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COUNTY OF ALAMEDA
DEPARTMENT 22
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JANE DOE,
)
)
Plaintiff,
)
)
v.
)
)
WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND )
TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW )
YORK, INC., a
)
corporation, et al., )
)
Defendants.
)
)
_____________________)
No. HG115588324
ASSIGNED FOR ALL PURPOSES TO
JUDGE ROBERT McGUINESS,
DEPARTMENT 22
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JURY TRIAL
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JUNE 6, 2012
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DAY 6
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ATKINSON-BAKER, INC.
COURT REPORTERS
(800) 288-3376
www.depo.com
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JOB NO:
A604D2B
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
BY:
BY:
Hayward, CA 94541
Tel: 510-582-1080
Fax: 510-582-8254
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Email:
kellyk@fjslaw.com
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Email:
rick@fjslaw.com
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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
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BY:
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Tel: 619-224-2848
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Fax: 619-224-0089
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Email:
jim@mccabelaw.net
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(CONTINUED)
APPEARANCES (CONTINUED)
BY:
Sacramento, CA 95814
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Email:
Schnackr@jacksonlewis.com
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--oOo--
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INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS:
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--oOo--
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INDEX OF EXHIBITS:
NUMBER
ADMITTED
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9
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21
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--oOo--
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JUNE 6, 2012
10:53 A.M.
PROCEEDINGS
THE COURT:
All counsel --
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this matter.
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of it.
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agreement.
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punitive damages.
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I will listen to
verdict/non-suit.
Okay?
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
All right.
Mr. Simons, to you as to
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MR. SIMONS:
All right.
you.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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I have it as
modified.
MR. SIMONS:
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that correct?
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
By my note, yes.
Yes.
Okay.
introduction of 401.
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MR. SIMONS:
issue.
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MR. SIMONS:
Okay.
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"negligence" or "fault."
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
1005.
Yes.
And my notes say that.
Yes.
Thank you.
sexual battery.
as to 1306.
3700.
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3904A.
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MR. SCHNACK:
3904B.
Again, those are already
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MR. SIMONS:
Right.
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correct.
Counsel is
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
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All right.
3905 and 3905-A.
3925.
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5006.
5009.
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116.
5012.
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THE COURT:
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All right.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
On that recitation.
All right.
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gentleman.
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argument.
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read.
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So
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MR. SCHNACK:
your Honor?
THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
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testified on.
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
Mr. Simons.
That standard, your Honor, may
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jury.
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He did that on
THE COURT:
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that there are differences between the state law and the
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All right.
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verdict/non-suit.
directed verdict.
MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
I would.
Okay.
Mr. Schnack.
Frame it
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MR. SCHNACK:
Just to
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familiar with.
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counsel.
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witness.
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state court.
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improper here.
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THE COURT:
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So I would
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children.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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very broad.
to child abuse.
things:
several times.
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legal requirements.
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child abuse.
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MR. SIMONS:
your Honor.
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I'm sorry.
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confidence.
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different.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
All right.
It is
verdict.
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punitive damages.
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damages.
Absolutely no evidence
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not.
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convincing evidence.
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witnesses.
argument.
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All right.
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basic instructions.
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Basic
Casey.
MR. SIMONS:
I'm
catching up here.
Your Honor, 401, it is the reasonable person
standard of negligence which would apply in this case.
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suggesting it should.
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THE COURT:
I understood that.
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All right.
To defense counsel.
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Absent the
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MR. McCABE:
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warn?
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THE COURT:
I agree.
I agree.
And so your
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it.
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All right.
As directly.
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All right.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
Yes.
It says 3932.
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MR. SCHNACK:
table next to us.
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THE COURT:
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Okay.
Standard of care.
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Okay.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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Candace Conti.
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THE COURT:
So we don't believe it is
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give it.
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But on
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And
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that's my ruling.
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I am going to
Okay.
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3
All right.
consideration as to verdict?
MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
Mr. Simons?
BY MR. SIMONS:
Q.
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was any evidence for this jury to find that she was
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negligent.
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He may not
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
Honor?
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
Sure.
In the same way that he
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worked on it.
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MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
instruction.
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MR. McCABE:
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warn.
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THE COURT:
He knew the
At that
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bit.
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
But that is
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general community?
THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
Okay.
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
Sure.
He testified that he read all
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I'm
THE COURT:
And if he didn't do
Well, I know.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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father too.
stepmother.
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MR. SCHNACK:
Kendrick?
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
Right.
The victim and the mother were
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
12
THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
16
THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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in a minute.
MR. SCHNACK:
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We are
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THE COURT:
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else.
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If you convinced me to
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time they deal with any clergy case, then they have to
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duty.
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duty.
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public policy with the facts in this case that the duty
circumstances.
If I
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MR. SCHNACK:
If I'm
you do.
MR. McCABE:
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and that's the same problem because the same duty that
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be on the hook.
THE COURT:
That kind of
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geography.
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Okay.
To
I am
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though.
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one.
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one.
