Guest interview:

Chirag Patel




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is limited we would appreciate if we could keep on topic. Our guests are not here to be 'quoted'
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moderndoggroup.com

ADMIN NOTE: Hi everyone, we are delighted to have Chirag Patel with us tonight to chat to us
about training, behaviour and chickens Chirag is a certified pet dog trainer and behaviour
counsellor and holds a BSc (Hons) Degree in Veterinary Science. Based in the UK his company
'Domesticated Manners' handles an multitude of species. Chirag is also known for his articles
and blogs in Dogstar Daily and Dogs Today.
Chirag welcome! Thank you for joining us tonight. To start with, the video clip we showed
regarding your parrot is fantastic but what got you started in working alongside animals?



Sonia Calvert Woah, freaky! I just sent out a mail to several friends inviting them round to train my
new ex battery hens, who are kind of fiesty, in an informal chicken camp. I think they will do anything for food!

Chirag Patel Hi Thanks for the invite:) I know lots of people say "I always wanted to" but I really did.
Don't know why but have always been fascinated by animals (non-human) and humans too now. I got into
training and behaviour due to my beautiful GSD, Kane. He has been one of my many excellent teachers.

Denise O'Moore So how many pets have you now? Kane, Rio, Cody..?

Jason Currie Hi Chirag Patel Fiac welcome and thanks for sharing your time with us may ask some
questions later if you don't mind

Chirag Patel Sonia they are fantastic animals but just allow the hens to be your teachers and you will
learn so much! They have helped develop so much of my training skills with Bob Bailey and his workshops. How
long have you had them for?

Michael Peel Hi Chiraq, it's great to see you here. Of all the species you train, which do you prefer,
and why?
Denise O'Moore Chirag I just noticed Sonia Calvert has just mentioned she has an informal chicken
camp running - you have a 3 day chicken workshop coming up soon (will pin details at end)




Esther Chai Hi Chirag, could you describe Kane and what were the important things you've learn
from him?

Chirag Patel Denise O'Moore I live with 2 dogs (Kane and Cody) and two parrots (Rio and Shiv)

Denise O'Moore Both the parrots from the vid?

Chirag Patel Always welcome Jason Currie.

Tamara A Howard What was the most challenging task you have taught your GSDs and how did you
train that task?

Jessica Pender Hi Chirag, loved your parrot video! I have a 2.5 year old male Galah who's a bit of a
troublemaker. He's always been a bit of a biter but lately he's introduced a bit of sexual aggression into the mix.
He'll try to...you know...my hand and when I put him back in his cage he just screams for a few hours and will bite
me every time I go near him. Any suggestions? He's mostly affectionate (except when someone else comes into
the room) and will do anything for a sunflower seed (because he doesn't get them often!)

Chirag Patel Great question Michael, there are many animals that I can put on that list but you know what,
dogs are always up there for me. Can you imagine society without dogs? We ask so much of them and they just
wag, lick and never cease to amaze me.

Michael Peel Couldn't agree more. We're far too tough on them. We expect more from dogs than we
do from our children.

Jennie Sillence Hi Chirag, I hope my friend Ms Wings is ok. We had a great thing going. I wonder if
she pecks pink things Loved the chicken camp.

Chirag Patel Denise O'Moore I have learned and still learn so much from the hens and from the
workshops I took with Bob. I wanted to share my version of that experience with people who may not have the
opportunity to go learn from Bob and his hens. So have put on these 3 day practical skills workshops which just
started this year. First one was only a few weeks ago:) One of my fav quotes from the book Crucial
Conversations "Knowing is not knowing if it is not doing" The workshops are all about doing and changing our
own behaviour.

Denise O'Moore Thanks Chirag - will post link at end for all those interested in trying out chicken camp!!!

Chirag I noticed a question from Jesse Pender regarding a 2.5 year old Galah who is a troublemaker - any
advice?
Una O'Neill Furlong Chirag, have you ever worked in a rescue centre? If so what advice would you
give for training dog in that setting? Would you change your approach in any way?

Chirag Patel Esther Chai another great question:) Kane is now a 14 year old, German Shepherd. I got him
when he was 7 months as an ex-show dog that the breeder was not going to show. An example of something he
has taught me: is how training is important for going to the vets. Its not something with him I could just do without
training.

Yes Denise O'Moore they are my feathered friends.

