FULLWIITS.Vol.3/No.

I
 icking up where the Skatalites' Lloyd down into the cool, sparse, and intimate Rock
Brevette left offin 1966, Jackie came u . Where Ska had been at once a serious
with line after li pection and fun sounds for
Rocksteady and ywas also capable of
virtually all of the for both tender,
lines, and a us Rude Boy
not Marley
AI hits of
ing lers

1n

hen he in- Clinton Ru

jected a rapid series of eighth fiotes into --- good
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&ore quin$tr Sfi Sianist Gladstone
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ffia aru*rn$rgtjyp.*,Fr"'r'ated by \n
#i:4ll*ry,hTJ^i_./- ',"pp"dontheggk$p1futtro,S
ffiSssuclitlgSigli,lrii-ewis'TakeltEasy,
\i.'*.,*n*d theWIRLstudiowalii^/ftfifftwsoffi
tQTechniq,r"r' Quu, n Majesty and Roy called the Reggae. #
Shfuy's Hold Them and Be Good. Gladdy has Acore rn-€mber of the Dynamites from$68-
stat$gthat in his opini on Thke It Easywls re***{SBS, Ju.Hi" played on virtually att of
$ts A
aly thfueeinning of the Rocksteady era, as it the Maytals' albums and thousand, o;$li. t.r"
was recofidgd while still in the Ska period. Such shows. His giant church grooves arLffit, simple,
was the irnlffict of this r"'ru|&td;ffi"&'ffS $'dS*#.tfu6BRislrrt"r, Amqffin in flavor,
r r ,, #* ,$.ar$,,Si,r'l'.,*r \{'.".i".'1
.''nar)& W
board at- radioWtion RJR lit up like{dGhfffffll}'rHh\B'ddi{iti€hted
fJt'-'I oer,iilealea some of ressee"s warmest and
.R Fc L*&,&fuhh';
mas tree when TalrbW*tE&f"$/bdddftdqfth ttfu tAost itr$Fifud rrfortiBlttffitl can
still be heard
**sW
first time. *- in today's dal&e$SffiTutor and influence to
The more strict and rtudffdM, #W'yg**
dFSt& W$ffi."tt and Robbie Shakespeare,
NewOrleansR&BoutingsoftheSkatalites,and Jackie is another one of the unsung heroes of
Byron Lee's version for tourists, had slowed Jamaican music.

FULLWEfTg.\/ol.3/No. I
Mark Gorney Can you add some more detail to
what you've told me about your upbringing?

Jackie Jackson On my father's side of the family,

I think there's nine of us. I only know one of the
brothers, his name is Lloyd, in Kingston, and on my mother's side I'm an only child. My mother's side was
the musical side of the family. My mother plays piano. As a matter of fact, everybody on my mother's side of
the family is a piano player. So I suppose I was next in line to be a piano player. Hence, I went to music
school, Corbett's School of Music in Kingston. Right at West Street and Charles Street, right betrind Kingston
Public Hospital. That's old, old, olden days. We're talking about 30 years ago, )runno. As a matter of faci,
more than that. I was about fourteen. I went to
school there, started out playing the piano. I went to
piano lessons. lly tathr
MG Did your mother have a piano in her house?

lJ No, we couldn't afford one.

MG Your family was poor?

JJ Of course. Measly poor. Very. At one time, I used

to go to school barefoot, Yeah, that's how badly off
we were. And I was happy I was going to school. I
went to school barefooted fe a lickle while, but what
the hell. I was going to school.

MG \{here did you live in Kingston?

JJ We lived in so many places. Central Kingston. At one time we lived at Orange Street and Charles Street,
that btg hell of a house there. It wasn't a house, it was a yard, with different apartments. Different rooms. \\b
Lived there awhile, then we live at Luke Lane, we live at Love Lane, we lived at Church Street, Central
Kingston. The heart of Kingston. It's a big tenement yard, yunno? I told my wife that one of these days I'm
going to take her to see where I grew up. I didn't live with my father. I lived with my mother all my life. I'rn
an only child for her. My father was a piece of shit. The biggest piece of shit that has ever lived. The most
money I've ever gotten from my father, the most I can remember at any dme, is fift5r cents. In those days ir
was pounds, so it was five shillings. In today's monetary world, it meant flfty cents. I got flfty cents from rnr
father once. Fifty cents. That's how much of a piece of shrit he was. My mother was a hhrdreiser. She sent niE
to music school, and started me out on the piano. There's ttris [tuiuon] book called Smallwoods Tutor. A big.
thick, hell of a book. Well if you can go through that book, then you'll become the greatest piano player in cl-,:
world. There's a passage in the middle of that book, a lesson, a song called Sl'lver Threads Amongsl Urc Cola. f
you can pass that passage, Mark, then you'll be able to flnish the book. And NOBODY could pass that
Passage. I tore up three Smallwoods. Three or four of them. Tear them up. Going to music school, Monday -.r

