1

1
11]BISMILLAHIRRAHMA:NIRRAH:I:M
22]A CRITIQUE OF ENGINEER ALI MIRZA ON HIS BELIEF ABOUT ILM AL
3GHAIB(6a).
43]CRITIQUE

(3,1)

54]INTRODUCTION:=
6Engineer Ali Mirza has tried to prove (in his lecture 6a)that ILM AL GHAIB is an
7Attribute of Holy Apostles including
8Holy Prophet S:AV .See lecture 6a. How ever he differs from a Bans Barailvis on
9only in concept of ILM AL GHAIB but also in the interpretations of those Verses Of
10HOLY QURA:N which clearly Do Refute ILM AL GHAIB from each and every Ghair
11ALLAH without Exception.
12In this research paper we criticize only Engineer ALI MIRZA and his followers [ALI13MIRAIZ\ENGINEERITES\JHELAMITES etc.]
14This Excogitation is not concerned with Bans Barailvism.
155]BELIEF

OF ALI MIRZA ABOUT ILM AL GHAIB:-

16Engineer Ali Miraz of Jhelum believes that Holy Prophet [SAVS]does/did know ILM
17AL GHAIB.
18According to him Ghaib is a relative term and it means that some thing is beyond
19the SENSES of Human Beings.[It is generally assumed that there are five senses in a
20human being. How ever some believe in SIX senses and some in four senses. A
21number of philosophers believe in ten senses, five of which are said to be EXTERNAL
22five of them are said to be INTERNAL by them.How ever it is evident that Ali mirza
23do not believe in Internal senses. It is safely assumed that Ali Mirza believes in only
24five senses ].
25According to the Engineer Ali Mirza of Jhelum ; If there is a thing (say ) and some
26one gets its knowledge from five senses or from the means of scientific instruments,
27equipments, machines etc, through observations and experiments , then the
28knowledge of thing is NOT Ilm Al Ghaib. How ever if some one does get its
29knowledge from REVIELATION or ASPIRATION then the Knowledge of the thing (say
30)is ILM AL GHAIB, as according to the Enginner.
31Engineer further argues that DEITY ALL-H (SVT) is not ALIM AL GHAIB in the
32true/real meaning (Prime/First meaning), since ALL-H KNOWETH all things with out
33exception, and no thing is Absent from ALL-H.
Every thing is present in respect to
1
2
3

2
4
34HIM (SVT) in a single[and unit] Moment [of time]. So ALL-H is A:LIM AL
35GHAIB(KNOWER OF AL GHAIB) in relative meaning and not in absolute meaning;
36that is relative to HIS Creations and Creatures. Ali Mirza further proceeds as follow:37If the Holy Prophets know something from revelation then it is not AL GHAIB with
38respect to the DEITY ALL-H, but it is AL GHAIB with respect to other Rational
39Suppositums or Rational Existents.
406]A DELIBERATE MISCONCEPTION MADE BY ENGINEER ALI MIRZA OF JHELUM
41 Engineer ALI: MIRZ says that if some one [who so ever he may be] believes Holy
42Prophet [S:AVS] holds the Attribute Of Knowledge of Al Ghaib in the sense Holy
43Prophet has an Ability to know the events and things of Past , Present and Future,
44events in the world or outside the world , then it is Shirc. He very intelligently
45overlooked the belief of ILM AL GHAIB in the sense Holy Prophet DO/DOES Know
46each and every event and each and every thing from the Beginning to the End ,
47with out a single Exception. This is called
48CUL ILM MA:CA:NA VA YACU:NA ILA YAUMIL QIYAMAH. To say that the Holy Prophet
49[S:AVS] Does Know each and every event from the very Beginning to the very End ,
50IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS then to say Holy Prophet [S:AVS] had the capability or
51ability to know an event from the Beginning to End [whether in past or present or
52future] when ever Holy Prophet [S:AVS] WILLS TO KNOW.
53This misconception becomes a conspiracy when it is found that the believers of the
54said ability or capability are either not found or are rarely found , while the believers
55in CUL ILM MA CANA VA YACUNA MIN YAUMIL AUVAL ILA YAUMIL A:KHIR are
56generally found in abundance. This is not the whole problem, a very large number
57of them which are in multitudes also believe that CUL ILM MA: CA:NA VA YACUNA
58ILA YAUMIL QIYA:MAH [Of Holy Prophet (S:AVS)] is just a very small portion of ILM
59AL GHAIB of Holy Prophet [S:AVS].
60The proportion suggested by them between the former and the latter is the
61proportion of A WAVE OF AN OCEAN and the very Ocean Itself.
62Mathematical Representation of their claim is as follow:=
63W:O::C:I [In old formation] and

W:O=C:I

[In new information]

64Where W=Wave of an Ocean, O=The Ocean,C=CulIlm Ma:ca:na Va Yacuna Ilal

65Qiyamah,I=ILM AL GHAIB [ASCRIBED TO HOLY PROPHER(S:AVS) by these people].
66It is very stra
67It is very strange to see that engineer Ali Mirza does not condemn this belief or
68ever state this belief and condemn a belief which is rarely found. One may sense a
69great conspiracy in this.
2
5
6

3
7
70NOTES:=
711][Some time plural form of verbs in English are deliberately used for the Holy
72Prophet (S:AVS).,SOME TIME WITH\ OR/. This is plural of Majesty, not an error]
732] Ability is more correct word then capability but as the Engineer Ali Mirza has
74used the latter, so it was also mensioned.
75
76ALI

MIRZAS STRANGE DISCUSSION ABOUT ILM AL GHAIB

77AND

IMAN BIL GHAIB.