Esther Chai Chirag, got you...this vet prep training is so often underrated. I'm guilty of that.

Chirag Patel Tamara A Howard Hi:) With Kane it has to modifying the biting behaviour towards people in
various situations. One reason I would say it was difficult was that I really didn't have a clued when I got Kane,
what I should do. But once I met many great teachers things really were not that difficult. It involved lots of
behaviour change on my behalf but I found out that if your willing to change your behaviour first then the animals
behaviour change follows more easily. When I find a training challenge then first rather than make it about the
animal I try and go away and see what I need to change in my behaviour then the challenge is often less
challenging. I know I kind of changed your question a little but couldn't think of a behaviour on my feet but typed
what came to mind ;P

Tamara A Howard Hi Chirag Patel Fiac it is great to have you here. You answered my question perfectly!

Dima Yeremenko Give us a few clever things do with our dogs - for those who don't have to battle
out of problem behaviors - still great to have some homework to do! Thanks, Chiraq.

Lindsay Mann Lovely to see you here Chirag - you know I am a big fan of your wonderful videos, do
you have any more on the way?

Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: For anyone interested in clicker chickens the place to book
is: http://www.oabc.org.uk

Animal behaviourist and dog trainer in Oxford and Oxfordshire Oxfordshire Animal Behaviour Centre
www.oabc.org.uk
Chirag Patel Hi Jesse They are great birds. Its great to see how you defined your use of the label
"troublemaker" because the label it self doesn't tell us what he is doing (his behaviour). But because you defined
it I can see you are writing about biting, screaming and we can discuss further the behaviour he is engaging in
with your hand. You also mention the environment they occur in so that also helps build the picture. We need to
look at what function they could serve and the consequences that occur currently when the behaviours happen.

I try not to advise too much specifically on problem behaviours online because I feel it is not respectful to the
animal or their carer to just fire a load of suggestions without first analysing the problem situation carefully for the
individuals as there can be many factors that influence behaviour change in animals. But here are a few general
principles you can apply to start with until you are able to assess the problem situation in more detail.

When you invite him on your hand maybe do this at times when the food reinforcer is likely to be most valuable to
him. So before breakfast or dinner are great times. When he is on your hand you can reinforce alternate
behaviours such as moving to or touching a target. Keep these interactions short. When you interact with him
physically, use interactions that are less likely to evoke the undesired response. Make the cage a fun place to be
by placing his food and treats around the cage in various toys or boxes to create puzzles and give him alternate
behaviours to engage in. Do not reinforce the screaming by talking to him or walking in the room etc Reinforce
with attention and food when he is displaying desirable behaviour when placed in the cage.
Susan Friedman has great articles on her website behaviorworks.org that you may find very interesting. Also feel
free to contact me if you would like to carefully evaluate and work through problem behaviours together. We can
discuss options by email. cpatel@domesticatedmanners.com

Esther Chai just thought I should also mention one biggie he has taught me is not to judge ethers who use
training methods that I may not use they way that they do or in situations that they do. I used more physical
methods early on with Kane but not because I didn't love him or care for him. But that the information that was
given to me and what I thought was best. If people were judgemental it just make me not like them and want to
listen to them. But it was the teachers who taught without treating me like I was mean that influenced my
behaviour the most.

Jennie Sillence It was great to have you at the workshop:)

Jennie Sillence Hope to get to the next one Chirag Patel Fiac

Chirag Patel Una Furlong where to start! I spend a week earlier this week with the BC SPCA. We had so
much fun working together teaching, learning and hopefully helping some of the animals in their shelters. I am
going to ask BC SPCA Victoria Branch and BC SPCA Burnaby Branch (2 of the shelters I got to visit) if they see
this comment and if they would like to share one or two top tips they picked up from our work together.

One tip would be use the small opportunities to teach as often time can be limited, don't wait for "formal training
sessions". All interactions are teaching opportunities. This is something I am sure you already do, but to come up
with a short answer is such a challenge when I like to give the long versions to most short answer questions

Sonia Calvert Any last tips for the chicken camp? I think some are building agility equipment and we
will be recording. You said to let the hens teach you. Does that mean you work mostly with 'shaping' or do you
lure and reward in combo?
Sonia Calvert ...start by charging the clicker as usual? little bit worried on the size of their tummies...erm, crops...
but they certainly have the greed, so hopefully no need to worry.

