yt 7 vidum | cot Pld, sauna DISTRICT Date: February 4, 1963 FROM. wnvision of Regulatory Management L. Ron Hubbard Bureau of Enforcement Founding Church of Scientology ‘ Distribution Center, Inc, SUBJECT: Hubbard & meter et al 4-093 Be 7 FDC 48405 Mrs. Margaret «(John) Ochs Box 289, Gap, Pennsylvania BUEAnG Che course of our inventigation of Mr. L. Ron Hubbard, it was Getormined that ura. Margaret Ocho to (he stcpasther of Food’ aah Drug Officer Arnold Morton of Seattle District.) Mrs. Ochs was formerly Geich abe oeesieg ROD Hubbard, Sx., and was divorced in 1947 following Which she martied Mr. Cc. H. Horton, GBilaren of the marriage between L. Ron Wubbard end Margaret wore Ly kon Hubbard, Jr. (who has also been connected with thie operation) ond Katherine Hubbard, rahgyine Bubbard carried a Mr. Rod Whittaker tm 1956 and vae divorced im 1957, It io believed that Katherine Whitta! fatherina bes also boen connected with the Sctantology orgaat sation im Washington, D.C, Raclooure wnsperonLocercat onalefe. f ce ce this msm (2) ACTION rs Heese Seng 4Memorandum to FROM suayeer: UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AM 19°3 d DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES DISTRICT a“ DATE: March 18, 1963 LVN a. non nate Inspectors Donald L. Dovel Founding Church of Scientology and Dele E. Rarper Dianetice Foundation, Ine, Distribution Center, Inc. Hubbard E Meter eval 40930 FDC 48405 * A feference is made to Inspector W. Remle Grove/Philadelphia Mao of Fenrsaty 20, 1983, which relates an ineervisy between’ Inepector Grove and Mrs. Margaret Ochs of Gap, Pennsylvania. Mrs. Ochs was The above interview disclosed that the 2 children from the marriage between Margaret Grubb Hubbard(Mrs. Ochs)are now living in the Los Angeles area. Pursuant to DRM request memo of February 4, 1963, the daughter, Mrs. James P. Gillespie, 7455 Balboa Ave., Van Nuys, California and the son, L, Ron Hubbard, Jr., 6231 Palm Ave., Bell, California, were in- terviewed. 7 Inspector Harper and I visited the Gillespie residence of March 5, 1963. We rang the door bell several times withouth anyone answering the door, We inquired of the next door neighbor if Mrs, Gillespie was ADMINISTRATION: March 19, 1963 Submitted for your information. 2 Supervisory. Inspector Enel: = ec this memo. AEfidavit : Photocopy of ltr dtd 2/15/63 Photocopies of 10 licences for Church of ScientologyDLD/Dir LA Hubbard E Meter 4-093V FDC 48405 March 18, 1963 usually away during the day time, The neighbor replied that Mrs. Gillespie was usually home, as she did not work, We returned to the Gillespie residence about a half hour later, but once again we re~ ceived no reply to our doorbell ringing. We then departed and drove to a telephone booth where we telephoned the Gillespie home. A woman answered who identified herself as Mrs. Gillespie. She indicated the reason she did not answer the door was that she was suffering from the flu, but she agreed to talk with us on the following day at 1:00 p.m. On March 6, 1963, at the appointed time, Inspector Harper and I returned to the Gillespie residence for the interview, Mrs. Gillespie invited us into her living room where she seated us on the couch. There ‘was no one else present during the interview. We briefly explained the nature of our visit to her, at which time she informed the Inspectors that she was "pro-scientology". She expressed her dissatisfaction with FDA for its Washington action against the cult, We attempted to explain to her that the Government was not taking any action against any individual or group in the organization at this time as our seizure action involved inanimate objects only. She stated that she was employed by the organization in Washington, D.C. as a file clerk and receptionist from 1957 thru 1959. Mrs, Gillespie furnished us with very little factual information with respect to the E-Meter or the operation of the organization. She stated that she was not a qualified auditor and had not used the E-Meter. She indicated she had enrolled in only one of the cult's courses, but she did not complete it. This was stated to have been the Hubbard Certified Auditor Course. According to her, she knew of no type of claims that were made for the Meter during her association with the organization. She denied that any type of illnesses, either physical or mental, were treated or diagnosed using the Meter. She informed the Inspectors that the auditing sessions on the Meter had helped her considerably, but she declined to elaborate on this point any further. She hinted that this was of a personal nature and did not involve any illness or