Board: "Brideshead Revisited" (1981)

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Sebastian question
by Rainbow123 (Mon Jan 8 2007 15:42:39) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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I hope to get an answer without any nastily phrased replies. I haven't yet gotten
to read the book, but I plan to. I've also tried to read what I can on the web
about this story. I watched the miniseries recently, and I was curious about
Sebastian. They say he was very unhappy. He hates his family, doesn't seem too
fond of being Catholic. If he is meant to be homosexual, is that the cause of his
unhappiness? That is, that he knows that Catholics (particularly fervent
Catholics, as his family is) see it as being a sin? Again, if this is the obvious
interpretation, I'd just like affirmation. Thank you.
Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 13 2007 09:29:34) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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I'd suggest that you read the book.... (not that the series isn't a very good
adaptation but it is bound to have to simplify a bit and the book is Waugh's
unmediated "take" on the Flytes, not the series. IMHO the book makes it clear why
Sebastian is not happy
Re: Sebastian question
by Rainbow123 (Sun Jan 14 2007 14:57:37) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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Thanks. I actually like Sebastian very much, and I think it's so sad what a
decline he has. I wondered just what was the source of his unhappiness, and I am
glad to know there is a way to find out.

Does it also mention why he stops carrying around Aloysius?

Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 20 2007 04:07:29) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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well obviosuly there is a way to find out, Read the book.
Re: Sebastian question
by miz bell (Sun Jan 21 2007 20:12:18) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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I've read the book and just rewatched the series and STILL don't know why he's so
friggin unhappy! I kept waiting for Charles to simply ask him what was troubling
him but he just seems to play the role of passive observer. I was hoping to find
some help on these boards.
Re: Sebastian question
by lisajpothoven (Tue Jan 23 2007 03:32:23) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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There's definitely the guilt about homosexuality (latent or consumated - I don't
think the difference is particularly relevant). There is also the point that Cara
(accurately I think) observes - that he is mourning his lost childhood. He wants
the impossible - to stay a boy forever, to retain innocence. Perhaps he gives up
Aloysius(?) when he gives up hope of that particular dream?
Re: Sebastian question
by gaelicguy (Wed Jan 24 2007 05:07:46) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

UPDATED Wed Jan 24 2007 05:09:53

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I've often wondered if he died in taking care of Kurt. There's no mention of him
at the end of the novel or the miniseries.

Lisajipothoven, I think yours is a very good analysis!

WE ARE THE PRESIDENT! First Lady, Hillary Rotten Clinton

Re: Sebastian question
by Rainbow123 (Thu Jan 25 2007 16:40:12) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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No, Kurt commits suicide in a concentration camp.

Cordelia says something about how he'll work with the monks, and they'll put up
with him. He'll keep drinking, and one day they will find him and he'll be very
ill. That's basically how she sees the end of Sebastian. Quite sad, if you ask me.

Re: Sebastian question

by gaelicguy (Thu Jan 25 2007 17:27:24) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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Yes, I know Kurt commits suicide, Rainbow, but in the last episode, when Charles
goes to see Nanny, she mentions that Julia, Cordelia and Bridey are in the Holy
Land (?), but she never mentions Sebastian, which leads me to think that he had
died. That superb scene with Cordelia and Charles took place quite a few years
before the final episode, as I recall.

I have the series on DVD - it's time I broke the box open and watched the series
again.

"WE ARE THE PRESIDENT!" First Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton

Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Sat Jan 27 2007 03:25:17) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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No, he just loses interest in Aloyusius at soem stage during his friendship with
Chalres and the bear ends up in the back of a drawer somewhere.... Sebastian is
unhappy becuase he is selfish and immature. He wants to be "left aloen" - not to
be bothered by human contact nor by the "demands of his own conscience" as
Waugh/Charles puts it...so as Charles says, since we all have to grow up, his time
of Arcadian happiness is bound to be breif. His problem is that he can't accept
growing up, and taking on adult responsbilities....Since that is the case, in
Waugh's beleif, he cannot be fulfilled becuase we can only be fulfilled by
acceptign adulthood and its responsibilities

