Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.

com Community

Page 1 of 6

Cheresources.com Com m unity G eneralChem icalEngineering Forum Student

ChExpress
Blog 10/15/14
R ead the latest
new s from the chem icalindustry
in Christa's blog.
Featured
Articles
Check outthe
latestfeatured
articles.
File Library
Check outthe
latestdow nloads
available in the
File Library.
New Article
Product
Viscosity vs.
Shear

Featured File
Air VesselSizing
for W ater
H am m er
Prevention
New Blog
Entry
Selection of
M arine Loading
Arm s-posted in
Ankur's blog

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance

Started by sjam shid,Feb 23 2013 10:49 AM

Share this topic:

0

M ore

Posted 23 February 2013 -10:49 AM

sjam shid
H iG uys,

I am trying to perform a sim ple m ass balance on a single stage desalter.I have 60000 BPD ofoilw ith 4000 ptb,and 5% w ash
w ater w ith 400 ptb.Iknow thatw ater effluentis 6667 BPD and crude oileffluentcontains 0.2% w ater.

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.com Community

Page 2 of 6

I know itshould be a pretty sim ple and straightfow rard calc,butcannotw rap m y m ind around it.Can anyone please give
som e guidance?
Thanks in advance,
J

Posted 23 February 2013 -01:43 PM

ankur2061
sjam shid,
R efer the attached sketch.The various term s in he sketch are defined as follow s:
A = inletw ater flow rate in oil,BPD
E = m ixing efficiency
K a = salinity ofinletw ater in oil,lb/bbl
K c = salinity ofoutletw ater in oil,lb/bbl
K y = dilution w ater salinity,lb/bbl
Y = dilution w ater flow rate
C = flow rate ofresidualw ater in the outletoil,BPD
V = disposalw ater flow rate,BPD
K v = disposalw ater salinity,lb/bbl
k = salinity,ppm
SG w = w ater specific gravity,dim ensionless
Q 0 = oilflow rate,BPD
X a = inletw ater cut,expressed as fraction
X c = outletw ater cut,expressed as fraction
Z = oilsaltcontent,PTB
N ow try solving the m ass balance.This should be enough guidance to give you a start.
G ood luck in perform ing the m ass balance calculations.
R egards,
Ankur.

Attached Files

(http://w w w .cheresources.com /invision/index.php?

app=core& m odule=attach& section=attach& attach_id=6480) Single_Stage_Desalter.jpg
(http://w w w .cheresources.com /invision/index.php?app=core& m odule=attach& section=attach& attach_id=6480)
28.12KB

82 dow nloads

Posted 25 February 2013 -06:14 PM

kkala

Probably som e data is m issing,as follow ing can indicate."BPD ","ptb" quantities are supposed atsom e "standard"
tem perature.
1.Crude in :60000 BPD (blue figures are given quantities).
W ater in:60000x5% = 3000 BPD
W ater effluent(brine):6667 BPD
Crude out:60000+3000-6667 = 56333 BPD (assum ed sam e as "crude oileffluent").
2.Saltw ith crude in :60x4000 = 240000 lb/d (ptb=pounds per thousand barrels).
Saltw ith w ater in :4x400 = 1600 lb/d
Totalsaltin :240000+1600 = 241600 lb/d
Assum ed saltcontentin brine out:33000 ptb,figure m issing (red figures arbitrarily supposed for an exam ple).
Saltw ith brine out:6.667x33000 = 220011 lb/d
Saltw ith crude out:241600 -220011 = 21589 lb/d (*)
Extentofsaltrem ovalfrom crude:1-21589/240000 = 0.91,or 91%
3.1 "D esalting ofCrude oil" can be seen in N elson,Petroleum Refinery Engineering,M cG raw -H ill,1958),pages 265-268.

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.com Community

Page 3 of 6

3.2 O ne could m easure another quantity (e.g.saltcontentofcrude out)instead ofsaltcontentofbrine.

3.3 (*)W ater contentof0.2% in crude outw ould m ean 56333x0.2% =112.7 BPD ofw ater.Assum ing alldiluted saltis in
w ater,its saltcontentw ould be ~190000 ptb,w hich is unrealistically high (expected around 33000 ptb).O r probably 0.2%
w ater is too low .
O n the other hand usualsaltrem ovalefficiency is ~ 90% (per 3.1).Ifthe data is experim ental,new m easurem entw ith
additionaldata has to be realized,to clarify the balance.
3.4 Saltcontentof35636 ptb in brine w ould resultin "saltw ith crude out" 241600-6.667x35636 = 4015 lb/d, and salt
content4015/0.1127 = 35625 ~ 35636 ptb in the w ater ofcrude out.This could close the saltbalance in theory,butsalt
rem ovalefficiency from crude w ould be (240000-4015)/240000 = 98.3 % ,w hich seem s too high.
3.5 Com m ents on allabove textare w elcom ed.D esalter brine m etin localrefinery had saltcontent~1.5 g/l= 526 ptb,
differing to presentpicture.