78Engineer Ali Mirza says that if Deity Informed His Prophet Through Revelation
79Or Aspiration, [Not through the Senses Of THE PROPHET], then it is AL Ghaib
80for the Prophet and Its Knowledge for the Holy Prophet is Knowledge of AL
81GHAIB. But when the Holy Prophet informed his Ummah about the thing
82stated above, then the knowledge of the thing is not the knowledge of Al
83Ghaib for the Ummah. How ever the faith of any Muslim [S:ah:abah] ON the
84thing after hearing \Listening directly from the Holy Prophet is Ima:n Bi
85Ghaib [Faith On Al Ghaib].
86This is what Engineer Ali Mirza says:877]SAMMARY OF ALI MIRZA MEANING OF THE WORD ALGHAIB
88What Ali Mirza Said CanBe Summarized in three points[N-ca:t]
89a]According to the Engineer the word AL GHAIB is a relative term. It is not an
90Absolute term. A term in Absolute meaning is Impossible since in absolute sense it
91means that a thing is even absent from ALL-H,
92Where as all things are present to DEITY in a single moment [A:N]of time.
93As its Absoluteness is impossible, the only possible meaning is a Relative Meaning.
94It is used only in this meaning. [All This Implies That Al Ghaib is not divisible In
95Absolute and Relative AL Ghaib].
96b] According to Ali Mirza of Jhelum as the term Al Ghaib is a relative term then it
97may be used for any [Created]Rational Suppositum and any [Created]Rational
98Existent with respect to other[Created] Suppositums and[Created] Existents.

3
8
9

4
10
99c]It is possible for a Muslim [S;AH:BI:] that knowledge of a thing is not the
100Knowledge of Al Ghaib, Yet the faith of the Muslim [S:AH:ABI:] on the very same
101thing is Faith on Al Ghaib.
102CRITIQUE OF THESE THREE POINTS OF ALI MIRZA:103Several Points may be presented against the [points of ALI MIRZA.
1041]He says that every thing is present for Deity in a a single moment [of time].
105The question is in what sense a thing is present in front of Deity.???
106If in the PHYSICAL SENSE then it is Impossible since Neither DEITY Nor DIVEN
107OMNISCIENCE Is Physical.
108If in the sense that it is not ABSENT from Divine Attributes Of
109SEEING/LOOKING,HEARING/LISTENING, and KNOWLEDGE, then in this sense no
110thing is AL GHAIB [whether the ting is Existent or Non Existent,
111Necessary or Unnecessary, Possible or Impossible, Absurd or Not Absurd, Contingent
112or Incontingent] then Nothing is AL GHAIB.
113How ever if it meaneth that it knowledge is only for the Deity then any thing that is
114ONLY KNOWN to DEITY is AL GHAIB.
115So by definition in the second meaning ABSOLUTE AL GHAIB MEANETH, A THING
116THAT IS BEYOND THE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL CREATIONS,CREATURES, RATIONAL AND
117IRRATIONAL SUPPOSITAMS, RATIONAL EXISTENTS ETC.]The term Absolute Ghaib
118doeth not mean to be Absent from the Omniscience Of ALL-H.
119Just like Absolute Power does not Include Divine Essence in It and Divine Essential
120Attributes in It.
121[ The term Absolute GHAIB does not includes things from Omniscience such that
122they necessary Exclude the Divine OMNISCIENCE.].
123In this meaning the term Relative Al Ghaib means that it is known to Deity, and to
124some of His creations.
1252]It must be noted that the word Ghaib have a number of Meanings .Ali Mirza of
126Jhelum is using this term in some other meaning as stated above.But if he has a
127right to use this word in one meaning ,others have an equal right to use the very
128same term in other meanings. [IF and THEN, argument].
1293] If every thing is Present for Deity in a single moment, then this moment is either
130the moment of time or it is an unit part of some thing beyond time. If it is the
131moment of time then time is also creation of one of the parts of the thing. This is
132impossible.
4
11
12

5
13
133 If it is a moment of some thing beyond time then it is either Makhlu:q or Ghair
134Makhlu:q. If Makhlu:q then it is a SHIRC to claim that All Makhlu:q are present in a
135part of Ghair Makhlu:q. If it is MAKHLU:Q thenit means that the thing it self present
136in itself along other things, and this is impossible. Some other impossibilities are not
137discussed for sake of brievity.
1384]What the Engineer has opined about Knowledge of Al Ghaib and Faith On Al Ghaib
139doeth Imply that he himself is taking the word al Ghaib in two Composite terms in
140two different manings.
141We must state this in form of a theorem:1428]CLAIM:143Engineer Ali Mirza Of Jhelum Have taken the word AL GHAIB in two different terms
144(a) ILM AL GHAIB (Knowledge of Al Ghaib)and (b)I:MA:N BIL GHAIB (Faith On Al
145Ghaib) [at least] IN TWO DIFFERENT MEANINGS.
146PROOF:
147Suppose a thing is Ghaib and its knowledge is knowledge of Ghaib in some sense
148of the word AL GHAIB for the Holy Prophet [S.AVS]. Let this sense be sense A.
149Now according to Engineer Ali Mirza Of Jhelum , if the Holy Prophet Informs some
150one about the thing say
151, the Knowledge of the thing say is not the Knowledge for the Person .But as
152the person [A S:AH:A:BI in our supposed case] certainly hath Faith on the thing ,
153the faith can not be the Faith On AL GHAIB in the sense A. Consider the faith of
154the Holy Prophet on the said thing which is supposed to be informed by Deity
155through the medium of REVELATION OR ASPIRATION. Since it is Impossible Upon
156The Holy
157Essence Of the Holy Prophet that he lacketh faith on anything if Informed by the
158Deity ALL-H. The Impossibility is undisputed.
159Faith of the Holy Prophet(SAVS) on the thing can be faith on Al Ghaib if the thing is
160AL GHAIB in the very same sense i.e Sense A.
161Faith of Holy Prophet Upon His Own Prophethood is Faith on HUD:UR since
162Prophethood of the Holy Prophet is an Attribute of the Essence of the Holy Prophet
163and the Knowledge of any one of His Attrribute for Him is ILM AL H:UDURI
164[KNOWLEDGE OF SELF AND IMPLIED BY SELF]not ILM AL GHAIB ( From any
165standard).
5
14
15

6
16
166If the knowledge of a thing is KnowledgeAl Ghaib in sense A of the word AL GHAIB
167then faith of the Holy Prophet [S.A.V.S] on the thing stated above is the Faith on
168the Ghaib in the sense A.(STRICTLY in

Sense A).

