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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

CENTRAL DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

SPRINGFIELD DIVISION

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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

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Plaintiff, )
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-vs)
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LEON DINGLE, JR.,
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KARIN DINGLE
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Defendants. )

NO. 12-30098

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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BEFORE THE HONORABLE RICHARD MILLS

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U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE

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December 8, 2014

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A P P E A R A N C E S:

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FOR PLAINTIFF:

Mr. Timothy A. Bass

Mr. Eric Long

FOR DEFENDANT LEON DINGLE:

Mr. Edward Genson

Ms. Blaire Dalton

FOR DEFENDANT KARIN DINGLE:

Mr. Ronald J. Clark

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COURT REPORTER:

Ms. Dorothy J. Hart, CSR, RPR

Illinois CSR No. 084-001390

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INDEX

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WITNESS

Eric Whitaker

PAGE

Direct Examination by Mr. Bass

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EXHIBITS

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EXHIBIT
Government Group Exhibit 1

IDENTIFIED
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THE COURT:

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Good afternoon, everyone.

All right.

The record may show that

the jury is not in the courtroom, but we have two

tables full of counsel and all ready to proceed.

All right.

MR. BASS:

Mr. Bass.
Your Honor, we advised Your

Honor's clerk before you took the bench that there

was a development which we wished to advise the

10

Court of, and so if I may be permitted to relay

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that to Your Honor.

12

THE COURT:

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MR. BASS:

Talk to me.
Your Honor, as you recall,

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the Government filed a motion in limine asking for

15

permission to use leading questions on direct

16

examination of a witness.

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THE COURT:

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MR. BASS:

Indeed.
And you allowed counsel for

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the Defendants to respond, file a written response,

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and I believe it was on last Wednesday afternoon is

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when Your Honor entered an order granting the

22

motion in part but concluding that Your Honor

23

wished to hear testimony from that witness directly

24

as part of an offer of proof.

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THE COURT:

Correct.

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MR. BASS:

That was last Wednesday.

If

Your Honor further recalls that at the end of the

day on Wednesday we discussed tentatively when we

might have that offer of proof hearing and we

discussed that it might be Friday afternoon, but we

were going to table the issue and discuss it

further on Thursday morning.

My recollection is that we did discuss

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it further on Thursday morning and concluded that

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we would recess early on Friday, which we did,

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allow for the continuation of the compilation of

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the exhibits with Madam Clerk, not have court on

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Monday, and conduct the hearing at 2:00 on Monday

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afternoon.

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-- I believe on Thursday.

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morning is when we -- is when we agreed that that's

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what we would do.

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That's what we concluded on -- at the

I believe Thursday

Now, prior to that time, Your Honor,

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prior to last Thursday, the situation with respect

20

to Dr. Whitaker was as represented in the

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Government's motion.

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to meet with him pursuant to the proffer agreement

23

that's now of record and those requests were

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declined all the way up until just prior to trial

25

in which the request was expressly declined by

We had made repeated requests

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counsel for Dr. Whitaker.

That situation remained unchanged up

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until Friday afternoon.

After we concluded --

after we decided on Thursday that we would recess

today and have this hearing today, I communicated

with counsel for Dr. Whitaker that -- as to the

scheduling, that the -- I'd tentatively indicated

to him that we might need Dr. Whitaker's testimony

on Friday.

He responded that -- inquired whether

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or not it would be possible to hold the hearing on

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Monday because of his schedule and Dr. Whitaker's

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schedule, and that inquiry eventually became moot

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because we ultimately decided that we would have

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the hearing today.

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I spoke with counsel for Dr. Whitaker,

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Mr. Hockeimer, on Thursday evening, I believe, and

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I advised him that the hearing would be -- we were

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able to accommodate his request and that we would

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be having the hearing this afternoon.

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-- in substance, the nature of my conversation with

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counsel for Dr. Whitaker as of the end of the day

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on Thursday.

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That was the

We held court Friday until 1 p.m.

began at 10 and concluded at 1.
THE COURT:

Recessed the jury.

We

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MR. BASS:

Yes.

And as of 1 p.m. when

we recessed, the situation was still the same as

far as Dr. Whitaker's continued refusal to meet

with the Government.

On Friday afternoon I received an

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e-mail from counsel for Dr. Whitaker asking if I

would give him a call.

afternoon, early evening Friday.

5 p.m.

I did so on the late

I believe it was

And I spoke with Mr. Hockeimer and it was

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at that time that Mr. Hockeimer asked -- advised

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the Government that Dr. Whitaker would be willing

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to meet with the Government and would be willing to

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do so on Monday morning, and he asked if we would

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be agreeable to do that.
Now, that put the Government in a

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situation of knowing that we had broke -- we had

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broke for the day with Your Honor.

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-- following the close of business leading to the

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weekend.

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would not deny Dr. Whitaker the opportunity to meet

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with us if he requested.

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asking for for some time.

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circumstances under which that request was made,

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given that the motion is still pending before Your

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Honor, that Your Honor had ruled that you wished to

This was at the

My response to Mr. Hockeimer was that we

That's what we had been

But because of the

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hear from Dr. Whitaker directly, that we would have

an obligation, constitutional and statutory, to

disclose any statement of Dr. Whitaker to the

Government to counsel for the Defendants.

given all of that, I advised Mr. Hockeimer that

although we would be willing -- we would be

agreeable to meeting with Dr. Whitaker, but the

only circumstances under which we could practically

comply with our constitutional and statutory

And

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obligation was to record that meeting, both -- and

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so that's what was advised to Mr. Hockeimer.

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THE COURT:

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MR. BASS:

By video?
Well, I advised him that it

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would have to be -- the meeting would have to be

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recorded.

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I further was asked by Mr. Hockeimer if

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the meeting with the Government this morning would

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substitute for the need for this hearing and the

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Government's continued position in its motion.

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my response was that I could not predict in advance

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what impact a meeting that had not yet occurred

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could have on our position in a hearing which also

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had not yet occurred.

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THE COURT:

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MR. BASS:

And

That sounds logical.

But that we would give fair

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consideration after the conclusion of the meeting

as to whether or not this hearing needs to proceed.

So on -- Mr. Hockeimer advised me that

he would consult with his client and would confirm

whether or not such a meeting continued to be

requested over the weekend.

On Friday I spoke -- I called

Mr. Genson and I -- and Mr. Clark.

Friday I spoke with Mr. Genson.

I believe on

I know I spoke

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with Mr. Clark -- he can correct me if I'm wrong,

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but sometime over the -- either Friday or over the

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weekend I spoke with Mr. Clark and advised both of

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them of what I just advised Your Honor.

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On Sunday, after having not heard from

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Mr. Hockeimer, I e-mailed him and asked him --

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recounted our conversation and the circumstances

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under which the Government would be agreeable to

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such a meeting, including the recording, and his

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response to me yesterday afternoon was that they --

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they being Mr. Hockeimer and Dr. Whitaker wished to

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meet with the Government this morning and that we

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would meet at 10:15 this morning.

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that to counsel for the Defendants.

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25

I then relayed

I further delivered to Mr. Genson

courtesy copies of e-mails and documents that the

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Government might use in questioning Dr. Whitaker

yesterday evening and I also provided by e-mail to

Mr. Clark certain e-mails that related to Karin

Dingle and spoke with him directly and advised him

that I was doing so.

So that is the state of events as of

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last evening.

This morning at 10:15 we did -- myself

and Inspector Demczak and other representatives of

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the Government met with Mr. Hockeimer and Dr.

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Whitaker at our office, and we conducted that

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interview and it was recorded.

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both audio and video.

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hour and a half.

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of the fact that it occurred this morning and

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because we knew that we would immediately have to

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take steps to make copies of that recording so that

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we could provide those -- file them of -- file it

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of record with Your Honor and also provide copies

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to counsel for the Defendants.

It was recorded

It occurred over about an

We were limited in time because

So that's where we are presently, Your

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Honor.

We do wish to -- I've advised Mr. -- all

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parties that it's the Government's view that we

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need to proceed with this hearing.

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ruled that he wished to hear from this witness

Your Honor

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directly before ruling.

And what I would propose

that we do is that we publish -- proceed with

filing of record the recording, we publish that so

that Your Honor can hear from Dr. Whitaker and

counsel for both Defendants can review that

recording as well, and then at the end of that

publication Your Honor can decide whether or not he

wished to hear further testimony, live testimony

from Dr. Whitaker -- he's here and available -- or

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whether counsel for the Defendants wish to ask any

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questions.
So that is the state of the events and

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what I would propose that we do, that we proceed

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with this hearing and that our offer of proof,

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rather than orally -- my orally recounting for you

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what took place in the interview, that we publish

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the interview, which is the statement of the

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witness himself, which is what Your Honor wished to

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observe, and then at the conclusion of that

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publication Your Honor decide, counsel decide

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whether they wish to have further live testimony at

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that point.

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and the state of the record and how we would

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propose to proceed.

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So that's the development, Your Honor,

THE COURT:

All right.

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MS. DALTON:

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Good afternoon, Your

Honor.

THE COURT:

MS. DALTON:

Ms. Dalton.
Your Honor, as of this

moment we still have not been able to review that

tape that was made of the recording of the

interview of Dr. Whitaker.

opportunity to be able to review that tape before

it is played -- before Your Honor even decides

We would ask for an

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whether it should be played in open court.

We have

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the right to have an opportunity to have some

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notice of any witness's statement, recorded or not.

In addition, this isn't just a

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witness's statement, as the Government has told

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you.

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and Mr. Demczak and any other agent that was part

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of that interview, and it is not just Dr.

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Whitaker's statement.

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It is also the statements of both Mr. Bass

Playing that recorded statement in open

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court would not only be a prior inconsistent

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statement of Dr. Whitaker, but it would also be

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part of an ex parte communication that none of the

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defense counsels were part of and has not been

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subject to any cross-examination.

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the opportunity to not only review the tape prior

We should have

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to it being played but then to make any additional

objections of it being presented in open court.

Rather than have Your Honor make his own

independent decision based on how Dr. Whitaker

testifies in open court live testimony rather than

a statement that was made not under oath, that was

made in addition to other statements included

within the same video that would not just be Dr.

Whitaker's live testimony, it would include other

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people's statements as well.

We have a right to have sufficient

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notice.

And we did receive notice that there was

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going to be this meeting, but we do have the right

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to review that video in total, and we haven't even

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been able to review a minute of it.

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it's about an hour and a half.

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the right to be able to review that video

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independent of it being played in open court and

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that being our first impression of what that tape

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contains.

And apparently

And we'd ask for

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Other than that, Your Honor, we'd also

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object to any publishing of the tape in the docket

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for the same reasons.

Thank you.

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THE COURT:

Thank you, Ms. Dalton.

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All right, Mr. Bass -- here we go

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again.

Mr. Clark?
MR. CLARK:

No, I have nothing.

I have

nothing to add to that, other than to say I haven't

seen it.

and things like that.

us not seeing it, but there's been some technical

issues that they're trying to work out.

haven't seen it.

But then we've had some technical issues

I'm not blaming anyone for

THE COURT:

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Mr. Bass.

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MR. BASS:

All right.

But no, we

Thank you.

Your Honor, as Ms. Dalton

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indicated, the recording is about an hour and a

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half.

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statement of Dr. Whitaker.

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and by Inspector Demczak are not statements.

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They're certainly not statements of any witness.

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The only statement on that recording is the

The questions by myself

Now, despite what Ms. Dalton has said,

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the Defendants have no right to review this

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recording before we proceed with this hearing.

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I indicated, we -- we could proceed by way of an

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offer of proof orally or I could submit a written

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offer of proof, but Your Honor has indicated he

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wished to review this witness directly.

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proceed with calling Dr. Whitaker and presenting

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the live testimony.

As

We could

And obviously, there's no way

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to know what the live testimony is until it's

presented.
Now, at the conclusion of Dr.

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Whitaker's direct examination, then the Defendants

would have, under the Jencks Act, 18 USC 3500, the

statement of the witness upon conclusion of direct

examination.

Government does not strictly enforce that -- that

statutory provision, but that's the right of the

Now, as Your Honor knows, the

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defendant.

The right of the defendant is to have a

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statement of the witness upon conclusion of the

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direct examination of the witness.

All that we're proposing to do is, in

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lieu of proceeding with the live testimony, present

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the statement of the witness.

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conclusion of that statement of the witness, then

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counsel can decide and Your Honor can decide if

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either Your Honor or the Defendants wish to call

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Dr. Whitaker -- the Government to call Dr.

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Whitaker.

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And at the

We, frankly, have some additional

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questions we would like to ask Dr. Whitaker, but

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given the limited -- limitations of time, we were

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unable to do so.

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or not counsel for the Defendants or whether Your

But that's secondary to whether

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Honor wished to hear any additional live testimony.

What's not appropriate is to delay the

live testimony, delay the filing of the recording,

and to have no public -- not to proceed on this

public hearing.

this hearing is part of a public trial and we're

going to proceed.

Your Honor has already ruled that

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

Sure.
So all that the Government

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is suggesting is that we proceed -- we proceed with

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disclosing the statement of the witness before the

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witness has testified on direct examination as the

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method of presenting our offer of proof.

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all we're proposing that we do.

MS. DALTON:

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That's

If I may briefly respond,

Your Honor.

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THE COURT:

Yes, one last bite.

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MS. DALTON:

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Your Honor, in the last 30 or so years,

Thank you.

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the courts have not been following the Jencks Act

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as it's been written that after a witness -- that

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only after a witness is finished testifying on

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direct that only then would the defense counsel be

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able to get any copies of any statements or reports

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that involve that witness.

Before we can make any

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foundational objections or anything in addition to

that, we have the right to review the video in and

of itself in its entirety before it's played in

front of this Court or before we can really make

any substantive objections of why it should not be

played in open court, which we would also have the

right to do.

we have the opportunity to review it.

Your Honor, we simply just ask that

The fact that it happened this morning

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and that the hearing was supposed to happen today

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is of no cause.

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recording had been produced at 2:00 -- which we

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still do not have a copy.

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still be objecting to proceeding with the live

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testimony because we would have a right to review

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the recording that was made just this morning, a

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recording that was not made under oath, a recording

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that would be just the same as introducing a police

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report or an agent's report of a statement that was

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made by Dr. Whitaker to agents.

