HANSARD180320051940s1940May19408May1940CommonsSittingCLASSI.

CONDUCTOFTHEWAR.
HCDeb08May1940vol360cc1251366
Motionmade,andQuestionproposed,"ThatthisHousedonowadjourn."[CaptainMargesson.]
4.3p.m.
Mr.HerbertMorrison(Hackney,South)Ihavethehonourtoopentheseconddayofwhatmustbeanexceptionally
graveandimportantDebate,andIamsurethateveryMemberoftheHousewholistenedtotheDebateyesterdaywas
impressedwiththegravityoftheissueswhichwearenowdebating.IftheOppositionfeelthattheymustbesternly
criticalinthisDebateaboutthehandlingofeventsandofpolicies,ifwefeelthatinthecourseofthesecriticismswe
mustrefertopersonsandindicatewhatwethinkoftheircapacityorotherwisefortheconductofthewar,Iaskthe
Housetobelieve,andIhopeIamnotdeceivingmyselfwhenIsay,thatIthinkthatnoneofusareactuatedbynarrow
partisanorpersonalconsiderations,oneithersideoftheHouse.Weallrealisethattheseissuesandtheoutcomeofthis
wararefartooseriousamatter,andformyselfIwillsingthepraisesofanybodywhoisinstrumentalinthewinning
ofthiswar,becausetheissuesforthefutureofhumanityaresovital.IhopethePrimeMinisterwillbelievemethatif
hewerethemanwhoplayedthegreatpartinthewinningofthewar,IwouldsinghispraisesasIwouldthoseof
anybodyelse.ButthemoretheDebateproceeds,themoreitisclear,inmyview,thatMinistersareopento
considerablecensurefortheirconductofaffairs.
Ilistened,aswealldid.withattentiontothePrimeMinisterandtheSecretaryofStateforWaryesterday,andIam
boundtosaythatthePrimeMinisterpresentedasomewhatnewfigureintheHouseofCommons,ascomparedwith
otherspeechesofhis,andthatperhapswasthemorenoticeablewhenthePresshadgivenusanindicationthatthe
PrimeMinisterwouldbejauntyandwouldevenbeaggressiveattheexpenseofhiscritics.Thiswasnotaconfident
PrimeMinister.ItseemedtomethatthePrimeMinisterwashimselfconsciousofshortcomingsonthepartofthe
GovernmentandveryuncertainofthecasewhichhewaspresentingtotheHouseofCommons,andifthatwastrueof
him,itwasequallytrueoftheSecretaryofStateforWar.HealsofailedtopresentthepictureofaMinisterwhowas
confidentabouthisbusinessandabouthiscase.WehavetohearotherMinisterstodaytheSecretaryofStatefor
Air,who,Iunderstand,willfollowme,and,attheendoftheDebate,theFirstLordoftheAdmiralty.Perhapsitis
rightthatIshouldsaythatwedidmakearequest,throughtheusualchannels,thattheFirstLordshouldbeheard
earlierintheDebate.WetooktheviewthattheFirstLordwasthePrimeMinister'sprincipalwitness,andinthose
circumstancesitseemedtousrightthattheFirstLord,whohasifnottheentireresponsibility,atleastconsiderable
responsibility,fortheseoperations,shouldbeheardearlyon,inorderthattheHousemighthaveasmanyaspossible
ofthefactsfromthepointofviewofthosewhoweremainlyconcernedwiththeconductofthoseoperations.Butthe
righthon.GentlemanhasbeenreservedtobethelastspeakerintheDebate,whentherecanbenocommentsuponhis
evidence,anditwillthusbeperhapsthattheGovernment'sprincipalwitness,afterthePrimeMinister,hasbeen
deliberatelykeptoutofthebox,thatheisthechiefwitnesswhorefusestogointothebox,liketheproprietorofa
certainCommunistnewspaperinarecentlegalcase.
Therehasbeen,inadditiontothespeechestowhichwehavealreadylistened,anumberofdeclarationsaboutthe
Norwegianexpedition,mostofthemafterthereportwhichthePrimeMinistergavetotheHouselastweek,and
havingregardtotheproceedingsyesterdayandtheimpressionthattheymadeuponourminds,perhapsitisrelevantto
quotetheChancelloroftheExchequerinaspeechwhichwasreportedinthe"Times"oflastSaturday.Hesaid:Iam
confidentthatwhenthewholesituationislaidbeforetheimpartialpublic,itsjudgmentwillbethattheactiondecided
onwaswiselytakenonthebestadvice.Idonotthinkitcanbesaidthatinthelightofyesterday'sDebatethe
operationsinNorwayanswerthatdescription.Therighthon.GentlemantheSecretaryofStateforAir,inabroadcast,
gaveanevenbrighterpictureIbelievebeforethePrimeMinister'sstatementIthinkitwaslastSaturdayweekof
theoperationsinNorway,andinthe"Listener"of6thMayheisreportedashavingsaid:Todayourwingsare

spreadovertheArctic.Theyaresheathedinice.Tomorrowthesunofvictorywilltouchthemwithitsgolden
light"Hon.Membersunderstandablylaugh,butIamnotquotingthisforthepurposeofarousingamusement,
becauseitreallyisserious,foritisanindicationofthedelusionsfromwhichtheGovernmentaresuffering.Hewent
on:andthewingsthatflashedoverthegreatwatersoftheNorthwillbearushomewardsoncemoretothe'peace
withhonour'ofafreepeopleandthevictoryofanoblerace.Inaddition,therehavebeenothercomments,andIam
boundtosaythatIwasalittlesurprisedtonotice,inleadingarticlesinthe"Times"and"DailyTelegraph,"thevery
greatgratificationwhichwasexpressedatthefactthatthePrimeMinisterhimselfhadatleastonesupporterandone
friendinthePressoftheworldoutsideourowncountryandtheBritishCommonwealthofNations.Thiswasanorgan
oftheSpanishFalangists,anorganofGeneralFranco's,andthatorgansaidthatthestatementoftherighthon.
GentlemanthePrimeMinisterdidhonourtothetraditionalnobilitywithwhichtheillustriousnameofChamberlain
issolinkedwiththelifeoftheBritishEmpire.
Hon.MembersHear,hear.
Mr.MorrisonIamnotsurprisedthathon.Membersshouldagreewiththat.Itisquiteappropriatethatitshouldbe
acceptabletotheotherside,butIwillsaythat,inthemidstofahighlycriticalworld,Ifeelalittlehumiliatedthatthe
"Times"andthe"DailyTelegraph"shouldgooutoftheirwaytobesogratefulforthefactthatweatleasthavehada
complimenttothePrimeMinisterfromoneofthenewspaperswhicharetheorgansofGeneralFrancoandhis
movementinSpain.Inaddition,therehavebeenstatementsintheAmericanPress,andonestatementisfromthe
"NewYorkHeraldTribune,"whichhasbeen,Ithink,fairlyconsistentlyafriendoftheAlliedcause.Oneofthe
troublesaboutthisbusinessisnotonlythemilitarydamagethatithasdone,notonlythedangerstoourfuture
strategically,notonlytheseriouseconomicdamageitwillhavedonetoourcountry,directlyandindirectly,butoneof
themostterriblethingsistheblowithasbeentousintheeyesoftheneutralworldandthefactthatourprestigehas
beensobadlyletdown.The"NewYorkHeraldTribune"saysthattheBritishwereoutmanoeuvredandgottheretoo
late,justasMr.Chamberlainhasbeenconsistentlyoutmanoeuvred,andhasarrivedtoolateonsomanyother
occasions.Finally,thereistodayonthetapeaverysignificantstatementofoneofthebestknownAustralian
newspapers,the"SydneySun,"which,inaneditorialonyesterday'sDebate,says:Whathasbeenrevealedisso
shockinginitsimplicationsofdeficientpreparationsforanemergencythatMr.Chamberlain'scomplacentoutlook
evokesthegravestdoubtsthroughouttheEmpireoftheGovernment'scapacitytoputthenecessarydriveintothewar
effort.ThatisareflectionofAustralianopinionthatnoneofuscanignore,andIamafraidthatitisfairlyexpressive
ofgeneralexternalfeelingonthesituationwithwhichwearefaced.Referencehasbeenmadetothefactthatafterthe
waroftheSovietUnionagainstFinland,aftertheprovisionaleffortswhichweremadebyHisMajesty'sGovernment,
inassociationwiththeFrenchRepublic,tosendaidtotheFinnishRepublic,thePrimeMinisterwarnedScandinavia
atthattimeofthedangerthatstoodupontheirdoorsteps.ItwasthereforeknownbythePrimeMinisterthat
immediatedangerdidconfrontScandinavia,andindeeditwasobviousinthecircumstanceswithwhichthose
countrieswerefaced,andIthinkthePrimeMinister,indrawingattentiontothisdanger,ratherurgeduponthe
ScandinavianStatesthattheyshouldassociatethemselvestogetherandassociatewithus.Perfectlysoundadvice.
WhetherthePrimeMinisteristherightmantogiveit,inviewofhispastconductoftheforeignpolicyofthis
country,Idonotknow,butweallagreethatatthatmomentScandinaviadidstandinverygreatdanger.
ButdespitethatdangeritisnowestablishedthattheforceswhichwerereadypresumablyforembarkationtoFinland,
hadpermissionbeengivenbytheScandinavianStatesandarequestmadebyFinland,wereinthemainscatteredand
thatthetransportaccommodationforthemsimilarlyscattered.Thatdoesseemtometobeanamazingactionforthe
Governmenttohavetaken,especiallywhentheythemselvescontemplatedcertainactivitiesinrelationtoNorway.It
seemstomethatforcesproperlyequippedandpreparedoughttohavebeenreadyforactionatanymoment,andthata
policyofpreparationandreadinesswouldhavebeenwellworthwhile.InoticedthatthePrimeMinisterandthe
SecretaryofStateforWaryesterdaystressedthepointthat"WecouldnotletNorwaydownwehadtogothereand
dosomethingaboutit."ThatisnotchallengedinanypartoftheHouse.Weallagreethatsomethinghadtobedone,
butthemoreIhear,"Wehadtogothereanddosomethingaboutit,"themoreIbegintowonderwhetherthe
Government,insteadoftakingthisbusinessseriouslyasanessentialpartofourwarpolicy,weremerelydischarging
whattheyconsideredtobeamoralobligationinordertoprotectthemselvesfrompossiblecriticismsonmoral

grounds.Iaskinallseriousness,wasthisaseriousandproperlyorganisedexpeditionorademonstrationforthe
purposeofsatisfyingthemoralconscienceofsomeorallthemembersoftheGovernmentandoftheoutsideworld?
ThePrimeMinisterhasstressedquiterightly,andweallagreewithhim,thebrilliantsuccessoftheevacuationopera
tions,butquitefrankly,havingregardtotheinterestsofthiscountryandtheworld,Iwouldsoonerbeabletoboastof
thesuccessoflandingoperationsthanthesuccessofevacuationoperations,brilliantlyastheywereconducted.When
warisbeingconducted,andparticularlyawarofthiskind,againstsuchanenemy,whosemethodsandtacticsand
whoselittleaswellasbigtrickswereallyoughttobefamiliarwithnowwehavehadalongexperienceofHerr
Hitlerinpeaceandwehavehadnowanumberofmonths'experienceofHerrHitlerinwarIreallybegintowonder
howmuchexperienceofhimwearetohave,hownearwearetogettodisasterbeforeMinisterswilltrytounderstand
thepsychologyofthisman.Itispartofthewaroperationsthatweshouldunderstandhispsychologyandestimatehis
possibleactions.TheGovernmentoughttohaveconsidereditwastheirdutytoactionantecedenttotheevents
whichhaveoccurredinNorway,insteadofimprovisingexpedientsmostlyaftertheeventhasactuallyoccurred.
ItseemstomethattheremusthavebeenaweaknessinBritishdiplomacy,atanyratebeforethewarstartedin
Norway,intheScandinaviancountries.IamverydoubtfulwhethertheForeignOfficehastherightstandardsand
instinctsinselectingdiplomatistsforserviceabroad.Diplomacyundermodernconditionsisatotallydifferentjob.It
isnotenoughtohavenicegentlemenwithculturedmannersandwhoaregoodmixerswiththeupperclassesinthe
country.Itisvitalthatweshouldhavemenwhounderstandeverythingthatisgoingoninthecountriestowhichthey
areaccredited,menwhoknowtheviewsofthesocialclassesandthepoliticalandeconomicmovementsmenwho
arealiveandintouchwithallthesethingsiftheyaretobeeffectiverepresentativesofthiscountry,abletogather
informationandthecapacitytointerpretthatinformationtotheForeignOffice.Icannotbelievethattheattitudeofthe
Scandinaviancountriestowardsthiscountrywouldhavebeensounsatisfactoryasithasbeenifourdiplomaticjob
hadbeendonewellinthosecountriesyearsbefore.Afterall,thesearedemocraticcountriesandnearertotheAnglo
Saxondemocracythananyothercountriesintheworld,anditoughttohavebeenquitenaturalforthemtohavebeen
friendlywithus.
Secondly,Ireallywanttoknow,ifwecanbetoldIappreciatethatImayasksomequestionswhichMinistersmay
thinktheycannotproperlyanswerwhatwasthestateofourIntelligenceServiceinNorway?Howisitthatthis
cameuponuslikeaboltfromtheblue?AllthesenumbersofartificialGermanpopulation,includingdisguised
militaryforcesandacertainnumberofQuislings,didnotweknowanythingaboutit?DidnotourIntelligenceService
tellus?Itisnotaverydifficultmattertofindout.ItisnotaveryintricateproblemfortheSecretServicetohave
discoveredwhatwashappening.IftheSecretServicehasnottoldtheGovernmentwhatwashappeningthenthe
SecretServicewantsoverhaulingandsomeofthepeople,atthetopwanttobechanged.Butifitbethecasethatthe
IntelligenceServicedidreportandthatMinistersdidnotactontheinformationtheyreceived,thenMinisters
themselvesaredirectlyconcernedinagravefailuretotakeaccountoftheIntelligencesoconveyed.Inanycasethey
areresponsiblefortheIntelligenceServiceasthepoliticalheadsofDepartments.Butcanwebetoldwhenthe
GovernmentwereinformedthattheGermanswere,inthefirstplace,intendingtomoveagainstNorway,and,
secondly,whentheyactuallydidmoveagainstNorway,andnotonlyagainstNorwaybutagainstCopenhagenas
well?CanwebetoldwhenthefirstmessagecamethroughofthemovementofGermantransportsandshipsandhow
soonitwasbeforetheGovernmentmoved?
ThereareallegationsthatoneofthecausesoftheweaknessofourIntelligenceServiceisthesmallamountofmoney
spentuponit.IamabelieverineconomyinpublicexpenditureasmuchasanybodyintheHouse,butanyfalse
economyinourIntelligenceServiceinthecircumstancesofthiswarreallywouldbecriminaleconomy.Hereisa
letterbyagentleman,E.W.D.Tennant,inthe"DailyTelegraph"aboutourIntelligenceServiceandinrelationtothe
expenditureonsuchservicesabroad:Itis,however,inconceivablethatsuchavastplot,organisedformonthspast
notonlyinGermanybutalsofrominsideNorway,couldhavebeenkeptsecrethadourlegationatOslobeen
sufficientlystaffedandadequatelysuppliedwithfundstomaintainthenecessarycontactswithNorwegiansofevery
type.Thatseemstometobeareasonableproposition.Thewritergoesontosay:Itiswellknownthatour
LegationsinmanyotherEuropeancountriesarefacedwiththesamedifficultieswhichare,Iunderstand,entirelydue

tothepolicyoftheTreasuryandnottothatoftheForeignOffice.Noonedisputestheurgentneedfortheutmost
economy,butitcanbecarriedtoofarandcanbecomenotonlyexpensivebutdangerous.TheseoutpostsofBritainin
foreigncountriesshould,aslongasthewarlasts,beputintoapositiontocompetewithandcounterthestrenuous
effortsbeingmadebyGermany,buttheycanonlydothisifsuppliedwithadequatefundsandlargeenoughstaffs.
ApartfromtheIntelligenceServiceandthepositiveinformationandnewswhichmayhavebeensentthroughthe
IntelligenceService,wereallyoughttohaveknownenoughofthewaysandhabitsandtheprobableintentionsofHerr
HitlerfortheGovernmenttohaveanticipatedthatthisattackonNorwaywouldcomeatsometime,andquite
probablyatanearlytime.Moreover,whenthedecisiontolayminesinNorwegianterritorialwaterswasreachedI
shouldliketoaskwhetheranybodyintheGovernmentcontemplatedthattherewouldbepossiblecounteractionon
thepartoftheGermanGovernment,anddidanybodythinkwhatthatpossiblecounteractionmightbe?Ordidthe
Governmentgoonlayingminesandsay,"Wehavenoreasontothinkthatanythingofacounteractionwilltakeplace
onthepartoftheGermanGovernment."IdonotwanttheHousetothinkthatIdisagreewiththelayingofthemines.
IwasinfavourofactionbeingtakeninNorwegianterritorialwatersweeksbefore.Iwantedsuchactiontaken,butI
wanttoknowwhether,whentheactionwastaken,theGovernmenteverthoughtorspeculateduponpossiblereprisals
onthepartoftheenemyandtookstepstomeetthosepossiblereprisals?Then,whydidweletitbeknownthat
somethingwasmovinginregardtoNorwegianterritorialwaters?IknowthatthePrimeMinister,inansweringmy
hon.FriendtheMemberforBishopAuckland(Mr.Dalton),whomadethesuggestionthatsomethingshouldbedone
abouttheterritorialwaters,wasshockedinhismoralviewsthatweshouldcontemplateinterferingwithneutralrights.
Oneofthesedaysweshallreallyunderstandthatwearefightinganenemywhodoesnotbotheraboutneutralrightsat
all.
Mr.McGovern(Glasgow,Shettleston)Whatwouldyouhavedone?
Mr.MorrisonIwilltellthehon.Member.Ishouldhavewalkedintothoseterritorialwaters.Idonotthink
interruptionsbythehon.MemberwillhelpthisDebateoritsconduct.
Mr.McGovernGoon,conscientiousobjector.
Mr.MorrisonIcordiallyagreewiththeaction,butIdosaythatitwouldhavebeendesirableforMinisterstohave
contemplatedtheconsequencesofwhattheydid.Whydidweletitbeknownthatsomethingwasmovinginthis
direction?IappreciatethePrimeMinister'sviewthathedidnotliketheideaandhadmoralscruplesabouttouching
Norwegianterritorialwaters.ItmaybethathewaspreparingBritishpublicopinionforachangeofpolicy,and,
indeed,EnglishnewspapersfordaysbeforehadbeenpreparingthepublicbyhintsthatachangeinBritishpolicywas
coming.Ofallthefoolishthingsthatcouldhavebeendone,thatwasthemostfoolish.TotellHerrHitleralmostwhat
theyweregoingtodobeforetheydiditwasprofoundlyunwise.Obviously,iftheGovernmentweregoingtochange
theirpolicyinrelationtoNorwegianterritorialwaters,thewisestthingwouldhavebeentodoitandtelltheworld
aboutitafterwards.
ThenextpointIwanttoraiseinrelationtothewholeepisodeiswhethertheGovernmenthadsurveyedtheground.
Presumably,Ministersmusthavecontemplatedfromthebeginningofthewarthepossibility,andeventhe
probability,ofaconflictinNorway.Inthatcase,surelytheGovernmentoughttohavecausedsurveystobemadeof
docks,harbours,andfjordsthatcouldtakeNavalandotherships.Surely,theSecretaryofStateforWardidnotwait
untilhistroopswerelandedbeforehelookedaroundtoseewhethertherewerecranesinthefjords.Didwenothavea
surveyinrelationtoaerodromesandlandinggroundssoastoknowwheretogo,andbeabletogotherequickly?Did
wenothaveasurveyinrelationtothestorageofpetrolandotherthings?Wastherenotasurveysothat,intheevent
ofoperations,weshouldbereadytocheckGermanseacommunications?Iaskthesequestionsbecause,inthelightof
theDebatesofar,italmostlooksasifnoneofthesethingswasdone.Weseemtohavemovedwithoutanyprior
preparationoranyknowledgeofthesortofcountrytowhichweweregoingandthephysicalconditionsthatwould
faceus.Surely,weoughttohavedonethisworkofsurveyantecedenttomilitaryoperationsnotonlyinrelationto
Norway,butweoughttohavedoneitifwehavenot,Ihopeweshallproceedtodoitimmediatelyinrelationto
everyothercountryorpointatwhichwemaybeengagedinconflictwiththeenemy.Clearly,thisshouldhavebeen

donemonthsagoitshouldhavebeendoneaspartofthestaffworkbeforeeverwarbrokeoutinorderthatwemight
beready.InviewofthesituationintheBalkans,thepossiblesituationatGibraltar,inItaly,andsoon,thesesurveys
oughttohavebeencompleted,andweoughttoknowinbroaddetailwhatkindofproblemswillfaceusandhowwe
shallmove,subjectalwaystotheactionsoftheenemy.
Icomenowtotheactiveoperations.Ijoinwithmyrighthon.FriendtheLeaderoftheOppositionandthePrime
Ministerinpayingatributetothebraveryandcapacityofthetroops,airmenandsailors,butIshouldliketoaskthe
righthon.GentlemantheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltywhethertherewasanadvanceoftheFleetearlierthantheone
weknowaboutandareturnfromthehighseasbecauseatthattimetheenemywasnotdiscovered,althoughverysoon
afterwardsitwasknownthattheenemywasengagedinactiveoperations.
TheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty(Mr.Churchill)Idonotquiteunderstand.
Mr.MorrisonIamaskingwhetheritisthecasethattheFleet,becauseofabeliefthattheenemywasmoving,wentto
sea,didnotdiscovertheenemy,andreturned,andthenhadtogoagain.Secondly,Ishouldliketoknowwhatwere
thestrategicreasonsthatledusfirsttoNarvik.Iappreciatetheimportanceoftheironore,andIshallnotsayanything
scornfulaboutit,becauseitisofvitalimportancebothtousandtheenemy,anditwaslegitimateandproperthatwe
shouldtrytostoptheenemy'ssuppliesofironore.ButwasNarvikstrategicallytherightplacetoaimatfirst?Would
itnothavebeenwiserstrategicallytostartatamoreSouthernpoint?IfwehadfirstlandedatTrondheim,inamore
Southerlydirection,surelyweshouldhavebeeninabetterpositiontodealwithNarvik.Betterstill,itwouldhave
beenagoodthingtohavedealtwithboth.ItratherlooksasthoughwestartedatNarvik,andthen,amaterialperiod
afterwards,begantomoveSouth,andittendedtobelate.IshouldliketoknowwhatistheviewoftheGovernment
onthismatter.WithregardtoGermancommunicationswithNorway,theattacksontheaerodromesfromwhichthe
Germanplanescametookplaceinduecourse,butthereseemstohavebeenslownessbeforethoseattackstookplace,
anditlooksasthoughthereweremateriallydelayedlandingswithdoubtfulplanningonthepartoftheauthorities
concerned.
IwantnowtorefertoTrondheim.Allhon.Memberslistenedwithsympathyandinteresttothespeechofthehon.and
gallantMemberforNorthPortsmouth(SirR.Keyes)yesterday.Welistenedwithsomelittleemotionbecausewe
couldtellwhatwaspasingthroughthemindsofthehon.andgallantGentlemanandtherighthon.GentlemantheFirst
LordoftheAdmiralty,andweweresympathetic.Ithinktherewasnohon.Memberwholistenedtothatspeechwho
wasnotprofoundlyimpressed,anditisaspeechwhichleavestheFirstLordwithsomeveryimportantpointsto
answerwhenhespeaks.InrelationtotheproposedorconsideredNavalattackuponTrondheim,Ishouldliketoput
somequestionstotheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty.CanwebetoldwhetherthemenonthespotinchargeoftheFleet
atthatpointwantedtogoinandattack?Wasthattheirdesire?Ifso,mysecondquestioniswhethertheywerestopped
byWhitehallfromsoattacking?Itisprofoundlyimportantthatthatquestionshouldbeanswered,becauseTrondheim
isofgreatimportance.OurbombersdidverywellinthatpartofNorway,butthefactthatwehadnoaerodromesin
Norwayhasbeenrepeatedlyimpresseduponus.Igatherthereisanaerodromethereaboutswhich,ifwecouldhave
gotit,wouldhavemadeallthedifferencetotheoperationsofourfightersagainsttheenemy.Itwasofvital
importancethatweshouldgetthataerodrome,andIrathergatheredfromthespeechofthehon.andgallantMember
forNorthPortsmouththatweshouldhavegotithadwegonein.AstotheNarviksector,itwasrecentlystatedinthe
"DailyTelegraph"thattheGermansalreadyhaveanaerodromethereforfighters.Ishouldliketoknowwhetheritis
truethattheGermanshavetheresuchanaerodromewhichtheyareusingorcanusefortheirfighters.Ifso,whydid
wenotcaptureit,orwhydowenotcaptureit,anduseit?
IcomenowtoaseriesofquestionswhichIshouldliketoputtoMinisters.Wasthereaplaninoperationforunityof
commandbetweenthevariousforcesinNorway,atanyrateassoonasitwaspracticabletoengageinoperations?Isit
thecasethatA.A.gunsweresentwithoutpredictors,andthattheyweresentaweeklate?Isitthecasethatotherguns
weresentwithoutammunition?Isitthecasethatmachinegunsweresentwithoutsparebarrels?Wasthereanyproper
liaisonbetweentheportoccupiedbyusatNamsosandtheportoccupiedbyusatAndalsneswerethereproper
communicationsbetweenthosetwopoints?Isitafactthatthemilitaryforcewasnotsuppliedwithsnowshoes,the

consequencebeingthatthetroopswerestuckontheroadsandwerebombedthere?IsitafactthatTerritorialBrigades
weresentIjoinwitheverybodyelseinpayingatributetotheircourageandcapacity,fortheyfoughtwithall
couragewhichweresecondTerritorialArmyunitsthathadneverhadevenbrigadetraining?Finally,Iventureto
intimatethat,inthelightoftherepliestothesequestions,wemustreserveourrighttoaskforsomeformofinquiry
intotheseoperationswithaviewtoascertainingwhowasresponsibleforthedifficulties.Ifthepoliticianswere
responsible,theymusttakethejudgmentofthecountryandtheHouse,andifhighofficerswereresponsible,thenof
course,Ministersareresponsiblefortheconductofthosehighofficers.Iwishonlytosay,inpassing,thatitisthe
dutyofMinisterstoanswerforhighofficers,butitisnolesstheirduty,iftheyaresatisfiedthattherehavebeen
mistakesbyhighofficers,toconsiderreplacingthembyothers.
Towardsthecloseofhisspeech,thePrimeMinisterindicatedtheactionwhichtheGovernmenthadtakenand
informedusthattheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyistobeappointedasasortofdirector,inspirerandgiverof
instructions,wherenecessary,totheChiefsofStaffCommittee.TheHouseandthecountryhaveagreatdealof
confidenceintheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,butIwonderwhetheritisquitefairtotherighthon.Gentlemanthat,in
additiontohisheavylaboursattheAdmiralty,heshouldhavethistaskofbeingconcernedwiththegeneralstrategy
andhighpolicyof,presumably,alltheArmedForcesoftheCrown.Isitphysicallypossibleforhimtodothis?Can
hedoitonlyattheexpenseofhisownphysicalandmentalefficiencyinduecourse?Ofallthedangerstobefoundin
Governmentintimeofwar,perhapstherearetwothataremostimportantoneisbadMinisters,andtheotheristired
Ministers.EvenwhenagoodMinisterbecomestired,hemay,withoutwishingorknowingit,becomeadanger.Isit
fairtotheheadsoftheotherServiceDepartmentsthattheheadofoneServiceshould,sotospeak,supervisethe
others?Finally,isitthecasethattherighthon.GentlemantheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyisbeingusedasasortof
shieldbythePrimeMinisterwhenhefindsitconvenienttodoso?IamquiteawarethatthePrimeMinisterhasgreat
confidenceintheFirstLord.Ihavebeenpleasedtonoticethatduringrecentmonths.Butitappearstomethatwhen
theGovernmentareintrouble,whentheyareopentocriticismongroundsofincompetence,theytendtobringthe
FirstLordintotheshopwindowinthebeliefthatthatwillsatisfypubliccriticism.Thatisnotaltogetherfair.Ittends
toplaceontheFirstLordresponsibilitieswhichhecannotpossiblycarry,andwhichitisdoubtfulwhether,infact,the
Governmentwillallowhimtocarry.
ThePrimeMinistersaidthathehasanopenmindaboutthemachineryofGovernmentandthatheiswillingtomake
changesifheisconvincedtheyaredesirable.Hesaid,however,thatitisthewareffortthatreallymattersandnotthe
machineryofGovernmentthatitismaterials,supplies,andsoon,thatmatter.ButifthemachineryofGovernmentis
wrong,itwillimpedethewareffort.Whilemachinery,asmachinery,isnotconclusive,andwhilewemustnotgeta
machinerycomplex,neverthelesstheexistenceofmachinerythatisefficient,rapidandsmoothrunningisamatterof
vitalimportanceintheprosecutionofthewar.IsuggestthatthespeechesofthePrimeMinisterandtheSecretaryof
StateforWararenotgoodenough.Thisisnotthefirstmistakethathisoccurredintheprosecutionofthewar.We
havehadtroublesaboutFinlandwehavehadtroublesaboutNorway.Therearetoomanytroubles,andinparticular,
therearetoomany"toolates"intheprosecutionofthiswar.Thereistroubleinconnectionwithsupply.Thereisa
lackofmaterialandofcomponentpartsforthefactoriestouse.Ihaveactuallyheardofafactoryforaeroplane
manufacturewhichhasbeenemptysincethebeginningofSeptemberbecausethemachineryisnotavailable.Thereis
backwardnessintheorganisationoflabour.IamstilldoubtfulwhetherAngloFrencheconomiccooperationis
adequatetotheneedsoftheprosecutionofthewar.
Thefactisthatbeforethewarandduringthewar,wehavefeltthatthewholespirit,tempoandtemperamentofat
leastsomeMinistershavebeenwrong,inadequateandunsuitable.Iamboundtorefer,inparticular,tothePrime
Minister,theChancelloroftheExchequerandtheSecretaryofStateforAir.Icannotforgetthatinrelationtothe
conductofBritishforeignpolicybetween1931and1939,theywereconsistentlyandpersistentlywrong.Iregard
themasbeing,perhapsmorethananyotherthreemen,responsibleforthefactthatweareinvolvedinawarwhichthe
wisecollectiveorganisationofpeacecouldhaveprevented,andjustastheylackedcourage,initiative,imagination,
psychologicalunderstanding,livelinessandselfrespectintheconductofforeignpolicy,soIfeelthattheabsenceof
thosequalitieshasmanifesteditselfintheactualconductofthewar.Ihavethegenuineapprehensionthatifthesemen
remaininoffice,werungraveriskoflosingthiswar.Thatwouldbeafatalandaterriblethingforthiscountryand,

indeed,forthefutureofthehumanrace.Wearefightingforourlives.Humanityisstrugglingforitsfreedom.The
issuesofthewararetoogreatforustorisklosingitbykeepinginofficemenwhohavebeenthereforalongtimeand
havenotshownthemselvestoowellfittedforthetask.Thereismuchmorethanpoliticsinvolvedinthisdiscussion.
Thereisthewarandallitsconsequences.Becausewefeel,inviewofthegravityoftheeventswhichwearedebating,
thattheHousehasadutyandthateveryMemberhasaresponsibilitytorecordhisparticularjudgmentuponthem,we
feelwemustdividetheHouseattheendofourDebatetoday.
Wehaveasassetsinthiswarthequalitiesofourpeople.WehaveforthewinningofthiswarBritishability,British
spiritandBritishdetermination.Thequalitiesofourpeoplearegreat,theabilitiesofourpeopleareconsiderable,the
spiritofourpeopleishigh.Butifthatability,spiritanddeterminationaretobeused,theymustbeledbyMinisters
whowillcommandtherespectofthepopulationandwhoseleadthepopulationwillbehappyandproudtofollow.
Further,wehaveourBritishmaterialresources.Butyoucannotgetthebestoutofthosematerialresources,unless
Ministersplanandorganiseforthemosteffectiveprosecutionofthewar.Thespeechesofmyrighthon.Friendswho
spokeyesterdayandthespeechwhichwillbemadebymyrighthon.FriendtheMemberforHillsborough(Mr.A.V.
Alexander)induecourse,withothers,will,Ithink,befoundtoconstituteaveryseriousindictmentoftheconductof
affairsbyHisMajesty'sGovernment.Iaskhon.MembersinallpartsoftheHousetorealisetothefullthe
responsibilityofthevotewhichtheywillgivetonight,avotewhichwill,broadly,indicatewhethertheyarecontent
withtheconductofaffairsorwhethertheyareapprehensiveabouttheconductofaffairs.Ihavelittledoubtaboutthe
feelingsandtheapprehensionsofourfellowcountrymenoutside.IaskthatthevoteoftheHouseshallrepresentthe
spiritofthecountryandgiveaclearindicationthatweinsistentlydemandthatthisstrugglebecarriedthroughto
victory,withallvigourandcapacitybytheMinistersincommand.
4.53p.m.
ThePrimeMinister(Mr.Chamberlain)Thewordswhichtherighthon.Gentlemanhasjustutteredmakeitnecessary
formetointerveneforamomentortwoatthisstage.Therighthon.Gentlemanbeganhisspeechbyemphasisingthe
gravityoftheoccasion.Whathehassaid,thechallengewhichhehasthrownouttotheGovernmentingeneralandthe
attackwhichhehasmadeonthem,anduponmeinparticular,makeitgraverstill.Naturally,asheadofthe
Government,IaccepttheprimaryresponsibilityfortheactionsoftheGovernment,andmycolleagueswillnotbe
slowtoaccepttheirresponsibilitytoofortheactionsoftheGovernment.Butitisgrave,notbecauseofanypersonal
considerationbecausenoneofuswoulddesiretoholdontoofficeforamomentlongerthanweretainedthe
confidenceofthisHousebutbecause,asIwarnedtheHouseyesterday,thisisatimeofnationaldanger,andweare
facingarelentlessenemywhomustbefoughtbytheunitedactionofthiscountry.Itmaywellbethatitisadutyto
criticisetheGovernment.Idonotseektoevadecriticism,butIsaythistomyfriendsintheHouseandIhave
friendsintheHouse.NoGovernmentcanprosecuteawarefficientlyunlessithaspublicandParliamentarysupport.I
acceptthechallenge.Iwelcomeitindeed.Atleastweshallseewhoiswithusandwhoisagainstus,andIcallonmy
friendstosupportusintheLobbytonight.
4.55p.m.
TheSecretaryofStateforAir(SirSamuelHoare)Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforSouthHackney(Mr.H.
Morrison)hascoveredaverywidefieldandhasaskedmeanumberofquestions.Iproposetodealwithsomeofthem
inthecourseofmyspeech,andIpropose,ashehimselfsuggested,toleaveothersofthemtomyrighthon.Friendthe
FirstLordoftheAdmiralty.Duringyesterday'sDebate,thePrimeMinisterdealtatsomelengthwiththegeneral
position,andmyrighthon.FriendtheSecretaryofStateforWardealtinparticularwiththemilitaryoperations.I
propose,withtheleaveoftheHouse,toconcentratemyspeechontheairsideoftheeventsofthelastmonthandthe
parttakenintheseoperationsbytheRoyalAirForce.ItisthefirstoccasionsinceIbecameSecretaryofStateforAir
thatIhavehadtheopportunityinthisHouseofsayingsomethingoftheairoperations,andIamsurethathon.
Memberswillwishme,attheoutset,togiveinshortoutline,adescriptionofwhattheAirForcehasbeenattempting
tododuringthelastthreeorfourweeks.
TheGermanswereincontrolofallthestrategicalaerodromesinCentralandSouthernNorway.[Hon.Members:

