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SW Radio Africas Violet Gonda speaks to Raymond Majongwe, general secretary of
the Progressive Teachers Union about the ongoing strike action by their members:


Broadcast February 20, 2009
Violet Gonda: Raymond Majongwe, the General Secretary of the Progressive
Teachers Union of Zimbabwe is my guest on the programme Hot Seat. Now
teachers have come under fire for refusing to return to work and for demanding
salary hikes pegged at 2 300 US dollars. Raymond, what is your basis of
demanding 2 300 US dollars a month?
Raymond Majongwe: We are not asking for $2,300 from nowhere. We have done a
thorough scientific analysis of the situation obtaining in Zimbabwe. Its quite clear that
its only in Zimbabwe that the rand and the US dollar have been humbled by inflation
and its clear for everybody to see that what 1,000 American dollars can buy in America,
you need 3,000 in Zimbabwe. What 1,000 rands can buy in South Africa you need 3 to
4 000 in Zimbabwe. We are very clear about that. And we did a clear scientific analysis
of the situation obtaining in the country.
We also did a comparative analysis of what civil servants in the region are earning. I
think the lowest paid civil servants in the world are found in Zimbabwe and the lowest
paid teachers in the whole world are found in Zimbabwe.
As of January 2009, teachers were paid Z$31 trillion. Z$31 trillion at that time was
translating to exactly 2 rands. How would anybody expect a man or a woman with a
family with rentals and health to take care of, to be paid 2 rands and be expected to be
a patriotic citizen?
I think it would be naive for any person to simply say we must keep quiet when we are
being oppressed right in our eyes.
GONDA: What does it cost to have one student in a classroom these days?
MAJONGWE: Apparently the situation is now very different. I would be lying if I would
tell you anything because the situation that obtains is that we now have so many
different schools. In the past it would have been very easy for somebody to say that this
is the amount that government or somebody should spend on education, but we have
gotten to a point where we have very poor people and we have very rich people.
These people live in one corner of the country and the other in the other corner. One
being going to a private school with everything that you can imagine and one who is
going to a school in Gokwe where there is not even a building to talk about, and that is
exactly the dilemma that one has if one is going to try to put a monetary value to any
of these processes.
As far as we are concerned, the government would stand up and put a figure but we are
simply saying these are conservative figures, we really need to go back to basics and
factor in everything because it is going to be very difficult for anybody to come up and
say anything now because nobody knows anything. There is no school that is
functioning especially in the government set up so its very difficult for anybody to come
up with a figure and say so much.
GONDA: The government says it has no money and it has offered to give
teachers and other civil servants 100 US dollars a month. Now there are other
people who would say you are being paid from tax money and there is no return.
In other words you are not producing something that is sold at the end of the month that is an
investment with no return until that student you are teaching actually graduates. So how realistic
is your demand given that there is no immediate return?
MAJONGWE: (chuckles) We are not making these demands from the blue. I would tell
you because we have a reason why we are saying this. Teachers in 1980, when
Mugabe took over government, could afford to buy a house, could afford to buy a car,
could afford to go on holiday, could send all their siblings children to school and I will
tell you for instance about me.
Eight children were born to my mother and my father; all of us went to boarding schools,
my father was just a mere headmaster, my mother just a mere teacher. We were able to
go to school, real schools where we went to proper boarding schools. All of the eight
siblings of mine (were sucessfully educated), but now one teacher cannot even send
their only one child to pre-school.
This is the situation where we are at and I think we must make it very clear without any
ambiguity that the government ran-down the institution of education, deliberately
disarticulated us, took us off our feet, labelled us enemies of the State and made us
paupers. And we are saying as citizens we deserve better. We are also taxpayers. We
work, we are employees of the government. Many a time people forget that.
The intellect that they exude wherever they are going to be moving around it is a
product of our sweat. When Mugabe goes out to the UN and everywhere saying he
leads a country with the highest literacy rate he is basically referring to what we have
done as teachers and people want to suddenly say, you dont manufacture anything. All
these doctors you see, all these people, the brain drain we are talking about, those are
our direct products. It is a silent production but indeed we have produced people with
functional literacy and we must be rewarded for it.
