Butch Vig: Abbey Road Pictorial

TAPEOP
A Magazine About Creative Music Recording
Butch Vig
Abbey Road Pictorial
Garbage & Smart Studios
a week recording with Elliott Smith in London
DJShadow
Knitting Factory Studio
samplers, turntables & downtime
with Sascha Van Oertzen and the Trident console
Royal Trux
Recording 1960s
Avant-Garde Jazz in Chicago
their home studio fun
Ray Carmen
An Intro to Analog Tape

Splicing &Editing
in Cassette Corner
Neutral Milk Hotel
I s s u e
N o .
1 1
W i n t e r
1 9 9 8 / 9 9
Welcome
to issue number eleven of Tape Op.
If youre a long time reader you may notice
a difference; more pages, ads for gear, and a
new look. This is because we have a new publishing deal with
my friends at Substance Media Works. Theyve agreed to take on

the design, ad sales, printing and distribution of Tape Op and Ill
retain the editors role. This is a good thing since the business end
of the magazine has become a bit overwhelming, and this will
allow us to print more pages and more copies. This means well
reach lots more people and allows us to offer Tape Op free to
qualified readers like you! Adam Selzer, who helped dig us out of
the overload, remains a fixture at the Portland office, filling back
orders, picking up the mail and checking out new CDs. Theres also
a lot of new writers; some of them avid readers and some former
interviewees. We thank them all.
Theres many projects still in the works here at Tape Op World
Headquarters. The proposed collection of back issues into a big
magazine compendium will now include issues 1 through 10 and
well be trying to get that together soon. Until then, only 8
through 10 are available as back issues. Were also collecting the
final tracks for a Tape Op compilation CD. This will be out soon,
available separately from the magazine via mail order or from your
favorite local record store. There is a great variety of artists and
recording mediums on this album, from Bill Foxs 4 track cassette
work to Robert Poss Akai 16 track digital recording. The cool
thing is that a lot of these songs were recorded at home or at
private studios and they all sound great! Look for it soon. Anyway,
enjoy Tape Op, and I hope everyone learns something new and
starts tracking!
Larry Crane, Editor
P.S. If this is your first issue of Tape Op; Hi and welcome aboard!
p a g e
Contents:
3
5
9
14
17
20
22
26
28
31
36
39
43
Letters to Tape Op
Sascha Van Oertzen and the Knitting Factory Studios
Elliott Smith, Joanna Bolme and Abbey Road Studios
Tape Editing
DJ Shadow
Cassette Corner w/ Ray Carmen
Royal Trux
Neutral Milk Hotel
Scott Colburn
Butch Vig
Tape Op Reviews
History: Chicago Avant-Garde Jazz
Larrys End Rant
turn the page and check it out >>>
Letters To
Tape Op
Do you know a simple, clean (cheap) way to
Ive been enjoying Tape Op for a few
months now, and I thought youd be pleased to boost my 20-40 Hz range on a single track of
know that I received all the back issues of your my mixer? Im wondering if there is a simple
fine publication as payment from my friend Joe circuit I could buy or make that would give me
for recording his band. Your thinking and a several dB 30 Hz boost on a channel or two
writing seem to be directly in line with mine. It via the inserts. My mixer calls 70 Hz low end
is great to see that youve avoided the better- and it sounds like ass on a kick drum.
CK, via internet
faster-quieter-louder pitfall of virtually every
other REC rag Ive ever seen. For this, you
30 Hz is very, very low. Most stereos dont
deserve at least a hot dog and a can of Pabst, reproduce it very well. I find that I boost the kick
but probably much more.
lows more in the 50 to 80 Hz range, but actually
I have questions to which I have been unable spend more time working on the mids. You can
to find answers: The Electro-Voice 6 series from get cheap, half decent outboard EQ and plug it
the late 50s. I have a 630 and love it for over- in. Im not enough of a gear head to tell you how
driven electric guitars, and used it tons on our to change the potentiometer on your mixer but
record. I also used a 605 for the first time Ill bet you could do it by altering a single
recently, and loved it as well. Ive heard capacitor. Good luck!
legendary things about Satans microphone, the
666, which Brian Wilson used for vox on Pet
Sounds, but they are difficult to find and apparently very spendy at this point. My
questions involve the middle models, the 635,
644, and 664... where are they? What do they
sound like? Where can I get the crazy almostbut-not-quite-Shure type connectors for them,
if I do find one? Theres loads of ads for them
in my old audio mags, but I cant find any of
them anywhere, be it a thrift store or Trading
Musician. Blah, blah, blah. Lame equipment
dork talk. At least I know that you understand,
whether you care or not. Its good that way. Big
hugs and kisses. I await each new issue with
I have one serious question to ask if you dont
baited (and very unpleasant) breath.
mind. How in the hell does anyone go about getChris Walla, Death Cab For Cutie/The Hall of ting the money for all that stuff? I have a serious
Justice Recording, Bellingham, WA
passion for this recording thing and I think I make
Uhh, I dont have any big secrets to

purchasing gear. Im way far in debt because of
it but I do have a steady job recording bands!
Keep an eye out for really good deals, subscribe
to ProAudioMarketplace, etc. I forgot about the
Maximum Rock and Roll interview. That was
before the crew at Substance Media Works
rescued me.
I would like to see more articles on
recording different genres of music, like
reggae, techno, etc. Maybe an article on how
to make loops with reels and cassettes. I
would like to see interviews with Stereolab
and Bill Yurkiewicz. The older Stereolab CDs
are really good, especially on vinyl. They used
all analog equipment and everything sounds
really warm. Bill Yurkiewicz is from
Relapse/Release Records. They release
mostly grind/metal shit but for the last few
years theyve been putting out a lot of
noise/experimental records, which is what Im
into. Anyway, they put out some CDs that will
destroy your stereo and/or components if
played too loudly.
Sam Crawford, Lancaster, OH
Blah, blah, blah. Lame equipment

dork talk. At least I know that you
understand, whether you care or not.
Its good that way. Big hugs and kisses.
I await each new issue with baited
(and very unpleasant) breath.
TAPEOP
I personally dont know anything about the EV

600 series mics but if any readers do, drop me a
line. As far as finding them, Ill once again give
a hearty plug to the ProAudioMarketplace, a
monthly newsletter full of classified ads from
studios and gear brokers. You can subscribe to it
at 1-800-469-8023.
Send Letters & Questions

to: editor@tapeop.com
3 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording
I like the idea of destroying peoples stereos.

Stereolab are a favorite band of mine, although
I also tend to prefer the early records.
Grind/Metal shit? Oh my, Im not so sure about
a decent living, but damn, after all the cash I have
that!
tied up in drums, guitars etc.. the only things I
could get were a Tascam 424-4trk, a little effects
Ive looked at the glossy home/professional
thingy, a Nanocompressor (that I dont know how recording magazines in the past, and some of
to use) and a couple of Shure 57s. Thats like a their technical pieces are worth a read. But your
thousand dollars or something. I cant even imag- emphasis on exploring the limits of (and having
ine owning one ADAT and a little mixing board, not fun with) whatever equipment is at hand at
to mention a DAT machine and other bare necessi- least raises the issue whether pounding more
ties. Please let me in on the big secret! Thank you. money into a recording effort actually produces
P.S. please keep doing Tape Op, ya sounded kinda better results, and at best reaffirms my faith in
sick of it in that Maximum Rock and Roll interview. human ingenuity.
Bill Valentine, Jackson, MS
Kevin Fitzgerald, Eden Prarie, MN
continued on the next page>>>
Letters
Continued
TAPEOP
A Magazine About Creative Music Recording
Editor
If theres an abiding concern behind Tape Op, it is to turn people on to using what theyve got and to have fun recording.
Recording gear is neat to have, but when youve got little you
should still be tracking!
I recently sold my 4 track and jumped up to 8 track. I have a TSR
8 machine which is perfect but here is the problem. I bought this
board that looked nice and simple with nice big VU meters but it
turned into a nightmare. It is the Tascam M-50 12x8. The thing is
insane and I just cant figure out what the hell is going on. Jason
Knight (Miner St. Recording) has been over a few times and he is
just like, This thing is fucked up, not that it is broke, just that it is
made to be confusing and not to work like other mixers. Did you
ever come across one of these boards? Do you know anyone who has
one? Is the board really nuts or are we just stupid?
Jason DiEmilio (Colorful Clouds for Acoustics/The Azusa Plane),
Clifton Heights, PA
Jason, Thanks for writing. Ive never seen one of those boards, and
if a seasoned vet like Jason cant figure it out I dunno. Advice? Get a
Mackie? Anyone know this board at all?
Ive been 4-tracking since 1993, on a Fostex 260 cassette. Ive been
saving up my pennies so I can graduate up to an 8-track reel-to-reel.
The problem I have is that 1/2 tape is so expensive at $60 a pop for
40 minutes of tape. The bands I know cant afford this, and as much
recording as I do in the basement, the cost would kill me. My question
then, is there an eight track 1/4 reel-to-reel out there, because I have
not been able to find one. Who makes one? Can I find one used? I think
this will bring my recordings up to the next level but everyone has
either 1/2 or ADAT.
Richard Ashley, Independence, MO
#1, 1/2 tape should cost more like $37 to $40 a reel (new) and
should yield you 33.3 minutes of recording time. Ways around this tape
cost include: Buying used tape, which Ive seen for as little as $10; but
be careful, sometimes it falls apart. Reusing tape once its been mixed
down; I rent reels to bands and give them the option to purchase them
later. I ran a studio in my basement for several years and rarely had a
band complain about the cost of the 1/2 tape. #2, there are 1/4 eight
track decks out there. Fostex and Tascam made a few models which
sound decent, although I can guarantee that the 1/2 tape sounds better, and companies like Otari made some durable decks.
Larry Crane
Contributing Writers
Rob Christensen, Curtis Settino, Heather Mount, John Holkeboer,
Steve Silverstein, John Vanderslice, Eric Stenman, Leigh Marble,
Scott Simmons, Joanna Bolme & Dewey Mahood
Contributing Photographers
Jeff Gros, Chris Carnel, Sonny Mayugba, John Baccigaluppi,
Tony Michels, Stephane Sednaoui, Joseph Cultice, Joanna Bolme,
Heather Mount, Taylor Crothers & Greg Roberts
Creative Director & Designer

John Baccigaluppi
The Proofreading and Typing Team

Jane Cowan, Marila Alvares, Lindsey Thrasher, Jenna Sather
Production Asst. &Office Manager

Tommy Ryan
Mail Answerer and Order Filler

Adam Selzer
Transcribing Heroes
Matthew Mair Lowery and Anne Elchikawa
Editorial Office
(for submissions, letters, CDs for review. CDs for review are also
reviewed in the Sacramento office, address below)
P.O. Box 86409, Portland, OR 97286 voicemail 503-208-4033
editor@tapeop.com
All unsolicited submissions and letters sent to us become the property of Tape Op.
Advertising
Pro Audio, Studios & Record Labels: John Baccigaluppi

(916) 444-5241, (john@tapeop.com)
Pro Audio & Ad Agencies:
Laura Thurmond/Thurmond Media
512-529-1032, (laura@tapeop.com)
Marsha Vdovin
415-420-7273, (marsha@tapeop.com)
Printing: Matt Saddler
@ Democrat Printing, Little Rock, AR
Subscriptions are free in the USA:

Subscribe online at tapeop.com
(Notice: We sometimes rent our subscription list to our advertisers.)
Canadian & Foreign subscriptions, see instructions at www.tapeop.com
Circulation, Subscription and Address Changes

will be accepted by email or mail only. Please do not telephone.
We have an online change of address form <tapeop.com> or you can
email <circulation@tapeop.com> or send snail mail to
PO Box 160995. Sacramento, CA 95816
See tapeop.com for Back Issue ordering info
Postmaster and all general inquiries to:
TAPEOP
www.tapeop.com
free subscriptions online!
Tape Op Magazine, PO Box 160995, Sacramento, CA 95816

(916) 444-5241 | tapeop.com
Tape Op is published by Single Fin, Inc. (publishing services)
and Jackpot! Recording Studio, Inc. (editorial services)
Interview & photos by

Heather Mount
Sascha & the

Triumphant
Trident
Console
an interview with
TAPEOP
Sascha von Oertzen,

studio manager of
New Yorks Knitting Factorys
Recording Studio
A studio manager juggles responsibilities

and must also find the time and space for
creativity. It takes a level head and a
scopic vision to stay sane and to be
brilliant. Knitting Factory Recording
Studio manager Sascha Van Oertzen runs
her Studio with an ease that only comes
from mixing experience with creative
vision. The history of the Knitting Factorys
recording studio is almost as old as the
history of the club itself. Many remember
the Knitting Factory from its days on
Houston St.; it is in this location that a
robbery of the club in its early years nearly
wiped out the clubs existence for good.
That was almost ten years ago, and since
then the club has grown and moved to a
more spacious location Downtown in
Tribeca. The Knitting Factory remains a
club with its feet firmly planted in jazz
music and most things experimental, with
four venues in the club, a festival
production company, and a great record
label that appropriately called Knitting
Factory Records. Sascha Van Oertzen is a
29 year old woman who is a graduate of the famed Tonemeister Program of the University of Arts in
Berlin. Saschas daily grind includes doing live recordings of some Knitting Factory performances, and
also recording albums for either Knitting Factory Records or Kramers Shimmy Disc. Sascha is candid,
honest, warm, and distinctly confident. She is a class-A troubleshooter, and thinks so hard about this
its like you can almost hear the cogs working as she thinks. As we speak I have to keep reminding myself
that this is someone whose first language is not English- Saschas vernacular and attitude is as New
York Downtown as any other Knitting Factory regular. Before she decided to go to this school, Sascha
was a musician who wanted to do something with music but didnt really want to be a musician.
Wondering, what else is there? she found that recording and engineering was a program that offered
many aspects towards engaging with music. Sascha described that in her program, you had to play
instruments and study music, while participating in various technical faculties of the University- you then
get studio experience recording and get experience from practical work. The idea is that you learn music
and have the same experience a musician has in order to work with them...
So what instruments do you

play?
Piano, sort of... everybody has to play piano in
order to study ear training, theory, and
composition studies. And then I play drums
as another instrument.
I heard that you are a very, very

good drummer...
You did! From whom?
Yeah, everybody from Frank

London (Klezmatics) to...
They never heard me play really... [blushing!]
TAPEOP
Well, they told me all about it!

James Blood Ulmer (Odyssey
Band) said so too. Who did you
study with?
becomes really important. The musician wants Wow!

to work with someone they can trust who is Yeah. Even worse was when they heard I wanted
not just doing something. This is where Lee
to study drums. They were like, I dont think
Townsend again was a huge influence...
this is going to work. But, sometimes they
Fill us all in on who Lee Townsend
just put that in there cuz they know its hard,
and if you dont have like a really strong will
is...
to do it, they just want you to question it.
Oh, he produces Bill Frisell, and he has done
But I was like, What the hell? Fuck it, I want
several John Scofield records. He also does a
to do this. Is it really up to you to decide?
bunch of singer-songwriter stuff too. He also
knows Jerry Granelli and David Freedman, Did that make you feel aggressively
who are great American jazz guys. What was
like you wanted to do it even
really thrilling was learning about the process
more?
of recording, mixing and then putting the Maybe a little bit, sure.
whole project together... its really deep. Its What brought you here to the
not just putting the mic up and then you
Knitting Factory? Youve been
have a recording that you put out! Its really
here about a year now, right?
sitting down with a musician and trying to Yes, I came here by coincidence. I was visiting
understand what they want, what their tone
the city and they were looking for an engineer
is, what they are going for and then helping
at the Knitting Factory. I never really had
them to create that. Thats a pretty big part
thought about it, I mean, I never really
of the whole thing and thats what makes it
thought about moving to New York, but I knew
really exciting and really fun. To be that
the Knitting Factory and I knew musicians who
close, to have that much input, ideas and
played here. I dropped by and right away ran
creativity for the whole process.
into Michael and Ed, had a quick interview and
Well, his name is Jerry Granelli and hes from

San Francisco, and he teaches a jazz faculty
in Berlin. The school, in the beginning, was
very classical oriented, which is where I
started. It was very much about stereo
techniques and the whole classical scene is a
little more into the sounds that you get from
a good room. As the jazz faculty developed
dropped off a resume and some CDs I had
and got stronger I was more into jazz. I just I have to ask... Do you think that
there
are
more
or
less
female
made. I got some recommendations from Lee
wanted to get into the studio and try out
producers and engineers in
Townsend and others... within a couple of
stuff recording. One day there was a big CD
Germany than here?
months I had the job.
project workshop that was between the jazz
Whats the routine like here in
faculty and the engineering faculty, and
Its something more
the studio?
producer Lee Townsend was invited for that.
lively,
less
about
The
normal week almost doesnt exist, it is
That was a big kick, a huge inspiration and
always different. There could be label
motivation for me to get into jazz.
reproducing and more
projects, or people from the outside or
What were some of the things that
about creating
shows... People from the outside, meaning
drew you in?
something new.
either people who want to record something
Well, first of all its the music. The improvisation
here, or want to have their show recorded
part, the creativity, and personal expression
I
was
thinking
actually
that
it
is
more
rare
in
here. Thats great sometimes! Like we did this
of the musicians; this whole process has
Germany...
probably
a
bit
more
conservative
one track on Don Byrons new recording and
always fascinated me. Its something more
over
there.
Maybe
there
is
a
quarter
of
the
those are thrilling experiences! At the Don
lively, less about reproducing and more about
whole
business
that
is
female.
Of
course,
just
Byron and Biz Markee show, I met producers
creating something new. Working with Lee
because you go to school, that doesnt mean
and other engineers like Chris Whitley and
Townsend and having him as the person in
everybody gets to work afterwards. I think in
Craig Street who are there to do it. There is a
between the technical part and the musician
general, Germany is a little more conservative
huge variety that comes through here;
was really exciting, because he knew both
still. You need the papers, the references; you
peoples names that you read on records and
sides and he knew how to help communicate.
get
less
of
a
chance
to
go
ahead
and
prove
then you finally get to meet those people and
For the engineers, to learn how to communithat
you
are
good.
They
want
more...
I
dont
work with them!
cate with the musiciansand for the
know
the
word..uh
Umm...I
dont
know,
like
What have been some of the most
musicians, how to communicate more about
opinions ahead of time. Its different than
fun projects of the last year?
the technical side. The whole process of
here. At school, you have to make an James Blood Ulmer was really really fun to
multitrack recording is much more interesting
entrance test and they know there are very
work with...
to me than the stereo recording in classical,
few jobs out there so they limit the students James Blood is just great all
jazz and rock music. I mean now, even
that can be part of that program. There are
classical projects get more into multitrack
around.
only like 4 or 5 a semester. I mean, when I Yeah! His whole band is really great and the
recordings as well, but more of like a backup
got interviewed for the position they were
if they need to. But the process of mixing is
whole vibe was very, very celebration-like
like, Well, how do you think you are going to
really fun- its where the creativity is, where
even! It was hard work too, but the whole
do this job if you are going to have a family?
the input is, and its where the relationship
session was really relaxed and exciting to
And I was like, whoa!
between the musician and the engineer
record it..
How long did it take to record it?