"Why?"]Thatisthecriticalfactwhichmustneverbeforgotteninconsideringthemilitaryoperationswhich
subsequentlytookplace.Hon.MembersaskwhyweretheGermansinpossessionofthoseaerodromes.Ishalldeal
withthatquestionlater,butforthemomentletmeemphasisethispoint,thatitisthecriticalfactintheeventsofthe
lastfourweeksthattheGermanswereinpossessionofallthestrategicalaerodromesinCentralandSouthernNorway.
Itisacountrywherethereareveryfewaerodromesandwhereitisdifficult,owingtothenatureoftheground,to
improvisenewlandingplaces.ThismeansthatfromtheveryoutsettheRoyalAirForcewassufferingunderavery
heavyhandicap.WhileourmachineshadtoflyhundredsofmilesbackwardsandforwardsacrosstheNorthSeainthe
mostterribleweather,ourenemyhadhisairbasesonthespot.Ourenemywasoperatinguponinteriorlinesof
communicationandhadmanyrefuellingpointsbetweenGermanyandScandinavia.
InfaceofthesedifficultieswhatwasthetaskthatwassettheRoyalAirForce?Thetaskwastowinafootholdin
Norwayforourfightersand,duringthetimethatattemptwasbeingmade,todoeverythinginitspowertoreducethe
scaleofairattackthatwasbeinglauncheduponourseabases.FacedwiththattasktheAirForceatoncesettowork.
Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforSouthHackneyseemstothinkthattherewassomedelayinstartingthese
operations.Icantellhimcategoricallyandthisisthefirstofmyanswerstohisquestionsthattherewasnosuch
delay.ImmediatelyaftertheentryoftheGermansintoNorway,wemadeanairreconnaissance.Withina
comparativelyfewhours,takingthefirstnightonwhichtheweathermadeitpossibletofly,westartedaseriesof
intensivebombingattacks,notonlyupontheaerodromesinNorwaybutononeofthekeyaerodromesinDenmark
andoneofthekeyaerodromesinGermany.Wechosethesetargetsbecausetheywerefocalpointsintheenemy'sair
scheme.
Theywere,sotospeak,theirjunctionsandtheirrefuellingpoints.Fromthatearlydayonwards,dayafterdayand
nightafternight,inthefaceofterribleweatherconditionsandinthefaceofallthedifficultiesinvolvedinthelong
flightsbackwardsandforwardsacrosstheNorthSea,wemaintainedtheseintensiveattacksuponthesekeypoints.I
contendthatthateffortoftheRoyalAirForcehadverydefiniteandmarkedresults.Theywereablefirstofallvery
materiallytoreducethescaleofairattackuponourbasesandourtroops.Itisworthmentioning,asanexample,that
weheardfromGermanprisonersofwarthatonthedaysfollowingtheseheavyattackstherewassometimeslittleor
noGermanactivityupontheparticularaerodromeattacked.Thatshowsthattheseattackshadgreateffect.Igosofar
astosaythatthewithdrawaloftheBritishtroops,muchasweregretthenecessity,couldnothavetakenplaceas
successfullyasitdidwithoutareductionofthescaleofairattackuponthebases,whichresultedfromtheseintensive
attacksinthedaysandnightsprevioustothewithdrawal.NotonlywastheAirForceabletoreducethescaleof
attack,butitwasable,andthereisnodoubtaboutthisatall,toinflictveryheavylossesupontheGermanAirForce.I
donotwanttoattempttopaintanoptimisticpictureortoclaimachievementsforwhichthereisnotampleevidence,
butIsaytotheHouse,upontheevidenceatmydisposalanditisnotmeregossiporhearsaywhenIclaim,thatwe
inflictedupontheGermanAirForcethreetimesthelosseswhichtheyinflicteduponus.Itisaclaimbasedupon
evidence.Whenwecometoaddupthecreditanddebitsideofthisaccount,letusrememberthefactthatthelosses
wehaveinflictedupontheGermanAirForcehavebeenthreetimesasheavy,duringthelastmonth,asthelosses
inflicteduponusbytheGermans.
Mr.Batey(Spennymoor)IsthatinNorway?
SirS.HoareInScandinavia.Ihavehadthechanceduringthelastfewweeksofseeingsomethingofthepilotsandthe
airmenwhohavebeencarryingthroughtheseverydifficultanddangerousoperations.
Mr.BenjaminSmith(Rotherhithe)Wouldtherighthon.Gentlemangiveusthenumberoflossesinflicted?
SirS.HoareNo,Iamnotgoingtogivenumbers,andIwouldaskthehon.Membernottopressme.WhatIsaidwas
noexaggeration.Ihavehadthechanceduringthelastfewweeksofdiscussingtheseoperationswiththeyoungmen
whohaveactuallytakenpart,andIthinktheHousewouldliketoknowwhattremendousimpressionthesetalkshave
madeuponme,notonlyofthecourageoftheofficersandmenintheRoyalAirForce,butoftheirsteadybalanced
mindsandoftheresolutejudgmentwithwhichtheycarriedthroughthesedifficultoperations.Theyareyoungmen,
anditmustberememberedthattheAirForceisaveryyoungService.Itisaveryheavyresponsibilitytoputupona

veryyoungmanacaptainofoneofthesebomberaircrafttotakehiscrewacrosstheNorthSea,300,400,or500
milestofindhistargetandthentocomeback,veryofteninthefaceofenemyattack,andoftenwithagooddealof
damagedonetohismachineasaresultofencounters.WhenIhavetalkedtotheseyoungmenIhavefeltthathereis
qualitywhich,ifgivenitschance,andifmatchedagainsttheenemyonreasonablyequalterms,willtakeaveryheavy
tollofanyattackswhichmaybemade.Thesearetheyoungmenwhohavebeenmakingtheseattacksnightafternight
duringthelastmonth.
But,inaddition,therehavebeentheRoyalAirForcereconnaissanceunitsflyingthousandsofmilesdayandnight,
achievingfeatsofextraordinaryendurance.Therearealsothefighterunitsandparticularlythefighterunitsofthe
FleetAirArm,thecavalryoftheNavy,whichintheearlydaysoftheoperationmadebreathlesschargesuponships
andbases,materiallyhelpingtheRoyalAirForceinkeepingdownthescaleofGermanattacks.
TherehavealsobeenthefighterunitsoftheRoyalAirForce,aboutwhichIshouldliketogivetheHousealittle
detailedinformation.Idosoforthisreason,thattherehasbeenagooddealofmisunderstandingandagooddealof
rumourabouttheincidentstowhichIamgoingtorefer.TheHousewillrememberthatduringthelastfortnighta
fightersquadronofGladiatorswassenttoScandinavia,fightersbeinganessentialneedifweweretocopewiththe
Germanbomberattack.Therehavebeenmanyrumoursgoingaroundthatowingtobadmanagementthisfighter
squadronarrivedwithoutanypetrolandthatthemachinesweredestroyedonthegroundbeforetheyhadevengone
intoaction.Itakethisstoryasatypicalexampleofthewayinwhichrumourisspreadandthewayinwhich
misunderstandingsariseforwhichthereisnofoundationatall.YesterdayintheHouseofCommonsIsawthetwo
seniorofficersofthissquadronofGladiators,andIheardfromtheirownmouthswhatactuallyhappened.Itisastory
ofsuchfineachievementthatIamgoingtotellittotheHouse,andIthinkitwillonceandforalldisposeofthese
rumoursthatowingtobadmanagementthesemachineshadnoopportunityofoperating.Wesentoutwiththefirst
troopsreconnaissancepartiestoAndalsnesandbeganasearchforbasesonlevelgroundwhichcouldbeusedas
landingplaces.
Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforSouthHackneyaskedwhywehadnotmadethesesearchesbefore,andI
willgivehimthereason.Thereasonwasthattheonlylevelgroundinthisneighbourhoodwasfrozenlakes,anditwas
impossibletosayevenadayortwobeforewhetheraparticularlakeatthisparticulartimewhenthethawwas
beginningwouldtakeaeroplanesornot.Welostnotime:wesentoutareconnaissanceparty,andasearchwaspushed
uptheRomsdalValley,wherethereareafewlakes,lying2,000feetabovesealevelbutwhichneverthelesswereable
toprovideasmoothsurfaceevenatthisseasonoftheyear.OnlyonelakewassuitablewhichwasnearLesjiskoz,
lyingafewmilesbehindthejunctionofDombas.Thesurfacewassweptclearofsnowtoformarunwayandthe
necessarystoresofammunitionandpetrolwereprovidedandinlessthanaweekitwasreadytoreceiveaircraft.It
wasaveryprimitiveaerodrome,butitcouldbeusedbyskilledanddeterminedairmen.Isaidtotherighthon.
GentlemantheMemberforSouthHackneythattherewasnodelayatall,butinthenatureofthingsittooksometime,
thelakebeingcoveredwithgreatwavesoficeandhugemassesofsnow,togettherunwayclear.Welostnotimein
makingthelakeready.
MeanwhiletherehadalreadybeenembarkedononeoftheaircraftcarriersasquadronequippedwithGladiators,a
typewhichacquitteditselfsowellinFinland.TheyhavenotthespeedoftheHurricaneortheSpitfire,buttheyhavea
smallertakeoffandtheyareprobablythebestofthemodernfighterbiplaneshaving,aswellastheshorttakeoff,a
veryhighrateofclimb.Assoonasthelandinggroundwasreadythepilotsofthesquadron,whowere18innumber,
flewtheaircraftoffthedeckoftheaircraftcarrier,whichwas180milesfromland.Theyflewoffinathicksnow
storm,andtheseofficersyesterdaydescribedtome
AdmiraloftheFleetSirRogerKeyes(Portsmouth,North)HowweretheseGladiatorstakenaboardtheaircraft
carrier?
SirS.HoareIthinktheywereflownon,butIwillconfirmthat.
SirR.KeyesWeretheyflownaboardbynavalflyingpilots?

SirS.HoareIamspeakingofAirForcesquadrons.IthinktheywereflownonbyAirForceofficers,butIwill
confirmthat.
CommanderBower(Cleveland)IsitnotafactthattheywereflownonbytheFleetAirArmpilots?Surelyitisa
matterofthegreatestimportance.
SirS.HoareIfindthattheywereflownonbyFleetAirArmpilots,andIwouldbethelastpersonintheworldtosay
anythingtodepreciatethecourageandefficiencyoftheFleetAirArm.
Mr.GeorgeGriffiths(Hemsworth)Youdonotseemtoknowanythingaboutit.
SirS.HoareItwasacombinedactwhichisthekindofactIhopeweshallseeinfuturebetweentheFleetAirArm
andtheRoyalAirForce.At7o'clockthateveningtheylandedonthelakeandbegantoestablishthemselves,andby
10p.m.thefirstpatrolwasintheair.Thatnightitfrozehard,andtheDawnPatrolwasnotabletotakeoffuntil5a.m.
owingtotheveryhardfrost.LettheHousenoticewhathappenednext.ThefirstGermanbombersappearedat5a.m.
andwereatonceengaged.Thebattlethusbeguncontinuedwithoutintermissionuntilabout8.30p.m.TheGerman
HighCommandconcentrateduponthelakeanimmenseattackofbombers,anditiscrediblysaidthatsomethinglike
80bomberstookpart.Theywereoverthelakecontinuouslyfor15hours,socontinuouslythatitishardlypossibleto
speakofseparateattacks.Tonsofhighexplosivebombsweredroppedonthesurfaceoftheaerodrome,whichwas
sprayedceaselesslywithmachinegunfire.Duringthatperiodtherewere37combats,andsixGermanmachineswere
broughtdownclosetothelake.ItseemscertainthatanothereightGermanmachineswerebroughtdowninthe
vicinity.ThesquadronleaderandtheflightlieutenantwhomIsawyesterdaytoldmetheyareconfidentthatnofewer
than30Germanmachineswereputoutofoperationinthecourseofthese15hours.
Igivethesefactstomakeitclearthattherewasnofoundationfortherumoursthatweregoingroundaboutthis
squadronnothavingbeeninaction.Igivethemalsotoshowhowdifferentwouldhavebeenthesituationincentral
Norwaysupposingwehadbeenabletowinairbasesfromwhichwecouldhaveoperatedourfightersquadrons.This
instance,ifanyisneeded,showsthequalityoftheBritishfighter.WithairbasesproperlydefendedIamconfident
thatthecourseoftheeventsofthelastfourweekswouldhavebeenentirelytransformed.Iamgladtosay,andthe
House,Iamsure,willbegladofthisinformation,thatHisMajestyhasbeenpleasedtoconferanumberof
decorationsonthisverygallantsquadron.
Mr.Dalton(BishopAuckland)MayIask,inordertocompletetheverygallantstorywhichwearegladtohear,
whateverwemaythinkofthepoliticians,whethertherewereanyantiaircraftgunstoengagetheGermansinthe
neighbourhood?
SirS.HoareNo,Iamsorrytosaytherewerenot.Thearrangementsforantiaircraftgunshadbeenupsetbythe
sinkingsofships,anditwasaquestionwhethertohurryonthesquadronorwaitsomefurtherdaysfortheantiaircraft
guns.Onthewhole,wetookthedecision,andIbelieveitwasarightone,tosendtheaeroplanesonandtoengagethe
Germanbombersatonce.
Mr.Barnes(EastHam,South)Wasthissquadronwithdrawnafterthelakewasdestroyed?
SirS.HoareIamafraidthattheeffectofthisbombingattackwastodestroyanumberofthemachines.Theaccount
givenbytheGermansofthemachineshavingbeendestroyedwasincorrect,butthegreaterpartofthemachinesafter
thisgallantbattlewereputoutofactionbythebombing.Theywereputoutofactiononthegroundnotoneofthem
wasbroughtdownintheair.
Ihavegiven,injusticetotheAirForce,thisshortaccountofthesplendidpartthattheyhaveplayedintheoperations
ofthepastfewweeks.IcomenowtothequestionsthatarisefromtheseoperationsandtothelessonsthatIsuggest
theHouseshouldlearnfromthem.Itseemstomethatthecentralquestionthatarisesfromtheoperationsisthis:Did
weunderratethepoweroftheair?Didwerealisethedevastatingdamagethatairpowercouldinflictiftherewereno
counterattackagainstit?Fromtheveryfirstwerealisedtheairdanger.Wesawfromthefirstthatifouroperations

weretosucceed,wemustgainanairbasefromwhichourfighterscouldoperate.Itwaswiththatintentionthatthe
pincermovementwasdevelopedbetweenNamsosandAndalsnes.Ifithadsucceeded,weshouldhavegotanairbase
andweshouldhavebeenabletodevelop,aswebelieve,somesubsidiarybases.Itdidnotsucceed,anditwasclearto
usthatifwecouldnotestablishanairbase,itwouldbecomeimpossible,inviewofthescaleoftheGermanbomber
attackswithoutaforcetomeetit,tomaintaintheseabases.Thequestionmaybeaskedaftertheeventwhether,ifwe
foresawthatstateofaffairsfromthebeginning,therewasanythingthatweoughttohavedonewhichwedidnotdoor
anythingthatwediddothatweoughtnottohavedone.Oughtwe,forinstance,tohavesentmoreAirForceormore
troops?Ibelievethatanyimpartialjudgewouldsaythatthatwouldnothavehelpedus.Aslongaswecouldnot
maintainseabasesthefactofsendingmoreaircraftormoretroopswouldnothavehelpedthesituationandmight
havemadeitworse.
WhenIlookbackovertheeventsofthelastthreeorfourweeksIcometotheconclusionthattherewasnothing,in
viewofthefactthatwehadnottheseairbases,thatwecouldhavedonethatwedidnotdo.Theonlyotherconclusion
thatcouldbereachedwasthat,inviewofthefactthatwehadnotairbases,weoughttohavedonenothingatall,butI
cannotacceptaviewofthatkindforamoment.IdonotbelievethatanyselfrespectingGovernmentcouldhavesat
stillinfaceoftheNorwegianappealandinfaceoftheissuesthatareatstakeandhavedonenothing.Idonotbelieve
thecountrywouldhavestoodforinactionofthatkind.Ibelieveitwasinevitablethatweshouldtaketherisk.We
knewtheriskfromthebeginning,butIdosay,andIaskhon.Memberstoconcentrateonthispoint,thataslongaswe
hadnoairbasesfromwhichourfighterscouldoperatetherewasnothingthatweshouldhavedonethatwedidnot
attempttododuringthelastfourweeks.Thisseemstometobethecardinalfactorinthissituation,andIhopethatin
theDebateeveryhon.Memberwillkeepinhismindthatifwehadnoairbaseswecouldnotsecureseabasesupon
whichourlinesofcommunicationdepend.
Mr.NoelBaker(Derby)Therighthon.Gentlemansaidthatifthepincermovementhadsucceeded,wecouldhave
securedairbases.IshereferringtoVaernesortoothers?
SirS.HoareIwasreferringtoVaernesaerodrome,andtherewereoneortwootherpossiblelandinggroundsthatwe
mighthavedeveloped.Havingsaidawordaboutthecentralquestioninthiscontroversy,letmecometoanother
questionwhichwasputtomebytherighthon.Gentleman.Heraiseditoverthewholefieldofoperationsandthe
answerIgivefortheairoperationswillbeequallytrueofthemilitaryoperations.Didweactsufficientlyquickly?I
havealreadytoldtheHousethat,sofarasintensivebombingattacksonenemytargetswereconcerned,westartedat
onceandwekeptthemupforweekswithoutintermissioninfaceofeverybadweatherconditionthatanybodycould
conceive.DidwedelaywiththefightersquadronofwhichIhavejustgivenanaccount?There,again,westarted
operationsattheearliestmoment.Wetookadvantageofthefirstaircraftcarrierthatcouldtakeaeroplanesandwe
tooktheriskofsendingthembeforeantiaircraftgunscouldbeemplacedbythelake.Iclaimthatanymeticulous
investigationintotheseairoperationswouldshowthatinnorespectwasthereanyavoidabledelayandthatonno
questionsdidwereachadecisionexceptontacticalandstrategicalgrounds.
IpassfromthatquestiontothelessonthatIsuggestshouldbedrawnfromtheseoperations.IsitthattheGermanair
powerisinvincible?Thereisnotanhon.Memberwhowouldgivetheanswerthatitis.Theansweris,"Certainly
not."Airpower,beitGermanoranyother,isonlyinvinciblewhenthereisnotsufficientcounterairpoweragainstit.
InthiscasewehadnofighterforcetocopewiththeGermanbombers.Wherewehavehadairfightersavailablethey
haveshownhowwelltheycancopewiththeGermanbombers.Thewholehistoryoftheeightmonthsofwaristo
showthesuperiorityofBritishfightersoverGermanbombers.Allthattheseoperationsshowisthatstrongairpower
mustbemetbystrongerairpower.
ThatbringsmetothesecondlessonwhichIclaimweoughttodrawfromtheseexperiences.Itisnotalessonof
Britishweakness.Itis,rather,alessonofthepoweroftheBritishairstrikingforce.HithertoithasbeentheBritish
fighterthathasbeenmostactiveintheair,andthisisthefirstoccasion,apartfromafewisolatedincidentslikethe
attackuponSylt,onwhichourstrikingforcehasbeenusedintensivelyoveraperiodoftime.Iclaimthatthe
experiencesoftheseweeksshowthegreatpowerofthisstrikingforce.Thefactthatoverhundredsofmilesofthe

NorthSea,nightafternight,wecouldmaintainthisheavyscaleattackthatwecouldinflictgreatdamageuponthe
keypointsintheGermanairattack,althoughitwasacaseveryoftenofbombersbeingpittedagainstfightersthatwe
couldtakeamuchheaviertolloftheirmachinesthantheytookofours,showsnottheweaknessoftheBritishair
powerbutthestrength.Inqualityunsurpassedinquantitynotnearlybigenough.TheonethingthatanySecretary
ofStateforAirthinksaboutdaybydayandnightbynightisproduction,production,production.
Mr.AustinHopkinson(Mossley)Therighthon.Gentlemanstatedthatthequalitywasmoreorlessperfectbutthe
quantitywasinsufficient.Supposingthatwehadhad20timesthenumberoffighters,shouldwehavebeenanymore
successfulintheNorwegiancampaigninasmuchastheywereincapableofworkingfrombasesthere?
SirS.HoareCertainly,bymyanswer,Icouldnotagreewithmyhon.Friend.Ifwehadhadfightersoperatingfrom
Norwegianbases
Mr.HopkinsonNo,thatisnotmypoint.Iaskedwhetherreduplicating,multiplyingby20times,thenumberof
fightersHurricanesandSpitfireswouldhavemadeanydifferencewhatsoevertothecampaigninNorway.
SirS.HoareMyanswerwouldbe,No,notwithoutairbasesinNorway.Thewholebasisofmyargumenthasbeen
thatwithoutthoseairbaseswehavebeensufferingunderanalmostoverwhelminghandicapduringthelastfew
weeks.
LetmecomebacktothepointatwhichIleftmyspeech,namely,thattheseeventshaveshownthehighqualityofthe
RoyalAirForce.Wehavenowtomakeeveryeffort,theSecretaryofStateforAirinparticular,togivetheAirForce
manymoremachinesthantheyhaveatpresent.Lettherebenomisunderstandingonthispoint:Ourproductionof
machinesisatpresentveryconsiderable.Letnoforeigncountrytaketheviewthatitisinsignificant.Itisvery
considerableanditisnowgainingmomentum.IamabletotelltheHousethatthefiguresofthelastmonth's
productionarebyfarthebestfigureswehaveeverhad,andIamconvincedmyselfthattheyarenotexceptional.They
arenotduetoanycircumstancespeculiartoonemonthmorethananother.Ibelievetheydoshowthatthemomentum
isnowgatheringspeed.Arighthon.Gentlemanoppositesays,"Now,"butletnooneunderratethedifficultyof
developingagreatprogrammeofthiskind.Thefiguresaremuchbetterthantheyhaveeverbeen,andIseenoreason
whytheyshouldnotsteadilybecomebetterandbetter.
Icanonlytellhon.Memberstodaythat,sofarasIamconcerned,andinsofar,indeed,asanySecretaryofStatefor
Airisconcerned,thereisnoobstaclethatIwillnottrytoremove,thereisnoeffortthatIwillnotmake,inorderto
increaseandtospeeduptheproductionoftheseessentialmachines.ItisadutythatanySecretaryofStateforAir
owestohiscountryitisadutythatheowestothisEmpire,itisaduty,inparticularthatheowestothegallantyoung
menintheAirForcewhoseexploitsIhavetriedtodescribetoday.SofarasIamconcerned,Iintendtodomy
utmosttofulfilthisduty.
Mr.DaltonMayIasktherighthon.Gentlemanonequestionbeforehesitsdown?Hewasaskedaquestionbymy
righthon.Friendwhichhasimportanceandinterestwhetherthestatementpublishedinthe"DailyTelegraph"two
daysagothattheGermansareactuallynowusingforGermanfightersaerodromesintheNarviksectoristrue?Ifso,
whatcommenthashetomakeuponit?
SirS.HoareThestatement,sofarasIknow,iswithoutanyfoundation,andIhavethereforenocomment.Wehave
noknowledgeofanysuchaerodromesandIshouldthinkitisextremelyunlikelythatitistrue.
Mr.H.MorrisonThequestionsIputabouttheIntelligenceServicearetobeansweredbytheFirstLordofthe
Admiralty,Iunderstand?
SirS.Hoareindicatedassent.
5.37p.m.