GONDA: But Raymond, I still go back to the same question, how realistic are your
demands given the current political and economic situation? In fact if I may add
to that, if we are to compare what is happening in the private school and you
can correct me if Im wrong teachers in private schools are on a pay scale
supported by revenues that actually support the schools such as levies, and so
parents with kids in private schools are actually paying for their children to be
taught.
Is it not the case that to some extent right now, the only way for you to actually
get such payments is if Zimbabweans can pay a higher income tax or property tax
but then on the other hand, given the current situation dont you think your
demands cannot be in isolation of some of these external factors?
MAJONGWE: Yes we have a very scientific reason as to why we are saying what we
are saying. Teachers in Zimbabwe are not paid in isolation. You look at what is
happening in South Africa, there are private schools in South Africa, there are private
schools in Zambia and the teachers there are well paid. You look at government
institutions in Mozambique, in Namibia and Botswana, South Africa and Lesotho,
teachers are being paid an average of not less than nine thousand rand, in the region.
And can you honestly stand up and say because we are in Zimbabwe, we have an
economy that is on its knees, therefore we cannot ask for so much?
I think that the fact that the government had the audacity to pay us 2 rands, yet we see
lavish spending and extravagant spending by government aided by the irresponsible
Reserve Bank governor, we have a legitimate reason to stand up and say we should not
accept anything less than what we are asking for. We see a lot of lavish expenditure,
even now Mugabe is about to commemorate his birthday and there is a lot of lavish
spending there. You cannot expect us therefore to say we must stomach and pretend
that we dont see all this expenditure.
We must stand up and say while we are having all these challenges, we also need to
survive, we have families to look after, we have children to send to school. We know for
a fact that we were being told that the diamonds being mined at Chiadzwa and the
Reserve Bank governor was on national television saying the country was being
haemorrhaged out of 1.7 billion US dollars a month. And the government took over
those mines. What is happening to the money that is coming from there? We know that
we dont have a manufacturing industry that is working, but who are the culprits? It is
the same government who took over the companies that they cant even run.
So we are simply saying we are asking what we are worth. We know that as citizens
and as teachers we also pay tax, we also want to be paid meaningful salaries and pay
the tax and be citizens. We cant honestly stand up and say were citizens and
ultimately exist in a welfare situation where we survive on charity, no!
In 1980 to 1988, teachers were able to survive. In 1988 to 1996 teachers were almost
living normal lives, they could send their children to school, they could afford holidays,
they could afford cars, they could afford, but after 1999, things went from bad to worse.
Teachers were labelled enemies of the State, we were being punished! Salaries
stopped coming, they became meaningless and so we are simply saying we want to be
paid.
Even those you are talking about in the private schools, they are actually being
underpaid because a lot of these private schools are making a killing! A lot of these
private schools that are run by politicians and the churches are exploiting people and
that must come to an end because we must start dictating the pace as the workers.
Even though it is correct that teachers the world over are not the best paid of workers,
we are simply saying because we know that we are citizens and we observe all these
things that are on the table, we must also be enjoying from the same cake that
everybody else is enjoying.
GONDA: And you are saying that your compatriots in the Diaspora earn so much
and you want that but is the comparison realistic given the gradual slide of the
Zimbabwean education system?
MAJONGWE: It is. Teachers in Zimbabwe are as good as teachers anywhere else in
the world. In fact every other school in South Africa has a Zimbabwean teacher. Every
other school in Namibia, name it in the region, because of the quality of the teachers
that are coming from here. And none the less, we are simply saying as teachers in
Zimbabwe, we must be paid so that we dont go to those areas. We are patriotic
citizens; we want to work in our country, just like the doctors, just like the nurses, just
like the engineers.
I think it is incumbent upon this new government to make sure that they correct this
anomaly once and for all where the teachers in Zimbabwe earn competitive salaries.
And that is the only way we then can be able to keep our education standard at the
apex where it has always been. And I think that if anybody wants to challenge me on
this one I will put my head on the block.
Zimbabwean teachers are the best, they are the best trained and we want to deliver.