Edited by kkala, 25 February 2013 - 06:35 PM.

Posted 26 February 2013 -03:35 AM

ankur2061
sjam shid,

W hen doing desalter calculations the w ash w ater (dilution w ater)is generally notan input.Itis a calculated value based on
the m ixing effciency ofthe w ash w ater.Ifitw ere so sim ple as an input= outputand w ith convenientassum ptions then
anybody w ith basic understanding ofm ass or m aterialbalance could do it.
As per the sketch I have provided w ith the notations,the w ash w ater qty thus becom es:
Y = A*(Kc -Ka)/ E*(Ky -Kc)
w here:
Y = w ash w ater flow rate,BPD
A = oilstream flow rate,BPD
E = m ixing efficiency as a fraction (input,generally betw een 0.7 to 0.8)
Ka = saltcontentofw ater in inletcrude oil,lb/bbl(input)
Kc = saltcontentofw ater in outletcrude oil,lb/bbl(the desired value or desired output))
Ky = saltcontentofthe w ash w ater,lb/bbl(input)
O nce you calculate Y,the w ater balance ofthe desalter gets solved
The brine disposalflow rate can be easily calculated:
V = A + Y -C
O nce you know the values ofA,Y,C & V,the saltcontentofthe disposal(brine)stream becom es sim ple as per the salt
balance provided below and you don'thave to m ake any assumptions.
Kv = A*Ka + Y*Ky -C*Kc / V
w here:
Kv = saltcontentofthe brine (w aste stream ),lb/bbl
D esalter calculations are thus done w ith the w ash or dilution w ater as an unknow n entity and notas an input.
R egards,
Ankur.

Posted 26 February 2013 -04:52 AM

kkala

Concerning postno 4 (by ankur2061),follow ing notes could be helpfulfor those seeking clarification ofthe query.
1.The m atter concerns m ass balance,notdesalter design considerations.
2.W ash w ater input(stream Y on the thum bnailofpostno 2)is given as 5% ofcrude oilinput(localrefinery:3-5% ofvolum etric
flow ofcrude).

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.com Community

Page 4 of 6

3.To clarify stand ofpostno 4,please apply itusing the specific num bers given in postno 1.Specific issues w illgetm ore
clear.
4.Com m ents on postno 3 (by kkala)have also to be specific,preferably on calculated num bers (w rong,right?),to help
readers and reality.

Edited by kkala, 26 February 2013 - 04:56 AM.

Posted 26 February 2013 -05:18 AM

ankur2061

Basis ofassum ption of33000 ptb saltcontentin brine has notbeen explained in post# 3.kkala is requested to provide the
sam e.Post# 4 provides the basis for the w ash w ater or dilution w ater calculated quantity based on the m ixing efficiency
w hich is how a m ass balance is done for a desalter.
N ow here post# 4 has tried to design the desalter (design,ifsom ebody has the conceptofit,m eans sizing ofthe desalter
vessel).O nly the m ass balance is provided based on sound logic and w ith no assum ptions.The m ass balance provided in
post#4 is based on the follow ing inputs:
1.Flow rate ofincom ing oil
2.W ater contentofincom ing oil
3.Saltcontentofincom ing oil
4.Saltcontentofw ash w ater
5.D esired outputofsaltin outgoing oil
6.W ater cutofoutgoing oilfrom the desalter
7.M ixing effciency
The outputs ofthe m ass balance are as follow s:
1.W ash w ater flow rate
2.Brine solution flow rate
3.Saltconcentration ofw aste brine solution
N o assum ptions have been m ade as regards to the contentofsaltin the brine solution w hich post#3 has so conveniently
m ade w ithoutproviding any explanation.N o further explanation is required thatthis is how a m ass balance across desalter
needs to be done.

Posted 26 February 2013 -05:48 AM

kkala

Postno 6 (by ankur2061)is noted,butletthe status be cooled before a briefresponse.M eanw hile itm ay w orth w hile looking
into postno 3 (by kkala).View s can be ofcourse different,readers can judge and take the usefulpartofeach.
Edited by kkala, 26 February 2013 - 05:51 AM.

Posted 27 February 2013 -02:30 AM

narendrasony
D erivation ofthe form ula provided by Ankur for calculating W ash w ater flow rate (BPD )
U se follow ing m ass balance equations (Refer Post-2 by Ankur for N om enclature):
Water (or brine) balance:
A+Y=C+V
D eslater inletw ater:
From (1)& (2):

A + E *Y = B
C + V = B + Y * (1-E)

-(1)
-(2)
-(3)

Salt balance:
A * Ka + E * Y * Ky = Kb * B = Kb * (A + E*Y) -(4)
N ote that
Therefore

Kb = Kc
A*Ka + E*Y*Ky = Kc * (A + E*Y)

- (5)
-(6)

O r Y = A*(Ka -Kc)/ E*(Kc -Ky) as given by Ankur.