169Since Faith is impossible with out knowledge.

170Now consider the case of the Muslim stated above. According to the Standard Of
171Ali Mirza Of Jhelum.
172As the very same thing isAl Ghaib For the Holy Prophet S.A.V.S but not for the
173Muslim stated above in sense A of the word AL GHAIB, then the faith of the
174Muslim stated above is certainly Not Faith On Al Ghaib in the very same sense say
175sense A.Since it is Not Al Ghaib in the sense A.
176If it is Al Ghaib in regard to faith then the sense must be different say Sense B.
177Othewise even for the Muslim stated above the Faith of the said Muslim on the said
178thing is Not Faith On AL GHAIB in regard to sense A. This implies shift from one
179sense to an other sense of the word AL GHAIB as Engineer Shifts from one
180composite term to an other composite term.
181Q.E.D
182As the word AL GHAIB is used in both of the two composite terms in two different
183senses\ meanings proved above, the context of Ali Mirza is falsified , in which his
184senses are presented.
1855] From the above proof the following two results are concluded.
1865,1]If the knowledge of a thing say isKnowledge of AL GHAIB for the HOLY
187PROPHET SAVS, because the knowledge of the thing say is directly Reveled to
188Him [S:AVS] by Holy Deity [He did not acquired the knowledge fron normal senses]
189, Then Faith Of The Holy Prophet on the very same thing say
190 is Faith on AL GHAIB, keeping the sense\meaning of the word AL GHAIB
191conserved in both composite terms a] ILM AL GHAIB [Knowledge Of Al Ghaib]
192and b]I:MA:N BIL GHAIB [Faith On Al Ghaib]. Say the Sense or Meaning A.
193In the meaning A of the word Al Ghaib no one who is not directly reveled by Holy
194Deity ALL-H [SUBH:NAHU: VA TAA:LA:] can have Faith On Al Ghaib.
195This cannot be accepted even by Engineer Ali Mirza of Jhelum.
1965,2]If the faith of a Muslim on a thing say is Faith On Al Ghaib, in some
197Sense \Meaning B, even if the thing is orally and verbally informed by the HOLY
198PROPHET [S:AVS] then the Knowledge of the thing informed say is the
199Knowledge Of AL GHAIB. This is unacceptable
in the engineered system of the
6
17
18

7
19
200Engineer. Since he believes that only selected Apostles and Messengers Of ALL-H
201do have the Knowledge Of Al Ghaib.
202
2039]Possible Arguments Of The Engineer Ali Mirza Of Jhelum in His defence.
204 It is possible that Engineer Ali may try to defend his position. We do have tried to
205anticipate and to estimate some of his possible
206

Responses.

2071] As it has been said that no thing is AL Ghaib with respect to Deity ALL-H
208(SUBH:ANAHU VA TAA:LA:), and every thing is present in a single moment of time in
209Divine Presence [H;ud:u;r], then nothing can beALGHAIB For The Holy Deity ALL-H
210[Suh:anahu: Va Taa:la:],To call some thing as AL GHAIB is in relation to His
211Creations. This does shew that the word is used in a relative meaning for the Divine
212Case , and it is relative to Creations and Creatures Of Deity. Then the very same
213word in a relative meaning can be used for Creations .
214If One Creation Knoweth something and another doeth not Know It then THE Thing
215is AL GHAIB for the other creation. So the Knowledge of the That thing is Knowledge
216of Al Ghaib in regard to the second creation [OF ALL-H].
217In principle this defense is answered and replied. How ever in this case an other
218answer is provided.
219This defense means that if the frames of reference are Creations Of ALL-H, in the
220Divine Case, the same Frame of reference may be use in Case Creations relative to
221Each Other.
222This is one of the Great Fallacies made on self style reasonings.
223There is Only One Frame Of Reference and That is the Divine Case. As Deity
224Knoweth Knowledge Of Al Ghaib in the meaning the things That are Known To Deity
225Are Not Known to Any One Of His Creation [WITH OUT ANY EXCEPTION].
226So if a thing is ONLY KNOWN TO DEITYand No Creation Knoweth It then It Is AL
227GHAIB. If atleast one of the Creations of DEITY Knoweth It Then It Is Knowledge Of
228SHAHA:DAH WITH RESPEECT TO ALL-H [SVS].This same respect is conserved even
229for the cases of GHAIR ALL-H.
230Let suppose the case that ALL-H KNOWETH ABOUT A THING SAY, and only One Of
231His Creation Knoweth It.The rest of Creations Of Deity ALL-H do not Know It. Now the
232Knowledge of the thing for the Only Creation Of ALL-H that Knoweth It Cannot
233bde termed as Knowledge of AL GHAIB, since the frame of reference is conserved in
234the word AL Ghaib [ even if the word AL GHAIB
is relative.]. The word cannot be
7
20
21