FALL UEjT8. Vol. 3,rNo. 1

FULLII/ATIE'Vol.3/No. 1
 Friday, being at that passage, playin', playin', and
can not tum over the page. I'm stuck on that one
page for weeks, and IJust tore it up. I just tore up
the God damned book. My mother bought me
another one, I couldn't get through the part, I tear
it up. After the fourth book, hke a coincidence, by
this time now, Skatalites came into being and they
were playin'. A lickle child of twelve,
thlrteen.. . an5rwhere Skatalites was playin', I was
always there. And the sound systems...Duke
Reid, Coxsone, King Edward the Giant, V-Rocket,
Tom the Great Sebastian, Billy's Hometown Hi-Fi,
Lloyd the Matador, al o'dem. An5rwhere they
were playin' I was always there. Every Friday night and Saturday Night and Sunday night and sometime
Wednesday night I was right at the dance hall. Forrester's Hall, Jubilee, all o'dem. Just standin' there and
listenin'. One night in pardcular now Skatalites was playin' at one o'these dances. And I went there and I sto'oc
up and I listened. I was right under [Lloyd] Brevette. I was standing right under his nose. And right there anc
then, I said to myself, this is what I want to play. I went to music school the next day, I went and I said, "Mr.
Corbett, I want to play the bass. I want to play the upright." And him say "Why? You was doin' so well!" aaC .
say "No, I was not doin'well. The piano is difficult." And then, I don't know if everyone took it as a joke, bul I
was serious. I said "The piano has 88 keys and I only have ten flngers." And the whole class thought it was
funny and everybody was rollin' on the ground laughing. And that was the
end of the piano for me. And I took up the bass, and Jesus, it was love at fi:s':
sight. At that time, I didn't start doin' a lotta sessions, just here and there. I
decided I wanted to have my own instrument, so I went down to Music \{a:r
Music Mart was down at the bottom of Orange Street, this music store. I u rr
to Mr. Hosang, and I said "Mr. Hosang, I'd like to purchase this bass." It rc-ei
I think, ten pounds. He said to me, "Well, it's ten pounds, but you look like i
decent chap, so if you can make a deposit or have somebody stand the
securit5r for you I'11 gladly give you terms of credit." I went up to Gibbo iJoe
Gibbsl. I did Gibbo's first session, the flrst session Gibbo ever did, with Ro1
Shirley. Hold Them. That first set o'tunes. . .I went up to Gibbo and I told tt-r.
and Gibbo seh "Yeah, man. I will stand security fI yuh." We went down to
Music Mart, I gave Mr. Hosang three pounds, and he said I can pay him r*:,
shillings a month. And Gibbo stood securit5t, collect mi bass. Jesus, that v:s
the proudest moment of my life, Mark. Fender lazz.Brand new. In a case.
Jesusl Ecstasy. I paid offfor that shit in three months. The payment woulc
have stretched out like about a year, year and a half. I paid it off in three
months, because ofthe sessions, yunno?

MG How did Gibbs flnd you to do the session?

lJ In dem days it was one set of guys doing session. It was me, Gladdy,
Winston Wright, and you had a choice of drummers. It was either Hugh
Malcolm or Winston Grennan in those early days. Drumbago was on his'"t'a-,
out. Gibbo came to Kingston to do a session. 'Im didn't know nobody. He
drove down to West Indies studio, came inside, saw us playin' and he went up to Gladdy, and said, "my nam,e
Gibbo, I'm from...the counffy [Montego Bay] and I have some songs I want to do." He had Gladdy make ai-l --:re
arrangements and then Gladdy came and said "Gentleman, this is Joe Gtbbs, 'im want to do a session tomon:',*n
at ten," and that was it. We didn't know Roy Shirley. We didn't know who the strit him was. Him was just

eD F.l-...wtr',r,-Vor. 3/No. 1
 another guy. Because before that he was nobody. Roy Shirley came, we did three
songs, or four. Hold Them, Be Good.. .four songs. And the four of them was anttrem.

MG Tlris was the same dme [966] as Take It Easy [Hopeton Lewis]?

JJ Yeah. That was the song that bridged the gap between Ska coming down, beca'
Thke It Easy Is a cross between the two a dem.

MG What was your very first recording session?

JJMy ftrst recording was GAI I've Cot a Date [Alton Ellisl. That song was a nationa]
anthem in Jamaica. That was the flrst time I was recording for Duke also. The flrst
session at Duke.

MG How did you come to do the session?

JJ Tommy McCook was Duke's best friend. And Tommy was the musical director for Treasure Isle. Skatalites
record a lot of songs for Duke, and Lloyd Spence was the bass player at that time. That time I wasn't recording
yet. And then Lloyd Spence left and went to
America. Before that I was a member of Tommy's
band. Even when I was a member of the band. ..I
wasn't doin' any recording at that time. 'Cause I was lfi tin
new I was 19 years of age, Mark, and then now. ..not
that dem didn't think that I could do the recording,
but Lloyd Spence was an experienced bass player.
He was the bass player of the moment. He played
for everybody. And then when he left and went
away there was a void, a hell of a void there, and
then one day I would imagine that Duke and
Tommy discuss it and say "bwai, we haffl flnd
somebody to play bass to do these sessions," and I
would imagine that Tommy seh "well, my bass
player is not too bad, mek wi try 'im." One Saturday
night when we flnish playin' Club Havana and
Tommy McCook seh to me, "There's gonna be a
recordin' session at Treasure Isle studio tomorrow
momin' at 12, if you think you can be there," and I
say "Of course, " and I went, and my first song was Girl I've Got a Date. That song was a fuckin' national anthem.
It was an anthem. The biggest Alton Ellis hit ever. History was created right there, mon. From there on I was at
Tieasure Isle for millions of years.

MG What was Duke like?

JJ You see, you can't please everybody, Mark. Some people like you, some won't like you. First, I never have no
problem whatsoever with Mr. Reid. I found him a decent guy, yunno what I mean? But then again, I was no
arflst. I didn't go there and sing. ..I've never heard, believe me I've never heard anyone sayrng "Bwai, Mr. Reid
rob me or the Duke rob me or him owe me. I've never heard that. I found him to be a decent, caring person,
1runno what I mean? I've known trim to do things for people above and beyond the call of duty, so I found him
to be alright.

FULLWfrlTg.Wol.3/No. 1
MG You were speaking of [Motown bassist]
James Jameson.