One day. The recording session was one day, and
the mixing was another day or two. Thats
how some people do it - Briggan Krauss was
one of the most pleasant recording sessions I
have ever done. Their vibe together was so
goodthey played together so well they just
had so much fun themselves, and were never
too hard on each other.
them, they are like, We want to make sure

everything is cool to us and their attitude is
like, I dont care if I fuck up your job or not!
I am like, Well, ok, so do you want me to do
this recording or not? There are times when
the cooperation isnt good, and there is not
understanding going on. Then I get to feeling
like, well, I will just do my job and not really work with the person
Do you find that there are big That must be hard.

differences between recording jazz
musicians and rock musicians ?
Not like the actual one...

Yes! The actual one-You could ask Kramer about
this. Trident ADB series, for people who want
to know.
How many channels?

30 inputs- we have a 24 track analog machine,
a Sony MCI. The two together have a warm
sound which is really really good.
And that was all acquired back in

February or January this year?
Well, no. There are plenty of jazz sessions that

are not like that. And there are all kinds of
ways to record, which is what I learned from
experiences I had with Lee Townsendyou
could work on one guitar solo, just play
single notes and make that another great
solo, that can happen too! But since we are
a live set up anyway, we dont have that kind
of overdubbing, headphone situation, the
best sessions are kind of when people just
play and dont get into a lot of fixing and
overdubbing stuff in our setup.
Yeah, we worked on integrating it all until

April or May.
And before that it was done on...
TAPEOP
If I may ask, what have been some Yes! It can also be really hard if a musician is
of the worst experiences- like
not happy with what they are doing, it can
be really really hard, because they want to do
the frustrating parts?
There are some things that are related just to
having any job! But, a couple of things
happen with personalities-where there is a
chauvinistic attitude. Not just me being a
woman on the job, but maybe just the
ignorance to how much work the engineering
job is or how much I actually try to make
something good. In the end its in the service
of the musicians. If something isnt right for
it over and over and just like... hard vibes!
Everything tends to come out when

you try to record itAbsolutely.
A little Mackie mixer, which are totally fine but

didnt have any character, like the mic pres
dont really have any. All we had before was
the Mackie and two DA 88s and a little bit of
outboard gear. The Trident console is the
main difference. The 24 track is not as good
for live recordingsits just asking for too
much troublebut also we have this EMT
reverb plate, which is really really cool and a
bunch of tube vintage compressors...
What is some of the studios gear

that you have most fun with?
Ahhh, which ones?
The Trident console! Its actually the one that UREI LA 4 and 1176s and a Drawmer 1960...
Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon was
and a lot of ADR stereo compressors and
recorded onsome great reverbs like the EMT plate, the
Lexicon 224 and PCN 90. The best sounding

working with young bands and helping them Yeah.... Oh, I remember what I wanted to say
reverbs you can get nowadays. Also the
earlier. I find more respect here in the States
put their projects out. Thats really thrilling
Roland R 880. We also have a lot of great
than I experienced in Germany. I feel more
to see.
mics now, like some Neumanns and a few Would that be having your own
like other producers take me seriously, and
87s and 84s AKGs, 414s and the new Blue
give me the opportunity to just show what
studio to do the producing in?
Line Series, and the usual RE 20s, 421s,
you are good at- not thinking, Youre a
57s, 58s...
woman. Or you are younger, or you are
Its where the creativity
not dressed the part or...
Any other fun gadgets in there?
is, where the input is,
The studio isnt physically big enough to hold
Exactly.
and its where the
I was touring with a band here in the States and
too much more. The most fun is the board,
I was a little worried. I was young, I am not
the console- the monitors, HD 1s, Meyer
relationship between the
too aggressive anyway, and they just let me...
Sound. The studio is just the control room,
musician and the
well they just sort of served it to you! Like,
with a little overdub booth. The tapeengineer becomes
this is what youve got, this is how it works
machine room can be used as an overdub
and it was just really cool. Which doesnt
room. All the spaces we record in.
really important.
mean that all things over here in the States
Like upstairs in the main space?
are like that.
Yeah, all the stages are wired to the studio, so I mean, I am in charge of this studio, and thats
we can use the main stage, the AlterKnit, or
enough. I dont need to own it. I have New York is not an easy place to get
whatever
always enjoyed doing live sound and thats
started...
whats cool here- I can do both. I can record Yeah, I mean that was just one good
Ooooh, so they are wired there?
live and do studio work. Thats pretty ideal for
Um hm.
experience....
me now. The set up is exactly what I want to
This place keeps you busy. What do
do- a big variety of music, a lot of
you want to do in the future? Do
opportunities to meet people, to be involved
you want to start your own studio
in a label, and sort of do the live thing
or become a musician again, or..
collects interviews & articles from issues 11-20 of Tape Op Magazine
the Book About Creative Music Recording
TAPE OP VOL. II
TAPEOP
Well, I really would like to go into the producing Its cool how the whole package
works together herearea, which I had done in Berlin before; just
After being
briefly out
of print,
Tape Op Vol. II
is now in its
3rd printing
and available
wherever
good books
are sold!
TAPEOP
Elliott Smith, Sam Coomes, Rob Schnapf, Tom Rothrock

and Tape Ops very own Joanna Bolme
live out their Abbey Road Studios fantasy.
This is a story about how I got to live my

fantasy of walking through the door of the
building at 3 Abbey Road and saying, Were
working in studio two. Its second only to the
one where I walk through the door and the
receptionist says Good morning Mr. Martin.
This was made possible by my generous friend
Elliott Smith, whom I believe had a similar
fantasy. We were joined by our buddies Rob
Schnapf and Tom Rothrock, who took care of
the recording duties, and Sam Coomes from
Quasi, the best rock band in the world.
(Insert Beatles fantasy here.) I open my eyes.

Rob and Tom have arrived and are inspecting
the drum set. All the cymbals but the hi-hat
have been nixed. The heads have to go too.
They want Remo Ambassador coated top and
clear bottom. Excuse me Tom, theres a Joey
Waronker on the phone for you. Everyone,
Tell him to come over! Joey played drums
on a couple songs from Elliotts album, XO,
and happened to be in town with R.E.M. He
has just arrived at the studio and is now on
the phone with another music store. It seems
to be a bit more complicated to rent gear in
London than LA. He is being very patient and
speaking very calmly. He sounds like my
chiropractor right before the big adjustment.
Now what I would like to do, is have you
bring me some of these cymbals, and some of
these, and two of these, and Ill try them out
and send back the ones I dont want to use.
Do you think we can do that? After 15
minutes of hypnosis, they agree. Elliott is
downstairs working on a new song, the rest of
us discuss very important things while we
wait for the gear to arrive. Excuse me Tom,
whos the Nuge? asks Paul. Okay were
recording now. Sam is attempting play
without using headphones. This turns out to
be impossible as the delay from one side of
the room to the other is too long for him to
keep time with the drums. After a good take
we listen back. We all marvel at the sound of
the room. It really has a sound. Now if we
just had an old board instead of this damn
thing. says Rob.
TAPEOP
Excuse me Tom, whos the Nuge? -Paul

Elliott, Sam and I arrive at studio two
around noon. We walk into the control room
and meet friendly house engineers Paul Hicks
and Chris Bolster. Rob and Tom have taken a
wrong turn and are now heading farther and
farther away from the studio. Lets have a
look around, shall we? The mixing board is a
Neve VRP Legend with flying faders, not a
little EMI board with a grinning St. George
and Geoff Emerick permanently attached to it
like my fantasies have led me to believe. Oh
no! One of those screens with the EQ display.
Ill get sucked in I know, just like those dryers
at the laundromat. A Studer A820 24 track
analogue tape machine. Theres a machine
bay, so you can wheel in whatever you want,
digital or analogue. They have a lot to choose
from. Assorted outboard gear that Rob and
Tom decide not to use. A comfy couch and
chairs. Coffee! OK, now for the studio
downstairs. Its huge. The ceilings are 24 feet
high and the floor is 38 feet x 60 feet On the
studio statistics sheet they list the
reverberation time at 1.2 seconds. Mounted
on hinges and wheels against the main walls
are four acoustic screens that are nearly as
tall as the room, and about 1/3 the width, so
you can break it up. There are lots of smaller
screens you can use for isolation. Weve got a
Steinway grand piano, a Steinway tack piano
(actually there are no tacks, just very stiff,
ridged hammers), a Hammond C3 organ with
two Leslies to choose from, and an electric
harmonium. Lets see, microphones. Hmm,
Neumann, Neumann, Neumann... you name
it, they got it. I go over to check out the
rented Ludwig vintage drum kit. Cute. Those
cymbals look like trouble though. There are a
pair of very weathered looking Cole 4038s
perched nearby. Hey Paul, how old are
these? Pretty old. Like Beatles old?
Yeah. I press my cheek against one of them.
and take a little stroll through the halls if

you want to. We decide to order out for
Indian food tonight. After dinner, the band
heads downstairs to work on another song, I
have a stomachache, and fall asleep on the
couch imagining what the Odessey and Oracle
sessions were like. (Insert Zombies dream
here). The band returns to the control room
just as Rod Argent delivers a kick to my stomach because I wont let him sit down. How
did that sound? asks Elliott. Well ...
Are you taking the Mickey out of me? -Paul
We should smash them

to smithereens. -Rob
Abbey Road has an extensive list of

floating equipment you can bring in, Rob and
Tom have requested some EQs that were
originally part of an old EMI board. Not only
does the old stuff sound better, it looks
better. Why is modern recording equipment
so ugly? They have also brought in Summit
mic pres, a Fairchild limiter, a Tube-Tech CL
1B compressor, an SSL compressor and some
other preamps. Studio two has exclusive use
of the legendary echo chamber. Located in
the back of the room , it was just recently
reinstated for work on the Beatles Anthology.
All studios have access to the EMT reverb
plates. Hey, have I mentioned theres a pub in
the basement? Its part of the cafeteria,
which offers up the usual casserole style
cuisine, but the beers on tap are great. You
can order a pint of Guinness, light a cigarette
It seems after spending enough time

with us Paul and Chris have figured out that
half of what we say is bullshit, and have
started dishing it back at us with gusto. Now
were one big happy family. Elliott and Sam
lay down some vocals (U47) on the track
started last night. They sound great, but Mr.
Smith, is unhappy with the words and the
song is shelved for now. He begins work on
another song. He lays down acoustic first
(KM56), then electric guitar through a Leslie
(U47 on bottom 2 SM 57s placed at an angle
of about 130 degrees [for more spin,
according to Rob] on top), and drums (just
make something up). Mr. Waronker isnt here
today so Elliott plays. Once again he lays
down one of the weirdest and coolest drum
tracks you ever heard. Okay Sam, think you
can play bass over that? Excellent! Sam opts
to stay up in the control room to record it. We
enjoy delicious frothy pints while he works
away. Rob has something to show me
downstairs. Tucked away at the end of the
hall is an old EMI board. Theres compressors
built right in to every channel. In fact, the
VU meters on top show compression not
signal. Chris comes over and tells us that the
board no longer belongs to the studio but to
one Michael Hedges who produces a lot of
bands I dont listen to. He just keeps it at
Abbey Road to use when he works there. I
stash a pen behind it to use next time Im
working there.
On that note, Im disappointed to
discover that out of a staff of 80 people, only
8 are engineers, and all are boys. Paul assures
me its not sexist hiring policies, just lack of
applications from the girls. I think of the
Spice Girls and decide hes not taking the
Mickey out of me. Come on ladies of London,
out of 7,000,000 people, One of you must be
interested in recording! Back at the ranch
Elliott is laying down an organ part.
Elliott & Sam reaching for a high note.
Elliott, Rob & Tom going over the arrangement.
TAPEOP
A pint and playback.
The Orchestra.
Chris (L) & Paul (R).
Power!
Waiting.....
Rob and the old board.
TAPEOP
First take
with Joey
Waronker
on drums.
All photos
by Joanna
The organ sound is great. Hey, how long has

that been here?... Really? That long? So
thats the one they used on Blue Jay Way?
The tack pianos been here for a long time
too. Penny Lane! I run down and touch them
both again. We forget to eat, the cafeteria
stops serving food at 8:30 and London turns
into a pumpkin at 10. We all go to bed
hungry
TAPEOP
Im gonna put some gooey

schmutz on the oohs. -Rob
We went to bed hungry, not necessarily

sober. The bar in our hotel stays open later
than the pubs so we wrapped up the night
there. I wake up at 3 pm. Everyone else left
at noon. When I get to the studio they have
already recorded basics for another song.
Joey has played drums and left by now. Sam
is doing his bass part again. Lets take a little
time to get to know The Abbey Road Kids.
Paul is only 24 years old and has been working here since age 19. He spent 6 months
splicing tape by hand with Geoff Emerick for
the Beatles Anthology. So, were you freaking
out? Actually no, not really. Hes so cute.
Chris is a New Zealander who moved to
London in March. He landed his job at Abbey
Road within 3 months. Not too shabby! He is
a wee 23. He also informed me that the term
for ice cream bar in England is icy lolly.
Elliott is adding piano and organ now I forgot
to tell you about studio one. Its even bigger
than two. 92 x 55 feet., and 39 feet. high.
This is where they record most of the
orchestras and film scores. Its the only other
studio I check out because number three
gives me a weird vibe every time I walk by.
Later I find out this is where Dark Side of the
Moon was recorded. No wonder. I do read a little info on it though. Its smaller than the
other two, and includes a separate 19 x 12 ft
live room which has no parallel surfaces and
tile floors. The board is a 72 channel SSL G.
It has a kitchen and shower. The Spice Girls,
Morrissey, and (shudder) Phil Collins have all
used this room. There is also the smaller
penthouse studio, used mostly for vocals,
overdubs and mixing. It has a Neve Capricorn
board and is the only studio with full digital
capabilities. You know, if youre one of those
people. Abbey Road also has a cassette
duping suite, CD pre-mastering room, a disc
cutting facility, a classical editing room, and
separate digital re-mastering suites for pop or
classical music. Whew, now that thats out of
the way, we have moved on to slide guitar.
There is a story about George Harrisons

iron fist while recording Badfingers Day After
Day. He insisted on doing the double slide
parts at the same time, one played by him
and the other by Pete Ham. Of course this
was no easy task and took a bunch of takes.
Now when I hear the song I dont know if Im
crying because its so beautiful, or because
the idea of recording something that many
times is too stressful. (Insert Badfinger nightmare here). Vocals added, the finished
product is a rocker called Brand New Game.
Some of you may recognize this as the song
Mr. Lawrence Crane and I recorded a demo of
in the short film Strange Parallel. Isnt Larry
photogenic? Now adding vocals to the one
from yesterday. Elliott does a lead vocal and
doubles it. Moving on, he wants to try some
harmonies but clarifies more than once that
hes not sure what hes going to do. Hes just
sending out a probe if you will. He declares
after the first couple of passes that the
probe has discovered nothing but by the
next one hes off and rolling. I lost track of
how many harmonies he added but I think
Brian Wilson would be jealous. While making
a rough mix, Rob talks me through what hes
doing including putting some gooey shmutz
on the oohs. Damn his techie talk.
and there, interrupted only once so Blondie

can check out the studio. I resist taking their
picture and settle for waving to Clem Burke
from the control room. Control tower is more
like it. At about 15 ft. above the studio, you
kind of feel superhuman. Just by adding
some reverb to the talkback and speaking in
a deep voice you can almost live the dream.
Another day finished, we head back to the
hotel bar for overpriced drinks.
Take your time, as an error would be

disastrous at this juncture. -Tom
Im just futzing around in here. -Rob

Today the orchestra arrives. Another
Studer has been brought in as a slave deck.
Weve got 8 violins, 4 violas, 4 cellos, 3 basses
and 4 French horns. They are micd as follows,
4 U67s on the violins, 2 on the violas, 2 U47s
on the basses, 2 on the cellos, and the 4038s
on the French horns. There are 2 M50s out
front by the conductor, and very high above,
a pair of KM56s. Did I mention the special
love that developed for the KM56s? Aside
from the acoustic guitar, they were also used
as drum overheads, on a piano track or two
and probably some other things Im
forgetting. A+ for versatility. The
arranger/conductor arrives and goes over the
sheet music with Elliott. Both satisfied, he
goes downstairs, gives some brief instructions
to the players and were ready to go. They put
down a few different arrangements of the
song and are done within an hour. Some of
them thank Elliott for an easy day of work
and head downstairs to the pub. Tom now
bounces these tracks onto the original so
Elliott can sing to it. The rest of the day is
spent mostly on vocals and assorted bits here
Last day and Im feeling a little tearyeyed. Elliott wants to try one more song that
hes been messing around with, temporarily
called Honky Bach because of the piano
style. Rob sets up the mics on the tack piano,
and recording begins. Listening back, we
realize the tape had started rolling before Rob
made it up the stairs and shut the door.
Sounds great, we move onto the harmonium.
He adds some low stuff that sounds like a
tuba, and some high stuff that sounds like an
accordion. Sam adds a bass part and the song
is now called The Lost and Found. Lyrics not
quite finished, we move on to mixes. Rob
asks Paul if they ever use any API stuff there.
Hes heard of it but were in Neveland and
nobody he knows seems to have actually used
it. Maybe next time...
We wanted to take the Kids out at the
end of the day, but once again its very late.
No one seems too anxious to leave our new
little home, but Paul has to work early
tomorrow. Were reluctantly getting ready to
leave when Chris rushes out and returns with
a bottle of champagne and some gifts. The
boys get the standard Abbey Road T-shirts,
and I get the supercute baby tee. Which
would look great if I didnt have shoulders
like Greg Louganis. We make a toast and hang
out for just a little while longer.
Joanna waves goodbye. Photo: Elliott.
An Intro to Analog Tape

Splicing and Editing
and Tape Loops.
By John Holkeboer (with Larry Crane)
Who among us hasnt wanted to take a razor blade to our
tapes for no other purpose than malicious destruction?
Through the ancient art of manual tape editing and splicing,
you now have a practical reason for doing just that!
Basic materials for tape splicing and editing.

recording tape (basic magnetic tape, e.g. Ampex, Maxell)

razor blades
leader tape (white, clear)
timing tape (yellow, red)
adhesive splicing tape (blue, best on a weighted desk dispenser,
1 for 2 tape, otherwise)
editing block (usually mounted on your console reel to reel recorder with
grooves for hard cuts [vertical] or soft [diagonal])
grease pencil or china marker (white, yellow, any color that stands out
against brown tape)
ruler
Leader tape application

