CEC - Does My Job Qualify NOC 6221

CEC - Does my job qualify NOC 6221?
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Canada Immigration Forum > Immigration Topics > Canadian Experience Class > Topic: CEC - Does my job qualify NOC 6221?
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Topic: CEC - Does my job qualify NOC 6221? (Read 2551 times)
shivahn
Full Member
on: December 15, 2013, 02:25:36 am
Hi everyone,
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Category........: CEC
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
I just sent me CEC application to Sydney, NS. I have lived in Vancouver, BC Canada
since 2006, studied since 2006 to 2012 (working part time in F&B hotel while in
school) and then received a BBA degree, and has been working full time since
graduating.
I applied under NOC 6221 (technical sales specialists), but after sending my
application package yesterday I got worried reading about 6221 (technical sales
specialists) vs 6441 (sales and account representatives).
I am a sales rep (for BC territory) for medical laboratory company that collects
specimens and test/diagnose them, and then sends the results to life insurance
company's underwriters, and it is B2B, we sell our services to life insurance
companies and financial services agencies/brokerages.
This is what the reference letter from my employer that I sent:
---------------------------------To whom it may concern:
I am writing this reference letter at the request of XXX, who is applying for his
Permanent Residency in Canada.
XXX has been working as a Paramedical Sales Representative for XXX Company
since August 2012. Our company have served the life insurance industry as the
leader in risk assessment testing since 1972. Our service ranges from
paramedical/medical examinations, laboratory testing, attending physician
statements, motor vehicle reports, tele-underwriting, to inspection reports.
He is a full-time employee with $38,000 CAD annual salary plus performance pay with
auto allowance - and health, vision, and dental benefits. His main duties and
responsibilities are the following:
Promote services to existing clients and identifying and solicit potential clients
Assess and provide input to clients' needs and resources to tailor our range of
services
6/7/2015 11:36 AM
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Present as company speaker in industry and agency seminars to offer company

services and to provide Continuing Education credits for licensed life insurance agents
Executing marketing initiatives and sponsorships of approved events
Exhibiting and staffing company booth at industry trade shows
Manage and administer new and existing local/provincial accounts
Consult and troubleshoot with clients after sale to resolve problems and provide
ongoing support
Collaborate with other department and provide operational assistance when
necessary to maintain business continuity
Prepare and present reports daily, weekly, and monthly to the management team
XXX is a member of our professional staff and an important member to our team. I
am pleased to recommend him to continue his career in Canada. If you have any
questions related to his employment please do not hesitate to contact me.
Respectfully submitted,
XXX, PHR
Human Resources Generalist
---------------------------------I didn't mention it is a B2B, but it should be pretty obvious right? What do you guys
think? Will the officer that reviews my application declines this job as NOC 6221?
Thank you in advance!
Logged
shivahn
Re: CEC - Does my job qualify NOC 6221?
Full Member
Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 04:06:02 pm
Bump
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
Logged
iam_toby
VIP Member
You already applied, what does it matter now?

tell you what the VO who's gonna
look at your application will think.
I ain't no VO and therefore can't
Posts: 7120
Ratings: +258
6/7/2015 11:36 AM
3 of 8
HRSDC website also seems to be down, so can't even compare the two NOCs right
now.
Quote
The site you are trying to reach is currently unavailable.
We regret any inconvenience.
Please try our corporate site at www.servicecanada.gc.ca
Logged
>>
Online.
<-- Click "Good" under my name if I could help you

|> CEC Toolkit: HERE
||> Toolkit on Facebook: HERE
shivahn
Full Member
The job descriptions of both classes are almost the same actually, shame the website
is down.
Also, I wonder if they will also put some consideration to my Bachelor's degree I
obtained in BC, they did not ask for a copy of the degree and transcript, but I sent
them both copies anyways :/
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
Logged
iam_toby
VIP Member

Quote from: shivahn on December 15, 2013, 04:44:52 pm
The job descriptions of both classes are almost the same actually, shame the website is down.
Also, I wonder if they will also put some consideration to my Bachelor's degree I obtained in BC, they did not ask
for a copy of the degree and transcript, but I sent them both copies anyways :/
Posts: 7120
Ratings: +258
The decision will be based on your work experience and the duties you performed, not
your credentials, that's why they didn't ask for it.
So if the duties in your reference letter match both NOCs, it's you'd have to leave it
up to the VO to assess it and either reject
or accept the experience.
Logged
>>
Online.