JJ Yeah man. James Jameson was my guy. I knew

every,.,when I say every I mean literally speak-
ing, every Motown song bass line. I used to just
go into a record store and buy a Motown album, I
don't care who the hell is singing. Supremes,
Stevie Wonder, who. Four Tops. Put them on the
turntable, tum off the bass, and play alongside
with the song. I knew every one of those bass
lines. NOTE for note, and that is what I think
helped me along musically.

MG How did you make the transition to Jamaican music?

JJ You mean, how did I come up with the lines?

MGYeah.

JJ A number of ttrings. Well usually, it's a song itself that trigger off the line in your
head, yunno. Beca' what I used to do, most of the time. ..I'm a rhythmic bass playe:
I'm not a melodic bass player. You have some bass player, the song will require 'turi
tum, tum' - that's all that is required of the song. And instead, they'll be playing 'nr::
de dum dum de dum de dum de tum dum dum' I'm not like that. I'm rhythmic. If n:
song requires (taps foot on ground in even tempo) you're not getting more than tha:
from me. What I used to also do, I used to like to take a part of the melody or a piece
of the song and either make a line or make it into an introduction. Hux [Brown] anc
miself, we used to.. .Hux was a lead guitarist. Hux and myself used to work closeli
together where lines are concemed, and we hear a song, llke Girl I've Got a Dateho.a
that line came about. What I'm doin' in Girl I've Got a Date if yuh listen to the Line
closely I am playing a piece of the melody. Hux and miself, we'll be in the studio. a:i':
somebody'll come and sing a song. And I will hear the line immediately. I wouldn :
even try to tell you how the line come about. But the song...in them days Rockstea:-.
to me was the greatest era in Jamaican music, yunno. It can never be replaced. The
artists were writing songs. And when you go furto the studio and a
guy come and sing a song, right away the line Just come to you from out of nowhere.
The inspiration is right there, pow. You hear the first line, itjust come to you.
Oa Hux willJust come up with a line and start to play and I just trip in on top
of it, or I'll add something to it, or I say "No, if you play that part, give me a "jf
break and play ttris other part" and that's how the lines them come about.

MG Did you know Hux and Winston before?

33.Fff* $. r.{ a+,!r
Kcn- l!.. ?]:ru
JJ I used to hear of Hux, and he also heard of me because Hux was a
studio musician for Coxsone. I've never ever played for Coxsone yunno.
But I've been into the studio and done recording [Dennis Walks' oft-
versioned hit smash The Drifterl. So all of these hits that come on the street aYr . AulAtA
,. xol.r E
;
for Coxsone I know of them, I've heard of Hux Brown. And the hits them 'O^
-Qr* lGinr sccd
"".'fi;'$;;;;i; .,+V
from Duke, Hux know of them, he didn't know who the bass player was, we "a;'lhlesr*r g,"ot"
,sui

FULLWEITS.wol.3/No. 1
have never ever met. After awhile Hux left Coxsone and he went andJoined Vikings band. He was a member of
Mighty Mkings. By that time, Tommy McCook band had formed. So we got to know each other as band
members. And when he left Coxsone he started to freelance in the studios, so by him freelancin' automatically
we met in the studios.

MG Was Lloyd Brevette's playing an influence on you?

lJ Of course, most definitely. When I took up the upright, this was even
before I started listenin' to Motown. I was listenin' to Motown but I wasn't
doin' anything. I was just listenin' as a bass player. Everywhere Skatalites
went, I was right there. I was right under Brevette nose. I used to say to
misell "Bwai, I woulda like to be in a band like this." When Skatalites broke
up and Tommy McCook went one way and Roland went the other way,
Tommy McCook came right to my gate and says he's forming a band.
Supersonics. If I'd like to be the bass player. Oh Jesus, Mark. Can you imagine
that? (laughs)What??

MG I can imagine! Am I correct in understanding that Lee Perry used to run

Gibbs'sessions?

JJ Um.. .yeah. That was after that first session. After that flrst session then Scratch was his. ..I wouldn't even say
musical director but his. ..

MG Righthand?

JJ His rtght hand.

MG What was he like to work with?

JJ Smatch? Lovely, man. I mean, all good and well everybody is talking about producers, but you see guys like
Niney, Scratch Lee Perry, Bunny Lee, dem guys are the real, live and living color when you're talking about
producers. They are not musicians, they can't play instruments, but what they feel is unbelievable, yunno.
Bunny Lee is responsible, they don't know this, for that flying cymbal in some of those songs in the early days.
We were doing a session, I can't remember who the hell it was, and him wanted Grennan to play...'im seh
(kisses teeth) "Bwal, Grennan, mi nuh like how yuh cymbal sound, man. You cyaan mek it go so." 'Im couldn't
express what him wanted, 1runno. And 'im seh, "mek the cymbal fly yunno, man.."
None a wi could understand what the hell him was talkin' about. How the hell
you gwine mek make a cymbal fly? And him started to go like this (makes
flapping motion with his arms). And then just by accident Grennan seh "Like
so?" and hlm seh "YEAAAHHH! Yes mon! See it deh?" And right there and
then, that era, them calllt flying cymbal, that's what them used to call it. Flyers.
That's where that started from.

MG Santa Davis claims it comes from the drummer from MFSB.

lJ No sah. Grennan did that before that, man. No mon. In dem time there
was no MFSB. What I'm talking about is before that.

MG How much were you paid for a session?

FaLLll//ITT$.Vol.3/No- 1
 JJ Oh God in dem days...first of all in the olden
days it was pounds. I came on the scene when it iiiii" 11,i;;.,.ir,..,:l.::::::,:,=
'n
.,

was 10 shillings a song. And then it went up to a

pound, then went to 30 shillings, then went to Il nfr
I t\ ,:::::::::::::::
:: ;:
two pounds. And then two pound ten, and by the
time we got to three pounds a side it went over to Jackie Jackson
dollars.

MG Did you feel that was significant compensa-

tion for your work?

