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InterviewwithGeorgeRoberts

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InterviewwithGeorgeRoberts
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InterviewwithGeorgeRoberts
CoronadoFerryLanding
12August2004
Iamhonoredtohavetheopportunitytointerview
GeorgeRoberts,Mr.BassTrombone,whohasfigured
soprominentlyinmanyOTJForumconversationsand
topics.Astudioveteranwithmorethan6000movie
andrecordingcredits,Georgeissinglehandedly
responsibleforbringingthebasstrombonefromlast
chairtosolovoicewithhislyricalandexpressive
playing.
Georgehasbeeninterviewedinnumerabletimesby
manydifferentjournalsandmagazines.Wearenotlimitedbythespaceconstraintstypically
foundinprintedmedia,sothisinterviewcanbepresentedtoyouinitsentirety,givingyou
somerealinsightintothemanbehindthehorn.
IwouldliketothankMr.Robertsfortakingthetimetotalktous,forheisverybusyandhis
timeisextremelyvaluable.Thanks,George!
George,whenandwhydidyoustartplayingthetrombone?
Well,mymother,inDesMoines,IowaaskedifIwantedtogoseemybrotherplaybaritone
saxophoneinthejuniorhighschoolband.Isaidthatwouldbefine.WewenttoWashingtonIrving
JuniorHighSchoolinDesMoines,IowawherethebandwasplayingandmymotheraskedmeifI
wouldliketoplayoneofthoseinstrumentsonstage.ItoldmymotherthatIwouldlovetoplayone
ofthosethingsthatgoesupanddownwithyourhands.Mothersaidthatweshouldgoaskthe
teacher.TheteacherinformedmymotherthatIwouldneverplaytrombonebecausemyarmswere
notlongenough.Theteacherputmeonclarinet.IquicklyrepliedthatIdidnotwanttoplayclarinet
Iwantedtoplaytrombone!Icouldsmelltheslideoilalready.Anyway,Iendedupplayingclarinet
intheschoolbandfortwoyears.Itwasreallykindoffunny,thewayIendeduponclarinetbutIjust
hatedit!
Iwantedtoplaytrombone!So,finally,oneday,IwentintodowntownDesMoinestothebasement
ofthismusicstoreanduponthetopshelf,wasthisold,dusty,beatuptrombone.Justreallybeat
up.Now,Ihavetoexplainthatwereallydidnthaveaheckofalotofmoneywhenwewerekids
(19391940).IstartedplayingtrombonewhenIwastwelve.Anyway,Isawthishornandwentto
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talktotheshopownerandaskedhowmuchhewouldsellthattrombonefor.HesaidthatIcould
probablyhaveitforfivedollars.
NowmybrotherandI,whenwewantednewbikes,wouldgodowntotheWesternAutoStoreand
getusedbikesoutoftheback,takethemhomeandpaintthem.Thesewereournewbikesbecause
wecouldntafford(real)newbikes.So,ItoldmydadthatIhadfoundthistrombonedowninthe
basementofDesMoinesMusic.ItolddadthatitwasthegreatestlookinghornIdeverseen.Ialso
tolddadthat,ifheboughtthattromboneforme,Iwouldpaintit(stressingthatitwasonlyfive
dollars)andthatIwouldhaveabrandnewtromboneandcouldthenstartplayingtromboneinthe
schoolband.Dadtoldmethathewouldgolookatitthenextday.So,alldaylongIkeptthinking,
boy,Icantwaittogethome.
Anyway,Icamehomethroughthebackdoor,notthefrontdoor.Didntgothroughthelivingroom
butwentstraighttodadandaskedifhehadseenthetrombone.Dadsaid,George,Isawthat
tromboneandIwouldntgiveanickelforit.Isaidtodad,youdontlovemeIwanttoplay
trombone.Ivegottohaveatrombone!Itolddadthatsincehedidntloveme,Iwasrunningaway
fromhome!Dadsaid,okay,fine,Illhelpyoupackyourbags.Anyway,Igotmadandstormedupto
mybedroomandnoticedthatitwasstartingtogetdarkoutside.Ipackedasmallbagofsocksand
shortsandstompedoutthebackdoorofthehouse.Therewasanalleybesideourhouse.Igotabout
halfwayupthealleyanditwasgettingdarkandspooky,soIthoughtthatmaybeIwouldputoffthis
runningawayideauntilthenextmorning.So,IwentbackinsideandinformedmyfatherthatIwas
stillrunningawaybutwasputtingitoffuntilmorning.Iwassuchafoolbutlearnedalessonthat
IveneverforgottenaslongasIvelived.
Myfathersaid,getinthelivingroomandsitdownIwanttotalktoyou.So,Istompedintothe
livingroomandlyingonthecouch,inanopencase,wasabrandnewtrombone.ItwasaSuperOlds.
AndIlookedatthathornandhadjustmadethebiggestfoolofmyselfever!Istartedcrying.Itstill
givesmefunnyfeelingsaboutitbecausethatwasatrueloveaffair,mydadgoingdownthereand
gettingmeanewtrombone.Now,dadpaideverymonthforthattrombone,hecouldntafforditbut
hediditoutofhisloveforme.
Ithought,withdaddoingthis,Ivegottolearntoplaythistrombonenow!HetookmetoDrake
University,whichwasonlysixblocksfromwherewelived,andgotJackDalby,whowasakidgetting
histrombonecredentialsatDrake,andaskedJackifhecouldteachmetoplaytrombone.Jacksaid
thathewouldteachmebuttolddadnottoletmetouchthatnewhornuntilhecouldtalktome,so
Iwouldknowhowtorespectandtreatthehorn.Mydadsaidfine,sofinallyJackDalbyandIstarted
doingthingssuchaswholenotes,longtonesandslurs.Jackwasabaritoneplayer,too,andhadthe
greatestbaritonesoundthatyoueverheardinyourlife!
JackDalbyandRobertMarstellerplayedtogetherintheLAPhilharmonicandwerecompetitorsinall
thatwasgoingonwiththebaritonebackinthosedays.Jacksaid,wellIwononceinawhile(laughs).
Oneday,myfathercameinandsaid,George,getdressed.Imgoingtotakeyoudowntohearareal
tromboneplayernow.DadtookmedowntotheShrineAuditoriuminDesMoines,Iowa,wherethe
U.S.MarineBand,ThePresidentsOwn,wasplaying.ThemaintrombonesoloistwasRobertIsele.
Youknow,JerryCimera,Arban,allthosepeople.Iwas13andhecomesoutonthestageandstarts
playingthemostamazingintricatepassagehighandlowallovertheplaceandmythoughtswere
like,amIgoingtohavetoplaylikethatonmytrombone?Icouldneverdothat!Iimmediately
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wantedtomeetRobertIselebecausewhensomebodyplaysthatway,itisareflectionoftheir
personality.IwantedtomeetRobertIseletofindoutwhatkindofaguyhewasthatenabledhimto
playthatway.Histechnicalskillsweresogoodthathejustreallystartledme.
IdidacliniclastyearatPennStateUniversitywithallmykidsfromsixdifferentcollegestrombone
choirsandthingsandtheMarinetrombonesectionwasthere.Imentionedtosomeofthemthatall
mylife,IhadwantedtomeetRobertIsele.IwantedtositandtalkwithhimbutIcouldneverfind
outwherehelived.Well,theMarinesinformedmethatRobertIselelivedaroundPennState
somewhere.Hisunderstudy,JimErdman,overheardthisconversationandcalledRobertIseleonthe
phoneandhandedmethephone.Isaid,hello,whoisthis?Theothervoicesaid,thisisRobertIsele.
Isaid,areyouseriousIvebeenwantingtomeetyoufor60years!IstartedtotellMr.Iseleabout
myselfandJimErdmanbrokeintoinformme,George,heknowswhoyouareheknows
everythingthatyouhaveeverdoneandheisagreatfanofyours.Isaid,hesafanofmine?How
couldthatbe?Allmylife,everyday,IthoughtaboutRobertIsele.So,afterIfinishedtheclinicat
PennStatewiththekids,JimErdmansaid,George,getyourhorn,getinthecar.Everybodywere
allgoingovertoRobertIseleshouse.IjustcouldntbelievethatafteralltheseyearsIwasfinally
goingtomeetRobertIsele.
So,weweredrivingdownthestreetandtherewasthisoldfellow(hes86)standingout,lookingup
anddownthestreetwavingtothecar.Igotoutofthecarandlookedathimandsaid,youreRobert
Isele.Hesaid,thatsright,George,andIgavehimabighug.Wewentintothehouseandtalkedfor
threehours.Heisthemostwonderfulguyintheworld.Hishumoreverythingabouthimisexactly
whyheplaysthewayhedoes.Heplaystechnicallyfantasticbuthealsoisoneofthegreatest
interpretersthatIveeverheardinmylife.HeplaysasongjustlikeFrank(Sinatra)sangand,yougo
fromoneendofthetrombonetotheother,thisiswhyIvealwayswantedtomeethim,andfound
outthatheplaysthatwaybybeingtheneatest,mostwonderfulpersoninthewholeworld.So,your
playingisreallyareflectionofyourpersonality.Thetypeofpersonyouareisthewayyouaregoing
toplay.Istillbelievethistodayandtellallmykidsthatyourpersonalityisgoingtodictatewhatyou
doonthehorn.
Youknow,Iveneverheardadownerplayabeautifulballadinmylife.Never.Youloseifyoure
negative.Smileandbehappywhenyouplayandlovewhatyouredoing!Thatswhereitsgoingto
happenandthatwasRobertIsele.Anyway,Iwaited60yearstomeetRobertIsele,sowhenwegot
uptoleave,Iturnedtohimandsaid,Robert,youdontknowhowmuchthismeanstome,andI
gavehimabighug.Isteppedbacktoleaveandnoticedthathehadtearscomingdownhisface.
ThatreallyshookmeupbecauseIabsolutelyadoretheguy.Hewasalwaysadreamformeofwhat
atromboneplayershouldbe.Andthatsexactlywhathewas.Thatwasoneofthemostwonderful
meetingsthatIveeverhadinmylifethreehourswithRobertIsele.
IplayedtenortromboneandwasinaconservatoryouthereinLA.Istudiedcompositionandsuch
andhadafriendabassplayerwhoaskedmeifIwantedtogoontheroad?Isaid,what?Make
moneywithmytrombone?Oh,boy!SoIlefttheconservatoryandwentontheroadwithahotel
band.ItwasjustsomedipsyhotelmusicbutIwasmakingmoneywithmytrombone.Myparents
werereallyproudofme(tongueincheek)formakingmoneywithmytrombone!
IwaswiththeRayRobbinsBandinMilwaukeewhenIgotacallfromGeneKrupasBandinChicago.
Afriendofmine,abassplayer(DonSimpson)fromDesMoinessaid,George,thetromboneplayer
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fromKrupasbandisleaving.WouldyouliketocomeonoverandplaytrombonewithKrupasband?
Donsaid,IknowyoureoverinMilwaukeeanditsclose.Isaid,youbet!Idlovetodothat!So,Iquit
RayRobbinsBandandjoinedGeneKrupasBandinChicagotwoorthreeweekslater.Iwalkedinand
youknowwhowasplaying1sttromboneinthoseyears?(47or48)Well,itwasUrbieGreen.Talk
aboutastounded!Iwasabout18or19yearsoldatthetime.UrbieGreen,GeneMulluns,and
myself.Whatabunchofskinny,littlebrats!TositnightafternightandlistentoUrbieplaywasone
ofthehighlightsofmylife.HeisoneofthedearestfriendsthatIhave.

