like I did bajaman
28 Nov 2007, 08:57 analogguru

I cert ainly didn't design it f or st udio geeks OK

But t he LA-2A was designed f or and/or used in st udios ? And t his is exact ly why I designed (wit h some help f rom t he Demet er Compulat or) t his opt ical limit er - so guit arist 's, including myself , could enjoy a f ar bet t er sounding pedal t han all t hose hopeless Dynacomp clones

T hat s f ine and good.... and maybe you will f ind your concept in t he near f ut ure in a boot weakers pedal..... but is it really necessary t o make a comparision wit h a LA-2A..... ? BT W, what should be so ingenious on t he "rect if ier"/sidechain part of t he Demet er Compulat or t o borrow it ?

analogguru
28 Nov 2007, 10:24 bajaman

BT W, what should be so ingenious on t he "rect if ier"/sidechain part of t he Demet er Compulat or t o borrow it ? Hey AG - you are t he expert here - you t ell me All I know is it works in t his applicat ion, but I must admit my conf usion regarding t he t wo 1N4148 diodes and t he 4k7 resist or in t he addit ional bias t o t he led driver st age - I t hink t he circuit will work wit hout t hese addit ional component s - i may remove t hem and see - any t hought s f rom you on what t hey act ually do??? If a boot eeker want s t o use t his design, t hat is f ine by me - I have some ot her st uf f up my sleeve f or a rainy day - st ay t uned cheers bajaman
28 Nov 2007, 10:36 jakerandall

t he real quest ion how does it sound?

28 Nov 2007, 16:10 paulc

bajaman wrote: BT W, what should be so ingenious on t he "rect if ier"/sidechain part of t he Demet er Compulat or t o borrow it ? Hey AG - you are t he expert here - you t ell me All I know is it works in t his applicat ion, but I must admit my conf usion regarding t he t wo 1N4148 diodes and t he 4k7 resist or in t he addit ional bias t o t he led driver st age - I t hink t he circuit will work wit hout t hese addit ional component s - i may remove t hem and see - any t hought s f rom you on what t hey act ually do??? If a boot eeker want s t o use t his design, t hat is f ine by me - I have some ot her st uf f up my sleeve f or a rainy day - st ay t uned cheers bajaman

Put t ing a DC of f set in will allow t he LED t o have a lit t le "sof t glow" at quiescence. T his will get t hem st art ed early so you don't have a dead spot in t he curve while you're wait ing f or enough signal t o get t he leds t o st art light ing up. Get s everyt hing in a nice working range at t he st art . Lat er, PaulC "boot weaker"
28 Nov 2007, 16:48 PurplePeopleEater

analogguru wrote:One of t he "secret recipes" of t he LA-2A is t he use of an elect roluminescent light device wit h a special charact erist ic (and not t he LDR).... wit hout including t hat behaviour

you are f ar away f rom an LA-2A.

A very import ant part of t he sound of t he LA2A is t he t ransf ormer. It 's one reason t hat t he older unit s, even if ref urbished complet ely (ot her t han t he xf ormer) sound bet t er t o most people t han t he reissues. T he older unit s, IIRC, had a heavy dut y UT C HA100X x-f ormer t hat used mat erials t hat are current ly not legal t o use (you can t hank t he EPA f or t hat ). T he Fairchild 660/670 are similar in t hat t he clones being made are not t rue clones, because t he mat erials of t he original unit s are no longer legally available. I underst and t hat t he goal of t his project is t o mimic some of t he LA2A's dist inct charact erist ics, but IMHO t hat cannot be done in st ompbox f orm, so t he name is a bit misleading. St ill, it looks like a f un and easy t o build project t hat could be especially usef ul t o t weak and build int o a bass d.i. / preamp.
28 Nov 2007, 21:38 bajaman