JJ In dem days, yes. In dem days, ofcourse. Dem

days a car was...my first car I paid $1400 for it. So
I mean, ten strillings was like, a dollar in dem days. And in dem days when you doing session, you do like,
fifteen songs tn a day. No, not in a day. I leave my house at 9:00 in the morning and I don't come back until
about 3:00 the next morning. And between that period is like six, seven different session of six, eight, nine and
ten songs each. Mm-hmm.

MG What was the flrst time you went abroad?

JJ The ftrst time I really went away was with Tommy McCook. Supersonics. Went to Canada for two weeks.

MG When they filmed you in The Harder They Come, what was that like?

JJIt was great. Everybody seh woa! We're in a movie. Great, wonderful. We were paid some silly-ass footsh
money and we thought it was a ton load of money. And apart from that you're in a movie - big deal. And
looking back on it now...

MG How did the Toots thing come together?

JJ We guys, all of us, we used to do all of the recordings for everybody. Tip Top, Duke, everybody. And we a-ii:
did Toots' recording. At that time he was with Beverley's Records. That's where most of the recording for l"J:::
was done. And then Island became interested and we were doing all of lu
recording and he used to go on tour with Byron Lee. But Byron Lee was
nothing special. Then once he went with Inner Circle for a likkle tour, anc
when the movie came out now with Pressurc Drop, some interest started rl
generate around the world. Chris Blackwell, businessman as usual, what:,; :
thinking of is marketing right away. He approach us, he call a meetin', arr-
say he want to see all of us guys. So we say, "what the hell is this." And u--"
seh "alright, you guys have been recording for Toots for years. You recotc '
of his songs, there's an interest, I think there's going to be...he and Bob is
going to break, reggae-wise. Would you guys like to be the Maytals?" ,{.:rr,, :
say, "alright, tell us what you have to offer us" and we said, "alright, u'e - g*.
back to you." Me, Hux, Ansel Collins, Dougie [Bryan], everybody said. :'-qa."
mek wi...we don't have nothin' to lose, mek we go, yeah. So we said, 'OF-
we're ready." And we went on the flrst tour, and it was six weeks, and lk:
was from then.

Toots Hibbert MG When Grennan leftJamaica and Sly is supposed to have taken his :-a=
you phoned Grennan and said "Sly can't handle it?"

{D Fullw,,rr,-vol. 3/No. 1
 JJNo, Grennan is.. . I read that in a magazine. I've never,
ever played on a session with Sly Dunbar. Never ever.
Grennan is hallucinating. We were always changing
drummers. There was a million and one drummers. When
Grennan left, there was a drummer from the Army, we
called him Ducky, I can't remember why they call him
Ducky. By that time Hugh Malcolm was out of it, and then
Paul Douglas came along. There was Tin Legs, there was a
drummer named Fergie, he was before even Paul Dou-
glas. Fergie was Lynn Tait's drummer.

MG And Joe Isaacs?

JJ Oh God, yeah, a very excellent Rocksteady drummer in the olden days.

MG What was the vibe like at WIRL as opposed to say, Federal?

JJ The great thing about us guys Jrunno, Mark, is that no studio determine what we are going to do or how it's
going to sound or.. .beca' if you make that happen to you, and you become fond of West Indies, when you go
into Federal you can't produce shit. So the studio didn't have one God damned thing to do with any of us. It
was so amazlng, where we were concerned and producers were concerned because we didn't fancy any
producer over the other one, yunno. Our greatest concern was to please everybody. And we will do a session for
Duke, and hits will roll out of that studio, and Miss P will call us, for a session, a lickle pensively, because she
might think, "Rahtid, them guys goin'to be loyal to Duke" and when we do a session fe her POW! Hits again.
And Beverley's will call us fe a session. Hits again. And then tJre individual people, one Gibbo, and then the
lickle one guy, the individual...every now and again some lickle guy just come and beg us a one song. We do it,
POW hit. There was this engineer at Dynamic, West Indies, name was Anderson...L;mford Anderson [Andy
Cupp]. He beg us to do a song one night, Pop a Tbp. We have never been paid for that song (laughs). We're just
there, and we just seh 'alright we do it fi yuh' and a lotta that went on,
yunno. Yeah man. One time Gladdy did a song, him and Stranger Cole
(sings,fusf Lilre a River). That's Gladdy's song. Him and Stranger Cole. We
never got paid for that. We just kept playing I'rits for everybody.

MG Paul Douglas says that onPop ATopyou guys wereJust fooling around,
some of you even switching instruments, and then all of a sudden there was
this improved thing happening and Andy Capp just said "Yesl " and started
rolling tape.

JJ I can't exactly recall what happened there.

MG Tell me something of [Hugh] Malcolm.

JJ In the olden days, Malcolm was great. When I say great drummer, yunno.
Great. Malcolm had one of the best right hand and right foot next to Lloyd
Knibbs. In some o'dem recordings, where Malcolm drop his bass drum,
unbelievable. Any other drummer do that, they would soak the session, or
soak the song, but,5runno? Malcolm was a great drummer. His ability to
play that instrument was unbelievable.

Ftl,t.;r',ntr8.vol. 3/No-' QD
MG His girlfriend had an expensive lifestyle?

He had this girl, Mark I can't remember her

JJ Yes.
name, but she was part of his downfall beca' she -\id,!iML
always wanted this and wanted that and, 5runno?
Likejust playing the role ofbeing rich and cffibn
famous. She was part of his downfall (Iaughs).

MG Can you tell me something about Sir JJ 0J

Johnson)?

JJ He was another nice, decent guy, country...very

countrifled, yunno?All 'im used to do, he had this
disturbin' laugh - you could see a mile and hear him laughing. That was his trademark. He was always
laughing. He always laugh at the simplest and the most foolish things. He has never given anybody no prob-
lem.

