Como hacer un match entre dos columnas en Excel?

Instrucciones
1. 1
Introduce o importa el primer grupo de datos en la columnaA de la hoja de clculo de
Excel.
2. 2
Introduce o importa la segunda columna de datos en lacolumna C de la misma hoja de
clculo.
1. 3
Deja la columna B vaca.
2. 4
Teclea la siguiente frmula en la celda B1:
"=IF(ISERROR(MATCH(A1,$C$1:$C$#,0)),"",A1)", donde # es el nmero de la fila del
ltimo valor de la columna C.
3. 5
Selecciona las celdas de la columna B, empezando en B1, y continuando hacia abajo
hasta llegar al nmero de fila que se corresponde con la ltima fila en las columnas A y
B.
4. 6
Abre el men "Editar", haz clic en "Rellenar" y despus en "Abajo", y habrs terminado
de comparar las celdas. Lacolumna B se rellenar con los nmeros duplicados en
lascolumnas A y C.


Cmo comparar hojas de clculo en Excel 2007

Comparar las hojas de clculo de Microsoft Excel es til cuando se deben analizar las
similitudes y diferencias de los datos. Mediante el uso de la herramienta "Side by Side
View" ("vista lado a lado") en Excel 2007, puedes comparar tablas, grficos y otros
datos, a partir de hojas de clculo independientes, dentro de la misma ventana de
Excel. Adems, puedes sincronizar el desplazamiento de cada hoja de clculo, lo que
permite comparar los datos a travs de la ventana de Excel. Utiliza la opcin "Side by
Side View" para analizar los datos de la hoja de clculo de Excel y reducir los errores
al hacer comparaciones visuales.
Instrucciones
Comparar hojas de clculo en el mismo libro
1. 1

Jupiterimages/Comstock/Getty Images
Haz clic en la pestaa "Ver" y haz clic en "Nueva ventana" de la "ventana" del grupo.
2. 2

Michael Blann/Lifesize/Getty Images
Haz clic en el botn "Side by Side View" de la "ventana" del grupo.
3. 3

PhotoObjects.net/PhotoObjects.net/Getty Images
Haz clic en las pestaas en la parte inferior de cada hoja de clculo para mostrar las
hojas de clculo que deseas comparar.
4. 4

Hemera Technologies/AbleStock.com/Getty Images
Haz clic en la opcin "Desplazamiento sincrnico" de la "Ventana" del grupo para
desplazarte entre ambas hojas de clculo al mismo tiempo.

Comparar hojas de libros diferentes
1. 1

Jupiterimages/Creatas/Getty Images
Abre los dos libros que contienen las hojas de clculo que deseas comparar.
2. 2

Jupiterimages/Photos.com/Getty Images
Haz clic en la pestaa "Ver" y luego en "Nueva ventana" de la "ventana" del grupo.
3. 3

Jupiterimages/Polka Dot/Getty Images
Haz clic en el botn "Side by Side View" de la "ventana" del grupo.
4. 4

Jupiterimages/Photos.com/Getty Images
Haz clic en las pestaas en la parte inferior de cada hoja de clculo para mostrar las
hojas de clculo que deseas comparar.
5. 5

Ablestock.com/AbleStock.com/Getty Images
Haz clic en la opcin "Desplazamiento sincrnico" de la "ventana" del grupo para
desplazarte entre ambas hojas de clculo al mismo tiempo.









Como comparar dos listas en Excel?