Mr.LloydGeorge(CarnarvonBoroughs)Iintervenewithmorereluctancethanusual[Laughter.]
Hon.MembersOrder.
Mr.LloydGeorgeIintervenewithmorereluctancethanusualinthisDebate.Allmyhon.Friendsknowverywellthat
IhesitatedwhetherIshouldtakepartinitatall,becauseIthoughtitwasmoredesirablethatweshouldhavea
discussioninwhichMembersnotoffrontbenchrankshouldtakeagooddealofthetime,butIthinkthatitismy
duty,havingregardtothefactthatIhavesomeexperienceofthesematters[Hon.Members:"Speakup,please."]If
aWelshmanhasafault,itisthathegenerallyspeakslowatthebeginningbutafterwardsworksup.IfeelthatIought
tosaysomething,fromsuchexperienceasIhavehadinthepastoftheconductofwarinvictoryandindisaster,about
whatIthinkofthepresentsituationandwhatreallyoughttobedone.Ihaveheardmostofthespeechoftherighthon.
GentlemantheSecretaryofStateforAir,andIshouldthinkthatthefactswhichhegaveusjustifythecriticism
againsttheGovernmentandarenodefenceoftheGovernment.Hesaidthatwehadpracticallynochanceofmaking
goodinourNorwegianexpeditionunlesswewereabletohaveairbasestherewhichwouldenableustoputour
fightersintotheairinordertocounteracttheverydestructiveeffectoftheGermanaeroplanes.Butweknewthere
werenoairbasesavailable.Weknewtheywereinthehandsoftheenemy.
Therighthon.Gentlemanadmitsthat.HesaysthattheGovernmentknewbeforehandthattherewerenoairbases
unlesstheywerecapturedfromtheenemy.HeevenintimatesthattheobjectoftheTrondheimexpeditionwasto
captureanairbase.Inthatcaseweoughttohavehadpickedmen,andnotakindofascratchteam.Weoughttohave
senttheverybestmenavailable,especiallyaswecouldnotsendthewholeofourforcesinthefirstinstalment.The
firstinstalmentoughttohavebeenpickedmen,becausetheGermanshadpickedmen,asisgenerallyaccepted.We
sentthere,Ithink,aTerritorialBrigadewhichhadnothadverymuchtraining.Theywereveryyoungmen,butthey
weretheadvancepartyofanexpeditionaryforcewhichhadtoaccomplishataskuponwhichthesuccessofthewhole
forcedepended.WeoughtalsotohavehadcombinedactionbetweentheArmyandtheNavy.Wehadneither.We
gambledonthechanceofgettingairbases.Wedidnottakeanymeasuresthatwouldguaranteesuccess.Thisvital
expedition,whichwouldhavemadeavastdifferencetothiscountry'sstrategicalposition,andaninfinitedifferenceto
herprestigeintheworld,wasmadedependentuponthishalfprepared,halfbakedexpeditionaryforce,withoutany
combinationatallbetweentheArmyandtheNavy.Therecouldnothavebeenamoreseriouscondemnationofthe
wholeactionoftheGovernmentinrespectofNorway.TheyknewperfectlywellthattheGermanswerepreparingfor
araidonsomeadjoiningcountry,probablyintheBalkans,anditisaseverecondemnationofthemthattheyshould
havegambledinthisway.Therighthon.Gentlemanspokeaboutthegallantryofourmen,andweareallequally
proudofthem.Itthrillsustoreadthestories.Allthemoreshamethatweshouldhavemadefoolsofthem.
Now,thesituationisagraveoneIagreewithwhatwassaidaboutthatbythePrimeMinisteranditwouldbea
fatalerroronourpartnottoacknowledgeit.InsuchexperienceasIhavehadofwardirectionIhavenevertriedto
minimisetheextentofadisaster.Itrytogetthefacts,becauseunlessyoureallyfacethefactsyoucannotovercome
thedifficultiesandrestoretheposition.Thereisnocase,inmyjudgment,forpanic.Isaythatdeliberately,aftera
gooddealofreflection,butthereisagravecaseforpullingourselvestogether.Wecannotdothatunlesswetellthe
countrythefacts.Theymustrealisethemagnitudeofourjeopardy.WehavetwoimmenseEmpiresfederatedinthe
struggleforliberty,thetwogreatestEmpiresintheworld,theBritishEmpireandtheFrenchEmpire,withalmost
inexhaustibleresourcesbutnoteasilymobilised,noteasilyroused,especiallyours.
YouarenotgoingtorousetheBritishEmpirebecauseyouwillhavetodoitnotmerelyinBritainbutthroughout
theworldtoputforththewholeofitsstrengthunlessanduntilyoutellitthefactsandrealitiesoftheperilthat
confrontsit.Atthecostofunpleasantness,Iamgoingtodothat,notwithaviewtoterrifyingthemorspreading
dismayandconsternation,butwithaviewtorousingrealactionandnotshamactionsuchaswehavehad.Itisnouse
sayingthatthebalanceofadvantageisinourfavour,oraddingupthenumbersofshipssunkoneitherside.Thatkind
ofpettycashbalancesheetisnotthethingtolookat.Therearemoreseriousrealitiesthanthat.
Firstofall,wearestrategicallyinaverymuchworsepositionthanwewerebefore.Noticethosewords,"strategically
better,""strategicallyworse,"becausevictoryordefeatmaydependupontheapplicationofthosetwowords.The

greatesttriumphofthisextraordinarymanHitlerhasbeenthathehassucceededinputtinghiscountryintoan
infinitelybetterstrategicalpositiontowagewarthanhispredecessorsdidin1914,andbywhathehasdonenowhe
hasincreasedhisownadvantagesandhehasputusintogreaterjeopardy.LetusfaceitlikemenofBritishblood.
Graverperilsthanthishavebeenfoughtthroughinthepast.Letusfaceitjustlookatit.CzechoSlovakia,thatspear
head,aimedattheheartofGermany,broken.AmillionofthefinesttroopsinEuropeofaverywelleducatedraceof
freemen,allgone.SuchadvantageasthereisinCzechoSlovakia,withitsgreatlinesoffortificationsanditsSkoda
works,whichturnedoutthefinestartilleryinthe1914war,areinthehandsofHitler.Thatisonestrategicadvantage
whichwehavehandedovertotheenemy.
Whatisthenext?Theposition[Interruption.]Youwillhavetolistentoit,eithernoworlateron.Hitlerdoesnot
holdhimselfanswerabletothewhipsorthePatronageSecretary.Whatisthesecond?Thesecondisthatyouhada
FrancoRussianAlliance,negotiatedbyanoldfriendofmine,M.Barthou,bywhichRussiawastocometotheaidof
CzechoSlovakiaifFrancedid.TherewouldhavebeenatwofrontwarforGermany.Sheknowswhatthatmeans,
becauseshehaditbefore.Thatdoorisclosed.WesentathirdclassclerktonegotiatewiththePrimeMinisterofthe
greatestcountryintheworld,whileGermanysentherForeignSecretarywitharesplendentretinue.Thatdooris
closed.OilinRussianshipsisnowcomingacrosstheBlackSeafortheaeroplanesofGermany.Strategically,that
wasanimmensevictoryfortheNaziGovernment.
ThethirdRumania.Wehavetriedtoformonebigsyndicate,butGermanyhasbeentherestarting,notone
syndicate,butlittlesyndicateshereandtheretodeveloptheland,toincreaseproductionofworkandtogiveherall
sortsofmachinery.ShehaspracticallygotRumaniainherhandsandifshedidnothaveitinherhandsamonthago,
bythisfailureinNorwayyouhavehandedoverRumania.Whatelse?Spain.Iamhopingthatmyfearsaboutthatwill
notprovetrue.NowyouhaveScandinaviaandNorway,whichwereoneofthegreatstrategicpossibilitiesofthewar,
andtheyareinGermanhands.ItisnousecriticisingSweden.SwedenisnowbetweenGermanyontheleftand
Germanyontheright.[Hon.Members:"Russia!"]No,Germany.SheisbetweenGermanyinNorwayandGermany
ontheBaltic.WhatrighthavewetocriticisethelittlePowers?Wepromisedtorescuethem.Wepromisedtoprotect
them.WeneversentanaeroplanetoPoland.WeweretoolateinNorway,althoughwehadthewarningofshipsinthe
Balticandbargescrammedwithtroops.Theyhavetothinkaboutthemselves.TheydonotwantGermantroopson
theirsoil,andtheyaredefinitelyfrightened,andforgoodreasons.Justseewhatitmeansstrategically.Itdeprivesus
ofapossibleopeninginthatdirection.Thathasgone.ItbringstheGermanaeroplanesandsubmarines200miles
nearerourcoast.Itdoesmorethanthat.ThereistheopeningupoftheBaltic.Iventuretosaythatthatwillbe
considered,inregardtotheprotectionofourtradeandcommerce.Itisagravemenace.Strategically,weareinfinitely
worseoff.
Withregardtoourprestige,canyoudoubtthatthathasbeenimpaired?YouhaveonlytoreadthefriendlyAmerican
paperstofindout,highlyfriendlypapersthatwerebackingusupthroughthickandthin,inacountrywhichwaspro
Ally.Idonotknowwhetherhon.MemberseverlistentotheBritishBroadcastingCorporation'srelayoftheAmerican
commentatorMr.RaymondGramSwing.Heisveryremarkable.HegaveanaccountofthechangeinAmerican
opinion.HesaidthatwhathashappenedwasahammerblowtoAmericans.Theywereperfectlydazed.Beforethat,
theywereconvincedthatvictorywasgoingtobewonbytheAllies,andtheyhadneveranydoubtaboutit.Thisisthe
firstdoubtthathasenteredtheirminds,andtheysaid,"ItwillbeuptoustodefendDemocracy."
Thentherearetheneutralcountries.WepromisedPolandwepromisedCzechoSlovakia.Wesaid:"Wewilldefend
yourfrontiersifyouwillrevisethem."TherewasapromisetoPoland,toNorway,andtoFinland.Ourpromissory
notesarenowrubbishonthemarket.[Hon.Members:"Shame."]Tellmeonecountryatthepresentmoment,one
neutralcountry,thatwouldbepreparedtostandupandfinanceusonamerepromisefromus?Whatistheuseofnot
facingfacts?
Mr.GeorgeBalfour(Hampstead)WeofferedaidtoFinland,anditwasnotaccepted.NorwayandSwedenwereasked
fortherighttogothroughandhelpFinland,buttheywouldnothelpusandindefaultofpledgestotheLeagueof
NationswouldnotgiveustheopportunitytohelpFinland.Therewasnopromiseatall.

Mr.LloydGeorgeIcannotreopenthatmatter.[Hon.Members:"Oh."]Iamquitepreparedtodoso,butthefactsare
thatwedidnotcarryoutourpromisetoFinland.
Mr.BalfourWhatpromise?
Mr.LloydGeorgeThefactswereallgivenbyanotherhon.Member.
Mr.BalfourGivethemyourselfnow.
Mr.LloydGeorgeThehon.MemberforStocktononTees(Mr.HaroldMacmillan)gavethewholeofthefacts,and
theyhaveneverbeenansweredyet.Thatisthesituationwithregardtoourstrategicalposition.Whatistheuseof
denyingit?Itisoneofthefactsthatwehavetoface.Wehavetorestorethatprestigeintheworldifwearetowinthis
war.Thereisalsothefactthatthestateofourpreparationsisknowntotheworld.Westartedthesepreparationsfive
yearsago,in1935.In1935apromiseofrearmamentwasmadein1936activeproposalsweresubmittedtothis
HouseandwerepassedwithoutaDivision.TheGovernmentsaidtheywouldcommitusto1,500,000,000.Ifthey
hadaskedformoreandhadsaidthatitwasnecessary,therewasnopartyinthisHousewhichwouldhavechallenged
it.[Interruption.]Ifanypartyhadchallengedit,youhadyourmajority.Whathasbeendone?Isthereanyoneinthis
Housewhowillsaythatheissatisfiedwiththespeedandefficiencyofthepreparationsinanyrespectforair,for
Army,yea,forNavy?Everybodyisdisappointed.Everybodyknowsthatwhateverwasdonewasdonehalfheartedly,
ineffectively,withoutdriveandunintelligently.ForthreeorfouryearsIthoughttomyselfthatthefactswithregardto
GermanywereexaggeratedbytheFirstLord,becausethethenPrimeMinisternotthisPrimeMinistersaidthat
theywerenottrue.TheFirstLordwasrightaboutit.Thencamethewar.Thetempowashardlyspeededup.There
wasthesameleisurelinessandinefficiency.Willanybodytellmethatheissatisfiedwithwhatwehavedoneabout
aeroplanes,tanks,guns,especiallyantiaircraftguns?IsanyoneheresatisfiedwiththestepswetooktotrainanArmy
tousethem?Nobodyissatisfied.Thewholeworldknowsthat.Andhereweareintheworststrategicpositionin
whichthiscountryhaseverbeenplaced.
SirPatrickHannon(Birmingham,Moseley)Wehaveourseapower.
Mr.J.J.Davidson(Glasgow,Maryhill)Andyourdividends.
Mr.LloydGeorgeIwishwehaduseditinsomepartsofNorway.IdonotthinkthattheFirstLordwasentirely
responsibleforallthethingsthathappenedthere.
Mr.ChurchillItakecompleteresponsibilityforeverythingthathasbeendonebytheAdmiralty,andItakemyfull
shareoftheburden.
Mr.LloydGeorgeTherighthon.Gentlemanmustnotallowhimselftobeconvertedintoanairraidsheltertokeepthe
splintersfromhittinghiscolleagues.Butthatistheposition,andwemustfaceit.IagreewiththePrimeMinisterthat
wemustfaceitasapeopleandnotasaparty,norasapersonalissue.ThePrimeMinisterisnotinapositiontomake
hispersonalityinthisrespectinseparablefromtheinterestsofthecountry.
ThePrimeMinisterWhatisthemeaningofthatobservation?Ihaveneverrepresentedthatmypersonality[Hon.
Members:"Youdid!"]Onthecontrary,Itookpainstosaythatpersonalitiesoughttohavenoplaceinthesematters.
Mr.LloydGeorgeIwasnotherewhentherighthon.Gentlemanmadetheobservation,buthedefinitelyappealedona
questionwhichisagreatnational,Imperialandworldissue.Hesaid,"Ihavegotmyfriends."Itisnotaquestionof
whoarethePrimeMinister'sfriends.Itisafarbiggerissue.ThePrimeMinistermustrememberthathehasmetthis
formidablefoeofoursinpeaceandinwar.Hehasalwaysbeenworsted.Heisnotinapositiontoappealonthe
groundoffriendship.Hehasappealedforsacrifice.Thenationispreparedforeverysacrificesolongasithas
leadership,solongastheGovernmentshowclearlywhattheyareaimingatandsolongasthenationisconfidentthat
thosewhoareleadingitaredoingtheirbest.IsaysolemnlythatthePrimeMinistershouldgiveanexampleof
sacrifice,becausethereisnothingwhichcancontributemoretovictoryinthiswarthanthatheshouldsacrificethe

sealsofoffice.
6.10p.m.
Mr.Lambert(SouthMolton)Theconcludingobservationsoftherighthon.Gentlemanpresentedadirectchallenge.I
happentohavebeenintheHouseofCommonsnearlyaslongashehas.IfIthoughtthatmyvotetonightwouldput
thePrimeMinisterout,Icertainlywouldnotgiveit.[Interruption.]
Mr.DeputySpeaker(SirDennisHerbert)Interruptionsarenotinorderiftheyareirrelevant.
Mr.A.Bevan(EbbwVale)InterruptionsfromwhichsideoftheHouse?GreatresentmenthasbeenfeltintheHouse
yesterdayandtodayconcerningwhathon.MembersinallpartsoftheHouseconsidertheabsenceofimpartiality
fromtheChair.
Mr.DeputySpeakerThehon.MemberknowsthatthereisaproperParliamentaryprocedureforraisingthesematters,
andhemustnotdoitnow.
Mr.BevanAnditwillbefollowed.Yousaid,Mr.DeputySpeaker,thatyoucouldnotallowirrelevantremarkstobe
madeinthecourseofDebate.IsubmitithasalwaysbeenatraditionofthisHousetoallowinterjectionsiftheyarenot
interferenceswiththefreedomofspeechandnotdeliberatelybarracking.Iwouldaskyou,Sir,toindicatean
interruptionwhichyouregardedasirrelevant.Itwaspertinent,butnotirrelevant.
Mr.LambertAsanoldMemberofthisHouse,mayIbeallowedtosaythatthesescenesdonotaddtoitsdignity?I
remembersowellwhenthelatewarended,andfollowingtherighthon.GentlemantoSt.Margaret'sChurchon11th
November,1918,togivethanksforthevictory,whenhesaid,"Thiswaristhewartoendallwars."Ihadhopedso.
ThiseventIsayitinallsincerityisaterribleeventinmylifeaswellasinthelifeofeveryhon.Memberopposite.
Donotletusmakeanymistaketherighthon.Gentlemanisrightinthisweshallhavetomakemanysacrifices,far
moresacrificesthanwehavemadeasyet.ButIagreethatthereisnocauseforpanic.Letustakethelastwar.Inthe
firsteightmonthsofthelastwarwhatwastheposition?Belgiumwasoverrun,theNorthEastFrontierofFrancewas
occupied,FrancehadlostamagnificentArmy.TheBritishExpeditionaryForcehadbeenhurledbackandbadly
mauled.Also,therewasthebattleofTannenberg,andtherewastheshortageofshells.Allthesethingshappened.
WhatwastheansweroftheHouseofCommons?
ViscountessAstor(Plymouth,Sutton)TheychangedtheGovernment.
Mr.LambertMightIgivetheanswer?TheNobleLadyisnearlyalwaysinterrupting.Whathappenedwasthatthe
ConservativepartyjoinedwiththeLiberalpartyinaCoalitionGovernment.WhenIheardtheattackwhichwasmade
justnowbytherighthon.GentlemantheMemberforSouthHackney(Mr.H.Morrison),Ithoughthowmuchbetterit
wouldhavebeenifhehadsaid,"Herearemistakeswewillcomealongandhelpyou."Thatisthespiritthatwillwin
thiswarnottheseDebatesintheHouseofCommons,whereeverypassionisaroused.Iamsorry,indeed,thatthe
LabourleadersdidnotoffertheirhelptotheGovernment,becausetheseconstantpolemics,theseconstantattacks
uponthePrimeMinister,mustbeweakeningourwareffort.Afterall,myrighthon.FriendisPrimeMinister,andhe
hasthedirectionofthewar.[Interruption.]Idonotwanttogetintoacontroversywithmyrighthon.Friendthe
MemberforCarnarvonBoroughs(Mr.LloydGeorge).HeandIareoldfriends,althoughwehavehadourdifferences.
Mr.MacLaren(Burslem)Well,donotlookatoneanother.
Mr.LambertIfthehon.Memberwillchangeplaceswithmyrighthon.Friend,Ishallnotbeabletolookathim.I
agreethatthisisamostserioussituation.IsaytotheLabourMembersthattheyarenothelpingintheconductofthe
warwhentheycontinuallysnipeatthePrimeMinisterandhisfriends.Wearetoldthatweareall"Yesmen."Iamnot
a"Yesman."Iamasindependentasanymanoverthere.Ifoughtagainsttherighthon.MemberforCarnarvon
Boroughsonce,whenhesenthiscouponmanagainstme,andIamgladtosaythatIbeathim.ButIhaveagenuine
apprehensionforthefutureofthecountry.TheseacrimoniousDebatesareunderminingthestrengthofthecountryby

underminingconfidenceinthosewhohavethedirectionofaffairs.Whatsuggestionhasbeenmadeforthechangeof
Governmentwhichisproposed?WhatsortofGovernmentissuggested?WhoistobePrimeMinister?Afterall,this
istheHouseofCommons,democraticallyelected,andIaskhon.MemberswhomtheysuggestasPrimeMinister,
otherthanmyrighthon.FriendthepresentPrimeMinister.
ThinkwhathashappenedinthisHousethisafternoon.QuestionshavebeenaskedoftheSecretaryofStateforAirand
ofotherMinisters.IstheresuchathingasthatinGermany?DoesanybodyimaginethatHitlerisbeingcross
examinedaboutthescuttlingoftheGrafSpeeorthedestructionofthedestroyersatNarvik?Hitlerwillnotpermit
anythingtounderminehisauthorityand,therefore,weshouldnotdoanythingtounderminetheauthorityofthemen
whoarerunningthewarforus.IlistenedintheearlydaysofthewartoagentlemanwhowascalledLordHawHaw.
Hetriedtosapourconfidence.Thatiswhathasbeenhappeningtoday.Dr.Goebbelscouldnothavedonebetterthan
theHouseofCommonshasdone.Itisnogoodmincingmattersthesituationofthecountryisfartooseriousforthat.
WehavehadasetbackinNorway.Butisitcomparabletowhathappenedin1914,andintheearlypartof1915?Iask
hon.Memberstocomebacktoasenseofproportion.Wemustrecognisethatwehaveatremendoustaskbeforeus,
but,judgingfromtheHouse,andfromthepoliticalspeechesthataremadehereandtheyarepoliticalspeeches
onewouldnotimaginethatwewerefightingaverypowerfulfoe.Ideprecatethiseasyassumptionofvictory.So
many"peaceplanners"havebeengoingabout."Peaceplanning"meansthatwearecertainofvictory.Ihatetoothe
phrase,"Britainloseseverybattlebutthelast."Suchboastingasthatiswicked.
TheGovernmenthavebeenattacked.Onedoesnotmindthatifthecriticismislegitimate,butIhaveheardallkindsof
attacksthatareanimatednotsomuchbyadesireforthegoodofthecountryasbypoliticalmotives.Ilistenedtothe
speechofmyhon.andgallantFriendtheMemberforNorthPortsmouth(SirR.Keyes)yesterday.Thereisnotamore
gallant,abraver,oramoremodestman,buthisspeechputsthecivilianintodifficulties.Heisanexpert,butthereare
otherexperts.Thedifficultyofacivilianistochoosebetweentheopinionsofexperts,andtodecidewhoseadvice
shouldbefollowed.Myhon.andgallantFriendgotintoverydeeppoliticalwaters.Idonotthinkhenavigatedthem
withthesameskillashedoesthesea.HeputuptotheAdmiraltyaprojectfortakingTrondheim.Areweto
understandthattheAdmiralty,underthedirectionoftheFirstLord,areincapableoftakingarisk?Thatwouldbethe
gravestcondemnationoftheFirstLordandoftheBoardofAdmiralty.DoesanybodysaythattheAdmiraltylacked
courage,orthattheAdmiraltywouldnothavegoneintoTrondheimiftheyhadthoughtitapracticalproposition?
Mr.QuintinHogg(Oxford)Theallegationmadebymyhon.andgallantFriendtheMemberforNorthPortsmouth(Sir
R.Keyes)wasnotthattheAdmiraltysaidthatitwasimpossible,butthattheysaidthatitwasunnecessary.That
allegationhasneverbeendenied.
Mr.LambertIsubmit,withduedeferencetomyhon.andgallantFriend,thattheAdmiraltyinthismattermustbe
consideredthebestjudges.IftheAdmiraltyarenotcapableoftakingtherightdecision,theFirstLordshouldresign,
andnotthePrimeMinister.WhatwouldhappeninthecountryiftheFirstLordresignedbecauseitwasallegedthathe
wasinefficient?Thatistheallegationthereisnowayoutofit.IhavehadagooddealofservicewiththeFirstLord.I
shouldsay,first,thatheisagentlemanheneverbearsmalice.Secondly,heisoneofthebravestofmenhewilltake
anyrisk.Therefore,toaccusehimofcowardiceisbeyondanythingthatshouldhavebeensaidinthisHouse.I
candidlyconfessthatIhavewatchedthisNorwegianbusiness,andIdonotunderstandit.[Interruption.]No,Idonot
understandit.Ifhon.Gentlemenoppositecangiveanyelucidation,Ishouldbeglad,becausenonehasbeengiven
heretoday.TheGermanssecretlyseizedsixportswiththeirlandingfacilitiestheyseizedalltheaerodromesandall
theoffices,withouttheNorwegiansknowinganythingaboutit.Idonotthinkthatalltheblameshouldbeputonthe
Admiralty.TheNorwegiansshouldhaveknown.Whydidtheynot?
Mr.MacLarenThispointseemstomenottohavebeenquiteappreciatedbytheSecretaryofStateforAirhimself.It
isasclearasnoondaythatwhentheBritishGovernmentintendedtosendaidtoFinland,theGermansthenprepared
theircounteraction,andthatwas,byallmeansanddevices,toseizetheNorwegianports.Immediatelyafterwards,
whenwecalledoffthesupplyoftroopsforFinlandandproceededtodisbandthem,theGermanswentsteadilyon
withthisscheme.Thatiswhathappened,andthatiswhytheyarethere.

Mr.LambertIamverygladtohavethisinformationfromthehon.Member.Frankly,IamamazedthattheNorwegian
authoritiesdidnotknowofthis.
Mr.MacLarenIgottheinformationfromNorwegians.ThatiswhyIamgivingittotheHousenow.
Mr.LambertIagreethatthewithdrawalfromNorwayhasbeenashocktothiscountry.Icannothelpthinkingthat
expectationswereraisedtoohigh.TheywereraisedevenbytheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,whosaidthatthe
invasionofNorwaywasastrategicblunderonthepartofGermany,andbytheSecretaryofStateforAir.Butitisa
setbackfromwhichwecanrecover,andfromwhichweshallrecover.IlikeQueenVictoria'sattitudeduringtheBoer
War."Thereisnoquestionofdefeatinthishousehold,"shesaid.Thatshouldbeourattitudetoday.
Myrighthon.FriendtheLeaderoftheLiberalOppositionsuggestedasmallerCabinet.Ihavethoughtaboutthese
thingsagooddeal.ItisnotaquestionofthesizeoftheCabinet,butofthequalityoftheCabinet.Itdependsuponthe
mencomposingit.WehadasmallWarCabinetduringthepremiershipoftherighthon.GentlemantheMemberfor
CarnarvonBoroughs,butwedidnotescapethetragedyofPasschendael,northatterriblesetbackon21stMarch,
1918.
SirStanleyReed(Aylesbury)NortheCalaisConference,northeChampagneoffensivein1917.
Mr.LambertNodoubtmyhon.Friendcangivemanymoreexamples,butIhavementionedonlythesetwo.Itisnota
questionofasmallCabinetbutofthequalityoftheCabinet.Therefore,itseemstomethatthosewhoadvocatea
smallCabinetfreefromalldepartmentalresponsibilitiesarereallybarkingupthewrongtree,becauseitis
unpracticableforaWarCabinettogiveanorderunlesstheServicemembersthinkitiswise.Idealwiththequestion
ofasmallWarCabinet,becauseIthinkfartoogreatemphasishasbeenplaceduponit.Wehearallthesehigh
soundingphrases.Ireadoneyesterdayinthepaperwhichsaid,"Wemusthavetheevolutionofabold,imaginative
strategicalplandesignedtobringtheenemytohisknees."Iknowthesefinewords.Theydonotcutanyice.They
reallydonotcarryusanyfurther,andwemustnotforgetinthisconnectionthatwehaveanAllyinFrance.Sheisnot
negligible.Franceisagreatnationandhasextremelyablemilitarycommanders.Theyareinclosetouchwithour
peoplehere.Therefore,whenwetalkofevolvingthesestrategicalconceptionswehavetoconsulttheFrenchpeople.
Igatherthattherighthon.GentlemantheMemberforHillsborough(Mr.Alexander)istospeakinthisDebate.Ido
askhimtorisetothelevelofagreatopportunity.Lethimoffertheservicesofhimselfandhispartytothe
Governmentoftheday.Letthemseewhethertheycannotcometosomearrangement,forIamextremely
apprehensiveabouttheseconstantattacksuponourMinistersandthosewhodirectaffairs.Therewasoneitemof
newsinthismorning'spaperthatperhapsmayhaveescapedthenoticeofagoodmanyMembers.Ireaditwithsome
interest.ItwasthatthesterlinginNewYorkafreemarkethasfallentothreedollars40cents.Thatisavery
gravesituation.Everythingthatwebuywillbeverymuchdearer,andthereforedonotletanybodythinkthatI
underestimatetheeffortsthatwehavetomake.Iwillconcludewiththesewords.Ifweareunitedanddetermined,and
ifthereisaGodinhighheaven,thenHitlerandhisassociatesmustbepunishedfortheagonythattheyhaveinflicted
uponEurope.
6.34p.m.
SirStaffordCripps(Bristol,East)Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforSouthMolton(Mr.Lambert),inputting
forwardthecaseformaintainingthepresentGovernmentinoffice
Mr.LambertNo,itwastheotherwayabout.Ihaveaskedyoutocomein.
SirS.CrippsHeaskedthattheGovernment,substantiallyunderthesameleadership,shouldhavecertainaccretions,
thattheMadHatter'steapartyshouldhaveanothersession,andhefailstorealisethatyoucannotidentifythe
leadershipofaparticulargovernmentwiththeinterestsofthecountry.Hetakestheviewapparentlythatitisbetter
thatthatleadershipshouldremaininpowerintact,whateveritseffectmaybeuponthechancesofvictory,thanthatan
opportunityshouldbegivenforpropagandainGermanybyanattempttodisplacealeadershipwhichmanyofus

believeprofoundlywillberesponsibleforourdefeat.ThatistheissuewhichthisHousehastoface.Ifweacceptthe
responsibilitythatfallsuponus,notasrepresentinganyparticularsectionorevenconstituency,butasaHouseasa
whole,asrepresentingthewholepeopleofthiscountrytoday,wecannotallowourselvestoidentifyeither
personalitiesorparticularleaderswiththeinterestsofthecountry.
Mr.LambertMyspeechdidnotdealwithpersonalities,andmysoleconcernisforthewelfareofthecountry.
SirS.CrippsWhattherighthon.Gentlemanhassaid,andwhatisconstantlysaid,isthatyoumustnotattackthe
Governmentbecauseitwillendangerthecountry.Therearetimeswhentheonlysafetyofthecountryisattackupon
theGovernment,anditwillbeagravederelictionofdutyonthepartoftheMembersofthisHouseif,beinghonestly
convincedthatitisnecessarytochallengetheissue,theytakenostepstodoit.ThatiswhyIregardtheDebatethat
wearehavingtodayasthemostmomentousthathasevertakenplaceinthehistoryofParliament.
BeforeIcometodealwitheventsinNorwayIwanttogivetheHouseaveryshortimpressionofsomeviewsI
gatheredwhileIwasaway,upononeparticularpoint,which,Ithink,ismaterialsofarasthematterunderdiscussion
isconcerned.Itisaperfectlytriteandtruesayingthattheonlookersoftenseemostofthegame,andtherehavebeen,
especiallyinAmerica,butinallneutralcountries,manyverykeenobserversoftheprogressofthewarinEurope.
Theyareperhapsnotsooppressedorencouragedbyimmediateeventsasarethosewhoarehereintimatelytakingpart
indaytodayaffairs.HoweverisolationisttheAmericansmaybeuponthesubjectofparticipationorassistanceinthis
war,theyareatpresentstronglyproBritishintheirsympathiesasawhole.Butthathasmadethemallthemorekeen
observersoftheconductofthiswarandhasdevelopedinthemaverysensitivejudgmentastohowthewarhasbeen
conducted.
UponcertainpointsIfound,incontactwithAmericansofeverysortandkind,almostunanimousagreement.
Uniformly,theytaketheviewthattheeffortsofthiscountryhavebeenillorganisedandhavebeenpermeatedwitha
spiritofindecisionandalackofboldnessthatwouldseemtoariseoutofthefailuretoappreciatetheextreme
seriousnessofthewarsituation.IdonotthinkthatImetanybody,excepting,ofcourse,Britishofficialsandmembers
oftheAmericanadministrationwhoselipsweresealeduponsuchmatters,whohadagoodwordtosayfortheBritish
Governmentasatpresentconstituted.OfthePrimeMinisterandtheChancelloroftheExchequertheywerescathing
intheircriticism,andthequestionthatwasputtomemorethananyotherwhileIwasinAmericawas,Whywasit
thattheBritishpeople,iftheydesiredtowinthiswar,didnotbringaboutachangeofGovernment?Certainlythey
regardsuchachangeasessential,andmeasurethenecessityinweeksandinmonths.
SirWilliamDavison(Kensington,South)Whatreasonsdidtheygive?
SirS.CrippsIfthehon.Gentlemanisnotawareofthereasonsheoughttobe.
SirW.DavisonIamnotawareofthem.
SirS.CrippsIamtellingyou.IfyouwillapplytoMr.StimsonhewillgiveyouthereasonasregardstheChancellor
oftheExchequerandifyouapplytomanyotherstheywillgiveyouthehistoryfromthetimeofMunichonwards
aboutthePrimeMinister,andthesearefullandsufficientreasons.
SirW.DavisonLettheHouseofCommonsknowwhattheyare.
SirS.CrippsIamtryingtoinformthehon.GentlemanandotherswhatAmericanopinionreallyis.Theyarecertainly
oftheview,andthiswasmadeclearbytheAmericanPress,thattheprestigeofthisGovernmenthassufferedanother
seriousblowintheeventswhichhavetakenplaceinNorway.Thesecriticismsweresomarkedlyuniversalin
Americathatitwasabsolutelyimpossibleforanybodytooverlookthem.Whenonereturnstothiscountryafteran
absenceofsomemonths,tryinginthemeantimetoobservefromadistancethedevelopmentofevents,oneisatonce
struckbythedepressingatmospherewhichprevailsinthiscountry.IntheFarEast,forinstance,insuchaplaceas
China,howeverdifficultmaterialmattersmaybeforthesepeople,onesensesanintensefeelingofhopeandoflife.In
thiscountrythereseemstobenoconvictionofsuccessforajustcause.[Hon.Members:"Oh."]Adesire,butno