Whendidyoumaketheswitchtobasstrombone?
Ithought,atthetime,thateveryyoungpersonshouldsitdownbythemselvesandaskthemselves,
whattheheckamIdoing?WhatamIdoingnow?WhatshouldIbedoing?Ithought,ifImgoingto
playtenortrombone,IvegotalotofworktodobecauseIdontplaylikeUrbieGreen.UrbieGreenis
aheckofabettertromboneplayerthanIam.Ivegottofindsomewaytobeasgoodorequalto
UrbieorImoutofthisbusiness.ItriedtoexaminemyownplayingandfindsomethingthatIdid
better.Ithought,mylownotesareprettygoodandmypedaltonesarebetterthanUrbies.Isaid,
waitaminute!IfIweretogetabasstrombonelikeBartBarcelona(whoplayedpowerfully,likea
bull.Tough.Loud.Always.Neveranythingbeautifullikeaballad.Thebasstrombone,bytheway,is
themostbeautifulballadinstrumentintheworld.Really,itslikevelvet.Itsthemalevoice)in
Kentonsband,thatmightbetheanswer.IaskedGeneifhemindedifIswitchedtobasstrombone.
Hesaid,no,gorightahead,weregoingtoTexaswhereUrbiesbrotherlivesandwecangetout
someoldGeorgeWilliamschartsandsomeoftheStravinskystuffthatssogoodwithfour
trombones.So,fineIswitchedtobasstromboneandonenightGenesaid,George,Ivenever
heardyouplay.Godownfrontandplaysomething.Youknow,theaudienceusedtostandaround
theband,rightupfront.SoIwentdownandlookedatNormSchnell,thepianoplayerandaskedhim
toplayWhereorWhen,IstartonalowEb.So,Ibegantoplayandwhenwewerefinishedalotof
peoplereallystartedtoapplaudwildly.Thatjustshookmeup.Really,itdid.ThatwasthefirsttimeI
hadeverbeeninfrontofabigbandaudience.Oh,boyIalmostflipped!
Istartedtothink,aremythoughtsright?ShouldIbedoingthismore?Allthetime?Iwentbackand
satdownandUrbielookedatmeandsaid,George,youretheonlyoneIknowwhoplaysthatlikea
trombone.POW!!!Thatsetintomelikeyouwouldntbelieve.Fromthatmomenton,Idecidedthat
itsgottobethegreatestsonghornintheworld.Thatmeansbeingasinger.IwanttobeUrbie
Green,justanoctavelower.ThatsexactlywhatIsetouttodo.WithKenton,laterJohnnyRichards
IplayedStellaByStarlight,Yesterdays,AloneTogether,andsomeotherthingslikethat.
IwenttoRenoforawhileafterKrupasbandbrokeup.ThatswhereImetSue,mywife.Kenton
calledmewhileIwasinReno.Thehotelmaidcameinandsaid,theresamanonthephonenamed
StanKentonwhowantstotalktoyou.So,IgrabbedthephoneandStanaskedmeifIwantedto
joinhisband.Iwasscreaming,YES!!!intothephone.
So,IstartedpreparingmyselfbymemorizingaboutsixorsevenofKentonstunes.Youknow,the
basstromboneparts.SueandIwouldgooutsideIwouldpracticeoutsidetotrytobuildupmylung
capacity.Afterplayingwiththeshowbandandthehotelband,Ineededsomelungcapacityinorder
tosurvivewithStan.So,Iwouldgooutsideandpracticelongtonesandstuff.
WewereontheroadforsometimeandIwroteaterriblechart.JohnnyRichardsheardit(duringthis
period,hewroteStellaByStarlightandalltheseothergreattunes)andwasntrealimpressed.You
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know,thesongthingswerethekey,evenwithKenton.Themusicianswhowentdownfrontwith
Kenton,likeMaynard(Ferguson)wereplayingtriplehighCsandenoughnotestochokeamule.
WhenIwentdownfront,itwasalwaysdah,dahdah,daaahhh,dahdahfromsomebeautifulballad.
Theaudiencealwayslovedmyballads.Therestoftheplayerswouldsay,thatlittlesoandso!They
wereplayingtheirtailsoffandIwasjuststandingthereplayingmylongtoneballads.
IthankUrbieinsomanydifferentdirectionsforthattimeIcamebackafterplayingmysolo,for
tellingmethatImtheonlyonewhoplaysthebasstrombonelikeatrombone.Well,itisa
trombone!Basstromboneshouldnthaveasoundlikeabaritoneoratuba,oranything.Itsa
trombonesound.Basstromboneshouldberesonantandproject.ThedirectionIwentwastoput
thattrombonesoundtogetherwithsongs.