Otra tarea bastante comn en Excel es comparar entre dos listas. El objetivo es encontrar qu diferencias hay
entre dos listas (que personas de una lista no aparecen en la otra, por ejemplo). Este tipo de comparacin se
puede hacer de varias maneras. En esta nota mostrar cmo hacerlo usandoConditional Formatting (Data --
-> Conditional Formatting).
Supongamos esta hoja



Para sealar los faltantes en cada lista, daremos un fondo de color azul a los nombre de la lista 1 que no
aparecen en la lista 2 y un fondo de color rosa a los nombre de la lista 2 que no aparecen en la lista 1.
Procedemos de la siguiente manera:
1. seleccionamos el rango de los nombres en la lista 1 (A2:A10)
2. en la barra del men pulsamos Format ---> Conditional Formating
3. seleccionamos Formula Is
4. en la ventanilla escribimos la formula =COUNTIF($B$2:$B$10,A2)=0 (prestar atencin al signo $ en la frmula)
5. apretar el botn Format, seleccionar Pattern y elegir el color azul.



Ahora hacemos lo mismo con la segunda lista (el rango ser B2:B10) y utilizamos la frmula
=COUNTIF($A$2:$A$10,B2)=0
Apretamos OK



Ahora podemos ver claramente quien falta en cada lista.
Otra tcnica es utilizar la frmula =MATCH, lo que mostrar en alguna futura nota.
1. Hi,

In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
of powers that falls in each quadrant?

I: +P, +Q
II: -P, +Q
II: -P, -Q
IV: +P, -Q

where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.

Thanks in advance.


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 8, 2010
#1
1. Advertising
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2.
daestromGuest
narke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>
> I: +P, +Q
> II: -P, +Q
> II: -P, -Q
> IV: +P, -Q
>
> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

What is it you don't understand?

Negative real power simply means that power is flowing in the direction
opposite from convention. For a generator, it would mean that power is
flowing from the grid/bus into the generator to keep it spinning. This
happens when the engine/turbine is not generating enough power to
overcome friction/windage losses and the electrical bus has to supply
power into the generator to keep it spinning. (it does NOT mean the
generator shaft has reversed its direction of rotation)

Similarly, negative reactive power means reactive power is flowing in
the direction opposite from convention. Normally a generator supplies
reactive power to a bus to 'feed' the reactive loads on the bus.
Convention is that inductive loads consume 'positive reactive power' and
capacitive loads are said to supply 'positive reactive power'. You
could also argue that capacitive loads supply 'negative' reactive power
which cancels out the 'positive' reactive power of inductive loads.

For a generator, reactive power is usually labeled 'positive' when it is
over-excited and supplying reactive power to inductive loads. If
under-excited, it actually draws reactive power from an infinite bus
(its reactive power is 'negative').

daestrom
daestrom, Jun 8, 2010
#2
1. Advertising
Ads by Google
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www.datasheets360.com/lm339+datasheet
3.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
> narke wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>
>> I: +P, +Q
>> II: -P, +Q
>> II: -P, -Q
>> IV: +P, -Q
>>
>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>
> What is it you don't understand?
>

Thanks for the good explaination, but I still have some difficulties in
understanding, please see my comments below.

> Negative real power simply means that power is flowing in the direction
> opposite from convention. For a generator, it would mean that power is
> flowing from the grid/bus into the generator to keep it spinning. This
> happens when the engine/turbine is not generating enough power to
> overcome friction/windage losses and the electrical bus has to supply
> power into the generator to keep it spinning. (it does NOT mean the
> generator shaft has reversed its direction of rotation)

Because my domain is three-phase electricity meters that are installed
in utilities and high load users. So I like to ask, when the meters
observed negative real power, does it mean that the energy is flowing
back to from consumer side to the grid side?

>
> Similarly, negative reactive power means reactive power is flowing in
> the direction opposite from convention. Normally a generator supplies
> reactive power to a bus to 'feed' the reactive loads on the bus.
> Convention is that inductive loads consume 'positive reactive power' and
> capacitive loads are said to supply 'positive reactive power'. You
> could also argue that capacitive loads supply 'negative' reactive power
> which cancels out the 'positive' reactive power of inductive loads.

That sounds clear. And, for the follow two AC circuits,

Setup A:
------L------+
|
+----R------Electricity Meter--
|
------C------+

Setup B:
----R------Electricity Meter--

where L is ideal inductor and C is ideal capacitor, and impedance L is
same as impedance C in maganitute.