MG He was from the country?

I don't remember where, but he's from the country. Him talk like
JJ Yeah, a
countryman, him look like a countryman. He owned a lot ofJukeboxes.

MG And Family Man?

lJ Family Man...well, I wouldn't come out and say I taught Family Man. I
think Family Man get most of his teaclring. . .what I can say I did for Famitl-
Man. ..I used to be in the studio a lot, and I didn't know lrim at that dme, bu:
Family Man used to come down to Dynamics, at that time it wasn't even
Dynamics, it was West Indies Records. And Family Man would walk into rl-re
studio. He knew the guitarist, Ronnie Bop. And at that time he wasn't ever:
playin', Mark. And we would record a song, and he would be there standin
up and lookln,' and when we finish recording the song and we go in the
engineer room to listen to it. When we were flnished listenin' to it, we r,l'ere
coming back i::r the studio and hear the bass playing the same line I was
playing in the song so I say "Shit, who dat inside deh?" And then we got t;
know each other, im seh im name Family Man, everybody call him Family
Man, and im seh 'im want to play bass beca'him love it. 'Im like bass, ani -:r
want to play bass. And then him kept comin' to the studio every day witil
Ronnie Bop and eve4rtime I record a song, and I put down the bass, 'im would come and pick it up and plal
back the same line, and ask mi things like what note or if im play it wrong I say "no, your finger at the lnrol;
place," that kinda ting. 'Im didn't even own a a bass at that time. So I would show him, and it went on andi rr:
like that for quite a whlle. Weeks. Months. And I seh to him "Well, bwai, yuh like it?" and im seh "Yes, mor:" '
And mi seh "Well, if yuh like it and if yuh want to do itJust because you see somebody else doin' it nuh go,r:rn
work. You have to really love it." And 'im seh "Yes, mon, mi love it to death, mon. Mi want to play the bass
guitar. And mi seh "Well, all you have to do is get a bass andJust keep at it and keep pracdcing and any llit.lir*
pointer I can givri you, cool." And he used to come down to the studio every day. Any studio that I wenr h'e.ntm
there. And he would come, and every time I play a thing, 'im would tek up the bass and I sensed that there -m
talent there 'beca if you play something and somebody come and play the same thing after, then there is
something there.

FIJLL WE]'JS. vol- 3/No. 1

MG He had an ear.

JJ Yeah. He had a good ear. And it went on like that. He and Robbie Shakespeare became friends. At that time
Robbie Shakepeare was playing in a band on Red Hills Road. There only used to be two clubs on that road [Tit
For Tat and Evil Peoplel. Sly was playing in one and Robbie in the other. And Family Man started hanging out
with Robbie, and that's where he got his break. I just gave A start. The rest is history.

MG And Boris Gardiner?

....di{$q"

JJBoris is a Y#q{N' G y. He's player but to me his voice ls

greater tI love him as a singer. Great
voice. Nfie played that nobody don't know.
When I le tHn't be bo Boris went. Also at one point
at Tl and miself we We had an argument. Well as a
matter of to do was exclusively for Theasure Isle. But
I couldn't antf-tloalSpgcord fi anybody else. I
couldn't t three or monthsJ That was
when [person] that
would wouldn't
play that have to
stay in the back (hums You
Don't Carebass line) is in dem days
nobody didn't like that. And it
was hell for me was the first
person to doub Reid, I was
trying to play MaJestyby the
same T and the Tech-
niques said " sound system, he
was there, anmhdm it cyaan play so." And I say
"No, man. Mfuplay pffieady was bom, Jrunno. Because I
say to the the ast. Slow it dung." And all of the
me, H m section always
have a horn section, my andJohnny Moore
and I mpson, all o'dem used to put of a fight and they tldnk the
line couldn't flt and the reason why it couldn't flt beca' the song was too God damned
fast. So all the riddim guys seh "No, man. Slow it downl!" And [engineer] Byron Smith,
him was another ass, him also think the bass. ..him come from out o'de old. . .the hills,
yunno. Old. Old fashioned. Old and tired. And im seh "No, bass cyaan play so." And
Duke come upstairs and say: "What is the problem?" And dem seh "Bwai, bass hold up
de session." So mi seh, "Mr. Reid, I have a line I want to play." And im seh: "Mek mi
hear it." So mi tum to Gladdy and seh: "Gladdy, play de riddim and Techniques, oonu
sing." And the flrst note mi play outta dat line fi Duke, Duke seh "Yes, mon! Record
right now" and the rest is fuckin' history. The song was an anthem. And from there on,
every song that came out after that, that's when the bass start double up. All around.
Coxsone, eve4rwhere, yunno? That line changed how the bass used to be played in
Rocksteady. There's no more (hums Dufte of Earl agun). Everything went (hums You
Have Caught Me [Melodiansl.

MG Eighth notes?

FaLLWFtTt.wol- 3/No. 1
JJ Eighth notes.

MG You told me that Kong and Pottinger were

your favorite producers.

lJ They were my favorite for different reasons.