8
22
235used in any other relative meaning in the TERM ILM AL GHAIB [Knowledge Of AL
236GHAIB] .
237The question may be asked that if a thing is only known to Only One Creation Of
238Deity and Not not known to any other Creation [with out any Exception] then what
239type of knowledge is it, Also what it may be called.
240[How ever one may suggest that it may be Called ILM MAKHSUS LIL MAKHLU:Q AL
241VAH;ID etc. But this is not ILM AL GHAIB .
242It either belongs to ILM ASH SHAHA:DAH if LAW OF EXCLUDING THE MIDDLE IS
243APPLICABLE BETWEEN ILM AL GHAIB AND ILM ASH SHAHADAH or THE
244KNOWLEDGE OF THE MIDDLE/MEDIUM if the said law is not applicable.
245 In either case it Excludes the Attribute ILM AL GHAIB ,where ther term is in the
246said meaning [i.e the things(whether Exitents
247,NonExistents,Necessaries,UnNecessaries,Possibles,Impossibles,Cotingents,Incontin
248gents,Absurds,Not Absurds) Are ONLY and ONLY Known to the ONLY and ONLY ILAH (
249DEITY)ALL-H (S.V.T)]. If it is ILM ASH SHAHA:DAH, it is With Respect to Deity, even
250if the Created
251Suppositum OR Created Existent have never seen by HIS/ITS/HER Physical Eyes. If it
252is accepted that il,m Bil Vah:y is not ILM AS SHAHA:DAH then any thing informed
253to Holy Prophet S:AVS By ALL-H SVT Through V-HY [Revelation\Aspiration] is Not
254Knowledge Of Al Ghaib irrespective of the fact whether OMNIPOTENT Deity ALL-H
255DID SHEW it to His Holy Prophet Or Not..
256The answer is that one may suggest a number of atomic or molecular terms for this
257thing but no one has right to call it Knowledge Of Al Ghaib by changing the
258meaning or reference of the word AL GHAIB in the composite term ILM AL
259GHAIB[Knowledge Of AL GHAIB].
260Further it must be noted that the different meaningof the word AL GHAIB is found in
261Arabic LAXITONS and Even In Textus Receptus Of Holy QURA:N. One may use this
262word in different meanings. BUT No one is allowed to use is word in some other
263meaning or sense IN THE CONSTRUCTIONS ILM AL GHAIB AND A:LIM AL GHAIB.
264[Itmust be noted that what so ever is true for the term ILM AL GHAIB
265[Knowledge Of Ghaib] is also True for the term A:LIMUL GHAIB [Knower of AL
266GHAIB], so the latter term is not discussed in particular.
26710]Conclusion Of

View of Ali Mirza:=

268Engineer Ali Mirza Opines that when a thing is informed to Holy Prophet (S:AVS) by the Holy Deity ALL-H through
269(the Medium of) Revelation or Aspiration then the Knowledge of the Thing is the Knowledge Of Al Ghaib for the Holy
8
23
24

9
25
270Prophet [SAVS]; but when the very same Thing is informed by the Holy Prophet [S:AVS] to S:ah:abah RD (orally and
271verbally) THEN this is Not Knowledge Of Al Ghaib but Faith On Ghaib.
272The reasons told by the Engineer are as follow :=
273A] Holy Prophet [S:AVS] hath seen it.
274B]The Ummah [ S:AH:BAH RD] hath not seen it.
275C] Holy Prophet [S:AVS] is informed through Revelation\Aspiration.
276D] Ummah [S:ahj:abah RD] are informed orally and verbally.
277This implies that there are two Necessary Conditions for the Knowledge of a thing to be Knowledge of Al Ghaib, in
278the system of the Engineer.
2791]Information through Revelation\Aspiration.
2802]Seeing the thing [ at least for a moment?]
281If any one of the condition is not satisfied then the knowledge of the stated abov thing ceases to be the knowledge
282of Al Ghaib.
283Consequenes

Of View of Ali Mirza:=

284 Consequences of View of Respected Ali Mirza are as fallow:=

2851] This does imply that Holy Apostle Of Allah did NOT HAVE Faith On Al Ghaib [Ima:n Bil Ghaib]. AL AYA:Z:. BILLAH
286TAA:LA.
2872] This does imply that if Holy Apostle Of All-h Hath faith on Al Ghaib then the Holy Apostle [S:AVS] hath not seen it,
288yet he hath been informed about it through Vah:y by ALL-H. The moment Holy Prophet\Apostle [S:AVS]seeth the
289thing His Faith On AL GHAIB easeth. AL AYAZ:. BILLAH TAA:LA: .
290An other important point which must be noted that the word Al Ghaib is used in two different meanings in two
291religious terms a] Knowledge of Al Ghaib. b]Faith on Al Ghaib.
292If they are in one and same meaning then this implies unbearable consequences inconsistent in the system of
293Respectable Engineer.294Suppose that the word AlGhaib is used in the term Faith On Ghaib in the very sense it is used in the term Knowledge
295of Al Ghaib.
296Then Faith On Al Ghaib BI-IMPLIETH Knowledge of Al Ghaib.This implieth negation of any one of the two implieth the
297negation of the other one in Bi-implication.
298This is not acceptable in the system of the Engineer , since ,this implieth Knowledge Of AL GHAIB to each an every
299S:AH:BI INPARTICULAR and each and every individual of Ummah in general.This explodes his system.
9
26
27