This is why you are honestly going to find out that, talk to any person from any
university in South Africa, they will tell you that when they have students from
Zimbabwe, they know that that year they will have quality education because we are
talking of people who have been groomed very well from the background upwards. Now
when we got to a stage where we are now, where even the people who are in our
universities, in our teachers colleges are just the riff-raff, people who are coming from
anywhere, then we are sacrificing the same education that we want to talk about.
GONDA: But right now children are also suffering because theyre not being
taught and dont you think by refusing to go to work and refusing this starter
pack of 100 US dollars, this will actually shut down the education system and
wont this contribute to undermining democracy?
MAJONGWE: The question we ask are we in a normal environment? I think the
answer is no. Are teachers earning good salaries? We say no. Do teachers have to lead
normal lives? We say yes. How do they lead these normal lives? They must get food,
they must dress properly, and they must be able to stay in a proper housing. And how
else is that going to be done if they put their head on the block and say we must be
paid reasonable and meaningful salaries. Then that can happen. We are in a war
situation.
Apparently the other challenge that we actually observe, the government and the
(former) Minister Chigwedere and his Permanent Secretary Dr Mahere were not
engaging people, we obviously were not meeting them unlike the situation where the
first day that the Prime Minister took office, we got a call to meet the Prime Minister.
Two days down the line we were able to meet the Minister and we think that if David
Coltart the current Minister of Education had been with the Ministry a long time ago, the
Ministry would not be where it is today.
We are talking of somebody who is accommodative, somebody who will listen to what
you are saying and somebody who will acknowledge that they have made mistakes. Not
the character of Chigwedere who knows that when they were doing, when they were at
their best in terms of destruction they still told the world that our education was at the
top. When they were destroying and lacerating ZIMSEC into pieces they just said
everything was normal. Now the results are not yet out from way back as June 2008
they still want to continue and say everything is normal. People who want to stand up
and say schools in Zimbabwe are open when we know they are not.
Once the process of dialoguing and consultation becomes the key principal we are likely
to go to Canaan. I think that the fact that we have been engaged, we have been
convinced that the government that took over power under Morgan Tsvangirai took
empty coffers. We are now appreciating and on Monday morning at 9 oclock we are
going to make a press statement to the country. We are calling all teachers to go back
to their work stations and we are simply saying the term must now start in earnest
because we are saying Zimbabwe is our country. These children you talk about are our
children, they are our sisters, our hearts bleed when we see them being thrown into the
abyss of abject poverty because of selfish politicians of the nature of Chigwedere and
company.
I think time has come for us to go forward to engage one another and have the process
of dialogue. But we must also make it very clear that we are going back with a heavy
heart because we want to salvage something for these kids and for our country. And we
will go back to the trenches once that situation is not addressed to our satisfaction.
I must also be very clear here some of our teachers shot us in the foot. They are the
ones who went back to teach in these schools and were being paid US$10. So the
government is now saying if your members went back to be paid 10 dollars why are you
refusing to come back because we are now paying you 100 US dollars? I think we must
also make sure that we dont exonerate our members from such irresponsible trade
union behaviour but nonetheless they are our members, well take them on board and
well try and make sure that we address the situation once and for all.
For the record we are saying there are other demands that the Ministry under David
Coltart has promised that theyll look into and we are quite happy with the way David
Coltart has handled our presentations to him so far.
GONDA: This is a sudden u-turn. So now you are going back to work and is it
because of your meeting with the new Education Minister David Coltart?
MAJONGWE: Its not just because of the meeting, its because of the meeting that we
have had with the Prime Minister, a meeting we had with the Minister and we have also
been consulting our membership, we have also been consulting other stakeholders
because we also want public opinion on our side, we want to move with the people. I
think we have made our point. I think the lesson that every revolutionary has been
taught when you score and declare victories dont push them too far because
ultimately you then lose relevance. We have made our point and we are simply saying
to the new government we are watching and watching closely.
We want them to look at the issues around the way the Ministry is governed, the
teachers conditions of service, political violence and many other issues around even
the inclusion of the Progressive Teachers Union of Zimbabwe as a relevant stakeholder
because you will know and you will understand that under the Zanu-PF regime, PTUZ
was not invited at all these government education ministry meetings. It was only ZIMTA
who were attending and we honestly believe that its actually going to be better for us
because we will then be able to communicate our message and be able to be
understood and to be heard.