conviction.Thereisdoubtanddespondencywidelyexpressedonallsides.Complaintsandgrumblingsareheard
everywhereanduncertaintyreigns,andnoone,noteventhePrimeMinister,seemstobeconfidentofourabilityto
meetthefurtherattacksofanenemywhoisnowregardedashavingapermanentinitiative.
SirW.DavisonOnapointofOrder,Mr.Speaker.AftertheappealwhichhasbeenmadebythePrimeMinister,
pointingoutthatwearefightingforourlives,isitrightforaMemberontheFrontBenchoppositetosaythatthereis
doubtanddespondencyinthiscountrywhenheknowsthatitisuntrue?
Mr.SpeakerThatisnotapointofOrder,butamatterofopinion.
SirS.CrippsIappreciateperfectlytherighthon.Gentleman'sfeelingsonthismatter,butitisabsolutelyvitalthat
peopleinthisHouseshouldrealisewhatisbeingfeltinthecountry,andtheyarelullingthemselvesintoafalsesense
ofsecurityiftheybelievethatthepeopleofthiscountryarefeelinghappyaboutthepresentsituation.Noonewill
convincemethatthespirithasgoneoutoftheBritishpeople,butitisobviousthatundecidedandhalfhearted
leadershiphascreatedasenseoffrustrationinthepeoplewhereboldleadershipwouldgiveconfidenceandcourage.
InalmosteveryDepartmentoftheGovernmentthesamefatalindecisionandlackofrealisationoftheurgencyofthe
situationseemtorule.Indeed,itishardlypossibletodetectinsomecaseswhethertheGovernmenthaveyetmadeup
theirmindthatthiscountrymustbeorganisedforvictoryregardlessofallcosts.Thereareconstantcallsmadeby
Ministersforgreatandunitedeffortsbythepeople,buttheyhavewhollyfailedtoorganisethosegreatandunited
efforts.Whetheritisforeignpolicy,supply,strategyoranyothermatter,thereexiststodayanopportunistindecision,
nowapparentlyfavouringonelineofpolicyandnowfavouringanotherlineofpolicy,anditisthishesitationand
vacillationwhichisparalysingtheeffortsofourcountry,andwhichisfataltoourchancesofvictory.
Mr.Radford(Rusholme)Willthehon.andlearnedGentlemangiveussomesamplesofthisvacillationandthis
changinginsteadofmerelytalkingvaguewords?
SirS.CrippsIproposetodothatinaveryfewmomentsifthehon.Gentlemanwillgivemetime.Now,Mr.Speaker,
theGovernmentseemtobeinastateofalmostperpetualfearofsomething.Theyaresometimesafraidbecauseofthe
wickedefficiencyofourenemyandaresometimesfrightenedbysomepossibleactionthatmaybetakenbyaneutral
oreven,indeed,ofvestedinterestsinthiscountryitself.Theyaredodgingalongacircuitousroute,attempting
somehoworothertoavoidtheobjectsoftheirfear.ThereisonlyonefearwhichoughttoinfluencetheGovernmentin
thesecircumstances,andthatisthefearofBritishdemocracy,whichoughttodrivethemintoboldandresoluteaction.
TherecentcampaigninNorwayis,Ibelieve,absolutelytypicaloftheirindecision.Ibelievetheirprimeblunderin
thiscampaigngoesfurtherbackthanthetimeoftheGermanoccupationofthecoastalportsinNorway.
TherearetwopossiblepoliciesopentoaGovernmentfightingthiswarinthepresentcircumstances.Firstofall,to
observestrictlyallneutralrightsandtheobligationsofinternationallaw,withaviewtodoingwhattheyconceiveto
berightandinthehopethatbysodoingtheywillwinthesympathyoftheneutralsandperhapsgaintheirmoralor,
even,materialsupportand,second,todescendtothelevelofourenemyandmeethimwithhisownweapons,witha
completedisregardofallinternationalstandardsofbehaviourthathavehithertobeenacceptedasreasonableand
necessaryforacivilisedworld.Theonethingthatisimpossibleinthecircumstancesistoattempttocombinethese
twopolicies.Ifsomehalfwaypolicyisfollowedthenwemisstheadvantagesofthefirstandfailtoreapthe
advantagesofthesecond.TheNorwegianproblemwasoneofcuttingoffwhatwerightlyregardedasoneof
Germany'smostvitalsourcesofsupplytheSwedishironore.Butjustasweregarditasavitalmattertous,so
obviouslymusttheGermansregarditasavitalmattertothemthattheyshoulddotheirutmosttocontinuethat
supply.Itwasnotaquestionofmerelystoppingupsomesmallholeinthenetoftheblockadeitwasaquestionof
absolutelyfirstclassimportancetobothsides.
OurGovernmentafterprolongedhesitationandIwouldpointoutthattheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,inhisspeech
on11thApril,drewattentiontoourcareforinternationalobligationscametotheconclusionthattheymustabandon
thefirstpolicythatofobservingstrictlytherightsofneutralsandasaresultdecidedtolayminefieldsin
Norwegianterritorialwaters.Thatwasavitallyimportantdecisiononamajorquestionofpolicyasregardsthe

conductofthewholewarandnotasregardsNorwayalone.Whetheritwasrightorwrongitisnotatthemoment
materialtoinquire,butthelayingofthemineswasjustasmuchaninfringementoftheneutralrightsofNorwayasthe
sendingofshipsintotheNorwegianfiords,orlandinggunsonNorwegiansoil.
Itisquiteidletoadopttheargumentthatitwasonlyalittleinfringement,orthatwewerecompelledtodoit,or,asthe
FirstLordsaidinhisspeech,thatinthelastwartheNorwegianswerepersuadedtodoitbytheAlliedPowers.Sofar
asneutralsandtherestoftheworldareconcerneditwasanabandonmentbyGreatBritainofthepolicyofobserving
strictlytherightsofneutrals.ThatcertainlywastheviewtakeninAmericawhenIwasthere,andGerman
propaganda,whichisahundredtimesmoreefficientthanours,especiallyinneutralcountries,soonconvincedpeople
thatthiswasthefact.ThePrimeMinister,inhisspeechyesterday,saidthatnoonewouldsuggestthatweshouldhave
goneintoBergenorTrondheim.Isuggesthecouldneverhavemadethatremarkifhehadprefacedhisstoryofthe
accountoftheNorwegianincidentbythedecisionoftheCabinettoinfringeNorwegianneutrality.Apparentlythe
Governmentmusthavethoughtthatthatdegreeofaction,thelayingoftheminefields,wouldbesufficienttoachieve
theirpurposeandthattheydidnotwanttogofurtherthantheythoughttheirpurposedemanded.Theytriedto
compromisebetweentwopoliciesandhopedthatinthefaceofHitlertheywouldgetawaywiththecompromise.
Theymusthavefailedwhollyinappreciationofthesortofenemytheywereupagainst.Hitlerwasnotgoingtowatch
hisvitalsuppliesbeingcutoffanddonothingaboutit.ItwasknownthathehadlargeforcesavailableintheBaltic
andinGermanports.Hewaswaitinguntiltheneedandopportunitycametousethem,andtheBritishGovernment
gavehimboth.
ViceAdmiralTaylor(Paddington,South)WerenottheoperationsbyGermanystartedbeforethemineswerelaid?
SirS.CrippsNo,theoperationsbyGermanywerestartedsimultaneouslywiththelayingofthemines.Thatwaswhat
weweretoldbythePrimeMinister.[Hon.Members:"No,"and"Hear,hear."]Thenoticeandthepublicityasregards
thecomingintentionwaslongbefore.Butthehon.andgallantGentlemanneednottroubleaboutdatesHitlerdoes
nottroubleaboutdates.
ViceAdmiralTaylorButthehon.andlearnedGentlemanismakingapointaboutthematter.
SirS.CrippsDirectlyitbecameclearthatweweredeterminedtotakestepstostoptheSwedishoresupplygettingto
Germany,Hitlermadepreparationswithwhichtocounterouraction.Butthehon.andgallantGentlemanwillnever
convincemeandIshallnotconvincehim.Thefatalmistakewastheindecisionofthepolicywewerefollowing.We
triedtocompromiseandasaresultlandedourselvesandNorwayinthepresentsituation.Obviously,Hitlerwouldnot
raisehisstandardtomeetourcompromisingattitude.Hewouldnotcontenthimselfwithmerelycountermining
Norwegianwaters.Whenheactedheactedthoroughlyandquickly.Weshouldhavedonethesame.Oncewemadeup
ourmindsthatitwasnecessarytoabandonourobservanceofinternationallawweoughttohavedoneitthoroughly,
becausethatwastheonlywaywecouldsafeguardourselvesandminimisethedangertoNorway.Ourshipsshould
havebeeninNorwegianfiordsbeforeHitlercouldgetthere,readytomeethim.Ifnecessary,Bergen,Trondheimand
Stavangershouldhavebeentakenunderourprotectionforthetimebeing.
Mr.MacLaren(Burslem)IntheeventoftheBritishgoinginandNorwegianfortsopeningfireonourships,wouldwe
havebeenentitledtofireback,killNorwegiansandthentakeovertheports?
SirS.CrippsThehon.Gentlemandoesnotgetoutofthedilemmabythat.Ihavenotsuggestedthatitwasaright
policytoinfringeNorwegianneutrality.AllIsayisthat,havingdecidedtoinfringeit,youshouldhaveinfringedit
properlyandnotexposedyourselftoeverydangerthatoccurred,especiallysoinviewoftheparticulardifficultiesof
theterrainandtheobviousdangerofairbombardment.Sofarasnotcontemplatingfurtherinfringementsof
Norwegianneutrality,asthePrimeMinistersuggests,itwascriminalcarelessnesstoopenupthissituationofdanger
inScandinaviawithouttakingstepstoguardagainsttheobviousreactionoftheGermans.Itwasthefatalconfusion
betweenthetwopolicieswhichledtothedefeatthatfollowed.Idonotintendtofollowoutwhatmighthavebeen
donetoretrievethesituationexcepttosay,again,thattherewasapparentlyindecisionanddelay.Itwasapparently
intendedattheverybeginningtouseoursurfaceshipstoforcethefiordsatTrondheimandotherpointsonthe

Norwegiancoast,andalsoforthepurposeofcuttingoffGermanreinforcementsfromgettingtoOslo.Isaythis
becauseoftheinternalevidenceofthatfactinthestatementmadebytheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyon11thApril.
Whateverhisintentionmayhavebeeninmakingthatstatementitiscertainlytheinterpretationwhichwasputuponit
bymanyofthemostskilledobservers.LetmeremindtheHouseofoneortwoextractsfromthatspeech.Hesaid:
HitlerhaseffectedwithhisGermanlodgementsofvariousstrengthsatmanypointsoftheNorwegiancoasts,andhe
hasfelledwithasinglehammerblowtheinoffensiveKingdomofDenmark,butweshalltakeallwewantoffthis
Norwegiancoastnow,withanenormousincreaseinthefacilityandintheefficiencyofourblockade.Lateronhe
said:HehasmadeawholeseriesofcommitmentsupontheNorwegiancoastforwhichhewillnowhavetofight,if
necessary,duringthewholesummer,againstPowerspossessingvastlysuperiornavalforcesandabletotransport
themtothescenesofactionmoreeasilythanhecan."[OfficialReport,11thApril,1940col.748,Vol.359.]And
finallyhesaid:AllGermanshipsintheSkaggerakandtheKattegatwillbesunk,andbynightallshipswillbesunk
asopportunityserves."[OfficialReport,11thApril,1940col.750,Vol.359.]Suchclaimscouldnotbe
substantiatedunlesswewerepreparedatthatdate,11thApril,toriskoursurfacevesselsaswellasoursubmarines
andtomakesureoftheeasytransportofourlandforcesbytheactionofsurfacevesselsintheNorwegianfiords.Iam
certainthattheFirstLordintendedsuchactionatthetimeandthattheBritishNavywasthoroughlycapableof
carryingitout.Idonotbelievethatthatspeechwasmereidlebombast.Thesituationhasnotdevelopedaswasthen
forecast,because,inmybelief,therewasachangeinpolicyastotheuseofnavalforces,causedverylikelybythe
fearthatthelossofcapitalships,ifitoccurred,mighttemptMussolinitocomeintothewaragainstus.Ifthatwas
consideredanoverridingmattertheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyshouldneverhavemadethespeechhedidon11th
April.Itislargelythatspeech,broadcastroundtheworld,thathas,inthelightofourwithdrawalfromSouthand
CentralNorway,hadsuchadamagingeffectuponourprestige.TheFirstLordinthatspeechspokeoftheneedfor
unceasingandincreasingvigourtoturntotheutmostprofitthestrategicblunderintowhichourmortalenemyhas
beenprovoked."[OfficialReport,11thApril,1940col.749,Vol.359.]Iwonderifherealisesthesignificance
whichwillbegiventothatword"provoked."Thiswholeepisodedisclosesnot"unceasingandincreasingvigour,"but
hesitationandwavering,andindecision.ItisfarmoreimportantforthiscountryandthisHousethatweshouldlearn
thelessonoftheseevents,thanspendtimeinreviewingwhatmightormightnothavebeendonetosaveasituation
intowhichweshouldneverhaveputourselves.Itisnotsomeisolatedblunderormistakefromwhichweare
suffering.Therewillalwaysbeisolatedmistakes,howevergoodthedirectionofaffairsmaybe.Wearesufferingto
dayfromtheinabilityofourleaderstoconcertandcarrythroughdefinitepolicies,fromalackofleadershipofthe
people.TheGovernmentintheiroftrepeatedpleasforunitymistaketheirownsafetyforthatofthecountry.Noone
canfailtoobservetherisingtideofcriticism,evenintheranksoftheConservativeparty.Thepeopleofthiscountry
arenotafraidofthetruth,norwilltheyholdbackfromanysacrificethatisnecessary.Buttheywillnotstandwasteful
andinefficientadministrationordoubtfulandhesitantleadershipintimesascriticalasthese.
Everyhon.MembertodayhasadutywhichIbelievefartranscendsanypartyloyaltyitisadutytothepeopleofthe
countryasawhole.Toallowpersonalinterestsorpartyloyaltytostandinthewayofnecessarychangesof
governmentisatthepresenttimetoactasatraitortoone'scountry.WeasaHousebeartheultimateresponsibilityto
thepeoplesolongasweposeasademocracy.IfweshirkthatresponsibilitywejointheFifthColumnasHitler's
helpers.ThePrimeMinisterintervenedtodayinordertomakeanappealtotheHousetogivetheGovernmentand
himselftheirsupportinthiscriticaltime.IneverthoughtthatIshouldbepresentinthisHouseofCommonswhenina
momentsograveaPrimeMinisterwouldappealuponpersonalgroundsandpersonalfriendshiptotheloyaltyofthe
HouseofCommons.Itrustthatthoserevealingsentenceswhichhespokewillshowthatheisunfittocarryonthe
governmentofthiscountry.
7.9p.m.
Mr.DuffCooper(Westminster,St.George's)SomeheatandpassionhavebeenengenderedintheDebate,andI
certainlyhopethatnothingIshallsaywilladdtothem.Heatandpassionarethelastthingsthatanybodywouldwish
tobemovinghon.MembersintheHousethisafternoon.Ithinkthattherighthon.MemberforSouthMolton(Mr.
Lambert)wasnotquitewisefromhisownpointofview,whichisgenerallyhisownpointofview,inrecallingtous
thefactsofthelastwar,andemphasisingthatthingshadgoneverymuchworseinaverymuchshortertime.Atabout

thesameperiodinthelastwar,aCoalitionGovernmentwasformed.Manyofushavebeenurgingandhopingfora
trulynationalGovernment,notsincetheoutbreakofwar,butsincethefirstdefeatthedefeatofMunich.Iremember
thepresentSecretaryofStateforDominionAffairsurgingitatthattimewithalltheeloquenceandsincerityathis
command.Morethaneverisitnecessarytoday.Now,itisplain,whatevermaybetherightsandwrongsormeritsof
therighthon.MemberforSouthMolton,thatthepresentOppositionarenotpreparedtoenterintoaCoalition
GovernmentundertheleadershipofthepresentPrimeMinister.Wemaydeplorethatfactornot,butitisafact,andI
donotthinkitisrighttotaunthon.Gentlemenoppositewiththeirunwillingnesstoacceptresponsibilitysimply
becausetheyareunwillingtoacceptacertainleadership.
Iwouldsayfurthertotherighthon.MemberforSouthMoltonthatiftheviewwhichheexpressed,namely,thatwe
shouldnotcriticisetheGovernmentinwartime,hadbeenadheredtothroughoutthelastwar,hewouldnothave
followedtherighthon.GentlemantheMemberforCarnarvonBoroughs(Mr.LloydGeorge),ashetoldushedid,on
11thNovember,acrosstoSt.Margaret's,Westminster,inordertocelebratethevictory.However,myadmirationfor
therighthon.Gentlemanhasalwaysbeentempered,asheiswellaware,withcriticism,andeveninthosedaysofthe
GreatWar,althoughIwasasupporterofneithersectionoftheLiberalparty,butwasthen,asIhopeIshallalways
remain,aConservative,mysupport,suchasitwas,wasgiventothelateLordOxfordratherthantotherighthon.
Gentleman.IhadthepeculiarprivilegeofknowingMr.Asquithpersonally,andthemanyvirtuesandqualitieswhich
everybodyrecogniseshepossessedmadeaverydeepimpressionuponme,andIdeploredthechangeofGovernment
thattookplaceattheendof1916.However,Irecognisethat,forreasonswhichmayhavebeenwrongreasons,which
mayhavebeenunjustreasons,whichmayhavebeenduetoPressclamour,atthattimeMr.Asquithhadcompletely
losttheconfidenceofthecountryIthought,wronglyandIknowthatthroughoutthecountryandthroughoutthe
ArmyinFrancetheadventoftherighthon.Gentlemantopowerhadawonderfullystimulatingeffectuponmorale.
Therefore,Ibelievetheparallelwasnotaveryhappyonefortherighthon.MemberforSouthMoltontodraw.
IwouldnotcriticiseMinistersforusinginthepast,astheyhavedone,thelanguageofoptimism,andIwouldnot
quarrelwiththedictumthatmoreoftenthannotitisunwiseandundesirable,andevenunpatriotic,tosayanythingin
publicorinprivatewhichcandiscouragetheenthusiasmandthehopesofthenation,orcanlessentheirbeliefand
theirfaithintheGovernment.Ninetyninetimesoutof100thatdictumisright,buttodayistheonehundredth
occasion.ThisisoneofthegreatestandmostimportantDebatesinwhichhon.Membershaveevertakenpart,andto
day,inmyopinion,wemustthrowawayallrespectforfriendships,partyloyaltiesandpersonalaffection,andpay
attentiononlytotwoquestionstheabsolutetruthandthewelfareofthecountry.
Frankly,Iamsorrythattherighthon.MemberforSouthHackney(Mr.H.Morrison)announcedtheintentionof
dividingtheHouse.IthinkitwouldhavebeenfarbettertohavehadnoDivision.IhadhopedthattheGovernment
wouldbesufficientlyimpressedbythelinewhichthetwodays'Debatehasfollowed,bythespeechesthattheyhave
heard,bytheinformationwhichmusthavereachedthemthroughprivatesources,totakesomedrasticstepsofreform,
whichsomanyofusfeelareurgentlyneeded.ButwhileIregrettedtheannouncementoftherighthon.Memberfor
SouthHackney,IamboundtoadmitthatIregrettedstillmorethesubsequentinterventionofthePrimeMinister,
whenheappealedtotheaffectionofhisfriends.IresentedthatappealbecauseIfeltitwouldonlybewiththedeepest
reluctanceandregretthatIshouldvoteagainstaGovernmentledbyhim.SinceIwascompelled,owingtomyown
beliefsatthetime,18monthsagoormore,toresignfromhisAdministration,Ihaveneverfoundmyselfobligedto
voteagainsthim.Intimesofpeace,whentheissueswereissuessuchastheMinistryofSupply,thedemandforwhich
hesolongresisted,Ifeltthatmyconsciencewasclearinabstainingfromofferingavoteuponthematterbutintime
ofwarIfeelthattheissueistoourgent,Ifeelthatthisisnotatimewhenanymanhasarighttowashhishandslike
PontiusPilate,andtakeneitheronesidenortheother.Onthisoccasion,withthedeepestreluctance,Ishallbeobliged
tosignifythelackofconfidencethatIfeelinthepresentAdministrationbygoingintotheLobbyagainsthim.
IlistenedtothePrimeMinisteryesterday,andIwasdeeplydisappointedbyhisspeech,becauseIhadhopedthathe
wouldhaveannouncedsomeimportantreform.Ihadhopedhewouldhaverealised,whatthecountryhasrealised,
thatwearespeakingtodayundertheshadowofagreatdefeat.Wehavehadmanydefeatsintheselastthree
disastrousyears.AgainandagainwehavemetinthisHouse,sometimessummonedsuddenlyinanemergency,

alwaystorecordasetback,adisaster,alwaystolistentothedisappointment,theastonishmentandthesurpriseofthe
PrimeMinisterbutnearlyalwaysithasbeenfollowedbysomereaction,bysomechange,bysomedevelopment.In
thethreespeechesthatwehavealreadyheardfromtheFrontBench,therehasnotbeentheslightestadmissionthat
somethingisfundamentallywrongwiththemachineryofGovernment,thatthereissomethingrottenintheState.We
knowitisnotinthequalitiesofourtroops,wehavenoreasontobelieveitistheimperfectionofourequipment,nor
hasitbeenstatedthatthereissofaranyshortageinsupply,asfarasthepresentcampaignisconcernedandIwillnot
saythereisanythingwrongwiththecharacterofMinisters.IbelievethereareontheFrontBenchtalent,devotionto
duty,courage,intelligence,sufficienttoformanadmirableCabinet,and,therefore,Iamdrivenbacktotheconclusion
thatwhatiswrongistheinstrumentofGovernmentitself.
Surely,wemustallrecognise,whateveryschoolboyknows,thatdemocracyisatafearfuldisadvantageinwarfare
whenfightingagainstdictatorship,forthesimplereasonthatonemancanmakeuphismindmorerapidlyandact
withgreaterswiftnessandsecrecythanacommittee.Wecannotremainwiththatdisadvantage.Iamnotforadopting
thesystemofgovernmentthatprevailssowidelyupontheContinenttoday,butIdothinkweoughttodoourutmost
todiminishthedisadvantageswhichthesystemofgovernmentbycommitteeimposesuponus.Thelargerthe
committee,thelongerthedelay.Thatisobviouslytrue.Everymemberofthecommittee,ifheisdoinghiswork
properly,feelsheiscompelledtogiveanopinion,and,therefore,discussiontakeslonger,andasthereareoftentwo
ormoredifferentopinions,sooftentheconclusionofthecommitteeisapttobeacompromise,andneitheronething
northeother.Napoleonsaidthattwogoodgeneralsincommandoftroopswerelessformidablethanonebadgeneral,
becausetheonebadgeneralhadhisplanandactedonit,whereasthetwogoodoneseitherhadtwoplansorelsetheir
planwasacompromise.
TheonlychangeadumbratedinthethreespeecheswhichwehaveheardfromtheFrontBenchisaslightalterationin
thepositionoftherighthon.GentlemantheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty.Iamnotfullyclearwhatthatalteration
means.Weknow,strangeasthefactmayappear,thatforthelastfouryearstherewasaMinisterfortheCoordination
ofDefence,butthatontheeveofthecampaigninNorway,which,aboveanyothercampaigneverundertakeninthe
historyofwar,demandedcoordinationbetweentheforcesofsea,andland,andair,theMinisterfortheCoordination
ofDefencewasdismissedandhispostabolished.Whatwasconsideredessentialinpeacetimewas,apparently,no
longerregardedasnecessaryinwar.Iamnotclearwhethertherighthon.Gentlemanistofulfilthefunctionsofa
MinisterfortheCoordinationofDefence.Ithinknot.Iamnotafraidofextraburdensofworkbeingimposedupon
therighthon.Gentleman.IknowhisabilityIknowhisstaminaandtheamountofworkwhichhecando.ButIdo
saythatitisfundamentallyfaultyandunwise,anddemonstrablywrong,toputoneofthreeServiceMinistersina
positionsuperiortotheothers.
ThosewhohavehadanyexperienceofadministrationmustknowthatdifferencesofopinionbetweenService
Departmentsareinevitable.Bitterandkeenasthosedifferencesveryoftenareinpeacetime,theyareevenmorebitter
andkeeninwar.Therighthon.Gentlemanhimselfknowswellthetimethatwaswastedduringthelastwaronbitter
controversiesbetweenoneDepartmentandanother.Oneofthemainobjects,surely,ofsettingupaMinistryforthe
CoordinationofDefencewastodoawaywiththosedifficultiesbyensuringthatthereshouldbe,atanyrate,an
arbitertowhomdisputescouldbereferred.ButhowcanadisputebetweentwoDepartmentsbereferredtoanarbiter
whoisattheheadofoneofthem?Sothatthis,initselftheonlychangethathasbeensuggestedasaresultofour
terribleexperienceseemstometobeafundamentallyunsoundplan.PerhapstheFirstLordwillexplaintonight
exactlywhathispositionisandwhatwillhappenifhefindshimselfaskedtoarbitratebetweenhisownDepartment
andanother.
ThesuggestionwhichhasbeenputforwardthatthereshouldbeasmallWarCabinetwasairilydismissedbythe
PrimeMinisteronthegroundthatLordHankeydidnotlikeitandthattheFirstLordwasopposedtoit.Ibelievethere
isacertainprejudiceagainstthesystemasitexistedinthelastwar.Itwasaninnovation,adaringinnovationofthe
righthon.GentlemantheMemberforCarnarvonBoroughs(Mr.LloydGeorge),butitproved,intheopinionofmost
peopleandintheexperienceofall,anextremelysuccessfulinnovation.Nevertheless,ithasbeencriticised.Surelythe
rightmethodwouldhavebeentohaveimproveduponthatinnovationinsteadofscrappingitandgoingbacktotheold

method.WithallduedeferenceandwithallthehumilityofaprivateMember,Isuggestthatthatinnovationcould
havebeenseriouslyimproved.IhavebeentoldbythosewhoservedintheCabinetatthattimethattheyfound
themselvesinlessimportantpositionswhentheyweremademembersoftheWarCabinet,thantheyhadbeeninwhen
theywereheadsofgreatDepartments.Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforCarnarvonBoroughs,nodoubt,with
hisvigorouspersonalitysomuchsubjugatedtheothermembersoftheWarCabinetthatintimetheirseparate
individualitieshadalmostdisappeared.Therewas,however,Iunderstand,aprinciple,howevervaguelyapplied,that
differentmembersoftheWarCabinetwereconnectedwithdifferentDepartmentsofState.
Whycouldnotthatprinciplebeworkedoutintoadefinitesystem?WhynothaveoneMinisterforDefencewho
wouldberesponsiblefortheWarOffice,Admiralty,AirMinistryandMinistryofSupplyandtowhomtheMinisters
ofthoseDepartmentswouldbesubordinate?Theywouldhavetotakehisorders,buttheywouldberesponsibleeach
forhisowngreatDepartment.They,nottheMinisterofDefencehimself,wouldhavetocomedowntotheHouseof
Commons,dayafterday,toanswerquestions.AtpresentweseetheSecretaryofStateforWarwastinghistime
answeringquestionsaboutwhythewifeofPrivateSoandSohasnotreceivedherallowance.AMinisterofDefence
suchasIsuggestwouldbeconcernedsolelywiththinkingaboutandcarryingoutthedefenceofthecountryandthe
conductofthewar.Secondly,IwouldhaveaMinisterfortheHomeServices.Hewouldembracewithinhispurview
allthehomeServicesandeveryDepartmentconnectedwiththem.Hewouldnothavetodothedaily,heavy
departmentalwork,buthewouldkeepthesmallcentralGovernmentintouchwitheverythingthatwashappeningon
thehomefront.ThentherewouldhavetobeoneMinisterwhowouldstandforForeignAffairsandInformation,two
subjectswhichareindivisible.PerhapsitwouldbenecessarytohaveajuniorMinister,sayanUnderSecretaryatthe
ForeignOffice.Fourthly,therewouldhavetobeaMinisterforEconomicswhowouldberesponsible,notonlyforthe
TreasurybutalsoforEconomicWarfareandforcarryingontheblockade.EconomicWarfareshouldbepartofthe
workoftheTreasury,butatpresent,asfarasIcangather,itisbeinginterferedwithateveryturnbytheTreasury.
YoumighthaveafifthMinisterthoughI,personally,wouldliketolimitthenumbertotheminimumwhowould
beresponsibleforallouroverseaobligationsfortheDominions,theColoniesandIndia,andifyoucouldsecurethe
servicesofsomedistinguishedDominionsstatesman,itwouldaddenormouslytothestrengthoftheGovernmentand
thesolidarityoftheEmpire.
Thesearenotimpossibleconsiderations,buttheyhaveallbeendismissedbythePrimeMinisterinasentence
"ChangesofGovernmentmaynodoubtsuggestthemselvesfromtimetotime."Itisjustthatkindofphrasewhich
carriesdespairtotheheartsofpeoplewhofeeltheneedthatsomethingdrasticshouldbedoneimmediately.Changes
donotsuggestthemselvestheyhavetobesuggested.Hereisachangethathasbeensuggestedagainandagainby
manypeople,frommanyquartersofthepoliticalsphere,andbymanywritersinthePress.Theseproposalsareturned
downasthoughtheywereofnointerest,whereasitisundeniablethat,sofar,thiswarisnotbeingcarriedoutwiththe
successforwhichweallhopeandpray.
Anhon.Memberaskedjustnowforanexampleofvacillation,andthehon.andlearnedMemberforEastBristol(Sir
S.Cripps)gavehimthecaseofNorway.IdonotintendtomakeanycriticismontheNorwegiancampaignatthe
presenttime,fortheNorwegiancampaignisnotyetcomplete.Therearestillriskstoberunanddangerstobefaced,
andcriticismofacampaignwhenitisonlyhalfcompletedmay,aswewerewarnedbythePrimeMinister,domore
harmthangood.ButthecaseofFinlandis,forthemoment,afinishedchapter,andIwouldliketosayafewwords
uponit.That,atanyrate,cannotdoanyharminthepresentsituation.Thereagainwasaterribleexampleof
vacillation.ItseemstomethatthereweretwopoliciesforHisMajesty'sGovernmenttopursueontheoutbreakofthe
Finnishwar.TheycouldhavesaidtoFinland,"WearealreadyengagedinaterriblestrugglewithagreatPower.We
areatwarwithGermany.Itisnotpossibleforus,therefore,todoanything.Wehavenowishtofindourselvesatwar
withRussia.Wehaveenoughtodoforourselves,andwhileweregretanddeploretheattackmadeuponyou,donot
looktousforassistance."
Thatwouldhavebeenapolicyplain,dignifiedanddefinite.Finlandwouldhavehadnoexcusetocomplain,because
wewereboundtoherbynoobligation.Ontheotherhand,wemighthavesaid,"Weareonyoursideinthiswar.We
consideryouraggressor,whoistheallyofouraggressor,isourenemytoo,andthereforeweshallsupportyou.We

shallgiveyoueveryaidinourpower,butifwearegoingtofightforyou,itmustbeFranceandGreatBritain,the
seniorPowersandtheseniorpartners,whoaretoconductpolicy.Wewillwelcomeyourgreatfieldmarshaltothe
SupremeWarCouncil,andattheearliestdatehewillexplainwhatareyourneedsandnecessities.We,together,will
laydownthewisestpolicywhichweconsideritpossibletopursue.Itmaybethatitwillbebettertoretire,anditmay
beimpossibleforustoassistinpreventingyourcountrybeingoverrun,butatanyrateweshallsharewithyou
whateveristobegainedorlostinthiswar."Thatagainwouldhavebeenapolicybutwedidneithertheonethingnor
theother.Wewaited,andweunderstandthatthefieldmarshaldemandedmeninMay.Really,acountryof3,000,000
isatwarwithacountryof160,000,000andyouhavenotgottowaitforafieldmarshaltotellyouthattheyneed
men.Theyweresenttoolate,andwithtoosmallapercentageofthenecessarythingstheydemanded.Thereforewe
didloseprestigeinEuropeandthroughouttheworld.
Theseareinstancesofthekindofvacillationwhichshowsthattheremustbesomethingwrongwiththemachine.
Timeaftertimewehaveheardthisoldstoryofthesurpriseswhichhavebeensprungonus.Thewholerecordofthese
lastthreeyearsisaseriesofsurprises.ThemarchintoAustriawasasurprise,themobilisationagainstCzecho
Slovakiawasasurprise,thebreachoftheAgreementofMunichwasanastonishment,theattackonPolandwas
unanticipated,andtheattackuponFinlandwasquiteunforeseen.Finally,theattackonNorwaycamejustwhenwe
werebeginningtothinkoftheimportanceofthatScandinaviancountryandbeginningtothinkofitjusttoolate.I
dohopethatthenextsurpriseinEuropewillbesprungbyHisMajesty'sGovernment.
Today,asusual,wearesittinginanticipation,wonderingwhatItalyisgoingtodo.Therewasareportthatour
AmbassadorhadbeensenttotheheadoftheItalianStatewithasternmessage,andIwasextremelysorrywhenI
foundthatthatreportwasdeniedandcontradictedasuntrue.Itismorethanthreeweekssincewehavebeen
threatenedbyItaly,anditismorethanthreeweekssinceSignorGrandimadeaspeechinwhichhesaidItalycouldno
longerremainanobserver.SignorGrandiisnotanobody.HewasforlonganAmbassadorinthiscountry,wherehe
createdapositionforhimselfandreceivedtherespect,theaffectionandthefriendshipofmanypeople.Heconducted
himselfthroughaverydifficultperiodwithgreatdiscretion,andhewasMinisterofForeignAffairsandisnow
MinisterofJustice.HeisperhapsamongthefivemostimportantpeopleinItaly.Inmyopinion,ifhemakesa
statementlikethat,ourAmbassadoroughttogotohimthenextdayandsay,"Whatisthemeaningofthisstatement?"
InsteadofwhichwereadreportsinthePressthatitisveryprobablethatItalyhasdeferredinterventioninthewarfor
twoorthreeweeks,andmanypeoplethink,"Well,thatwilltakeuswelloverWhitsun."Ifshedoesnotintervenein
thewar,itisbecauseItalyconsidersitisnotthemomenttodoso.Asusual,Isuppose,weshallallowhertojudge
whenthemomentismostsuitable.
Equally,thereisthesituationintheBalkanstodaythelastoutpostsofneutrality.Canwenotsendoutoneofour
leadingstatesmen,properlyequipped,tovisitthevariouscapitalsofthesecountriesandtosaytothem,"Whatisyour
policy,whatareyourplans?"andtotellthem,"Youhavetwoalternativesonlybeforeyouoneisslaveryunder
Germany,andtheotheriscooperationwithFranceandGreatBritain.Foryourownindependenceandsalvation,are
yougoingtochoose,forweareformingaBalkanbloc,andifyoudonotcomeinit,itwillbeveryinconvenientfor
you?"Wearenotlivinganylongerunderthelawofnations.ThereisnolawofnationsrunninginEurope.Weare
livinginastateofanarchy,andwhenlivinginastateofanarchyeachmanmustplayforhimself.Whenlawandorder
donotexist,eachmanmustdefendhimselfandmakehisownlaw,althoughIwillnotsayweshouldearlierhave
interferedwiththeneutralityofanycountry.Butthisisamatteroftime,andweshouldnotbeboundbyanyscruples
intakinganystepswethinkessentialforthesalvationofourcause.
Thesearesomeofthekindofthingswemightdo,butthesethingsarenotbeingdone,andIamafraidthepeopleof
thiscountrydonotthinkthatthisGovernmentislikelytodothem.Tonightweshallnodoubtlistentoaneloquent
andpowerfulspeechbytheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty.Ialmostwishitwasgoingtobedeliveredfromthenow
emptyseatwhichheusedtooccupybelowtheGangwayhere.Hewillbedefendingwithhiseloquencethosewho
havesolongrefusedtolistentohiscounsel,whotreatedhiswarningswithcontemptandwhorefusedtotakehiminto
theirownconfidence.Hewillnodoubtbeassuccessfulashealwayshasbeen,andthosewhosooftentrembled
beforehisswordwillbeonlytoogladtoshrinkbehindhisbuckler.IwillbeseechmyfellowMembersnottoallow