So, can I deduce followings?

1. the apparent energy observed in A is same as that in B;
2. real energy in A is same as real energy in B, and that amounts to I^2
* R;
3. reactive energy in A is same as reactive energy in B, and that
amounts to zero.


> For a generator, reactive power is usually labeled 'positive' when it is
> over-excited and supplying reactive power to inductive loads. If
> under-excited, it actually draws reactive power from an infinite bus
> (its reactive power is 'negative').

I don't understant what you mean 'infinite bus'.

>
> daestrom


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 9, 2010
#3
4.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-09, narke <> wrote:
> On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
>> narke wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>>
>>> I: +P, +Q
>>> II: -P, +Q
>>> II: -P, -Q
>>> IV: +P, -Q
>>>
>>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What is it you don't understand?
>>
>
> Thanks for the good explaination, but I still have some difficulties in
> understanding, please see my comments below.
>
>> Negative real power simply means that power is flowing in the direction
>> opposite from convention. For a generator, it would mean that power is
>> flowing from the grid/bus into the generator to keep it spinning. This
>> happens when the engine/turbine is not generating enough power to
>> overcome friction/windage losses and the electrical bus has to supply
>> power into the generator to keep it spinning. (it does NOT mean the
>> generator shaft has reversed its direction of rotation)
>
> Because my domain is three-phase electricity meters that are installed
> in utilities and high load users. So I like to ask, when the meters
> observed negative real power, does it mean that the energy is flowing
> back to from consumer side to the grid side?
>
>>
>> Similarly, negative reactive power means reactive power is flowing in
>> the direction opposite from convention. Normally a generator supplies
>> reactive power to a bus to 'feed' the reactive loads on the bus.
>> Convention is that inductive loads consume 'positive reactive power' and
>> capacitive loads are said to supply 'positive reactive power'. You
>> could also argue that capacitive loads supply 'negative' reactive power
>> which cancels out the 'positive' reactive power of inductive loads.
>
> That sounds clear. And, for the follow two AC circuits,
>
> Setup A:
> ------L------+
> |
> +----R------Electricity Meter--
> |
> ------C------+
>
> Setup B:
> ----R------Electricity Meter--
>
> where L is ideal inductor and C is ideal capacitor, and impedance L is
> same as impedance C in maganitute.
>
> So, can I deduce followings?
>
> 1. the apparent energy observed in A is same as that in B;
> 2. real energy in A is same as real energy in B, and that amounts to I^2
> * R;
> 3. reactive energy in A is same as reactive energy in B, and that
> amounts to zero.
>
>

Is there an answer? Thanks in advance.

>> For a generator, reactive power is usually labeled 'positive' when it is
>> over-excited and supplying reactive power to inductive loads. If
>> under-excited, it actually draws reactive power from an infinite bus
>> (its reactive power is 'negative').
>
> I don't understant what you mean 'infinite bus'.
>
>>
>> daestrom
>
>