Alongthatline,canyougiveusyourthoughtsabouttheimportanceofsound?
Formyself,Ihonestlybelievethatyouvegottohavethegreatestsoundintheworld.Ifsomebodys
goingtohireyouasatromboneplayer,theyrehiringyoubecauseofthefantasticsoundthatyou
have.Unlessyoureintorealintricatejazzorthattypeofthingbuteventhen,Ithink,thegreatjazz
players,thereallygoodonesUrbie,Watrousallhavegreatsound(poundsthetableforemphasis).
Sound,tome,isthenumberonemostimportantthingyoucando.Getthegreatestsoundinthe
worldandlearnwhattodowithit.Ithastobethatway.
WhydoIthinkthebasstrombonerepresentsthemalevoice?IwaswithSinatraforsolong.Where
hesangiswhereImtalking.Whereyouretalking.Thatisthebasstrombonelyricalrange.Too
manybasstromboneplayerswanttobesmartandplayeverythingdownanoctave.Youkillthesong
thatwaybecauseyoucantgetoutofthehole.Youvegottoputyourselfintothelyricalrangeofthe
hornoryouwontbeabletoplaywithit.

DoyoufeelthatwaspartofFrankssuccess,aswell?Thatherecognizedhowclosely
theaveragepersoncouldidentifywithhissound?
Absolutely!IhavealwaysfeltandthoughtthatFrankSinatrawasoneofthegreatesttrombone
teacherswhoeverlived.Ifyoulistentohisphrasing,thewayyousaywhatyouplaytheresthebig
one.SayittherightwaywithagreatsoundandIthinkthatsabasstrombone!
AndthatsthebestthingIcansayaboutsound.Longtonesandslurs.Ivebeensayingthatallofmy
life.Youknow,kidsoftenaskme,howdoyoudothat?Playaslowballad,thatsthegreatestwayto
playlongtonesandslursthatyoucanfind.Makeasongoutofyourlongtones.Sing,sing,sing!
Thatsmyfeelingaboutlongtonesandtheimportanceofamusical,songlikeapproachtoplaying
thebasstrombone.
Therewasatime,whenIfirstwentouttoLAoneofthebigcontractorswhodidmostofthehiring,
heworkedforBobbyHelfer.HewouldntreallyhiremeattheverybeginningbecauseIwasajazzer.
Oh,hethoughtthatajazzercouldntplaylegitimateorsemilegit,liketheydoonmotionpictures.
Like,allthesebigpictureshadAlfredNewmanandElmerBernstein,andallthat.Hethought,George
couldntpossiblydothat.
So,Imsittingathomeonemorning.Thiswasabigturningpointinmylife,itreallywas.Itwas
about8:30inthemorningandIgetthisphonecall,andthisishowHelferwas(inaverybusiness
likevoice),Mr.Roberts,whatareyoudoingrightnow.Ireplied,Imhavinganunemployedcupof
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coffee.Helfersaid,howlongwouldittakeyoutogetinyourcarwithyourbasstrombone,yourbag
ofmutes,andeverythingelsethatyoucarryandgetdowntoRadioRecordersAnnex?Howlongwill
ittakeyoutogetdownhere?Isaid,about40minutes.Helfersaid,getallyourstuff,putitinthecar
andbeatRadioRecordersin40minutes.Buzzzzzz.Andhehungthephoneup.Ithought,good
Lord.IranandgotmystuffandputitinthecarandIwastherein30minutes!
IwalkedinthedoorandtherestheLAPhilharmonicsittingthere.Thebasstrombonisthadgotten
upandwalkedoutonHelferandIgorStravinsky.Thisisinsanity,youjustdontdothat!Someofthe
playersconvincedHelfertotrythenewkid(me).Anyway,Iwastold,getbackthere,sitdown,and
play.Iwentback,lookedatwhatIhadtoplayandIthought,well,allIcandoislookatthepartand
countlikeheck.Ihadtoplayasolowiththeharp,whichwasallthewayacrosstheroom.Ialready
knewthatthesounddelaywasgoingtobeasonofagunbutStravinskybegantoconductandwe
gotalittlewayinandhestoppedandsaid,he(George)isrightandyourewrong(harpist)play
withhim!Wemadethedatethat(snapsfingers)fast.
Whenthedatewasovereverybodywassaying,George,great!Waytogo!Helferwasjustfrowning,
furious,sittingagainstthewall.Everybodythoughtitwasjustfabulous,whatIhaddoneandIhad
justsavedBobbyHelferfromaguywalkingoutononeofhiscallswithIgorStravinsky.That,Ill
neverforget.Itdidntreallyhitmebecauseithappenedsofast.IfIhadknownwhatIwaswalking
into,Imightnothavebeenabletopullitoff.Onthewayhome,IstartedthinkingaboutHelfer,Igor
Stravinsky,andthemusicbusinessandIstartedshakinginthecar.Itreallywouldhaveblownmeif
IhadknownwhatIwaswalkinginto.IworkedforBobbyHelferfromthatdayforward.Theother
guydidnt.Youdontgetupandwalkout,nomatterhowgoodyouthinkyouare.Theresalways
somebodyaroundthecornerwaiting.
SmileandbeahappyindividualthatsthewayIfeelaboutit.Iamsothankfulforthatopportunity
becausewhatactuallyhappenedwasmeplayingthatthingwithBobKraftandIgorStravinsky(Kraft
wastheconductor)wasthatitopeneduptelevision,motionpictures,andeverythingelseformein
LA.
IwentoutlookingforajobonedayandpassedbyCapitolRecords.Well,LeeGillettewasthebiggest
A&RmanatCapitolatthetime.HeusedtocomeoutandrecordKentonhewasthemoney
behindtheKentonrecordings.Leeusedtocomeoutandrecordusontheroadandhelikedme.He
usedtocomeupandtalktomeduringbreaksbecausehelikedbasstrombone,helikedthesound.If
youthinkaboutit,anA&Rmanisalwayslookingfornewsounds.Anyway,Ihadalwaysthought
LeewasanEngineerbecausehewasalwayssittingatthecontrols,playingwithknobs.
So,IwentintoCapitoltoseeLee.A&Rman?WhatsanA&Rman?Iwasjustgoingtoseemy
friendLee,theEngineer.IaskedthereceptionistifIcouldseeLeeGilletteandshesaid,letmecall
Mr.Gillettesofficeandseeifheisavailable.Ithought,Mr.Gillette?Office?Whatsthisallabout?The
receptionistsentmeuptoseeLeeandIwaspetrified.IthoughtLeewouldjustbeinabackroom
fiddlingwithelectronics.So,IstartedwalkingtowardLeesofficeandwhenIgotthere,thedoorwas
openandGillettewassittingthere,talkingwithsomeguyathisdesk.IwassoscaredthatI
continuedwalkingrightonby.Well,hesawmewalkbyandhegotupandsaid,George,myofficeis
backhere.Whatareyoudoingbackhere?Isaid,well,SueishavingababyandIdidntwanttobe
ontheroadwiththebandwithababyontheway,soIcamehometoseeifIcouldmakeitinLA.
Leesaid,comein,IvegotsomebodyIwantyoutomeet:Nelson(Riddle),thisisGeorgeRoberts.We
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satdowntotalkandbecameinseparablefriendsforamillionyears,NelsonandI.
WhatNelsonRiddleopenedupwasthesound,themelodybeingatimeplayer,amelodyplayerwas
thethingthatopenedupthemusicbusinessforbasstrombonists.Nelsonwasabigbenefactorof
ours.NelsonandItalkedforsomanyyearsthatitsridiculous,aboutthehornandthewaytowrite
forit.IrememberoncetellingNelsonthatbasstromboneisthebestmelodyhornintheworldand
hesaid,youmusthavetheheartofanelephant!IthankedNelsonforthecomplimentandrepeated
thatbasstrombonereallyisthebestmelodyhornintheworld.Abouteightyearslater,Nelsondid
TheJoyofLivingalbum.AfterwefinishedTheJoyofLivingalbum,Icouldntwaittogetuptothe
podiumwherehewasstandingandsay,Nelson,youmusthavetheheartofanelephant!
ThepersonalfriendshipofNelsonRiddleandIwasalong,longthing.Thisrelationshipwasoneofthe
mostimportantthingsthatcouldhavehappenedforallofusbasstromboneplayersbecausewhenI
gotouttoLAtherewereonlytwoorthreeguysandsomedoublerswhojustplayedanoteevery
onceinawhile.Notreallybasstromboneplayers.Allofasudden,thingsstartedchanging.Like,
somebodywouldwritesomethingreallyhardforbasstrombone,whichmeanttheyweregoingto
havetohireabasstromboneplayer,notjustadoubler.Thiscausedthebusinesstoreallygrowfor
us.ThatswhatIworkedtowardforalongtime.