thecharmofhiseloquenceandthepowerofhispersonalitytocarrythemawaytonight,andnottoallowhimto
persuadethemthatalliswell,thattheycangoawayhappilyforasomewhatincreasedWhitsunholiday,becauseif
theydoso,theywillbeuntrueandunrepresentativeofthemoodoftheirconstituentsandunworthytorepresenttheir
fellowcountrymen.
7.39p.m.
Mr.Hicks(Woolwich,East)AfterlisteningtotheDebatesofyesterdayandtoday,althoughIhavepreparedsome
notesuponwhichIwishtomakesomeobservations,Ihavenowdecidedpartiallytorevisetheminviewofthenature
oftheDebateandtheverywonderfulcontributionMembersoftheHousehavemadetoit.Therighthon.Memberfor
SouthMolton(Mr.Lambert)reallystimulatedmeinmakingmyremarkswhenhemadeparticularreferencetothe
unwillingnessoftheLabourmovementtogiveanyassistancetotheGovernment.Iamcertainthatinhisenthusiasm
andhisobvioussincerityhehadnotmadethenecessaryinvestigationsastowhatcontributionhadbeenmadebythe
Labourmovementonboththetradeunionandpoliticalsidestohelpwinthewar.Itisasobviousasthenewlyrisen
sunthatnoGovernmentinthehistoryofthiscountryhashadamoreunitedbodyofmenandwomenbehinditasthis
Government.Ithashaditfromthebeginning,andmanytimesourvoiceshavebeenstilledandwehaverefrained
fromcriticismbecausewebelievethatintheevolutionofthewarmachinethathastobesetuptobeatthemost
formidableenemyintheworldtheremustofnecessitybesomemistakesandthatwecanprofitbythemtoevolve
betterwaysandmeans.IdonotknowanythingaboutmilitarystrategyandIdonotproposetoenterintoit.NordoI
knowthegeographicalornationalconditionsofNorway,althoughIhavebeenprivilegedtogothereonmorethan
oneoccasion.Ileavethemilitarysidetotheexperts,andIfrequentlyfindthattheirconclusionsareatvariancewith
thefacts.
Mypurposeinspeakingistodrawattentiontothehomefront.Nearlyeverybody'smindtodayisontheContinent
andotherpartsoftheworld,butthereisthehomefrontandithastoberegardedveryseriously.Iclaimtoknow
somethingaboutthehomefrontandtheconditionsthatexistthere.Isayunhesitatinglythatthestateofthehomefront
isthemostvitalfactor,foritisonthebasisofthehomefrontthatthewarisbeingwagedabroad,andunlessitisgood
thesustenancethatisrequiredforcarryingonthewarwillbeseriouslyimpaired.Ihaveforaconsiderabletimehadan
uneasyfeelingthatwhatishappeninginregardtomanymattersinmyownindustryinthecourseofourrelationships
withvariousDepartmentsandcommitteesishappeningtootherindustries.Havinghadexperienceofitoveralarge
numberofyearsIhaveofnecessityformedcertainconclusions,andIamafraidthatitishappeninginthewide
governanceofthecountryandintheconductofthehomefront.Ifthatisso,astateofaffairsexistswhichinvites
healthyandvirilecriticism,withaviewtochangingtheattitudeofGovernmentDepartmentstothepracticalproblems
ofindustryandtothosewhomtheycallinfromtimetotimetoconsultfortheiradviceandpracticalexperience.They
givethatadvicewithoutrewardthereisnoquestionofrewardandnoteventhepaymentofbusfares.Theygowith
thebestintentionstogivetheiradviceinordertomaketheDepartmentsasefficientaspossibleforthesuccessful
carryingonofthewar.
Therefore,IwanttocriticisewithaviewtochangingtheattitudeoftheDepartments.Itmaybethattheyarenowso
organisedthatitwouldbeimpossibleforthemtochangetheirattitude,butthequestioncertainlyrequiressome
examination.Iamdesperatelyconcernedtowinthewar.Irealise,probablymorethanagoodmany,thatourlivesand
libertiesareatstakeinthemostdeadlywarofalltimes.Noonecanchargemeormypartywithanylackofloyaltyor
withpreachingdefeatism,butIfeltIshouldbedoinglessthanIthinkisrightifIdidnotcallattentioninthepresent
circumstancestothefacts.Ifwearetodragvictoryfromthisfrightfulinfernoallourresourcesandallourorganising
capacitymustbedevotedtoitwithoutletorhindrance.Thewarmustbewagedwiththemaximumstrengththatthe
countryisabletogive.Theworkerswhomanthevitalindustriesandservicesmustbeprovidedwiththegreatest
opportunitiestogivetheirbestlabourandeffort.Withoutthewillingendeavouroftheworkersthewarcannotbe
carriedon.Thatshouldbeobvious,butitisastarkrealitywhichmanyhavenotyetrealised.
ItisnearlyfouryearsagosincetheMinistryfortheCoordinationofDefencewassetup.Itookituponmyselfasa
privateMembertohaveachatwiththeMinister.Isaid,"Youaregoingtoengageinsomeverylargeworks.Isit

possiblefortheindustrywithwhichIamassociatedtogiveyouanyassistance?Idonotknowwhetherwecanhelp
youornot,butifyouwilltelluswhatyouhavetodoandwhatyouhaveinmindyouhaveoursympathyandgood
will,andwewill,tothebestofourability,givewhateverhelpwecan."ThatofferwasacceptedbytheMinisterand
wehadsomeconsultationswithcertainDepartmentsandextensiveconsultationswiththeoperativesconcerned.Isaw
thatthematterwentbeyondtheoperativesandthattheemployerswereconcerned.Isawthatitwasnousediscussing
thematterwiththemseparatelybutthatitwasbettertogrouptogetherandseewhatcontributionbothsideswereable
tomake.WesetupajointconsultationcommitteeandanothercommitteewassetupinScotland.Itravelledmany
timestoandfromScotlandanddidsoduringthenightbecausemytimewaslimited.Bothemployersandoperatives
offeredtogiveoftheirbesttohelpinthedesignofanybuilding,inthediscussionsaboutalternativematerialsand
aboutthebalanceofmaterialandmen,andtoassistinstaffing.Weofferedtoassistwithadvicewherevernecessary.I
havespentmanyhoursandsometimesdaysinofferingadviceandmakinginvestigation,andhaveoftenbeencalled
onatshortnotice,sometimesatinconvenienttimes.
IwanttosaytotheHouseandtotheGovernmentthat,apartfromtheconsiderationofwhatwasknownasthe
McAlpineReport,Ihaveneverbeenabletodiscussanythingbuthowfarwecouldkeepwagesdownorhowfarwe
wereabletobringinapprenticesandrelaxourruleaboutovertime.Thisgreatindustryhasneverbeenshowna
drawingorplanandneverbeenaskedtodiscussalternativematerialsormethods,oranyquestionofthatkind.Ihave
spenthoursonthisworkbuttheonlythingwehavegotoutoftheGovernmentisarecognitionofthefairwages
clause.MyunioncouldhavegotthatwithoutanyconsultationwiththeGovernmentatall.Isaythatunlessthemen
whohavegiventheirlivesinanindustry,whoknowsomethingaboutitandarewillingtogivetheirexperienceare
utilised,thereissomethingwrongwiththemachineryofGovernment.Inourindustryaresomeofthefinest
architects,surveyorsandaccountantsintheworld.Wehavewonderfulbuildersandbuildingoperatives.Theyhave,
however,neverbeenaskedaboutasiteortolookatanysitetoseewhetheritissuitable.Thearchitectshavenever
beenconsultedaboutdesign.Noneoftheotherprofessionalandtechnicalmenofexperiencewhowerewillingtogive
thecountryfreelythebenefitoftheirassistancehavebeenaskedaboutthesethings.
IamnotmakinganindictmentagainstparticularindividualsinaDepartment,butIsaythattheDepartments
themselvesandletmesaythatIknowwhatIamtalkingabout:IhavebeentalkingonlyofsubjectswhichIknow
sinceIstartedtospeakarehandlingjobsrunninginto3,000,000or4,000,000wherepreviouslytheyhaddealt
onlywithsumsintheneighbourhoodof100,000andtheirideasandorganisationhaveneverexpandedwiththe
growthoftheprogramme.Thoughtheyshowthebestwillintheworld,thejobsaremuchlargerthantheyareableto
tacklewithoutextensiveconsultationswiththerepresentativesofindustry,whoseassistancehasalwaysbeen
available.
Ihaveneverbeenaskedtodealwithanythingbutlabourtroubles.TheGovernmentrepresentativesmakea
microscopicalexaminationofeverylittleproposalfordealingequitablywithmenwhoareworkingupontheirjobs.
Themostmeticulouscareistakenwhenitisaquestionofdoinganythingforthemen.Thereisneveranyquestion
aboutcontractors'profits,theyareguaranteedneveranyquestionaboutcostsanddesign,theyareguaranteednever
anyquestionaboutthecostofmaterials,thatisguaranteedneveranyquestionaboutthecostoftransport,thatis
guaranteed.Noonelosesanythingexcepttheoperatives,wholosetimethroughbadweather.EverytimewhenIhave
beendiscussingthesemattersallthatIhavebeenconsultedaboutiswhetheranextrahalfpennyinafortnight'stime
wouldbelikelytomeetaparticularsituation.Thatisnotthewayinwhichtheseproblemsshouldbetackled.Wehave
heardofnothingbuttheeffortsofthosewhohavebeentryingtoseehowfartheyareabletokeeppaydown.
Iamapracticalmanwhohasorganisedworkers,whohasselectedsites,employedtechnicians,gotthematerials
togetherandsuperintendedthewholebusiness,whohasdonemanyajobinthiscountrybutwhenIoffermyadvice
noadvicewhichIcangiveappearstobeaccepted.Iamleftentirelyontheoutside.AsIhavesaid,theyhavea
territorywhichtheyforbidanyonetoinvade.IfIwereadisloyalman,ifmyeffortsinthepasthadwarranted
suspicion,Icouldunderstanditbutwhocansaythataboutme?HaveInotgivenevidenceofmygoodwill?Ifthe
samethingishappeninginotherindustriesonthehomefrontwhenmenofloyaltyarewillingtohelp,thenitisright
thatthereshouldbecriticismandtheGovernmentoughttositupandtakenoticeofitandgivefacilitiestothe

practicalmenwhowishtohelp.IwenttoScotlandtohelpingettingmanpowerontojobs.Itravelledallnightinthe
train,metmymenandpersuadedthemtoabandonallsortsofrestrictionsandruleswhichtheyhadevolvedfromtheir
experienceandwithaviewtotheirwellbeing,inorderthatwemightmakesomecontributiontothecommoneffort.
Everyattempttogetalittleequityinwagesismetwithopposition.SittingonsomeofthosecommitteesIhavefelt
thatIcouldburstoutlaughing.IhavepassedremarkswhichIfeltwerealittletofacetious,butIfoundpeoplenot
havingonetenththeexperienceofmyselfbeingaskedtogivedecisionsaboutthesematters.
Iamunabletoassessthedifficultieswhichariseoverthequestionofcostsofconstruction.Letustakethecaseofa
bigcampwhere,say,thereare500men.Theysay,"Wewillstartoffwithahalfpennyandseehowwegeton,andif
thereistroublewewillgiveanotherhalfpenny,andifthereismoretroublewewillgiveanotherhalfpenny."Does
anyonebelievethatisthewaytodothings?Iftheconditionsonajobbecomesounbearablethatthemenare
compelledtotakeindustrialactiontoputitrightandtheywin,thentheauthorityofthemanagementisgonesofaras
thatjobisconcerned.Neveragainwillthemanagementbeabletoexercisethesameauthority.Iamnotabletoassess
thelossofmoneyoccasionedbyincidentssuchasthis.Somebodyisguilty,butIamnotbringinganyonetothebar,
becauseeverythingissoevasivebutanyonewhoknowsanythingaboutbuildingoranyotherworkknowsthatwhen
menarestartedonajobtheyshouldbedecentlytreated,andthenitispossibletosaytothem,"Thesearethe
conditionsandtherewillbenovariationofthem,becausethereisabasisofequityinthem."IfthatweredoneIam
confidentweshouldhavehadadifferentstateofaffairs.
Iremembertwoinstancesinwhichitwasreportedthatthereweredifficultiesaboutthesupplyoflabour.Isawthe
presidentoftheemployers,Mr.Parker,averygoodman,whosaid,"Letusgodowntohavealookatthejobsandsee
whatthedifficultiesare."Wewentontothesites,weexaminedtheforemen,theresidentengineers,thebuildersand
theiragents,andwefoundthatthefactswhichhadbeengiventousasbeingabsolutelyuptodatedidnotcorrespond
withthefactsaswefoundthemonthejobs.WenotonlytookitupwiththeDepartment,buttookitupwiththe
OfficeofWorks.Wesatuplatetowriteareport,becausewehadbeentolditwasveryurgent,butnotuntilnearlya
fortnightafterwardswerewecalledtogetheragain,andthenweweretoldthatafreshsituationhadarisenandthatthe
dateforthecompletionofthejobhadbeenchanged.Itwasadvancedtothe5thDecemberfortunatelyforthe
Departmenttheydidnotsaywhichyear.Thejobisonyet.Werealisedthatwhenthefactshavebeencheckedupwith
realitiesandarefoundtobecontrarytotheDepartment'sassessmentofthesituationthensomethingelseisintroduced
tobringaboutafreshstateofaffairsinorderthattheDepartmentmaynotbeprovedtohavebeenwrong.Sometimes
MembersaskquestionsaboutcostsandwhenIhavebeentalkingtocontractorsIhaveaskedthem,"Howisitthat
yourjobissoexpensive?"Theysay,"Wearewaitingfordrawings,waitingforplans."Therearesome20,000
architectsunemployedinthiscountryandIamcertainthattheservicesofanumberofthemcouldbeobtained.Itisa
monstrousthingtoseethisskilledtechnicallabouridle.
IcomenowtoanotherDepartment,thatdealingwithHomeSecurity.Wewereaskedtoassociateourselveswiththe
HomeSecretaryandwillinglydidso.ItisnotthefirsttimetheHomeSecretaryhascalleduponme,andIhavegiven
myservicesasfreelyasIcan.WewerecalledupontoassistinsettinguprescueanddemolitionsquadsforA.R.P.
work.Theemployersandourselvesmetthearchitects,themunicipalauthoritiesandsomeotherpublicrepresentatives
Iforgetwhotheywere.Wesetupacommitteetodealwiththefirstandsecondrescueanddemolitionsquads.That
wasbeforethewar.ThemenwerenotcominginfastenoughandIwasaskedtobroadcastanappeal,asaresultof
whichmanythousandsofmenjoinedthesefirstandsecondrescueanddemolitionsquads.Whenthewarbrokeout
therewerecertaindeficienciesincertainpartswhichweremadeupinotherways.ThatwasundertheHomeOffice.
Intheworkingoutofthenewarrangement,weexpectedthat,howevergooditmightbe,therewouldbecertain
difficulties.CircularsweresentoutfromtheHomeOffice,butsomeofthemwereinveryambiguouslanguage.We
urgedtheimportanceofbringinginlocalauthorities.IfeelthatwhatwesayinthisHouseweoughttomean,because
weareinfavourofDemocracy,althoughsomepeoplewhogetalittleauthoritymighttendtoforgetthemselvesinthe
distributionofthatpoweramongthepeople.Wethinkthatthelocalauthoritiesareverynecessaryandshouldremain
inexistence.IregardthemasfortressesofDemocracyinthiscountry,andIhopeweshallgivelocalauthoritiesas
muchpoweraswecan.Menhavebeentrainedintheuseofhighexplosivesinorderthattheymightbeabletohelp

duringbombingraids.Nodoubttheywillbeabletogiveaveryexcellentaccountofthemselvesintheunfortunate
eventofthoseraidstakingplace.
Inspiteofallthatwedid,wesaidtotheDepartment:"Letushaveameeting,"andwedecideduponachairmanwho
wouldbeapprovedbyeveryone.HewasaverypopularmaninGreatBritainandhewasapprovedofbythe
employers,thearchitects,localauthoritiesandmedicalscience.Everybodythoughtthathewouldsuitadmirably,but
thischairmanneverpresidedoveronecommitteemeeting.Thefirstdaythatwehadameeting,SirGeorge
Humphreys,whoiswellknowninconnectionwiththeLondonCountyCouncil,wasappointedtemporarilyinthe
chair.Civilengineersandbuildingcontractorswerethere,inregardtotheworkingoutoftheHomeOfficecircular
aboutfirstandsecondrescueanddemolitionsquads,asI,thegeneralsecretaryofmyunion,andaMemberof
Parliament,withqualificationswhichareperhapsnotunimportant,havewrittenletterafterlettertotheDepartment
andhaveneverhadanacknowledgment.Icanbringproofofthisstatementifitisrequired.ItistruethatIwrotenot
totheHomeSecretarybuttothechiefoftheDepartment.Lettershavebeenextraordinarilylonginbeingrepliedto,
andwhenIhavehadtoreporttothebuildingtradeonthecorrespondenceyoucanimaginethederisionwithwhich
suchreportsarereceived.
Whathappened?Afterfivemonthsourchairmanwasstillunabletogetameeting.Theonlymeetingwhichheever
attendedwasacommitteemeetingwherethecontractorswereabletofixupthepricewhichtheycouldgetforajob.
Wetriedtogetameetingofthegeneralconsultativecommitteetodiscussmanydifficultiesandtoclassifythemunder
threeorfourheads.Wetriedtogetacomplaintstribunal,butafterfivemonthsofbeingchairmanofthecommittee
andwithouteverhavingachancetopreside,thechairmanresigned,andwehavenothadameetingevennow,
althoughwewereformedbeforethewar.Thentherighthon.MemberforSouthMolton(Mr.G.Lambert)saysthat
LabourhasnotrespondedtotheinvitationoftheGovernmenttoassisttheminthewareffort.
Ihaveheardcomplaintsandwrittenscoresoflettersandmanyofthemhaveneverbeenanswered.Donotletusforget
whenwearediscussinginternationalaffairswhichdealwithourmeninthevariousServicesthatthereisaneedto
keepthehomefrontintact.ThatiswhyIasktheGovernmentnottobecomplacentaboutthemenwhoareanxiousto
help.IamnotgoingtosaythatIhavenotwithheldwhatcontributionImayhavebeenabletomaketothediscussion
ofthesematters.IhavebeensilentmanytimeswhenImighthavesaidmanythingsbutIhavebeenanxioustomake
themaximumcontribution.Nowthereisanotherprincipleinvolved.Wearenotsatisfiedtobecoveredinthesame
wayashon.Gentlemenontheoppositeside.Employersandourselvesintheindustrywhoareanxiousandwillingto
helpcannotjustcomedownandhaveameeting.Wehavebeentoldseveraltimesthatcomplaintswerebeing
received.TheParliamentarySecretarytotheMinistryofLabourhasbeenafirstclassmaneversinceIhavehad
anythingtodowithhim.WiththeMinistryofHomeSecurityIhavehadtheleastpossibletrouble.Whatishappening
inmyindustryischaracteristicofwhatishappeninginothers.Iwarnyouthattheremightbeatimewheneventhe
Labourleaderswillfeelthattheirintelligencehasbeenoffendedandtheywillrefusetocooperate.Theyshouldbe
broughtinbecauseofthegreathelptheycouldgive,andbecauseoftheirgreatexperience,whichwouldbevery
valuabletothecountry.
8.9p.m.
ColonelSirGeorgeCourthope(Rye)Thespeechtowhichwehavejustlistenedhasbeeninrefreshingcontrasttothe
majorityofthespeecheswhichhavebeenmadeduringthelasttwodays,andIhavegreatsympathywiththehon.
Gentleman.Helimitedhisremarkstoasubjectwithwhichheisthoroughlyconversant,andhehasdrawnattentionto
somematterswhichobviouslyrequireredress.Iamsurethatredresswillbeattempted.Hehasnotjoinedinthe
generalchorusofexaggerationtowhichwehavelistened,nordesiredtofastenanothersubjectofdisappointment
upontheshouldersoftheGovernmentingeneral,andofthePrimeMinisterinparticular.Iwantverybrieflytolook
intosomeofthespeecheswhichhavebeenmadeandtrytogetbacktoasenseofproportionwhichthosewhohave
madethespeechesseemtohavelost.Icannothelpthinkingthatthefeelingofdissatisfactionandimpatienceatthe
waythewarisgoinghasgivenmanypeopleavaguedesireforachangewithoutquiteknowingwhyandwithout
havinganyrealsuggestionsorideasastowhatchangetheywant.Infact,withoneortwoexceptionsnoneofthe

speakerstodayoryesterdayhashadanydetailedproposalstomakeforimprovingthesituation.Withoutlookingfor
causes,Ibelievethatifthespeechestowhichwehavelistenedtoday,criticisingtheGovernmentingeneralandthe
PrimeMinisterinparticular,hadsubstancebehindthemtheywouldbefullyreflectedinthepostbagsofMembersof
Parliament.Ihavealwaysfound,andIamsureotherhon.Membershavefound,thatwheneverthereisanygeneral
feelingofgrievanceordissatisfactionone'sconstituentsarealwaysreadytowritetotheirMemberandexpressit.
InsomeofthespeecheswhichwehaveheardtodaycondemningtheGovernmentweweretoldthatthe
overwhelmingdesireofthecountrywasforachange,andallthatsortofthing,butIshouldhaveexpectedmypostbag
tohavereflectedit.Ihavekeptanoteofmylettersduringrecentweeks.Ihavehadthreelettersfromindividual
constituentsexpressingadesireforachangeofPrimeMinister,andonefromaladywhoisnotaconstituentbut
writestosaythatsheissorryshedoesnotknowwhoherMemberis,butasshehasmetmeshehopedIwouldnot
allowtheHousetoriseforWhitsuntideuntilwehadchangedtheGovernment.
Mr.Poole(Staffs,Lichfield)Shewasanoptimist,wasshenot?
SirG.CourthopeOntheotherhand,Ihavehadamultitudeoflettersfrommyconstituentsexpressingregretatthe
factthatcertainsectionsofthePressandcertainindividualspeakersareallowedtocontinuemakingattacks,someof
themscurrilousandmanyofthemunfair,upontheGovernmentandthePrimeMinister.Therehavebeenmanyof
those,andquiteanumberoforganisationshavebeenmovedbythatfeelingtopassresolutionsandsendthemup.As
farasmypostbagisconcernedandIexpectotherhon.Membershavehadmuchthesameexperiencethereisno
signofthisgeneralandoverwhelmingdesireamongsttheelectorateforachangeeitherofGovernmentorofits
leader.Ifthatisso,towhatcanweattributethistendencywhichhasrevealeditselfsomuchinspeechesinthelast
fewdaystomakeamountainoutoftheNorwegianmolehill?
Mr.PooleMolehill?
SirG.CourthopeIwilljustifythatinaminuteandtosaddletheGovernment,andthePrimeMinisterinparticular,
withtheresponsibilityforthedisappointment,thefailureandthefeelingthatwearenotgettingonasfastaswe
shouldliketo,whichisboundtoarisefromtimetotimeinthemindofeverybody?Itisaverymarkedcontrasttothe
lastwar.IwasinthisHouse,asmanyofuswere,duringthelastwar,andIthinkthatwhattriedpeople'snervesso
badlyandmadethemcriticalofeverydisappointmentwasthedailysearchthroughlongcolumnsofcasualtylistsfor
thenamesofthosewhoweredeartothem.Inthiswarwehavebeensparedthat,andIthinkthattheprincipalcauseof
nervestrainhasbeenthealmostintolerablewaitingforsomethingtohappen.Itisinevitabletohavetowaitfor
somethingtohappenwhenyouaretryingtosuppressawildbeastoranunprincipledrobber.Youcannottakethe
initiativefromawildbeastwithoutdescendingtoitsownlevel,andasEnglishmenwecannotadoptthelackof
principleandIhopewenevershall,despitetheremarksofafewspeakersindealingwithneutralswhoareentitled
toexpectproperinternationaltreatmentfromus.
Imayormaynotberightinthinkingthatsomesortofnervestrainhasarisenfromthislongwaiting,whichhasledto
theseunreasoningattacksupontheGovernmentandthePrimeMinister.Thelackofsuccessanddisappointment
whichwemustallfeelovertheNorwegianbusinesshasgivenanopportunityforanoutburst.Itisveryinterestingto
anybodywhoknowsanythingaboutNorwaytorealisethatinthisDebatethelittlecampaigninNorwayhasbeen
comparedtothePunicWars,thecampaignofBoadiceaandthestrugglebetweenOliverCromwellandPrinceRupert.
Myrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSparkbrook(Mr.Amery),dealingparticularlywithOliverCromwell,finished
uphisverypowerfulspeechwithaquotationwhichisofparticularinterest.HequotedOliverCromwell'swordsof
dismissaltotheHouseofCommonsattheendoftheLongParliament.Hesaid,"InthenameofGod,go."Theright
hon.GentlemansuggestedthatthosewordswereappropriatetobeappliedtothepresentGovernmentandthePrime
Ministeroftoday,butIshouldliketopointoutthatifmyhistoricalrecollectioniscorrectitwasthedictatorwhohad
togoandParliamentthatremainedandremainstoday.
ImustapologisetotheHousefortakingalittletimeindealingwiththisquestion,butIbelievehon.Memberswill
admitthatIhaveaparticularinterestinitbecauseanancestorofmine,whorepresentedapartofthecountrywhich

containsmyconstituencytoday,washereintheLongParliamentandhadthosewordsaddressedtohim.Itisvery
significantthatParliamentremainedthenandParliamentwillcontinuenow,andanyattemptofadictatorialkindto
dismissGovernmentsorPrimeMinisterswillbeasfutileaswasCromwell'satthattime.Amongthespeeches
criticisingtheGovernmentwasaverypowerfulattackbymyhon.andgallantFriendtheMemberforNorth
Portsmouth(SirR.Keyes)onthenavalstaff,fornotattemptingdirectly,bynavalaction,toforcetheTrondheim
FiordandcaptureTrondheim.Myhon.andgallantFriend'sexploitsaresofamousandmypersonaladmirationfor
whathehasdoneissogreatthatIwouldnotventureforonemomenttodisputehisassertionsthatdirectnavalaction
waspossible.ButImustconfesstoafeelingofacutedisappointmentthat,intellinguswhathadtobedonethere,he
madenomentionofthetwofortsthatguardthenarrowentranceoftheTrondheimFiord,which,wearetold,were
handedoverbytreacherytotheGermans,andwhichareequippedwith11inchguns,and,presumably,therefore,can
giveapowerfulaccountofthemselvesagainstsurfaceships.
MostoftheotherspeecheshaveamountedtoseverecondemnationoftheGovernmentbecausewefailedtogetto
Norwayfirst.Onlytwoofthespeakers,thehon.andlearnedMemberforEastBristol(SirS.Cripps)andmyright
hon.FriendtheMemberfortheSt.George'sDivisionofWestminster(Mr.DuffCooper),wentsofarastosuggestif
IunderstoodtheirspeechescorrectlythatweoughttohaveinvadedNorway.[Interruption.]Iamtoldthatthatisnot
whatwassaid,butitiswhatIunderstoodthemtosay.TheDebatehasmadeitabundantlyclearthat,withoutanin
vasionbyus,againstNorway'swill,and,therefore,attheriskofarmedresistance,wehadnochanceofoccupyingthe
portsandaerodromesofNorwaybeforetheGermansgottherebymeansoftreachery.Ifthatisthecase,Isay,"Thank
Godwedidnotadoptthosetactics."IexpressmygratitudetotheGovernmentandthePrimeMinisterforresistingthe
temptationiftherewasanytemptationtocommitsuchaterriblebreachofinternationallawasanarmedinvasion
ofaneutralcountry,inordertogetthereaheadofGermany.ThisenterpriseinsouthernNorwayhasbeenspokenof
asaterribledisaster,asacalamityandvariousotherstrongwordshavebeenused.Itwasadisappointment
everyoneadmitsthat.Itwasafailure,insofaraswedidnotachievesuccessingettingTrondheimandabaseforour
fightingaircraft.ButIamdoubtfulwhether,onbalance,itwillproveafailure.Ithinkthattheinjurieswehave
inflicted,thedifficultieswehavecreatedforGermany,andtheencouragementwehavegiventothesmallbutgallant
forcesofNorway,havebeensogreatthattheymayverywellcounterbalance,inthelongrun,anydisappointmentand
lossofmenandmaterialthatwehavesuffered.Theforceemployedwasverysmall,andtosuggestthatthiswasa
majormilitarydisasterissheernonsense.
TheLeaderoftheOppositionattackedtheGovernmentandthePrimeMinisterprincipallybecausetheyhadgivenan
optimisticviewofthatexpedition.Howcouldtheyhavedoneanythingelse?Wouldtheexpeditioneverhavebeen
sentiftheyhadnothopedandbelievedthatitwouldbeasuccess?Ofcourse,nomilitaryexpeditionwouldeverbe
undertakenthatdidnotjustifyoptimisminitsearlystages.Butbyhowmuchofamargindiditfail?Byverylittle.A
verylittledemolitionalongthetwomainvalleysofNorwaybytheretreatingforceswouldhavesodelayedthe
mechanisedGermanforcesastoenablethewholepositiontobechanged.IftheNorwegianForceshadsucceededin
hangingontoonlyoneaerodrome,itmighthaveentirelychangedthewholeposition.Ithinkitwasbyaverynarrow
marginthatthatexpeditionfellshortofsuccess,andIamstillnotconvincedthatitcanbewrittendownasadefinite
failure.Ifindnojustificationinanyofthespeechesthatwehaveheardforaseriousattackuponeitherthe
GovernmentorthePrimeMinister.I,forone,believeinhisleadership,andIhopeitwillcontinue.Ibelievethatthe
vastmajorityofthepeopleofthiscountryholdthesameview.
Mr.HoggNoathousandtimes,no.AndnotoneservingMemberholdsthatvieweither.
SirG.CourthopeIamentitledtoexpressmyopinion.Iwasratherexpectingthatlittleoutburstfrombehindme.I
believethevastmajorityofthepeopleofthiscountryarepreparedtosay,asIsaynow,"ThankGod,weareledbya
PrimeMinisterwhoisnoteasilyrattled,andwhopossessesthegiftofpatience,whichsomanyofuslack."
8.29p.m.
CommanderBower(Cleveland)Iammorethangladtofollowtherighthon.andgallantGentlemantheMemberfor
Rye(SirG.Courthope),because,bythewordshehassaidtonight,herepresents,ifanybodydoes,thespiritthatis