Leader tape is made from polyester and is theoretically
soundless. Its sold by the reel like recording tape and
is usually white or clear with black stripes which denote
time, i.e. 30 per minute at high speed, 15 per minute
at low speed. Its mainly used at the beginning and end
of a reel to protect the first and last few feet of tape,
just like on a cassette.
Tape splicing and editing is essentially cutting and pasting tape by hand.
Its organic and crafty. Instead of working with digital, virtual sound, you are
manipulating the tape with your bare hands. In any other sense, however,
there is no comparison. A comparison would be analogous to the difference
between using a typewriter and a word processor. Manual splicing and editing
is time consuming, and the results are irreversible. It is simply the old way:
no better or worse than modern methods, only very different.
TAPEOP
Whether you use digital or analog editing, the basic techniques of splicing
and editing (leader tape, tape loops, and cut and paste editing) are essential
skills for anyone who uses analog tape. Most console-style reel to reel
recorders come with a factory installed editing block. Its a rectangular piece
of milled aluminum or steel with one flat groove across the middle for holding
the tape in place. This shallow, wide tape groove is intersected by one deeper,
thin, vertical groove for cutting the tape with a razor blade (hard cuts). Next
to this is a similar, but 45 degree diagonal groove (soft cuts). Most editing
blocks have only these two razor grooves, but some have one more 30 degree
diagonal razor groove for a super soft cut (see diagram 1).
If you have an upright reel to reel recorder or your reel to reel is not
equipped with an editing block you can buy one or in desperate situations
only, go without. I have gone without an editing block in a pinch and it just
takes lots more manual precision. And then, only for the most basic
operations like adding leader tape to the front of a master reel. If you buy an
editing block you just have to mount it firmly to your workspace (as close as
possible to the tape recorder and horizontally or at a low angle).
To apply leader tape, follow

these procedures:
1) Locate the beginning (or the end) of

the recorded sound on the tape, rewind
(or fast forward) a little bit to insure
that you wont cut into the recorded
sound you want, then mark (on tape)
the intended cut with grease pencil
(always make the mark on the tape
facing away from the side of the
record/playback heads. i.e. the dull,
darker brown non-magnetic tape).
2) Place the marked segment of tape in
the editing block (you can pull the tape
away from the tape heads with the tape
still on the reels).
3) Align the grease pencil mark with
the desired razor groove (vertical for a
hard, instantaneous sound cut, or
diagonal for a soft, more oblique cut).
Then with a clean, swift stroke cut
through the tape.
4) Keeping the tape held in the shallow

groove, match end to end (no gaps, no
overlaps) then cut master tape with
length of leader tape, cut the same way
(see diagram 2).
5)
TAPEOP
Using the razor blade, cut off

enough blue adhesive tape to cover
the splice vertically. Affix the blue
adhesive tape across the cut and
joined magnetic and leader tape (use
the handle side of the razor blade or a
fingernail to rub the adhesive tape on
and to smooth out the air bubbles).
Trim the blue tape from the top and
bottom of the audio tape by holding
the razor at an angle and sliding it
along the groove that holds the tape in
the splicing block.
You can cut the leader tape to any

length depending on how much dead
silence you want. You can experiment
with timing in this way. Incidentally,
timing tape is essentially the same thing
as leader tape, except its yellow or red
and sometimes its useful to
differentiate between timing and leader
functions. The above procedure is useful
for inserting breaks in your master tape,
between songs or programs. Again,
leader or timing tape is essentially
soundless, so you can also use it
whenever you dont want tape hiss or
want to permanently remove stick clicks.
Tape Loops
Before sequencers and drum
machines, enterprising people made
tape loops to achieve endless
repetition of a given sound sequence.
If youve never seen or made one, the
tape loop is a disarmingly easy and
logical device.
To make and playback a tape loop,
follow these procedures:
(The only item you need for tape
loop playback in addition to the
aforementioned materials is a floating
capstan or spool, mounted on a
portable stand, such as a mic stand.
See diagram 3.)
1) Find the exact beginning and end

of the tape segment you wish to
loop and mark the cutoff points with
a grease pencil.
2) Cut out the desired segment (see
step 3 of above procedure for cutting
instructions. In the case of loops,
either hard or soft cuts are fine.
Again, hard for a sudden attack, soft
for a more gradual attack.)
3) Make into a continuous loop (see
step 4 of above procedure). Be sure
loop has no twists.
4) Splice together (see diagram 4).

5) To play back loop: Run the loop
around capstans, through place
holders, and in front of tape heads
as you would for normal playback
operation, but run the remaining
tape around the remote capstan.
Pull taut-not tight, making sure the
tape can move normally (see diagram 5). Press play. Tape loop will
play back repetitiously at regular
speed until you press stop.
Cut and Paste Editing

Say you have two takes of a song. One take has an unfixable flaw in the last section of the song. Another take
however, had better results over the same section. Isolate the flawed part in the first take, cut it out and replace it
with the better part from the other take and splice it on. This type of editing is obviously risky and has potential to
cause serious continuity problems. But sometimes it is the only solution. This same type of edit was used famously on
Strawberry Fields Forever. Other uses for this technique are to edit out overly long portions of a song, mix edits, and
even slicing out small pieces of tape to remove stick clicks during a sloppy drum fill!
Other more advanced techniques

refined by earlier electronic music
composers made use of such things as simultaneous tape
deck playback: music comprised of separate parts played on
separate tape decks timed to sync up by carefully measured (by
ruler) lengths of leader tape. This type of music, also known as
musique concrete, was originated by Pierre Schafer and Pierre
Henri. Their piece, Symphonie Pour un Homme Seule, is widely
regarded as the first musique concrete composition. Other
notable pieces done in this method include Karlheinz
Stockhausens Kontakte and Gesang or Iannis Xenakis
Orient/Occident or Bohor. Mario Davidovsky, Otto Luning
and Gyorgy Ligeti have also made significant contributions to
this repertoire. This music also utilized backwards tape wherein
you cut out a tape segment, flip end over end, and splice in for
desired backward envelope. Also artificial tremolo, achieved by
cutting many equal-size segments of tape and equal-size
segments of leader tape (by the use of a ruler) and splicing
them together (see diagram 6).
These are very labor intensive and seemingly archaic techniques, but
there are a few very good reasons to use them. If you do it a lot, your
technique improves and you even discover options unavailable with a
computer. In sum: If youre looking for new ways to be creative in your
editing, it pays to have these options at your disposal. There is also the
element of control. This kind of editing gives you a kind of no-turningback decision-making power over your recordings. Perhaps most
importantly, experimentation with manual tape splicing and editing is
enlightening and informs ones own understanding of how sound
engineering has evolved.
TAPEOP
The Creative Music Recording Magazine
Get a free subscription to

Tape Op. All you have to do
is go to www.tapeop.com
and fill in the online subscription form and the next
issue will be delivered to you
TAPEOP
Subscribe:
Cool ass interviews with folks like Rupert Neve,

Tchad Blake, Butch Vig, John McEntire,
Mitch Easter, Fugazi, Steve Albini, Jon Brion,
Andy Wallace, Andy Johns, Jim ORourke,
Joe Chiccarelli, Rudy Van Gelder, Spot,
Alan Parsons, Bob Ezrin, Jack Endino,
Jim Dickinson, Mario Caldato, Ethan Johns,
Dave Fridmann, Malcolm Toft, Daniel Lanois,
Geoff Emerick, Hugh Padgham,
George Massenburg, and lots more.
its
Offer applicable only in the

US and UK. Other territories
are not free.
Free!
TAPEOP
DJ
Home recording has taken some serious leaps

during the nineties. A four track and a couple
of cheap microphones used to be the
standard setup; nowadays its just as common
to find a sampler, turntable, and an ADAT,
ProTools or hard drive recorder. This Do-ItYourself ethic is very prevalent in the sample
based DJ/Electronica world. Is it more chic to
go out and buy a sampler rather than an
electric guitar? Electronica is the new punk
rock, and there are no rules for this
subcultures art form.
DJ Shadow (AKA Josh Davis) is a perfect
example. Here you have a middle class, white
kid from suburban Northern California that
grew up listening to hip-hop. Most of his
work is done at home using only a few pieces
of equipment. Shadows debut album,
Endtroducing (Mo Wax Records, 1996) came
out of nowhere. It sold quite impressively,
and launched him and the rest of the DJ
world into the plain view of record buyers
worldwide. Shadows flavorful, sample driven
combination of huge breakbeats and spacey
organ and bass loops landed his album on
top ten lists everywhere. Shadow has now
released a new album under the name Unkle.
Unkle is Shadows collaboration with Mo Wax
Records founder, James Lavelle. Shadow has
been quoted as saying, Hes the director and
Im the DJ. What this translates to with
Unkle is this: Shadow creates the music while
Lavelle brings together other artists such as
Radioheads Thom Yorke, The Verves
Richard Ashcroft, Beastie Boy Mike D., and
many others to add vocal and instrumental
collaborations. I was able to sit down with DJ
Shadow and talk about some of his gear, his
approaches to music, and the making of
Unkles new album, Psyence Fiction.
Sha
dow
What is your set up like, equipment

wise? Im sure youve been asked
many times.
Well, I dont mind talking about it anymore.
Mainly, I just use an Akai MPC-3000.
Will you continue to stick with that
sampler?
No. I think its time to move on. When I first
started using my MPC-60 Mach II back in
early 92 it was so new. No one was using
them. Everyone was still so SP-1200, SP1200,SP-1200. Now, its time for something
new. I think that when you change your
instrument, you change your sound. But, I
still want to keep it simple. I dont want to
fall into the trap that a lot of producer
friends of mine fall into. A lot of people that
I look up to make the same mistake. When
they are having a hard time making music,
they spend a lot of time and energy on
getting new gear. They feel that because
they are reading manuals, they are working.
However, they arent making anything. Its
easy to get caught in a tech trap where you
never put anything out, but feel like your
new piece of gear is going to put you on the
top. My home studio would still fit on a
dinner table. Turntables and my 3000.
Did you use the same equipment for
Endtroducing and Psyence Fiction?
No. For Unkle I upgraded to the 3000. I made
my own album on the MPC-60.
Ive heard that you never use
computers. Is that true?
The only time I use Pro Tools is for the editing
and sequencing of the album. For Unkle, it
was just used to de-click some of the really
noisy samples. At the very beginning of
making the Unkle record, I was feeling very
self-conscious. I was hearing all these chops
on drum and bass records that I couldnt do
on the 3000. I played around with Cubase a
little but then I decided that I already had my
sound and that Id stick with it for a while.
TAPEOP
To be inspired,
you need to live
a little bit.
How much multi-tracking do you do?
Endtroducing was recorded to ADAT because that
was all that we could afford back then. The
Unkle album was multi-tracked to 2 analog.
Jim Abbis did the actual mixing but James
and I were there for every minute of it.
What about outboard gear? Any

certain pieces that you like a lot?
The MXR Pitch Transposer. It was something
that Mario Caldato Jr. from the Beastie
Boys introduced me to. Thats one of the
few pieces of outboard gear that Ive ever
sought out and bought. I used it a lot
during my DJ set when I was touring
Europe with Radiohead.
Are all the sounds you sample
already pre-recorded? Would you
ever commission musicians to
come in and play parts that you
have written?
Jason Newstead from Metallica played live bass
on one of the Unkle songs. That was
because I couldnt find a bass line that I
liked. That was the only reason. I used his
bass line because after working on the beat
and guitar sample for six months, I still
couldnt find a bass line to sample. It was
too strange of a melody. I grew up on
sample-based music. Breakbeats are the
foundation of what I do. I like the fact that,
even though it doesnt always sound the
greatest, someone could go out and find the
beats. They are out there. Everything I use
can be found somewhere else if you look
hard enough. I think that makes it very
interesting. I love finding other peoples
samples. Its great to not only find the
sample but then to also see how it was
used. Its great when people arent lazy and
take the sample as a whole. I like it when
people chop up stuff and flip it around.
On the Unkle song Nursery Rhyme
you made a piece of music that
is entirely made out of samples
sound like a rock band.
Someone who didnt know
better would assume that it is
just a rock band playing that
song. Was that your goal?
Yeah. As rock bands try to sound more sampled, Ive wanted to make songs that are
100% sampled and feel live.
It does. It even has the stick click
four count.
Exactly. I had to go through about 30 records
to find the stick clicks. It could have been
worse if I hadnt known to look for them in
punk records. That was a fun song. It was
a milestone for me on the record. It came
together faster than anything else.
Will there be a new DJ Shadow album
in the works anytime soon?
Interviewed by Eric Stenman

Photo by Jeff Gros
The thing is this. I finished Endtroducing in
June of 96 and started Unkle right away. I
did High Noon, toured, and then worked on
Unkle all the way up until now. I havent had
any time to relax or reflect since 95. I think
that for the sake of me making good music,
I need to take the rest of the year off. I need
to just DJ and not make music. If I started
another record right now it would sound like
Unkle. To be inspired, you need to live a
little bit. Theres a lot of bait for me to work,
work, work. Strike while the irons hot. I
cant buy into that.
Im sure that you could do a ton of
re-mix work if you wanted to.
I dont really do re-mix work. I have done a few.
They have to have really influenced me in a
major way and be friends of mine. Some
people make their whole living doing
re-mixes and do a really good job. Someone
like Fatboy Slim. I think thats cool. For me,
I dont look at music that way. I have a hard
time with it. I still consider myself a
consumer of music more than anything else.
As a consumer, I think that a lot of re-mixes
are rip offs. Rarely will something hit me the
way the original song does. Usually its spare
beats and two days in the studio. Its the
same reason why I didnt have many
re-mixes done off of Endtroducing. The Cut
Chemist re-mixes were the only ones. It just
doesnt seem like a good idea for me.
What other current producers do you
really like?
I like Timbaland. Theres a producer from Miami
named Gray Strider that I really like.
Are there any new pieces of gear coming
out that you are excited about?
Thats a good question. Im really not a techie.
When it comes to me building my new set
up, Im going to have to do some
investigating and call around. Its hard
because the MPC turned out to be a very
classic, standard machine. Theres not much
around thats been an improvement. Id have
to find something that is better. I dont want
a new piece of gear just for the sake of
having it. Its got to be able to do at least
what the MPC can do. Ive always liked the
fact that its all in one box. (pause) I cant
believe that I have no Akai sponsorship. Ive
talked about Akai for so long. I dont know
whats wrong with them. I dont know whats
wrong with me. I should be calling them.
Distortion is
usually your
friend.
-Rob Schnapf in Tape Op No. 9
Photo by Sonny Mayugba
TAPEOP
ing keyboards on
"Rise and Shine,"
throws the listener a
curve with "Too Much
Coffee" with its heavily distorted guitars
and vocal, and settles
into
traditional
Carmen-esque guitarpop on "Out Of Your
Hair" and the songs
that follow. Other
Ray Carmen has been a part of the

underground "cassette culture" for over ten
years. As might be guessed by the heading,
Carmen's main forte' is pop, as in
Byrds/Beatles/Monkees, but he does venture
into other areas. He recently put out his thirteenth tape on his own POP! Productions
label, and has releases by cassette notables R.
Stevie Moore, Don Campau, and others in his
POP! Productions catalog.
Carmen mostly records by himself at
home on cassette four-track, playing guitars,
keyboards, bass, drums, and doing very nice
vocal harmonies. He has also collaborated
with synth wizard Ken Clinger, released a CD
(Nothing Personal) on migr' Records, and
drummed for Witch Hazel and the King
Dapper Combo.
The earliest release in Carmen's catalog
is Naive Assumptions (1989). It's a 30-minute
compilation of some of his earliest recordings. Ray writes, sings, performs, and produces everything on the tape. Naive
Assumptions opens with "I'll Get You For
That", featuring a nice jangly guitar and
"why did I fall in love with you" lyrics, and
closes with "Take It Like A Man" which is
best described as Casio synth-pop. While
Naive Assumptions doesn't sound quite as
developed as the later tapes, it is a charming
and delightful listen.
Duet Yourself (1990) is described in the
POP! catalog as "The one everyone likes." It
opens with three very angry songs:
"Passive/Aggressive" ("Is it just you or is it
cold in here?"), "Brand New Boyfriend," and
"The Weight." Things lighten up a bit with a
cover of Mike Nesmith's "You Just May Be The
One," and a light-industrial version of
Nesmith, Goffin and Kings "Sweet Young
Thing." This tape is classic Ray Carmen.
1993's Bubblegum Buddha is sort of a
sequel to Duet Yourself. It opens with chim-
candy!), and as a whole the tape sounds

cleaner, clearer, and more confident than his
earlier cassettes. I don't know for sure
whether this is due to better recording
equipment or simply experience and practice. I suspect it's a bit of both. Some of the
songs, like the re-recording of "Monster" and
"Walk Away, were done in collaboration
with Ken Clinger. Most of the others are all
Ray.
1998's Old And In The Way is a collection of remakes and rarities. It opens with a
Ray Carmen- Pure Pop For D.I.Y. People

highlights on Buddha are the driving but still
jangly "More Than Enough," the Japanese
sounding instrumental "Rain On The Road,"
and the wonderful Vanquished."
In 1995 Ray collaborated with the
above-mentioned Ken Clinger on Hopes And
Fears. Clinger wrote and played most of the
music and Carmen wrote and sang the lyrics.
Clinger's keyboard programming is beautiful
and his orchestral arrangements are gorgeous. Carmen's lyrics on songs like "She
Says" and "Better Off Alone" focus on his
then-current divorce. Hopes And Fears also
contains four covers, including a take on the
Banana Splits' "I Enjoy Being A Boy" and the
Beatles' "Here, There, and Everywhere,"
which reflect Carmen's optimism over his
burgeoning relationship with his now new
wife. Hopes And Fears was mostly recorded by
Clinger to DAT.
Hopes And Fears was followed by 1996's
acoustic EP Accidentally On Purpose, which
again featured Carmen as sole musician and
engineer. The one exception to this is some
fiddle played by Blind Waldo on the pseudocountry tune "Ugly and Slouchy." This tape
features early versions of "A New Beginning,"
"Monster," and "Nothing More To Say," all
later re-recorded for 1997's Too Old For Angst.
After Accidentally On Purpose came
Hanger 18 and an EP entitled Snow Day.
Hanger 18 is described in the POP! catalog as
"thirteen ambient, experimental tracks from a
few guys who should know better." The Snow
Day EP is another collaboration with Ken
Clinger and features three Christmas songs.
Too Old For Angst is Carmen's most
recent album of new original material. This
cassette represents a nice leap forward in
Ray's progression as a recordist. The arrangements have more nice, subtle touches (ear
16-track version of "Me And My Big Mouth,"

which was originally heard on Naive
Assumptions. Following that are nine songs
from the Nothing Personal CD. Nothing
Personal was recorded in an 8-track studio,
with Carmen again playing all the instruments. Even though there's lots of good stuff
here (including several remakes from Duet
Yourself) and the recording quality is good,
Ray himself says that he's not crazy about it
and that he could do a much better CD now.
Based on Too Old For Angst, I believe him.
Side two of Old features assorted rarities
from various compilations and several songs
from What The Hell Is That?!, which I assume
predates Naive Assumptions, as it includes
early acoustic versions of several songs that
appeared on that tape.
The latest release in the POP!
Productions catalog is a cassette single titled
Lucky 13. It contains a gorgeous cover of
"Daydream Believer, featuring synth programming by Ken Clinger, and is backed with
Ray's
take
on
the
Residents'
"Constantinople." These songs will be included on Carmen's next full-length cassette
Correct Me If I'm Wrong, which will mostly be
cover tunes.
In the online 'zine Free Agent, Mike
Bowman said of Carmen's several tapes that
"there's not a clunker in the bunch." I have
to agree. Over his several tapes you can hear
definite artistic development and progression. They reward repeated listening. They're
original yet familiar and personal yet universal. And they're inexpensive - no cassette in
the POP! catalog costs more than $4.00. Best
of all, they're good.
An interview
with Ray Carmen
the word Kalamazoo written across the

head. I don't even remember where I got
it. Plus I have a couple of cheap old Casios
and a bunch of odds and ends like a tambourine, a toy harmonica, a beer-mug
microphone, and one of those tubes you
whirl around...
Do you have Pete Townsends Scoop

collection? The liner notes on
his evolving studio fascinate me.
Yeah, I LOVE that album! I remember he used
one of those whirling tubes as a link for something on that record! He's a genius, and thats
probably my favorite album of his.
How do you record?