Duke for the reason that IJust loved being at
Treasure Isle. That was home. That was special,
5runno? That was special. If like, today, I don't
have anything to do, and somebody call and seh
Jackson, I want you to come and do a session
todeh, and Duke call after that person and seh "I
want a session" I'm going to leave that person's
studio and gwaan a Duke's session, yunno? So that is special, yunno? That is past beir:rg favoriflsm or my
favorite produceq that's special. And den now favorite producer is like, Miss P [Sonia Pottinger], beca' Miss
P...I don't think it had anything to do with that being she was a lady. Is jus that Miss P in dem days, well, 99
and 9/9 o'dem sessions and dem songs and dem hlts, is the musicians mek dem hits deh yunno, Mark. Plen:-
tlmes the singers come inna the studio and dem sing and the words don't fit. And we used to seh to dem
sometime "No, you cyaan sing dat. What kinda bad English dat. No, take out that and put it somewhere eise "
or "No, sing that verse and then mek wi play something and come back and pick another verse." In dem days
we don't know nothing 'bout...in dem days if you write that song and I put in all dem tings deh the song
become me and yours, 5runno? But in dem days we was just trying to help. And Miss P wouldJust come ar.lc slrr
sit there in the mixing room and she would just sit there and she wouldJust leave us alone. She don't have
anything to say, yes or no. We go in there, we do the song, we say to Miss P "How it sound?" and she wou-li mr
"How it sound? You tell me how it sound." And if we seh it sound good she seh "Alright, cool. Next tune. "
Mark, one thing with us, we were a fierce set o'guys, yunno. We never believe in rushing or chopping up ffr:u
songs to go and do another session. Ifit sound good, it sound good. Ifit don't sound good itjust don't sounc
good. . .some other set o'people they just seh "No, man, a dat fine " and dem know it don't fine, 1runno? Sc !*if'rs
P would just sit dere easy, easy, and if we sald "Bwat, we need fi do a next one," sometime she haffi seh '\;.
man. don't do no more man, mi like this one. Mi don't want no more," yunno? And Leslie Kong was the sarie.
Leslie Kong was easy. Him nuh give no trouble.

MG Him nuh talk.

JJ No, we never know seh him coulda talk. One day we see him, I don't know what
the hell lt was that him laugh and we nearly drop down, yunno? I think we were
doing Desmond Dekker, either Israelifes or one o'dem Festival songs, and
sometldng him laugh, and we were terrifled. It was also for monetary reason.
When I say monetary in the sense that you didn't have no fear of not being
paid. Beca'there are other producers who, you do ten songs for dem and when
you go through your money, the next day dem tell you seh only six good. And
when you go to England or some place you hear the God damned song a play,
know what I mean?

JJ How about Rupie Edwards?

MG Oh, gosh. Rupert Edwards. Rupie! Well, Rupie wasn't a hard-core, hard
and fast record producer. I ttrink he was working for somebody and then went off on his own, I'm nor sre. m@
he used to have a shop on Orange Street, across from where JJ used to have his shop, and he used to ket5
session with us and he had a hit flrie Feelings].

FULL WfilTA. Vol. 3,/No. 1

MG That's you and Santa Davis on drums?

JJ Santa played drums, yeah. And I think that's what propel

[Rupie] into stardom, flnancially. It was a hit. A tremendous hit
in England. And he left for England to go on tour, can you
imagine that? He went on tour, Jrunno. And that was the last I
saw of Rupie Edwards.

MG How aboutTinleg [LloydAdams]?

JJ Tinleg wasn't a great, great drummer. At the bottom of the

ladder. He was no Winston Grennan, no Paul Douglas, no Santa,
no Horsemouth, yunno what I mean? And when Tinleg get a
session it's when the other guys can't make it, yunno? But he was
a nlce guy. Quiet, yunno? He wanted to learn.

MG How about Aubrey Adams?

lJ Oh gosh. I was Aubrey Adams' bass player for about three years; he was, to me, I don't care what anybody
else want to seh, Mark. To me Aubrey Adams is the greatest piano player that has ever llved, and I would go
anyr,vhere in the world and say that. When Aubrey played, ts like his left hand and his right hand is like two
different people, yunno. That's how great he was, Jrunno Mark. When he's playing his left hand is totally
independent from his right hand. And I learned so much. Aubrey Adams used to be the resident band leader at
the Wyndham in Montego Bay. It used to be Aubrey, Emie [Ranglin] was playin' bass, as a
matter of fact ErnieJust came back from Nassau I think, or somewhere, came back to
Jamaica, and Ernie was playing bass with him, and he needed a bass player. By this time I
was at the Sheraton, they had a Wyndham but it wasn't named Wyndham yet, and I was the
bass player and the band leader in the band in Kingston at that time. AndAubrey asked
Ernie to help him out and play some bass until he can get a bass player. Emest wasn't doing
anyttring at the dme, he had just come back home, so 'im seh alright. Ernest was with him
for awhile, and then the hotel where I was in Kingston closed. It was named Hotel Kingston
at the dme and it closed. It was sold. And incidentally it was bought by Wyndham. And
when it closed, after about two weeks after it closed, Aubrey Adams called me one day on
the phone and say "Bwai, Ernie leavin.' Emie was going to do his own thing. And 'im don't
have no bass player for his club in Montego Bay. I was the bass player for Aubrey for about
three years. And bwai, believe you me, Mark, (kisses teeth) I was in college. I went back to
school. I learned so much. That man taught me so much. Unbelievably so much. I sat right
in that corner with my bass guitar for three years. Then I left and formed my own band right
there at the Wyndham. Because he had a trlo - ajazztrio, and then I left and formed the
resident band, a pop band. It was one of the best three years of my life. Musically.

MG What do you remember about Don Drummond?