Put t ing a DC of f set in will allow t he LED t o have a lit t le "sof t glow" at quiescence T hanks f or t he clarif icat ion here Paul Jakerandall - how does it sound?? Well Jake, it doesn't sound!! It limit s t he signal f ed int o it and is very t ransparent in operat ion - play some single not e lines quiet ly and it sounds t he sam eon or of f , but play a aggressive f ull chord and you will hear what it does. I suppose you could say it evens out t he sound levels and adds a subject ive f at ness t o t he sound - t ry it af t er a chorus, delay, f langer, dist ort ion et c., and you will see why I like it - did you read about t he Clay Jones overdrive pedal??? Just some f ood f or t hought cheers bajaman
29 Nov 2007, 21:53 Skreddy

I just designed a minimal version, omit t ing t he buf f er and out put st age and 1/2 9v opamp, just t o use as an add-on daught er board f or adding limit ing t o any gain st age. I'm planning t o experiment wit h it in a delay project t hat I want t o sound more "t ubey." I've added a parallel and a series resist or (bot h opt ional) f or t ailoring t he LDR t o your part icular applicat ion.
30 Nov 2007, 04:12 celadine

On t he opt oisolat or based VCA vs. t ransist or based VCA t hing: - Cont rol volt age bleedt hrough is not a problem wit h LDRs, simplif iying VCA design. - Opt oisolat ors have a nat ural nonlinear response t o cont rol volt age which also simplif ies VCA designs used f or musical applicat ions. T his is a disadvant age if you want a linear responce. - Some LDRs are f ine in vacuum t ube designs, wit h t he high volt ages involved. T ransist or VCAs can't handle t his high volt age. (yes, I'm looking at you

T ransist or VCAs can't handle t his high volt age. (yes, I'm looking at you lm13600.) - LDR based VCAs can be designed t o have except ional DC perf ormance (CV cont rol, et c.). I'm not an absolut e opt oisolat or f an, just want ed t o point out t hese t hings. T ransist or-based VCAs have t heir uses t oo. (i.e., t he T HAT co. 4320 ht t p://www.t hat corp.com/4320desc.ht ml is pret t y sexy, despit e being QSOP) Here's a PDF wit h more t han you want ed t o know about LDRs: ht t p://opt oelect ronics.perkinelmer.com/ ... olat or.pdf And more LDR st uf f ; check out t he 'T echnical Ref erence' sect ion: ht t p://www1.silonex.com/audiohm/principles.ht ml On t he diode-CV t hing - could be t he diodes are used as volt age-cont rolled resist ors like in t his LPF: ht t p://f iles.muziq.be/schemat ics/paia_2720-3l.gif
05 Dec 2007, 13:03 briggs

How does t he "precision 1/2v supply" af f ect t he overall design? Is it required f or correct operat ion or can it be lef t of f ? I was t hinking of using t hat op amp as t he buf f er sect ion
05 Dec 2007, 16:00 briggs

One more quest ion - can you reduce t he gain in t he recovery st age t o around 3 - 4 wit hout it impact ing on t he limit ing amount ?
05 Dec 2007, 20:48 bajaman

Is it required f or correct operat ion yes can you reduce t he gain in t he recovery st age t o around 3 - 4 wit hout it impact ing on t he limit ing amount yes - but why cheers bajaman - on f ull limit , you will not have a high enough out put level

05 Dec 2007, 21:02 bajaman

I have been doing some ext ensive research int o led and ldr home made opt o couplers. Red, Yellow, Blue, whit e, st andard, hi brit e - dif f erent ldrs et c. T he best combinat ion I have come up wit h so f ar, t hat most easily mimics t he VT L5C10 t ype is a 5mm 16000Cds Hi brit e Whit e Led and a 0.5 megohm dark resist ance small ldr. VT L5C10 wit h 9.4v dc bat t ery series resist or - measured resist ance 1k5 - 70 15k - 186 150k - 900 1M5 - 8k5

Home made opt o coupler 1k5 - 90 15k - 330 150k - 1k8 1M5 - 15k cheers bajaman ps: St eve Daniels at Small Bear has many VT L devices in his st ore - He can get t he VT L5C10 devices t oo - I t hink he may put t hem in his invent ory if enough f olks request t hem
06 Dec 2007, 00:44 goaltoday