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The live testimony -- even if this

Even if it had, we would

For those reasons and the reasons I

previously made, we would object, Your Honor.
THE COURT:

Well, this is the beginning

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of the seventh week of this trial, and we have had

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delays, and we have had thousands and thousands of

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pieces of paper and documents and exhibits, and

we're not even ready yet with all of the exhibits

or ready to proceed to the end of the trial.

jury was told that it would only be about a two- or

three-week jury when we started and now we're in

the seventh week.

rights have to be preserved, but we don't operate

in a vacuum.

didn't even think that we'd have the jury at

So what's a mother to do?

This

But

And we're coming up on Christmas.

We

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Thanksgiving and now it's going to be Christmas.

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So we've got to move.

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limbo and try new thoughts in criminal law and

13

procedure as to what to do and so forth and so on.

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I think the only fair thing to do here

We can't just sit here in

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is that I am not going to look at the video and the

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video isn't going to utilized.

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here, call him, put him on the stand, and let's

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move.

That simple.

And Dr. Whitaker is

That's the ruling.

Call him.

ERIC WHITAKER,

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of lawful age, produced, sworn, and examined on

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behalf of the Government, testifies and says:

THE COURT:

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DIRECT EXAMINATION

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Right up here, Doctor.

QUESTIONS BY MR. BASS:

Q.

Sir, could you tell us your name,

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please?
A.

Eric Whitaker.

Q.

Please do.

A.

Eric Whitaker.

Q.

Mr. Whitaker, are you employed?

A.

Yes.

Q.

How so?

A.

I'm self-employed.

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Q.

As what?

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A.

As a consultant.

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Q.

Are you a medical doctor?

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A.

That I am.

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Q.

When did you graduate from medical

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A.

1993.

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Q.

And do you have any degrees besides a

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3

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Could I have one second

to --

school?

medical degree?
A.

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I have a master's in public health and

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a bachelor's of art in chemistry and I have half of

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an MBA.

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23

Q.

You said that you're self-employed as a

consultant; is that right?

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A.

That's correct.

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Q.

Is that on your own or is that

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affiliated with some firm?

A.

No.

Q.

What is the name of that firm?

A.

TWG Partners, LLC.

Q.

Are you married?

A.

I am.

Q.

What is your wife's name?

A.

Cheryl.

Q.

And is Mrs. Whitaker also a medical

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A.

She is.

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Q.

And is she employed?

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A.

She's the head of a company -- or,

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I have my own consulting firm.

doctor?

actually, head of two companies, actually.

Q.

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What is -- what are the names of the

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companies that Dr. Cheryl Whitaker is employed

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with?

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A.

She is the CEO of Whitaker Kinne, which

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is a boutique healthcare consulting group, and also

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the chair and CEO of NextLevel Health Partners.

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22

Q.

The first firm, its name is Whitaker

Kinne; is that right?

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A.

Uh-huh.

24

Q.

You have to answer out loud.

25

A.

Yes.

I'm sorry.

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Q.

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Does that firm have any contracts with

the State of Illinois?

A.

You know, I'm not sure, to be honest.

I'm not sure.

I know at one point they were

competing for a contract with the Department on

Aging.

also they were competing for a contract for the

1115 Waiver and that they didn't get.

know.

I don't know if they got it or not.

And

So I don't

They have clients -- healthcare clients in

10

Texas and Illinois, and, you know, I think they may

11

have about -- I want to say eight or nine clients.

12

But I don't follow that company very much.

13

Q.

Okay.

Were you involved with the

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formation of that company or the management of that

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company in any way?

16

A.

Never.

17

Q.

Or the promotion of that company?

18

A.

When you say promotion, she's my wife,

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so I -- you know, I certainly have met people who,

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you know, if they have an interest or a need for

21

advising around Medicaid, I'll say, you know, my

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wife has a company.

23

promotion, that would be what I would mean.

24

Q.

25

specific.

Sure.

If you're saying

When I say promotion, let me be more

Were you involved at all with the

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promotion of Whitaker Kinne in relation to

soliciting clients or soliciting business?

A.

You know, I'm -- I'm sure that -- you

know, the only client that I can really think of

that I may have directed to them was there was a

publicly traded company that wanted me on their

board, and they wanted to do some work in -- with

Medicaid in this state, and I referred them to my

wife.

10
11
12
13

It's not a -- it's not a -- you know, a

public entity.
Q.

It's a publicly traded company.

Are you familiar with any of the

employees, past or present, at Whitaker Kinne?

A.

Sure.

The Kinne part of Whitaker Kinne

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is a guy Michael Kinne who's a managed care

15

executive who came to the state.

16

the other partner, Keith Wolski, are, you know,

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managed care executives.

18

Her and he and

Joe West, who's the chief population

19

health manager of the company, is the one I worked

20

with when I was at Harvard for public health and he

21

has a Ph.D. in epidemiology.

22

Marian Adly is a person who worked with

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Dr. Dingle and, you know, with a number of other

24

people I know like the Friend Family Health Center,

25

which was a couple of blocks away from the

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University of Chicago.

analyst at the firm.

You know, she worked as an

Q.

What about Quin Golden?

A.

Quin Golden has never worked for

Whitaker Kinne.
Q.

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7

Ms. Golden has never been an employee

or consultant in any way?

A.

Not of Whitaker Kinne, no.

Q.

Has she been an employee or a

10

consultant at any time with -- for yourself or for

11

Dr. and Mrs. -- Dr. Cheryl Whitaker?

A.

12

You know, it's a complicated question

13

in that the predecessor -- I wouldn't even say

14

predecessor.

15

company.

I, frankly, wasn't involved in the

16

company.

There was a company called Kinne and

17

Associates that Michael Kinne started that was

18

seeking to develop a contract for Medicaid managed

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care.

20

ownership.

21

company.

22

My wife was not involved in the

I had no ownership.

Q.

My wife had no

Quin Golden was a consultant to that

Did you or to your knowledge did your

23

wife have anything to do with the hiring of Quin

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Golden by Mr. Kinne?

25

A.

I introduced Quin Golden to Mr. Kinne.

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What he was trying to do was to create a network of

federally qualified health centers.

work at the University of Chicago I led something

called the Urban Health Initiatives that created a

network of 30 federally qualified health centers.

I myself was not the person who dealt with those

executives -- the CEOs and executives on a

day-to-day basis.

under pretty tight time constraints and needed

Quin Golden was.

And in our

Mr. Kinne was

10

someone who knew all of the executive directors so

11

he could sign them up to be in his network, and

12

Quin Golden worked in that capacity.

13

Q.

Doesn't -- does McKinney Whitaker --

14

Kinne Group, does it have a contract with the State

15

of Illinois relating to the Affordable Care Act?

16

A.

It does not.

17

Q.

Does it have a contract with a state

18

agency, health agency, Department of Health

19

Services or --

20

A.

It does not.

21

Q.

So you're not aware of any contract

22

that the Whitaker McKinney Group -- Kinne Group has

23

with the State of Illinois?

24
25

A.

I don't think that Whitaker Kinne has

any contracts.

I don't believe so.

You know, I

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stated that a little earlier because I know they

competed for some but didn't get them.

Q.

Dr. Whitaker, I'm not going to ask you

in detail about your educational and work history,

but would it be safe to say that it's extensive in

relation to -- you mentioned that you attended

Harvard; is that right?

A.

I did.

Q.

And you have a fairly extensive

10

professional background as a medical doctor

11

practicing in the Chicago area; is that right?

A.

12
13

I think it's fair.

I think some people

would like my background.

Q.

14

And you've received a number of awards

15

and published a number of articles in the medical

16

field.

Would that be true?

A.

17

Yeah.

I would say I probably should

18

have published more.

19

call myself a failed academic because I like

20

actually doing things as opposed to writing about

21

doing things.

22

of awards, you know, I probably have received three

23

dozen in my life or more.

24

awards.

25

Q.

I actually -- you know, I

You know, I've -- you know, in terms

I've gotten tons of

And in addition to your wife, Dr.

25
1

Cheryl Whitaker, do you also have a brother?

A.

I do.

Q.

You have two brothers?

A.

I have two brothers, yeah.

Q.

And is one of them named Larry?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And where does Larry live?

A.

He lives in Bartlett, Illinois.

Q.

Is that near Chicago?

10

A.

You know, it's too far for me, an hour

11

outside of the city.

12

Q.

In the Chicago area; is that right?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Does he or did he at one time have his

15
16

own printing company?

A.

You know, I don't know -- he certainly

17

-- he's worked for 30 years for a large printer --

18

printing company.

19

ownership of it, but I believe his wife was a major

20

owner, but I'm not sure.

21

Q.

You know, I don't know the

Were you aware that at one time your

22

brother Larry had a printing company that he and/or

23

his wife owned?

24
25

A.

Yeah.

I don't know the ownership

structure, but yes.

26
1

Q.

Dr. Whitaker, I'm going to direct your

attention to the early part of 2003.

did you become -- were you appointed the director

of the Illinois Department of Public Health?

A.

Fool's Day 2003.

I believe my first day was on April

THE COURT:

What year?

Q.

Was that of 2003?

A.

That was 2003, yes.

THE COURT:

10
11
12
13
14
15

Q.

At that time

Thank you.

And who appointed you?

Was it Governor

Blagojevich that appointed you to that position?

A.

Yes, it was a gubernatorial

appointment.
Q.

Did you -- as part of receiving that

16

appointment, did you -- were you introduced to

17

various officials within the Blagojevich

18

administration?

19

A.

I'm sure I was interviewed.

I was

20

contacted by -- you know, I don't know what

21

Louanner Peters' role was at the time, but I was

22

contacted by her, and through -- I guess through --

23

after some initial screening ended up interviewing

24

with, you know, a state senator and a couple of

25

governor's office folks, in addition to, you know,

27
1

I think some outside people who helped get the

governor elected, and the governor himself.

Q.

And among -- did those -- in addition

to Ms. Peters -- Ms. Peters was the deputy governor

for Governor Blagojevich; is that right?

A.

You know, I think that was her ending

title.

before that, she was -- had a cluster of social --

health and human services agencies, and at the end

10
11
12
13

That's why I said I'm not sure.

She --

of the administration she became deputy governor.

Q.

And did you -- were you introduced to

Tony Rezko?
A.

You know, I think very early on.

The

14

doctor at Cook County Hospital, which is where I

15

was employed at the time, who ran the county health

16

system, and, you know, Dr. Bob Simon, and I think

17

he became -- I can't remember if he was just over

18

emergency services at the time or the CEO of the

19

whole health -- no, he wasn't CEO of the whole

20

health system because Ruth Rothstein was there at

21

the time.

22

Q.

Did you meet Mr. Rezko?

23

A.

I did.

24

Q.

Was he part of the administration?

25

A.

He was not to my knowledge.

I don't

28
1

think he was.
Q.

2
3

Was he associated with Governor

Blagojevich?
A.

He helped him get elected.

MR. GENSON:

5
6

sorry.

I'm sorry.

it back.

10

This is not my witness.

I take it back.
THE COURT:

8
9

Mr. Genson?

I'm sorry.

Did you get carried away,

moment?
MR. GENSON:

12

THE WITNESS:

I got carried away, Judge.

Should there be an

objection here?
THE COURT:

14
15

just a minute.

Wait just a moment.

Who's running this show?

17

(The reporter read the last

18

question and answer.)

THE COURT:

19

Okay.

Now there we.

Q.

Did you meet Victor Roberson?

22

A.

Sure.

23

Q.

And was he also a part of the

25

Start

again.

21

24

Wait

Madam Reporter, read back the question.

16

20

I take

Did you get carried away there for a

11

13

Your Honor, I -- I'm

administration?
A.

He worked in the governor's office.

29
1

Q.

Did you meet Milan Petrovic?

A.

I did.
MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, at this point

I'm going to have to object.

The purpose of this

hearing is to determine whether or not Dr. Whitaker

is hostile to the Government as it relates to Dr.

Dingle's case or whether he's aligned specifically

with Dr. Dingle.

names of people that were associated with the

Going into all these different

10

Blagojevich administration and whether or not he

11

knew them I think is irrelevant.

THE COURT:

12

Well now, Ms. Dalton, this

13

is the Government's witness at this moment and

14

we're in a hearing.

15

box.

16

tomorrow morning they will be there.

17

or not Dr. Whitaker is going to be testifying

18

before the jury, that's what we've got to decide

19

here.

20

his record, and then we'll see where we stand.

They will be at some juncture, which means

Okay.

22

MR. BASS:

24
25

And whether

So let's just let Mr. Bass go ahead and make

21

23

We don't have the jury in the

Q.

Go.
Thank you, Your Honor.

Just to be clear, Mr. Petrovic was also

part of the administration; is that right?

A.

I didn't consider him part of the

30
1

administration.

the governor get elected.

he had no formal role.

Q.

He was an outside party who helped

So if you're saying --

But was he -- was your understanding

that he was a lobbyist or a fundraiser for the

governor?

A.

Yeah, I knew he was a fundraiser, but I

didn't see him as part of the administration

itself.
Q.

10

Now, at the time that you were

11

appointed, was your wife, Dr. Cheryl Whitaker, was

12

she employed at Rush University or Rush Medical

13

School?

14

A.

I believe that to be correct, yeah.

15

Q.

And did you know the president of that

16

school at the time, Henry Black?

A.

17

Henry was not the president.

The head

18

of it was actually Larry Goodman -- Dr. Larry

19

Goodman.

20

department of preventive medicine.

Henry Black was the chair of the

21

Q.

At Rush; is that right?

22

A.

At Rush, that's correct.

23

Q.

Now, prior to that your appointment as

24

director in April of 2003, did you know Leon

25

Dingle?

31
A.

You know, I can't say.

You know, I

certainly had been in the same rooms with him.

know, I know that I did a lecture on African-

American men's health at Rush for preventive

medicine grand rounds, and I believe Dr. Dingle was

there.

so -- and he -- you know, that was the department

where I think he was either an adjunct professor or

so.

10

You

So I certainly knew of him and, you know,

But I wasn't sure of his exact role.

Q.

And just so the record's clear, the

11

person we're -- you know -- you know Dr. Dingle; is

12

that right?

13

A.

Sure.

14

Q.

And he's seated here to my left; is

15

that right?

16

A.

That's Dr. Dingle.

17

Q.

Did Dr. Dingle -- was he involved at

18

all to your knowledge in your appointment as

19

director of Public Health?

20

A.

Not to my knowledge.

21

Q.

Did you have any discussions with Dr.

22
23

Black in connection with Dr. Dingle?

A.

I can't recall that.