10
28
300Suppose that the word AlGhaib is used in the term Knowledge Of Al Ghaib in the very sense it is used in the term
301Faith on Al Ghaib.
302Then Faith On Al Ghaib BI-IMPLIETH Knowledge of Al Ghaib.
303This Bi Implieth negation of any one and negation of the other as stated above.
304This implieth that negation of ILM AL GHAIB FROM S:AHABAH IMPLIETH NEGATION OF FAITH ON AL GHAIB FROM
305S:AHABAH RD. A GARLIC FORM OF RAFID:IYAH.
306Even negation of Knowledge of Al Ghaib From Saiyiduna Ali RD implies Negatin of His Faith On Al Ghaib . AL AYAZ:.
307Billah TA:A:LA: .
308Itmust be noted that Rafid:yah is even a disgrace for Saiyiduna Ali RD and his two Fatimide Sons RD.Saiyiduna
309It is a Revenge Of Allah from the Engineer for disgracing Sayiduna Muaviah RD that the System Engineered IS even
310against Ali the forth Caliph of Islam.
31111]LITERAL MEANING IS NOT ACCEPTED EVEN IN THE SYSTEM ENGINEERED BY THE ENGINEER.
312 It must be noted once for all that the literal meaning of the word Ghaib
313meaneth UNSEEN.
314[The word AL is the Arabic Definite Article. When the word is used
315Anarthrous then it may be in definite sense on the demand of context].
316But this meaning is not taken by the engineer in the term Knowledge Of Al
317Ghaib. Since he restricts ILM AL GHAIB [Knowledge Of AL Ghaib] ONLY to
318APOSTLES OF ALL-H.If the meaning Unseen is taken in the term Knowledge
319Of Al Ghaib then ILM AL GHAIB becometh a common Attribute of all human
320beings. For example if a person hath not seen MACCAH\MAKKAH ,MADINAH,
321BUGHDAD , BERLIN , LONDON , DAHLI [DEHLI\DELHI] then each of the stated
322above places is AL GHAIB for him, and the knowledge obtained and acquired
323by AL KHABAR AL MUTVATIR [CONSECUTIVE NEWS] kis the knowledge. But
324Respectable Ali Mirza cannot accept that it is a common Attribute of All
325human beings.He believes that it is an Attribute Of chosen Apostles Of ALL-H.
326Now it is crystal clear that Engineer himself takes some meaning of the word
327in the composite terms and rejects the other meanings. The choice of
328meaning is upon his own resoning. But he has no right in insist on his
329selected meaning.
330[ Anarthrous meaneth unarticulared noun, Greek: Anarthros]
33112]CHANGES

IN THE MEANINGS OF RELIGIOUS TERMS ARE

332PROHABITTED.
10
29
30

11
31
333In the terms of Religion [AL IS:T:ILA:HA:T AD DI:NIYAH] meaning are conserved
334and any other meaning whether real or virtual, primary or secondary is strongly
335prohibited . In certain cases use of Religious Terms in some other meaning is
336Cufr\Kufr, is some cases it is Fisq and insome cases it is Unorthodoxy and Heresy
337[Bidah]. In this section this aspect shall be discussed INSHA: ALL-AH.
33813]DIFFERENCES

OF ALI MIRZA FROM BANS BARAILISM IN

339REGARD TO ILM AL GHAIB AND IN REGARD TO A:YA:T
340REFUTING IT FROM GHAIR ALLAH.
3411]Bans Barailism and ALI MIRZAISM [ JHELUMISM/ENGINEERISM] differ on two
342issues on ILM AL GHAIB.
343Bans Barailvism believes that CULILM MA: CA:NA VA YACU:NA is Included In the
344ILM OG AL GHAIN,which is known to Holy Prophet S:AVS. A number of Bans
345Brailvis do believe that the tota knowledge of NABI AS is like an Ocean and CUL ILM
346MA : CA;NA VA ACU:N ILA: YAUMIL QIYQMQH is like a wave on the surface of the
347Ocean. On the other hand some BANS BARAILVIS are satisfied with the belief that all
348the Knowlede Of Al Ghaib Of Nabi S:AVS is included in the stated above CUL ILM
349MA:CA:NA VA YACU:NA ILA: YAUMIL QIYAMAH.
350On the contrary the sect\cult of Ali-Mirzaism [and ALI MIRZA HIMSELF]is silent on
351the issue as if he is not certain whether this CUL ILM MACANA VA YACUNA ILA:
352YAUMIL QIYA:MAH belongs to the Knowledge Of Al Ghaib ascribed toNABI S:AVS,
353or it does Not.
3542] Engineer Ali: Mirza [Founder of Ali-Mirzaism\Engineerism sect ] differ from Bans
355Barailvism in the responces of[ Argumentations from ]A:YA:T presented by Majority
356of AHLUSSUNNAH VAL JAMA:AH
357Against the claim of Attributing Knowledge of <Al Ghaib> <and Knowledge of All
358that occurred and all that ocuur and all that shall occur from the beginning of the
359Cosmos to the end of it or> Cul Ilm Ma: Ca:na Va Yacun Ilam Yaumil Qiyamah.
360Bans Barailism tries to particularize the word ILM or its derivations by Essential Ilm
361or its derivation.
362They accept that these YA:T are not M-H:CAM on Zahir [Apparent meanings\Literal
363Meaning].They accept that these words are particular in meaning if general in form.
364The Engineer instead of adopting this approach owes to the approach of Exception.
365He says that Some Apostles of ALLAH [Not All]HAVE EXCEPTION from these A:YA:T
366[Verses].
367He makes it as a ANALOGUE of SH-FA:AH.
11That shall be discussed latter.
32
33

12
34
368The reason is that his teacher Shaikh Zubair Ali Zai strongly disliked to discuss in
369terms of Essential [Z:,A:TI:] and Bestowed [ATA:I]. So in respect of his teacher he
370also dislike these two terms.
371