goingtolosethiswar.AsaservingMember,Isay,withallrespecttohim,thatitwasthespeechofapastgeneration.
Itwasaspeechwhichmighthavebeenmadebyanyoneof100backbenchersinourparty,andonewhich,inthe
presentgraveanddreadfulemergencyinwhichwefindourselves,isalmostincredible.Ihavetobeverycarefulof
whatIsay.AsahumblememberoftheNavalStaffIknowtoomuch,anditwouldbecriminalofmetodisclose
anythingwhichcomesmywayinthecourseofmydutyconsequentlymywordstonighthavehadtobeprepared
verycarefullyeitherfromwhathasappearedinthePressorfromwhathasbeensaidbyotherhon.Membersofthis
House.Incidentally,IhavefortifiedmyselfagainstanyposibledisapprovaloftheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,by
studyingrathercarefullyhisattitudeatthetimeofwhathascometobeknownastheSandyscase,andhecanbe
perfectlycertainIseethathehasarepresentativeontheFrontBenchthatIshallsaynothingofwhichhewould
notthenhaveapprovedandpresumablywouldnotapproveofnow.
YesterdayweheardfromthePrimeMinisterataleofperil,ofdefeat,andoffailure.Wecancallitnoless.Thereare
notinconsiderableitemsonthecreditside,amongthemthegreatgallantryofthearmedForceswhohavebeen
engagedinthisunfortunateoperation,butwemustadmitandthisisthethingwhichtherighthon.andgallant
Gentlemanwhohasjustspokenfailsutterlytorealisethat,whetherlargeforceshavebeenengagedornot,whether
thelosseshavebeenheavyornot,Germanyhasgainedastrategicaladvantagesuchasshenevergainedinthelast
war.
SirFrancisFremantle(St.Albans)Shedid,aftertheAntwerpexpedition.
CommanderBowerPerhapsthehon.Memberwillallowmetodevelopmyargument,andasonewhohasbeentotwo
staffcolleges,Ihavestudiedthesethingsperhapsasmuchashehas.Therearecertainimmutableprinciplesofwar,
whichhavebeenpractisedornotpractisedasthecasemaybethroughtheagesbycommandersofarmedforces.
Modernweapons,differentcircumstancesandallthechangesbroughtaboutbytimemakenodifferencetothese
broadprinciples.Analysesofoperationsofthepast,includingtheoperationsofthelastwar,haveshownthatthe
commanderswhoabidebytheseprinciplessucceedandcommanderswhofailtoabidebytheseprinciplesfail.
ThePrimeMinisterhassaidthatthisisaqueerwar.Iaminclinedtoagreewithhim,butitisnotbeingwagedinany
queerwaybytheGermans.TheGermanwagingofthiswarisnotintheleastqueeritisruthless,swift,brilliantin
conceptionandinexecution,andithasbeencourageoustothevergeoftemerity.Theyhavenotforgottenuptothe
presenttheprinciplesofwar,thoughGodgrantthattheymaydosolater.Theyhavebroughtdecisiveforcestothe
rightpointattherightmomentinthefaceofgreatobstacles.Theyhavemadefulluseofeveryweaponthatlayto
theirhands,legitimateorillegitimate,stratagem,surprise.Iamnotoneofthosewhothinkthatthewarstartedon3rd
Septemberlastyear.Thewarstartedlongbeforethat,andasotherhon.Membershavesaid,wehavehadasuccession
ofretreats,defeatafterdefeatAustria,CzechoSlovakia,PolandandnowNorway.Iamnotgoingintothedetailsof
them.Otherhon.Membershavedonethat,andwilldoso.Wehavemadeitaqueerwar.ThisGovernmenthavemade
itaqueerwarbytheiracceptanceofthefactthatapparentlytheyconsiderthattheenemymustalwayshavethe
initiative.Byourretreatfromonepositiontoanotherandbyourunwillingnessevertoactruthlesslyourselves,we
havecreatedasituationinwhichtheenemyisplayingwithusasortofgameofgrandmother'sfootsteps.Wearelikea
childintheschoolyard.Wefacethewallandhecomesbehindus,andeverytimeweturnroundweseethathehas
advancedonestepfurther,andnowhehasgotwithinmeasurableandstrikingdistanceofthiscountry.
InNorway,eventhemostardentsupporteroftheGovernmentwilladmit,wewerecompletelyandabsolutely
surprisedandrolleduphorse,footandguns.Theenemy'sstrokewasmasterly.IcannotsubscribetothePrime
Minister'ssurpriseandratherpetulantattributionofHitler'ssuccesstoa"longplannedattackagainstanunsuspecting
andalsounarmedpeople."HasnotthePrimeMinisterevennowlearntthatGermantreachery,ruthlessnessand
barbarityareamongthefewreallypredictablefactorsinthiswar?Everytimeithappensthesamestoryistold.Uphe
getsandexpressessurpriseandindignationthatthisshouldhavehappenedoncemore.Wemustadmitthattheenemy
tookgreatrisks,relyingonsecrecy,swiftnessofaction,and,Iamverymuchafraid,uponwhatherightlyregardedas
ourinevitableindecisionandlackofaction.Butthereisanothersidetothequestion.Itsohappenedthatin
conjunctionwiththesmallhalfheartedlittleminelayingoperationwhichwecarriedoutwenaturallyhadcovering

forcesatsea,includingalargenumberofsubmarines.IamgivingawaynosecretswhenIsaythattheseinflicted
greatlossontheenemyforcesandtransports.SubmarinesIhaveseenandreadtheirreportshadthetimeoftheir
lives.TheyhadtargetssuchasIwasnevergivenwhenIwasinasubmarineinthelastwar.
TheresultofallthiswasthatthefirstdayortwoaftertheygotintoNorwaytheGermanswerereeling.Theyhadnot
succeeded100percent.theyhadnotsucceededmorethan50percent.TheirstrokeatNarvikhadfailedutterly,and
inotherplacestheyhadtoresorttosendinguptroopsbyaircrafttroopcarriers.Ifwecouldhavethenmadeabold
counterstrokeitmighthaveretrievedthewholesituation,andcompletelyturnedthetables.Buthours,minutes,even
seconds,were,astheyalwaysare,ofvalueinasituationlikethat.WeknownowthatatBergen,andalittlelaterat
Trondheim,theshipsofHisMajesty'sNavywerereadyandwaitingtoemulatetheexploitsofmyfriendPhilipVian
inthe"Cossack"afterhewentafterthe"Altmark."Butno,thedeadhandfromabovedescendedandstoppedthese
operations.Wildhorseswillnotdragfrommewhatdeadhanditwas.AllIsayisthatitwasthedeadhand,andit
camefromabove.Everybodyknowsit.
Mr.McGovern(Glasgow,Shettleston)Whosewasit?
CommanderBowerWeallknownow,Ithink,thatafrontalattackonTrondheimwasthemajoroperationand
objective,andthatitwastobedoneinconjunctionwithtwosubsidiaryoperations,atAndalsnesandatNamos.Isay
that,inmyviewatanyrate,itwascriminalfolly,havingcutoutthehammerblow,togoaheadwiththesetwolittle
sideoperations,whichcouldnotpossiblyhavesucceededinthecircumstances.
ThePrimeMinisterhastoldusthatitistooearlyyettostrikeabalancesheet,butatanyrateweknowthisthatthe
enemyhasgained,andwehavelostagreatdealofprestige.Itisthestrategicalpointofviewthatwemustconsider.
Hitlerhasdeepwaterharboursforwhichhehascravedforageneration.Iwonderhowmanyhon.Memberswithout
anynavalexperiencerealisewhatthatmeans?InthelastwartheGermanFleethadonlythreeorfourshallow
estuaries,soshallowthattheirbigshipshadtowaituntilhighwaterinordertomoveout.Theywerelittleratholes.
NowshecanstealuptheNorwegiancoastwherethereareathousanddeepwaterharboursinwhichshipsmaybe
safelyconcealed,andwhereitisalmostimpossibleforustogetatthem.Hon.MembersmaysaythatGermanyhasno
fleet,butinfacttheyhaveaconsiderablefleetleft.Itisnotenoughtothreatenourcommandofthesea,butitcan
causeusacuteembarrassmentbecauseeverysingleunithasfreeaccesstotheAtlanticandcanslipoutwheneverthe
weatherconditionsarefavourable,toattackourtraderoutes.
Iconfidentlypredictthatasaresultinthiswarweshallagainbeattackedbysuchraidersasthe"Moewe,""Wolf"and
"Seeadler,"whichcausedsomuchdamagetoourshippinginthelastwar.Ourcontrabandcontrolwillhavean
immeasurablymoredifficulttaskandwhenhon.Memberssaythatitapparentlymakesnodifferencestrategically
theyaretalkingthroughtheirhats.GermanyhashadheavylossestoherNavyandagreatproportionofhersurviving
shipshavebeenbadlydamaged,butherNavyisaluxuryandoursisanecessity.Itisanexpendablecommodity,andI
amperfectlyconvincedatthepresentmomentthattheGermanStaffiswellcontentthateveryshipsunk,everyship
damaged,andeverylifelosthavebeenwellexpendedinviewofthegreatstrategicalimportancegained.Theyhave
anadvantagewhichmaycostusuntoldmillionsofpoundsand,whatisworse,hundredsofthousandsoflives.
Ihavepainted,anddeliberatelypainted,agloomypicture.Ontheothersidewehavethemagnificentworkofthe
Navy,ArmyandAirForce.Thereareoneortwoquestionsarisingoutofthiscampaignwhichhavealreadybeen
askedandthereisonewhichIwillaskandwhichwasraisedbytherighthon.GentlemantheMemberforCaithness
andSutherland(SirA.Sinclair).Itisthis:Why,sincewearesoreadytobombNorwegianaerodromeshavewebeen
soextraordinarilyunreadytobombGermanaerodromes?IwouldliketorecalltoMembersofthisHousethefactthat
araid,whichwassometimeagoreportedinthePress,wascarriedoutontheislandofBorkumbysomeofour
Blenheims.Inthatraidtheydroppednobombs.Theywereonlyallowedtoshootuptheaerodromeswithmachine
gunsandpunctureafewholesinaeroplanes.Thatraidproducedanabsoluteandcompletesurpriseourplanesarrived
unheraldedoutoftheblueandcouldhavebombedthewholeplacetosmithereensataheightof500feet.Every
machinecouldhavegotback.ButwewaiteduntilGermanymadeanattackonScapaFlow,andifevertherewasa
legitimatemilitaryobjectiveitisScapaFlow.WeatonceretaliatedbyraidingSyltasifsaying,"Lookhereyou

naughtyboy,youhitmeandIshallgiveyouoneback."EverybodyknowsthateverycivilianwasmovedfromSylt
monthsago.Icallthatahesitantandahalfheartedwayofwagingwar.
ColonelWedgwood(NewcastleunderLyme)OnapointofOrder.Wearelisteningtoaveryimportantspeechandis
itpossibletogetanyMemberoftheWarCabinetpresent?WhyistheHouseleftinthiscriticalsituationwithoutany
MemberoftheWarCabinetbeinghere?
Mr.DeputySpeaker(ColonelCliftonBrown)ThatisnotapointofOrder.Iunderstandthattherearegoodreasons.
CommanderBowerIcannotbutsaythatthewholeofourpolicybeforeandsincethedeclarationofwarhasbeen
utterlylackingininitiative.TogobacktoNorway,IhavethegreatestsympathyfortheNorwegianpeople,butquite
frankly,andasabackbencherIcanspeakquitefrankly,IhavenotmuchsympathywiththeNorwegianGovernment.
Icannotforgetthe"Altmark"incident,andIwillnowsaysomethingwhichputsmeforonceinmylifeincomplete
agreementwiththehon.andlearnedMemberforEastBristol(SirS.Cripps).Itisthatatthetimeofthe"Altmark"
incidentweshouldhavedecidedthenandtherethatthissortofthingmuststopandweshouldhavewalkedstraight
intoNorwaywithadequateforces.TodayInoticeinthe"Times"newspaperastatementwhichsays:Itgoeswithout
saying,ofcourse,thatwecouldnothavelandedmeninNorwaywithoutaNorwegianrequest,orpriortoanactof
warbytheenemy.Whynot,whenwearefightingforourlives?Whenyouarefightingforyourlifeagainsta
ruthlessopponentyoucannotbegovernedbyQueensberryrules.ThisGovernmentwouldratherlosethewarunder
Queensberryrulesthandoanythingunbecomingtoanabsolutelyperfectgentleman.Thatkindofthingwillnotdo.
Wemustbepreparedinfuturetotreatneutralnationsinaccordancewiththenecessitywhichisboththeirsandoursin
thelongrun.Noonesinglepersonwilleversuggestthatifwefounditnecessarytogointoaneutralcountrywe
wouldeverstealtheircountryorimposeupontheirpeoplethehorrorsofaNazirule.Ifwehaveconfidenceinour
causetheworld,too,willbelievethatofus.SomeyearsagoIwentintoachurchandIheardasermonwhichwas
ratherstriking.AfterdeclaimingthatthechurchwasdecadentandthatChristianitywastoorespectable,thepreacher
madethesomewhatsurprisingstatement,"WhatwewantaresomemorecadsliketheApostles."Thereisagooddeal
ofsubstanceinthatwewantafewmorecadsinthisGovernment.
Warisacontinuationofpolicy,asIwastaughtattheStaffCollege.Iamabsolutelycertainthatthewayweare
conductingthiswarisacontinuationofthepolicywhichleduptoit,andapolicywhichwillleadusonlytoinevitable
disaster.TheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltythisevening,Iunderstand,willwindupthisDebate.Heisagreatorator,and
Ihavenodoubtwillputoveraveryconvincingcase,butIamcertainthathewillnotusehisgreatgiftoforatory,that
harlotofthearts,topresentacaseinwhichhedoesnotbelieve.ItisthereforewithconsiderableinterestthatIshall
listentohearhowhecontrivestodefendacasewhichuptoquiterecentlyhedislikedasmuchasIdo.Itseemstome
thatwemusthaveaGovernmentwhichwillberuthless,relentless,remorseless,andwhichwilltaketheinitiativeat
onceandforthefirsttimekeepHitlerguessingwherewearegoingtohithim.
OnelastwordabouttheotherpartnertotheAxis.Thiscountryhaslatelyputupwithagooddealofnonsensefrom
theStatecontrolledItalianPress.Oneortwohon.Membershavegonesofarastotalktheoldappeasementstuff.
Thatwillnotdo.WhatwewantnowistheCopenhagenstuffofthe1801vintage.IfIwereForeignSecretaryIwould
simplysendatelegramoftwowordstoMussolini"Copenhagen1801,"andsignit.Myviewisthatthedeadhand
mustgo.Thissortofthingcannotgoonanylonger.Iwasverysorrytohearthiseveningtheshortinterventionofthe
PrimeMinisterinwhichhetalkedabouthisfriends.OfcoursehehasamultitudeoffriendsinthisHouse,andIcount
myselfamongthem.Hehasspokenformeinmyconstituencyandhasbeenmorethankindtome,especiallywhenI
wasayoungandinexperiencedMemberoftheHouse.Butwhathasthattodowithit?Whenhon.Memberslikethe
hon.andgallantMemberforEpsom(SirA.Southby)getupandsuggestthatthosewhodisagreewiththePrime
Ministeronquestionsofpolicyandthinkheisnotsuitedtoleadthiscountryinatimeofcrisisareinsomewaybeing
disloyaltohim,suchasuggestionisoutrageousandcontemptible.
Todayourloyaltyisnottoamanortoaparty,oreventoacountry.Itisaloyaltytoallthosethingswhich2,000
yearsofChristiancivilisationhavebuiltupandwhichwecannotpossiblyletgo.Thatiswhatwearefightingfor,and
toreducethethingtothelevelofapettypersonalloyaltyisimpossible.IbelievethatthisDebateisoneofthemost

importantthathasevertakenplaceinthehistoryofthiscountry,andonitwilldependwhetherweultimatelygo
forwardtovictoryorwhetherinacoupleofhundredyearstimesomefutureGibbonwritesofthedeclineandfallofa
greatideal.
8.55p.m.
Mr.A.Edwards(Middlesbrough,East)Iamgratefultothehon.andgallantMemberfortheClevelandDivision
(CommanderBower)whoseconstituencyadjoinsmine,forhisspeech,andIamsurethatmanyelectorsinthedistrict
willappreciatethespeechhehasmadetonight.Ihopethatsomehon.Membersoppositewhohavebeentaunting
hon.MembersonthissidewithnotthrowingintheirweightwiththeGovernment,willdemonstratetheir
dissatisfactionwiththeGovernment.Itisallverywellforhon.Memberstomakefinespeechesandnothavethe
couragetorecordtheirvotesagainsttheGovernment.Wehavehadmanycourageousspeechesonotheroccasionsbut
noactionintheDivisionLobby.WehavelearnedonethingfromtheDebate,andparticularlyfromtheSecretaryof
StateforAir.TheonethingthathasstruckmeinthisDebatewasthecoldbloodedsmugnessoftheSecretaryofState
forAir.HetoldusthatHitlerhadtopayoddsofthreetoone,whichwasagoodinvestment.Itisnousetellingusthat
wehavenotlostthecase.Iknowsomethingaboutourrequirementsasregardsironoreandwehavenotyetgotthe
ironore.
Iwanttoputthispointperfectlyclearly.WehavebeentoldthatthereasonwehavelostthewarinNorwayisthatwe
didnothaveanairbase.WehavebeentoldbythePrimeMinisterandtheSecretaryofStateforAirthathadwehada
baseforourfighterplanes,weshouldhavewon,thatiftherehadbeenlandingplaces,wecouldhavesupportedour
troopsandthestorywouldhavebeenentirelydifferent.AsasimplemindedamateurIamwonderingwhetherinthe
networkofthefiordstherewerenogoodplacesforlanding.Iamtoldthatthetypeofaeroplaneswehavearenogood
forthispurpose.IhopetheFirstLordwilldealwiththepoint.Itisachallengetohim.Ifthesuccessorfailureofthe
warinNorwaydependedonhavinganairbase,weretheGovernmentadvisedbytheirexpertsthattheycouldfit
floatstofighterplanesandsousethem?Ifthatisso,whyweretheynotquicklyfittedout?
Mr.AustinHopkinsonPerhapsthehon.Memberwillallowmetoanswerhim.Itwouldbequiteimpossibletogetthe
speedandmanoeuverabilityforfighterplanesifthathadbeendone.IamnottryingtoexcusetheGovernment:Iam
pointingoutthedifficulty.
Mr.EdwardsWiththegreatestrespecttothehon.Member,Ihavediscussedthismatterwithsomeonewhoknows
evenmoreaboutitthandoesthehon.Member,andheassuresmethatnotonlyisthispossible,butthatatthis
momenttheyaregoingaheadwithit.Ifthatisso,whycoulditnothavebeendonebefore?
Mr.HopkinsonWillthehon.Membernametheperson?
Mr.EdwardsIshallbegladtogivethenameofthepersontotheFirstLordortotheSecretaryofStateforAir,butas
thehon.Memberknows,itisnotunusualforexpertstobeturneddown.
Mr.HopkinsonIonlywantedthename,becausethiswouldbeofimmensevalue.
Mr.EdwardsIamwillingtogivethenametotheFirstLord,whoIhopewillreplytoapointputbyabackbencher,
andIhopethehon.MemberwilladmitthatwhatIhavesaidisrightandthatheiswrong.Theyaredoingthisatthe
moment.
Mr.HopkinsonOnlyveryslowly.
Mr.EdwardsIfwhatIamsayingistrueandithasbeenturneddown,itisaveryseriousindictmentofthe
Government.TherewillleavethiscountrytomorrowagentlemanwhomthelateSecretaryofStateforAirknows
well,oneofthegreatestengineersinaeronauticsthiscountryhaseverproduced.Heisgoingouttodoagreatjob
abroad,andmyconvictionisthatheisbeingforcedoutofthecountrybecausehecannotgethissuggestions
considered.IamnotspeakingwithouttheknowledgeofthepeopleonwhomIambasingmyremarks.Therighthon.

Gentlemanknowsthepeople,andheknowsthedifficultiestherehavebeenwiththesepeople.Heknowsthatthese
officialshavebeencausingobstructionanddelay.Therighthon.Gentlemannowhastheleisuretolookintothese
things,andIwanttoputthistohimasatest.AtthismomentsomeoftheengineerswithwhomIamacquaintedhave
putforwardaveryimportantdevelopmentwhichrequiresequipmenttotheextentofabout10,000.Itwasconsidered
fortwoorthreedaysatHarrogateandwasturneddown.IthasbeenreferredtotheTreasury,anditwillsurelytake
threemonthsbeforetheTreasurydoanythingaboutit.Iputthisasatest,becausethreemonthsfromtodayIshall
raisethismatter,andseewhetherthatisnotthecase.IamconvincedwecandefeatHitlerifwecandefeatthe
Departments.HavingknownsomethingoftheseDepartmentsduringrecentmonths,Ifeelthatifwedonotovercome
thesepeoplewhoareholdingthingsup,weshallbeingreatdanger.
Afewmonthsago,whentherighthon.GentlemanwasSecretaryofStateforAir,Iputtohimamatteraboutwhichhe
promisedtoletmeknowwithinafewdaysafteraweekhewasstillpromisingmethathewouldgointoit,butwithin
ashorttimehelosthisjob,andIhaveheardnothingmoreaboutthematter.NotlongagoIhappenedtobeatoneof
ourportsonadaywhenashipwasattackedandthreebombsweredroppedonitandmanymenkilled.Theboatwas
setonfire.Iinquiredwhyitwasthatthelocalpeoplecouldnotsendupsomefighterplanes,andIwastoldthatthey
wouldhavetotelephonetoanotherplaceforauthoritytodoso.Ofcourse,bythetimetheauthoritywasreceived,the
bomberswereontheirwaybacktoGermany.Willsomebodytakenoteofthesethingsandhavethecouragetodeal
withthem,orarewetogoonmuddlingalongwithelderlygentlemengettingupandexplainingawaywhathas
happenedinNorwayasanincident?Ihavementionedthesethingsasatest.Irepeatthatunlesswedefeatthe
departmentalofficials,thecivilservants,weshallnotdefeattheenemy.Somebodymusthavethecouragetosaythis,
andsomeMinistermusthavethecouragetogetupintheHouseandnotwhitewashthesepeople.
Toconclude,Iaskforananswerfromsomebodyinauthorityaboutthesefloats.Secondly,Iasktherighthon.
GentlemantotakenoteofwhatIhavesaidaboutthegentlemanwhoisleavingthiscountry.Ihonestlybelieve,from
whatIknow,thatheisbeingforcedoutofthecountryandthathewouldbeofmuchgreaterservicetothecountyif
hestayedhere,forheisoneofthemostcompetentengineersthecountryhaseverproduced.Ifitwerenotfor
pettifoggingjealouslyintheDepartments,thismanwouldhavebeentheprideoftheService,buthehastogoabroad
todoanotherjob.Thirdly,willtherighthon.Gentlemantakethetroubletoseethatthisequipment,towhichIhave
referredandofwhichIwilltellhimlater,whichisneededforaveryimportantdevelopmentforouraeroplanesand
requires10,000isnotrefusedbecausesomepettifoggingauthorityinHarrogaterefusesit,andsaysthatitwillhave
tobereferredtotheTreasuryandthattheTreasurywilltakealongtimetoconsiderit.Thatmaymeanthelossof
threevaluablemonthsandmanylives.IhopethatforonceabackbenchMemberwillgetareplyfromaMinister,at
anyratetothequestionIhaveaskedaboutthesefloats.
9.5p.m.
Mr.Brooke(Lewisham,West)NoonecanspeakintheHouseatthistimewithoutadeepsenseofresponsibility.My
mindgoesbacktothenightof8thMaylastyear,whenahighlyimportantDebatetookplace.TheGovernmenthave
beenbitterlyattackedduringthelasttwodaysbyhon.Membersontheotherside,whohavechargedthemwith
indecision,lackofboldness,failuretorealisethesituation.ThosearethesameMemberswho,onthisnightlastyear,
bitterlyopposedtheSecondReadingoftheMilitaryTrainingBill.Icannotseparateinmymindthecriticismswhich
havebeenmadefromtheothersidetoday,fromtherecordsofsomeofthemensinceremen,Iknowwhohave
madethem.Weheardthehon.andlearnedMemberforEastBristol(SirS.Cripps)chargingtheGovernment,onhis
owntestimony,andonhisowntestimonyalone,supportedbyimpressionshehadgainedinAmerica.Weheardhim
chargingtheGovernmentwithcowardiceandwithfailuretopossessbynowthesuppliesthatwillbeessentialtowin
thewarbut,asIunderstand,itwasheandhisfriendswhobelievedthatthiscountryshouldhaveengagedinalife
anddeathstrugglewithHitler18monthsago.IcommendthatthoughttotheHouse.
IknowthatpeoplewhospeakasIamdoingarelabelled"yesmen."Isubmitthatitisnotaneasythingatthismoment
tospeakasIamdoingnow.ThePrimeMinistermadesomereferencetofriends.Hehasbeenrepresentedashaving
appealedtoMemberstovoteforhimonthegroundoffriendship.Icannotclaimtocallmyselfapersonalfriendofthe

PrimeMinister'sIwishIcouldbutbecauseIseeinhimtheoutstandingmanwhopossessesthetwoqualitiesof
cooljudgmentandfieryhatredoftheenemy,whichIbelievearerequiredtowinthewar,Isupporthim,andIam
ready,ifitsobefalls,togodowntofailurewithhim,confidentthatIbymyspeechesandactionsshallnothave
betrayedthecountry.Itisasupremelyimportantvotethatwillbetakentonight.Asthehon.andgallantMemberfor
Cleveland(CommanderBower)said,itmaydeterminethefutureofthiscountryforhundredsofyears.Icouldnotbut
regretthathefortifiedhiscasewithanargumentaboutNorwaywhichwouldhavefullyjustifiedtheGermaninvasion
ofBelgiumin1914.ThatisthekindofcriticismwhichIcannotrestrainmyselffrompointingagainstmanyofthose
whohave,nodoubtinsincerity,utteredtheircriticismsagainsttheGovernmenttonight.
IhadpreparedsomeconstructiveobservationsregardingthefutureconductofthewarwhichIhadhopedtoput
beforetheHouse,butthecourseoftheDebatehaschangedmyintention,andIwillcutmyremarksveryshort.Iwill
confinemyselftothispoint.Iwonderwhetherhon.Membershaverealisedwhatisthesharpestshortageofallwhich
impedesourvictory.Itisnotashortageofbulkmanpower,asitwasin1914.Theabsenceofthenecessityforagreat
recruitingcampaignhasleftthecountryunbeflaggedandunstirred.Wehavetotakeaccountofthesethings.Itmay
bethattheGovernmenthavenottakensufficientaccountofthem.Thesharpestshortageofallistheshortageof
skilledmanpower,andbythatImeannotonlyskillofhandbutskillofbrain.
IshouldliketoseemoreurgentattentionbeingpaidbyMinisterstotherapidmobilisationofthebrainpowerofthis
country.WehavetheCentralRegisterandothermachinery,butitdoesnotfunctionasswiftlyasitmight.Whilehon.
Membersareconcentratingonthepoliticians,IthinktheywouldbewelladvisedtoexaminewhethertheCivil
Serviceischangingasrapidlyastheconditionsnecessitate.Ihavesomesympathywiththeunderlyingthoughtsofthe
hon.MemberforEastMiddlesbrough(Mr.A.Edwards)inthatrespect.IshouldliketoseeMinisterstakingthetime
andtroubletoprobeandseewhethertherearenotmeninseniorpositionswho,whilepossessedofqualitieswhich
admirablysuitthemforthosepositionsintimesofpeace,aredoingjobsthesizeandurgencyofwhichhaveoutgrown
theirpowers.IshouldliketoseeMinistersboldtopromotejuniormenwhoshowthattheyhavethatwarwinning
capacity.Ishouldliketoseethemcombingthecountrytobringmenwiththosequalitiesofbrainintocontactwiththe
Governmentservice.
Themenwhowinwarsarethemenwithburningheartsandcoolheads.Curiouslyenough,thatcombinationisvery
rareinGermanythecapacityforreallydeepperception,coupledwiththepowertoact.Inthatwepossessagreat
racialadvantage,anadvantagesufficienttowinthewar,ifweexploitit.ItisbecauseIseethatcombinationpresentin
thePrimeMinisterthatIwouldrathertrusthimtoleadtovictorythananyotherman.Butifwefailtoencourage
initiative,ifwefailtodeployrapidlyenoughthenation'sfightingbrainpower,thenweshallbebeatenlikeachess
playerwhoismatedbysurprise.
9.14p.m.
Mr.A.V.Alexander(Sheffield,Hillsborough)Iamsurethehon.MemberforWestLewisham(Mr.Brooke)willnot
complainifIdonotfollowhimindetailintheargumentwhichhehasbeenaddressingtotheHouse.He,undoubtedly,
exhibitedgreatpersonalloyaltytothePrimeMinister,andnoneofusunderestimatespersonalloyalty,butwhenhe
referredtotheneedformenwithburningheartsandcoolheads,Iconfessitstruckmethatonecouldhardlyrecognise
intheinterventionofthePrimeMinisterthisafternoonthequalityofacoolhead.Beforeproceedingtodealwiththe
pointswhichIwishtoputtotheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,whoisnotinhisplaceatthemoment,Ishouldliketo
paymypersonaltributetotheworkoftheFightingServicesinthelastfourdifficultweeksinScandinavia.Idonot
thinkthatinanypartoftheHouseduringthisDebateanyMemberhashadanycriticismtomakeofthework,the
heroismandthecourageofthosewhohadthetaskofcarryingouttheoperationswhichourforcesweresentto
Norwaytoperform.
SpeakingfirstinregardtotheRoyalNavy,Imustsaythatnothinghasthrilledmemoreinmyowndealingswiththe
AdmiraltythanthemessagesaboutwhichIhavebeenprivilegedtohear,firstwithregardtothedevotionandsuccess
oftheofficersandmeninthesubmarines,and,secondly,withregardtothealmostunexpectedsuccessofthatonce
despisedsectionofouraviationequipment,theFleetAirArm.Idonotsupposethatmanyofthosewhohaveinthe