I think once that is done, that will then give us a road on which to trod on, considering
that we are citizens of this country, we want things to work, we want normalcy to return,
we want donors to come back and we are simply saying we must give the parents of
these children value for money in terms of what we will be delivering in our schools.
GONDA: So what did Mr Tsvangirai and Mr Coltart say on the issues of your
demands and what reforms did they say theyre willing to adopt to ensure the
success of the education system?
MAJONGWE: I might not be able to give you these because it will be very unfair but I
will basically say that the demands that we are making are such that those teachers
who left and went away for a coterie of reasons, they must come back into the
profession, no questions asked. The people who basically lost property and a lot of
other things must also be in line for compensation. We are also saying as a trade union
we want to see certain things that are going to be positive, the issues around housing
as retention packages.
Teachers must come back and they must be at least be assured that they will be able to
get a (housing) stand, because the major reason why teachers were working in
Zimbabwe since 1980 is not that we were getting the best of salaries but there was just
this reassurance that things would happen. One day you could own a house, one day
you could own a car and all that hope has been lost.
This is why we are saying we must go back, restore the confidence, make sure every
other citizen feels part and parcel of the process, then we will move forward together,
but nonetheless, we are very clear and we will be very wary, we will be watching and
looking and monitoring the progress closely. We are not just going to give these guys an
open cheque like what we did with many others, of these destructive Ministers who
worked this Ministry.
We want to be involved at every other right and left turn that the Ministry is going to
take. We want to know who is being appointed in the Ministry, where and why, what are
their qualifications. We want to see a clear de-politicisation of the Ministry in terms of
the head office, in terms of the provinces as well as headmasters.
e have scenarios where a lot of these headmasters who are in our schools are mere
political appointees. People who are being appointed to be EOs (Education Officers)
with the agenda of doing nothing besides to politically silence the progressive voices in
our schools and I think time has come for us to say let us bury the hatchet and let the
best people take over leadership and this country will go back to where it has always
been.
GONDA: How many teachers are actually left in Zimbabwe right now and is it
known how many left this country?
MAJONGWE: This is one other reason why we are simply saying schools must open
again. We now dont know how many teachers we have so we are simply saying for
progress sake let every person go to where they should be. We do a head count and we
see how many teachers we need.
For the record, Ill tell you that according to the Ministrys statistics they are saying we
have 80,000 teachers left in the country. At PTUZ we maintain that there are 7, 000
teachers and of the 70,000, 40,000 are non-qualified teachers. These are people who
have been brought in as relief teachers, some of them as spies, and some of them just
as gap fillers.
And we are simply saying it is quite sad we are talking of having 115,000 teachers in
2005, 2006 and we have gone down to 80,000, which I think is a government
conservative figure because we are convinced the country has the capacity to produce
5 to 6 000 teachers a year and it is going to take us 6 to 7 years to ultimately go to our
optimum that is if these teachers who are in the region are not going to come back.
But I am confident because we are having a lot of people who are asking and they are
making enquiries and they want to come back. Just like our organisation called PTUZ-
South Africa they are also making enquiries and we are making an effort to submit their
letter and their concerns of teachers in South Africa to the Minister on Monday at 9
oclock when we meet him.
But I think the bottom line has to be made, that teachers want to come back but it will be
three, four, five years before we get to our optimum number that we want and ultimately
be able to get the glamour we have always had. Because we are talking of schools that
dont have teachers, that dont have desks, that dont have window panes, that dont
have doors. The doors were being taken off the walls by the war veterans, they were
making coffins out of them, they were taking window panes and taking them to their
houses and they were burning desks.
It is quite sad and my heart bleeds when I look back to say why did this destruction
happen? Because somebody or the Minister of Education Chigwedere did not have the
guts to stand up to the people who were moving around destroying our schools
wantonly and in a barbaric manner what happened in the years from 2002.