You know, it was

24

a pretty compressed time, you know, to try and

25

figure out if it's something that -- that, you know

32
1

-- you know, if I knew people.

remember I was just a doctor at Cook County

Hospital, not politically involved really.

know, I didn't know the ways of politics.

Q.

You have to

So, you

Did you -- do you recall whether or not

you met with Dr. Black and Dr. Dingle within days

of becoming director?

A.

I don't recall.

Q.

Let me show you some documents.

10

they'll assist your recollection.

11

MR. BASS:

Maybe

Your Honor, these are all

12

part of for purposes of this hearing what I'll

13

refer to as Government Group Exhibit 1.

14

THE COURT:

15

MS. DALTON:

All right.
Can I see them?

16

already introduced into evidence?

17

MR. BASS:

18

Are they

This is not a -- this is an

offer of proof.
Q.

19

This is part of Government Exhibit --

20

Group Exhibit 1, and if you can't read, Dr.

21

Whitaker, let me know and I'll highlight it for

22

you.

23

yourself to Dr. Black?

24

of 2003.

25

But do you see that this is an e-mail from

A.

I believe it's in February

Do you see that?

I do.

33
Q.

And was this an e-mail from yourself to

Dr. Black indicating to him that you were a

candidate for the directorship at Public Health?

A.

Certainly looks like it.

MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, for any

exhibit that's placed up on the screen I'd like to

know the Bates number of the page just for the

record, as well as whether or not this is going to

be introduced into evidence for the purposes of

10

this hearing or if it's just going to be shown.

11

There should be some foundation.

THE COURT:

12

It is only going to be

13

accepted by the Court for the purpose of this

14

hearing, period.

Now, let's get that understood.

15

Now, when Dr. Whitaker is called to the

16

stand before the jury, when the jury is in the box,

17

at that time, Ms. Dalton, you may have copies of

18

everything well in advance.

MS. DALTON:

19

I'd still ask for the

20

record, Your Honor, just that the Bates number

21

be --

22

THE COURT:

23

MS. DALTON:

24

MR. BASS:

25

All right.
Thank you.
Your Honor, these documents

were provided to counsel yesterday evening.

The

34
1

only thing I'm showing are copies of what were

provided to them.

conclusion of my examination all of these documents

which are Government Group Exhibit 1.

And I will file of record at the

THE COURT:

MS. DALTON:

Go ahead.

I mean, Your Honor, we

would object to filing of these but -THE COURT:

8
9

All right.

noted of record.

Okay.

Your objection is

Thank you.

Go.

10
11

Q.

And do you see that this is Dr. Black's

12

response to you?

13

A.

I do.

14

Q.

And do you recall whether or not at

Do you see that?

15

that time Dr. Dingle was introduced to you or

16

referred to you by Dr. Black as a person of

17

influence?

18

A.

This was eleven years ago and I don't

19

even have this e-mail address anymore.

20

recollect this at all.

I don't

21

Q.

You have no recollection?

22

A.

I have no recollection of this.

23

Q.

Do you recall that you forwarded that

24

e-mail -- it appears that you would have forwarded

25

that e-mail to yourself later in August after you

35
1

became director?

A.

Do you recall that?

Nope.
MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, again, just if

we can have the Bates number.

able to cross-examine Dr. Whitaker on these

documents, I'd at least like to know which one

we're talking about each time.

THE COURT:

8
9
10

Ms. Dalton.

If I'm going to be

Now, wait just a minute,

What do you mean when you get to

cross-examine?
MS. DALTON:

11

If I get to ask questions

12

of Dr. Whitaker, I'd at least like to know what the

13

Bates number of the documents that are being used

14

are.
THE COURT:

15

No, no.

It doesn't work

16

that way.

17

questions to him and I'm going to be determining

18

whether or not he is a hostile witness.

MS. DALTON:

19
20

Honor.

21

back --

22
23
24
25

Mr. Bass is going to direct all of the

I understand that, Your

But if in the future when the jury is

THE COURT:

Oh, well, that would be a

different -MS. DALTON:

-- then I would just like

to know what Bates number.

36
THE COURT:

1
2

different place.
MR. BASS:

3
4

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

10

All right.

Go ahead.

It's a Whitaker e-mail

19599.
MS. DALTON:

8
9

I'm happy to refer to that,

Your Honor.

That's a different time,

Q.

Thank you.

You said you became director on April

Fool's Day is that right?

11

A.

That's when I started.

12

Q.

Did you begin meeting with Dr. Dingle

13
14

regularly upon your appointment?

A.

I actually don't recall.

You know, let

15

me give you context for when I started.

16

to show up down in Springfield on April 1st.

17

two budget hearings the same day.

18

bioterrorism exercise within a week or two after

19

that where it was a federally mandated bioterrorism

20

exercise that engaged every health department in

21

the State of Illinois.

22

I went back to Cook County Hospital a month after I

23

had left it and I could barely remember having been

24

there because things were happening so fast.

25

I was told
I had

We had a

I mean, literally when I --

I do not recollect talking to Dr.

37
1

Dingle.

was just a whirlwind that I don't recall really a

lot of what happened those early days.

Q.

4
5

It was that, you know, that rapid where it

Well, this is three days after you

became director; is that right?

This is April 4th?

A.

The date looks correct, yeah.

Q.

And this is page 1202.

A.

Yeah.

Q.

And then in the days that follow, page

10

1668, there was a meeting on 4/11 of '03 between

11

yourself and Dr. Black at Rush and Dr. Dingle?

12

This is 4/8 -- the meeting was 4/18 of '03.

13

is another meeting with Dr. Dingle later that

14

afternoon and Dr. Hickombottom.

15

This is page 1671.

There

Do you see that?

Do you see that?

16

A.

True.

17

Q.

Do you know Ronald Hickombottom?

18

A.

I've met him.

Q.

Do you recall meeting with him and Dr.

19
20
21

He's a colleague of Dr.

Dingle.

Dingle shortly after you were appointed director?

22

A.

I have no recollection of that.

23

Q.

You have no recollection of what you

24
25

discussed with him during your meetings with him?

A.

I certainly have no recollection.

38
1

Q.

This is 4/17/03.

This is an e-mail

from -- to yourself from -- is it Marge -- Marjorie

Johnson?

4
5

A.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

That was an

assistant of my predecessor.

Q.

She was an employee at the department?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And you recall that this was an e-mail

she responded to you -- this is page 8197 -- in

10

which you advised Ms. Johnson that you were closing

11

on your house and you asked if she could call Dr.

12

Dingle to see if he could meet an hour later, and

13

she responds to you indicating that Dr. Dingle said

14

it was fine and that he will be coming with Dr.

15

Black at 10 a.m..

16

A.

I do.

17

Q.

And do you see that he also indicated

Do you see that?

18

-- he being Dr. Dingle -- needs to meet -- needed

19

to meet with you at 3:30 that same afternoon about

20

other things about which he would not bring up at

21

the meeting with Dr. Black?

Do you see that?

22

A.

I do.

23

Q.

Do you recall that meeting with Dr.

24
25

Dingle, with or without Dr. Black?

A.

I don't.

I do not.

39
1

Q.

Now, at the time that you became

director of Public Health were you, as with any

state employee, subject to standards of conduct and

ethical requirements that you were to adhere to?

A.

Sure.

Q.

And did those include prohibitions on

conducting political activity while on state time

with state resources?

A.

That would be one.

10

Q.

Is that right?

11

A.

I said that would be one.

12

Q.

And did those ethical restrictions or

13

ethical guidelines include a prohibition on

14

receiving any gifts, money, cash, or other things

15

of value, from people who were attempting to do

16

business with the state or who were doing business

17

with the state?

18

A.

Sure.

19

Q.

Was that among the prohibitions or the

20

standards of conduct that you were to adhere to?

21

A.

That was my understanding, yes.

22

Q.

And was that applicable to not only

23

yourself but to all of the employees at the

24

Department of Public Health?

25

A.

Yes.

40
1
2

Q.

Did you agree with those standards of

conduct?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And did you comply with them during

your tenure as director?

A.

To the best of my knowledge, I did.

Q.

Did you conduct political activity

while you were director of Public Health while on

state time with state resources?

10

A.

I don't believe I did, but I tried to

11

separate the two.

12

for phone calls and would go outside to take calls

13

if there were any such calls.

I maintained a separate phone

14

One of the things that I was happy

15

about was the fact that, as in past years, you

16

know, agency directors didn't have to raise money

17

and the like.

18

And were contributing money also.

19

Q.

So, you know, that was a good thing.

Do you recall whether or not you would

20

forward e-mails or have discussions with candidates

21

for office about fundraising?

22
23
24
25

A.

I'm sure you'll show me.

I don't

recall it.
Q.

I'm just asking if you recall whether

or not you did that?

41
1

A.

I don't recall.

Q.

Was one of the standards of conduct a

prohibition that you would not receive any food or

-- from an individual of more than $75 per day?

A.

You know, I thought it was a hundred

dollars.

thought it was more generous than that.

Q.

8
9

I knew there was a prohibition, but I

So let me just ask you, Dr. Whitaker,

did you -- during the time that you were the

10

director of the Department of Public Health, did

11

you ever receive anything of value, any cash, any

12

other forms of money, a check, or any other thing

13

of value from Dr. Dingle?

14

A.

To me personally?

15

Q.

Yes.

16

A.

Not to my knowledge, no.

17

Q.

Did he ever pay for anything?

When I

18

say provide you anything of value, that would

19

include any -- did he ever pay for anything on your

20

behalf?
A.

21

You know, again, I'm at a disadvantage

22

because I don't have the records that you have.

23

But until I read in the paper about, you know, some

24

things -- you know, like the award from Rainbow

25

PUSH.

I had no idea who actually paid for the

42
1

award I received from that organization.

was news to me.

lot of awards.

actual award that I received.

So that

And you started out saying I had a

I've never known who's paid for the

Q.

I understand that.

A.

Yeah.

Q.

But as you just indicated, you have

followed this trial to some degree by reading the

paper; is that right?

10

A.

That's all I have, yes.

11

Q.

Are you aware of some of the evidence

12

that's been presented during this trial, including

13

the award that you just mentioned?

14

A.

I read about that in the paper, yes.

15

Q.

Did you accompany Dr. Dingle on a trip

16

to Las Vegas?

17

A.

I did.

18

Q.

And was that for a bird flu summit?

19

A.

Yes.

We were invited to an

20

international bird flu summit to talk about the

21

innovations our state had related to using and

22

engaging the faith-based community in bioterrorism

23

prevention and emergency preparedness.

24
25

Q.

And did the people that accompanied you

include Dr. Dingle?

43
A.

You know, it was -- he may have

actually organized the trip, to be honest, you

know, because the work was from the Broadcast

Ministers Alliance.

of my recollection, there were probably, you know,

maybe ten folks, some IDPH.

You know, again, to the best

Q.

Was Dr. Dingle there?

A.

Yes, yes.

Q.

And was Ms. Golden there?

10

A.

She was.

11

Q.

And was Dr. Hickombottom there?

12

A.

I believe he was.

13

Q.

And an another employee -- was another

14

employee that you hired Roxanne Jackson?

A.

15

You know, actually, I'm not sure about

16

Roxanne.

17

of my tenure, and Roxanne would have been working

18

for Dr. Dingle, not for me.

19

Roxanne had left the department two or three years

20

before.

21

Q.

But if -- you know, that was at the end

You know, she --

But you had hired her -- you and Ms.

22

Golden had hired her years before as the director

23

of human resources --

24

A.

Sure.

25

Q.

-- at Public Health; is that right?

44
A.

1
2

I was just correcting that she

didn't work for IDPH at the time.

3
4

Sure.

Q.

And this trip occurred in September of

A.

I thought it was in October, but it --

2007?

5
6

you know, I was wrapping up my tenure at the

agency.

Q.

Fall of 2007?

A.

Yeah, when I was leaving.

10
11
12

I think it

was October, yeah.

Q.

But you were still the director at that

time; is that right?

13

A.

That's correct.

14

Q.

And do you recall whether or not

15

Ms. Jackson was -- accompanied -- was part of the

16

group that went to Las Vegas?

17

A.

I believe so.

18

Q.

What about Ms. Adly?

19

A.

I believe she was also.

20

Q.

Do you recall attending a dinner and

21

concert at the Flamingo restaurant -- Flamingo

22

Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas?

23

A.

I didn't know where it was.

I know

24

there was a combined dinner and a show that all of

25

the folks who came and were a part of the

45
1

delegation that Dr. Dingle led went to gather for

dinner.

Q.

attended?

A.

It was I believe Toni Braxton.

Q.

And did -- was there a dinner

7
8
9
10

And do you recall the concert that you

beforehand?
A.

I thought it was all wrapped together

in the same venue, but yes.

Q.

Who paid for the dinner and your -- who

11

paid for your dinner and your ticket to the

12

concert?

13

A.

Dr. Dingle did.

14

Q.

And are you aware of how much the cost

15
16
17
18
19

for your dinner and ticket was?

A.

I thought it was about a hundred

dollars.
Q.

Are you aware that the ticket itself

cost more than a hundred dollars?

20

A.

I was not, no.

21

Q.

Do you recall --

22

A.

You know, the thing I will say, my

23

practice was to write -- if we got dinner out, you

24

know, in terms of with different individuals, we

25

would send a letter to the ethics officer for the

46
1

agency, who was our general counsel.

the things that I'm not sure of is if you have

access to that letter.

Q.

And one of

So are you saying that you wrote a

letter to -- well, first of all, was -- was the

amount that Dr. Dingle paid for your dinner and

your ticket to the concert more than $75?

A.

I can't recall as I sit here.

Q.

Do you recall whether or not -- did you

10

write a letter to anyone indicating that --

11

A.

That --

12

Q.

Let me finish asking the question.

13

A.

Sure, sure.

14

Q.

Did you ever write a letter to anyone

15

disclosing the fact that Dr. Dingle had paid for

16

your dinner and your concert ticket?

17

A.

You know, as I mentioned earlier, my

18

practice was, when I was in situations like that, I

19

would inform our general counsel, who also acted as

20

the chief ethics officer.

21

Q.

Wasn't one of the -- wasn't the only

22

remedy for receiving such a gift to return it, to

23

reimburse the giver?

24
25

A.

That's not my understanding.

My

understanding, food and beverage was treated

47
1

differently than other objects.

incorrect.

treated differently.
Q.

