EXPERIENCE OF HIGHER PLANES OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN LONG-TERM

PRACTITIONERS OF INTEGRAL YOGA

A dissertation presented to
The Faculty of Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center
In partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D) in Psychology

by

Michele Riley Kramer














San Francisco, California
June 2008




UMI Number: 3396802






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Approval of the Dissertation



EXPERIENCE OF HIGHER PLANES OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN LONG-TERM
PRACTITIONERS OF INTEGRAL YOGA



This dissertation by Michele Riley Kramer has been approved by the committee members
below, who recommend it be accepted by the faculty of Saybrook Graduate School and
Research Center in partial fulfillment of requirements for the degree of

Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology




Dissertation Committee:

__________________________________________________________
Allan Combs, Ph.D., Chair Date


__________________________________________________________
David Lukoff, Ph.D., Member Date


___________________________________________________________
Jrgen Kremer, Ph.D., Member Date








ii
Abstract

EXPERIENCE OF HIGHER PLANES OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN LONG-TERM
PRACTITIONERS OF INTEGRAL YOGA


Michele Riley Kramer

Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center


Integral Yoga, developed by Sri Aurobindo, unites the ascending spiritual
aspiration of the individual to access the Divine, found in many mystical and spiritual
traditions, with the expectation of the descent of the Divine into the individual. The
outcome of Integral Yoga is the evolutionary transformation of a human being to a
spiritual being. Sri Aurobindo described the order of higher planes of consciousness,
which form the conduit between the individual and the Divine. This study proposed the
following questions: What is the experience of being in higher planes of consciousness in
Integral Yoga: levels of consciousness beyond higher mind, described as the beginning of
the superconscient realms of consciousness? Can reading about these experiences
somehow impact or change the reader? Studies on such experiences are rare.
Fourteen long-term practitioners from the Integral Yoga community participated
in semi-structured interviews directed at exploring their spiritual practices and significant
experiences. The range of Integral Yoga practice was 10 to 35 years, with 9 practitioners
having at least 30 years experience. Data from the transcribed interviews were analyzed
for themes and patterns. Interview transcripts served as the basis for developing narrative
stories about their experiences. The impact of participation in the study for the researcher,
practitioners, and story readers was assessed.
iii
Themes that emerged from the data were that spiritual practices are as unique as
the individual but possess commonalities with others, experiences and the integration of
them are equally important, and the spiritual path is a lifelong process. Feedback from 10
practitioners and 3 readers indicated that their participation affected them in some way.
Findings were unexpected. While 6 practitioners described experiences in higher
planes of consciousness, they were not as important as the integration and usefulness of
the experiences afterward. Other experiences were equally significant. The findings
resulted in a re-evaluation of the original research focus. Story readers reactions suggest
that research information in the form of stories has an impact. Findings and stories
contribute to the fields of transpersonal psychology, consciousness evolution, and
Integral Yoga.



Dedication

This study is dedicated to Sri Aurobindo, the Mother, my coresearchers, and the
Integral Yoga Community. I have felt guided by Sri Aurobindo and the Mother since the
beginning. I hope this study will contribute to the knowledge pool in Integral Yoga.
My wonderful coresearchers are true pioneer-explorers in consciousness and
consciousness evolution. They are truly brave souls. They broke long-held taboos in
speaking with me about their experiences and revealing very personal aspects of
themselves. They also risked exposure of their identities, which I have worked diligently
to guard. I am deeply honored to know them.


iv
Acknowledgments

I want to thank the members of my committee: Dr, Allan Combs, my chair, Dr.
David Lukoff, and Dr. Jrgen Kremer. Their confidence in me, as well as their
knowledge and patience, kept me going.
I appreciate that Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center exists, so that
those of us who do not fit in anywhere else can study unusual topics in a highly regarded
transpersonal environment. This study would not have been as profound and
transformative for me if not for the creators of the transpersonal research method of
organic inquiry, especially Dr. Jennifer Clements, who graciously provided me access to
her unpublished manuscript.
I would not have finished this study without the love and support of family and
friends. Dr. Eugene Whitworth, Sri Aurobindo, and the Mother were invaluable in their
support in the nonphysical realms. And the friends here in the physical world include
Ruth Whitworth, Beverlyan Burnett, Ginny Bryan, Sunny Wofford, and Terry Vitorelo,
who have supported me from the beginning.
Above all, I am grateful for the love and support of my husband, Jeffrey, and my
children, Joshua and Hannah. They have been, and continue to be, proud of me.

v

TABLE OF CONTENTS


List of Tables ..................................................................................................................... ix
List of Figures ......................................................................................................................x
List of Figures in Appendixes ............................................................................................ xi

CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION ........................................................................................1
Purpose .................................................................................................................................2
Research Questions ..............................................................................................................2
Significance of the Study .....................................................................................................3
Clarification of Terms ..........................................................................................................3
Meditation Research ............................................................................................................6
Integral Yoga and Meditation ................................................................................12
Summary ................................................................................................................13
Issues in Meditation Research ...............................................................................14
Other Considerations .........................................................................................................16
Mystic and Transcendent Experiences...................................................................16
Integral Yoga and Experiential Accounts ..............................................................20
Transpersonal Theory and Participatory Knowing ................................................20
Subtle Energy and Human Energy Fields ..............................................................22
Conclusion .........................................................................................................................27

CHAPTER 2: REVIEW OF THE LITERATURE ............................................................29
The Psychology of Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga ...........................................................29
Sri Aurobindo: A Brief History .........................................................................................32
Definition of Terms............................................................................................................34
Integral Yoga Psychology ..................................................................................................39
Kaleidoscope View I: Personality ......................................................................................43
Outer and Inner Being ..........................................................................................43
Ego .............................................................................................................44
Physical/Body ............................................................................................46
Mind/Mental ..............................................................................................46
Vital/Life ....................................................................................................47
Psychic Being or Soul ............................................................................................48
Central Being .........................................................................................................49
Kaleidoscope View II: Consciousness ...............................................................................50
Inconscient, Subconscient, and Outer Consciousness ...........................................51
Inconscient or Unconscious .......................................................................51
Subconscient or Subconscious ...................................................................51
Outer Consciousness ..................................................................................53
Subliminal Consciousness and Cosmic Consciousness .........................................53
Subliminal Consciousness .........................................................................53
Cosmic Consciousness ...............................................................................54
Intermediate Zone ......................................................................................55
vi
Superconscient/Superconsciousness ......................................................................56
Supermind ..................................................................................................57
Kaleidoscope View III: Transformation ............................................................................58
Additional Considerations Regarding the Psychology of Integral Yoga ...........................60
Integral Yoga and Spiritual Traditions ..................................................................60
Ken Wilbers Integral Psychology .........................................................................61
Integral Yoga Psychology, Psychology and
Transpersonal Psychology .....................................................................................65
Correlations Between Integral Yoga Psychology and Current Research ..............69
Evolution of Consciousness ...................................................................................70
Conclusion .........................................................................................................................71

CHAPTER 3: RESEARCH METHOD AND DESIGN ....................................................74
Transpersonal Research Methodology ...............................................................................74
Integral Inquiry ......................................................................................................76
Intuitive Inquiry .....................................................................................................77
Transpersonally Informed Phenomenological Inquiry ..........................................77
Transpersonal Inquiry Informed by Exceptional Human Experience ...................77
Organic Inquiry ..................................................................................................................78
Limitations .............................................................................................................83
Validity and Reliability ..........................................................................................85
Precautions in Profound Interplays Between Individuals ......................................88
Some Variations of Organic Inquiry for the Current Study ...................................89
Pertinent Studies in Organic Inquiry......................................................................90
Summary ................................................................................................................92
Research Design.................................................................................................................92
Preparation .............................................................................................................93
Confidentiality and Anonymity .................................................................93
Participant Selection and Recruitment .......................................................94
Inspiration ..............................................................................................................96
Interview Process .......................................................................................96
Analysis of DataPreliminary ..................................................................98
Integration ............................................................................................................101
Analysis of DataFinal ..........................................................................101
Presentation of Findings ..........................................................................101
Assessing Impact .....................................................................................102
Summary ..........................................................................................................................102

CHAPTER 4: RESULTS .................................................................................................105
Analysis of Findings ........................................................................................................105
Schema Used for Analysis ...................................................................................106
Coresearchers and Pioneer-Explorers ..............................................................................107
1119......................................................................................................................108
Akroyd .................................................................................................................109
Annie Dutts ..........................................................................................................109
Cathleen Carmichel ..............................................................................................110
vii
Devotee ................................................................................................................110
Gopal ....................................................................................................................111
Janaka ...................................................................................................................111
Lizzie....................................................................................................................112
Om Shanti ............................................................................................................113
Pancho ..................................................................................................................114
Rishi .....................................................................................................................114
Rose......................................................................................................................115
Running Water .....................................................................................................116
Sphinx ..................................................................................................................116
Themes and Patterns ........................................................................................................117
Theme: Each Sadhana is Unique, Just Like Everyone Elses ..............................117
Pattern: Individual Sadhanas....................................................................117
Pattern: Identification with Sri Aurobindo and The Mother ....................119
Pattern: Dynamic of Intention, Will, Aspiration, and Surrender .............120
Theme: Significant Experiences Account for Half the Journey; The Other
Half is Integration ................................................................................................120
Pattern: States of Conscious with Experiences ........................................121
Pattern: Ascending ...................................................................................121
Pattern: Descending .................................................................................122
Pattern: Psychic Being .............................................................................122
Pattern: Encounters with Nonlight Forces ...............................................123
Patterns: Planes ........................................................................................123
Theme: We Never Get Off the Path; Sadhana is a Lifelong Process ...................125
Pattern: Challenges ..................................................................................125
Pattern: Feeling Isolated, Not Fitting In, Involvement in the Yoga
Community ..............................................................................................127
Other Findings .....................................................................................................127
Impact of Study: Coresearchers .......................................................................................128
1119......................................................................................................................129
Akroyd .................................................................................................................129
Gopal ....................................................................................................................129
Lizzie....................................................................................................................129
Om Shanti ............................................................................................................129
Pancho ..................................................................................................................129
Rishi .....................................................................................................................129
Rose......................................................................................................................130
Running Water .....................................................................................................130
Sphinx ..................................................................................................................130
Presentation of Findings: Stories .....................................................................................131
Creating Summary Stories and Narrative ............................................................131
Impact of Study: Readers .................................................................................................132
Ariel .....................................................................................................................132
Beth ......................................................................................................................133
Cassie ...................................................................................................................134
Supplemental Findings.....................................................................................................135
viii
Face-to-Face versus Telephone Interviews ..........................................................135
Impact of Study: Transcribers ..............................................................................135
Conclusion .......................................................................................................................137

CHAPTER 5: DISCUSSION ...........................................................................................141
Research Questions ..........................................................................................................141
Research Question 1: What is the Experience of Being in Higher Planes of
Consciousness in Integral Yoga? .........................................................................141
Research Question 2: Using the Research Method of Organic Inquiry, Can
Sharing This Experience Somehow Impact or Change the Reader? ..................143
The Mother.......................................................................................................................144
Supplemental Discussion of Findings ..............................................................................146
Experience of Higher Planes ................................................................................146
Movement from the Head and Heart ...................................................................148
Prior and Synchronistic Experiences ..................................................................149
Incorporation of Other Yogas ..............................................................................150
Issue of Sexual Desire ..........................................................................................151
Taboo Against Sharing Experiences ....................................................................152
Sharing Experiences and the Ripple Effect .........................................................153
Impact of Study: Researcher ............................................................................................154
Delimitations and Additional Limitations .......................................................................157
Delimitations ........................................................................................................157
Limitations ...........................................................................................................158
Directions for Future Research ........................................................................................160
Planes of Consciousness ......................................................................................160
Nonlight Forces ....................................................................................................161
Focus on Readers .................................................................................................161
Face-to-Face and Telephone Interviews ..............................................................162
Summary and Significance of Findings ...........................................................................162

REFERENCES ................................................................................................................167

APPENDIXES .................................................................................................................178
A. Alternative Depictions of Integral Yoga Psychology ....................................178
B. Integral Change of Consciousness in the Individual and Humanity ..............180
C. Letter of Introduction ....................................................................................181
D. Participation Letter and Instructions for Coresearchers .................................182
E. Interview Guide .............................................................................................183
F. Checklist for Analysis of Information ..........................................................185
G. Stories ............................................................................................................186



ix
List of Tables



Table 1: Triple Transformation ..........................................................................................58

Table: 2: Ken Wilbers Integral Psychology Model ..........................................................62

x
List of Figures


Figure 1: Overview of Integral Yoga Psychology .............................................................41

Figure 2: Levels of Consciousness ....................................................................................51

xi
List of Figures in Appendixes
(The letter refers to Appendix)


Figure A1. Cycle of Involution and Evolution ................................................................178
Figure A2. Lowest Plane (Matter) Outer Being............................................................178
Figure A3. Process of Evolutionary Transformation .......................................................178
Figure A4. Triple Transformation Pyramid .....................................................................179
Figure B1. Integral Yoga Process ....................................................................................180
Figure B2. Triple Transformation of Integral Yoga ........................................................180
1
CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION
Individuals reaching advanced states of consciousness are rare (Feuerstein, 1987;
Wilber, 1999, 2000). Studies in the West on these advanced practitioners are rarer still
(Brown, 1986; Brown & Engler, 1986a, 1986b; Brown, 1999; Goleman, 1972a, 1972b,
1974, 1978-79, 1981, 1988). The studies that have been done on these individuals have
focused primarily on the subject of meditation. Individual practitioners who have
accessed higher planes of consciousness are important to the study of the evolution of
human consciousness. Individuals, not populations, are responsible for moving humanity
along the evolutionary path (Dalal, 2001, p. 131).
Sri Aurobindo Ghose (often referred to simply as Sri Aurobindo), one of Indias
preeminent 20th-century sages and philosophers, developed Integral Yoga. He integrated
the other predominant systems of yoga in India. Whereas the goal of other yogas is to
seek union with the Divine, Integral Yogas goal is the descent of the Divine in higher
realms of experience into terrestrial life, bringing a transformation of the entire human
being, mentally, physically, and spiritually.
Long-term practitioners of Integral Yoga may yield considerable information
about the experience of these higher realms. Integral Yoga would appeal to individuals
who are ready and interested in transformation. This population is homogenous in its
intent and therefore may potentially provide transpersonal psychology with significant
information about higher planes of consciousness. Sri Aurobindos followers are aware
and motivated, actively seeking transformation.
Organic inquiry is a qualitative transpersonal research method useful for
psychospiritual growth (Clements, 2002). The experiences of the researcher and
2
participants, as coresearchers, are important to the study. Organic inquiry allows
creativity and innovation in data collection and analysis. Organic inquiry values the use
of nonordinary realms of consciousness to acquire information and knowledge.
Narratives and stories are important tools for conveying study findings. Additionally,
subjective transformation of all involved is an intended goal (Braud, 2004).
This introduction continues with a discussion of the purpose of the study, the
research questions, and a brief clarification of terms. It further addresses meditation
research and issues pertinent to understanding the importance of the study. Other
considerations related to both meditation and this investigation are put into perspective,
such as mystic or transcendent experiences, experiential accounts of Integral Yoga, and
an emerging aspect of transpersonal theory called participatory knowing. The idea of
human beings as energy fields deserves some explanation as well because it will clarify
possible mechanisms involved with organic inquiry research.
Purpose
The purpose of this study is to explore the experience of higher planes of
consciousness in Integral Yoga using the qualitative research method of organic inquiry.
Research Questions
This study poses the following questions: What is the experience of being in
higher planes of consciousness in Integral Yoga? Using the research method of organic
inquiry, can sharing this experience somehow impact or change the reader of these
experiences?
3
Significance of the Study
This study is exploratory. The significance of this study is that it will contribute to
the pool of knowledge about consciousness, spirituality, and meditation. It addresses a
spiritual communityIntegral Yogararely explored. And it adds to a growing body of
research that uses the transpersonal method of organic inquiry. In this way it will add to
the knowledge pool in transpersonal psychology by providing a different avenue of
consciousness research. It integrates the research areas of consciousness, spiritual
practice, transformation, and consciousness evolution.
Clarification of Terms
Explanations of pertinent terms and phrases will be given as they are used. The
next chapter on the psychology of Integral Yoga clarifies a number of them because Sri
Aurobindo sometimes defined terms differently from their common usage. It may be
helpful here, however, to introduce a few in order to understand how they are used in this
study.
The use of the term practitioners rather than meditators best conveys the multi-
level nature of Integral Yoga within the individual. Meditation is only one aspect
involved with consciousness transformation in Integral Yoga.
Higher planes of consciousness are hierarchically advanced realms or worlds of
consciousness beyond higher mind in Integral Yoga. Sri Aurobindo used other phrases
interchangeably to describe these planes. These include higher consciousness
(Aurobindo, 1990, p. 977), higher states of consciousness (Aurobindo, 1990, p. 964),
layers of consciousness (Aurobindo, 1970a, p. 263), and planes of the Mind
(Satprem, 1970, p. 198). Planes are gradations of worlds (Pandit, 1992, p. 186),
4
superimposed structures of higher consciousness that interconnect (Aurobindo, 1970a).
Higher Mind is one of the planes of the spiritual mind, the first and lowest of them; it is
above the normal level (Satprem, 1970, p. 198).
Yoga has a variety of meanings. In Western society, its most common use
describes a practice of bodily exercises called Hatha Yoga. Unfortunately, this single
attribution tends to explain all yogas in the West. In this study, consistent with Sri
Aurobindos use, Yoga refers to a system of spiritual practice that leads one to unite with
the Divine, Brahman, the Ground of All Being. Several schools of yoga exist in India that
represent a particular emphasis and teaching: Raja, with a focus on mind control, Hatha,
with a focus on breath and body control, Bhakti, with a focus on devotion and love,
Tantra, with a focus on kundalini energy, Karma, with a focus on action and service, and
Jnana, with a focus on knowledge and wisdom (Chaudhuri, 1965, p. 236; Feuerstein,
2001). Buddhism is also considered a system of yoga (Feuerstein, 2001). A number of
other yogas exist if one peruses the topic: Siddhi, Laya, Mantra, Kripalu, to name a few.
All, however, are systems of spiritual practice that lead to union with the Divine.
Its truths are based on the experiences and experiments of an unbroken line of
mystics, occultists, saints and sages who have realized and born witness to them
throughout the ages. The facts of higher Yoga can neither be proved nor
demonstrated. Their appeal is to the intuition and not to the intellect. (Taimni,
1961, p. vii)

Meditation is both a tool and practice that quiets the mind to the point of
accessing higher states of consciousness. The initial purpose of yogic mediation is to
intercept the flux of ordinary mental activity (vritti) (Feuerstein, 2001, p. 251).
Meditation acts as a doorway to advanced nonordinary states of consciousness. Daniel
Goleman (1972a, Note: First names or titles are used with last names in this study in
5
accordance with organic inquirys protocol) characterized these states as meditation-
specific states of consciousness, or MSC (Goleman, 1972a, p. 2). Prolonged use of
selective attention, effort, and pure awareness, and the development of these as
attentional skills, are essential for activation of the changes along the path of meditation
(Brown, 1986, p. 264). The goal of meditation is to change ones consciousness
(Goleman, 1978-79, 1988). The two main types are concentration and insight.
Concentration meditation involves the individual focusing on a specific object of
meditation until one sees only the object and merges with it. Insight meditation has the
individual become the observer of thoughts until no thought arises. Hindu and Buddhist
yogas use one, both, or variations of both types of meditation.
Integral Yoga, also known as Purna Yoga, is a synthesis of several major yogas
and was created by Sri Aurobindo. For the purposes of this chapter this brief summary
will suffice:
1. Sri Aurobindo viewed psychology to be the scientific study of consciousness.
His yoga focused on the transformation of consciousness as a step forward in
the evolution of human consciousness.
2. The end point of ordinary human consciousness is higher mind in Integral
Yogawhere individual consciousness becomes an observer of mind. Beyond
higher mind is a superconscient realm, with three planes of consciousness:
illumined mind, intuition mind, and overmind, progressing to the highest plane
of human consciousness, supermind (or the supramental). Supermind is the
starting point of the transcendental realm of consciousness and the dwelling
place of the Divine.
6
3. Outer being is where the physical, mind, and vital aspects of the individual in
waking consciousness operate. Ego operates here. Inner being consists of the
subliminal parts of the individual, as well as ones soul. Sri Aurobindo used
the term psychic being to describe the soul. Central being contains the psychic
being as well as the individuals spirit, which is considered to be in direct
connection to the Divine. These concepts will be explored in greater detail in
the next chapter.
Meditation Research
Many studies on meditation occurred in the latter half of the 20
th
century,
particularly the 1960s and 1970s. Much of the literature on meditation research focused
on physical and behavioral changes, as well as the changes in life experiences and
emotions. Few investigations explored the actual experience of meditative states of
consciousness.
Many of the early studies on meditation done in the West compared short-term
meditators to non-meditators. If long-term meditators were studied, the length of
experience in a discipline usually ranged from 6 months up to 3-5 years. Studies of very
long-term meditators, those with 5 to 10 years of experience, were scarce (Brown &
Engler, 1986a; 1986b; Goleman, 1972a; 1972b; 1978-79; 1988; Murphy & Donovan,
1988; Murphy, Donovan, & Taylor, 1997). Some researchers studied teachers, monks, or
gurus in Asia. However, the focus of the studies revolved on what these advanced
practitioners could do rather than what they experienced in advanced states of
consciousness (see Murphy & Donovan, 1988; Murphy et al., 1997, for an excellent
synthesis of meditation research). Daniel Golemans work (1972a; 1972b; 1978-79;
7
1988), as well as Daniel Browns (1986) provide very detailed and excellent descriptions
of stages of higher consciousness, primarily in Buddhism with comparisons to Hindu and
Western mystical practices. A brief discussion of pertinent meditation research in the
West may be helpful in order to understand the importance of this study.
Certain studies stand out because the participants were meditators considered
advanced by the greater length of practice in years than a majority of studies or were
assessed by master meditators and teachers by the levels of consciousness they achieved.
Many of the meditators practiced Buddhist meditation techniques. A few of these studies
focused on Hindu meditators.
Lawrence R. Edwards (1987), in his study of the long-term effects of practitioners
of Siddha Yoga, interviewed participants with 10 or more years of yoga practice. He used
case study and ethnographic tandem interviews to collect data from 13 participants on the
physical and psychological effects of long-term yoga practice, with his findings
concurring with the outcomes of yoga practice found in the sacred texts and literature. Dr.
Edwards study is an example of one that focused on the outcomes of long-term
meditative experience. This current study focuses on the experience of higher realms of
consciousness, a different perspective altogether.
Daniel Brown and Jack Engler (1986a; 1986b) conducted one of the most
comprehensive studies on advanced stages of meditation. Data were collected from three
independent studies of meditators at different levels of abilities and integrated into one
larger study. The group (n = 31) in the first study consisted of Western meditators who
completed a 3-months Theravada Buddhist meditation retreat. The researchers compared
the effects of expectations on meditation. Data collected consisted of: (a) Rorschach tests;
8
(b) a quantitative questionnaire they developed called A Profile of Meditative
Experience (POME); and (c) a Social Desirability Scale (developed by Crowne &
Marlow in 1960). Rorschachs were given pre- and post-retreat. The group (n = 8) in the
second study were advanced meditators identified by teachers at the same retreat center.
The group (n = 10) in the third study were teachers and master teachers identified as
having traits corresponding to advanced stages of Theravadin Buddhist enlightenment; all
lived in South Asia. Data collection varied slightly with this group: case studies were
collected, translations made for the POME and semistructured interviews, the Thematic
Apperception Test, or TAT (India version), was given, and no pretest for Rorschach
occurred.
The POME helped researchers to group meditators by their level of experience.
Teachers assessments helped to further subdivide the group into levelsbeginner,
samadhi, and insightcorresponding to the enlightenment stages reached at the time of
data collection. A large degree of variation in concentration and insight meditation
abilities created a larger variation in findings. The beginner level showed little difference
between pre- and post-retreat Rorschachs. The samadhi level showed a seeming
unproductivity and paucity of associative elaborations (Brown & Engler, 1986a, p. 177)
in the Rorschach test. This group exhibited a high incidence of comments on the pure
perceptual features of the inkblot, an unusual finding (p. 179). The insight level,
however, demonstrated an increased productivity and richness of associative
elaborations (p. 180), and an openness to the flow of internal associations and images
(p. 181).
9
Results from the study of advanced meditators demonstrated Rorschach findings
similar to the beginner level initially. However, further analysis elicited the unusual
finding in most of these participants that:
[Indicated] an understanding of the interrelationship of form and energy/space.
The most striking feature of all these Ss Rorschachs is the extent to which they
view their own internal imagery, in response to the shapes on the inkblots, as
merely manifestations or emanations of energy/space. (Brown & Engler, 1986a,
p. 186)

Daniel Brown and Jack Engler (1986a) identified one individual in the third study
who qualified as a master, the highest level identified in all three studies. This master
completely changed the expected perception of the Rorschach test. Whereas most
normal Rorschach subjects unquestioningly accept the physical reality of an inkblot
and then project their imaging onto it, this master sees an inkblot itself as the projection
of the mind (Brown & Engler, 1986a, p. 190). Additionally this master integrated all 10
Rorschach cards into one narrative story. Such a single associative theme is an
extremely rare finding (p. 191). Drs. Brown and Engler believed their findings
accurately portray perceptual changes that occur in the progress of meditation.
From these three studies, Daniel Brown and Jack Engler (1986a) showed that
differences in perception occur with differences in meditation level. A perceptual ennui
occurs early, perhaps relating to shifts in consciousness that make it difficult to re-orient
to a fixed set of three-dimensional instructions. The next shift demonstrates flow and
movement in the perception of visual cues, changing their interpretation. Dissolution of
structure and form allows perception to shift to an orientation of energy and space. And
then, in very advanced states (the third study in South Asia) the individual perceptions
obtained from each of the Rorschach cards fall into an integrative whole picture of a
10
higher order that allows a narrative story to emerge. To summarize, perception is
deconstructed to its source where a metaphoric black hole shifts consciousness through to
enlightenment, transforming it, and a reintegration of perception occurs.
Daniel Goleman (1972a, 1972b) comprehensively described the experience and
levels of Buddhist meditation, particularly regarding the differences between the insight
and concentration paths of meditation. He also compared and contrasted it with the
spiritual traditions of Indian yogas (including Integral Yoga), Tibetan Buddhism, Zen
Buddhism, and the philosophies of Gurdjieff and Krishnamurti (Goleman, 1972b). In his
book, The Meditative Mind (Goleman, 1988), he combined his previous studies and
expanded his comparisons of other meditative systems, including Jewish, Christian, and
Sufi traditions.
Daniel Brown (1986) studied three practices (Tibetan Buddhism, Theravada
Buddhism, and Hindu Yoga) over 12 years, including the reading of each traditions
sacred texts in their original languages (Mahamudra, Visuddhimagga, and Yoga Sutras,
respectively), and identified similarities and differences in the three traditions. He found
that all three are structured in a series of stages along the meditation path that are
consistent across each spiritual tradition.
Each tradition divided the states of practice differently. Howeverit was
possible to discover a clear underlying structure to meditation stages, a structure
highly consistent across the traditions. The sequence of stages is assumed to be
universal, despite the vastly different ways they are conceptualized and described
across traditions. This sequence is believed to represent natural human
development available to anyone who practices. The sequence is assumed to be
invariant. Furthermore, it was also possible to specify the nature of the final
outcome, enlightenment, according to the ways it is similar and different across
traditions. The traditions agree there are three main divisions to the practice:
preliminary exercises, concentration meditations, and insight meditations.
According to the synoptic analysis used in this research, a total of six major stages
of practice were discovered: two preliminary, two concentrative, and two insight
11
stages. Each of these six stages can be subdivided further into three
substages[for a total of] eighteen distinct stages (6 x 3) which unfold in an
invariant sequence. (Brown, 1986, pp. 223-224)

The significant variation between Buddhist and Hindu traditions is that Buddhists
view enlightenment at the highest level as a discontinuity, as unconnected and discreet
flowing pockets. Hindu thought views the final vision as unity, as interconnected:
For the Hindu, the vicissitudes of mental events are all manifestations of the
same stuff. For the Buddhists, each discretely observable event in the unfolding
succession of mental events is momentary. Whereas both traditions agree that
mental events undergo incessant change, the nature of the change can be
experienced differently: mental events unfold in a continuous manner for the
Hindu yogi and in a discontinuous manner for the Buddhist meditator. (Brown,
1986, p. 225)

Daniel Browns (1986) careful analysis disputed the idea that all paths lead to the
same outcome in spiritual development.
According to the careful comparison of the traditions we have to conclude the
following: there is only one path, but it has several outcomes. There are several
kinds of enlightenment, although all free awareness from psychological structure
and alleviate suffering. (Brown, 1986, pp. 266-267)

Roger Walsh (1995), on the other hand, in mapping states of consciousness in
shamanism, Buddhist vipassana (insight) meditation, Patanjalis yoga, and schizophrenia,
concluded:
Claims that shamans and masters of other traditions are equivalent and access
identical states will need to make multiple comparisons between multiple states
on multiple dimensions; something that simply has not been done. These
theoretical arguments point to several reasons why it is difficult to make sweeping
claims for identity between shamanic states and those of other traditions. Of
course it is not to deny that there may be some experiential overlap between
different states inasmuch as they may involve similar processes and aims, such as
attentional training and compassionate service. (p. 40)

Dr. Walsh (1995), in answering the question of whether a common mystical
experience exists, stated that some of the highest states cannot be mapped or
12
ascertained. For instance, it is difficult to differentiate between the eight Buddhist states
(jhanas) of meditative experience because of their subtleties. However, each of these
states possess extremely high degrees of control, calm, and concentration, and almost
total lack of awareness of the environment and ability to communicate (p. 46). But at the
highest levels of consciousness, nirvana of Theravada Buddhist tradition and samadhi of
the yoga tradition of Patanjali, verbalization and intellectual reasoning do not work.
For these experiences, and the realms they putatively reveal, are said to be beyond
space, time, qualities, concepts, and limits of any kind. Hence, these experiences
are said to be ineffable, indescribable, and inconceivable because they are
transempirical, transverbal, and transrational. Here phenomenological
description, mapping, and comparison fail. (Walsh, 1995, p. 48)

Dr. Walsh (1995) explained further that the goal is not to describe but to
experience: The primary and liberating task [therefore], say both Buddhist and yogic
traditions, is not to describe these states and experiences but rather to know them for
oneself through direct, transrational intuition and its resultant wisdom, prajna or jnana
(p. 49). Such is the challenge of this studyhow to convey the experience of these higher
states of consciousness.
Integral Yoga and Meditation
Integral Yoga does not espouse a particular method of meditation. Daniel
Goleman (1972b) explained it in the following way:
The process of spiritual unfolding is as varied as individual differences, and so
Aurobindo (1958) prescribes no uniform, set practice. Thus Integral Yoga can
consist in whatever technique is found to work for one at a given point in
sadhana. Among traditional paths commonly followed by practitioners of
Aurobindos Integral Yoga are Bhakti, karma-yoga and sitting meditation. The
usual combination is the practice of one-pointedness techniques and devotion to
the Mother. The fruits of meditation in MSC [meditative states of consciousness]
are, from Aurobindos point of view, not the final goal but a first stage of
evolution. All samadhis, including the highest jhanas are to be reintegrated with
the activities of life. These jhana states belong to the realm of the
13
OvermindThis is but the starting point of Aurobindos yogaThe
fundamental process is at each higher level of consciousness to bring down its
power and perception into mortal life, making it a constant attribute of the
waking state. (Goleman, 1972b, p. 167)

Summary
The population of individuals who are ready for the next change of consciousness
(Feuerstein, 1987) or the shift to the next higher evolution of humanity (Aurobindo,
1990) is small. Western studies of long-term meditators are not explicit regarding levels,
except for a few (Brown, 1986; Brown & Engler, 1986a, 1986b; Goleman, 1972a, 1972b,
1978-79, 1988). Even fewer focus on the experience in higher planes of consciousness
and its effects rather than simply on the outcomes. Such studies, however, examine the
phenomena of spiritual awakening or transcendence (Massad, 2001; Slanina, 1994;
Waldron, 1998, 2006).
It is not within the scope of this study to compare differences between short-term
and long-term meditators, such as the studies by Drs. Brown and Engler (1986a, 1986b)
and Dr. Shapiro (1992). This study will also not discuss discreet psychobiological
changes attributed to meditation, as a number of studies on meditation have done (see
Murphy & Donovan, 1988; Murphy et al., 1997). This studys focus is what is
experienced in the planes of consciousness beyond what Sri Aurobindo described as
higher mind, the entry into superconscient consciousness. Sri Aurobindo (1990; 1993b)
did not advocate a specific method of meditation discipline, as in other yoga and
Buddhist practices. He simply instructed his students to seek the space of silence and
wait, using whatever method helped them to arrive there. Although Daniel Goleman
(1972b) identified Integral Yoga meditation as one of concentration-focused, he also
stated that Integral Yoga has no particular system of meditation practice.
14
Issues in Meditation Research
Those who have outlined the levels of higher consciousness in Buddhism and
Indian yogas, other than Integral Yoga, tend to compare and contrast the systems with
each other. One cannot, however, subscribe to one system or cultural tradition and expect
it to translate equivocally to another. Daniel Brown (1986), Ken Wilber (2000), Daniel
Goleman (1972b; 1978-79; 1988), Jorge Ferrer (2002) and others made this point.
Meditation can illuminate and open the doors of consciousness beyond ego and
waking consciousness. It can allow for the experience of higher realms of consciousness.
Other work is also required of the individual. It is in this capacity that the other teachings
found in the philosophy of the Eastern spiritual traditions are important (Agha-Kazem-
Shirazi, 1995). It is also what early meditation practitioners in the West, who embraced
meditation for a number of reasons, missed.
Others agree with this assessment. Drs. Brown and Engler (1986b) noted a
difference in outcomes between Eastern and Western mindfulness meditators, especially
beginners; Eastern beginner meditators advance faster than their Western counterparts.
Westerners tend to use meditation as an isolated tool without incorporating the
preliminary psychological, behavioral, and spiritual preparations that occur first in
Eastern systems. As a result, Western meditators slow or arrest their meditative progress
initially by choosing to explore the inner content that emerges in the initial phases of
meditation, engaging in self-exploratory therapy (Brown & Engler, 1986b, p. 195).
Eastern meditators, on the other hand, prepare themselves prior to beginning meditation
practice and therefore have addressed many of the issues that initially occur for
Westerners in the beginning of meditation practice. The psychological changes
15
characteristic of the preliminary practices are the necessary precondition to formal
meditation (p. 196). Dr. Brown (1986) elaborated on the preparatory stages
preliminary ethical and preliminary mind-body trainingthat tend to be ignored by
Western meditation practices (p. 223). Integral Yoga emphasizes the importance of
purifying oneself (outer and inner being) and allowing the soul, the psychic being in
Integral Yoga, to emerge and become the director of ones life instead of the ego,
paralleling the preliminary practices previously discussed.
Allan Combs (2002) also pointed out that simply reading about a state or level of
consciousness that has not been experienced does not guarantee the success of the person
reaching that level. As Ken Wilber put it in a written conversation with Dr. Combs,
It doesnt give the first-person phenomenal knowledge of that higher state. The only
way the person gets that is by developing or directly experiencing that higher state
(Combs, 2002, pp. 298-299). Ken Wilber elaborated further by saying, we are also
asking what it takes to transform an adult human beingsimply getting a description of
the higher state, no matter how perfect, does not permanently change that person unless
they have been subjectively transformed (Combs, 2002, p. 299).
Allan Combs and Ken Wilber (Combs, 2002), in their dialogue, pointed out a
conundrum for this present study. This researcher, having studied several disciplines and
traditions, accessed states of consciousness that do not conform to any particular category
or tradition. Additionally, she has not practiced Integral Yoga, although it resonates
profoundly. The solution may be found in the use of organic inquiry, along with the skill
of the researcher, in transmitting the experiences that are the subject of this study.
16
Other Considerations
Mystic and Transcendent Experiences
Another body of literature addresses the sudden moments of entering advanced
states of consciousness. These moments are often experienced as meeting a divine being,
receiving intuitive knowledge or answers to a question, or being in a place bathed in love
and light. These experiences are instantaneous, unexpected, fleeting, and life altering.
Joan Waldron (2006) noted that explorations of transcendent experiences have their roots
in the study of mysticism (p. 14). The Western literature describes such phenomena as
mystical experiences, citing authors such as William James (1997), Richard Maurice
Bucke (1923), and Evelyn Underhill (1970). A number of terms describe such
experiences: mystic, peak, nirvana, divine, ground of being, source, transcendent,
exceptional human, to name a few. For instance, Dr. Waldron (2006) listed several
descriptors used in the literature for a transcendent experience such as mystical,
transpersonal, exceptional human, and peak. The reader is also invited to peruse her
article (Waldron, 1998) for a thorough review of the literature regarding the definition
and characteristics of such transcendent experiences. Abraham Maslow (1972) described
25 characteristics of peak experience, which correlate with the findings of others. Jorge
Ferrer (2002) called the realm of these experiences the Ocean of Emancipation (p.
145).
Language is a significant limitation in consciousness research. L. E. Thomas and
Pamela Cooper (1980) attempted to codify the wording or label of these types of
experiences by having 305 people (ages 17 and above) answer the question, Have you
ever had the feeling of being close to a powerful spiritual force that seemed to lift you
17
outside of yourself? One third of the respondents were found to have had some type of
spiritual experience but only 1% of the sample had, based on their descriptions, a
mystical experience (i.e., ineffability, feeling a sense of cosmic unity, noesis). Drs.
Thomas and Cooper concluded that a large number of people have had a spiritual
experience of some type and that:
Qualitative methods will be needed to measure these experiences, since
individuals are able to interpret the structured question in so many different ways.
Stated another way, individuals differ so widely in the types of experiences that
they have had that structured questions may be of limited usefulness in studying
the phenomena. (p. 83)

U. A. Asrani (1972) noted that once individuals experience these realms they
want to find a way to share them with others.
Almost every mystic who has experienced the depths of peace and joy
encountered in Samadhi has desired that other human beings should similarly
attain: the result has been the large literature of mysticism which has sought in
various ways to describe the indescribable and ineffable. (p. 237)

Transcendent experiences are spontaneous and often not actively sought except by
mystics and meditators within spiritual traditions. The training and philosophy of the
tradition also determines the interpretation of the experience (Brown, 1986; Goleman,
1988). Once experienced, many seek earnestly to repeat them. Yoga practitioners and
meditators may have similar experiences when first encountering a new state of
consciousness. Training, will, and intent assist them in accessing new levels, reaching
them often enough that they are eventually able to remain in it, changing a state
experience into a trait experience. A state experience of nonordinary consciousness is
temporary; the individual subjectively enters and leaves the state. A trait experience
occurs when the qualities of a nonordinary state integrate with waking consciousness
(Goleman, 1974; Goleman, 1978-79; Wilber, 2000).
18
In order for higher development to occur, those temporary states must become
permanent traits. Higher development involves, in part, the conversion of altered
states into permanent realizations. In other words, in the upper reaches of
evolution, the transpersonal potentials that were only available in temporary states
of consciousness are increasingly converted into enduring structures of
consciousness (states into traits). This is where meditative states become
increasingly important. (Wilber, 2000, p. 15)

Stabilization of experiences in nonordinary realms, and its integration into waking
consciousness, is considered a hallmark of genuine transpersonal development (Ferrer,
2002, p. 37). It is a significant goal in Integral Yoga. It also has implications for the
evolution of consciousness.
Joan Waldron (1998) explained that transcendent experiences and mystic
experiences described in the literature possess the qualities of suddenness and
unexpectedness. She examined the transcendent experiences (sudden onset variety) of six
individuals that carried a significant quality of instant knowing (noesis) and its long-term
impact on the percipients lives (Waldron, 2006). Using Arthur Deikmans (1980) model
of mystical experience, Joan Waldrons participants fit into the category of untrained-
sensate. The other two categories in Arthur Deikmans model are trained-sensate and
trained-transcendent, experiences more often found in mystics and advanced meditators,
respectively.
Dr. Waldrons (1998) research is very similar to the intent and purpose of this
proposed study. Using the multiple case study method and in-depth interviews, she
compiled descriptions of transcendent experiences. Her study focused on the noetic
quality of these experiences and their lifelong impact on the percipients. This study
differed from Dr. Waldrons in a few ways: (a) the experiences sought are not necessarily
spontaneous and occur only once. The participants in the current study fall into the
19
trained-transcendent category of Arthur Deikmans (1980) model; (b) the participants in
the current study, as practitioners, have a background of several years of meditative
experience. With the inclusion of intent and will, they constitute very important qualities
necessary for success in Integral Yoga according to Sri Aurobindo, and do not have the
out-of-the-blue quality found in Dr. Waldrons case studies; (c) Dr. Waldron focused
on the noetic quality and life impact of the transcendent experiences, whereas this study
does not limit the focus to any particular qualities; and (d) organic inquiry will produce a
different set of results than the case study method. Dr. Waldron (1998) discovered that, as
a result of her study, the experience of working with her participants carried an aspect of
sacredness, the sense of being on holy ground.This truly is sacred territory (Waldron,
1998, p. 132). Using organic inquiry, this study started with that premise.
Sunny Massad (2001) examined eight individuals regarding sustained
transcendent experiences; four were interviews and four were descriptions found in
autobiographies of people who had sustained transcendent experiences. The descriptions
from the four interviewees displayed two outstanding features: 1. The descriptions were
scant in detail of the experience outside of the feelings of bliss, joy, and peace; and 2.
Reading them did not induce any transformation in the reader (current researcher). Other
findings were that one cannot prepare for a sustained transcendent experience and that
aspiring or seeking a sustained transcendent experience will not produce it. Dr. Massad
did not identify specific spiritual practices or whether transcendent experiences occurred
during or outside of spiritual practices initially.
In conclusion, mystic and transcendent experiences are spontaneous, life-
changing, transformative events and the individual desires to repeat them. However, these
20
experiences differ from those discussed in this study as well as other meditation studies,
in that the individual is not usually trained to seek or is not aspiring to have them. These
events are similar in that they are life-changing transformative events and the individual
desires to repeat them.
Integral Yoga and Experiential Accounts
Descriptions of experiences by Integral Yoga students in planes of
superconsciousness can be found indirectly from reading Sri Aurobindos responses to
their letters (Aurobindo, 1970a, 1970b). Other sources contain descriptions of Sri
Aurobindos personal experiences (Nirodbaran, 1973; Purani, n.d.; Roy, 1984; Satprem,
1970). Satprems (1970) biography of Sri Aurobindo provides descriptions of the
superconscient realms Sri Aurobindo experienced (i.e., illumined, intuition, overmind).
From a record of Sri Aurobindos evening talks (Purani, n.d.), the reader will find
descriptions of his superconscient experiences scattered throughout. These sources will
be covered in later chapters as they might bias the researchers experience with the
participants of this study, perhaps influencing the reader as well.
Transpersonal Theory and Participatory Knowing
Jorge Ferrer (2002) proposed a new idea of transpersonal and consciousness-
expanding experiences beyond the solitary, intrasubjective experience that includes the
realms of intersubjective, communal, and nature as part of the experience. In a reversal of
the perennial philosophy, he believed that transpersonal events, in any context, trigger
transpersonal experiences, not just the intrasubjective pursuit of them.
Participatory knowing refers to a multidimensional access to reality that includes
not only the intellectual knowing of the mind, but also the emotional and
empathic knowing of the heart, the sensual and somatic knowing of the body, the
21
visionary and intuitive knowing of the soul, as well as any other way of knowing
available to human beings. (p. 121)

Jorge Ferrer (2002) suggested in his participatory transpersonal model that: (a)
The final point of a mystical or transcendent journey is multivariant, culturally dependent
with regard to description, and nonsuperior hierarchically and contextually to any other
tradition or practice; and (b) it can occur in any transpersonal event that generates an
experience. This allows for a multiplicity of processes, events, and experiences that
produce transcendent moments and opportunities.
Dr. Ferrer (2002) pointed out, as did Daniel Brown (1986), that Western
transpersonal psychologys emphasis on the experiential process of meditation (as the
West embraced it) did not include the ethical and philosophical preparation necessary
prior to beginning meditation, steps considered vitally important to the process and
outcome in Eastern spiritual traditions. Such premature and incomplete training results
only in transient, short-lived peak experiences rather than long-term transformations
(Ferrer, 2002, p. 27). Integral Yoga enhances stabilization and consciousness
transformation in the integral preparation and purification of the outer and inner being,
the conscious-unconscious-subconscious-subliminal focus, and the emphasis on will,
intent, aspiration, and surrender.
This study sought practitioners who, while possibly having peak, mystical, or
transcendent types of experiences, potentially operate in the plateau level of higher
consciousnessusing Abraham Maslows vernacular (Krippner, 1972; Maslow, 1969,
1972)or, using another term, possess characteristics of trait experience.
An important point Jorge Ferrer (2002), Ken Wilber (2000), Daniel Brown (1986)
and others made is that it is not sufficient to have a spiritual experience or a string of
22
spiritual experiences, but these experiences must be integrated into ones life, ones
values and ethics, in the context of the community and world of matter so that individual
transformation can occur. Integral Yoga incorporates this belief into its practice.
A basic issue here is that, as it has often been stressed in the religious literature,
the goal of the spiritual quest is not to have spiritual experiences, but to stabilize
spiritual consciousness, live a spiritual life, and transform the world accordingly.
(Ferrer, 2002, p. 37)

Ken Wilber (2000) and Jorge Ferrer (2002) do not appear to address, however, the
effect of the transformed individual on others. Integral Yoga also seeks to transform the
individual from a human being to a spiritual being living in the world of matter. The
human energy fields of people are profoundly interconnected so that a change in one
individual affects other individuals (Pierrakos, 1975; Rogers, 1970; Rogers, 1990). The
idea of human energy fields is one perspective on how the evolution of consciousness can
occurthat transformation of one person can affect others and potentiates their
transformation.
Subtle Energy and Human Energy Fields
One of the challenges of this study, using the research method of organic inquiry,
lies in the question of whether subjective narrative descriptions of higher realms of
consciousness can transform the participants, the researcher, and the reader. If thoughts
are energy, and ontologically everything is vibration and energy, then is it possible that
the interaction of hearing or reading information can change an individual? Research on
subtle energy bolsters the notion that human beings possess an energy field, which
interacts with other energy fields surrounding it.
Language, as mentioned earlier, is a significant limitation on the ability to convey
experiences in higher planes of consciousness. How an individuals shift in consciousness
23
may affect others is an important question with regard to the evolution of human
consciousness. Perhaps, then, an alternative viewpoint regarding transmission and
communication, using energy fields, is worthy of consideration.
Eastern traditions accept the notion of subtle energies in their cosmologies and
ontologies. Subtle energies explain the actions of the universe with human beings. They
coexist with matter and consciousness. Subtle energies are more nebulous to identify
within a scientific framework.
[Subtle energies are] believed to move throughout the so-called etheric (or
subtle) energy body and thus . . . [are]difficult to measure using conventional
instrumentation. . . . In addition, it is traditionally accepted that expansions of
consciousness often are related to changes in subtle energies that cannot be
quantified. These latter energies, which are said to be associated with
interactions and with transcendence, may not, in fact, actually be involved with
known physical fields. (International Society for the Study of Subtle Energies and
Energy Medicine [ISSSEEM], 2003, Definitions)

Ken Wilber (2003) correlated the descriptions of subtle energies in the spiritual
traditions of India (specifically Vedanta and Vajrayana), which are premodern, with the
knowledge of science, which is postmodern, and integrated both within his AQAL model
(all quadrants, all levels) of consciousness. He connected the states of consciousness to
energy realms or bodies, called sarira (Deutsch & Dalvi, 2004), to sheaths or levels of
consciousness, called koshas (Deutsch & Dalvi, 2004), and to the chakras, the subtle
energy centers associated with the human body (Wilber, 2003). His levels of
consciousness reflect Sri Aurobindos hierarchy and terminology.
Western tradition addresses subtle energies from the scientific paradigm. All
matter vibrates. Vibrations and subatomically charged particles create energy and
electromagnetic fields in matter. Electrons and protons are electrically charged particles
24
in atoms. Atoms exist in all space and matter in the universe (Pain, 1993). Electrically
charged particles, therefore, fill the universe.
The concept of fields was introduced by physicist Michael Faraday as an
intuitive way of looking at the electrical interaction between charges (Calle, 2001, p.
254). A field has been defined as a force which can cause action at a distance (Jones &
Chez, 2004, p. 172), an area of space that surrounds the object that creates it (Schwartz &
Russek, 1997), and a continuous condition of space (Karagulla & Kunz, 1989, p. 27).
A magnetic field is created wherever charged particles exist. Electromagnetic
waves are produced when the velocity of an electrical direction changes (Pain, 1993, p.
187). The result is an electromagnetic field. The Academic Press Dictionary of Science
and Technology (Morris, 1992) defines an electromagnetic field as an oscillating electric
field and its associated magnetic field acting at right angles to each other and at right
angles to their direction (Morris, 1992, p. 725). All matter contains electromagnetic
characteristics (Becker & Selden, 1985).
The human body generates an electromagnetic field from an amalgam of
biochemical and biomechanical processes (V. V. Hunt, 1996; Oschman, 2002). The
electromagnetic field is generated at the atomic and cellular levels of the body and
emanates out to surround the entire physical body. The energy field is continuous and a
reservoir for energy exchange within and without it (V. V. Hunt, 1996). As a bioelectro-
magnetic field, or bioenergy field, the human body is capable of transferring energy and
information from one system to another (Jonas & Chez, 2004, p. 172).
The terms used for the energies operating in the human field have different names
in different cultures. They include: subtle energies, life force energy, chi or qi, ki, odic
25
force, prana, lan vital or vital fluid, bioelectromagnetic fields, endogenous fields,
morphogenic fields, and orgone (Collinge, 1998; Gerber, 2001; Oschman, 2002). In
parapsychology, the human energy field is a possible mechanism for the evidence of
clairvoyance, remote viewing, telekinesis, psychokinesis, and perhaps precognition (Tart,
1975).
The National Institute of Health (NIH) created the term biofield to express the
living biologic fields of organisms and gave the term a National Library of Medicine
(NLM) medical subject heading in 1994. Biofields are proposed to be unscientifically
proven energy fields that surround and interpenetrate the physical body (Miles & True,
2003; National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine[NCCAM], 2007).
[A biofield is] the endogenous, complex dynamic electromagnetic (EM) field
resulting from the superposition of component EM fields of the organism that is
proposed to be involved in self-organization and bioregulation of the organism.
The components of the biofield are the EM fields contributed by each individual
oscillator or electrically charged, moving particle, or ensemble of moving
particles.The resulting biofield may be conceived of as a very dynamic standing
wave. (Rubik, 2002, p. 709)

The human energy field extends out from the physical body five to six inches.
Its an emanation, a luminous radiation, a field of light or energy that extends beyond
the body to interact with our external environment (Bruyere, 1994, p. 18).
The human energy field is considered a part of the Universal Energy Field that
makes up the known universe. Barbara Brennan (1988), physicist, psychotherapist, and
healer, described the human energy field as the manifestation of universal energy that is
intimately involved with human life (p. 4) and interconnected to other energy fields.
The UEF [universal energy field] permeates all space, animate and inanimate objects,
and connects all objects to each other (p. 40).
26
According to Dr. Karagulla and Dora Kunz (1989), all living systems are self-
organizing and are constantly exchanging energy with other systems and the
environment. This energy exchange is a constant and so indispensable for all living
organisms that it can be regarded as a universal field effect (p. 12). And, although the
concept of fields is scientifically demonstrated and understandable in the fields of
electricity, magnetism, and atomic nuclear activities, when we posit a universal life or
vital fieldthis is much more difficult to demonstrate in a tangible way, for there are as
yet no scientific instruments capable of detecting the presence of such a field (Karagulla
& Kunz, 1989, p. 13).
Nursing theorist Martha Rogers (1970, 1990) introduced the concept of human
energy field in her theory of nursing. Nursing, according to Dr. Rogers, is the study of
human and environmental fields: people and their world (Rogers, 1990, p. 6). She
believed that an energy field was a fundamental unit of the living and non-living. Field
is a unifying concept. Energy signifies the dynamic nature of the field; a field is in
continuous motion and is infinite (p. 7). Human energy fields are constantly changing
their wave frequency from lower to higher frequency patterns through their interactions
with other fields, both human and environmental (p. 8).
In conclusion, energy, then, might be an appropriate concept, perhaps vehicle, that
describes both the experience and end point of higher planes of consciousness. Energy
may also be a vehicle that effects changes, such as transformation, in other human beings.
People affect each others energy field since the field constantly surrounds us and
contacts the field of the neighboring person or groups of people (Pierrakos, 1975, p.
166).
27
Conclusion
A majority of past studies of advanced meditators did not seek the
phenomenological aspects of being in higher planes of consciousness. Most focused on
quantitative data, such as physiological changes, or qualitative data, such as behavior and
personality changes. Studies of long-term meditators, specifically 5-10 years, were
uncommon. A majority of participants in studies on advanced meditators were practicing
Buddhist. In the studies using Hindu participants, objectives were primarily to evaluate
their extraordinary powers. This study contributes to consciousness, spirituality, and
transpersonal psychology by evaluating, as well as seeking to understand, the experience
of being in higher planes of consciousness.
Eastern systems have explored and studied realms of consciousness for centuries.
Their languages incorporate the variety and subtleness of description of experiences in
these realms.
Asian cultures have highly developed vocabularies for describing and delimiting
distinct degrees, levels, and types of meditation-specific altered states which our
own language only vaguely and clumsily can begin to approximate. One system
enumerates eight distinct levels of jhana, while the English concentration,
absorption, and trancein combination our nearest approximationmiss the
mark; the eighteen states of awareness leading to nirvanahave no English
equivalents whatsoever. (Goleman, 1974, p. 78)

This study contributes to the growing lexicon of descriptions in the English language for
higher planes of consciousness. It addressed such experiences within the framework of
Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga, a type of yoga rarely explored in Western research on
advanced practitioners. Using the transpersonal research method of organic inquiry adds
a different focus to the study because of its use of alternative sources of knowledge, its
28
sacred approach to a topic and the participants, and its goal of transforming the
researcher, participants, and readers.
29
CHAPTER 2: REVIEW OF THE LITERATURE
The Psychology of Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga
If, as Sri Aurobindo said, psychology is the study of consciousnessearly
pioneers in transpersonal psychology such as Charles Tart, Stanislav Grof, Ralph
Metzner, and others currently in transpersonal psychology would probably concur with
this definitionthen Sri Aurobindo has provided the field of transpersonal psychology
with another roadmap of consciousness to levels beyond the ordinary waking state.
Transpersonal psychology started the trek in the West, metaphorically, by identifying
realms of consciousness beyond the waking state; realms that exist in the spiritual levels
of consciousness. Sri Aurobindo illuminated the next steps on the ladder to reach ultimate
consciousnessthe Divine, God, Brahman, nirvana, Universal Consciousness, the All, or
sachchidananda.
Integral Yoga is accepted, even admired, and included in many discussions on
transpersonal psychology, consciousness, and transformation (Chaudhuri, 1992; Combs,
1995, 2002; Ferrer, 2002; Lithman, 2003; Metzner, 1986; Miovic, 2004a, 2004b; Wilber,
1999; 2000, to name a few). Michael Miovic (2004b) gave a very detailed description of
the psychologists and psychiatrists influenced by Sri Aurobindo.
This chapter reflects the authors interpretation and attempt to understand the
psychology of Integral Yoga from the extensive writings of Sri Aurobindo, his students
and friends, and within the context of several years of the authors exploration into
spiritual, transpersonal, parapsychological, occult, and esoteric literature.
For the purposes of this study, Integral Yoga psychology will be an additional
term used for Sri Aurobindos system. Integral Yoga psychology makes a clear
30
distinction between the psychology of Sri Aurobindos system and integral psychology
used by others such as Ken Wilber (2000). Integral Yoga also emphasizes both the
system of connecting to the DivineYogawith the science of consciousness, which is
Sri Aurobindos definition of psychology. Michael Miovic (2004b) also used Integral
Yoga psychology to describe Sri Aurobindos yoga.
If one were to explain the essence of Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga in one
paragraph, it would be the following: Integral Yoga, as a yoga, aims to move the human
being to merge with and manifest the Divine, or Source of all creation, on earth. It
appears to go beyond other traditional systems of yoga, in which union with the Divine is
the final goal, the last step on the path, in that it brings this union down to earthly
existence for service to humanity. In its very basic, stripped-down form, accessing the
Divine involves cultivating a silence within, ascension of ones consciousness that
focuses on the Divine, and then waiting for the Divine to descend. Once descended, an
integral transformation occurs that allows for the Divine to manifest in matter. Integral
Yoga brings the union of the human being and the Divine down into the physical realm,
or nature, in order to change humanity on the earth plane. Nature is Sri Aurobindos
term for terrestial life, the outer or executive side of the Conscious Force which forms
and moves the worlds (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 388). Integral Yoga uses the mind and
consciousness to effect change in all aspects of the human being, integrating the union
with the Divine into the entire body-mind-spirit dimensions of the individual. Thus,
according to Sri Aurobindo, evolution occurs by transforming human beings living on
earth to spiritual beings inhabiting it.
31
Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga psychology is integral because its goal is a
dynamic transformation of consciousness that allows the highest spiritual consciousness
to permeate all layers, all planes, and all aspects of the individual down to levels of which
waking consciousness is unawarethe subconscient and inconscient, which will be
defined later in this chapter (see Dalal, 2001, p. 394). Divine consciousness, then,
replaces all consciousness and directs the terrestrial existence of the individual in the
world of matter. A Yoga of integral perfection regards man as a divine spiritual being
involved in mind, life and body; it aims therefore at a liberation and a perfection of his
divine nature (Aurobindo, 1996, p. 594).
Sri Aurobindo was prolific in his writings and his teachings have been translated,
interpreted, and explained by numerous students and scholars as well (Aurobindo, 1953,
1968, 1970a, 1970b, 1990, 1993a, 1993b, 1996; Aurobindo & The Mother, 1991;
Chaudhuri, 1967; Chaudhuri & Spiegelberg, 1960; Dalal, 1992, 1995, 2001; Miovic,
2004b; Navajata, 1972; Nirodbaran, 1973; Pandit, 1992; Sastry, 1948; Satprem, 1970;
Sen, 1986; Vrinte, 2002). Friends and students of Sri Aurobindo, such as A. S. Dalal,
Haridas Chaudhuri, Joseph Vrinte, and Indra Sen organized Sri Aurobindos writing by
topics such as psychic being, inner being, triple transformation, evolution, and ego. The
publishers of Sri Aurobindos letters (I, III, IV) arranged his writings in a similar fashion.
This chapter is organized to best assist in understanding the paradoxical simplicity
and complexity of Integral Yoga, its psychology, and its potential contribution to
transpersonal psychology. A biographical sketch of Sri Aurobindo starts the discussion,
followed by a section defining a few basic terms. A general overview of Integral Yoga
and Integral Yoga psychology provides a larger picture first before delving into more
32
detailed explanations. Integral Yoga psychology can be viewed or understood from
different orientations and this chapter explains it as related to: personality, consciousness,
and transformation. The final section will include a discussion of Integral Yoga
psychology and other topics such as spiritual traditions, Ken Wilbers (2000) Integral
psychology and its kinship with transpersonal psychology. The chapter ends with a
conclusion regarding the implications of Integral Yoga and its psychology for the future.
Sri Aurobindo: A Brief History
Sri Aurobindo was born Aurobindo Ghose on August 15, 1872 in Calcutta to a
physician and English-educated father who embraced Anglican-European culture.
Aurobindos maternal grandfather, on the other hand, supported Indian independence
from British rule. Aurobindo, along with his two elder brothers, was educated at schools
in England, beginning at the age of 7. He finished his education at Cambridge, and
returned to India at the age of 20. He became active in the Indian independence
movement prior to leaving London. His activities toward this goal accelerated upon his
return to Indian soil. These nationalistic activities, including his affiliation with extremist
organizations and his published writings, resulted in his imprisonment in 1908 and
subsequent trial a year later. He was acquitted in 1909 (Navajata, 1972).
Sri Aurobindo began practicing yoga in 1904. After the trial and release from
prison in 1909, he continued working for Indian independence from British rule by
writing and publishing articles. However, his spiritual progress during his imprisonment
advanced to the point where the destiny of humanity became more important than the
destiny of India (Satprem, 1970). Eventually this destiny, through his practice of Integral
Yoga, became his mission for the rest of his life. Sri Aurobindo moved to Pondicherry in
33
1910, and began to work on establishing his ashram, or spiritual community. He met
Frenchwoman Mira Alfassa Richard in 1914 and she eventually, as The Mother, became
his lifelong colleague. Sri Aurobindo went into seclusion in 1926, communicating to his
followers only through writing, where he remained until his physical transition to spirit
on December 5, 1950 (Aurobindo, 1993b; Navajata, 1972; Satprem, 1970).
Sri Aurobindo emphasized that experience, not intellect, brought wisdomthe
same way the sages of Indian philosophy and spiritual tradition brought forth their
profound knowledge (Aurobindo, 1993b; Satprem, 1970). Even before he immersed
himself in Integral Yoga, profound transformative spiritual experiences occurred in his
life. When he set foot on Indian soil after his years in England, Sri Aurobindo said he had
a deeply spiritual experience where he realized the importance of Indias spiritual legacy
to the world. During the year he spent in prison, Sri Aurobindo received a great deal of
information through his meditation on Integral Yoga and his purpose. After reaching the
overmind level of consciousness (the highest level of human consciousness in Integral
Yoga) in 1926, he spent much of his time in the other realms in order to effect change
in the world (Navajata, 1972; Satprem, 1970).
Sri Aurobindo felt a profound connection to India and Indias responsibility to
share its spiritual knowledge with the rest of the world. India, in Sri Aurobindo's view,
had failed in its potential to change and advance the evolution of human consciousness. It
separated spiritual life from the material world; the schools of yoga in India perpetuated
this by maintaining the separation. By keeping day-to-day consciousness and spiritual
consciousness separate, India prevented the connection that leads to transformation of
consciousness and the advance of human evolution.
34
Sri Aurobindo came upon the earth to teach this truth to man. He taught that man
is a transitional being living in a mental consciousness but with the possibility of
acquiring a new consciousness, the truth-consciousness, and capable of living a
life perfectly harmonious, good and beautiful, happy and fully conscious. Sri
Aurobindo gave all his time to establish in himself this consciousness he called
supramental and to help those gathered around him to realize it. The aim of his
yoga is an inner self-development, by which each one who follows it can in time
discover the one self in all and evolve a higher consciousness than the mental
spiritual and supramental consciousness which will transform and divinise human
nature. (Navajata, 1972, p. 34)

Definition of Terms
Sri Aurobindo devised his own set of terms to describe what many mystics have
found difficult to articulatethe ineffable experience of seeking and finding the Divine
realm. Terminology specific to Integral Yoga and its psychology thus becomes important
to any discussion on this topic. Some books include a glossary (Aurobindo, 1993b; Dalal,
2001), and there is even a dictionary of terms used by Sri Aurobindo (Pandit, 1992).
Psychology, as defined by Sri Aurobindo, is the study of consciousness or the
science of consciousness (Aurobindo, 1993b; Dalal, 2001; Pandit, 1992). In the West,
psychology is a field of science that studies the mental aspects of human beings. With
various movements emphasizing a particular orientation (e. g., behavioral, cognitive,
psychoanalytic, developmental, humanistic, and transpersonal). Sri Aurobindo, educated
in England, believed that yoga was a psychological process. He interpreted Vedantic
philosophy, blending East and West, and elevated the spiritual traditions of the Vedas.
Integral Yoga integrated into one philosophy the nondualistic concept of being in the East
with the evolutionary perspective of Western thought (Chaudhuri, 1967, p. 21).
Sri Aurobindos definition of psychology focuses on consciousness, which
meshes well with Western transpersonal psychology. It contrasts with Western
mainstream psychology, which focuses on the study of the mind and
35
behavior[embracing] all aspects of the human experience (American Psychological
Association [APA] Online, 2006).
Sages understood the interrelated connection of psychology to the mystery of the
universe since the Vedic and Upanishadic periods in Indian history (roughly 3000-1500
BCE). The ancient sages of India were convinced that search for the supreme truth or for
the mystery of the universe must assume the form of search for ones own true self
(Chaudhuri, 1992, p. 234).
Consciousness is difficult to define because it has a variety of meanings
depending on its context (Baruss, 1986-87; Block, n.d.; Farthing, 1992; H. T. Hunt,
1995). In Western mainstream psychology, consciousness usually refers to the mental
level of the human mind and tends to be viewed simply as self-awareness of internal and
external environments (American Psychological Association [APA] Online, 2007,
consciousness). Sri Aurobindo, however, defined consciousness as the faculty of being
aware of anything through identification (Pandit, 1992, p. 35) and as a force throughout
the universe that is found in all the dimensions of the human being. Consciousness is the
foundation, the basis, the fundamental unit of existence, not just of human life
(Aurobindo, 1993b; Dalal, 2001). Consciousness isthe energy, the motion, the
movementthat creates the universe and all that is in it (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 45).
Consciousness exists on many levels and dimensions: physical, environmental, inner,
outer, spiritual, and higher. It also exists as stateswaking, dreaming, sleeping, altered
(Pandit, 1992, pp. 35-41). Consciousness is the tool the individual uses to traverse the
many levels or realms to the Divine and then back to Nature (physical matter). It is the
partner of the soul by which the transformation of human being to spiritual being occurs.
36
Consciousness is multidimensional, not bound by time and space. It is an awareness of all
that is, but it is usually limited in scope among all but the most advanced spiritual adepts.
Yoga in Sri Aurobindos writings is primarily the process of aspiring to and
achieving a connection to the Divine. The common initial purpose of all Yoga is the
liberation of the soul of man from its present natural ignorance and limitation, its release
into spiritual being, its union with the highest self and Divinity (Aurobindo, 1996, p.
587). Yoga might almost be termed the consummate practice of a perfect psychological
knowledge (Aurobindo, 1996, p. 496).
A number of yoga systems originated in India and contain the same principles in
their practice: purification and concentration, which lead to liberation (Aurobindo, 1996).
The aim of all systems of yoga or spiritual growth is to bring about conscious evolution
towards a principle above Mind (Dalal, 2001, p. 395). Integral Yoga, however, differs
from other yogas. Haridas Chaudhuri (1965) believed Integral Yoga to be the synthesis of
the positive aspects of traditional yoga as well as the correctionthe completionof
gaps, missing elements, or drawbacks to traditional yoga.
In an ordinary Yoga one main power of being or one group if its powers is made
the means, vehicle, path. In a synthetic Yoga [synthesized as in integral] all
powers will be combined and included in the transmuting instrumentation.
(Aurobindo, 1996, p. 583)

Science is the empirical study of how our universe works. Sri Aurobindo would
probably agree with the following definition:
1. The systematic observation of natural events and conditions in order to
discover facts about them and to formulate laws and principles based on these
facts. 2. the organized body of knowledge that is derived from such observations
and that can be verified or tested by further investigation. 3. any specific branch
of this general body of knowledge. (Morris, 1992, p. 1926)

37
Observation and experience were important to the sages of India in developing
their spiritual philosophy. It is this aspect, implying the study of something that this
researcher believes is meant by the use of science in Integral Yoga psychology. If science
is the observation and study of phenomena, then practices such as Integral Yoga can
accurately be seen as a psychologya scientific study of consciousness. As a science of
consciousness (psychology) concerned with the goal of merging or re-merging with the
Divine (Yoga), and in the tradition of the sages of the Vedas, the experience of the
journey becomes the qualitative data contributing a definitive pool of knowledge.
Sri Aurobindo calls the Divine, the source of all creation, the Absolute, or
Absolute Reality the origin and support and secret Reality of all things.[It] is
indefinable and ineffable by mental thought and mental language (Aurobindo, 1990, p.
686).
Soul is the spark of the Divine that descends from spirit into nature. It is the
vehicle that is used to move the individual from one physical existence to another. The
soul is the psychic being, hidden but present in all aspects of an individual, awaiting the
urge that will bring it forward to replace the ego as the driving force of an individuals
earthly existence (Aurobindo, 1993b; Dalal, 2001; Pandit, 1992).
Mind is the physical manifestation of thought in its cognitive and intellectual
activities. It is a vehicle of consciousness that can be finely tuned. There are three
components of mind in the human being: (a) mental mind, or mind proper, consisting of
three subpartsintellectual, dynamic, and externalizing; (b) vital mind; and (c) physical
mind (Aurobindo, 1993b, pp. 387-388). Mind is only a preparatory form of
38
consciousness. Mind is an instrument of analysis and synthesis, but not of essential
knowledge (Aurobindo, 1990, p. 137).
The utmost mission of Mind is to train our obscure consciousness which has
emerged out of the dark prison of Matter, to enlighten its blind instincts, random
intuitions, vague perceptions till it shall become capable of this greater light and
this higher ascension. Mind is a passage, not a culmination [italics added].
(Aurobindo, 1990, p. 138)

Ego, in Western psychology, is the aspect of personality that individuates and
gives the human being the identity of self. Ego provides the sense of distinction between
the I and not-I (Ajaya, 1983, p. 127). It allows the individual to operate in the world of
matter, that initial individualizing mechanism which binds and identifies consciousness
with form (Lithman, 2003, p. 11). Ego is involved in self-preservation activities and in
directing instinctual drives and urges into appropriate channels (APA, 2007, ego). Sri
Aurobindo valued the ego for its important role in human evolution. The ego-sense
serves to limit, separate and sharply differentiate, to make the most of the physical form
and it is there because it is indispensable to the evolution of the lower life (Aurobindo,
1996, p. 734). However, he considered the ego to have a limited role and to be an
intermediate step in consciousness evolution. The next step is for the psychic being to
emerge and direct human activity.
Ego is constituted by Nature and is at once a mental, vital and physical formation
meant to aid in centralising and individualising the outer consciousness and
action. When the true being [psychic being] is discovered, the utility of the ego is
over and this formation has to disappearthe true being is felt in its place.
(Pandit, 1992, p. 74)

Ego and its function will be further elaborated later in this chapter.
39
Sri Aurobindo used the term vital to denote the life-affirming senses and
emotions that make us human beings. He structured his view of the human system using
the trinity of physical, vital or life, and mental.
Sadhana, or Sdhan in Sanskrit, is a science of spiritual discipline (Vrinte,
2002, p. 252). Yoga is the desire, the aspiration to seek the Divine. It is the method or
system used to access the Divine (Dalal, 2001; Pandit, 1992).
Siddhis traditionally refer to special powers or paranormal abilities (Feuerstein,
2001, p. 367). Siddhi also means attainment, realization (p. 367) and it is in this context
that Sri Aurobindo uses the term. It signifies a high level of attainment in spiritual
practice. In Integral Yoga, siddhi is the successful outcome, the accomplishment, of the
aims of yoga (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 394).
Sachchidananda, or Sat-Chit-Ananda, is the highest attainment of consciousness.
It is the trinity of existence-consciousness-bliss, the Divine, Brahman, the Absolute
(Dalal, 2001; Pandit, 1992).
Integral Yoga Psychology
According to the sages of ancient India whose wisdom was put into writing in the
Vedas over 2000 years ago, there are two forces, energies, or substances existing in
earthly existence: spirit and matter. Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga has its roots in
Vedantic philosophy, where spirit and matter are not dualistic and separate but are one
entity (Dalal, 2001; Tigunait, 1983).
Spirit is the crown of universal existence; Matter is its basis; Mind is the link
between the two. Spirit is that which is eternal; Mind and Matter are its workings.
Spirit is that which is concealed and has to be revealed; mind and body are the
means by which it seeks to reveal itself. (Aurobindo, 1996, p. 24)

40
Sri Aurobindo described the process of Integral Yoga and its psychology based on
his own experience. He delineated the horizontal and vertical processes as a way to help
students make sense of their own journeys. Experience is vital to the Integral Yoga
process; one could not comprehend universal truths without it. Knowledge alone does not
suffice for self-transformation. He endeavored to share his experience with his students,
never to outline and promulgate a new system of psychology (Dalal, 2001).
Transformation involves higher consciousness replacing lower consciousness in
earthly day-to-day functioning. It means the individuals psychic being, not the ego,
directs ones life. The psychic being emerges from the subliminal realm and becomes the
active manager of the human being.
One of the first goals in Integral Yoga is for one to become aware of all the forms
of consciousness within oneself and to become awake and centred with the inner being
(Dalal, 2001, p. 10). From there, one can uncover even higher realms of consciousness.
Consciousness descends from the highest realms, which Sri Aurobindo called involution,
to the physical and human realm. It also ascends back to its original source, which Sri
Aurobindo called evolution (Dalal, 2001, p. 11).
[The goal of Integral Yoga is to] open the consciousness to the Divine and to live
in the inner consciousness more and more while acting from it on the external life,
to bring the inmost psychic into the front and by the power of the psychic to
purify and change the being so that it may become ready for transformation and
be in union with the Divine Knowledge, Will and Love. Secondly, to develop the
Yogic consciousness, i.e., to universalise the being within all planes, become
aware of the cosmic being and cosmic forces and be in union with the Divine on
all the planes up to the overmind. Thirdly, to come into contact with the
transcendent Divine beyond the overmind through the supramental consciousness,
supramentalise the consciousness and the nature and make oneself an instrument
for the realization of the dynamic Divine Truth and its transforming descent into
the earth-nature. (Sri Aurobindo as cited in Vrinte, 2002, p. 193)

41
Figure 1 provides a linear outline of Integral Yoga Psychology. Other depictions are
found in Appendixes A and B.

Figure 1. Overview of Integral Yoga Psychology
HUMAN BEING =
[Subliminal] [Subliminal] [Part of the Divine
Self]
OUTER BEING + INNER
BEING
+ CENTRAL
BEINGBelow
& INNER
BEING--
PSYCHIC
BEING
+ CENTRAL BEING--
Above

Body
Mind
Life/Vital
Physical
Mental
Vital
Evolving Soul True Self or Spirit
Jivatman

Note. Adapted by M. R. Kramer, 2008, from A Greater Psychology: An Introduction to Sri Aurobindo's
Psychological Thought by A. S. Dalal (Ed.), 2001, pp. 336-358.