NOTE:=

372 One may not think that the Engineer never uses the term like Essential [Z:.a:ti:] and Bestowed
373[At:a:I] is his lectures. He has used these terms in his lecture 6a. He has also willingly or
374unwillingly said that Divine Knowledge is Essential and the Knowlidge Of Holy Prophet [S:AVS]
375Is Bestowed. What is meant is not that he never uses these Philosophical and Theological
376terms. He some times does do so. The point is some what different . He does not particularize
377the word ILM or its derivatives [S:-RF/MORPHOLOGY] by ILM AZ:.Z:.A:TI and its suggested
378derivatives, as Bans Barailivis often do, he makes an EXCEPTION. It is another matter that as a
379result of this exception he accepts the division of Essential and Beastowed.
380So according to Bans Barailvism the AYA:T are particularized [TAKHS:I:S:] primarily, and in Ali381Mirzaism Exception is made Primarily. Please keep this difference between the two sects in
382mind while hearing lectures of Engineer ALI: MIRZA OF JHELUM.
38314]ARGUMENTS OF ALI MIRAZA:=
384 Argument of Engineer Ali Mirza is quite simple.
385He says that as ALL-H SVT [HATH] CATAGORICALLY Denied All sorts of
386SHAFA:AH in Surah AL BAQARAH Verse 254.
387But in the next AYAH ALL-H, BAQARAH Verse 255 ALL-H[ SVT] Maketh an
388Exception, The same is the case with ILM AL GHAIB. Ins some verses ALL-H
389HATH
390CATOGARILY DENIED ILM AL GHAIB FROM ANY OTHER EXISTENT as if it is a
391
Specific Divine Attribute[LUQMA:N:34;AL ANA:M:50 ETC.] But In
392
some other
393A:YA:T ALL-H [ATTACVIR:24;AL JINN :26,27;A:L IMRAN:179;]Hath made an
394
Exception for some Of His His Holy APOSTLES.
395LET THE SET Of A:YA:T WHICH DENY ILM AL GHAIB FROM EVERY ONE EXCEPT ALL-AH BE
396
CALLED SET A.

12
35
36

13
37
397LET THE SET OF A:YA:T WHICH ARE PRESENTED BY THE ENGINEER TO MAKE

IN THE AYA:T OF SET A BE CALLED SET B.

398
399

15]DISCUSSION ON THE ARGUMENTS:=

400ANALIZATION

OF ALI-MIRZITE ARGUMENT:=

401There

are two Sets Of A:YA:T. Set A consisteth Of Those

402A:YA:T,Which deny ILM AL GHAIB from ALL Except ALL-H. Set B
403consisteth Of Those A:YA:T A about which Engineer ALI MIRZAH
404claimeth that they make an Exception for Some [Not All] Apostles
405Of ALL-H.
406This

is based on a secret argument, which Must be Exposed at

407this level of discussion.
408Engineer

ALI MIRZA Thinks that IZ:HA:R OF GHAIB [Exposition Of

409Ghaib] and IT:T:ILA: OF GHAIB [Information Of Ghaib] are Either
410two Types Of ILM OF AL GHAIB [Knowlegege Of Al Ghaib] or
411imply It.
412The

argument of ALI Mirza is complited.

413NOTE;
414There

are atleast two types of Knowledge. A]Knowledge Of Al

415Ghaib. B] Konowledge Of Ash shahadah.
416If

law of excluding the middle is applied to them then any type of

417Knowledge that is not Knowledge of al Ghaib is the Knowledge Of
418Ash Sha:dah.
419But

if this law is not applicable then there are Mediums between

420the two. In this case ILM BIL IT:T:ILA: is
421At

least one Medium between the two.

422ANSWERING and REPLYING Engineer Ali Mirza Of Jhelum.

13
38
39

14
40
423AYA:T of Set B do not make any exception in any one of the AYA:T of Set A neither
424Collectively nor individually. Since Neither IZ:.HA:R Of Ghaib Nor IT:T:ILA: Of Ghaib is ILM
425AL GHAIB but ILM BIL VAH:Y [Knowledge Through Revelation\Aspiration]. The claim
426that<< If a thing which was initially not in the Knowledge Of Holy Prophet [S:AVS] and Not
427Known to Him, does come in His Knowledge then it is ILM AL GHAIB>> is based on the
428definition Engineered by the Engineer. ILM BIL VAH:Y cannot be termed as ILM AL GHAIB
429This is not a problem of Literal meaning but a term of DI:N and SHAR.
430A Knowledge implied by IT:T:ILA: (information) or IZ:HA:R (Exposition) are ILM BI ITTILA
431ALA GHAIB or ILM BI IZ:.HA:R ALA GHAIB. So they belongs to a separate category of
432Knowledge and cannot make an Exception.
433If literal meanings are to be chosen then the VERY same trick can be played for the term
434ILM BIL VAH:Y. A person may claim VAH:Y for himself, and if enquired , he may open Books
435Of Arabic LAXITONS arguing that he has used the said word in this or that meaning and not
436in the religious meaning.
437INCORRECT

INSERION OF A WORD TO DISTORT THE

438TRANLATION OF AN A:YAH.
439 Engineer Ali Mirza has incorrectly translated the part of A:YAH 50
440SURAH AL -NA:M LA ALA-M AL GHAIB
441As I by my [own self\khud ] do not know.
442Where as this A;yah means:443

I DO NOT KNOW

444 The difference between the two is very sharp. The addition of the
445word in brackets had particularized the meaning of the verse. This is
446a Tahrif in meaning.
447The meaning taket by Ali Mirza means that the verse saith :=
448I BY MY OWN SELF DO NOT KNOW AL GHAIB, as if I may know by the
449Self Of Deity Other than My Self. AL AYAZ BILLAHI TAALA:.
450But the real meaning is general in regard to the negation of
451Knowledge from the Self Of Holy Apostle [S:AVS].
452I DO NOT KNOW meaneth NEITHER I KNOW BY MY SELF NOR BY THE
453SELF OF ANY OTHER OR BY ANY SELF OTHER THAN MY SELF. SINCE
454I DO NOT KNOW IT ATALL.
455This translation was adopted by the Engineer Ali Mirza from the
456sect of Bans Barailvism. But if he 14
follows them at one place , he
41
42