Thisenhancedvisibilityforthebasstrombonegeneratedincreasedinterestamong
composersandarrangers,oncetheyunderstoodthecapabilitiesoftheinstrument.
Absolutely!Nelson,blesshisheart,outofthatmeetingwithGilletteandthethingwithHelferand
Stravinskyandallthatkindofstuffifyouputallofthatstufftogether,thereswhereyour
commercialbusinesscamefromforallofusbasstromboneplayers.Fromonetothousands!

Inanexcerptfromthebook,SeptemberintheRain:TheLifeofNelsonRiddle,itis
stated,Almostimmediately,NelsonbegantomakeuseofRobertsuniquesoundon
NatColerecordingdates.AsPaulTannerobserved,Georgeplayeddelicatelyand
prettyonaclumsyinstrument,hereallyopenedupthebasstrombonebusiness.
NelsonRiddlehadthegutstoexposethehorn.Thebasstrombonehadtobeexposedintheright
way.Ifitwasntexposed,yourenotgoingtogetcalled.Ifnobodyknowswhatitdoes,then,where
areyou?
Nelsonhadanidentity,avoice.Nobodyintheworldwrotebeautifully,likeNelsonRiddledid,forbass
trombone,flute,harmonmutetrumpet,bigstringsandstufflikethat.And,thentherewashis
melodicbrilliance.Whenyouhearoneofthebasstrombonethingsorbasstrombonewiththat
harmonmuteandflute,peopleimmediatelyrecognizethatasNelsonRiddle.

George,couldwediscussthetrombonesthatyouhaveplayedwhathornyoustarted
on,whatyouhaveplayed,andwhatyouareplayingnow?
Well,whenIfirststarted,Iplayeda70HConnwiththetuningintheslide.ImnotTommyDorsey,
soIdontneedafeatherlightslide.Ifoundthat,sometimes,theweightactuallyhelpedme.In
thosedays,therewereonlytwoprohornsavailableforbasstromboneplayers:BachandConn.I
startedworkingwithdifferentcompanies.Thesedays,everycompanymakesaprettydarnedgood
basstrombone.
ItwasntmyegotismthatcausedtheRobertsModelOlds.ThatwasRegOlds.Thereasonhewanted
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mynameonthehornwasthatOldshadareputation,atthetime,foronlybuildingthestudent
modelAmbassador.Regfeltthatifanameplayerwouldhelphimbuildabasstrombone,thathe
couldbreakintotheproline.ZigKanstulwasthereandwebuiltaprototype,withacopyoftheold
ConnSchmidtbell,acopiedRemingtonleadpipe,andvariousothercopiedparts.
EverytimeIparticipatedindevelopinganewhorn,onethingthatstayedwithmewastheleadpipe.
MyleadpipewasntthatdifferentbutIdidntwanttofeelalienatedwithanewleadpipe.Idontlike
ultradarksounds.Insymphonyorchestras,forexample,conductorswantadark,heavysound.
Okay,then,thatswhatyouhavetodo.Ichosemoreofacommercialsound.Lighter,singingthat
typeofathing.
ZigKanstulcalledmeupalongtimeagoandsaid,George,IvegotafactoryinAnaheim.Immaking
basstrombonesandIdlovetohaveyoucomeoutandlookatthem.Ifinallywentoutonedayand
walkedthroughthebuilding,askingifZigwasthere.Zigsawmeandsaid,George,waitaminute!He
ranacrossthefactorytoacardtablewheretherewasabasstrombonebellsittingonastandanda
slidelyingthere.Heputthembothtogether,broughtthemoverandaskedifIhadbroughtmy
mouthpiece.IplayeditandlookedatZigandsaid,at76,Ineedanewhornlikeaholeinthehead
butImgoingtotakeit!ThatsjustwhatItoldhimhesanoldfriendfromyearsago.
TheKanstulqualitycontrolisgreat.IfIcouldsayanythingtobasstromboneplayers,theyshouldtry
hishornshesgotsingletriggersanddoubletriggersandeverythinglikethat.Allbasstrombones
Conn,Bach,Holton,Kanstul,Olds,everybodymakesbasstrombones.Weonlyhadtwoatthe
beginning.ThatallchangedandIthinkitsbecauseofsongsandsoundandthatspartofwhat
createdthebusinessforbasstromboneplayers.

TheKanstulyouplayisntitmoreorlessa60Hclone?
Itlooksliketheold70HbutIthinkreallydowndeepitsmoreofasingletrigger62H.Itlookslike
that,witha9.5inchbell,thetuningisinthetopslidetube(youdontevenknowitsthere),thebell
isseamlesswithnounnecessarylockingmechanismsanditisveryvibrant.Whenyoupickthehorn
upandplay,youllfindoutrealfast.TheneatthingforalltheguysaroundhereisthatZigisjustup
inAnaheim.Nobodyknewthatbeforeandtheyshouldknowaboutitbecausehesgotagreat
product.
IhaventplayedahornthatplaysliketheKanstulhornforyearsandtheyareexcellent,excellent
horns.ImthrowingthatinbecauseZigwaitednearlytwoyearsformetocomeoutandsayhello
andIthoughtthatwasprettynice.
IremembermybuddywiththeLAPhilharmonic,JeffReynolds,cameuptomeonceandsaid,you
know,yourethereasonIplaybasstrombone.Afewyearslater,allthesedoubletriggerswereflying
aroundandIveneverplayedadoubletriggerinmylife.Ididthewholebusiness,everythingthat
Iveeverplayedonasingletriggerbasstrombone.Jeffcameuptomeonedayafterarealtough
sessionandhesaid,yousonofagun!Youknewallthistimethatthedoubletriggerdidntmeana
darnedthing.Jeffsaid,yourestillplayingthesingletrigger,arentyou?Isaid,yeah,whenyouplaya
concertwiththePhilharmonicwhichhorndoyouplay?Andhesaid,thesingletriggerBach.Isaid,
thatswhatIthought!
Theresalotofopiniononthedifferentstylesofhornsthatcompaniesmake.Itsimportantthatthey
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allmakehornsforus.Foryou,me,Jeff.Wehavemoreofachoicethanoneortwohorns.
Everybodyelsedoes,whynotbasstrombone?