So I may be

But my understanding was that food was

Mr. Whitaker, at the time that you were

the director of the Department of Public Health

were you experiencing any financial difficulties at

that time, you or your wife?

difficulties I mean did you have any tax

deficiencies or tax liens that were issued against

10

And by financial

you by the Internal Revenue Service?

A.

11

You know, frankly, I don't know.

The

12

thing I will say about that time is, you know,

13

given the speed of both of our lives, you know, I,

14

frankly, didn't do a good job of keeping up with my

15

own, you know, home life and also the financial,

16

you know, keeping up with my bills and that sort of

17

thing.

18

Q.

This is also part of Exhibit 1.

This

19

is an e-mail from Dr. Cheryl Whitaker to yourself

20

on October 26th of 2005, page 113383.

21

in this e-mail where Ms. -- Dr. Cheryl Whitaker

22

advised you about an inquiry about IRS tax returns

23

and possibility of garnishing your accounts and no

24

reserve to pay for your mortgage or tuition or

25

other bills?

Do you see that?

Do you see

48
1

A.

I see it.

But my wife is prone to

dramatics.

fact, you know, have -- have a problem, you know.

I don't recall, you know.

was sitting down and doing our bills and keeping up

with things.

7
8

Q.

So I don't know, you know, did we in

The issue for my family

So you don't recall whether or not you

had any financial difficulties during the time?

MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, at this point

10

again I'm going to have to object.

This matter is

11

in relation to Dr. Dingle's case.

12

appears as if the Government is trying to elicit

13

questions and testimony from Dr. Whitaker on

14

something that is not only personal but completely

15

unrelated to any connection one way or the other

16

that he may or may not have had with Dr. Dingle

17

while he was the director of the Department of

18

Public Health.

At this point it

And I would object.

19

MR. BASS:

20

THE COURT:

21

MR. BASS:

May I respond to that?

Of course.
There's been continued

22

objections about our simply asking this witness

23

questions.

24

questions is whether or not he was aligned with and

25

is aligned with Dr. Dingle, received many benefits

The basis for asking this witness

49
1

from him during this time period, and whether or

not he was experiencing financial difficulties and,

therefore, had a motive to receive benefits from a

person, Dr. Dingle, doing business with the state.

MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, if the

Government wanted to charge Dr. Whitaker with

something, they are more than welcome to do so.

But this is not the place or the venue for -- Dr.

Dingle's trial for them to start getting testimony

10

from Dr. Whitaker about something that is

11

unrelated, like a personal financial problem or a

12

motive to accept gifts from Dr. Dingle.

13

completely inappropriate.

14

of what this hearing is supposed to be about.

15

THE COURT:

This is

It is beyond the scope

Well, Ms. Dalton, I think

16

you're wrong.

And we are not before the jury.

17

This is a hearing only for the purpose of one

18

determination, and that's for me to make, and

19

that's whether or not he is a hostile witness to

20

the Government.

21

So we're not talking about what is going before the

22

jury or what is not going before the jury.

23

is determined as a witness and he takes the stand

24

before that jury, once the Government decides

25

whether to do that, then we'll decide and talk

That's the whole purpose of this.

If he

50
1

about these things.

But they don't have a thing to

do with this hearing, nothing.

Now, go ahead.

Q.

Overruled.

Dr. Whitaker, in addition to Ms. Golden

and Ms. Jackson -- I apologize if I asked this

before, but was another employee of the Department

of Public Health Rory Slater?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And did you hire him?

10

A.

I did.

11

Q.

And was he your executive or

12

administrative assistant?

13
14
15

A.

He was my special assistant is the

Q.

Were there any -- were there any other

title.

16

people that you worked closer with at the

17

department other than Ms. Golden and Mr. Slater?

18

A.

Probably David Carvalho, who was the

19

head of health policy and -- and I think it was

20

assessment or something like that, and as well as

21

the general counsel, Ann Murphy.

22

Q.

Now, you're aware, Dr. Whitaker,

23

obviously, that we -- you agreed to meet with the

24

Government earlier this morning; is that right?

25

A.

That's correct.

51
1

Q.

And you also were issued a subpoena to

testify before the grand jury back in the fall of

2012 prior to the return of the indictment against

Dr. Dingle; is that right?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And the questions that I'm asking you

now, are they similar to or the same to the

questions that were asked of you initially in

December of 2012 and then again this morning?

10
11
12

A.

Some of this is new, but -- but, you

know, it is what it is.

Q.

And after you -- you're also aware of

13

an affidavit that was provided solely to counsel

14

for Dr. Dingle in this matter; are you not?

15

A.

Yes, uh-huh.

16

Q.

And it was -- it's an affidavit of your

17

counsel that was filed under the case caption of

18

this case; is that right?

19

A.

That's correct.

20

Q.

And in that affidavit it asserts that

21

Dr. Whitaker has no personal or business

22

relationship with Leon Dingle; is that right?

23
24
25

A.

That's -- I believe that's correct.

think you showed it to me this morning.

Q.

Do you have a personal or business or

52
1

any other type of relationship with Dr. Dingle?

A.

You know, I don't think I've talked to

Dr. Dingle in two or three years or so.

it's been a long time, let's just say, since I

talked to Dr. Dingle.

first time I've seen him in a long time.

7
8

You know,

So I'm not -- this is the

Q.

When's the last time that you talked to

A.

You know, I -- well, I don't know.

him?

It

10

was sometime around the time he got indicted, but

11

I'm not sure the exact date or time of that.

12

Q.

13

call you?

14

A.

15

And did -- did you call him or did he

No, I -- I called him just to see how

he was doing.

16

Q.

17

occurred?

18

A.

Quin Golden was.

19

Q.

Was that -- where were you when that

20

conversation occurred?
A.

21
22

25

We were in a car on a speakerphone.

I'm not sure where we were.

23
24

And was anyone with you when that

Q.

What was the purpose of your phone

A.

Well, it's been my experience that

call?

53
1

people like myself who end up in the paper that

there's a great deal of silence around them.

I've made it a practice to -- if I know them, I

call people and just, you know, give them a good

word.

know, have problems or not, I just like to be

supportive of people in that situation because I've

been in that situation myself.

Not knowing, you know, if they're -- you

Q.

And

So during the time that you were the

10

director of Public Health did you have a personal,

11

business, or other relationship with Dr. Dingle?

A.

12

I mean, certainly Dr. Dingle was

13

around, you know, particularly as it relates to the

14

faith-based grants.

15

deputy director in addition to being my chief of

16

staff.

17

joint conference room and they often met to work on

18

the grants, you know, on a weekly basis.

19

going in my office, I would normally come across

20

seeing Dr. Dingle in our offices and I'm sure I've

21

met him a couple times during that time.

Quin Golden was the acting

She had an office in my suite.

And I had a

So me

Also, you know -- you know, out at

22
23

events that he -- he hosted.

24

those.

25

lot of different settings.

You know, I attended

I could say that I've seen Dr. Dingle in a

He's never eaten in my

54
1

house, though, and I've never eaten in his.

Q.

You said you might have met with him a

couple of times.

of times?

A.

Was it a lot more than a couple

I don't know.

I'm really -- you know,

it's eleven years ago or seven years ago.

know.

8
9
10
11
12
13

I don't

But I'm sure you'll tell me.

Q.

I'm just asking if you have a

recollection of whether -A.

I don't have a recollection of how many

times I've met Dr. Dingle.

Q.

Did you have a close relationship with

Dr. Dingle?

14

A.

How do you define close?

15

Q.

That you met with him regularly, that

16

he met with you regularly, that he called you on a

17

first-name basis, that you met with him inside the

18

office and outside the office.

19

by close.

20

A.

That's what I mean

Did that occur?

Well, you know, the African-American

21

community in Chicago is small.

We tend to go to

22

certain places as groups.

23

our office many times.

24

know if some of those would be called meetings,

25

but, you know, he certainly was around.

I certainly saw him in

You know, if -- I don't

55
1

Q.

Did he provide you -- well, I'll just

show you a couple examples.

This is page 14323.

This is in June of 2003.

e-mail to yourself from Ms. Johnson?

Do you see that, again an

A.

Yes.

Q.

And there are other e-mails in June of

7
8
9

'03, August of '04.

A.

Tell me if I'm going too fast.

Back up, please.

first one that you put down.

I didn't see the

Yeah, I mean, Dr.

10

Dingle was the convener for the healthcare panel of

11

Operation PUSH, and as I recall, he had a post --

12

post-panel dinner with not just me but -- you know,

13

one of the things I hated about how Dr. Dingle

14

scheduled things was he would have seven, eight

15

people on a panel, so that I barely got air time.

16

And so there was a group of people who went out

17

with him post the panel at the conference.

18
19

Q.

I understand that there might have been

a variety of contexts --

20

A.

Yeah.

21

Q.

-- that you would have had meetings

22

with Dr. Dingle, and I'll give you plenty of

23

opportunity to explain that.

24

now if you recall whether or not you met regularly

25

with Dr. Dingle?

I'm just asking you

56
A.

But the context matters; doesn't it?

Q.

Do you recall whether you did that?

A.

I've met with him a number of times.

Q.

This is August of -- September of '04,

1
2

mean --

Sure.

6
7

also September of '04, more September of '04.

you know Jacquelyn Kilpatrick at Dr. Dingle's

office?
A.

10

You know, I know who she is.

Did

I can't

11

recall meeting her, but I certainly know who she

12

is.
Q.

13
14

Club.

What was that?

A.

15

April of '05 a meeting at the East Bank

I've probably been to the East Bank

16

Club 40 times this year.

17

is.

I don't know what that

18

Q.

This is April of '05, August of '05.

19

A.

Could you back up one, please?

20

Q.

Sure.

21

A.

This looks like it's something that

22

must be dealing with the University of Illinois

23

Chicago.

24

president or chancellor or something like that, and

25

John DiNardo I believe was the president of the

Art Savage was their executive vice

57
1

hospital system.

Q.

This is a -- February of '06, this is a

meeting at the Triedstone Church where you were to

receive an award for recognition for your support

for the HIV/AIDS program and Dr. Dingle was

involved with that.

Do you see that?

A.

Sure.

Q.

May of '06, a meeting with Dr. Dingle

That was a great program.

to discuss managed care, manpower shortage, and

10

legislation by Congressman Conyers and Senator

11

Kennedy?

12

A.

Yep.

13

Q.

July of '06?

14

A.

Yeah, I don't recall that.

15

Q.

This is an e-mail about meeting at

16

Rainbow PUSH headquarters, also with Dr. Dingle and

17

Reverend Jackson.

18

A.

19
20

Do you see that?

Yeah, Dr. Dingle often connected with

me relating to Reverend Jackson.

Q.

Did Dr. Dingle also call you regularly?

21

Did you speak with him on the phone regularly?

22

you recall?

Do

23

A.

I'm sure I did.

24

Q.

This is October of '04, a message from

25

Dr. Dingle.

February of '05 -- again tell me if

58
1

this is too small.

I can enlarge it -- February of

'05, do you see the three entries there relating to

Dr. Dingle?

A.

Sure.

Q.

April of '05, further calls from Dr.

Dingle, one initially calling for Ms. Golden and

then others to you; is that right?

And then March of '05 -- March 29th of

8
9

'05 Dr. Dingle called relating to Broadcast

10

Ministers Alliance, their contract.

They are

11

driving him crazy wanting to know when they are

12

going to get their money for the prostate cancer

13

grant.

Do you see that?

14

A.

Yeah.

15

Q.

Do you see it?

16

A.

I mean, I'm -- yeah.

17

Q.

So would these be examples of you

18

regularly communicating either in person or by

19

telephone with Dr. Dingle?

20

A.

Sure.

In almost every instance he's

21

representing one group or another that we had

22

dealings with as an agency.

23

Q.

And during that time period did you --

24

were you familiar with the Broadcast Ministers

25

Alliance?

59
A.

1
2

it before I came to the department.

Q.

3
4

You know, I actually had never heard of

But did you become -- did you become

aware of Broadcast Ministers Alliance --

A.

Sure.

Q.

-- through Dr. Dingle?

A.

Yeah, sure.

You know, the thing -- you

know, a lot of what we tried to do was evidence-

based.

And the Centers for Disease Control

10

believes that having opinion leaders like ministers

11

involved with healthcare actually is a way to

12

decrease health disparities.

13

you talk about prostate cancer, hypertension, HIV,

14

breast cancer, the Broadcast Ministers were an

15

integral part of a lot of that work, in addition to

16

the faith-based.

17

Q.

And as a result, when

And so after -- after you became

18

director, did -- were you and Ms. Golden involved

19

in implementing initiatives of the administration

20

relating to breast and cervical cancer, BASUAH, and

21

prostate cancer, and emergency preparedness?

22

you involved?

23

A.

Were

Yeah, I would say -- you know, when you

24

say the administration, I think that's fair for

25

HIV, I think it's fair for breast cancer.

Prostate

60
1

cancer they had nothing to do with to my knowledge.

I think we originated that.

other.

And you said one

I'm sorry, I forgot.

Q.

Emergency preparedness.

A.

Emergency preparedness, we did that

internally, not from the governor's office.

Q.

And were -- weren't those initiatives,

the BASUAH and emergency preparedness initiatives,

didn't they arise out of the governor's office?

A.

10

No.

Those are the only two -- I'm

11

sorry.

12

office.

13

out of the governor's office.

14
15

BASUAH originated out of the governor's

Emergency preparedness I don't think arose

Q.

Did that arise out of the Department of

Public Health?

16

A.

I think it arose out of our department.

17

Q.

Was that something that arose out of

18
19

the director's office at Public Health?

A.

You know, I'm not sure where the idea

20

came from.

I know, again, we tried to do

21

evidence-based things, and, you know, so social

22

marketing and this opinion leader thing I just

23

talked about were major drivers of it, so we tried

24

to do it with all of our health activities.

25

you know -- so I think it -- you know, I'm not sure

But,

61
1

where -- you know, for emergency preparedness where

in the agency it emanated.

the office of minority health services.

have come out of emergency preparedness.

sure where.

agency.

Q.

It may have come out of

It may
I'm not

But it certainly was driven from our

And when I say arose, did the -- did

the decisions regarding who got what grants, in

what amounts, and under what terms, did those

10

decisions arise out of your office at the

11

Department of Public Health?

12

A.

You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

13

In terms of my own management style, I spent a lot

14

of time on the road.

15

health departments -- I mean counties, rather, you

16

know, during my tenure.

17

was such that I gave a lot of leeway to my deputies

18

to draft things in their particular areas.