And I really
Sacramento.
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parties here.
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of breach.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
Sure.
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All right.
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special instructions.
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of these.
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All right.
that?
MR. SIMONS:
Yes.
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THE COURT:
If we want to do
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I do
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MR. SCHNACK:
Okay.
I think we can
Kendrick.
THE COURT:
Right.
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MR. SCHNACK:
by name.
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
I agree.
I do too, and make that simple.
Could we also have a special
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THE COURT:
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That's Number 2.
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keep it simple.
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MR. SIMONS:
Just
for my taste.
And the wording instructions on this stuff,
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you heard what I said about the first one, and I would
things.
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MR. SIMONS:
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it overbroad.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
Right.
Good argument by Mr. Simons, but
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agency.
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things.
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sentences each.
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MR. SCHNACK:
Honor?
you --
THE COURT:
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All right.
Special relationship.
MR. SCHNACK:
I fully
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THE COURT:
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it.
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that.
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That will
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have taken this case and put it out in bold for a tort
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2
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MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
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MR. SIMONS:
strenuously.
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THE COURT:
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duty.
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parties.
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And so far
Because, I believe
So I will reserve
I'm
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activity.
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All right.
MR. SIMONS:
Yes.
defense.
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THE COURT:
Okay.
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MR. SIMONS:
14
THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
16
THE COURT:
17
There
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Yes.
MR. SCHNACK:
I have them.
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
And I
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One reads:
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THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
Denied.
Go ahead.
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church-sponsored activities.
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THE COURT:
Therefore, you
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But Dr. Salter testified that she believed the 1993 the
THE COURT:
MR. McCABE:
I agree.
It is outside her province to
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MR. SIMONS:
Her
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THE COURT:
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with.
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the instructions.
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Okay.
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38
circumstances.
report in 1993?
MR. SCHNACK:
MR. McCABE:
Absolutely.
Yes, sir.
MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
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on this.
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And noting
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Okay.
I am going to review it in
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all.
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I don't want
On what day?
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MR. SIMONS:
morning.
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MR. SCHNACK:
had a question.
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Okay.
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THE COURT:
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was no easy job to this judge, but that was easier than
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. McCABE:
That
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MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
get the cases brought to me, and they are both talking
MR. SIMONS:
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MR. SCHNACK:
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said.
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THE COURT:
We can.
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notes.
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relying on it.
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And
MR. SIMONS:
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report.
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THE COURT:
to clergy.
Okay.
Let's go to -- and I will give you my
argument.
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MR. SCHNACK:
10
Am I correct?
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THE COURT:
12
(Brief Break)
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THE COURT:
Okay.
The
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dealing with --
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It is
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the last few days, this is the closest to the way I have
And, of
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malpractice.
And so I'm
protect.
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constitutional grounds.
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different.
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action.
25
responsibility.
43
congregation.
That, I understand.
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
trust.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. SIMONS:
I understand.
But it does say placing the
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children is inherent.
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field service.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
19
There is not.
Well, the defense is on one side
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MR. SCHNACK:
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whatsoever.
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THE COURT:
There is no evidence
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MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
And
infinitum.
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Okay.
And I
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whatnot.
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1
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4
I think we
So...
MR. SCHNACK:
And that's
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THE COURT:
Also, you
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here knew.
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known.
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46
religion.
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colors to it.
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One
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for application.
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25
MR. SIMONS:
47
THE COURT:
It does.
very strong reasons why I'm coming down where I'm coming
academic discussion.
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11
MR. SCHNACK:
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practically.
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MR. SIMONS:
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abundance of caution.
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48
THE COURT:
10
MR. McCABE:
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14
out.
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THE COURT:
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MR. McCABE:
17
THE COURT:
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MR. McCABE:
19
Please.
First one is volunteers.
I have it highlighted.
The second part is the presence
or --
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. McCABE:
There is no evidence
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23
defendants.
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25
THE COURT:
49
be the description?
6
7
MR. McCABE:
Members or others.
He is only a
member.
MR. SCHNACK:
MR. McCABE:
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11
Congregation.
12
THE COURT:
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16
MR. SIMONS:
17
THE COURT:
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21
MR. SIMONS:
22
THE COURT:
Oh, my goodness.
If I keep you
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suggest.
25
All right.
50
thoughts.
2
3
MR. McCABE:
warning.
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8
THE COURT:
And I have
MR. McCABE:
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warn.
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19
THE COURT:
So there is a
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25
51
that.
that.
Candidly, I liked
bit.
8
9
I'm going
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breach.
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complex circumstance.
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25
MR. SCHNACK:
52
expect to penitent --
THE COURT:
to do something.
paid money.
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
He did.
And I'm saying that out of
10
11
12
Reporter told me, it was not used as a make way for not
13
disclosing.
14
MR. SIMONS:
15
"privilege."
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17
THE COURT:
18
MR. SIMONS:
Yes.
Because I'm trying to remember
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21
testimony.
22
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25
THE COURT:
53
1
2
MR. SIMONS:
booth.