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.com Community

Page 5 of 6

R egards
N arendra

Posted 04 M arch 2013 -08:27 AM

kkala

N egative feedback on postno 7 today by ankur2061 indicates thatthe status has notbeen cooled.R easons are notapparentto
kkala,thinking thatstand ofpostno 3 is clear and helping for clarification ofthe truth.Im partiality is needed for this.
Ankur2061 is kindly requested for public explanation.
Briefresponse on technicalm atters by kkala,as said in postno 7,w illcom e later.

Posted 04 M arch 2013 -10:38 AM

ankur2061

As requested basis for assum ption of33,000 ptb in brine has notbeen provided.As m entioned in post#6 no assum ptions
have been m ade w hereas post#3 m akes an assum ption w hich cannotbe substantiated or has any basis.Thus the negative
feedback.

Posted 04 M arch 2013 -05:44 PM

kkala

ankur2061, on 04 Mar 2013 - 17:46, said

As requested basis for assum ption of33,000 ptb in brine has notbeen provided.As m entioned in post#6 no assum ptions
have been m ade w hereas post#3 m akes an assum ption w hich cannotbe substantiated or has any basis.Thus the negative
feedback.
kkala, on 26 Feb 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:
Probably som e data is m issing,as follow ing can indicate.
...............................................................................................................
Assum ed saltcontentin brine out:33000 ptb,figure m issing (red figures arbitrarily supposed for an exam ple).
................................................................................................................
3.2 O ne could m easure another quantity (e.g.saltcontentofcrude out)instead ofsaltcontentofbrine.
..................................................................................................................
3.4 Saltcontentof35636 ptb in brine w ould resultin "saltw ith crude out" 241600-6.667x35636 = 4015 lb/d, and saltcontent4015/0.1127 =
35625 ~ 35636 ptb in the w ater ofcrude out.This could close the saltbalance in theory,butsaltrem ovalefficiency from crude w ould be
(240000-4015)/240000 = 98.3 % ,w hich seem s too high.
kkala, on 26 Feb 2013 - 2:28 PM, said:
Postno 6 (by ankur2061)is noted,butletthe status be cooled before a briefresponse.M eanw hile itm ay w orth w hile looking into postno 3
(by kkala).View s can be ofcourse different,readers can judge and take the usefulpartofeach.

Im partialreading ofkkalas posts,especially ofthe points above,gives evidence thatargum entation by ankur2061 in postno
10 is groundless.N evertheless this is now subjectto judgm entofindependentreader.
Looking into specific responses needs patience,itis notso easy to trace the m ass balance problem .G eneric directions are of
little help,arithm etic application ofgiven data could really help,and postno 3 has tried for it.Fair criticism should have
studied the other view beforehand,or atleastasked for clarifications;and notbeen in hurry.
Arithm etic application requested from ankur2061 w ould help sim plify variables and probably go to the theoretical solution
ofabout35636 ptb ofsaltin brine (after adopting Kb=Kc,by naredrasony).O ne such solution has been already addressed in
postno 3,para 3.4,by kkala,expressing also skepticism .Com m ents on it,or on resulting high saltcontentin brine,w ould
have helped the query,contrary to politics and negative feedback.

Edited by kkala, 04 March 2013 - 06:29 PM.

Back to Student

M echanicalEnergy Balance
Started by G uest_W ereSheep_* ,14 O ct2014

0 replies
59 view s

14 O ct2014

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014

Single Stage Desalter Mass Balance - Student - Cheresources.com Community

Steam Reform ing O fN aptha M aterialBalance

Started by G uest_tum za_* ,26 Sep 2014

H ow To D raw Cuts In X lW ith D ifferentX Axis And Single Y Axis

Started by G uest_M ainak Sarkar_* ,15 Sep 2014

Calculate Length O fTubes (H eatAnd M ass Transfer)

Started by G uest_BluesG irl_* ,30 Sep 2014

2N d Stage D ischarge Scrubber Recycle

Started by G uest_M ohsin3689_* ,26 Sep 2014

HOT

Page 6 of 6

8 replies
256 view s

03 O ct2014

2 replies
174 view s

30 Sep 2014

0 replies
166 view s

30 Sep 2014

11 replies
264 view s

30 Sep 2014

Cheresources.com Com m unity G eneralChem icalEngineering Forum Student

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/17297-single-stage-desalter-mass-balance/

10/19/2014