19

certainly, you know, the office of the director in

20

certain instances got involved in it certainly, you

21

know, and Quin Golden was my person inside the

22

agency who managed all the day-to-day.

23

Q.

I visited 84 out of 102

So the division of labor

And

And you're aware, aren't you, Dr.

24

Whitaker, because we spoke about it this morning

25

and you referenced reading the newspaper, that

62
1

during this trial evidence has been presented

relating to twelve grants that were issued during

your tenure at the Department of Public Health to

Broadcast Ministers totaling approximately four

million dollars?

A.

Sure.

Q.

Are you aware of that?

MS. DALTON:

8
9

Your Honor, I would just

object to any references to what he told Mr. Bass

10

this morning just because, as we've already

11

discussed, we haven't had the opportunity to review

12

what was discussed between Dr. Whitaker and Mr.

13

Bass.

14

knowledge of or am not privy to.

15

object to the use of any reference to those

16

conversations.

It's not something that I have had any

THE COURT:

17

So I would just

But not in this hearing.

18

Now, you may certainly have the grounds for that

19

objection when the jury is in the box and if he

20

calls Dr. Whitaker and if Dr. Whitaker is asked the

21

same question.

22

time.

So you can hold that until that

23

MS. DALTON:

24

THE COURT:

25

MS. DALTON:

I'll hold it till then.

If it develops.
Okay.

Thank you.

63
THE COURT:

1
2

Q.

Okay.

Did the department issue twelve grants

totaling approximately four million dollars to the

Broadcast Ministers Alliance between 2003 and 2007?

5
6

A.

That's what you informed me of.

didn't know of myself, no.

Q.

Were you -- do you recall that?

A.

I knew he had grants.

didn't manage grants day-to-day.

You know, I
I know he had

10

different types of grants for emergency

11

preparedness, prostate cancer, breast -- no, I

12

don't know about breast and cervical cancer but --

13

HIV, but, you know, I couldn't tell you the number.

14

You informed me of that.

15
16
17

Q.

And when you say I informed you, I

asked you about that; is that right?

A.

Well, you told me about it.

I -- I

18

couldn't off the top of head tell you how many

19

grants or how much money -- and you may recall that

20

when I met you two years ago you asked me the same

21

question and my question back was can you tell me

22

how much money was given out during my tenure,

23

because I didn't know.

24

to me was that most of the money got given during

25

my tenure, and in the paper it suggested most of it

And what you all said back

64
1

got given out by my successor.

either of those figures at that time or -- you

know, except for what I read.

Q.

But I didn't know

So having -- and I'm just asking you

now, having -- having the benefit of being asked

about this previously and also reviewing whatever

you reviewed in the newspaper, do you have any

independent recollection of the Department of

Public Health issuing twelve grants totaling

10

approximately four million dollars to the Broadcast

11

Ministers Alliance associated with Dr. Dingle?

12

you have any independent recollection of that?

13

A.

I know he had multiple grants.

Do

And I

14

don't believe what I read in the newspaper except

15

that I read it.

16

what you're telling me.

17

Q.

So, you know, I have to agree with

And all of those grants were no-bid,

18

up-front funded, meaning once the grants were

19

approved the -- all of the money or a substantial

20

amount of the money was disbursed to the grantee.

21

Do you recall that occurring while you were the

22

director?

23

A.

Oh, I'm sure.

As I explained this

24

morning, you know, that wasn't for no reason that

25

that was the case.

Oftentimes with the grant

65
1

cycles we wouldn't get monies to grantees until

very late in the grant cycle.

front-load the grant, then the money would get lost

to the agency as well as to the grantees.

And if we didn't

Secondly, because a lot of the groups

5
6

we were working with were, you know, nascent

organizations, you know, newly formed and not as

financially stable, they needed their money so they

could pay their work force and others up-front.

10

They couldn't float -- they didn't have enough

11

reserves to float an organization.

12

accommodate that, you know, given the reality of a

13

lot of very important yet small organizations.

14

Q.

So we tried to

Were you involved personally in

15

deciding and awarding grants, any of the grants, to

16

Broadcast Ministers Alliance?

17
18

A.

I'm sure I was, you know, part of the

process.

19

Q.

Were you involved in deciding the terms

20

of those grants?

21

and the up-front funding.

And by that I mean the amounts

22

A.

I'm sure for some I probably was and

23

others I wasn't.

24

where I -- every grant had to come to me and I

25

determined the terms and amounts.

So it wasn't a consistent thing

That wasn't how

66
1
2

it worked.
Q.

Were there any other persons that you

can recall, Dr. Whitaker, other than Dr. Dingle,

who you were -- who the department was awarding

that volume of grants to with those up-front,

no-bid terms while you were meeting with Dr. Dingle

in the -- with the regularity that you did?

than Dr. Dingle, do you recall anyone else?

A.

Other

You know, what I can say is that when I

10

started -- you know, context is important and

11

oftentimes it gets divorced from the discussion.

12

When I started, the state was in a five

13

billion dollar budget deficit.

14

months of my tenure lost I want to say, through

15

early retirement, you know, upwards of 600 people.

16

And so we had federal grants that had deliverables.

17

We had state grants that had legislative mandates

18

that they get done.

19

we oftentimes turned to people like Dr. Dingle and

20

in the case of HIV the Illinois Public Health

21

Association -- and in fact, their amounts of money

22

that they got were larger than Dr. Dingle got --

23

and as well as the Illinois Public Health Institute

24

to help us get the work done.

25

We in the first

The work had to get done.

So the difference between Dr. Dingle

So

67
1

and these other groups is that Quin Golden was

involved in it and it was in my office.

Quin was the deputy and used my conference room,

Dr. Dingle was there.

Because

Emergency preparedness was in a whole

5
6

nother building in Springfield and they didn't

really have a presence in Chicago in the same way,

so most of the staff was down here, and Dr. Dingle

was up there.
And in terms of the Illinois Public

10
11

Health Institute, they worked with -- with David

12

Carvalho and his staff very closely, similar

13

volumes of money.
So Dr. Dingle was not the only grantee

14
15

that had that sort of money.

16

him more than those others because of the physical

17

proximity that Quin Golden had to me.

I'm sorry, I speak with my hands.

18
19
20

It is true that I saw

Q.

You just mentioned -- did Dr. Dingle

have the use of the director's office?

21

A.

I didn't say that.

22

Q.

But you said that he used your

23
24
25

I'm saying that --

conference room; is that right?

A.

The staff member, Quin Golden, who he

worked with was in my office and she was the deputy

68
1

who oversaw that area.

meetings were where she was and that was in my

office.

operate in my office.

Dr. Dingle didn't have an office to

Q.

As a consequence, the

And I'm just asking.

If I can ask it

in a better way, please tell me.

A.

Yeah.

I mean, there's a different

inference if you're saying that he comes in and

runs my office.
Q.

10
11

That's not what I asked you.

I asked

you if he had use of your office.

A.

12
13

up.

14

my office.

15

That's not what happened.

He came to meetings that my staff set

So I don't know if I would call that a use of

Q.

Now, I've asked you about your meeting

16

with -- the regularity of your meeting with Dr.

17

Dingle --

18

A.

Yeah.

19

Q.

-- by phone or in person.

I've asked

20

you if you received any benefits from him.

I've

21

asked you about the trip to Las Vegas.

22

question is, can you think of anyone else besides

23

Leon Dingle who you met with with that regularity

24

and who received four million dollars in up-front,

25

no-bid grants while you were the director?

And so my

Can you

69
1

think of anyone else that had the situation like

Dr. Dingle?

A.

I'm going to have to give that some

thought.

You know, it -- perhaps -- I don't have

benefit of having my records that you referred to,

and if I went through them, I probably could figure

out that.

head, but if you gave me a chance to look through

all my records.

But, you know, I can't off of top of

I had dozens and dozens of

10

meetings a day, you know.

11

lot of people.

12

Q.

So, you know, I've met a

I asked you about whether or not you

13

received any monetary benefits or other things of

14

value from Dr. Dingle.

15

the time that you were the director and Ms. Golden

16

was the chief -- your chief of staff that Ms.

17

Golden was receiving bribes and kickback payments

18

from Roxanne Jackson with money originally

19

distributed to Dr. Dingle?

Were you aware that during

20

A.

I had no idea.

21

Q.

Did you -- so you had -- if you had no

22
23
24
25

knowledge, did you participate in that in any way?

A.

No.

By definition, I didn't

participate if I had no knowledge.

Q.

Was there anyone that Quin Golden was

70
1

closer to during that time period than yourself?

A.

Probably no.

Q.

And did you -- did you evaluate her?

Were you her evaluator?

A.

You know, she reported to me, yes.

Q.

And did you -- towards the end of your

tenure in spring of 2007 did you recommend her for

an $8,000 bonus?

A.

10

Again, context helps here.

At the time

-- you said what date?

11

Q.

May of 2007.

12

A.

The -- you know, one of the challenges

13

for us as an agency and for the government in

14

general was that we didn't have any pay increases

15

over a two- to three-year period.

16

instead of instituting a step increase for

17

everybody at three percent or two percent or some

18

other number which would become part of the base

19

and the next time you did a step increase it would

20

be even more, the Office of Management and Budget

21

decided to do a one-time payment to all of the

22

staff subject to evaluations.

23

would say nearly everyone in my agency got a

24

quote-unquote bonus.

25

catch-up payment for all of the forgone step

And to --

So in that context I

It was really a one-time

71
1

increases that all of our employees had.

Q.

2
3

Dr. Whitaker, prior to this morning you

met with the Government once before; is that right?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And that was in December of 2012?

A.

I think December 7th is what I heard,

yes, sir.

Q.

Okay.

And at that time you or your

counsel asked for the courtesy of meeting with the

10

Government outside the grand jury pursuant to a

11

proffer agreement; is that right?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And in that proffer agreement the

14

Government agreed not to use any of your statements

15

against you so long as you were completely

16

truthful; is that right?

17

A.

Correct.

18

Q.

And during that interview the

19

Government asked you about your relationship with

20

Ms. Golden; is that right?

21

A.

That's correct.

22

Q.

To which you refused to answer; is that

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

During this time period --

23

right?

72
1

A.

Actually, to be accurate, my attorney

suggested that we not delve into private areas

because I was told when I came into the hearing

room that I was going to be a potential witness and

not a target, but the questions were target-ish.

Q.

Since you bring it up --

A.

Yeah.

Q.

-- you were advised that you were not a

target of the investigation, meaning that you were

10

not someone for whom the Government believed there

11

was sufficient evidence to charge you with a crime,

12

nor a present intention in 2012 to charge you with

13

a crime.

14
15
16

A.

That's what you were advised of; right?

Yes.

I was told not a target or a

subject at the beginning of that interview.

Q.

And you were also advised that under

17

the broad definition of subject by the Department

18

of Justice you were a subject, meaning you were

19

someone whose conduct was in -- even though not a

20

target, your conduct was within the scope of the

21

investigation, like other employees at the

22

Department of Public Health; is that right?

23

A.

You know, in fact, given we have notes

24

from the meeting, at the beginning of the meeting

25

we were told that I was not a target, nor a

73
1

subject.

was a subject.
Q.

At the end of the meeting I was told I

So it changed in that setting.

You're suggesting that you were advised

at the beginning of the meeting that you were both

not a target or a subject, but you were told at the

end of the meeting that you were a suggest; is that

right?
A.

8
9
10

had a staff member with us who took notes during

that session and that's what the notes suggest.
Q.

11
12

At least that's the notes that -- we

Would your counsel be better prepared

to address that than yourself?

13

A.

I'm sure he would.

14

Q.

And you're aware now that -- you're

15

aware now that there's a statute of limitations on

16

conduct that occurred more than five years ago.

17

Are you aware of that?

A.

18

You just told me that just today.

19

mean, frankly, my attorney and I, you know, given

20

that I have not done wrongdoing and I don't feel

21

I've done any wrong, I've never actually had a

22

discussion about my -- my exposure to criminal

23

prosecution except about perjury or lying to a

24

federal -- a federal official or something like

25

that.

74
Q.

And was that the first time that you --

you've already said that's the first time you met

with the Government and the only time prior to this

morning; is that right?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And in that meeting in December of 2012

did the Government ask you to do anything other

than tell the truth?

A.

9
10

And I answered every single question

but that question.

11

Q.

And was -- was that meeting private?

12

A.

I believe it was.

13

Q.

And during the time that you were the

14

director and Ms. Golden was your chief of staff,

15

not -- I don't intend to go into the details, but

16

your relationship with Ms. -- your relationship

17

with Ms. Golden was more than professional; is that

18

right?

19

A.

That's fair to say.

MS. DALTON:

20

Your Honor, I'm just going

21

to object just for the record to this line of

22

questioning.
THE COURT:

23
24
25

Q.

Overruled.

And you would see her regularly both

inside and outside the office; is that right?

75
A.

You know, I would say that, you know,

during my -- my time in Springfield, I stayed in

Springfield three to four days a week and, you

know, worked ten to twelve hours a day, and Quin

was with me a great deal of time, except, you know,

possibly when I was out in other parts of the state

visiting local health departments.

Q.

8
9

And she joined you at the University of

Chicago several months after you went there in the

10

latter part of 2007.

11

early --

She came -- she joined you in

12

A.

I think that's right, yeah.

13

Q.

And your relationship with Ms. Golden

14

and your knowledge of her continued in 2008, 2009,

15

and up to the present; is that right?

A.

16
17

You know, Quin is -- she was -- is a

good friend of mine.

Q.

18

And during that entire time period from

19

2003 to 2012 when you met -- that nine-year time

20

period when you met with the Government the first

21

time, she never mentioned anything to you at all

22

about the bribes or kickbacks that she was taking

23

from Roxanne Jackson with money distributed to Leon

24

Dingle?

25

A.

You know, as I told you this morning, I

76
1

think that the first time she said something to me

about it was either -- I believe it was the day or

-- of the indictment coming out, and she called me

crying to tell me that, you know, she had done

something wrong and that, you know, there was going

to be an indictment.

Q.

In addition to the awards that I've

asked you about and the trip to Las Vegas, did you

receive other benefits from Dr. Dingle, such as

10

payment for any food or alcohol by him at the

11

Chicago Yacht Club?

12

A.

You know, I think much in the way that

13

I talked about earlier, you know, when I talked

14

about him convening the -- the panel who were at

15

the Rainbow PUSH healthcare forum, we went to the

16

Chicago Yacht Club to go -- you know, if -- there

17

may have been other times, but, you know, that's

18

the one that sticks in my head.