6
7
THE COURT:
here.
All right.
I wanted to be fair
Is that Clarke?
MR. SIMONS:
MR. McCABE:
It was Clarke.
10
11
12
He was just
THE COURT:
All right.
13
MR. SIMONS:
14
15
either be:
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And then:
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the law?
22
THE COURT:
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25
54
the Court.
do.
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11
Okay.
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-- is a breach of duty.
14
15
MR. SIMONS:
16
But I
17
THE COURT:
No.
To the Plaintiff.
The
18
inference.
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20
with any expert who said what the law was on the
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25
breach.
I want to
I want to deal
55
1
2
3
4
evidence is fine?
I believe we do.
MR. SIMONS:
MR. SCHNACK:
Yes.
I believe there was a Casey on
THE COURT:
All right.
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circumstance, too.
15
Here is where I
16
believe we are.
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going to brief.
20
Plaintiff's Supplemental 1.
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25
56
year old.
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7
MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
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MR. SCHNACK:
11
THE COURT:
12
THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
22
THE COURT:
thinking about that.
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25
That's
with children.
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another time.
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20
Candace.
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18
MR. SCHNACK:
15
16
13
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you.
8
9
That's correct.
I was just reflecting and
Okay.
MR. SCHNACK:
children.
57
THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
I agree.
Absolutely.
Carolyn Martinez.
5
6
MR. SIMONS:
The
MR. McCABE:
THE COURT:
Okay.
was there.
10
MR. SIMONS:
11
was it?
12
13
Mr. -- I'm not sure who said, "Oh, yes, the Bible study
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been...
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MR. SCHNACK:
her house.
19
MR. SIMONS:
20
21
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23
THE COURT:
when.
24
Okay.
25
MR. SCHNACK:
58
Bible study.
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
THE COURT:
Five.
Okay.
Photo.
And basically the content of the
10
MR. SIMONS:
11
12
13
until I heard."
14
THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. SIMONS:
Right.
Which does go to causation.
I agree with that.
So I don't want to be precluded
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19
20
MR. McCABE:
21
22
MR. SIMONS:
23
24
25
Yeah.
was a molester.
THE COURT:
Right.
listen to that.
59
1
2
MR. SCHNACK:
THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
Okay.
Anything you
My suggestion is if he is
instruction.
MR. SIMONS:
No.
It doesn't go counter to
10
11
12
13
THE COURT:
issue.
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15
MR. SIMONS:
18
It doesn't go to negligence, it
goes to causation.
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17
THE COURT:
liability.
Right.
But it is relevant to
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23
differently.
So
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. SCHNACK:
60
liability.
instruction is worthless.
MR. SIMONS:
And
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MR. SCHNACK:
Kendrick.
As to the liability of
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12
THE COURT:
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14
instruction.
15
MR. SIMONS:
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18
negligence.
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THE COURT:
But
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25
61
8
9
10
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those occasions.
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62
Okay.
8
9
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13
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MR. SIMONS:
expert opinion.
17
THE COURT:
18
19
this.
20
Okay.
21
22
Okay.
23
addressed.
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25
63
says.
through my hands.
MR. SIMONS:
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duty?
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THE COURT:
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all on this.
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it should be.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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period.
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And
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should be.
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MR. SIMONS:
evidence, though.
THE COURT:
MR. SIMONS:
And I
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
I understand.
So once she gets to testify that
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right.
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well, how that was interpreted may differ, but you were
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MR. SCHNACK:
clergy.
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THE COURT:
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MR. McCABE:
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notification.
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MR. SIMONS:
MR. SCHNACK:
struck from Opinion Number 8, that was the part that was
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THE COURT:
issues.
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THE COURT:
MR. SCHNACK:
this morning.
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Anything else?
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Okay.
MR. SIMONS:
I haven't seen
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MR. SCHNACK:
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items?
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THE COURT:
Those two
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MR. SCHNACK:
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substantive change.
That's the
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MR. SIMONS:
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MR. SCHNACK:
agents.
Not the
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THE COURT:
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ad hominem.
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this.
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though.
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Remind me,
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prior one.
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papers.
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
Right.
Versus an allocation of fault
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for any other conduct which the agents may have engaged
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both defendants.
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issue.
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THE COURT:
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I mean is
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MR. SIMONS:
both entities.
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THE COURT:
said.
MR. SCHNACK:
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those.
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MR. McCABE:
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MR. SCHNACK:
And I
Absolutely.
And that's an instruction that
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MR. SIMONS:
Yes.
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is not.
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THE COURT:
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All right.
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MR. SCHNACK:
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THE COURT:
All right.
Bring at me anything
active in replying.
everybody.
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I will be very
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limiting instructions.
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MR. SIMONS:
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about to impose.
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THE COURT:
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MR. SIMONS:
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THE COURT:
Sure.
And just a page or two.
I will just tell you, I will
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--oOo--
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
I, KATHRYN LLOYD, CSR No. 5955, Certified Shorthand
Reporter, certify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
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____________________________
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72