What kind of recording equipment
do you use? You say "4-track"
quite a bit. Is it a PortaStudio?
Actually, no, it's an old Fostex X-30! I don't
think they even make them anymore. There's
no built-in mixer in it, just the bare bones
stuff, like bass and treble controls... I've never
used a mixer. I just plug everything directly
into the Fostex (or into an effects rack, then
into the Fostex), and hope for the best.
Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.
TAPEOP
How does that compare with going

to DAT? Do you have any experience with ADATs?
Well, it depends on the song, obviously, but

generally the first four tracks are the drum
machine on two tracks and the rhythm guitars
on the other two. Then I mix those down to
another tape, and add bass, and lead guitar,
or a keyboard, or whatever. Then those two
get mixed down to another tape and I add
vocals. Again, it depends on the song.
Sometimes there are no drums; sometimes the
drums are me playing the drum machine by
hand on two tracks, or maybe putting a preset rhythm on one track and adding drum fills
on the other. But that's basically my method.
I never bounce tracks on the same tape,
though, because, frankly, it sounds like shit.
I assume POP! Productions is not

your primary source of income...
Check (or in this case, NO check)!
...but how does the catalog do? Do

you sell many tapes? Or do you do
more trading?
I don't sell that many tapes. I do more trading

Do you have any tips for Tape Op than selling, but every year I get a few new
readers?
people on the mailing list. I could be adverNope. If youre a TAPE OP reader you already tising a lot more than I do, but I really can't
know more about home recording than I do!
afford that. Every year I try and network a litHow often do you record? Do you tle more, though, so it's building.
Well, DAT definitely sounds better, but it also

makes your mistakes that much more clear!
The only experience I've had with DAT was
recording my Hopes and Fears album with Ken
Clinger. He did the music on computer and I
set a schedule for yourself?
did the vocals and occasional instrumental
overdubs. We did it at his home studio. As for No, I've never set a schedule because I would
ADAT, I recorded a 16-track version of one of never stick to it! I record off and on all the
my songs, "Me And My Big Mouth" on two 8- time but it usually takes me about two years
track ADATs synched together. It turned out to come up with a 10 or 12 song "album". But
really nice. Much better than the 8-track ver- I often release EPs of "works in progress", like
cassette singles, so I usually come out with
sion I did on my Nothing Personal CD.
How has your equipment arsenal SOMETHING every year. It's funny, sometimes
when I'm at work I'll think to myself, "well, I'll
grown over the years?
Slowly. I have the aforementioned Fostex, work on some music when I go home
plus a nice effects unit, a Zoom Studio tonight". But then when I get home I'm not
1202, with CD quality effects on it. I have in the mood or I'm too tired. Once I start a
a couple of halfway decent mics. One is song, though, I can't sleep until I've got it
made by Audio Technica, the other one by finished, so if it spreads out over two or three
Electro-Voice. For drums I have a Yamaha days, I spend ALL my time thinking about it;
DR-550, plus I also have a regular drum at work or wherever.
kit, which I haven't had the nerve to try Youve been recording since 1987,
right?
and record yet! I have no clue how to mic
1986,
actually.
drums. My guitar is a sunburst red 6-string
Rickenbacker. My pride and joy! For What inspired you to start?
acoustics I use a 6-string and a Yamaha Well, I've always wanted to be a musician for
12-string. I have a very old bass that has as long as I can remember. When I was 8
years old I got Paul McCartney's first solo

album for Christmas, and even back then I
knew that's what I wanted to do- make
records and play everything myself! I was a
crashing bore to my classmates, lemme tell
ya. Then around the summer of 1986, I got so
sick of what I was hearing on the radio that
I decided to get off my ass start doing something about it. So I started recording my own
songs at home. Ultimately, that's the reason
why I do music--for myself. I know this
sounds really pretentious, but it is "artistic
expression" for me. It's fun and fulfilling for
me to build a song track by track and hear
the end result. It's a real creative thrill, and
the fact that I have a small core of people
who like what I do is an added bonus for me.
I know that sounds really hokey, but that's
how I feel about it. Sometimes I'll feel really
shitty about what I'm doing, and then I'll get
a letter in the mail from somebody telling me
how much they liked one of my tapes, and
that totally knocks me for a loop.
How does doing cassettes yourself

compare with being on an
indie label? What were your
experiences there?
Well, my Nothing Personal CD came out on the
migr label about six years ago. I think
being on an indie label can be real beneficial. You get more distribution, obviously,
and some ad space in magazines. You have a
much better chance of being taken seriously
by music publications that won't even consider reviewing cassettes.
Would you record for a label again,

or do you prefer to do it yourself?
Sure, I'd record for a label again. I like the
whole do-it-yourself ethic and I'll continue to do it regardless of whether I'm on a
label or not. But if an indie label asked
me to do an album I'd be stupid to pass
up the chance.
What do you think of CDRs?
continued page 25 >>>>>>>>>>>
TAPEOP
Jennifer
Herrema and
Neil
Hagerty
have led the Royal
Trux for a number of years
their home studio, recording classes, and production work
now. They pulled a coup of
sorts when Virgin Records dumped
by Larry Crane and Scott Simmons
a lot of money on them, put out two
albums, and then dropped the Trux. Jennifer
and Neil kept the house and full-on home studio
that they bought with said money and now theyre
back to putting out fine records on Drag City, like they
had before. Only now, they can do all the recording and mixing
at their home studio! We caught up with Jennifer at EJs in
Portland before they tore the house down in a rockin frenzy.
photo: Royal Trux
I was listening to Twin Infinitives We havent replaced the BRC yet. Its so much What was the reason for bailing on
easier than a mouse. Weve got a clean
today and I was wondering how it
the place?
board; a Mackie 24 by 8 but we have 16 In San Francisco? Uhh...
was recorded. Theres all these
channels of Drawmer 1960 mic pres. I can guess...
layers of stuff going on.
Everything goes through the Drawmers.
Yeah there was. It was done 8 tracks at a time
There was definitely problems.
Where did you score those?
and dumped down.
Was this done on 8 track or was it 16? Through this place in Indiana called
Sweetwater.
No, this was done at Greg Freemans in San
Yeah,
Ive gotten stuff through
Francisco.
Yeah, I know. Ive worked with him.
there.
He had a 2 16 and he also had an 8 track there. We had a sales rep and we were buying so much
stuff through them we were getting cut some
Did you do the second and third
really good deals.
records with Greg?
No, we just did Twin Infinitives. Also some So you went to recording school?
songs that we ended up using on the Live and I went to recording school for a year and I went
to college...
Unreleased CD.
On Cats and Dogs did you play Pre Royal Trux?

everything on that or did you College was simultaneous `cause I moved to
New York while we were doing it. Neil was Anyway, that whole Virgin Records
have a live band?
gonna move to New York so I only applied to
We had a band. We actually did that in a 24
deal enabled you to buy a house
one school. I was a freshman and you can
and set up a studio. Then you
track studio with an API board that had
only get into the classes you can get in. There
ended up working with David
belonged to Brian Wilson at one time. Omega
was one class that was on theory that was
Briggs...
Studios is the name of the place. It was really
overpriced and all but we got a deal with this
guy and we tracked in 2 days and mixed in
two. It was with a drummer, a second guitar
player, Neil and myself. As far as the basic
tracks, it was all done simultaneouslylive.
It sounds that way. Thats pretty

damn fast to record a record!
I guess it really was. It just seemed luxurious
because I guess it was our first time ever in
a very expensive studio.
Was that the first time with a band?

Yeah.
Did you rehearse a lot?

Yeah, yeah. Neil and I wrote all the songs and
then we picked the musicians that we
wanted to work with. It was three weeks
straight of playing the set and trying out
the arrangements.
Were the vocals live or did you over

dub them?
The vocals? The vocals were live. I did my
vocals, and I have a completely different
phrasing than Neil does, so I did mine and he
did his but without having each other in the
headphones. Hearing that kind of thing...
Itd throw you off. So at this point

you guys have a studio at your
house.
Yeah.
TAPEOP
You have 4 ADATs?

We have three ADATs but we just bought
ProTools so its all synced up. Kind of unlimited tracks.
Cool. Go crazy with that stuff.
beyond calculus and I was like, Hmmmm. Yeah, he was the most awesome guy.
There was one really technical class where it I kind of figured he helped you set
was about soldering and it started there and
up the studio.
went on. It was all done at Planet Sound The first Virgin album was done down in
which is where the Fat Boys recorded. Neil
Memphis at Keynote recording studio that
and I had already started recording the first
was, at the time, owned by Joe Walsh. David
record and wed gone to so many different
was a really particular and peculiar guy. He
studioswed worked with Wharton Tiers and
didnt really do a whole lot of work in his life,
all these different guys that all had this
Spirit, Easy Action [Alice Cooper], and a
information about how things should be
bunch of Neil Young records. I remember the
done. Its not that I disagreed but I wanted
day he called me, and he said, Cats and
to know why they were saying it and what
Dogs... I love this. Im coming out to your
was going on. So I would go to the class at
house. Two days later he flew out to the midthe studio and ask all these questions. Why
dle of nowhere in Virginia and was sleeping
this? Why that?
on our floor. When the record was done, it
didnt end. For a year afterwards he was calling twice a week. Then he got really sick, and
we were always talking until the day before
he died. Theres liner notes in the Spirit reisWere you driving them crazy?
sues and Randy California wrote this really
Yeah, I guess I kinda... They were like older
succinct description of David Briggs. You
people that were trying to make a career and
should get it.
I was a real pain in the ass. But then I quit Did he come across your stuff
and dropped out of college and we moved to
accidentally?
San Francisco. The School for Recording Arts He had done a Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
in San Francisco. You know that place? You
record and hed been sent a bunch of
can take a semester for $400, and they had
records that were coming out around that
this certificate thing and I wanted to have it
time and he got Cats and Dogs. Then we
as an ID whenever I went in to record
signed to Virgin and he was a producer that
somewhere I would just flash it and keep
we were kind of interested in talking to so
moving. Pardon me. I was there for two
we had our A & R person call him and he
weeks and I blew it, I quit, but I picked up
knew Cats and Dogs so he said, Why dont
enough about what the hell was going on.
you just call them? So he called us and we
Fundamentally it is all pretty simple.
started talking.
You must have a

massive patch bay!
Yeah. They just had these really rough ideas.

Were you under pressure to find a I know all about that.
Some riffs. Then we just made this thing and
name producer?
Ya know, weve got nearfield monitors,
No, we wanted one! Wed never had the money
to have one. I mean, we were gonna use him
for Sweet Sixteen too, and we were already
talking about how we were gonna do it and
thats how it came to pass that hed come out
to see the house after wed bought it and we
were doing a lot of remodeling and construction and we started talking about bass traps
and stuff for the back room. He didnt know he
had cancer he just thought he had a really
bad back. Sweet Sixteen, we were gonna do it
there. Then he got really sick and we couldnt
find... We met with one other producer, this
guy, Peter Cohn, who had done a lot of Rush
records and also happened to be the brother of
our A & R person. It didnt work out that great.
It was meant to be this other way, but since it
cant be, were just gonna deal with it on our
own. And we had the guy, Greg Archilla, who
did the engineering for Thank You, do the
mixing as if everything had gone to plan.
Genelecs. And well check it on a boombox.

Standard stuff.
Ian was just furiously writing lyrics as we

were arranging instruments.
Do you do all the engineering He was actually writing down

lyrics? It just sounds like he...
yourselves?
Yeah, and Paul [Oldham]. He didnt know that Well, he does make some up! We got him the
Anita Baker cover, We Really Want You To Do
much about it at the beginning but we sent
This Song. It is great working with them.
him to school. Actually, hes got two credits
What about Will Oldham? Have you
to go.
You havent had anybody record at

your house?
done anything besides

Trudy Dies single?
that
Yeah, thats the way its gonna be. The way we

do stuff... the next thing is going to be a
spectrum analyzer. My idea is to put on a hit
record, watch the analysis, and make sure
that the next album we write is gonna be the
exact same pattern.
No, we did Trudy Dies. We did Edith Frost... I

left... We were offered the job and they sent
the demos of just her, guitar and vocals, very
simple. She wanted to put it to record as a
full band. We started coming up with ideas for
it and stuff and I just realized that I could
not deal with it at all so I flew to San
Francisco. So Neil called me up and he had
her crying and stuff.
Youll need an oscilloscope too.
Did he play on it at all?
No. Nobody except for us.
Is there a reason or is that just the

way its gonna be?
Yeah, of course. Behringers got some awesome Well, hes played on everything hes worked on
but I always make sure its mixed really low
Did Virgin want to supervise
stuff coming out. Its gonna really encom`cause theres no guitar player like Neil. I
mixing?
pass all of that. Well make it look like this.
always insist that we get royalties as well as
They would have loved to have done all those
So nobody is allowed in there.
a producers fee because when he puts
things. They would have loved for us to use But youve done mixes for other
anything on a record... Its gonna change it.
people there.
Peter Cohn, they would have loved for us to
On the Will thing he pretty much played all
have not taken all that money and built a
the instruments.
studio. It didnt make them happy at all. At a
Isnt
that like organ...
certain point I think they were like, Hands
Actually we had Liam doing that. Liam from
off. If we give them enough rope theyll just
Plush. Thats how they met; Will and Liam.
hang themselves. It wasnt like a Fuck You
Liam is just a Mellotron freak. Thats all he
to them at all. It was just how we thought it
does, is work on Mellotrons. Its the most
should be.
insane endeavor, really.
So, your last record you did all at
I read that you forced Dan [at Drag

City] to put out the first Palace
record.
home. Did you mix it somewhere

else?
No, we mixed Accelerator there.
TAPEOP
Through the Mackie? Ive got a

Mackie 32 x 8...
photo: Taylor Crothers
Wasnt into it at all. We were like, Dan!
Does he like it now?
We record through the pre-amps but nothing If they send us stuff thats already been tracked He and Will are really tight. I dont think hes
gonna put out any more of Wills records
goes down to tape without being put through
and they dump it down to ADAT. But nobody
though. Theyre good friends but it wasnt
them again. Everything is outboard. We dont
can track in there.
really his cup of tea at all. He just wasnt into
even use EQ on the Mackie. Its basically the So what about the Make-Up [In
it. Neil and I put on a tape of Wills when we
Mass
Mind
produced
by
Neil
and
faders. Its just like a landscape machine.
were in Chicago and we were like, Hey. A
So youve got a bunch of outboard
Jennifer]?
singer/songwriter. Have you ever thought
EQ? Do you have a lot of racks?
I went with Neil. He and I set it up at this
about this? And he was, Oh man! We were
Yeah.
studio [Stillness] that was maybe an hour
like, Cmon, listen. We kept playing it over
You must have a massive patch bay
away from us. Its set up like ours, in a big,
and over for four days and finally he was just,
system!
old house. The guys done a lot of stuff. Its
Shut up. We just talked him into it. We felt
It gets really... the whole balanced/unbalanalog. Those guys in the Make-Up, theyre
like he should branch out a bit, ya know? He
anced... Ill be putting them in and out, the
kind of into a purist thing. We did all the
only had 2 or 3 bands.
signals not going through, and Ill be, Fuck!
tracking and all the mixing there.
Wanna
get technical? What kind of
Every time we get something new we have to Do you enjoy producing other
mics do you guys like to use?
bands?
re-configure everything...
The AKG 535 is my mic of choice. Its kind of a Do you have any ribbon mics? You can
whiny mic. Its what I use for my vocals...
fry those pretty easy.
exclusively. Neil uses an Audio Technica 4033. Yeah, I know. No ribbons but weve got a shitload
What do you use for drums?
of drawers full of mics. Actually, the mic list I
For the kick, theres this one AKG that the one
gotwhat to buycame from David and Greg,
drummer we were using before wanted. It was
our drummer. I already knew AKG was my vocal
a D110, not the 112. He got really anal about
mic. David assigned it to me; This is your
it. We were just, Okay. Whatever this shit is.
mic. We used it on Thank You and I used it on
We tried to find it. They only made it for a year.
tour. I grew to like it. It is really hot, and I
We spent a long time trying to find it so we got
have no lung capacity whatsoever. I dont even
the D112. We use Sennheiser overheads and we
tour with it nowa lot of small clubs dont
always put PZMs up.
even have phantom power. We went on this
Does it always change?
long tour and we had this roadie, this kid from
Theres no formula. Each record sounds really difPhiladelphia... really crusty, blowin snot out of
ferent but its all within the scope of the equiphis nose... and he was always doing the sound
ment we own. We keep buying new stuff.
checks and Neil would come up with the
So thats all in the back part of your
bleach. Neil would bleach my mic three times
house?
a day. By the end of the tour the diaphragm
Yeah. Its got a really high ceiling with beams
was just disintegrated. We had to send it to
going across. Weve got a PZM thats always
California to be redone. Thats one good reason
slapped at the very top. Sometimes its good
to carry your own mic. Ive noticed that even if
and sometimes you just erase that track.
theyre in good shape they smell like somebody
Theres a bathroom thats pretty much a bass
elses bad breath. And theres all those little
trap. It gets these really great sounds. We do a
germs living inside it. Bleach is not the answer.
lot of the vocals there because when we built
the studio we had custom 300 foot cables
made that go to the fourth floor of the house.
I do the vocals on the third floor. Theres an
old, wooden landing and the ceiling goes up 30
or 40 feet. The guy who owned the house
before us was a carpenter and built mirrors into
everything. Just clapping there... theres the
most awesome sound.
Do you put an extra mic in there or