15
43
457should follow them at other places as well. It is starange to se that
458Ali Mirza disagree from them on the issue of H:a:d:ir va Na:z:.r
459[Omnipresence of Holy Apostle (S:AVS)].What an Engineerig behind
460the Engineered System of the Engineer? To disagree from a sect at
461one place and to agree with the very same sect on the other place,
462just to shew his neutrality.
463An Intrinsic Answer from the very verse:=
464IT IS EVIDENT AND OBVIOUS THAT IF THE WORD IN SQUARE
465BRACKETS ARE EXPONGED OUT FROM THE
466MEANING\TRANSLATION ;THEN THE VERSE I NOT ONLY
467CATAGORICALLY DENIETH THE KNOWLEDGE OF AL GAHIB FROM ALL
468TYPES OF SELVES WHETHER IDENTICAL OR DISTINCT, BUT CERTAINLY
469DEFINITELY AND EXPLICITLY DENIETH THE MEANING TAKEN BY
470ENGINEER ALI MIRZA.
471He even do not informs his audance that the omission of the word[s]
472stated above change the meaning of the verse. If one may ask why
473not to claim of exception instead of inserting in meanings.
47416]RELIGIOUS TERM AND THEIR FIX MEANINGS
475 Them meaning of religious terms cannot be changed where they be atomic or composite.
476Example1: The word Nabi means one that informeth.
477But it cannot be used for any informer. Even ALL-H Cannot be called Nabi in this sense.
478It is clear that All-h Informeth Holy Prophet [S:AVS] but ALL-H and His Angles cannot be called
479Nabi\Anbia.
480Example2:
481Word Qura:n Meaneth TO Read or To Recite. But no other Book beside theBook Of Qura: n
482canbe called Qura:n.
483Example3:
484A man cannot be called Creator of his acts even if the meaning of the words To Creat
485[infinitive],Creator[Active Participle],Creation [Noun derived from Infinitive] Creativity [An Other
486Noun] are changed.
487Example 4]
44
45

15

16
46
488 Ali Mirza uptill now Engineer ALI Mirza agree with AHLUSSUNNAH [And who knoweth the future]
489that Dua Can only be asked from ALL-H. But if some one says Dua can be asked from some Ghai
490ALL-H as well,and if it is argued that this is a shirc, it is responded by this person :=
491I have changed the meaning of thde word Dua and I do not take the meaning you take, then
492such a trick cannot save such a person from Shirc.
493An evidence from past.
494Engineer Ali Mirza is a young man,but about two hundred years ago there was a man in Laknow
495[India] whose name was ABDUR RAHMAN.
496This person changed the meaning of the Arabic word IL-H [DEITY] in the Expression of Tauhi:d [C497L-M-H OF TAUH:ID] LA: ILA:HA IL LAL LA:H AL A:Z:. BILLAHI TAA:LA: .
498What he concluded based on some reasoning [ far more advanced then the reasoning
499Engineered by the Engineer] That LA:L UZZA, HUBAL are all ALL-H . AL AYA:Z: BILLAHI TAALA: .
500Then further proceeded to prove All things are ALL-H . AL AYA:Z:. BILLAH TAA:LA: .
501On of the CUFRIC MODELS OF VAHDATUL VUJUD.
502He committed a similar fallacy, the fallacy of changing the meaning of Religious Terms.
503Some Hindus and Jains often ask a question by changing the meaning of the word ILAH in the
504Holy Expression of Uniticiy given above.
505They change the meaning of Ilah from One that Really Deserveth To Be Worshipped
506To An Object Of Worship.
507They say BESIDE ALL-H there are several Objects Of Worship say Idols and Statues, even if they
508do deserve to be worshipped.Then the make an objection that Expession Of Unicity cannot be
509true. AL AYA:Z:. BILLAH TAA:LA: . They repeat the fallacy of ABDURRAH:MA:N OF LACKNOW [INDIAN
510SUBCONTINENT].
511SEE FATAVA AZIZIYAH EDTION 1973 AC, CARACHI.
512The word AL GHAIB in the expressionILM AL GHAIB has very specific meaning and cannot be
513changed. Outside this construction it may be used in some other meaning as well.
51417] A DELIBERATE FALLACY:=
515A]It has been claimed by the Engineer Ali Mirza OF JHELUM that:=
16
47
48

17
49
516 It shall not be said for every thing \event that the Nabi: [AS] did\do not know
517this , Nabi [AS]does\do not know that. How ever if it is evident for an event\thing
518then it can be said with certainty and certitude.
519Explanation:=
520Engineer Ali Mirza means that one should not say:=
521Holy Prophet [S:AVS] does\do Not know that this event or that event which
522occurred in the past, or which occurs in present or shall occur in future[Arbitrarily
523selected] from the beginning of the world to the end of the world; unless and
524otherwise the knowledge of a thing is negated by a H:ADI:S or an A:YAH.
525This is an implicit support of Bans Barailism that Holy Prophet does know CUL ILM
526MA CANA VA YACUN ILA YAUMIL QIYAMAH.
527If he has taken a neutral approach he would have said some thing like the
528following:=
529A] Neither Say That Holy Prophet [S:AVS] did\do know an event Arbitrarily
530selected from Cul Ma Cana Va Yacuna Ila Yaumil Qiyamah, Nor Say that Holy Prophet
531did\do know the event. [or]
532B] It shall be said for every thing \event that the Nabi: [AS] did\do not know this
533, Nabi [AS]does\do not know that. How ever if it is evident for an event\thing then it
534can be said with certainty and certitude.
535So he does agree with Bans Barailism that Holy Prophet is attributed by the
536Attribute of Cul ILM MA: CA:NA VA YACUNA ILAL YAUMIL QIYAMAH.
537How ever for his own reason he does not want to say it explicitly. He therefore said
538it implicitly. But his views are exposed after analyzing his views microscope .
539One may believe what he may likes yet this is a very dangerous trick embedded
540secretly in his so called research paper, a very intelligent technique to convert a
541person to the belief of Cul Ilm Ma Cana: Va Yacuna Ila Yaumil Qiyamah.
542
543He deliberately uses ambiguous statements and sentences to confuse his
544auduance.
545This is way it is suggested that Lectures of Engineer Ali: Mirza are extremely
546dangerous for those who are unable to understand the problem in depth.
547B]Engineer ALI MIRZA states that ALL-H whatso ever Hewilleth, When ever He
548Willeth, what quantity of Knowledge He Willeth, He Bestoweth to Holy Prophet.
17
50
51