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 10, 2010
#4
5.
GuestGuest
"narke" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
>> narke wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>>
>>> I: +P, +Q
>>> II: -P, +Q
>>> II: -P, -Q
>>> IV: +P, -Q
>>>
>>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What is it you don't understand?
>>
>
> Thanks for the good explaination, but I still have some difficulties in
> understanding, please see my comments below.
>
>> Negative real power simply means that power is flowing in the direction
>> opposite from convention. For a generator, it would mean that power is
>> flowing from the grid/bus into the generator to keep it spinning. This
>> happens when the engine/turbine is not generating enough power to
>> overcome friction/windage losses and the electrical bus has to supply
>> power into the generator to keep it spinning. (it does NOT mean the
>> generator shaft has reversed its direction of rotation)
>
> Because my domain is three-phase electricity meters that are installed
> in utilities and high load users. So I like to ask, when the meters
> observed negative real power, does it mean that the energy is flowing
> back to from consumer side to the grid side?
----------------------------
Yes
------------------
>
>>
>> Similarly, negative reactive power means reactive power is flowing in
>> the direction opposite from convention. Normally a generator supplies
>> reactive power to a bus to 'feed' the reactive loads on the bus.
>> Convention is that inductive loads consume 'positive reactive power' and
>> capacitive loads are said to supply 'positive reactive power'. You
>> could also argue that capacitive loads supply 'negative' reactive power
>> which cancels out the 'positive' reactive power of inductive loads.
>
> That sounds clear. And, for the follow two AC circuits,
>
> Setup A:
> ------L------+
> |
> +----R------Electricity Meter--
> |
> ------C------+
>
> Setup B:
> ----R------Electricity Meter--
>
> where L is ideal inductor and C is ideal capacitor, and impedance L is
> same as impedance C in maganitute.
>
> So, can I deduce followings?
>
> 1. the apparent energy observed in A is same as that in B;
> 2. real energy in A is same as real energy in B, and that amounts to I^2
> * R;
> 3. reactive energy in A is same as reactive energy in B, and that
> amounts to zero.
---------------
Your circuit A is hard to follow. It doesn't appear to be either a 3 phase
or a single phase circuit.
Source and return paths are omitted.

Possibly this single phase circuit may help.
----1------+---2-----+----3----+
source | | |
V L C R Impedance
conditions as above
| | |
-----------+----------+--------- +

Meter connected at 1 (and return) , 2 or 3 real power and energy is measured
At 1,3 there will be no reactive measured.
At 2 there will be reactive measured and it will be negative (capacitive
load).

Does this help?

>
>
>> For a generator, reactive power is usually labeled 'positive' when it is
>> over-excited and supplying reactive power to inductive loads. If
>> under-excited, it actually draws reactive power from an infinite bus
>> (its reactive power is 'negative').
>
> I don't understant what you mean 'infinite bus'.
----------------
This means an ideal voltage source (no internal impedance) and implies, in
practice, that the source is so large
that what you connect to it doesn't measurably affect its voltage.

--
-----
Don Kelly
cross out to reply
Guest, Jun 10, 2010
#5
6.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-10, <> <> wrote:
>
>
>
> "narke" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
>>> narke wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>>>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>>>
>>>> I: +P, +Q
>>>> II: -P, +Q
>>>> II: -P, -Q
>>>> IV: +P, -Q
>>>>
>>>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What is it you don't understand?
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the good explaination, but I still have some difficulties in
>> understanding, please see my comments below.
>>
>>> Negative real power simply means that power is flowing in the direction
>>> opposite from convention. For a generator, it would mean that power is
>>> flowing from the grid/bus into the generator to keep it spinning. This
>>> happens when the engine/turbine is not generating enough power to
>>> overcome friction/windage losses and the electrical bus has to supply
>>> power into the generator to keep it spinning. (it does NOT mean the
>>> generator shaft has reversed its direction of rotation)
>>
>> Because my domain is three-phase electricity meters that are installed
>> in utilities and high load users. So I like to ask, when the meters
>> observed negative real power, does it mean that the energy is flowing
>> back to from consumer side to the grid side?
> ----------------------------
> Yes
> ------------------
>>
>>>
>>> Similarly, negative reactive power means reactive power is flowing in
>>> the direction opposite from convention. Normally a generator supplies
>>> reactive power to a bus to 'feed' the reactive loads on the bus.
>>> Convention is that inductive loads consume 'positive reactive power' and
>>> capacitive loads are said to supply 'positive reactive power'. You
>>> could also argue that capacitive loads supply 'negative' reactive power
>>> which cancels out the 'positive' reactive power of inductive loads.
>>
>> That sounds clear. And, for the follow two AC circuits,
>>
>> Setup A:
>> ------L------+
>> |
>> +----R------Electricity Meter--
>> |
>> ------C------+
>>
>> Setup B:
>> ----R------Electricity Meter--
>>
>> where L is ideal inductor and C is ideal capacitor, and impedance L is
>> same as impedance C in maganitute.
>>
>> So, can I deduce followings?
>>
>> 1. the apparent energy observed in A is same as that in B;
>> 2. real energy in A is same as real energy in B, and that amounts to I^2
>> * R;
>> 3. reactive energy in A is same as reactive energy in B, and that
>> amounts to zero.
> ---------------
> Your circuit A is hard to follow. It doesn't appear to be either a 3 phase
> or a single phase circuit.
> Source and return paths are omitted.
>
> Possibly this single phase circuit may help.
> ----1------+---2-----+----3----+
> source | | |
> V L C R Impedance
> conditions as above
> | | |
> -----------+----------+--------- +
>
> Meter connected at 1 (and return) , 2 or 3 real power and energy is measured
> At 1,3 there will be no reactive measured.
> At 2 there will be reactive measured and it will be negative (capacitive
> load).
>
> Does this help?
>