Great significance is placed in Integral Yoga psychology on the development of
the psychic being in order to transcend. One must be aware of it, then bring it forward
into all aspects of the self, then have it direct the individual instead of the ego, and then
begin the ascent-descent process towards the Divine. The psychic being must be the
vehicle driving the process to ensure a smooth and successful integral transformation.
The process of involution hides the spiritual self connected to the Divine within
dense physical matter. The process of evolution seeks to reconnect to the Spiritual self
and to bring it to overtly manifest in physical matter. The Spiritual self then becomes the
driving force in life, not the physical outer self, or ego, that began the current life or
incarnation (Dalal, 2001).
42
I am concerned with the earth, not with the worlds beyond for their own sake; it is
a terrestrial realization that I seek and not a flight to distant summits. All other
yogas regard this life as an illusion or a passing phase.The supramental is
simply the Truth-Consciousness and what it brings in its descent is the full truth
of life, the full truth of consciousness in Matter. (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 68)

Will, knowledge, and love are three principal faculties (Vrinte, 2002, p. 289),
the three divine powers (Aurobindo, 1996, p. 521) of an individual. They correspond,
respectively, with the yogas of karma (work), jnana (knowledge), and bhakti (love).
(Aurobindo, 1996, p. 521). The integrality of them, the union of man with God in all the
three, must therefore, as we have seen, be the foundation of an Integral Yoga
(Aurobindo, 1996, p. 521).
Will and aspiration are necessary, along with purification and consecration of the
lower planes, in order to call down the Divine, (Aurobindo, 1993b). Paradoxically,
transformation involves will and focused effort together with a surrender and receptivity
to the Divine (Aurobindo, 1996, pp. 592-593).
Chitta [pure consciousness] is the stuff of mixed mental-vital-physical
consciousness out of which arise the movements of thought, emotion, sensation,
impulse, etc. It is these that in the Patanjali system have to be still altogether so
that the consciousness may be immobile and go into Samadhi [altered state or
yogic trance state that allows one to access higher states of consciousness]. Our
yoga has a different function. The movements of the ordinary consciousness have
to be quieted and into the quietude there has to be brought down a higher
consciousness and its powers which will transform the nature. (Aurobindo, 1993b,
p. 153)

Psychicisation is a term used by Sri Aurobindo which refers to change that occurs
in the individual when the psychic being replaces the ego as the director of consciousness
(Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 391). Two important movements occur in the transformation
process: psychicisation, the opening of the heart center, and spiritualization, the opening
of the centers of mind. Opening the heart center brings forth the psychic being. Opening
43
the centers dealing with the mind and thought opens the individual to higher realms of
consciousness (Dalal, 2002).
It will be evident that the two most important things here are the opening of the
heart center and the opening of the mind centres to all that is behind and above
them. For the heart opens to the psychic being and the mind centres open to the
higher consciousness and the nexus between the psychic being and the higher
consciousness is the principal means of the siddhi. The first opening is effected by
a concentration in the heart, a call to the Divine to manifest within us and through
the psychic to take up and lead the whole nature.The second opening is effected
by a concentration of consciousness in the head (afterwards, above it) and an
aspiration and call and a sustained will for the descent of divine Peace, Power,
Light, Knowledge, Ananda into the beingthe Peace first or the Peace and Force
together. (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 216)

The difficulty in explaining the psychology of Integral Yoga is that the planes,
sheaths, and levels all permeate and nest with each other. Integral Yoga is a
multidimensional philosophy, which makes reducing it to a linear format confusing. The
analogy of a kaleidoscope may be helpful in understanding the different perspectives of
Integral Yogas psychology beginning with the view of personality. One can then turn the
kaleidoscope and view Integral Yoga psychology from the orientation of consciousness.
A third turn views it from the perspective of transformation. Figure 1 or Appendixes A
and B give an overall picture of Integral Yoga psychology from several orientations.
Kaleidoscope View I: Personality
For Sri Aurobindo, personality is a synthesized interplay of physical, mental, and
vital energies and forces (Sen, 1986, p. 196). Each of these three aspects of personality
has an underlying consciousness associated with it. This section addresses the outer and
inner aspects closest to the realm of matter, or nature. (Aurobindo, 1996). Three planes
form what Sri Aurobindo classified as the lower hemisphere of our earthly existence:
physical, life or vital, and mental. Sri Aurobindo called the body (physical), mind
44
(mental), and life (vital) of the earth plane the triple universe of the lower hemisphere.
They have been established in the earth-consciousness by evolutionbut they exist in
themselves before the evolution, above the earth-consciousness and the material plane to
which the earth belongs (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 51). The outer being aspect consists of
mind, life and body subsets. The inner being aspect subsets correlate in the same way but
are called mental, vital, and physical (Dalal, 2001). Mind consists of the mental
processescognition, intelligence, thoughts, and perceptions.
Outer and Inner Being
In the conscious outer being the physical aspect consists of the autonomic and
physiologic functions of the body, including the nervous system and sensory awareness.
The vital in the outer being is where the emotions, feelings, desires, and instincts reside.
The mental aspect of the outer being is the place of cognition, cognitive function, and the
lower intellect.
[The outer being is the] instrument of expression of the inner consciousness and
the psychic; but at the same time it receives influences from the inconscient and
subconscient [levels of consciousness not known to waking consciousness] below,
from the subliminal behind and from the superconscient [level of consciousness
above or higher than waking consciousness] above as well as from the
surrounding environment. (Vrinte, 2002, p. 221)

The inner being consists of a physical, vital, and mental aspect as well but on a
more subtle level. The inner being is the more subtle and hidden aspect of the individual,
found in the subliminal consciousness. Ego, subtle energy centers called chakras, and the
doorway to the psychic being (soul) also dwell here.
Ego. The individual ego is the identified matrix that binds all aspects of the self in
nature. The ego is the representative of the individual, found in the superficial and inner
container housing multiple layersboth horizontally and verticallyof the individual.
45
Ego is a practical constitution of our consciousness devised to centralize the activities of
Nature in us (Dalal, 2001, p. 132). Sri Aurobindo viewed the ego as a temporary step, a
transitional aspect of personality, in evolution (Sen, 1986). The limited ego is only an
intermediate phenomenon of consciousness necessary for a certain line of development
(Aurobindo, 1990, p. 66). The ego directs the three aspects of the humans inner and
outer aspectsmind, vital, and physicalbut the roots of ego are found in the vital, the
realm of emotions and senses.
Ego is formed by the mental, vital and physical as a way of centralising and
individualising the outer consciousness and action (Pandit, 1992, p. 74). The psychic
being, when it emerges, replaces the egowhen the true self [psychic being] is
discovered, the utility of the ego ceases, this formation [ego] disappears and the true
individuality is felt in its place(Dalal, 2001, p. 408).
If the outer being has not been purified and under the control of the psychic being
when higher spiritual impulses manifest in the individual, the ego, especially a
hyperinflated ego, can pose a threat to spiritual progression.
If these influences are not eliminated, and the higher powers being to descend, the
lower may come across and cover up the descent, and the stimulation it gives is
misused for the purposes of the lower nature. It is mainly due to this reason that
many sadhaks fall into a state of magnified ego, upheavals, exaggerated sex or
other vital passions after having higher spiritual experiences. (Vrinte, 2002, p.
265)

Anyone who has been through the early New Age, human potential, and transpersonal
movements has heard stories of spiritual leaders and teachers who succumbed to this kind
of behavior.
46
Physical/body. The physical body exists in the outer surface closest to the plane of
matter, and it is only one part of physical consciousness. The physical body is also a
triadic system, consisting of body-physical, body-vital, and body-mind.
Mind/mental. Physical-mental, life-mind, and mental-mind exist in the outer
being; physical mind, vital mind and thinking mind are on the inner plane (Dalal, 2001, p.
42). Mind does not necessarily correspond to knowledge. Mind is part of the journey, a
stepping-stone between the darkness of matter and the light of the Spirit. Mind is the
easiest and most efficient aspect of the human being to use in transformation. Intelligent
will is the primary force with which to accomplish transformation (Aurobindo, 1996).
The mind is the link to consciousness and the brain is the conductor, the conduit, and the
translator for the mind. Mind is an instrument of the physical rather than an independent
component of ones consciousness (Sen, 1986, p. 64). A major step in the transformation
at the mind level is for one to learn to silence it in order for higher knowledge and
experiences to come through. It isin the silence of the mind that it is easiest for
knowledge to come from within or above, from the psyche or from the higher
consciousness (Aurobindo, 1970b, pp. 1254-1255).
Intellect is connected with the outer beings mind and consists of imagination,
perceptions, and inferences. Its function is to apply reason to perceptions from the mind
and senses, reach logical conclusions, and, if well trained, assist the mind to receive
higher knowledge. But it is only capable of producing ideas regarding the Divine.
Intellect is a reflection and a degradation of the Supermind, a ray of gnosis seized by the
sense-mentality and transformed by it into something other than its source (Aurobindo,
1990, p. 741). Intellect is transformed into higher mind in Integral Yoga psychology.
47
Vital/life. The spirit itself if it wants to manifest in matter must use the vital
(Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1292). The outer life vital part of nature consists of the desires,
impulses, drives, and emotions in the individual. For Sri Aurobindo, it is where the
majority of humanity lives, with the mind as its servant rather than its illuminator.
The inner vital has four parts:
1. Chakra centers of throat to head (mental vital)mental expression of
emotions and senses.
2. Chakra center of heart (emotional vital)emotions and feelings. The heart
area is a double center. The anterior portion is the emotional vital; the
posterior contains the psychic being.
3. Chakra centers from heart to navel (central vital)a stronger vital, more
outward and invested in its drivesmanifestation of outward drives of greed,
power, fame.
4. Chakra centers below the navel (lower vital)smaller, more individual
desires and drives of sex, vanity, need fulfillment (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 53;
Dalal, 2001, p. 59).
Merging with the psychic being gives the vital its own immense energy and
prepares it for transformation (descent of the Divine). When it continues beyond the
psychic being to merge with the higher mind, the vital opens to greater knowledge and
light as well. This obedience of the vital to the psychic and the higher mind is the
beginning of the outgoing of the yogic consciousness in its dynamic action upon life
(Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1291). Will may have the greatest impact when used in the
purification of the vital. The ego and the vital resist attempts to transmute them. The
48
vital is a good instrument but a bad master (Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1293). The
purification and control of the vital is essential to transformation.
Psychic Being or Soul
The psychic being, or soul, is the part of the individual in direct connection to
ones spirit. Spirit is the Consciousness above mind, the Atman or universal Self which
is always in oneness with the Divine (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 395). It is ones true self. It
is the part that continually nudges one to discover and uncover it in order to directly
reconnect the individual to her or his central being. The psychic being is the
representative of spirit in nature. Whereas spirit never changes or evolves, and is not part
of the cycle of birth and rebirth, the psychic being continuously reincarnates into the
world of matter and evolves. The psychic being is the metaphoric black hole that binds
and transports the soul back to its connection to the true self or spirit. The true self, with
the soul representing it in nature, connects to and is also part of the Divine. The psychic
being is the unitary and unifying consciousness in man (Sen, 1986, p. 233). It is
essential wholeness.
Certain conditions are necessary for the opening of the psychic being: purity of
being, detached from desire and emotional cravings; focused intention on attaining ones
goal; sincerity unencumbered by ego, which resists spiritualization and wants or desires
to control the outcome; and aspiration, directing the will to focus on the Divine
(Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1099). The psychic being must open fully and connect to ones
outer and inner being as a preliminary step in transformation. The inner being also opens
toward the psychic being (Aurobindo, 1993b, pp. 210, 212).
49
Personality change cannot be accomplished until the psychic being (soul) is
opened and brought through to waking consciousness. Afterward, the psychic being,
along with will and intention, directs the change in personality. The psychic being
replaces ego as the director of personality and behavior. And once the psychic being
guides human action and decision-making, one can safely delve into the unconscious and
subconscious impulses that influence personality and behavior. The psychic being
becomes the vehicle, replacing the ego, which assists in ones spiritual transformation,
especially at the lower levels, to proceed smoothly and safely. It provides the individual
with the tools and powers needed to purify and liberate ones naturephysical, vital, and
mentaland prepare the human being to open and receive the Divine when it descends.
Therefore, once the psychic being emerges and integrates with the inner and outer beings
of the individual, transformation can occur that aligns the individual with Divine truth
and its impulses. The channel opens and the descent of the Divine into nature becomes
possible.
Central Being
The central being is part of the Divine that exists in and supports each individual.
The central being consists of ones spirit and ones soul, the higher and lower aspects
respectively. The central being is:
The portion of the Divine in us which supports all the rest and survives through
death and rebirth. It has two forms: the Jivatman, which is above the manifestion
in life and presides over it; and the psychic being which stands behind mind, life
and body in the manifestation and uses them as its instruments. (Dalal, p. 2001, p.
406)

50
Both endure and are not destroyed by death. The spirit does not participate in the life and
birth cycle of reincarnation. The psychic being is involved in the cycle of death and
rebirth and evolves as well.
Kaleidoscope View II: Consciousness
Consciousness is not only a state of awareness, it is also energy capable of
movement and force. It is at once dynamic and static. The planes of consciousness
permeate all layers of an individual. The exterior plane holds waking consciousness. The
inner plane or being contains the subconscient, that which is below waking
consciousness, and the subliminal, that which is behind consciousness. The higher planes
hold layers of higher mind consciousness.
Superconscient, subliminal, and subconscient represent three hidden sources of an
individuals actions and behavior (Dalal, 2001, p. 38). Figure 2 lists the levels of
consciousness, from higher (Divine) to lower (nature). The diagrams in Appendixes A
and B also show the movement of consciousness within the individual. Sri Aurobindo
believed these levels must be experienced and integrated in order for the Divine to fully
operate in the physical realm. Overmind is the highest form individuals can attain through
their own efforts.

51
Figure 2. Levels of Consciousness
Sat-Chit-Ananda = The Divine
Supermind = Supramental = Truth-Consciousness
Overmind

Intuition Mind
Superconscient Consciousness
Illumined Mind

Higher Mind

Conscious Mind = Life/Vital, Sense/Physical
Physical consciousness
Subconscient
Inconscient

Note. Adapted by M. R. Kramer, 2008, from A Greater Psychology: An Introduction to Sri Aurobindo's
Psychological Thought by A. S. Dalal (Ed.), 2001, p. 338.


Inconscient, Subconscient, and Outer Consciousness
Inconscient or unconscious. The inconscient is hidden consciousness that uses the
field of matter. It is the most involved state of consciousness below the subconscient; it
is an instrument of a secret consciousness which has created the universe (Sri Aurobindo
as cited in Vrinte, 2002, p. 226). The inconscient may be likened to the realm Carl Jung
called the collective unconscious (Sen, 1986). The inconscient is the plane of which only
a fragment is conscious.
Subconscient or subconscious. Basic consciousness, chitta, is subconscious to a
large extent (Sen, 1986). The subconscient begins at the edge of the inconscient, where
the Inconscient struggles into a half consciousness (Vrinte, 2002, p. 226). It is below the
surface consciousness, operating in the purely physical and vital parts of the being
(Vrinte, 2002, p. 226). It is the plane where the inconscient is working to become
conscious (Sen, 1986).
52
[The subconscient] covers the purely physical and vital elements of our
constitution of bodily being, unmentalised, unobserved by the mind, uncontrolled
by it in their action.It covers also those lowest functionings of submerged
sense-mind which are more operative in the animal and in plant life. (Aurobindo,
1990, p. 764)

The mind has no power or control in the subconscient, where habits and
unconscious instincts dwell. The subconscient aspect contains all experiences and
memories. It is the major reason that people cannot change their character or personality.
In fact, he strongly cautioned his students on delving into the subconscious realms and
inner subliminal realms without first opening the psychic being and anchoring it into their
consciousness (Aurobindo, 1993b; Dalal, 2001). The subconscient is the main culprit for
the manifestation of illness. Chronic or repeated illnesses are indeed mainly due to the
subconscient and its obstinate memory and habit of repetition of whatever has impressed
itself upon the body-consciousness (Dalal, 2001, p. 33).
Sri Aurobindo stressed the importance of opening and strengthening the psychic
being before opening the lower subconscious aspects of self.
[For] to begin by opening up the lower subconscious, risking to raise up all that is
foul and obscure in it, is to go out of ones way to invite trouble. First one should
make the higher mind and vital strong and firm and full of light and peace from
above; afterwards one can open up or even dive into the subconscious with more
safety and some chance of a rapid and successful change. (Sri Aurobindo as cited
in Sen, 1986, p. 50)

Sri Aurobindo was against early psychoanalysis for this reason, because psychoanalysis
dealt with the subconscious without strengthening the other higher aspects of personality
first. Early psychoanalysis delved into subconscious realms before ensuring the
personality was solidly anchored through the psychic being (Aurobindo, 1993b).
None is more ignorant, more perilous, more unreasoning and obstinate in
recurrence than the lower vital subconscious and its movements. To raise it up
prematurely or improperly is to risk suffusing the conscious parts also with its
53
dark and dirty stuff and thus poisoning the whole vital and even mental nature.
(Sri Aurobindo as cited in Sen, 1986, p. 51)

Sri Aurobindo emphasized changing and focusing ones consciousness toward the
light of the Divine first, before addressing the unconscious realms.
A descent into the subconscient would not help us to explore this region, for it
would plunge us into incoherence or into sleep or a dull trance or a comatose
torporbut is only by drawing back into the subliminal or by ascending into the
superconscient and from there looking down or extending ourselves into these
obscure depths that we can become directly and totally aware and in control of the
secrets of our subconscient physical, vital and mental nature. This awareness, this
control are of the utmost importance. For the subconscient is the Inconscient in
the process of becoming conscious [italics added]; it is a support and even a root
of our inferior parts of being and their movements. It sustains and reinforces all
in us that clings most and refuses to change [italics added], our mechanical
recurrences of unintelligent thought.To penetrate there, to bring in light and
establish a control, is indispensable for the completeness of any higher life, for
any integral transformation of the nature. (Aurobindo, 1990, p. 765)

Outer consciousness. Ego drives outer consciousness (Dalal, 2001). Ego, initially,
was an important aspect of the human being. Nature created the ego as a subjective way
to provide the individual with a sense of individuality apart from the mass of humanity.
This was necessary in order for the individual to become aware of the connection to the
Divine and to desire reconnecting with the Divine. Paradoxically it is individual, not
collective, evolution that evolves humanity. It is because of the spiritual Person
[spiritual being, transformed from a human being], the Divinity in the individual, that
perfection or liberationhas to be individual and not collective (Dalal, 2001, p. 131).
Subliminal Consciousness and Cosmic Consciousness
Besides the hierarchical system of the Mind (as the vehicle of consciousness),
there are also interpenetrating fields of consciousnesssubliminal and cosmic.
Subliminal consciousness. Subliminal consciousness permeates nature and exists
behind waking consciousness. The subliminal touches every aspect of the lower nature. It
54
is also attached to cosmic consciousness and the superconscient. It is the silent watcher,
the messenger. It is a doorway to the superconscient, accessed mainly through dream and
trance states. The subliminal exists behind consciousness; the subconscient and
unconscient are below, and superconscient is above. The subliminal is behind surface
consciousness; it is circumconscient. The subliminal is connected to the universal
consciousness, not confined to the material world (Aurobindo, 1970a, 1970b, 1990,
1996).
[The subliminal] extends itself into an enveloping consciousness through which it
receives the shock of the currents and wave-circuits pouring upon us from the
universal Mind, universal Life, universal subtler Matter-forces. These,
unperceived by us on the surface, are perceived and admitted by our subliminal
self and turned into formations which can powerfully affect our existence without
our knowledge. (Aurobindo, 1990, p. 766)

One area of caution is when the subliminal mind begins emerging into the life and
mind of the outer and inner being. Distortions of truth, knowledge, powers, impulses, and
intuitions may occur (Aurobindo, 1996, p. 843). Sri Aurobindo recommended remaining
detached from these potential distortions and focused on the spiritual goal as a way to
successfully navigate through this phase.
Cosmic consciousness. This consciousness is everywhere; however, it requires a
dimensional shift in consciousnessfrom one that is three-dimensional and bound by
time and space to one that is multidimensional without time and space constraints. The
jump from overmind to supermind initiates the shift to dwelling in cosmic consciousness,
although one may experience glimpses of it for short intervals during the ascent. One can
also wait until the descent of the Divine into the lower hemisphere to experience it.
Individuals enter the plane of cosmic consciousness when they realize they are one with
the universe, merged in a unified and universal existence. It is the place of
55
sachchidananda. In the lower level of cosmic consciousness, duality still exists and can
be experienced as the pain and suffering experienced by human beings on earth. The
duality ceases as one moves up the planes (minds) of consciousness to the higher levels
of cosmic and supramental consciousness (Aurobindo, 1970a, 1970b, 1990, 1996).
Intermediate zone. The intermediate zone is part of the cosmic consciousness.
Within the state of cosmic consciousness, one understands that each individual is
connected, that all forms of matter and all existence are interconnected. The individual,
however, has not necessarily purified and transcended the human mind levels (Vrinte,
2002, p. 268). Information, knowledge, and messages from the Divine begin seeping
through. But the intermediate zone is also mixed with falsehoods and mixed truths that
are not from the Divine, making it difficult to discern truth from non-truth.
Hostile forces are part of the cosmic consciousness realm (Aurobindo, 1993b;
Dalal, 2001). It is where other spirits of a lower nature can possess one. As in the world
of the shamans, Sri Aurobindo believed in a zone of existence that held negative, hostile,
malevolent forces. It is where ones lower nature exerts its strength to prevent the
individuals higher spiritual nature from manifesting or being dominant. Sri Aurobindo
called such forces anti-divine (Aurobindo, 1993b, p. 281). The hostile forces existing in
the intermediate zone act to prevent the growth of the soul into the cosmic Truth
(Aurobindo, 1996, p. 185).
Energies and entities exist in this intermediate zone to test one. One must have
personality strength to know of these potential pitfalls and therefore move easily through
them. It is the reason Sri Aurobindo strongly advocated that the psychic being, not the
ego, is directing the personality before entering the intermediate zone. If ones
56
personality has been purified and cleared so that will and aspiration, which drive the
individual to seek higher realms, and the psychic being are solidly in place, the path is
safer and smoother. Several leaders in the New Age movement experienced what this
author calls, falling off the spiritual ladder. These individuals experienced a piece of
cosmic truth, became popular and famous for their teachings, and either developed
outrageous egos or became sexual predators towards their followers.
Superconscient or Superconsciousness
The superconscient is considered the higher mental plane, where early contact
with supramental consciousness occurs. Where the inconscient and subconscient are
humanitys past, the superconscient represents its future (Sen, 1986, pp. 192-193). The
subconscient and the superconscient are two different formulations of the same All. The
master-word of the subconscient is Life, the master-word of the superconscient is Light
(Aurobindo, 1990, p. 73). Consciousness ascends hierarchically through four minds
before arriving at supermindhigher, illumined, intuitive, and overmind. Ascending and
descending forces commingle in the superconscient realm (Dalal, 2001; Vrinte, 2002).
For a detailed presentation on the levels of consciousness see Figure 2 and Appendixes A
and B.
1. Higher Mindthought-mind, mind of Spirit-born conceptual knowledge
(Dalal, 2001, p. 144). This thought is not acquired knowledge but a self-
revelation of eternal wisdom (Vrinte, 2002, p. 242). One becomes detached and
an observer of ones consciousness.
57
2. Illumined Mindspiritual light, spirit-mind; uses vision instead of thought.
Thought becomes a subordinate process. The individual moves from the power
of Truth-thought to the power of Truth-sight (Vrinte, 2002, p. 243).
3. Intuition Mindbeyond the field of reason, truth perception, and truth
remembrance (Dalal, 2001, p. 150), a flash or impulse from the higher realms.
Intuition works on a higher, purer plane. Truths are directly grasped without using
reason or intellect. Intuitional thought uses a more superior process than previous
reason and intelligence. Intuition brings to man those brilliant messages from the
unknown which are the beginning of his higher knowledge (Aurobindo, 1990, p.
75).
4. Overmindglobal knowledge, cosmic consciousness, highest level of spirit
operating in the individual mind; the spiritual-mind plane; raises the other three
levels to their highest capacity; the highest power, of the lower hemisphere
(Dalal, 2001, p. 156).
Supermind. Supermind is a totally different consciousness than mind. Supermind
contains the force, light, and knowledge (ananda) of Divine consciousness (Aurobindo,
1993b, p. 216). Supermind marks the beginning of the transcendental realm, where union
with the Divine occurs (Dalal, 2001, p. 221). Supermind is characterized by harmony,
wholeness in thinking, joy and peace in feeling, and spiritual illumination. Entering
Supermind triggers a tremendous horizontal level of expansion in ones consciousness
from the vertical ascension path (Vrinte, 2002, p. 245). Only by experiencing it can one
understand. It is nonduality, totally separated from nature. It can also be called truth-
consciousness (Dalal, 2001, p. 159). A. S. Dalal perceived the supermind as the core of
58
the individual that is attached to the Divine. Joseph Vrinte (2002) described it as the place
where the higher mind journey begins.
Kaleidoscope View III: Transformation
Transformation is a triple process:

1. Horizontal: Growth and evolution in matter to set itself up for more complex
transformations in consciousness.
2. Vertical, up: Growth in consciousness to higher levels.
3. Vertical, down: Transformation and integration once these higher levels have
reached the entire beingignorance changes to knowledge, all that is
inconscient becomes conscientthe level of superconscience (Aurobindo,
1990, p. 733).
Transformation of the self involves three types of integration: (a) psychic
transformation; (b) spiritual transformation; and (c) supramental, integral transformation.
The change, therefore, between mind and supermind is effected by the triple
transformation shown in Table 1.

Table 1. Triple Transformation
PSYCHIC SPIRITUAL SUPRAMENTAL
Horizontal Ascent Descent
Developmental Consciousness Evolution

The supramental change is what anchors the Divine into nature and allows the Divine to
manifest on the earthly plane of matter.
59
Transformation need not take place in the same progression. All three steps may
occur and interweave with each other, each step at a different place on its trajectory than
the other (i.e., one being more advanced in its fulfillment than another. This concept
reinforces the idea of individual uniqueness in sadhana. The process of Integral Yoga
also consists of a triple transformation of consciousnessup (evolution), down
(involution), and inward (integration and transformation).
The three stops of transformationshould not be considered as strictly
successive; the spiritual transformation may begin before the psychic
transformation has reached its culmination, or the integral [supramental]
transformation may intervene in the midst of the psychic or spiritual
transformation in order to speed up its pace and shorten the way. (Vrinte, 2002, p.
217)

These transformations are not easy; each transformation contains its own
challenges and pitfalls. Truths are mixed with untruths, illusions with true light. During
the psychic transformation the subliminal beingthe inner being, inner mind, inner vital,
and inner subtle physical beingmay have trouble discriminating that which is coming
from the outer being from that which is coming from the inner being. The emergence of
the psychic being is the field of battle where purification and illumination of hidden
aspects of the outer and inner beings subsequently takes place. It is probably not a pretty
place for a long time! However, purity, will, and aspiration in achieving the goal of yoga
will sustain the individual during this time before the psychic being replaces the ego as
the director for the individual. Those who follow scrupulously a strict guidance or have
the psychic being in front of their nature, or a central sincerity, pass safely (Vrinte,
2002, p. 268).
60
Additional Considerations Regarding the Psychology of Integral Yoga
Integral Yoga and Spiritual Traditions

Union with the Divine, a merging into the cosmic pool of the eternal, is the goal
in yoga as well as for mystics (Chaudhuri, 1965; Underhill, 1970), known as samadhi
(Hindu Brahman), nirvana (Buddhism), and unitive or cosmic consciousness (Christian).
Mysticism, in its pure form, is the science of ultimates, the science of union with the
absolute, and nothing else (Underhill, 1970, p. 72). In Integral Yoga, it is not the final
level of achievement. Integral Yoga takes the concept of the Mahayana Buddhist
bodhisattva ideal one step farther. The goal in Theravada Buddhism is that once one has
reached nirvana, the spiritual union with the ground of all existence (in theistic terms, the
Divine), one becomes an arahanta (Pali), arhant or arahant (Sanskrit), meaning saint
(Goleman, 1972a; 1981). An arahanta, having reached the highest level of nirvana, may
chose to continue living as a saint. The arahanta can also choose to merge and dissolve
oneself with the Source of all and cease to exist as an individual. In Mahayana Buddhism,
the individual may also opt to continue as an individual and work to help humanity by
reincarnating on the earth plane or working from the higher planes as a bodhisattva
(Conze, 1980; Harvey, 1990; Robinson & Johnson, 1977). In Integral Yoga, once the
individual has merged with the Divine, and by the Divine descending into physical
matter, the individual integrates the Divine into all aspects of being. The individual soul,
thus, brings the Divine down to the earth plane to serve humanity through the human
vehicle. Therefore, it is from the total integration of being and using it to serve humanity
from the earthly plane that Integral Yoga enhances the Mahayana Buddhist attainment of
bodhisattva (Chaudhuri, 1967; Vrinte, 2002).
61
Integral Yoga identifies different aspects of the journey to higher consciousness.
It attempts to verbalize what is ineffable in order for others to find their way. Since
ancient times, and in monasteries today, individuals have relied on their teachers, their
gurus, their priests, or more advanced practitioners to help them. Transmission was oral,
or energetic, from teacher to student. Today more seekers are what can be termed
mystics without monasteries (Myss, 1987). Most do not have access to such advanced
teachers, nor do they have the time to devote themselves solely to this pursuit. They have
families, jobs, and responsibilities in the world. So it in this written formin Sri
Aurobindos written guidance to his students, or in any published theory or structure of
transpersonal developmentthat the noetic process is shared; hence, more of humanity
has the potential to achieve their spiritual quest. The potential quantity of souls
developing this way would ensure Sri Aurobindos goal of the evolution of
consciousness.
Ken Wilbers Integral Psychology
Ken Wilbers (2000) Integral psychology model seeks to meld all aspects of the
human psychological existence into one comprehensive picture. His vision is detailed and
the scope is expansive. In a variation of Johares window, Ken Wilber created a four-
quadrant model of Integral psychology (see Table 2).

62
Table 2. Ken Wilbers Integral Psychology Model

Subjective Objective
I
n
d
i
v
i
d
u
a
l

Left Upper Quadrant (LUQ) Right Upper Quadrant (RUQ)

I It
Spiritual Traditions Science/Human System


C
o
l
l
e
c
t
i
v
e





Left Lower Quadrant (LLQ) Right Lower Quadrant (RLQ)

We Its
Cultural/Behavior Society/Groups & Systems



Note. Adapted by M. R. Kramer, 2008, from Integral Psychology: Consciousness, Spirit,
Psychology, Therapy by Ken Wilber, 2000, p. 62. Original terms are in italics.

Integral growth and human evolution must include hierarchical growth in all four
quadrants. Wilber uses a reductionistic empirical approach to analyze the integral
paradigm. He placed the spiritual traditions, including Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga,
and what he calls premodern philosophies, in the Interior-Individual quadrant (LUQ),
because of their focus on individual development and the solitary interior spiritual
experience. But if one comprehends Integral Yogas psychology, the transformational
and integral outcome, when successful, affects all of the other quadrants as well
Exterior-Individual (RUQ), Interior-Collective (LLQ), and Exterior-Collective (RLQ).
The ripple effect has repercussions. Wilber does note that all quadrants mutually
interact and are imbedded in each other (Wilber, 2000, p. 112).
63
Ken Wilber (2000) described a process similar to Sri Aurobindos, where the
psychic being emerges into waking consciousness and replaces the ego. Both Sri
Aurobindos psychic being and Mr. Wilbers transpersonally emerging soul are the
intermediaries between the terrestrial human being and spirit. In Integral Yoga
psychology, however, the conscious awakening and emergence of the psychic being may
occur at any point in an individuals life. It is of a different character than the transient
peak experiences that may precede the psychic beings permanent shift as the director of
the self. Ken Wilbers model has this experience occurring at the F-7/F-8 layer of self-
development (Wilber, 2000, p. 103, Figure 10). Ken Wilber agreed with Sri Aurobindo
regarding the importance of creating a strong personality base or foundation as the human
being continues to develop along a morphogenetic drift to deeper domains (ego to soul
to spirit) (p. 127).
Ken Wilber (2000) argued that Eastern traditions, part of the Great Nest of
Perennial Philosophy and consequently premodern, lacked postmodern knowledge of
cognitive human development and evolution and were, therefore, not integral (p. 67-68).
From his writings, it can be noted that Sri Aurobindo addressed personality development
from adulthood to spirithood, not early cognitive development. He also believed that the
transformation in Integral Yoga from a human being to a spiritual being was the next
evolutionary step. Michael Miovic (2004b) argued that Sri Aurobindos writings, as well
as those of his students, show involvement and action in Ken Wilbers intersubjective
LLQ and interobjective RLQ. Postmodern scientific study, cognitive and physiologic
growth notwithstanding, seems to be verifying what premodern sages already knew. Sri
64
Aurobindo, therefore, meets Ken Wilbers criteria for being integratively pre- and
postmodern.
Ken Wilber (2000) believed that the shortcomings of premodern perennial
philosophy of the East prevented its inclusion as an integral psychology. But he may be
erroneously pigeon-holing these traditions. What may be missing is in fact superfluous. It
may not matter where one starts on the spiritual path, or what cultural or theistic
perspective one has, or what specific path one uses. Wherever one starts, if the individual
makes consciousness growth a lifelong pursuit, all of the aspects identified in Ken
Wilbers quadrants will be affected, influenced, and changed.
In summary, Ken Wilbers Integral psychology (2000) differs from Sri
Aurobindos Integral Yoga psychology in several ways. Both value and include the
experiential component of development. Both are comprehensive, containing the holistic
integral view. Ken Wilbers Integral psychology, however, seeks to collect all aspects of
human development into one integrated single psychology. The thrust is from a
developmental and personality psychology viewpoint that includes transpersonal levels.
Soul and spirit are not entities but aspirations. He also believed that human consciousness
will evolve to the next level only by ensuring that the early or hierarchical levels of
psychological development (the first tier is where a majority of the population operate)
are resolved first. Concentrating on those individuals operating at a higher level of
thinking and psychological development (the second tier, the transpersonal) will not
work. However, Sri Aurobindo believed evolutionary change would occur individual by
individual.
65
Integral Yoga Psychology, Psychology, and Transpersonal Psychology
Development occurs at different points in human consciousness growth in the
spiritual traditions of the East. Eastern traditions start with where one decides to pursue a
spiritual path and provides the assistance in achieving union with the Divine. Once one
begins a spiritual path, work on oneselfthe flaws and imperfectionsare dealt with
along the way. Integral Yoga is not a system developed for psychologically disabled
clients; Sri Aurobindos is primarily interested in the area of development beyond the
ego (Vrinte, 2002, p. 317). As such, Integral Yoga psychology does not address the
developmental issues prior to adulthood. Integral Yoga psychology focuses on how one
develops from adulthood. According to Joseph Vrinte (2002), some Western
psychotherapies (probably found more in depth, psychoanalytic and humanistic therapies)
attempt to strengthen the individuals ego, or to use the ego in resolving psychologic
difficulties, in order to better function in ones life. Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga
psychology aims to transmute the ego so that the psychic being is strengthened and
guides ones life. The ego has its value at the lower levels of existence [nature], and it is
indispensable for the evolution of the lower life but a hindrance for the development of
the higher levels (Vrinte, 2002, p. 321).
Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga psychology includes personality transformation as
the foundation of its sadhana. The change in the lower hemisphere of the individual,
where personality operates, is the first transformation and integration process. Unlike
personality development in psychology, however, the process here is not primarily a
mental one. It is directed by the soul (psychic being, operating in nature), thus making it
spiritual and experiential.
66
The first step in the Integral Yoga psychology process is to become aware and
know ones inner psychic being; it is behind everything in the individual (Dalal, 2001).
Existential-humanistic psychology addresses the early stages of this process; it helps
individuals discover who they are and assists in ones search for meaning and place in the
worldaspects of ones outer and inner conscious beings. Transpersonal psychology
stretches the individual further by exploring realms of consciousness beyond waking
consciousness, where the spiritual aspect of the person dwells. These nonordinary states
could be considered doorways to finding ones inner psychic being. Integral Yoga
psychology connects the individual even further, by way of the psychic being, to access
ones connection with the Divine and all knowledge. Joseph Vrinte (2002) posited that
transpersonal psychology and Integral Yoga psychology are complementary, differing
only in that they address different ranges of human development. Transpersonal
psychotherapy and integral sadhana take consciousness as the true subject matter of
psychology. Both approaches are concerned with the development of latent possibilities
of human nature, mans potential for spiritual growth and higher states of consciousness
(Vrinte, 2002, p. 328).
Spiritual psychology, as a proposed new field of psychology (Miovic, 2004a;
Taylor, 1997), is one term that points to the next evolution for psychology, the next
developmental step within transpersonal psychology. Integral Yoga psychology presents
another possible step. But where spiritual psychology continues to work in the
development and progression of consciousness to another level, Integral Yoga
psychology proposes a broader step by incorporating the transformation of consciousness
into the process of human evolution.
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Integral Yoga psychology appears to have commonalities with two transpersonal
perspectivesspiral-dynamic and structural-hierarchical (Washburn, 2003). Integral
Yoga psychology integrates aspects of the structural-hierarchical (a nested hierarchy)
and the spiral-dynamic perspectives, where deep and hidden sources of consciousness are
waiting to emerge (p. 1). On one hand, one moves through the levels of consciousness
above the higher mind in a sequential manner, each level embedded hierarchically into
the next level (structural-hierarchical). On the other, the notion of involution is found in
the spiral-dynamic viewpointthat an individual can reconnect to sources previously
hidden but always present. The movement of involution and evolution correlates with
Michael Washburns (2003) spiral-dynamic and Ken Wilbers (1980) outward-inward arc
descriptions.
With regard to the pre/trans fallacy discussion, Integral Yoga psychologys
subliminal level of consciousness seems to be more akin to the perspectives of Michael
Washburn and Stanislav Grof than to Ken Wilber (Grof, 1992; Vrinte, 2002; Washburn,
2003; Wilber, 1999, 2000). The pre/trans debate concerns the issue of whether
consciousness prior to human birth is of the same quality as the transpersonal level of
consciousness development in adults. Dr. Washburn and Dr. Grof felt both prepersonal
and transpersonal consciousness are at the same level. Ken Wilber believed the latter is
hierarchically more evolved than the former and is therefore different. The subliminal
level corresponds with the pool of unconsciousness that individuals are born with and
access for different reasons depending on whether one is an infant or adult. The
subliminal contains the spiritual dimension where involution and evolution occur. The
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subliminal level in Integral Yoga psychology is where prepersonal and transpersonal
consciousness might dwell, and it appears to place them in the same or equal category.
If one had asked Sri Aurobindo, he might have agreed with Michael Washburn
(2003) that the solution to the pre/trans argument lies in making the distinction between
ego functioning (structural-hierarchical viewpoint) and dynamic potentials (spiral-
dynamic viewpoint) and their co-existence in the individual. The emerging predominance
of the psychic being in Integral Yoga psychology can then be seen as a part of the
transdynamic process (Washburn, 2003).
The definitions of transpersonal psychology coincide with characteristics of
Integral Yoga psychology: spirituality, transformation, holistic, experiential, states of
consciousness developed beyond waking, integrative, transformational, having global
implications, transcendence, and the highest human potential (Caplan, Hartelius, &
Rardin, 2003; Lajoie & Shapiro, 1992; Walsh & Vaughan, 1993). Integral Yoga
psychology also appears to meet the criteria outlined by Roger Walsh (1999) on seven
essential practices for transpersonal development: redirecting motivation, transforming
emotions, living ethically, developing concentration, refining awareness, cultivating
wisdom, and practicing service and generosity (p. 86).
Indeed, Integral Yoga psychology fits very well into the models found in
transpersonal psychology. Its global potential and goal of transforming human beings into
spiritual beings can be perceived as fitting into the next level or layer of development in
transpersonal psychology, or bridging with the multidisciplinary dialogues regarding the
evolution of consciousness.
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Correlations Between Integral Yoga Psychology and Current Research
Interesting correlations exist between Sri Aurobindos psychic being and certain
heart-centered healing and meditation techniques. Sri Aurobindo placed the psychic
being behind the physical heart, in the heart chakra of the subtle body. Scientific
measurement shows the electromagnetic strength of the heart to be the strongest of any
organ, 5000 times greater than the brains (Childre & Martin, 1999; Oschman, 2002).
When the variable rhythms of the heart stabilize in a regular pattern (coherence),
autonomic nervous system function stabilizes. When used in conjunction with mental and
emotional thought imagery, or meditation, individuals have reported positive and
significant increases in feelings of well-being and clarity. Meditative relaxation practices
that use the heart as the focus (such as HeartMaths Freeze-Frame technique) result in
profound beneficial physiologic changes along with lowered stress responses and a
greater sense of well-being (Childre & Martin, 1999). Sri Aurobindo might say that this
technique assists the psychic being to emerge into consciousness in the inner and outer
being. Integral Yoga psychology stipulates that the mind (higher chakra) and vital (heart
chakra) centers must open to the psychic being (soul) and higher consciousness before
transformation can occur. Mental and psychic planes must be opened before opening the
vital; problems would occur otherwise. Heart-centered meditations use both the mental
and heart centers.
Studies of individuals at the time of death using subtle energy devices have found
energy concentrations over the heart area prior to physical death that leave the bodys
energy field after death (Korotkov, 1998). Such studies possibly correlate with Sri
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Aurobindos (1990; 1993a, 1993b) location of the psychic being, which leaves the
physical body at the time of death.
Evolution of Consciousness
Individual destiny is intimately linked with society and human destiny. Ken
Wilber (2000) proposed that human evolution will progress as a collective endeavor of
humanity. Sri Aurobindo, however, believed that the individual will shift human
evolution, not the collective (Dalal, 2001). For Sri Aurobindo, transformational
development is faster in the individual than for the collective of humanity. Jean Gebser
(1985) followed this line but believed it will be those few individuals in the new
consciousness who will draw the rest of humanity from the old to the new (Feuerstein,
1987; Gebser, 1985). Others, such as Spiral Dynamics creators Clare Graves, Don Beck,
and Christopher Cowan (Wilber, 2000), as well as Ervin Laszlo and Rupert Sheldrake
(Combs, 2002), have similar thoughts. Ken Wilber (2000) showed this pattern occurring
in history later in his work.
Others systems of yoga are singular paths to the Divine knowledge, action,
devotion, synergy of body-mind-spiritfocusing on individual salvation. They do not
address humanitys development or evolution.
That is why in this yoga the ascent to the Divine which it has in common with
other paths of yoga is not enough; there must be too a descent of the Divine to
transform all the energies of the mind, life and body. (Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1292)

Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga integrates these yoga paths to allow a total
transformation and the accompanying effect of transformation of humanity. Sri
Aurobindos Yoga is a yoga of transformation, and unlike the traditional systems of Yoga
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not a mere yoga of realization and liberation from life. This transformation results in a
new species radically different from the present human species (Vrinte, 2002, p. 194).
Conclusion
In the psychology of Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga, three experiences are
expected to occur:
1. The transformation of personality where the soul (psychic being) is brought to
consciousness and effects changes in all aspects of the individual, purifying it
so that the personality aligns with the psychic being. The psychic being
replaces the ego as the director, the overseer, of the individual.
2. The psychic being, brought to consciousness, catalyzes the individual through
the mind vehicle to open up to higher realms of consciousness, transforming
and expanding the individual.
3. Once open to higher realms of consciousness, the opportunity for the Divine
to descend into the individual becomes possible. When it occurs, and the
Divine seats itself in the world of matter, and the individual human being is
transformed into a spiritual being, setting the evolution of humanity on a
faster course.
Sri Aurobindos contributions include: (a) transpersonalsteps and processes to
connect with the Divine; (b) the psychic beingreplaces the ego as the director of human
life. The psychic being guides the changes in all aspects of personality. Integral Yoga
emphasizes using the tools of preparation, intention, aspiration, and receptivity to help
ensure successful navigation of the journey; and (c) evolutionevolutionary
transformation of the human being to a spiritual being.
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Integral Yoga and its psychology are easier to talk about, which is no small feat,
than to accomplish. The Integral Yoga path is a lifelong commitment. Rarely, individuals
progress to the final stage of manifesting the Divine in nature but it can be done. The next
evolutionary step depends on this accomplishment. This path potentially shakes the
foundational principles of some religions because it says that the Divine, God, can
manifest and dwell in human beings on earth. The bedrock of Sri Aurobindos Yoga is
the potential divinity of every soul. Spiritual endeavour consists in striving to manifest
this divinity (Vrinte, 2002, p. 327).
From a reductionistic paradigm, Ken Wilbers (2000) view of Integral psychology
makes sense. It includes all aspects that address human beings. From an energetic
paradigm present in most if not all spiritual traditions, Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga
psychology is equally comprehensive. Nursing theorist Martha Rogers (1970, 1990)
posited in her theory of unitary beings that individuals are fields of energy interacting
with each other while moving to higher levels of complexity and development.
Individuals in Integral Yoga are viewed as energetic forces (Aurobindo, 1993b) seeking
higher levels of divine light and knowledge. Energy transformation in one individual
field affects other human fields of energy. Thus human energy fields, when transforming,
transform each other to a higher energy level, contributing to the population. Hence, Ken
Wilbers integral psychology and Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga psychology both
potentially result in evolutionary shifts in humanity, but from different epistemological
paradigms.
Sri Aurobindos Integral Yoga is a profound and groundbreaking approach to
shifting humanity. It offers individuals the possibility of spiritual transformation in one
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lifetime. How Integral Yoga is working in the Western world, and the experiences of
people along the Integral Yoga path, would be an interesting field of study. For instance,
if Integral Yoga seems impractical to follow completely, as some have observed (Combs,
2002), what is the highest level individuals have reached? What practices are they using?
How are these practices impacting their lives and spiritual progress in Western culture?
How is it manifesting in the lives of individuals practicing Integral Yoga, how has it
changed their lives, what have they experienced along the way, and how far have they
gotten? Comparisons between Integral Yoga and the spiritual traditions of other cultures
with regard to consciousness would also be an interesting study. Another possible area of
study would be how the levels of consciousness in Integral Yoga psychology fit in with
the shamanic paths in various indigenous cultures. Data from these types of study might
assist others on similar paths. Future study in this direction would have implications for
the future of psychology as a science of consciousness, adding to a growing pool of
knowledge on these noetic realms.
The psychology of Integral Yoga has a place in transpersonal psychology and
deserves legitimate inclusion. Others have already discussed the contributions and
influence of Integral Yoga on transpersonal psychology (Miovic, 2004b). Integral Yoga
contains a rich pool of knowledge to contribute regarding consciousness, spirituality, and
cultural and human evolution.
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CHAPTER 3: RESEARCH METHOD AND DESIGN
Transpersonal psychology continues to develop as a field of psychology since its
emergence in the 1960s. It expanded the exploration of human experience to include
spiritual dimensions and nonordinary realms of consciousness. Transpersonal psychology
seeks to delve deeply into the most profound aspects of human experience, such as
mystical and unitive experiences, personal transformation, meditative awareness,
experiences of wonder and ecstasy, and alternative and expansive states of
consciousness (Anderson, 1998a, p. xxi). Transpersonal research methods were created
to address these topics.
This chapter begins with an overview and brief outline of transpersonal research
methodology. Organic inquiry is the transpersonal research method used in this study. It
is discussed in greater detail. The chapter concludes with a discussion of the research
process for this study.
Transpersonal Research Methodology
Transpersonal researchers respect the sacred quality of the topics and the
participants (Braud, 1998b, 1998c). They also value the subjective impact that could
occur in the researcher from conducting such research. One of the unique properties of
applying transpersonal approaches to research is the potential transformation of the
researcher (Braud, 1998c, p. x).
Transpersonal research methods utilize nontraditional sources of information and
analysis. Transpersonal research methods allow and value very different modes of
interpreting and discovering findings, such as intuition, information gathered in
meditation, and channeled guidance. These transpersonal research methods incorporate
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intuition, direct knowing, creative expression, alternative states of consciousness,
dreamwork, storytelling, meditation, imagery, emotion and bodily cures, and other
internal events as possible strategies and procedures in all phases of research inquiry
(Anderson, 1998a, p. xxx). The focus of this study utilizes nonordinary sources of
knowledge.
Western transpersonal theorists accept the Eastern tenet that subjective experience
of a spiritual practice is an important contribution to transpersonal knowledge.
Experiences of nonordinary realms of consciousness are not new, but empirical study of
this topic is a new frontier for Western researchers. The study of subjective experiences
provides unique perspectives but can be a drawback for any attempts to verify or
generalize its findings. Transpersonal research requires a different method of checking
validity because the topics of study do not allow or conform to standard uses of validity.
Individual experiences in nonordinary realms of consciousness, for example, cannot be
verified except by the person experiencing them. It may not be possible to obtain the
same results with repeated studies of the same experience as well. The aim of
transpersonal research is rather illumination and transformation than insuring replication
of data results.
Qualitative transpersonal research methodology exists. William Braud and
Rosemary Anderson (1998), along with teachers and students at the Institute of
Transpersonal Psychology, compiled a set of transpersonal methods of inquiry. Their
book, Transpersonal Research Methods for the Social Sciences: Honoring Human
Experience, is an excellent resource on transpersonal research. William Braud and
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Rosemary Anderson discussed five transpersonal research methods suited for the types
and subjects of interest in transpersonal psychology:
1. Integral inquiry;
2. Intuitive inquiry;
3. Transpersonally informed phenomenological inquiry;
4. Transpersonal inquiry informed by exceptional human experience; and
5. Organic inquiry.
Drs. Braud and Anderson (1998) also provided a synopsis of each of these types (pp.
256-263), a summary of other transpersonally related research methods (pp. 264-269),
and a brief overview of 17 traditional research methods (pp. 270-283).
Integral Inquiry
In integral inquiry (Braud, 1998b) the research question determines the method.
The complexity and uniqueness of human beings supports the idea that more than one
research method may be necessary. Integral inquiry allows for the largest number of
choices, based on a continuum of research methodology from qualitative (experience and
conceptualization types of study) to quantitative (prediction and control types of study),
from understanding and explaining to predicting and controlling, respectively (Braud,
1998b, p. 38, Table 3.1). Alternative ways of knowing, data analysis, and presenting
findings are also aspects to consider. Ultimately, the methods contributing to the richest
and most significant results are appropriate. Integral inquiry emphasizes the importance
of intention in the research process (Braud, 1998b, p. 60, 63).
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Intuitive Inquiry
With its ontology in heuristic, phenomenological, and feminine inquiry, intuitive
inquiry (Anderson, 1998b) is well-suited for the study of transpersonal experiences that
require the researcher to use the skills of intuition and nonordinary states of
consciousness. Sympathetic resonancethe immediate apprehension and recognition of
an experience spoken by another and yettrue for the researcher, as well (Anderson,
1998b, p. 73)is a source of validation used in this method. Other significant qualities
include the importance of compassion, the value and uniqueness of the individual, and
the intent of helping societys disenfranchised persons (p. 71).
Transpersonally Informed Phenomenological Inquiry
Existential phenomenology seeks the meaning and understanding of an
experience. Transpersonal awareness adds numinous, spiritual, and transcendent qualities
to the intention, reflection, meaning, richness, and understanding of the experience (Valle
& Mohs, 1998).
Transpersonal Inquiry Informed by Exceptional Human Experience
Rhea White (1998) observed that exceptional human experiences (EHEs) can
begin as exceptional experiences (EEs). An exceptional experience is an anomalous
experience, one whose existence is considered questionable or impossiblein Western
consensus reality. EEs are psychic, mystical, death-related, and strange encounter
experiences that raise eyebrows (R. White, 1998, p. 129). Such experiences shift to
exceptional human experiences when they become significant, impact the individuals
life, and transform ones existence.
EHEs occur when the experience relates to and is connected with that knowledge
and its source in a transformative way. EEs spotlight new areas of the unknown to
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be explored. EHEs are experiences of dynamic interaction and connection with
that unknown. (R. White, 1998, p. 129)

Exceptional human experiences form a large body of phenomena to be explored in
transpersonal psychologypsychic, encounter, mystical, death-related, and other
anomalous experiences. The researchers creative insight is emphasized (R. White, 1998).
Organic Inquiry
Organic inquiry has its origins in heuristic and feminine spirituality research
characteristics common to other transpersonal methods of study (Braud & Anderson,
1998). Five colleagues at the Institute of Transpersonal PsychologyJennifer Clements,
Dorothy Ettling, Diane Jennet, Nora Taylor, and Lisa Shieldswanted to craft a
transpersonal research method that uses the personal experience of the researcher and
coresearchers to create a sacred work that offers transformation and healing to all who
engage in it, researchers and readers alike (Clements, Ettling, Jennet, & Shields, 1998, p.
114). Other works on organic inquiry include If Research Were Sacred: An Organic
Methodology (Clements, Ettling, Jennet, & Shields, 1999) and Organic Inquiry: Research
in Partnership with Spirit (Clements, 2002). Organic inquiry was also discussed in
articles in the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology (Braud, 2004; Clements, 2004). Dr.
Deah Curry, along with her coresearcher Steven Wells, wrote a guidebook to assist new
researchers in understanding organic inquiry (Curry & Wells, 2003-04).
Contributions from feminist spirituality research incorporated into organic inquiry
include: (a) the value of first person subjective inclusion; (b) equal status between
researcher and participant, promoting mutual trust; (c) diversity and use of previously
unstudied groups of people; (d) strong openness and curiosity to the experience and
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experiences of the participants; and (e) the sense of responsibility to humanity, conveyed
by the topics and participants studied (Clements, 2002, pp. 27-31).
Contributions from transpersonal psychology include using nonordinary sources
of information found in the liminal and spiritual realms, and the value of experience as a
vehicle for psychological growth and knowledge. William Braud (Clements, 2002)
identified five key aspects that organic inquiry contributes to transpersonal qualitative
research:
1. A transpersonal as well as spiritual emphasis and focus during the research
process.
2. Heuristic use of the unconscious, subconscious, numinous, and other non-
ordinary states of consciousness inquiry throughout the process.
3. Use of alternative and innovative approaches to data collection and analysis,
including creative activities, liminal processes, and nonordinary access to
information.
4. Effective and typical use of narratives and stories to convey research findings.
5. The addition of transformation as a goal in the research process for the
researcher, participants, and readers. (p. 4)
Contributions from heuristic inquiry include: (a) the use of research as a vehicle
for personal growth; (b) the value of the researchers internal processes, especially
intuition; (c) Underlying all other concepts in heuristic research, at the base of all
heuristic discovery, is the power of revelation in tacit knowing (Moustakas, 1990, p.
20); and (4) a six-step process (p. 27), condensed to three steps in organic inquiry:
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preparation, inspiration (from immersion and travel within the experience), and
integration (Clements, 2002).
Organic inquiry, while establishing procedures prior to entering the research
process, also expects and accepts the emergence of unpredicted processes or findings,
incorporating them into the study as they occur. Organic inquirys flexibility invites
spontaneous contributions to the research process.
The personal requirements of the researcher are an advanced and stable
psychological and spiritual level of development (Clements, 2002, p .7). Inherent in these
related qualities are an openness to explore and grow further as an individual, and an
ability to explore deeper realms of oneself that carry some risk of losing oneself. One can
view this as a qualification shamans must possess before traversing the many worlds they
encounter in shamanic journeys. One must be able to get back home in one piece and
psychologically intact.
Parallels occur between the research topic of this study and the organic inquiry
method. Transformation is an intended outcome in both. Nonordinary explains both
epistemologies and approaches. Spirituality and sacredness are present throughout. A
dual transformation exists in each as personal and consciousness evolution. The processes
for each require complete consciousness involvement, including exploration of
unconscious processes. Each process values the waiting period prior to receiving
information, knowledge, and inspiration from other realms.
Originally called organic research, the creators (Clements et al., 1998, p. 118)
identified five characteristics, placed into a metaphor for growing a tree, added in
parentheses: Sacred (preparation), Personal (planting), Chthonic (root growth),
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Relational (growth above the ground), and Transformative (harvesting the fruit). The
method changed to organic inquiry and was restructured into three steps in the
transformation process: Preparation (using nonordinary processes of knowing such as
intuition), Inspiration (the journey), and Integration (resulting in transformation). The
original five characteristics remain essential to organic inquiry as the basis for finding
information, accessing knowledge, personal psycho-spiritual growth, understanding from
the experiences of others and therefore transformational, and approaching and conducting
research as sacred.
[Organic inquiry] is a qualitative research approach for the study of topics relating
to psycho-spiritual growth, in which ones psyche becomes the subjective
instrument of the research, working in partnership with liminal and spiritual
sources as well as with participants who have had related experiences. Analysis,
which involves the cognitive integration of liminal encounters, results in
transformational changes to the researchers understanding and experience of the
topic. These are changes of mind and changes of heart, which both inform and
transform. In presenting the results, the researcher uses stories to invite the
individual reader to a parallel yet unique transformative experience. (Clements,
2002, p. 14)

Intuition is a strong aspect of the feminine psyche in the Jungian paradigm.
Organic inquiry, having evolved from feminist philosophy, would therefore include,
honor, and value intuition as a form of knowing. Other transpersonal methods, such as
intuitive and heuristic inquiry, also value the role of intuition.
Studying spiritual topics logically and intuitively points to accessing spiritual
realms in order to receive information and to understand the topic of study. The
inclusion of the influence of Spirit requires that the researcher who chooses the organic
approach be willing to allow this influence to be an ongoing source of creative evolution
(Clements, 2002, p. 139).
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Dr. Clements (2002) identified these reasons for using organic inquiry: (a) the
approach closely mirrors the topic, (b) the method encourages the participation of
spiritual influences, and (c) the method stresses the individual psycho-spiritual growth of
the researcher and of the reader (pp. 136-137). All three reasons concur with this study
as well.
The organic inquiry researcher delves into nonordinary realms of consciousness to
access information. Planes of consciousness beyond higher mind in Integral Yoga are
described in the language of the spiritual. And the expectation of psycho-spiritual
transformation for all involved is both exciting and at the same time anxiety producing.
The excitement involves the sense of awe, intense curiosity, and anticipation akin to
waiting to open a gift. The anxiety stems from the possibility of failure because the skills
of the researcher in creating a final narrative story (reflecting the findings and
coresearchers experiences) may not effect transformation in the reader. Organic inquiry
challenges the researcher to probe depths not previously encountered and discover
aspects of the self previously unknown.
Dr. Clements (2002) distinguished between spiritual and liminal. She stated,
while both terms refer to realms outside of egoic control (along with chthonic and
unconscious), spiritual has a more positive connotation, beneficial to the individual.
Liminal is quality-neutral, possessing neither positive nor negative influences (p. 35).
However, another distinction, more suitable for this study, is that liminal refers to a
doorway to nonordinary realms of consciousness outside of waking consciousness.
Spiritual refers to one of those realms beyond the doorway, while chthonic is in another
realm, connected to the unconscious and subconscious states. Chthonic is the realm of the
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shadow self and refers to the metaphorically murky aspects of the individual yet
unexplored but exerting subtle influence on waking consciousness. In the psychology of
Integral Yoga, chthonic would be considered part of the subliminal, which includes
unconscious and subconscious aspects.
Organic inquiry allows flexibility and creativity in tailoring the method to fit the
unique features of the study as well as inventing new methods from such alchemy.
Jennifer Clements (2002) cited several examples of studies where the researcher varied
the organic inquiry process (pp. 138-139). For example, Deah Curry and Steven Wells
(Curry, 2003; Curry & Wells, 2003-04) added the principle of numinous to the original
five principles of organic inquirysacred, personal, chthonic, relational, transformative,
and numinous.
Participants are considered coresearchers, emphasizing the value of their
contributions and experiences. A significant intended outcome in organic inquiry is that
participation in the study will potentially transform the people involved, including the
reader. It is an intriguing concept, one that lends itself well to the process of human
consciousness evolution. In short, organic inquiry creates an adventure for all involved,
with the ending unknown but leaving them with the deep sense that they will be forever
changed by the journey.
Limitations
There are different mechanisms of communication among living creatures on
earth. For instance, communication between two entities can take place energetically.
Parapsychological abilities such as telepathy, clairvoyance, and medical and empathic
intuition are examples of human abilities to communicate energetically.
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Other forms of communication such as language, verbal expression, and
kinesthetic expression operate in processes such as writing, talking, and demonstrating
emotions, respectively. But how does one communicate to others ones experience about
a realm difficult to put into verbal or physical expressions? How does one communicate,
describe, and share the experience of being in advanced states of consciousness? This
dilemma poses a significant limitation to any transpersonal study of nonordinary
consciousness.
Language is a significant limitation. Verbal or written descriptions do not come
close to relating the experience of higher planes of consciousness and their
transformational quality. Words are mental constructs in an ordinary waking dimension
of consciousness, while the dimensions addressed in studies like the one proposed
operate in realms different from language. Language may not substantially convey these
experiences. Others agree that language can be restrictive and incomplete in explaining
higher dimensions of consciousness (Combs, 2002; Goleman, 1972a, 1972b, 1978-79,
1988; Massad, 2001; J. White, 1972; Wilber, 2000).
Description is not enough. The liberated have continually stressed that words are
only about truth, not truth itself. That cannot be known except through direct
experience, through enlightenment. And often language is a barrier to knowing
the truth because there is confusion between preliminary beams of nonverbal
intuition and a learned arbitrary framework of language.Language is symbolic;
language-thinking is symbol-thinking, and symbols are always other than the
reality for which they stand. As such, language constricts consciousness and
places limits on understanding. (J. White, 1971, p. 15)

In an opposing viewpoint, Richard Trench saw language as a repository, a holder,
of truths long forgotten.
[Language is] wiser, not merely than the vulgar, but even than the wisest of those
who speak it. Sometimes it locks up truths which were once well known, but have
been forgotten. In other cases it holds the germs of truths which, though they were
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never plainly discerned, the genius of its framers caught a glimpse of in a happy
moment of divination. (Trench as cited in Huxley, 1972, p. 67)

