Awakening - recognition or developing?

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Awakening - recognition or developing?

by DarwidHalim Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:46 am
P
o
According
to you, the way of awakening (enlightenment)
s
atprocess of developing something?

is actually a process of recognition or

As a note:
These 2 things are very different.
DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08,
2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither
Samsara nor Nirvana

In recognition, what you are aiming or looking for is already there. You only don't know or don't
recognize it. Like impermanence. You recognize it or not, things are always impermanent.
In developing something what you are aiming or looking for is not there. You have to make it.
Like making a cake from flour, water, egg, etc.
How about awakening? Is it a matter of recognition (in sense that everything is already there,
only you can't see it) or is it a matter of developing or creating (in the sense of I must make
awakening or I must make enlightenment, because now there is no awakening or
enlightenment).
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
o
p

santa100
Posts: 1739

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by santa100 Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:02 am
P

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11506&p=173992[18/8/2558 1:54:41]

Awakening - recognition or developing? - Dhamma Wheel

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011
10:55 pm

Development and Recognition should not be treated as mutually exclusive processes. Just like
the process of making diamond. It's certainly important to recognize the diamond core
available from within. But without the hard work of development, by constantly chipping away
the dirt and the crust, recognition alone will not be able to help one attaining that beautiful
piece of diamond..
o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by Goofaholix Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:16 am
P
o
s
DarwidHalim wrote:
t

According to you,

Goofaholix
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sun Nov 15,
2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

who?

DarwidHalim wrote:

How about awakening? Is it a matter of recognition (in sense that everything is already there,
only you can't see it) or is it a matter of developing or creating (in the sense of I must make
awakening or I must make enlightenment, because now there is no awakening or
enlightenment).

That's two different viewpoints, which is a good thing, if one only sees something from one
viewpoint then one only has a 2 dimensional image.
I'd say an improvement on both of those viewpoints is that awakening is a relinquishment, an
abandonment of greed, aversion, and delusion etc.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is
wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But its difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But
it does not require a great deal of energy. Its relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are
aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by DarwidHalim Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:02 am
P
o
s
santa100 wrote:
t

DarwidHalim
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Sep 08,
2011 11:49 am
Location: Neither
Samsara nor Nirvana

Development and Recognition should not be treated as mutually exclusive processes. Just like
the process of making diamond. It's certainly important to recognize the diamond core available
from within. But without the hard work of development, by constantly chipping away the dirt
and the crust, recognition alone will not be able to help one attaining that beautiful piece of
diamond..

I think this example is better in conveying my question.

Is awakening is like a process of cleaning or cutting or finding the diamond? In this sense you
acknowledge and know exactly there is a diamond here. I just need to find it, then clean it or
cut it. The diamond is already there, so awakening is the process of finding "something", which

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11506&p=173992[18/8/2558 1:54:41]

Awakening - recognition or developing? - Dhamma Wheel

is already there. (Recognition)

Or
Is awakening is like a process of making the diamond? In the sense there is really no diamond
(zero diamond) in the first place, so you make the diamond. (Making/developing)
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

ground
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25,
2009 6:01 am

by ground Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:05 am

P
o
s
DarwidHalim wrote:
t

According to you, the way of awakening (enlightenment) is actually a process of recognition or a

process of developing something?

First there is nothing left to be abandoned and then there is knowledge about that.
Kind regards
o
p
vitellius
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009
3:21 pm

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by vitellius Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm
P
o do you feel about development of recognition? It's like you develop ability to recognise and
How
s
prerequisites
to it. In three main elements of the path, ethics and concentration deal more
t

with development, and wisdom, the third, deals more with recognition.
o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by SDC Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:02 pm
P
o
s
Oleksandr wrote:
t

How do you feel about development of recognition? It's like you develop ability to recognise and
prerequisites to it. In three main elements of the path, ethics and concentration deal more with
development, and wisdom, the third, deals more with recognition.

SDC
Posts: 1481
Joined: Mon Dec 14,
2009 11:08 pm
Location: Left Field

My thoughts exactly.
o
p
santa100
Posts: 1739

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by santa100 Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:09 pm
P

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11506&p=173992[18/8/2558 1:54:41]

Awakening - recognition or developing? - Dhamma Wheel

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011
10:55 pm

"Is awakening is like a process of cleaning or cutting or finding the diamond? In this sense you
acknowledge and know exactly there is a diamond here. I just need to find it, then clean it or
cut it. The diamond is already there, so awakening is the process of finding "something", which
is already there. (Recognition)
Or
Is awakening is like a process of making the diamond? In the sense there is really no diamond
(zero diamond) in the first place, so you make the diamond. (Making/developing)"
Actually we could safely rule out the second option right.. one can't just turn any rock into a
diamond nor one can't expect to get a tree by planting a pebble. About the first option, it'll
need to involve both development (work and effort) and recognition (recognizing the
potentials)..
o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by retrofuturist Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:11 am
P
o
Greetings,
s
t

DarwidHalim wrote:

According to you, the way of awakening (enlightenment) is actually a process of recognition or a

process of developing something?.
retrofuturist
Posts: 15729
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008
9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne,
Australia
Contact:

C
o
n
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a
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t
r
e
t
r
o
f
u
t
u
r
i
s
t

I think it's both - initially with an emphasis on the former as we learn the workings of samsaric
causality via the noble eightfold path, but later there is an emphasis on the latter, as we, with
that view confirmed, use it to gain right knowledge and right release.
This accords with the "Tenfold Noble Path" of the arahant.

MN 117 wrote:

Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right
view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In
one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right
livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness,
right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right
knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors,
and the Arahant with ten.

Metta,
Retro.
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one
is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but
that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)
I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing,
blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes. (MN 31)
Never again...
o

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11506&p=173992[18/8/2558 1:54:41]

Awakening - recognition or developing? - Dhamma Wheel

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by kirk5a Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:44 am
P
o can allow for AWAKENING as a potential at some point out there in the future (whatever
We
s
that
is, arahantship or something I guess), but we can practice being awake right now. Which
t

I
would say is neither a process of recognition nor a process of developing something. It is simply
being wakeful. Which I find quite beneficial.

kirk5a
Posts: 1894
Joined: Thu Sep 23,
2010 1:51 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I
am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing?
Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
o
p

Re: Awakening - recognition or developing?

by Spiny O'Norman Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:00 am
P
o
s
DarwidHalim wrote:
t

According to you, the way of awakening (enlightenment) is actually a process of recognition or a

process of developing something?

Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009
8:46 am
Location: Suffolk,
England

I think it's a positive cycle of development and recognition.

Spiny

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