I fell it can be very helpful ... just now the format of the graph not
good, it's hard to get the information. Would you please redraw the
circuit to make it clear? (yes, single phase is assumed)

Many thanks!

>>
>>
>>> For a generator, reactive power is usually labeled 'positive' when it is
>>> over-excited and supplying reactive power to inductive loads. If
>>> under-excited, it actually draws reactive power from an infinite bus
>>> (its reactive power is 'negative').
>>
>> I don't understant what you mean 'infinite bus'.
> ----------------
> This means an ideal voltage source (no internal impedance) and implies, in
> practice, that the source is so large
> that what you connect to it doesn't measurably affect its voltage.
>


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 11, 2010
#6
7.
Andrew GabrielGuest
In article <>,
narke <> writes:
> Hi,
>
> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>
> I: +P, +Q
> II: -P, +Q
> II: -P, -Q
> IV: +P, -Q
>
> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I wrote a java applet which allows you to play with phase shift and
see the effect on the reactive power draw. You can see how the system
effectively borrows energy from the source and returns it at different
points in the cycle. This excess energy you repeatedly borrow and return
is the reactive power, whereas the energy you take, use, and don't
return is the real power.

http://blogs.sun.com/agabriel/entry/ac_power_power_factor_explained

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Andrew Gabriel, Jun 11, 2010
#7
8.
GuestGuest
ply

"narke" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On 2010-06-10, <> <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> "narke" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
>>>> narke wrote:

> I fell it can be very helpful ... just now the format of the graph not
> good, it's hard to get the information. Would you please redraw the
> circuit to make it clear? (yes, single phase is assumed)
>
> Many thanks!
----1------+---2-----+----3----+
source | | |
V L C R
| | |
-----------+----------+--------- +

L, C and R in parallel:
Source at 1 and L between 1 and 2, C between 2 and 3 and R after 3
meter at 1, 2 or 3 with its voltage leads to bottom line

KWH reading the same at all locations and the same as if L and C didn't
exist
Reactive (KVARH) same as without L and C for meter at 1 or 3 (zero)
Reactive negative with meter at 3
Meter reads KWH and KVARH "downstream" of its location.
--
-----
Don Kelly
cross out to re
Guest, Jun 12, 2010
#8
9.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-11, Andrew Gabriel <> wrote:
> In article <>,
> narke <> writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>
>> I: +P, +Q
>> II: -P, +Q
>> II: -P, -Q
>> IV: +P, -Q
>>
>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> I wrote a java applet which allows you to play with phase shift and
> see the effect on the reactive power draw. You can see how the system
> effectively borrows energy from the source and returns it at different
> points in the cycle. This excess energy you repeatedly borrow and return
> is the reactive power, whereas the energy you take, use, and don't
> return is the real power.
>
> http://blogs.sun.com/agabriel/entry/ac_power_power_factor_explained
>

That's so much wonderful!!! Actualy, in the way of learning these
concepts these days, I also came with an idea that is to do exactyly
what you did after I really understand the knowledge. But I plan to
implement the demo application in other language. So I am thinking,
could you share your source code to me, so I can see the algorithm. If
you don't want to share, it is okay. You've already help anyway.