19

never been in the Chicago Yacht Club at the time,

20

so that -- that's anchored in my mind, but I'm sure

21

I've -- I've been there before.

22

Q.

I, frankly, had

September of 2005 -- this e-mail is

23

page 99196.

Do you see this e-mail from Mr. Slater

24

to yourself asking you if you want to mention the

25

award from Dingle's group?

77
1

A.

Yes.

Q.

Do you recall what that award in

September of '05 was about, two years before the

Unity Globe award from Rainbow PUSH?

A.

It must be the Unity Globe from Rainbow

PUSH.

that -- what that award was.

Q.

8
9

A.

I've gotten probably three awards from

Rainbow PUSH in my life.

Q.

12
13

Do you recall getting a Unity Globe

award two years later in 2007?

10
11

I -- you know, I, frankly, didn't know what

Do you recall getting -- whether you

got more than one award from Dr. Dingle?

A.

14

I don't know.

I mean, the fact -- when

15

you say award from Dr. Dingle, I didn't see it as

16

an award from Dr. Dingle.

17

from Rainbow PUSH.

Q.

18

I saw it as an award

Well, this e-mail says an award from

19

Dingle's group, not from Rainbow PUSH; is that

20

right?

21
22

A.

That's Rory Slater speaking.

I don't

know what this even is talking about, so ...

23

Q.

You don't recall this?

24

A.

I do not recall this.

25

Q.

Do you know what the Chicago Football

78
1

Classic is?
A.

Yes.

It's an annual Football Classic

between two historically black colleges that

happens every year.

August or September.

there's education around how to get into college.

And we used it -- we sponsored it to do HIV

prevention and got hundreds of people to go to it.

And, you know, I don't know if we did it more than

10

one year.

11

Q.

I want to say it's around

It's often a place where

We may have done it two years.

Were you -- this is page 97270.

Did

12

Dr. Dingle ever provide you with tickets to a

13

skybox and pay for any food or alcohol associated

14

with your attendance at a Classic event?

A.

15

What I can say is I know I went to this

16

event.

17

way the skyboxes work at the Chicago Classic is

18

people float around to different skyboxes.

19

you know, a lot of the legislators and other folks

20

who, you know, were part of my constituents were at

21

the event, and so, you know, so I certainly was in

22

and out of a box that Dr. Dingle -- I don't know if

23

I ate or drank there.

24
25

I know I was in a number of skyboxes.

The

And,

The other thing I'll say is that we did

hundreds of HIV tests at the Chicago Classic.

79
Q.

Do you have any recollection as to

whether or not Dr. Dingle purchased your tickets

for the skybox and paid for any food or alcohol

associated with it?

of that?

Do you have any recollection

A.

I have no recollection.

Q.

You said that you did not know that Dr.

Dingle was associated with the Unity Globe award?

A.

Well, I know that -- I mean, it was the

10

health forum that gave me the award and he

11

organized it, but, you know, the -- what I said is

12

I didn't know he paid for it.

13

distinction, so ...
Q.

14

That's a

You don't know that he paid for it, but

15

you are aware that he -- Dr. Dingle is associated

16

with Reverend Jackson and Rainbow PUSH and the

17

Unity Globe; is that right?

A.

18

Sure.

But what I'd say is for him to

19

curry favor for it I would think I need to know

20

that he actually paid for it.

21

paid for it, so ...

Q.

22

And I didn't know he

You were aware, though, that he paid

23

for your dinner and ticket in Las Vegas; is that

24

right?

25

A.

I did and I -- if you show me the

80
1

ethics form, I declared it.

Q.

Are you sure that you declared it?

A.

I should say -- let me restate.

believe I declared it.

my tenure, and I was, frankly, trying to get out of

my department and go start new things.

7
8

Q.

It was towards the end of

Now, were you -- are you aware of the

National Medical Fellowship?

A.

I am.

10

Q.

What is NMF for short?

11

A.

It means National Medical Fellowship.

What is that?

12

It's a scholarship program started in Chicago in

13

the mid '40s by a University of Chicago professor.

14

I'm a former recipient of it, as is my wife.

15

Probably most any physician who is low income, like

16

I was, is a recipient of the award.

17

The organization is based in New York City.

18

you know, I believe that, you know, that -- I

19

believe their executive director reached out to me

20

and wanted to start a gala as part of an

21

anniversary deal in the Chicagoland area.

22

did the summit thing in Las Vegas and other large

23

cities throughout the country.

24
25

Q.

It's national.
And,

And they

Do you recall being involved in the

solicitation of contributions to the National

81
1

Medical Fellowship at the end of your tenure at

Public Health?
A.

3
4

When you say solicitation, I'm not sure

what you mean.

Q.

Do you know Andrew Velasquez?

A.

Andrew Velasquez.

tell me who he is?

but I don't know who that is.

Q.

9
10

I'm not -- can you

The name sounds familiar to me,

I'm sorry.

Arthur Velasquez.

Do you

know Arthur Velasquez?

A.

11

I know Arthur Velasquez.

He's a

12

graduate of my high school, a prominent Latino

13

leader.

14

And the thing I will say, you know, the

15

NMF was an example of a public-private partnership.

16

So the idea was that the state help supported some

17

-- you know, because one of our missions was

18

improving human capital, meaning that, you know, we

19

wanted to defray the debt of medical students so

20

that they would practice in underserved areas.

There's a lot of data that suggests if

21
22

you have more debt you go into anesthesiology or

23

radiology.

24

opportunity to practice in underserved areas.

25

Q.

If you defray debt, you have more of an

Does this refresh -- this letter from

82
1

yourself to Mr. Velasquez, does it refresh your

recollection as to whether or not you solicited a

contribution from him to co-chair the NMF gala?

A.

I don't recall this whatsoever.

It

looks like my electronic signature there.

write that well.

you've seen my signature, I don't write that well.

So, if it was done over my letterhead, you know, I

may have approved it.

Q.

10
11

I don't

So, I -- yeah, because I -- if

I don't know, to be honest.

Do you have any recollection of writing

this letter?

12

A.

I don't.

13

Q.

Who would have written it for you?

14

A.

You know, the thing that's true in my

15

agency is eight people had my signature authority.

16

So, if -- you know, I were to make a guess, it

17

likely was Rory Slater or Quin Golden, so -- but

18

you know, I don't recall doing it myself.

19

doesn't mean I didn't do it.

20

it.

21

Q.

That

I just don't recall

Were you involved in the issuance of a

22

grant to an organization known as AWARE for that

23

organization then to make a contribution of grant

24

funds to NMF?

25

A.

Were you involved in that?

I didn't know what AWARE was until you

83
1

told me about it as an organization affiliated with

Dr. Dingle.

was giving money to Dr. Dingle to help construct

and put together this event in Chicago.

What I understood was that the agency

And as I mentioned earlier, you know,

5
6

we -- we outsourced a lot of things because we,

frankly, didn't have the staff internally.

this is yet another example of money that would go

to an outsourced entity, in this case being Dr.

10
11

And

Dingle, and he would help put on the event.

Q.

You weren't previously aware -- you

12

weren't previously aware prior to December of 2012

13

that an organization named AWARE was associated

14

with Dr. Dingle?

15

A.

You weren't aware of that?

Well, I've heard of it previously, but

16

it was because of newspaper accounts and others,

17

but I didn't -- you know, I didn't know that was

18

Dr. Dingle.

19
20

Q.

I did not know that.

Were you aware in -- did you have

knowledge --

21

A.

Yeah.

22

Q.

In the fall of 2007 and into early

23

2008, did you have knowledge that an organization

24

named AWARE was issued a grant -- was associated

25

with Dr. Dingle and issued a grant with which it

84
1

made a contribution to NMF?

A.

I don't believe I knew that.

I think,

you know, I just -- my recollection is I learned

about it after I left the department.

Q.

Didn't you meet with Dr. Dingle and

Mr. Slater to discuss that very thing, the NMF --

contributions to NMF and the gala?

A.

8
9

Yeah, no doubt.

But what I'm saying to

you is I associated Dr. Dingle with Broadcast

10

Ministers Alliance.

11

entity or other entities that money went to from us

12

because I was not that granularly involved in the

13

grants.

14
15

Q.

I didn't know he had that

And you know Esther Dyer, the -- she's

the president of NMF; is that right?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

And were there a number of

18

communications, e-mail communications and direct

19

conversations, between yourself and Dr. Dingle with

20

Ms. Dyer and Mr. Slater about this very thing, the

21

contribution by AWARE to NMF?

22

A.

You probably showed me an e-mail.

23

don't remember it.

But there definitely was

24

conversations between myself, Esther and Rory and

25

Dr. Dingle about the NMF.

The vehicle used to do

85
1

that I don't recollect.

with Dr. Dingle.

Q.

I just -- I associate that

Wasn't Mr. Slater sent by you to New

York to meet with Ms. Dyer about again this very

thing, AWARE's contribution to NMF and the

scheduling of a pre-gala event?

A.

Mr. Slater --

No argument that Dr. Slater went -- I

mean, Mr. Slater went there.

didn't know was AWARE was the vehicle to receive

10
11
12
13

I sent him.

What I

the money.
Q.

What was it your understanding you were

sending Mr. Slater to do?

A.

You know, what we wanted was a

14

successful event in Chicago that would become an

15

annual event that would support minority students

16

in the Chicagoland area.

17

just happened two or three weeks ago.

18

wrote a $10,000 check myself.

19

was supposed to go.

20

But it has become a self-sustaining thing that the

21

department seeded and is supporting deserving

22

minority students now.

23

happened at the time we made the money and it has

24

happened.

25

Q.

In fact, the NMF gala

I think I

My wife, you know,

I didn't go.

She didn't go.

That's what I would hope

Wasn't there a pre-gala event at the

86
1
2

Chicago Yacht Club in April of 2008?

A.

It sounds -- I remember there being

some event at the Yacht Club affiliated with NMF.

I don't know if it was a pre-gala event.

5
6
7
8
9

Q.

Were you aware that Dr. Dingle was a

member of the Chicago Yacht Club?

A.

Yeah.

I mean, he may be one of three

people I know who belong to it.

Q.

And had you previously gone to the

10

Chicago Yacht Club with Dr. Dingle during the time

11

that you were director?

12
13

A.

As I stated, I went with the Rainbow

PUSH panel afterwards.

14

Q.

Was that with Dr. Dingle as well?

15

A.

And ten other people, yes.

16

Q.

Did you pay for any -- did you consume

17

any food or alcohol while you were there?

18

A.

I believe I did.

19

Q.

Did you pay for any of those?

20

A.

I did not.

But, you know, again, I

21

would check the -- check the ethics form with the

22

general counsel at IDPH.

23
24
25

Q.

There was such a pre-gala event at the

Yacht Club; is that right?

A.

There was some event there.

87
1

Q.

Do you recall attending such an event?

A.

I attended an event.

it was called.
Q.

4
5

I don't know what

I did go to an event.

And was the pre-gala a pre-gala for the

actual gala at which you were to be honored?

A.

I don't know where the honoring

happened.

didn't want to be honored by them, to be honest.

But I was honored either -- I thought I was honored

I know that I was honored by them.

10

at the actual event.

11

speech there talking about the difficulties of

12

getting through medical school and having no money.

13

So that -- that's what I recall about it.

Q.

14

Because I remember giving a

And this is again part of Government

15

Exhibit 1 for -- Group Exhibit 1 for purposes of

16

this hearing.

17

that are shown in this photograph?

A.

18

Do you recognize the table of items

You know, I don't -- it looks familiar.

19

I don't have any of those in my house, so I don't

20

-- I don't even know where that is.

Q.

21
22

Aren't those Unity Globe awards of

which you've received one?

A.

23

I thought the Unity Globe was actually

24

something else.

25

honest.

I don't know what that is, to be

88
Q.

1
2

And this event at the Chicago Yacht

Club, it was hosted by Dr. Dingle; was it not?

A.

It must have been, yeah.

Q.

And you attended and Dr. Cheryl

Whitaker attended?
A.

I can't speak for my wife.

Q.

Do you recall that you attended?

A.

I believe -- yeah, I remember going to

6
7

10

I don't

recall.

two events.
Q.

11

Do you -- does this refresh your

12

recollection about attending a pre-gala event at

13

the Chicago Yacht Club hosted by Dr. Dingle?

14

A.

It looks -- maybe.

I take a lot of

15

pictures.

16

I've done a lot of pictures like that in a lot of

17

venues.

That's one of the things I can say is

18

Q.

Is this yourself and Dr. Dingle?

19

A.

It is.

20

Q.

Who paid for the food and alcohol at

21

the event?

22

A.

I believe it was the grant.

23

Q.

Pardon me?

24

A.

I thought it was the grant.

25

Q.

A Department of Public Health grant

89
1
2

paid for the food and alcohol?

A.

I don't know.

We got money to put on

an event, so I don't know who paid for it.

honest, I don't know.

5
6

Q.

To be

Were you aware that it was paid for by

Dr. Dingle?

A.

I did not know that.

Q.

And the other gentleman with you in

9
10

this photograph is -- was your successor, Dr.

Arnold; is that right?

11

A.

That looks like him, yes.

12

Q.

Is Dr. Cheryl Whitaker in this

13

photograph?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

So did she attend the event as well?

16

A.

If those are pictures, sure.

17

Q.

Did you or Dr. Cheryl Whitaker pay for

18

She's to the left.

any expenses associated with this event?

19

A.

I don't believe we did.

20

Q.

Do you recognize the lady in the pink

21

outfit that's standing to your left in this

22

photograph?

23
24
25

A.

I think that's Claudia -- Claudia

Johnson I think that is.

Q.

She was the owner of AWARE; isn't that

90
1

right?
A.

2
3

I -- you're teaching me something new.

I didn't know she was the person that was AWARE.

Q.

Well, I'm teaching you -- you are

standing there with Ms. Johnson at this event at

the Yacht Club; is that right?

MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, this is --

this is leading at this point.

objection.
THE COURT:

10
11

Overruled.
Q.

12
13

That's my only

No, it isn't quite.

Go ahead.
This is yourself and Dr. Johnson at the

Yacht Club; is that right?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

And didn't -- wasn't there a script

16

prepared for Ms. -- for Dr. Johnson which she read

17

in presenting a blown-up $25,000 check to NMF at

18

this event?
A.

19
20

I, frankly, don't remember what

happened at the event.

