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Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

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Author
Kishor Patil

Message
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:06 am

Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

SEFI Member

Dear Sefins
As illustrated by krane hope so all doubt are cleared with respect to use of bracing rod in PEB. I
strongly propose to go through below mentioned references by krane and keep updated our self
with latest technology rather than blaming PEB manufactures.
Mr Krane I would like to say thanks for posting your view.
Joined: 20 Apr 2011
Posts: 7

Thanks & Regards,

Kishor Patil

From: krane [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 2:02 PM
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

Dear Mr. Barua,

After so many to and fro email on this subject, need is identified to provide some literature on
usage of rods in bracing systems...
1. AISC steel design guide 7 - Industrial buildings roofs to anchor rods - second edition - by James
Fisher
2. X - Bracing anchorage connection under static and seismic loading conditions - Technical paper
by R. Ralph Sinno, ASCE Journal of structural engineering, November 1993.
3. Any good latest text book on steel structural design
Tension only x braced configuration is the cheapest and most effective and is employed where
other consideration do not preclude its use. It is especially applicable to bracing systems with
large panel sizes i.e. in height or width or both.
Further, please note as per AISC, tension only X brace rods are allowed in OCBF for all seismic
applications. Brace rods are NOT allowed in OCBF with K, V or inverted V configurations as these
require tension-compression braces and seismically compact members. Use of brace rods is
prohibited in SCBF for the same reason.
In order to calculate limit state of rods below sections from AISC are to be referred.
1. Tension yielding in the main rod body - AISC D2(a)
2. Tension rupture in the main rod body - AISC D2(b)
3. Rod design based on the major thread diameter - AISC J3.6 and AISC Table J3.2
Indian code do not allow rod in seismic applications. However design equations are available in

20-01-2015 15:02

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

2 of 7

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58226

Indian code for brace rod design.

I represent TATA BlueScope Steel, India, company which is in metal building system construction.
I will be delighted to clarify all your doubts regarding bracing rods in metal building systems.
Do let me know if you need any other detail to clarify your doubt.
Regards,
K. Rane

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:10 PM, ibarua forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
Quote:
18th June 2013
Er Janakiraman has answered my question: PEB manufacturers sacrifice safety and stability for
the sake of saving a few kilos of steel in the X bracings. We should not allow them to get away
with such dodgy practices. When drawings up the specifications for PEB buildings, the correct
design procedure should be prescribed. The problem is that the building owners /clients often
take the side of the PEB vendors. I'm in the process of designing a manufacturing facility
where we shall be inviting tenders for a PEB. The tender shall be an item rate tender where
the vendor has to quote per square metre rates for the building frame, the roof sheeting, wall
cladding and the various other components. The design specs & standards shall be specified by
us. Let's see how PEB vendors react.
Indrajit Barua.
From: janakiraman
Sent: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:49:02
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) (general@sefindia.org
(general@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear ibarua Sir,
I had been working with consultants in India for 5 years and had been designing X-bracings
using angles and hot rolled channels etc..designed for both Tension and compression force.
Later I moved to PEB manufacturers and found that the X bracings can be designed as tension
only members using Rods, cables or angles. This way the economy of the structure is achieved
to a certain extent. At the same time PEB manufacturers claim that there is no compromise is
made on safety. I did not to agree this concept at all in the beginning. But it has been 7 years
with PEB manufacturers and supplying buildings which has been designed using the tension
only bracing concept. These buildings are standing to this date after sustaining occasional sand
storms in this middle east region.
This tension only bracing works for the same reason as explained by Mr. C. Channakeshava.
"They have to take up only tension while in compression they are supposed to buckle and
relieve the force. This is actually a nonlinear phenomenon and can be addressed by tension
only members of commercial software. Alternatively, knowing the direction of forces, the user
can actually remove the compression members and design the structure which is quite simple.
One thing to be remembered is that buckling "does not always lead to failure". The member
can still perform well in tension".