let that mic pick up the ambience?
Yeah, it picks it up. A lot of times Neil will record
a lot of his guitar tracks in the old part of the
house, which has a lot of stone, stone Are you planning to record some
fireplace, etc. Then, we take the tracks and set
more stuff after the tour?
up a really large speaker cabinet on the landing We started recording a little bit before we came
and we play the guitar tracks back out and reout here. Were gonna take the band and
record them.
record for two days, two songs, straight on
Do you have one of those Reamp
with the band. Weve been trying to work on
boxes?
this one song during sound checks.
No...
While the bands playing well
TAPEOP
Its called Reamp. They make this

together?
transformer box where you can Yeah. Its a 40 date tour... its a long tour.
take it straight off of tape and plug It sounds like a great setup. Youre
it into an amp and its the perfect
able to record at home on your own
level for a guitar amp. That way
time.
youre not overdriving the input. It is, but we dont allow ourselves back there
Yeah. We lost one of our Drawmers... its really
depressing. I havent dealt with sending it back
to England. As far as voltage and stuff like
that... its all hit or miss. We blow stuff up all
the time.
everyday. We go back there when theres a

plan. Otherwise, the tapes would be stacked up
to the ceiling. Wed be excessive and insane
and wed work too much! c/o: Drag City Recs.,
PO Box 476867, Chicago, IL 60647
Cassette Corner:
Continued from page 21
I feel like cassette releases are not really
thought of as "legitimate". A self-released CD
will get you attention in many places a tape
wont. I think as time goes by and they
become more affordable, you'll be seeing a LOT
more CD-Rs. Whether or not they'll replace
cassettes, I don't know. I have a few CD-Rs
available myself. Ken Clinger sells them
through his Bovine Productions web page.
He's the one that makes them.
What prompted you to re-master your

catalog a couple of years back?
The main reason is because some of my masters
were starting to get pretty worn, especially the
one for Duet Yourself. I must have made a couple hundred copies of that for people. The other
reason is because I had a cassette called Lost
and Found, Vol. One that I deleted from my catalog and I added some of the tracks from it to
other cassettes. I figured since I was remastering I might as use some of those songs because
some of them were too good to lose. But overall
Lost and Found was not a very good tape. It was
a collection of leftovers, basically.
Do you do something non-musical

for a living? How old are you?
Does your wife encourage you to
record and play?
I work for a branch of the Akron-Summit County
Public Library. I've been in the system for ten
years now. My wife is very encouraging. As for
how old I am, well, let's just say I'm half way
to 72! [laughs]
Do you play live shows? Ive been

doing solo acoustic shows, myself,
as Ive had a hard time finding
band members. Especially those
that will stick to the arrangements on the tapes.
Well, you've got more guts than I do! No, I don't
do live shows.
<http://raycarmenmusic.blogspot.com>
www.tapeop.com
free subscriptions online!
Neutral Milk Hotel began in the early 90s as a 4

track cassette project by Jeff Mangum. Since
then, hes released a couple of albums on Merge
records (On Avery Island, In The Aeroplane Over
The Sea) and assembled a band to take the
show on the road. We interviewed Jeff after a
Neutral Milk Hotel show at the Portland rock
dive, Satyricon. Despite having been booted
from the stage after a scant forty minutes due
to club scheduling problems, Jeff was still up
for talking Tape Op trash. After assuring us we
werent bugging him, we got underway with
a few questions.
Neutral Milk Hotel

By Larry Crane and Leigh Marble
Have you had a long day, Jeff?

Long day... Dont sweat it, youre not pestering
me. I really like your zine a lot.
Thank you. Well, these are the

questions I was thinking of.
Your first single was the Cher
Doll Records one, is that right?
Yeah.
I really like That. I heard That

whenever it came out, someone
sent it to me to review. And I was
thinking that youre, even still,
oriented towards recording being
really separate from live. So I
wanted to head in that direction
with questions, as far as your
band being a band. Like on the
new record, how many of the
people who played with you
tonight appeared on that record?
TAPEOP
All of them. Jeremy plays drums on the album,

Scott plays all the horns, Julian plays
accordion and saw, and Lauren plays the
silver saxophone and the xitherphone.
So you headed up to Roberts

[Schneider of the Apples In
Stereo] house in Denver to do
the recording?
Yeah. The whole band approaches recording in a very... recording

is such a magical thing, its fun
to see the songs grow and take
shape as youre working on them
and not get too caught up in trying to worry about exactly how they are live.
The whole fun in recording is finding the little
magic keys to the songs.
Fostex four track, reel-to-reel.
Damn. Didnt he have the eight

track at that point, when you
were out there for Avery Island?
Yeah, we couldnt afford the tape.
Thats a wild reason. An extra eighty

bucks or something.
Well, Roberts been eating rice and beans for both

records. We basically ended up living off a credWere you playing stuff off the new
it card for half the album. And plus I was only
album live before you went to the
used to cassette four track at that time, so it
studio?
was a step for me into something still comfortWe played Ghost a couple times, and that was it.
able.
Cuz we got the band together up in New York And they can sound great. Has it been
nice working with eight?
City after ...Avery Island [NMHs first full
length] came out, and then we toured for a Yeah its great.
while. Then Jeremy went to Chicago, Scott Howd you hook up with Robert in the
first place?
went to Austin, Julian stayed in Long Island to
start his album on his own, in his I met Robert in third grade, in Louisiana. Will from
Olivia Tremor Control I met in seventh grade, and
grandmothers basement. I went to Athens and
he moved away when he was eighteen. See, we
started working on some of the songs for the
were always trying to get out of Louisiana, we
next record. And then Jeremy flew down to
always knew it was a place to leave. We were
Athens for five days and thats where we
always surprised at how many people who lived
worked up Ghost, in the garage, and then he
there didnt have the same idea that we did. So
went home. The other songs we did after he got
he ended up moving to the Virgin Islands, thinkback from Chicago, we worked on them right
ing he was going to sit on the beach and drink
before we went to make the record and then we
martinis and write Hawaiian music. And he
worked on some of the stuff in the studio.
Just worked it up a little bit and
ended up homeless on the beach, broke. His
then recorded it?
plane ticket was round-trip, so he went back to
Uh-huh.
Miami and called our friend Lisa in Athens, who
What did you record on this time,
went and picked him up. So one of our friends
did you use the eight track?
had actually broken free of Ruston so we all
Yeah, eight track.
flooded to Athens immediately. I ended up movYou did the first one on a four
ing, though Ive moved back to Athens three
track, right?
times, this is my third time to move back.
Where did you move between?
And a floor tom, I think.
Yeah. Just really simple, probably one

mic?
I thought you had lived in Seattle, like
One
really crappy mic. I think it was a K-Mart mic, one
when the single was done or someof
the seven dollar microphones you can buy, plasthing?
Denver, Seattle, and New York City.
tic with a plastic mic stand you can pop on there.

I did the single in Athens, then went to Seattle, found
I just found one of those at R5D3, this
out about Cher Doll records and sent her a tape.
I had this dream and I heard all these sounds, and I

figured out how we can make it sound like that. Hed
say, I love you, I love you, I love you, kiss me on
the head, go wake up, coffee is downstairs, see you
in the studio in two hours. Okay Robert! So its just
really great. They gave me a room to live in, and hes
got all his books on Eastern religion and philosophy
to look at, so its a pretty cool experience.
really strange store that has a lot of

radio surplus and weird shit. Its the What is songwriting like for you? Do you
best place to find weird things.
have a bunch of ideas and then say, OK,
Yeah, working at some crappy theater job. Giving away
Do they have any Space Echoes?
its time to sit down and flesh them out,
free popcorn. Constantly.
Yeah,
I
wish.
or are you writing constantly, like you
To friends, or anybody?
I
really
want
a
Space
Echo
really
bad.
[into
tape
finish a song and then move on?
Anybody who looked interesting. Some guy would buy
So at that time you were four tracking at
home?
recorder]: If anyone reading this has a Space Echo,

ten bucks worth of food, give me a ten-dollar bill,
please let me know.
and Id give him ten bucks back in change and say
thank you. [everyone laughs] Theyd look at me Contact Jeff now. Ill take one too.
[laughs] So after that, were you still
completely confused. And then everybody quit and
four-tracking up to pre-Avery Island,
there were three fifteen year-old kids there that
doing stuff on your own? When youre
were asking me how to pop the popcorn and lookwriting songs, youre putting them
ing to me for guidance and I couldnt take it so I
together on tape?
left. Yeah, I lived in Seattle for a while.
Before that youd been four-tracking, No, all the songs are just in my head. Now I just record
shit for the fun of it. Unlistenable noise. But now
when you lived in Athens, right?
I have a quarter-inch eight track.
Well, I started four-tracking when I was around
sixteen. And before that I had a little York stereo Oh, cool. What kind?
with the left and the right input and a little K-Mart Fostex, mid-eighties model.
mic. It had a double tape deck so Id record one Do you have a mixing board?
track on the left speaker, and then put the tape in I borrowed one, I havent bought one yet.
there and hit play and record the right speaker and What are your plans for recording stuff
in the future? Recording with Robert?
you had two tracks.
Yeah, we all start with something like Hell, yeah.
Its hard to say. They all sort of morph themselves into

different shapes. Sometimes I cant remember where
they got started. Different pieces will cram into each
other. But Im constantly writing, theres constantly
words that come into my head that sit there a while.
Do you travel with a typewriter?

No, I pretty much keep it all in my head. Usually when
I write with a typewriter its so Dada, you cant look
at it. Ive written pages and pages of typewriter
stuff that is such nonsense that no one could possibly make any sense of it.
Is there anything else youd like to say

about the recording process?
All the little stockpile of sounds that I came up with on
the four track were accidental things that happened,
and then I brought those ideas and those sounds to
a bigger recording situation with Robert. For me,
recording is like I can sense these waves of the up
and down of the music, the dynamics in the music,
and I get this feeling of how things are happening
musically and try to guide the songs and the albums
themselves, to make the waves even and work well.
that and it just goes to hell from there. You said hes listed as producer. How do
you guys interact? You have the songs
On that first single, that has the most
in your head, all the musicians,
distinctive guitar sound Id heard in a
youre there, Roberts there, youve
long time and that was the first thing
got a tape deck...
How do you communicate that with
that blew me away. It sounds like you
Start
with
the
drums.
We
get
there,
sit
around
in
his
other people?
just plugged into a distortion pedal and
living room playing records. And Ill pick up a gui- Im surprised at how well they understand already.
plugged straight in. Is that how you
tar and say, Hey man, these are some of the songs They seem to be really responsive to what
were getting that sound?
makes your songs work.
that are going to be on the record, will you tell me
That was the Fostex X-18 that has a remix button on
it which feeds, if youre remixing on track one, itll
feed it into track two and back into track one. So I
plugged the guitar into the four track and its supposed to be on line, but if you pop it [the input
level switch] into mic, the signal is really hot. And
then you put it through the remix and the whole
thing just starts looping on itself. Plus I had a guitar with a pickup that was really hot.
TAPEOP
So you just did it straight in, no effects

or nothing? That was my favorite
guitar sound in a long time, it kinda
blew me out of the water. I was starting to four-track, living up here in a
basement, and that single made me
feel good about doing stuff on my
own. It was great. You had really simple drums, sounded like just a snare
and a ride cymbal.
what you think? Sometimes Ill play him songs Yeah, were really fortunate that were good friends and
we get along so well.
Im not so sure about. Robert is a really beautiful
person and I dont understand where he gets all And that youre all able to be out on the
road at the same time, not
his stamina from. Im so amazed he can engulf
tied down to jobs.
himself in the record as were making it, from
basically two in the afternoon until three in the Yeah, well its rice and
beans on the road.
morning. He wakes me up and says Im going to
Looks like its
the studio to play the piano for a couple hours,
going to be rice
and Id show up around two.
Is it fun?
and beans for life.
Its a blast. He wakes you up all
freaked out, I heard these
sounds in my head,
I know how we can get
this done,
only person I worked with that star struck

me. All of a sudden I was looking through the
glass at him and said to myself,my god
thats Kirk Douglas!
So is Gravelvoice a full-time thing

yet?
No, not yet.
Is that your intention?
by Curtis Settino
In just a few short years, Scott

Colburns Gravelvoice Productions
has been involved with a
wonderfully diverse collection of
artists and recordings. His Seattle,
Washington studio offers an
analog 16-track, digital editing,
and plenty of charm. Scott
e ng i ne e r s, p ro duc e s, a nd
contributes musically when needed.
Hes also an avid record collector
and for years was known as Shaggy
(a la Scooby Doo) because he
looked exactly like him. To start off
the interview, Scott agreed to
answer some silly profile questions.
Scott
Colburn
Well it sounds exciting.
Yeah it is! The space is big enough. Its about

23 feet by 23 feet with a control room inside
of that. I built it to be, firstly a control room,
secondly a tracking room. I felt that if I
wanted something to sound really good I
could go to a different studio and track it;
What is your audio education?
then bring it back to my studio to do overI have a bachelors degree in sound engineering
dubs and mix.
from Columbia College, Chicago, 1989.
So how big is the control room?
How many projects have you been Its 12 x 15. The ceilings vary from 9 feet to 10
involved with?
feet throughout the space. Its hard to
Thats hard to really pinpoint; approximately 37
CDs, 22 cassettes, 30 books on tape, 10 singles, three 78 rpms, 19 LPs.
What has been your biggest disaster?

Moving to Los Angeles.
What are some of your current

What has been your biggest success?
projects?
If success is measured by record sales, I project

the Beefheart will beat all. If were talking
about record sales, then any Sun City Girls or
Climax Golden Twins. If we are talking about
personal accomplishments... Pint Sized
Who are some other artists youve
Spartacus. My best sounding experimental
worked with?
project is Climax Golden Twins Imperial
Ive worked with Sun City Girls, Amy Denio, Bali
Household Orchestra. My best sounding rock
Girls, Climax Golden Twins, John Fahey, Miss
record is the Leatherboy CD which isnt out yet.
Murgatroid, Ed Pias
Ive been creating audio montages of each
album for the Residents web site. Im also
compiling material for a Captain Beefheart
box set.
Yeah, definitely. I just moved the studio into a

commercial space last month.Thats the first
step: take it out of the basement. Im also
considering doing some advertising. So well
see what happens. Its kind of nice to not
have to rely on it to pay the bills. That way
you can really choose what you work on.
Thats the way Ive been working for the last
five years. I really want to make a living at it.
But I dont want to compromise. And thats
hard to do. Thats probably why its taken so
long to take this first step.
describe how the ceiling is. It sort of dips

down with these pyramids, like wedge foam,
made out of reinforced concrete. Its actually
really sound. Theres a parking garage on top
of it. I have cement walls on two sides as
well. So you can make the loudest sound you
want to make at any time of the night and not
have to worry about it. I hired a contractor to
help me build the control room walls. Theyre
not sound proof by any means and theres no
window. I chose to not put a window in
because I didnt have one in the studio in my
basement. And I got more comments like, We
really like it that you dont have a window,
than, Why dont you have a window?
TAPEOP
Who was the nicest celebrity when Just because people didnt feel
How many years have you been an
you were doing books on tape?
like they were under a
audio engineer, producer, musiThe most professional was Adrienne Barbeau.
microscope as much?
cian?
She was also the nicest. Gary Owens was Yeah. Also, when I closed the door they felt like
I started playing piano in 1970, saxophone in
super professional.
they were practicing. They kind of forgot that
1973, then guitar in 1976. My first live show
Who was the scariest?
they were recording. I think I got better perwas in 1979,. My first pro recording was in
Michael York. He was a perfectionist to the
formances that way. Ultimately, Id like to
1981 (reel to reel four track). I realized I
degree that he ruined the recording. Lukas
hire someone to engineer for me. That way I
should be a producer in 1990. I opened my
Haas couldnt read a line without a mistake.
could concentrate on the performance part
studio in 1993.
I also want to add that Kirk Douglas was the
more. But Im so far away from that.
TAPEOP
But youve got tons of experience It goes really well, actually. They have permanent rehearsals Wednesday night and Sunday
doing both.
night. So I have all the other evenings, plus
Yeah. But heres the thing: I know my studio
some day time slots. So thats pretty good for
really well, because I wired it myself. But if I
right now. And realistically, most of the peogo to a different studio, one that Im not
ple that want to record have day jobs and
familiar with, Id really need an engineer
arent going to want to record during the day.
there, or at least a super competent second
Are
you still doing your own stuff as
(engineer). One of the things thats fun
well?
about the new space though is that it is new.
So I dont know where the drums sound the Not really. I did do a live show a couple months
ago though. That was the first live show Id
best, or where to put the guitar so that it
done in about ten years. Ive done about ten
doesnt bleed as much. And its kind of
albums worth of material. But theyve always
exciting. I was in my last studio for three
been released on cassette, and in very few
years, and toward the end of the time there
numbers. I like doing it. And Im excited
it became almost a science. I knew exactly
about doing it. But what I really want to do
where to put everything. Thats good. But at
is work with other people and record other
the same time it gets a little boring because
peoples music that I like. Because I feel that
its hard to break out of that mold.
they can do it better than I can. But the live
How long do you think itll take for
show was a lot of fun. And it kind of whet my
you to figure out the new space?
appetite for doing music again. One thing is
Well, far less time than before. But it depends
that Climax Golden Twins consider me a part
on how quickly I can get the people in
of the group. So I get to play and create with
there wholl allow me to experiment. Im
them. And thats what Ive always wanted to
always working with Climax Golden Twins. I
do. Its really fun!
work with them twice a week. And theyre
super experimental. So I can try all kinds of Thats great.
different things with them. But as far as Yeah. Theres two kind of people that I work
with: One is somebody who approaches me
rock music is concerned, I need someone
and I check out what theyre doing, and if I
with a really nice kit to come in so I can try
like it, Ill decide to record the album; the
some things out. Ive got a pretty good
other, I guess I would call career
relationship with The Bali Girls now. And
investments. For the Climax Golden Twins,
they want to come in and record a couple of
especially, I see a progression in what theyre
songs. So that will be good because their
doing, and Im willing to put the time into it,
drummer, Randy, is one of the most poundand be a major participant in helping them
ing players I know, and hes always very
achieve what theyre trying to do artistically.
concerned about the way his kit sounds. He
Because I see that as a way to go onto bigger
wants them to sound really big. So hell
and better things with them. I dont see
scrutinize every drum sound and make
them becoming stagnant. Theyre always
comments, and I like that. Hes great to
progressing. Theres always a lot of different
work with. So theyll be good for the rock
projects coming up. Weve done CDs that are
sound. Then I just got to throw a jazz
straight music. Weve done installations in art
combo in there and try that out.
galleries. Weve done live shows. And thats
What other surfaces do you have in
really interesting to me. I like that better
the tracking area?
than doing one-off records for people.
Well, like I said, its concrete on two walls and
wood for the control room wall. The other The thing thats nice about that is
that you both get to grow in your
wall is a Japanese-type screen that slides
own
areas.
open. It opens into another space which is
Absolutely.
I have a similar relationship with
where the Young Composers Collective
The Bali Girls. I did a demo for them and then
rehearse. Its a huge space for an orchestra to
we did a CD. And theyre already talking
play in. Technically, its their space, but it
about the next record they want to record
can used for isolating instruments, for a bass
and Im developing that too. But most rock
trap, or things like that. It can also be used
groups dont experiment that much. Climax
to change the acoustics of my room just by
Golden Twins are working on a CD for a
opening up the screen.
Japanese
label right now. And the concept is
So how is scheduling work with the
to
make
it
all electronic. And were doing it
Young Composers Collective?
all on the computer, which we havent done

before. The other stuff weve done has been
analog recordings heavily edited in the
computer. But this one is being created
totally in the computer. Its exciting, but it
takes a lot of time, even more, I think, than
recording analog. Well its easy to get sucked
into the micro-tweezing, just because you
can. Yeah. Thats my big job; saying, Lets
get the basics down first, we can go back and
nit-pick at things later. Weve got about
twenty minutes of the CD done. We did that
in about eight sessions, which is pretty good.
But we got another twenty to go!
So whats the process?