18
52
549There are certain conditions which ALI MIRZA deliberately did not mensioned.
550With out these conditions it is a fallacy.
5511]This Knowledge is not Knowledge of al Ghaib.
5522]This Knowledge is Not Cul Ilm Macana Va Yacuna Ila Yaumic Qiya:mah.
553Engineer ALI MIRZA deliberately neglected them.
55418]AH:aDiS
555Engineer

Ali Mirza has presented sevsral S:H:I:H ul ASNA:D

556Ah:adi:is to prove his points.
557These

Holy Tradition Of AHA:ADI:S do not prove his point. Since

558they do not prove that the Holy Prophet [S:AVS] Hath the
559Knowledge Of AL GHAIB. They only do prove that Holy Apostle
560[S:AVS] was reveled and aspired from ALL-H. This is discussed
561above that ILM BIL VAH:Y is not ILM AL GHAIB. Engineer ALI:
562Mirza has committed the same fallacy when he argued from the
563Traditions Of AH:A:DI:S, which he has earlier committed when he
564argued from A:YA:T Of ALQURA:N AL MUQADDAS. So instead of
565discussing each and every Tradition, this is supposed to be a
566sufficient Reply and a perfect Answer of all of his arguments from
567them.
568Some
569He

Points specially Discussed by Engineer Ali Mirza.

mentions the following points:=

5701]Divine

Knowledge is Essential and the Knowledge Is Bestowed.

5712]

Divine Knowledge is Eternal [QAD:IM] and Knowledge id

572Temporal [H:A:DIS:.]
5733]Divine

Knowledge is Infinite [LA MAH:DU:D] and Knowledge is

574Finite [MAH:DU:D]

18
53
54

19
55
575But

he did not mention that if some one denies any one of the
576above,whether he remains a Muslim or not????And is there an
577IJMA: on these Issues.
578Why

Engineer Ali Mirza did not mention these points is a very

579important question.
580Some

discussion is needed in this context.

19] An Urdu Translation Published by

582K.S.A
581

583 Engineer Ali Mirza: has also argued from a translation of Holy Qura:n
584published from the Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia.
585This translation is made by Maulana: Muh:ammad of Juna Garhh. But the
586commentary is made by S:ALAH:UDDIN:N YUSUF.It is reviewd byDr.
587Vas:iyullah Bin Muh:ammad Abba:s AND Akhtar Jama:l.
588On page 192 the commentator does say that ALL-H informs ILM AL GHAIB to
589his APOSTLES. This is a terrible mistake.
590The commentator and the reviewers have done an error and they over
591looked the difference between ILM AL GHAIB and
592IT:T:ILA: ALAL GHAIB. The latter is not a type of :ILM AL GHAIB but a type of
593ILM BIL IT:T:ILA:.
594So it is requested to the KING OF THE KINGDOM TO TAKE NOTICE OF THE
595ERROR and CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY.
596Otherwise Musrics like ALI Mirza and Ali-Mirzais [His followers] WILL TRY TO
597MISGUIODE MISLIMS OF THE WORLD.
598I suggest that it is necessary that Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia should make an
599other commentary,by a better commentator.
600How ever as for this commentator I think it is an error of pen. His error was
601not detected by two reviewers.
602May ALL-H forgave their Error [if it is of pen].THIS ERROR OF PEN HAS
603OCCURRED AT SOME PLACES. Since on page 358 the very same
19
56
57

20
58
604commentator categorically denies ILM ;AL GHAIB FROM EVERY ONE EXCEPT
605ALL-H.
606 Note there may be a number of spelling mistake which shall Insha Allah be
607removed latter.
608Note. Arabic Terms and their translations are used Alternatively.
609Note Capatilization Of Letters are either of Majesty or they shew emphasis.
610Note C is often used for K since K kis nlot classical Latin word.
611NOTE:=
612One

of the scholar has opined that ALI MIRZA is a student

613\disciple of Husain Najfi of Sarghodha and has shewn several
614examples that he actually follow Husain Najfi instead of Shaikh
615Zubaur Ali Zai. Najfi is a Neo Mutazilite Is:.na Ashrite, and Ali
616Mirza appears to follow him. His hatred of Banu Umaiyah in
617general and Saiyiduna Mua:viah RD in particular can be traced
618back to Husain Najfi instead of Shaikh Zubair Ali Zai, but he
619wrongly ascribes in to Shaikh Ali Zai to misguide Salafite minded
620people.
621The

task of Ali Mirza is to inject Shiism in SALAFISM in Particular

622and In All three sects of Sunnism ie Ashairah,Maturidiyah and
623Salfiah in general.AL AYA:Z:. BILLAHI TAA:LA;.

20
59
60