T hanks f or t he research baja! Last week I ordered t he VT L5C10 f rom banzai.But I'm going t o t ry some led+phot ocell t o compare and decide what I like.
06 Dec 2007, 09:16 briggs

bajaman wrote: Is it required f or correct operat ion yes

Why is t he buf f ered 1/2 v required? Is t here a specif ic reason? T hanks f or t he project baja, looks like a great ef f ect ! T here's just some t hings t hat I don't quit e underst and t here!
06 Dec 2007, 12:23 bajaman

Why is t he buf f ered 1/2 v required? Is t here a specif ic reason T he buf f ered or regulat ed 1/2 volt supply rail is necessary because of t he way t hat t he led opt o coupler works - you will not ice t hat t he led is connect ed bet ween t he out put of t he op amp (1/2 rail volt s) t o t he 1/2 rail volt age and not t o ground. i am sure AG can explain t his bet t er t han I can t hough. One small problem I have encount ered wit h t his pedal - when I t ried t o use a 9 volt regulat ed swit ch mode power pack, i got a very loud whit e noise. T he remedy was t o add a decoupling capacit or f rom t he anode of t he power input diode t o ground - I used a 470uf 16v t ype elect rolyt ic (posit ive t o t he anode). It is now dead quit e - no problem wit h t he bat t ery operat ion t hough - hmmmm. bajaman
07 Dec 2007, 14:49 briggs

Int erest ing! I'm having a play wit h t he envelope sect ion of t he compulat or myself . It may be usef ul in one of my on-going designs I'm t rying t o get it down t o one op-amp in t he gain sect ion - so I can use t he ot her op-amp f or t he regulat ion of t he 1/2v supply. Skreddy - did you get your minimal version working?
05 Jan 2008, 12:39 swt

i've been playing some f unk lat ely, and realised t hat jamiroquai's and red hot 's guit arrist s use dynacomps, and a lot of f unk guit arrist s as well, so i built one t o get t he sound. But being a f usion/jazz/blues musician didn't like it f or anyt hing but t hat . So i'm giving t his compressor a t ry. T he design looks t errif ic. Just one quest ion...i don't get t hat f et ...i'll use Bf 245A, do you t hink it 's bet t er t o use a 22k or 10k resist or at t he source of t he buf f er?. Or t he 68k is just f ine?. What changes sonic and elect ronic speaking using a 10k or a 68k?. T hanks a lot f or your help and design!.
05 Jan 2008, 14:12 bajaman

i'll use Bf 245A should work okay as a buf f er What changes sonic and elect ronic speaking using a 10k or a 68k?. not a lot - maybe slight ly bet t er t op end response wit h 10k and great er current drain, t hat is all - not crit ical - t ry anyt hing bet ween t hese ext remes should work okay f or you cheers bajaman ps: let us know how it sounds when you f inish building it - pict ures, and comment s always welcome
05 Jan 2008, 15:31 Anonymous

briggs wrote:I'm t rying t o get it down t o one op-amp in t he gain sect ion - so I can use t he ot her op-amp f or t he regulat ion of t he 1/2v supply.

So use a T LE2642 - it s a dedicat ed rail split t er in a T O92 case. It s also on t he T I samples program f or developers.
05 Jan 2008, 15:46 swt

wow t hat was f ast . t hanks a lot f or t he answer. i have it ready t o solder. will report t he buld and also send pict ures if you want . t hanks again.
30 Jan 2008, 22:17 minor7th

bajaman wrote: ps: St eve Daniels at Small Bear has many VT L devices in his st ore - He can get t he VT L5C10 devices t oo - I t hink

he may put t hem in his invent ory if enough f olks request t hem

Following my recent enquiries, St eve is now going t o st ock t hem. He t hinks t hat t hey wil hit his web sit e mid March or so. Ah, t he power of t he consumer! m7t h
31 Jan 2008, 18:57 vanessa

Newark has t hem in st ock all t he t ime: ht t p://www.newark.com/43F885/opt oelect ronics-lamps-displays/product .us0? sku=EG-G-VACT EC-VT L5C1&_request id=39514
10 Feb 2008, 14:18 minor7th

vanessa wrote:Newark has t hem in st ock all t he t ime: ht t p://www.newark.com/43F885/opt oelect ronics-lampsdisplays/product .us0?sku=EG-G-VACT ECVT L5C1&_request id=39514 T hanks, Vanessa. Unf ort unat ely t he minimum shipping cost s t o Aust ralia t hat t he larger f irms charge makes it a rat her expensive Vact rol. T hanks f or t he inf o!
10 Feb 2008, 21:22 bajaman