GONDA: So does this mean that when you say you are going back youre actually
accepting the 100 US dollars that is being offered or youve been offered more
since your meeting with Mr Coltart and Mr Tsvangirai?
MAJONGWE: The reason why we are saying we are going back is we want to get to
the basics first, we want to know how many teachers we have, because if we are going
to get any assistance from anybody they will ask you how many teachers we have, how
many teachers do you have and what are we going to say? We dont know because
even at the Ministry level there are a lot of ghost teachers that are being paid through
the Ministry and I think we must stop that because we have reason to believe that there
are people down the line who are basically lining their pockets.
GONDA: Are you going to be offered more than the 100 US dollars or are you
going to take what is being offered right now?
MAJONGWE: We are going to take what has been offered now but that doesnt stop us
from demanding more. For the record, the government has been telling us that they are
going to be paying us the US dollar component and another Zimbabwean dollar
component which is meaningless because the newspaper, the Financial Gazette costs
Z$1,000 dollars re-valued but the money that was put into teachers accounts is 600
dollars.
So these are some of the things that we are obviously saying we dont accept. But we
are just giving them the benefit of doubt. We have a new Finance Minister, we have a
new Prime Minister, we have a new Minister of Education, we want to give them the
chance and basically help them fill up their coffers before some of the money starts
trickling to the teachers and other civil servants. We have the right to build Zimbabwe
together again.
GONDA: So will teachers become more accountable and accept performance
standards if awarded higher salaries?
MAJONGWE: I think any normal person will concede that reality. A lot of the teachers
have not been working for a long time, we need a few months to adjust, but let me
assure you, we have the best in terms of our teachers and we will produce and deliver.
And we want to assure all the parents and all the school children that once the term
starts at a date that we will announce on Monday we are going to give our best shot and
we want to just say education will return to normalcy and we are going to provide quality
education to our children.
GONDA: Was your main concern the removal of Zanu PF or better work
conditions or both and also what is your position now that Mugabe is still in
power?
MAJONGWE: Apparently I must state categorically clear that Id always maintained that
it was going to be very difficult to remove Mugabe from power completely and even if he
goes, hes going to leave a lot of remnants in terms of people who will be Mugabe-like.
But the bottom line is with one foot on the pitch it is also good because the progressive
democratic forces of Zimbabwe will now be involved in everything. It is unfortunate that
it might take time but having stomached Mugabe for 28 years why cant we then be
ready to work with him for a few years?
One thing that is very clear is Mugabe is 85 and why would we then doubt that the man
is no longer at his best, the man is finished, the man is not as dynamic and as
charismatic as he was and we are simply saying if the MDC is clear about what they
want to achieve they will get it anyway because if the Zimbabweans were able to wait
for 28 years, why cant they wait for 28 months, why cant they wait for 28 days, for 28
hours, 26 minutes, 26 seconds. We will be able to get to a point where Mugabe will
leave and he will leave very soon.
GONDA: You were being perceived as being treacherous, now is it one of the
reasons why you have decided to go back to work because of the outcry?
MAJONGWE: No apparently not. No we are simply saying we have fought and we have
won. We wanted a new Minister, some of the things that we wanted have happened.
We wanted a new Minister of Education, we wanted a new thinking at the top of
government, we wanted new concessions and all these are being given so we are
simply saying the strike was never going to go to perpetuity. The strike was going to end
at one point. And the good thing is basically that teachers who earned 2 rands in
January are getting an opportunity to earn 1,000 rand this month, so we are simply
saying we have at least moved, we dont agree with what they have been paid but we
are saying lets move on. We cant continue fighting otherwise we become irrelevant.
We also are taking serious consideration of what our members are saying. Our
members are saying we have fought, we have won, lets put this victory in our bag and
we look for another victory. Well be going back to the trenches. If this new government
is not going to take serious our consideration, we will go back to the trenches in March.
Theres no problem, we still have our arsenal, we still have our people, we still have our
generals and we still have our high command. We are ready to go back to the trenches
as and when the situation obtains for us to go to the bush.
GONDA: Thank you very much Raymond Majongwe.
MAJONGWE: Thank you.
Comments and feedback can be emailed to violet@swradioafrica.com