George,knowthatyoufavorthesingletriggerbasstromboneandhaveworkedyour
entirecareeronone.Whatareyourthoughtsaboutdoublevalveandsinglevalvebass
trombones?
Well,Imalittleprejudicedthatway.SingletriggersarelightandImanoldman!WhenIpickupa
doubletrigger,Ifalloveronmyside.ImkiddingbutIjustlikethesingletriggeritslight,more
resonant.Whensomebodyhandsmeadoubletrigger,Igetabouthalfwaythroughthematerialand
Ihavetoputthehorndownandshakemyhandtogetthebloodbackintoit.Doublevalvesarejust
tooheavy.
Ihavealwaysthought,whatintheheckisthepointofdoingthis?WhydontIplayasingletrigger
hornlikeIvealwaysplayedandnotbotherwiththis?Well,youknow,Igetcrampsfromtheweight
ofthedoubletriggeranditdrivesmecrazy.Ijustdidntwanttobotherworryingaboutaphysical
thingwithmyhandbecauseImnotKingKong,youknow!

YoujustsoundlikeKingKong!
Nottheoriginal,maybethesecondonethanksalot!Mainlywiththedoubletrigger,itstheweight.
Ilikeahornthatprojects.Heavy,heavyhornsaredark.Tome,theirsoundgoessidewaysandI
wantmysoundtogostraightahead.MynewKanstulisverylightandresponsive.Itreallyresonates.
MarkLawrence,principaltrombonistoftheSanFranciscoSymphony,cameouttoaBonesWest
rehearsalandtheguysaskedmetoplaysomethingwiththegroupafterMarksclinicwasfinished.
So,Iplayedandhecameupafterwardandaskedtotrymyhorn.Markpickeditupandplayeditand
remarked,Icouldplaythisanywhere.Evidently,heorderedone,too.Itsamatterofopinion,you
know,whetheryoulikedarksoundsorlightsoundsorwhatsoundyourebeingpaidtoproduce.
Sometimes,youhavetoaccommodate.Ifyouknowhowtoaccommodateallofthevarious
situations,youreinbusiness.

Whataboutmouthpieces,George?
IhaveamouthpiecethatBurtHerrickmadeformeyearsandyearsago.Iplayeda1.5GBachfor
yearsandBurtmademeanoversized1.5GthatIjustloved.IplayedtheHerrickforalongtime,
thenwentwithConnforawhile.ConnmadeacopyofBurtsoversized1.5G,whichIliked.Ithought
thatwasjustgreat.
IamnowplayingaKanstulGR.ThatisbasicallythesameConnmouthpiece,whichisbasicallythe
oversized1.5GthatIplayedforsomanyyears.So,itgoesallthewayback,nothingdramatically
different.Zigsaid,Ivecopiedeverythingelseforyou,soImightaswellmakethemouthpiece,too!I
likeiteverybitaswellaswhatIhadbeenplayingbefore.Ilikeeverything,themouthpiece,the
horntheyworkjustgreatforme.

Youhavediscussedtheimportanceoflongtonesandlipslursinyourdevelopmental
years.Whatsortofwarmuproutinedoyouusetogetreadyforaperformance?
Longtones,longtones,longtones!Someslurs.Buteverythingisplayedrealsoft.Idontstartoffby
blowingrealloud.IknowsomepeopledobutIdont.LloydUlyate,mydearestfriend(whopassed
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awayjustrecently)andIwereplayingadate.Anyway,whenitcametimetowarmup,Istartedmy
soft,longtonesandnoticedthatLloydwasplayingevensofterandlonger.Daaaahhhh,daaaahhhh,
youknow.Overontheothersideoftheroom,wasDickNash,andhewasplaying,like,doodleoodle
dee.Allovertheupperstratosphere.Thatwashiswarmup!Lloydlookedatmeandsaid,George,
youknowthatyouandIhavetogetanewwarmup.Dicksonlybeenherefiveminutesandhes
alreadyearnedhispayforthenight.Wehaventdoneanything!Thatwasreallyveryfunny.Lloyd
wassuchadearfriendofmine.
Thereagain:asoundplayer.DickNash:soundplayer.EddieCusby:soundplayer.DickNole:sound
player.Keepgoingdowntheline:sound,sound,sound.Howdoyougetthat?Byplayinglongtones
andslurs!Thatisntgoingtochangeever,Idontthink.
Themanufacturersareallmakinggreathornsnowtheyallare.DougYeo,withtheBoston
Symphony,playsaYamahaandsoundsfabulous.IcalledDougwhenheacceptedthatjobtotell
himhowpleasedIwasthatoneoftheyoungguyshadtakenoveraJohnCoffeetradition.Thatone
oftheyoungplayerstookoveroneoftheoldtimers,strongholdchairs.ThatDougwouldhavea
familyandalife,likeeverynormalhumanbeingcouldhave.IamreallyproudofDougforgettingin
thereanddoingthat.
DougandIareverydearfriends.IjustsawhiminIthacaatthefestival.Zighadaskedmetogoto
theITFandjustsitattheKanstultable.OneoftheguysaskedDougtotrytheKanstulbass
trombone.So,DougcameupandstartedplayingarealprettysongandIsaid,givemethehorn!You
knowjustkidding!
Alotoftheplayingonasingletriggerhornisphysical.ThehornislightandIcanlastallnight!Idoa
thingdownhere,attheCoronadoFerryLanding,whereIplayfortwostraighthours.IfIwere
playingadoubletriggerhorn,Icouldntlastthetwohours.Myhandwouldneverlast.Howabouta
sixhourdate,thatsthesamething.Ijustneverplayedadoubletriggerbasstrombone,mainly
becauseithurtmyhandandIdidntneedit.ThatsbasicallywhyIdidntdothat
Ithinktheyrewritingalotmorefordoubletriggerbasstrombone,whateverthatmeans.Theycan
writemorenotes,differentcombinationsofpositionsandthingslikethiswithvalvesandsuch.What
theheckdoesthatmean?Aretheygoingtowritemoremechanicallynowthantheywerebefore?

Ithinkthatstrue.WhatIveseenhappeningisthatcomposersandarrangersare
attemptingtomakethemusicmeetthetechnicalcapabilitiesoftheinstrumentandit
simplymeansthattheyarepluggingmore(low)Bnaturalsintothemusic.
Well,thatsright.Istillthinkthatweshouldplacemoreemphasisonthemusicandlessontechnical
andmechanicalprocesses.

George,youoncementionedtometheimportanceofplacingpedaltonesintoatune
suchthattheyaremusicallytastefulandnotinamannerthatblowseveryoneshair
off.
WhenIfirststartedattendingtheITAs,yearsandyearsago,IplayedSendintheClowns,whichis
aSinatrathing.Afterplayingthisverynice,softpiece,theverylastnoteofthewholepieceisanEb
pedaltone.Iplayeditalmostlikeabreath.Justextremelysoftwithadecrescendo,untilitsimply
disappeared.IfyouplaythatEbloud,youjustdestroythewholetunethatyouplayed!Ifyouplayan
Ebpedaltonelikevelvet,theylleatyoualive!Andtheywill!
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Youknow,whenyoungstersseeapedaltonewrittenonthepage,theyjusthitit,likeBAM!Oneof
themostimportantthingsthatIcouldsaytokidsistobeabsolutemastersofsimplicity.Sound.
Time.Inception.Allthesimplethings.Dothesimplethingsreallyjustfabulousyoullhave95%of
thebusiness,ifyoudo!Theresonly5%ofthisbusinessthatsstarkterror.Youneverknowwhen
thatscomingbutifyoureamasterofsimplicity,youwilldojustfine.IfyoulistentoTVandmotion
picturesyoucanplaythatthemusicisnotallthathard!Youhavetohaveagreatsound.
Masterofsimplicity,greatsoundyouveheardthesetrumpetplayerssuchasMalcomMcNabbplay
somethinginthemiddleofanAlfredNewmanpiecedaahhh,deehhh,daahhh(largeintervals).Real
soft.Notaclam.Wherearethosetrumpetplayerstoday?Well,thereareveryfewanditsjustlike
withtrombonistsmastersofsimplicitywhohavegreatsoundandcancontroltheirinstruments.I
thinkthatreallyistrue.