Somewhere between these two opposing views is an answer. As a personal belief,
borne out frequently, the larger truth is often found when both extremes of a paradox are
equally accepted, as if in accepting two opposite ideas as an integrated whole, one slips
into a higher dimension of awareness where duality does not exist and new knowledge is
acquired.
How, then, without the direct experience attained by those rare individuals who
can achieve these higher states of consciousness, can others comprehend or even
vicariously apprehend these realms if language alone is inadequate? One answer may be
nonverbalusing the energy of the experience and attaching it to the narrative
description of the experience.
The researcher presents an additional potential limitation. Research using organic
inquiry relies heavily on the skills and abilities of the researcher. The researcher must be
able to traverse multiple levels of consciousnessliminal, numinous, chthonicto
retrieve the necessary information that makes transformation successful. As mentioned
earlier, a stable and aware psyche and a high level of spiritual experience are important
attributes for the researcher.
Validity and Reliability
Validity is used to assess the accuracy of findings in the study, whether the
descriptions of the findings truly reflect what the topic of the study intended (Braud,
1998a). Reliability allows for the same study to be repeated in order to determine if
similar findings result. The standard for validity and reliability in qualitative research
deviates from that of quantitative studies to such an extent that it continues to be an issue
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in qualitative studies. Transpersonal research methods are more controversial. An
important point to keep in mind when discussing validity and reliability in transpersonal
research is that the topics in transpersonal studies:
1. Are unique and therefore individualized. Quantitative research, in contrast,
values topics that can be generalized and are capable of replication.
2. Often defy three-dimensional boundaries of reality because the majority of
topics deal with spiritual matters and intangible concepts such as nonordinary
consciousness.
3. Require a restructuring of how validity and reliability are measured because of
points 1 and 2.
Validity in transpersonal research simply finds innovation and alternative ways to
assess accuracy, which may vary between studies. One way to look at validity is by how
it transforms the individual. Organic inquiry carries a built-in criterion for validity: the
goal of transformation. What is needed is to ground the validity of spiritual knowledge,
not on the replicable spiritual experiments that bring falsifiable experiential data, but on
its emancipatory and transformative power for self, relations, and world (Ferrer, 2002, p.
65).
Evaluation of transformation is inherent in the organic inquiry method.
Transformation occurring in anyone who participates can be confirmed by the narratives
included in the final summary of the study, or somewhere near the end depending on the
researchers design. The readers subjectively determine if transformation occurred,
representing an ongoing validation, though not all who read the study are expected to
undergo transformation (see Clements, 2002, pp. 222-225).
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This study included measures directed at reflecting the accuracy of its findings.
Coresearchers were asked to verify written transcripts as correctly reflecting the dialogue
that occurred during the interview. Coresearchers also critiqued their own narrative story
to verify that the researchers findings reflect or approximate their experiences in higher
realms of consciousness. Coresearchers did the same in reading material from their
interviews for overall stories. Finally, coresearchers had an opportunity to describe how
their participation in the study affected them.
Individuals are unique and so are their experiences. Replication of findings is
unlikely to occur in transpersonal studies because of the spiritual and nonordinary nature
of the topics, and because the foundation of transpersonal studies emphasizes uniqueness
and values individuality. It is the uniqueness of the topics and the individuals in studies
that help to generate the questions for study in the first place.
When looking at replicability, the best the researcher can do is to accurately and
comprehensively detail the research process in order to provide enough information for
anyone wishing to conduct a similar study. The findings may be similar, depending on
the topic, but they are never expected to be the same.
Transpersonal research methods do not serve to contribute to the knowledge pool
by replicating studies but to enrich knowledge the way a work of art enriches the visual
field or music enriches the listener or literature enriches the reader. All who experience
such works emerge changed from the encounter in some way. They are not quite the
same.
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Precautions in Profound Interplays Between Individuals
Jennifer Clements (2002), in addressing the inspiration aspect of the organic
inquiry process, discussed the importance of attitude, receptiveness, the use of therapeutic
skills during the interview, and setting boundaries (pp. 162-163). She cautioned that
while ego loss can occur during the interview, the researcher must concomitantly
maintain ego boundaries and control them sufficiently in order to keep them in a
subordinate and silent status. An interview invites an intimacy but not a merging with
the participant (Clements, 2002, p. 163). However, there is another perspective to
consider.
In a typical psychotherapeutic relationship therapists and clients maintain
intellectual, emotional, and energetic boundaries between them. In healing or energetic
work, these boundaries merge, blur, and re-emerge. The therapists intent and energies
must be positive and specific because that is what clients receive. Or, if therapists are
channeling higher energy to the clients as, for example, in Reiki healing, they must create
and maintain a clear channel in order for clients to receive what is most beneficial for
them. Afterwards, therapists, especially those involved in bodywork, must develop ways
to clear themselves so as not to retain any essences of their clients in their own energy
fields and psyches.
The spiritual nature of transpersonal topics suggests a caveat about, if not a
disagreement with, Dr. Clements contention. The researcher engages in a sacred
interaction with the coresearcher, not a therapeutic relationship. In order to facilitate a
potential transformation in consciousness, the researcher should attempt to experience
what the coresearcher experiences. It is not necessarily a merging with the coresearcher
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as much as it requires a merging with the experience. It requires the researcher to possess
a highly developed ability to discern and walk this fine line. This suggests again the
importance of the researcher knowing her or his psychological and physical limits in
order to care for personal needs while engaging with the material of the participant
(Clements, 2002, p. 162).
Some Variations of Organic Inquiry for the Current Study
Organic inquiry uses the personal subjective voice of the researcher, which runs
counter to mainstream research guidelines, including APA writing style and Saybrook
Graduate Schools requirements. In order to satisfy both expectations, the first three
chapters of this study comply with APA and Saybrook styles, using the third person
objective. The chapters addressing the research process, findings, analysis, and reporting
of results switch to first person subjective in order to comply with organic inquirys
process. Another minor variation to APA and Saybrook style is the use of first and last
names or titles throughout the study when discussing individuals as a sign of respect in
organic inquiry.
Organic inquiry, as Jennifer Clements described it, emphasizes the researchers
personal desire to explore and share the topic as the primary motivator for the study.
Participants, as coresearchers, are seen to expand and affect the researchers experience.
In this study, the roles have been reversed. As the coresearchers discussions of their
experiences are heard and described in the interview, the researcher attempted to
apprehend those experiences personally. Integral Yoga practice represents a different
path to advanced planes of consciousness for the researcher, one not previously explored.
Thus, the researcher attempted to use the coresearchers experiences as a basis for her
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own experiences during the study. As Jennifer Clements (2002) stated, we must allow
ourselves to be so open to the story of another that we are willing to be changed by it (p.
31).
Pertinent Studies in Organic Inquiry
Organic inquiryby virtue of being an emerging research process and a fluid,
intuitive, and responsive methodallows choice and variety in its structure. A wide
latitude of design exists within its basic theoretical framework (a discussion of individual
studies can be found in Clements, 2002). Two pertinent examples of studies with
variations follow.
Sandra Magnussen (2004) used organic inquiry to study the effect on clinical
practice of 12 psychotherapists involved in Tibetan Buddhist Guru Yoga practice.
Transcribed interviews made into essence-stories (p. 1) were analyzed, with three
people reading the final storyeach knowledgeable about Tibetan Buddhism,
psychotherapy, or bothproviding feedback as readers on the transformational quality of
the study. A variation in the study is that Dr. Magnussen did not have the participants
review the narratives of others for confidentiality reasons; three expert readers provided
the feedback on the impact of the narratives. She chose pseudonyms for the participants
rather than participants choosing their own. She used case study narrative to convey her
information when she told their stories, with her story interweaving throughout the
narrative.
This study also used three outside readers to evaluate the impact of the stories. It
differed in that the overall and discussion stories are a compilation of the coresearchers
individual narratives, combining specific topics and information they shared. Dr.
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Magnussens (2004) study also addressed the energetic transfer of energy that takes place
between the psychotherapist and the client, the guru and the student. The current study
accepted the premise of energy exchanges between people. Having individuals read the
narratives and comment on their impact on them could form the basis of another study, or
at least a phase II study, looking at both current impact and its impact over time.
Another study combined collaborative and organic inquiry, and was multi-
layered. Laura Cornell (2006) sought to answer the question, How can the ecological
roots of Yoga be brought to the present? (p. 72). She gathered data from two retreats,
one year apart, where six Kripalu Yoga teachers met to explore the possibilities of
creating a Green Yoga community. Pre-participation interviews (which produced the
biographical portraits included in the final narrative), the participants journal entries over
the year between retreats, email communications, phone conferences, transcripts of the
retreats, and written anecdotal notes were included in the data analysis. Several methods
of inquiry were also used depending on the level of inquirycase study, collaborative
group action, theory building, and organic inquiry. Dr. Cornell integrated all of the data
and distilled it into a summary narrative of the entire process of their collaborative
efforts, including the outcome of their efforts and her own personal journal entries
throughout. Her dissertation study is written as a narrative report, rich in detail. A
variation in her study was that the participants chose to use their real names rather than
pseudonyms.
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Summary
Organic inquiry is the transpersonal qualitative research method chosen for this
study. It acknowledges the sacred quality of the research topic. It utilizes nonordinary
sources of information and encourages creative and innovative modes of data analysis.
Organic inquiry is not an easy research method to use. It demands a great deal of
the researcher: a personal involvement with the research question, a very high level of
self-awareness, and the ability to access alternative sources of knowing and information.
The expected outcome is no less demanding: transformation of the researcher,
participants, and the reader.
Research Design
This section is where the language shifts from third-person to organic inquirys
preference for first-person. Congruent to organic inquirys process, this section is
organized to reflect its three major steps: preparation, inspiration, and integration. These
steps are repeated throughout the study on several levels of the research experience. For
instance, prior to the interview (preparation) participants, as coresearchers, and I
individually prepared for the meeting. Each of us prepared our inner and outer sacred
space in a way that allowed us to receive information and sensations (inspiration).
Afterward we cognitively integrated (integration) our experience into our waking
consciousness in order to use it in the interview. During an organic inquiry, the
researcher repeatedly follows a three-step process of psychologically traveling to the
liminal realm beyond ego, gathering experience, and returning to integrate it into the
ongoing research process (Clements, 2002, p. 113).
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Preparation
In preparation, one identifies ones intent, brings ones ego into partnership with
Spirit, offers oneself as the reverent instrument and screen of the study, and opens ones
psyche to the liminal realm (Clements, 2002, p. 115). Organizationally, preparation
includes setting my intention and establishing the process for approaching the study with
respect for the sacredness of the endeavor, as well as setting up my sacred space. During
the study, I lit incense and candles, and set my intent for the research through meditation
and prayer prior to working on it. Participant coresearchers were also asked to prepare
themselves for the interview experience in their own personally meaningful way.
Preparation also includes addressing measures that maintain participant anonymity and
confidentiality throughout the study, and the selection and recruitment of participants
Confidentiality and anonymity. Anonymity is essential, and its continued
emphasis is prominent throughout this study. The topic, its depth, its importance to the
participant, and the intensely personal and sacred nature of the experience can be
potentially threatening and anxiety-producing, thereby limiting the detail, depth, and
outcome of the study. The questions being asked and the answers given are profoundly
personal to the participants. As such, participant coresearchers were not asked to use their
real names and the procedures to maintain anonymity were explained in writing in order
for them to feel safe. Saybrooks Internal Review Board (SIRB) guidelines were
followed, especially with regard to protection of identity and maintaining anonymity.
Great care was taken to minimize potential recognition of the coresearchers by any
readers. The Integral Yoga community is small and the interaction among its members is
significant. The coresearchers were breaking unwritten taboos by talking about their
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experiences. I wanted to protect them and affirm their confidence in me that I would. I let
them choose their pseudonyms. I explained the measures taken in the study designed to
protect their identity. I gave them two opportunities in the analysis process to point out
any passages or information that might identify them so we could resolve it: review of the
transcript and review of the narrative story.
Participant selection and recruitment. The participant coresearchers for this study
represent pioneers in human consciousness. Their intent to explore consciousness is
evidenced by the number of years of studyten or more. They potentially have had
experiences in deeper planes of consciousness. Their willingness to share their personal,
profound, and ineffable experiences requires a courageous spirit.
Eight was an appropriate number of participants for the depth of information that
would be generated from this type of study. Similar studies have used 8 participants
(Curry, 2003; Massad, 2001). A survey of dissertations using organic inquiry showed the
participant number ranging from 1 to 29, with a majority in the range of 4-14. Fourteen
individuals volunteered and participated in the study, exceeding my original goal.
One chooses participants carefully so that the responses are unified and yet also
sufficiently diverse to challenge and expand ones understanding (Clements, 2002, p.
141). Unified responses mean that the participants experiences fit together enough for
the researcher to note patterns and themes and identify an outline for the stories. And the
participants experiences are diverse enough to expose breadth and depth regarding
experiences as well as displaying an appreciation and confirmation of the uniqueness of
the individuals and their experiences.
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I made an announcement of my study at the annual Integral Yoga AUM (All USA
Meeting), asking anyone interested to contact me. Two individuals voiced an interest at
the conference. I emailed the flyer soliciting participants for the study (Appendix C) to
three main Integral Yoga centers in the United States. An academic contact also
forwarded my flyer to one of the centers. Within 16 days, 12 more people contacted me
and offered to participate. No other individuals volunteered after that initial time.
Face-to-face interviews were organized to minimize travel, as all of the
participants lived in geographically diverse locations. Four trips to specific geographic
locations in the United States produced 10 face-to-face interviews. The last 4 interviews
occurred by telephone. I was not able to travel to them because of financial and time
constraints, and 3 of the coresearchers lived outside the continental United States.
I sent a letter of introduction to each volunteer (Appendix C). Recruitment and
selection of participants were not based on gender or ethnicity, but primarily on interest
and number of years of Integral Yoga practice. Participant criteria for selection included:
1. Regular Integral Yoga practice for a minimum of 10 years. Regular Integral
Yoga practice is defined as some participant-identified activity practiced daily
to weekly.
2. Willingness to participate.
3. Grasp of the English language in order to describe their experiences
accurately.
Choosing participants with 10 or more years of Integral Yoga practice increased
the potential for richness, depth and detail, and the possibility of experiences in other
planes of consciousness. The potential for frequent and sustained experiences in these
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planes was greater, that is, there was an increased possibility of trait characteristics as
well as state experiences. Trait characteristics signify an embodiment of these realms in
waking consciousness (Goleman, 1978-79, 1988; Wilber, 2000).
Organic inquiry seems especially suited for allowing coresearchers to reflect on
the question prior to the research interview (Clements, 2002, p. 157). Coresearchers were
given the research questions prior to the interviewin the consent form and participation
letterin order to give them time to think about their answers, gather inspiration, and
receive guidance. Dr. Clements suggested asking the coresearcher to intentionally return
to the most vivid experience of the topic, to relive it in the moment (p. 159), and then
bring it back or forward into the interview. Doing so potentially increases the depth,
quantity, and quality of information shared in the interview. While this decision may bias
other types of research studies, using it in this study enhanced the importance and value
of coresearchers conveying their experiences. I encouraged coresearchers to prepare
themselves to enter the interview in a caring and spiritual frame of mind, if not already
doing so in everyday life.
Inspiration
Immersion in the experience and receipt of information and knowledge in the
liminal realm is unique and distinctive for each researcher in organic inquiry (Clements,
2002, p. 115). Researchers develop their own confirmation signals, their own vocabulary,
while in the liminal experience (p. 115). Inspiration is the activity involved in the
interview process and preliminary data analysis.
Interview process. A consent form, approved by SIRB, was sent to participants
after they agreed to participate. I also sent an accompanying letter explaining the study in
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more detail, as well as the value the participant, as the coresearcher, brought to this study
(Appendix D). A date and time for the interview was set. The coresearchers signed the
consent form prior to the interview.
A digital voice recorder was used for the interviews, along with an audiocassette
recording for backup. However, interview 6 and the telephone interviews (11-14) were
taped with the voice recorder only. The audiocassette recorder broke at the end of one trip
and was not replaced until the next set of interviews (7-10). Recording equipment did not
audibly record one face-to-face interview, which was later conducted by telephone.
I arranged the interviews so that they were mutually convenient and afforded
privacy with minimal disturbance. I also considered my travel times around heavy traffic.
All but 3 of the face-to-face interviews occurred in the coresearchers homes. One
interview took place in a public library conference room and 2 occurred in a quiet room
at the coresearchers workplace. All but one of the telephone interviews took place
between my home and the coresearchers homes. One coresearcher participated in the
telephone interview at an office, well before the workday began.
The interview guide questions (Appendix E) served as a starting point. Each
interview was unique in the direction, sequence, and type of questions discussed. I used
my intuition to decide whether to follow a train of thought, thus maintaining the flow,
with the intention of returning to further questions later. I also redirected the conversation
if I felt it had strayed from the intent and focus of the interview, or was not pertinent. I
used my intuition to ascertain when the interview felt complete or done, confirming it
with the coresearcher. Hence, times varied among the interviews, varying in length from
1 hours and 12 minutes to 2 hours and 26 minutes.
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Questions and discussion were initially of a general natureasking coresearchers
to describe their overall experience of Integral Yoga, their length of time practicing, and
their individual practice routine. Discussion then progressed to focus on their more
profound and significant experiences in Integral Yoga practice. We then explored their
experiences in more detail. I did not ask some of the questions from the guide in a few
interviews. I made the decision not to ask them after realizing the content of our
discussion had its own journey and the coresearchers experiences were unique and
interesting with the current material. At times it seemed that asking further questions
from the interview guide were not pertinent to the experiences being discussed.
Having the coresearchers preview the interview guide questions prior to our
meeting proved advantageous. A few came to the interview with prepared notes to assist
them. Most were able to answer the questions readily, having had time to revisit and
contemplate their experiences beforehand. One or two coresearchers opted not to review
the questions, preferring to enter the interview less prepared. One coresearcher said it
gave the interview a sense of being more of a discussion and less regimented if he did not
review them.
Analysis of datapreliminary. The recorded interview was semistructured and
included anecdotal notes that I made after the interview because I felt taking notes during
the interview would disrupt the flow and sacredness of the meeting. Two individuals not
affiliated or connected to the Integral Yoga community transcribed the interviews. My
analysis incorporated the three processes inherent in organic inquiry for transformative
changepreparation, inspiration, and integration (Clements, 2002, p. 52). A checklist of
the steps, numbered in the following paragraphs, is found in Appendix F. Each time prior
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to apprehending the interview experience, I consciously prepared myself for the
experience, setting both the intent and space. I lit candles and incense and set my
intention to focus on listening, receiving, and relaying the interview material in the best
manner possible.
1. I listened to the tape while concurrently reading the transcript, noting editing
discrepancies, missing words, and so forth.
2. Each coresearcher reviewed a copy of the transcripted interview in order to
verify and clarify perceptions and thoughts.
3. I apprehended the interview three to four times. I incorporated anecdotal
notes, intuitive information, thoughts and ideas, and somatic knowledge.
4. The next step was a phase of meditation, incubation, and rumination prior to
identifying patterns, key words, phrases, and ideas. The material determined
the most appropriate schema for analysis, falling into one of the processes
found in qualitative research texts (Miles & Huberman, 1994; Tesch, 1990).
Dr. Clements (2002) suggested reviewing the data at least four times in order to
focus on each of the aspects of the psyche (using Jungian terminology): feeling and
sensation, intuition, mental thought or thinking, and somatic or physical responses to the
data (p. 179-180). In understanding myself, I arrived at the processing sequence for
listening to the interviews: thinking first, then feeling and somatic together, and intuiting
last. I have a strong mental component and curiosity to my personality. I am also
empathic and I decided that feelings and somatic sensations were inseparable for me and
would be easier to perceive together. Finally, listening intuitively would tie everything
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together for me and allow me to pull the insights from the previous runs into a larger
picture, with the liminal information, perhaps, more accessible.
I found it easier to retain the pictures and impressions of the coresearchers by
keeping the files in the order that I interviewed them, especially since the pseudonyms
were the only identifying labels, aside from my code number, which had the date of the
interview and the interview sequence in the study. The primary transcriptionist did not
work in the same order and I did not, therefore, work on them sequentially parallel to the
way I interviewed them.
I opted to analyze the material manually rather than utilize a software program. I
felt a software program was more impersonal and would not provide the same energetics
that I would receive by immersing myself in the data. Working with the material
manually provided a more intimate quality, a deeper immersion into this rich material. It
also followed the intent of organic inquiry that of approaching research as a sacred
endeavor.
I began to see themes and patterns while conducting the interviews; confirmation
and additional themes emerged while listening to the interviews. I made notes in the
transcript margins during the thinking and feeling/somatic runs, and wrote them on 4x6
inch cards. I reviewed the transcripts and notes from the runs to identify and separate the
experiences, quotes, and themes and patterns for each interview.
I waited until I had the essential information from the interviews organized before
listening to each interview intuitively. I then wrote the narrative stories.
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Integration
Integration involved final analysis of the information and presentation of findings
in the form of narrative summaries or stories. The final assessment focused on a
significant goal of organic inquiry: assessing the impact of the research experience to
determine if any impact or transformation in the coresearchers, readers, and researcher
occurred.
Analysis of datafinal. I integrated the knowledge and impressions received so
that the narrative stories incorporated the multidimensional and holistic experience of the
coresearcher, and hopefully would positively affect the reader.
5. I distilled and created a narrative story from each interview.
6. Coresearchers reviewed their individual stories, which provided confirmation
and validation of the information. They also suggested their insights as well.
Presentation of findings. The intent of the presentation is to convey both
informative changes of mind and transformative changes of heart. An organic study aims
at offering these storiesso that the readermay participate in an experience of change
(Clements, 2002, p. 116).
Stories are created for three purposes: (a) Inductionstories that are used to
stimulate, to induce, a spiritual or liminal experience; (b) Integrationstories that help to
make sense and understand the experience; and (c) Invitationstories that create a desire
in the reader to participate in the storys experience, both liminally and cognitively, to
repeat the experience of the researcher, but within the context of the readers own
experience (Clements, 2002, p. 116).
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7. I integrated the coresearchers experiences from the interviews to create one
or more overall and discussion stories.
Assessing impact. Coresearchers were asked to write a brief summary of their
experiences in this study at the studys conclusion, particularly in regard to how their
participation affected them.
8. Coresearchers were asked to comment and validate the material from the
interview that was used in overall and discussion stories.
9. Coresearchers were asked to describe in writing how their participation
affected them. The impact of the study on me, as the researcher, is discussed
in chapter 5.
10. Three initial readers, selected from my personal acquaintances and not
associated with the Integral Yoga community, were asked to read a few of the
stories and comment on how it affected them. The transcribers were asked to
comment on their experiences as well. Their edited comments are included in
the studys results.
Summary
Using the transpersonal research method of organic inquiry, the purpose of this
study was to evaluate, analyze, integrate, and transmit the experiences of Integral Yoga
practitioners in the higher planes of consciousness. The organic inquiry process of
preparation, inspiration, and integration was used on multiple levels throughout the study.
Fourteen long-term practitioners of Integral Yoga were interviewed and asked to describe
their profound, significant experiences. The interviews were semistructured and lasted 1-
2 hours. The interviews were transcribed and analyzed for significant themes, patterns,
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and wording, following the guidelines of organic inquiry (Clements, 2002; Curry &
Wells, 2003-2004) and recommendations made in analyzing qualitative data (Miles &
Huberman, 1994; Tesch, 1990). I created stories from their experiences, along with
overall summary stories on a common theme or pattern. Coresearchers were asked how
their participation in the study affected them. Three readers reported their experiences
from reading some of the stories. The impact of the studys experiences on the
coresearchers, the readers, and me formed the basis of assessment for determining
transformation, a major goal in organic inquiry.
The studys findings reflect, to a significant extent, an accurate sense of the
coresearchers experiences. Construct validity and the uniqueness of the individuals and
their journeys may defy replication of findings but the process to acquire such findings
can be replicated.
The transpersonal research method of organic inquiry is not only concerned with
contributing to the pool of intellectual and professional knowledge, a common goal in
academic research, but its emphasis on creating an opportunity that positively transforms
anyone who participates is also a goal richly suited for making a contribution to human
consciousness evolution. Organic inquiry uses nontraditional approaches to research
study; it contributes new sources using different venues for acquiring the knowledge and
understanding of the topics studied. The topics are often spiritual, transpersonal, and
unconventional, creating new and unexplored areas of study. The uniqueness of the
researcher and coresearchers experiences also expands both knowledge and
understanding of the human being within the context of topics explored in organic
inquiry.
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Organic inquiry researchers represent a new breed of explorers. They utilize
nonordinary sources of knowledge. They seek dimensions of information that few realize
much less acknowledge. The topics and subjects of study are important in understanding
complex layers of humanity.
Organic inquiry has strong similarities to elements found in the shamans journey.
For example, both experiences involve preparation, often as a ritual. They include
traveling to liminal realms for inspiration and to receive answers. Both require a return
from those realms to integrate the experience and knowledge received prior to sharing
with others. However, it does not embody the characteristics specific to particular
indigenous cultures, thus allowing a generic process to develop. In a way, it describes
what Jrgen Kremer (1995) advocated, understanding through ones own spiritual
indigenous roots, but in this case indigenous translates to individually innate.



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CHAPTER 4: RESULTS
Integrating the data to produce the findings in this chapter required another layer
of preparation, illumination and integration. Preparation involved reviewing the notes
taken while listening to the interviews. I gathered information each time I listened to the
interviews, finding the themes and patterns emerging. Illumination came throughout the
analysis process, ranging from sudden insights to an outline evolving from repeated
immersion in the material. Integration resulted in the findings presented in this chapter.
Up to this point you, the reader, have been preparing for this chapter by following
my journey. Now begins the opportunity for you to begin your own journey with the
material. This chapter represents my integration but your illumination. The next chapter
represents your opportunity to integrate my findings. The coresearchers stories
(Appendix G) allow you to interact with their experiences in your own way and,
hopefully, come away somehow changed.
Analysis of Findings
I knew that I am first a mental/thinking individual, with a sentient ability second,
in working with information. I knew that listening to the interview first from the
mental/thinking perspective would remove a major layer of analysis for me and allow the
feeling/sensation and intuitive layers to be less contaminated by it. My decision to
conduct the analysis is this sequence proved accurate.
I realized as well, during the first interview I listened to with the focus on somatic
sensations, that my feeling sensations were connected but separate in perceiving
information. It seemed easier and more expedient to combine them. I held off the
intuitive review of the interviews for some time. I brought interviews to this point before
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starting the first intuitive review. I realized, eventually, that I intended to wait until I was
ready to start writing the story before listening with my intuitive sense. I somehow felt
that doing it this way would help me to write the story. I reviewed all notes from the
previous runs, my anecdotal notes from the original interview, and my deconstruction
notes. I listened to the interview one last time from the intuitive focus and then drafted
the narrative story, hoping the intuitive focus would trigger the content and flow of the
story, which it did for the first interview. But I discovered, in listening to subsequent
interviews, that the intuitive information I received was not related to that particular
interview; it concerned the entire study. I stopped the intuitive run after the tenth
interview, when I made this discovery. I also realized that I had used intuition throughout
the study.
The experiences and ongoing spiritual journeys (sadhanas) of each coresearcher
harbor the most potential for impacting you, the reader. Each time I listened to the
interviews I returned to the energies present in our original dialogue. And each time I felt
a little different after listening to them. Each time I felt enriched. Each time felt special.
My intent is to somehow convey the same to you. I placed their stories in a separate
section, Appendix G, in order to concentrate the essence of this study in a smaller packet
that you can retrieve easily, or read solely, if that is your choice.
Schema Used for Analysis
I began noticing patterns and themes during the interview process. Those patterns
and themes remained present while listening to the interviews and reviewing the
transcripts. New patterns and themes emerged as the transcripts were deconstructed into 4
sets of data: Themes and Patterns, Experiences, significant Quotes that would aid in
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creating the narrative, and Planes of consciousness the coresearchers discussed. I printed
each of the sections out on different colored paper and separated them by these categories
before final analysis. I used 4 x 6 inch cards as well, each one having a pattern or theme I
had identified, to keep track of the coresearchers information in an outline form, as an
overall picture.
I identified keywords during the deconstruction process and created a template
list. Using the Find function on the Word software program toolbar, I identified the
frequency that the word appeared in the transcript. Keywords are listed for each interview
in the section introducing the coresearchers below, with the frequency in parentheses.
The template keywords were: bliss, energy, insights, love, force desire, divine, limitation,
planes, challenges, intuition/intuitive, cell, light, vibration, physical, vital, mental,
aspiration, surrender, intent, dark, concrete, realms, supramental, overmind, realms,
ascent, descent, presence, intense.
Coresearchers and Pioneer-Explorers
From the beginning of the interview process I felt awed and honored to work with
these individuals. I began seeing them as pioneer-explorers as well as coresearchers.
Pioneer-explorer conveys the true sense I have about them. They were courageous in
becoming involved in this study; their experiences are spiritual and sacred to them. And
they continue to push the envelope in exploring the consciousness path to the Divine that
Sri Aurobindo and the Mother pursued.
A majority of the coresearchers were male, numbering 10, along with 4 females.
The years of involvement in Integral Yoga ranged from 10 to 35 years; 9 had at least 30
years. Eleven coresearchers lived in the continental United States.
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I struggled throughout the implementation, analysis, and presentation of findings
to maintain the balance between protecting each pioneer-explorers privacy, fiercely at
times, in my mindmaintaining their anonymity in the small Integral Yoga
communityand my desire for you, the reader to become acquainted with them, to know
them in a personal way so that what they impart becomes meaningful. It is a paradoxical
situation; I want you to know them but I do not want you to know who they are. My
attempt below is to make them real for you.
1119
His peaceful and serene countenance is evident after 30 years of experience in
Integral Yoga and the lessons he has encountered in working with others, led always by
his intuition to the next crossroad in his life. A graduate student suggested he look into
Sri Aurobindo. He was teaching Eastern studies at the time and, Having read a lot of
other theology and philosophy, [they] paled next to Sri Aurobindo. He had some initial
reticence regarding the Mother but embraced the concept of Auroville. Important books
include Sri Aurobindo or The Adventures in Consciousness (his first book), The Agenda,
Savitri, The Life Divine, The Synthesis of Yoga, and Letters on Yoga. 1119s spiritual
practice and previous training over the years included Western theology, Zen Buddhism,
and other spiritual teachers. He has spent the last few years working with another
spiritual teacher and honing his artistic skills. Aspiration, consent and consecration are
important aspects of his sadhana. His current sadhana also includes meditation, prayer,
and involvement with spiritually oriented groups. Keywords: Knowing (6), letting go (6),
intuitive (5), death (5), aspiration (4), consent (4), consecration (4), crossroads (3).
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Akroyd
Serene and quiet, his experiences over 25 years in Integral Yoga continue to
unveil new horizons for him. Akroyd was introduced to Integral Yoga through
individuals from the ashram and Auroville while attending school in India.
My whole adulthood and spirituality was completely formed by The Agenda. I felt
a really strong affinity to that aspect of the sadhana, which is really Mothers
exploration of the physical. Mother's voice is at its most intimate in The Agenda;
it was the intimacy of Mother voice which first drew me in.

He is also drawn to The Synthesis of Yoga, Savitri, and Satprems books. His sadhana
began with Hatha Yoga and then progressed to mantra meditation, walking meditation,
and paying attention to his dreams. He has experiences in both dreams and meditations.
His sadhana has had a positive impact on his artistic work. Keywords: Physical (43),
strong (24), spontaneous (17), impact (9), natural (7), energy (10), force (6), light (7),
mental (8), presence (6), dark (6).
Annie Dutts
A vital, articulate sadhak or student of yoga (Pandit, 1992, p. 222), with over 30
years Integral Yoga involvement, Annie has accumulated wisdom based on profound
experiences both in the inner/higher realms and the earthly plane. Annie considers herself
a mystic. She was interested in religion and mysticism as a teenager but was also later
influenced by existentialism and atheism. One day I had the typical conversion
experience of God everywhere and I instantly knew that atheism was not correct. And I
had started having mystical experiences and reading everything that I could Eastern. Her
introduction to Integral Yoga occurred through a lecturer from the Pondicherry ashram.
As soon as I heard the talk, POW, that was it, instant. I knew that was my path for life. It
was just obvious. Her primary training was meditation. Her current sadhana still
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includes meditation but is focused on integrating the spiritual with the physical, healing
the physical, and cellular transformation. Annie has read everything that the ashram ever
printed at one phase in her life. She is specifically drawn to Savitri and The Agenda.
Keywords: Inner (36), Divine (33), outer (16), descent (16), bliss (15), love (12), mental
(12), peace (11), absolutely (9), light (9), physical (9), force (9), planes (8), supramental
(7), vital (7), will (7), focus (7), surrender (6), realms (5).
Cathleen Carmichel
Cathleens involvement in Integral Yoga began over 35 years ago while traveling
in India. A series of synchronous events occurred, starting with attending a lecture, which
led to being invited to the Integral Yoga ashram in northern India, and discovering a link
between a relative and the creation of Auroville. Her curiosity about Integral Yoga and
Auroville led her to reading a great deal at the ashram library and deciding to visit the
ashram in Pondicherry and Auroville, where she experienced darshans with the Mother.
Her spiritual practices consist of Hatha Yoga, being mindful in every activity of life,
meditation, contemplation, and singing. She works on integrating intention and aspiration
into physical life. Karma yoga, working and being of service, is a strong part of her
sadhana. Keywords: Love (25), intuition (19), grounded/grounding (13), energy (13),
light (9), force (7), aspiration (7), challenges (6), vibration (6), intention (6).
Devotee
A long-term practitioner for over 30 years, Devotee was introduced to Integral
Yoga through an acquaintance while in college. I had been seeking for a year and a half,
getting interested in spirituality, a search for who I was and the meaning of life, an inner
searching. He started reading Sri Aurobindos books and within a month I felt this was
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my spiritual path. He was interested in Zen Buddhism prior to his exposure to Integral
Yoga. Reading is a strong part of his sadhana, as well as his intention that his daily work
be an offering to the Divine. Hes drawn to The Synthesis of Yoga and Letters on Yoga,
but he reads Savitri daily. Its considered a mantra. It has a certain power when read out
loud. He also meditates daily. Keywords: Divine, (26), love (21), light (16), intense (13),
force (10), desire (8), vital (5).
Gopal
A sadhak for over 30 years, he began his journey by attending talks given by Dr.
Chaudhuri and reading. Gopal started reading Savitri (Aurobindo, 1950) twice a day and
meditating. He also worked with other practices, such as dreamwork, self-hypnosis,
Western therapies and bodywork, as well as taking classes on developing intuition. He
has had significant experiences that have taken years to integrate. His current sadhana is
now focused on cellular transformation. He feels his spiritual practice improves with his
visits to Pondicherry.
Pondicherry ashram is ideal for me to bring about these changes. The atmosphere
is magnificent. You can sustain what you gain day after day. If youre in the
work-a-day world youve got so many interruptions. Thats the beauty of it.

Keywords: Physical (19), cell (14), physical (10), intense (10), vibration (10), energy (9),
light (9), bliss (9), intuitive (9), force (8), surrender (6).
Janaka
A mystic soul, he is trying to live life in society and trying to reconcile his desire
to pursue a spiritual path with the reality of making a living and raising a family. He also
possesses abilities as a leader and a desire to be of service to humanity. His involvement
with Integral Yoga began over 30 years ago. Prior to learning about Integral Yoga,
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Janaka had been involved in some psychic development stuff. It was the nearest thing I
could imagine to any kind of spirituality, although it was very much occultism at the
time. An individual whose life was transformed by the Mother asked him to facilitate
setting up a yoga class, which never occurred. But Janaka began attending other yoga
classes given by this individual and reading.
When I [began reading about Sri Aurobindo and the Mother] I felt like I was
coming home. Everything made so much sense. A lot of it was stuff that I had
thought and the rest of it was stuff that I wish I had thought.

He is drawn especially to Savitri (Aurobindo, 1950). and he often quoted it during
the interview. His sadhana began with reading, then meditating, which has evolved to a
daily practice that also includes contemplation. His life has a strong karma yoga focus, of
work being offered to the Divine. Keywords: Fire (22), true (12), consciousness (12),
power (12), Divine (12), aspiration (11) force (11), descents (11), love (8), light (8),
surrender (7), energy (7), concentration (6), rejection (5).
Lizzie
A quiet but powerful individual, she has maintained a steady faith in the Divine
that has allowed her to weather challenges in her life. She has been involved with Integral
Yoga for over 30 years. Her introduction was through a friend who told her about
Auroville and she knew she had to go. She was discouraged by the lack of desire to
change in the people of her church at the time:
I found myself often arguing with religious people because I just couldnt ever
conceive of a creator who would create this world of such complexity and
multiplicity and variety and then have only one religion. It made no sense to me.

She began attending classes, reading and discussing Savitri (Aurobindo, 1950),
The Life Divine, and The Synthesis of Yoga. All of it spoke to me very concretely. Sri
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Aurobindo just made so much sense to me. Initially, she was cautious of The Mother,
but her later experiences changed her early reticence. Lizzie recently attended a shamanic
training workshop where she realized, This is what weve been doing all along in a
sense. Other training included meditation. Her sadhana now involves meditation, daily
contemplation, and removing the veil separating the spiritual and physical realms.
Keywords: Light (19), challenges (12), awareness (11), energy (10), trust (8), resistance
(8), presence (7), thinness (7), concrete (6), veil (5), Divine (5).
Om Shanti
I grew up in India and I was naturally drawn to spiritual activities. I remember as
a child being more drawn to these kind of activities than my other friends and brothers
and sisters. He continued to seek such experiences after he came to the United States.
He started attending regular meetings of the Integral Yoga center in his town over 20
years ago. He also now visits Pondicherry and Auroville every 3 years. He continues his
involvement with other religious and cultural eventsHindu, Jain, and Hare Krishna
but remains settled in Integral Yoga. His sadhana is based on daily meditations, reciting
mantras and prayers, and active involvement with the Integral Yoga community. He likes
Letters on Yoga and Savitri but he is especially drawn to Essays on the Gita. He
continues with Integral Yoga, Because the philosophy, the affirmative philosophy of Sri
Aurobindo, that the goal of life is not to get out of life but to bring the Divine actually
working in our lives, that resonates with me. Keywords: Divine/divine (30), prayer/pray
(16), philosophy (15), meditation (13), force (9), faith (8), surrender (6), calm (11).
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Pancho
Pancho is another individual with a mystic soul struggling to balance his spiritual
yearning with his everyday life and responsibilities. He has been involved with Integral
Yoga for over 10 years, but his first encounter with Sri Aurobindo was more than 35
years ago. An individual suggested he check out the lectures by Dr. Chaudhuri. A
voracious reader, he started with Savitri, Letters on Yoga, and the The Synthesis of Yoga.
He then proceeded to read everything else on Sri Aurobindo and The Mother. At certain
points in his life, before and after his introduction to Integral Yoga, Pancho explored H.
P. Blavatskys Theosophical Society, Sufism, Christian mysticism, and Rudolph Steiners
Theosophy. Reading remains part of his sadhana, along with spiritual exercises that
strengthen the psychic being and allow peace and higher forces to descend naturally.
Aspiration is a key component. Keywords: Physical (42), presence (38), concrete (33),
supramental (30), force (28), aspiration (23), descents (18), Divine (17), intense (16),
vital (14), surrender (9), bliss (9), ascents (7), energy (5).
Rishi
Rishi is a quiet individual with the soul of a mystic who is trying to reconcile his
outer and inner beings. Rishis entry into Integral Yoga was through books. He desired to
improve his mental skills, which led him to an awareness of spiritual traditions. He found
only Sri Aurobindos writings could be applied or used in his daily life. Integral Yoga
impacted him more than anything else, especially its applicability to his daily life. Rishi
has been practicing 11 years.
Important books for Rishi are: Synthesis of Yoga, Life Divine, Letters on Yoga,
Mothers Questions & Answers. Other spiritual training includes meditation and
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meditation retreats. His father used to take him to spiritual places and lectures by other
spiritual gurus. Rishi brought up the issue of talking about these experiences, as it is
considered an unwritten taboo.It is a very unusual thing to talk about to anyone else who
is not familiar with it; I cannot say that I have some force working. Rishis spiritual
practice incorporates meditation (more in the past), aspiration, a desire to learn, and
asking for intutitive guidance on everyday decisions. Keywords: Force(s) (27), love (26),
desire (25), planes (24), insights (21), Divine (19), challenges (18), quiet (17), limitation
(12), energy (10), intuition (9).
Rose
Rose came to Integral Yoga over 15 years ago, initially through Sri Chimnoy (a
disciple of Sri Aurobindo), while searching for a meditation group. She grew
disillusioned with the discrepancy between the teachings and the actual behavior of its
members. Rose happened to come across one of Satprems books and it left a very deep
imprint upon her. She left the movement and has been a solitary practitioner of Integral
Yoga for the most part since then. Her primary sadhana practice is meditation and
contemplation but she considers reading, maintaining a healthy diet and lifestyle, shadow
work (derived from Ken Wilbers works), and volunteer work part of her spiritual
practice. She continues to work on herself. The real important work cant be seen by
[the] mainstream. Rose has always felt different, that she does not quite fit in anywhere,
but is not bothered by it as much now. She feels a strong affinity towards the Mother.
Keywords: Meditate/meditation (17), light (14), grateful (12), energy (11), insights (7),
opposites (6).
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Running Water
A spiritual warrior, he feels a responsibility for the nonmainstream groups of
humanity who are struggling with life issues. He battles nonlight forces in the inconscient
realms for them. His own physical challenges, and finding solutions to them, form a
major impetus to his spiritual journey. His involvement with Integral Yoga spans over 30
years. Running Water had spiritual training in other traditions before Integral Yoga: early
Christianity, Sufism, and Tibetan Buddhism.
I believe I was led through this process by the Mother. I read about people being
interviewed by her, that she sent people away from the ashram to study with other
teachers. Almost like their being needed to study with different gurus before
theyre ready for this. And this is a wonderful thing to me. So that was one of the
early things that said theyre not a cult, theyre a true spirituality. Shes giving
people what they need, shes kicking them out if they need to be kicked out, shes
telling them not to come here because it wont be easy. But she makes it clear that
if we came to her we were called and that we came into this life as souls to take
on the work. And, its a work that resonates to my core. Everything about my life
has this resonance, that this human species needs to evolve. It needs to develop
into what it truly can become because its really not too human yet.

His sadhana consists of reading Savitri (Aurobindo, 1950), walking meditation,
meditating while gardening, and working in the inconscient realms during sleep, what he
calls conscious dreaming. Intention and aspiration are important keys. He is drawn to
Savitri and Sri Aurobindo or The Adventures in Consciousness. Keywords: Energy (59),
physical (46), force 42), real, (18), Divine (17), love (16), surrender (12), mental (9),
concrete (8), dark (7), presence (7), realms (7) vital (7).
Sphinx
Introduced to Integral Yoga over 30 years ago, he began as a restless soul who
wanted to be more than he saw himself becoming. His early spiritual practice was so
focused that he concentrated too much on the inner planes to the exclusion of an outer
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life, which he eventually returned to in order to earn a living. There were times when he
would think about giving up Integral Yoga and each time he had an experience that
brought him back to it. He has found a way to integrate his spiritual practice with his life
and his work is focused on service to the Mothers vision. Keywords: Divine (32), love
(20), willpower (15), concentration (12), intensity (12), mental (10), imagination (8), will
(7), quiet (6), aspiration (7).
Themes and Patterns
I immersed myself in the interviews, listening to them 3 or 4 times, taking notes,
receiving insights, and noticing patterns. Three major themes developed, with
accompanying patterns, during analysis: (a) Each sadhana is unique, just like everyone
elses; (b) significant experiences account for half of the journeythe other half is
integration; and (c) we never get off the spiritual pathsadhana is a lifelong process.
Theme: Each Sadhana is Unique, Just Like Everyone Elses
Each coresearchers journey was unique and their experiences helped to move
them along on their spiritual path. Yet there were commonalities and patterns in their
journeys that united them in a single purpose for Integral Yoga: Changing humanity by
changing themselves, by concentrating on what they were becoming and being more than
doing, and being of service the Divine.
Pattern: Individual sadhanas. A seemingly innocuous suggestion from a friend or
acquaintance to look into Integral Yoga served as the introduction for a majority of
coresearchers. Some found themselves drawn to a lecture by a follower. Others were
introduced through books. Most had a quality of synchronicity, and perhaps fate. 1119
and Lizzie heard about Auroville and went to a talk on it. Cathleen, Annie, Rose, and
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Gopal went to discussions or presentations by Sri Aurobindos disciples. Akroyd and
Devotee saw acquaintances pictures and books. Running Water was led to Sri
Aurobindos bookstore. Rishis search for self-improvement led him to Sri Aurobindos
literature.
All of them solidified their connection from reading Sri Aurobindos and the
Mothers works. Significant works include Savitri, The Agenda, The Synthesis of Yoga,
Letters on Yoga, Satprems books, and The Life Divine.
Integral Yoga does not have a specific system or training, and the coresearchers
spiritual training reflects this freedom in the eclecticism of their practices. Training in
other spiritual disciplines included Sufism, Zen and Tibetan Buddhism, Christian
mysticism, and Hindu traditions. Coresearchers learned varied forms of meditation
practice and studied with other spiritual teachers. Hatha Yoga, dance, and singing
comprised the physical embodiment of their spirituality. And Western practices included
dreamwork, intuition, imagery, self-hypnosis, shamanic and psychotherapeutic training.
Some, Om Shanti and 1119 for instance, continue to participate in other spiritual
activities and do not see a conflict with Integral Yoga.
Sadhanas are as unique as the individual. Coresearchers continue to seek what
works best for them that allows the Divine a greater presence in their daily lives. Reading
remains the strongest practice, followed by some form of meditation or contemplation.
Prayer, recitation of mantra, working with dreams, hatha yoga, and mindfulness activities
are strongly present in many practices. Walking meditation is important to a few.
Volunteer work and work related to Integral Yoga were an important aspect of sadhana to
Cathleen, Sphinx, Rose, and Running Water, for instance. Rishi categorized his sadhana
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as a natural progression of knowledge, viewing the higher planes of consciousness as
different stage[s] of development.
Pattern: Identification with Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. Many coresearchers
felt a greater affinity to either Sri Aurobindo or the Mother. Others felt no difference.
And Satprem had a strong influence on several sadhaks. I gleaned this from how often a
coresearcher would talk about Sri Aurobindo or the Mother, how often their encounters
or experiences included either, or which books strongly influenced them. Rishi, Lizzie,
1119, Janaka, Cathleen, Om Shanti, Sphinx, and Devotee showed equanimity in our
conversations regarding Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. Gopal, Running Water, and Rose
tended to speak of a greater affinity in working with the Mother. Annie and Pancho
showed a stronger pull to Sri Aurobindo, although Pancho is seeking more experiences
with the Mother. And Satprem had a strong influence on Annie, Akroyd, 1119, and Rose.
There appears to be a difference between how Sri Aurobindo and the Mother
worked. The Mothers influence was more personal, related to the psychic being and
psychicisation, and appeared often when coresearchers were in desperate need. The
Mother is a strong and important force in their lives. She interacts, comforts, protects, and
surrounds them with Divine love. Sri Aurobindos influence was of a more intellectual
nature, offering advice and redirecting them when needed.
Other forms of yogajnana, raja, karma, bhakti, and hathaappear throughout
the coresearchers sadhanas in varying degrees. Some practices possessed a strong
influence of karma or service; others showed a predominance of bhakti. Most had more
than one form.
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Pattern: Dynamic of intention, will, aspiration, and surrender. The strong key to
success in ones sadhana is the combined use of intention, aspiration, will, and surrender.
Coresearchers sadhanas emphasized one or two. Certain ones were more important to
them. Rishis desire to know about everything, his aspiration, is strong and his practice of
awaiting insights, surrender, is consistent. Running Waters emphasis is to offer,
consecrate, and to surrender to the Mother. For Gopal it is being open, aspiring, but
surrender is strongest. Sphinx believes will is most important in Integral Yoga; for 1119
it is consent and consecrate. Janaka interprets the process as one of aspiration, rejection
(of what is not true), and surrender. All coresearchers felt that surrender was an important
part of their sadhana. In listening to Running Waters interview, I began to see these
faculties more as forces that operated from the individual out to the Divine.
Theme: Significant Experiences Account for Half of the Journey; the Other Half is
Integration

All of their experiences impacted them in some way to a greater or lesser degree.
Each one then worked on integrating the experiences into their lives, determining the
reason for the experience, attempting to hold onto the feelings it produced or reproduce it,
or using their new awareness to change the way they viewed and lived life. The
experience and its integration were equally important. Sometimes the experience simply
validated to them that they were on the right path. Other times it maintained them on the
path despite opposition in their waking lives or prolonged periods of time between
experiences. These experiences also comforted those who felt the isolation of their
chosen Integral Yoga path. A few sought out others to help them make sense of their
experiences. I think it also helped them to validate their experiences as meaningful.
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Pattern: States of consciousness with experiences. Experiences occurred in sleep,
meditation, and waking states. Coresearchers could wake up during experiences in their
dreams, become aware of the experience, and then go back into it. Running Water
became aware that he could actively move in the realms of his experiences, calling it
conscious dreaming. Pancho would have experiences while reading. Some found
walking meditation and running elicited experiences.
Others simply focused their awareness and the spiritual world was there for them.
Lizzie described the dual awareness as the lightness of spirit working with the
concreteness of the body. Its an awareness of them both there at the same time. Akroyd
described it as the awareness of the outside and inside worlds at the same time. 1119
called it a split consciousness, or an observer consciousness. Devotee feels the
Divine presence around him and it only requires a slight shift in attention to unite with it.
For Rose, it only takes an awareness and focus to feel the Mothers presence.
Pattern: Ascending. A majority of the coresearchers related an experience that
carried a sense of ascension, or a dual process of ascension and descension. Several
carried the quality of an out-of-the-body experience. They simply left their bodies and
floated above whatever they were observing below. Rishi described it as being on the 12
th

floor of a building and looking down. The rising of kundalini energy through the chakras
of the body was another common experience. Gopal believed his experience was of the
subtle physical body. The experience of ascending up out of the body into higher planes
was rare and the term confused some because they could not relate to it. Their
descriptions used terms such as bliss, light, joy, floating, and a widening above the head
of oneself. Pancho and 1119 associated aspiration as a path of ascension, aspiration
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naturally takes you there (Pancho). Annie related having more ascent experiences than
descent. Devotee, 1119, Pancho, Lizzie, and Rose viewed ascent as the first part of a two-
step process, connecting ascent with descent.
Pattern: Descending. Descent experiences of force, light, and energy were
common. Janaka and 1119 noticed humming or ringing in their ears in these experiences.
And whatever was felt was either very strong, very forceful, or it carried the sensation of
being showered. It was almost too hard to bear for some. Pancho asked the force to stop
when it became too uncomfortable, which it did. Descents of energy and force occurred
in group situations as well; Janaka relates two experiences, saying, If you could even
imagine going against it and trying to reject it, you would be swimming up from a mine
shaft, through dense water, but who would want to? Another descriptive term used was
the feeling of being enveloped in silence. Other descriptors included being ravished by
bliss (Annie), blissful energy (Running Water), a feeling outside time and space
(1119), and a spiritual waterfall, like a firefall (Janaka). A few had experiences of
being enveloped in a column of light.
Pattern: Psychic being. Experiences of the psychic being were powerful. The
Mother was often associated with these experiences by her presence, or their sense of her
presence, and her force. Aspiration and surrender seemed to be the catalysts for psychic
being experiences. The coresearchers knew the psychic being was involved in their
experiences because they involved the center of their chest and the heart area, where the
psychic being is located. Shakti, the feminine force of the universal, seemed to be
associated with such experiences. Gopal described it as having the quality of sweetness,
a psychic presence of the Mother. And Pancho knew during his psychicisation
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experience that he was feeling his own souls presence, not Sri Aurobindo or Christ or the
Mother. Janaka after sensing his psychic being becoming more active over time, said,
All of sudden it wasnt me seeking the psychic being, I was the psychic being, and an
identity was forged. And for some the experience carried a soft quality rather than an
energetic force. Coresearchers described feelings of being purified and cleansed, and of
harmony, calmness and peace. Yet the aspiration, the sending out of prayers, the intention
and surrender involved in opening to the Divine carried the characteristics of the agni, the
mystic fire.
Pattern: Encounters with nonlight forces. Several coresearchers were aware of the
presence of forces committed to preventing Divine light from entering the earth plane. Sri
Aurobindo was aware of their presence around the ashram, waiting for a chance to
influence the sadhaks. He also understood that the second World War was a strong push
by dark forces, which he called asuric forces, to assert control of the planet (Nirodbaran,
1973; Purani, n.d.; Roy, 1984; Satprem, 1970, 1980). Akroyd experienced them in a town
in India. Cathleen knows of their presence from her work with clients, calling them
energy vampires. Gopal encountered them in spiritual environments. Pancho and Annie
encountered them during hallucinogenic drug-induced experiences. And Running Water
actively engages and battles them during sleep, during conscious dreaming, seeing it as
his work for the Mother.
Pattern: Planes. When I started this research, my primary interest was
experiences of higher planes of consciousness, the planes above higher mind in Integral
Yoga. My interest has changed and expanded as a result of my findings. Six
coresearchers related experiences in these higher planes. Others did not tell me of these
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kinds of experiences, and still others had experiences in places other than the ones
considered higher planes of consciousness. Coresearchers labeled the planes they
experienced, often finding similar descriptions in the Integral Yoga literature or
comparing their experiences with another sadhak who reported similar experiences. The
most frequently reported experiences were of the intuitive mind planeRishi, Akroyd,
and 1119. Rishi and Annie reported experiences in overmind. Pancho and Annie reported
experiences in the supramental consciousness. Devotee believed he experienced the plane
of sachchidananda. Sphinx felt a superhuman power enter him. And Running Water is
very clear that he works in the subliminal and inconscient realms, which I believe are
back doors to higher planes.
Akroyd, Devotee, Lizzie, 1119, and Rose related the ability to apprehend the thin
veil between the physical and spiritual realms by simply focusing their awareness on it. I
had the sense that they could coexist in both worlds simultaneously, and were delighted
to do it. They actively work to stabilize the spiritual side more permanently into the
physical world.
Several of the coresearchers related the experience of being inside a column of
light. Annie had the experiences of what she called the Golden X and surhomme,
which do not necessarily fit into the descriptions in the Integral Yoga literature on higher
planes. Gopal and Annie had experiences of what they described as the subtle physical.
Annie also called it:
The awakened divinity of the physical, of matter waking up to the Divine. And
that I tell you, you know all these spectacular experiences that I have been talking
about in the inner and higher pale in comparison to matter waking up to the
Divine. Because it is absolutely solid, absolutely concrete, absolutely holy, peace,
its just unbelievable.

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Gopal related an experience of the supramental in the physical body, which he found in
the literature but is not ascribed to a distinct plane. Sri Aurobindo said the higher planes
were not distinct and real or actual locations in space, only a correlation in the
consciousness (Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1155). Each is merely a space in a
multidimensional frame of reference known as consciousness.
Theme: We Never Get Off the Spiritual Path; Sadhana is a Lifelong Process
I realized this theme during the interview process and it became clearer when I
created the coresearchers stories. Each interview addressed issues and challenges they
were currently dealing with, sometimes years after an experience. None voiced being
done. All voiced the intent to continue moving forward on their journeys, working on
their sadhanas, and wondering how to help humanity and how the Divine wanted them to
do it. As Lizzie put it, Theres no going back, you know too much, you cant go back to
an ordinary lifeTheres no endpoint in spiritual development, is there?
Pattern: Challenges. Several issues emerged that coresearchers currently faced or
continued to resolve in their sadhanas. Some were the result of their spiritual progress.
One issue was how to bring the spiritual into the physical world. Cathleen said,
Transformation is physical work. It isnt ethereal or abstract, it needs to be real in the
body. Another challenge was finding new or additional ways to serve humankind, how
to be of service. All expressed an aspiration and intent to progress spiritually, seeking a
greater involvement and presence of the Divine in their lives. A few expressed an
urgency to continue the evolutionary work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mothercellular
transformation to a spiritual being.
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I mentioned earlier that some coresearchers seem to live a dual reality between
the physical and spiritual worlds, between the outside and inside worlds. The veil
between the two realms is thin enough that simple focus and awareness reveals them. But
it remains a challenge for them to operate in a dual consciousness for longer periods of
time, working to blend them and stabilize that connection.
Some issues continued to periodically appear despite earlier resolution. A major
difficulty was how to handle desires. While the ego might occasionally interfere with
their experiences, requiring simply an awareness of its intrusion, the more frequent and
perhaps hardest problem to resolve permanently for some coresearchers was sexual
desire. The preferred behavior, enforced in the ashrams, is abstinence of sex, a rule of
asceticism found in spiritual traditions. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother did not insist on
sexual abstinence but felt it would assist ones spiritual progress. Some coresearchers did
not have a problem choosing abstinence, called brahmacharya. Others chose not to
participate and continued meaningful physical relationships. And others continue to
grapple with the issue, unable to resolve it permanently or encountering situations that
made them revisit their decision.
And others had lifelong concerns that had not been completely resolved. The most
significant issue in this category was the conflict between wanting to pursue a spiritual
life only and having the obligations of being in a marriage or partnership, raising a
family, earning a living, and relating to people not pursuing a spiritual path. Carolyn
Myss used the term, mystics without monasteries (Myss, 1987). It has been hard to find
a balance, to feel at peace with their choices. Most of the spouses and partners were not
involved in Integral Yoga. Some provided coresearchers with a stability that allowed
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them to pursue their spiritual growth. Conflict arose in some coresearchers lives when
the partners resented their involvement in Integral Yoga and forced them to make
choices.
Pattern: Feeling isolated, not fitting in, involvement in the yoga community.
Another pattern correlating with the previous discussion is feelings of isolation from
families, from others who do not understand being on a spiritual path, and even the
Integral Yoga community. They voiced being unable to share their experiences with
others and feeling misunderstood by others. Some were geographically isolated from an
Integral Yoga community, others felt as if they did not fit in, or that the community was
too narrow-minded and not truly spiritual. However, whether by choice or not, several
voiced that being isolated benefited them a significant degree. They felt they worked out
their sadhana without the interference or influences of other sadhaks. They were not
confined by the limitations of others. Despite their reservations and sense of not fitting in,
these coresearchers felt it important to maintain at least some contact with the Integral
Yoga community because of the importance of the Integral Yogas work for humanity.
They also hope to eventually find a place where they can feel they belong.
Other Findings
I observed a few miscellaneous patterns. One pattern was that a few of the
coresearchers had profound experiences triggered by some sort of crisis or trauma that
led to a significant experience resulting in important changes in their sadhana. And
several coresearchers expressed support for the study, believing it to be a timely
contribution to the Integral Yoga community; that it represented a shift from previous
convention or taboo to talk about ones experiences. They felt it appropriate to change
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that practice and Integral Yogas presence in the world, beyond the community
boundaries. Annie described it as, the post-ashram yoga, because it is yoga in the world.
Its like the material world is going to get a new landlord, the Divine is moving in.
In many of the feeling/somatic runs of listening to the interviews, I experienced
vibrations, humming sensations, and pressure in my body. The pressure sensations
seemed to occur between my eyebrows in the center of my chest. I often went under,
where I was aware of the interview and the voices but not the content because I felt as if I
were somewhere else. I believe there must be an energy in sound, especially when talking
about spiritual subjects within a sacred space. Japa, the exercise of repeating mantra out
loud, is based on this premise.
Impact of Study: Coresearchers
Several coresearchers mentioned that preparing for and participating in the
interview helped them clarify their experiences and gave them an overall picture of their
journey, especially about the progression and path of their sadhana. The interview
questions were helpful, illuminating and beneficial, creating new insights for them. They
expressed support for this study, believing it timely for Integral Yoga and its community.
After reviewing and approving their stories, I asked the coresearchers to tell me
how their participation in the study affected them and 10 replied. Their comments follow:
1119
To tell my story is to put it out there. Oh, am I saying that? Is that really the way it
is? How will it be interpreted? These questions helped me to realize more deeply
who I actually am and what really matters. Participating in this study has opened
some different windows into my soul.

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Akroyd
I found it very interesting to review my sadhana for the past 30 years. Some
dreams that were very important were revisited, and I was able to gain a better
understanding of them in context of my evolving practice. I also began to see
hidden threads passing through my yogic life.

Gopal
As far as the effect on me from the interview, I dont recall anything in particular.
However, recalling the incidents always produces some emotional impact, some
more than others.

Lizzie
This has been a great experience for me. It was interesting to see the broad view
of my life, spiritually, and I think it probably helped me identify that journey as
my prime motivator in life. It might not have been as easy to recognize had I not
gone through it all with you. Thank you.

Om Shanti
I benefited by participating in the study. It made me reflect on what Integral Yoga
means to me and how it may have changed me. Thanks for raising perceptive
questions.

Pancho
This interview penetrated to a reach that is rare in my experience. In it I inhabited
some of the profounder peaks of this personal human journey; those experiences
that have touched me, that I will carry on beyond all this, in my soul. I need to say
it was also very validating, by virtue of the interaction from this interviewer, who
helped me better understand myself as a mystic soul attempting to live [and] be
motivated from inner depths. I feel it may be necessary for some of us to break
that age-old proscription, wise and necessary in the past, against such sharing
putting forward ones profoundest experiences, rather than always keeping silent
about themso that there can be more mutuality in what is moving us all forward
to something beyond the mind, into a future we have felt not only before us, but in
us, in many more of us than we yet know.

Rishi
This had been my first time talking so openly about my intimate spiritual
experiences to someone. I learned two things from this: (a) I need to improve my
English so that I can properly express my spiritual aspirations and experiences
and (b) I realized from that day onwards there is no reason for me to hide my love
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for God from anybody (I found out that people do really like talking about the
deeper aspects of life).

Rose
Im very grateful for the deep conversation we had; you telling me that there are
some more Integral Workers out there. I mean I knew, but hearing it from you
made it so much more real for me. Which resulted in a shift. A clear break with
the frequent searching in the past for other familiar souls to a very stable
recognition of: this is my work, Im guided, and Im meant to be in this place.
This acceptance was there before in my mind, but now it permeated through many
more layers inside of me. After all it was an important confirmation of my work.
Yet it brought me to a simple understanding on many layers: Thats my work,
dont fuss, dont ponder over it, just get on with it.

Running Water
Participation in this study has affected this being in several ways. As is typical in
life, a relatedness from one action touches another aspect and that yet another
and given ones capacity and receptivity yet more may grow toward blossoming.
To begin with this study, I have been asked to interact using technical awareness,
software and skills, which require an intellectual growth. Subsequently I find
myself engaged in several more exchanges of an academic and intellectual
integration of insights garnered by me during this lifetime. Which touches also, a
new self-appreciation of the work and explorations and developments now
beginning to enter a more mature stage, possibly. Expressed as a horticulturist, I
have also gained a deeper appreciation of humbleness and the need of it to trim
the wild growth of ego...but to remember that one can call and ask for interaction
and help toward a specific goal...that little is accomplished in a vacuum if
anything. I am also reminded of how much is yet to be planted sprouted and
nurtured to realized fruition. I see the most [e]ffect in a stepping up of social
interaction in areas of life development, which interests me with a renewed
zeal. Thank you for creating and including me in this opportunity of growth.

Sphinx
Well, looking at [it] objectively, I am grateful that you weaved my story and that
it will be published anonymously. So I derive some gratification that it will serve
the seekers of light, that it might guide the seekers, perhaps even inspire them on
the path and in that way it may serve the growth of light and consciousness in the
world, and the work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. Giving [an] interview to
you for your research was also a part of my work to serve the Mother. Thank you.

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Presentation of Findings: Stories
Creating Summary Stories and Narrative
The individuals own words create the story (Clements, 2002). After listening to
the first interview intuitively, an outline for each story emerged consisting of three parts:
Sadhana, Experiences, and Current Issues and Challenges. I drafted the story by distilling
the essential informationexperiences and messagesgleaned from the deconstruction
and analysis of each interview.
While previous dissertations using organic inquiry placed the stories within the
results chapter (Cornell, 2006; Curry, 2003; Magnussen, 2004; Murray, 2001), my
intuitive sense remained from the outset to place the stories together in an appendix
(Appendix G). I personally found it difficult to read through the findings in the
aforementioned dissertations because the researchers comments leading up to each story,
and the explanation of findings after each story seemed to interrupt the flow. I wanted to
separate the stories from my findings, placing them together for easy access. I believed it
also created a better flow and was more conducive to fostering reader impact.
My criteria for choosing the material to include in each story rested on positive
answers to the following questions: Is the identity of the coresearcher protected? Would it
help the reader? Would it be interesting to the reader?
I enlisted the help of my second reader to provide initial feedback on the first
story draft. The feedback was positive, helpful, and confirmed my original sense of the
appropriate structure for each story. Additionally, the discussion brought up the idea of
providing an overview of Integral Yoga to the readers, along with some definitions that
would help the reader better understand what they were reading. I included them in the
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readers instruction packets, which also contained consent forms that they signed prior to
reading the stories.
Impact of Study: Readers
I deliberately chose three readers from my acquaintances who I viewed to be on
different points of a spiritual path continuum, giving each a pseudonym. The first reader
(Ariel) was not consciously pursuing a spiritual path and considered herself agnostic. The
second (Beth) was beginning her spiritual journey and attempting to integrate her newly
acquired information with the teachings of mainstream Christianity. The third individual
(Cassie) was very advanced in her spiritual path and a minister trained in a Western
mystery school. All were unfamiliar with Integral Yoga. They read four narrative stories
(Annie, Janaka, Running Water, and 1119) and three overall summary stories (Descent,
Psychic Being, and Nonlight Forces).
I asked them the following questions: What story or stories were you drawn to the
most? What about them appealed to you? How did these stories affect you? What did you
get from them? Do you have any suggestions to make reading these stories better for
future readers?
Ariel
Ariel was drawn most to Janakas story because of his relationship to his spouse.
He felt it was important to share his life with another person, his wife. I believe
our relationships with people are essential to our well-being and reason for being
here. I dont agree with the separating or lack of intimacy that is encouraged with
the yoga.

She had a strong negative reaction to Annies story, which fascinated me knowing that
Ariel knew people like Annie when she was younger.
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The first story, Annie Dutts, turned me off to the topic and the project.
Unfortunately, it was the first story I read [and] it colored my view of everything I
read afterwards. She reminded me of being 20ish and in college. I felt like she
was saying, my acid dealer is better than yours, my trips are better than yours
and every time she told about another experience it felt like she was saying, oh
yeah, I did that but better than you.

Ariel suggested having more information on Integral Yoga and demographic information
on the individuals.
Beth
Beth was drawn to 1119s story, specifically his experiences at age 4 and
meditating along the river.
In the 1119 story, he seems to have known from the age of 4 that there was
something very powerful going on in the universe. When he talks about his
experience of mediating in the foothills along a river...his comments after his
experience are: This anchored me into a truth. So after that I didnt have to
believe in any philosophy or religion or system because I had the actual
experience. Its moving from faith or believing into knowing. I found that
comment to be very WOWprofound. At the end of his interview he states:
Every soul comes in with the abilities needed. A spiritual practice only enhances
what happens in your everyday life. This, Im learning is truedifficult, but
true.

She also found Annies story very interesting, saying that Annie seemed a bit on the
wild side, or perhaps eccentric.
I LOVE her mantra...Every day, in every way, Im getting better and better. I
think that Im going to adopt that as my own. She speaks of being very grateful
for her yoga and her vision. It gives her life meaning and something to
organize her life around. For something that powerful to make her feel that her
life is important and gives her that much meaning...hey, I think thats what life
should be all about.

Beth found that reading the stories gave her validation, that these experiences
really exist. Ive read about them in books and discussed them with other people. And
then I read these stories and now I know that they are real, that they really exist, and they
arent fictitious.
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Cassie
Cassie called her reading experience radical! It provided a glimpse into this
very rarefied world. She had thoughtful and insightful comments about her experience.
They are truly divine humans holding, I know, the earth in precarious
balancesomewhat like Buddhist monks do. Bless them. Each story affected me
and helped me to understand on another level, experiences I have had and has
prepared me for experiences I may have. I read some of the words and said to
myself, So, thats what that was! It was empowering knowing that what I
experienced had a name, and a specific purpose that moves one closer to ones
goal of being divine while still human. And its not just in your imagination.

There is a consistency of experience that runs through all the stories that make
them more real and valid for me. Reading these stories has somehow given me
more confidence in the work I am doing and in owning the experiences I have and
realizing that work or a path has to be walked in order for experiences to occur
and to have awareness and appreciation of them.

I believe that in the appreciation of such experiences one builds the matrix for
such experiences to continue to happen. But one must even know they exist
before one can appreciate their value. And [that] to me is one of the many values
of these stories.

Let me address the stories that I related the least to first: Dark experiences. I
personally have had very few such experiences. However, I am of such a
temperament that I have had to struggle with fear my whole life (according to my
mom I was born that way) and I think that is part of the reason I dont really run
into such situations. I cut them off at the pass, so to speak (it wasnt always like
this. I had to work at it). So, reading of them, reading what others experienced
was amazing. It also helped give me a greater appreciation for those in my circle
that do experience such events. Also encouraging was the point that there is
always a way for such events to be controlled. There is no need to flip out.

The stories made it abundantly clear that achieving divinity while yet still human
is a process and it involves many parts of us; all parts needing to be recognized,
processed and incorporated. As I look over the stories I cant pick anyone that is
better than any other. They all are so real and you can see the clarity and
integrating that is going on as they speak to you.

I got the feeling from reading their stories that anyone that wanted to incorporate
their divinity could do so. I did not get the feeling that any of these people thought
they were all that, that they were unique or special. They sounded like hard
working, dedicated humans wanting with every fiber of their being to incorporate
their divinitynow. These are my kind of people.
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What appealed to me about the stories was that it becomes clear that reaching for
divinity, for these people, was as imperative to them as breathing, food and water
is to the average person. I believe these people would not survive if they did not
continue to reach to incorporate themselves. You can tell from the stories that
these people work on this virtually every moment of every day, even if it is just
through intent, desire and will. I am so impressed. I did not realize that such
people existedaside from the few that I am privileged to know in my personal
life. Being a staunch believer that light workers (people searching for their
souls) are essential to the survival of our planet I am heartened to know what it is
that Integral Yoga purports.

Supplemental Findings
Face-to-Face versus Telephone Interviews
Ten interviews were face-to-face, involving travel on my part to meet them. I was
unable to travel to four of the coresearchers and our interaction was over the telephone.
One of the interviews I conducted face-to-face, Lizzie, had to be repeated over the
telephone when I discovered that my digital voice recorder, which I had set in voice
activation mode, had not picked up either of our voices. Additionally, my backup cassette
recording was too low in volume to decipher any conversation. The gift from this
situation was that Lizzie was able to compare our conversation from our face-to-face
meeting with our telephone meeting and provide feedback.
I think there was a little more energy between you and me in the face-to-face one,
more tangible energy. In terms of my being able to reach into my experiences I
think its very similar. I think in terms of the conversation, it did come out. We
built up a sense of camaraderie that carries over so I really feel like in many
respects, in terms of our conversation, its been very much the same, in terms of
the helpfulness of it. [But] its nice to have you right there (laughter). I think
whenever you have a second conversation things go off on different tangents. [It]
is just the human fun of having someone there. But I think in terms of spiritual, I
dont think it matters. Ive done coaching, in which you have to create a sacred
space for people, and Ive found that it can be as strong over the phone as it can
be in person. You can create that if there is an honoring of not having things
interrupting the conversation, but thats true either way. It can be very powerful,
just as powerful over the phone. I think theres a connection such that if you are
working sincerely on yourself it has a profound impact on all those along the web
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of that connectiveness. And, I dont think thats a physical proximity element.
And certainly I dont [think] Mother did. She talked with people about seeing
things in New York through someone elses eyes; shed travel and be with that
person. And experience things through their experiencing them.

One dynamic missing from the telephone interviews was the depth of interchange
and information. I felt as if I missed a wealth of information and a personal connection
that meeting someone in person and talking informally engenders, both before and after
the interview. I personally missed the energetic exchange and information that comes
from a physical meeting.
An interesting observation came from Sphinx regarding telephone interviews. He
wrote:
Had the interview been in person, I would not have been able to open myself and
say all that I said. So it was good that it was over the phone. This was the first
experience for me and I hope it will be the last.

Impact of Study: Transcribers
I asked the primary transcriber how she was affected by her work in this study.
She wrote the following:
I have studied various religious practices, but never had really heard of [Integral
Yoga]. After the first couple of interviews and looking up some of the terms so
that I could become more familiar with them, I did become more enlightened and
more interested in [its] beliefs. What I found interesting is the way that each
individual had such a different way of incorporating them [beliefs into] their lives
and I found myself thinking of the thoughts and ideas long after the transcribing
work had been completed for that day. So I think that it opened up a facet of
something that I had not known about that will stay with me and [I] am better for
the experience.

The third reader, Cassie, also transcribed one and one half interviews. She found
an energetic difference between listening to interviews and reading the stories.
In the oral interviews there is an energetic frequency that is transmitted while they
speak and when you [the researcher] verbalize with them. A lot more comes
through with the spoken word because you can actually feel the energy shifts as
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they describe their experiences. The frequency touches the listener stronger than
with just the written word. But you can feel it in the words, also.

Conclusion
In organic inquiry the process of inspiration, illumination, and integration
encompasses data collection and analysis. The process began when I contacted 2
participants at the annual meeting for Integral Yoga practitioners in the Untied States and
identified the major Integral Yoga centers. The Integral Yoga community is very
connected electronically. I sent recruitment flyers to the centers and to an academic
contact who forwarded the flyer to the nearby center on the West coast. I received 12
responses within 2 weeks. No one responded afterward. All respondents fit the
eligibility criteria.
I organized four trips to interview 10 coresearchers in person. I was not able to
meet four individuals and conducted their interviews by telephone. Seven interviews took
place in the coresearchers homes, one in a public library conference room and two in an
empty room at the coresearchers workplaces. The shortest interview was 1 hour 12
minutes; the longest was 2 hours 26 minutes. Ten coresearchers were male and 4 were
female. The range of years involved in Integral Yoga was 10 to 35 years, with 9
coresearchers having at least 30 years experience.
I hired a professional transcriber who was not affiliated with Integral Yoga to
convert the recordings to written text. She transcribed 13 interviews. A friend not
affiliated with Integral Yoga transcribed one and a half interviews. She also became the
third story reader.
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I listened to each interview for accuracy prior to sending them to the coresearcher.
Coresearchers reviewed the transcript for accuracy in our conversation and to alert me to
any material that could potentially identify them or made them uncomfortable.
Following the analysis checklist (Appendix F), I listened to the tapes three more times
using a mental/thinking focus, a feeling/somatic focus, and an intuitive focus
respectively. I stopped listening with an intuitive focus after 10 interviews because no
new data about the interview was ever elicited with this run and I realized I had been
using an intuitive focus throughout the research process.
Listening to the tapes, reading my notes, and reviewing the transcript aided me in
identifying four categories for deconstruction. The categories evolved after analyzing the
first four interviews and remained consistent with the rest of the interviews. They were:
Patterns and Themes, Experiences, Planes of Consciousness, and Quotes.
The feeling/somatic review of the interview recording elicited some information
and insights. The main result appeared to be my reaction to certain areas of conversation.
I went into an altered state while listening to a few of them; I was not asleep because I
heard the voices on the recording but I felt as if I were somewhere else and did not follow
the conversation. I am not sure how these reviews contributed directly to my findings
unless it was to enhance my understanding of the coresearchers journey.
The outline for the coresearchers stories evolved from the deconstruction of
information emerging from the patterns and themes and experiences categories. My
criteria for what to include in each story rested on asking the following questions: Will
the information be useful to and potentially help the reader? Will it hold the readers
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interest? Could the coresearcher be identified by the story? I excluded or generalized
information that might identify the coresearcher or did not seem important to the story.
Coresearchers reviewed, revised, and approved their stories and additional
material used for other stories. I created five overall summaries that combined similar
experiences among coresearchers. Additionally, I developed three discussion stories from
two interviews about topics that seemed important for future dialogue in the Integral
Yoga community.
I conducted a small pilot phase to assess whether the stories could potentially
impact readers. I selected three acquaintances representing different points on a
continuum along a spiritual path. The first reader was not on a spiritual path, the second
just beginning her spiritual journey, and the third reader was well-advanced along the
spiritual path. All were unfamiliar with Integral Yoga. They read the same material: 4
coresearcher stories and 3 overall summaries. Each of the readers reported some effect
from the stories. One reader reported a very strong negative reaction to one story that
affected her subsequent reading and view of Integral Yoga. And although her reaction
was negative, it was a strong reaction and affected her.
I organized the interview data in a similar manner to the steps Renata Tesch
(1990) outlined for unstructured data: (a) Get an overall sense of the interview; (b)
Identify topic areas in the transcript and where they shift; (c) List the topics. I used 4 x 6
inch cards to note emerging themes and patterns, adding to them with each interview; (d)
Review the interview, adding new topics as they emerge. I revisited the interview at least
three times; (e) Refine and relate. I identified four categories to deconstruct the interview
data, marking the areas with a color-coded highlighter; (f) Rename topics, themes, and
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patterns to better reflect the context, an ongoing process; (g) Cluster the categories to
note similarities and their importance to the creation of the story; and (h) Review the
organization and titles, renaming or recoding as needed (pp. 142-145). Some patterns
were revised. The themes were refined to reflect the true nature of the findings.
I organized the patterns as conceptually ordered displays (Miles & Huberman, 1994),
shuffling them around until the themes clearly emerged and organized the patterns
associated with the appropriate theme.
Results paradoxically showed uniqueness and commonalities. Each coresearchers
story is unique but has features in common with other coresearchers. The resulting
themes were: Each sadhana is unique, just like everyone elses; Experience is only half of
the journeyintegration is the other half; and One never gets off the spiritual path
sadhana is a lifelong process.
The stories are placed together and found in Appendix G of this study. They
reflect my findings in a personal way and are told in their own words. The next chapter
discusses the results as they relate to the research questions, supplemental issues evoked
from the study findings, suggested avenues for future research, delimitations and
additional limitations of the study, and how the study impacted me.

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CHAPTER 5: DISCUSSION
This chapter discusses interesting features of the studys findings and elaborates
on unexpected ones. The research questions are revisited in light of these findings. A
short elaboration of the Mother is included, briefly mentioned in Chapter 2, enhancing
the readers understanding of her significance to the coresearchers, which was an
unexpected finding during the interviews; her influence was stronger than I originally
believed. Supplemental discussion of the findings are addressed. I include an account of
how conducting the study impacted me. The studys delimitations and additional
limitations are presented. I suggest ideas for future research generated from the study.
The chapter ends with a summary of the significance of the studys findings.
Research Questions
Research Question 1: What Is the Experience of Being in Higher Planes of
Consciousness in Integral Yoga?

Six of the coresearchers described experiences or having traits they identified as
higher consciousness planes described by Sri Aurobindo. None of the coresearchers
actively sought them. Most did not know where they had been until they researched it
afterward, comparing their experience to Sri Aurobindos description in the literature, or
the Mothers, or to someone else, who had described it in a publication or Internet blog.
The experiences of higher planes impacted the coresearchers when they occurred,
significantly imprinting on them. But the outcome, the consequence, the reason for the
experiences served different purposes. For some, they validated that they were on the
right path; it kept them going, kept them on the path even when years would pass without
another significant experience. For others, it instilled a drive to re-experience the planes.
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And for others, it became a journey of finding a way to integrate the experience, to make
something so profound fit into their lives.
Coresearchers who did not subjectively experience higher planes had profound
experiences with similar results. The psychic being opening was a major turning point for
some of them. So perhaps it is not the place, the experience of higher planes, over other
experiences that are key. It is about what experience the Divine sends them at a specific
point in their sadhana, and how each individual incorporates and uses that experience in
the sadhanahow it changes the individual and the spiritual practice. What is more
important then is not the type of experience or the experience itself; it is the integration of
it that carries the ability to permanently transform the individual.
It became evident from my interviews that one does not seek the higher planes of
consciousness; they came to the coresearchers. Some, like Pancho, understood that the
process must be allowed to unfold naturally. In the meantime, preparation of the physical,
mental, and vital aspects of their beingpurification of those partswas important in
order to handle the energies when they descended. Opening the psychic being is essential
in order to create the doorway or channel for these energies to descend. The psychic
being also helps to stabilize them in matter. The sadhanas of the coresearchers reflect this
process. The other important factor is the presence of intention, will, aspiration, and
surrender. These qualities maintain the energetic focus that allows Divine interaction and
eventual integration.
Being up in higher planes is the direction commonly held when talking about
higher planes. But I began to wonder, after listening to coresearchers relate their
profound and significant experiences, if perhaps those higher planes actually came
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down to the individual. How would someone describe being in certain planes and
realms during dreaming or sleep? How did the individual get there? It is difficult to
discern. The planes appear to descend more than the coresearchers ascend, affecting them
physically, mentally, and emotionally as well. The intuitive plane was the only plane a
few coresearchers accessed and engaged with regularlyparticularly Rishi and 1119,
who displayed characteristics of a trait experience.
My original goal was to analyze the coresearchers experiences with the intent of
fitting them into specific higher planes. During the course of my journey through this
study I realized that doing so would violate the respect, trust, and sacredness of our
discussions. It would signify some kind of negation of their experiences for me to place
them in artificial boundaries. I decided not do so unless they identified them.
This research question, I found, was restrictive. Integral Yoga emphasizes change
or transformation of the total being in all aspects of life. Higher planes are only one
avenue to experience change. My conversations with these pioneer-explorers showed me
that transformation occurs from different directions, that the uniqueness of their sadhanas
and their experiences along their journey are more important. If I were to repeat this
study, I would change this question to, What are the experiences in consciousness in
long-term practitioners of Integral Yoga and how are they integrated into their spiritual
practice?
Research Question 2: Using the Research Method of Organic Inquiry, Can Sharing This
Experience Somehow Impact or Change the Reader?