To all,
Just to share a thought that in general, PEB buildings in UAE rely on the diaphragm action
from a combination of roof struts along the lateral force's load path and tension bracings in
both walls and roof or portal bracings in wall and X bracings in roof.
Contradictory in the USA, most of the PEB companies take the diaphragm capacity of the
panels i.e. panel shear capacity to further economize the structure. But this idea will not
eliminate the presence of a strut member at the bracing break locations.
This decision is based on the general belief/experience of the manufacturer I believe.
However It is not advisable to avoid strut members even if you can theoretically justify that
the panel and purlin is designed to act as diaphragm .
This will lead to over stress and repeated stress in self drilled panel screws which would fail
due to fatigue and also while erecting the building the purlin, girts and panels are erected after
the main frames and bracings are erected. SO having struts at roof and walls are very
important for the building right from the period of erection till its design life time.
Best regards
Janakiraman Narasimhan

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:40 AM, ibarua wrote:

20-01-2015 15:02

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

3 of 7

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58226

--auto removed--

Posted via Email

Back to top
ibarua

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:17 am

Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

General Sponsor

21st June 2013

Dear Mr Rane,

Joined: 26 Jan 2003

Posts: 1004

I agree that 'tension only X-braced rods' are the cheapest method of providing resistance to
horizontal loads -- cheapest to the PEB vendor, of course. But I have my doubts on the
effectiveness of the method. Being cheap cannot be a criterion for its acceptance as a structural
solution.
Indrajit Barua.
From: krane <forum@sefindia.org>
Sent: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:05:50
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear Mr. Barua,
After so many to and fro email on this subject, need is identified to provide some literature on
usage of rods in bracing systems...
1. AISC steel design guide 7 - Industrial buildings roofs to anchor rods - second edition - by James
Fisher
2. X - Bracing anchorage connection under static and seismic loading conditions - Technical paper
by R. Ralph Sinno, ASCE Journal of structural engineering, November 1993.
3. Any good latest text book on steel structural design
Tension only x braced configuration is the cheapest and most effective and is employed where
other consideration do not preclude its use. It is especially applicable to bracing systems with
large panel sizes i.e. in height or width or both.
Further, please note as per AISC, tension only X brace rods are allowed in OCBF for all seismic
applications. Brace rods are NOT allowed in OCBF with K, V or inverted V configurations as these
require tension-compression braces and seismically compact members. Use of brace rods is
prohibited in SCBF for the same reason.
In order to calculate limit state of rods below sections from AISC are to be referred.
1. Tension yielding in the main rod body - AISC D2(a)
2. Tension rupture in the main rod body - AISC D2(b)
3. Rod design based on the major thread diameter - AISC J3.6 and AISC Table J3.2
Indian code do not allow rod in seismic applications. However design equations are available in
Indian code for brace rod design.
I represent TATA BlueScope Steel, India, company which is in metal building system construction.
I will be delighted to clarify all your doubts regarding bracing rods in metal building systems.
Do let me know if you need any other detail to clarify your doubt.
Regards,
K. Rane

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:10 PM, ibarua <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:

20-01-2015 15:02

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

4 of 7

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58226

18th June 2013

Er Janakiraman has answered my question: PEB manufacturers sacrifice safety and stability for
the sake of saving a few kilos of steel in the X bracings. We should not allow them to get away
with such dodgy practices. When drawings up the specifications for PEB buildings, the correct
design procedure should be prescribed. The problem is that the building owners /clients often
take the side of the PEB vendors. I'm in the process of designing a manufacturing facility
where we shall be inviting tenders for a PEB. The tender shall be an item rate tender where
the vendor has to quote per square metre rates for the building frame, the roof sheeting, wall
cladding and the various other components. The design specs & standards shall be specified by
us. Let's see how PEB vendors react.
Indrajit Barua.
From: janakiraman
Sent: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:49:02
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear ibarua Sir,
I had been working with consultants in India for 5 years and had been designing X-bracings
using angles and hot rolled channels etc..designed for both Tension and compression force.
Later I moved to PEB manufacturers and found that the X bracings can be designed as tension
only members using Rods, cables or angles. This way the economy of the structure is achieved
to a certain extent. At the same time PEB manufacturers claim that there is no compromise is
made on safety. I did not to agree this concept at all in the beginning. But it has been 7 years
with PEB manufacturers and supplying buildings which has been designed using the tension
only bracing concept. These buildings are standing to this date after sustaining occasional sand
storms in this middle east region.
This tension only bracing works for the same reason as explained by Mr. C. Channakeshava.
"They have to take up only tension while in compression they are supposed to buckle and
relieve the force. This is actually a nonlinear phenomenon and can be addressed by tension
only members of commercial software. Alternatively, knowing the direction of forces, the user
can actually remove the compression members and design the structure which is quite simple.
One thing to be remembered is that buckling "does not always lead to failure". The member
can still perform well in tension".

To all,
Just to share a thought that in general, PEB buildings in UAE rely on the diaphragm action
from a combination of roof struts along the lateral force's load path and tension bracings in
both walls and roof or portal bracings in wall and X bracings in roof.
Contradictory in the USA, most of the PEB companies take the diaphragm capacity of the
panels i.e. panel shear capacity to further economize the structure. But this idea will not
eliminate the presence of a strut member at the bracing break locations.
This decision is based on the general belief/experience of the manufacturer I believe.
However It is not advisable to avoid strut members even if you can theoretically justify that
the panel and purlin is designed to act as diaphragm .
This will lead to over stress and repeated stress in self drilled panel screws which would fail
due to fatigue and also while erecting the building the purlin, girts and panels are erected after
the main frames and bracings are erected. SO having struts at roof and walls are very
important for the building right from the period of erection till its design life time.
Best regards
Janakiraman Narasimhan

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:40 AM, ibarua wrote:

--auto removed--

Posted via Email

Back to top
raghuveerks

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:19 pm

Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

...

Dear Friends,
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 60

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http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58226

In my opinion the girts provided for side wall sheeting will acts as compression members to
transfer compressive force & brace rods will acts as tension members, based on loading condition.

The design report provided by vendor for one project covers designs of main elements but not the
girts/x brace.

Regards,

Raghuveer

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:46 PM, YOGESH.VADGAVE <forum@sefindia.org

(forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors provides rod
bracings .
They state following points
1.Rod bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are providing
HILL side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one horizontal
member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing as per
MBMA system

Posted via Email

Back to top
Dr. N. Subramanian

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:42 am

Post subject: Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

General Sponsor

Dear All,
The sheeting provides enormous stiffness to the structure in industrial buildings. But to consider
its effects in design we need to provide special shear connections. Prof. Bryan , Davies and
co-researchers of Univ. of Salford, UK did considerable work in the 1970s on stressed skin design
of buildings and discuss about these connections. To know more read: http://www.fgg.unilj.si/kmk/esdep/master/wg09/l0500.htm

Joined: 21 Feb 2008

Posts: 4846
Location: Gaithersburg, MD,
U.S.A.

Best wishes,
NS
raghuveerks wrote:
Dear Friends,

In my opinion the girts provided for side wall sheeting will acts as compression members to
transfer compressive force & brace rods will acts as tension members, based on loading
condition.

The design report provided by vendor for one project covers designs of main elements but not
the girts/x brace.

Regards,

20-01-2015 15:02

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness

6 of 7

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58226

Raghuveer

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:46 PM, YOGESH.VADGAVE <forum> wrote:

Quote:
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors
provides rod bracings .
They state following points
1.Rod bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are
providing HILL side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one
horizontal member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing
as per MBMA system

Posted via Email

Back to top
vijay sureka

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:31 pm

Post subject: Please visit the following page

SEFI Member

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15317&highlight=
Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 10

thanks

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