Jf Nuttin'. I never knew him. I never met trim. I just heard of him, and just through the recordings and saw him
onstage when he was plaldng with Skatalites. I used to follow Skatalites eveqrwhere they go. I never did meet
him. Johnny Moore told me thlngs about ldm, Lloyd Knibbs told me ttrings about him. When Tommy McCook
started the Supersonics, and all of these guys was Skatalites. I used to ask everybody what kind of person he
was. Tommy used to tell me things, but nuttin' bad yunno. Just that he was such a great musician. And he wrote
so many songs. And nobody knew what made him went offthe deep end. Nobody knew, yunno? Nobody knew
what caused the madness. And nobody knew why he killed tris girlfriend Marguerita. And there were some

FULLWEITS.VoI.3/No. 1
great stories, yunno? I mean jokingly. Dobby
Dobson was one of *re vocalists in Skatalites fe a
likke while. And it was either Dobby or Tony
DaCosta who told me tldsJoke that one night
they were playng at Bournemouth and acciden-
tally Don Drummond stepped on his foot. Don
Drummond was just standing there, and the band
took a break, and everybody went off the
bandstand, and left Don Drummond and Tony
DaCosta or Dobby Dobson. And Dobby wanted
to move and couldn't move beca'Don
Drummond was standing on his foot. He was
afraid to tell him "You're standing on my foot." It
was a big joke, hrim standing up there, noobody not talking, nobody not saying anSrthing. And then either
]ommy or Roland [Alphonso] came up and say: "What happen?" And then the guy pointed down toward Dor
Drummond foot (laughs). Beca' Roland or Tommy could always relate to him, yunno, yeah. But everybody else
was afraid of him through the madness, strangeness, and when Dobby pointed down io 'im foqt andthey
looked down and see that Don Drummond was standin' on it. They got him to come off the guy foot, bui it r-,'-
a bigjoke. Ahell of a joke. (laughs) ._ ; '"- -

MG How about Drumbago?

lJ Drumbago. I enjoyed playin' with Drumbago. When I started pl Drumbago he was in his mid-
forties or mid-flfties I think. But I like and erxffilv like about$ The only problem Drumbago hac ,.
that he couldn't play fast, )runno. bringing in Rocksteady, yunno. The reir:*:
that we wanted to record at, he apgffinbo. Through he was so old, he was old Mark. :"*:
when I say steady, like ffiF0Y6.t j.rst goin' tick, tock. No faster, no slower. Wha:
everybody like
$,Bb"ae other drummers dem now, they roll and they make
noise and dem do totally uncalled for, but Drumbago, from you count that sc:.;
and him roll rexot getting' shit again. Everybody like trim and remem-le:
trim for his lquarrel, never talk, never do anything.

MG Do you re

lJ You see, dv what will happen, yunno. You cyaan l<now. Barbwtue, just like Liquida::r
Winston (Wright) played and nobody thought anything of it, and then HarryJ must har-e
given him $500 and it heap o'money in dem time and it was cool. And after that look what hapie:
to Liquidatot, yunno? So was there, as a matter of fact the riddim Is You Don't Care riddim, and the E_-.
came there to do some songs one day, and she was singing...the songs didn't make any sense at all. You cai :
feel it, it don't have no riddim, it nuh have no lyrics, no nuttin', and den Smithy seh. ..I don't know horl- -u.lie :,eI
that song came about. He was looking for space on a tape for a recording, to do something, and the girl hea::
the rhyhm playing, and she started making up something, and everybody say "Yeah, yeah, yeah" uid.r-u.--
body chip in and start to put words and she put words beca' if you listen io tliat song carefuily it have sh: : :r
ItJust keep saying foolishness. "Im have barbwire in tris underpants, ai ai ai ai... " When she cbuldn't finc
nothing fe say she just say "ai ai ai ai... " (laughs) and look what happen? It just tum into a rahtid hir D.rke
wasn't there when it was being done. All of that started...it was a big joke yunno. That song. It started cu: !f n
joke' It was a big friggin' joke. As a matter of fact we didn't expect that it was going to be re-leased. Anc 5:-:y,
called it tris song then. Duke feel that is his song which it really is, and is his siudio and 'im pay fe ever.-_:
!,
and it cause a little riffbetween he and Smithy. Dem work out someting, yunno? So it was cool, but ir s--:::.::
outasabigjoke,Mark.JustlikehowwedidthesongforAndyCapp,the PopaTofiItwasabigjoke.\-n:;-i: l:

FALL WrlJTS. Vol. 3/No. 1

wasnuttin,tobetakenseriously'Justfriggingaround,andseewhatbecameofit.

MG How about Rocksteady at Studio One? That was Leroy

Sibbles?

the most unassuming bass player' musician' I have

JJ Yeah,and another fellow named [Brianl Atkinson' He was is not
of the studio and you see him on the street' I mean
ever seen. Once he put down that bass u.d "o*" o,,t in the studio' if
every day you can go on the street and look at t;;;L;dt
;"d say that'i a musician' but' ' 'even
rias musician, it's strange' Is a strange combination'
lrim don't tek up the instrument, you'd never know he a
come outa it' yunno? And even Leroy' too' Leroy
play
but bwai, when him tek up that bass some wicked lines
some nice lines, yunno. Some wonderful line' man'

MG How about djs, like Comic and Matchoukie?

I knew of Matchoulriie but I never met him. I've seen him, but comic I knew' I think he died' I knew comic
JJ
very well. Nice guy. Ni.e. wt at we call in Jamai".
pi"tq' B.y nlov$, Jou know that movie, with the gangster in
g";.th"i." loi' Woy' Sometime too much' But I suppose if
it by the name of Pretty Boy Floyd. Just nice,.lovial
system guy, and he I used to come to dances and
you,re a dJ you,re r,rppor"i to chat. Matchodkie;; i sound monster'
see him in action. A"d a;;;;ecorded Skaing
West.I was therewhen he voiced it' That was a

MG And calYPso?
yeah, mon. calypso was great. what I love about calypso-was the music, and the
lyrics! Like Sparrow'
JJ teach me a lot' Ca\pso music was
Whenever Sparrow .o*" ifi"*ui.a I was "t*uy,
tlo"t"' Calypso musiclans
crude and so boring.
;;T;;;,ilg, not like the dancehall of today w6ich is so
MG How about Your work with Bob?