Youmentionedthatonessoundisareflectionoftheirpersonalitywhenyouplaya
beautifulballad,whatgoesthroughyourmind?Howdoyouapproachthetune?
ThefirstthingIthinkofwhenIplayabeautifulballadisthatIwantmywife,Suzanne,sittingabout
tenfeetinfrontofme.IfIplayherabeautiful,softballadandshecloseshereyeswhileImplaying,
thenIjustwon.Ifshedoesntclosehereyes,Imnotsureifshelikedit,ornot.Thatappliesto
anyonewhoslisteningtoyou.Iwanttohavealoveaffairwiththehorn.LikeSinatraIwantto
playlikeFranksang.

Whatothervocalistsdoyouemulateinyourplaying?
TonyBennett.SarahVaughn,oh,man!Shewasagoodfriendofmine,blessherheart.NatCole.He
wasabsolutelymagnificent!TheywerewonderfulvocalistsbutthekeyguyswereFrankandTony.If
youcanplaylikethosetwoguys,withagreatsound,withtheirconceptionofplayingthesong,youd
beaheckofatromboneplayer.Youreallywould!Putsomeheadphonesonandreallygetinto
listeningtothegoodvocalistssingandthewaytheyphrase.
Howdotheygettheirvibrato?Youcanactuallytakeyourhandslideand,withhardlyanymotion,
replicatethetrulygreatvocalists,completelyincharacter.Youlistentoallthatstuffandrealizethat
theirvibratoisnotdistortedlikeWAH,WAH,WAH,WAH,WAHorultrafastlikebababababa.Its
verysubtle,smooth,andincharacter.Itaddsbutdoesnotdetractfromthesong.
IvegotfourCDsfromIrvKratka(MusicMinusOne).Theyhaveabout100FrankSinatra
backgroundswithstrings.Althoughtheyarecanned,youstillgetthesamefeelingasifthe
performancewerereallylive.ThatswhatIplayhere,attheCoronadoFerryLanding.Youcouldplay
forfourhoursfromthoseCDs.TheseCDsaregoodenoughthatyoustillgetthesamefeelingof
playingwithlivebackground.
IfalittlekidfromDesMoines,IowawenthomeonenightandplayedHeresThatRainyDaythat
Sinatradidandhegoesintohisbedroom,takeshishornout,putsthatCDonhisparentssittingin
anotherpartofthehousearegoingtogostraightthroughtheceiling.Thatshowhesgoingtolearn
howtobewhatweretalkingabout.Thatsonlyonemeanstodoit.Thisway,abasstrombone
playercanbeselfcontained.
HowamIgoingtosurviveinthisindustrywithalloftheelectronicstakingoverthefield?Ithought,
ifyoucansingtowhatIrvsgot,youcanplaytoit.Thatsmylibraryfordownhere.Everybodyloves
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thisstuffbecausetheyveallhearditandtheyknowwhereitcomesfrom.Justsitdownandpound
outsomeleadsheets.

George,ifyouwouldtellusalittlebitaboutyourtimeintheNavy?
Well,Illtellyou,theNavywasinteresting.IwenttobootcampatGreatLakesatage17.One
morningwegotupandthewindwasabsolutelyhowlingandweweregoingouttoplayforcolorsat6
am.Sowemarchedoutthereandmyhandswerejustfreezingtodeath.Idroppedmyslideandthe
bandmarchedoverit!TheChiefsawthisandsaid,Roberts,comeintomyofficeassoonasyou
finish.Hesaid,Imgivingyouanewhornandoiltoputontheslide,aplasticmouthpiece,and
gloves.Youregoingtoplaycolorseverymorningfortherestofyourlife!
ItookallthestepsatGreatLakesinordertogetintotheNavymusicprogramwhichIthought
wouldbeagoodthingtodo.IhadtowaitformyorderstocomebecauseIwasinfortwoyears.The
ChiefcalledmeinandsaidthatmyorderswereinbutifIacceptedthem,Iwouldhavetocommitfor
anadditionalyear.Well,Iwantedtogetout,soIcouldgoontheroadwithabignameband.The
nextmorning,IwasinthedraftforGuam,soIspenttwoyearsonGuam!Ihadmymothersendmy
old,beatupvalvetromboneandIputtogetheralittlebandthatplayedattheOfficersClubon
Guam.Youknow,weplantedcoconuttreesandstufflikethat
WhenIgotoutandreturnedtoDesMoines,andwentstraightouttoaconservatoryontheGIBill,
tolearnmoreaboutmusicandthemusicbusiness.Iwantedtolearnfaster,ratherthanspending
anotherfourorfiveyearslearningthisstuffincollege,whichissometimesokayandsometimesnot.
Attheconservatory,ImetaguywhogotmemyfirstpayingjobandIwasactuallymakingmoney
playingthetrombone.Ithought,hey,thisisreallygreat!
Afterthisjob,IreturnedtoDesMoinesandgotthecalltoplayinMilwaukee.Allthejobsthatyouget
inthemusicbusinessarebasicallyfromfriendsmyfriendfromtheconservatorygotmethejobin
Milwaukee.FromMilwaukee,IgottheofferfromKrupa.WhenKrupasbandbrokeupinChicago,I
wenttoReno.AfterayearinRenoplayingshowbands,IgotthecallfromKentontoseeifIwould
comeouttoLA.BobFitzpatrickandMelBurnewerethetwofriendswhogotmeintothatband.They
knewthatIcouldplaybecausetheyknewmewhenIwaswithKrupaandUrbie.Wedhangoutonce
inawhile.Itsyourfriendswhowillgetyouallofyourjobs.

Whattypeofthingdoyouliketodoawayfromthehorn?Anyhobbies?
Well,Ilovephotography!Ihaventreallyhadtimetogettotallyinvolvedwithitverymuchanymore
but,boy,Ireallylovephotographyitsagreatartform.WhatIreallylikeisblackandwhite
photography.Youcanbesoexpressiveintheblackandwhitemedium.IfIdidnthavethistrombone
thing,Idprobablyfindsomewaytobeinvolvedwithphotography,youknow,becauseitprovidesan
opportunityforselfexpression.Youcanenlargeanegativeandgeteightorninedifferentpictures
fromthatblowup,especiallyifyouhavegoodnegatives.
ItwasUrbiewhogotmestartedonphotography.ThenhewentwithWoodyHermansbandyears
agoandlefttheband.Isaid,Urbie,whattheheckamIgoingtodowithallofthisphotoequipment
yousoldme!Weusedtomesswithourphotoequipmentatnightontheroad.Thatwasalotoffun!

George,youmentioned,thatasyouhavematured,ithasbecomemoredifficultto
holdupheavyhorns.Arethereanyotheradjustmentsthatyouhavemadeoverthe
years,inordertokeepplaying?
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Icantellyourightnowthat,anyonewhoishonestwiththemselves,knowstheirownstrengthsand
weaknessesbetterthananybodyinthewholeworld.Iknowmyweaknessesbetterthananybody.
YouknowthatIhavebeenplayingforthepasttenyearsdownhereinCoronadoplayingbeautiful
ballads.PlayinglongtonesandslursthatisthewayIamgoingtoleavethebusiness.ItsthewayI
cameintothebusiness.
Toplayfortwostraighthours,playingeverytuneisnotthateasy.Ifeelthatnow,physically.ButI
knowhowtolieaboutit!Andcheat.Andconnive.Playinginthestafffortwostraighthoursthats
arealworkout!Illsay,ohlook,herecomesanFabovethestaffandIjustplaybaaahhh,you
know.IdidnthavetoplaythathighFitbecomesanFinthestaff!