Q.

You have no recollection of that at

23

A.

I have no recollection of it.

24

Q.

And was there an event -- an actual

21
22

25

all?

gala event later that fall in November co-chaired

91
1

by Dr. Cheryl Whitaker at which you were honored?

Does this refresh your recollection at all?

A.

This looks familiar.

Yeah, I mean the

-- the truth of the matter is, in the

African-American community and even more broadly,

my wife and I are seen as two top physicians.

if you want people to come to events, you want to

have people who will attract people to come.

my wife and I, for better or for worse, are two of

And

And

10

those type of people.

11

reason I would agree to getting an award is that I

12

thought it would help the actual attendance of the

13

event.

14

Q.

And in fact, that's the only

Well, Dr. Whitaker, do you have any --

15

now having reviewed some documentation, do you have

16

any independent recollection to explain your

17

involvement in the issuance of that grant to AWARE,

18

its presentment of a donation to NMF, and Dr.

19

Dingle's hosting of that event?

20

can you articulate any independent recollection

21

about that at all?

22

A.

Do you have any --

The only thing I'll say is, you know,

23

globally our agency tried to improve the number of

24

women and minorities in health services, be it, you

25

know, nursing services, health, dental, and the

92
1

like.

And this activity was in alignment with

those sort of activities.

Q.

I just have two further areas to ask

you about.

to any benefits or any things -- anything of value

you received from Dr. Dingle.

or attempt to get anything of value for your

brother Larry from Dr. Dingle?

A.

9
10

I've asked you about matters relating

Did you ever solicit

You informed me of something this

morning that I have no recollection of.

Q.

11

Do you have any independent -- do you

12

have any recollection of attempting to help your

13

brother Larry in his printing business by Dr.

14

Dingle?

15
16
17

A.

I do not.

You informed me this

morning.
Q.

Was -- was your brother Larry one of

18

the priority contacts once you became director?

19

This is page 15983, an e-mail from Ms. Golden to

20

yourself and Mr. Slater relating to Larry Whitaker;

21

is that right?

22

A.

23

priority of mine?

24

Q.

25

Are you asking me is my brother a

Is that what you're asking?

I'm asking if your brother was a

priority contact while you were director of Public

93
1

Health?
A.

He must have been because I didn't

write this and, you know, I didn't solicit for

someone to write it for me, so I don't --

Q.

Are you a recipient of this e-mail?

A.

I am.

But, you know, my younger

brother's name is misspelled.

M-a-r-c.

that.

10

Q.

I didn't -- he's

I would have done that, but I didn't do

This is page 17658.

Did you recall

11

that the following month in August that you advised

12

your brother Larry that Tony suggested that you

13

give Mike Rumman a call, that you hoped he got a

14

chance to meet with Mr. Rumman in the future?

15

you see this e-mail from yourself to --

Do

16

A.

I do.

17

Q.

-- Larry Whitaker?

18

A.

I do.

19

Q.

And do you recall his response being,

20

don't forget to check on that practical nursing

21

scholarship program for Pookie?

Do you see that?

22

A.

I do.

23

Q.

Who is Pookie?

24

A.

I believe that's my brother's

25

sister-in-law, I believe.

94
Q.

1
2

Did you provide any assistance to

Pookie to get a nursing scholarship?

A.

I have no idea.

I don't recall that.

Q.

And do you recall that Larry responded

that he would call Mr. Rumman that day?

that?

Do you see

A.

Yep.

Q.

Do you recall that Larry sought

assistance from Milan Petrovic in December of '03

10

regarding his printing company and cc'ing you on

11

that e-mail?

Do you see that?

12

A.

I do.

13

Q.

Do you recall Larry asking you for Dr.

14

Dingle's contact information in April of 2005?

15

A.

I do not.

16

Q.

You don't recall this e-mail?

17

A.

I do not.

18

Q.

Do you recall asking Dr. Cheryl

19

Whitaker for Dr. Dingle's contact information?

A.

20
21

I'm surprised I didn't have it, but I

don't remember that, no.

Q.

22

Do you see this e-mail dated April 25th

23

of '05 from yourself to Dr. Cheryl Whitaker 11

24

a.m.?

25

Do you see that?

A.

I do.

95
Q.

1
2

Asking her if she had Dr. Dingle's

address?

A.

Yep.

Q.

And she responded that Quin is getting

it for me.

that right?

I don't recall this.

She had it but can't find it now.

Is

A.

Yep.

Q.

And did Larry follow up with you in May

of 2005 -- this is page 82181 -- indicating that he

10

hadn't heard from Dr. Dingle and asking again what

11

his contact information was?

Do you see that?

12

A.

I do.

I don't recall it.

13

Q.

You don't recall it?

14

A.

I do not.

15

Q.

And then the next day, on May 8 -- 19th

16

of 2005, do you recall Mr. Larry Whitaker

17

indicating to you that he hadn't heard from Dingle,

18

asking for the contact info, to which you respond

19

with Dr. Dingle's cell phone number and saying that

20

you touched bases with Vic and trying to have

21

dinner tonight.

Do you see that?

A.

I'm reading it here but don't recall

24

Q.

Is that Victor Roberson?

25

A.

I can't tell you because I don't

22
23

this.

96
1

remember what this is.

Q.

Who else would you be -- what other Vic

would there have been that you would have referred

Larry Whitaker to other than -A.

We have a common friend called Vic.

don't know his last name.

You know, there's a number of Vics.

know who he -- do you have an e-mail with me

writing Victor?

There's Victor Golden.

But I don't

I actually don't know who -- I

10

don't recall this, first of all, and I don't know

11

who Vic is.

Q.

12

In the last e-mail on this page, also

13

on the 19th, Larry writes to you indicating that

14

he'd just talked to DD indicating that he was

15

setting Larry up with the compliance lady at Cook

16

County on Monday and then they're going to U of I

17

and Chicago State after that, and then Larry

18

mentions Vic again, tell Vic to kick me some

19

low-dollar, no-bid stuff just to keep me open for

20

now.

Do you recall that e-mail?

21

A.

I do not.

22

Q.

Who -- would there have been another

23

Vic besides Victor Roberson that could have kicked

24

Larry Whitaker some low-dollar, no-bid stuff?

25

A.

I can't answer that for you.

97
1
2
3
4
5

Q.

Do you have any recollection of this at

A.

I have no recollection of this

all?

whatsoever.
Q.

Did you direct Larry to the department

of -- to DHS?

This is an e-mail, page 92257, in

July of 2005 from Larry, cc'ing you, to DHS

referencing his print company.

Do you recall that?

A.

I do not.

10

Q.

Who is Teyonda?

11

A.

Teyonda --

12

Q.

Teyonda Wertz.

13

A.

She was the chief of staff at the

14
15

Department of Human Services, I believe.

Q.

Do you recall this e-mail from you to

16

Ms. Golden advising Ms. Golden that Larry's e-mail

17

you thought had gone to Teyonda Wertz?

18

A.

I can read that.

I don't recall it.

You know, what I would infer from

19
20

reading that particular one is that I didn't really

21

know who it went to, but I thought it was Teyonda.

22

Q.

And then in November of '05, four

23

months later -- this is page 116719 -- do you

24

recall Ms. Velkavrh -- she was an assistant of

25

yourself; is that right?

98
1

A.

She was.

Q.

Do you recall her advising you that she

had received a call from Jackie of Dr. Dingle's

office wanting Dr. Dingle's address and phone

number of your brother's print shop -- wanting the

address and phone number for your brother's print

shop because Dr. Dingle wants to do some business

with him.

A.

I do.

10

Q.

Did you assist your brother Larry in

11

Do you see that?

getting any -- doing any business with Dr. Dingle?

12

A.

I don't recall this at all.

13

Q.

Lastly, Dr. Whitaker, I broached it

14

earlier about your proffer letter with the

15

Government and if that was the only time that you'd

16

met with the Government prior to today.

17

right?

Is that

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

And I asked you if the Government had

20

done anything in that meeting other than ask you to

21

tell the truth and you said no; is that right?

22

A.

I think that's correct.

23

Q.

And you're aware that since 2012 and

24

more particularly in the last six, seven months

25

that the Government has made repeated requests to

99
1

meet with you pursuant to that agreement, to meet

with you privately.

Do you recall that?

A.

I understand.

Q.

Is that true?

A.

I think that's fair.

Q.

And you're aware that one of the issues

that the judge has to decide today is whether or

not you're a hostile witness?

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

Are you a hostile witness?

11

A.

As I think I told you this morning, I'm

12
13

not hostile.
Q.

I'm angry but not hostile.

Well, what's the difference between --

14

what's your understand -- how do you differentiate

15

hostile and angry?

16

A.

I would say that I will be objective

17

and tell the Court what -- answer whatever

18

questions, but personally I'm, you know, upset

19

about this process and how I've been made to look

20

like I'm on trial.

21

answer any question to the extent I can.

22

biased or prejudiced against the Government and

23

will answer questions, as I did this morning for

24

two hours.

25

Q.

So I don't -- you know, I will

I'm not

Have you made negative comments about

100
1

the Government, accusing the Government of

misconduct?
A.

Well, I -- you know, I have some

concerns about it.

And if you're saying did I

express that in private or -- what do you mean by

that?

complained about the fact it's been made to -- to

seem like I'm corrupt.

answering a question, you know, previously was

I've not gone in the newspaper and

And you know, my not

10

really about, you know, an affair.

11

any other question.

12

question.

13

somehow corrupt, so I'm quite angry about that.

14

That doesn't mean I wouldn't do my job as a citizen

15

and answer every question fully that was put to me.

16

Q.

It wasn't about

I answered every other

But it's been made to seem like I'm

Have you ever referred to the

17

Government in a negative way or accused the

18

Government of misconduct?

19

A.

I've not done that in public.

I've

20

certainly amongst -- in the quiet of my friends

21

certainly I have.

22

Q.

23
24
25

Have you referred to -- have you used

expletives to describe the Government?

A.
human, sir.

I'm sure without a doubt I have.

I am

101
1

Q.

And did you today -- in addition to

whatever you may have said in private, did you

today accuse the Government of being politically

and racially motivated?

5
6
7
8
9

A.

You know, I have concerns about that

and I mentioned that to you earlier today.

Q.

And what basis do you have to make that

accusation?
A.

You know, I have to say, you know, as I

10

look at the agency I oversaw that had up to 450

11

million dollars a year and a lot of the activity

12

that you've dealt with was for a ten million dollar

13

piece of the agency, there -- you know, almost

14

everyone who I've seen that's -- that's been

15

convicted or scrutinized has been African-American.

16

And, you know, I have concerns about that, and

17

that's what I mentioned to you.

18

Q.

And is that the basis for your

19

accusation against the Government because the

20

defendants charged -- previously charged have been

21

African-Americans?

22

A.

Is that your only basis?

I mean, again, there's -- we outsourced

23

to a lot of different people in my agency.

There's

24

one area of the agency where the person who headed

25

it left the agency, became a lobbyist, and they now

102
1

head the group that was outsourced to.

They have

not been investigated in the same way.

The only

difference between these two entities is race,

frankly.

was a lot larger.

and knowing all that I know -- and there's a lot

that I've forgotten -- you know, it raises

questions for me.

Q.

And the amount of money for that group

So, you know, so when I sit back

Dr. Whitaker, there have been a number

10

of people charged in connection with the

11

Blagojevich administration, many of whom are not

12

African-American; isn't that right?

13

A.

14

District.

15

district -- I know certainly in Chicago they have.

Q.

16
17
18

I don't know about the Southern

You know, I'm -- or, you know, what

Governor Blagojevich, Lon Monk, Tony

Rezko.
MS. DALTON:

Your Honor, really?

19

even need to object to this?

20

absolutely nothing to do with this.

21
22
23
24
25

THE COURT:
not in trial.

Do I

This is -- has

Now, wait a minute.

We're

We're here in a hearing.

MS. DALTON:

I still am going to object

for the record.

THE COURT:

No, no.

We have -- Mr.

103
1

Bass's questions have all been toward one question

which I have to decide, whether or not Dr. Whitaker

is a hostile witness to the Government.

MS. DALTON:

THE COURT:

MS. DALTON:

10

Okay.
I'm just saying for the

record I'm objecting.

THE COURT:

8
9

I understand the purpose.

Let's don't worry about

anything else at this moment, please.

Thank you

very much.

11

MS. DALTON:

12

THE COURT:

All right.
All right, Mr. Bass.

13

Q.

Isn't that the case, Dr. Whitaker?

14

A.

I think every person you mentioned was

15
16

tried up in Chicago.
Q.

Am I incorrect on that?

Are you aware of other people that have

17

been charged in connection with state government

18

here in the Central District of Illinois?

19

A.

I'm not.

I just read the papers and

20

see, you know, what -- the complexion of the folks

21

who are written about and who I know to be charged,

22

and that concerns me.

23

Q.

Do you support the principle of

24

investigation and ferreting out of wrongdoing and

25

fraud within state government, particularly state

104
1

government that you were a part of?

A.

2
3

What I don't support

is the selective investigation.

Q.

4
5

Without a doubt.

What basis -- what basis do you have

that that happened?

A.

What I just said.

And I told you this

morning it's my observation of the process as

reported in the newsprint, and so I -- you know,

have I done a detailed analysis of the sort of

10

cases that you all have done?

11

about is what I know about and what I've read

12

about.

13

Q.

All I can tell you

Do you have -- I take it you have read

14

a lot and acquired for yourself knowledge to some

15

extent about the investigation and the case; is

16

that right?

17

A.

Yeah.

But what's written in the

18

Chicago and Springfield paper, as well as, you

19

know, on Capitol Fax blog.

20

Q.

And you have made statements yourself

21

to the media about these matters, your time at the

22

Department of Public Health; is that right?

23
24
25

A.

I certainly have made statements

through my media specialist at different times.

Q.

Is that Ms. Halprin?

105
1

A.

That's correct.

Q.

And you said -- do you recall that

there was a statement issued on your behalf

following the Margaret Davis indictment criticizing

the Government's reading of a contract issued to

Ms. Davis?

7
8
9

A.

Do you recall?
You'd have to tell me more about it.

don't know what that -Q.

Do you recall that there was a

10

statement issued on your behalf criticizing an

11

allegation in the Margaret Davis indictment

12

alleging that the Government was reading the grant

13

agreement to -- or, the contract agreement to

14

Ms. Davis too narrowly?

15

A.

I don't recall the statement.