St eve Daniels at Smallbear elect ronic's post al charges t o Aust ralia and New Zealand are very reasonable - f ast service t oo. bajaman

calling baja...bajaman style opt comp br and qs

21 Apr 2008, 17:55 swt

Hey St eve!. i've just build t he demet er comp clone and it 's amazing. Have t he la2st yle ready but , if i have t he comp pot t o min posit ion, t he f xs works, clean signal, but when i up t hat pot , t he led works but a dist ort ed signal appears riding on t op of t he clean signal, like a misbiased t ransist or or opamp. i t ried f lashing t he ldr wit h a lant ern, and it works f ine, so i t hink it 's t he rect if ier and led driver. is t hat 1k5 supposed t o go t o vr as well as t he comp pot ?, because t hat f orms a net work t o vbias(vr), and might be making t he bias of t he second opamp behave st rangely. i really want t o have t his one working properly. T hanks a lot f or any help. PS: t he input cap is incorrect on t he pcb. i used t he one at t he schem, 10n, t he pcb has a 100n.

Re: calling baja...bajaman style opt comp br and qs

21 Apr 2008, 18:00 analogguru

It s nice t o read your ent husiasm, but is it possible t hat you post your quest ions in t he concerning t hread and not st art a new t opic ? analogguru

Re:
22 Apr 2008, 00:01 floris

Torchy wrote:So use a T LE2642 - it s a dedicat ed rail split t er in a T O92 case. Did you perhaps mean t he T LE2426? I can not f ind any inf o about t he T LE2642.

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 01:03 Anonymous

Sorry, t ypo ... ht t p://f ocus.t i.com/docs/prod/f olders/p ... 26-q1.ht ml

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 02:12 bajaman

Hi swt T he schemat ic is correct f or t he 10n and t he 1k5 comp pot connect ion t o v1/2 (bias half volt s). Af t er measuring several Vact ec devices and experiment ing wit h dif f erent colour LEDs and dif f erent suppliers LDRs, I have come up wit h some improvement s. First change t he 56 ohm resist or on t he out put of t he LEDs driver op amp st age t o 560 ohm. Second - use 5mm st andard yellow LEDs - NOT the 3mm red ones!!! T hird - select an appropriat e 5mm LDR element - t he one you want is one t hat when held up t o t he light (Sun or what ever), measures about 90 ohms across t he t erminals - NOT the ones that measure 300 ohms or higher, when similarly tested in daylight. T ry t hese suggest ions and I t hink you will get good result s. cheers bajaman

Re: calling baja...bajaman style opt comp br and qs

22 Apr 2008, 11:39 floris

swt wrote:... but when i up t hat pot , t he led works but a dist ort ed signal appears riding on t op of t he clean signal, like a misbiased t ransist or or opamp. I had t he same wit h a Flat line opt ical compressor using a f ast vact rol or a homebuild LED/LDR. T he dist ort ion is due t o t he LDR being t oo f ast in it s at t ack and release responses. T his superimposes t he rect if ied signal back on t he signal t hat is being compressed which we percieve as dist ort ion. T he opt o

compressor only works nicely wit hout t his dist ort ion if t he LDR has a slow enough response t ime so t hat it smoot hs t he rect if ied signal. I ended up using a VT L5C2 which has a 500ms decay t ime and sounded good wit hout dist ort ion: ht t p://opt oelect ronics.perkinelmer.com/ ... l5c1c2.pdf T he VT L5C1 gave me dist ort ion, it has a 35ms decay t ime: ht t p://opt oelect ronics.perkinelmer.com/ ... l5c3c4.pdf

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 11:41 floris

release t ime, response t ime, decay t ime... t oo many words f or t he same t hing... sorry...