Tamara A Howard physical limitations aside, have you found any fundamental learning differences
between all of the species you have worked with?


Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: Hi all - thank you for all the amazing questions but unfortunately that is all we
have time for! Chirag will stay on and answer all the above - Thank you Chirag. Don't forget that next week -
same time same place - we have Grisha Stewart talking B.A.T so look out for announcement during week. To
contact Chirag via domesticated manners go to http:/www.dommesticatedmanners.com

Sonia Calvert Holy moly this is awesome! look forward to next week!
Chirag Patel Hey Dima Yeremenko I would say go for those medical and daily care behaviours. Eg. Dogs
may need at some point in their life to wear lampshade so we can give them a head start now as its often after an
emergency they need them and training time is often short in those situations. A few things I am working on are
mouth open behaviour, swallow tablets placed in their mouth, take what ever is offered from a syringe even if its
not a tasty treat as in the parrot video (but great fro dogs too). Am planning many workshops and seminars next
year on this topic as its my favourite topic. For me training for health and care giving behaviours is my sport and
my competition is when I need to use them in real life.

Una O'Neill Furlong I completely agree Chirag Patel Fiac. I have just started in Battersea this week.
I have been shadowing some people and watching how they interact. They are amazing at what they do and how
much they get out of the dogs in such a short period. It is such a difficult job as there is so little time to spend with
such a large amount of dogs, some of which are stressed beyond believe. But I have to say I completely agree
with your point in using every opportunity no matter how small. Today I worked with a GSX who was so stressed
and jumpy in kennels but by just to a little bit of focus work in the kennel before leaving made him calm for walks
and then doing a sit and 3 sec wait building up to 10 second wait before throwing a toy introduced self control
and focus. Was amazing to see a change so quickly. Such a difficult but highly rewarding job. But I will carry your
advice with me. Thank you so much Chirag.

Tamara A Howard A huge thank you to Chirag Patel Fiac!


Una O'Neill Furlong Well done Denise O'Moore fantastic facility having such brilliant trainers
available to answer our questions. Thank you so much.

Dima Yeremenko Thanks, Chiraq - never covered an independent Open Mouth / Yawn behaviour yet
- will give it a shot.

Jessica Pender Thanks so much Chirag! Great advice I will try it straight away.. Sorry I didn't get to
reply earlier, my phone died..

Tamara A Howard Brilliant trainer, brilliant advice, and brilliant job Denise O'Moore, Thank you for
another educational opportunity that was so well done!

Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: Thanks all, especially our guest Chirag for staying longer to answer all. If
any of your questions have been missed please rewrite and tag Chirag in them Websites to check:
http:/www.dommesticatedmanners.com
and for chicken clicking...hhtp:/www.oabc.org.uk

Chirag Patel Lindsay Mann I have some plans:) So hopefully.

Denise O'Moore Chirag before you go - when are you going to write a book?

Chirag Patel Sonia Calvert by let them teach you I meant dont get too focused on teaching lots of
complex things. Focus on your application of the fundamental principles, timing, rate of reinforcement, criteria
selection etc Then watch the hens and see what they are teaching you about your skills. Play around with
things like charging clicker vs just starting to use it and see what happens. Keep data. If you see a debate "this is
better than this etc.. " where people go on for what seems like ages debating whose right. You can test it with the
hens and see what the data tells you:)

Sonia Calvert Gotcha, thanks so much for sharing your time and experience

Chirag Patel Tamara A Howard Turning that question on its head. I would say that I have found that the
fundamental principles haven't failed me yet regardless of the animal (goldfish to rat to dog, bird or cat even a
tortoise). (I should add I apply them more and more knowingly to my human clients too) I believe that too quickly
and too often we look for something more advanced or complex when the true problem is; there is a problem in
the precise application if the fundamentals principles. (Bob Bailey defines advanced training as the precise
application of the fundamentals and I love that:))

Margery Cavins Oh, be still my heart, Chirag!! Your answer above toTamara!

Chirag Patel Denise its a work in progress:)

Tamara A Howard Chirag


Chirag Patel Think I have had a chance to "speak" with any one who asked a question. If I did miss your
post then please do use a minimal prompt of reposting and then tagging me in it. Thanks to Denise O'Moore for
hosting me:) And thank you to you guys for using your time to ask questions and read the posts, otherwise it
would have been a lonely hour for me:)