Each reader reported some effect, although Ariels, the first reader, was negative.
She experienced a strong reaction to one story that influenced her subsequent readings,
which nevertheless qualifies as an effect. The size of this phase of the study is too small
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to draw conclusions or generalize findings. It represents a minor pilot study. Future
studies using a larger number of readers will yield more reliable findings.
As a parallel, a few coresearchers remarked that sharing their experiences with me
shifted something in them, validating their experiences or encouraging them to share
them. Some voiced an interest in reading all the stories.
The Mother
At the start of my study, I was unaware of the Mothers influence in the Integral
Yoga community. However, in my interviews with the coresearchers, the Mother exerted
a tremendous influence and represents a strong presence among the majority of them. Her
significance is hidden from the world outside Integral Yoga even though her impact is
equally powerful to practitioners. She continues to strongly influence and aid the lives of
those who aspire and surrender to her. She is the Shakti, the Divine force, behind Integral
Yoga. It is because of her strong influence that I elaborate more on her role.
Her impact was often described in books from other members of the Integral
Yoga community (Bloomquist, 2001; Nunnally, 2004; Roy, 1984; Satprem, 1970).
Satprem, a Frenchman devoted to the Mother, recorded weekly conversations with the
Mother, and published them in a 13-volume set called The Agenda ( 1979-2000). He later
condensed the material into a trilogy: Mother or The Divine Materialism (1980), Mother
or The New Species (1982), and Mother or The Mutation of Death (1976). He also wrote
The Mind of the Cells (1999/2002). Satprem also wrote about Sri Aurobindo and the
Mothers work in developing Integral Yoga, Sri Aurobindo or the Adventures in
Consciousness (1970).
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Mirra Alfassa Richard (Sri Aurobindo called her the Mother, seeing her as the
physical embodiment of the Divine Mother) joined Sri Aurobindo in Pondicherry in
1920, after first meeting him in 1914 and recognizing him as the person she had dreamed
of early in her life. She knew she was destined to work with him (Bloomquist, 2001;
Satprem, 1970, 1980).
Few outside the Integral Yoga community would know about the significant
efforts of the Mother in advancing human consciousness evolution. She was the force
behind Integral Yoga. Satprem (1970) described her as a Force in movement (p. 282).
This aspect of force or power of the consciousness is what India has
represented in the form of the eternal [Divine] Mother. Without consciousness
there is no Force, and without Force there is no creationHe and She, two in one,
inseparable. (Satprem, 1970, p. 264)

She had the day-today responsibilities for the ashram in Pondicherry after Sri Aurobindo
went into seclusion in 1926. It was through the Mother that Sri Aurobindo was able to
help his disciples and students (Satprem, 1970, p. 282). She was the force behind the
creation of Auroville, a global working village, providing inspiration and wisdom during
its birth and early development. She mentored and taught students and children at the
ashram (Nunnally, 2004).
The Mother was an advanced occultist in her own right before coming to
Pondicherry. She had experienced the supramental consciousness before meeting Sri
Aurobindo (Satprem, 1970, pp. 282-283). She experienced many other dimensions and
planes of consciousness beyond earthly existence. She and Sri Aurobindo were united
and of like mind in their service to humanity. They worked fiercely to lay the path for
humanitys advancement.
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My understanding from reading (Bloomquist, 2001; Satprem, 1980) is that Sri
Aurobindo realized around the year 1949 that he or the Mother had to leave the physical
body and work to bring the supramental consciousness down to the earth plane from the
other side. Sri Aurobindo left his physical body in 1950. In 1956, the Mother announced
that the supramental consciousness had descended to the earth plane. She accelerated her
work on cellular transformation after Sri Aurobindos death in 1950 until her own
physical transition in 1973 (Bloomquist, 2001; Satprem, 1970, 1980).
The Mothers work, requiring a tremendous effort and force of will from her, was
to anchor the supramental consciousness into the cells of her body in order to advance the
final evolution of humanitythe transformation from a human being to a spiritual being.
She worked on the transformation until her physical transition in 1973.
In my interviews with several coresearchers, Mother played a significant role in
their sadhanas. She is the one they called when they needed help. She and Sri Aurobindo
interacted with the coresearchers in varying degrees along their spiritual paths, depending
on the coresearchers need and affinity, that is, to whom they resonated most. Sri
Aurobindo often seemed to appear with messages, advice, or words of wisdom. The
Mother seemed to work through the psychic being the most and appeared to them in the
most dire times of life as a comfort, force, and protector. She emanated and filled them
with Divine love.
Supplemental Discussion of Findings
Experience of Higher Planes
Prior training did not seem to be a predictor of whether a coresearcher had an
experience in higher planes. And having these experiences, I believe, did not make the
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individual more spiritually advanced. There is no linear progression that an individual
can necessarily follow.
Thats the puzzling thing about the yoga; there isnt really any methodology
except in a broad sense. And I think the reason for that is because as you go along
you have to adapt that for transformation of the body. The Mother did not like any
methodical practice and the only time she got into any kind of a mantra was when
she was going through the transformation of her own body. (Gopal)

Gopal said it took years to integrate the experiences he had. Annie had many experiences
in higher planes but has not been able to physically integrate them. Rishi appears to use
his encounters with the intuitive and overmind planes for apprehending the knowledge he
seeks and becoming closer to the Divine. He continues to grapple, however, with the
delineation between his spiritual and daily life.
This study presented a small sample of long-term practitioners in Integral Yoga.
Several identified experiencing higher planes of consciousness. The experiences appeared
spontaneously, seemingly random, and without a buildup of prior training and
experiences that might indicate having these experiences was a cumulative or hierarchical
process. Sri Aurobindo instructed that one had only to open to the Divine and then wait
for its descent. In the meantime, other work on the selfpurification of the mental, vital,
and physical aspects of personality and the opening of the psychic being would help to
hasten the descent (Aurobindo, 1970b, 1990, 1996)
Certain experiences, unlabeled by coresearchers, might fit Sri Aurobindos
descriptions of higher planes. I could have categorized the experiences based on the
descriptions given by Sri Aurobindo, the Mother, and Satprem. And I did for the planes
of the illumined and intuitive minds because they were easy to recognize. I was not
comfortable ascribing experiences to overmind and especially supermind. Sri Aurobindo
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stated that language in supermind was useless to describe the experience (Purani, n.d., pp.
238-240). However, I am not sure if knowing the planes they experienced would help or
make any difference to the ones who did not seek out the information on their own to
confirm their experiences. The Mother did not subscribe to conformity of experiences.
That is why religions are always wrongalwaysbecause they try to make the
expression of ONE experience into a standard and impose it on everyone else as
an irrefutable truth. The experience was true and complete in itself, convincing
for someone who had it. The expression he [speaking about a sadhak] derived
from it was excellentfor him. But to try to impose it on others is a fundamental
mistake, which can only have disastrous consequenceseach person is a special
manifestation of the universe. Hence, his true path must be his own. (The Mother,
as cited in Satprem, 1980, p. 205)

Movement from the Head and Heart
Two pathwaysone going up through the top of the head and one coming from
the center of the chestwere described by some of the coresearchers. Pancho described it
to me first, and I looked for an explanation of the difference. Sri Aurobindo described the
difference between the experiences as the psychic realization (chest), or psychicisation,
and the spiritual realization (head), or spiritualization.
The power of the concentration in the heart-centre is to open the centre and by the
power of aspiration, love, bhakti, surrender remove the veil which covers and
conceals the soul and bring forward the soul or psychic being to govern the mind,
life, and body and turn and open them all fully to the Divine.This is what is
called in this yoga the psychic transformation. The power of concentration above
the head is to bring peace, silence, liberation from the body sense, the
identification with mind and life and open the way for the lower (mental, vital,
physical) consciousness to rise up to meet the higher consciousness above and for
the powers of the higher (spiritual nature) consciousness to descend into mind,
life and body. This is what is called in this yoga the spiritual transformation.
(Dalal, 2002, p. 103)

Sri Aurobindo also characterized the movements as two systems: the movement
around the psychic being involved a concentric activity, a series of rings or sheaths with
the psychic at the centre, and the movement in the head was vertical, involving ascent
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and descent (Aurobindo, 1970a, p. 251). Another explanation is that from the head one is
sending out and receiving from the jivatman, the spirit, the higher spiritual aspect of the
central being. From the chest, one is sending and receiving from the psychic being, the
soul, the lower spiritual aspect of the central being (Bloomquist, 2001, p. 268).
Prior and Synchronistic Experiences
Coresearchers found Integral Yoga somewhat synchronisticallya friend or
acquaintance suggesting they look into it, or an intuitive nudge to go to a certain place
or lecture, or finding books on Integral Yoga at a meaningful time in their lives.
Some coresearchers had significant experiences early in their lives, or before they
were introduced to Integral Yoga as an adult. Integral Yoga, as a philosophy, may not
create or cause spiritual experiences. Perhaps it is the spirituality of the individual
embracing Integral Yoga that creates the meaningful sadhanas expressed by these
coresearchers. As 1119 described it,
Every soul comes in with the abilities needed. A spiritual practice only enhances
what happens in your everyday life by connecting from that higher place of
knowing into your daily life, it just illumines it. But, your spiritual practice is
necessary even if it isnt the real source of your spiritual experience. Its as if it
just feeds into who you are, and then as youre going about your daily life what
you need comes because you are in tune with your soul by practicing spiritually
something or other.

Experience and training outside of Integral Yoga enhanced the coresearchers
spiritual path as well. For some, they encountered Sri Aurobindo or the Mother prior to
their introduction to Integral Yoga. Pancho, for example, many years before his
introduction to Integral Yoga, met Sri Aurobindo in a vision. It was only afterward that
he realized the man who visited him many years before was Sri Aurobindo. For others,
Integral Yoga made sense of all they had learned. 1119 said, [Integral Yoga] really
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impacted [me] because it gave me the vessel to contain it all. Because Sri Aurobindo and
the Mother are wide enough to bring it all in; whereas any other approach is too
exclusive. Another disciple of Integral Yoga said it well:
What I have learned from all these paths is that each approach leads to a particular
inner experience, and that each experience contributes to a more total, complex
and rich spiritual realization, which can be a more solid basis for Sri Aurobindos
yoga of transformation. In short, all these spiritual paths have helped me to
understand Sri Aurobindos yoga in greater depth. Buddhism leads to the silent
mind, Christianity to devotion, Islamic Sufism to the science of the heart and
Hindu Tantra to the effective manifestation of the Divines Will upon the earth,
i.e., the Shakti. (Amrit (Howard) Iriyama as cited in Nunnally, 2004, p. 261)

Incorporation of Other Yogas
A majority of coresearchers had elements of other yogasbhakti, karma, raja,
hatha, or a combinationin their sadhanas. Integral Yoga includes all systems by not
prescribing any particular one. Sri Aurobindo (1996) described them and explained their
incorporation in Integral Yoga.
The full yoga, Purna Yoga [Integral Yoga] means a fourfold path, a Yoga of
Knowledge [Jnana] for the mind, a Yoga of Bhakti for the heart, a Yoga of Works
[Karma] for the will, and a Yoga of Perfection [Raja] for the whole nature.
(Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1622)

Sadhaks incorporate and use whatever particular path is appropriate for their
sadhana, which can change as their journey evolves. Gopal mentioned that the reason a
particular regimen was not prescribed was for that reasonto allow the sadhana to
evolve with the individual. Rishis sadhana, for instance, began with a desire to become a
better person, so he read and gathered as much knowledge a he could (jnana yoga). His
sadhana now includes being in love with the Divine, learning to see the Divine in all
aspects of his life (bhakti yoga). Janakas sadhana began with a jnana yoga orientation
and now emphasizes service and action (karma yoga). Sphinxs sadhana began as an
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urgent desire for an emotional connection to the Mother (bhakti yoga), progressed
through intense concentration (raja yoga) and now integrates physical asanas (hatha
yoga), imagery (raja yoga), repeating mantra (mantra yoga) and devotion to work as
service to the Mother (bhakti and karma yogas). I understand the integral nature of Sri
Aurobindos philosophy and psychology from the coreasearchers journeys.
Issue of Sexual Desire
The subject of sexual desire and activity in Integral Yoga deserves further
dialogue. Although Sri Aurobindo was quoted as saying sexual activity had no place in
the yoga (Aurobindo, 1953, 1970b, 1993b), in other passages he delineates that love
between two individuals stemming from love of the Divine and from the psychic being
can be a positive expression of the Divine (Aurobindo, 1953; Nirodbaran, 1973; Purani,
n.d.). Jenny Wade (2004) found evidence that sexual activity can evoke transcendent
experiences. Tantra yoga merges sexual energy with the Shakti force, moving it up
through the body, changing it into a spiritual experience to access the Divine (Feuerstein,
2001). Jeffrey Kripal (2001) suggested that there are homoerotic and heteroerotic
references towards the Divine in the writings of mystics, and allusions to such in the
works by scholars of mysticism.
I believe there may indeed be a more spiritual use of the act of physical love from
my readings, but the concept is a fine thread that is left for those more advanced and
purified in the yoga, individuals who operate out of the psychic being and in higher
planes, at least in overmind. Sexual energy is easy to misuse and abuse in advanced
spiritual practitioners, in whom spiritual energy is stronger. Further discussion and
exploration may clarify Sri Aurobindos understanding about this topic. Sri Aurobindo,
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on first glance at his writings, appears to subscribe to no sexual activity if the spiritual
aspirant/sadhak wishes to be successful. But there are more subtle double messages in his
writing that hint at the possibility of a divinised form of physical expression and
procreation, which occultists historically have known. And he leaves open the process for
procreating as supramental spiritual beings (Aurobindo, 1953, pp. 43-55).
Taboo Against Sharing Experiences
Annie noted the following reasons for the taboo against talking about ones
experiences: (a) It was deleterious to ones spiritual practice; (b) it dilutes the experience;
and (c) talking about new experiences before they became stabilized in the individual
risks losing the experience. Perhaps the taboo exists because it may be difficult for a
sadhak to tell when an experience occurs in the intermediate zone of the supramental
consciousness planes, where truths are mixed with untruths. Speaking prematurely
without integrating the experience and confirming its Divine imprint may predispose an
individual to incorrectly understand or interpret the experience. Long-term practitioners
are less likely to make this error. Their wisdom, by sharing their experiences with others,
may assist other sadhaks in avoiding these pitfalls, and offer them solutions to make the
spiritual journey less difficult.
Sri Aurobindo noted that in the early stages of ones sadhana, speaking about the
experiences stopped the experience. So a number of yogis made it a rule for sadhaks not
to speak of them. He added, But latterly it had altogether ceased to be like that (Sri
Aurobindo as cited in Roy, 1984, p. 46). The other reason may be that until the
experience is integrated, talking about itbecause language is a mental constructmay
bind the experience into the mental being, precluding its integration. Janaka mentioned
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another idea when he described his experience with the psychic being, saying, I didnt
want to mentalize it because that would be coming out of the experience.
Another possible reason for not sharing experiences is that unless the psychic
being is operating rather than the ego, the person sharing the experience could end up on
an ego trip and the person hearing it could experience vital feelings of envy, jealousy, and
self-doubt.
Perhaps the caveat is that it may be time to share experiences but the sadhaks
must be sufficiently far enough in their practice so that the factors previously mentioned
are less likely to occur. Long-term practitioners, like the coresearchers, can be mentors by
sharing their experiences with others. They can also support each other as a peer group.
Sharing Experiences and the Ripple Effect
An important point is the covert gain for humanity from the coresearchers
advances in their sadhanas. Integral Yoga is an experiment, and every sadhak is an
experiment. Each one has experiences that contribute to the overall pool of energy/
vibration that will further the evolutionary shift, the human transformation. Each time
they shift, each time they access planes closer to the Divine, they help to draw all of us to
the Divine. The descent of the supermind will do so to those who receive the
Supermind, who are open to it; for example, if there are thirty or forty people ready it
could descend (Sri Aurobindo, as cited in Purani, n.d., p. 32). Satprem discussed the
ripple effect on the other disciples whenever Sri Aurobindo and the Mother had
experiences that advanced them (Satprem, 1970, pp. 327-328). Rose experienced
connecting to a man on a mountaintop geographically miles from her.
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There was [a] soul sitting somewhere in India on a mountain meditating,
connecting to me. I have a stronger feeling that we are connected inside, all of us,
doing whatever sadhana we do, even if [we] dont know each other.

These examples point to a spiritual web of connectedness. Any advance on the
spiritual path by one sadhak represents an advance for all of us. This idea places a greater
importance and significance on ones spiritual path.
Sharing their experiences, I believe, will benefit others, both within the Integral
Yoga community and those outside it. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother are not physically
present for sadhaks to bounce their experiences off of them, to dialogue with them, in
order to validate and verify them. Sharing with each other may provide a substitute in
their sadhanas for Sri Aurobindo and the Mother.
Impact of Study: Researcher
I am always changed by experiences in my life and this study is no exception. The
difference is how much I changed. This study was an enormous journey not only by
academic standards, as it is a dissertation, but by spiritual and life-changing standards as
well. The transformation in me has been subtle, cumulative and hopefully permanent.
I have increased confidence in my abilities moving from a student to a graduate
and then to a teacher. I had not realized how much self-doubt and lack of confidence
hindered me. Part of the reason was that I hid a great deal of my spiritual nature and
intuitive abilities from others, so I felt that people did not really know me and judged me
according to what I let them see. Using a research method that allowed and honored my
abilities, where I no longer had to hide them, effected a large shift in confidence. The
flow and ease of the research process aided this confidence because when my life and
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workflow I know I am in my spiritual groove, moving along my spiritual path; I am
synchronistically in tune with Divine guidance.
I gained confidence in my research abilities by listening to the interviews several
times, eventually pleased with how I was able to elicit important information, guide the
interview, understand the coresearchers experiences, and figure out the larger pictures of
their spiritual journeys.
I discovered that setting the sacred space enhances or opens my intuitive abilities.
I realized I was using intuition throughout the study, not where the organic inquiry
method placed it. Intuition is one of the modes of apprehending knowledge that I use in
my life; it could not be compartmentalized. Organic inquiry simply encouraged me to use
it overtly.
It was not a smooth journey. I do not think transformation of self is ever easy. The
chthonic aspect of organic inquiry appeared a few times during the research process,
primarily in the forms of self-doubt, panic, anger, and impatience. If nonlight forces work
everywhere, I believe they may cloak themselves within these negative emotions. Having
to work on self-doubt was important because it slowed down the research process. I
acknowledged their presence when they emerged, ferreted out their causes or origins
part of the chthonic processand cleared them. Doing so helped to continue the studys
flow at a high level of focus and intensity throughout.
Organic inquiry is flexible enough as a research method to allow unique
variations in processing by the researcher and still effect a successful outcome. My study
benefited from it. Organic inquiry gave me permission to make slight changes to the
process in order to maintain my focus, intention, and aspiration throughout my research.
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Once I decided on the topic and research method I knew I was meant to do this
study. And everything flowed, especially finding participants, as I had been warned not to
expect many because of the long-held taboo against sharing experiences. The interview
trips fell into place, the dates and times scheduled smoothly and efficiently, and everyone
cooperated easily. Throughout the study I continued to feel this was important. I believed
it would greatly benefit the Integral Yoga community and open new dialogue for its
sadhaks. I knew each time I interviewed a coresearcher that the interaction was mutually
significant and helpful. And I had a strong sense of responsibility to maintain the honesty
and integrity of the study. These coresearchers took a big risk in participating in the study
and trusting me, which helped me maintain a solid focus and intention to see the study
through.
Other changes included an increased capacity in my intuitive abilities, a sense that
my findings would benefit the next wave in Integral Yoga evolution, and an increasing
awareness and intent that will flavor future writing: Written words can change the reader.
I have a clearer vision of my spiritual and academic paths. My abilities as a
transpersonal researcher improved. I also discovered that research studies require the
same process of intention, will, aspiration, and surrender found in Integral Yoga.
An unexpected bonus for me was the chance to meet an amazing caliber of
individuals who became my coresearchers. I remain awestruck by their strength of
character. They possess an unwavering devotion and focus on advancing their sadhana,
which helps Integral Yogas goal of advancing the evolution of human consciousness. I
admire the grace and equanimity they had in facing daunting challenges in their spiritual
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journeys. I am honored to know them, grateful for their contributions to my study and to
humanitys service. They inspire me deeply.
My personal reason for researching the topic of this study was to compare my
spiritual experiences with the coresearchers experiences of higher planes of
consciousness. I wanted to find out if I could have the same experiences. I discovered
that my experiences were as unique as their experiences, and as significant to my journey
as theirs were to them. Having experiences in higher planes was only significant to the
ones who needed the experience to move them along their path. Integration of the
experience was as important as the experience, perhaps more. Experiences in higher
planes are not the only experiences that advance coresearchers. More important is their
connection to the Divine, the connection to Divine guidance, the presence of the spiritual
realm in the coresearchers lives, and the awareness and opening of psychic being as the
doorway connecting them to higher spiritual consciousness. They are all working in their
own way to bring the Divine down and anchor it into earthly existence.
It is impossible to confine ones yogic experiences in the yoga because all life is
yoga and all aspects of the being have to be taken up at some point in the process.
We cant really realize the extent of it until weve gone through it. (Gopal)


Delimitations and Additional Limitations
Delimitations
This study specifically sought Integral Yoga practitioners with over 10 years of
experience. Gender, age, and ethnicity were not important. I accepted any volunteer who
met the eligibility criteria. Although I sought 8 participants, I did not limit the number
and would have interviewed every individual who voiced an interest. Geographic
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distance and finances determined the coresearchers I interviewed in person. To date, the
14 coresearchers in this study have been the only volunteers. Sending out another
recruitment flyer seemed unnecessary as I had more than the number I initially set.
I also chose the readers from my pool of acquaintances, basing my choices on the
level of their spiritual endeavors and their willingness to participate. I believed the range
of spiritual practice would broaden the range of impact despite the small number of
readers and increase the potential for validating narrative impact.
Limitations
I did not solicit demographic data because I was concerned that it would help to
identify them. I am aware that this prevents you, the reader from knowing them better, a
limitation in this study. But I hope that the experiences helped you to know them more
than statistical information.
I did not feel I had enough information to determine whether any coresearchers
experiences in the higher planes were state or trait experiences. Rishi and 1119 appeared
to have intuition as a trait judging by their ease and frequent use of that plane. It was not
obvious that anyone else showed the same abilities. However, several explained how they
could easily move between the spiritual and physical world by simply turning their
awareness to it.
I also did not feel comfortable categorizing their experiences into certain planes
unless they identified them as such. Language is a mental construct and cannot function
in supermind (Purani, n.d.). I believe, however, that some of the coresearchers
experienced supermind and knew it.
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Not all questions from the interview guide were asked in some interviews. I
intuitively flowed with the conversations and some questions either did not occur to me,
seemed inappropriate, or we ran out of time and I felt I had enough information.
The sample size was adequate for this study to identify patterns and themes and to
create a number of narratives. More participants would, of course, further validate my
findings.
Confidentiality, and my efforts to maintain it and the coresearchers trust, created
sufficient maneuvering of the data that it may have lessened the personal aspects of the
coresearchers stories. The tightness of the Integral Yoga community was a significant
contributing factor, since I was unaware of how much the coresearchers had revealed to
others about themselves.
Another possible limitation is that some coresearchers who may have had
experiences in higher planes appeared reticent to talk about them. I had some difficulty
getting a few coresearchers to elaborate or acknowledge that they had such experiences.
They preferred instead to talk about their spiritual practice.
The choice of readers was deliberate and subjective. I felt that my choices would
provide a greater range of responses despite the small scale of this phase of the study.
Any replication of the study might approach solicitation of readers the same way
coresearchers were recruited and include more demographic background to show a
broader base of interest.
Having readers as acquaintances may have biased their responses. One reader,
Ariel, was concerned that her remarks would be detrimental to the study. I encouraged
her to be honest in her responses. Her comments reflect her true reactions.
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Directions for Future Research
Any study would benefit from replication. Recounting of experiences by other
long-term practitioners will add to the pool of descriptors for the spiritual realm. Sharing
such experiences may lessen the sense of isolation others might be experiencing, showing
others that they are not alone in their sadhanas. Given the nature of the topic and the
research method, however, other studies will not be completely alike. Each
coresearchers journey is unique to the individual, despite some commonalities of
experiences. My skills and abilities, as well as my personal challenges, as a researcher are
different from anothers. Ultimately, each study contributes to the knowledge of
experiences in human consciousness.
Future studies in Integral Yoga may serve to break the current silence by
increasing the sharing of experiences and wisdom among sadhaks, assisting each of them
in the growth of their own spiritual practice. Perhaps sharing would expand the morphic
field of spiritual resonance, the intangible field of connection that Rupert Sheldrake
(1988) described.
Planes of Consciousness
I offer some ideas to consider before attempting to explore higher planes in depth.
First, it is important for practitioners to overcome their reticence and sense of breaking
rules. Conducting further studies on significant experiences in the spiritual realm would
expand transpersonal psychologys understanding of these planes. I wonder, however, if
such studies would be successful given that language is often insufficient to describe
them. The coresearchers were able to provide descriptions that conveyed to only a small
degree, I am sure, how their experiences felt. Could there be an energetic dynamic that is
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generated by describing such experiences? I was able to close my eyes and imagine a
majority of the experiences they described. Listening to the interviews frequently
triggered physical sensations in me.
Finally, a researcher must locate the practitioners who are willing to discuss their
experiences. I was fortunate to have 14 coresearchers volunteer for this study. A better
future study would be to find the rare individualsand locating them will take some
intense research and networkingwho have experienced supramental consciousness and
explore their experiences, as this consciousness dimension is the next evolutionary step
for humanity and the goal of Integral Yoga.
Nonlight Forces
A few coresearchers had experiences with asuric forces, nonlight energies. Asuric
forces are nonlight, negative influences attempting to exert control on humanity. They
work to prevent light and Divine force from establishing on the earth plane. Sri
Aurobindo stated that Adolf Hitler was possessed by a vital asuric being; Joseph Stalin
was under the influence of an intellectual asura (Nirodbaran, 1973). The coresearchers
encountered them accidentally; one, however, chose to continue to battle them for others.
Future dialogue in Integral Yoga might pursue solutions on dealing with such forces from
a united group stance.
Focus on Readers
Expanding the reader impact aspect of this study is another avenue of
investigation, constituting a second phase for the research topic. Readers could be limited
to being within the Integral Yoga community, the general public, or transpersonally or
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religiously oriented. Findings would enhance the idea that stories have impact, or that
spiritual stories have a spiritual impact.
Face-to-Face and Telephone Interviews
Interviews in person are richer. I strongly recommend them over telephone
interviews as the first and primary source of data. The secondary benefits also support my
contention. I established more interpersonal relationships with the coresearchers I met in
person. I think I received more insights and more information that proved mutually
beneficial. While I was confident of establishing the sacred space to the same degree in
telephone interviews, I lacked the visual and energetic overlays that may have generated
a stronger interpersonal connection and elicited more information. Future research using
both types of interview methods may shed more light on, or confirm, my observations.
Sphinx shared more in our interview than he would have in person. Perhaps
certain individuals are more comfortable revealing personal experiences without a
physical presenceit enhances the anonymity and is less threateningespecially with
topics that are personal and sacred. Future studies might incorporate a choice to
participants.
I did not have the readers compare the stories from the telephone interviews to
those done in person. It would be an area to explorewhether stories derived from face-
to-face interviews differed in their impact from those stories derived from interviews
conducted by telephone.
Summary and Significance of Findings
This study was unique in several ways. Others have written and recorded Sri
Aurobindos and the Mothers experiences (Nirodbaran, 1973; Purani, n.d.; Satprem,
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1970, 1980, 1985), about sadhaks relationships and memories of them (Nunnally, 2004),
and included descriptions of their own personal experiences (Bloomquist, 2001; Roy,
1984). I have not found any research that directly addressed sadhaks experiences in
higher consciousness planes, which was the intent of my study. Additionally, I used the
transpersonal qualitative research method of organic inquiry, a method ideally designed
for spiritual topics. Organic inquiry views research as a sacred endeavor with the intent of
transforming all who are involved in its process, including future readers of the study.
My intent initially for this study originated from a personal curiosity to see how
the experiences of planes of higher consciousness described by Sri Aurobindo in Integral
Yoga compared to my eclectic background of experiences in spiritual planes. Higher
planes in Buddhism have been well studied and published. The sacred literature of India
mapped out higher planes experienced by the ancient Rishis. But Sri Aurobindos yoga
was radically different in its goal and I wondered if Integral Yoga experiences were also
different.
Experiences in other planes of consciousness are important and often result in
profound shifts in consciousness and knowledge. But just as profound are the more subtle
emergences, Lizzie called them shifts in being, where the other spiritual planes begin to
integrate into our physical existence, deeply changing the way we view and live life.
Interestingly, I found that coresearchers experiences outside of the higher planes
were just as profound and transformative to them. I could not separate the planes based
on their descriptions unless they told me specifically. And I found that I did not want to
dissect, analyze, and compartmentalize their experiences into specific planes. I did not
want to pigeonhole them. Their experiences affected them, influenced them, and
164
impacted them beyond the boundaries of a specific plane. Sri Aurobindo said these higher
planes above the head were only a correlation in the consciousnessnot an actual
location in space (Aurobindo, 1970b, p. 1155), a mental construct to refer to a specific
realm of consciousness experience. I realized that I limited the reader and myself if I kept
to my original research question. I decided to include all experiences of the
coresearchers sadhanas because I felt they were important, life-changing, and could help
the reader in some way.
The experiences of these pioneer-explorers are holistic and comprehensive in their
impact on their lives. In between profound experiences, they maintained faith, will,
intention, aspiration, and surrender, which allowed them to integrate their experiences
and continue on their path. Their faith in the impact of the experiences sustained them
until the next experience or the next change occurred. They also took a risk in
participating in this study because they revealed important occult experiences that several
stated they had not told anyone before our interview, considered taboo in some Eastern
spiritual traditions.
Cathleens interview emphasized to me that the experiences I was seeking to hear
about, those of higher planes, were not as important when compared to how the
experiences themselves affected each coresearchers lifehow they permanently
changed the day-to-day activity, how they become integrated.
Upon reflection, perhaps there are specific purposes to experiences in supramental
and subliminal realms of consciousness. They can:
1. Open a portal or door that allows us to see another world, new energies, and for
knowledge to descend into our present condition.
165
2. Start a process of transformation by energetically connecting higher vibration to
our physical, vital, and mental movements.
3. Bring up or out some aspect of our shadow self, our muck, to the light, allowing
us to clear it.
4. Allow us to experience, really feel what we are seeking to feel and be, providing
us a glimpse, sustaining us until we can again feel it. It renews our aspiration,
strengthens our will, and inspires our faith to await its return.
5. Provide an opportunity to integrate and ground these experiences into the earthly
plane of our being.
6. Alter our current spiritual path and redirect it with a clearer vision.
It is wondrous to have these consciousness-altering experiences but then what?
Im reminded of the Zen saying, Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. The greater emphasis should be how
sadhaks integrate their experiences into the flow of their spiritual path, not the highest
plane one has encountered. How they renew their intention, will, and aspiration in order
to enhance their surrender to their own unique and natural process is the focus. Because it
is the paradoxical forces of aspiration, fed by intention and will, side by side with
surrender that moves one along the spiritual path. It is the awareness of the impact, the
significance, of the experience as they relate to each sadhana, how each individual
immerses and integrates them so that they make a difference in who we are, who we are
becoming that is importanthow the experiences transform ones being. The
experiences by themselves are not important. Its the way in which they get integrated
166
into the larger self, and then manifested into transformation, into what were actually
doing, why are we even here (Cathleen).
These coresearchers represent the American version of gurus, of teachers. Instead
of living in ashrams, secluded from outside life, they are out in the world living everyday
lives and also pursuing a spiritual path. Their wisdom, both individual and accumulated,
is valuable. They are the trailblazers who continue to further Sri Aurobindos goal of
shifting humankind to the next level of consciousness evolutionthe transformation of
human being to spiritual being.
A majority of the individuals involved in this study was affected to some degree,
a valuable contribution of an organic inquiry study. Future readers will derive some
benefit from it. Exploration of the experiences of long-term practitioners in Integral Yoga
resulted in a wealth of knowledge about experiences in spiritual realms and also unique
spiritual journeys of the coresearchers. As a whole picture, it gives the reader an
understanding of the complexity, difficulty, and rewards of the Integral Yoga spiritual
path. From a transpersonal viewpoint, it contributes to the growing field of understanding
humankinds spiritual quest. And from the standpoint of human consciousness evolution,
it suggests potential avenues of investigation that contribute to further the next shift.
167
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integral theory of subtle energies (pt. 2). Retrieved June 17, 2007, from
http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/books/kosmos/excerptG/part2.cfm

178
Appendix A: Alternative Depictions of Integral Yoga Psychology




Figure A1. Cycle of Involution and Evolution


SpiritInvolutionPhysical (realm of Matter) SubconsciousMental Spiritual
Supramental Spirit/DivineEvolutionSpirit brought down to realm of the
physical (Earthly existence)





Figure A2. Lowest Plane (Matter)Outer Being



LOWEST PLANE

PHYSICAL MIND VITAL MIND THINKING MIND
physical-mental mind life-mind mental-mind






Figure A3. Process of Evolutionary Transformation


Divine Divine ____Divine

Descent \___Human Being___ /Ascent____\Descent__ Spiritual Being


179



Figure A4. Triple Transformation Pyramid






Consciousness
Superconscient
Conscient
Subconscient





Human/Nature Being
Mind Psychic
Vital Inner
Physical Outer

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Appendix B: Integral Change of Consciousness in the Individual and Humanity

Figure B1. Integral Yoga Process

() Involution to Human Beings
Below Waking Consciousness Waking Consciousness Superconsciousness Truth Consciousness The Divine
Subconscient Physical Mind Supermind Existence,
Inconscient Life/Vital Higher Consciousness,
Mind Illumined Bliss
Intuitive
Over
() Evolution to Spiritual Beings


Note. This presentation of the Integral Yoga Process by M. R. Kramer, 2008, is based on "A Greater Psychology: An Introduction to Sri Aurobindo's Psychological
Thought" by A. S. Dalal (Ed.), 2001, p. 338, Figure 2.

Figure B2. Triple Transformation of Integral Yoga


Spiritualisation

Descent Ascent




Psychicisation


Note. This presentation of the Triple Transformation of Integral Yoga by M. R. Kramer, 2008, is based on the "Letters on Yoga I" by S. Aurobindo,
1970b.
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Appendix C: Letter of Introduction

**********SEEKING RESEARCH PARTICIPANTS**********

I am a Ph.D.candidate in psychology at Saybrook Graduate School and Research
Center in San Francisco. My dissertation study focuses on the significant and profound
experiences of long-term practitioners in Integral Yoga.
Participant criteria for selection include:
1. Regular Integral Yoga practice for a minimum of ten years. Regular practice is
defined as some participant-identified activity practiced daily to weekly.
2. Willingness to participate.
3. Grasp of the English language in order to describe your experiences accurately.
Initial interviews will take place at a mutually agreed location. Interviews may also
take place over the phone at a time that is mutually convenient. The initial interview will
be approximately one to two hours. Two to three follow-up discussions will occur in
order to solicit feedback after reviewing materials. Participants will be asked to write a
brief summary of their experience in this study at the studys conclusion, particularly in
regard to how participation may have changed them.
Organic inquiry, the research method used in this study, approaches research as
sacred. I am aware of the intensely personal nature of the subject of this study. I honor
the sanctity of your experience and will ensure that your anonymity and confidentiality
are strictly maintained throughout and after this study.




182
Appendix D: Participation Letter and Instructions for Coresearchers

Dear ,

Thank you for accepting my invitation to explore Integral Yoga with me and to
participate in this study. As a co-researcher, your contributions are extremely valuable
and I am honored to have you participate. The experiences we will be discussing are
special and sacred. This studys exploration will be approached in the same manner.
The experiences you have had often transcend words. You are invited to bring to
our discussions any other means of preparation, expression, or description you feel is
both appropriate and will help to convey your experiences more profoundly than verbal
description.
Our interview will be audiotaped and will last approximately 1-1/2 hours. I am
also asking for your time and assistance in reviewing the transcribed interview and
summary story developed from the interview, as well as providing feedback on your
experience with this study.
Shortly before the interview, I suggest that you prepare yourself for the experience,
spiritually, in any way that suits you. You may want to revisit and re-experience your
inner Integral Yoga practice close to the interview, time-wise, in order to refresh or evoke
your physical, mental and vital memories of the experience. Also, feel free to bring any
items to the interview that you consider important in creating and maintaining your
personal sacred space.
Again, thank you for your commitment of time, energy, wisdom, and presence in this
study. Please let me know if you have any questions.
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Appendix E: Interview Guide
I consider it a great honor to be here and engage in this experience with you. Before we
begin our discussion, I would like each of us to take some time and prepare ourselves by entering
into those spaces that have grown with our spiritual practices and which will assist us with our
topic of discussion. (5-10 minutes).
1. Could you describe what you are experiencing now?
2. Tell me how you became involved in Integral Yoga. How many years practicing?
3. Describe your practices, your routine in Integral Yoga. Tell me about your spiritual
practice.
4. What significant experiences have you had?
5. What impact have these experiences had in your daily life?
6. Tell me about your most intense experiences.
Most profound.
Challenging.
Enduring.
7. Do you have one that you would like to elaborate on in greater detail?
8. Have you ever experienced a feeling or sensation of ascending? Descending? How would
you describe them?
9. What range of experiences you have hadjoy, frustration, profound, exhausting,
pleasant, confusing?
10. What have you found to be challenging in your spiritual journey? Where in your Integral
Yoga journey have you felt stuck, experienced breakthroughs and epiphanies, received
new insights, felt despair, etc.?
184
11. What profound transformations in yourself have you noticed? How have you integrated
these experiences?
12. Is there anything else you would like to share? What have you experienced during and as
a result of this interview?
185
Appendix F: Checklist for Analysis of Information

CR*1 CR 2 CR 3 CR 4 CR 5 CR 6 CR7 CR 8
1. Researcher listens to the tape while concurrently reading the
transcript, noting editing discrepancies, missing words, etc.

2. Each coresearcher reviews a copy of the transcripted interview
for review after the first run in order to verify and clarify
perceptions and thoughts.

3. Researcher apprehends the interview three to four times. I
incorporated anecdotal notes, intuitive information, thoughts and
ideas, and somatic knowledge.

4. Phase of meditation, incubation, and rumination prior to
identifying patterns, key words, phrases, and ideas.

5. Distill and create narrative story from each interview.
6. Coresearchers review the their own summaries, providing
confirmation and validation, suggesting their insights.

7. Coresearchers experiences from their interviews are integrated
to create one or more overall and discussion stories.

8. Coresearchers are asked to comment and validate the material
from the interview that was used in overall and discussion stories.

9. Coresearchers are asked to describe in writing how their
participation in this study affected them.

10. Three initial readers read selected stories and comment on their
experience. Edited comments and results are included in the
studys results.


Note. *CR = Coresearcher
186
Appendix G: Stories
Each coresearcher has a story. The stories are in their own words, gleaned and
edited from the interview transcripts. My comments or edits are bracketed. Each story is
similarly sequenced into 3 sections: Sadhana, Experiences, and Current Issues and
Challenges.
Additionally, I created overall stories centering around a particular topic. Not all
coresearchers were involved in these because it depended on whether the topic appeared
during the interview in sufficient detail that it could function as a small vignette or
carried potential significance. The topics are: Ascent and Out-of-the-Body, Descent,
Psychic Being, Encounters with Nonlight Forces, and Issues of Isolation.
A couple of interview discussions were interesting enough to stand-alone. I made
them into discussion stories. I believe their content is important and unusual. The
discussion story titles are: Intuition and Group Dynamics, Cosmic Consciousness, and
Getting Integral Yoga Out There.


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1119 Story

Right now I feel quite relaxed. Im very grateful to have a chance to review, and I
feel always that reviewing life is a good thing to do from time to time, especially in a
structured way, which this is.
Sadhana
The crossroads come up all the time. I have to get up in the morning and get going
everyday. I make a decision and then its there for life. Its a state I have to get into, and I
have to keep nurturing that state and then living with that. Yet its not about being
judgmental about myself or anyone else. There is a gift in Sri Aurobindo and the Mother
that helps so much, its called the sunlit path. Sri Aurobindo wrote about it, the Mother
wrote about it. Basically in the sunlit path, its actually from an ancient Vedic tradition, is
that everything that happens to you happens for the best, even though it appears perhaps
as a disaster. Everything is working toward, lets say, the good or the true or the whole,
or the oneness. Thats the way the universe is; so to be in tune with that is the goal of my
consciousness. People use different expressions like: something Im manifesting, or
you create your own reality, all these kind of things. Theres truth in all of that, but
there is a more fundamental basis where creation is good, beautiful, whole, one, love, or
any of those words you want to use. I have a consciousness; we all have our own
consciousness, our own soul. So, do I line up with that or what? Some people say yoga is
difficult or the spiritual path is difficult. It is in a certain sense and in another sense its
not because its our true nature, its who we are. So, its the natural thing, and if I resist
who I am or my natural thing, then I suffer.
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The yoga does have a structure, it does have a movement, and those movements
are written down, anyone can read them. But I found that in myself for it to be true.
Mother always used that word aspiration, so if there is an the aspiration, that aspiration
always receives an answer, it always receives a descent. So if I open up, something
comes. If I dont open up, then nothing really happens. I take the step and then things
play into that step that I took. Thats my sense of evolution, that its programmed by
Divine love or whatever you want, but we have to become conscious, co-creators of that.
There are two other statesconsent and consecration. What enabled me to do
what I am doing now was a consecration retreat. That was a very powerful experience.
That was to be fully, wholeheartedly, connected into that spirit, that aspiration, that truth,
that I had, that I knew was there. But still I had to align myself with it even though I
knew that it would have consequences. Surrender and letting go, that kind of idea is very
hard; it was a very hard thing for me to do. Theres the intuitive knowing that this is right,
but there still has to be an element of, Ill use the word faith, to do it, to take that leap.
And then it works
When I meditate, I use the breath. I concentrate on the breath. And then thoughts
come and then thoughts go, and empires rise, empires fall, that kind of thing. <Laughter>
Im just there. And then this one group that I meditate with, its very nice because we do
this meditation and then we share afterward, then we pray a little bit, and sing a little bit,
and then go home. Its nourishing, always nourishing.
Crossroads: Meeting a Spiritual Teacher
I had reached a certain point where there was still something missing, I couldnt
really get to it. It was no longer anything to do with Integral Yoga as such, but there was
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a missing piece that I needed. When I came here to help my mother who was dying, I met
a spiritual teacher, which was totally outside of anything I ever expected to happen.
When this woman came around the corner, she put out her hand, and I looked at her, and
then all of a sudden I knew that theres some work I had to do here. And I didnt want to
do it; I really didnt want to do it. I had my plans, I had my life, and so I resisted, I
resisted for some time. But then I realized I had to do it. What I received from her was
what she received from the Mother. Shes a mystic with no connection to any particular
religion or philosophy.
Intuition
I operate out of intuition. Because if I logically analyze my job and the way I live
and the things that I do, it doesnt make any sense. Its the intuitive knowing, knowing
that the thing is on course. There were of course times when it wasnt all on course, or it
appeared like I was not going to make it and then I would make it. I had an intuitive flash
on my death, my actual death. I have the place and the date. I go with it because my other
intuitive flashes ended up happening, so is this going to happen too?
Experiences
Two Most Significant Experiences
The real basic things for me are the experience of oneness, and then the
experience of the one as many.
Four years of age.
I was prepared my whole life for Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, for Integral
Yoga, because of my experiences in life. I had an experience in childhood when I was
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about 4 years old on a summer day in a field. I sat under an oak tree and felt the oneness
of reality. And it was just for a few minutes, but it made a deep impression on me.
The one and the many.
I went on a retreat up in the foothills of a mountain range and I was meditating
along the river. I was sitting on a flat rock right at the level of the water, just sitting,
meditating. Suddenly my consciousness left my body and split; half went up the river to
the first drop of the river and half the other way, all the way down the river to the ocean
into the immensity of the oneness. So there was this flash experience of the one and the
many. That had always been an incredible philosophical problem for me: how everything
is one and yet how everything is many. So when I had that experience of the one drop
and the ocean, theres the connection, and there is this flow going on between the two
which is the river, the river of life, and all the analogies that you ever want to make. This
anchored me into a truth. So after that I didnt have to believe in any philosophy or
religion or system because I had the actual experience. I felt what it meant or what it is.
Its a moving from faith or believing into knowing.
Crossroads Experience of Past and Future Life
A lot happened to me when I was studying theology. I met a woman while
helping her with a retreat for some students. After the retreat, we hugged, and the
intensity of this hug opened up a past life, it opened up behind her, like on a wide screen.
I saw us in a past life on a boat. Later, she came to India to do some studies and she came
to visit me. She thought that we should get married, and come back and live happily ever
after in America. That triggered another experience with her. I saw our life, our future
life, how it would be, the three children and the house. I saw all of that. Also it was clear
191


to me that I could take that path and it would be all right, yet I knew there was something
else that I needed to do. So I told her, and she went back. She married another guy and
had the three children. I went to visit them nine years later and the amazing thing was,
when I got off the bus, the house that they were living in was the house I saw in my
vision, except that this house, their house, didnt have a fence around it and the one in my
vision had a little white picket fence around it.
The Void
I had an experience of the void, maybe it was a Buddhist void and the emptiness
and all that. I was hiking on a trail and I was going uphill and suddenly at a certain point I
just fell down, just fell down on the trail and started sobbing, and said, I dont have
anything, theres nothing, its all gone. It seemed the complete loss, the loss of life, and
theres no place to go. Nothing to do, nothing to do. So all of that washed over me. Then
I remembered the Mother, and it was, well, youre loved, the Divine Mother is here.
The Mother
During the short time I lived on the oceanside, I used to go down to the beach and
I was trying to work out the thing with the Mother. Because at that time, that was before I
went to India and I just heard about her. Sri Aurobindo was clear enough, but the Mother
was a hard one for me because it sounded very much like a maternal fixation returning to
something infantile, a dependence on the Mother. I was reacting to someone I met who
had come from Pondicherry and from Auroville, and this guy had these huge pictures of
the Mother and all he spoke about was the Mother and I was totally turned off by that. So
it wasnt until I was looking at the ocean and I had an experience there: It was le mer,
the sea, in French, and La Mere, the MotherLe mer and La Mere sound the same in
192


French and this Mother in Pondicherry was French! I understood that the sea is
nourishing all these fish, all this life, its the womb of the planet and were all in that, and
I have to respect the sea, otherwise I die. And the same with the Mother. The Mother is
the earth, and you have to respect the earth. If I abuse the earth then I go extinct. I got a
feeling of what the Mother was. I got that the Mother is an essential part of the creation
and Im part of that creation, and she is my Mother, I am the child, and I am cared for and
I am loved, and that is all I need.
Zen Meditation
I had an experience when I was in Japan doing Zen meditation. You have these,
these kind of illusions happen and these weird things happen because youre sitting there
all day long and youre not moving, and youre focused on your breath and so weird
things start to happen. When I did the little walking meditation between the long
meditations on the cement floors, which had a cloudy look; it wasnt all gray, it was kind
of gray and white. And then as I started to step there I realized that in between theres the
white part where its solid, but the gray part you could fall through, and so I wondered
how I could walk on this floor without falling through. You get that kind of stuff. Then I
had this experience there of getting up from a meditation, running out of the place, and
running up this hill that was next to the Zen monastery, falling over, having a heart attack
and dying. And then suddenly Im still sitting there. That was so real.
Current Issues and Challenges
My experiences are cumulative or evolutionary. Just talking about these things
creates another threshold. Those experiences are permanent but theyre also for a time.
The death experience has to be there. Because without that, then the next leap, the next
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steps are inhibited. Because that will come up, Okay, this is going to kill me to do this,
you know, But, no, it wont kill me because Im already dead. Im still working with
this concept that Im going to die someday. It doesnt work because it has to be now as
Eckhart Tolle and those guys say. The only thing that happens is in the now. I was talking
recently with a woman who has twice beaten ovarian cancer. But now its coming up
again for the third time, shes got a very limited time, I mean, who knows? But she still
speaks, Well, when I mean, its always in the future, and that future is not there for
her. Thats what Im feeling so much that the future is not there; I am doing what I need
to do in the present.
Integral Yoga gave me the vessel to contain it all, because Sri Aurobindo is wide
enough to bring it all together, and the Mother too, of course. Any other approach seems
way too exclusive and limited. Sri Aurobindo wrote all this stuff at the turn of the century
and its still extremely rich but still theres even more. And I no longer believe in, you
might say, the conceptual extent of words, because there is so much more, and especially
systems. Somebody said a long time ago, and it just resonated, all systems end in death. I
like these evolutionary thinkers, the futurists. Its another approach. But even their stuff,
of course, is limited; each one gets a little take on it. Jesus too said it in so many words,
I came to give you life and you can do it more abundantly than I did. Everything that I
did you can do better. If I did it you can do it too. I mean, every spiritual teacher says
that. I benefit from all of those, all of that, because as I bring every one of those persons,
every one of those teachings, every one of those energies into the now, well then, Im the
one who carries it on then; because theyre in another dimension, most of them. They can
only manifest in this dimension through you and me, through us. And were not separate
194


from them, its all one thing, but then we go back to the one of the many so Ive got to
hold the energy, the particle and the wave. Science gives a lot of clues to these things too,
because science is of course part of it. To do the new mathematics, for example, you have
to be a mystic anyway, to hold all that stuff in your head and to put it all together.
My outer experiences verify the inner planes: Because on the inner planes a lot of
things are illusory, or Im not sure. When theres a manifestation outwardly that confirms
something it helps. Thats why I mention my experiences, and everybody has them, some
people just dont or wont notice them. I always liked the verifications in reality; it makes
me smile. It comes in so many circumstances, the people you meet, the things that
happen. Amazing.
Impact of Sadhana
I keep going through it, I keep going through the process, and its the process of
letting go of the resistance. Its in the thing that needs to be done that it all works out, and
all the other stuff comes along too. But its really hard for me to do that. Because I get
into these emotional things with people, with friendships, with relationships, with all that,
so theres a whole complexity there. The more important thing is, Okay, now whats
next, where are my next steps?
Every soul comes in with the abilities needed. A spiritual practice only enhances
what happens in your everyday life by connecting from that higher place of knowing into
your daily life; it just illumines it. But your spiritual practice is necessary even if it isnt
the real source of your spiritual experience. Its as if it just feeds into who you are, and
then as youre going about your daily life what you need comes because you are in tune
with your soul by practicing spiritually something or other.
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I feel now that Im kind of always in a spiritual state. I mean, Im more in a
spiritual state, but Im also here and able to function pretty well. It feels like a dual reality
at the same time: The two things at the same time. Things are porous, the event is porous
and I see through.
Im very grateful to have a chance to review; it is a good thing to do from time to
time, especially in a structured way, which this is. Because my perspective is
evolutionary, what happens to me when I do this is, I see more connections. Like why
Im here now, doing this interview, so more and more opens up as a result of doing
something like this.

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AkroydStory
I want to be helpful. I guess Im feeling the physical, maybe; and maybe a little
nervous, a little anxious.
Sadhana
Since 1978, my whole adulthood and spirituality was completely formed by The
Agenda. I felt a really strong affinity to that aspect of the sadhana, which is really
Mothers exploration of the physical. Mothers voice is at its most intimate in The
Agenda. It was the intimacy of Mother voice which first drew me in. This level of
intimacy is not found in The Conversations, although it is found in Prayers and
Meditations, those being her conversations with the Divine. In The Agenda it is with
humanity via Satprem. And then I started reading Satprems books. I related to him very
personally inside The Agenda, and I have a very strong connection to him.
In 1983, I was really in a very stressed situation. Some [ignorant] people in India
where I was living were doing black magic against me. At a certain point I had a dream,
and I saw this Burmese Buddhist monk that I knew. I had nice a connection to him, and
[in the dream] he said to me if I wanted to unravel the snake then I should use this
specific mantra. And then thats where I got this mantra I have that Ive been using ever
since. This is kind of an elaboration of Om Namo Bhagavate in a way, I mean, (nervous
laughter) were not supposed to talk about these things in that sense. And its been this
sort of key to my sadhana ever since.
A few years ago I started to do silent meditation and then after about a year or so
doing silent meditation I went back to doing the mantra, and it really had a strong impact.
197

It has a nice impact to doing walking meditation as well. Its really my sort of key to that,
the key to my sadhana.
I mean initially I had some contact with people here and there sometimes, but
essentially I was really inside The Agenda, just cocooned inside the atmosphere of The
Agenda, a marvelous sadhana; truly, a most intimate contact with the Mother. After
reading it four times I also read and reread The Synthesis of Yoga, so Im kind of taking a
break from The Agenda. But I am rereading all of Satprems books and just reading Sri
Aurobindo. Anyway, from reading them [being alone with the books of Sri Aurobindo
and the Mother] and seeing those ideas and grappling with them and behind that, the
shakti behind it. I just think that whenever we read them we are having darshan with
them, were making that link, that connection.
[Until recently], what I had been doing for the last few years had been a lot of
Vedic astrology mantras. And I found that was very helpful. That was kind of like having
a nice vacuum cleaner inside your brain. It really just helped clear up the space so that
the central being could start to emerge more.
Experiences
Heart Chakra, Forehead, and Crown Chakra
And after finding my mantra and just by reading their books spontaneously my
heart chakra opened. [In the beginning] I would just feel this pressure here [in the center
of my chest], and then later on I saw that was what was happeningeven though the first
initial chakra experience, which had been the opening of I believe the chakra between
the eyebrows. This [one] is a difficult space, especially if youre prone to headaches. So
in the heart, the anahata I believe the Sanskrit name is, its a pressure, its easier. So the
198

heart chakra started opening there, and then Im trying to think, it must have been in,
when I came back to India. I went to [the ashram] for Sri Aurobindos birthday and went
for the darshan, and in the meditation before that, then the chakra above the head, the
sahasrara, opened up. [But] there was a long period between those initial openings and
maybe coming into touch with them and meditation and then reading, [and it] becoming a
more spontaneous experience. Meaning instead of just something like going into
meditation and then focusing energy in the heart or above the head, it was the just, you
feel it spontaneously, like walking down the street or whatever, in a nonformal manner
[where the intent wasnt necessarily placed there?] Yeah, and later on it really came more
above the head.
As I said, initially I had some experiences with the ajna chakra. I tried to avoid it
because of the headaches; it can be hard on the head. But, I havent really had any sort of
like reversal of consciousness sort of experiences, like being plunged into another
consciousness through that. It was more of it was kind of like something thats opening.
I feel energy, the energy at the top of the head flowing through it, in a very subtle
manner. Almost as if someone was blowing on the top of your head, gently blowing. So,
there is a physical sensation.
Psychic Being vs. Being in The Physical
You know, its hard to describe those things, [the psychic being], it has qualities;
the feeling is so central. Thats what I guess I was thinking when comparing to the
feeling of the psychic being to the feeling of the physical, whereas the [feeling in the]
physical is like, Oh, Im aware of the, the shakti here, or in my legs, or sometimes in
my face, or different parts of the body, or sometimes the whole body, almost like a cloud,
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like a pixilated sensation in the body in a sense, it doesnt feel hardness or a kind of
concreteness. Whereas the feeling in the heart is very focused, very focused and then all
those feelings are like, bhakti, and just, sort of spontaneous love, a loving attitude, all
those sort of qualities. Theyre there, theyre part of that ones presence there, but it could
be, it could be a certain spontaneous experience.
These experiences in the physical are spontaneous. It is not that I would seek
them out, but rather I would suddenly become aware of them. I mean, once youre in the
physical you know youre in the physical, its sotactile. I mean, it might be happening
in the brain, the brain might be, Oh, this is whats going on in my body. But theres
that, that sort of spontaneous identification with being,
Often at night Ill feel things while sleeping. Like recently, I saw Sri Aurobindo
stirring my matter in my body, or also a lot when walking too. But, these experiences in
the physical are spontaneous. It is not that I would seek them out, but rather I would
suddenly become aware of them.
For this project Ive been working on, Ive been going to some very remote parts
of India and its some aspect of the sadhana. I initially started to even take experiences in
the physical more seriously. After Id gone to this place at 14, 000 feet, its a very
important Buddhist pilgrimage area where they have these sacred lakes, I was reflecting
on how rich an experience it was. And an energy in my calves said wordlessly, but still
clearly said it was a rich experience for them as well! And then I could feel swishing,
an expanding energy, in this area around the shins, in the calves. It was spontaneous and
the body was saying it was also was happy with that experience. It felt like it was from
the body, it just feels that way.
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[The experience of being in the physical] must carry through because [now that]
were talking about it, Im feeling it going into the physical and that we are focused on it.
In a different way than the spontaneous experience and it has a certain quality of it.
Infinity
Sometimes, I feel like infinity in the body. These things, as you know, are hard to
articulate. It wasnt like infinity in the sense of, say, when the Mother says when you
become conscious of the world at all once, then you can become conscious of the body,
not the body, but of the Divine. (When you are conscious of the whole world at the same
time, then you can be come conscious of the Divine, Mothers New Years Message,
1973). What I am trying to say that although I felt infinity in the cells of my body it
was not as vast an infinity as say the above experience of Mother - it was a little
infinity, it wasnt something so vast as they talk aboutit was just like that, but in a
very teeny way.
I feel very connected to both Hinduism and Buddhism, and so once the body
started to identify with the lotus in which the Bodhisattva stands on. These experiences
are like a mutation of the form of the bodys own conscious identity. For a few seconds it
was like I was physically the form of that lotus, by identifying with it I mean. You feel
that shape, [you become it]. But then at the same time the mind is going, Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, oh whats going on? <Laughter> and you have to kind of quiet the mind [to
keep it from] analyzing the experience, so its not totally mentalizing [the] experiences,
and usually theyre not that long. Youre feeling it, but I find it very tactile, very tactile
but feelingin a way Im not feeling like Akroyd anymore at that point. And Akroyd in
this shape, the shape would change, or like I said with the feeling of infinity once or
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twice Ive felt it in the body, it just was like this incredible openness. I felt very open,
even though it didnt feel vast. I didnt feel like I was identifying with the universe, it was
just open space. It felt like open space. It didnt move; I was sleeping. I woke up and my
body was in this space.
Central Being
[The central being] has that quality, the feeling here, in the heart. You have a
really strong physical, or nonphysical but as if it was physical feeling, like a solidity is
there that is just not comparable to anything else. But, its very interesting because here,
above the head, it becomes very light, clear. Whereas in the heart its just, maybe because
its behind the emotional center, it has that sort of, you can see the emotions almost being
a perversion of that because its just very deep, a very deepness.
Like the very interesting ancient metaphor for light and fire, like agni in the
Vedas, a fire of self, a candle burning. Because when you go into those spaces, I guess
its the fourth dimension or whatever, its called something, its as if it is this external
space but somehow this external space seems almost flat compared to the internal. The
internal spaces seem much wider and larger and truer and more intimate, more deep. And
of course there is that love that is there. And its just a sort of sureness, and it carries you
further. But the Mother said that youd know it when youre there, and thats one of the
things, you do. Thats probably the reason its hard to describe because you just know.
For me, I have a sense of there, but its the beginning of there, you know, the front door
or whatever. But you just know it. Theres just something about it that is, you try to be
honest with yourself and I think it does, it does work. I mean that integrity, that sincerity
that she speaks of, and then you take that and you apply it to everything, and in applying
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it to everything, because you are applying to yourself as well as your relationships with
people, a constant sort of outflow of thoughts or whatever that goes with the rest of the
day. And so that feeling is just there, its just, its just, theres just a feeling its there, you
just know it. I think what I am trying to say is that if you are sincere, aspiring towards
perfect sincerity, then you know when you have that experience versus just fantasizing.
But the central being is really strong, strong, like an axis, you know, like, like a wheel
axis, it really has that sense of [solid core]. Sort of like the axis mundi, hollow, almost.
[Are you finding that too, at the same time?] Yeah, I think [that the quality is becoming
more solid], the sense of unreality is growing stronger. So, that sense of unreality is
coming with a sense of another reality thats truer.
Being in Higher Spaces
[How do you know when you are in a higher space?] You just know, and you
know when youre not there. I mean, there are certain qualities, soft and more detached,
you just feel that. Well its easy to see Mother and Sri Aurobindo, its very easy. Youre
just so attuned that you think about them and you see them, spontaneously too. I see a lot
of them in the dreams, and in walking around [So they are actually visual; they show up
for you, its not a sensing when youre awake?] Yeah, visual. And then even with the
physical sun and walking down the street, I see them. A bunch of diamonds, light, and the
Mother, for just a second I saw glimpses, I dont know where Im at, at that point, you
know. You see it, so youre internalized but youre externalized, youre both, youre
living in both spaces at that same moment. I mean I am walking, so I am not asleep or in
meditation, but I see them also. So I guess one is partially in trance, but also one is
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present in the body. One is in another consciousness, far less mental, that is why it is so
hard to explain.
Ascents and Descents
The ascents, descents, Ive felt not really ascending, you know, maybe a little bit
descent; I noticed that question in your notes. Not really. I was fascinated by that too, but
I think that probably I experienced those things but was not conscious at the time. But I
dont necessarily feel, say, water coming down in the inside of your body, or something
sort of shooting out of the top of the head in that. In one of Satprems later books, The
Tragedy of the Earth, a very nice book, he really talks about this strong sort of shakti that
comes from below the feet all the way up and then it starts shooting way up for a while,
but these things Ive really havent experienced.
Dreaming of Sri Aurobindo and Mother
Whenever you dream of Sri Aurobindo or the Mother, one has to take that dream
seriously. In 2001, [around August] I dreamt that Sri Aurobindo asked me to be his eyes,
to watch things for him, to note them down, but not to draw any conclusions. And then
about, a month later, 9/11 happened and everyone, you notice, it was an interesting thing,
a lot of hysteria, on the one hand, very scary. But for me the whole thing was, I just
remembered Sri Aurobindos dream. And I just wouldnt let myself get absorbed in that
hysteria and general anxiety because, like I said about feeling the benefit of isolation in
my practice for so many years, again, it was better for me to not to draw any
conclusions. So I could just sort of watch what was happening and not take all those raw
emotions that was so much in the atmosphere here in the U.S. absorb that and become
part of that. I cant deal with politics at all, otherwise I just become a hot head and totally
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imbalanced. So I really felt he was saying, Dont get involved with this. And again,
also with the tsunami, it was the same thing.
Dream, Warrior
The dynamic of the dream life I have has totally changed. So very recently,
around the time of Sri Aurobindos birthday of this year, I had a dream, a very archaic
kind of dream. I was like a Sumerian warrior in this very white space, it was a completely
white space. I had a club, and I came to this rich brown-like bronze colored stone temple
of the Goddess, a particular kindbecause I know iconography and all the basic temples
styles and there is a particular type that I only know, three buildings and they are all for
the Goddess Devi, the primordial Mother. I heard this sound and I saw this snake that was
meant for me to destroy. I heard the sound, it was a direction from the Great Goddess in
the form of a buzz, and then I saw this snake, a black cobra twisted around a white pipe.
And then in the process of the story, it twisted itself around my neck and I just clubbed it
into two piecesit looked like sushiand what I felt, one of the things that fascinated
me about the dream, was that when it twisted itself around my neck I wasnt scared.
[Before this time in my sadhana I would have been afraid.]
Current Issues and Challenges
Meditation versus Being in the Physical
They [experiences in the body] dont really last that long, and might even last just
a few seconds, but then sometimes some things would come up, especially walking
meditation. And then it can be hard to sustain. At times, I sort of I put myself in a semi-
trance state, but what I find is that its different than other sort of meditations. Like if you
meditate in your heart and you go deep in that chakra, or in that space towards the
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psychic being or trying to bring that out and veil it less or whatever, thats a deep
experience. And then, lets say, if the phone rings or something calls you out of it, its
just a bigger sort of leap of space. But in the body one can feel really absorbed and really
inside the experience and if something external happens it doesnt feel like this huge leap
across. Or, it takes you out of it, or it doesnt, its not as jarring. It is not like when in
meditation when one can go deep into trance. The physical seems to feel just below the
surface, very nearby. More like surfacing as opposed to being in one space and going into
another sort of a link after the meditating for 20 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever, and it
sort of, two or three transitional minutes. And it evolves.
Being in the physical.
So then, in the last few years the experience started going into the physical; thats
hard to explain, its, its starting to get more and more established. First it was just a little
bit here and a little bit there, I mean, once youre in the physical you know youre in the
physical, its sotactile, say, its so, its not happening here [in the chakras or in the
head] anymore.
So with the physical, its like, then the world can sometimes seem so false as it is.
[Just by this the experience of being in the physical?]. Yeah. And also I think that my
experience of it must still be very mentalized, because its so early on and the way the
mind has been such a dominant among other things of the body. But, there is a certain
kind there, its like, on the one hand sometimes it just seems, everything just seems so
false; but not in a depressed manner where its just futile. But just, it feels so false, the
world feels false, and yet also theres a real strong faith in the future. [As if its an
illusion], a very tenacious illusion. I havent physically felt the illusion. The external
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world feels simply false. So its one of those spiritual concepts that I have faith in. The
other thing is the mind is very calm, so calm. In fact, I think that is one of the qualities of
being physical is a very calm space. And spacious, one feels spacious in the body,
making the ordinary experience of the body feel flat or 2D[two-dimensional].
But, with things like with my life, that all this traveling I have to do, and it always
takes a while for it to return to the calm enough space where I could let these things
happen. <Pause>. But the interesting thing is that I find that in the physical, my faith gets
even more firm, more strong. And the psychic being has that psychic connection, which
is beautiful, and so, so real. Which also has a calmness to it. Im trying to think, its like
almost as if, like meditating on the psychic being, getting that connection, focus bringing
ones consciousness there, not of the brain so to speak, it goes very deeply in it. Whereas
in the physical it seems to be less centralized because when I am focusing on the psychic
being its like going to the core, and almost experience the self as being the central
experience.
Intuitive
I think intuition has grown as a side effect of the sadhana. I see it as being the
ranges of intuition in the sense of yoga. In The Life Divine he talks about this intuitive
plane and that sort of thing. For me its more of a quality of the heart, through the psychic
being. [In my work now] you have to work very, very intuitively.
Impact of Sadhana
I dont think I would say these things [we have talked about]. I mean for my
friends [I have], in bits and pieces. My partner knows a few of these facts, but they make
him feel uncomfortable. [But] between friends, I wouldnt say these things.
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After this year, especially after Satprems dying, [the connection to him] became
much stronger. It was hard for me when he died, and I find he is still a really important
influence on me. The feeling was that as long as Satprem is alive, the yoga of the world is
going forward, and then suddenly he left too. It was really pulling the rug from under
ones feet, as the saying goes. You see Mother had already left (the external physical, that
is) when I began my sadhana, so it was just Satprem for me. There was never any talk of
him being their successor, how could anyone succeed them? But he was the most
important disciple; there is no doubt about it. His departure puts a lot of responsibility
into all of our hands, on our shoulders, our bodies. Since his death, I have made just a
stronger connection to him than I had before. And then with that came more experiences
in the physical.
Also with the tsunami, it was the same thing [as 9/11], thats what I guess Im
thinking, feeling, especially with the physical, its like these things are happening and
they have a big impact on the earth. But since I began having experiences in the physical
they just do not seem that real. Personally to be detached from it, it was fine, to be
detached and not be involved. Because that would just bring me out of it and what was
really important to me is to follow, to nurture this thing, this sadhana in the physical.
Since the beginning of the 21
st
century, its a very tumultuous period outside; I
just dont get caught up in that. The experiences in the physical have made this external
"war on terror" so-called reality even less real. Really since 2000, things really started to
congeal, the power of my sadhana.
Thats what I guess Im thinking, feeling, especially with the physical. Once I am
feeling the physical, its tactile, but its being in the physical that feels real. And I would
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say that its not so much that in force of being an observer, is that, actually being an
observer is almost a survival way to do it, because there is a certain experience at my
stage in my sadhana that has to be, I guess, more internal as opposed to within time,
within the now. Those sort of external pressures are not for me to get involved with. They
pull me out, they pull me in a different direction as opposed to being anchored into my
own space. I think history now pulls me out of myself. I feel like what he was directing
me to do in that dream was to not pay attention to external global events. Its almost like
its a duality, its another duality, I suppose, if you have to keep in dualities until we
really become one. And its sort of like a duality that theres outside and theres inside,
and its better just to pay attention inside. I see the direction we are going externally, but
its given me a really strong faith that theres nothing to worry about.
One of the things that fascinated me about the dream [fighting a cobra wrapped
around my neck] was that when it twisted itself around my neck I wasnt scared. It was
like nothing at all, no reaction. It just was part of the process. So thats why I can say that
theres a real sort or progress over this time. [Before] I wouldve, at that point, probably
even saying Mothers name out loud or whatever to get out of that space. And it was
really very confirming about my sadhana and my surrender to them, and the progress of
it, in that way.
And then the other thing is my sense of smell, I have a very poor sense of smell
and very recently it started to develop.
Its amazing that Mother could articulate those experiences of her body. And
whatever she would say. In The Agenda, the Mother would say the words seemed so
hollow compared to the experience, and yet she was able to convey something hugely
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powerful, even in translation!saying its a good yarn. And its keeping me attentive to
her energy somehow, but the fact that she could talk about itcosmic creative dust of the
universe being identified with that gold dust of the supramental and furtherquite
amazing.
It had a strong impact in my art. Its kind of a combination working very
intuitively, and its also increased that sort of openness to just letting it happen.
The only [challenging] thing I can think of, especially this year, was this need to
be home. Its a nice environment, its a very good environment to be in, so one could
really go into a psychic space and maintain it outside of the meditation throughout the
day, you know, keep referring back to it. But then, the whole impact of the world is very
harsh; its very difficult. I feel that for about five months this year I really sustained a
very, for me, a very high space. That was really a wonderful accomplishment because
otherwise I would go up and down, being in it and then I would be pulled out of it and
back into it. And then I was really sustaining it, but part of it was I didnt go out much,
and going out would have its challenges. And actually what happened, basically, I got
attacked by disease entities in the doctors office, and I lost my balance. But in the last 6
weeks Ive been rebuilding that space, and Ive started finding what I need in order to go
into the psychic space. Its such an openness, its all about the openness, its all about not
having walls, and trying to be able to do that and still go outside and not go into the
supermarket and get a migraine because someones got a bad thought and you just get to
that thought and you come back [with it]. Now I have found a trick of protection when
I leave the house, thanks to their Grace.




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Annie Dutts Story
Five minutes ago I was completely dispersed and in my frontal consciousness and
now Im reconnected to the higher consciousness and the larger self and the divine and it
feels just great. Very sweet.
Sadhana
[My] practice changes all the time. But in general the one thing that I [do], which
has remained constant throughout, is brahmacharya. That was one of the rules that Sri
Aurobindo had in the ashram, which was celibacy, no sex. And I did that right away and
that wasnt really much of a problem for me. That of course has impacted my life. [It]
means no relationships with people who want that. So that has been a shaping factor.
And then Id say another constant, the main constant in my yoga has been
working in the inner consciousness. Some people do karma yoga. And Im really bad at
karma yoga. But Im a meditator and so I explore the inner planes of consciousness. I
have a really good facility with those experiences in the inner planes and I know the
different planes and I can negotiate them and know where I am going and bring in those
incredible experiences and change the consciousness and stuff. So that has been a
context. Im a mystic, major mystic. You can call me a poster child for the old
spirituality. Because, even knowing Sri Aurobindos yoga, where they talk about these
wonderful spiritual experiences and how they dont change matter and they dont change
life, even knowing that and even saying I want to do my yoga in the world and I want to
change life, even knowing that these experiences are so spectacular and so profound,
theyre just incredible and you just sit there and youre so happy when youre in these
experiences and theyre so vast, and you think its just going take a tiny little thing and



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theyre going to come out and change the world but they dont. And so as a result, my
outer nature is not transformed. I have all kinds of problems with my outer nature.
Going Through Inner Vital
[I accessed these inner planes] through rock and roll and through love, falling in
love with people. You know, the vital, the emotional being, which is the higher vital, is
right in front of the psychic being. So for me, I think thats probably my most default,
awakened part. And music is in the vital and if you get psychic musicit is just very
easy for me. It takes me right in, the music gives you something to concentrate on, its
like a mantra that quiets the mind and it focuses you. And I go into the inner vital, which
is the force, the power, the feeling, the wideness, the love, the emotion. And it just
goes POW! out into the universal, into the cosmic vital. Its not that localized, you just
feel like youre getting out of the surface consciousness into a wider identity. You just
kind of go from your surface back. Its like your surface is a little point and the further
back you go the wider it gets so you get hugely wide.
And at a rock and roll concert these universal forces theyre just massive. Thats
the universal vital. You get 18,000 people in there all focused on inner consciousness and
magic. Its just huge. And so I learned how to do that [initially through rock and roll] and
I then learned how to do it through any music. I can basically get it through most music
now, classical music, bluegrass, rock and roll, ragtime, whatever.
And then love, also, I have the ability to see peoples psychic beings and the
divinity in them. And in men especially, I see the Divine. It is harder to see the Divine
Mother. The Mother has always been harder for me but I can at some point see the Divine
Mother. So I can look at people and see their true being and that again just puts me back



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into the consciousness of the Divine. So thats through the emotion and through the heart,
especially if I have a deep relationship with someone and I go through the heart. And that
is really confusing because you see that and they dont. And what do you do with that?
Usually you dont do anything. You just sit there and see the Divine and nobody else sees
it. But anyway you can do it that way. So thats going in through the vital.
Meditation Technique
For me meditation was easy. You just sit down and then you start looking and you
see a little vibration thats interesting and you follow it. You look and you see a little
thought or a feeling or an idea or a little vibe or something and it looks kind of interesting
and you follow it. Its basically a concentrating. You see something and then you zoom,
you zoom the lens up, you increase the magnification and you just increase, increase, its
like increasing the concentration. You just sit there and you go, I wonder whats
happening above the head, lets look. So you kind of send your awareness up there and
then you just start looking and then you feel, Oh yeah, it feels kind of like champagne
coming down on the top of my head. Thats really neat, lets just open to it. You just
concentrate and it just opens and opens and opens. I learned how in the 60s when we
were all smoking grass and it was like going down corridors. Youd see a hall and youd
go down the hall and youd go deeper and deeper and youd follow it to see the secret at
the end. So thats my technique of meditation, you just jump on a little vibration and
follow it to the end wherever it is.