Whatadvicedoyouhaveforaspiringyourtrombonistswhowanttobreakintothe
business?
Trytogetthegreatestsoundthatyoucanandlearnhowtoplaytunes.Youwillknowhowwellyou
aredoing.Remember,Isaidthatweareallthemastersofourownstrengthsandweaknesses?Youll
knowifyouareplayingitrightorwrong.Thatswhereyouaregoingtostartaskingsomany
questions.Ithinktheideaofbeingasoundplayerandasongplayeristhegreatestwaytobegin.

UponshowingGeorgeaphotoofBillWatrous,henoticedthatBillwascarryinga
plasticgarbagebag.
Youknow,Iprobablyshouldntdothisbutyouseethatplasticgarbagebag?WatrousandIusedto
playalotofdatesandwesatnexttoeachother.Onenight,IsawapieceofpaperonthefloorandI
threwitunderhischair.Hewouldwaitforacoupleoftakes,andthrowtwopiecesundermychair.
Thiswentonandonuntiltherewasthisgreatmoundofgarbagebeingthrownbackandforthunder
ourchairs!Well,thecontractorisnotveryhappyandsays,youguysaregoingtostayhereuntilthat
messiscleanedup!Notsmarttodobutwevebeendoingthatforyears.Youknow,Watrous,
MarcellusandIarethebestgarbageplayersinthewholeworld!Oh,wedoterriblethingstoeach
other.Wereallydo!

George,youhaveabasstrombonemethodthatwasputoutseveralyearsago.What
skillsshouldyoungbasstrombonistsbefocusingon?(LetsPlayBassTrombone)
ThatsthebookthatPaulTannerandIdidtogether.Thebookstartsoffassimpleaspossiblebut
graduallygetsmoreinvolved.Thereagain,isthatthingaboutlongtonesandslurs.Youcanseethat
developingfromthefirstpagesofthebook,wheretheresnothingbutlongtones:wholenotes,half
notes,quarternotes,eighthnotes.Playslowlyandpreciselywithgreataccuracyandfocusedsound.
Thisway,yougetagreatsoundbeforemovingontoanythingelse.
ThereisoneexerciseinthebackofthebookthatcamefromFrankComstocksPatternalbum.Itis
graduateddowninhalfstepsinmybook.ThatwasaspeciallickthatIwantedtoincludeinthebook
adrillthatIhaveusedformyownplaying.

HowdidyoutuneyourhornforrecordingssuchasMeetMr.RobertsandBottoms
Up?
IloveplayinginBb/Fbecausethatseasytotuneandleavesetupthatway.Ihadahabit,forfifty
ears,ofscanningachartandlookingahead.IfIsawawideopenlowBnaturalsittingthere,awhole
note,thenIwouldpulltoE.IfIhadtoplayitinE,thenIwoulddoso.IlookedforBnaturals.Ifit
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wasineighthnotes,Iwouldlipitdownbecauseyoullfeelthenotebutyouwonthearit.Youknow,
thatsreallytrueyoudidntreallyhearthatBbutyoufeltit.ThatsthewayIplayedforfiftyyears.
IcouldalwayscatchthelowCoutinflatseven.

WhatareyourthoughtsaboutplayingwithStanKentonfrom1951to1953?
Youknow,whenIwasakid,thetwobandsIwantedtoplaywithwereWoodyHermanandStan
Kenton.Ultimately,IgotwithKentonandKrupa.Kentonwasalwaysathrillbecausethatfirst
ensemblesoundwasalwayssopowerfulitcouldreallyjustknockyouout!Youdontforgetthat
itsasoundyouwanttobearoundallyourlife.MydreambandswereWoodyHermanandKenton.
So,IwasfortunatetogetwithKrupaandKenton.

Whodoyouliketolistento?
IliketoputonthephonesandlistentoalotoftheDonCosta/RiddlestuffthattheydidforSinatra
andlistentothebackgroundsandthewaytheyinterpretedthings.Thatsbeenmywholeactforso
longandIlovetodothatwithphonesandgetrightinsidetheorchestra.Isitthereandthinkabout
thesongandemulatethevoice.Youcanevenworkyourslidehand,togettherightfeeland
especiallythevibrato.Ihavesomeverystrong,intimatememoriesofplayingthismusicandIcan
reallygetagoodfeelingfromtheserecordings.

Theresasortofescalationintrombonesizegoingontheykeepgettingbiggerand
bigger.Whatareyourthoughtsaboutthebiggerisbetterargument?
Timeshavechanged.Myownfeelingisthatbasstromboneisstilljustatromboneanditshould
soundlikeatrombone.Itshouldntsoundlikeabaritoneoratuba.Itshouldbeatrombone.That
meansthatyoushouldbeabletosingandwhacknotesjustlikeatenortrombone.Thefirstorderis
thatbasstromboneshouldstillhaveatrombonesoundtome,thatstheimportantthing.Ifyou
gettoodarkortoobig,youcanonlyplaywithcertaingroups.

Moststudentsinconservatoriesandschoolsofmusicareintentionallydirectedtoward
thatbig,darkorchestralsound.Givenyourexperiencewithcommercialmusic,isthere
adangerinthis?
Ithinkthattheylltakecareofbusiness.Theywillhearthingsthattheyreallylikeandwillneedto
worktowardthattypeofsound,tograbholdofit.Iftheyhearonethingandonethingonly,suchas
legitimatesymphonymusic,thenthatswhattheyllendupplaying.Now,youlistentoDougYeo,
whocaninstantlytransitionfromsymphonyplayingtoabigbandstylejustaseasilyasanything.
Youshouldneversay,IdontwanttoplaythisstylebecausethatstheonlythingthatIlike.You
needtoplayeverything.Everything.Or,youwontwork!

Ofallthesoundtracksonwhichyouveplayed,whatisyourfavorite?
IjustgotasheettheotherdaythatsaidIhadplayedonover6000recordingsover50years.Im
veryproudofthat!Youknow,JohnWilliamsisaverydearfriendusedtobeatromboneplayer.Do
yourememberthealbumBottomsUp?Well,JohnWilliamswasthepianoplayeronthatalbum.Yes,
Johnwroteallthearrangements,too.
Jaws.ThemovieJawsismyfavorite.Asthemoviestarts,allyouseeistheoceanandyouhearsome
verysoft,subtlelongtones.Very,verysoft.Youkindoffeel,inyourchair,thatsomethingisaboutto
happen.Youalmostwanttoturnaroundtoseeifsomethingissneakinguponyou,itissoverysoft.
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Ofcourse,Iplayedtheviolentsharkscenes,too,butthosesoftlongtones,earlyonthemoviewere
themostdramatic.IhaveneverforgottenthefeelingIgotfromplayingonthatsoundtrack.Ijust
lovedit.IlikealloftheJawspictures,exceptwhenthesharkgotupondeckoftheboatandstarted
eatingpeople!