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 13:09 bajaman

I have built a couple of t hese - never had any problems wit h dist ort ion bajaman

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 13:46 swt

ups! sorry f or t he double post , and didn't know t he rules about having new post , just t hought t his one was a lit t le old f or get t ing responses. Apologise. I'll t ry disconnect ing t he ldr, if i st ill get t he misbias sound, will check everyt hing again, if i don't , will t ry a dif f erent model. I've used a 10mm f or t he demet er clone, and it works f ine. Also get s really down on t he values, compared t o t he smaller ones. Will report back. T hanks again f or t he replies!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 15:20 floris

bajaman wrote:I have built a couple of t hese - never had any problems wit h dist ort ion Lucky man! Can you conf irm t hat t he LDRs t hat you have used were "slow": Decay t ime > 100ms or somet hing? What I got wit h a f ast LDR, was a sort of sof t f izzy sound on t op of t he clean compressed guit ar sound which was not icable in t he t he release phase. T his "f izz" was louder if t he f requency of t he played not e was lower. T his was complet ely gone when using a slow LDR. Bt w (not t rying t o hijack t his t hread...): If t he LDR is really f ast , t his modulat ion (if not suppressed) would act ually lead t o mult iplicat ion and t hus an oct ave-up kind of ef f ect , right ?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

22 Apr 2008, 20:47 bajaman

Honest ly, where I live, t here are f our ret ail component suppliers - Dick Smit h, Jaycar, Global PC, and Sout h Island Component Cent re. T hey all sell 5 mm oblong LDRs but only Global PC has t he ones t hat go down t o 90 ohms when held up t o t he light . T hese are t he ones t hat I use I believe t hey are

sourced f rom a company in Pert h Aust ralia called ALT RONICS - not sure if t hey have an online presence, but t hey would be wort h Googling. As f or t he delay response t imes - sorry I have not got any inf o in t hat respect . all I know is t hey work great f or my limit er design, when used wit h a 5mm st andard yellow LED. By t he way - check out my rev 2 design - in a separat e t hread but here in DIY project s sect ion, f or more inf o et c. happy limit ing bajaman

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

25 Apr 2008, 17:23 swt

ok. Changed t he led f or a 5mm and t he ldr f or a 10mm and guess what ...it works. guess i learn somet hing new each day....now...i'll go and enjoy a usef ull limit er. It does enhance t he t one in a good way. T hanks St eve!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

25 Apr 2008, 21:49 bajaman

As I ment ioned in t he Opt o limit er rev 2 t hread, a suit able LDR can be obt ained f rom ht t p://www.f ut urlec.com - PHOT OCELL 1 is how it is list ed - 5k light resist ance, 500k dark resist ance. cheers bajaman

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

01 Dec 2009, 19:25 kierc

Sorry t o bump t his up - just f inished put t ing mine t oget her but pret t y sure I wired it wrong because it isn't working! I used "Phot ocell 1" f rom Fut urlec... not sure if it 's t he same one Bajaman had, but it 's pret t y small (smaller t han a 5mm Yellow LED anyway) Well, I couldn't f igure out how t o wire it so I just went wit h t he way pict ured below, and I'm guessing it 's wrong!!

Sympt oms : No signal passing in eit her swit ch posit ion, panel LED doesn't light up - not sure about int ernal one at t he moment ... If anyone could help wit h t he wiring t hat 'd be great !!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 09:39 Jarno

Have you seen t hese sit es? Beavis, st ompboxwiring Gauss Markov, wiring 1590b

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 13:41 kierc

Hi Jarno, T hanks f or t he links - I've seen t hem bef ore and have wired up pedals using t he Beavis way a couple of t imes, but t his pedal has dif f erent connect ions which conf use me, such as having 2 Out put s f rom t he board and 2 pads f or a Swit ch.... Somebody please enlight en me!!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 14:25 Jarno

Not sure what t he t wo pads f or t he swit ch are f or, but you don't really need t o use t he t wo out put s. If you want it t o be t rue bypass, don't use t he buf f ered out . If you do want t o use t he buf f ered out , you only need a DPDT f oot swit ch and just swit ch t he out put f rom buf f ered t o ef f ect out (and a LED on t he remaining pole). Edit :