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Experiences
Matter Waking Up to the Divine
I have experienced a number of times in the body, probably the true physical or
the subtle physical, the awakened divinity of the physical, in Hatha yoga class for
instance. And then Ive also had that experience that Satprem talks about and Mother
talks about in The Agenda, of matter waking up to the Divine. And that I tell you, you
know all these spectacular experiences that I have been talking about in the inner and
higher pale in comparison to matter waking up to the Divine. Because it is absolutely
solid, absolutely concrete, absolutely holy, peace, its just unbelievable. But, I havent
had that experience as often, maybe only 8 times, but its a really good one. Its been a
long time since so I cant really remember. Its just mental remembering. No, just that the
Divine is here, and the Divine is physical and concrete.
Psychic Being and Surhomme Column
Ive had the [experience of the] psychic being, that sweet innocent purity of the
psychic being, which is the heart totally surrendered to the Divine and bowing to the
Divine. Ive also had an experience, which may be something similar to what the Mother
talks about in The Agenda in 1973. She said she saw the psychic being of Rijuta. And it
was taller than Rijuta was; it was like a couple feet taller and a couple feet down it was
maybe 12 feet. And Ive had that a lot, this feeling of this column of psychic identity in
me thats me but its much taller than I am and its built of the psychic being. And I also
had what I was convinced was the experience of the surhomme, the supramental, the
superman consciousness, that Mother talks about in 69. And that again was that column,
this huge maybe 15 foot high kind of identity built on the psychic being, just one, just a



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foot back from normal reality. Its not like these descents of force, its very calm and very
humble and simple but totally awake and bright and full of bliss and power and
everything. I only had that once. But this column business Ive had that more than once
and I think theyre related. [Its] just kind of a cylinder, just kind of a column of
awakened identity. It kind of feels like, you know how when you feel the shape of your
you is the shape of your body? Well, it feels like that except youre a cylinder instead
and the cylinder is about 15 feet tall; so you feel like this column of identity.
I would like to see that surhomme experience come back, because when it
happened I was absolutely convinced that it was the superman consciousness. It was at
AUM [All USA Meeting] and I was in front of this fellow. He said something and this
bolt of golden energy just came and hit me. Our psychic beings merged and then it went
brooooww, you know, and it turned into this column. And this new consciousness
opened up in me and it was completely based in the psychic being. It was this sweet, utter
humility, pure, sincere awareness of the psychic being, but it was 15 feet tall and it was
just behind surface reality, it wasnt like one of these experiences of the inner, it was
right here, and it was absolutely clear, and it was really, really strong, and it was full of
bliss, and I was just absolutely certain that it was the superman consciousness. It was just
vast, but it was so humble. And it was so here, in the manifestation. Mother said its the
psychic being that will materialize the supramental body. And I felt that I had that
experience and that this was what was going to manifest the supramental body. I was
utterly certain that it was this supramental, the superman consciousness of the transitional
beingnot the full-fledged supermind, but the consciousness of the transitional being of
a person who is born human but had the supramental and was making the transition. And



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it only happened to me once, and it stayed for three full days and then it kind of, was sort
of present for about a week and then it disappeared. But the thing is, when it happened I
was utterly certain. I've never had it since and Id sure like to. I think that would be neat.
Jivatman
Ive seen the jiva, jivatman, which is the central being Sri Aurobindo talks about.
Before incarnation you have a central being that sends down the psychic being and the
psychic is in the manifestation, but the central being is above. Ive had that and it was
huge. After I experienced it, I said was that the jiva? And I looked it up and it was. So its
like this enormous entity outside of manifestation, before Annie Dutts incarnated. And
the whole Divine is up here and it starts to individuate like a stalactite going down. And
thats the central being, but its above manifestation, and its one with the Divine but its
individualizing and then it sends down the psychic being. So I had that. That was pretty
cool. And I only had that once.
Golden X
And then theres another consciousness, when we are talking about higher planes
and consciousness, that I dont know what it is. And I just call it the Golden X. When
weve been talking of descents of light, descents of force, descents of peace, descents of
bliss, this is like that but 10,000 times stronger. Its massive. Its just obliterating. Its
something up there and Im not going to worry about what it is. But its got a whole
different quality to it of absoluteness. You know like in [the movie] Twister when theyre
in the tornado? Or like if you hear a train going by and its going [makes train sounds].
Its like that. Its just obliterating. Its like being there at the birth of a galaxy or
something. So Ive had that. And every once in a while it comes back. I think Im



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assimilating. Also, I was with someone who died once and when she died it came down. I
think we were kind of [in] the same thing. I was identified with her and I was seeing what
she was seeing. I was seeing her make the transition. And she just ran into the arms of the
Divine and the force was everywhere. So I just call it the Golden X.
Mukhti
Mukhti, thats a great one. You know how I said Im not a very good karma yogi,
when you surrender action, and Ive never been very good at action. Im kind of a loser at
action. But every once in a while for this task or that task or because of ferocious
deadlines or real impossibilities Ill get into a total state of surrender. Ive done that a
number of times, and what happens is every single thing you do is utterly surrendered to
the Divine and you surrender the fruits. And you do it and say, I dont care what
happens it doesnt matter, this is the Divine. And Ive been in that state for 6 weeks at a
time and what it gives you is absolute peace. Its mukhti. You dont care about anything.
You are absolutely invulnerable, you are absolutely incorruptible, and it gives you peace
from all those desires. And the frights, you are not afraid of anything, youre just immune
to fear. Thats hard for me to do, but Id like to get that one back. I do that when I give
[public] talks, because I am so scared. So thats happened a number of times.
Trikaladrishti
Once I think I had trikaladrishti, which is the triple time vision. Its the vision of
past, present, and future. It was at an AUM and I kind of got back out of my
supraconsciousness and its like I saw all time as a river, but it was all there at once. It
was like block time, like they talk about in physics, where you can see all time at once
and you could just put your finger in wherever you wanted but it was all simultaneous.



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And so you understand how the supermind can understand everything all at once because
its all synonymous to it. It was just a little vision of that one day.
Divine Mother
Ive seen the Divine Mother, which is a hard one for me. I see the Divine a lot but
its harder to see the Divine Mother. Im not really personal about the Divine. It feels like
a state. And I dont usually see it as Mother or Sri Aurobindo even though I am totally
devoted to them and theyre my gurus. It feels like a presence, a being. But, you know, it
doesnt come like Krishna. It feels like an intelligence, a being, and it feels personal but
maybe not qualitied except for bliss and power. When you see the Divine it just has a
sort of a he cast, sort of, not really. But, if you had to give it a gender it would sort of be a
he, sort of. And the Divine Mother would sort of be her. And I finally saw the difference
once. It took me a long time to see the Mother and when I finally saw her it was a lot
closer, it was a lot more creative and it was full of power, whereas the Divine is more like
love and peace and ananda and bliss but its not so creative. But they all kind of blend in.
If I didnt have Sri Aurobindo telling me, I probably wouldnt have had that experience
that way. But I ha[ve] to work hard to get the Mother.
And then Mother, I finally got in touch with her through [someone] who was
telling us stories of growing up with Mother in the ashram. And after that, I shot through
the top of my head and got in touch with Mothers personality. And that lasted for a year
or two and that was really nice, but Ive kind of lost that again. Mothers hard for me. I
dont know why. So now Im thinking in terms of the evolutionary Shakti. Thats how I
think of it. So I go up through the top of my head and think in terms of getting in touch



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with the evolutionary Shakti thats what I call it. And its this creative power that will
come down and transform.
Easiness of Accessing Planes
[What planes can you go right to and which are the ones that are coming in
periodically that you either visit or you feel that they come down to you but they arent
permanent yet in terms of anchored?] The ones that are really pretty easy are ananda and
the wideness up here, the wideness and the truth and the light and the bliss in the ananda,
thats real easy to get. Just (snaps) like that. The Golden X, thats a little harder to get,
thats that massive crushing one that doesnt come as often. And the awakening of the
Divine in matter, I dont have that one at all.
Current Issues and Challenges
For the first 12 years [of my sadhana I was around incredibly vital devotees
whose beliefs were] that were going to do the yoga, until the end, were going to do the
transformation and its possible. That is what the vital brings. I believed that. That was
stamped on me, that transformation is possible and were going to do it. And of course
Satprem is the same thing. He is this vital, completely Western, take no prisoners, scale
the peaks, transformation is possible, do it now. So that it indelibly stamped me with the
feeling that transformation is doable. Its a doable goal. We can do it. Its possible now.
Because, when you talk to a lot of people, especially the Indians they say, Oh, no, no,
we dont think about transformation. Dont be egotistical. Dont even think about that.
Just get in touch with your psychic being. But I have been indelibly indoctrinated with
the idea that total transformation, the supramentalization of the consciousness is possible.
So thats been the whole focus of my life. That has been the most important thing in my



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life, the yoga. More important than everything else, this total belief that that was possible,
and that was the one thing that mattered.
Thats the thing with [my nervous system dysfunction], I have no shields at all.
[So many things then] bother me. [If] I go into a restaurant it takes me 5 minutes before I
can get to a table thats not dangerous with all the vibes coming at me. People think I'm a
nut case. I took classes in transformational healing and new age techniques and stuff and
the shields thing; I just never could get it to work. But what is working is I'm actively
concentrating on bringing peace and strength into my nervous being, into the outer
nervous being, consciously building that bridge between inner and outer.
And right now Im lifting weights trying to get stronger in the body, which is not
the inner consciousness. Actually I dont have any physical consciousness at all, Im just
trying to get the physical to be aware, because Im just so spacey. I just dont have a
sense of my body. I would say the dreamy-land, space-out land, isnt the inner
consciousness, its a mental zone, which is just kind of dispersed. I would just call that
attention deficit zone. <Laughter> Just kind of little thoughts. The inner consciousness
still for me takes will and sitting and purpose, which I do when I meditate. I'm still
working on it. There are times where, you know, it stays for a long time, but then it goes
back.
For 20 to 30 years I was working on these inner planes building up experiences
and doing basic work on the outside. But for the last five years now Im realizing that the
bridge needs to be built between inner and outer. So thats what Im doing now. [These
other planes] dont come across, there is a split between the inner and the outer. And



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making a bridge is tricky and Im just starting to work on that now and I think Ive got
the key.
Theres still just a big division between my surface personality and my inner
consciousness, and so most of the time Im in my surface personality. And when I
activate the inner consciousness its hard to speak and its hard to carry that around
activated. So usually I still have to kind of sit down and go in a little bit, I havent quite
mastered it in dynamic action. So that needs work.
This is new [in the past 5 months], because you know, I told you how the inner
and the outer were not connected and I never knew how to do that. Because I go into the
inner so easy and then I come out so easy. And its like a wormhole, I go swish-swish.
Its like, its like a stargate. Theres no connection between the two because its instant.
You have to build the bridge. And how you do that is you have to go slow. Youre here
and you slowly come forward and you bring it with you. You dont go swish-swish,
which is what Ive always done because its been so easy for me. So you go real slow and
you consciously bring that inner consciousness into your surface awareness. You dont
just do this Dr. Jekyll/ Mr. Hyde thing. Youre in your frontal awareness and then you try
to remember it and you have to consciously bring it in. And I didnt know that, I thought
it would just magically happen, like a fairy godmother would just come in and go swish
and presto you are transformed, but it has got to be an act of will.
Its the same thing with the evolutionary Shakti above. What I do is I go up there
and then I concentrate on slowly bringing this Divine Mother consciousness down into all
the parts of my being that need transformation. So in other words, you do it real slow up
and real slow down. Thats how Im working on it. And its working.



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It helps to have a little technique too, because Integral Yoga is really low on
technique. They dont have a lot of techniques. Everybodys got to invent his or her own
techniques. So I have all these problems with my surface nature. And I have all these
experiences [but] I cant ground them. I cant sustain them. They come and they go, they
come and they go. My bills are all late and all these things in my outer nature are just not
yogic. Its like India, you know, the electricity doesnt work but they have a great inner
consciousness.
So I came across Emile Coue, who was the faith healer in France around the turn
of the century in 1900. Sri Aurobindo and Mother both talk about [him]. He did this
mantra. Im sure youve heard the mantra. He was a faith healer and he cured tens of
thousands of people from asthma and paralysis and everything and the mantra was
Every day, in every way, Im getting better and better. You say it 20 times in the
morning and 20 times in the evening. Ive been doing that for a couple of months now
and my God its working. And Sri Aurobindo and Mother say why it works. Because it is
a suggestion placed on the subconscient. And the subconscient is a consciousness, but its
very opaque. And it will respond to a higher consciousness. It will respond to the vital
and it will respond to the mental and it will respond to the spiritual, and also it responds
to repetition. So if you do that over and over and over it starts to have an effect. So Im
experiencing some good results in the outer nature now. [Its almost as if I am creating a
channel into the subconscious by direct will and intent].
It is a tool of the psychic being. Its not a tool of the hip GenX, post-modern
mentality. Its too sweet for that, too innocent. You just sit there and its so sweet and so
childlike and its full of faith and you can do it, Every day, in every way, Im getting



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better and better. And you can feel the consciousness start to change and you can feel
the higher consciousness start to come in and start to work. And my health is improving.
[It] totally has to do with the mind of the cells and yoga in the body too.
[The following] is what [my sadhana] looks like for me now. The Transformation
Academy, thats what I call it. I saw this movie called Equilibrium. Its a science fiction
movie, and they do this thing called the gun kata. A kata is like a movement, a form in
martial arts. So they do this thing where they can predict where the bullets are going to go
and youre going pop, pow, pow, pow, you know, and theyre just dancing. So this is a
kata developed for me. There are three parts to it. Theres inner aspects of it where Im
doing inner activities, theres working on instrumental parts of my nature, and then
theres some little mundane habits and methods and routines.
[In] the three inner ones, the first one is, I open to Sachchidananda and bring
forth the psychic being, and thats the most important. Its this thing of opening
consciously to the evolutionary Shakti and bringing that down. And then the second part
is bringing peace and strength down, and the third one is offering everything, getting into
that state of mukhti and surrender. So those are three inner things that Im working on
these days.
In terms of nature, the two things Im working on is mastering my emotions,
which I dont master, theyre very jumpy and Im really emotional. And then Im
learning how to focus. So those two things [are part of] my nature [kata]. And then the
little routine methods, Im journaling, because that gives me understandings, and it shows
me where I am in yoga. And then Im working on the things that we all work on,
exercise, eat right, go to bed on time. Then every night I plan the next day. You learn to



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adapt and dont get into too structured a conventionality. Thats what my yoga looks like.
The opening to the world and the psychic being and the bringing down of peace and the
strength, thats in the meditations. And then the rest is outer nature stuff. Thats mostly
where my yoga is these days, [in] outer nature. Right now Im not concentrating on inner
experiences.
What Im grateful for is that Ive got this vision, that Ive got Mother and Sri
Aurobindo, that Ive got the yoga, that Ive got the books, that Ive had all these teachers
and trainers. Ive got this vision for the future. I feel that this is kind of like post-ashram
yoga because its yoga in the world. Its like the material world is going to get a new
landlord, the Divine is moving in, and we can go out there and we can wear jeans and we
drive cars and we can go to Paneras and have a cup of hot tea and a sandwich and be
doing the yoga and be experiencing the descent of the supermind so we can take the
world for the Divine.
Im grateful for that vision and Im grateful that Ive had something to organize
my life around, because that gives a unification and a purpose and a meaning for your
life; Im really grateful that I've got that because life has to have meaning and if every
moment you feel that your life is important and it means something and youre trying to
do something, thats great.
Two points: One is just to reiterate that point about how spiritual experiences are
only half the ride; its the day trip. Thats old spirituality, having all these experiences,
thats only the trip one way. And Integral Yoga needs the trip back. So getting excited
about these spiritual experiences is not where its at in Integral Yoga, you have to
transform your nature.



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Benefits of The Study
The second one is I really want to thank you for doing this because this is really
important. And I think that this is the American contribution to Integral Yoga, that we
treat this as a research area and we get the knowledge out and we start sharing, because
thats how you grow. In science they publish their results. And I think we need to do that
in the yoga, and I think thats how were going to go forward. Because just sitting here
and having all these experiences, you dont know what they are and you dont know if
anybody else is having them. And hearing that other people are having them, it gives you
such joy and such hope.
[Preparing for this interview] gave me a good overview of my life. It made me
realize that Ive had like six or seven big periods in my life and each period was devoted
to one particular purpose in the yoga. So it kind of put everything in focus, so that was
very nice, thats good.





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Cathleen Carmichel Story
I feel like Im being seen or being known on this level that I dont usually put out
there in a very overt way. But it feels okay, I feel comfortable, its just an awareness.
Sadhana
I practice a breathing pattern that envisions the chakras opening from above and
descending down the base chakra. And I find that very centering and meaningful. It just
feels related and good to me.
I also practice hatha yoga thats based on the Iyengar style of hatha yoga. I have a
very specific set of exercises that I do with a teacher, and there are times during that
practice where I again feel through the body an incredible boundlessness, or
boundarylessness, I should say. The boundaries are not there. So that the breathing, the
position, the getting into the asana itself and then holding the pose and being in that pose
and breathingespecially in some of the poses that you stay in them for five minutes,
more resting type posesI find those to be just very liberating and very physical. Its
different from [being in] nature but its also still very much in the body. And I think
thats something that I feel really was a strong message from Mother and Sri Aurobindo,
[that] was Its in your body; its in the body. And its in the body that all of this makes
any sense at all.
The transformations a physical work. It isnt ethereal or abstract; it needs to be
real in the body. And being somewhat of an intellectual type of person that is always a
challenge for me to be able to be experiential and not always having a process clicking
away. In the mind we could map out all kinds of things and, with words, come up with a
common ground. When I talk about the body and how it can become, I guess the closest I



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can come to it, to an experience that most of us have is where that sleep state, between
wake and sleep, where you know you're falling and drifting asleep. And sometimes youll
jerk yourself awake thinking, Oh, darn, I was almost asleep, and then you have to get
back into that state again. Its almost like that state, its a very, you're in the body, but
your mental configurations are gone. The other thing I again have to go back to [is] just
being so blessed by having early contact with the teachings of Sri Aurobindo. The basis
of yoga is the silent mind, and I go, [Well], I mean, how many years now and I still
havent even got that far! Its always been reminding me, Get back to the silent mind,
and dont be attached to everything through your mind. Thats an important part of the
practice.
I think the other part of my practice thats really quite strong for me and always
has been has been work, Ive always worked for different organizations related to Mother
and Sri Aurobindo. I work for a grant endowment organization, and that is also
challenging because youre doing something that is such a draw of the ego. Its like your
ego can just jump in on anything, of course, anything that has the I attached to itthe,
I do it this way, I will get this recognition, or I will be able to do this and therefore this
person will have to do that. Its the I in relation to others or the I in relation to the
big outside world. And how do you really have pure action and pure work? Thats the
true karma yoga, the work of offering, consecrating the actions so that whatever is the
outcome is offered and Im not attached to the offering.
I find that to be quite challenging, I feel like Im getting better and better at that, I
mean, you have to keep going back and trying over again, especially when something
fails. Successes were much more willing to accept, failures I dont accept as well as my



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successes. But karma yoga is quite a powerful way of doing the yoga. For me its the way
to bring the yoga more and more deeply into every part of my life. It has a parallel with
Buddhism, the Buddhist concept of mindfulness, right action, right effort, right thought,
right speech. So I would begin with a day, this day, this day is consecrated to the Divine.
May all the things that I do today be bringing forth Mothers work and be for the good
of the transformation of the work. Okay, so if you could begin a day like that, and even
if I never think again about it, even if the rest of the day my mind is totally taken up with
the busyness of my work and the thoughts and concentrations and communications and
work, Ive at least made that intention clear at the beginning of the day. Well, thats a
place to begin. And then at the end of the day one reflects back on, Okay, did I engage,
did I disengage, did I get my ego tangled up, or did I, was I able to bring my psychic
being forward? Did I consecrate my day fully or did I get lost? And then throughout the
day, Im much more conscientious about certain activities being in a spiritual nature. For
example, reading Savitri or reading a spiritual work seems to be pretty clearly, Okay,
this I can focus on and intend this. Lighting a candle in front of a meditative symbol,
that can have that.
But I also take care of my plants. I like polishing wood, bringing forth beauty, and
that is another place where the conscious thought can be there. It is a thought though, and
thats another area to work on. Because it isnt a mental activity, the body is working or
scrubbing vegetables or chopping. How do you bring your conscious moments of
transformation, a still mind and a devoted open heart to the actual moment [of] your
activity and not be attached to the outcome? Thats sort of a karma yoga approach I think,
and I do a lot of that because right now that is certainly the stage of life Im in.



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With my work being involved in the intense emotional [milieu], thats a whole
other world in which we have transformative work to do. People can pull us into their
dramas and you can get caught into incredible swirl of negativity, vampire-like behavior
where people suck off your energy or hostilely attack you and Ive felt all those things.
And I feel the importance of protection and meditation and creating an inner place that is
safe, I think thats very important.
I find my emotions are probably my least able to articulate of all the other
experiences. [But the idea for the picture on a brochure] came out like that and so to me,
this is yoga, this thing right here. I mean, I didnt do this all myself but Im part, one of
the creators, of this. So then all these projects and stuff, I mean these things are so
strongly in my life and so important, it isnt other, it isnt other than me, its a really full,
full part of the life. And how do you show things like, What are emotions? Your
emotions are joy and happiness and justice. Do you have a feeling for justice, is that an
emotion?
I mean, I feel like our ability to share wealth and to release wealth from hostile
forces, this is an example of that. To be able to use our spiritual vision to create, to create
this world that were seeking to create, its going to require us to use our vision, use all
this, everything we have to make it happen. Its not an easy work, [but] its really an
important and big work. So I read things like Savitri, and Ive read it many times. I just
read it beginning to end, and then I read it, do it again, and thats a part of yoga as well.
Its a little different part of it.





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Challenge: Sex, Money, Power, Nonlight Forces
[Life changing moments and experiences have] all sorts of dimensions to them. It
is a vortex of very powerful energy. Whenever theres powerful energy around theres
always negativity, the bright and the dark, theres no light and the darkness, theres the
polar opposites, and there are people who almost swarm around a certain energy, [for
example], sexual energy. In [working with women], there are a lot of issues around
sexuality, and how to approach that with a high level of consciousness and a goal towards
transformation and transcendence, and that is really an interesting thing.
So, Ive had an interesting opportunity to incorporate that into my practice of
yoga, which is somewhat contradictory. I would imagine there would be some people
who would find it actually outside of how would you say, the ordained work of Mother
and Sri Aurobindo. Celibacy is an important element of the ashram, but I dont think
celibacy was ever encouraged in Auroville. It was never imagined that you would have to
be celibate to live in Auroville, or that you had to be celibate to be a devotee of Mother
and Sri Aurobindo, but that at some point in an individuals spiritual path it may come to
pass that you do become celibate. And some of the ashrams do have that as a rule,
celibacy is a rule if you are a member of the ashram. But it isnt for everybody and it isnt
within my life. So Im going, Well, this is my life, this is what Ive got. And it seems to
me that we have to bring our highest level of understanding and consciousness to this
topic until we are transformed and no longer reproducing through our sexuality and
through our bodies. If and when that occurs, we wont need to be clear and clean about
sex because we wont be having, well who knows how well be having children and what
the future holds, I dont know. But until that time, I think we deserve, we all deserve a



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chance to understand ourselves and know our sexuality identity and have a pleasurable
joyful sexual life.
Now, how that all fits into my practice of yoga is that I have a very loving and
strong marriage that has a very alive and meaningful sexual component to it. So, I guess I
have to say that I havent actually set as a goal to have celibacy, it just never really fit
into my life. I mean there had been times before I met [my husband] but he and I have
been together for [for a number of] years, so its been a long time since Ive ever even
thought about being celibate. I dont engage in it real mentally. I try to think of it more
from the point of view of, This is work and it just so happens that theres this
conjunction, this overlap.
Because Mother put a lot of importance on sex and money being transformed to
the Divine purpose. That sex and money were very strongly linked, they were held by the
hostile forces, which I can really see. I mean sex is definitely held by the hostile forces. I
hope it doesnt sound too weird to talk like that, but it does appear that way to me. When
I see children around the age of 12 to 14, they are just at the verge of sexual awakening,
and its an incredibly exploitive time of life. There are a lot of purchasing, marketing,
money [issues] around [them], theres a lot of predators around them, theres a lot of
exploitation of their bodies and the way their body looks. And [it] is the point where a
person first enters into the world of sexuality that, to me, I think is the hold in our culture.
And the United States seems to set the cultural trend around the globe. Its pretty [much]
held by hostile forces. And it is power as well, absolutely.
[In terms of bringing our spiritual path into the whole arena of sex, money, and
power,] I think [it would be] on a level of practice. Its a very personal practice and in



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some ways, we dont talk about it very much. I have no idea how people who are
practicing yoga are bringing their intention of yoga and of the spiritual light and the
psychic being into their day-to-day life that includes an intimate sexual relationship. I
have no idea. I dont think Ive ever talked to anybody about it. [I was discussing this
with other people.] We were realizing, why do we have taboos? I mean, that its a taboo
itself should alert us to the fact that we dont have control there. Somebody else has
control, some other forces are in charge there, we arent as in charge there. Whereas, if I
were to talk to you about my singing, I sing classical music, if I was to talk to you about
how open and how I feel and how the energy is when Im singing in a large choral group,
and the eternalness of some of the beautiful music of Mozart, that would be something
that would flow so sweetly and nicely into your research project. How do you take that
down to the lower chakra and say this is through sexuality Im able to see this. I dont
know that weve done such a good job talking about that yet. But from the point of view
of how I would approach it in a system the way I think about myself and my life and my
practice [would be] how Mother and Sri Aurobindo always said open your top chakras
first. Its always from above. You open these top chakras before you do anything below,
because that will take care of itself. If you start at the lowest and try to go up, you could
come in[to] trouble. And I dont particularly want that to happen to me, so I am pretty
conscientious about that. So the idea of money, power, and sex, how do I approach that in
a yogic sense and with an effort to bring forth the psychic being and psychic influence on
those activities in my life? I would say its similar to the same thing I do everyday where
it starts off with [saying], My intention is that this activity will be reflecting my spiritual
self and my highest aspiration.



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And I feel pretty, pretty successful with it. I dont know that I have a lot to say
about it. I guess it seems like we havent totally opened ourselves to the supramental. We
havent completely opened the upper centers really totally and, speaking of myself, I tend
to have more awareness here in my heart, in my will, but certainly the lower chakras, I'm
not a big expert on that. I guess it hasnt really been incorporated, its part of my life, it is
part of my life and in that sense, all life is yoga. I know this is part of my yoga; it just is.
And then I take whats there and thats what I work with.
Experiences
[Regarding significant experiences] that is much more of a complicated [subject
to] answer. I think there are probably significant experiences in terms of the descent of
light or the opening that one can perceive of higher chakras opening or, you know,
perceiving activity and motion through the chakras. I do practice that.
As far as actually the depth of my spiritual experiences, I would say [they] are
more related to equilibrium and groundedness and balance and harmony, so that at
different times Ive really pursued a particular meditation type or breathing pattern just to
clarify to have an experience of a certain thing. But by itself it doesnt mean very much.
From there I still have to go back and not be irritable, crabby, short-tempered,
disorganized, selfish. From what I really learned from studying Mother and Sri
Aurobindo, the inner experience is one thing, but to be able to have that all the way
through all the layers of your being so that all the layers of your being are enlightened by
that, and that the psychic being or that inner aspiration of yourself floods through all the
things you do, thats what I'm interested in now, thats where Id say Im at. And so what
are the experiences from which I move forward or what have the experiences that



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enlightened my day-to-day work of transformation? I would say they have mostly to do
with silence, seeking silence, deep peace, a sense of silence and peace and nature, that
Im able to shed my ego in nature and, really feel full and quite universal in those
moments. And that I guess, I would say has been some of my most profound experiences.
[When Im in nature, I experience the feeling of fullness and universalness.] Its a feeling
of boundlessness really and of being free, shedding the ego, that is I guess the way to
describe that. It is not being self-conscious in the small sense of self but getting like a
universal consciousness of oneness and harmony with the natural world.
Life as a River
I feel like its the day-to-day reality that really makes the difference. Its the
enriching of the texture of my everyday life thats going to matter, no matter what other
experiences I have. I have experiences, visual, sometimes really visual meditations where
I have a vision of my life as a flowing stream going almost of mythical proportions of life
where theres a flowing, a coursing river, a flow of life, of many lives, where the avenue
that sort of splits and changes and then refigures again. And its always in the same
direction. And being brought into the path with Mother and Sri Aurobindo has always
been a very powerful, grounding, very, very important element of context, giving context
to the experiences. The experiences by themselves are not important. Its the way in
which they get integrated into the larger self, and then manifested into transformation,
into what were actually doing, why are we even here.
I draw some of my meditations too. I have that [drawing of the river] actually, I
have it. That was actually a river even though it looks like a green, it was a river. And it
was above and below, you know, the higher and then the physical body but that the light



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was, there was something very, very serene about the flow of life. I dont exactly know
how to describe it, but that was the image that I had. When I had the experience that I
kind of did this drawing of, it was that I had many, many lifetimes and that they were
serene and flowing but that there was a lot of complexity and light and also very
grounded. I feel really physically placed.
Current Issues and Challenges
[The most challenging aspects of my spiritual practice are] probably
discouragement, depression, boredom, feeling disconnected. To me, boredom is feeling
disconnected. Im rarely bored, Im just not that kind of person, so when I find myself
feeling blah or not energized, low energy, depression, despair or discouragement, looking
around our world, the discordancy between the spiritual aspiration and the reality of our
world right now is very powerful; I find that who wants to be a Pollyanna? Who wants to
be a stupid idiotic girl who is unrealistic, ungrounded and not going anywhere, just
deluded? I suppose thats probably the biggest bummer of all. The most difficult is to feel
that there is a vision that one is aspiring towards in a world of transformation. Mother
says these wonderful worlds of delight are waiting to come down. Well, yeah, says who?
You know, so perhaps lack of faith. But I dont feel that way most of the time.
<Laughter> Most of the time Im pretty, Im a pretty upbeat, happy person.
I'm a big believer in routine things and also that if I change my behavior if I
smile, if I get up and go walking, if I do my yoga, if I do the things in my daily life, even
sometimes if its [pretty] bad I just start my day with I wash my face, I put on this cream
and I brush my teeth, I'm on the path. Its like, Get going, get moving and get into it.
Theres so many ways in which the practice over all these years is very deeply ingrained



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in many aspects of my life, the consciousness with which I do my grocery shopping, the
consciousness with which I grind my coffee beans. Because there are times where I'm
very, very consistent year after year at a pretty even keel, being very concentrated on my
aspiration and concentrating on offering and aspiring.
And that works. The aspiration doesnt go away, the candle doesnt go out. In the
book The Hour of God, Sri Aurobindo talks about its the hour of the unexpected and you
can go years, he is sort of more talking in the big grand sweep of human existence, but
there are times when much effort goes into the making of a little result. So the Dark
Ages, for example, you could have been a wonderful, spiritual, kind, gentle, peaceful soul
and you could have been surrounded by the plague and horrible hellish life with no light
in sight, right? Well, that was a bad life, but it was there, we all experience different
levels of that. If you keep the candle trimmed and you keep the temple readyits a
tradition all around, in all spiritual pathsyou keep the temple clean so that when the
god comes you are prepared and ready. And I'm a big believer in that. I believe it is
important to do daily practice so that when an awareness comes, when a grace is given,
when a spiritual experience comes, it doesnt come into a chaotic life, it doesnt come
into a place, into a heart thats closed. It doesnt come into a person who cant smile,
laugh and express joy. It comes into a person who has been striving and aspiring and
sincerely working for the transformation. So that theres days and days and months and
months sometimes, although I have to say that isnt quite as a bad, I dont experience it in
the depth that I used to. That is something of course that probably goes with age as well,
becoming more deeply and consistently harmonious with my whole personality. And now



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my life is much more smooth and Im really enjoying this stage in my life where I can be,
I think, much more deeply integrated. I dont struggle much with discouragement.
I guess I feel pretty blessed all the way around, pretty lucky to think that from a
pretty young age when a lot of times people are sitting there trying to find their place and
what/who is their teacher and what is their spiritual path and I had it handed to me on a
silver platter. I mean how many people [met the Mother at a young] age?
So that was always right there and it always felt to me like that was without
question a part of who I was. I never felt like I needed to make it happen because it had
already happened and I feel that it probably it was a result of past lifetime stuff. Mother
says those of us who are working on this path, we have worked on this before, this is not
the first time that we have worked together to bring light into the world. So I am thinking,
well thats probably true, not that Im a great, you know, I dont have past lifetime
experiences and stuff like that, other than in the terms of universal consciousness or how
you can get the feeling from a historical era or something like that where you can just get
this vibration of knowingness of a particular human time. So whats to look back? If
anything I feel that theres so much more to do, theres so much more to be done. I dont
know how thats going to shape up. I have a different sense of things in my life and
where Im going, what I do, but it all seems to be right on, it all seems to be
And Mother talked about theres two ways you can be in the world. You can be
like a cat or you can be like a monkey. Im sure that was an overgeneralization on her
part, but anyway. So the idea or image she was conveying was if youre a cat, youre like
a kitten, and the mother cat picks you up by the scruff of the neck and takes you along.
And Mother is the cat, the mother cat, and she said, Indians are like a kitten, theyll let



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me just pick them up and I can take them along. Westerners are like monkeys, they grab a
hold and they hold on for dear life, like its all on them. We believe weve got to hold on
because if we dont hold on, its not going to happen. Its harder for us to surrender and
to let it be that, let the Mother, let the grace, let that universal, uplifting love and light
carry us along. And Im totally characteristic of that as an American, Im a very driven,
goal-oriented, active person. But thats what I am. Im not going to be anything other
than that because that wouldnt be my pathtalk about being difficult. I mean, why
totally transform, why dont I transform what Ive got. My plate is here, its quite full. Ill
work on transforming and start right here, [rather than changing who I am, transforming
who I am already]. Because were all part of Mothers play and of this Divine experience
of existence. And its just quite miraculous that were even here, and that we are even
able to use our mind to such an extent, that we can even articulate and imagine such
things as consciousness and the cells and the transformative world and a brain that could
be a total receptor for cosmic knowledge. Its all there, we just have to open up to that,
which I do think we will do. I definitely feel that way, my positive Pollyanna self.
I think the most significant thing [in my sadhana] is being really grounded, really
grounded. There were times when I was younger where I really enjoyed being
ungrounded, out of my body, having out-of-body experiences and things like that. I
would almost pursue them as if those experiences in and of themselves were meaningful
and there was something to be learned from that, those experiences. And Ive since been
able to, in the years of my life, become much more reality-based I guess, reality with a
capital R, you know, really seeking reality, what is reality? How is it that we are



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grounded? What does it mean to be present and grounded? And its not presumptuous,
its not flashy, its not a sparkly thing. Its really pretty simple.
What Is Divine Love?
The other thing that Im in the process [of working on in my spiritual practice
that] Id like to learn more about is love. When Mother or Sri Aurobindo would say,
Indeed, it is all love; the Divine is love, what does that mean and how do you feel that?
How does it feel to have the awareness of the experience of love, of Divine love? What is
that? I guess that would be something I would like to explore and learn more about.
[Even thought one can view karmic yoga as love, that the service to humanity
comes from that source] it doesnt feel like that. I have a really strong vital, and my
energy of manifestation is very strong and I feel that it comes more from that. When I
talk about love or Divine love to me thats something, I mean it must be very powerfully
real, it must be very, very, very real, and not at all wishy-washy. Or maybe you feel it and
maybe you dont, maybe it exists and maybe it doesnt. Its as real as any of these
realities that we have in this room right now.
It is a palpable real thing. I think the Divine consciousness of love, the Divine
love is a very powerful thing. I think of the ancient mythologies of India and the gods and
goddesses or the goddess of love. They were embodied in a cosmology, it would seem,
that is such an entity of love and compassion. Kwan Yin, from the East, [is] another
example of the goddess as love. What does that mean, what is our awareness of that?
But the more interesting question to me is the one about the love and what is it
that motivates a persons actions. So the question is, are these altruistic works motivated
by love? And I have to say that, not in my most conscious mind or at least in that most



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active talking superficial mind, I would say no. My interest in life and the actions that
Ive taken in terms of my [work] or my donation of time to the projects for Mother and
Sri Aurobindo have been, its like it comes from a forward moving energy of a dynamic
force and thats what I feel. Im sure that could also have an element love in it, and if we
were to truly understand Divine love it could be something way beyond any
understanding. Thats what Im sort of grappling with, because love in some ways has an
emotional ring to it. But I think Divine love may be so far beyond our emotional
framework thats it probably beyond that. I'm seeking that, that would be my next level of
what I would feel to be enriching and meaningful on my path. Theres time when Im
really seeking more wisdom or more groundedness, more peace, more silence. And I feel
like those things are still there. But Im still challenged by the idea of really embodying
love, with being conscious and consciously experiencing it and then radiating that back.
What a powerful thing that could be.
Its an interesting subtle distinction between knowing that youre on a path and
being committed to that, to the path of a spiritual life. I dont know that theres any, to me
theres never really been much choice about it, it just seemed very much a fit, not like
something I could ever have left. I couldve gone away from that path. I think what Ive
accomplished to me feels very grounded and theres still a part of me thatmaybe thats
something too, is the idea that one can be on a lifelong spiritual path. And that is what I
feel is definitely a part of my life. And a very grounded part of my life is I am on a
spiritual path, and that is a reality of my life that I dont think is going to change.
Therefore, that is an accomplishment right there. The knowing of it and the commitment



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to it too, I guess thats another thing too. I dont feel flamboyant about it at all, I dont
feel here one day, gone the next. I feel deeply committed to that.
Everybody has a different starting point or a different place where their path is the
strongest and the most, most intuitive for them, the path of least resistance. I feel
supported in where the path of yoga opens up before me this way. I guess I would say
probably [my path is] through action, a more dynamic karma yoga, and then secondary to
that, intellectual, then mental. Its been, its really been quite a wonderful context for
understanding human existence, the rich beauty of human life. Mother and Sri Aurobindo
always emphasize that there are beautiful things in our lives and as human beings that
you can go get connected to the Divine. And so Ive always felt there's no reason not to
do things that are beautiful and not to have things that are beautiful, like the classical
music. I mean, I just finished doing the concert at the cathedral. Theres no reason not to
go to a cathedral and sing in a beautiful arching space where the acoustic is amazing and
you sing with these voices and you create a vibration and community. Beauty, thats one
thing about Mother and Sri Aurobindo, they never were narrowing in that way at all.
There was a place for everything, all life, all those that are complex, a richness of life. It
isnt a sterile thing at all, its very, very rich and full and meaningful.






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Devotee Story
Im calm and just interested to see how this goes, just kind of looking forward to
it; otherwise I'm calm and relaxed and in a good place.
Sadhana
I dont have too much of a set practice. I have a little bit of a routine. My [daily]
work is related to the yoga. Thats one aspect of it. In the true kind of karma yoga, one
should consciously do work as sadhana, as an offering while one is doing it. And I
wouldnt say that Im always conscious that Im offering this to the Divine while Im
doing it, thats still an intermittent thing. But just the fact that Ive made a decision to do
this work makes it an offering in some sense, whether Im always conscious of it or not.
Beyond that I keep fairly immersed in the writings of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, and
thats helpful and supportive of the sadhana. I think the writings keep me in the spiritual
aura [of], or some close spiritual connection to, Sri Aurobindo and the Mother.
I also engage in regular meditation and devotion, mostly every day, generally in
the evening usually for about 30 minutes or so. [It has] been my routine for [several]
years. Before that I [would] meditate occasionally. [Reading has been the constant]
throughout [my] sadhana, but I think much more now. That has been my mainstay of
connection with the yoga. I read quite voraciously in the beginning for a period of time
until I think I had like a pretty good grasp intellectually, at least, about these things.
Experiences
Differences in Experiences
Ill just say at first that theres a distinction between significant experiences and
ones that are startling or particularly interesting. And Ill talk about both of them a little



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bit. But I think probably the most significant experiences Ive had are a growing
quietness of the consciousness thats less disturbed by things that happen, and secondly a
consciousness that has with it a growing sense of closeness to the Divine.
So, I think those two things are probably the most important. Then, there has been
also an awakening to the aim in life and the direction in which I want to take my life. And
I think thats also a very important, fundamental thing that happened, but that came quite
early on, just by learning about this path a little bit. But to know where one is going in
life gives [an individual] a great degree of clarity and comfort in life that probably many
people dont have. And then, as part of that too, Ive developed a good understanding
about the nature of existence and consciousness and life and death, which is also very
comforting and helpful. So all of these things really give [me] a great deal of peace and
clarity and understanding about my life, which is very helpful. These are things that have
gradually evolved and started to develop relatively early in the sadhana.
Quietness and Protection
The development of more quietness in the consciousness and this growing
communionthat is clearly something thats evolved slowly over many years. And I
think [I] can continue to deepen in that as I go forward. The quietness is what Sri
Aurobindo talks about as the first stage, where there is more or less an absence of
disturbance. So Ive become very tolerant of other people and what people might say to
me or things that happen. I dont really get upset about things very much. Im on a pretty
even keel most of the time. There are times when I get upset still, but not often and so my
life is fairly quiet and settled in that sense.



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Then, with the growing communion with the Divine, I feel like I can at any
moment just turn within a little bit and feel some sense of the presence of the Divine
there, which has an immediate comforting effect and a feeling of inner fulfillment or a
sense of peace and deliverance. It gives a feeling that one is really in a safe place and is
protected and is being guided and led forward in life, and that its moving in a positive
direction where that feeling of security and happiness and growth will continue to
become more strong.
This sense of protection is a strong element of that [sense of Divine presence]. For
example, when things become a little unsettled in some way, or Im not real sure about
what will happen, sometimes I can turn within and then feel or call on this protection and
then feel really protected and safe within that. [Its] there, its just at the fringe of my
consciousness, and all I need to do is turn my attention to it a little bit and I feel that
support and that protection and presence there around me. [This is actually the impact of
Integral Yoga in my life. [The Divine is] there all the time and I have the sense that [it is]
there, but its when I tap into it that I become more aware of it being there all the time.
And then when I bring my attention to it, that experience actually deepens.] I think it has
permeated my life and my consciousness. But thats my normal state and it gets, well
lets say, it gets mixed with my own identity, but then if I can just concentrate outside a
little bit then I feel that other presence there.
All these things are very enriching. Its always a delight to have any kind of touch
of the Divine or experience of the Divine, whether its some aspect of the Divine or
image of the Divine or whatever. That makes life really interesting and adventurous and
fulfilling all at once.



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[The following descriptions are] spiritual experiences that sometimes just
happened over a minute or two or sometimes a little bit longer, but were intense. A
number of those have occurred over the years, and how much impact theyve had on my
life I dont know. In some cases maybe they were part of a process that was going on and
that opened something. In other cases they maybe just pointed towards some state of
consciousness in which eventually we need to evolve towards. So Ill talk about them.
Dreams of Sri Aurobindo and Mother
One of the things, especially when I was first starting with the yoga, but which
have happened intermittently over the years, [is that] I would have dreams of Sri
Aurobindo. It was as if he had come to visit me. He would come and I felt that he was
actually coming [from] the subtle world. In one of the most intense and memorable that I
recall, he was sitting with me and then he looked into my eyes; I think he might have
taken my chin and was looking directly into my eyes as if he was looking deep into my
soul. And then [he] said some things to me about my condition, the condition of my
consciousness or something, which I wont talk about. But I had a number of those
dreams over the years of seeing him.
And I also saw Mother in a number of dreams. I think one of the most important
things that these dream experiences did was really confirm my faith in Sri Aurobindo and
the Mother and the path. I mean, not that I had any real doubts about it at any time
actually, but these experiences, these dreams came soon after I had started. So I think
they really locked me into the yoga and really confirmed/made a strong base of faith in
me. But other effects they might have had by being close to them, I dont know.



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I had other dream experiences too. I mean Ive had probably many of those, and
not only just with [Sri Aurobindo and the Mother] but different things. Those are always
delightful when they happen and one remembers it. And its always a joy when that
occurs because its just a wonderful thing to see them or to talk with them or interact with
them in any way. Its a really enriching thing in life I think to have a personal relationship
with the Divine like that, that one can actually see and feel and touch, and thats
something very special.
Flashes of Light
And another kind experience, during the early years, [was] before I would fall
asleep at night I often had or would see flashes of light with my eyes closed. Generally it
was a white light, as if there had been flashes of lightening. Sometimes, even when your
eyes are closed and theres a bright flash of lightening outside, you can see that flash. It
was like this except there would be no lightening. And once there was this diamond-
colored light, which I read about later in one of Sri Aurobindos letters, [that] represented
some action of the Divine consciousness. So I had that early on but now that doesnt
come.
Infinite Space
One other [experience], this was kind of early [in my sadhana], was I had this
sense of the Infinite, some experience of that. It was a very intense feeling of outer space,
just this blankness of outer space that surrounded me on all sides. I was surrounded [and
living in it] and my life on this earth was just a tiny thing compared to that. I was
experiencing the power of that emptiness around, of outer space, of the universe. And it



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was very overpowering. And it lasted maybe an hour or so and then slowly faded during
the next two or three hours. So that was something.
Sachchidananda
I had another kind of intense experience of the Infinite that was very short that
lasted maybe about a minute, but this experience was very different. It had started in
sleep with an intense aspiration. It was as if this intense fire of aspiration [was] going
upwards, towards the Divine, much more intense than I ever experienced in my outer life.
It was something going on in the inner consciousness, which Im not normally aware of.
There was this ascending force, this strong aspiration going upward, and then it
culminated into some kind of transcendental state in which I entered. I think it might have
been some brief experience of whats called Sachchidananda, which [Sri Aurobindo]
translates as a trinity of infinite existence, infinite consciousness, and infinite bliss.
It felt like a state of complete fulfillment, something that was infinite but a
conscious infinite. It wasnt conscious in the sense of knowing facts, but it just felt like
everything was known, and that there was nothing else to be known. And you could say it
was delight or bliss, but I would describe it more just as a feeling of complete fulfillment
at that moment. This was something quite different than the earlier one, which was like a
blank or this experience of nothingness around. This was of an infinite, but some
consciousness-fulfilled infinite.
Those are some of the most intense, short-term experiences that I had, [including]
these next two experiences, [which happened] at a turning point in my life.



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Divine Force
I would call [this] an experience of the Divine force. This also began during sleep,
but I probably woke up during the experience. And its difficult to describe except that
there was this whirlwind of very intense powerful force working in me, or I was just
taken up by it. And I had the feeling that it could just tear me apart or drive me mad or
something; it was such an overwhelming intense force in which I was caught. All my
bearings were lost and I was just helpless in its grip and at its mercy. I think I was
conscious that it was the Divine power or force and I didnt really become terribly
frightened of it but I started calling the Divine Mothers name and repeating that. And
then I think it just did what it had to do in me and then subsided. It probably just lasted a
minute or two, I dont know.
Divine Love
And then a few years ago, I had another intense experience of what I would call
Divine love. This experience also began in sleep and lasted a few minutes maybe. In this
experience there was kind of a rhythmic beating and with each beat this powerful
outpouring of love was released. The quality and the substance of this love was
interesting because it was just pure love, nothing else, unmixed pure lovevery
powerful. The purity of it I guess was the thing so striking. There really is a thing, love,
which is not some kind of thing thats constructed by human beings or their relationships
or anything. So this beating and these big pulsations of this love were passing through me
and actually out towards someone who I loved. In a sense it was directed towards
somebody but it wasnt at all anything personal to me, it was just something that was
passing through me. It was some universal force or quality or something. Continuing like



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that with each successive beat, this thing would pour out and through me and outwards,
and again come, and it just went on for a few minutes. It was one of the most beautiful
experiences I think I ever had.
I think probably the experience of the [Divine] force came first and so it might
have been preparing something in me, I dont know. Then some time later, I came to
Pondicherry on a visit and while I was visiting I met this woman and fell in love. And it
was right around that time that I had this experience of this [Divine] love. It was directed
towards that person, but then that relationship for various reasons didnt continue
anymore. I think there was some kind of opening of the heart center with that experience,
because afterwards love came to me much more freely and easily. Maybe my heart center
had been more constricted or something before and then there was some opening and a
freer flowing of love from me afterwards. It was easier to feel.
But like I said, especially those early [experiences], they showed me the reality of
things that I would read about and they just gave more of a concrete sense of what that is
and towards which one is moving in the sadhana. So instead of it just being an
intellectual concept, I have some kind of feeling of what that is. Its a guide thats there.
[As well as a confirmation.]
Dream vs. Waking States of Consciousness
The experiences of the [Divine] force and the [Divine] love occurred/started when
I was asleep. But because they were so powerful and intense I then became conscious of
them. And then when the experience was finished I was awake. I think I became [aware]
during [the] experience. Perhaps I was still in some kind of inner consciousness, but I
was very alert and awake and watching the experience. The same with that experience of



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Sachchidananda, if thats what it was. Those flashes of light that I used to get, that was
before I fell asleep, so I was still awake when I had [them].
I was completely awake when I had that first experience of vacant infinite. And
then of course I had these dreams of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, and they were
dreams but [not dreams]. They had a more distinct quality generally than a normal dream,
[I was] more alert during those dreams. They were very clear, powerful dreams; they
werent really dreams, they were something else. They werent images of something,
[they were] experiences of the consciousness.
All these things are very enriching. To have any kind of touch of the Divine or
experience of the Divine, whether its some aspect of the Divine or image of the Divine,
its always a delight. That makes life really interesting and adventurous and fulfilling all
at once.
Movement of Energy/Force
[As to how the energy or force moves in these experiences, how they entered me],
they came completely spontaneously, kind of unasked. I think in [the experiences of
Divine force and love] they started actually while I was asleep. These are things
happening in the inner consciousness. When we sleep we can enter into that inner
consciousness more and so become conscious of it. These things are so powerful in that
they just kind of take over. Im not conscious of what was before them. At some point
they started and that was it, thats all Im aware of. I think in a sense they are Divine
powers, I mean, whether its force or love or whenever these things come from the
Divine. They come into the inner being, and then from there they come out when one
becomes conscious with the outer consciousness. So I think they descend in something



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that happens quite quickly. I dont think there is necessarily a long building up to it or
anything.
The [experience of Divine] love was associated with these beats, which may be
related to the beating of the heart or something. It was a rhythm, [a] beating, but the
heartbeat is faster than this was. These were really powerful beats and then it would sort
of go out. I think it was a slower rhythm, but with each beat, this powerful love would
come, and emerge from that. Through me and then out, it was something very vast. I was
like a conduit; it was just something passing through me. I dont think there was any
sound. What was impressing itself mostly upon my consciousness was this quality of
love. We talk about love in our interpersonal relationships, but these are very pale
reflections of what this felt like. It was so full and so perfectly itself. Only love, there was
nothing mixed with it. That was the thing that was impressing me about it. Whether it
was kind of flowing out, whether there was any kind of vibration with that, I dont know,
maybe a little bit, because it took some time. And there was a distinct feeling of it passing
through me and going out and directed towards my concept of the other person or
something.
The flashes of the light that I would have in the beginning, that was coming from
above, from above the head and into the head. That was clear and felt that way; it looked
that way. Ive also had other experiences where [I was] feeling something coming from
the top of the head too, like when meditating. Its a delight, some kind of movement of
force but [with] a very pleasurable sensation along with it around the head, almost
circling the head. So I think that also was something coming down from above.



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The experience of Divine love was probably centered in the heart but I cant
actually recall it being associated with a locality like that. It could have been coming
from there, but I dont know. It is hard to know.
These other experiences, well the one I had, there was an ascent of the
consciousness and then it emerged at the top somewhere like in some kind of
transcendental state. So there was a definite kind of rising and climbing up and shooting
out through the top of the head, and then there was this experience in which it
culminated. That other, that one of the blank infinite, it was this kind of like pressure,
where the emptiness of everything just became more and more real and powerful.
So that was like something coming also from above and down, because it was so
much bigger than me, it was like the universe or something. But, more above than below
I would say. I dont know that I was so conscious of it below me or, it was more above
like the sky, I mean, it was actually nighttime and I was outside and feeling the infinite of
space above me. [And I just kind of merged with it then.] I dont know how youd
describe it, but I felt it.] Its reality impressed itself upon me, very strongly.
Current Issues and Challenges
Impact of Experiences
Maybe its impossible to gauge what effects [my experiences] really had, but my
work with the writings of Sri Aurobindo and Mother are now my main work. Their
writings have always played an important part in my life. I have a natural ability or a
facility with [them]. I never had any difficulty understanding them. So [the experiences]
might have opened up something in me or at least facilitated some kind of integration of
the thought process with some kind of intuition and with this knowledge.



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The [experience] that I recognize more as associated with an ongoing process was
that experience of [Divine] love. Because I felt some kind of opening then, more of the
heart center during that period. Maybe it wasnt only related to that experience; that
experience might have been symptomatic of something that was going on in the heart
center. I dont know if it caused it or was a part of it. [But that opening is still there in me.
And] I did sense that even these flashes of light that I used to have in the early years, that
it opened up something in the mind.
Challenges: Dealing With Desires
I see myself as still very much a beginner in this, but I feel that maybe those
experiences had some effect in that they still may bear their fruit in the future. [I feel like
a beginner] because there is so much more to go. There are the difficulties in really
purifying the nature and getting rid of the ego. These things are still there in me so there
is still a great deal of work to be done.
These [experiences] are just kind of bright moments in the yoga, but actually the
day-to-day thing is quite different. The most challenging things have to do with rejecting
things in the life that are incompatible with the yoga, thats ongoing. When I first started,
from all appearances I was maybe one of the worst candidates for this yoga because
previous [to] that time I had been immersing myself more and more in alcohol, drugs,
and cigarettes. I was pretty close to the bottom of all of that when I learned about Sri
Aurobindos yoga, quite psychologically addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs. I was
taking all different kinds of drugs.
I tried to quit all these things when I started the yoga. That was very difficult and I
struggled with it for about 5 years. There would be periods in which I would stay away



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from it for a while and then I would fall into it again and be totally immersed in it. And
Id fight my way out again. What finally helped me to get out was that I decided to move
to [an Integral Yoga] center and out of the environment conducive [to] drinking and
doing drugs. So I got myself into that center and was finally able to put it aside, at least
temporarily. I did a little bit more later on, but never again was I really addicted to it and
allowed it to overpower me. It was more controlled after that and then that eventually
faded altogether.
A more formidable desire was sex. I think thats probably the strongest human
desire and its not easy to give up. I dont know, maybe its even more so for men, I'm
not sure, but Ive struggled with that right from the beginning. In fact, I wanted to give
that up right from the beginning.
At that time when I was starting the yoga I had been involved with a woman for a
couple of years, and we had talked about getting married. But when I was struck by these
ideals of the yoga and brahmacharya, I thought that was what I should do, and I decided
to end this relationship. That was probably nave because it wasnt too much later that I
became involved with somebody else and then in a way also refused to totally commit
myself to that relationship, which led to its dissolution after some time. [After] another
couple of years and I found myself again in another relationship. [I] started realizing that
there was a pattern going on and that maybe I wasnt going to be able to leave these
relationships at this point. [I] finally resigned myself to getting married, but even in
married life the sexual desire continued to cause [a] disturbance in my consciousness. I
continue to struggle with it.



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So thats been the nature for those obstacles or difficulties that Ive had, that most
intense desire. I have other desires of course, but theyre not really quite so disturbing or
powerful in my life. For example, money would be [an issue] for many people. I never
particularly felt a great drive to earn and make a lot of money, or have a lot of things that
was never [a] real focus in my life. Ambition is another thing that drives many people; I
never really had that as a difficulty. There are little things, little desires, that are there, but
they're not really too important and I could do without them, more or less. I could live a
fairly simple life; it wouldnt bother me. But with sex, I dont know, Ive always had to
struggle more with that. [These are forces of desire] theyre perfectly normal human
things, but in sadhana were supposed to get rid of desire. So when you work against
these things, then you feel the struggle.
Ive experienced this as often a disturbance in the consciousness where it will take
over, to a certain extent, or take the center field of my consciousness. I feel it interfering
with this other. Its a disturbance of a field of a consciousness of peace, of harmony, of
light. Theres this intrusion of selfish, pulling-towards-oneself something, and its
nagging, it doesnt go away. The clarity of the consciousness and all of that gets
disturbed for a period of time. So there are these continual breaks, lets say, in the clarity
of the consciousness, interruptions, and then that clarity will come back. So its not like it
is overcoming it or erasing it or anything, but its a temporary clouding that takes place,
and not only clouding, its more grating than that for me. I dont know. I continue to
observe it and try to understand it and try to work with it.
I understand it more and more. I was thinking about it in the [past few] days [that]
its really this part of the nature, this lower vital in people. Its very egoistic; it wants



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what it wants and it wants it now and it doesnt care about anything else. It doesnt care
about the rest of the being, it just wants it. So theres this part in me, I dont know if its
the same in other people or not, but its like most of my being is quite focused on the
Divine and committed to the yoga. I would say my higher vital, my mind, my heart to a
great extent, are all focused on the Divine. And then theres this rebellious lower vital
that still wants to go its own way. I think it needs to learn on its own, this more obscure
consciousness, to surrender itself and to lend its energy, to the sadhana, instead of just
taking for itself and doing what it wants. It has to fall in line but it doesnt like to do that.
I understand its a universal phenomenon. I mean Sri Aurobindo is writing about
this in the 1930s. This was there in all the sadhaks, or in most of them, and everybody
was having trouble really converting this lower vital. It is very difficult to convert, but I
think it needs to agree on its own. I dont know that it is really possible to impose
anything on it. In some sense you have to impose some kind of discipline on it and force
it, but it cant be completely that. It also has to learn on its own and agree on its own.
Probably what happens in this struggle that goes on [is] that the light touches it, or
it touches the light, and some kind of softening process goes on where it becomes a little
more conscious and a little less self-centered and selfish. And slowly something begins to
change through this kind of struggle that goes on. And then finally it gets to a point where
it is able to say, Okay, I agree, I see that my ways arent going to lead to anything, it
only leads to misery or unhappiness. And if I could lend myself to the Divine effort, I
know I could really help and contribute some real energy to it and so Im going to go
along. Something like that, but it seems like it takes a long time for it to actually learn to
do this. Its a little bit like what is done in psychotherapy. People work on the shadow



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part of the personality and then it gets to know the light side of the personality and the
two sides come into more agreement or conversation. And then gradually that dark side
gets enlightened, but there is this going back-and-forth for a period of time until that
occurs. [Until all the light gets in there and switches it.] So thats been a part of my
sadhana and my life over the years, the less enjoyable aspect of the sadhana.
An important aspect of my life with sadhana has been service. I want to give
myself more and more to the Divine. Thats sort of the aim, one gives oneself so
completely until theres nothing left, right? You just give yourself completely to the
Divine and then youre the Divine. I try to do that more and more in my life. I mean its a
real grace to be able to do that, to dedicate myself to doing work for the Divine. Because
I feel that this is a part of the work, that the Divine, that the sadhana is not simply in me,
this is a work thats being done in me and thats being done in the world. And to
whatever extent I can participate in the outflowering of the Divine in the world, I am
grateful to have that opportunity to do that. Its a joy.
I try to do it as much as I can. I still could give a lot more than I do. I continue to
try to do more though, to be smarter in my individual sadhana and overcome whatever
obstacles I might be facing, to grow inwardly more and more. I see a general progress
occurring over the years and it seems to be going okay, but I recognize there is so much
more to do. [I guess thats what keeps the aspiration and intention going too.] There [are]
also periods of greater intensity and then one gets more immersed in the physical or
something. And then one can sometimes come out of that and there will be a brighter
period and things seem much lighter and more progressive. There is some fluctuation or
cycles that one goes through.



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Gopal Story
[Right now Im feeling] just a little apprehension. [But when I get ready to go into
those spaces of my sadhana], I just try to be quiet and usually concentrate in the heart
center. And then occasionally I also kind of take a bath, over my head, bringing down the
force. Its a little bit like they do in vipassana Buddhist meditation. Theres a center over
my head and I visualize it coming down washing through my body. This is related to the
Mothers practice when she was going through the transformation and she would recite
om namo bhagavate. Its essentially aspiration and surrender. Those were the two
principles she always worked with. She worked them on herself and she said eventually
they combine and they work together.
Sadhana
It is impossible to confine ones yogic experiences in the yoga because all life is
yoga and all aspects of the being have to be taken up at some point in the process. We
cant really realize the extent.
Thats the puzzling thing about the yoga; there isnt really any methodology
except in a broad sense. And I think the reason for that is because as you go along you
have to adapt that for transformation of the body. The Mother did not like any methodical
practice and the only time she got into any kind of a mantra was when she was going
through the transformation of her own body. And that was the om namo bhagavate.
She would repeat that until that point when she said the cells would repeat it. Other than
that you wont find anything that I knew of.
The Mother, shes the one that gets involved. Shes kind of like the personal
contact. I dont know why. That just seems to be the way it works.



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In my interpretation of the yoga, its two phases, to make it easy. First is to realize
your psychic being that rids you of your karma and sets you free and its probably the
most pleasant and warm thing that can ever happen. The other is if you are going on for
the physical transformation, the bodily, then theres another whole other set and thats
why in my view they deliberately left the methodology so loose and broad based, the
aspiration and surrender.
Experiences
Floating in Space
I was in Pondicherry in meditation, nothing in particular. And I was in this space
where there are no structures and no features, nothing. It was very blissful. I would move
this way and as I moved it seemed like it created a path or line. I would move this way
and that way and I would get to a station and I then would go farther. But there was
nothing physical about it. No forms, no colors, just feeling of moving in infinity with a
great sense of freedom.
Initiation
I was [lying in bed] and this intense light came up through my feet to above my
head, then it exploded downward and everything was light, I was absorbed into that light.
It just filled the room and I just became the light, I guess you could say. After that I
started to sob. I was by myself and I was lying there for a couple of hours just trying to
comprehend and absorb it. Then I got up, and everything changed, just like that.
Everything fell in place. [I saw a friend over a month later] I walked in and we saw each
other and he noticed my eyes. He saw the change. Ever since that experience, the
connection never left. The expansion, I never felt that again, never returned. [But the



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connection to Sri Aurobindo and the Mother never went away] Very strong; it wasnt that
necessarily I felt them but I knew they were there. But it changed the whole outlook of
my life.
Kundalini Energy: Energy Moving from Root Chakra to Head
One Sunday evening I was in bed half asleep, just in transition and all of sudden I
felt this intense energy in the gut down here. It was like a fist and it was pushing up this
way and pushing that way. It was like it was painful but it wasnt. It was like a pressure. I
remember I was groaning. It went like that for a few minutes and up to about here and
then it stopped. For the following week I was very aroused sexually. That subsided after
the next experience. The next Sunday night about the same time it started in again from
there. I was just lying in bed I think and it started again and went higher but it wasnt as
painful or as much pressure and then it stopped again. And then, I believe it was three
weeks later, on a Sunday again, evening, it started right from where it left off, like a
balloon, it and went up and it got up to right about the heart level and a voice said,
Thats far enough. For years I thought it was my voice but it wasnt. And it stopped
and it never came back again. [It actually follows the lines of the chakra centers. It started
in the lower one, then your solar plexus and then your heart] to the heart center and then
it stopped.
Kundalini Energy: Lower Chakra and Sexual Desire
I had ceased to have any sexual desire for years. After reading Sri Aurobindo, I
found that purifying the vital was important because as we progress everything intensifies
including sensations, feelings and desires. So I hadnt had any issue with this aspect of
my sadhana. And then one time when I was flying home, I got on the plane [for the first



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leg of the trip. The trip involved a change of planes at one point] and sat next to a young
woman. Within an hour or so we talked and we became good friends. <Pause> Its very
emotional even talking to you now. Just before we [landed] I had the most intense
pleasure, not pleasure, intense feeling. I didnt know if, it was almost like it was going to
drive me nuts. It was more down here [in my pelvis]. It really threw me for a loop. I was
still recovering from this and [on the next flight] we had different seats, and she came up
and wanted to sit by me. I was eating and didnt offer to have her [sit down]. And then
we landed, she came over and said goodbye. It took me a couple of weeks to recuperate
from that. I dont know how to describe it. It was just so overwhelming. Anyway, I didnt
know what to make of that and I talked to [a psychic friend] about it. And she channeled
the Mother and Mother said I needed a little spice in my life. Its very strange. I dont
know how accurate that explanation is.
The reason I am bringing this up is because no matter where you are, there is
always something to work on in your body. You never reach perfection, at least, not until
you get supramentalized and it may not be in our lifetime. The Mother gives you what
you need, and I had no idea what was going on. I think it brought up something that
might have been repressed that needed to be expressed and that is as far as it goes. [How
were you able to process it?] I dont know, just time. It happened in my body and it was
fine and that was it. I think too, the psyche itself, reorganizes things because there are so
many parts of your being, particularly in this yoga, that advance at different rates, speeds.
Its easy to get out of whack. Thats why when I had [my initiation] experience, it took
six years before I had any more [experiences]. It took six years to assimilate that and let
the body, and it does it on its own. Theres nothing I do.



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Vibration and Expansion
Id go down [to the Samadhi at the ashram] and there was this vibration. The
Mother had just been put in. I would lean over and you could feel the vibration coming
through that marble. I just felt this vibration. And then one evening I walked out onto the
street and I felt this incredible energy, electricity, throughout my body, and it stayed with
me. It diminished, but it stayed with me for about 3 days. I could feel the energy coming
out of my fingertips for 6 minutes and it was just electrification. And then my
consciousness separated. I was in a circumference of several feet. I dont know how far
out it went. Its like there was no more I and the ego, what I would associate with ego
was something like down here and just something very small and insignificant. There was
no definitive point in my consciousness. I later concluded this was separation of the
Purusha (spirit) and Prakriti (nature, energy). My consciousness was off to the side and
down, it was like it was separated. I was in that state for about 3 days until it diminished.
No separation there. My senses were the same except that I had expanded. As I recall
there was no color. It seemed to me like it was just energy. Instead of here [in my body], I
was several feet out in circumference. I guess you could say no ego, no egocentric
position anymore. I couldnt work for 3 months I was just so diffused. I had to
deliberately bring my consciousness to a pointto focus. It was still with me.
Dream: Infinity of People
I am getting more into the body now. And this was a vision. It was a dream
experience. I was in a space where I was seeing people and I could see their auras very
clearly, which I generally dont see. And then I was told to stand in a particular spot and
as I stood there, there was this alien being in front of me with almond shaped eyes and I



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looked into the eyes and I could see into infinity. And there were people, I could see
people in there and I could see around the people as far as I wanted to. The person in
front did not obstruct my view of the person behind.
Subtle Physical vs. Supramental in the Physical
[In the other experience where I felt the subtle physical I was actually walking.] I
was walking, but it was in a vision, more like aI was walking but it was an out of body
experience. I didnt see myself walking. I was walking, but I was still in my room.
[Almost like bilocation.] I was meditating. I was sitting there and I just drifted off. But I
didnt leave the room. This other one [the experience of the supramental in the physical]
actually happened. I was out there in the dining room and the atmosphere changed and I
felt an increased sense of bliss and peace that was so natural. Im glad you brought that
up. The subtle physical experience was not related to my material surroundings. I was
just by myself in my room and just went off. The feelings were similarin the
atmosphere. I was actually in the body physically relating, walking. But the feelings were
similar. I think they were similar but one is not in the physical, one is in the subtle
physical and one is in the physical but like it was superimposed. This is what the Mother
was experiencing. She was exploring, experimenting, and things were happening. She
was trying to put these into words. So when I got back and read this, I said thats exactly
what it was; otherwise I would not have known what to make of it.
Current Issues and Challenges
Impact of Sadhana
Transformation of the body and the cells is different. You dont have the grand
experiences. Its what I call the blue-collar labor with the cells. You dont know whats



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going on until you have an experience. In this phase of the yoga your body cells have to
be purified and cleansed so that the light and energy is released. Ultimately this will lead
to an enlightenment in the body instead of the traditional out of the body, nirvana.
A lot of people will dispute this and say its not possible. What helped me is
Satprems book on embodying the vibration of the supramental. It is a vibration. And this
is what the Mother was working on. She was trying to bring this vibration into the body
and have it established there so it stays. She could do it but it wouldnt really stay at first.
It would leave and so the idea was to get it fixed. She did this that is her gift to
humanity. This is what I felt in the 90s. I felt the vibration continuing moreuntil it
stayed. It could be misinterpreted but when it first happened it was very strong. You
know you just feel the vibration. Now its more subtle, but if I reflect on it a bit, its
there. It makes your body feel alive, Mother says it feels like a fever but its not in a
negative sense. Its just a heightened awareness, a rush. And its still there, for me this
was the goal, it is the goal.