pastspokeninthisHousewithexpertknowledgeaboutflyingoperationsintimeofwarwouldhaveagreedthatplanes
ofcomparativelylowspeedcouldeverhavebeenoperatedwithsuccess,whatevertheskillanddevotionofthecrews,
againstmuchfastermachines,astheyhavebeenbyournavalofficersinthelastfewweeks.Whatourforcesin
Norwaywouldhavedonewithoutthehelpofthosenavalplanes,heavenonlyknows,andIwishwecouldhavehad
fromtheSecretaryofStateforAirjustalittlemorepersonaltributetothatbranchofaviationthantherighthon.
GentlemanseemedpreparedtogivethisafternoontotheFleetAirArm.
Itshouldalsoberecognisedthatwhateverwehavehadtosayfromthisside,incriticismofthemaindirectionofthe
groundforcesinNorway,weallrecognisethegreatworkdonebyboththeArmyandNavyinverydifficult
circumstances.Ibeghon.MembersoppositetobelievemewhenIsaythatifwehavepressedforachangeinthe
outlook,andifnecessaryinthecomposition,oftheGovernment,itisbecauseweknowthefeelingwhichexistsin
manypartsofthecountryalreadywithregardtotheoperationsinNorway.Idonotknowwhethermanyofmyhon.
Friendshavehadasimilarexperience,butIhavereceivedcommunicationsinthelasttwoorthreedayssincethe
returnofsomeofourforcesfromNorway,notablyfromLeicestershire,NorthamptonshireandpartsofYorkshire.
Thesedisplay,quiteclearly,notanysenseofresentmentorpaniconthepartofthepopulationbecausetheirparticular
friendsweresenttoNorway,butbecauseofthestorieswhichcamehomewiththetroopsconcerningtheirlackof
properequipmenttoenablethemtomeettheconditions,andbecauseofthelackofsupportofartillery,bothordinary
fieldpiecesandantiaircraftguns,andalso,insomecases,ammunitionfortheguns.InthesecircumstancesIdobeg
MembersinallpartsoftheHousetorecollectthatwhilstitistruethereisnopanicinthiscountryovertheserious
situationwhichhasarisen,itisalsotruethatthepeopleinthiscountry,iftheirhusbands,theirbrothers,ortheirsons
gotofightfortheircountry,andfreedom,andliberty,expectanddemandthattheyshallbesentinproperconditions
asfarasispossible,andwithpropersupportandequipment.ItisfortheGovernmenttoansweruponthesequestions
tonight.
BeforeIcometomoredetailedcommentsIshouldliketosaythat,howeverthisreverseinNorway,anditisaserious
reverse,strikesthisoneorthatone,inthisHouseoroutside,thereisonethingofwhichIammoresurethanever,and
thatisthat,takingthecountryasawhole,itisdeterminedtowinthisgreatstruggletowhichwehaveputourhand.
WhateverourcommentsorourreferencestoindividualMinistersmaybeIwantthemtobelieve,andIhopeand
believetheywillbebigenoughtoacceptourstatements,thatinthisDebatetonightourgreatobjectistodoallwe
cantoseethatthingsareputinsuchorderthattheremaybenoshadowofdoubtthatthevictorywhichwedesirefor
theseobjectivesofoursshallbeassured.IhopeMembersinallpartsoftheHouseduringthecrisiswithwhichweare
facedwillviewitinthatspirit.Wehavehadatwodaydiscussionatatimeofcrisiswhichitwouldhavebeen
impossibletohavehadinalmostanyothercountryexcepttheUnitedStatesorFrance.Generallyspeaking,thekind
offreedomwehaveenjoyedhereinthelastfewdaysisaprivilegewhichwefindisveryrarelyabusedinthisHouse.
Whenon11thAprilwehadthefirstinterimreportontheNorwegiancampaign,Ispokeverybrieflyforthe
Oppositionanddeliberatelywithheldcriticism.WhenitissuggestedattimesinthisDebate,andespeciallyyesterday,
thatwemaynotperhapshavedoneourdutyuponthissideintellingourpeopleinthecountryexactlythemagnitude
oftheproblemthiscountryisupagainst,IamafraidIdonotagree.Ifhon.MemberswilllookuptheOfficialReport
ofthatdaywhenIwasexpressingtheviewofficiallyonbehalfoftheOpposition,theywillseethatIpointedoutthat
wewerefightingnotonlyforourlibertyandindependenceatthatcrucialmomentofthewar,butthatwewere
fightingforourlives.FromthisBoxthenwemadetheappealtoallourorganisationsinthecountrytorecognisethat
wewerebeingbroughtrightupagainstwhatwastherealstruggleinwhichthiscountrywasengaged.
Whenitissaidthatwehavenotdoneasmuchaswemighthavedoneinthatdirection,donotblamethepeoplewho
sitonthissideoftheHouseiftheydonotgetthespaceinthenewspapersorthetimeonthewirelesswhichisgivento
Ministers.IwanttheHousetobeassuredthatwehavedoneourbesttoletthecountryknowexactlywhatweareup
against.Iwanttosaythisinnosenseofpartyorcarpingcriticism,butIthinkweareentitledtosaythat,onthe
contrary,ithasbeenmostlyfromMembersoftheGovernmentthatthestatementshaveemanatedwhichmayhaveled
sectionsofthepopulationtobelievethateverythingwasgoingverywell.Ithinkinthatconnectionofquiteanumber
ofspeeches,allofthemimportantintheirplace,inregardtoourwareffort.IremembertheargumentlastSeptember
astowhetherweshouldatoncebeginoureconomiceffortbyhavingrationing.Wehaveneveryettackledproperly

thequestionofrationing.Ofcourse,thosewhocouldnotlookforward,assomeofustriedtodo,couldnotimagine
thenthatwithinafewshortmonthsweshouldcometothetragicpositionofhavinglostthefoodresources,atanyrate
foratime,oftheScandinaviancountriesandDenmark,orthatweshouldsosoonbefacedwiththelossofthefurther
foodsuppliesthataretakenfromHolland.Wehave,instead,beengivenoverandoveragainthemostoptimistic
reportsastowhatarethefactsaboutthefoodsituation.
Thatisthekindofthingwhichmakespeoplebelievethattheycangothroughawarofthiskindwithpracticallylittle
inconvenience.Ifwewerereallyintentonthewareffortwhichisnecessary,weshouldtellthepeopletherealfacts
andgetthemtoorganiseonthetruebasisofwareconomy.Replieshavebeengivenagainandagaintomyhon.
FriendsonthissideoftheHouseandMembersonotherbenchestoquestionsinregardtotheeffectivecarryingonof
theMinistryofSupply,andofshipping,andtotherateofincreaseinourwareffort.Yetwhenwecametoaserious
discussiontheotherdayoftheBudgetfortheyear,wewereboundtorecognisethat,sofarfromtheseoptimistic
reportshavingbeenjustified,wewereactuallysofarbehindthatwehadunderspent150,000,000ofthemoney
whichtheChancellorhadaskedfor.Thatishardlytherightwaytotreatthepeopleiftheyaretounderstandwhatthey
areupagainst.
LetusrememberthePrimeMinister'sstatementof4thApril,whenhesaidnotonlythathefelttentimesasconfident
ofvictoryashedidatthebeginningofthewar,butthatwehadaddedenormouslytoourfightingstrengthandthat,in
consequence,wecouldfacethefuturewithacalmandsteadymind,whateveritbrings.Iamallinfavourofthecalm
andsteadymind,foritdoesnotdotogetpanicky.Thathasalwaysbeenmyviewinthesematters,butwhatIam
sayingisthatwearenotthepeoplewhohavegiventheoveroptimisticviewstothepublic.WhatthePrimeMinister
saidonthatoccasionwasthathetookthatviewbecausewehadaddedenormouslytoourfightingstrength.Butwe
havehadsomeverygraverevelationsaboutthelackoftransport,equipment,artilleryanddefenceswhichwerereally
necessarytoourforcesinconductingthecampaigninNorway.
No,Sir,IthinkitisnottheOppositionwhichhasengenderedeitherapathyoroverconfidenceinthepopulation.I
wanttobefairtotheGovernmentaboutthis,andtheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty,inaspeechinManchesterattheend
ofJanuary,gaveustherealkeynoteofthesituation.Attheendofoneofthemostremarkableappealstothe
patriotismandselfsacrificeofthenationwhichIhaveeverreadorheardhesaid:Thereisnotaweek,noraday,nor
anhourtobelost.Myword,IwishtheGovernmenthadkeptupwiththespiritofthatappeal,andsetsomethinglike
thatexampletothewholenation.Whatdidthatmean?Itmeantthatineveryaspectofourwarefforttheutmost
vigour,thefirmestdecision,thewidestmobilisationofresources,andtheswiftestofactionwhenrequiredwere
necessarytosuccessinreachingourobjectives.
IsayagainpubliclywhatIhavesaidbefore,thatIhaveverygreatrespectfortheability,thedeterminationandthe
fightingspiritoftheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltybuttonightheistoreply,attheendoftwodays'debate,asa
memberoftheWarCabinet,whichthePrimeMinisterindicatedclearlytousyesterdayhasbeenatalltimes
unanimousinitsdecisionsaboutthiscampaign.Tonight,therefore,itistheWarCabinet,includingtheFirstLord
himself,whichmustmakeitsreplytothecriticismswhichhavebeenutteredintheHouse.IftheFirstLordwillallow
metosayso,thethreecolleaguesofhiswhohaveaddressedtheHouseinthelasttwodayshavelefthimapretty
heavyjobinthelastlap.YesterdayafternoonIwasprofoundlydisappointedwiththeamountofinformationwhich
thePrimeMinister,astheheadoftheWarCabinet,wasabletogiveusatthatstage.Ifweweretohaveareasonable,
afreeandaninstructiveDebate,weoughttohavehadmuchmoreinformationfromthePrimeMinister.Therefore,
myrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouthHackney(Mr.H.Morrison)wasentitledtomakethecomplaintthatso
importantawitnessastheFirstLordshouldbelefttothelastinthisDebate.
InviewofthepaucityoftheinformationgivenbythethreeGovernmentspeakerssofar,itisnecessaryformeto
repeatsomeofthepointswhichhavebeenmadebymyrighthon.andhon.FriendsonthissideoftheHousewhich
havenotyetreceivedareply.LetustakethestatementoftheSecretaryofStateforAirthisafternoon.Hefollowed
myrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouthHackney,whohadmadeaverywidesweep,withanumberofsearching
questions,buttheSecretaryofState,althoughamemberoftheWarCabinet,wasapparentlynotpreparedtotellus

anythingatallexcepttwothings.First,hesaidthatitwasimpossibleforustohavedoneanymorethanwasdonein
Norwayintheabsenceofcontrolofaerodromes,ofwhichalltheimportantoneswereinthehandsoftheGermans.
Secondly,herightlypaidatributetotheachievementsofthebombingforcesoftheR.A.F.andofthepilotsofthe
Gladiatorsquadron.Ifanybodylooksbackonthatspeech,hewillfindthatisallwegotfromtheSecretaryofState.
Verypertinentandstraightquestionswhichmyrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouthHackneyhadputhavegone
unanswered.Ifonecastsone'smindbacktothespeechoftheSecretaryofStateforWarlastnight,onefeels,while
impressedwiththesincerityoftheSecretaryofStateIliketobefairandtospeakasIfeelthathewaswholly
inadequateinthereplieswhichhetriedtomaketotheverycogentcriticismsfromtheLeaderoftheOpposition
yesterdayandfrommyrighthon.FriendtheMemberforWakefield(Mr.Greenwood).
InthesecircumstancesIhopethattheHousewillforgivemeifItakeafewminutestodirectsomequestionstothe
FirstLordifheisabout.[Interruption.]Well,heoughttobehere.Perhapssomebodywilltakeanoteofmy
questionssothathewillbeabletoanswerthem.Firstofall,Iask:Whatwasthepositioninregardtopolicypriorto
theinvasionofNorwaythatistosay,whatinformationhadweofGermanintentions,andwhatwereourpreparations
inanticipationofthoseevents?WehavehadagoodmanyquestionsputfromdifferentpartsoftheHouseaboutour
intelligenceservice,andIhopethatIshallbeansweredinthelightofthosequestions.Ilistenedtomyrighthon.
FriendandLeaderyesterday,puttingthepointwithverygreatrelevancewhetherornottherewasinexistenceasfar
backas1926aproperlypreparedplanbytheGermanHighCommandfortheinvasionofNorwayandSweden,and
whetherthatplanoftheGermanHighCommandwasknowntotheBritishStaff.Wehavehadnoansweratalltothat
question.Thesourceofourinformationisunimpeachable,and,ifnecessary,IampreparedtolettheFirstLordofthe
Admiraltyknowwhatitis,butIdonotwanttosayithereintheHouse.
Ifthatwasso,whatwastheplanoftheWarCabinetandthestaff,tocounterthoseknownGermanplans?Weoughtto
haveananswertothisquestion.IstheFirstLordcoming?Whereishe?Onewonderswhethertogoon,inthese
circumstances.
ThePrimeMinisterMyrighthon.Friendwillbehereinamoment.
Mr.AlexanderNowthattheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyhascomein,IrepeatthatIamputtingveryparticularlyto
himcertainquestionsbaseduponinformationwhichwebelievetobeunimpeachableanditisofgreatimportanceto
askthesequestionspersonallyofhiminordertodosoeffectively.TheinformationisthattheGermanHigh
CommandwereknowntohavemadeplanslongsincefortheinvasionofNorwayandSwedenandthatthoseplans
wereknowntotheBritishStaff.Whatplanshadwemadetomeetsuchcircumstances?Ifnecessary,Iwilltellthe
FirstLordaftertheDebatethesourceofourinformation,butweareassuredthattheBritishStaffwereawareofthe
Germanplans,andtheythereforeoughttohavehadsomeknowledgeofhowtheywouldactiftheGermansputtheir
plansintooperation.Itwouldbeextraordinarythatweshouldhavetodevelopaplanandthatifwelaidourminesin
Norwegianterritorialwaters,theywouldnotstopthecounterstrokebyGermany.Themoreonehaslistenedtothe
statementsofMinisters,themoreonemustfeelthattheGovernmentweretakencompletelybysurprisewhenthe
Germanssetoffon7thAprilfortheirexpedition.
Inthecircumstances,mayIputanotherquestiontotheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty?Oncethenewswasreceivedon
7thAprilofthedespatchoftheGermanexpedition,whatwasthefirstplanofcampaignoftheWarCabinetorwas
thereaplanofcampaign?IhavelistenedrightthroughthelastDebate,andwhatdisturbedmemorethananything
elsewastheapparentabsenceofarealplanfordealingwiththesituation.Theremayhavebeenverygreattechnical
reasonsforwhatwasdone,butIcannotunderstandhow,aftertheextremelygallantactionofoursailorsandthe
subsequentnavalvictoryovertheGermandestroyers,whichvictorywasledbytheforcesunderthe"Warspite,"the
attackwasnotpressedhomeandpossessiontaken,notonlyofNarvikanditsresources,butofthenearbyaerodrome,
theabsenceofwhichaerodromeandaerodromeserviceswehaveheardsomuchaboutinthiscampaign.Ifallthathad
beendone,Ithinktherewasmuchtobesaidforgoingandgettingcompletecontrolofthisportwhichifnottakenwas
likelytobethesourceofexportofironore,toSweden.Fromthatcentre,arestingplaceinthebestfiord,youcould
havedoneagreatdealofmoppingupthecoastproceedingfromtheNorthtotheSouth.

WastheexpeditionthatactuallytookplaceashorttimeaftertotheWestofNorwayalwaysintended,orwasitan
afterthought?ThemoreIhavelistenedduringthepasttwodays,themoreIfeelthatthefirstideawastoconcentrate
onNarvikandthatthisexpeditiontotheWestofNorwaywasanafterthought.Ifso,itmayperhapsexplainagreat
dealoftheamountofimprovisationwhichwasmadefortheplans,troopsandmaterialstodealwiththesituation.Or
wasitreallyintendedtobethebeginningofamajorcampaigninNorway?Ifitwasintendedtobethebeginningofa
majorcampaigninNorway,mayweasktheFirstLordwhethertherewasaplanwhichhadbeenthoughtoutfirstin
relationtotherequiredmaintenanceofacontinuousferrytoandfromtheSouthofNorwayandthiscountry,and
requiringtheconstantprotectionfromnavalforcesoversuchdistancesinvastlydifferentcircumstancesfromthe
maintenanceoftheferrywhichwehavetokeepgoingintheEnglishChannelforourtroopstoFrance?Beforea
decisionwastakentomakeanylandingintheTrondheimarea,werethesecontingenciesfullyweighedinconjunction
withthecontingencieslikelytoariseinotherareas?
Inviewofthestatementwhichhasbeenmadeaboutthenecessityformaintainingforceselsewhere,inthe
Mediterraneanandinotherseas,letmesaythatIcouldunderstandtheseconsiderationsbeingregardedasof
fundamentalimportanceiftheywerethoughtofbeforelaunchingamajorcampaignintheTrondheimarea,butI
cannotunderstandthesameimportancebeingattachedtothismatterafterthecampaignhadbeenlaunchedandifin
themeantimethebalanceofnavalstrengthhadbeenverymuchalteredinourfavourbythehugedestructionof
Germannavalshipsandancillaryvessels.IshouldliketoknowfromtheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltywhatwasthe
exactpositioninthismatter.HavingmadeadecisiontolandintheTrondheimarea,mayweasktheFirstLordtotell
theHousebecausenobodyhastoldtheHouseeffectivelyyetwhywastheattacknotmadedirectlyupon
Trondheim?WhywastheattacknotmadealsoupontheGermannavalforcesremainingintheTrondheimFiord
which,aswehaveonlylearnedsince,becamesuchadeadlymenacetoourtroopsintheNamsosareawhowere
approachingtoattackTrondheimontheland?MayweasktheFirstLord:WasitaCabinetdecisiontoavoidsuchan
action,orwasthatdecisionmadebecausetheCabinetwassatisfiedthatlandingsinsmallportsmanymilesawayfrom
Trondheim,illequippedandwithunsatisfactoryfacilities,wouldprovetobesatisfactory?
Withregardtotheportsandtheunsatisfactoryfacilities,IwouldliketosaythatIhaveneverlistenedtoamore
unconvincingstatementthanthatgivenbytheSecretaryofStateforWarlastnight.Itisinconceivabletomethatthe
exactfactsabouttheconditionsoftheseportsandtheirequipmentwerenotknownwithout,astheSecretaryofState
suggested,havinganewandimmediatereconnaissance.IhadalwaysunderstoodandImyselfhavehadexperience
inaServiceDepartmentthatmattersofthatkindcouldbedisposedofbytheFirstLordoftheAdmiraltyandthe
SecretaryofStatethroughtheAttachs'departmentand,ifnotthroughthatdepartment,certainlythroughtheConsular
department.PerhapstheSecretaryofStatedidnotthinkitworthwhiletoasktheConsulardepartmentwhatwasthe
equipment.Atanyrate,therewasunjustifieddelayinthesemattersbecauseofthelackofreconnaissancetofindout
whethertherewassufficientequipmentattheseportsoflanding.Tohavetocarryoutsuchreconnaissanceatsucha
stageindicatesacompletelackofforesight.IhaveputthesequestionsabouttheexpeditiontoNorwayfirst,because
thatwaswherethemainactiontookplace,andtookplacewithresultswhichendedinadecisiontoevacuate.
TheFirstLordhasalsotoansweraquestionofveryparticularimportance.Ihopehewillanswerthisquestionifheis
abletodoso,andifhehasnottorefusetodosointhepublicinterest.Iwanttobefair.Ihavealwaysunderstood,in
mystudyofnavalaffairs,thatthefirstdutyoftheFleetinwaristoseekoutandtodestroythefleetoftheenemy.
ThatthiswasbegungallantlyatNarvikisquitecertain.ThatotheractionstookplaceinScandinavianwaterswhich
redoundasmuchtothelustreofthemenoftheRoyalNavyasanyinourhistory,isalsocertain.Butwas
considerationgiven,directlyuponreceivingnewsoftheGermaninvasionofNorway,tothequestionofdealingwith
enemysurfaceshipsintheKattegatandSkagerrak,andtherebydestroyingasmuchaspossibleoftheenemyfleet
while,atthesametime,givinganopportunitytotheNorwegiantroopstoconsolidatetheirpositions?Whileour
submarinesdidagreatpieceofworkinthecuttingofenemycommunicationsandinharassingtheenemy,itwasquite
impossibletomakeanyreallyeffectiveattacksuponthefullflowofreinforcements,equipment,andheavyartillery
intoSouthernNorwayunlesstheFleetwereprepared,subjecttorisk,totakethenormalcourseofsendingsurface
shipsintothatarea,inordertopreventtheactionoftheenemy'ssurfaceshipsfrominterferingundulywiththework
ofoursubmarines.

IhadnotthepleasureofhavingthepresenceoftheFirstLordwhenIwasreferringtotheservicesoftheofficersand
menofoursubmarines.TheirserviceshavebeentrulymagnificentandIhopethatatsomedate,nottoofardistant,
itwillbepossiblefortheAdmiraltytogetthepermissionoftheMinistryofInformationtogivesomeofthesignals
whichwerereceivedbythesubmarineofficersbutweknowthat,overandoveragain,thosesubmarineswere
subjecttotherepeatedattacksofenemysurfaceships,destroyersandcruisers,andtoattackbymeansofdepth
chargesallthetime.IftheFleetwasdoingitsproperjob,itisarguedbymanynavalofficerstowhomIhavespoken,
thesurfaceshipsshouldhavebeenthere,meetingtheenemysurfaceshipsandinterruptingtheenemy'slinesof
communication.IasktheFirstLord,Wasthesendingoftheseshipsintothesewatersconsideredtobeeither
unnecessaryortoorisky?Icannotbelievethatitwasregardedasbeingunnecessary,and,onthequestionofriskthis
isperhapsthepointonwhichtheFirstLordmaynotfeelatlibertytoreplyImustsaythatifwearetolookback
uponthecampaignintheScandinavianwatersasbeingthefirstgreatoccasionundermodernconditionsofwarin
whichthewholescaleofouractionhasbeenchangedbytheconsiderationoftheriskofnewkindsofwarfare,it
meansthat,foreverysubsequentnavalactionthatweundertakeduringthewholeofthiswar,wemaybefacedwith
thesameconditions,thesamenecessityforconsiderationsofthatkindgravelyaffectingwhatmaybethe
effectivenessofourseapower.Weoughttoknowmoreaboutwhetheritwasconsideredtooriskytosendoursurface
shipstoattacktheenemyinthatway.
Whatwastheconsiderationgiventomeasuresforcounteractingthegrowingattacksfromtheairagainstourforcesin
Norway?IlistenedtothespeechoftheSecretaryofStateforAirtoday.Hetoldusabouttheeffortsmadetogetan
aerodrome,andhowanimprovisationwasmade.Hedidnottellusmuch,bywayoffact,astothelossesincurred,
eitherbyusorbytheenemy.Hegaveusoneortwoparticularinstancesofactions,liketheactionoftheGladiator
squadron,butweoughttohavemoreinformationthanwehavebeengivenaboutthat.But,whenwehadoncegotat
thepointofknowingthatthewholepositionofourlandforceshadbecomeendangered,willtheFirstLordtellus
whethertheWarCabinetreconsideredthequestionofattackingTrondheim?Onthispointtwothingsareoutstanding
inmymind.Thefirstisthespeechofthehon.andgallantMemberforNorthPortsmouth(SirR.Keyes),whoput
particularlythefactthatfromhisanglestrongrepresentationscontinuedtobemadetotheAdmiraltyastothe
practicabilityofthatnavalattackuponTrondheim.TheFirstLordwillagreethatthehon.andgallantAdmiralwasby
nomeanstheonlysourceofrepresentationtotheAdmiraltyaboutthisparticularsphereofoperations,andweought
toknowwhether,inthatconditionofthecampaign,reconsiderationwasgiventothatproblem.
TheSecretaryofStateforAirmadereferencethisafternoontothesurveyingforalternativeaerodromes.Ihavenot
yetheardfromhimwhenthesurveywasputintooperation,howlongitlasted,whetheritiscontinuingandwhether,
apartfromthefrozenlaketowhichhereferred,therehasbeenanyresultofhissurvey.Ireallymustsaythatwiththe
informationthatwehaveuptothepresentofthereportedprogressoftheGermanforces,first,uptoMosjenandnow
upasfarNorthasMo,IshouldfeelverymuchmoreinclinedtobelievewhatissaidbytheGovernmentastotheir
determinationstilltostandbyNorway,ifIcouldthinkthattheyweregettingalternativeairaccommodationnowin
theNorthofNorwayandmakingareallydefensivecontactwiththeNorwegiantroopswhoarestillfighting.
IshouldliketoaskhowfartheExpeditionaryForcewasprovided,first,withtroopsand,secondly,withequipment
andarmaments.IreferredbrieflybeforetheFirstLordcameintotheChambertothestatementswhicharebeing
receivedfromthefamiliesofmenwhohavenowreturnedfromNorwaywithregardtoequipmentandarmament.On
this,myrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouthHackneythisafternoonaskedquestionswhichhavenotuptothe
presentbeenanswered.IfeelthattheOpposition,infact,thewholeHouseareentitledtohavethesequestions
answered.Inthefirstplace,itwasmentionedthatthelandingofantiaircraftgunswaslate.Incertaininstancesitwas
reportedtous,and,Ibelieve,inthoroughlygoodfaithcommunicatedtotheLeaderoftheOpposition,thattroops
werethereinsomecasesawholeweeksubjecttoattackfromtheairandwithouttheadvantageofantiaircraftguns,
andinothercasesthatthegunswhicharrivedtherehadnoprojectorswiththem.Whynot?Weoughtnottohavean
expeditionofthisimportancesentintosuchadifficultcountryandagainstsuchconditionsofairattackwithalackof
supportofthiskind.
IhavebeenparticularlyaskedtoputtotheGovernmentaquestionastowhatweretherealprovisionsforfeedingthe

troopsthatweresenttoNorway.Ifindthatoneofthemostheftycomplaintscomingfromrelativesduringthelastfew
daysisveryoftenthattheywerewithoutfood.Itmightwellbethat,withthesebombingattackswhichdescended
uponcertainareas,perhapsdumpsoftransportandstoresweredestroyed,andtherewastemporaryshortage.I
understandthat,butIhopethatwearenotgoingtohearthattherewassuchmismanagementthatveryoftenthemain
storesthemselveswerenotavailable.
Whatwastherelationshipandagainmyrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouthHackneyaskedthisquestionthis
afternoonwithregardtothecommandinNorway?WasthereproperunityofcommandbetweentheNorthWestern
ExpeditionaryForceandtheNorwegianforces?Ifso,howwasiteffected?Inviewofwhatisbeingsaidaboutthe
futureofthecampaigninNorway,whatistherelationshipnow?Ithinkweareentitledtoknowthat,andIamsurethe
FirstLordoughttoanswerthis:WhatGermannavalforcesremaininNorwegianfiordstonight?Germanvesselsare
apparentlystilloutinthosefiords.Whatstepshavebeentakentodestroythem?Becausetheyshouldbedestroyed.
WhenthoseshipscameoutofGermanwatersIthinkeverybodyfeltthatatlasttheenemyhadshownhisnoseoutof
portandthatnowwasthetimetogoforhim.Itiscertainlynotahappythingtonighttofeelthatnotonlyhavewe
beendrivenoutofNorwaysofarbutthatGermanshipsareactuallyinNorwegianfiords.
MylastquestiontotheFirstLordandIhopehewillnotthinkIhavebeenoverburdeninghimwithquestions,
althoughwehavenothadmanyanswersyetis:Whatarewedoingnow,thisweek,inregardtoactiveandeffective
stepstocaptureNarvikandconsolidateourpositionthere?TheFirstLordsaidhehopedIwouldnotexpecthimto
answerthat.AllthatIsayisthatIcertainlydonotaskhimtogivemedetailsofhisoperationalplans,butIdofeelthat
thiscountryneedstobeassuredthatwearereallygoingouttocapturetheplace.Itwasverydisturbingtoreada
telegramwithregardtothatareainthelastfewdays,anditistothatpointthatIwanttheFirstLordtodirecthis
attention.IthinkthereisnodoubtinthemindsofthemajorityoftheMembersoftheHousethatthiscampaign,while
itdoesnotgiverealcauseforpanicinagreatnationlikeours,isaveryseriousreverse.Itisseriouswithregardtothe
additionalstrategicaladvantagesandwithregardtowhatthatreversecarrieswithittotheenemy.
Iregrettosaythatitisbringinghometothemindsofthepeopleatlargethedisappointmentandfailureswehave
receivedatthehandsoftheAdministration,asatpresentled.ThePrimeMinisterintervenedratherindignantlythis
afternoonwithreferencetothedecision,madeknowntotheHousebymyrighthon.FriendtheMemberforSouth
Hackney,thatbecauseofourdissatisfactionatthegeneralposition,weareaskingtheHousetodivideuponthe
MotionfortheAdjournmentinordertoexpress,aswehavethedutytoexpressinthatvote,ourrealviewofthe
situation.IhaveheardanumberofcommentssincefromvariouspartsoftheHouse,butitisnottheoccasionforme
tonight,norhaveIthetime,toproducearecitalofthefactswhichmakemanyofmyhon.Friendsand,asIgather,
manyMembersinallpartsoftheHouse,feelastheydoabouttheneedforthevotetonight.Butwhenweare
consideringthepositioncreatedinthisgreatstruggle,atatimewhenfollowinguponthisreverseandnotonlybecause
ofthisreversewearefacingoneofthemostdangerousperiodsinthehistoryofthiscountry,itisagreatpitythatthe
PrimeMinistershouldatoncehavejumpedupandintervened,mostly,asIthought,uponthebasisofhisfriendships
intheHouse.[Hon.Members:"No!"]Ithinkhesaid,"IhavefriendsintheHouse,"andheindicatedthatbythevote
therewouldbearecordofwhothosefriendswere.
Mr.GeorgeBalfourrose
Mr.AlexanderIhaveonlyoneortwomomentsleft,andIhavenotinterruptedanysinglespeaker.Itisveryunfairto
beinterruptedindealingwithsuchanimportantmatter.Thehon.MemberforHampstead(Mr.G.Balfour)hasno
righttosaythatwhatIhavesaidisquiteuntrue.Itistrue.
Mr.NeilMaclean(Glasgow,Govan)CallhimtoOrder.
Mr.SpeakerIsthehon.Membertalkingtome?
Mr.MacleanIamtalkingtoyou,Sir.
Mr.SpeakerInterruptionshavenotonlybeenfromonesideoftheHouse.