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Re: Sebastian question

by fletchy (Fri Feb 2 2007 14:39:12) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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Another, I think, bigger reason for Sebastian's unhappiness than those mentioned
so far is the position that he has been born into. He has inherited a long and
noble history with many aristocratic connections across Europe, therefore many
expectations are placed upon him. His mother uses her power and influence to
control him when he is not seen to be towing the line, enlisting Monsignor Bell
and Mr Samgrass. When he is arrested for drink driving it makes the news
headlines. To some extent, this is still the case with major aristocrats in the
UK.
Sebastian is sweet and sensitive, always a kind word for everyone - he hasn't a
bad bone in his body. He is loved, but generally misunderstood. Sebastian hates
hunting, has no interest in the estate, politics, joining the army or any other
career expected of a Lord. His desire to be left alone is a desire to be free of
the heavy limitations afforded him by his birthright.
Even more influential is the power of the Catholic Church, which is of course
inextricably tied up with his family, and its famous 'Catholic guilt'. Sebastian
does in fact have a vocation, which in other circumstances he might have been more
aware of (perhaps if he had been sent to Stoneyhurst). Far from selfish, he enjoys
helping first Charles, then Kurt and finally the monastery as a janitor. He
punishes himself for his alcoholism by declining ever to return home to a life of
undoubted luxury, even after his mother's death.
Having said all that, I must say that I think that his downwards spiral occurs way
to quickly - he seemingly becomes a confirmed alcoholic over a matter of months.
And it's a little odd that someone so perfectly charming, bright and attractive is
a broken down, alcoholic exile at the age of 23! When he escapes Rex no further
effort is made to bring him home. It seems that he has one visit from Charles and
one from Cordelia in nearly 20 years! Highly unlikely that he would be so
abandoned by his numerous friends and vast family. I think Waugh somewhat over
romanticized this character. Nevertheless, he is a brilliant representation.
Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Sat Feb 3 2007 03:25:05) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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He's extrememly selfish, he doesn't wnant any obligations, not just "not a
career", but he doesn't really wnat friendship unless its on his own terms. Look
at how he ignores Charles during the first Oxford vacation and then manipulates
him into coming to Brideshead when he needs company? he doesn't want to come home
when his mother dies becuase there is nowhere for him to come home to, the rest of
his family are not all that intersted in him, drunks are very tiresome....

he doesn't have numerous friends by the tiem he legs it, he has more or less
dropped all his Oxford friends except Charles and he doesn't want to be embroiled
with his vast Catholic family..... yes he does look after Kurt and that is the
beginning of his regeneration, loving another person and looking after him is the
beginning of wisdom and redemption.....
Re: Sebastian question
by SeanMurphy (Thu Mar 1 2007 03:54:52) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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I think he can't live up to the expectations of himself, such as his duty to the
church, his familiy or how he is meant to behave. so he feels a constant sense of
guilt.

His mother was abandoned by her husband, but she was able to react like a martyr.
She is very placid and restrained outwardly. But she implies that she is very
disapointed in his behaviour. And makes him feel very guilty and that he has let
her down.

When Julia breaks down near the end, she has this image of her mother dying. but
her mother being hurt more by the emotional pain of Julia having an affair with
Rex than the physical pain. Thats the kind of guilt that would hurt Julia forever.

So I think a lot of it is guilt. There is a lot of repressed feelings which

probably makes it worse than if it was expressed. For example Brideshead felt
disapproval that Julia was living in sin, yet never expressed it. Or his mother
being disapointed or feeling pain but never says it.

I think Sebastian wanted to forget about that world. Lose himself in a different
world with different people.

With Kurt, Sebastian feels useful, his simple purpose is to look after Kurt and
make sure he is ok.

It is not as complicated as fulfilling his duty to the church, etiquette and his
familiy. He doesn't feel a failure.

Re: Sebastian question

by vernors-2 (Wed Apr 4 2007 08:16:52) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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Here's my take on this question. Sebastian, more than any of the Flytes, is truly
religious, and loves being a Catholic. In a sense, he is truly a Catholic in how
he thinks and feels. However, his Chruch and family condemns him as a sinner
because he is gay. He is living a contradiction, and the longer that goes on, the
worse he feels. He cannot give up his religion like his father did, and he is
haunted by the religious naivete of Cordelia, perhaps the one family member he
truly loves. He cannot reconcile his feelings, and so, he's caught in an endless
loop. He escapes through drinking, and then literally escapes by moving to
Morrocco, as far away as he can get from his problems.
Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Wed Apr 4 2007 09:04:56) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Here's my take on this question. Sebastian, more than any of the Flytes, is truly
religious, and loves being a Catholic.

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I see no evidence of Sebastian being very religious... he refers to himslef as

"half pagan" when at college and while at that stage he IS clealry not totally
uninterested in his religion, he's hardly very passionate about it either. Bridey
and Cordeila are the "devout" ones.....
Re: Sebastian question
by vernors-2 (Wed Apr 4 2007 10:56:58) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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Outwardly, I agree with you, but I think inwardly Sebastian is quite religious.
Re: Sebastian question
by gduch2001 (Tue May 29 2007 03:12:42) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

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That is wonderfully logical!