Whatdoyouseeinthefutureofbigbandsandliveorchestras?Wherearethey
headed?
Idontknow.Iprayforalloftheyoungpeoplethatthebigbandswillcomebacksomedaybutitwill
havetobetheyoungpeoplewhobringthemback.Idontknowwherethatsgoingtocomefrom.
Thecollegebigbandisthesaviorforallofthekidswhowanttoplayincommercialmusic.Itsthe
onlyplacetheyhavetoplayanymore.
MyyoungfrienddownatNorthTexasStatetoldmethathecouldntgetbigbandjobsforhisbest
students,likeheusedto.Itsjustsoexpensivetoputabigbandontheroadandthereisntany
market.Hesaid,IjustdontthinkIdbedoingmystudentsanyfavorsbyputtingthemontheroad
becauseitsnotlikeitusedtobe.
Wedonthavethebignamesstandingdowninfrontofbigbandsanymore.IfyoulovedKenton,you
lovedhisband.IfyoulovedWoodyHermanorTommyDorsey,itwasthesamething.Ifyouloved
theleader,youlovedtheirband.Thoseopportunitieshaveprettymuchdriedup.Thereisntmuch
chanceofmovingfromonebandtoanotherlikethereusedtobe.Theremightbeoneopportunityin
alifetimeandyouareforcedtostaywithit.Remember,therewasatimeinmylifewhenIhadto
stopgoingoutontheroad.Peoplewanttostartfamiliesandhavenormallives

Whatareyourthoughtsaboutembouchureshifts?
Well,believeitornot,Ihaveanembouchureshift.NotalloverthemouthpiecebutIcanplaya
singleembouchuredowntoaboutaGpedaltone.FromtheGpedaltoneanddownbelow,witha
singleembouchure,Iwouldstarttodisappear.So,Ipivotoffthebottomlipandgetmoreofmytop
lipintothemouthpieceandthenIuseacrossoverthingwhereIcanplayfromEbpedaltonetoG
andamabletoplayaBbpedal(upordown),AA,AAb,andtherestofthewaydown.IfIhadntbeen
abletodothat,IcouldnothaveplayedtheFpedaltonewithHenryMancini,whenIfirstwenttoLA.
ThehighembouchurethingiswhatImtalkingabout.YoucanjustscreamMancinisaid,thats
whatIwant!
IfIhadnthadthemeansofdoingthat,withtheembouchureshift,thatwouldnthavehappened.
So,IdohaveanembouchureshiftinthepedalregisterthatIcanmanipulate.

Weallknowthatyousingthroughyourhornbutdoyousing,yourself?
WhenIwasalittlekid,IsanginthechoirandIlearnedtosingwordsandnotesandmelodies.Thats
wheremuchofthiscamefrom.Mybrotherinlaw,VernGrant,hadalittleband.Myfirsttasteof
politicscamefrommymother.MotheraskedVern,isthereanywayyoucangetlittleGeorgieinto
yourband?Vernsaid,ifGeorgecanplayasong,Illputhimin.Verngavemeasongbookandtold
metolearnthesongs.ItwasnttoohardbecauseIhadbeensingingintheChurchchoir.Shortly
afterthat,IheardaTommyDorseyalbumandthatignitedmeonplayingmelodies.

HastherebeenanypushtogetMeetMr.RobertsandBottomsUpreissued?
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Yes,evenJohnWilliamstriedtogetitdone.SonyboughttherightsfromColumbia.

Atthispoint,severalofGeorgesmanyfriendsandfansinCoronadorecognizedhim
andstoppedbytosayhello.ItwouldbeanunderstatementtosaythatGeorgehasan
adoringaudience.Infact,manyofthequestionsthatIhaveaskedcamefromOTJ
ForummembersinAustralia,Canada,Germany,GreatBritain,TheNetherlands,
Scotland,andSweden.Hehastrulyreachedaninternationalaudience.
George,whatareyourthoughtsaboutbreathsupportandbreathcontrolairflow
management?
Kidscomeuptomeallthetimeandaskthesequestions.Itellallofmykidsthatyoumustalways
takeasmuchairasyoucanyoucantexhaleandstartplaying.Otherwise,therewontbeanything
thereandyoustartshaking.Thatsthefastestwaytoexplainwhyyouneedtotakeabiggutfullof
air.Ifyoudont,everythingisgoingtoshake.Thisexplanationreallyworkswithkidsbecause,ifthey
exhalebeforeplaying,theyhavenothing.

Whatisyourfavoriteaspectofthebasstrombonewhatdoyoulikemostaboutit?
Thesound.Iusedtogetanabsolutethrillina90pieceorchestra,cominginonalowC.Youknow,
Baahhh!Justonenotetolaythefoundationfortheentireorchestra.Iwouldgetakickoutofthe
strings,complainingthattheyhadtoworktheirtailsoffandallIhadtoplaywasonenoteandgo
home!

Whichplayersovertheyearsimpressedyoumostwiththeirtalentandworkethic?
JoeHoward,LloydUlyate,DickNash,EddieCusby,DickNoel,IcangoondownthelineofguysthatI
workedwithwhenIfirstcameouttoLA.Theywerethegreatestguysonearththeytaughtme
howtoplaythebesttromboneplayersyouveeverheardinyourlifebutnobodyseverheardof
them.Theyweretheplayersinmotionpictures,television,radioalltherecordings.

Fromwhomdidyoulearnthemostaboutcommercialplayingandthecommercial
musicindustry?
Well,itsthatsamegroupofpeopleIjustmentioned.WhenIfirstcameouttoLA,Irealizedthat
everynoteIplayedwasnotgoingtobeasolo.Ihadtobeabletobendbecause,whenyouplaya
dateandhavefourtrombones,theyregoingtorotatetheleadpartsamongstthemselves.Ihadto
beabletobendaseachofthoseguystooktheleadpart,tosupportthedifferentwaythateachone
ofthemplayed.Thatskeyforthebottomofthetrombonesection,forthebottomoftheorchestra.I
hadtobetheabsoluteepitomeofpitch,tobethefoundationfortheorchestraandtoflowwiththe
shiftinleadplayers.Whentheleadplayerchanged,Idgorightalongwithhim.

Whatmajorchangeshaveyounoticedinbigbandsandcommercialmusicfromwhen
youstartedtowherewearetoday?
ImissthefeelingofthebigbandandthecamaraderieIhadwiththeplayersandpersonalities.The
incrediblevocalists.Theresnothinglikestandinginfrontofabigband.Wheretheheckcanyougoto
playinfrontofabigband?Kidsthesedaysjustdonthaveanywheretolearnandthereisnotreally
aviablewaytomakealivingplayingthattypeofmusic.Itspatheticthatsuchalargepartofour
culturehassimplydisappeared.
WhatImissmostislivemusicandtheopportunitytosharemusicwithlargegroupsofpeople.
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14/12/2014

InterviewwithGeorgeRoberts

Peopleusedtocomeouttodanceandreallymadelivemusicapartoftheirlives.

Georgesfinalthoughts
Iloveallofyoutromboneplayersandwishyouthebestofluck.Therearemanywaystoapproach
playingthetromboneandIhavetoldyoumywaythathasbeenprettysuccessful.Putyourselfinto
thisandmakesomebeautifulmusic.Themoreofyourselfthatyoudedicatetomakingbeautiful
music,thebetteryouwillplayandthemoreenjoymentyouwillgetoutofit.
Besidesmyfamily,trombonehasbeenthebiggestthingformesincetheageoftwelve.Singwith
yourhornandmakebeautifulmusic.Foryourselfandforothers.Iloveallofyoukidsandjustpray
thattherewillstillbeamusicbusinessforyou!

Thankyousomuch,George,fortakingthetimeawayfromyourbusyscheduleto
spendsometimewithus!Ithasbeenatruehonorformetoseeyouagainandto
spendthistimewithyou.TheOnlineTromboneJournalreadershipismost
appreciativeofthisopportunitytoreadyourthoughtsandgettoknowyoubetter.
PaulHillisaseniorU.S.NavalOfficerandbasstrombonefanaticwhohasbeenplayingsince1969.Hefirst
metGeorgeRobertsin1976,asamemberoftheNationalHighSchoolHonorsBandwhereGeorgewasthe
featuredguestartist.PaulcurrentlyrunstheNavalROTCUnitatTheUniversityofArizonaandresideswithhis
familyinTucson.
ArticlesbyPaulHill

OtherInterviewArticles

19962013Contact

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