JJThatsongthathewrote...NatutalMystli?Hewasprobablytalkingabouthimself'
Seriously, he had to U" u rnyrtic in theearly duy"wfi"n *e were doin' recordin"
!g"*i" deh"'H5'pocrites' Nice Time' the
before Family Man, found-'Cet aBlow,dem kinda songs
lo-. studio, thit was him and Peter and Bunny'
]],1yil. W'hen Bob *oUa into the
first session I play with Bob, we did
when dem doin, dem o*n tittt" ting. I remember the
did Tfianft YouLord. that was
f;-;g" we did nypirilir,i"a #e aia he even went toweScratch
Ntce Trme, and
or Beverley's' And we
when BobJust left Coxsone y";. Before
first time I'm meetin' 'im' and
did four songs that aay.-Ani l"fi*"" you me, that was the
'im guitar, coursette had a ttring for bass'.
Bob came into the stuaio,-;im usually have
i;r;;, itiml"rt and usually when the artist come into
y..,[];. t* had a thing like biss,
(Iheophilus Bgckf-grd)
the studio they go o"". i" Ut" pi*o lifuyut - Gladdy'
or Snapping. '
thut i, how we ,^niny ao it in the studio. The
or whosoever is ptayin', or-Wi'nsto.r,'urri
and the piano,player find the key' and
artist go over to the piano-playel a1d srlq.tire:ongt
would come and stand in
find the progression, unJti.ti all of us fJl in. B,rtlob now
anything. No words. Nuttin".'Im wouldn't even
front of me with his g"itui u"a don't say
and
;;;Ail;hi, ri"t"" tJ truli';rt":"tt p]:i,rplirn giitar, and come.right in front of me'
stand up, and start,o pr"v Ji"g''close his efts' Yt||I'-ljil.Ytll tlf":y'i:*:,t^
""J *d?i"e *d pl+ And then after awhile, Mark' hewould
i-T,,io"J*i"il;;"I"d',fre
j."r.p;; il.y", u.,a l";k;y;;. ,.lJ"t ut.n"t" And that would be the signal - "This is
the guitar, and start
fi;;i "* ru"ii.g." That wouid be the signal for playit uplil":
me to pick
he start to slng again'
OO** " Une. e"na once I pick-up ft: b*.t and start l
iViif,-t[t"y", closed. n"J l* foliowing the song, and I m playin' qifler:nt different' line'
'im like,lm wouid start smilin'. And the better the line' the
-\nd when 'im hear a line that

FULL Wfittg. Vot. 3//No- 1

broader the smile. When is the right line, he
would just open his eyes and look at me. And ..:i.is ii[lNlurr':
that mean, that is the line to be played. You tell ;iiirlit
lhe
me that is not a mystic? And that's how it was
with Bob. All of the recording that I did with him,
that was how it was done. No words, no nuttin.' Ji'b[ii JA
n ,c
After that first session, then he went to Scratch,
and we did Small Axe, it wasJust the same way.
StorY "t+
iN!!\1,;s=.=:s.

And any time he was going to do a session, he

always...I was the bass player at the moment at
that time. There was a couple guys around, there
was about four of us. He would always ask for
me. 9 times out of 10I would be the bass man on
the session [between Studio One and Scratch,/Upsetters]. He would ask if it's me playin' bass. And all the songs
for Leslie Kong, Beverley's, he would just come and stand in front of me, and smile, and Just bein' mystic. Him
never call me Jackie, he always call me Bassie. Everybody is sayin'Jackie and 'im is sayin' Bassie. That was hir:
likkle name for me.

MG Tell me about some foreign sessions in Jamaica.

JJ We did a session for Eddie Kendricks, Keep On Truckin, that's us, and a lot of people don't know ttris, Killlig
Me Softly, Roberta Flack. But the one that's out now the one that you hear and that's on the record, that's not :s
We did the same riddim. If you listen carefully to that riddim, that is not American. Anybody can tell that is
not. . . an American musician would not play that song like that. You notice how empty it is? There's no instm-
ment in there except drum and bass and a keyboard, that was just us foolin' around, Jrunno. I can't remembe:
who the producer or the musical director was. He came, we were playing from [writtenl music. But the intems:-
ing thing is that from the minute we got into that studio, from the minute we drove in, the guy put on the rapr
and just let the tape roll. There was hundreds of rolls of tape outa that one session. Even when we were eadr
the tape was rollin'. But I suppose they were trying to catch us in our natural environment to say, how is thjs
thing done. And Killing Me Softly, that riddim came about by the producer bringing the music to us and sar.
"OK, let's try ttris song." And everybody put on the music, and the drummer started playing, no, he didn'r r;l:
play. Somebody started playing flrst, and then I started.. .you notice the bass, there's not a real line or an1' nc,.-:s
or anything. , .we were just fooling around, trying out the thing. We wasn't even rehearsin', yunno. We s'err . -si
trying the music. And the tape was roling. The tape kept rolling. And after a point, when I got my part. anc
Hrix and Gladdy and everybody got their part, we seh, "Mek wi run it dung and see how it feel." And thai -**as
what came of that session.

MG How was it in the days of two track?

JJ In the days of the two track, it was all of the instruments on one, and the vocals on the other track. Anc -:re:
four track came along, thank the Lord, because in the two track, you used to play out your soul becaus€ e\':r-,
time you take a cut, just because it was two tracks, all of the instruments pop up on one, sometime you rei::r:
and go back and listen, you cyaan hear something. And we seh "Alright, another run, mek we balance i: " ,\:l:
when you take another cut, 1ruh go back in there, this too loud now, and it went on like that for ever and ;i,e:
and ever. So thank the Lord that four track came along. There was a separation. And the first thing thar g,:r
separated was the bass. Because ln my days the bass ruled.

FULLWEITS.VoI- 3/No. 1