Could t he t wo swit ch pads be t o bot h swit ch t he indicat or led AND t he ef f ect on/of f led?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 16:59 kierc

Hmm... T hat 's what I t hought I was doing when I wired it like my sket ch I t hought wit h my sket ch t hat t o t he right it would cut of f t he Indicat or LED and pass t he Buf f ered Out put t o t he out put jack, and t o t he lef t it would t urn t he LED on and pass t he ef f ect ed signal out ... I've placed t he Layout over t he PCB t o get a clearer look on everyt hing :

Looks like t he Swit ch breaks t he circuit bet ween t he 2 LEDs which are in series(?), so I t hink it would cut bot h t he indicat or and ef f ect LEDs of f ... I've been out of t he ef f ect world f or a while now, and I just can't see how t o get t his running t hrough my t ired eyes Is t he orient at ion of t he 3PDT swit ch in my sket ch t he right way? wit h t he pins horizont al and t he holes vert ical?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 18:31 kierc

Just been playing wit h t he wiring a bit ... I de-soldered everyt hing f rom t he 3PDT , and soldered t he t wo "Swit ch" wires t oget her t o close t he connect ion and t ry and get some light f rom t he LEDs... Seems t hat no power is get t ing t o t hem I wired t he bat t ery 9v + direct ly t o t he board rat her t han f rom t he DC jack just in case, but st ill no light s was hoping it was just t he wiring or somet hing simple! Anyways... could it be t he LF353N's I got f rom Fut urlec? t he 2SK117? (t his was labelled just "K117" on t he devise?) I'll t ry and get some volt ages and post back

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 19:21 kierc

Got some volt ages : T op LF353N: 1. 4.54 2. 4.49 3. 4.07 4. 0 5. 4.07 6. 4.46 7. 4.47 8. 8.88 Bot t om LF353N: 1. 4.43 2. 4.42 3. 4.32 4. 0 5. 4.43 6. 4.43 7. 5.79 8. 8.79 2SK117 ( haven't got t he pinout handy so I'll say lef t , middle, right as per PCB layout ) Lef t . 8.72 Middle. 2.17 Right . 4.69 T ook t hese wit h a f resh 9v bat t ery t hat read 9.46v at t he board input ... Don't know if anyt hing looks of f or what , but I'm complet ely lost as it is!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

02 Dec 2009, 20:45 Jarno

I t hink t hose volt ages are ok, but it would be really helpf ul if Baja would help out , as I haven't built t his t hing (yet ). I am working on t he compulat or, which is surprisingly similar (alt hough t hat 's a compressor and t his is a limit er ????).

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

03 Dec 2009, 22:43 kierc

Bit of a good updat e I guess!! Got it working t o an ext ent - seems my 3PDT is f ubarred (it 's been in a couple of pedals now I t hink...) I'll f ind somet hing else at some point ... Have hard wired t he "Swit ch" connect ions closed so t he LED's are always working, and also hard wired t he ef f ect ed out put t o t he out put jack, so t hat it s always working Now, t he only t hing is t hat when it "limit s" t he signal is dist ort ed - is t his t he phot ocell? I used Phot ocell 1 f rom Fut urlec paired wit h a st andard 5mm Yellow LED... Cheers f or your help so f ar Jarno - hope your Compulat or build goes nice and smoot hly I'm t empt ed t o build bot h and t ry t o hear t he dif f erent result s...

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

03 Dec 2009, 23:35 Jarno

My f irst react ion was t hat it shouldn't be t he LDR, but looking back in t his t hread, apparent ly t hey can cause mayhem. Maybe add a cap on t he input side of t he LED driver opamp, t o smoot hen out some of t he ripple? Have you measured t he "light " and "dark" resist ance of t he LDR? Alt hough, apparent ly, if it is causing problems it 's because of it react ing t oo f ast , I don't t hink your going t o cat ch t hat behaviour wit h your DMM.