Thanks again.


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 12, 2010
#9
10.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-12, <> <> wrote:
> ply
>
> "narke" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> On 2010-06-10, <> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "narke" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> On 2010-06-08, daestrom <> wrote:
>>>>> narke wrote:
>
>> I fell it can be very helpful ... just now the format of the graph not
>> good, it's hard to get the information. Would you please redraw the
>> circuit to make it clear? (yes, single phase is assumed)
>>
>> Many thanks!
> ----1------+---2-----+----3----+
> source | | |
> V L C R
> | | |
> -----------+----------+--------- +
>
> L, C and R in parallel:
> Source at 1 and L between 1 and 2, C between 2 and 3 and R after 3
> meter at 1, 2 or 3 with its voltage leads to bottom line
>
> KWH reading the same at all locations and the same as if L and C didn't
> exist

Cleared for this, many thanks!

> Reactive (KVARH) same as without L and C for meter at 1 or 3 (zero)

Also cleared! Thanks.

> Reactive negative with meter at 3

I assume you meant to say 'Reactive negative with meter at 2', right?

> Meter reads KWH and KVARH "downstream" of its location.

Can you explain what mean "downstream" ?


For the serial connection of L,C,R in the following circuit:

--- AC Source V -------L-------R-------C---------
1 2 3

Please also give me an answer for meter readings of kWh and kVAh in
point 1, 2, 3 respectively.

Thanks.


--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 12, 2010
#10
11.
narkeGuest
On 2010-06-12, narke <> wrote:
> On 2010-06-11, Andrew Gabriel <> wrote:
>> In article <>,
>> narke <> writes:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In a AC power quadrant diagram, how to understand the physical meanings
>>> of powers that falls in each quadrant?
>>>
>>> I: +P, +Q
>>> II: -P, +Q
>>> II: -P, -Q
>>> IV: +P, -Q
>>>
>>> where P denotes real power and Q denotes reactive power.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> I wrote a java applet which allows you to play with phase shift and
>> see the effect on the reactive power draw. You can see how the system
>> effectively borrows energy from the source and returns it at different
>> points in the cycle. This excess energy you repeatedly borrow and return
>> is the reactive power, whereas the energy you take, use, and don't
>> return is the real power.
>>
>> http://blogs.sun.com/agabriel/entry/ac_power_power_factor_explained
>>
>
> That's so much wonderful!!! Actualy, in the way of learning these
> concepts these days, I also came with an idea that is to do exactyly
> what you did after I really understand the knowledge. But I plan to
> implement the demo application in other language. So I am thinking,
> could you share your source code to me, so I can see the algorithm. If
> you don't want to share, it is okay. You've already help anyway.
>
> Thanks again.
>
>

Andrew,

I have another qeustion after read your web page. When you demostrate
the concepts, your were using the areas of the curve. The areas (red,
grean), i think, are energes. And, I feel it can be decuded from your
tratement, that
VAH = kWh + kvarh (1)
where,
* kWh is (red area) - (green area)
* kvarh = (green area)
* VAH = (red area)

Am I right?

However, we know
S^2 = P^2 + Q^2 (2)
where, S is apparent power, P is real power or true power, Q is reactive
power.

Now I get problem, since (2) can not be deduced from (1). Did you see
it? Please help.



--
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
-- Schopenhauer

narke
narke, Jun 12, 2010
#11
12.
Andrew GabrielGuest
In article <>,
narke <> writes:
>
> Andrew,
>
> I have another qeustion after read your web page. When you demostrate
> the concepts, your were using the areas of the curve. The areas (red,
> grean), i think, are energes. And, I feel it can be decuded from your
> tratement, that
> VAH = kWh + kvarh (1)
> where,
> * kWh is (red area) - (green area)
> * kvarh = (green area)
> * VAH = (red area)
>
> Am I right?