All three of us have supplied different sounds.
They may be sounds that were recorded
separate from the group, or stuff Jeff and Rob
have done together, or samples from other
records, sometimes 78s. Were big on 78s
right now.
Do you have a 78 player?

Yeah, Jeff got a Victrola Low Boy. Theyve
actually released a series of cassettes called
Victrola Favorites. We record them right off of
the Low Boy straight to DAT. Theres five
volumes so far. One is all Japanese. One is
things we like. And I just finished my set,
which is a companion to The New Session
People CD (Famous Songs From Days Gone By
- Amarillo). That CD was inspired by the 78s
in my collection. So my set is the actual
songs we covered on that CD. Sometimes
people come over for the recording of the
78s. Its kind of an event. The mics live so
everyone just keeps quiet. Every once in a
while a chair creaks, or something like that.
But that stays in there, because that was the
moment. My minds just reeling thinking
about all the 78s Ive passed by, especially at
estate sales. Oh yeah. You know its amazing
to hear a 78 played on the Victrola. It just
sounds so much different than on a modern
phonograph. It sounds so good. We change
the needle every other disc to keep it fresh
sounding. Setting up to record the 78s I
discovered that, oddly enough, the low-end
comes out of the veins at the bottom (of the
Victrolas horn) and the high-end comes out
of the veins at the top, even though its just
one little horn. But there is a difference in
sonic quality as you go up and down the
veins. I took two mics over there one time
and put one up high and one down low. The
other times Ive taken a stereo mic and
positioned it mid-way. For me its great to
hear my collection this way. Its always,
TAPEOP
Wow! I didnt think that sounded like that, Oh yeah! But it was really hard to do it. It was
or, I never heard that before! Actually,
a five minute song and my arm got really
theres some later 78s, not the vinyl ones but
tired. (Laughter) I guess you could probably
the shellac ones, that are amazingly hi-fi. You
rig up something that was automated. But I
can really hear depth in these full band
think that the human interaction was the
recordings that you dont hear on a regular
key thing. Because my arm would get tired
turntable. Its amazing what they were doing
and I couldnt keep the same speed going
with just a single mic. They were spending a
all the time. This other thing I wanted to
lot of time sliding chairs around, adjusting
tell you about was this Indian music I
players positions. Which I like and wish more
recorded. I got to record this guy named
people would get back into.
Vishal Nagar. He and his mother come to the
Im into that in a way too. Im not a
University of Washington every year or so.
big isolation fanatic. Its like,
She teaches a dance there. When I met him
theres really no reason to eat
he was 16 or 17 years old; and he was
your peas separate from your
already considered a master on the tabla.
mashed potatoes. They just get
Hed already made guest appearances on a
mixed up in your stomach anyway.
couple of releases in India. But hed never
So you might as well eat them
had his own solo recording. So my friend, Ed
together and enjoy the complex
Pias brought him and his mother into the
flavor. (Laughter)
studio. While I was setting up I found out
Oh, I had a recording technique I wanted to tell
that a tabla sounds better when you place
you about. Its not actually one that I
the mic in between the two drums, pointing
developed, but one I read about and tried.
down at the floor, rather than trying to mic
The name of the book is Practical Techniques
the two heads. So Im using that technique
for the Recording Engineer I think. And the
and hes listening to it and says, No. I
guys name is Sherman Keene. Hes got a
dont like that. So we moved it around,
flying microphone technique too*. This
tried a few different things, then all of a
technique requires sending a signal through
sudden he liked it. But then he says,
an amplifier. You then swing two microphones
Theres no echo on it. I sat down and
in front of the amp: one in a clockwise
explained to him, Were not in New Delhi.
direction, and the other counter-clockwise
Were in Seattle, Washington, and this is an
but in a bigger diameter, and record whats
American technique. Ill put plenty of echo
coming out of the speaker onto two tracks.
on here if you want. But what is our goal on
So this is concentric circles parallel
this? And the goal was to make it sound
to the floor in front of the amp?
good on cassette! And thats why they put
Yes. So the microphone comes close to the amp
so much echo on their recordings. So I put
then further away repeatedly. I used this
some on. Actually, I used a reverb with a
technique on a Sun City Girls track. We played
slight echo on it. Then he said, You got to
a harmonium part through the amp. Then I
put more on. So I put a little more on. And
laid on the floor with my head up by the
he said, I want more still. So I said, Hey
speaker and my arm straight up and swung
Vishal, why dont you go in there and play a
the microphone around my arm. And then
little bit? Ill record it and well throw it on
Alan (of Sun City Girls) took a microphone on
a cassette and see if you like it. He did and
a pole and swung it around my circle in the
he really liked it! So we were ready to go.
opposite direction, and it really worked! You
They had an electronic tambura going, and
take the two channels and pan them hard left
his mother played harmonium. She was
and right and what you get is a sound that
playing this one melody line over and over
flys around in your head and in the stereo
and over again. The run was about 45 to 60
spectrum haphazardly. Its so much better
seconds long. He performed his premiere
than trying to create the effect by panning.
tabla solo over that; and it was an hour
I can see some cool choreographed
long! It was simply amazing! And when I
swinging being used too. Maybe
walked out from the control room after it
its haphazard in the verses but
was over you could feel the humidity in the
then the two microphones
air because he was sweating so much!
synch-up in some way during
(Laughter)
the choruses.
Did you use much compression?
Yeah. I actually compressed it quite a bit. Plus

I had some ambient mics around as well.
When you listen to the DAT of it you think,
Thats pretty good. But when you hear it off
of a cassette you go, Wow! I was really glad
to get to do that recording.
So that was it, one take straight to

DAT?
Yeah. Theres a couple imperfections in it
though. He would play these incredibly fast
runs and at the end of them hed raise his
hands up really fast. And a couple of times
he hit the mic. I was talking to Ed about it.
Ed has a doctorate degree in ethnomusicology. And I said, Id really like to take those
mic hits out of there. But Im afraid Im
going to mess up the music. And he said,
Ohh, you dont want to take those out! You
dont know how many tapes and CDs I have
from India where people start hacking up
lung in the middle of the performance and
they leave it in because thats just what
happened. Thats what theyre into.
(Laughter) So I didnt bother with it. But it
bugs me to this day. (Laughter)
Heres another technique I wanted to tell you
about. Its called the Schizophrenic
Microphone Technique. We used this in two
places. One was Dantes Disneyland Inferno,
which is a Sun City Girls record, and the
other was on Charlies (of Sun City Girls) solo
record, Pint Sized Spartacus. The technique
involves two microphones. I have this old
AKG mic. I dont even know what the model
number is. Its not a great mic by any means.
Its all crackly and trebly and the top of the
windscreen is missing. I put that on a mic
stand and then taped a Shure SM 57 on top
of it. The 57 was set back a bit behind the
remaining half of the AKGs windscreen. I
ran the 57 straight to one track. The AKG I
ran into this small tube amplifier and miked
it with a PZM hung from a stand. So Charlie
would sing into the AKG for this crackly
personality, and then move to the side a bit
to get a cleaner sound from the 57. He just
played with it as he did his vocals. It
produced the effect he was looking for and
was really fun for him to do.
*See the Recording Recipes column in TAPE OP
#10 for other flying microphone techniques.
Butch Vig, Garbage

&Smart Studios
TAPEOP
interview by John Vanderslice
Butch Vig has

created a big name
for himself in the
recording world. In
1984 he and Steve
Marker founded
Smart Studios in
M a d i s o n ,
Wisconsin, and
started working
with tons of
indie
bands
(like Killdozer,
L7,
Urge
Overkill), including quite a few albums for records labels like Touch and Go, Slash and Sub Pop. As time
went by his reputation got bigger, leading to work with Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana
(Nevermind) and Sonic Youth (Dirty). Then, as if this wasnt enough, he and Steve put a band together
with Shirley Manson and Duke Erickson and called it Garbage. When we got the opportunity to interview Butch, it was originally going to be in San Francisco. After some contemplation, John Vanderslice
of Tiny Telephone studio and M K Ultra (himself a former Tape Op interview victim) came to mind. John
runs a very analog orientated studio, so I figured with him chatting up Butch, who works extensively
in Pro Tools, wed get some sparks flying. And what happens? They got along
like peas in a pod...
You started Smart Studios (in On every single thing. And we had a Roland
Space Echo. The first board we had was an
Madison, WI) a while ago, and
Allen and Heath. It was all kinda to record
you used to record a lot. Do you
our own stuff. We knew a lot of other
miss engineering as much as
musicians from the local scene, so we were
you used to when you first
like, If you guys can go out and buy the
started Smart?
tape, well charge five bucks an hour just so
Yeah, I guess I do. Even though we made
we can get fifty bucks for the night so we
GarbagesVersion 2.0, our guitar tech, Billy
can get some money to pay our rent here.
Bush, by default became the engineer and
We got a lot of work off of that.Everything
he handled a lot of the technical aspects,
that we started making we put back into
particularly because this is the first time
the studio. It was like, We need to get a
we jumped into using the full-on Pro Tools
better monitor system, we need to get
System. But, I still get behind the board all
more reverbs, we need to get more
the time and even now as Im talking to
compressors, we need to get better mikes,
you, Ive got my laptop and a Kurzweil, a
and the list, of course, if you own a studio
little keyboard, and this Yamaha speaker
never stops. Everything we made we pretty
set-up cause were working on some bmuch plowed back in. Over a period of
sides and we spent most of yesterday protime, we went to a more sophisticated
gramming some loops and things. I like to
eight-track to a sixteen-track to a 24 to a
tinker with stuff. I was never really classi48, to now a full-on Pro Tools System. It
cally trained as an engineer; never went to
was a slow evolution. There were a lot of
any of those schools. I always just did it by
bands and albums between all those steps.
the seat of my pants. I still like to get a
new piece of gear and just plug it in and I checked out your website and I
couldnt believe all the bands you
fool around with it; see what you can do
had recorded. It was absolutely
with it.Im also not a good manual reader.
TAPEOP
Did you start Smart to record your

own band? What was the reason
behind starting it?
four photos of Smart Studios
phenomenal! You have a Studer

deck, an A827, were you syncing
up two of those and doing Pro
Tools on the new record?
Steve and I met in film school and he had a

four-track in his basement at the time. I Yeah, we recorded most of the tracks into Pro
Tools, then we would edit or process or
was recording electronic ambient things for
We need to get a better
whatever we ended up doing, which we do
a fellow film students soundtracks.
actually a lot, and then when it came time
Yeah, your already un-watchable
monitor system, we need to
to mix the rhythm tracks, stuff was all
films.
get more reverbs, we need to
transferred to the Studers; the drums, bass,
Exactly, they were very un-watchable.But, some
get more compressors,
some of the guitar and vocals. Any of the
of the soundtracks were pretty interesting.
weird little sound effect things, if we were
we need to get better
They were very inspired by John Cage and
to use them, we would leave them in
even more accessible stuff like Brian Enos
mikes and the list, of
ProTools so we use Microlynx to lock them
solo things, or Stockausen. I cant even
course, if you own a studio
up, so we had the two 48-track Pro Tools
remember what I was listening to back
never stops.
and the 48-track Studers.
then. I was really into it, and at the time
also playing in bands and we couldnt In general, do you use a lot of
compression when you track?
afford to go into proper studios. So, we
It
depends on what it is. I usually dont
started doing little demo things in Steves
compress drums until theyve been
basement and when I finished college,
recorded. I do more compressing post. A
Steve and I had the idea that we could
lot of times if Im looking for compression,
make a go of this, so we rented a space in
I want something that really screws with
a warehouse and bought an eight-track. We
them or over-pumps them or shreds them
had very little gear. I think we had a spring
out. I always compress the bass and
reverb unit, we had a handful of mics, all
usually compress some acoustic things, like
57s or even cheaper stuff than that; that
acoustic
guitar, even piano sometimes well
was the most expensive mic we had.We had
compress a little bit. Shirleys vocals, I Do you mix a song differently if you
one DBX-160 compressor that we bought
know its going to radio, or do
always use a solid TLA-170. Thats the stun.
used for fifty bucks.
you just let radio compression do
Whenever she starts singing it kicks down,
You probably used that on
its job?
even if its quiet, it kicks down a -10 dB.
everything.
TAPEOP
Years ago I always used to use bus compression. We just try to get interesting sound on tape.
occasionally use that on some tracking, but
Ive got a Daking compressor that Ive
Fortunately, we have no idea what the mix
I like to leave it on the bus. The other thing
been using lately. I like it a lot. Ill put it
is going to sound like when we start and we
I probably always use lately, is I have an old
across the bus sometimes just while were
have a tendency to record a lot of ideas. We
ELA-M, I think from 1957-thats an old tube
tracking to make sure if something gets
constantly cut the song up and chop it up
mic. It sounds amazing,. Its one of these
really loud, its not going to blow the
in Pro Tools. This chorus sucks.Lets just
mics that has this incredible high-end,
monitors up. I will occasionally do mixes
erase it. Lets take this sound thing from
haaah all the steam and crunch, that goes
with it, but I have a tendency to wait till
this other song and transpose it to this
on the vocals.
mastering to do that. I always go to
key. We do a lot of really weird things and Whats the difference between a 250
and a 251?
MasterDisk and I work with Scott Hall and
it isnt until the actual mixing process
Howie Weinburg. Theyre both really good
begins that we define how the songs are I do not know.
and I always go to the sessions there so I
going to sound. The record took us a year My friend has a 251 and those are
Telefunken mics right? I dont
can listen to the EQ and make suggestions,
and the mixing took about six weeks at the
think Ive even seen one. Our
but let them do their thing. Im well aware
end of that. Four or five of the songs had
highest end mic is a Neuman 67.
of how radio can affect it but I try and also
over a hundred tracks by the time we mixed,
What dynamic mics, maybe more
compress it, so like Version 2.0 sounds as
so we had a huge puzzle. At that point, a
esoteric dynamic mics, do you rely
loud as anything else, but theres still
lot of the things are kinda defined around
on for guitars or drums or other
really strong dynamics. A lot of times
your lyrics after weve gone through and
instruments?
youre doing things to trick the
were happy with our vocal performance. No
compression. Little frequency things or
matter what we do sonically, it needs to I love a fat U-47, the big chunky mic. Its kinda
dark sounding.
things that sound like they come in loud
work around Shirley because shes definitely
and then ease-off right before it comes
the center. Shes the mouthpiece for the Its a solid state version of the U-47?
back in till the next section of the song.
band, so whether we make it noisier, more Right, but it takes a lot of level on bass and
Do you like the sound of radio
guitars and kick drumsits thumpy. Its not
poppier, more organic, or weird layers going
compression?
as clear as other mics. Ive used that on a
on, it somehow has to work with the songs
Yeah, sometimes I do. I dont like it when its so
lot of things. We use Audio Technica 4050s,
and with Shirleys vocals.
severe; like when a song starts out with a When youre not in your own studio
57s and 421s and m88s on guitars
and youre recording another
vocal and an acoustic guitar and the band
sometimes. We have a couple of Colfax mics,
band, are you flexible about what
kicks in and the band sounds like they drop
but Im not always a huge fan of those. They
gear is available or do you always
down 20 db or lower.
have a tendency to be back a ways. And if
Its amazing how radio stations
bring your own racks with you?
you want something recorded really closely,
vary in how much compression Im flexible, although there are a few things that
to me they dont sound quite as good and
they use. Alternative stations
I do like to have. Ive got an API Lunchbox
they cant handle a lot of pressure.
seem to use a lot of compression.
that Ive used for a while that I really like a If a band was going to start a studio
Sometimes it sounds good and
with a minimum amount of
couple pieces of Summit gear, but the TLAsometimes it just sounds really
money, what would you advise
170, I cannot live without. Its by far my
extreme. When you track, do you
that they spend most of their
favorite compressor. I like that Daking, that
track with a mix in mind, like
money on? EQs, microphones?
compressor, that Geoff Daking came out
say Tchad Blake, or do you try to
What do you think is a really
with a couple years ago. Its very simple to
get good tones down onto tape?
essential link in the chain?
use but it sounds really good. I will
I guess if theyre going to be recording bands
with live instruments, youd almost have to
say its the mics and the pre-amps. If youve
got a good mic and a good pre-amp, and you
move the mic around youre probably not
going to have to EQ very much. Sometimes
you can even go directly to tape on
whatever youre recording on. I remember
when we first started, we had really shitty
mics and I had to EQ a lot. I just couldnt
get things to sound good. Youd have to
bottom-on, or high-in, or screw around with
the mid-range, whether youre cutting it or
boosting it. Going back to (Nirvanas)
Nevermind , I dont think Ive EQed a guitar
going onto tape for 8 years now.
Do you usually brighten it up on the That sharpens your skills too.

way back or do you usually tweak Well, sometimes in the mix early on you realize
it all in the mix?
you shouldve had the kick a little louder or
In the mix, but usually at that point, it has less
the kicks awful loud compared to the rest of
to do with EQing, and what we call our
the drums. But usually you can get it pretty
processing point, where we take things and
close, once youve got the mix down and
re-sample them and change the bits or
the band is playing together. You can listen
change the field person, it might be some
to it with the bass and the guitar and the
strange EQ or it just might be some effect
vocals. Youre almost kinda listening to a
that gets put on them that gives them a
slight rough mix at that point.
totally different timbre. I dont really EQ the Our engineer Greg Williamson,
showed us this trick when we were
bass when it gets recorded and I dont really
mixing down where he would just
EQ the guitars and the same with Shirleys
send the snare out through a
vocals. I dont EQ those, I just go flat to
speaker into a room and prop the
whatever were recording on.
Does the TLA-170 tend to brighten up

vocals at all?
speaker on top of the snare and

get the snare to rattle and then
he would just mic it and mix it
during the mix and get this really
nice separate bottom snare sound.
So, that was like the coolest thing
Ive learned in the past year as far
as mixing on drums. Its nice
because you save yourself a mic
and its totally clear.
It seems to be fairly neutral. I think obviously

any compression will bring out more
sibalence, but thats just the nature of
compression. But, this mic, as I said, has a
really soft, nice smooth crunch to it when
the tubes kind of overload on the high-end.
Well sample stuff on the Kurzweil 2500s
and those get thrown in too. Then well
process them into Pro Tools. We have a ton A couple times on Version 2.0, we would take a
drum loop or some sort of groove thing, and
of programs to do processing, DSPs and
run it through an old Auratone, that weve
things, plug-ins basically and filters and
had since 1983, thats pretty blown up. So
compressors and stuff. Well use a lot of
any low-end, it just distorts right away. We
those on just about anything.
put a mic on top of that and run stuff onto
Getting back to your
it and re-mic it and send it back into Pro
question, It depends on what
Tools and get these amazing crunchy midrange drumloops.
were recording.
TAPEOP
Have you ever used a Shure Bros.