disease. Mrs. Gillespie informed us that Hubbard and his organization had done "considerable good in the world". She described herself as a conservative Republican who had the ppinion that the Government hed no inherit right to decide what was right for the individual. Mrs, Gillespie stated that she is not presently connected with the organization in any manner having been inactive since 1959. She further explained that the Psychiatrists and Psychologist were beginning to adopt Hubbard's principals, especially in the areaDLD/Dir LA Hubbard E Meter 4=093V FDC 48405 March 18, 1963 of pyschosomatics. She indicated that she personally felt the E-Meter was useful, particularly to the neurotic person, but she would not make any statements with respect to its usefulness for any other type of mental or physical illinesses. We inquired if any specific belief or faith was necessary to be “helped" with the Meter. She stated that this was unnecessary and membership in the church was also not required for a person to be helped. She also mentioned that if one desired to join the church of Scientology it would not be necessary to give up one's present faith or otherwise interfer with your regular religious beliefs or practices. This concluded our interviewrwith Mrs. Gillespie. On March 5, 1963, Inspector Harper and I visited the home of L, Ron Hubbard, Jr., 6231 Palm Ave., Bell, California. The woman who answered the door identified herself as Mrs. Hubbard and told us her husband was at work. She indicated he would be willing to talk with us at their residence as soon as possible. Mr. Hubbard agreed to talk with us at his residence on March 7, 1963, at 2:30 p.m. On March 7, 1963, Inspector Harper and I interviewed L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., at his residence. Mrs. Hubbard was also present for the interview. Mr. Hubbard began the interview by commenting that he was avare of FDA's action in Washington and was in complete sympathy with our position. He explained that he is presently employed by the American District Telegraph Co. of Los Angeles as a serviceman. He became associated with his father's organization upon his graduation from high school in 1950. The younger Hubbard rose in the organization until he became exceutive secretary, an office currently held by John Fudge. In addition to being the exceutive secretary, Ron Jr. was also technical director, ancinstructor, and certified auditor in the organization. He pointed out that he was also an "ordained minister" in the Church of Scientology. In 1959 Ron Jr. resigned his position and completely severed all ties with the organization, After his resignation, the orgenization revoked ali his certificates. He stated his primary reason for leaving the organization was financial. He explained that the most he ever earned in any given year with the organization was $2200. Some weekly pay checks were as low as $10 he stated. As the living costs were somewhat steep in the Washington area, he stated he could not maintain his wife and children on this meager salary. Another reason for leaving was that he lost faith in the organization. Personal observation proved to him that the basic ideologies of the cult did not work out as they had claimed. He explained that other people who were not Scientologist; appeared to him to be justDLD/Dir LA Hubbard E Meter 4-093V FDC 48405, March 18, 1963 as happy and normal with no more problems then the staunch disciples of Scientology. He indicated that there was also considerable friction with his father in all matters involving the organization. Ron Jr. re~ ferred to this several times during the interview as "the party line", Ron Jr, indicated that his father was constantly in conflict with someone. Ron Jr, explained that the Washington situation had his om family in such turmoil that his wife threatened to leave him if he did not get out of the organization. On November 23, 1959, he resigned his position with the cult and left for California. After arriving in California, Ron Jr. stated he tried auditing on his own for ahile, but was not éuccessful financially, so he soon discontinued this practice and tried a more convential means for pro- viding for his family. He stated that he had two other jobs before his current one with American District Telegraph. He was laid off from his previous job because of a manpower cut. He explained that he has recently passed American District Telegraph's security clearance. According to Ron Jr., the E-Meter is used by the culc to treat all diseases, both physical end mental, He stated one reason he became Giscouraged with the cult