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Janaka Story
Im feeling some anticipation, some uncertainty, just as you would when you're
entering a path in the forest, wondering what this is going to bring. But while we were
meditating, I was basically asking Mother for her permission for our conversation, and I
felt a very strong yes from above.
Sadhana
In his booklet The Mother, Sri Aurobindo really articulates the central process of
Integral Yoga as far as Im concerned and as far a lot of people Ive spoken to are
concerned. And thats a threefold movement of aspiration, rejection and surrender:
Aspiration for the change and for the light to come, rejection of all that which stands in
the way of that change in consciousness. And then surrender to the Shakti and the
consciousness that wants to manifest. Its just this beautiful cycle: aspiration, rejection,
surrender, aspiration, rejection, surrender. And I think theyre not equal and you work on
different ones at different times. I mean, in the beginning you have to work on your
aspirations or else youre never going to go anywhere, youre not aspiring. Thats really
the fire, the agni, that moves you along the path. And the surrender is really responding to
that which comes as a result of the aspiration. And then every so often you get knocked
off the path and thats when you have to do the rejection, and say, No, no, thats not
where I wanted to go. <Laughter>
Since then Ive heard it summarized even further as remember and offer. And
thats really kind of more getting back to the karma yoga: focus. Theyre not separate,
theyre related in many ways. So remember and offer, I mean that will take you all the
way. <Laughter>
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Sometimes, in the early to mid 80s, I began meditating once a day, first thing in
the morning before getting dressed. Later on, probably a few years after that, I started
meditating at night before going to bed as well. And the evening meditation was more
just sort of a review of the day, you know, not even a mental review sort of, Okay, here
is whats left over, the unprocessed stuff from today, and please take it.
[My sadhana has] evolved over time. Mother has described different meditation
practicesactually, she distinguishes between meditation and concentration. And what I
do is more concentration. Meditation opens you up and takes you to a lovely space and
then you stay there and then when you leave it stays there and [then] youre back in your
life. Concentration is more, is more dynamic. So she described specific types of
concentration, either focusing in the heart or in the forehead, the center or above the head,
each one having its own particular strength. Basically she would say whichever you're
drawn to, and thats one of the things I love about this yoga is the freedom. Neither Sri
Aurobindo nor Mother laid down any kind of creed or set of distinct practices that must
be followed to be saying that youre practicing the yoga. They just laid down the broad
outlines, central, I dont know what you would call them, truths I guessprinciples,
principlesand then let each one put them into practice then in the way that suited them
and drew them. So Mother talks about concentration and different ways of doing this. I
tried the different ones and ended up focusing mostly on the heart, but even there itd
vary from day-to-day. Id mostly be focusing on the heart and then Id feel an energy
above the head, and so thats where it would be that day or that week or that month.
The other thing Sri Aurobindo writes about in a different place in that booklet The
Mother, he talks about the Mother, the Shakti, the Divine Mother, actually doing the
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sadhana, doing the yoga, And that part of the spiritual growth in the yoga was learning to
be able to see that. Not that it wasnt happening but when were deeply involved in our
ego its always, Im doing this, Im doing that. And the idea/concept of having the
spiritual force actually moving me along without my knowledge is so alien to that
egocentric awareness, that its one of those things, well, you take it on faith.
So part of my practice, then, in the meditation/concentration would be just trying
to look and see, and feel really, where that force is leading me now, and just sort of trying
to follow it. And then, say I felt it moving into a particular aspect of my life, and saying
Okay and moving there myself and just trying to relax, trying to will that part of me to
open and to receive, and then just sort of following it.
So its just a combination of those different, whatever you call it, techniques,
modalities, processes, you know, combined with the karma yoga during the day. And
then, at a certain point, there was a realization about the difference between experience
and realization. It was probably some time in the mid 1990s that the psychic being
opened, only I felt it being more and more active over the years, you know, and being
more and more palpable. It felt like there was a place there where there hadnt been one
before. But at one point, what both Mother and Sri Aurobindo referred to as a reversal of
consciousness came and all of a sudden it wasnt me seeking the psychic being, I was the
psychic being, and an identity was forged.
I dont know if theres a direct correlation, but I guess it was around that time [of
this experience or the waterfall of light, bliss, and fire] that there was a shift. Previously, I
had been on what Sri Aurobindo calls the path of jnana [yoga] of knowledge, inner
knowledge, of wisdom, philosophy and inner experience. That was kind of my natural
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bent up to that point. But at the same time I had, a few years earlier, rejected living a life
of the mind, feeling like that was just too narrow and too dry and I needed more, I needed
something more in life. My focus began to shift after reading The Synthesis of Yoga to
more of a focus on the karma yoga, putting it into practice rather than simply thinking
about it; and kind of daydreaming about [the] spiritual, you know, about supermind and
Mother and Sri Aurobindo. So I remember I got a series of real dumb jobs. Sri Aurobindo
writes that there is no work that is more spiritual than another. That any work can be
made to be spiritual depending on the attitude you have, the right attitude. And I think it
began when I was working for a copy place, just making endless copies (that was before
the process became mechanized). I remember just opening the thing, changing the paper,
putting the new paper in, closing the cover, hitting the print button, and just saying, This
is for you, this is for you, this is for you, this is for you. And for me that really helped to
ground the process. It was a real struggle at first too, because I would think, This is for
you oh thats stupid. This is for you MotherOh God, you dont want this. You want
something great; you dont want this dumb thing. <Laughter> So Id keep doubting it
and questioning it and fighting against it, but I kept at it. And probably I wouldnt have
had the stamina and endurance to do that, to stay with if it hadnt been for that [waterfall
(see Experiences: Descent of Light and Bliss)] experience. Because I just somehow knew
that, well, I dont remember what made me think that that was what I needed to do. At
one point it made sense, but then it was trying to put that inner knowing into practice. I
guess part of me knew that thats really where the rubber hit the road, you know, trying to
put it into practice, but the vast majority of me said this is stupid. <Laughter> And so it
was just kind of working that out. <Laughter> And trying to develop the habit of
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referring everything to the Divine, referring everything to Mother, and thats a habit that
is still being worked on. I mean, its endless, because youre always finding new places
that havent gotten the memo yet, but thats the process.
I kind of gave up, I dont know if I ever totally gave it up, but I stopped thinking
about moving [to Pondicherry or Auroville] probably in 1990 or so. And part of this is
because I had met so many people here in the States who had been either told by Mother
or felt an inward push to leave India. Theyd been at the ashram, theyd been in
Auroville, and felt like their work was in this country and/or in some cases Mother had
told them their work was in this country. And so I felt like America needs this yoga too,
so I just had to decide that that was where my path lay. And I have a very deep love for
this country, although its sort of like the love for a sibling who has gone astray,
(laughter), and drinks himself under the table every night, pretty wayward. But I just
know I love this person and Im never going to stop loving this person, and maybe if I
just keep holding that space of love, that eventually will work, get through to all the
people you love, him or her, and help to reawaken the soul.
Integral Yoga and Being in a Relationship
Symbolic of my whole relationship with the yoga [is that] its kind of competed
with my relationship with [my spouse, who is] not a devotee. She has her own unique
spiritual path, which involves the Divine Mother. So we meet at Mother and we respect
each others path as well as possible. When I would have dreams of going off to live in
the ashram or joining Auroville or something like that, she was having none of it. And I
had to make a choice. And, I always thought it was significant that I met her pretty much
around the same month that [I was introduced to Integral Yoga]. To me thats the
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message that theyre both to be in my life. So I've just had to somehow make
accommodations with both. <Laughter>
Difference Between The Mother and The Divine Mother
Theres the Mother, Mirra Alfassa, there's Sri Aurobindo, then there's the
consciousness that each one of them represents. Then theres the Divine Mother. It gets
confusing because Sri Aurobindo named Mirra Alfassa Richard the Mother, so you refer
to her as the Mother. But then, and he said, she, that French lady, was the embodiment of
the Divine Mother, in pure form, more perfectly than had ever been embodied in the
world. I dont know that, but I know that I trust Sri Aurobindo. And if he says it, I'm
willing to take it on faith. She said that he was the representative of the Divine, the
Avatar. I dont know that, but I trust most of what she says so Im willing to take that on
faith. So when I refer to the Mother, the Mothers workings, Im referring to that Divine
Mother, who is everywhere, who is the representative of the one Supreme, and does his
works in the world. And in fact is the creatrix of the world.
Experiences
Each [experience is] profound when it comes, each one feels like its the most
important thing thats ever happened to me.
Descent of Light and Bliss
I had this experience, which Ive had repeated a few times since but this was the
first time Ive ever felt anything like this, and which I have heard other people describe
having these experiences.
It was an experience of that greater self coming sea-like, as if someone had
opened the floodgates in the ocean pouring in, and it not only filled me but it was as if I
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was standing in the middle of a waterfall, and I was just completely caught up. I didnt
want to draw myself away from this experience, which went on all day and night. I felt it
filling every fiber of my being, it was bliss, it was power, it was light.
I mean when I say a waterfall, Im trying to get the image, but it wasnt watery,
you know, it was on fire. It was a warmth that was burning and cleansing, cleansing fire,
purifying. It was amazing. <Laughter> I guess, to use more direct language, you could
say that it felt like a stream of energy pouring down from above. The word descent truly
describes it. I think there were colors; I didnt notice them so much. But when I think
back on it I think about colors and lights. Bathing is too mild, I mean, it filled me and
took my breath away. And it was just a constant movement like that, filling me, pouring
into me. It bathed all the cells and fibers of my body and my being. My only effort was to
try to stay in the center of that, to stay and to just offer myself for that, as a way of
surrender, surrendering totally.
I remember sort of seeing the world around me as being kind of dream-like, and
sort of a dim shadow. It wasnt the kind of spiritual experience where your perceptions
are completely altered. I could still see everything, I could still relate, react. I just wasnt
interested, because that wasnt the interesting stuff that was going on, [it was] this inner
experience of just this constant descent. Whats interesting about doing this interviewing
process with you is, since Ive contacted you and we started talking about this and I was
thinking about my history, that I realized that that moment was the beginning of Sri
Aurobindos centenary, 1972. And I never put that together before. And Mother said that
Sri Aurobindos centenary would bring a new transformative light and force into the
world.
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And, I remember, we even went to a party, and afterwards [my wife] said, You
know youve got to come back. I cant have you leaving me like this. And, I did resist,
but finally, I mean I kind of remember sort of asking permission from that inner light and
feeling like, okay, well this is something I need to do, stay in this life and in this body.
And, so anyway, that pretty much ended that experience.
[Spiritually, how did that affect what you did from then on?] It was the first
tangible proof that this was real. So it strengthened my faith immeasurably, not that I had
a whole lot of doubts before that, because, like I said, [Integral Yoga] fit like a glove, the
whole philosophy and the spirituality of it. But this deepened it to the point of, there was
another quote I had thought of earlier, the phrase from Savitri is, And leaves its huge
white stamp upon our lives. So it was that kind of a feeling. I was the same person but I
had been changed from it. So I guess you could just say that it solidified me on the path.
Current Issues and Challenges
That first one [experience of the waterfall of light and bliss] we talked about [was
the most challenging] because it was completely, completely unexpected-well, theyre all
unexpected, [awaited, but unexpected]. Thats right, thats right. [Expected, but
unexpected] Right. I like awaited but unexpected. This was neither awaited nor expected.
And I had no idea what was going on except the word descent, which I had read so I
tended to that word, but just the absoluteness of it. And then what do I do with it? Does
this mean I have to go out and buy a plane ticket to India, which is what I wanted to do?
And then there was that choice to be made, well its either the yoga or my wife, so pick a
choice. <Laughter> Not a pleasant choice to have to make. [I can see how that would the
most challenging] Yeah, and, you know, its not the only time I've been faced with that
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over the years, it has come up over and over, but that was first time. [Does it get easier?]
No, well, it didnt up until recently and I feel like I finally resolved it. But yeah, that was
an ongoing struggle, you know, do I follow the yoga or do I follow daily life? Do I want
to go join an ashram, any ashram? So it was that idea of just wanting to completely pour
all of my life into this spiritual quest. What I finally realized is it is a much more difficult
choice to accept daily life and follow a spiritual quest, than thats really where the work
is.
Ive learned to avoid words that expand, like big, major, and significant. Because
its not helpful to me, it tends to draw me off. And it feeds into the minds tendency
towards, whats the wordgrandiosity. For me, the word I'm most comfortable with is
true. There are degrees of being true, you know. True is a moving target. <Laughter>
And sometimes youre in the outskirts of true, and sometimes you're kind of coming into
the suburb of true. But I feel like I'm in downtown true right now.

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Lizzie Story
Im just trying to sort of be in the moment. I've been tired all morning, sleepy and
sort of wrestling with, I dont know, checking back to sort of, the vision that Ive had of
being in the airplane and flying and being kind of drowsy, and then instead of stopping
we went to a second thing to launch off and I kind of stirred myself and said I have to be
awake for this, because its too spectacular.
Sadhana
In terms of actual [spiritual] practice, well, before my kids and then after my kids
have gotten older, meditation has been a part of it. Nowadays I try and spend probably
about half an hour in quiet right after I get up, before the rush of the day begins, sitting
quietly. And these days its going through sort of a visualization about the crystals of the
chakras, going [through] the fire, earth, air, water cycles with them and then putting them
in the light and then the light being back inside me. Specific meditation has varied
tremendously. Ive done vipassana. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother dont teach a particular
type of meditation. And so its just kind of sitting and being aware, and sometimes its
spending the whole time realizing that theres been chatter in my head and sometimes I
come out and go, Oh, wow, that much time has passed, and I've been quiet. And so
theres not a particular focus except just being there. Its always been my intention to
carry the spirit world into my physical world. I mean even before I was involved with Sri
Aurobindo and the Mother that seemed to me that there wasnt any point in having a
spiritual life if you didnt make it integral with your physical life.
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Experiences
Early Experiences That Led Her to Integral Yoga
[I have] memories of always having a sense of there being a God. I remember at
one point [while attending church and] going, Okay, I really dont know enough to pray
for everybody in the world, (laughter), I just have to let God take care of that part. And
then at age 13, being in a class and we were going to do a debate and the debate was
[whether] capital punishment should be abolished and I didnt know what I felt about
that. So I just kind of offered it up to the Divine to tell me what was the correct answer on
this. And every time Id start to think about it, Id go, Nope, Im offering this, nope I'm
offering this, nope, Im. And after about three days an answer came very, very
clearly, and from that perspective then I went and did my research and was able to argue
both sides with quite a bit of conviction, quite a bit of success. From that came to me the
very concrete understanding that if you trusted the Divine, the Divine would take care of
you, and it took self-discipline, not trying to wrestle with it and figure out and solve it
yourself but trust, which is a good reminder for me right now. <Laughter>
Animals as Guardians and Shamanic Elements of Her Life
Id had experiences as a child [of animals as guardians. My] family had moved
into a big house and if I had a bad dream, it was a decision of, Do I want to get up and
walk all the way to the other end of the house to see my folks or do I want to just find
another way to deal with it? And what emerged was a lion that would come and walk
with me and, whatever terror had been there, take us both to a woman called the
washing lady, a woman in the middle of a forest with a washing machine and a dryer,
who would resolve our differences and make it safe to go back to sleep.
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Its interesting having gone to this shamanic workshop [recently] and realizing
how much of that element is there, described as shamanic, has been a part of my life, the
idea of animals as guardians. At one point it was interesting, we did a journey to meet an
animal guide, and I met this animal, I think it was maybe an oryx. And I kept going, But
its supposed to be a lion. Its supposed to be a lion. And eventually I saw that there was
a lion there. I went over to it, and it basically told me, But for right now, the oryx is
going to show you something. Im here, Im always here. [So Ive had] that facility with
the animals, with their presence, with their being, with calling on them and working with
them, moving into different worlds, finding different ways. [A friend] was talking about
how people tend to pick one or the other. But I feel very comfortable going in both
directions, going up to spirit guides that are more human form or going to lower worlds
with the animals, which is not in a negative sense but just a different level.
So seeing that and feeling that. Ive collected rocks because they were beautiful
colors but I've had dreams of being shown caches of jewels and being told, Theyre
yours when you're ready, and knowing that I wasnt ready [before but] suddenly now
realizing Okay, I am ready for them now. And so now [Im] working with crystals and
stones.
Animals in Healing
[Note: This excerpt is from my interview anecdotal notes with Lizzie that explains
Lizzies following comments. Interesting synchronicityId known for the past week that
the recording from our first interview wasnt useable and agonized over what to do and
how to tell her. A few days ago I decided to give her the option of doing the interview
over the phone or not participating. I was a little anxious about this. I kept putting off
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calling her, forgetting to do it. Finally, yesterday afternoon I knew I had to call her. It
was a type of inner knowing that this was the right time, for whatever reason. I called and
she didnt hesitate about redoing the interview. It worked out best for her to do it the next
day. She had had a biopsy done on (one of her abdominal organs), which has been the
cause of abnormal tests and thought to be associated with her tiredness. We talked a
while about what had been happening to her. She related her experiences with a shamanic
journeying class. Her brother had been diagnosed with cancer this year and in thinking
about how she might help him she just imagined sitting with him and putting her hand on
his arm, just to hold a healing space with him. Suddenly, spontaneously, she was pulling
a long snake out of him. She didn't know what to do with it, so she tried killing it by
snapping its neck. Smaller snakes came out of it, and one went into her. She was aware of
it, and chose to let it stay, without really knowing what would happen. The others she put
into the ground, since she couldn't kill it. Shed had no shamanic training at that point,
but figured maybe she should get some, if this sort of thing was going to happen. She
remembered clearing herself but something made me ask if she had checked to make
sure the snake was gone completely. I somehow wondered if her health problems
stemmed from that encounter.]
By the way, I wanted to thank you for asking me yesterday if I was sure that all
the snake energy was gone. Because I went back and looked and there was a nest under a
rock, with the hatchlings coming out. [I got it in time] and then I called in a mongoose to
make sure, just basically to make sure that everything had been cleaned out. It followed
them into the stream. I really appreciated your bringing that up. I probably was not as
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thorough, just thinking, Oh there was only one going in. I didnt think about it laying
eggs.
Experience of The Mother
My experience of her [the Mother] never quite gelled in the physical. We were
there for a darshan, maybe two, and I was never able to connect with that physical
presence. But I did connect very strongly on a nonphysical level. The particular
experience that Im thinking of she was still in the body at that time. We had written at
one point about doing a group thing here [in the States] and her response was Well, how
does it help the work? My blessings are for the work. And I just absolutely loved that
she wasnt going to make a decision for us. <Laughter> That she said this is what you
want to be concentrating on, and it really doesnt matter what your outside form is. And
that felt very honest to me. That was what I needed to remove the sense that here was
somebody setting herself up to make decisions for other people,
I had, actually, two very strong experiences. Both [revolved], around my son. He
had a serious concussion [when we lived in India] and we had to be in the hospital for a
number of days. Indian doctors are not very communicative with their patients, and
theyre just terribly offended if you ask them questions. So I felt very much alone in that
sense, but also very much surrounded by the love and protection and good wishes of all
the people who knew and cared about us. We were in the Women and Childrens
Emergency Room part of the hospital, on the childrens side, which was a bunch of little
cribs, and the mothers who stayed generally slept on the floor underneath the things
which was just cement. I would sleep on the mattress next to him. And at one time we
asked if there was another place. He was throwing up, he wasnt taking anything
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internally and he was sleeping all the time. And we said, Is there is a private room we
could have? Because I was right at the door and even at night there was a spotlight
shining on me. It was really very intense, and all these Tamil women who didnt
understand English and I didnt understand them. And we went to look at this other room.
It was a large room, there was only one patient in there with a burn tent around them.
And I stood at the door and kind of went, We cant be here. This room has death in it,
we cant be here, we have to be at the other place.
And I dont know whether it was that evening or the next evening, I was trying to
express my milk because he wasnt nursing and my breasts were really uncomfortable.
And the ladies let out this big whoop of a cry, telling me to give it to the baby, and I
was trying to say, The baby doesnt want it, and it came out, I realized much later and
with my terrible Tamil, that [I said] I didnt want the baby. And finally the night nurse
came in who was this lovely woman. She knew English, and so she listened to them and
then she turned to me and I explained what was happening and she explained then to
them and they then settled down. So we had a good conversation and she told me what I
needed to do to get my breasts to relax and release the milk, and she also said that he
needed to have glucose water cause he would be getting dehydrated. And, I thought,
Why hasnt anybody told me this? He has been seen by the doctor twice and the doctor
didnt say anything about glucose. So the next day we managed to get glucose water and
hed take it and keep down, and immediately he started getting better. So part of his
problem was he was just really dehydrated.
So I felt like staying in that room had been listening, listening internally to the
guidance of where to be. And though it was far more uncomfortable for me to be in that
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room, it was still the correct place to be. I had that inner trust and the ability to listen and
say, Yes, this is where I have to be, even though its not comfortable for me to be here.
So I found that very interesting, that intense support, both from other people but also I
felt very much from the Mother, the guidance, the clear direction from her, knowing you
need to be here, not there; that was very strong for me. And I think that had begun to
develop even before we went [to India], that Id begun to trust.
Then the next time was when he was older [but] still waking up in the middle of
the night and it was exhausting. And one night I just felt like I couldnt bear [it], couldnt
take it and I didnt know what else to do. I didnt feel like I could force him, and so again
I just prayed, with tears coming down, This is just so hard for me. What can I do? And
she came physically, a light and physically there and basically said, You have to do
what youre doing. You dont get to choose what the right thing is; youre doing the right
thing. But in saying that it took away all the pain and the suffering and the agony and
the wrestling and the, the attachment and I just was in a place of total surrender for about
three weeks. It was a magical place. Things got done without resistance, they just
happened. Id get up, Id do what I needed to do, I didnt wrestle with it, I didnt have
any angst about it, I just did it and things just flowed, and it was wonderful, absolutely
wonderful, and I felt protected and cared for. The house stayed clean because there
wasnt the resistance there.
And eventually my ego came in and thought, Oh, well lets see if we can do
this, and, you know, once it came in then it all came [to a halt]. But I have often felt that
this was sort of showing me whats possible and [what I can] do to get that state back on
a permanent basis or even on a semiregular basis, that I had been shown what was
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possible. I tried very hard to make it happen again. You know the trying is not what
makes it happen. <Laughter> Its the not trying in a way. And I certainly had the
understanding of what was possible. And Ive had moments and theyve come for
periods, not as clearly, not as perfectly as that particular first one, but just a sense of
being in, in the flow of things, of trusting, of understanding, [and always feeling the
Mothers presence.] But then, of course, some very deep personal struggles where I felt
like Im losing ground, Im falling, Im slipping. And yet the fundamental understanding
was theres no going back, you know too much, you cant go back to an ordinary life, you
cant. I mean, its just, its not possible. So even if you feel like youre stuck in the mud
you know what its like to be on those mountain peaks and you cant just stay in that
mud, you have to keep trying to get out. <Laughter> And trusting that, yes, the time will
come when you do.
Dual Awareness
I talked a little bit about that divide between the physical and the spiritual thinning
such that I can go and feel, experience both at the same time. I mean a presence,
awareness of the spirit world and that seems, lets see, how would you describe it?
Because this sense of both happening at the same time for an ongoing thing [is] fairly,
really recent. I guess its the light, the light both in terms of weight and a visual light,
there alongside the concreteness of the physical world and a sense that the veil between
them is very thin. It hasnt gone away and totally fused, though theres elements of that,
. <Sigh> And its not about individual guides or gurus particularly but just the
lightness of the spirit working with the concreteness of the body. I guess to be most
accurate, it is an awareness of them both there at the same time and its probably certain
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chakras up, maybe from the heart chakra up, that has that consciousness and the lower
chakras not so much yet. Its sort of enveloping me, its sort of a feeling of almost like
there was a line down through my body and half is on this side and half is on the other
side. And probably, in terms of my functioning, its more outside than inside, but the
awareness is very much part of me. [Its as if this sense of the being in the spirit world,
on the other side of the veil. I can feel it in me and then from there, I move around in the
terrestrial world taking it with me]. It moves with me and its an interesting sense. And
its not constant by any means, but it has been more in the last year or so. [And it doesnt
carry a sense of mass or heaviness, but] its a lightness. The physical world is the mass
and the heaviness. The spirit world is light, both in terms of visual light and weight. Its
light in every sense of the word, light. Its a spontaneous thing. I mean, I have been
continuing to concentrate on making sure I get in a daily meditation and I think at one
point I am sitting down [in] that sort of waiting period, and going, All right, whats
coming or what do I need to do next? That and looking and saying, What has been
most important to me in life? and realizing that this spirit, bringing the spirit into
fullness in my life is the number one most important thing that carried through for my
life. And to acknowledge that has been, well, interesting I guess, because in looking at
that, I mean, its always been there to my awareness. Theres always been that duality as
well. But you also have to function in the world and what do you want in the world, and
da, da, da, da. And suddenly Im going, I dont have to separate those two. What I want
in this world can be spiritual growth and development and integrating into this life, and
that can be a reason for being just as much as doing some thing concretely in the physical
world.
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[That if I can get the being down, the doing is effortless]. Its more than what is
done. As long as it isnt something that goes contrary to that spirit, it doesnt matter so
much what the actual doing is. [It would translate to flow.] When that awareness, that sort
of double awareness thing [is present], there is very of a much a flow and a joy; its very
interesting, very interesting. It would be kind of in and out for a period of time, days or
even a month. It was very strong [for the past few months] and it was a very big
challenge physically in many respects.
I havent sat down and done [shamanic] journeying particularly because its so
easy for me to slip back and forth to be in touch and to feel all these levels at the same
time. And maybe thats part of what is emerging in terms of this dual thing. I dont need
to go into an altered state, its there. That altered state is just with me. And I do sit in
meditation and I do try and be quiet and I think there are certainly states of being that I
could cultivate. For example, [if I want to] go and visit, go sit at Matramandir, I just, I
find that I'm there, I just feel [without having to physically be there. I just picture it and
Im there]. I mean if I can be in a quiet place. I can go and be there. And really be there
as much as I am if I am there physically. Thats kind of nice. <Laughter> And it helps,
oddly enough it helps, I mean, it seems a weird thing to say, but its sort of a grounding
thing as I wrestle with the physical world. [Knowing that you can be in both worlds at the
same time] and that the other one is there for me at any time. I dont need a separate place
or ritual or anything, its there and its part of who I am. It feels like a very big shift to me
in, in many respects, and yet it has sort of emerged subtly. And the thing that I find
interesting, we often think of grounding ourselves in the physical but I feel more
grounded in the spiritual.
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Light Ascending and Descending
I have mostly ascending I think, aside from sort of the animistic thing, the shaman
thing, because those are both ascending and descending. But just a non-thing of
descending/ascending into the light and having light descend into me is a fairly strong
thing thats been happening also recently. And its mainly to go up, and once youre in
that light then theres nothing that concrete that comes back with you. I mean, youre just
there. So its going up and just being filled and being there and not having a sense of a
body and not having a sense of anything else but this light. I usually come back with a
great sense of calm and peace and/with a sense of it staying with me, but I dont have
particular emotions or sensations. Actually, there is sort of a physical tingle as I come
back.
[So Ive had pretty much the feelings of ascending more often than the
descending and then just the experiences of the light just happens to be there, Im
emanating it, rather than it coming or going. Actually, light appears three ways: I ascend
into the light, it can descend into me through a column and then it can emanate from me.
Lots of choices. <Laughter> For someone who wants to have choices, thats great
<Laughter>]. Its funny, I think probably the only time that I do that intentionally is the
emanating from me times, particularly if Im trying to send it to someone else or some
protection of some sort. And honestly I can call it in whenever I feel the need to send it
out, sometimes one way, sometimes the other. Sometimes I have to call it in first, but
sometimes its just there.
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Widening of the Etheric Body
And Ive also had physical sensations of expansion physiologically. I talked to
[my spiritual mentor at the ashram] about that. Id had that since childhood. And he said,
Thats you experiencing your etheric body, growing out and experiencing the wideness
of your etheric body. I would say [it expands] two feet out probably. Sometimes it
[happens when Im meditating]. I think as a child it would be when I was just lying in
bed. Sometimes [at work], just all of a sudden the body feels really big, just feeling the
outer limits of that, as the outer limits of my body rather than the physical form.
Communicating Soul to Soul
Frequently people have told me subtly, I mean on the spirit level, that they were
going [leaving, dying]. The first time I was aware of it was [from] a 14-year-old child and
I was just shocked, and then a month later he did go. So at some point, I was wrestling
with this as a knowledge, and Ive finally come to the conclusion that we can
communicate on a soul level. And it doesnt just have to be about the transition of no
longer seeing a person but it can be a welcoming someone in, as in the consciousness of
conceiving, or meeting someone whos going to be important for some reason in your
life, and it can just be to ask a question in the awareness such that a friend is going to go
through a challenge.
[And] I had the sense of my sister telling me that this was it. And I just kind of
went, Uh, do I resist this? and then stopping and saying [to her soul],Is this what you
want? and getting a very clear Yes from her. And that was about 6 months before she
died. So a lot of the challenge was, yes, the pain of letting her go but also just being
aware of the spiritual aspects of it, that she was making a choice, that probably the best I
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could do was be with her in that choice. Because it wasnt something that her physical
was conscious about and she was resisting it in every way she knew how. And it just
called on me to be my highest self, to be with her in that. It just demanded that. And I
appreciated that experience. [Its almost as if the best way to handle it was to be directed
to stay in the spiritual.] It made it a little bit easier.
It can also be about meeting someone and having a recognition that this person
will have a role to play in my life. One night I asked a man in the coop a question and had
this feeling of recognition/connection. We didnt exchange more than a few words,
because he didnt know the answer to my question. I hadnt seen him before, and didnt
see him again for a couple of years or so. But then one day he showed up as the father of
one of my students. He became involved in school, and we got to know each other and
found we shared a common view of the world.
I also had the notion to ask a friend, on a subtle level, if I were going to see her
again. It was scary to do that, because I wasnt sure I wanted to know if the answer were
going to be no, but I did anyway, and the answer was many times. Then, a few
months later she had a health crisis and it was touch and go for her. I remembered our
exchange and believed she would recover, and indeed we have seen each other again
many times.
It was a challenge for me to grow beyond the view that this soul communication
was always about dying because so many people I cared about died during the 90s. But I
have come to see it is much more than that. I have also had a brief conversation with
someone else who experiences this type of communication, not just in connection with
dying.
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Current Issues and Challenges
I feel very much this very sort of thinness between the physical and the spiritual,
the veil being thinner than it has been for me in the past, frequently a sense of the
parallelness and the consciousness of them being there together. [Both at this moment
and lately]
I think [the] physical challenges that Ive taken on [recently] have sort of bogged
me down and I was focusing on those and forgetting about the other part and that made it
hard. So it again comes back to I think resistance. Its the resistance that makes the pain
and the suffering. I think its the human emotions of struggle that are the resistant sorts of
things, and then those are what create the difficulties. Resistance comes down to I dont
want to be doing this. Thats sort of the basic fundamental resistance.
The hardest part [of my sadhana recently] has been that for a long period of time;
I didnt have a very high energy level and I felt guilty. Then I stopped eating gluten and
just changed my diet with the intention of becoming radiantly healthy; I was. And I had
energy to do things and I had enthusiasm. And to come back, essentially what I have
done isthe lack of energy and the lack of radiant health that I had, that had been there
for a whileto then go back and say, Okay theres something more that needs to be
done. And I see it in terms of the transformation of the body, in terms of learning to let
go of attachments to food and be able to learn very precisely, and eat very precisely, what
the body actually needs, not what youve been enculturated to want. It was so nice to
have all that energy to get up and be able to go and keep your house clean and get things
done. So just like having been shown what was possible spiritually, Ive been shown
what was possible physically and now Im going to have toIm just saying this as Im
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understanding it now. <Laughter> I have to work on this, to sit down and go, Okay,
theres a deeper level that needs to be worked on for this particular bodys sake. And,
wishing it were otherwise doesnt particularly facilitate creating that other you. I very
much do have experience with: the clearer you are in what your intention is, the clearer it
is that the universe can give it to you. And the Mother even talks about that, she says,
You can just let the Divine take care of it. Id like to have a little bit of a hand in it.
<Laughter> So its again coming back to that physical in spirit and allowing that veil to
be thinner and thinner and thinner, and create opportunities for them to merge. [Its
simply a matter of allowing and intending. And then knowing itll happen.]. And trust,
trusting and truly surrendering that it will happen. And, as is often the case for me, I flip
around this whole issue over and over and over. Ill just go, Okay, I get it, and be with
that and then 5 minutes later, the struggle again. But I see it [as] this stirring of the pot,
you have to stir it up in order to truly clean it out. And see whats really there and pick
and choose whats going to stay and whats going to go <Sigh>.[Theres no end point
in spiritual development, is there?] And I dont know why it is that we expect there to be.
[I think a lot of times we talk about bringing the spiritual into the physical. When
in fact you just ground yourself in the spiritual and then dissolve the veil. Youre still
seated in the spiritual but acting in the physical.] The experience is fairly subtle. And I
dont think anyone ordinarily walking down the street [would notice anything.] I
certainly am not behaving like anyone differently. I think it makes me lighter in terms of
dealing with stuff, less inclined to wrestle, less inclined to agonize over certainly human
emotions and human feelings. And all those things come up, but theyre there in parallel
with the other. And Im not trying to get rid of them, Im not trying to wrestle with them,
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theyre just there. And I think they resolve themselves easier, and perhaps a little less
intensely.
And in this time that Ive been aware of this, Ive had times of forgetting too, just
forgetting all about that as a possibility, of just [being] focused on the physical, tangible
world, and thats harder. I find the reminder triggers are coming through easier, the
support from different [parts] come up. But again, theres still a lot to be worked on, and
as that comes up and if you focus in on the issue to be worked on then sometimes that
becomes all-consuming, for a while. [And then something happens out of the blue, Ill
get a phone call from somebody, that would remind me to refocus on being grounded in
the spiritual]. If theres a reminder, then its there. [It can be that fast]. Now how long it
stays there sort of depends on where the concentrations been I guess. I think the
reminder shifts the awareness and its a matter of then, How long do I maintain that
awareness? And that I think is something where I can work on, All right, what is it that
I really want to do? How much do I want to maintain? And the amazing multiplicities of
possibilities that are always out there, and I think that can set up kind of a nervous energy
of having to choose, and the ego coming up and the desires coming up and just, old habits
and patterns and Here we are again and, What do you want the outcome to be?
I no longer think Ive gotten rid of anything, <Laughter> the patterns of issues
that Ive dealt with in my life have repeated and repeated. They get less intense and its
probably a bigger stretch to say that theyre the same patterns, but I think they are. And
one of the things that really was obvious to me moving back to the States was you carry
your issues wherever you go. You carry your consciousness wherever you go; you cant
run away from anything. So thats not a good reason for doing anything, you have to be
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going to something rather than running away from something, because if youre just
running away its all coming with you.
I feel like [Integral Yoga] has become an element in the fabric, the whole fabric of
my life. If you think of a tapestry that its, I dont know which way the warp and wolf go
but its one of those, just woven in through everything. And I think it very quickly
became that way because it just, it made so much sense to me. Sri Aurobindos writings
just have always made so much sense to me. And his concept of life as an experiment and
us as scientists, and that we need to be observant and we need to test theories and we
need to toss them out if they dont work and we need to explore and experiment and learn
from each other but not try to tell each other what to do. And then the Mothers more,
more of a gentle loving, maybe more on the emotional level, [with] Sri Aurobindo on the
intellectual level, but again all over peace.
And I think one of the elements that Ive found very important lately is the
understanding that through the reading in Savitri, the sort of the recognition that he was
describing. It seems to me that he was describing his yoga in the yoga of the King and he
was describing in her yoga in Savitris yoga experiences. And they were so different from
each other; so different that the first time I went through it, I was going, Shes not doing
it, whats she doing? Shes not doing it like hes doing it. And the recognition that
nobody does, but each one is going to be so unique and, that there isnt any way that it
could be the same. Because each of us has such different experiences and all of that is
integrated into the whole of the of the yoga.
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Benefits of The Study
A lot of this stuff is just coming to my awareness. This is why I wanted to do [the
interview] again, because I knew it would help clarify a lot of stuff. And Im just kind of
recognizing it and putting words to it right now.

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Om Shanti Story
Im experiencing a sense of calmness mixed with a bit of anticipation on account
of the kind of questions that you may have for me. Yet, Im centered, Im not distracted.
The Divine is with me, Im being watched over and I'm surrendered to the Divine Will.
Sadhana
What my practice is based on is regular meditations. I get up in the morning, have
a cup of tea and then go to my prayer or meditation room that is set aside in my home. I
go to that room and sit in meditation. Sometimes I do japa, which is recitation of spiritual
mantras. At times, I sing certain religious hymns or bhajans. I always light a lamp and
burn incense. I sit in a meditation and do these practices from 30 minutes to an hour. It
varies, its not fixed; the time spent depends on what schedule I have and what mood I
am in.
The second important part of my sadhana is to regularly attend meetings of a
study circle based on the writings of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. I seek to apply their
teachings to my everyday living.
Sri Aurobindos teaching is not otherworldly; he teaches that salvation or moksha
does not lie elsewhere outside of this world. Sri Aurobindos teaching is affirmative. The
goal of life is not the attainment of heaven in afterlife, but to bring down the Divine
shakti actually working in our lives here and now. The goal is to lead a spiritual life in
tune with the Divine Will. The more we are surrendered, the more the shakti works. This
philosophy resonates with me.
I do not subscribe to the Mayavadi philosophy, propagated by the great
Shankaracharya. He taught in India in the 7th or the 8th century. As popularly
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understood, Shankaracharya says that life is an illusion or maya. The only reality is
Brahman and all the rest is Mithya or falsehood (Brahma satya, jagat mithya). When I
was growing up in India, these ideas were quite popular. Things may have changed in
India in the recent years. I have been in the U.S. for four decades. Sri Aurobindo negates
Shankraras teachinghe says that this world is not an illusion, that if God is real, then
this creation is also real. The Buddhist philosophy is also negative like Shankaras
philosophy. The goal in Buddhism is nirvana, which is a void. Sri Aurobindos
affirmative approach to life resonates very much with me.
The greatest influence in my life is the teachings and the philosophy of Sri
Aurobindo. But I am quite ecumenical. I visit other ashrams and temples for pujas
(worship services). On a number of occasions, I have visited the Hare Krishna temple [in
another city]. I do not like the very elaborate ritual that Hare Krishnas follow in their
pujas, but I admire their devotion, their bhakti. From their dress and shaven heads, Hare
Krishnas may look strange, but I open my home to traveling Hare Krishna devotees as
they pass through my town. I also visit other Hindu shrines and temples in other cities.
There is no Hindu temple in the city where I reside. I also participate in the few religious
activities organized by the Indian community in my town. Such functions are rare. I have
been instrumental in bringing to town some teachers of yoga.
Sri Aurobindo says [that] aspire is a two-way movement. You move upward, you
try to move upward, then also call the Divine to come down and descend. I think if you
take one step the Divine takes two. And its at the meeting of these two forces, your own
aspiration, the force born of your aspiration, and the descent of the Divine, I think for
some people it happens and they have epiphany and they have great lightening. It just
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hasnt happened for me in that sense. I have not had any epiphanies, sudden bouts of
spiritual energy. I call on the Divine to come down and fill me, to guide me, to be with
me. I have faith that the Divine surrounds me, and guides me; otherwise my life will not
be as good, as fulfilled as it is.
[One of the ways I aspire is by using] prayers. In the past during my morning
meditation period, I used to write out a daily prayer. Divine Mother, come into my heart.
Divine Mother, please reside in my heart. Fill me with your light. Give me a bit of your
shakti. Then, I will ask for strength to meet the challenge that I may be facing that day.
I live in the faith that the Divine is around me. The faith is solid. I truly do believe
that I'm being guided, that the Divine Mother is with me, that Im being supported and
that everything is quite all right. I do not claim to have had any visions or revelations.
Faith in Divine guidance is part of me; it is part of who I am. Im leading a wonderful
life. And I think the reason for this is faith in Divine guidance.
Following Sri Aurobindo, I also believe that were on a progressive path,
individually as well as globally, that one day the Divine will manifest here on earth. Sri
Aurobindo and the Mother worked long and hard to bring down to the earth plane the
Higher Light from above. The social and political conditions as they appear presently are
negative and destructive, but this will pass. The negativity and violence are a temporary
phase. Were going to come out of the present mess. A happier state of affairs will
descend on mankind. Its that kind of a faith that I live with, in my own personal life, and
about the society and the political system at large.
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Psychic Being as an Intellectual Exercise
[I do not indulge myself with worrying about the psychic being. It doesnt have
any impact on my sadhana]. I would say that its more of an intellectual exercise. There is
the psychic being and its affected and influenced by the forces above (by the Divine
forces above).
Sri Aurobindo and The Mother
I dont distinguish between Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. I think they are a
manifestation of the same force, the same power. The Mother is more approachable. Her
writings are simpler, especially her book on meditations and prayers. She wrote a prayer
each week or each day; those have been published in the form of a book. The book is a
great help. I model my written prayers on the Mothers book.
And often I would write down my prayers. I used to do that regularly a few years
ago, I dont write down my prayers at the present time. The Mothers book on prayers
and meditations is a model for me. I would cry out to the Mother to come into my life. I
would write about a page or a couple of paragraphs each dayand that was very
meaningful to me. Ive gotten away from that practice. Now that Im talking with you
about writing down prayers, perhaps Ill start doing that again. That was very meaningful
to me in the past.
When I pray, I pray more often to the Mother than to Sri Aurobindo. I invoke
Mothers Shakti to come into my life. Mother do this, Mother do that. The idea about
female Shakti was not difficult for me to accept. The idea of Feminine Divinity is very
prevalent [in India]. The Divine is Shiva and Shakti together. Shiva is the male principle
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and Shakti is the female counterpart. In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna says I am the
father and the mother of the universe. The Lord is the Mother-Father God.
Experiences
Ive read your interview schedule and I knew the kind of questions you will ask
me. And then I was wondering, Am I the right candidate for you to interview? I cant
say that I have had profound experiences that you might be interested in investigating. I
have had no epiphanies, no visions, no out-of-body experiences.
Some other people might have had such experiences. Some people say that they
this feeling of either the ascending of the consciousness or the descent of the
consciousness. I havent had any of those experiences other than the fact that when I sit
in meditationand that comes and goes, its not regularI have a feeling of the rise of
the kundalini, from the lower chakra up to the head. I have a feeling, tingling sort of a
feeling, of the rising of the shakti or kundalini (vibrations) up along the spine. That kind
of experience Ive had, off and on, more so in the past. I used to be more stable in
practicing meditation, more concentrated than in the recent months. But I do lead
generally a peaceful, calm life without getting perturbed at all the ups and downs that life
throws at you. But in terms of concrete experiences, you know, like visions or like a bolt
of lightening that has hit you, those kinds of experiences I havent had.
Current Issues and Challenges
[The impact of Integral Yoga on my sadhana and my life has] been gradual. I
cannot say there is any one single outstanding or great moment. But I find that Im calm;
I'm calmer and accept life as it comes. I have had certain losses in my life, some dear
people, very dear people whom I have lost. I could have gone to pieces on the loss that
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occurred. It turns out I handled the loss very well; I accepted it and moved on in my life. I
was not negatively impacted either at work, or in personal relationships. So its a sort of a
general calmness about my lifes situation that I possess as a result of my sadhana.
I dont get perturbed a great deal; I take things as they come. I try to stay in a state
of surrender, I inculcate the feeling that Gods will be done, that theres an order, as Sri
Aurobindo says in Savitri, This world is not made with random bricks of chance, a blind
God is not destinys architect, theres a meaning in each curve and line. Ive come to
imbibe the philosophy that theres order, theres progress. Things are getting better,
they're getting better for me, for the globe, and for the world, although, you know, a great
deal of evidence seems to suggest the contrary. But I think things are getting better. We
are on a progressive path.
The Divine is around us all the time, supporting us. I feel theres a Divine hand in
what I do and how I conduct myself. I do have faith. I do believe that the Divine hand is
there and Im being guided by the Divine, that Im being supported by the Divine, that
things are the way theyre supposed to be, that Im not going to end up in a mess
anywhere. So that kind of a feeling I have, its a subtle feeling.
There is a Divine order; all this is not accidental happening like the materials
scientists would have us believe. These feelings have become more entrenched in me
after I got into studying Sri Aurobindo and practiced meditation. So thats the kind of a
profound feeling that I have. There is a whole lot of negativism that surrounds everybody,
especially in the global arena and in the social and the political subject matter. It seems
that things are going downhill, that we might blow ourselves up like we used to feel back
in the 1980s at the height of the Cold War. But the Cold War has come and gone. Now
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its the Islamic terrorism, radicalism that confronts the globe. It seems like we are
plunging towards the abyss. But I have faith that well come out of the present slide, its
just a phase and a period, a dark period before the ensuing dawn. So that kind of a faith
and a feeling is what guides me.
Then Im also moved by Sri Aurobindos writings on social and political subject
matter. Sri Aurobindo wrote quite a bit on Indian culture, The Foundations of Indian
Culture. Another volume is on human unity and still another on Indias rebirth. Ive read
these. And they influence me greatly. You know, he was writing during the height of
British colonialism. One of his goals was the political independence of India. He wrote
on how Indians could raise themselves to confront the British for independence. People
who follow Integral Yoga do not usually read his social and political writings but these
writings have been very important to me personally.
[I believe that the practice of Integral Yoga has provided me with the optimism
not to be dragged down into the muck that occurs in political and world events. Through
all of the turmoil theres always this optimism that things are getting better.]
I spoke earlier about general calmness that pervades my being. Its seldom Im in
conflict with [anyone]. I dont make waves, but Im solid. Im not a performer, far from
that. Sometimes Im short of words, and dont articulate quite well. Im kind, Im
generous, Im helpful. The practice of Integral Yoga influences my relationships with my
colleagues. I get along well with my colleagues, even with the difficult ones. I have been
selected into leadership roles by my colleagues and coworkers. Integral Yoga helps me a
great deal. Its not evident, its not something overt, but seeps through you, or seeps
through me.
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Pancho Story
I feel a sense of openness and some joy to be able to devote myself to something
directly connected with the sadhana that I do. I feel kind of a spaciousness inside me that
is growing. I cant say that its exactly the psychic being but from the inner being
anyway, which includes it, and some kind of an opening to a force above. And when I am
not doing anything I usually feel something like that. It is harder to bring that when I get
real involved, but when I am by myself, I usually do feel some of that, some kind of inner
feeling of joy with no particular reason that has nothing to do with my situation. You
need solitude [in this sadhana] and some people just dont understand.
Sadhana
One of the main practices is aspiration, but to me it has kind of a concrete reality.
You can feel it coming out of you and rising above, this connection with the Divine.
Aspiration and rejection can lead you to surrender and theyre all connected. And I have
always used a lot of effort in aspiration. I dont call light and force except when I really
need it. Im mostly am working on the aspiration and the psychic [being].
And I let those things happen because it seems like people can go a lot further in
the spiritual transformation in the psychic [being]; it seems more ideal to get the psychic
[being]. I think its cool to work with the peace, because I need definitely need peace, and
even artificial exercises to work with peace and calm. I dont want to call down too much
of the higher light and force and bliss, but [rather] let them come in a natural sequence
through the psychic being and through the peace and equanimity being there. Aspiration,
youre not asking for anything, it happens naturally. Its going up, its going out and up.
And its calling things down, probably calling down the things of the higher
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consciousness. Calling down peace, and, and bliss, and light and force, but in a natural
way. Its not like there is a specific demand, like Im aspiring to you because I want you
to give me higher light and force. [Youre sending out aspiring energy to receive
whatever it and is to connect]. Exactly, to have contact with the Divine, thats what you
really want. And the other stuff can come naturally. What I am trying to say [is that] will
and intent are going out both ways, and aspirations.
And there is a way of actually working with that stuff, where you can, you sit
there and you put your consciousness above your head, put your awareness there. And
you allow peace, you connect with this peace above your head and its concrete, its real.
So you connect with the peace, and you feel this substance. They say its like liquid; to
me its flowing but its not exactly liquid. It comes in down there and it goes into your
head and your neck, and then you go up again and connect with this source and feel a
fresh stream of it and going into your middle of your chest and out your arms. And your
arms can get heavy, if you want to play with imagination, and then go up again and then,
like a vase it fills your whole being and body and extends outside the surface of your
skin. And you open up and you give a silent prayer always to have this peace.
And thats the basis. Thats just an exercise. The peace happens anyway, but I
dont think theres anything wrong with an exercise of peace. I dont ask for the higher
stuff too much because I mostly want the psychic being to solidify [as well as having]
peace and calm. Without equanimity, as Ive experienced, they dont stay with you
forever because you dont have enough of a foundation built, enough of an equanimity. I
find that the exercise does help a little. You call down the peace and then if you can get
the peace solidified then you can open up to light and force and then Ananda [bliss]. I
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would rather not call on the higher bliss and call on the supramental. The natural
sequence I think is that you get peaceful, you get calm, you open up, the light can come
down, some force can come down and then maybe the ananda. And I have these things
happen. The exercise helps a little bit, I mean, I think it does.
Thats another thing I do and I also call down the supramental light sometimes,
Like you see a symbol of Sri Aurobindo about eight inches above your head, you call
down the supramental light, and mix it with an om namo bhagavate (the heart, the
surrender). And then I bring from the bottom, from below the earth, maybe hundreds of
miles or whatever, from the inconscient, Mother and Sri Aurobindo back here. Its the
Star of David, well the Solomon Seal, and the symbol keeps the ascent and descent going
so you dont get crushed by the ascent, by the descent or lose everything by the ascent.
It works, but sometimes its mechanical. All those sayings can be, can become
mechanical. Sometimes theyre really working. But I will or imagine. Sri Aurobindo said,
Its not your imagination. There really is a supramental world like they say there in the
supramental, subtle physical, so theyre pretty close.
Another thing that really helps, if I had the time, [is to] read Savitri. Right now, I
am concentrating on The Synthesis, but reading Savitri out loud is really powerful. It does
seem to bring it into the physical, and also the Mothers presence. Because its (Savitri)
about a feminine Divine heroic figure that conquers death, and the MotherSri
Aurobindo put a lot of stock in the Mother just like the Mother put a lot of stock in Sri
Aurobindo. She really is the one that does the yoga.
Sometimes a lot of these things just come on me and thats my practice for the
day, but sometimes I set time. I might think of the phrasethis has worked several times
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anyway, The Mother talks about burning all in The Agenda, burning all to offer all. She
[talks about] this experience of the agni. I really, really get that mystic fire, and Mothers
force means a lot to me. So I think of the fire in the middle and burning all to offer all.
And the Mother also talks about that agni was coming to her at that time, which could
have been [in the 50s], not so much a god as a state of being of the Supreme. And its
just a state of solid aspiration. You feel this thing in here, and it connects you with the
Divine. A lot of times I just think about that passage or the agni, or think about that were
here to evolve. There is a fire that evolves in that kind of thinking [and] brings me to an
experience where I am inhabiting aspiration. I try to take everything from below and
bring it into the heart. And offer it up and feel without any intention. Its concentrated,
its intense, but not overly vehement, although it can be pretty intense. The will is there.
Part of the will is connected with the Divine will, you connect yourself up with that. Its
connecting; its aspiration. You are calling to the higher consciousness and the Divine
presence, the Mother.
Theres one simple way to look at it, overly simplistic, is the mystic fire, is
aspiration going up, and the Mothers force is what comes down from above. Now, the
Mothers force includes all those things of the higher consciousness. It also includes
supramental things and things beyond the supramental because the Mother is in all those
worlds. But mostly in the yoga a lot of what they worked with is the higher
consciousness. So in a sense, to conceptualize it, the peace and the bliss and the light and
the force, you know, are the Mothers force. Seeking the presence of the Mother but not
saying, Give me this or give me that, unless you know you really need it. Trying not to
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put a vital demand into it, but letting it just be. Or as its said, its fine to gently draw, but
not so wisenot wise at all!to pull down those higher energies.
Thats where your real being is, above there, and its connected with your psychic
being. Theyre not unconnected, there is some connection between the deepest within and
the high above. And, Im not saying its supramental because its not exactly that, but it
had gone up there and I thought, if I could, you know, practice this and get some grace
with it maybe Ill be able to follow it some day and not lose the thread. So there is
aspiration and then there is opening up, there are descents from above and I just try to
open to them and let them work.
Experiences
The Mother
One night I went back to my place and I was like thinking about what [had been
said at an Integral Yoga lecture that night], or maybe I was working on one of the
exercises from [a devotees] book, which are really from the Mother. Somehow this
experience just happened. I never really ask for them. I mean sometimes you might be
involved in mediation or prayer or reading, but you might be going to the bathroom or
watching a TV show.
This is the experience that didnt quite happen. I felt this really physical, like
subtle physical but it feels physical, a really strong presence and I knew it was the
Mother. And it was above me, it was in my heart, and I felt like, God, are they giving
me iodine or something? I mean it was pretty powerful. Something came down, and then
something was inside me, inside my heart, but it was so physical. Ive never felt anything
quite like that before or since. And it was really intense love, but it was very soft, it was
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very gentle. At one point I just said, Thats enough. And they respect that. She, it
stopped. But I think she might have been saying, Yeah, you want me, I accept you, or
something. But there werent any words, there wasnt any vision, but it was a powerful
presence, I had no doubt that this was the Mother. And I have read about others [who had
something similar happen to them], like Dilip Kumar Roy. She said, Ill come to you,
Ill bless you, and he fought it off because it was so physical. People think this is
spiritual, but this is so physical.
[What were you feeling that you realized you couldnt take anymore?] Almost
like theyre putting some substance in you, like iodine shooting through you. You have
this weird sensation. [In the center of your chest?] Yeah, yeah. It was this physical
sensation and it was a little too much. I think I would be fine with it now. [What was it
that made you decide to stop?] The intensity of it, I guess, it was too much at the time, or
it was as much as I could take. But I think it might have been her giving her acceptance.
And it wasnt like I shut it away. Maybe I could have gone deeper. But if you say stop,
they usually will stop. Thats the only time I ever said stop to anything like that. [So it
became physically uncomfortable?] Yeah, but you can feel love and bliss. But to feel it
physically in your heart like theyre pumping with some fluid.
But I was used to some of that. When I was in [a mystic Christian order], one of
the greatest things they had was the Devotion to Mary. And the Mother has talked about
this too, that is one good thing the Catholics have. I would open these Mary altars. They
found that the male presence of God coming through Jesus was too much and that the
female presence could open it up. So I was used to feeling something in my heart. I was
used to feeling it. It could have been in the psychic being or the inner heart, it could be
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the emotions. And definitely it was tenderizing me and getting me ready to experience
the psychic being. But I guess this thing I had, this experience I had of the Mother was a
little too concrete. What I experienced before was more ethereal, and I liked that, I was
used to that. But this was almost physical, you can feel it more, you could feel it so
concretely, like a physical substance. And that was surprising to me. And then I came to
understand that a lot of people have those experiences with Sri Aurobindo and the
Mother, this almost physical presence of the Divine. They talk about it [occurring] at the
Samadhi, and I have had that too, but at that time I wasnt used to it. Because these
descents from above are, they are really great. [But] this was just more in your core.
Experience of Christ: Cosmic Presence of the Divine
I had an experience [in 1974 when] I was in [a mystic Christian order] that to me
was an experience of Christ. [I was] on this Greyhound bus and I was feeling really low. I
was doing my evening prayers, and I said, Oh, Lord Jesus, come and bless me with your
light, and, Please bless this mission that I go to, and, Dont forget about me and send
down your light. We worked a lot with Christs light, which I never saw, but I felt it.
Suddenly I felt this being, and it was kind of like he had dropped out of the sky. He was
there all the time and he decided to come in, somewhere in that central area [of my
chest]. It really felt like Christ. I felt his presenceIve had a lot of experiences where I
feel presences and connections and descents but this [experience] stuck outthis was
like the cosmic presence of the Divine. I guess it was like he was there, Id felt that
presence before but this was much more intense. It was almost concrete. Not as concrete
as the Mothers presence, but very concrete. And I said, we were supposed to stand things
in the light of Christ because you can get a lot of false experiences, Stand in the Light of
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Christ! Go away if you are not, and he said, I have no problem standing in the Light of
Christ. This was extremely intense. It was like this feeling of cosmic all-prevailing love
in the center of the heart. It was very powerful, a force, it was more powerful than the
soul experience I had, because Im just a regular human, and this wasand I dont even
think that it was his full presence or anything like that.
So he talked to me. I heard words that I picked up. Not in exactly a distinct voice,
but [something] like, he said, With what you have taught, you could rule the powerful
kingdom, because we were taught the laws of creation. Kind of like The Secret but a
little higher than that. I mean, use the law and get what you need. (laughter) Of course
you have to do it right, you better not do it selfishly, and do it for God and Christ and all
that, and the Light, and the Godself because this was a order that had connections with
the Eastern teachings. It was a pretty strange group, but it was the way to grow at the
time. But this wasnt anything connected with that order, this was the real thing. I
realized theres something different about this. And I should have had a list of questions,
but it didnt matter. So he said, With what youve taught you could rule a powerful
kingdom, but the greatest King is he who has conquered himself, for He ruleth his own
kingdom. I think I read something like that in Marcus Aurelius later, and it was [on]
self-mastery, but it was put in pretty good words. And I think if I had been a little more
receptive there might have been more, but he said that, I have experienced everything a
human being can experience, I think its safe to say. And I really understand you.
<Pause> It can be hard to talk about these things, you know [tears well up]. Thats why
you want to keep a distance. But I didnt have any tears at the time. I was on the
Greyhound bus and I didnt shout out or shout Hallelujah. It was very compact, very
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calm, very real. He said something about one act of love outweighs many mistakes, I
heard that. And, I appreciate your efforts to serve me. It really was, Jesus, if not Christ,
I think full Jesus Christ is more powerful. And I felt [the] psychic [being] in the sense
[of] the soul, but its not the same exactly as your own psychic being. Because hes a
powerful enough being to appear to me, seeming to be coming in the center of your
psychic being. The Mother and Sri Aurobindo I guess can do that. But it was, it was just
intense happiness, and there was life force too with it, and it lasted about an hour.
Experience: Transcendent
I had an experience of Sri Aurobindo in 71 but I didnt know who he was and I
didnt find that out [until a few years ago] that this being that came to me was Sri
Aurobindo. And I hadnt really maybe valued it enough that [it] was a transcendent
[experience]. I was at kind of at loose ends in 1971. I had some things to work out and I
hadnt really given up the drugs of the 60s and the whole 60s things. So I said to
myself, I need a religious experience, as I put it, or maybe wed call it a spiritual
experience today. I need something; Im just not going to make it. I said, Im going to
have a religious experience, I dont care how, please help me, I cant make it any longer
[A friend suggested we camp out, as a type of vision quest.] And I said to myself, Well
this is when its going to happen, it has to happen.
So I took some peyote and, Id never really vomited with it before [but this time]
I just felt awful, dry heaves. I was never was so low in my life. I thought, You came out
to here to have a religious experience and I was at the bottom, it was awful. And then
suddenly something happened, maybe the peyote kicked in, and I started seeing these
visions with my eyes closed. It was really intense. I thought, Ive really struck pay dirt
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now, this is the real thing. I saw all these dancing Tibetan devils and women in orgiastic
postures, these symbolic things, and I was closing my eyes and thinking, Boy, thats a
switch. And then I heard this voice, and it said, That world is a circus, you know,
there is nothing there at all that isnt what you want. You havent experienced anything
of any value. <Laughter>
And then there was a third part of the experience. I was flushed clean, I dont
know why, because I was supposedly on peyote but I didnt feel it at all anymore. And
then I had this thought. One of my favorite people was Yogananda, and I thought, Boy
that guy really had it together, and then I hear this same presence, and it said, If one
can do it, all can do it. It was like that same thing as I had said before in 74, when this
being was around and just came down. I sensed him and I felt [his] guidance. And it was
above me though it wasnt inside me. But I could feel a feeling in my heart and I felt this
feeling of hope. I look back on it and I think, Thats how I learned, at least in this
lifetime, what aspiration feels like. It was like all of a sudden I was living in absolute
hope. Everything was possible. I could feel this solid presence of some kind and it didnt
blow me away.
And then this voice, this being said, You have to find a spiritual path right away.
Its a matter of life and death for you. Youre not going to make it any longer. You cant
depend on anyone else to find this, you have to go look for it. And he said, The
presence you feel will go away in a very short time and youll be left completely to your
own devices. And then I thought, well I need to start the spiritual path, okay, and then
the voice said [pause], he said that I work for him [teary]. Well, I just took it all in. I
dont know how much credence you can put in things that happen when people are on
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drugs, but I realized that when I experienced those things I was totally clear. This voice
had said, What you are looking for is bullshit.
The thing is, I never really thought too much about this experience I had, this
being [who] said, You work for me. The guy was kind of macho in a quiet way. He
didnt have any doubt. And I thought, Huh, there was something to that. What was
that? It kind of reminded me a little bit of Sri Aurobindo, but Im not sure.
And then I was on the beach one day taking a walk. I would try to have these
conversations with Sri Aurobindo, this was [around the year] 2003 or 2004, and I felt like
I wasnt really able to contact him, even in my imagination. And then I reached down and
picked up this rock, and on the back of it, it said I carried you when you were alone. I
thought, What does this mean? And I thought, You know youre a little dense, trying
to say its important for you to know that that was Sri Aurobindo. It was intuition
through this thing, this gray rock with black writing on it. He was the most spiritual
person that ever came to earth. <Laughter> And then I realized he didnt have an English
accent and he didnt talk about Integral Yoga, but so what? I realized, Wait a minute, the
feeling, the feeling is the same you get from aspiring. Aspiration can be a concrete thing,
its this thing in your heart that connects you with higher [planes] and brings [them]
down. Theres a, descent, ascent, and your consciousness can rise up and then it can even
go above your head. And, but I learned how to do it when I was in his presence, that
beings presence. I realized, I just thought, this is a pretty strong, wise being. He
answered a cry a distress [that time on my vision quest].
Christs experience was pretty strong. It was a cosmic, all-prevailing love, to use
the words of Rudolf Steiner, but it was really a powerful, cosmic experience, with the
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transcendent behind it, but mostly universal. And it was very strong and I wasnt on
anything at the time. The feeling was really powerful [with the experience of Sri
Aurobindo] and it was like totally from above. That is why I say the experience was]
transcendent. I think it was something like what he calls the master of the yoga in The
Synthesis of Yoga. I think thats either him or hes connected with it and it felt like the
master of the yoga. And then I read that he said sometimes the master of the yoga comes
to a person early to give them something needed and to give them a foretaste of things to
come. [After that experience in 1971] I moved physically to get involved, but inwardly
its taken me a long time.
Sri Aurobindo Through a Picture
People in Integral Yoga sometimes use pictures. There was a picture of Sri
Aurobindo that I really liked. It was one of the two pictures taken at his Maha Samadhi
when he died. People have felt a lot of power in those pictures. There was one of them
[that I like that has] some kind of power that comes through [it]. I look at that and I get
this feeling. The Mother said when he was lying there in Maha Samadhi she was standing
there and she felt from him this intense supramental force that she called the mind of
light. She said it was the supramental force acting on the physical mind and being
received by the physical mind that it was like a frisson, a sensation. All of this
supramental force came into her. Apparently he was passing something on to the world
through the Mother while he lay there, and then went on to do whatever hes doing now.
And I have had contact with him, contact with that picture.
I look at this picture and I feel this intense presence. It could be centered here [in
the heart], but its in the body too. And its more physical, but not physical like the
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Mothers presence. I cant really describe it but its concrete, and if nothing else, itll
totally change my consciousness when l just put it on my chest for a while and look at it.
Its a concrete presence, its physical. And I experienced him in other ways too, but this
isnt psychic per se. I dont know if its exactly supramental but it might be. I think its
something like what the Mother was talking about because it was there, it comes from
him. I talked [to someone] about that picture, who said, I have the same picture in my
room and I look at it all the time. Its physical. I feel it in my body. I said, Is it the
supramental? And she just smiled. And I said, Well, maybe its the psychic becoming
more physical.
The Mother does say its the psychic manifesting that will produce the
supramental being. Nobody knows quite how that works but it puts even more emphasis
on the psychic being in the yoga. [The feeling] was just oneness and power and some
kind of love. It must have something to do with the supramental and the physical, I dont
know, but it encouraged me to keep doing this thing. And Sri Aurobindo does sometimes,
he comes and talks to me. It seems likes he knows all about me. And sometimes I can feel
things working on different parts of me, and I just say, Go to work, or Let it happen.
Sometimes Ill feel things in my legs and its like that presence [is] in the legs, but its
different.
Current Issues and Challenges
My hope is that [my sadhana] will get to where it will work in my outward life
more and manifest more. I still think Im on the right track because I feel like it starts
within and it works without, and that if we have an experience and it creates some intense
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aspiration and it lasts 30 minutes and we feel this great presence, and [even though] it
might dissipate were still building up that muscle to a time when we can.
These things Im talking about seem like little openings, little beginnings. And I
just hope that I can get to, at least in this lifetime, where there is some real firm psychic
connection. I hope to take these to where the experiences become realizations. Then
theyre really worth something.
I think a lot of [my] path has been building up an inner life. Its real hard to build
up, to be inward, really inward in this country, and its not even that easy for
Aurobindonians. A lot of them think, Well, Ill work and Ill offer it up and thats
great, but to build up an inward life takes time and its taken me time to really appreciate
these experiences and others.
I dont know what it is but I think itsthe last thing [Sri Aurobindo] wrote about
was the supramental manifestation on earth and the mind of light. If you read The Life
Divine hes always saying, the physical mind prevents people from understanding more
and ties them down to earth. And so something had to work on the physicalthe
physical mind, the physical vital, the physical physical and even the cells. And so I work
with this when I can.
[The Mother said] if you can aspire for longer [periods of time], aspire and
surrender, the movement eventually will get stronger and become bright. Grace has to be
there too. And I think grace is whats making you do it. The supramental is whats
making you do the effort. I still think that working from within [is important]. The
Mother said that it was the work of the dark forces to tell you youre not that much
changed, because the outward that everybody sees is the last thing to change. So you just
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have to have faith that if youre on the right track, it will eventually [change], because in
this yoga we do want things outwardly to really change.


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Rishi Story
My mind is quiet. I would like that any answers that I give to you, they come
from, above my mind, from higher planes, and I prefer that I be a channel to those
answers. So that is a prayer that I said before we started the interview. Now, I am all
ready to answer your questions.
Sadhana
It was only [in] Sri Aurobindos books that I noticed that yoga can be applied to
ones daily life. It can be made into a concrete force in ones day-to-day events. It seemed
to understand the place of spirituality as well as the place of materialism in ones life.
That was the starting point for me to get involved into Integral Yoga in a very serious
way. So getting to a point where one has to surrender oneself and become an instrument
of the Divine was almost a 180-degree change.
In the [next] phase, gradually it started happening that my mind quieted, just
trying to observe something coming. And it started coming in. I started getting more and
more of those experiences of energy coming in and it became a very normal thing. It is a
very unusual thing to talk about to anyone else who is not familiar with it. So the second
phase was more of meditation. And when I found some challenging situation in life, at
that point I would try to get into a meditative frame of mind and let instructions come to
me, to determine what I needed to do.
In the last 10 or 11 months, I believe my practice has gone through another
change, entered into a third phase of practice. My sadhana became more emotional in
nature; I sort of fell in love [and] when I fell in love my sadhana became more of a joy.


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So this phase has become more of an effortless phase. It is like I am having fun, I am just
enjoying doing my sadhana.
I would say that there is no practice except that the desire, the desire to learn the
truth. The desire to learn who I am, the desire to figure out everything. It is probably a
curiosity, a certain amount of will, and a certain amount of courage to go this way. That
is what I think leads you to find ways to be able to get to that object that you were after.
Experiences
Love of Divine Began With Love of a Woman
It began with falling in love with a person, with a human being. A few days after I
fell in love with her, I suddenly saw Krishna in her face, in a photograph of her. I have
never personally interacted with her, never physically met her, it has always been on e-
mails. So when I saw Krishna, I realized that whenever I used to think of her, it would
just increase some spiritual energy within me. I felt more spiritual. It kind of made me
very energetic, made me feel very happy, and it seemed to be in tune with the goal I had
set out myself for, to become a perfect instrument of the Divine.
Suddenly, there was one point where I intensely felt like I wanted to be with her. I
knew she was involved with someone else, or maybe she did [not] think of me in terms of
a potential partner. I felt quite hurt with that, this intense hurt was within me that I am not
being able to get that reciprocation from the person I feel so strongly about, that one night
as I experienced this, I suddenly saw, I believe it was, the Virgin Mary with a baby in her
arms. I saw her there, in front of me, and I saw energy coming out of her and to me and
all my hurt and frustration just went away. It was like I got healed, and at that point it no
longer mattered whether I was with that person or not. It just stopped being of


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importance, that physical craving of being, getting that which you love or which you like,
that craving went away. It was as if I became free.
And, then another few weeks passed by, and suddenly I experienced Krishna
within me and at the same time experienced that it was Krishna, it was this kind of a
force that had entered me and made me fall in love with this person. It was as if
something was forced on me. It never, it was not something that just came out from
within me, it was something that came out from somewhere else that kind of occupied me
for that time being and made me feel like this for this person. And simultaneously I felt it
was Krishna that had occupied me.
So it was very interesting for me to see that how Krishna took over me and I fell
in love with Krishna, whom I saw in the other person. And this all happened in a matter
of 8 or 9 weeks, all of these experiences.
So after all of this, then my mind, my heart, my entire being kind of relaxed a
little bit and then that is when it got to the realization that God is probably there
everywhere, God is there everywhere, and the love that I felt for this person is something
that I could feel for everything in life. And along with that grew the intensity to know
everything there is to know in life, to know more and more about all the people I interact
with everyday, all the news that I read everyday. I feel like everything I know, every new
thing I learn, I am learning a little bit more about that, about the god whom I have fallen
in love with. My falling in love started with one person, it eventually took me to the
realization that I have fallen in love with the Divine, whom I have started seeing in
everything I see I my life.


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Somatic Experience of Force
Since I have been practicing this yoga I can very clearly see if there is any force
acting on me. Sometimes I feel the force enter from the crown of my head, sometimes it
seems to enter from my forehead. Whenever it does that, its as if it wants to occupy my
brain. But its a very tender force, its not like a brute force, a very tender force. And it
lets you decide whether you want to let it occupy you or you want to force it away
literally. Its so delicate in nature, a mild whisper, it does not want to disturb you if you
are sleeping. It can vary anywhere between a minute to 8 or 9 minutes, usually theres a
timeframe, where it just does its thing on me. When it does come in, I feel very
lightheaded. I feel the need of being still.
If I am in a conversation with someone I like to just become quiet. Sometimes my
forehead cringes when it happens and sometimes my eyebrows droop a little, as if it is
kind of relaxing. Sometimes I close my eyes. Mostly I prefer closing my eyes, but if I am
in the middle of a meeting or if I am talking to someone, I [try] not to give the wrong
message to people. For that reason, what I end up doing is just putting my fingers around
my nose on the eyes, as if I am thinking about what that other person is saying (laugh), to
show that I am still in the conversation. Or maybe I might just put my forearms on the
table and just cover my eyes a little bit, maybe one of the eyes, so that I can be still. I feel
as if I want to lock myself away from the world, not to be disturbed by anything from the
outside. So whatever way I could do that, I would do that without being disrespectful to
the other person, so that that other person doesnt think, Are you not paying attention to
me? or things like that.


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So I let it do its thing. And then after the force stops, at that point then I try to
internally explore various parts of my being, the emotional mind, and see what has
happened and what work has been done there. At that point I start getting some ideas, the
idea of some problem I had five years back or some grudge I may have had on someone a
few years back and I totally forgotten about it. Suddenly I remember that, and I realize
what was wrong with my behavior with so-and-so person, or maybe learn something
more about that other person.
Visions of Spiritual Beings
When I have a vision of [Krishna], I feel some kind of energy coming out of him
and entering me. And then the next thing, I start getting insights about certain problems
in my life. So along with Krishna I have also had visions of Sri Aurobindo, Mother,
Vivekananda, and Yogananda
I feel like it is more like energy, it is more like light, when you switch on a torch.
The light travels and then falls under the wall, so that it is like rays coming from your
source and the torch, and [these] rays [are] what goes through the wall. So, my special
experiences are more like rays, not projection. It starts with sensing the rays, I believe. It
starts with the rays because what usually happens is I am busy doing something and
suddenly I feel as if my mind is being occupied by something. [As if] someone is pushing
me, making me divert my attention to something. I become aware that something is going
in my mind, and then I see a person. And the person does not necessarily appear with a
perfect outline, with very well-defined features sometimes. With these people I
sometimes dont see very clearly those pictures. For example, with Krishna, I do not very
clearly again see his face sometimes, but I can see a strong blue light. I can see the kind


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of dress or the jewelry that I have seen in the paintings of Krishna. And there is a certain
pleasantness about that person I perceive, a certain smile, a certain niceness and a
wiseness that I perceive, that makes me trust that person.
There are also times when I am feeling depressed, frustrated, and then I would
certainly think, you know, I want to get out of this frustration. Then at that point, I
consciously close my eyes and think of Aurobindo and Mother, [that they would] help me
out of this and do something about this. Another point or situation is where I try to quiet
my mind and pray to Sri Aurobindo to give me insights, tell me which direction should I
put my efforts [regarding] the dilemmas of life.
So there are two different ways this happens to me. [One] comes all of a sudden
without me expecting it, and another where I can constantly want them to come in. And
usually what happens is when I do consciously call them I become quiet. I try to make
my brain quiet. And obviously if I am anxious or something, or frustrated, when I try
become quiet, it relieves me of it. Even if no guru turns up, I still feel better because I
have just quieted myself. I think when I experience something negative or strong, that is
when I end up consciously feeling that I should do something about this. I do not
consciously think about it; thats okay, let me quiet myself. It is usually a problem that
forces me, something about it, and that something to be done is to become quiet.
Current Issues and Challenges
Planes
What I am beginning to realize is that there are certain intuitive planes and all of
the gurus, all of them go through those planes. So if I reach the intuitive plane though Sri
Aurobindo, or if I reach it through Vivekananda, or through some other guru, or through


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someone whom I have never seen in my physical life, it is still the same. The basic lesson
that I am learning is still the same, whether it is [from] one source or from another. I
guess the main source is the plane itself, that is, an intuitive or an overmental plane. That
is what I believe one needs to get into touch with, whoever it may be, through your guru
or through anyone.
I have been able to make a [distinction] now between different planes. I definitely
feel I have been in touch with the intuitive plane. If there is a subject that I need to learn
about, I pick up a book, I go through the table of contents. I read the words and suddenly
sometimes my brain goes quiet. I put the book aside and I suddenly start having these
insights. I literally see what [the book is talking about but on a grander, more worldly
scale], various aspects about that subject. It just starts flooding into my brain. And, then
when it subsides, I again start going through the next pages of the book and I suddenly
see what I want and that I learned all of this already! <Laughter> I dont need the book
and thats good. In 20 minutes I figured out the entire subject, some basic thing about the
subject. So that kind of convinces me that this is real, and I have started trusting it more
and more. One can learn about anything one wants to. You need some kind of a prop,
maybe a book becomes a prop, just a catalyst, something that just makes the process start,
then it begins. The intuitions start coming in.
Sri Aurobindo has made a distinction between different planes. He talks about
higher mind, an intuitive mind and an overmind and the supermind. At first, it becomes
difficult to know what plane you are in, in your sadhana. But when you start progressing
to higher and higher levels, then it becomes much easier to know what level is where. As
I look back over my past 10 years, I now realize that maybe at that [earlier] time in my


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life that only the higher mind was active. Now I get a feeling that I am probably entering
the overmind area. I mean, I think I am in the overmental mental area because I feel that
what I am experiencing is similar to what Sri Aurobindo mentions is overmind. Such as
getting a huge chunk of insight at a time. It is not like just one single thing you know, but
huge chunks and they are spread across various aspects of life, fields literally, all
connected. And then you see at the same time, you understand the pain of people going
through cancer, you understand Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship, and suddenly you
see the whole picture at the same time, a bunch of things at the same time.
When one gets to that point, I now realize when I look back in my life that earlier
on I was not getting these chunks of insight in the sadhana. I was not getting chunks, but
a little bit of insight here and there. So then I came to know that, okay, this is a different
stage and that was a different stage. And that is how I could say that, okay, we are
probably getting in touch with different planes. I wouldnt even say different planes, just
a different stage of development. Ive not been able to, I would not say that I would be
seeing some other world where I am going and getting insights and bringing them here, I
have not had that kind of experience. What I have experienced is just that my brain gets
flooded with lots of insights. To me, my sadhana is more of a going through stages. Im
becoming more receptive.
I wouldnt define my sadhana based on planes, so to speak in a way. And I could
say that, okay, I have experienced whatever he has described about the intuitive plane, I
experienced whatever he described in the overmental plane. But I would not call it in
terms of plane. It is a terminology that I am not comfortable with. I would just say that [it
is] like one is learning the mathematics from grade 1 to grade 10. So you are just learning


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more and more about mathematics, you are just understanding the various aspects about
it. So it is like a natural progression of knowledge going from one point to other points. I
find it very difficult to really distinguish the specific planes. Even when I think about
planes, I sometimes feel as if it is like some kind of a physical, some floor is there
somewhere and everything is set up there, some intuitive floor and then an overmental
floor. Somehow I cannot imagine that plane concept. I would say that I am learning more
and more about the person I love. <Laughter> Sometimes I learn a little bit, sometimes a
lot. Sometimes as he reveals himself, he makes himself known through so many things,
whether it is Saddam Hussein or a cancer patient. That is all I care about literally. I just
want to know more about him through all this.
Aspiration
It seems that [my sadhana] is based on the desire of mine to know more. It seems
be a very big driving factor behind this. I just feel like I want to know a lot more about
the world, why the world is, what is there about this world. I desire to know and I am
then granted that insight. My desire is to learn about everything and that desire itself
starts providing those insights and change in me.
But I think I may eventually get to a point where I might be conscious of spiritual
reality at all times, progressing in that direction where I let the decision come from
above. So I might not be in a situation where I am so focused on work that I am forced to
become awake. I think that situation might reduce as I become more and more conscious
throughout my day. Right now I am not always thinking about spirituality and I get
distracted about things.