For all those people out there who
Level Lock?
have 8 and 16-tracks, which are No.
probably the majority of the Its like an old PA compressor thats
Tape Op readers, if you had four
really junky. Mustve been like 20
tracks to record drums, how would
dollars when it came out. The
you mic and assign them?
threshold is 6 inches, 12 inches
Four-tracks, depending on what the band plays
and 18 inches, for the distance
from the speaker to the mic. If you
like, if it was a jazz band or something that
slam stuff through that, you get
was very quiet, I would probably put the
just absolutely bizarre distorted
kick on a separate track and then stereo mix
compression sounds. When you
the toms and snares and overhead into two
record do you always separate
tracks. If it was a rock thing where theres a
instruments from drums, or do
lot of kick, snare and back-beat, where they
you like bleed?
were playing a lot of grooves, Id put the
snare on a separate track. Possibly take a No. I mean the bleed is what makes stuff sound
cool. When we started tracking on this
top and bottom mic and run them together
record, we spent a month. We took a Pro
and then put the overheads on track 3 and
Tools, a Mackie and all of our live gear and
4. I used to do that a lot when we had our
for a month we basically jammed and
8-track. I used to commit drums to stereo.
improvised and came up with some song
I wouldnt even put the kick on a separate
ideas. It was set-up very loosely, not
track back then.
pristine at all. It was like a big parlor room.

It had a pool table in the middle, amps were
set-off to the side and the drum-kit was
kinda off in the corner. Shirley could sit in
the middle and then basically, we could run
tape, record, and bounce around between
the samplers and the keyboards and guitar
and bass and drum-kit stuff. A lot of things
came from that, that made it into the final
mix. Might have been a drum loop or a
guitar thing or a vocal that made it into the
final mix. Were not particularly concerned
with something matching or being pristine.
Even vocal takes, if they sound different
from day one to day two, we dont care that
much. A lot of drum stuff, tons of drum
things are mixed down to mono on this. Its
like I didnt even want to bother with doing
things, where I knew there might end up
being 15 drum tracks on a song. I didnt
want to have 15 tracks with separate bass
drums and snares. So I just mixed drums
down to mono in a lot of instances. They
got filtered, EQed, in one or two or four or
eight bar loops. Its basically just the
grooves that work in the context of what
were recording and this is easier to deal
with than a mix. A lot of times when we
would mic them, youd start putting on all
these little things and I find that I use very
little effects.Ill usually use something on
Shirleys vocal if it was recorded dry. Use an
Eventide harmonizer for a double effect.
Well use the 4000 sometimes for a reverb
patch.We use the Roland Space Echoes for a
lot of tape-slap type things. The mix is
pretty dry. I remember when Billy and Mike
had to do the recall on the first mix, I think
we had three stereo effects on them. But,
as I said, so many things are processed by
the time you start throwing up all the
faders, all these weird things are happening
like ambient tracks. A lot of times if theres
a main drum groove that would be down the
center, which maybe has more of a live feel,
I may take another two or three loops and
just pan them all left and the other two or
three loops pan them hard right. They all
have different frequencies and play at
different times in the songs, so youre
constantly getting this pretty wide set of
things coming from the spectrum. I guess
getting back to your question, It depends
on what were recording. A lot of things I
record flat, a lot of things we will process
once we get them in there.
When you record, say piano, do you

like things in stereo pairs or do
you like having stuff in mono
because its so much easier to deal
with and it also gives a solidity to
the instrument.
Both, I think. For instance, rather than hearing
a stereo guitar, Id rather double track the Who are your favorite engineers
guitar, left and right because theyre two
right now? And not necessarily
discrete things, and sound even wider when
ones that are active right now.
you pan them. I do have a Calrec Sound I like Tchad Blake a lot, I think his mixes always
Field that sounds amazing. Its got an
sound really interesting.Im very partial to
incredible stereo mic that works really good
Floods work. Hes been acting more as a
on drums. I ran piano on it, acoustic guitar.
producer these days, but hes been an
Weve used it on a couple of vocal things,
engineer. His recordssonically always have a
where Shirleys singing more ambiently. But,
great darkness to them. He always lets a lot
I have a tendency to record things on mono
of the room bleed into the tracks and that
and not worry about them.
gives them a lot of character. I like the new
What records have you heard recentPJ Harvey record that he did.
TAPEOP
ly that you really, really like

engineering wise, or sound wise?
I really love Massive Attacks new album,

Mezzanine. The way they approached their
arrangements, its all moody and dark and
very atmospheric. Its great, great latenight-turn-off-the-lights and play-it-reallyloud music. I like this band Flick, I like the
way their record sounds; like indie recorded,
lo-fi fuzzy, power-pop. I like the songs and
their singing.Theres some elements of Big
Star and even the Pumpkins mellower songs.
Its a really cool record. Its walking that line
of trying to do it yourself in the indie-world
and also just approaching greatness, to mix
a timeless sounding record.
Of all the records that youve done,

which one is closest to your true
sonic vision?
God, I dont know.
Or the one that you put on and say,

Damn, thats the sound that I was
going for?
It would probably have to be Siamese Dream. I
worked really hard on that record, as did
Billy, as did the band. I knew what he kinda
wanted to do going into that record, and I
knewhe wanted to do a lot a layering. I
knew because I worked with Gish on him.It
was a really intense album to make because
they were also under a lot of pressure
internally and from outside sources. I
particularly remember, when I finished it, I
knew we made a good record.
-band photo by Stephane Sednaoui
-portrait by Joseph Cultice
-Studio photos by Tony Michels
-Garbage can pohtos by John Baccigaluppi
Bob Dylan:
The Recording Sessions 1960-1994
by Clinton Heylin
In the introduction to Bob Dylan: The
Recording Sessions, Clinton Heylin puts Dylans
studio methods in sharp relief against those of The
Beatles. Holed up in the winter of 1966-67, the
lads from Liverpool labored for 129 days over Sgt.
Peppers. Zoom out to Dylan who, from 1962s
eponymous debut to 1975s Desire, suffered to
spend all of 99 days behind the doors of
Columbias studios! With this book, Heylin
provides a close look at the successes and failures
of Dylans self-described Go in, cut it, and get the
fuck out recording philosophy.
In his exploration of every available inch of
tape touched by Dylans voice, Heylin is eminently
thorough without being tedious, and his telling of
this history is inspired. The book presents one
album per chapter, each one prefaced with a
sessionography culled from Columbias cardex
system, studio sheets, and even tape boxes. Every
take of every song is listed, noting the date and
musicians present. Following this hard info is the
story of the albums making. Anecdotes from
producers and session players are mixed in with
Heylins own speculations on what was going on in
Dylans head. Much is illuminated, although there
are more than a few unsolved mysteries as to who
played on what tracks, etc.
Although clearly a fan, Heylin spends as much
time criticizing Dylans judgment as he does lauding the results. Throughout his recording career,
Dylan has made questionable decisions. As early as
his second LP, 1963s The Freewheelin Bob Dylan,
he has tended to discard songs recorded early-on in
a set of sessions. Halfway through recording an
album, he would change the albums direction and
in the process throw away some of what Heylin
believes to be his finest moments. Later (around
the time of Blonde on Blonde), we see Dylan
showing up at sessions with barely more than
fragments of a lyric [and] half a melody, hoping to
bring it into focus in the studio. Or still later, during the Street Legal sessions in 78, how he insisted
on recording live in the studio with a band using
stage monitors instead of headphones! Not surprisingly, the result was a sixteen-track morass.
But there is also much to be learned from

Dylans approach, where the focus is on
performance over perfection. Sure, he was a long
time in utilizing modern multitrack techniques we
take for granted, like tracking vocals after the
rhythm tracks are in place. But the speed gained
by cutting everything live freed him up to do
multiple takes. And he would use these multiple
takes to try out different approaches to a songaltering tempos, trying different accompaniments,
Theres million dollar

studios with well-trained staff
and full catering that are not
generating worthwhile
recordings/albums, while
people like Nic crank out tons
of CD projects every year at
affordable rates, with clear,
straight-up real sounds - and
these are the records that
matter; the ones worth a listen.
and even swapping verses. Jazz musicians have
long embraced this measure of variety between
takes, but in the world of rock it remains unusual.
You think instead of the Beach Boys or My Bloody
Valentine going over and over the same stretch of
tape, building the layers higher and deeper.
Granted, in contrast many of Dylans recording
efforts were very hit-or-miss. But he hit often
enough, and when he did it was thrillingly direct
in a way that labor-intensive layering cannot be.
(New York, NY: St. Martins Press, 1995)
-Leigh Marble
The Tape Op
Reviews Page
The Ex
Starters Alternators CD
The Ex on Touch and Go? While they do seem
at first to be strange company (T & G dont exactly
conjure images of anarcho-squatters and euroimprovisers), the union couldnt have been more
successful. Perhaps the Ex, knowing their new
album would be released by one of the more high
profile indie rock labels, decided to strip
themselves down to their punky roots. No matter
what the circumstances, the Ex throw themselves
into this new set of songs head first. Its less dada,
more futurism. There are no guest musicians, and
non-punk influences (free-jazz, world folk musics)
have been fully incorporated to produce a tight,
cohesive sound. In fact, they havent sounded this
focused since 1988s Aural Guerrilla. Much credit
must go to Steve Albini, who once again displays
great sympathy towards groups he works with. This
is arguably the best the Ex have ever sounded on
a recording. The guitars are scrape-y, piercing and
LOUD, bass is round and booming, vocals and
drums sit un-effected a bit below the guitars roar,
the way one would expect to hear them in a live
context. The entire production has an amazingly
naturalistic quality, which must be attributed to
the room at Albinis studio, Electrical Audio. His
collection of obscure, high-end mics are another
element of this success, so much so that the band
comically displays them in the CD booklet portraits. Highly recommended. (Touch and Go, PO
Box 25520, Chicago, IL, 60625) -Dewey Mahood
Two Dollar Guitar
A Minor Forest
Joe Meek and the Blue Men
Train Songs CD
According to the disc technical notes, this
music was captured by veteran field engineer
Gene Holder [ex dBs], in a studio/bohemian
flophouse called the Jolly Roger. Sound is on the
lo-fi side of things - condenser mic ambient room
aesthetic - which works well for their lo-budget
film score approach to improvisation. This is all
laid back, candles-and-incense type jams, which
occasionally slip into the dreaded new age synth
flute realm. Considering Steve Shelly, of Sonic
Youth, sits behind the traps in this group, Id have
to say its pretty adventurous. (Smells Like
Records, PO Box 6179, Hoboken, NJ, 07030)
-Dewey Mahood
Ini-dependence LP
AMFs new one follows in the soft/loud direction
of their first record, but manages to keep the sometimes generic formula sounding freshinspired
even. They push everything to the extreme; the lowkey stuff is ultra melodic and delicate, the rock is
completely over-the-top ugly metal (Caspar
Brotzmann with the agility of Rush). Brian
Paulson, who worked the magic on Unrests Imperial
F.F.R.R and Slints Spiderland among others, displays
once again that he is the man for super rich, warm
production. Whereas Albini and Westons recordings
for Flemish Altruism made AMF sound brittle and a
bit thin, Paulson comes closer to capturing the
Godzilla-crushing-Tokyo blanket of sound of the
bands live show. A note of interest to recording
buffs: AMF must have picked up a few things from
the aforementioned engineering wizzes, for one
track is self-produced, and sounds nearly the same
as Paulsons work. High quality. (Thrill Jockey, PO
Box 476794, Chicago, IL 60647) -Dewey Mahood
I Hear a New World CD

Joe Meek. The name haunts anyone who
researches record production of the 60s. His
secretive and forward-looking production
techniques presaged what many others developed
later on. I mean some of this sounds like early
Pink Floyd yet it was recorded in 1960! Weird
sped-up vocals, strange echoes on the drums and
odd tape distortion all give this an unreal sound.
Oh, yeah, its a concept album about the creatures
that live on the moon... (RPM, 41 Garfield Road,
London E4 70G, UK) - Larry Crane
Rod Poole
TAPEOP
December 96 CD
Poole improvises on a Martin acoustic guitar
using an alternate tuning of his own invention. He
is concerned with the perfect fourth, the neutral
third, and the micro uneven intervals between.
This ends up sounding fairly reminiscent of John
Faheys playing in the 60s. The music was
documented using a pair of Calrec 1050 condenser
mics, and a Tascam DAP1 digital audio tape
recorder. If the serious coffee shop/art scene is
your thing, check this out. (Win Records, PO Box
26811, LA, CA 90026) -Dewey Mahood
Holland
Plush
More You Becomes You CD
Plush is Liam Hayes, a keyboardist, songwriter, singer and Mellotron fanatic. Unlike his
highly orchestrated singles, we get no Mellotron
on this outing - just Hayes mostly singing and
playing piano. If youre thinking Elton John or
Ben Folds, forget it. It is more like Leonard Cohen
on downers - its that sad, defeated loser mood
that makes this work. As for recording, you may
think itd be easy, but you try micing a piano! And
if he sang live to the piano, well you know... phase
checks. Anyway, it does sound great - Albini,
Weston and Konrad Strauss did a great job
recording this and it was mastered at Abbey Road.
The more I listen to this the more Im drawn in.
(Drag City, P.O. Box 476867, Chicago, IL 60647)
- Larry Crane
Beep, Kiss CD EP
It took me some time to figure this out, but
Holland is our pal, Trevor, formerly the Sea
Saw/Magnetophone guy. Holland is in a similar
vein - Kraftwerkian drum sounds, lush analog
synths and sad, melancholy vocals. I believe these
tracks were done at the home studio Trevor and
When it comes to records four
Archie (Heartworms) have put together in
though, I dont think Id
pick music based on who Arlington, Virginia. This stuff is a great example of The Pacific Ocean
what you can do with catchy tunes, minimal gear
produced it.
Birds Dont Think Theyre Flying (Enchante) CD
and careful arrangements. The actual CD is a treat Silver Jews
to look at since its only got as much silver on it as
David Tollefson
American Water (Drag City) CD
needed to hold the music - i.e., theres a silver disc
New Eyes on the Universe CD
People like Nicolas Vernhes and his Rare
Im a big fan of Brian Eno. Not of everything in the middle of the clear plastic 5 disc. Book Room in NYC are the backbone of honest,
he writes, records and produces, but of the way I (AudioInformationPhenomena, 1625 Oakwood real recording in this country. Im not joking.
perceive that he thinks about music and recording. Drive, San Mateo, CA 94403) - Larry Crane
Theres million dollar studios with well-trained
Systems approaches, how a system (a complex The Minders
staff and full catering that are not generating
effects route, for example) is set up and variables
worthwhile recordings/albums, while people like
Hooray for Tuesday CD
(a guitar, as another example) are entered into it,
Ever since the Apples (In Stereo) made their Nic crank out tons of CD projects every year at
are one of the many recording techniques Eno has self-recorded splash on the indie music scene, a affordable rates, with clear, straight-up real
espoused that I use day to day in my own record- lot has been said in praise of Robert Schneider sounds - and these are the records that matter; the
ing experiences. Apparently, Tollefson is a big fan and his Pet Sounds Recording Studio and we here ones worth a listen. The Pacific Ocean (Ed forof Enos as well. All these mood scapes were cre- at Tape Op have been no exception with that merly of Versus and Connie of Containe) have a
ated from an electric guitar with delays, distortion praise. The funny thing is, I think this is the best clean pop, early Spinanes feel with understated
and other effects, changing the sound of the gui- example to date of his recording/production production, while the Silver Jews record is one of
tar into electronic washes and streaks. Layers were prowess - it is more focused than the kitchen sink the most timeless pieces of work Ive heard in
created on a four track cassette and more treat- Neutral Milk Hotel records and more psychedel- ages. This could have been made any time in the
ments and mixing were done later by M. Griffin at ic/poppy than the Apples have become (yet). The last 30 years and I appreciate that. So, remember,
Chromostatic II. Its a stately, dreamy, hypnotic Minders are pure English pop (leader Martyn is Rare Book Room and Nic Vernhes - and look for a
record but with that undercurrent of doubt that English) and while there are nods to the Kinks, big interview with him soon! (Enchante, 245 East
keeps it from being a New Age feel-good wall- Zombies and XTC, the record sounds more like a 19th Street, #12T, NY,NY 10003) (Drag City, P.O.
paper recording. And it reminds me of Enos Apollo well-recorded Television Personalities, which Box 476867, Chicago, IL 60647) - Larry Crane
or Music for Films, two of his best ambient works. around here is about the highest praise we can
(Hypnos, P.O. Box 6868, Portland, OR 97228)
give. (SpinArt, P.O. Box 1798, NY, NY 10156) - Larry Crane
Larry Crane
Three More Reviews....