was a result of his personal experiences in- volving the E-Meter. He explained that the Meter simply did not produce the results that were claimed for it by the cult in all respects, in- cluding alleviating or curing diseases. He told us the organization professed to be able to successfully treat all diseases, as they are pyschosomatic in origin. Although they openly claim to be able to treat and diagnose all disease and illness, they say the E-Meter does not treat or diagnose any disease, however, the E-Meter is an essential tool for the auditor to produce “beneficial” results of any kind. According to Ron Jr., anyone who wishes to purchase an E-Meter may do so without” ever having been connected with the organization or being a member, simply by sending the money to England. He stated that the use of the E-Meter does not require the subject to be a member of the church or profess any faith in God or any similar deity. 20 He estimated that an auditor would spend froms§3to $5000 teking training with the cult to become a qualified auditor. He thinks there are about 2,000 auditors in the United States at the present time. Each auditor must still continue to pay money to the cult even after he has been "certified", The cult is constantly revising its courses and techniques, Ron Jr. explained, so it {s necessary for the auditor to keep himself up-to-date if he is to remain in good standing with the organization. Ron Jr. said it was "like holding a carrot in front of a donkey". Regarding the cult's being a church, Ron Jr. stated “the Church of Scientology is a church in name only", He stated this was done toDLD/Dir LA Hubbard E Meter 4-093V FDC 48405 March 18, 1963 circumvent legal difficulties. The Internal Revenue Service, in 1959, ruled that the group must pay taxes as they did not fully meet the requirements for a non-profit organization. He stated that the cult hired a law fim in Washington to contest the Internal Revenue Service ruling, but this was to no avail as the ruling was upheld, We could not recall any other particulars about this during the interview. He stated the organization indirectly had some trouble with FDA in 1957, He mentioned that some physicians connected with the organizatior were attempting to market a food supplement or vitamin preparation called Diazine, but the manufacturer(name not known)was charged with misbranding the product, because it was low in potency,so the cult dropped all in- terest in the product. Ron Jr. stated that his father raised considerable opposition to the Alaskan Mental Health Bill in 1955 or '5S6. Ron Sx. thought this bill gave Psychiatrists and Psychologists to much power. During the interview Ron Jr. displayed his certificates and "degree} from the various related organizations of the cult. These include ten different items which he permitted us to photocopy. These are submitted along with this memo. He stated that three of these were supplied to him by his father without any specific training or taking any courses. Those which were awarded to him withouth any qualifications were the Doctor of Divinity Degree, dated July,1954; the Hubbard Scientific Auditor Degree, dated January 11, 1953; and the Hubbard Dianetic Auditor Degree, dated January 31, 1951. He also displayed two crosses which he said were worn by Scientology Church ministers. These consisted of a regular Christian cross with a superimposed rope like cross which he identified as the "symbol of everlasting life, We mentioned to him that this euggested to us that the crosses indicated the church members were followers of Christ. He informed us that this was not so, as the cult was a church in name only and there was no worship of any kind @nducted at the so called services. We inquired if Ron Jr. would be willing to sign an affadavit that would include the fore going information. He voluntarily agreed to do so and even stated that he would be willing to testify for the Government if it were necessary. On March 11, 1963, Inspector Harper returned to the Hubbard resi- dence in Bell, California, and prepared a 2-page affadavit in collaboration With Le'kon Hobberd, Jr. This effedavit da aceacked, Doral LI I9eadh Abe DOWLD Le DOWEL” = AND “DALE ta Tnepector Tnopector Tos Angeles Districe\y 8 e \hy hoof Almericg Fy Oe pentane | Stip Up gt Unt tt ge ‘now all men bp our witness that idles this date has been recognized and selected bp Our Council as a Doctor of Divinity and bp the power invested in us by our Articles of Incorporation and the (atws of the stare of Arizona we do empotwer him to practice Divine Healing, to give Spiritual Advice, co hear