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I think that what is happening is actually the frequency has become more
frequent. I mean the intuitive planes, intuition is out there, all the insights are out there. It
is just that people are not receptive to it. For me, I am becoming more and more
receptive. I think it is more of an issue of removing your personal limitations. So as I
continue with my sadhana, my effort will be to become more receptive [and work on
removing] my personal limitations. And with that, the intuition is out there, it will come
to you. Let me put it this way, I believe as I succeed in doing that, more and more I will
automatically have access to deeper knowledge, the worlds of knowledge.
So my focus is more on, guru, help me to remove my limitations. One may not
be thinking about God [when going about ones life]. One may think about God when
they are reading a book on yoga, not when they are filling in the bills or checking the
receipts. So that is a limitation. That is a limitation because one has not been able to find
out what is there to know about the Divine in these receipts and one starts making the
receipts itself a tool to know about the Divine. And [one can] remove the limitation
because that intuitive knowledge is there in those receipts, in those numbers. God is there
in front of you. Just as you are looking at numbers, you are not seeing the God in those
numbers.
[I would summarize my current sadhana as] just falling in love and getting lots of
insights at a time. Those have been so far the most profound intuitions. And this constant
desire to know. I want to know why my life is like that. So I think that is the very
profound change or the feeling, the intuition that Ive become aware of. It is like a source
of energy that drives you to do things; you are no longer complacent and satisfied with
what you have. <Laughter> You want to know more, to explore.


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There are a lot of challenges that are coming nowshould my desires, my
aspirations create conflict [with my relationships, my family, my work?] Should I let
things flow and if people expect something from me, let me meet them? If there are
certain other pressing issues that need my attention, I should let go that I want to find the
Divine only in this subject? Should I be open to finding Divine everywhere? So I have
had a lot of challenges in terms of being able to develop the right relationship. Anything
that allows you to get closer to the Divine is right. This is the toughest part for anyone
who wants to do yoga in todays times. You cannot necessarily leave this world and go
into a solitary place to do your yoga. Rather, [it is to] do it here in the midst of all these
challenges.
Everything has become very interesting. Its fun, actually. Its like I am looking
forward to everyday, looking forward to going to work, looking forward to challenges. I
no longer am afraid of challenges or any hardships. All I want to do is learn about life.


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Rose Story
Right now I feel peace, I feel happiness inside. I feel it is a great day outside, but I
feel a lot of light inside of me, calm.
Sadhana
Meditation is definitely the focal point of my practice, meditation, contemplation.
I dont meditate on a thing, more contemplation. Sitting in silence and clearing the mind,
thats what I mean with meditation. Of course reading is a big part for me, reading the
spiritual books. A healthy diet [and] physical exercise [are] a part of it too, having a
balanced moderate lifestyle, trying to balance out everything. The less you have those
shoulds and shouldnts, the more you can stay in the flow of things. [Its finding the
balance, integrating opposites].
Then I do volunteer work; this is something left over from [my years with] Sri
Chinmoy. I learned there that volunteer work nurtures your soul too and it sure does. [I]
just try to be my best consciousness as much as possible in daily life and actually using
every minute, every second where I remember the higher purpose, I go back to it, focus,
try to contact the Mother, try to go back in a higher consciousness.
Im very creative, thats another thing that came from my Integral Yoga, I got so
creative. Besides painting once in a while, I do jewelry and I sell it [locally], Im very
fortunate. And the ideas just bubble inside of me, they bubble inside of me. I sell twice a
week at [my booth] and you wouldnt think its a spiritual place, but its a very spiritual
place for me. When Im there, if nobody is there at the table, I either read some spiritual
books or I just sit there and go into a higher consciousness, focus on the light, do some
japa (repeating a mantra). The Mother gave the mantra, om namo bhagavate, and thats a


325
very familiar one for me. I picked [it] up the first time I read [Satprems] book. He
mentioned that mantra and ever since that mantra keeps coming to me and Im using it. I
will sit there and repeat the mantra or meditate and focus on the Mother. Sometimes I feel
like, Oh thank God nobody can tell what Im doing right now. <Laughter>
Then shadow work is part of [my sadhana.]. If problems arose in my life I always
looked inside [for] how I can solve [them]. And I learned some more different practices
about shadow work [from] Ken Wilber. His work helped me a lot. It really helped me to
put into place developmental stages of people. He helped me to see where I am, to see
where others are, to finally learn that people dont understand what I'm talking about.
Theyve never been there, they just dont understand. Even if they're very willing to
understand, they just cant. Its wasted energies to explain. That helped me [to
understand] the developmental stages people go through and to respect and to
acknowledge where they are in the[ir] development. Yet, when it comes to more spiritual
things, the Mother or Sri Aurobindo, they can nourish you with much more insights in the
nonvisible world.
Not Needing to Belong to Any Group
[When I am in church] I just sit in the back of the church and do my own
meditation; its all part of it. And it can be any temple. There is a Hindu monastery
[where I live] and right next to it is an ashram of that guru, A. So [one day] I thought,
Hm, there is a master. Ill go there and drink of his energies. So I went [to the ashram],
and of course I wasnt allowed to go into the ashram because Im not a disciple. In
between the Hindu temple and the ashram there was a driveway [and] so I sat down in the
grass in the silence and started to meditate and open myself for the energy. After a while


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a Hindu monk walk[ed] up to me, [he was] very nice. We got into a conversation and he
asked what [was] I doing and I said, Oh, Im just meditating. I heard the master, the
guru is here, so Im just meditating to receive some of his energies. And as soon as I
mentioned the other partys name, his face just shut down on me. He just shut down
towards me because I was meditating to the other party and not to his party. So I thought
to myself, Isnt it nice if you dont belong to any group, you can be open for all?
I always had to deal with bringing together opposites in my lifeliving the
opposites so much. Thats probably why at this point I feel comfortable just in that
opposite world to live in and I always was. Even when I was with Sri Chinmoy and
would go meditate in the evening, he wanted his disciples to be dressed in Indian saris,
the women had long hair and look kind of like the Indian women. So of course you adapt
to it when you're in the group because that is what guru said. But in the day I would work
in an advertising agency. I had to dress up in modern life, with makeup and deal with a
neurotic advertising agency world. And [switching back and forth] was not really a
problem for me. I kept wondering about myself, Am I not loyal to myself? What is
wrong with me? Saint Teresa of Avila, a mystic from Europe, she once saidit was a
feast day in the monastery and they had pheasant to eat, and somebody said something to
herYou know, when there is fasting time, then its time for fasting, but when there is a
feast, its time for pheasant. Theres a time for everything, and theres so much to it.
Mother Theresa once said, It doesnt matter what you do, its only important how you
do it.
I do have a good part of Eros in me, the one that just wants to sit in the mountain
and meditate. Im doing my best to go back to [experiencing the light, being in higher


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consciousness] and if daily routine takes me away into what I have to do, what I should
do and all the daily thinking, its fine with me. Its part of the Integral Yoga. If I would
have been supposed to meditate all day long I would have ended up in a monastery or in a
cave, but Im in a Western life. So Im really in peace with it, Im not looking for a
monastery anymore or for a cave or a secluded ashram. Integral Yoga really means to me
to bring it into this world, to bring the light, to bring whatever I can into my body, into
my mind, into this life wherever I live, whatever people Im with.
[A few years ago [if] youd asked me whats [my] biggest wish, Id say, I just
want to go to a monastery for a week, [I dont] care what denomination or what religion,
I just want to stay in silence for a week and be fed three times a day and go for walks and
do some work. <Laughter> But now that has changed too. I do have my meditation; I
dont even have regular mediations. For a while I was beating myself up, Oh I need to
mediate on a regular basis, everyday a certain time, once or twice. But with my life with
a little child, and all the work I have, my life is much more spiritual if I let go of that
concept. But then whenever the time comes up, Ill do it. And I notice the inner guidance
is there more and more about that. All of sudden this half hour opens up, Ah, I can sit
down and meditate right now! At times where I would not have expected it, I would
have not thought about it, but it sure does make me so much more flexible and much
more open to receive the guidance. Reading Mothers Agenda and especially Sri
Aurobindo and the Mother never giving specific spiritual practices and exercises you
have to do on such-and-such intervals or daily or whatever, it made me more aware that
there must be a bigger picture. Even so, I experienced its tremendously important to be
regular, especially in the beginning.


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But right now in my life it is more important to open up, go with the flow, be
focused on the Mothers flow. And its an obedience too, [in] a way, [to resist if] my
mind thinks, But I has to be this way, but it has to be this way! And Mother even [says]
that your morals or ethics can [get] in your way.
Experiences
Sri Chinmoy
I really have had many significant experiences; my diaries are full of them. I
thought about it and I collected a few. The very first one was [when] I saw Sri Chinmoy
the first time in person. It was this huge concert hall and I was way in the back/top in the
balcony. He came onto the stage, didnt say a word, and he folded his hands and started
to meditate. I felt a power Ive never felt before. That was definitely the first experience
that changed my life, to experience such a power, such a power.
Marathon
Then, I [ran] the New York marathon and in the second quarter of the marathon,
all of a sudden I saw Jesus on the horizon. And for miles and miles I just ran completely
effortless in a different state of mind. The body just kept going and Jesus or the Christ
was just present there. That was another one.
Krishna
Then, Krishna was very close to me too for a long time, his presence. When I
would go running his presence would just be right there with me. Or I would go for a
walk and his presence was there. Id look at the dirt on the road and Krishna was
reflected in the dirt.


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Light
Often in the car when I drive I just go into that higher consciousness and theres
so much light and just the spirit. More and more its just part of my daily life whenever I
remember it or whenever my mind calms down. For a few years I was always
complaining to myself about not being able to hold it for longer in daily life, but Im at
peace with myself now. Its just the progress.
Sometimes, I feel the crown chakra, I feel a lot of energy there. Sometimes I even
look around [asking myself], Did the sun come out? Its just in a blink of an eye. Its
almost in the moment you think about it, it goes away, or you can grasp but you cant.
Sometimes, I feel the light coming out of my eyes, its coming through me. I guess there
is an inner light I see. Sometimes, when I go on a walk and have that experience it feels
like the air gets [clearer] and even gets [lighter] and vibrant, more shiny.
When Im driving, theres light just coming inside me. [It comes through] the
crown and in the heart chakra [at the same time]. It doesnt change what I see. [It just
stays there]. What Im seeing is getting [clearer] and more vibrant. The light has an
energy flowing, going out through my eyes. My perception is that its always there for
me, it depends upon me, whether I can receive it, whether I open myself for it.
Actually, I usually think the Supreme [does] it or the Mother. I almost think now
its actually the Mother or my psychic being that is helping me from the other side to go
through the blankets of the daily thoughts. I think more and more its not even me; its
the other side helping me to break through the veil. It is definitely when Im by myself.
Sometimes its just doing the dishes, but sometimes its not doing the dishes. I dont
know as to what percentage its me or its the other side working on it. Its just always


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there as soon as the layer between the busy mind and the quiet mind, as soon as the layer
gets thinner, it breaks through. I think the other side supports and works 24/7, its right
there.
And Im at peace with it too because when I do certain things I do need my mind
to focus on certain things and thats part of it too to me, [the other side isnt] excluded.
Helping my daughter get dressed and get ready for school, helping her with homework,
its part of my sadhana now too. Its [not] excluded. A few years ago I met a very
spiritual person who could easily go in higher realms, a very delightful being, but she told
me she can hardly go to the bank, it makes her feel so uncomfortable and she is so
affected by the energy. At first I thought, Wow. But in my sadhana, I am grateful that I
am very capable of functioning in this world so I can really bring it into this world, into
our Western busy, busy daily work world. So Im grateful for it. Thats why I feel for me;
its part of sadhana in that [its not difficult now].
Of course Im seeking [more experiences] but its not a seeking like Oh where is
it? Oh, please, please. Its more like, Have a minute, lets meditate. Its me, the work
is more to prepare myself constantly, open myself as much as possible, and it will come.
Its there anyway, its right there for me, open. And Im not addicted to it, whether I feel
shakti, its right there anyway, its my consciousness. [Its more of a confidence and a
faith that its there]. Its right there. The Mother is right there.
Shiva and Shakti
Another experience more recently was when I went on a walk I had Shiva and
Shakti in their eternal embrace and ecstasy in front of me. Not with my physical eyes, but
in front of me. Really big, really present, with tremendous ecstasy in everything that is.


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Its just an ecstasy in all manifestation. All manifestation has an inherent ecstasy of
Shakti and Shiva uniting. [I was feeling them] in me, around me. Sometimes it is just the
Supreme, the Eternal, the unmanifested manifested, and sometimes its more the Mother,
to me more the concrete Mother. [I can see them and feel them.] Its always the feeling
that comes first. And then the pictures come too, but its always the feeling that comes
first.
Body vs. Mind Handling Energies
Running marathons, I noticed that my body can handle much more than my mind;
its always the mind first that tells you, Oh I cant anymore, I have to stop now, I'm at
my end, I cant anymore. But if you break through that, your body is still going. And
even if its in pain, your body is still going. It keeps going; its always the mind. And I
feel that too when I feel those energies, when I feel that tremendous happiness, ecstatic
happiness, joy, its always the mind that goes, Oh, I cant take anymore, oh thats too
much! And then I consciously stay with it and then I say, Now I can take more and
more and I can, I can. I am aware that I can more but Im aware of the limits of my
small consciousness, of my small little mind. [Or just the immediate blocks that your
minds wants to put up]. The running experience was always a very good thing for me to
be aware that I can take much more than my mind. The experience is in a very physical
way, with running, its very convincing. The mind always wants something [it] can
touch, [it] can touch and feel and then you feel those breakthroughs; your body can feel.
[The mind also has a tendency to want to assert control, and these are experiences where
control is not an issue.]



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The Mother
And then the Mother [is] becoming more and more present in everyday activities;
she is just there. There is just a thin veil of my ignorance between her and me and my
daily life. And it goes back and forth between the Supreme and between the Mother. I
would say the experience of the Mother has endured the most. I was always attracted to
the Mother, but for many years the only means I had to look for her was in Christianity in
Mother Mary. Now when I look back on it, I just see the Eternal Mother coming to me in
whatever picture I'm capable of approaching. Kali was very close to me for awhile too
and I just grew so much in Mother Kalis facet of destroying energy, destroying whats in
the way of the higher, which is not very present in Christianity. But I see everything
coming together in the Mother. I would say this is the most enduring.
Its always coming together. I was attracted to the philosopher, Goethe. [He]
wrote Faust, his biggest epic. I felt attracted to it when I was 18 or 19. I didnt even know
why, I just felt attracted and I read it. I didnt even understand what I was reading. Every
10 years I picked it up and started reading it again. A few years ago I read it again, the
whole thing too, and gosh, its so spiritual. And at the end the whole dedication is all
about the Mother. If you look at the last few pages, its all about the Mother. Its the
female/the woman he has betrayed who is praying for him so that his soul will get saved.
He is always looking for the female too, in different stages, and at the very end its the
Mother again for him and he says something really about the Mother, its so interesting,
having a child, the goddess, the Mother, the manifestation.
My most enduring is always the Mother. [The energies of the feminine and the
Mother and the force of manifestation, Shakti.] And the Mother, thats the one that


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manifests. I make pictures once a while and I drew a picture with a hula dancer and she is
in one hand grasping up to the sky, touching the fabric of the sky, bringing down the stars
and the stars transform into flowers and fall on the ground and she is having a rainbow
coat around her, all the colors. Its the Mother that manifests in this world; that is the
manifesting power. Even so, I do have a part of Eros and Agape.
Dream That Helped to Remove Fear
I once had an extremely interesting dream, which was very, very intense, and I
could consciously go back in my dream. I was in a tunnel and I got executed, I got shot.
The dream started out that my executioners bring me to the point where I [am braced]
against the wall and then they stand across me and they shoot [me]. And I was in
complete horror and fear. So the bullet got fired, and while the bullet was on its way, a
being came from above and just took me out of the body, and when the bullet reached my
body, no problem, I was out of my body, I didnt feel anything, I was not attached
anymore, I was detached already from the body. And then in my dream I said to myself,
Wow, so there was no reason to be afraid. Lets do it over again. And I went back in
my dream and had the same kind of like repeat. And my executioner walked me again to
the place on the wall where I had to stand, and I was not afraid anymore; I was not afraid
anymore. They shot again and the dream stopped with the feeling, Im not afraid
anymore; no big deal, they (the beings from above) take you out.
And then years later, I met a very interesting soul in my life and I saw in an inner
vision that Id met [him many] lifetimes before [where] we had been killing each other,
thousands [of] years ago. We kept killing each other. I saw this one time when I killed
him and I had so much hate towards him and I think I had a sword and I just beat him up.


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[I] wanted to kill his whole being and I felt I can only kill the body, I cant kill the soul, I
cant kill the Supreme inside that being. I cant kill the eternal in that body. And it was a
big revelation. That vision really taught me that even killing can teach you. So what is
there to judge for us, its all a great teaching, for consciousness to get conscious in
matter. [I felt] extremely grateful [knowing this.] Even though he didnt treat me very
nicely on the outside [in this lifetime], but Im extremely grateful. [Our connection]
doesnt matter anymore, but Im just extremely grateful for that soul to go through those
experiences with me, to give each other the opportunities.
Current Issues and Challenges
Seeing The Divine in Others
Sometimes its amazing and I look at the plants around [my booth] and they get
so vibrant and I can see the Supreme in those plants and the spirit in those plants. Ive
had many, many hours of wonderful sadhana there. Yesterday I got the idea to
wherever it came from, I dont think its mejust look at the people. I had eight or nine
people around my table, and I got the idea [to] just see the Supreme in them. And I
looked at them and focused on seeing the Supreme. There was so much light in there and
there were no more thoughts about, Well are they going to buy it or not? It was just
[the] Supreme there in every soul around me, a Supreme light in the consciousness and
the eternal and it was so fulfilling. So you can really see, whenever you go, theres no
limit to sadhana. <Laughter> Its uplifting and the more you do the more it comes to you
and you can do it wherever you go.
Sometimes with some people I have the most wonderful talks and I feel so happy
afterwards. And Im getting more aware that Im consciously searching for that little light


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in them. Somehow even if the conversation [is] about the weather, I feel there is a content
there that makes me happy beyond just a simple conversation.
And I really love people more and more. <Laughter> I really start[ed] falling
more and more in love with people. Its not a romantic falling in love, but it is kind of a
merging or diving. Sometimes I dive into their beauty, its so funny! <Laughter>
Sometimes I have such beautiful people coming to my table, and [by] beautiful, I dont
mean the mainstream beautiful. Its harmonious, [their inner] beauty shines through, or it
goes hand-in-hand sometimes with the outer beauty. I remember this one gentleman, you
would say he was an ugly person, but there was something shining from the inside,
shining to me [and] I perceived it [as]. Oh what a beautiful soul; oh what a beautiful
human being.
I feel I can drink out of [peoples] eyes sometimes. Thats what I felt a lot with Sri
Chinmoys disciples as well as other disciples or spiritual beings; they have so much light
in their eyes. I look in their eyes, I feel like as if I'm drinking their light. It almost seems
openness. To me it just seems an openness and the only thing thats in our way is our
mind, our concepts.
More recently I have felt more comfortable now with that I really do have needs
here. There was always that ascetic feeling inside of melike living in a monastery. You
have two pairs of habits, whatever they call the clothes, and you dont have much of your
own possessions, but then of course the monastery cares for everything else you need. I
took that simplicity or that ascetic thinking a lot with me into my life and thought I
shouldnt have all those needs. [And] recently it dawned on me, I am not living in a
monastery that takes care of me. I just have to generate that myself and its completely


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okay to have a decent wardrobe in this society. <Laughter> Can you believe I studied
fashion design when I was in my 20s? I have a degree in fashion design. Now I enjoy
colors, I enjoy fabrics, and I do enjoy a nice dress, but I'm not attached to it anymore. The
key is detachment, absolutely. And I dont want to stick out, I dont want to get clothed in
rags to be a nuisance to my family or to people in a society. I dont need to do wear the
nicest dress to church, to be the nicest one or whatever, but yet when I wear a nice dress,
Im happy about it.
And then we talked about shadow work, and Ken Wilber supports [doing] shadow
work. You can meditate for 20 years, you will not see your shadow. You cant approach
the shadow from the inside. Everybody else can see your shadow from the outside, but
you cant see it from the inside. And thats why he said its so important to do the shadow
work. And doing it helped me a lot. We live in a society with a lot of greed and it kept
bothering me. I finally said I should do the shadow work with it, and you know what? I
have that part in me too where I want money, where I have greed. And just to say, Hi to
that part in me, [to] say, You know what, thats part of me too, it freed me so much, it
freed me so much. It made me stand on my two feet more and more. It opened the lower
chakras. So now, when Im selling my products, I focused on that again, telling myself,
Yep, Im greedy too. Hey, people, I want your money! I want your money, because I
want to buy this and this and this. I dont feel ashamed of it anymore. I'm not pretending
to be holy anymore. I dont share it with people, but I'm sharing it with myself and it
relaxes me a lot in my lower chakras and I feel much more honest. [It makes me think of
the aspect when we talk about purifying ourselves and how Sri Aurobindo had talked
about that its important to purify yourself at the same time you're aspiring to connect


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with the Divine. I think the whole term purify usually means to find something and get
rid of it. Im wondering whether purify really means to just find those hidden parts of
ourselves, acknowledge them, but dont let them control us? And thats a totally different
definition of purify, but it also makes sense because were human too.] The work [of]
getting rid of it once, of pushing it aside, that wont solve it. But when you acknowledge
it, and you start liking yourself a little bit for it, maybe you take it with some humor. I
like when Mother in her Agenda talks a lot about those forces that can give us thoughts
that can affect our feelings and thoughts, our emotions. [This way] takes the individual
guilt or blame off of all those different negative emotions we have, the negative parts. We
are all connected together and that each force is working on us too, so at the end we dont
need to beat ourselves up about it.
You asked about getting new insights, Im getting new insights all the time. And
I'm looking for them too. Im looking for them inside. I know that I ask [a] question and
if I cant understand it or answer it right away Ill get the answer sooner or later. Even if I
dont ask for it, I will get it anyway.
[With regard to] profound transformations in myself I have noticed [that I am]
definitely more simple, more grateful, hopefully more humble. Even so, the moment you
think about, that youre humble, I think youre not humble anymore. <Laughter> I feel
more being in the moment. People tell me that I always seem very calm and serene to
them, which is not always the case, but at least I give the impression that I do have way
more serenity and calm inside of me as I used to have. I easily bounce back from
problems, from difficult situations.


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Of course, my focus in life completely shifted than when I was 20. My top focus
is just helping the Mother to bring down the force, I think thats the most important,
[thats] why Im here. And then everything, [being with and] raising my family and all
the means to keep that going, its definitely being an instrument for the Mother for her
work. And there is not an I in it. There is no I for me that I have to reach something;
its really about the supramental. Im just more attentive than I ever was; I live happier,
more content. I live a real simple life[family] and my sadhana everything else is
really not that important anymore. Vacation, or going to the movies, or going out for
dinner, all of that, its just not that important anymore. I enjoy it, Im grateful, [and] Im
more balanced.
Feeling Different Yet Connected
Whats challenging over last few years, I felt less and less not understood by
anybody else around me, and that for a while gave me some suffering, but not anymore.
Its about 0.01% of Western society on that level we are, 0.01, so never mind, anybody
around? But theyre out there.
Once I had the intense experience that there was some kind of soul sitting
somewhere in India on a mountain meditating, connecting to me, connected to me. And
since that experience I have a stronger feeling that we are connected in the inside, all of
us, doing whatever sadhana we do and on whatever stage, we are connected and we do
support each other, even if [we] dont know each other. And thats a big comfort for me
to know that and I do feel connected. Were all connected and we all support each other,
and every one of your insights helps me in my ascension, can help the supramental on its
descension, every single little bit helps. Even the little insights, what seems to be a little


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insight for a very fundamentalist religious person, helps the whole world, it all helps. And
now Im at peace that I have nobody around me. But on the other hand, I feel more
helpful. Now if I have people with whatever problems coming to me, I want to be an
instrument for the Supreme to help them, Im not sacrificing myself. Im listening inside
what I have to tell them, how much I have to help them; Im more open to guidance from
inside.
Being vs. Doing
[I think there are a lot of people that dont understand that just by being, we are
doing more for the planet and for humanity than by doing.] Sri Chinmoy said, if you want
the world to change, change yourself first, and thats hard. I gave my daughters teacher a
little gift today, and I tried to tell her that her work is more important than any big
athletes, stars, or whoever the big people in the mainstream. Her work is more important
to me. The real important work cant be seen by mainstream, the real important work.
The Mother said something really interesting about it in her Agenda. In the very first
book, April 1954, she says, Because truth is not linear, but global, and not successive,
but simultaneous. Truth is simultaneous. It can therefore not be expressed in words, it
must be lived.
Impact of The Interview
When I thought about all your questions, it made me aware how really different I
might be from [the] mainstream and most of the times Im not even aware how fortunate
I am. Thinking about your questions made me aware of that. During our interview and
right now I feel immensely grateful for everything in my life, really everything for the


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interview and for the whole world, I just feel so grateful. I feel very grateful for what
youre doing; Im very grateful for your work


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Running Water Story

[Right now] Im experiencing a sort of pressure between my eyes, brows, and in
my chest, and sort of a pressure. It almost feels like a pressure but its a widening in the
skull.
Sadhana
[My sadhana is] not just a sitting down thing because at a certain point in time I
do a lot of walking. The body is included, this is not just about mental states of
meditation, and Im inspired to walk and to remember this while Im walking so that the
meditation is taking place on a completely integral level, that, not just sitting.
An everyday ritual would be to read Savitri, chant it, which means to read it out
loud as a mantra, and then to focus on contacting what is the psychic being or the soul,
Divine Mother, by surrendering to the Divine Mother, to actually the image of the Divine
Mother as not necessarily visually but by sense of the Divine Mother, Mirra Alfassa, and
that is the ritualistic practice.
And, as far as a method, Ive come to, to find focusing is important. Focusing,
trying to focus as I mentioned is often an interference, but the sense of Oh, gather
yourself, is important because there needs to be, you need to gather yourself in to bring
these energies to it, thats to almost to attract these energies, to silence the forces, the
laws themselves and release you. But, the trying and the focusing require an immense
amount of energy, and a long period of time to become exceptionally effective. Ive
worked at it a long time, but what Ive found to be even more effective is once I make
this sort of symbolic centering and focusing, is then to offer surrender, consecrate it, to
give myself to the Mother. I know shes there, I know shell be there, and I know her


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force will take me there, and thats the processes. Just doing that, breathing,
remembering, and offering.
And if I cant, if thats not that effective, I repeat a mantra. And it could be a
variance of things; it could be Thy Will Be Done, or Ma Ma, om namo bhagavate, which
is sort of I bow to thee. Its really, theyre all on consecration, the tones; and then
surrender. For that, for that will, to that energy, that is that higher aspect thats free to
then permeate. And it does affect the cells, long-term wise. Now I know the changes that
are taking place and the emotions. When they talk about purification.
There is so much in me that doesnt want to let it in, the habituation. So many
habituations, so many fixed identities and attachments. The memory, as Ive worked with
it and experimented with it, and in yoga and in psychology for my studies, where Ive
come to is its, its locked in the physical inertia of the matter of the universe. That each
moment may be eternal in and of itself, but we psychologically have formulations, forms
take place, that are possessed, controlled by, primarily held in place by the tamas, the
physical inertia in the universe that does not want to change or move. Theyre colored by,
theyre made enticing by the emotions that are impulses that are not developed, the
animal aspect in us, again is so affected by the memory in the physical cells, the genes,
that fixes it this way, and thus when we get to the level of wanting to grow
psychologically and intellectually, most of what we want to look at or do is colored by
those two other things, the lower emotions and the memories. And they fix it, they make
us fearful to go ahead, they make it fearful to widen, they make us see only things in one
way, things like that, hold on, attach. [Getting a somatic or kinesthetic sensation with it,
the bodily type of feeling?] Both.


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[I have figured out how to move from tamas.] It is in the moment that it changes,
as I experience it, there is not a permanence to it as were constructed, as Im constructed,
I believe that, that, there must be more the massive change and that massive change takes
place drop by drop, I as an individual am not going to change all of the formation of
matter, so that, I can release myself somewhat emotionally, somewhat mentally from the
throngs of it by bringing this experience of the Mother in, by meditating, centering on
what I call the psychic being, the soul. These things bring in energies and forces, I cant
say what those are specifically, I can just say that as experiencing they free one from the
grip, the attachment, the law of those forces as they exist in the dimensions we live in
normally. So its a transformative process.
Unfortunately one of the difficulties as it originated is that I was going down into
the realms that were the darkest, and this is where my battle was. So in some sense, I
would say, Ive come to say, Well this is what shes brought me here for. She brought
me here to battle and to embrace the transforming of the lower emotional, particularly,
and physical worlds of myself. My physical being and my emotional, lower emotional
being, nervous system is an interchange between them, a communication between them.
From a very early age [I was] concerned with justice and what is right in the
world and, and, and what is painful in the world and who is painful and taking those
[disenfranchised] populations on and people to become simply human in society and
acceptedfrom working with racism towards [minorities] in public high school when I
was there, to working with dying people and AIDS. And I did work with the elderly for a
long period, and pain patients, all these different things. When you take them on, you
dont know how many energies youre taking on. I see, particularly in the mental health


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field, how many people become unstable and people say, Well yeah, the people in that
field are unstable. But, no, I dont think its so much that but that they embrace unstable
energies and they dont have the means of working with it that are fully effective as much
as can be a lifelong yoga, which harmonizes and balances and works with energies and
dissipates [them]. I dont think we know much about what are called formations, thought
patterns. These are not only mental but physical. They become physical, that is, in a
crowd when you see people get excited you see how it tangentially moves out.
But the same thing happens with diseases and with thoughts, when working with
the dying, people around dying people, with all their fears. I was absorbing up with it
quite a bit by offering myself in this manner to work with this. Not fully knowing
everything, because I had been brought to the point near death numerous times, with
many of these things and its not just in a room with people, but the buildup of these
energies. You absorb them because something in you is taking, thats what I mean by
embracing, really embracing, you really absorb them. And, it can bring you to, it can
collapse your being. And I think Ive reached that point numerous times, and if it wasnt
for the yoga and the Mother and this whole higher process, she is bringing me through
that, Id be a done fellow.
[Its as if you have embodied, not only did you come into this world with a
physical being that felt it but you have embodied the energetics of the others as well that
you then take into your own physical consciousness and do battle there.] Yeah. [It almost
seems as if you have taken on the responsibility within your field, your energy field. To
clear out the muck, the dark forces, of the nonmainstream populations.] I didnt leave the
walls up. I still wont leave walls up, but, there are, there are awarenesses that know how


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to work with the energies. You step away from certain things. That doesnt mean youve
decided not to work with them. You dont immerse yourself in the most dangerous
situation and let it destroy, you take a posture, and that posture could be physical distance
or it might not be, but, yes, I do believe that I made a decision. Its an assignment I took
on.
Experiences
Gold Light
Ive had some of the most profound experiences actually when Im gardening.
The most powerful one I can describe, and its one that joyfully inspires me to want to
repeat it because I know it is a signpost, but when Im gardening and when Ive let go of
all busyness which it takes me to and it grounds me. It can be momentarily happening.
When I notice it often it breaks up, but there is an energy and a permeation of peace and
delight and the light literally changes to gold. The hue of everything is gold. Through my
eyes, my eyes are open. This was a struggle for me for a long time, expecting to go in and
discover all kinds of things when very often what happens more is when Im in my
everyday life, in functioning, particularly with physical things that, in a nonmeditative
state, are spontaneous.
The primary thing that is different is a lack of cognitive analysis. The mind, I
believe, has fallen silent. And the awareness is there, but its momentary, its, its right
with what is being done and there is a physical emotional feeling of joy, of calmness, like
that moment itself is an eternity, and theres a great deal of energy. I feel incredibly
renewed. And its not dramatic, I, I dont consider it dramatic except that afterwards
when I reflect on it, I go, Oh, wow. It definitely slips in, in that sense, when we try to


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meditate or we try, with the lack of trying its, its being, and its beingfor a long time
that was the most [frequent] occurrence, that was a signpost of my knowing that I was
centered in my deeper self as I was functioning and not scattered.
[How long would it last when you have, go into these, or be in these places/
states?] Thats a very difficult one for me to know. I would guess that sometimes, this has
been going on for 15, 20, 30 minutes and when I notice it, it ends. Its like a part of me
thats used to a particular habit of being in a certain way, which is neurotic or lethargic,
or hyperactive, discovers that its not being that and it wants to know whats going on.
And literally I find myself saying, Whats that? Whats happening? And in a sense, that
is again the resistance, our habitual resistance, that comes in, and doesnt allow the state,
ends the state. And then its useless to try to get back there unless I just let go of it and
continue to garden because again its that, its that, hungry ghost thing in Buddhism
where its the vital, its I want that back, I want that back, I want and then the mind
trying figure out how to get it; and its, you cant do it.
The Mother
The most profound [experience] has to do with the Mother. The most profound
experience that Ive ever had I believe is of the Mother appearing to me, and my not
knowing whether she was here in this physical world or whether I was in some other
world. It was so concrete and so real. I say that this is the most profound in the sense that,
that at a given moments notice, if I need to try to rescue myself from, or need to, want to
go in where I cant reproduce that other state that I was speaking about [that happens
when Im gardening], this can come instantly and at any moment I can return to this
sense.


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And in this experience, I was in a very, very desperate place. The universe is just
amazing in this sense, and I appreciate the paradox of the universe because of this
experience. But I probably was in an emotional state then of collapse. I had gone through
so much pain and I didnt know where to turn. All, anything that I had learned or known
didnt suffice and wasnt enough energy or nurturing, so that I was really in that moment
and in that day on the verge of possible breakdown completely, emotionally, mentally.
The stress factor was so great. And there was this appearance. I was in my room and I
was on the floor. I was possibly going to meditate but I was distraught, and on the wall
across from me something caught my attention. And I started to look with a curiosity
which started to pull me out of wherever I was, and I was, I believe I was crying at the
time. And a light started to form and take shape, and out of this light, which was a
yellow-green light, the image, bodily image, whole bodily image of the Mother appeared
in this room that I was in. And she looked at me, and it was very ethereal, the imagery
was, she was there, but, and the energy was there, so it was like she was floating, coming
out of this wall and the light, and, she was floating there, not necessarily off the ground.
And she just looked at me. She had this sari on that was, all these beautiful flowers and
butterflies, very, everything was very light, very beautiful. And with this incredible
compassionate look, she spoke to me and said, My darling little child, never worry.
Simply remember Im always with you and call.
And as she said that, a mist traveled across the room, through me, it penetrated, it
felt like it penetrated every single atom of my being physically, so that as it passed
through me I was no longer in the state that I had been, so distraught. I was completely at
peace, completely. And to this day I could, when I recall that, its amazing the


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penetration that it has into all the cells of my body and to every part of my body, and that
her force could do that. The contact with that force literally in this physical world and my
physical body had that effect. I cant reproduce seeing her. [But that feeling in your
cells?] At will.By calling her and remembering that experienceI cant always do
that, but when, when I sit down to do it, when I know I need to center myself, and I dont
think about doing that and Ive been busy or something and, I say, Why dont I
remember and say, Why dont I just and I call her, and I recall, not only call her but
I recall that moment and my body starts tingling in the peace of her.
Opening Up
There was one experience where I was reading, traveling across country on bus
and reading Savitri. I was reading it day in and day out, every hour of the day, every
minute of the day as I was traveling. This was about 25 years ago. And I started
wondering, Well, who are you? almost as though I was speaking to someone. I was
reading, and pausing, and I wasnt aware that I was, what I believe now was in trance,
sitting on a bus with people around me, reading Savitri, not aloud, but I was reading it.
And there was this incredible pressure as I was reading it, and I felt like I was dozing off,
but I was wide awake and I felt, Well, who are you then? Who are you then? And this
answer kept coming to me, and it wasnt someone speaking to me, it was just an answer,
Well do you know Christ? Well, do you know Christ? And I said, Well, Im confused
about who Christ is and who you are. And I was having this dialogue go on. And I said,
Are you Aurobindo or are you Krishna? And are you Krishna or are you Christ? Is there
is a difference?


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And this whole dialogue was going on and the bus had come to a stop, Im in this
trance state seemingly, but Im able to function and get off the bus. And people are going
into this little shop and Im standing there and all of a sudden theres this feeling at the
top of my head and theres this light and something is dancing on my head. And Im like,
What is going on? And Im trying to look up and theres this little fellow dancing on
my head that was a little boy, and he said his name was Krishna, and he was all gold. And
I said, Well who are you? And he goes, Im Krishna, and he giggled and he jumped
down and he said, Maybe Im Christ now. But dont you like the way I look? Im gold
and isnt it funny? And this laughiness. And at this point I see the commonality, the
divine love, and the joy and the wisdom, all is one, you know. So the forms are so, they
almost, they meet some sort of cultural and individual needs that people have. And so the
forms will come in whatever forms you can relate to. So that experience I think was
about opening up to whats there.
Experience of Forces/Beings Coming Through Him
It depends on the intent. Ive only recently been intelligent enough to bring that
intent to everything I do in writing. Generally theres an energy, and that energy is
always the same, but depending on the specific moment and purpose they may be
different forms. And this is something more recent that I've actually begun to experience
and see, which I normally dont see, but as I say, that this is progressing seemingly at a
rapid pace in the last several years and more so month-to-month.
And Im pleased that I wasnt able to see forms. We grab [things like that] so
much and I look at people that have grabbed it, certain images and things and get locked
into them, and theyre abstractions. It seems again this pattern that Ive been put to, its


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very concrete, its right here; so I feel it here. I feel myself opening, the physical body,
that everything is in the action as Im being with it, and when that stops then it stops and I
dont necessarily go to higher realms or go up through the top of my head, and out. I can
feel the pressure here and an energy, a warmth and a tingling on the top of my head, and I
have a sense sometimes when things may be issuing forth from there or from the between
the eyes or from the center of the chest. And then sometimes its just the whole body that
is there with it. But theres a sense of me, and again, its the nondramatic, its like, its
just there, and, arent I supposed to be seeing people and hearing voices and talking to
angels, and its just there. So theres a sense of it just being that, that almost says maybe I
havent reached anything, but its been wonderful because its something thats forced
humility. Its something that gets to the point better than, rather than being preoccupied
with fancy little trimmings that arent relevant to anything but my own ego.
However, there are faces that come forward, of beings, and although I dont hear
voices or so far have not let in that close enough contact that they speak to me in a verbal
or, maybe I dont need to because thoughts and feelings and things come to me. They
just, theyre just there. Its coming from the Divine Mother in my soul, presence of the
Divine Mother primarily. And I believe that she calls from above, sometimes to Sri
Aurobindo, who has a presence, and sometimes to other beings whether theyre in whats
called the akashic realms or wherever. At one point I thought that these were too angelic.
But sometimes I believe, Im opening and called to be opening to the Divine force in my
soul which is the Mother, and she is bringing these things through a personality, a gnostic
personality, that is being formed. So one of the reasons why I only, or usually say that
Im sitting here and theres this pressure and this energy and this stuff, and Im just


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writing or Im just saying or speaking, I believe, and its something Ive never even said
before to anyone, that maybe theres a personality that has been formed in me which
might be called a psychic being that might be formed enough so that it is my divine
personality. And it cant come forward fully yet because Im not totally harmonized or
fully harmonized. I dont have, Im not developed enough yet fully. And the spirit of the
Divine Mother, she doesnt have to be the formation of the teacher each time. She can
bring these other beings to me at times and they, its almost like a salutary introduction,
but again its that embracing. Its, I let them, I let myself embrace who they are and the
force that the Mother brought through them to me. And its there in me, and its my
personality expressing it. Its not that person with lightening and tablets chipping away
and saying say this, its just there. Why I dont know, [maybe] because I need to develop
more or not, or its just a style, I dont know, no clue, thats what is there. And
interestingly with that, it can, it can change in numerous ways.
Current Issues and Challenges
TraumaCrisisAsking for HelpNew Experience
The negatively, and I say that relatively speaking, intensive experiences that take
place, such as the near death experiences, create a crisis, the trauma creates a crisis,
which in a nonevolving way says, How can I protect myself if the protection can be so
much of a [nervous overload], a constriction, that it really kills you? It defeats its
purpose. At that same time, it, because I've been fortunate to have something in me that
calls out for help and has reached a particular vibration/entity, which I call the Mother, it,
each time, has served as cracking the cosmic egg open more in allowing the new birth, a
deeper, a deeper living.


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Unfortunately it takes sometimes, the pain sometimes creates more, more death,
more birth from the death, than if, we tend to waddle along a lot. I hate to say it, but they
may have sped things up, the near death experiences, more than slowed them down.
There are times when Ive been so overwhelmed I thought it, I couldnt go any further.
Then boom! It unfolds because Im crying out so much, so deeply, so intensely, and its
that, its that intensity of practice, the intensity of the call, the sincerity of it, which I
mean is the consistency, the consistency develops more, concentrated intensity, I really
want it, I really want to surrender, and, and, theres no fooling around. Otherwise I might
be dead. And, with the [overloads] and the near death experiences, but particularly the
[overloads], it has been a concentration of that force, those near deaths and intense
aspiration. It creates my, it created my aspiration.
Change in Sadhana
Now what it has come to at this point is that I believe and it is very concrete in the
sense that if I dont do that daily practice, I have not realized the psychic being, I have
not what they call realized, has a true, has a real meaning to me now. Its like a plant
needing fertilizer and the daily practice is this fertilizer that allows the roots to feed on
the Mother, which is the soul. She is the Divine Presence in/as the soul which becomes in
my personality the psychic being. There is an operative force of that working.
What it does on a daily basis is, in given moments I'm prompted to be more alert
to remember to surrender and call, moment to moment, when things are happening,
instead of getting/allowing myself to get caught up. If Im in a grocery store and someone
is being really obnoxious to me in line or something, instead of getting caught up or
wanting to argue, theres a presence there that, I breath out, I center, its there, and I let


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myself, I let that govern what Im going to do. I step out of the way, the ego steps out of
the way, and thats there more and more and more, particularly, its a realization that I
need to foster it. When I dont, its like falling off a cliff. It dissipates quickly, and thats
a wonderful lesson. Circumstances and stresses, they are multiplied a thousand times,
maybe because Im more sensitive, but also I think as you move along the path, your
capacity draws more energy and so if youre not tuned in to the right part of yourself, the
force thats there as an energy multiplies the impact of the negative things that will come
at you, it attracts more negative to you.
But when its there, it doesnt matter how forceful some of these negative things
are, you might, it might attract some negative things and again its, its sort of like a
laboratory when it says to you, See, youre centered. This doesnt touch you. And
sometimes some of the most amazing things that are negative are happening and its like,
Im in this state of calm and its like this is new, this is good, this is really developing.
And it allows me to be that, again back to the practice, more relaxed and calm and
surrendering, accepting that its real. Again, it all regenerates itself. It comes [out] more,
the way that youre working with the outer world, each thing. How it feels, how you cope
with it, and your practice. It renews inspiration by its continued effect, blossoming,
radiance. Its been a lot of work, and a lot of grace.
But Im beginning to notice more in the last 5-10 years deep emotional changes
and even physical changes that are taking place. And I know that because Ive had a
lifelong [nervous system] disorder, which is dissipating. And it went through a period
where there was both the most chaos and the most change taking place where they
increased and this was only just five years ago. [The overloads] had become worse than


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they ever had, and part of that I believe was a physical resistance to this energy. I dont
think this body was capable of absorbing some of the energies, the nervous system was
overtaxed, and interestingly for me I believe that this has been a lifelong process. Its not
just matter of wanting to bring down energies and theyre overtaxing me, but a very
natural process to me that I am here for some reason to insist on embracing the physical
world, that its real, that its not the illusion that the American Buddhists particularly talk
about. And that I have really embraced some of the things that people in spirituality see
as below them.
What Im trying to get to here is that, often you hear people speak when theyre in
spiritual circles and they can very, oh its this way, or its light, or its this or that.
But theres a call if we really want to transform the world, that we have to love the world.
We have to really embrace the world physically, we have to love the plants, the earth,
even the muck. And its by loving this muck, the worst aspects in ourselves, you enable
the possibility of transforming. Its not a matter of going to the heights, its the heights
coming here and enabling them. The heights need to be grounded here in some way to
work with them. I believe the soul does that. So theres a lot, I believe, the Mother wants
me to take on, and anyone thats probably called to her is not going to have an easy time
necessarily if theyre really working with what she wants to work. I think Ive taken on
some of the more difficult things in human nature, in me, in myself. Im talking about the
vital world, Im talking about the physical world, Im talking about the animality in me,
and the naturalness of it, and my physical body, the cells, the atoms.
I think in many senses thats part of what my [overloads] were, I wasnt able to
work with the energies. And I was struggling to work with the energies, and struggling to


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maintain and, as this Integral practice really radiates through me more and more, I'm not
doing it at all. Its the Mothers grace, its just filling my body, and my responses to
things, and taking all of it and doing all of it. Its a divine energy thats there that has the
capacity to do it all. The ego cant manage it, and thats whether its the physical body
[or] emotional. At the same time those things are stronger and calmer, theres an
equanimity in the physical, and a stronger energy, but still, it doesnt have the capacity to
work with these things, has a capacity to be a channel.
Its happened for a while, but about 6 or 7 years, but its, the working with it more
clearly [that] has only developed recently. For a while, as I was saying, I just thought I
was having [an overload] all the time and it isnt that, although the [overloads] may be a
part of that happening, I cant say for sure. I know I was having [overloads]. Maybe there
was an unconscious person called Running Water that was having [overloads] up to a
certain point and then just realizing that they were just forces around, and now hes
operating in a way that manages those forces more and more, which could very well be.
And physically too, and now whats beginning to emerge in this sleep process is
even if I go deeper I go, its lighter, I travel more quickly to a place I call home, I get
home, and I go up as well as down. There are moments where there are, there are
explosions of light and I can see Sri Aurobindo or the Mother, and its not always just
them, but its, its what I call light beings that permeates. So now, something is coming in
and I have dramatically noticed a change in me and my life.
So its a very concrete practice. You come to know that youre working with
forces that are powerful, that are dangerous, that arent all so nice necessarily, and it
doesnt matter what circles youre in, theyre all around. And if youre opening to


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working with them theyre going to come at you, and theyre going to come at you even
harder because they dont want you to change necessarily. Or change them, or change the
status quo. I say I dont necessarily believe in morality and things like that, [but] I believe
in an innate goodness and in the soul of the universe. Ive widened my perspective of
what is good and what is bad. Ive widened how I see numerous things because of the,
the forces that Ive experienced. Im not so much of a pacifist, although I believe in the
path of love and peace and harmony and tend to extend that from myself.
I think there are forces that need to be stood up to at times. I think that the world
is a battlefront of change as well as a garden to work with in another type of manner. In
that I think Im trying to address working with things physically and that my [nervous
system disorder]. Interestingly in a really scientific approach of yoga in working from a
say a vipassana point of view, trying to be aware by the grace of the Mother, when I offer
myself, I offer to know if its useful, not to be attached to knowing.
But I have gained insights of this idea of possession and I think Aurobindo writes
about it pretty clearly in that he says that all of the world is possessed by the states that
dominate and all of the things in the world are possessed by those, so youre possessed by
the physical, youre possessed by the vital, and the mental, and those control us. Ive
come to see how the resistance and the vital energies, life energies, lower life energies,
that are chaotic, that are not in the moment but spontaneously attractive by their release
of energies by being in the moment, what we would call impulsive. Energies, theyre
nervous energies, restless energies, and this inertia, which is a closeness to death. But, the
physical matter isnt alive, its the life energies in them that brings life so, Ive actually
had to work with my [disorder] as a yogic therapy.


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And Ive come to experience that there are real forces that are dark, that dont
want to change, within me and me only, as example, as one crystallization of this world.
[Within the microcosm and the macrocosm then] Yeah, exactly. Both places. Because
ones aware of the other, were just working with whats in the whole.
I read more. I developed practices, which have changed, that theyve evolved over
a period of time. I went to graduate school. I wanted to integrate what I was learning
from the writings of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother in the work that entailed afterwards.
And that meant bringing it into pain work, bringing it into working with the dying,
bringing it into working with psychotic or autistic children. And it was brought to each of
those things in different ways, but always with a sense of centering, being present to the
Mother and asking for her guidance.
And thats a lot of how Ive integrated. Its developed from just being meditation
to working with it as a physical exercise or bringing into a body more. I began bringing it
in more, I tend to be naturally physical but particularly when I worked with dying
patients and before that with pain patients. The pain patients taught me so much about
this balance of awareness that can be worked with that if you own the body, if youve
learned a methodology and practice to own the body, how you can bring something into
the body thats so concrete and real. And my sadhana was being rewarded by having this
work to do with pain patients, which then made it so concrete for me. If these people can,
who, arent on this path of yoga in the way that I am, as a conscious practice, if theyre
just learning to do techniques that Im working with and it can become so real, then it can
be done. It makes it real for the physical world, and it makes the yoga itself more
concrete, makes it permeate more into my physical, as a physical practice. [Working with


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these people in the capacities of, probably some of the most intense human life
experiences that you can have, it taught me to realize that my meditation experience can
be embodied in the physical at the same time rather than it being a mental exercise].
[It then became absorbed into the physical one, in vital form, I guess, emotional
as well.] Yes. And as well with death. Both with pain patients and with dying patients.
When you see the surrender, when its the emotions and the fears that have surrendered,
the physical body might be in pain, might stay in pain for pain patients or it might die.
There are energies that are released. There are hormones as a result of that, enzymes as a
result of that that are released, but its triggered by this letting in. Its letting go and
letting in of these energies, and its very concrete.
Mandala as a Reflection of His Personality
When I was in graduate school we had to create this mandala for one class. I
[later] created a [large] garden that was the same mandala, at the center of which was Sri
Aurobindos symbol and then radiating out from under it was the Mothers symbol. It
was surrounded by a couple of whales at the top, and where the whales met there was a
rose. And at the bottom was there was the earth with a snake around it and the Mothers
symbol was a rainbow of colors on a light blue field and out beyond the whales there was
a dark blue field with stars. [Anyway,] we were supposed to write a psychological
understanding of the mandala, and what I wrote and submitted instead was a poem. And
the reason why Im bringing it is because I wrote this about 15 years or so ago and it still
feels as essentially, I touched something about who my mandala is, who I am, and, its
probably sort of like just this whole conversation in summary.
I am divine love. The worlds spirit moving towards harmony, moving, moving, moving.
Into form, out of form, moving out of stillness.


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In time as the snake sheds its skin, I am moving, evolving, shedding each seed pod to
unveil ever new forms of divine love.
I, harmony, am ever present, in different robes, lent by divine love, til human eyes have
shed enough tears, that they may finally see through the paradigm of paradox, witness in
full splendor the rose robe, unobstructed by the pendulum swing, resting, moving, in a
culminating balance, delicate as the mornings glory, yet unshakable as Hanumans love.
My violet boundaries, though dark deep containing, an infinity of light beings ever
present, to lift the traveler to some previously unknown, fully appropriate delight
inspiration truth.
I am mystery, grace force, who seems so far and are never more distant than a hearts
beat.
Without me there is no world movement. Indeed no world and thus I contain by my
shapes squared off all the rest of me, both outwardly and inwardly.
I am mandala, mini picture window of the self mystery, a vision key of the harmony to be,
and mana of the ever present truth.
If I am known so is the futures blossom, and the love filled path of least obstruction.
Though not so apparent, almost hidden by my circles spheres of harmony, I am the great
cross of sacrifice.
Give way, give way, give way oh little mind selfish attitude and fear-ridden body. I am
the father -vertical.
Relative- absolute, always separated by the seed. Seeking its blossom root.
I am the archetype, always available, never diminished, immortal union of equally
balanced poles.
Only by accepting of my brown, red earth humilities, only by skillful identity, with my
healing yellow-green life energies, only by conscious organization of my blue mental
networkers, only by surrender to my violet intuitive self, may the while light of gnosis, my
divine self permeate and unite the golden triangles of the upper and lower personality
poles revealing the tranquil joy of the Lotus-Rose Wisdom-Love form.
I am the Mother-horizontal, limited-infinite, linear in ignorance, spherical in
illumination.
The selfish selfless actor of vertical laws.
I am the drop and the ocean of grace which shatters resistance and connects the
unconnected, the contained and all-containing.
I have seduced the forces of the seven levels of being into action, and as they blossom and
radiate across the ocean of earth reality, so shall compassion spread its wings as the
vertical is united, so dissolved are the strings of suffering and pleasure.
It is I who reveals the true joy of a divine world action. A giant power in the waters of
extinction. Moving all, crying out for love and empathy, as the whale, sentient fish.
All the elements I balance on the border of the known and the unknown.
Hunt me, wound me, eat of my flesh, never shall I disappear, though to the borders of
extinction I allow myself to fade and so am I here, a mystery, vision form, to be witnessed
by, but not reduced for, the eyes of the understanding mind.
Struggle not, oh mind, simply surrender me, to your heart, the heart, there we will laugh
in wisdom.


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Sphinx Story
[Currently] I am in a completely normal state, quiet, peace[ful], and happy. I just
invoked the Mother, the Mothers help, and requested her to express herself through me.
Sadhana
During the first few months [of beginning Integral Yoga], I had such an intensity
of concentration that I was living in a lot of peace. I acquired a totally different
personality, what they call the inner being, which is always calm, peaceful, quiet, which
can never be disturbed. So this would be my starting point with Sri Aurobindo and the
Mother. Mother says that, I am in your heart. You can find me in your heart (not the
physical heart, but the deep down in the solar plexus). So, I wanted to find that, I wanted
to live within in the right consciousness, in the Mothers consciousness. So I concentrated
from morning to evening. <Laughter> I concentrated to go deep into the heart, [to focus]
on Mother, deep within, on the presence of the Mother. Because I found that I needed a
personal intimacy and answers to all my questions about life, which I could not find
anywhere. I was just 20 at that time and utterly frustrated. [So you poured a lot of those
emotions and feelings into, it sounds like a meditation of sorts, where you would focus on
your heart and the Mother coming into your heart?] Yes, yes. And that made my mind
completely quiet. Not only my mind, but my whole being, my entire being was
completely calm, peaceful, and this continued for weeks and weeks and weeks. That was
the turning point. But I must say that those initial intensities subsided after a couple of
months. Then I became more active, and [I got] involved in some work. I could not
manage that level of concentration.


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To tell you the truth, several times I gave up the yoga. And it was only some
unusual experiences that brought me back. Sometimes I wonder that my fate and my
interest in yoga and in serving Sri Aurobindo and Mother would not have been as firm
had there not been some unusual experiences. Because those experiences convey [to] you
that [the] Divine sees possibilities in you even when you dont see them in you. They also
convince you of the living power of truth behind the teaching. [A confirmation of sorts,
and an affirmation.] Yes.
Current Practices
Now almost three decades have passed, [and] I would like to retain, I would like
to recover those levels of experience and concentration. But I have my work. And I am
trying to use the work as a means of realization. And this is very, very difficult. Because
when you work, and when you have the right kind of will, the right kind of spirit, then it
becomes the means for progress in yoga. But if you dont have that kind of will, right
kind of will, right kind of spirit, then you just are carried away by the work and you get
involved in so many external realities. When you work, you throw yourself in human
nature. And you lose your inner intensity; you forget your concentration, your goal. Not
your goal, but you could not manage the same level of intensity as when you concentrate,
when you exercise something inwardly.
So right now I am trying to combine both, the concentration, inward
concentration, and external work. Because [with] the work, I feel a lot of responsibility
on my shoulders, [that] I could do something significant and I cannot give up this work.




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Exercises
In the beginning when I was a novice in [Integral Yoga, the] man who introduced
me to Sri Aurobindo told me a story: That there was a man who wanted to realize his self,
his true self. So from morning to evening he did only two things. He would do physical
exercises, warm up exercise and then he would concentrate or meditate. He did nothing
but these things. I have [an] inclination for that kind of lifestyleto do nothing but
meditate, concentrate, and then to do exercise. But I cannot do that because I feel a lot of
responsibility to carry on the work that I have undertaken. So I am trying to do three
things. I concentrate, I do exercise, and then I work. So now I work nearly 6-8 hours,
sometimes 9 hours. And then I do exercise, then I do concentration, exercise imagination.
[I do] nearly 3 to 4 hours [a day] of physical exercises, which I combine with
imagination. And that helps me very much. It helps not being carried away by external
things or lower mind and nature.
I combine images with physical movement. Physical movement is, for example,
Hatha Yoga asanas. So you identify various body postures with a particular image. And if
you concentrate for 4 or 5 minutes on that particular image, sooner or later it may settle
in[to] your consciousness.
For example, there is a particular asana, which I dont know what it is called, but
it gives me the image of a sphinx. So with this particular body posture, the image of the
sphinx, I concentrate for 4 minutes on the visual image of this sphinx looking towards the
new world ruled by psychic qualitiesa new supramental world, Mothers continent, the
psychic being, the new world, universal, vast, full of light and peace, calm, Mothers
presence. So I look through the sphinx image [and I see] myself, and the world going


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toward that inevitable future. After all, through all the struggle, all the humans in the
world, everything is going towards the new world, the new continent. And that helps me
to concentrate very much.
I have something like 10 or 15 kinds of imaginations connected with body
postures (asanas). One is a sphinx. Another is a boat, a ship. So in that particular asana, I
imagine that a boat is going towards the new continent, just as Columbus who was
determined to reach the new world. In the same way I imagine with my body, I make my
body into the shape of a boat, its a particular asana. And then continuously for 4 minutes
I imagine that I am in the ocean and I am going towards the new world. Through my
daily work, through my sleep, through my eating, through all the experiences of life,
through all the people in my world, physically, inwardly, I am a boat sailing towards the
new world, which is within me, the Mothers continent, that kind of image.
So, I spend 90 minutes daily in this kind of exercise of imagination. And, if
practiced persistently, this helps the mind to become pure, free from all disturbances, free
from ordinary mentality, from attachments, and from the movements of the lower vital.
And if I do these imagination exercises regularly, they establish [themselves] strongly in
the consciousness. And then I have noticed that to work in right spirit and will becomes
possible at times. But otherwise it is very, very difficult to work in the right spirit.
[Another sadhana practice involves] autosuggestion, self-suggestion. Here, you
tell yourself what you want to become. So I remind myself that my goal is to become a
completely transformed human being, like a blank page lifted up to the Supreme. I want
to become a tool in the hands of the Divine, a flute in the hands of the Divine child,
because Integral Yoga leads to complete surrender to the Supreme.


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I have come across so many texts where we know what the Mother wanted to
become; in one of her Prayers and Meditations, texts she [writes] that she wanted to
become a blank page before the Supreme. In another [part], she said she wanted to
become a being of pure love, complete love, from the top of [her] being to the very cells
of the body. She wanted to become a being of love for the Divine. And in Indian
terminology, I do not relate very much to Indian terminology, but Sri Aurobindo has
given the name Radha, which is a being of total love for the Divine, not human love but
the Divine love. I do not relate very much to the religious thing, but I imagine that I am
growing that personality of total love, or that I am a flute, a flute in the hands of the
Divine. There is an aphorism of Sri Aurobindos that says that he is not a gnani (jnani), a
man of knowledge. He is not a man of devotion, he is not a bhakta. Hes just a tool in the
hands of his master, a flute in the hands of the Divine, a leaf driven by the breath of the
God. So while breathing in, I imagine at the time becoming a tool, a flute, a leaf driven
by the breath of the God, a blank page, a child, a torch, a torch in the hands of the
Supreme Mother, or a sea of sincerity. There is a line in Savitri, that says, Her mind, a
sea of white sincerity. So I imagine all these images. Each time when I breathe in, I
think that I am taking in a capacity to become all these things. And then I breathe out and
imagine that Im giving up ego, desires, and imperfections.
So I have divided my time into four partsthree, six, seven, eight. Seven hours
for sleep, 8 hours for work, 6 hours for exercises, and 3 was lunch, dinner, breakfast,
bath, rest, going to office and all that. And this I find very balancing. If, because of work
or some other reason, if I [get] busy and do not practice those 6 hours, after some time I
find that my mind gets attached to a lot of other things, which is not desirable. So this is


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very much like what the Mother said, what Vivekananda said, to give a bath to your soul.
Every morning we take a bath. In the same way, you give a bath to your soul, to your
consciousness, to your mind. And that is very, very helpful. And I think every seeker
should give a bath to the mind and consciousness in order to keep pure in life and work
and, and the right spirit in work.
Experiences
Superhuman Power and The Mother
In 1979, I was [in a] business [that] was not succeeding. [It] was losing money
and I didnt know what to do, what the future [would be]. I am telling something [that I
do] not share with many people.
One evening I felt a strong calling from higher consciousness. I had to [stop]
work and retire [into] myself. I closed my office earlier [than usual] and I returned home.
All along the way I felt a lot of peace. There was a smile and sweetness everywhere.
There was some sort of a serenity all around. I reached home and went to sleep after
dinner. While in bed, I saw with my open eyes the Mother come towards me with a smile,
a very intimate smile. And I became a child, immediately I became a child, and I merged
in[to] the Mother. During the night, I woke up and found a superhuman power entering
into me, and it possessed me. [This superhuman force] was a being, it was a being from
the higher world.
Externally, [my] mind was quite active, thinking, Okay, now something is
happening in me, [and], A very, extraordinary thing is happening with me, that now a
superhuman power is entering in me, and now the world will know who I am. It was
basically the activity of surface arrogance of the mind, a lower mind. This superhuman


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power, which came into me, could not tolerate the least activity of mind and it would hit
on my head until all the mental activity became quiet and ceased. It would not tolerate the
slightest mental activity. Finally, a voice came from the bottom of [my] leg, Mother, I
will change, Mother, I will change. Only then the beating stopped. And this superhuman
power, which was nobody else but the Mother, walked into the room, bowed down at the
feet of a photo of Sri Aurobindo, came back and spoke in a mighty voice, My strength
built to reach the heaven. Mother spoke [this] sentence in her mighty voice, through my
voice! Then I, rather this being of the Mother, sat on the bed for sometime and then I
retired to sleep.
When I woke up next morning, I felt that my life was fulfilled. Because when you
turn to yoga, you expect certain things. But I never expected that such a superhuman
power the Mother herself would enter into me, possess me totally, and even speak
through my voice.
I would [not tell] this experience to other people [because they] would not
believe it. But that started a turning point. It brought me back; it convinced me that I have
spiritual potentiality. And again I started on the journey. So this is one of the very, very,
very [significant] turning points.
There is an aphorism of Sri Aurobindos that says that in whom the Kali can
descend, in whose system Kali can descend with her strength and might, then he answers,
that only [in] the man whom Krishna possesses. So, I can say that in whose system the
Mother, the Mother in her aspect of strength, can descend, and the obvious answer is
only [in] the man [whom] Sri Aurobindo possesses. Which means that my inner being
is something that Sri Aurobindo possesses. And the Mother, the Mother of Pondicherry


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Ashram, in her aspect of strength, descended in my inner being, in a very critical time [in
my life], when I had given up all interest in conscious spiritual progress. [She spoke in] a
mighty sentence, which anybody could hear. This was extraordinary, and I dont believe
that Mother has left me ever since. She is there, ever present in my inner being. The
promise, which my mind gave to her, that I will change, is still there after 25 years. But
my mind is not yet completely quiet. It does experience quiet and peace, but it is still, it
has still to keep the promise that it will change. <Laughter> It was a turning point. It
brought me back on the path.
Mantra
Part I: Stopped eating, speaking, working.
The second turning pointhad this experience not occurred, I dont know what I
would have done. I might have started to improve my economic condition, I might have
turned towards another business, I dont know what I would have done. But I dont think
that I would have turned again to the spiritual path in a very intense way had this
experience not happened. That profound experience eventually led to repeating the
mantra. Yes, one thing, which made a lot of impact after this experience, was the
repeating of mantra. I got completely into a new life pattern after this turning point.
I started experiment[ing]. First, I had this overwhelming sense that Mother
wanted to [resume her] transformation work through my body. <Laughter> I felt that she
found my body very appropriate for the continuation of what she was doing in her body.
So, I stopped eating, I took only fruit, I stopped speaking, I stopped working, I stopped
all activities, [and] I confined [myself] to my room for 4 months. I did nothing in order


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that I [could] give support to the Mother. But after 4 months I found myself in a chaotic
and confused state of mind.
Part 2: Began repeating mantra.
So I gave up all those four months of silence and started repeating mantra. And
that produced remarkable changes. I decided to repeat one mantra. I was dreaming of my
future plans of action in the world. And in order to make myself more fit for [my future]
work, I decided to repeat a mantra every afternoon for one hour. The mantra [I used] is a
message that Mother gave when India was in the Bangladesh war. At that time Mother
gave the message, Supreme Lord, Eternal Truth, let us obey thee alone and live
according to Truth.
So I decided to repeat this prayer, this mantra, daily. Then after 1 or 2 weeks, it
started to make a tremendous impact [on me]. I [started] to become bigger, bigger,
bigger. And when I finished, I became a totally different being, some sort of superman, I
would not call it a superman, I [would] call it a great uncle, <Laughter> which was
completely peaceful, completely free from ego. There was a tremendous stability. when I
would sit and repeat [this] mantra, I [would characterize my beginning] state as that of a
mouse, a normal human state with a normal human mind. And at the end of mantra, I
would become a lion. <Laughter> Vast, calm, completely free from mental activity.
Tremendous stability, my God, it was, it was a new being, a new human being, a
superman.
So this was very effective. And then I got more and more involved in repeating
the mantra. I would repeat it for a full day, I would repeat the mantra, Supreme Lord,
Eternal Truth And I felt that this is the best thing one can do in life. If you follow [this


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mantra] there is nothing [else] to do. This is the only purpose of life, the best, the
supreme joy of life, to repeat this mantra.
Part 3: Mantra of Sri Aurobindo.
One evening, I had been repeating this mantra for continuously 4 hours.
Suddenly, I felt a voice coming from my heart. And it spoke a different mantra, a
Sanskrit mantra, Om Sri Arvind Sharanm Mamh! Only one time it spoke with this
Sanskrit mantra. The next [thing I know] I woke up from my chair, from my sofa, and
suddenly I found myself [surrounded by] galaxies, galaxies in the sky whirling around
me.
So [to me] it meant that the mantra, Supreme Lord, came from Sri Aurobindo
through the Mother, that he was the originator of this mantra. That was my
understanding. [I also understood] that Sri Aurobindo has conquered the world, that hes
somebody universal, infinite, eternal, with the stars moving around him. So I found
myself there. And thats [how] I got the [this] mantra. Many teachings say that mantra
comes from within you, that you get mantra from within, from your heart. It says
something from your heart. So [the] English mantra came from the Mother, [but] this new
mantra came from my heart, Om, Sri Arvind Sharanam Mamh! So. I received this
mantra from within my heart, which also convinced me that my inner being, my soul, is
totally a part of Sri Aurobindo.
Selecting a Mantra
[While reading Sri Aurobindo,] I made a great discoverythat one needs to
develop willpower to progress in yoga. I realized that the most important thing in yoga is
willpower. The Mother says somewhere, without will, one is not even a human being, a


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jellyfish. I had not realized that before. [Without willpower] one ends up moving in a
circle. One does some service to the Divine, but one does not progress. So I used to
repeat various lines from Savitri, which are connected with willpower. [And] I started on
a journey of developing willpower by visualization. There is a whole passage [from] the
Mother [on] how to develop your will: That you do one thing and you insist that you will
do the same thing again and again and again. In that way you develop your willpower.
So I started practicing all that. And during the initial phase, I had a remarkable success. I
felt a strong presence of will power. But gradually it dwindled too.
Another experience: I went deep into analysis of human life in the world, all the
disciples and those who live in the Pondicherry Ashram people who turned towards
Aurobindo and Mother and do not progress in life, they remained stagnate. I thought
deeply [about] why people [did] not progress in yoga. They end up working but they do
not really change their consciousness, they do not really progress, they remain the same. I
came to the conclusion in my reflections that it is only when people get ablaze, fired up,
with the Divine Love that one can really progress.
This conclusion was like a great revelation. I immediately started repeating a line
from the Mothers Prayers and Meditations, Sweet Mother, Mother Divine, may we be
all ablaze with thy Divine Love. I felt that this is the only thing that can make progress
in yoga possible, not meditation and work and so many other things. That if you want to
progress in yoga instead of moving [a] circle, the only solution is get ablaze with the
Mothers love. There was such an intensity in that call, as if this is your last resort in the
ocean to swim and not sink, that after 2 or 3 hours, I found myself in a different world,


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which was full of Divine Love. All that was there was pure love; every atom was filled
with Divine Love. It was the Mothers Love. So that became my other mantra.
In that state, I even felt Mothers presence very close to me, closer than she could
be in front of me! So, this was the other mantra, a line from Mothers book, became my
mantra. And then when I realized the importance of will, I started to repeat lines on will
from Savitri. So [when I had all these four or five mantras], I had some sort of a sweet
struggle which ones to choose, because all were working <Laughter>. My final choice
was the Truth mantra, because where there is Truth, there is love. To be frank, I felt that
if I repeat the Truth mantra I would not disturb the Divine Love that was my feeling. It
was so easy for me at that time; I felt that it was completely easy for me to realize the
Divine at that time. But I felt also that I should not disturb the Divine Love, that I should
first realize the Truth, and that love and everything else is the result, the outcome of the
Truth. So I selected the Truth mantra.
Current Issues and Challenges
Discipline and self-control [are the most challenging part of my sadhana]. There
is a sentence from Sri Aurobindos letters to a disciple where he says that to realize the
possibility of your life, self-control and discipline are indispensable. It is [also] a question
of willpower. If you have willpower, if you have self-control and discipline, that opens
up strong possibilities. [But] that is difficult. Sometimes I feel that if I could work, if I
could do my exercises accurately without stop and at the same time work, that I could do
great things in the world and within my inner being, a victory of the Divine within and
without. So I try my best but sometimes it is difficult to develop that kind of willpower,
to follow regularly all the practices, to attend to the work. And sometimes work is too


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much. So I have come to the conclusion that to develop a very strong willpower is most
important.
There is one sentence of Sri Aurobindo that the Divine answers, not according to
the measure of the sadhana or the practice, but in the measure of your soul and its
aspiration. So even if you practice daily for years and years, you may not have a new
experience. [But] if your soul is ready, if your soul and spirit are ready you get an
experience without doing anything, or doing very little. That is the thing, that readiness of
the soul. That can explain so many experiences that happened to Sri Aurobindo and the
Mother. That when somebody told Sri Aurobindo to sit and watch his thoughts and
discard the thoughts, in 3 days he achieved the state of nirvana, complete peace, because
his soul or inner being was ready.
And there are people who do yoga for a long [time and] still [do] not get there
because their inner being is not ready. So Integral Yoga is basically not [done by] your
own [external] efforts, it is the inner being, the soul, how much it has evolved. And by
our practice, by our imagination, by our aspiration, you give support to your inner being.
The first time I [read] Savitri, [I opened to a page that contained the following
passage:] Our words become natural speech of Truth. Each thought is a ripple on a sea
of light. Today, after 30 years, I believe that is true, that Sri Aurobindo and the Mothers
vision of the future, their teachings, the path, the light they have brought to the world is
an natural speech of Truth and that each of their thoughts is a ripple on a sea of
light.