You'd

16

have to present that to me and I can tell you my

17

thoughts about it, but I don't know exactly what

18

we're discussing right now.

19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Q.

Well, you don't -- do you have any

recollection of it?
A.

I don't remember the exact statement

you're talking about.

Q.

Well, would any statement by Ms.

Halprin been issued on your behalf and with your -A.

Yes, it would.

But again, it's

106
1

context.

Do you have the statement?

you what I was thinking.

I can tell

Q.

I'm just asking if you recall.

A.

I don't recall it offhand.

I know this

may shock you, but I've probably been on every

continent in the world, 60 cities in the last two

years, and so I've been a lot of places and done a

lot of things, and, you know, a statement that was

made on my behalf I don't recall.

Q.

10

Do you recall that your spokesperson

11

indicated that Margaret Davis's interns did bona

12

fide work under the supervision of Health

13

Department employees and that prosecutors are

14

interpreting the definition of professional and

15

artistic services too narrowly?

16

work is part of work related to the nursing field.

17

Do you recall that statement being issued on your

18

behalf?

Administrative

19

A.

Yeah.

20

Q.

And do you recall that Ms. Davis pled

21
22

And there's context around that.

guilty to that allegation?

A.

Well, this -- the thing that I think is

23

true about that particular instance, the students

24

-- the money that we had for that program -- it was

25

a program for nursing students.

It actually -- you

107
1

know, we ended up getting students to come work at

the department.

money to Margaret and she shorted one of the

students to my knowledge, who was one of her

relatives, her granddaughter.

know was her granddaughter.

challenge I had around that is that the way it was

portrayed and the way it was played out in the

media was -- that was for $13,000.

We got our work.

We gave the

a person we didn't
And, you know, the

And you can

10

correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding it

11

was for $13,000.

12

and coupled with money from the Department of

13

Commerce and Economic Opportunity that she pled

14

guilty for for $500,000.

15

seem like it came out of my department, when in

16

fact all the work that was -- that we asked for was

17

actually completed.

18

shorted the students and that's wrong, and I agree

19

with that.

20

the media was that it was equivalent to what

21

happened in DCEO where she did no work apparently,

22

and it was all coupled together and made to seem

23

like it came out of my agency.

24
25

Q.

But oftentimes it got discussed

But it was always made to

We got what we paid for.

She

But the way it was always portrayed in

I'm just asking you, Dr. Whitaker, if

you were aware of and authorized your spokesman to

108
1

criticize prosecutors' reading of the grant

agreement?
A.

I mean, I wouldn't characterize it as

-- as, you know, of going after the prosecutors.

wouldn't interpret it that way.

Q.

Finally, I asked you -- you said

earlier that you knew Ms. Adly and that she came to

work for Dr. Cheryl Whitaker at Whitaker Kinne; is

that right?

10
11
12
13
14
15
16

A.

She -- she worked for Whitaker Kinne,

Q.

And are you aware that Ms. Adly has

yes.

been a witness in this case?

A.

Yeah, I heard that, but, you know,

really knew no details of that.

Q.

Did you become aware that she was a

17

witness when there was a motion filed in this case

18

using the initials MA?

19

A.

I'm thinking -- I knew she was a

20

potential witness.

21

she was down here during the time it was happening.

22

Q.

I, frankly, didn't know that

And did you know that Ms. Adly

23

testified to an incident that she stated she

24

observed between Ms. Golden and Dr. Dingle in

25

December of 2007, just after you -- a few months

109
1

after you left the department?

that's the nature of what Ms. Adly was going to

testify about?

A.

Were you aware that

I read a motion that you filed that

talked about the episode.

testified for.

testified.

I didn't know what she

I have no knowledge of what she

Q.

So you read the Government's motion?

A.

I did.

10

Q.

And in that motion it describes what MA

11

is going to testify to relating to an incident

12

involving Ms. Golden and Dr. Dingle; is that right?

13

A.

Yeah.

Yes.

14

Q.

And that was -- and so you read the

15

motion and that was during the time that Ms. Adly

16

was employed at Whitaker Kinne; is that right?

17

A.

That's correct.

18

Q.

Are you aware of the fact that --

19

whether or not Dr. Cheryl Whitaker communicated

20

with Ms. Adly prior to this trial that the

21

Government had no evidence on Dr. Dingle and that

22

he was going to get off?

23

A.

You know, you mentioned this earlier

24

today, and my wife said no such thing happened.

25

So, you know, what I will say is that I followed

110
1

the motions quite closely because my life is

intertwined with this.

needlessly.

know, even though I was aware of what was going on

in the motions and what was being played out in the

paper, I never informed my wife of it.

she came to me probably -- you know, I don't

remember the time frame.

two weeks after a newspaper article appeared about

You know, I would say

You would say otherwise.

The -- you

In fact,

It may have been two --

10

this, and she saw it that late and brought it up to

11

me.

12

wife, I was trying not to have her have any

13

knowledge of it because my sense was Marian would

14

try to file some kind of retaliatory action against

15

her.

16

But I really -- because Marian worked for my

Q.

And are you aware that on the day of or

17

within the day or two prior -- prior to Ms. Adly's

18

testimony in this trial that Dr. Cheryl Whitaker

19

called Ms. Adly into her office and advised

20

Ms. Adly that she didn't trust her and she was

21

going to let her go?

22

A.

I talked to my wife in the break

23

between the morning session and she said no such

24

thing happened.

25

partners dealt with Marian specifically and she

She said that in fact her two

111
1

stayed away from Marian, in fact hadn't talked to

Marian in two months.

at the break.

That's what my wife told me

Q.

It was just Friday --

A.

Could I add one other thing?

Q.

Sure.

A.

You know, the way -- my wife is, as I

mentioned earlier, is CEO of two companies.

Marian

is a consultant or was initially a consultant on

10

the consulting side, and my wife has been spending

11

her side on another business that has another set

12

of people that works with it.

13

or 30 people who work with her.

14

same office complex separated.

15

talked to each other, mainly because Marian, you

16

know, hasn't been coming to work and so -- but --

17

so my wife really had no knowledge of it, but her

18

partners dealt with Marian in terms of her

19

employment and discussions about her -- her work

20

habits and that sort of thing.

21

Q.

I think she has 20

They are in the
So they have not

Have you made any allegations other --

22

other than the ones I just asked you about,

23

accusing the Government of improperly leaking

24

information to the media?

25

A.

You know, I have some concerns, yes,

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1

and I -- privately I've talked to people.

There

have been questions submitted to me by newspaper

reporters that, you know, if -- if you were to FOIA

the information from the Illinois Department of

Public Health, you would not have received.

can only get it via subpoena.

have concerns about that.

You

And so, you know, I

Q.

What information are you talking about?

A.

I can't recall.

You know, one of the

10

reporters sent me fairly early on a long, extensive

11

list of questions asking about if I had a second

12

home and did I do this, and those are not the

13

questions I'm talking about, but there were a long

14

list of questions and --

15

Q.

Dr. Whitaker, that's a serious

16

allegation that you're making that the Government

17

leaked information to the media.

18

telling us that you don't recall what the

19

information is that you say could not have been

20

gotten from a FOIA request?

21

A.

And now you're

You know what, as I mentioned, I've --

22

I've been doing a lot of things.

I've been busy

23

starting companies, doing a lot of things the last

24

couple years.

25

was like, how does a FOIA get you to this kind of

I know at the time I looked at it I

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personnel information?

matter.

of questions.

4
5

I think it was a personnel

I can't recall because it was a long list

Q.

Are indictments of public record and

available to all members of the public?

A.

This was before an indictment.

Q.

Are you aware that grand jury subpoenas

issued to state agencies are FOIA available, FOIA

requestable, and required by the State of Illinois

10
11

to be granted to the media?

A.

Not a personnel -- there's certain

12

things that are not FOIAable.

13

Personnel items are one of those things.

14

Q.

They're shielded.

Do you have any basis, any information,

15

any evidence that the Government leaked any

16

information to the media?

17

A.

I will certainly, you know, go and try

18

to find that information.

The thing that -- you

19

know, also recently, when a reporter called up, you

20

know, it was said that they were directed to look

21

at the pretrial transcripts to find out the

22

information about Ms. Golden.

23

who directed them there?

24

speculating here that, you know, certainly the

25

defense was not trying to direct people to a

And the question is,

You know, I -- I'm

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pretrial transcript that happened a month ago.

Someone did that.

that's -- you know, it's just suspicious to me.

That's all I'm saying.

And, you know, who that is,

But that at the end of the day does not

minimize that I will do my civic duty to -- if Leon

Dingle has done something, I will testify

truthfully about it, and, you know, let the chips

fall where they may.

10

I will not protect him in

that instance.
Q.

11

And prior to Friday, Friday afternoon

12

-- was it Friday afternoon when you through your

13

counsel advised the Government that you'd be

14

willing to meet with the Government for the first

15

time --

16

A.

That's correct.

17

Q.

-- Monday, this morning?

18

A.

Yep.

19

Q.

And has the Government either this

20

morning or two years ago asked you to do anything

21

other than tell the truth?

22

A.

That's all I've done.

23

Q.

And could all of this been avoided --

24

could all of this been avoided, this hearing, the

25

motion, had you agreed to meet with the Government

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when we first asked you to privately?

A.

You know, I've asked myself that

question, and I, frankly, came to the conclusion

no.

So ...

Q.

What basis do you have to believe that?

A.

It's a belief.

So, it's -- you know,

it's not -- you know, it's not grounded in any

fact.

MR. BASS:

12
13

Thank you, Dr. Whitaker.

That's all the questions I have, Your

10
11

It's a belief.

Honor.
THE WITNESS:

the opportunity to present.

14

THE COURT:

15

THE WITNESS:

16

Thank you very much for

You may step down, Doctor.

Thank you, sir.

(Witness excused)

17

THE COURT:

18

MR. BASS:

Mr. Bass?
Your Honor, that's -- in

19

light of your ruling that we proceed with the

20

testimony without the filing of the recording, I

21

have no further evidence -- we have no further

22

evidence to present, and I would leave it to -- I

23

would leave it to Your Honor's discretion and

24

counsel's desire as to whether or not Your Honor

25

reviews that videorecording.

I don't believe it's

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1
2

necessary at this point to file it of record.

THE COURT:

That's exactly why I did

not want to listen to it because of the objections

that I think were validly made, and so we went

right to the source, which was to get Dr. Whitaker

up here under oath.

And my entire purpose of this is to

determine whether under Rule 61(c)(2) whether or

not he is a hostile witness, an adverse party, or a

10

witness identified with an adverse party.

11

conclusion after hearing the testimony that Dr.

12

Whitaker has given us is that he is hostile to the

13

Government and I declare him to be such.

14

All right.

And my

Now, that ought to take

15

care of that matter right then and there.

16

up to the Government to decide whether or not they

17

call Dr. Whitaker.

18
19
20
21

It is 4:30.

MR. BASS:

Your Honor, I just repeat

what I said -THE COURT:

23

MR. BASS:

25

So we've been here two and

a half hours.

22

24

Now it's

Yeah.
-- I believe on Friday.

Mr. Pogue is on the stand now.

THE COURT:

He is.

117
MR. BASS:

1
2

besides Dr. Whitaker to call.

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

All right.
We will not be calling Dr.

Whitaker as our last witness.

I'd like an opportunity to confer with

6
7

We have one other witness

Mr. Long and our --

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

Oh, sure.
-- our team here, for lack

10

of a better phrase, as to whether we make the

11

decision to call Dr. Whitaker, in light of Your

12

Honor's ruling, following Mr. Pogue tomorrow, which

13

I expect his -- I would expect his testimony to

14

conclude sometime tomorrow.

15

to advise Your Honor what our decision is first

16

thing in the morning.

THE COURT:

17
18

And I'll be prepared

All right.

fine.

19

MR. BASS:

20

making progress on the exhibits.

21

THE COURT:

22

MR. BASS:

23

That'll be

And, Your Honor, we are

Yes.
I think that will continue

for some time maybe this afternoon --

24

THE COURT:

25

MR. BASS:

Good.
-- and in the morning.

And

118
1

we are --

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

with all the Government exhibits.

groups.

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

There are 22

All right.

Fine.

And then they will proceed

to the defense exhibits, Your Honor.

THE COURT:

9
10

We're just about completed

I believe they're on 21, Group 21.

Ready to go.

Excellent.

That will be

fine.

11

Now, anything further at this time?

12

Anybody given any more thought or

13

problem to our jury makeup, considering that one

14

juror?

15

the jury clerk to inquire of her first thing in the

16

morning to see what this vacation and so forth

17

actually is and if it isn't something superfluous

18

or -- it might be very big to her, but in the

19

scheme of our world that we're living in here.

20

that all right?

21

I have a note here that I'm going to ask

Is

Anything further on that?

MR. BASS:

Your Honor, the only other

22

thing I was going to suggest is -- I know Mr.

23

Genson asked that Your Honor excuse the juror.

24

the only thing I would ask that you do before you

25

decide to do that is ask the juror directly.

And

She

119
1

has sat here through six weeks of trial.

want to proceed in lieu of taking her vacation.

think -- I think whether the decision to excuse

her, I think that should include --

THE COURT:

MR. BASS:

THE COURT:

She may
I

Her.
-- her.
All right.

I have no

problem.
Do you have any problem with that?

MS. DALTON:

10

No.

I would agree with

11

that.

But if Your Honor wants to question the

12

juror personally, then I would just ask that it not

13

be in the presence of all the other jurors.

14

MR. BASS:

15

THE COURT:

Agreed.
Okay.

Well, let me first

16

have the jury clerk inquire of her just what the

17

background is, and then we'll see what -- what it

18

is, and then probably ask her to step in here by

19

herself before the rest of the jury comes in and

20

have a little discussion with her.

21

MR. BASS:

22

MS. DALTON:

23
24
25

Is that okay?

That's fine, Your Honor.

Absolutely.

Yes, Your

Honor.
THE COURT:

Okay, fine.

put it on that basis then.

Well, let's

120
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So good luck with the papers.

MR. BASS:

THE COURT:

Thank you, Judge.

You bet.

Thank you, all.

We'll stand in recess till 10:00 tomorrow morning.

(Court was then in recess.)

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I, DOROTHY J. HART, CSR, RPR, Freelance Court

Reporter, certify that the foregoing is a correct

transcript from the record of proceedings in the

10

above-entitled matter.

11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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/s/ Dorothy J. Hart

__________________________
CSR License No. 084-001390