confessionals, and to officiate at marriages, funerals, baptisms and other sactaments, and co perform all other dutics that may devoloc upon him as 2 Winister of said Church of American Science. LnpeaARa‘ SOS CHHML Sor Gr ont ’ ace et Aenean _teeeg gn i emg _BPEHE ssn us oF use p88 horBoard of Exaniuers, Hubbard Professional Callege Gubberh Bianetic Reavarch ouwadation : _ Monenix, Arizona Be it fino by these presents that: £. Ron Rubbavd, Be. has satisfactorily completed the professional course in Bianetic Terhuique. Having established by our examination that me can plare special confidence in his skill and ability me do hereby certify him as an . : maa Gubbard Bianetic Auditor " By one hangs ana Seat ie yer ay of IK.7 BOARD OF EXAMINERS Vitra CERT, NUMBER® ® The A Gubbard Association of Scientologists Cz Be it knotun by these presents that has passed our examination and is fully qualificd to practise Dianetics and Scientology and is a praaa, i a ; 7 “ Gubbard Cortitied Anditor. YD lyZiq ov: Bond and Seal this__JS any of Duco her, sa... > Zig a Gertibente/ amber for Signature@ @ Gubbard Association of Srientologis! Cz K) i i! \ Habing especial trust in his shill and regard for L, Ron Habberd Grr: fue do hereby attest and recommend bis ability in practise of Dianetics and Scientology and habe the hm to atvard him the grade of Hubbard Graduate Auditor.Zo ‘rtifente Sumber@ @ cL He bbe (a ae Arientologists, Gr. Phoenix, Arizona Be it known by these presents that ‘the Degree of HUBBARD GRADUATE AUDITOR has been granted to £. Ron Rabbard , de By our bender this eal ee feel of WIPage 1 of 2 i AFFIDAVIT : Seapie No. state of Foe bshos county of Betore ae, 1,0 employee of the Department of Health, raubacton, and” Mel fare, Food the Bele Rela totrucion, Seatsnates oy ne seca cea authority Be bre ASE OF January 33, i025, 43 Statutes at Large 90S (5 U.6.C. 621); Reorganization Plan No 4 Secs, IF 16, effective vine 30, i940; and Reorganization Plan No. 1°Gf 1088 Secor tier ertechtre Mrit 11, 1965, to administer or taxe oaths, affirmations, and affidavits, personalsy anectes An the county and State aforesaia, wo, being — Bars? day SR eepeety ane eaper ‘Gn Ron tubbart (sr.) Coy tether, is the orjoinal founder of the Founding Church of Scientology. It began with(ay father studying dianctics An 1948/19. Around 1950, he began vriting artigies on the subject and oren= fually formed groupe in Carden, NeJe} Wichita, Kensas} Los Angele, Calif. Phenix, Ariz.y and London, England, The roligfous aspect (Scientology) vas introduced eround 1952. It bocamo @ church in name only, for incone=tax 28 reunvent legal gifticulties. In 1959, the cult was fore to AG 3s taxes by fhe Interne! Revenue Servieo (Federal). An appeal vas made to have the organization classed es a non~profit organization, but to the best of ny knowledge, this eppeal ves lost. : Tho organization also bad difficulty with the FDA in 1957 because of 2 food supplenent/vitemin preparation ("Diazine") vhich vas handled by tho HD's who vero tienbers of the organization. The result vas that the ites vas dropped by the cult vhen action vas taken against the menufacturor (unknown to ne) because of misbranding (low potency). The eult vas not involved in this action, I can think of no other use of drugs by the cult, 1 became associated with the organization a) pyoaneettins Sah OieEmeatentan Gr (1950) CI even Wali: decane Exceutive Secretary in Washirgton, D.C., © position Rov held by John Fudges "I vas also Technics! Directer and an ordained Minister in the chanch Of Scientology. In addition to my other duties, I vas engaged in teaching tified Auditor.) The following certificates vere received by ne without any perticuler [training! Deetor-of-Divinsty-7/28/58) , Hubberd-Dianetic-suditor.(1/31/51)7— vtard Certified Auditor (1/11/52). 1 was alao issued the degree of feachelor of Ecientolony 48 Hay, 1954) and the degree Doctor of Scientolouy in July, 1958. All tho cortificates vore revoked by tha organization@hen I resigned en Royenbor 23, 1959. I resigned for 2 nunbor of reasons, including financial end Inck of faiths I never sev a case becoming conpletely "clear',/ There saeeage aitant tumovor in techniques, in vhieh the old onso would be emnYy,{7 /PRStBy discarded and the ouditors vould havd to be ro-trained (at their “2 C&k expense). a a sien ane morn te seone te ape ; 5 this__gaey cay of 19. wa o Af, are Sabena Me ite ase Welfare dest mace under Act of Jenuary Si, 1028, Reorgaatzation Plan 1V effective June 20, 1940; 2: Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 40SS, eftective sort 1, 3985, FD-463a (Fev. Feb. 1958)