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

04 Dec 2009, 23:29 kierc

Could anybody chime in on t his clipping/dist ort ion/what ever it is? I've changed t he swit ch t o a nice Alpha DPDT I st ole f rom my Echo Base build (was noisy and haven't got round t o f ixing t hat one yet !) T hrough t he buf f ered out put t he signal also clips t o an ext ent but not as drast ic as when limit ed... I t hought t he buf f ered signal wouldn't be passing t hrough t he LED/LDR combo t o share t he problem? If so - could it be somet hing else causing it ? @Jarno, could you explain adding t he cap a bit bet t er f or me? I'm not much of a modder/t inkerer wit h circuit s, usually just build t hem st ock!

I would t ry anot her LDR, but I'd have t o order specially which is expensive and t he Vact rol VT L5C10 used in t he Compulat or is like 5?!? I might have an LDR lef t over f rom my Neovibe build - doubt it would be useable if I even have one t hough! Anybody have a spare t o sell?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

04 Dec 2009, 23:39 bajaman

smallbear has VT L devices if I remember correct ly. bajaman

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

05 Dec 2009, 22:27 kierc

Cheers f or t he input St eve, but (t o me anyway) t hat 's st ill a hell of a lot of money f or such a small part From my sympt oms (in my last post ), do you t hink t he LDR is t he culprit ? as you yourself said t he Fut urlec part is suit able, or were you just going f rom t he light /dark resist ance on paper? as t hey st at e it has a f ast response t ime... I don't suppose you would have a suit able LDR spare t hat you could sell me do you?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

08 Dec 2009, 14:33 swt

hi guys. you can go wit h a st andar ldr, t he problem wit h t he st range dist ort ion is t he second opamp rail clipping. in t he compulat or, i solved t his going higher wit h t he t rimpot , t he 1k1 suggest ed just made t he dist ort ion. In t his case, t he 560 ohm resist or didn't work f or me, can't remember t he value i chose, but go higher and t he dist ort ion will disappear. But , it does change my guit ar t one compared t o t he bypass signal, it makes it a lit t le t hinner, don't know why...

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

15 Dec 2009, 14:35 kierc

Got my VT L5C10 f rom Small Bear t oday (f ast ! was shipping on Sat urday I t hink?!), got it all wired in and I changed t he LED t o an Orange one as I t hink I saw someone suggest it ... (couldn't be bot hered t o swap some out t o t ry, just went wit h it !!) s'all working f ine now - will have t o t ry it bet t er lat er as I could only play quiet earlier, but it had lit t le t o no dist ort ion, and did make it sound a bit f at t er! Will have t o t ry a Compulat or next t ime!

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

20 Dec 2009, 14:12 roseblood11

Hi,

Bajaman, why did you chose a 1n4148 as polarit y prot ect ion diode? Wouldnt t he volt age drop be lower wit h a Schot t ky (1n5819 or similar)?

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

23 Feb 2010, 15:17 pablopearljam

Hi guys, I have been t rying t o build t he Demet er Compulat or, but it is impossible t o get t he VT L5C10 here in Argent ina. I have been t rying t o f ind an alt ernat ive, and t hen I f ound t his project . I have a f ew quest ions: 1. Has anyone t ried t his wit h a bass? Do you t hink it can sound similar/bet t er t o/t han t he compulat or? 2. Does anyone have t he layout and PCB f or t his circuit ? 3. Are t here any audio samples of t his lit t le beast working? I hope t his is not much t rouble f or you t o reply t o T hanks in advance! Pablo

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

20 Dec 2010, 10:16 elz iel

Hi! Im wondering Is it possible t o add Va met er showing gain reduct ion?.

Re: BAJA LA2A Style Optical Limiter

26 Jul 2013, 20:13 matt239

T his seems very cool. T here is some st uf f I don't get about it : What makes it a limit er vs. compressor? Feed-f orward doesn't aut omat ically make it a limit er.. Is somet hing happening t o raise t he t hreshold here so it only act s on peaks? How does t he det ect or/envelope sect ion work; how do t he t wo 1N4148 diodes f unct ion? (I saw what PaulC said about DC of f set , but it 's a bit over my head HOW it act ually works..) Could more cont rol be added: t hreshold? rat io? at t ack? release?