No. It's simply red area is energy drawn from supply (quadrants I and
III in your original post), and green is energy returned to supply
(quadrants II and IV in your original post). So red includes
both real and reactive energy draw, but green can only be reactive.
Since the reactive energy returned to the supply (green) will be
same as reactive energy drawn from supply, you can assume that a
part of the red area equal in size to the green area is also reactive
energy, and the remainder of the red is real power. However, it
doesn't make any sense to try and identify that part because you can't
sensibly say which particular bit of the energy drawn from the supply
(red) is reactive and will be returned, verses another bit of the red
which is not reactive and will be burned in the load. i.e. at a phase
angle of 60 (PF=0.5), 1/3rd of the red area is reactive and 2/3rds
is real, but there's no way to say which of the red pixels is reactive
or which is real.

So:
Wh is fixed in this example. It's same as red area at phase angle = 0.
VAh will be red + green.
VArh will be 2*green.

> However, we know
> S^2 = P^2 + Q^2 (2)
> where, S is apparent power, P is real power or true power, Q is reactive
> power.

That comes from the vector diagram equalatral triangle.
It should be same result, but at 01:05 in the middle of the night
here, I can't immediately think how you could prove it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Andrew Gabriel, Jun 13, 2010
#12
13.
narkeGuest
Hi, Andrew, I just came back for a travel. Sorry for so late following
the thread.

On 2010-06-13, Andrew Gabriel <> wrote:
> In article <>,
> narke <> writes:
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> I have another qeustion after read your web page. When you demostrate
>> the concepts, your were using the areas of the curve. The areas (red,
>> grean), i think, are energes. And, I feel it can be decuded from your
>> tratement, that
>> VAH = kWh + kvarh (1)
>> where,
>> * kWh is (red area) - (green area)
>> * kvarh = (green area)
>> * VAH = (red area)
>>
>> Am I right?
>
> No. It's simply red area is energy drawn from supply (quadrants I and
> III in your original post), and green is energy returned to supply
> (quadrants II and IV in your original post). So red includes
> both real and reactive energy draw, but green can only be reactive.
> Since the reactive energy returned to the supply (green) will be
> same as reactive energy drawn from supply, you can assume that a
> part of the red area equal in size to the green area is also reactive
> energy, and the remainder of the red is real power. However, it
> doesn't make any sense to try and identify that part because you can't
> sensibly say which particular bit of the energy drawn from the supply
> (red) is reactive and will be returned, verses another bit of the red
> which is not reactive and will be burned in the load. i.e. at a phase
> angle of 60 (PF=0.5), 1/3rd of the red area is reactive and 2/3rds
> is real, but there's no way to say which of the red pixels is reactive
> or which is real.
>
> So:
> Wh is fixed in this example. It's same as red area at phase angle = 0.
> VAh will be red + green.
> VArh will be 2*green.
>

Okay, you fixed my error in understanding what is apparent power. So,
let me rearrange the result as:

Wh = red - green
VAh = (red - green) + (green + green) = Wh + WArh
VArh = 2*green

So, it still shows that VAh = Wh + WArh. To my mind, it still conflicts
with S^2 = P^2 + Q^2, becaseu I think S is WAh/h, P is Wh/h, Q is
WArh/h.

>> However, we know
>> S^2 = P^2 + Q^2 (2)
>> where, S is apparent power, P is real power or true power, Q is reactive
>> power.
>
> That comes from the vector diagram equalatral triangle.
> It should be same result, but at 01:05 in the middle of the night
> here, I can't immediately think how you could prove it.

As stated above, yes I don't see a sign that I can prove it. So please
help

-
narke


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phase.html