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Overall Story Ascent and Out-Of-Body Experiences
[Gopal]: Subtle Physical
There was one example, kind of like ascension. [I was talking to someone] in
Pondicherry [once]. She said she was leaving the next day. Later, in a vision, I saw the
ashram car driving down the highway. I was overhead, looking down and I assumed she
was in it. And in Pondicherry, all of a sudden I was in what I would call the subtle
physical. And I dont know how to explain this. Being above all that, just strolling down
the street with no effort or other feeling and no other people, feeling fantastic with the
energy and consciousness. Like there was no friction or gravity. Its difficult to explain
because it is so simple and natural and at the same time such a fantastic feeling. I was just
feeling like me, no difference. [I was] just walking, but in another dimension. Blissful.
[1119]: Out of Body (OOB)
I had the experience of going out of my body in a relaxation massage workshop. I
began to really relax really deeply for the first time, because I had been pretty repressed
in my life up to that point. After several hours of giving and receiving massages, pretty
soon the body is starting to let go more and more. So what happened to me was I started
to sob and I started to convulse, and then I started to breathe deeply, but I was breathing
so deeply that I thought I was going to crack open all my ribs. I started to convulse and
turned the whole mattress over and of course disrupted the whole session. When it got too
violent I left my body and I went up on the ceiling. So then Im looking down on my
body, and Im in tune with everybodys thoughts; I knew what everybody was thinking.
There were people who wanted to do the same thing, and there were people who thought,
Whats going to happen to this guy? I mean, I knew everything. And at a certain point,


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I just went back down into my body. But that experience gave me the sense that were not
our bodies. And I had the clear experience that I can be outside, I can know everything,
and without a body. To really know that physically makes a huge difference, it changed
me.
[Running Water]: Ascent
To clarify, theres a difference [between] ascending through planes and an
ascension like [a floating sensation when I run]. Going through different planes of
consciousness and being aware of those, that I dont experience so much of, if at all.
Things tend to be right here. But, when Im here, Im always laughing about this sense of,
when I spoke about the running, about those lamas who have this practice that they dont
touch the earth, they run, they float, as a specific practice. Some program has tried to
scientifically film that and they werent successful, but, I jokingly believe that some day
Im going to run a marathon and never touch a foot on the ground, because of that
experience and similar experiences when Im running or even when Im sitting talking to
you or when I'm in these, types of exchange, I almost feel like Im floating. Theres a
lightness, life becomes light in so many ways, its a lightness, in that sense, yes.
Ascension: Leaving Body and Floating
One time I was playfully [experimenting] with asanas, postures, partly to work
with pain patients, partly just exploring. I studied a lot of Egyptian stuff when I was
younger. So I placed myself on the floor and spontaneously decided that if I placed
myself on the floor in a particular position like a ladybug that I would be a scarab, the
scarab was really an asana. I put myself on the floor and did it; I hadnt read anything
about it, I just did it. And I left my body immediately, just flew. In coming out, I said,


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Well thats the answer, its an asana, [designed] to secure the body [before] the leaving
the bodyflights into other worlds. Because, the spirit can actually literally leave the
body and [then] youre in a dangerous position. The teachers talk about, you know, what
can happen and it can be dangerous and you need to make sure youre protected. Thats
why they did certain rituals and different things. So that happened in that position and I
did feel that, leaving the body and floating and go right up.
Another time, my [brother] had been making fun of me, and I happened to be
staying in the house that that person was living in. It was one of my brothers and it was
my mothers house. And I went to bed that evening, and there was a part of me that was
shaking my head at my brother and saying, If he only really knew the reality of my
practices and what things, and he was joking about it, Oh, you know, woo, woo,
wicked, spiritual. Interestingly enough, something wanted to teach him a lesson that
evening. I left my body and there was screaming heard in the house. It was my younger
brother jumping up out of his bed and running around the room because evidently he saw
me floating and flying around the room. He woke everyone. There were three other
people in the house, and two of them saw the entity. I heard all the yelling, and I was
lying in bed and couldnt move. I wanted to get up to help, but something in me was, had
some awareness, but I couldnt move, and then something happened. I felt this sort of,
energy, and I felt stiff, but I started moving and I got up and I opened the door and
everyone was in the hallway and they were staring at me. There was a dual
consciousness, which is very surprising. Ive read more about that recently, though.




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[Pancho]: Ascents
I can follow it mostly to the top, I cant always follow it above the head. It gets, it
seems to get lost. But aspiration I think naturally takes you there. Youre centered here,
you do it for awhile. Sometimes I just try to aspire and not much happens. Obviously, it
doesnt always work. But when its really working, it does start to ascend. Itll be up here
[up in my forehead]. And it will be at the top of the head and then above, and it might
even bring on a descent, I mean they work together. But you do feel, yeah, there
definitely is an ascent. Because I think that fire, that agni fire state of being of the
Supreme, the Divine will, the brilliance in force, whatever you call it, it tends upward,
just like earthly fire only goes up. And so when you allow that fire, or you stoke it, or it
just happens, then an ascent naturally happens.
[Rishi]: Ascending
The word [ascending] is something that I dont feel comfortable using. I think
what Sri Aurobindo meant by ascending is probably you move your consciousness from
your brain, from the mind to something higher. I believe that is probably what he meant.
And I have felt, thinking or looking at things from above as an observer, and trying to put
things in the perspective, not just as an observer, but also being able to understand what is
there. Like something that is very dynamic it can bring about a change in your behavior
and can suggest dynamic solution. It is like someone really smart is up there and looking
at things below and gives you a real smart solution. Literally, I feel as if I am up on the
12th floor and looking at a bunch of people down there, including myself as I am up
there, and I can see everyones heads from the top, and I see what is going on. It just
happens.


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I think about this word ascending, I think about that word. Ascending somehow to
my mind means like you going up there, your body is going up or something. Which does
not sound right. I mean, I do feel I can see from up [above], I do see that, but it wasnt
like there was a time that I kept on going up, up, up, up and then I stopped. And then I
guess my focus has always been down, the world, the life. I never wanted to leave
everything and go up. I never had a desire to do that. I always wanted some proper
solution from my real life problems, some real solutions.
[Janaka]: Ascent: Kundalini
Its interesting because I had read about the kundalini experience, both in Sri
Aurobindo and other literature, and it seemed to me like that was the key experience, that
was the one [that] proved that you were on the spiritual path, that you were making
progress. Because one of the biggest struggles is just that feeling of, Am I making any
progress? Ive been doing this and doing this, and, you know, is it getting me anywhere?
So one of things people look for is seeing visions.
Another thing people look for is having kundalini experience. So it was
something I really wanted, something I really thought would be great and it would really
transform me. Id done all my reading on it. I also included it in my aspiration, because
aspiration can be connected to fire with agni and the Vedic prayers and fire. And so I
would try to [picture the] image [of] the fire in the root chakra during my meditations.
And for a long time nothing doing. And then, over the years, I would start to get a little
experience here or there. I would feel a little bit of heat or I would get almost a finger of
fire, very slender, coming up but it wouldnt necessarily rise all the way through to the
top, to the crown chakra. It would just go a certain distance and then just stop, and it


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would be there for a while. I would feel a warmth, almost a burning, a rising from below,
coming from the root chakra, through the abdomen, really behind the abdomen, and
usually stopping around the second or third chakra, the solar plexus.
And of course I thought there was something wrong with me. I wasnt able to
experience the full, you know, the full experience of it. But after having several of those,
there did come a time when Id been having some fairly strong descents, which again, Sri
Aurobindo says, its better to be open to the descending force first to help purify the
being and then that opens that way for the kundalini to rise naturally. It doesnt have to
force its way.
And so at one point, I just felt this opening and a widening, it was as if I was
sitting on a pillow that had all of a sudden gotten to be five feet wide, and that pillow was
of course my root chakra, it was me, where I was sitting. And then that gradually began
to rise up through me, began filling me with a very fiery energy that slowly rose through
me. It wasnt a rushing at all, it was very gentle, but it felt like a fire, and I pictured it
purifying me. I was willing to let it purify me; I was offering myself to it. And, again, it
rose in stages. So first it rose to the solar plexus, and then it ascended from there probably
through the heart I believe to about the throat and then stayed there for a little bit, or
maybe it was below the throatit was the heart center, but it filled the chest cavity
entirely. It stayed there for a bit, and then it continued to rise and I dont remember the
details but I do know it rose up until I was entirely within it; my body was entirely within
this fire. It was surrounding me, this wide, five-foot wide thing was rising in a shaft, both
filling me and surrounding me. It finally got above my head and then I lost track of it. Sri
Aurobindo writes about it opening all the centers as it goes, and I dont [know] about


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that. I felt that there had already been some purification up to that point, or I wouldnt
have been able to experience it. I guess they got wider after that, but there was nothing
dramatic. And then after a time, maybe 20 minutes afterward, maybe a little longer, it just
began to subside. Its not like it went back down again, just sort of evaporated slowly,
very slowly.
[Annie Dutts]: Ascents
There are ascents too, and thats one of my typical practices. Sri Aurobindo says
one way that you can go into the spiritual consciousness is you go up above your head.
And so you just go up and it widens out and it feels, theres different ways, you can feel
like the lid is taken up off the top of your head. Or you just feel like you go up about a
foot above your head and then everything gets wider and wider and wider. It feels like
you can see for hundreds or thousands of miles, it just opens, and I think when you look
at the different, like the mind, the higher mind, the illumined mind, the intuition, the
overmind, I think its maybe, you know, its very dangerous. What do I know? I know
nothing. Im not a master. But, its not thought. Theres no thought there and theres no
concepts there so I think that its probably not higher mind because theres no formations.
I think its maybe up there, above that. Its just light and wideness and revelation and truth
with no form.
[Cathleen Carmichel]: Ascent
I would have experiences of ascent where I would very specifically feel an
ascending energy. I think probably in the old yoga school, it would be a Kundalini-kind
of energy, because it does come from below. It definitely, I mean I did have that
experience of it coming from below, as if it was taking away a layer of reality so that the


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way things seemthe external ho-hum, day-to-day lifesuddenly was torn away, and all
that was there was just this sort of blissful experience. And that went on probably for
about two or three weeks of that kind of experience. I was in the ashram and there wasnt
a lot that I had to do. My life was very organized around this is where you stay, heres the
library, heres the dining hall. I was lucky in that sense. And it just seemed that the day-
to-day life was no longer what it seemed, there was a lot more behind it. It was as if a veil
had been moved away.




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Overall Story Descent
[Gopal]
I had descension with a force, a consciousness. There were times in India I was
electrified so much I couldnt sleep all night. I was awake all night just vibrating.
[Running Water]
Im experiencing a sort of pressure between my eyes, brows, right here, and in my
chest, and sort of a pressure, what Ive come to describe as a, it almost feels like a
pressure, but its a widening in the skull. Its as though my brain wants to think and the
rigidity is causing a resistance. And theres a part of me that is wider, that is a higher part
of the mind that Im opening to but the resistance is the feeling of the pressure. When
thats there, I know that Im actually moving to a higher place in the mind. Its almost as
though Im feeling, people describe it as a feeling the energy coming down or through,
but it simply feels the way I was describing it. That Ive widened but since I cant let go
of my body and be here at the same time, it feels, the body is feeling the pressure and Im
entering into those states. What changes is I become less focused on it and it becomes
more blissful, the energy is a blissful energy. I begin to become clearer when Im
speaking. The activity almost is the, motivation to bring its force forward, and it
permeates more and the resistance dissipates but the energy is still there. I can feel the
energy, but I dont pay attention to it as much. I just let it take over and activate me. Its
something that seems to be a theme of how this personality works with things. When
there is a purpose and Ive made the attempt to center, its there. It dissipates or breaks up
its contact when Im abruptly interrupted or when Im off course with my purpose or the
purpose ends. It seems consistent when its there. Its not usually there during everyday


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circumstances except for when Im gardening. And I take it that thats because that takes
me to a place where Im distracted into what I consider lower or disorganized or
disharmonious.
[1119]: Aspiration Descent
[Have you had other experiences where you have felt the descent or sense of
descent or had the sense of something other than the answer to a question?] Yes, it
doesnt work that way with me, its not a question. The aspiration is not a question. And
what comes is not an answer. Its not in such a framework. Its more that an opening is
filled; its a fullness, and a completeness, a sense of completeness and fullness. [And that
sense of fullness, where do you experience it?] Physically, I experience it; I can hear it
like a hum in the ears. I can hear that sound. I can step into that zone, were in it now, so
you can feel the presences; you can feel that were outside of time and space. Then what
happens in terms of the words or the emotions are more or less irrelevant, and then it gets
to the stage where, and you know this from meditation, where there is only the silence,
but the silence is, has that quality of fullness or completion. It is complete, and so is it,
Where do we go from here? There doesnt even need to be that question, because we
are there. [So I guess if I asked you about if youve experienced the sensation of
ascending, thats still a structure in the linear type of thing.] Yeah.
[Pancho]: Descents of Energy
One of the things for years that I had been feeling [were] these descents of
energy from above. It was really pronounced sometimes. It never was totally strong, it
has never been a torrent that just stayed, some day maybe. Energy, like higher energy,
different kinds coming down through the top of the head and into, mostly feeling it into


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the head, but it goes into the rest of the body. And sometimes it feels like light and
sometimes it feels like strength, sometimes like joy, sometimes peaceful.
Sometimes I would read [The Life Divine], just read it intellectually to understand
it, but I would feel descents. Like I would have read that he was experiencing unending
descents in that period between 1914 and 1921 when he was writing all those books. And
they were more from what you would call the overhead planes than directly from the
supramental, but they were pretty strong descents, and I was feeling them from reading
the book.
I would do more than just feel, I mean, I was understanding it, too. And every
time I read I understand more. There are all different levels of understanding, but one of
the ways I understood [it] was these descents would come down and open up the lower
understanding too. Its actually in The Synthesis of Yoga, he kind of talks about a
sequence, descents of light and force and energy. First, is calm and peace and equanimity,
because thats the beginning of everything in this yoga. It helps if it does; it doesnt
always. There is no rule, but that is logically the first thing. And then there is light and
force, light is next and then force; although he doesnt always say it in the same [way].
And then there is ananda, theres those four.
[Janaka]: Descent in Groups of People
Ive described the descent experience, the spiritual waterfall, like in Yosemite
Park, like the firefall. <Laughter> Thats occurred on a few other occasions, and
interestingly, its been in group sessions.
The first time, well, I should say the next time after that first experience that
occurred, was in the early 1990s. I had been asked to join the board of [one of Integral


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Yoga associations] and we [were able to finally meet together.]. Five of us were talking
about [the day]things that we had seen, how we were feeling about it. And I felt this
energy beginning to, almost bodily, come and seize us. And we felt less and less like
talking and more of this silence, just a massive silence pervading the room. We slowly
stopped speaking kind of by mutual consent also because we just couldnt talk. We just
started sitting in silence and before we knew it (and later, just sort of checking in with
everybody, everybody was feeling the same thing) this massive descent, this influx of
shakti, of Consciousness-Force (Sri Aurobindo calls it Consciousness-Force). [It was
definitely an energy and it was] powerful, powerful; it was the power of silence, it was
energy<Sigh>.
Theres, there just arent really words to describe it, Ill do the best I can. It was as
if it filled up all of the space in the room. There was no other space left. It was as if it
took your breath away. It was almost like you, you lost interest in breathing; it felt like
you were holding your breath even though you werent. So, I felt it very powerfully in the
area of the heart and the solar plexus, I should say especially in the heart and the solar
plexus but really everywhere, everywhere. And even in places I didnt know I had. It
made me aware of the space above my head and the roots going down into the earth, and
the space around me felt like it was filled with fire, the fire was everywhere. [It just
enveloped me outside the physical boundaries.] It expanded several feet beyond my body,
and above my head and below my feet. And like I say, it was literally a palpable silence
that you could touch, you could feel it; you could almost knead it in your hands if you
were so inclined. It felt more like the air had almost gelled, so that really nothing could
move in it. And I know I'm using different metaphors and images that in the ordinary


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world arent compatible, because theyre trying all to reach the same experience from a
different direction. And when I would read about experiences or descriptions like that, I
found that I had to sort of let my mind, set my mind aside, and, and not try to bring
physical images to bear, just let them kind of wash over me. Because the physical
descriptors are really symbolic, not really meant to be physical as such, not concrete
anyway. So thats just an aside to, to explain why fire and water, air turned into jelly, you
know, they're all trying to approach the same experience, theyre not separate things. And
so that was the second time. And that had to go on for a good 45 minutes, feeling almost
powerless before this massive descent of Consciousness-Force. And when it subsided we
all knew, we started moving around again. <Laughter> We said, What was that?
<Laughter>
And then I experienced that same experience in a hotel [at a] conference on
religion. It was my last day there, and we had organized an open house. A handful of
people came, three or four, and were sitting there quietly, talking on couches like we are
now, when again, this experience of descent just took over. And when it comes its like
there is no denying it. I mean, its like if you wanted, if you could even imagine going
against it and trying to reject it, you would be swimming up from a mine shaft, you know,
through dense water, but who would want to? And so almost mid-sentence we stopped
speaking and sat there again for over half an hour while, this power and light and fire
washed over us. And then it receded and, like the tide going out and we were able to talk
again, and we went Whoa, what was that? <Laughter> Im pretty sure that the others in
the room had some sense of what was going on. Anyone who has had a powerful
experience of meeting the Mother in person, while she was still in the body, will give a


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very similar expression of just, almost their mind being taken away, just being in this
completely other space, yeah, so we just thought of it as Mother.
And interestingly enough, both with the Kundalini and with the descent of the
Shakti, one common experience Ive had, almost universally, has been ringing in [both
of] my ears.
[Annie Dutts]: Descents
The first experiences that I had, I guess, were descents of light and bliss. It would
be these showers of light and bliss splashing down on my forehead and you could just
feel them here it would just go pachoo! And oh, it is just gorgeous. That is very constant
and very easy to have. And the second one is ananda, I think thats my basic experience,
of being just ravished by bliss, these descents of bliss.
[There were no visual sensation] no visuals. Ive had several were Sri Aurobindo
was present, or that it was the Divine or the Divine Mother. And its just extraordinary
ecstasy and love and happiness and joy and everything is beautiful. You start to tremble
because it is so powerful.
And then sometimes it comes with power, thats another thing, shakti, descent of
the force. That feels like power just like crashing, massive descent of crushing force and
your body just starts shaking. When it first happens your muscles tense up, this is the
rigidity that the yogis used to talk about, but you learn not to do that after a while because
your body learns to adapt to it. Or you might twitch. The people who are unripened, they
thrash around, but if you know you can widen yourself up.
Its like basically riding on a tornado or an earthquake. Youre just shaking. Its
just crushing and it can be hard to bear, like super adrenaline, but its lots of fun. It comes


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down at different points. Ive had it come all the way down to the muladhara [1
st
chakra]
and down to the feet. So theres power that comes down, bliss that comes down, love, and
theres light. And the light is more like a widening.
Talk about descent of force, once I was seeing Sri Aurobindo and the descent of
force was so strong and the devotion was so strong that it knocked me to the floor. That
is what they call a kriya. It flattened me. And I tried to get up and it would keep pushing
me down to the floor. My head was on the floor. So that was interesting. That was only
once that I had that experience.
[Lizzie]
The light, when it descends into me, its there sort of as my core. And itll go
down, but instead of individual chakras, its a whole column of light [coming] through
the center [of my body, the way the chakras are aligned]. Its just there and then when I
start doing other things I dont notice it anymore and it probably recedes. I wouldnt say
thats happened often.
[Cathleen Carmichel]: Descent
As far as descent, I think the most, most prolonged experience that Ive had of
that is where Ive had this, this chakra right here, the third eye chakra, just pulsating. It
went [on] for months. I mean it was to the point where I was like, Well, I guess Ill have
that for the rest of my life, but I didnt, [but it] would come and go for long periods of
time. I never thought there was anything to do about it, its not like in and of itself what
does it mean?




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[Rose]: Descent
I feel descending sometimes into my body and I sometimes feel a power
descending into my body. Of course, Im focusing on it too, but I do feel a power too
then descending, yeah, yeah. It comes through my crown. Theres a lot of energy, some
days it more and some it is less. Sometimes I touch my crown chakra because its there
for longer times. I feel it coming in sometimes in meditation, coming into the body. And
it feels like its just filling out the body and then my body feels more harmonious
afterwards, like its rearranging, very subtle rearranging, thats what I sometimes feel. It
fades. Sometimes I meditate in the evening and then go to bed. Of course in the morning
its all different. [And it feels the same way every time coming] into the body. Its always
has the same feeling of the energy of the body [and the sensation coming through.]
And then I wonder sometimes, during running especially, when I get the longer
runs, after your mind gives up control and settles down with Okay, then we are
running, it kind of, I dont know if you feel elevated or if a higher power is carrying you
for a while. Because if you feel elevated, it would be an ascension, but if a higher power
is coming down into your body, then its a descension, so Im [wondering if it can both,
that both can coexist at the same time].
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Overall Story Experience of Nonlight Forces
[Akroyd]: Dark Experience in India / Most Important ExperienceReceiving Mantra
I started at [one] point to meditate because [I was] doing all this physical activity
with the dancing. And I was meditating and I had this really dark experience where there
were people doing black magic against me, which is not very uncommon actually. This
happened to several other Westerners I knew studying at different locations in this state
[in India], two of them died due this occult abuse. Xenophobia [among certain factions in
the town], essentially, is what it was coming from. And it would manifest in terrible,
terrible, dreams. The most scary dreams I [have] ever had. I would have a terrible
nightmare, and then wake up and then would not be able to go back to sleep.
The one nightmare I remember was that a big blue head floated down from the
staircase in my house, with these sort of ribbons against it, hanging from it, and people
[were] chanting, Were going to kill you, were going to kill you. And so I was really
in a very stressed situation, completely desperate. And then [at] a certain point I had a
dream, and I saw this Burmese Buddhist monk that I [personally] knew and I had a nice
connection to him. And he said if I wanted to unravel the snake" then I should use this
specific mantra. And thats where I got this mantra I have that Ive been using ever since.
There was a big rock with a carving of a snake on it. Immediately I took the mantra [I
believe he told me the mantra, unless I saw it written on the rock], and I started to say it,
and I woke up for a second and then thats where I made the external connection to it.
And then I went back to sleep and I saw myself doing pranam to Krishna, a particular
type statue of Krishna, in its plainest form. This form is known as Natwaj, his temple is in
Rajestan and he is the patron of a powerful royal family. I was dressed as a warrior doing
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pranam to it. I know offhand two other people, one who I went school with from the
ashram, who received their mantras in a dream.
Shortly after that I had another of these nightmares, maybe some days later maybe
later that evening, and I did a dance pose, a dance pranam, and I said the mantra. And that
was it that was that broke that. [It broke that curse] I [had been] desperate, at my wits
end, and then a movement of pure grace and blessing [occurred]. This was one of the
most important experiences in my life. And it was weird; it broke that connection with
that negativity. And [this mantra has] been the key to my sadhana ever since.
When I had that experience when I found the mantra, I was 23 at that time, so it
was an early experience. I think after that I was so desperate; I was so haunted by these
really nasty, nasty things that were disturbing my mind. And I would wake up, just totally
flipped out, and couldnt go back to sleep, and so I was also suffering from sleep
deprivation. This was at the same time [that] I was doing intensely physically grueling
dance training and it was very unpleasant. But after that there was this feeling that it was
stronger, my faith, as I was completely desperate and I needed a solution, the solution.
When you [go] through anything [like this] eventually somehow youll break through it. I
think its a sign of progress; [that] the inner being starts to take more of a focus than the
outer being.
[In] The Agenda there was discussions about people doing that on the Mother, so I
was aware of that. And there [were] external politics between the Muslim league and the
Hindu right wing, both in competition to see who could be more asuric (anti-Divine) in
this town I was living in [India]. There is a long terrible history of Muslim domination of
the indigenous culture in India, and many sacred places were trashed and destroyed.
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Buddhism was driven out of India for centuries. But some Hindus can stand up to the
plate equally as evil. Also [the state] is known as a center for black magic. [It] is a center
for great things as well. There was a [Hindu] temple in the town and the priests were fine
with me going in there, but the Hindu right wing people were objecting to a foreigner
going into their sacred spacea certain faction, not the whole town, it was loud political
group.
[It] was a very big temple, and on one side of the temple there was the gate of the
temple and [this radical group] would practice in [in that area]. It was a sort of hilly area
because it was an old town. There was a high wall and maybe about 20-25 feet above it
and there was a house to rent. So I needed a place to stay as I was studying dance in that
place. And my friends said, Theres a house for rent, go take a look at it. So, I went and
looked at the house, and then I went back and was staying at the school, which was in
another big house that was nearby there. It was hot [and] I had decided that I wanted to
sleep out on the porch that night. The school was in an old aristocrats mansion. And that
gate was open. So I had dreamt that I had gone, I had wandered into this sort of demons
lair, and he [looked like the cook at the school]. I knew it wasnt the cookit looked just
like the cook at the school. He had this sort of gnome-ish look about him and he had a big
machete. It was a very threatening situation and I woke up and was very disturbed
because the qualities of these dreams were much more powerful than a normal nightmare.
It was much more turned up [in] volume, much stronger.
So, I woke up and was very disturbed and I saw this receding light, a reflected
light on the door. And my intuitive impression was at that someone had been there, did
something, and that would set up the whole series of being attacked sort of thing. I didnt
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go to anybody about it, it didnt occur to me. I just knew. Also, I mean, [this state and I
another one I spent time in and experienced it there] is known for black magic, so I knew
about it. It was just at a level that was more intense. My first feeling was I dont want to
move into that house [near the temple] and I didnt move into that house. I found out
afterwards that the house was broken into just after I had seen it.
I guess that [experience] was when you see the light behind the darkness. The
desperation drove me into a condition where I had to find a solution. But that is my
spiritual destiny. Because I think if there wasnt obviously this external negative force
making a desperate situation that I found this, because the mantra is so important to me, it
is a key device, it is the vibrational gift for my sadhana. The other thing about it is that I
think there was a spell cast on me or someone did something and I was feeling the result
of it. But I dont think that they were perpetuating it. They might have set something in
motion, because after a while they werent perpetuating it. Because I ended up being 2
years in that town [and] I think the xenophobes were less threatened by me. And, so [the
mantra] definitely protected me.
Dream Confirming His Sense That Chaotic Forces Were Trying to Dislodge Integral
Yoga Globally and That it Wouldnt Affect Him

Around 83, 84, so probably around the time when I got the mantra, a little later
than that, I was about to go to [Pondicherry] and I had this dream that this big sort of
mammoth, it was more of a cow, that this primeval, gray, huge thing, like a giant yak sort
of thing, was rushing towards me. And it would rush towards me and I would step aside
and it would pass me, and it rushed at me again, and I stepped aside a second time and it
would pass, it rushed past me again a third time, and then it stopped And it stood on its
hind legs and it pulled off its head and there was a man underneath it, sort of a shaman.
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So I saw that as a representative of the forces trying to dislodge the yoga on a world
scale, not just personally towards me, just everyone. And then I was reassured [because] I
wasnt pushed, that I wasnt affected by it. It didnt push me from the course of things.
[Gopal]: Negative Forces
There was something that seemed kind of significant to me that started to happen,
I might say in a negative way, in a way of attacks. When I got out of my own personal
practice and started to expand, reading books and going to the center and giving
conferences I started to have accidents. There were at least three times it happened. [One
of those was related to a spiritual teacher. A friend told] me about this woman, and how
she got introduced to Sri Aurobindo and he still had communication with her and I
thought I wanted to meet her. She was very occult, very controlling. She had a practice
where you lie on the floor and one of her people presses near your navel. They press
pretty hard and then this other person talks to you and asks you what s going on. This
went on for about 4 hours and pretty soon you are going here and there, its like through a
vortex, like birth and death that I could experience, but some other experiences were
blocked. She would say, Youre blocking, and I was. The interesting thing was in this
room while this was going on, the energy, the consciousness was so strong that it was a
protection for me. [Because] when I would walk into the hallway it was like night and
day, from my room going out to the hallway. It was like being at [the ashram] Samadhi in
my room and coming out it was ordinary. Anyway, it was an experience for me and in
one of the sessions down in her room she said, When are you going to surrender to me?
She said, The Mothers consciousness and mine are the same. Well, when she said that
it put me off completely. I figured she was wacko. I saw her at a conference and [one of
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her young wards] was there, playing outside my room, and then I tripped and fell. It
wasnt anything the child did that was really so overt. It was just this thing, part of the
falling and attacking thing that had been going on. What I got out of that was just because
you feel good doesnt mean it is a positive thing. I was manipulated by [her].
[Running Water]: Fighting Dark Forces in Conscious Dreams
For a long time when [the nervous system overloads] were getting worse, I was
even afraid to go to sleep. For 4 or 5 years, I didnt sleep, seemingly, and then it became
apparent to me that I was actually become conscious in sleep. The irony of the Mother,
what we think is the worst in the world and what we think is just the problem, is actually
the door. And what she had done in this fear, in this tension and this stress, was awake
me to myself in an unconscious state, so that now for the last 5 years Ive been
consciously dreaming throughout most of the night. Unfortunately one of the difficulties
as it originated is that I was going down into the realms that were the darkest, and this is
where my battle was. So in some sense, I would say, Ive come to say, Well this is what
shes brought me here for. She brought me here to battle and to embrace the transforming
of the lower emotional, particularly, and physical worlds of myself. My physical being
and my emotional, lower emotional being, nervous system is an interchange between
them, a communication between them.
And in numerous incidents while sleeping Ive entered into what would be called
these realms, these darker realms, and encountered many beings and forces. I think Ive
encountered asuras and I think Ive encountered this because Ive been forced to take on
this approach and this work, nothing that I knew about choosing, it just was there, I was
led there. And what was happening as things got worse for me, is that it became,
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interestingly it [was during] the hours between 3:00 and 4:30 in the morning, almost 10
times a month [that] I was having severe [overloads]. I would actually in the midst of
these [overloads] sometimes get up and leave, after the worse convulsive part, [and
sometimes] I would get up and leave my bed.
As I became more conscious [I realized that] I was actually roaming in these
realms of where I was wandering when [I got] up. And [after I realized it] I was no longer
getting up because I didnt have to. I was conscious enough in sleep to be traveling to
these worlds, which arent very pleasant. Theyre full of the worst, all of our worst fears,
all of our worst, everything that were afraid of, or that we think is horrible. Smells,
thoughts, animals, beings, dangers, theres always a feeling of darkness, traveling at
night, trying to find the right vehicle, the right, which is, I took it as the right method,
trying to find light and trying to find home. And in the meantime forces are coming at
you in the forms of people. There could be pleasant thingsparties, spiritual gatherings
even, like a false auraand they lead you in the wrong place. Youre not going home
youre going further away, youre going to a deeper tunnel. And it smells worse, and it
feels worse, and its more uncomfortable, and people come at you to try to kill you. [In]
one of the deepest experiences of this type of thing happening in sleep, I was sound
asleep, was a being that was ripping at me. I had seemingly entered this deep cavern, and
it appeared as a man, as a human, at first. And it was enticing me for something, which I
cant fully remember, as a way home I believe, which was death if I followed it would be
death. And I said, Wait, as something struck me, it was something from deeper in me. I
probably had a [nervous overload] at the time, I could feel something like an electric
shock within me, in this deep state, in sleep. I wasnt feeling it, but my guess was that my
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body was going through this. And I was trying to find a way, something in me was
aspiring to bring something in that could not allow this to happen. And as this happened
this creature revealed a different form. It was very terrifying and it just wanted to eat the
life out of me. And I sensed it as on the border of the vital world and the physical world,
which is death, inertia.
So I had gone pretty deep, but this is, this has been for last decade my part of my
yogathis conscious dreaming and this work, inwardly, battling the forces. So Ive had
to learn a way before I go to sleep to call the Mother, for guidance, protection. I think
what the Mother does is to leave you to feel your vulnerability until you can open enough
to call. That seems to be the structure of the physical universe. Were here; we seem to be
caught in it until the mechanism of calling, until the light gets in enough to wake us up
enough to call. So, Ive been woken up enough in sleep to be conscious of going through
this. Its almost like my sleep is my daily life, a humans daily life, that Im experiencing
what people experience in the waking state even while Im asleep, but only more
intensely, and physically too.
Now whats beginning to emerge in this sleep process is even if I go deeper, its
lighter, I travel more quickly to a place I call home, I get home, and I go up as well as
down. There are moments where there are explosions of light and I can see Sri Aurobindo
or the Mother, and its not always just them, but its what I call light beings that
permeate. So now something is coming in, and I have dramatically noticed a change in
me and my life.
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Descent: Experiencing the Void
There is one other place, and it interacts with the [the nervous system disorder]
again, because I was very afraid of it at first. But Ive come to some understanding about
it but not fully. I could be in a particular room or particular place, it could be a restaurant
or say a barroom or subway, it could be in a garden, I was in a barbershop the other day
and I was reading a newspaper, and I was jolted, I felt a shock. Not a vibration or
anything, but its what I call the rug [being] pulled out from under me. And of course this
triggers the fear [of whether Im] having a [nervous system overload], which is
interesting, because when Im having [an overload] I dont usually notice it. Its after the
fact that I become semiconscious and start noticing.
But in these circumstances, theres a sensation like the rug is pulling out from me,
and theres a void. Everything goes black. It can close up into a whoosh-whoop, like to a
single thread, and then if I let go again, it immediately starts. Its like its pulling me into
this nothingness, and theres a part of me thats terrified at that moment. If I'm in the right
place and the right circumstances I've learned to let go and to center and let be what may.
And it dissipates as far as being a black void and I start sensing the environment. And
generally its because theres something in the environment that doesnt represent higher
forces; theres something in the energy that is death that is very negative. And it can be
anywhere, because this force is anywhere, but for some reason it wants to touch me. And
so in a sense it may be some kind of lesson that I'm to be learning about being aware of
forces or something that wants to attack, and I cant fully explain it. Theres something in
me that has the metaphor that contacts that, that sees that, and then is alerted. For a while
I was wondering whether its a passageway also, whether I was going through a path,
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where the void was a passageway through something that you had to go through the void.
And its not so much that I'm letting go and that its the passageway, the void, [but] that
there are two different black voids that have different qualities, it seems to me. When I go
inward and upward, it has a certain quality, there it becomes a void or a darkness. But
when youre going down, theres a power or an energy thats an ultimate likeness that
feels smothering in a taking-away-your-breath, your energy, type of manner. So I feel
that something in me has touched that, in that energy, in that field, and I dont know fully
why.
And its hard to tell sometimes [because] both things can happen. Sometimes
forces come, it depends upon where you are and things, there are formations. I can tell
the difference. [Its as if I went into another realm, another dimension, to do one or the
other, a weigh station]. And if I dont do that then the circumstances can be negative.
Theres so much energy in that they can, either residual energy that I absorb or the
circumstances in that environment, magnify in their negativity. When working with a
dying patient or a pain patient or a diseased person, when those things happen, if Im not
open to dying with it, open to being with it, and [having a] fully open sense of not fearing
whatever that formation is, then it becomes stuck in me as well as in that person, because
Ive united with it in some way. So Ive had to become, to be fearless, to, as the Mother
said, never worry, to just refer back to opening to her. [How I get out of it is] I give it to
the Mother, every moment, but sometimes the consequences of the moment are a little bit
more intense. I cant work with these things, I dont have the ability or the power. The
only power that I have is to remember to surrender to it, to let her do it. And its literal,
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its not figurative, Oh, let the Mother do it. [Its] very physical, very, very physical,
very psychological.
[Annie]: Negative Forces Through the Subliminal
Ive had the experience of going into the subliminal, into the dark neighborhoods,
and that was terrible. That was an accident. When I was doing drugs and stuff in the 60s.
I had this wonderful experience of my soul merging on acid once and love, love, love.
And then I thought, Okay, I should quit now, because now Ive found the ultimate. Did
I listen to my soul? No, I did not and kept on. I did five more mescaline trips and each
one got worse and worse and I started getting into the demon realms and finally, the last
one, Id get into this realm and have these grotesque hallucinations. It was the horror
realms, just horrible stuff happening, I wont even go into it. So, then I stopped.
Seventeen years later, Id been doing hatha yoga for 3weeks and I was way out here in
the subliminal, in the inner consciousness, huge, just spread out. [I was physically and
emotionally exhausted from an illness] so I got really sick in my outer being. The fellow
that I was living with, I told him that he had to leave, and he was furious. I was under all
this pressure and stress and all that. You know, when you talk about the nervous envelope
that protects you, [my nervous system] had holes in it. So, I sat down to meditate and I
looked up. And in those acid trips 17 years ago, the ceiling would open, this crack would
open and this dark stuff would come down. So, that night, 17 years later, when Id been
spread out for 3weeks and I didnt have any strength in my nervous being and my partner
is furious at me and I go to meditate. Bad mistake, dont do it!! The ceiling cracked open
and the demon realms came in and I couldnt get out of it for a year. Thats why I wont
go to horror movies. If you want to know what its like just go to the horror movies,
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where you have those supernatural horrible things. [I dealt with them for a whole year in
my waking consciousness.] Its like schizophrenia, terrible voices, electrocutions, spikes
driven through your brain, axesI wont even go into it.
[I was able to move through it by doing] lots of mantras, lots of calling on the
Divine. It happened in the mental substance, it was insanity in the mental substance, so I
had to stay out of mind, I couldnt be in my mind. So, if you go down into your vital and
you go GI Joe, you know the will, that would work. If you go into your psychic being,
that would work. So, I would go down into my psychic being or into my vital [and work
from there] and not even be in the mind. And the other way is dont look at it, just do
the laundry, go shopping, just you know dont look. [Dont give it energy] Dont look, if
you look at it, youre dead. A friend who had gone through some psychic healing came
and he brought a nice energy into the house and so slowly it kind of patched over. But
that was a terrible one, you know. And I still, when I get real tired, I know where that [is].
Its a bad neighborhood in the subliminal and I really have to be careful not to go there. I
was afraid; for a year I couldnt meditate because I couldnt go into the inner
consciousness because thats where it was, thats where they attacked you.
[And I didnt think I had the strength to move through it.] I mean, God, you know,
these are major asuras, ooh! And I didnt go to the psychiatrist either, because in the West
theres no model, they would just give me Librium, or Thorazine or Stelazine. [And label
me a] nut case, yeah, schizophrenia. And back 20 years ago, they said schizophrenia
couldnt be cured. They know better now, you know, Nash [in the movie] A Beautiful
Mind and all that. But thats what schizophrenia is in my mind, youre seeing things in
the subliminal that other people cant see. And theyre there all right. Its the yogis who
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know how to deal with them, not the Western scientists; and the shamans. So, dont do
drugs, because thats what it was, this is what they call a bad acid flashback. And thats
what made the rent in the first place, and it was that, it was the weak will that broke
again. [Its going into those realms without the psychic strength for it].
And, you know, thats one time that my psychic being did come forward, like
major one night in the middle of that. It was just this huge emergence, like Wonder
Woman, it just burst forth. That was interesting. One of the first times that it came
forward that strongly. So, that was a help, and Sri Aurobindo came one night, and that
was one of those times that he came and he showed me how to throw away thoughts
before they got in, put out a big perimeter. You could feel those guys coming, those nasty
influences. You can just put out a perimeter and before they even get into your mind, put
the silence there and keep them out. So, I learned how to do that. [Its a perimeter] a
room of silence. Because once theyre in, youre dead, so keep them out.
[Rose]: Dreams of Hate and Horror
I did have dreams of hate and horror, but I have always been protected so much in
my life. A few times, when I was with Sri Chinmoy, I dont know if it was a dream but
[there was] a nasty being trying to get me in my dreams. It was very vivid too, so Im not
sure if it was really there or if it was just a dream, it could be both. But, whenever that
appeared I had the awareness to call out for Sri Chinmoy or for Jesus, for Christ, so then I
always woke up. Sometimes I couldnt even say it in my dream, I couldnt get that word
out, so I had to focus so hard to get the word out and then getting it out I would wake up
and hear myself saying the word. But I think there was always that protection.
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Overall Story Psychic Being
[Gopal]
One time while leaving the Samadhi, you could feel the sweetness. It wasnt a
smell or taste, it just felt like a sweetness. This is a quality of the psychic being, a psychic
presence of the Mother.
[Running Water]
At the same time outwardly my practice has developed, the psychic, I can feel this
thing more. Its come alive. And that has been, I believe, at nighttime. That nightly thing
has been a productive yoga to bring my sitting meditation and yoga and outer life to more
fruition. I dont know where and how far its going, but my [nervous system overloads]
have diminished almost completely in the last year and half also. I think it doesnt have a
hold on the nervous system. I dont know if its the physical nervous system that is
involved with the battle between higher forces and lower forces, light energies, and
certain forces of matter that cant hold the light, but as its purified, as its harmonized, as
its lifted, as light is brought into it, it has a different capacity.
So, I believe Im evolving in a certain sense, and I dont know how much. In
reading, in writings I understand that as you bring forward the psychic, as you contact it
you bring it forward. The purification takes place inwardly first, an inner vital and an
inner physical, an inner mental, and I think something has gone on there. There have been
more changes in my outer life too. I wont go so far as to claim that there is a mutation in
my physical being. I think thats the very last things that take place in any human being,
but I believe, a lot, there are so many sustaining energies that we are not aware of or
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familiar with that something is being cleared, something is being harmonized, and it took
a long period of time to do that.
[Pancho]: Close Encounter With My Soul
The place I was staying at, I had this room, which I liked, it was a big room. But
then the owner of the house asked me to move to the basement, he was giving my room
to his visiting son. And so, what I thought was the last night in the room, I was kind of
mourning, Well this is my last night in the room. I think I was reading The Mother, that
book by Sri Aurobindo, and then suddenly, well yeah, suddenly everything started getting
really bright. I could tell it was much brighter, it was like something had bloomed. [At]
first I thought [it was] from within me. I thought, God, somebody gave me some
psychedelic drug. Im in trouble, <Laughter> Then I realized that wasnt what it was.
And then I realized that it was the soul. It came from the center [of my chest], but this
wasnt specifically the Mothers presence, this wasnt Christ or Sri Aurobindo, this was
me. I think Sri Aurobindo wrote something about the lotus, the deep lotus of the heart
bursts, irradiating the entire being. It was like that except it was all around me too. It
filled the room and everything was infinitely precious. I could feel concretely the
presence of the Divine, it was definitely bliss for no reason, and really intense so I believe
that the heart was involved in it too. You can have an experience of the psychic being
thats just still and calm and peaceful, austere joy. This was more, it was the whole ball of
wax. And I kept reading the Mother. I did a mantra, I wanted to keep my mind quiet. It
wasnt like your mind couldnt move, but it was like it had no purpose and you didnt
want to write it down, you wanted to allow this to happen. This was you coming out. Its
transformative.
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The vital being and the physical were fine with it. But the vital, it will start
saying, Oh, you must be some really high being, look at this youre experiencing. No,
no, keep still, I want to identify with this psychic being, I want to identify my outer
everyday being with this psychic being. And I just let it happen and it got more intense
for maybe it lasted 45 minutes. I wish it wouldve stayed, but it was something. It was
like something permanently had changed, even though the intensity of it didnt stay, and
it didnt stay in the same way in my outer consciousness, I can feel the psychic presence,
but I cant always, and its like it was a foretaste of something to come. It wasnt the
whole ball of wax, although it certainly seemed that way.
[Sri Aurobindo once described the psychic being to a disciple as] a feeling of
velvety softness and an ineffable plasticity within[Roy, Dilip Kumar. Sri Aurobindo
Came to Me, p. 472] that rapidly became something so concrete that [he] could almost
touch it with my fingers. And then he [said other things, like] all your anxiety goes away.
You cant be anxious or depressed while youre feeling the psychic presence. [And] It
was the same thing. And that gave Dilip Kumar Roy some hope that somebody is
experiencing something, [because this was around the 1930s]. And you know that it
works, because I feel Sri Aurobindo says that this can, it changes the substance of the
consciousness. And even if it doesnt stay, it makes for a steady change and it can help
bring about the transformations. The actual substance of your consciousness can change
and eventually will permanently change, and Sri Aurobindo said this feeling, this velvety
softness and feeling of ineffable plasticity can be nothing else than the psychic being.
Only it can bring such happiness and inward solace. The point being, my experience was
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very much like Dilips and, later, sometime after my experience, reading of Dilips
experience in his letter and Sri Aurobindos reply was confirmatory.
[Afterward] I felt changed. I felt closer to the psychic being, but I felt that I had a
lot of work to do, that [this] wasnt my everyday normal state. And I realized there are a
lot of kinks in my mind and my vital. Physical is usually more open to it. Physical has no
problem with it, but the vital wants its way. And the mind has its ideas. But this was
totally non-mental, it was not the vital, and so it was something to aspire to and realize. I
know [now] what it feels like, but Im sure, it can happen even more fully and it can stay.
I feel a sense of openness and some joy to be able to devote myself to something
directly connected with the sadhana that I do. I feel kind of a spaciousness inside me that
is growing. I cant say that its exactly the psychic being but from the inner being
anyway, which includes it, and some kind of an opening to a force above. And when I am
not doing anything I usually feel something like that. It is harder to bring that when I get
real involved, but when I am by myself, I usually do feel some of that, some kind of inner
feeling of joy with no particular reason that has nothing to do with my situation.
I dont usually call these things. The Mother says it will get to the point where
with just a little concentration you can have a full psychic presence just by turning
yourself there. I can feel aspiration, and I think its connected with the inner being, inner
heart, but not complete psychic. I feel more a sense of, there is an inner being here and
[the] psychic is there. But thats sort of changed, I realize that just by putting your
consciousness a lot in this area it tends to open it up and it develops.
And some people, a lot of people, dont have the psychic opening and they mostly
get the stuff that comes from above, and that can produce the psychic opening, they can
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work synergistically, like Sri Aurobindo preferred people [to do]. After a certain point, he
realized the natural sequence was the psychic opening, calling from above and its natural
process, but then a lot of people didnt have that, they were mostly open in the mind. And
there is some question he himself seems to have gone more the mental path, you know,
and found out more about the psychic later or realized that he had it but didnt pay much
attention to it, because his innermost lotus was already so open, so that people, the light,
they just kind of get in their inner being and they try to get connection to the force from
above and let it come down. And that was the way they did the yoga originally before he
realized the full significance of the psychic being. But youre hoping its where the inner
psychic, youre hoping its the psychic doing the aspiration. Im sure that, the inner vital
is there. <Laughter> But there are different ways to do it and they all work, but its a little
safer if you can go through the psychic because it has a sense of balancing everything.
[Janaka]: Opening of the Psychic Being
It was probably some time in the mid 1990s, that the psychic being opened, only I
felt it being more and more active over the years, [becoming] more and more palpable. It
felt like there was a place there where there hadnt been before. At one point, what both
Mother and Sri Aurobindo referred to as a reversal of consciousness came and all of a
sudden it wasnt me seeking the psychic being, I was the psychic being, and an identity
was forged.
The image just came to me of a salmon swimming upstream and just knowing
instinctively its goal. Its just constantly having to leap and struggle and swim and fight
against the current, swimming over rocks and dams and all the obstacles, sometimes
being stuck for a long time, but sensing the goal as it came closer and closer. [Which is
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why aspiration is so important.] Absolutely. And finally there comes a moment when the
last rapids are conquered and you come into the wide-open lake of your birth, and there
you are. There is no more struggle; youre there. Thats what it felt like to me. All I can
recall is just a huge lessening of tension. You realize it later, I mean, at first youre just in
the experience. And I think it probably took a day or two, you know, I didnt want to
mentalize it because that would be coming out of the experience. So, I just let myself be
in that experience, letting it fill me in. And Mother would talk about an experience that
she would have and then she would just cling to it, as if it were life itself because she
didnt want to lose it. And thats how I felt, and I dont know if I needed to but I felt like
I needed to. And then afterwards, after it receded a bit and I had a mind again,
<Laughter> it was clear to me that this was the psychic realization. [And] that changed
everything.
The description Mother gives of the psychic, Mother really says it when they talk
about the psychic, is naturally turned to the Divine. Its not struggle, its not questioning,
its not Well, is it this way or that way? The psychic has an inherent knowledge, an
inherentI think of it as the philosophers stone of the ancient alchemists. Its the
touchstone that makes all else pure and true. It has an innate purity, and an innate truth
and awareness. It doesnt have the power of the supramental consciousness, the power to
transform, but rather it has the power to know, to be able to distinguish between true and
false. Between that which is Divine and which is not Divine [So spiritual discernment].
Absolutely. So, previously whenever there was a choice between movements to be made,
Well do I want to accept this thought thats come into my mind or do I want to reject
it? or Is this the right thing to do or is that the right thing to do? And I would just have
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to really use all my awareness, offering up and praying and this and that, and even then I
could be fooled. I could just start going down a slippery slope, one of the many mud pits
that frequent the path. All of a sudden it was possible to just say, Oh, it really feels right
about this, or Theres something off, off about that.
So, its seeing and its feeling and its knowing. An the interesting thing about it
is that, I mean its hard to sort of draw a map of it, but the way I think about it is that, and
again I'm referring back to Sri Aurobindos letters mostly, there is a central realization
affecting who you are, who you think of yourself as. And all of a sudden you're that,
you're not the person who is born in XYZ state, to such-and-such parents and such-and-
such religion and race and so on. All those other things are secondary. [It] is that core
identity. There are so many different parts of you, but theyre each going their separate
ways. I think of the psychosynthesis model that has all your subpersonalities, you know,
and theyre all sort of spinning around the I, the letter I, not e-y-e. And so once that I,
[the] true self, is realized, then it becomes so much easier to integrate the different
subpersonalities one after another. I mean its still work, it still takes time, its not
instantaneous by any means, but that becomes the beginning then of another level of the
path. I think of a climber coming to a plateau on a hillside, and all of a sudden a steep
ascent has ended but then huge vast vistas open up. So its an end but its a beginning.
The first stage of the transformation that Sri Aurobindo delineates in the Letters
on Yoga is that psychicisation, its almost, as hard to pronounce as it is to do. So, then
that can begin in earnest at that point. So something comes up in your life and either an
outer circumstances or inner part of yourself comes into focus. Like when youre driving
at night [and] the headlight beams pick out a tree or a bush or a rabbit crossing the road,
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or something and that becomes your world at that moment. And previously it became a
very long process of, really, identification with that but with the spiritual awareness
present, and then slowly trying to tease out the different aspects of it, and then slowly
letting that sort of soup boil to the point where it would gel and it would become
integrated. And there would be a sense of relief and release, and a healing if necessary, a
little bit of a sigh of relief and then the next one would come along. With the psychic
identification, all of a sudden that was just made so much easier and really a natural
process then. The sense of struggles been taken away, the sense of doubting and the need
for discernment. Thats why, when Im talking about the tension, its that first release.
Because theres a knowing, and theres a sense of having arrived. All of a sudden youre
home. And then the transformation, the spiritual practice, becomes a question of simply
bringing all the different parts into relation with that central truth, that central knowing,
and letting that develop, letting that do the purification, letting that do the reorientation.
I think a better image, more apt image, is one similar to, when you asked about
my early practice it just came back to me. One thing I used to was to do was to imagine
the fire, because reading about agni and (something Sri Aurobindo would write) of
pouring all your doubts and all of your negativities and so on, just throwing them into the
fire. And so I would imagine a fire. And I would imagine myself pouring all these things,
throwing these logs on the fire. That was also my aspiration, and I later learned that that
was also the psychic being, but again it was always very distant, at a distance. And now I
was the fire. So all I had to do was just bring all these things into my heart and the fire
was there and it would do its work of purification. And, again just, from the readings, all
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thats negative is burned away and all thats true is saved and reconfigured to become
integrated with the truth thats seeking to be manifested.
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Overall Story Sense of Isolation
[Akroyd]: Isolation From Integral Yoga Community
One thing I do feel is I wasnt spending much time with the local community,
partially because its taken the community time to sort of solidify over the years, for
different reasons, and because of my life, where it was leading me was far away from
Pondicherry. I felt that theres a lot to be said about just being alone with Mother and Sri
Aurobindo, and being alone with their books and being alone with their thoughts as well
as contemplating them. But also just being away from a community where you have all
these different people interpreting it. On the one hand, theres a community and its a part
of a collective aspiration. And theres a lot to be said about it, but for me, to just be alone
with their books and pictures really created a stronger link, the all important inner link,
with them directly. I feel like if I had been more connected to the community when I was
younger I might have, to use the Buddhist metaphor, taken refuge in the Sangha instead. I
was easily influenced 30 years ago. It was really a blessing to be alone with them,
because I had to figure my sadhana out myself and really make that connection in that
way, and the purity of that. [In retrospect I believe, I wouldve been influenced by other
people.]
And for a long time, there was no one I could talk about it, in my life anyway.
And so, it was just all sort of internalized. Anyway, from reading them, and seeing those
ideas and grappling with them and the power behind that, the shakti behind it, I was able
to grasp it in a purer way than if I depended on the admixture of the latest intellectual
d'jour. I just think that whenever we read them, were having darshan with them, were
making that link, that connection. I am speaking here about making a direct inner
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connection with them, rather than through the local talking intellectuals. Of course
Satprem is an exception, but he is the only intermediary that I have accepted, because the
politics got so ugly after the Mother left. [Circumstances prevented a stronger
connections to Integral Yoga community] Part of it was that, in 79, I think at that time I
wouldve been interested in some place like Auroville or the ashram, but it was all very
much in turmoil. And Auroville, where most of my friends were, it was really under siege
at that time. People were getting beaten up.
[Gopal]: Fitting In
I dont fit in anywhere. I dont even fit in in the yoga.
[Running Water]: Isolation From Integral Yoga Community
Ive stayed away from a certain part of the community aspect of this. I dont know
if Im meant to really interact with this community in this way. I interact with all
communities. My intent and my sense right now is for me to maintain a connection with
the Mother and the community that maintains the connection with the Mother in some
way so that the cord is there, that theres the connection and theres an energetic. Ive
struggled with [this], and it didnt resonate with me. Theres something that felt too
orthodox, too cut off, too religious in the sense of, Oh the oneness, its abstract, yet,
you know, Were better than this group, or, you know, This group isnt up to par with
the best group. Were with the Mother, things like that. I cant relate to it. Theres a
falseness to it. [But] I want to be in touch with that community, because I believe theyre
in touch with something very beautiful thats happening here on this planet. And I have a
sense that Im moving back towards more interaction with it, but I had to do a certain
amount of work. The work that I do individually in the areas I do it has been
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overwhelming enough and the forces have been overwhelming enough. I think there is
some pretty powerful forces around that community that are both positive and negative
possibly. Satprem was a good example of experiencing some of them. And I think that
[the Mothers] kept me at a distance for a reason, why I dont know fully, to do the work
here.
[Annie Dutts]: Finding a Community to Live In
I regret that I havent [found a spiritual community to live in.] I lived in a few
different communities, three different communities, and the communities always seemed
to be kind of narrow and moralistic and small. And the mental framework was too
narrow. So, I had to be out here in order to have a wider mental freedom and Sri
Aurobindos huge grasp of the world. But I do regret that I havent had company, that I
havent had more company, people to live with and stuff like that. I wouldve liked to
have gone a little deeper and closer, but that hasnt worked
[Rose]: Feeling Different, Not Understood, Isolated
Its really funny to talk about those experiences because I gave up [talking] to
anybody about those experiences. It takes away talking about it. You cant explain it
anyway, and most people get that deer in the headlight kind of fear in their eyes when
you talk to them about it. So its a little bit unusual for me to talk about it [now]. I dont
feel uncomfortable about it; Im just not used to it. I feel comfortable talking to you about
it. And I do feel the sacred space too, I can feel it.
I would like to have a few close contacts with other people who are familiar with
the Mother and Sri Aurobindo; I didnt find anybody here [where I live] yet, but
sometimes I think it would be nice. But on the other hand, Im aware too, how much we
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limit each other with our human limitations and thats what I found a lot when I was with
Sri Chinmoy. I wonder if he was even caught in all the human limitations of his disciples.
Mother in her Agenda talks a lot about it. Since Im a little bit out here all on my own, I
think maybe its a real blessing [that] I dont have to deal with those limitations, I
wonder. Because when youre in a group youre very much under the pressure of what
the group okays or not. [The sense or that urge to conform or the power of others to want
others to conform.] And remember we talked about all the different things I integrated in
my life. I dont know if I would have been able to integrate those in my life, being in a
group that dictates a lot about what you have to think or not, or how you have to do
things. Which Im not saying that a group is not good; some people really need to be told,
Do this; do that. They thrive on it, but its probably the best that I went on my own and
was capable of integrating on my own all those different aspects in my life.

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Discussion Story Intuition and Group Dynamics
[NOTE: This discussion occurred during Cathleen Carmichels interview.]
Cathleen: Ive always considered myself a pretty intuitive person and I think that a
lot of that has to do [with my work]. Its really important to be attuned to the nonverbal
communications and I think that its a hard thing for me to articulate much. I honor my
intuition. I think its really important to have a way to recognize when you are getting an
inspiration and when something is clear and true and right. But how do you act upon it?
And how to follow it and remember that one persons intuition is probably still only just a
part of the whole and how do you allow others intuitions and others part of the prism to
come together to create the whole? I used to think my own intuitions, even though I was
really quite intuitive and often quite correct about people and circumstances and
dynamics of what was happening, how important is it that I have that intuition. To what
good, to what good is intuition, what benefit is it to have an insight or an ability to
understand, or pick up whats going on at a subtle level, what if you dont have that?
How is it useful? How is it useful and how do people who are very intuitive work
together? Thats not always an easy thing if you work with others, which I do. I work
with a lot of people in the yoga on the different projects that Im involved in and we are
all in our various ways spiritually in tune, whether its through intuition, through a very
enlightened mind, through a type of intuition that may be very different from mine.
Michele: Does intuition come from the same source? If it comes from the same
source and people are picking it up even though there are differences of intuitive
messages about maybe one topic. Especially when youre talking about these meetings
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and group dynamics. What have you found then, what have you come to the conclusion
about it?
C: Im not sure that I have any conclusions other than to recognize that its another
level of our ego if youre not able to let it go. Say, for example, [you are] working on a
project, I mean, Im very specifically thinking of a very recent thing. The other people are
yoga practitioners, for many years, and [some]ones feeling and sense is, You know, I
just get a feeling that this is the way its going to be if we do this. And then out comes
this sense of, from that perspective, This is what I think is happening, Then my own
feeling, my intuition of the thing that were talking about was so far removed from that,
that it was like, Okay, well, heres my take on that. So you have the devils advocate
sort of thing, its not an uncommon thing, but yet we think of it much more perhaps in
mental or academic argumentyou would certainly expect the devils advocate, right?
But somehow if we think intuition has to be above and beyond and its a universal truth
were tapping into, then how could it be that your universal truth and my universal truth
arent the same? Well, it is, that does happen, and I think its one of the big challenges for
all of us who work with Mother and Sri Aurobindo together and are seeking this level of
collaboration. Certainly, Auroville is struggling with it all the time, because when we
seek truthfully and I sincerely believe that that is what were all doing, I dont doubt that.
I just know that were all still engaged with our egos and were all, I mean, its the rare
person whos egoless, and its the rare person who can, while they may be able to sustain
their psychic connection and their center in certain instances, to have it continuously
throughout the whole being is rare.
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So were all working together and I think thats part of what our job is right now
is to say Well what do we know together? Because our largest truth is going to be what
we all know together; its all collaboration. Its not a single person thats going to
experience a transformed world, its the world that is going to experience transformation.
Well, we are the world and what we think and how we intuit and we perceive and decide
and envision and embody, something as simple as a brochure or a [meeting or an
organizational] decision, all of this stuff, you bring to it what you have. So if you have
intuition, if you have intellect, if you have money, if you have wisdom, if you have
history and know the people and know the facets, we bring all of that as individuals quite
richly to the table. How able are we to embrace the richness of the other? Thats how the
intuition would be just like anything else. It could be [maybe me], one person whos very
strong artistic, right? So I could never have done this part of this thing, but I was the one
who had the vision of [the picture on the brochure], so that was like an intuition. It was a
very strong vision of how this subtle thing can be communicated. And the other people
had these other elements of that intuition and of that sense of what is the way. So I dont
know, I mean, its not an easy thing to talk about because intuition is so subtle,
nonphysical.
M: Well, and the whole aspect of intuition, too, is theyre bits of truth, of Divine
truth, that are filtered through our beings. So we interpret them depending on how they
come in. And I guess thats where you see the differences come in because of the
differences in beings that it comes through. But whos also not to say that this intuition
and this intuition and this intuition and this intuition in a group even though they sound as
if they are opposing, in fact when all of them are put together and accepted, a larger
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dimension changes. I see this with paradoxes, I finally figured this out about paradoxes,
that when two opposing viewpoints are accepted as equal and valid, somehow the
dimension shifts where theres a plane of existence where they coexist equally and are
accepted. Its a nondual type of thing, but it lifts us out of our ordinary into another
dimension.
C: Right, exactly, that would be it.
M: So, then the key would be how to integrate all these different intuitions, even if
they, uh, on the surface look like theyre opposing, knowing that theres truth in it.
C: Yes, right. Well, one of the things I have in my work, Ive just recently gone
through a period where I went out of being in power and I resigned. That was an
interesting thing, talk about power and dynamics and how those things work, there were a
lot lessons there. But what I would always to take to meetings, and I still have this but I
definitely really used it a lot. Theres this description from Sri Aurobindo from his
Letters on Yoga, which were wonderful, very practical ways to understand how to behave
in life while still practicing yoga. I wont be able to quote in any way; its just about how
to be with others in conversation. That you say only what needs to be said, without too
much force, without too much demand or insistence that are you right, and you will just
put your thoughts on the table to be considered as part of the matter and then leave it
there. I guess if more of us were able to do that, and its not easy for me, I tend to be very
passionate, I tend to say, Dont you guys hear because this is real? I always felt like I
was hitting my head against a wall, and I still feel that way, I feel like the walls are still
so strong thats it hard for all of us to find the table upon which we can even place our
thoughts and our insights and our intuitions. The tables not even clear, its not even
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present. People arrive at these meetings with their armor and theyre not in a position of
open-minded acceptance and the table being opened for all of our thoughts to arrive. And
thats a real challenge for all of us, or in any meetings and dynamic decision-making
things.
But, I always remember that from Sri Aurobindo. I mean, I cant tell you how
many things in my life have just been so powerfully influenced in my day-to-day work. I
would try to read that over and just remember that whatever my truth is, you know, as
you were describing how we all have the bigger picture, its by bringing it forward again
and again and again. Whether it is or not, whether it actually gets manifested through the
institution in which I work, Im not in control of that. I have to really surrender. So that
would be an aspect of karma yoga where I have come to this meeting, I have done the
work, the intention is to bring forward this element of whatever it is and the work I do,
and here it is and Im offering it, even though it might get the big kabosh, it doesnt
matter. Im not in charge of that, I still have to continue to bring forward the issues that I
believe are important for the health and well-being of the people I work for.
M: Well the other aspect I was thinking of too when we were talking about,
especially with group dynamics and the fact that people were saying that this is my sense,
their intuitions, coming through. It felt as if Sri Aurobindo accurately described what I
always sense about truths. He talked about the intermediate zone where truths are mixed
with untruths. And some people, when they get these intuitions, it may be coming from
the intermediate zone, that place where its all mixed up. But the idea then is to filter
those intuitions through our own truth to see if it is, in fact, truth. I feel that psychics and
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mediums are working in that zone. So, at least for me, Ive learned to just filter it through
my own truth system in terms of, Is this, does this feel, divinely true?
C: Discernment, its a spiritual quality, to be able to discern.
M: Right, and, that actually adds a whole other layer of group dynamics if were
talking about everybody coming in with intuitive truths and then finding a way to create
the concept that accepts all those truths, or come to a decision that accepts all those
truths. Plus then having to wonder which ones are bringing in truths that are actually
truths with a capital T, versus truths with a little t. And as a leader of a group that
would be a challenge. I never thought of looking at group dynamics from this standpoint
either. But, also when youre working with a very spiritual group of people, Ive noticed
that group dynamics still are group dynamics no matter how highly evolved spiritually
they are. Therere still those glitches that seem to occur, but thats a new paradigm to
look at.
C: Its the way were trained in the West particularly, to value our individual
perspective, that That is my identity, its my right, its my God-given right, and who are
you to tell me anything? There [are] some strengths to that, theres some incredible
advantages to that independent thought, and that ability to say confidently, I can think
and go as far as I want in this direction and go wherever I want. The down side to that is
then when youre at this table that were at, trying to recreate our selves and transform
our world, once you put your thing on the table and really truly let go of it and relinquish
it, your truth may find its place. And it may be over here in some small corner of some
very vaster reality that really never had occurred to you. And you, as a leader or as a
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member of that group may have to just recognize [the possibility that] you didnt even
have a clue what it was you were working on.
Its like the story of the elephant and the blind man, where the one is grasping the
tail and the elephant is long and has a stringy, and has a tuft at the end. Or, he describes
the trunk and says thats an elephant, that the leg is an elephant. Thats the essence right
there, we could all be them. My idea could have only been that little scruff of the tail, but
its part of the elephant. But who actually has the whole vision of the whole majesty, of
the huge body, full-bodied, live elephant? That would be the rare person. That would be
the rare person who could actually even see that it had four legs and two tusks and a
trunk, because were see ego-bound. I think that when we get beyond our ego well be so
much better off and we can so understand all of this. But, boy, group dynamics and the
yoga is a big subject, huge subject.



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Discussion Story Cosmic Consciousness
[NOTE: This discussion occurred during Annie Dutts interview.]
Annie: Cosmic consciousness. I forgot about that one. Cosmic consciousness is
when its the enlightenment experience, its when you go out and you become everything
around you. And its the one self and all, the one in all and the all in one. I look over
there and Im the bookcase and I am the notes, I am the musicians on the stage. I just love
that one, thats truly fun.
Michele: Im getting technical here, because when I was trying to understand
Integral Yoga in the higher supramental consciousness, I was trying to figure out where
cosmic consciousness was. And my sense from the reading was that it started at higher
mind and actually went all the way up through illumined mind, so it was as if it were a
palate behind or immersing all the others.
A: That is the best question and Ive been trying to figure that out and Ive been
talking to my friend about that for a while. I think its generally understood that it is a
part of the overmind. It is up here. Theres no ego in the cosmic consciousness. Its like
above the illumined mind and below the supermind.
M: So its in those strata.
A: I think so but the thing is you can get into it through different channels. Like, you
can get into it through the vital. There are different floors and you could go in. I think, I
usually go into the vital. So, the question is if its the vital cosmic consciousness, or you
go through the vital and then you leap up to the overmind. Im not technically quite sure.
M: So now we are talking about if there are even layers of cosmic consciousness.
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A: Thats the question and if you find out let me know. Because thats a technical
question and I dont quite know the answer to that.
A: Thats a damn good question.
M: So thats my sense of itwas that its behindbut also immersed
A: Yeah, heres my sense of it, the metaphor that I would give to it. Its like an
elevator. So youre outside the elevator, thats your surface consciousness. You push the
button, the elevator opens and you go into the elevator and now youre in the subliminal.
So, Ive gone and Im on the floor of the vital; theres a vital floor, theres a physical
floor, theres a mental floor. I happen to be on the vital floor. And I go into the elevator
so I go into the subliminal through the vital and then I take it up to maybe the overmind.
M: So its like an elevator with a sub-elevator?
A: No, you go in this way and then you just shoot up into the conscious kind of like
that. That is a very homemade metaphor, so Im not sure if its accurate or not.
M: We all get our sense of it and eventually put it all together and it becomes more of
a picture.
A: Thats the thing about this when you get into Sachchidananda; its a trinity. Sat-
chit-ananda. But its one thing and its not divided. So you get into the cosmic
consciousness and its not divided.
M: It is. And thats the part is that my sense of overmind is that now you are getting
into the nondual realm from overmind upmaybe illumined mind.
A: No, not nondual. Because the supermind is not nondual. The supermind has all of
multiplicity in it. Its unity but not nondual. Nondual is no differentiation. Supermind has
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the nondual and the multiplicity. So supermind has differentiation, supermind has the
nondual and the multiplicity.
M: It has it all.
A: It has them all, yeah, right.
M: Right, but theres a point where ones consciousness experiences nonduality that
theres not an either/or. And, cosmic consciousness also has that element to it as well.
A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
M: When people talk about cosmic consciousness, theres an aspect, and again, I
think were back to the fact that there may be many layers of cosmic consciousness.
A: Right, its true.
M: Which, as I said, I still go back to this picture of cosmic consciousness kind of
permeating the minds above higher mind up to overmind, and then, as you said,
supermind encompasses everything. So, it now takes the superconscient consciousness
and the lower consciousness and then it all becomes one.
A: Right. Yeah. Okay, so, so, so if you go into the cosmic consciousness through the
vital, how would you describe that? I mean, is that true, you know, because I know Im
going in through the vital, Im going in through here.
M: And what does it feel like when you do it?
A: And then it just feels like Im one everywhere. Right. So, if youre looking at it in
terms of the layers, Im one everywhere so I must be in the overmind somewhere, but I
went in through the vital.
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M: Right. And people go in through it through the subliminal at times too, because
the subliminal actually encompassesactually to me the subliminal is the backdoor to
the higher minds. I mean to the superconscient.
A: Yeah, right, right, right. So I go into the subliminal through the vital.
M: I have a feeling That makes sense to me
A: Yeah.
M: But because the vital has so much intensity to it that theres still so much
underneath the surface. So the vital to me is part of the subliminal, but youll get a
surface one where you can see it and then you have an unconscious subliminal, because
the vital is senses, and, to me, the subliminal is always sensing.
A: Subliminal actually is behind subliminal means the inner consciousness. And
there is the higher part of the subliminal and then theres this, the icky part too, so...
M: I know. Right, it has it all.
A: Its vertical, yeah, so you can go into the subliminal through the mind, through the
vital, or through the physical.
M: Exactly. That makes sense that the connection is feeling, sensing
A: Or through the subconscious. Yeah.

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Discussion Story Getting Integral Yoga Out There
[NOTE: This discussion occurred during Annie Dutts interview]
Annie: Theres this book [that talks about] the danger of premature claims to
enlightenment. Its a horrible book. I despise it, Ive been trying to read it for 6 years, Im
halfway through and I just cannot finish it. Its the whole thing about you shouldnt talk
about your experiences, all your experiences are nothing, your experiences are worthless,
youre having bliss, thats not enlightenment. You shouldnt talk about it, you shouldnt
think youre so great, and you should only talk to your guru about your spiritual
experiences. Okay, all of that for Integral Yogis is wrong, wrong, wrong. Number one,
we dont have an embodied guru, there is no one to talk to anymore. And all those gurus
out there dont make it, theyre so much less than Sri Aurobindo. And nobody
understands Sri Aurobindos yoga. Ken Wilbur doesnt understand the yoga, nobody gets
it, you cannot ask anyone, any of these gurus who are so small compared to Sri
Aurobindo about the yoga, you cannot. So you cant talk to [a] guru about this yoga and
[the book says] experiences are worthless. All those compact discs [that are sold], you
know [those feelings] you have, experiences of ananda and bliss, there is nothing in there.
The book talks about a guy is sitting in, in Zazen and he goes to his doroshi and he says,
Im experiencing a wave of bliss, Im one with everything. and [his teacher] goes,
Dont tell me about it, I dont want to hear, go sit and meditate. So it happens again and
he goes to his teacher, and he says Im full of bliss, and he says Dont tell me about it,
go meditate. Third time he goes and the teacher says, Youre wasting my time; youre
taking the place of someone who really wants to be enlightened. If you cant stop talking
I want you to leave.
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Okay, so all these experiences and these traditional spiritualities are considered worthless
because theyre to get into total nondualism, outside of manifestation.
In Sri Aurobindos Yoga, these are powers that are part of the supramental nature
and they are valid and they are unavoidable and, and theyre good. So, if you have the
experience of ananda thats good, [although] you shouldnt get caught in it. And if you
have the experience of being able to send out shakti and influence happenings in the
world, thats good, that is power, and all these things are going to be powers of the next
species. So these experiences are valuable.
And then finally, this business about not talking about experiences to anyone, that
comes from a younger age in humanity I think, when these experiences were very rare
and humanity was in the animal stages and the spiritual people were in the caves. Right
now were on the edge of an evolutionary leap where theres going to be a massive jump
forward. And these spiritual teachings are available all over the place now, and I think
now that were up to the universal mind level, we have become sophisticated and we can
use the mind. Sri Aurobindo said use the mind, its the highest part of your being, you
can use that to bootstrap yourself up into the higher consciousness. So this business about
sharing findings and talking about the Yoga and collaborating in consciousness, I totally
believe that that is what were supposed to be doing. [And so] that is a bad book.
<Laughter>