Barbara Manning
Fiver
The No-Nos
In New Zealand CD
The first thing I noticed about this CD is that
it is short. Less than 32 minutes, and that made
me wonder. Would I know if it was on vinyl?
Between flipping the sides and not having a digital
counter that shows the absolute time, would I
know or care? CDs allow 74 minutes (or more) of
material and for an album release thats way too
long. Hell, 60 minutes is too much. Im calling for
a bit of self-editing and restraint from musicians,
something that Ms. Manning has always practiced.
Besides being short, this album is beautiful,
haunting and I love it. It was recorded all over
New Zealand with Tex Houston at Fish Street
Studio, with David Kilgour (The Clean, whos
Whatever I do is right/wrong Barbara covers here),
with Chris Knox (Tall Dwarves), and Stephen
Kilroy. A virtual whos who of New Zealand of
recording freaks. (Communion, 2525 16th Street,
Third Floor, San Francisco, CA 94103) - Larry
Crane
Eventually Something Cool Will Happen CD

When people talk to me about movies, I mention that I follow directors and rarely pay attention
to actors. When it comes to records though, I dont
think Id pick music based on who produced it.
Much of the time, production is just a job, and if
you look at the body of work of a producer/engineer, you will find some real clunkers. For example, did you know that Tchad Blake engineered
The Bangles, Different Light album? Anyway, to
contradict all that, Jason Lytle of Grandaddy produced this band of complete unknowns and by that
token I recommend it! It has the samelooped-out,
dreamy psychedelic/post Pavement swagger, complete with cheap keyboard sounds and crazy guitar
effects, that makes his band great. Plus, I know
that Jason is super-selective about what nonGrandaddy recordings he works on, so you know he
enjoyed doing this, and it shows. (Devil in the
Woods, PO Box 11348, Berkeley, CA 94712) Larry Crane
Secret Luminaries CD
Theres several ways to run a commercial studio. You can be outspoken, you can be highly visible on the local scene or you can quietly stay in
and do some great work. In Portland, I sometimes
feel that theres a misconception that my Jackpot!
Recordings is the only game in town for commercial indie-rock type recording. Wrong. Mike
Lastra has been quietly running Smegma Studios
out of his house, recording Godheadsilo, The
Spinanes and many others for many years. The NoNos are recent graduates of Mikes recording studio and all the better for it. Where I might have
leaned toward a more drum-heavy, murkier guitar
tone, he elicits a bright, almost new wave, feel and
it gives the band a perfect sound for their skewed
pop. More proof that theres a lot of recording
going on in Portland. (Chromosome, 3559 SE
Francis St. #B, Portland, OR 97202) -Larry Crane
TAPEOP
The Creative Music Recording Magazine
Get a free subscription to

Tape Op. All you have to do
is go to www.tapeop.com
and fill in the online subscription form and the next
issue will be delivered to you
TAPEOP
Subscribe:
Cool ass interviews with folks like Rupert Neve,

Tchad Blake, Butch Vig, John McEntire,
Mitch Easter, Fugazi, Steve Albini, Jon Brion,
Andy Wallace, Andy Johns, Jim ORourke,
Joe Chiccarelli, Rudy Van Gelder, Spot,
Alan Parsons, Bob Ezrin, Jack Endino,
Jim Dickinson, Mario Caldato, Ethan Johns,
Dave Fridmann, Malcolm Toft, Daniel Lanois,
Geoff Emerick, Hugh Padgham,
George Massenburg, and lots more.
its
Offer applicable only in the

US and UK. Other territories
are not free.
Free!
RECORDING HISTORY:
The AACM and the
Chicago Avant-Garde Jazz
Scene of the Mid-Sixties
by Steve Silverstein
While some of my favorite albums

were made in huge studios with big
budgets, Im also very excited about
records made under less ideal
circumstances. I find it really inspiring
when timeless records can be made by
people with limited experience and
resources. For this reason, I find the
early records from Chicagos Association
for the Advancement of Creative Music
(AACM) exciting. At a time when avantgarde jazz was developing in new
directions, without an obvious market
for these records, no one invested huge
resources in recording them. In the mid1960s, recording technology was far less
available than it is today. The music was
also drastically different from so much of
what had been recorded before that I
expected it may have presented
particular challenges in recording.
TAPEOP
L to R: Malcolm Chisolm, (engineer), Joseph Jarman & musicians listening to playback.
TAPEOP
Malcolm Chisolm, moving mic, Charles Clark on cello.

Both photos from the As If It Were The Seasons
album sessions by Joseph Jarman.
Summer 1968 at Per-Mar
Studios at Chess Records in Chicago.
Both photos by Greg Roberts.
The AACM was a nonprofit co-op, led

initially by Muhal Richard Abrams, which
helped to produce concerts of experimental
jazz. The organization evolved in part out of
the work of the Experimental Band, which
began in 1961, also under Abramss leadership.
The first recording of these musicians was the
Roscoe Mitchell Sextets Sound, which was
released on Bob Koesters Delmark label in
1966. Up until that album, the Chicago-based
label had released blues, traditional jazz, and
bebop. While Delmark had not previously been
involved in releasing such aggressively avantgarde music, Koester did have experience with
recording studios. He was very happy with his
experience recording at Hall Studios with
engineer Stu Black. When Black went to work
at Sound Studios, a converted radio station at
230 N. Michigan Avenue, Delmarks business
followed. Sound Studios had a Neve board, a 3
track recorder, and a good variety of
microphones. While the main room at Sound
was neither as large nor as alive as that at Hall
Studios, it was big enough to comfortably
position all of the musicians and their many
instruments.
Stu Black engineered Mitchells album at

Sound Studios, and Chuck Nessa, who managed
Koesters Jazz Record Mart at the time,
supervised the two sessions. Despite Blacks
experience as a journeyman engineer, Nessa
says that by far this was the strangest stuff hed
ever encountered. Nessa describes his job as
producer as a liaison between the techies and
musicians, between the money, which was
Koester, and the musicians. He was not
concerned about recording the variety of
instruments used on the album (you can fake
it in the mix later), and his advice to Black for
recording the harsh overtones used by the reed
players was that the music was going to get
very loud, so leave plenty of headroom.
All of the musicians were in one large room,
with some small baffles around the drums that
would not obstruct anyones view. Nessas sole
strategy to deal with bleed was to try to guess
while setting up. He feels that making
adjustments later screws up peoples
concentration, and prefers to go with the
decision you made at the beginning and live with
it. This approach illustrates his broader
philosophy that if theres a choice between
musical problems and technical, always err on
the side of the music and deal with the other shit
later. No overdubs were used on Sound or any
of these records.
Nessa was concerned about the musics
ability to communicate with new listeners, and
felt that achieving this goal was one of his tasks
as producer. He explains: When we recorded
Sound, the first day, we had run through the
pieces. I realized that this was the first AACM
music to appear and it was the first Roscoe
Mitchell record. Wed recorded Sound and wed
recorded Ornette, and there was no place that
you heard Roscoe Mitchell playing with drums
behind him. Afterwards, I said to Roscoe, Were
going to be giving this to a lot of people who
dont know anything cold about this; theyre
going to be coming to it blankly. To have the
leader of the group, who is the saxophone player,
never playing when there are any drums playing
is kind of bizarre. I said, Maybe on Ornette you
could do it with drums behind you. On the first
take that we did the first day, its a cello behind
him, playing pizzicato like crazy, and its
wonderful. But I said, Maybe we could do that
with drums behind you. So the next date when
we came back, he did it again with drums behind
him. And thats what came out.
In addition to containing the original take

of Ornette described above, the CD reissue
contains two separate takes of the piece
Sound, which were edited into one piece for
the original vinyl. Nessa explains that one take
was too long, and that the parts of the two
takes which they used worked together. This
fits Nessas idea that a record does not need to
reflect a live performance. He says, you cant
always do what you hear in your head on stage
either, or at a rehearsal.
The next two albums were recorded under
similar circumstances. Sound had upgraded to
a 3M 1/2 4 track deck before the recording of
Joseph Jarmans Song For. Delmarks third
AACM release, Muhal Richard Abramss Levels
and Degrees of Light, was recorded in 1967.
While the albums first session was recorded at
Sound, the second session was recorded at
Chess/Ter-Mar Studio, where Stu Black now
worked. Chess had a bigger live room and an
Ampex 1/2-inch 4 track.
TAPEOP
Chuck Nessa had left Delmark, so Koester

began to supervise the sessions. Koesters
approach to production was even more handsoff than Nessas. He says, Most of those records
were really produced by the artists anyway.
Thats essentially true of any jazz record. Im not
a guy whos going to say, You play this. I cant
do that; Im not a musician. Im a fan, and Im
not a terribly erudite fan. When it came to the
AACM, I was scared to death. I realized quickly
that between the engineer and Muhal and the
sidemen, that I had nothing to worry about.
The big change with Levels and Degrees of
Light was the active use of electronic
processing in the mix. The application of
reverb makes it sound very different than the
Mitchell and Jarman albums, though the
recording process was otherwise similar.
Electronics were already common by 1966,
Abrams says, just not frequently used in jazz
records. He points out that such effects have
become even more common today. While
Koester gives 100% freedom to musicians on
Delmark, he found the reverb a little bit
corny. He prefers recordings which more
closely resemble live performances. When Stu
Black once suggested to him moving drums
subtly left or right, Koester replied that they
dont put the drums on a cart in a club and carry
them across the bandstand. When they do, Ill
maybe record them that way.
After leaving Delmark, Chuck Nessa started

his own label, Nessa, to release Lester Bowies
Numbers One and Two and Roscoe Mitchells
Congliptious. These two albums, both recorded
by Stu Black, mark the beginning of the core
that would evolve into the Art Ensemble of
Chicago. Numbers One and Two introduced the
use of a single overhead microphone, which
Nessa felt would get a blend of what the
group sounded like.
Delmarks next three recording sessions
continued in the by-now established pattern.
Anthony Braxtons first album as leader, Three
Compositions of New Jazz, was recorded at
Sound Studios, with its new staff engineer Ron
Pickup. Koester says that theyd brought an
engineer into Sound from England, whod once
done a Beatles demo. That was his claim to
fame. He made them re-equip to some extent.
Koester describes Malcolm Chisholm, who
recorded Joseph Jarmans, As If It Were The
Seasons, as one of the deans of the Chicago
recording field. At the session for his second
Delmark album, Young at Heart/Wise in Time,
Muhal Richard Abrams was concerned about
the recording of Leo Smiths trumpet. Koester
explains that there was a metal horn, and a
metal microphone, and he got upset because
there was a plastic windscreen on the mic. He
thought that was a bad idea, because the metal
wouldnt reach the other metal because of the
plastic screen.
In addition to its own productions,
Delmark also licensed an album of Anthony
Braxtons own recordings. He had bought a
tape deck in Korea, and used it to record his
solo performances in the basement of the
Parkway Community Center. The double-album,
For Alto, which collects these recordings, came
out in 1969.
In 1969, with the Art Ensemble of Chicago
and Braxtons Creative Construction Company
leaving for Europe, many of the AACM
musicians had left Chicago. The last three
Delmark productions were two records by
Kalaparusha Maurice McIntyre, Humility in the
Light of the Creator and Forces and Feelings, and
Muhal Richard Abramss, Things to Come for
Those Now Gone. When the Jazz Record Mart
bought a building, funds were no longer
available to produce records which took so long
to recoup their expenses. Delmark did license
two final AACM releases, after which Koester
says, we went to sleep for a long time.
Bob Koester now runs

Riverside Studio. Heres some
choice observations on the
recording sessions that take
place there and the state of
musicianship these days.
> Only our clients ever put
drums in the drum booth,
and some of them take the
hint and dont.
> It seems they keep finding
more reasons to use more mics
and more channels on drums
every year.
> 20s jazz mixes itself
because we didnt have the
disadvantage of sophisticated
public address systems. They
had to mix it to play it. I just
wish jazz would go back to
that way, we could save hours
of time.
> Musicians come out of
college knowing more about
how to record than they do
about how to play sometimes.
We have guys who look at our
studios and kind of snicker.
> Layering, I hate layering.
I hate isolation booths. Jazz
is not the kind of music you
can manufacture that way.
> You spend half your time
deciding who you can believe
in as an engineer and then
you spend the other time
trying to keep him from bobbugging the musicians.
In 1975, Nessa released Old/Quartet,
which included basement recordings of early
configurations of the Art Ensemble. More of
these home recordings appeared on Nessas
1993 CD box set The Art Ensemble 1967/68.
Journalist Terry Martin recorded many of these
practices solely for his own listening. He had
a Wollensak 2 track reel-to-reel which hed
bought for playback. The deck came with 2
microphones, which went direct to stereo.
Martin recorded with these mics, and ran the
deck at its fastest speed, 7 1/2 ips.
Martin claims no credit in the good sound

of the recordings. It had nothing to do with my
abilities. I just used common sense in setting up
the two mics. Nessa describes the site of the
earlier recordings as a big square Victorian
house, with a large basement, brick walls, wood
stud ceiling. Martin says that the room was
acoustically very suitable. With only two
microphones, he had one mic overhead, which
was picking up the horns, mainly, and the
drums. He put the mic slightly closer to the
reeds than the slightly louder brass
instruments. The other mic was directed towards
Malachi Favorss bass, that could also pick up
some of the drum sounds. He also credits the
musicians ability to interact and form their own
group dynamics as contributing to the
recording quality.
People that I work

with, in general,
are making music
because it means a
lot to them
Nessa describes the site of the later

recordings as a more modern townhouse with a
finished basement and a finished ceiling.
Martin found that room inferior sonically. The
session would not necessarily have been so
promising, he says, except there was a large
group of musicians coming into a fairly small
space. The musicians bodies reduced the echo
which would otherwise have been prominent.
TAPEOP
While I didnt find as much naivete as Id

expected, I was excited by so much of what I
did discover about these records. I had known
nothing about Ter-Mar or Sound Studios, and
learned that they were well-equipped studios
staffed by experienced engineers, rather than
the more naive settings Id visualized. Without
todays abundance of cheap and small
equipment, its not surprising, in retrospect,
that such facilities really were the only
available option. Given the cost of these fully
equipped studios and the labels tight budget,
its impressive that so many records did get
finished. Joseph Jarmans gratitude in
describing Stu Black as an excellent engineer
was especially nice to hear. Most exciting of
all, for me, is learning that people involved
with making these records still do recording 30
years later. Delmark now has Riverside Studio
in its own building, and Bob Koester
supervises sessions there. Chuck Nessa does
recording and mastering work. Terry Martin is
still interested in amateur recording.
If not in the ways that I expected, I find
the early AACM recordings even more inspiring
now that I know so much about them.
-Steve Albini in Tape Op No. 10

Photo by Chris Carnel
(ENDPAGE RANT)
JUST LISTEN!
Tape Op gets
a lot of CDs in
the mail. Some
are great, and
we play them
to death, but
many just plain
stink. Why?
TAPEOP
Photo by Chris Carnel
The songwriting process is beyond the scope of this

short column, but its obviously the most important
element. Recording only exists to capture the song and
music and is not the most important part! It seems that
many songwriters, especially in the indie/alternative
rock world, have incredibly small record collections or
a really narrow perspective on what they plan to
achieve with their music. This is a big problem. Im not
saying that schizophrenic genre hopping is cool
(`cause it usually sucks) but one thing Ive noticed
about all great artists is that they draw inspiration from
many diverse sources and often times the music they
create is vastly different from what they listen to.
Songwriting should be familiar without being obvious.
If you can guess, on first listen, what lyrics are coming
up or what chord progression the chorus will use, then
a song is predictable and weak. If the lyric line follows
the chords so close that theyre nearly one-in-thesame, then the whole tune feels one-dimensional.
Arrangements are very, very important too. Cutting out
dead spots in the songs is very crucial, as can be
repeating an earlier part in order to reinforce thematic
elements or to give a sense of resolve. All of the above
can be learned by listening. When you put on your
favorite record, listen to how the songs are structured.
How do the vocal melodies fit the chords? Whats the
song structure? Youll be surprised at how simple some
songs are and how complex some that appear easy
really are. Listening is also incredibly valuable to the
engineer/producer/recording geek. Maybe even more
Maybe nobody is listening.

The recording process is great.
You can create amazing sonic
landscapes that draw the
listener in. You can bolster the
mood of a song with great
overdubs and studio tricks that
would be impossible in a live
setting. Theres just one
problem. You must have a
great song to begin with.
valuable to the recordist than the artist. When I hear

poorly done home recordings, what usually strikes me
first is how the piece doesnt sound right. This right
isnt a rule laid down by some god of music, its what
weve grown accustomed to hearing from the last 90
years of recorded music. Not that Im saying rules
shouldnt be broken, but if youre trying to get
someone to listen to a recording of a band, it should
sound similar to records by bands that pursue a
common aesthetic. What I hear is people trying too
hard. Every piece of the drum kit has been close micd
and EQd drastically and the bass has been tampered
with until only the lowest lows (Make it sound deep,
man!) and highest highs remain. What bugs me is,
that with a proper amount of listening and perspective,
all this could be avoided. Just as a songwriter should
listen to the music of others to know what works and
what doesnt, recordists should listen to records, a lot,
to know what makes them tick.
Personally, Id be wary of working with anyone,
engineer or artist, who hasnt done a lot of listening.
If youre gonna bend the rules of songwriting or
recording, you have to be familiar with the rules. If
you havent put in the time at home listening to
records, how fine tuned will your ears be when its time
to mix an album? Its music, and it all starts with
keeping your ears open.
-Larry Crane

Butch Vig: Abbey Road Pictorial

Загружено:

Сведения о документе

Исходное описание:

Оригинальное название

Авторское право

Доступные форматы

Поделиться этим документом

Поделиться или встроить документ

Параметры публикации

Этот документ был вам полезен?

Это неприемлемый материал?

Авторское право:

Доступные форматы

Butch Vig: Abbey Road Pictorial

Загружено:

Авторское право:

Доступные форматы

TAPEOP

A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

Abbey Road Pictorial

Garbage & Smart Studios

a week recording with Elliott Smith in London

Knitting Factory Studio

samplers, turntables & downtime

with Sascha Van Oertzen and the Trident console

their home studio fun

An Intro to Analog Tape

Neutral Milk Hotel

my friends at Substance Media Works. Theyve agreed to take on

Uhh, I dont have any big secrets to

Blah, blah, blah. Lame equipment

I personally dont know anything about the EV

Send Letters & Questions

3 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

I like the idea of destroying peoples stereos.

continued on the next page>>>

Creative Director & Designer

The Proofreading and Typing Team

Production Asst. &Office Manager

Mail Answerer and Order Filler

Pro Audio, Studios & Record Labels: John Baccigaluppi

Subscriptions are free in the USA:

Canadian & Foreign subscriptions, see instructions at www.tapeop.com

Circulation, Subscription and Address Changes

Postmaster and all general inquiries to:

4 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

Tape Op Magazine, PO Box 160995, Sacramento, CA 95816

Interview & photos by

Sascha & the

Sascha von Oertzen,

A studio manager juggles responsibilities

5 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

continued on the next page>>>

So what instruments do you

I heard that you are a very, very

Yeah, everybody from Frank

Well, they told me all about it!

becomes really important. The musician wants Wow!

Well, his name is Jerry Granelli and hes from

6 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

continued on the next page>>>

How long did it take to record it?

them, they are like, We want to make sure

Do you find that there are big That must be hard.

Not like the actual one...

How many channels?

And that was all acquired back in

Well, no. There are plenty of jazz sessions that

Yeah, we worked on integrating it all until

And before that it was done on...

7 A Magazine About Creative Music Recording

it over and over and just like... hard vibes!

Everything tends to come out when

A little Mackie mixer, which are totally fine but

What is some of the studios gear

continued on the next page>>>

Lexicon 224 and PCN 90. The best sounding

collects interviews & articles from issues 11-20 of Tape Op Magazine

the Book About Creative Music Recording