Mr.AlexanderIapologisetotheFirstLordifIhavetotakeanotherfewmoments,butIwanttodealwiththismatter
intherightspirit.IamsurethatthePrimeMinisterdoesnotresentmypresentationofthecase,butifhedoes,thenhis
colleaguewillbeabletodealwithit.TheimpressionwhichwasleftuponourmindswasthatthePrimeMinister
madehisappealonthebasisofhisfriendshipsintheHouseandindicatedthatbytakingavotetheywouldknowwho
theirfriendswere.IthinkIamwithintherecollectionofhon.Members.AllthatIcansayuponthatmatteristhis.
PerhapsIamusuallyinclinedtobeprovocativeinthestatementofacase,perhapsIstateacasestrongly,butonthis
occasionIlookuponthevotewehavetotakefromthepointofviewonlyoftheconditionsandthefutureofour
country.Whenagreatpoetinthelastwarwrote:WhodiesifEnglandlives?hewasstatingsomethingwhichthrobs
theheartofmanypeopletodaywhoarefacingperhapsagreaterthreattofreedomandlibertythanwasthecasein
1914.Ifitisnecessaryatthisoranyothertimeforustochangepersonalitiesindealingwiththepoliticaldirectionof
thecountry,orthosewhoaredealingwiththetechnicaldirectionoftheprocessesofthewar,then,intheinterestsof
thenationandintheinterestsoffreedom,thosechangesshouldtakeplace.Iwanttoaddthis.SincethePrime
Ministermadehisinterventiontoday,IhavehadmorethanonecontactwithrepresentativeneutralsinLondon,who
feelthatifthismatterweretobejudgeduponthebasisofputtingpersonalfriendshipandpersonalitiesbeforethe
questionofreallywinningthewar,weshoulddoagreatdealtoalienatethesympathythatremainswithusinneutral
spheres.
10.11p.m.
TheFirstLordoftheAdmiralty(Mr.Churchill)Therighthon.GentlemantheMemberforHillsborough(Mr.
Alexander)hasplacedtheHouseundersomeobligation,becausehehasdevotedthegreaterpartofhisspeechtothe
topicwhichwassetoutasbeingthestapleofourdiscussionduringthesetwodaysofDebateImean,theNorwegian
campaign.HehasaskedmeagreatmanyquestionsIthinkabout20andwhileIhavetriedtokeepacheckofas
manyasIcould,IamafraidthatifImademyspeechmerelyacatalogueofanswersitwouldhardlybecouchedin
thatformwhichtheHousewouldexpect,andofcourse,therearemanyofthosequestionswhichcouldnotbe
answeredwithoutopeningupsomeothertopicsandotherchainsofinquiry.Therefore,Iwouldprefertoanswerthe
principalquestionsinthegeneralaccountwhichIwillattempttogivetotheHouse.Therighthon.Gentleman's
speechdealtwiththeNorwegiancampaignthatisthefirstpartoftheDebatethisevening,anditisthepartofthe
DebatetowhichIintendtodevotemyselfinthefirstinstance.Butataboutfiveo'clockquiteanewissuewassprung
upontheHouse.WewereinvitedtoconsiderallthefaultswhichtheGovernmenthavecommittedinthelastthree,
fourorfiveyears,andtoconsiderthequestionofavoteofconfidence,aVoteofCensure,whichistobetakenquite
unexpectedly,withonlythislittlenotice,upontheAdjournmenttonight.ThatisthesecondpartoftheDebate,andI
willdealwiththatwhenIcometoit.
IwouldliketosayafewthingsaboutthesubjectoftheNorwegiancampaignandalsoaboutthegeneralwar.Inthis
warwearefrequentlyasked,"Whydoyounottaketheinitiative,whydoyourepeatedlywaitandwonderwherethe
enemyisgoingtostrikeyounext?"Obviously,hehasmanychoicesopen.Wealwaysseemtobewaiting,andwhen
wearestruck,thenwetakesomeaction."Why,"itisasked,"isthenextblownotgoingtobestruckbyBritain?"The
reasonforthisseriousdisadvantageofournothavingtheinitiativeisonewhichcannotspeedilyberemoved,anditis
ourfailureinthelastfiveyearstomaintainorregainairparityinnumberswithGermany.Thatisanoldstory,andit
isalongstoryaverylongstory,letmeremindtheHousebecauseforthefirsttwoyears,whenI,withsome
friends,waspressingthisupontheHouse,itwasnotonlytheGovernmentwhoobjected,butboththeOpposition
parties.Inthelasttwoyearsorso,theycameroundandgavegreatandvaluableaid,butthefactremainsthatwe
failedtoachievetheairparitywhichwasconsideredtobevitaltooursecurity.Thefactofournumericaldeficiencyin
theair,inspiteofoursuperiorityinquality,bothinmenandmaterialwhichis,Ibelieve,establishedhas
condemnedus,andwillcondemnusforsometimetocome,toagreatdealofdifficultyandsufferinganddanger,
whichwemustendurewithfirmness,untilmorefavourableconditionscanbeestablished,asassuredlytheywillbe
established.
Ithinkhemustbeawisemanwhothinksheknowsallaboutthiswar,orwhoisnotpreparedtoalterhisscaleof
valuesasneweventsunfold.Itisnousethinkingofthiswarintermsofthelastwar.Thepoweroftheairhasgreatly

affectedsomebelieveithasdecisivelyaffectedthemovementsoffleetsandarmies.Wemustnotexaggeratethis
newfactorIfindmyselfalmostresentingtheexaggerationofthisnewfactorbutneithermustwerefusetogiveit
itsdeadlydue.
Forinstance,therighthon.GentlemanaskedmeanumberofquestionsabouttheSkagerrakandwhywehadnotcut
thecommunicationsthere.Ourpresentnavalpreponderance,itissaid,oughttomakeitfeasibleforustodominatethe
SkagerrakwithoursurfaceshipsandthuscutthecommunicationswithOslofromthefirstmomentandcontinuously.
Buttheimmenseenemyairstrengthwhichcanbebroughttobearuponourpatrollingcrafthasmadethismethodfar
toocostlytobeadopted.Itcouldonlybeenforcedbymaintainingastandingsurfacepatrolandapatrol,markyou,not
ofdestroyers,becauseitisclosetotheenemyairbasesanditisalsoclosetotheircruisersandtheirbattlecruisersof
whichtheystillretaintwo.Consequently,veryimportantforceswouldhavetobeemployed,inordertomaintaina
steadysurfacepatrol,andthelosseswhichwouldbeinflicteduponthatpatrolfromtheairwould,undoubtedly,very
soonconstituteanavaldisaster.Wehavetofaceafactlikethat.
Then,itissaid,"Insteadofmaintainingaregularpatrol,youmighthavehadaraid."Hereagain,airstrength,inthis
periodwhenthenightsarealreadyshortening,impedestheapproachingforcesandeitherthetransportsareremoved
fromtheareaandsentbacktotheirports,oradequateforcesareprovidedbytheenemytodealwiththeapproaching
raid.Iamsorry,indeed,thatthingsshouldbeso,butitwouldbeveryfoolishinthesedays,whenwearerepeatedly
asked,inalmosteveryspeech,tofacefacts,iftheywereignored.We,therefore,adoptedthesubmarineblockadeas
theonlymethodatourdisposal,andindoingthis,Ifollowedtheopinionofournavalauthorities,whoareresponsible
forhandlingthefleetsnotonlyfromtheAdmiraltybutontheshipsatsea.
Hereletmesayawordaboutresponsibleopinion.Thereisagreatdealofdifferencebetweenbeingresponsiblefor
givinganorder,onwhichthelossofseveralvaluableshipsmightswiftlyfollow,andmerelyexpressinganopinion,
howeverwellinformed,howeversincere,howevercourageous,withoutsuchresponsibility.Ihavetobeguidedinthe
advicewhichIoffertotheCabinet,byresponsiblenavalexpertopinion,justastherighthon.Gentlemanwouldbe
guidedbyit,ifhewereoccupyingtheplacewhichheonceoccupiedwithaveryconsiderablemeasureofnaval
esteem.ThereforewelimitedouroperationsintheSkagerraktothesubmarines.Inordertomakethisworkas
effectiveaspossible,theusualrestrictionswhichwehaveimposedontheactionsofoursubmarineswererelaxed.As
ItoldtheHouse,allGermanshipsbydayandallshipsbynightweretobesunkasopportunityserved.Thisstatement
wasmostfalselyandgrotesquelytwistedandtravestedintoasortofpromisethatallGermanshipswouldbesunk.I
haveseenanechocomingfromtheUnitedStates.Noonecouldeverhavegivensoabsurdapromiseasthat.Isaidthe
tollwouldbeheavy,andheavyindeedithasbeen.Therehasbeenaghastlysuccess7,000or8,000menhavebeen
drowned,andthousandsofcorpseshavebeenwashedupontherocksattheentranceofOslo.Atthefootofthe
lighthouse,themostfrightfulsceneshavebeenwitnessed.Butwhatdoesthelossof7,000or8,000menmattertoa
totalitarianState?WhatdotheymattertoaGovernmentsuchasthatwhichwearefighting?Theyarenotannounced,
nocriticismisallowed,nomurmurisallowedandnonews.Ifthereisacryorawhimper,itisprobablydealtwithby
abrutalblow.Thereforethatheavylossdoesnotoperateinthemoralorpsychologicalsphereatallatthepresent
time.
Well,then,thequestionwasaskedbyaveryinfluentialperson,notaMemberoftheHouse,Mr.Bevinwhoisa
friendofmine,workinghardforthepubliccause,andamanwhohasmuchgifttohelpandwhoaskedinapublic
speechWhy,whenwewentintoNarvikonthefirstoccasion,didyounotsendabigshipinwiththedestroyersand
CaptainWarburtonLee?Ithinkthatitshouldhaveitsanswer,andIwillgiveit.Thereasonwasthattheonlyship
availablewasabattlecruiser,andwehaveonlythreebattlecruisers,andwefeltthatitwouldbeaverygreatdamage
tothebalanceoftheFleetifwelostabattlecruiser.Wethoughtitverylikelythatashipgoinginmightbelost.We
sentthe"Warspite"therebutitdidnotlooksoeasythedaybeforeitwasdoneasthedayafter.Cravenandinept
authoritiesattheAdmiraltywhotookthatriskwereveryrelievedtofindthattherewerenocontrolledminefieldslaid,
nospecialtrapsofonekindoranotherinthefiord,nodestroyerlurkinginsomeanglewhereitcouldfireitsbouquet
oftorpedoesatthe"Warspite."Wewereverygladtoknowthatasubmarinewhichfollowedupwaseffectivelysunk
byanaircraftofthe"Warspite"herself.Alltheseareverydifferentthingswhenlookedatbeforehandthantheyare

whenlookedatafter.Butwhatwouldhavebeensaidifithadbeensunk?Whowasthemadmanwhosentoneofour
mostvaluableshipsintonarrow,congestedwaterslikethesewhereitcouldeasilyfallapreytothemanydangers
surroundingit?Itiseasywhenyouhavenoresponsibility.Ifyoudare,andforfeitisexacted,itismurderofour
sailorsandifyouareprudent,youarecraven,cowardly,ineptandtimid.
ThenwewereaskedwhywedidnotgointoBergen,Trondheimandotherportsinthefirstfewhours.Myrighthon.
FriendtheMemberforSparkbrook(Mr.Amery)saidwehadbeenratherledastrayordecoyedawaybythetwo
Germanheavybattlecruiserswhichcameouttosea,andthattheywereafakeandalure.Theymayhavebeenafake
andalure,buttheywerecertainlyareality.Ifwehadtriedtosendtransportscarryingtroopsacrosswaterswhere
they,althoughunlocated,wereknowntobelurking,theymighthavecutthewholesquadronoftransportstorags.It
wouldhavebeenaverytragicincident,andwewerehappilysparedfromit.Theonlyobjectofgoingintothesefiords,
unlessyouhadtroopstolandandfighttheGermanswhohadjustarrived,wouldhavebeentodestroysuchenemy
cruisersanddestroyersaswerethere.ThesewerelargelydestroyedfromtheairbytheFleetAirArm.Asforthetwo
thatwerelurkinginTrondheimharbour,onewasadestroyerandoneasmalltorpedoboat,andtheywereoverlooked
bytheair.ItwouldnothavebeenjustifiabletoundertaketoforceTrondheimFiordmerelyforthepurposeofcleaning
upthatverysmallitem.
SirR.KeyesMyrighthon.Friendisawarethatthisdestroyerandtorpedoboatdiddefeatourmilitarythrustfrom
Namsos?
Mr.ChurchillIamsuremyhon.andgallantFriendisalwaysaccurateinwhathesays,butthatisnotthepointIam
discussingnow.Thequestionwaswhetherattheoutsetweshouldhavesentthesevesselsin.Icanseethatthisisa
matterthatmightwellhavebeendone,butthecostwouldhavebeendisproportionatetotheparticularadvantage,and
itcouldnothavebeenforeseenthatthesetwosmallcraftwouldhaveplayedtheparttheydidplayinthesubsequent
operations.
InowcometothemuchmoreimportantquestionofTrondheim.Thereisnodisputethatitwasourdutytodoourbest
tohelptheNorwegiansandthatthecaptureanddefenceofTrondheimwasthebestwaytodoit.Myeyehasalways
beenfixedonNarvikthere,itseemedtome,isaportwhichmayleadtosomedecisiveachievementinthewar.But
whentheGermanoutrageoccurred,thereisnodisputethatwewereboundtogototheaidoftheNorwegiansandthat
Trondheimwastheplace.AplanwaspreparedbythejointstaffsfortwodiversionarylandingsatNamsosand
AndalsnesandforadirectlandinginTrondheimFiordofaforcesuperiortothatoftheenemywhichhadseizedthat
port.Thiswasundoubtedlyahazardousoperation.Thefortsattheentrancepresentednoseriousdifficulty,andthe
gunswerenotofaveryformidablecharacterbutthefactthataverylargenumberofvaluableshipswouldhavetobe
continuouslyexposedformanyhourstoclosebombingmeantthatgrievouslossesmightbesustained.Andalthough
perhapsonlyoneintwoorthreehundredbombshitwehavehadscoresofshipsunderhoursandhoursofbombing
yeteverynowandagainthereisahit,andtheinjuryisdisproportionatealtogethertothepowerandvalueofthe
aircraftwhichinflictsit.Nevertheless,theNavywereperfectlyreadytocarrythetroopsin,andnodoubtwas
entertainedabouttheirabilitytodoso.
Why,then,wasthisplan,whichwastimedfor25thApril,abandoned?Itwasabandonedbecause,onthe17th,thetwo
diversionarylandingshadmadegoodprogress,anditseemedmucheasiertocaptureTrondheimbythismethodthan
toincurtheheavycostofdirectattack.ImustmakeitperfectlyclearthattheAdmiraltyneverwithdrewtheirofferor
consideredtheoperationimpracticableinthenavalaspect.Gravedoubtswere,however,entertainedbythemilitaryas
tothepossibilityofmakinganopposedlandingunderheavyhostileairsuperiority,apartfromtheexistenceof
machineguns,andinthesecircumstancestheChiefsofStaff,andnotonlytheChiefsofStaffbuttheirDeputies,or
Vicechiefs,astheyarenowcalled,withouttheslightestdifferenceofopinion,sofarasIamaware,advisedthatit
wouldbelesscostlyandsurertoconvertthediversionarylandingsintothemainattack.Noonehastheslightestright
tosuggestthattheNavywithdrewfromthisundertakingorthatthepoliticiansoverruledtheAdmirals.Itakethe
fullestresponsibilityandsodothePrimeMinisterandtheotherMinistersconcernedforhavingacceptedthe
unanimousviewofourexpertadvisers.Ithoughttheywererightatthetimeandontheinformationwethenhad,andI

haveseennoreasontoaltermyviewbywhatIhavelearnedsince.
However,thesituationrapidlybecameworse.Inthefirstplace,theGermanthrustNorthofOslodevelopedenormous
strength.TheNorwegianswereunabletoholdthemountainpasses,andtheydidnotdestroytheroadsandrailways.
Bythe25thor26ththepossibilityofthearrivalintheregionSouthofTrondheimofverylargeGermanforces,
thoroughlyequippedandmaintained,hadtobeforeseen.Atthesametimetheintenseandcontinuousbombingofthe
basesatNamsosandAndalsnespreventedthelandingatthesesmallfishingportsofanylargereinforcements,evenof
theartilleryfortheinfantrywehadalreadylanded,andofthemanysuppliesforthetroopsalreadylanded.Itwas,
therefore,necessarytowithdrawthetroops,orleavethemtobedestroyedbyoverwhelmingforce.Thedecisionto
withdrawwasundoubtedlysound,andtheextricationandthereembarkationofthose12,000menforthatisall
therewere,lessthanadivisionwasaccomplishedwithverygreatskilland,Imayalsoadd,withverygoodluck.
Now,thatisthestoryofwhathappened,andwhy.AsIhavesaid,alltheresponsibleNavalandMilitaryandAir
authorities,togetherwiththeMinistersprincipallyconcerned,andtheWarCabinet,wereateverystageunitedandI
expectthatifanydozenMembersofthisHousehadbeenbroughtintothismatterdaybydaytheywouldequallyhave
beenunited.Butthatdoesnot,ofcourse,endthequestion.
Mr.H.MorrisonIamsorrytointerrupt,butthisreallyisimportant.Ididasktherighthon.Gentlemancategorically
whetherthenavalauthoritiesonthespotatTrondheim,withalltheirexperienceofaerialbombardmentofships,were
willingandanxioustoenterTrondheimandwhethertheirdesirewasoverruledornotsanctionedbyWhitehall.
Mr.ChurchillIamnotonlydenyingthat,butIammakingamuchstrongerdenial.Therewerenonavalauthoritieson
thespotatTrondheim.WehadnotgotournavalauthoritiesonthespotatTrondheimbutnoauthoritythatwe
consultedorwereadvisedby,differed,sofarasIamawareandIdealwiththeresponsibleofficersfortheadvice
tenderedbytheChiefsofStaff,supportedbytheirofficers.Idonotthinkthatsettlesthequestion.Ministersarenot
shelteredbythefactthattheyaccepttheirexperts'adviceontheotherhand,theyareveryunshelterediftheyover
ridethatadvice.Butwhethertheywereshelteredorunsheltered,theresultswereverybadandverydisappointing,and
thequestionarosewhether,ifwepersistedinthedirectnavalattack,eventswouldhaveturnedoutbetter.Personally,I
havealwaysbelievedthattheNavywouldhavecarriedtroopsintoTrondheimFiord,andthatthetroopswouldhave
beenabletomaketheirlodgmentintheFiordandcometogripswiththeenemy.Iwouldhavebeenverygladtotake
allpossibleresponsibilityforthestep,providedthatitwasproperlysupportedbyexpertopinion.
EvenifweassumethatthatviewisrightandthatwecouldhavebeenmastersofTrondheim,oritsruinsforsuchit
wouldhavespeedilybecome,by25thApril,thequestionimmediatelyarose:Couldbehavebroughttobeara
sufficientArmySouthofTrondheimtoholdtheinvaderordrivehimoff?Itistruethatweshouldhavehad,asthe
righthon.Gentlemanhassaid,onegoodaerodrometogetherwithproperquaysforlandinglargerforces,andartillery,
andthatwemightbythistime,perhaps,havebeenbuildingupafrontonaline,SouthofTrondheim,betweenthesea
andtheSwedishborder,butevenifwehad,atthepresenttime,got25,000or30,000Alliedtroopsintoactiononthis
front,which,inviewoftheenemy'sairsuperiorityishighlyquestionable,suchaforcewouldnothavebeenableto
arriveintimeorbeequippedwiththenecessaryartilleryintime,ortogetanythinglikeequalairsupportintime.Ido
notbelievethatitwouldhavebeenabletowithstandtheimmenseweightoftheattackwhichwasbeingdeliveredby
theGermansfromtheirmagnificentbaseatOsloandupthetwolinesofrailwayandroadfromOslototheNorth.
TherecanbenodoubtwhateverthattheGermanbaseatOsloandtheGermancommunicationsnorthwardwere
incomparablysuperiortoanythingthatwecouldhaveobtainedatTrondheim,andatthevarioussmallancillary
landingplaceswhichweused.Itwouldhavebeenaveryunsatisfactorystruggle,atagreatdisadvantageandat
disproportionatecosttotheAllies.Therearealreadyover120,000GermantroopsoperatinginSouthandCentral
Norwayandalthoughwecouldhavethrownincontinualreinforcements,Icannotbelievethattherewastheslightest
chanceofultimatesuccess,anditwouldhavebeenastrugglebetweenanarmybasedonTrondheimandaGerman
armybasedonOslo.ThataspectofthematterhadtobeconsideredbythemilitaryexpertsastowhethertheGermans
couldreinforcemorequicklythanwecould.Therewasnomeansbywhichtheirairsuperioritycouldhavebeen
overcome.Weshouldthereforehavebeencommittedtoaforlornoperationonaneverincreasingscale.

Therefore,whateverviewwemaytakeofthechancesoftheattackonTrondheim,thedecisiontoabandonit,although
itwastakenfordifferentreasonsfromthoseIhavejustmentioned,wasnotonlyreasonableatthetime,buthas,I
believe,savedusintheupshotfromamostdisastrousentanglement.Itoftenhappensinwarthatanoperationwhichis
successfulonasmallscalebecomesviciousifitismultipliedbythree,fourorfivetimes.Wemustbecarefulnotto
exhaustourAirForce,inviewofthemuchgraverdangerswhichmightcomeuponusatanytime,andalsonotto
throwsuchastrainonourflotillasandantiaircraftcruisersasmighthamperthegeneralmobilityoftheFleet.There
areotherwatersofwhichwehavetothinkbesidestheNorwegianwaters,andIcanthinkofnothingmorelikelyto
bringnewadversariesdownuponusinotherwatersthanthespectacleofourbeingtoolargelyabsorbedunderthe
mostunfavourableconditionsinaprotractedstrugglearoundTrondheim.Ofcourse,ifSwedenhadcometotherescue
ofNorway,ifhertroopshadentered,astheycouldeasilyhavedone,andifherairbaseshadbeenatthedisposalof
theRoyalAirForce,verydifferentpositionsmighthavebeenestablished.Therehas,unhappily,neverbeenany
chanceofthat.TheSwedishGovernment,likemanyotherpeople,havebeenconfinedtoadversecriticismofHis
Majesty'sGovernment.
WearenowfightinghardforNorthernNorway,andinparticularforNarvik,andIwillnotattempttopredicthowthe
strugglewillgo,norwillIgiveanyinformationaboutitatall.Iwillcontentmyselfwithsayingthattheconditionsin
thatareaaremuchmoreequalsofarasabilitytoreinforceitisconcernedmuchmoreequalandmuchmore
favourablethanthosewhichwouldhavedevelopedinCentralNorway.
Mr.AlexanderMayIaskthisspecificquestion?CouldtheFirstLordtelluswhetherwearenowinpossessionofthe
aerodromeatNarvik?
Mr.ChurchillIsupposetheenemyknowwhetherweare.Thereisnoharminsayingthatweare.Ihavegoneinsome
detailintothismatter,andImustsaythatIthinkitisaninjurytoourwarmakingcapacitythatweshouldbeforcedto
doso.WedonotenjoythegreatadvantageoflearningfromthelipsoftheGermanwarleaderstruthfulaccountsofall
themotiveswhichatdifferenttimeshaveactuatedthemintheirdecisions,andIhopethatthiswillbethelasttime.If
wehavedecidedtospeakinthisplainmanner,itisbecauseofthecataractofunworthysuggestionsandofactual
falsehoodswhichhavebeenpouredouttothepublicduringthelastfewdays.Apicturehasbeendrawnofcraven
politicianshamperingtheiradmiralsandgeneralsintheirbolddesigns.OthershavesuggestedthatIhavepersonally
overruledthem,orthattheythemselvesareineptandcowardly.Othersagainhavesuggestedforiftruthismany
sided,mendacityismanytonguedthatI,personally,proposedtothePrimeMinisterandtheWarCabinetmore
violentactionandthattheyshrankfromitandrestrainedit.Thereisnotawordoftruthinallthat.[AnHon.Member:
"Whosaidit?"]Afterall,yousaidyouwantedthetruth.IamsurprisedthattherearesomeMembersofParliament
wholetthemselvesdoit,butIsawitstatedyesterdayinthe"NewsChronicle"thatitwasthepoliticiansandnotthe
navalofficerswhocountermandedatthelastmomenttheorderstoattackTrondheim.AllIcansayisthatIthinka
properwithdrawalshouldbemade.
Mr.VernonBartlett(Bridgwater)Iamsorrytointerrupt,butIamaMemberofParliament,andIalsowriteforthe
"NewsChronicle."IdonotthinkthatIwroteanythingbearingthatsense.
Mr.ChurchillIfullyacceptanythingwhichthehon.Gentlemansaysingoodfaith,butIthinkheshouldlookatwhat
hewrote,andaswesayforgreateraccuracy,Iwillsendhimacopy.
Imustsayawordaboutmyhon.andgallantFriendtheAdmiral,towhomwelistenedwithsomuchpleasure
yesterday,whenhemadethebestspeechIhaveheardhimmake.Isympathiseintenselywithhisdesiretoleada
valiantattackandtorepeatinScandinavianwaterstheimmortalgloriesoftheZeebruggeMole,butIamsorrythat
thisnaturalimpulseshouldhaveledhimtocastaspersionsuponhisoldshipmatesandhisoldstaffofficers,Sir
DudleyPoundandViceAdmiralPhillips,andtospeakindisparagingtermsofthem.IdidnotknowthembeforeI
wenttotheAdmiralty.Iwentthere,astheHouseknows,onthedaythatwarbrokeout.Eightmonthsofwarhasled
metofeelaverystrongandsolidconfidenceinthemandalsointheCommanderinChiefoftheHomeFleet,Sir
CharlesForbesconfidenceintheircapacityandmassivegoodsenseandintheirknowledge,whichiskept
constantlyuptodatebycontactswithmodernconditionsandIbelievetheFleetitselfhasconfidenceinthem.

Therefore,whenmyhon.andgallantFriendcametomewithhisplanforforcinganentranceintoTrondheim,Icould
onlytellhimthattherewasalreadyaplanverysimilartohis,thoughIthoughthiswastosomeextenttobepreferred
butthatwehadabandonedtheplan.[AnHon.Member:"Becauseitwastoolate."]Weabandonedtheplanforthe
reasonsIhavegiven.
Mr.ArthurGreenwood(Wakefield)Therighthon.GentlemanhasbeenblamingtheChiefsofStaffortakingthe
responsibilityonbehalfoftheChiefsofStaff.IsitafactthattheWarCabinetdelayedtakingadecisionabout
attackingTrondheim?
Mr.ChurchillNotforamoment.Dodismissthesedelusions.Whenmyhon.andgallantFriendtellsus,ashedid,that
hehimselfvolunteeredtoleadthisattack,Icanonlysaythat,hadtheattackbeendelivered,thatprivilegehadbeen
reservedtohimselfbytheCommanderinChief,SirCharlesForbes.
Ihavedealt,asfarasIcaninthetimeopentome,withthedetailsofthisTrondheimstory,butImustsaythatI
cannotrecedeatallfromthestatementImade,whichhasbeenmuchcriticised,thatthisinvasionofNorwaybyHitler
hasbeenacardinalpoliticalandstrategicerror.Inthebrownhours,whenbafflingnewscomes,anddisappointing
news,IalwaysturnforrefreshmenttothereportsoftheGermanwireless.Ilovetoreadtheliestheytellofallthe
Britishshipstheyhavesunksomanytimesover,andtosurveythefools'paradiseinwhichtheyfinditnecessaryto
keeptheirdeludedserfsandrobots.TheGermanshaveclaimedtohavesunkordamaged11battleshipsactually,two
havebeenslightlydamagedneitherofthemwithdrawnforadayfromtheservice.Theyhaveclaimedthreeaircraft
carriersheavilydamagedthefactsarethatonewasslightlyinjuredbyanearmiss,andthatitisstillgoingoninthe
service.Theyhavedeclaredthattheyhavesunkordamaged28cruisersactually,oneantiaircraftcruiserhas
sustaineddamage.Astodestroyers,andsoforthIcouldgoon,butIwillnot.Theonlypointonwhichtheyhavenot
exaggeratedisthesinkingoftrawlers.Wehave,unhappily,lost11trawlersintheGovernmentserviceatonetimeor
anotherandthatexplainsallthese"battleships"intheGermanaccounts.
Myrighthon.FriendIalwayscallhimthattheMemberforCarnarvon(Mr.LloydGeorge)saidwemustnot
mentioncalculationsofprofitandloss,butIdonotagree.Calculationsofprofitandlossareourlife.Wewinbythese
calculationsoftheshipswesink.Itseemstomethat,althoughHitler'ssuddenoverrunningofthevastregionsof
Norwayhashadastonishingandunwelcomeeffects,nevertheless,theadvantagesrestsubstantiallywithus.Iwillgive
someofthefactswhichareworthmentioning.Hitlerhascertainlylosttenlivesforeveryonenotthathecaresfor
that,Iagree.HehascondemnedalargepartoftheScandinavianpeninsulaandDenmarktoentertheNaziempireof
Hungryland.Hehascommittedanactofselfblockade.Weseenoreasonwhyourcontrolovercommerceoftheseas
shouldnotbecomeevenmoreeffectivenowthattheNorwegiancorridorexistsnolonger,andnowthatunhappy
Denmark,whenherreserveshavebeendevoured,willnolongerbethepurveyorofbaconandbutterandthechannel
oftradeandcommunicationswiththeouterworld.
AlthoughHitlerhastreacherouslyreceivedalargepartofNorwayitisperhapsforgottenthat,likeourownpeople,the
Norwegianslivelargelybythesea.TheFrenchandtheBritishmercantilemarinecannowrelyupontheinvaluable
supportandcooperationoftheNorwegianmerchantfleet,thefourthlargestintheworld,andontheservicesof
seamenwhoseskillanddaringarewellknown.AlsowehavetakenintoourserviceaverylargeamountofDanish
shippingwhichwillbeofthegreatestassistance.ThesearenotablefactswhenwerememberthattheBritishand
Frenchlossesthroughenemyactionsincethewararebarely800,000tons,andthecapturesandthebuildinghave
alreadymadegoodthreequartersofthatloss.[AnHon.Member:"Oh."]Idaresaythehon.Memberdoesnotlike
that.Heskulksinthecorner[Interruption]Whatarewequarrellingabout?[Hon.Members:"Youshould
withdrawthat."]Iwillnotwithdrawit.
Mr.Sloan(SouthAyrshire)OnapointofOrder.[Interruption.]
Mr.MacleanOnapointofOrder.Is"skulk"aParliamentaryword?Therighthon.Gentlemanusedtheword"skulk"
andIamaskingwhetheritisaParliamentarywordtousetoanotherMember?

Mr.SpeakerItdependswhetheritappliesaccuratelyornot.
Mr.MacleanFurthertothatpointofOrder[Interruption].
Mr.ChurchillFinally[Interruption]Hon.Membersdarenotlistentotheargument.
Mr.MacleanArewetounderstand,Mr.Speaker,thatawordbecomesParliamentaryifitisaccurate?
Mr.ChurchillAlldaylongwehavehadabuse,andnowhon.Membersoppositewillnotevenlisten.Theeightornine
divisionsoftroopswehadwithdrawnfromtheWesternFrontwouldbelockedupinthatcountryallthesummer,
defendingacoast800mileslongandindentedinamostextraordinarymanner.
ThefirstpartoftheDebatewasconcernedwithNorway,butabout5o'clockthisafternoonweweretoldtherewasto
beaVoteofCensuretakenintheformofavoteontheMotionfortheAdjournment.ItseemstomethattheHouse
willbeabsolutelywrongtotakesuchagravedecisioninsuchaprecipitatemanner,andaftersuchalittlenotice.The
questionofthedismissalofaGovernmenthasalwaysbeenopentotheHouseofCommons,andnoMinisterwould
condescendtoholdofficeunlesshehadthe
confidenceandsupportoftheHouse.ButiftheGovernmentaretobedismissedfromoffice,andthatistheclaim
whichhasbeenmadewithoutscruple,thenIthinkthatintimeofwaratleastthereshouldbeasolemnResolutionput
downonthePaperandfullnoticegivenoftheDebate.ExceptionhasbeentakenbecausethePrimeMinistersaidhe
appealedtohisfriends.Hethoughthehadsomefriends,andIhopehehassomefriends.Hecertainlyhadagood
manywhenthingsweregoingwell.IthinkitwouldbemostungenerousandunworthyoftheBritishcharacter,and
theConservativeparty,toturninamomentofdifficultywithoutalltheprocessesofgraveDebatewhichshouldbe
taken.
LetmesaythatIamnotadvocatingcontroversy.Wehavestooditforthelasttwodays,andifIhavebrokenout,it
isnotbecauseImeantoseekaquarrelwithhon.Gentlemen.Onthecontrary,Isay,letprewarfeudsdielet
personalquarrelsbeforgotten,andletuskeepourhatredsforthecommonenemy.Letpartyinterestbeignored,let
allourenergiesbeharnessed,letthewholeabilityandforcesofthenationbehurledintothestruggle,andletallthe
stronghorsesbepullingonthecollar.Atnotimeinthelastwarwereweingreaterperilthanwearenow,andIurge
theHousestronglytodealwiththesemattersnotinaprecipitatevote,illdebatedandonawidelydiscursivefield,but
ingravetimeandduetimeinaccordancewiththedignityofParliament.
Questionput,"ThatthisHousedonowadjourn."
TheHousedivided:Ayes,281Noes,200.
AdjournedaccordinglyatThirteenMinutesafterEleveno'Clock.