6/7/2015 11:36 AM
4 of 8
shivahn
Full Member
I see, does that mean they don't consider Canadian post graduate education in my
application?
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
Logged
lpc19800
Champion Member

Quote from: shivahn on December 15, 2013, 07:27:57 pm
I see, does that mean they don't consider Canadian post graduate education in my application?
No - unless it's specifically tied to your noc code and even then I believe the
experience in that noc is more important.
Posts: 1212
Ratings: +27
Visa Office......:
CPP-O
NOC Code......: 1223
Job Offer........: Yes
App. Filed.......:
January 14 2013
AOR Received.:
February 24 2013
Med's Request:
November 13, 2013
Med's Done....:
December 5, 2013
Interview........:
Waived: RPRF
requested:
November 13, 2013
Passport Req..: Visa
exempt
VISA ISSUED...:
January 6, 2014
LANDED..........:
January 29, 2014
Logged
iam_toby
VIP Member

Quote from: lpc19800 on December 15, 2013, 07:31:35 pm
No - unless it's specifically tied to your noc code and even then I believe the experience in that noc is more
6/7/2015 11:36 AM
5 of 8
important.
Second that.
Posts: 7120
Ratings: +258
Logged
>>
Online.

shivahn
Full Member
Thank you for your input guys. Let's go back to the NOC, I'd like to get some opinions
if my duties in the reference letter matches the NOC duties.
Does my job match:
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
NOC 6221
Technical sales specialists (wholesale trade) perform some or all of the
following duties:
Promote sales to existing clients
Identify and solicit potential clients
Assess clients' needs and resources and recommend the appropriate goods or
services
Provide input into product design where goods or services must be tailored to suit
clients' needs
Develop reports and proposals as part of sales presentation to illustrate benefits
from use of good or service
Estimate costs of installing and maintaining equipment or service
Prepare and administer sales contracts
Consult with clients after sale to resolve problems and to provide ongoing support
Troubleshoot technical problems related to equipment
May train customers' staff in the operation and maintenance of equipment
May conduct sales transactions through Internet-based electronic commerce
May supervise the activities of other technical staff and sales specialists.
Technical sales specialists usually specialize in a particular line of goods or services.
OR
NOC 6411
Sales representatives, wholesale trade (non-technical), perform some or all
of the following duties:
Promote sales to existing clients
Identify and solicit potential clients
Provide clients with presentations on the benefits and uses of goods or services
Estimate or quote prices, credit or contract terms, warranties and delivery dates
Prepare or oversee preparation of sales or other contracts
Consult with clients after sale or signed contracts to resolve problems and to
provide ongoing support
Review and adapt to information regarding product innovations, competitors and
market conditions
Represent companies that export and import products or services to and from
foreign countries
May conduct sales transactions through Internet-based electronic commerce
May supervise the activities of other sales representatives.
6/7/2015 11:36 AM
6 of 8
Seems so similar to me, can't figure out the difference, it's probably B2B or B2C?
Logged
R0ger
Full Member
To me, the difference between 6221 and 6411 seems quite clear. Both are sales
specialists, but one is technical (i.e. dealing with some kind of hardware or software),
while the other non-technical.
Based on the reference provided ...
Posts: 43
Ratings: +2
Quote
His main duties and responsibilities are the following:
Promote services to existing clients and identifying and solicit potential clients
Assess and provide input to clients' needs and resources to tailor our range of services
Present as company speaker in industry and agency seminars to offer company services and to provide
Continuing Education credits for licensed life insurance agents
Executing marketing initiatives and sponsorships of approved events
Exhibiting and staffing company booth at industry trade shows
Manage and administer new and existing local/provincial accounts
Consult and troubleshoot with clients after sale to resolve problems and provide ongoing support
Collaborate with other department and provide operational assistance when necessary to maintain business
continuity
Prepare and present reports daily, weekly, and monthly to the management team
... it seems quite evident that this is not technical. I don't see any duties mentioned
here that could be construed as belonging to technical sales.
Logged
shivahn
Full Member

Quote from: R0ger on December 15, 2013, 10:58:30 pm
To me, the difference between 6221 and 6411 seems quite clear. Both are sales specialists, but one is technical
(i.e. dealing with some kind of hardware or software), while the other non-technical.
Based on the reference provided ...
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
... it seems quite evident that this is not technical. I don't see any duties mentioned here that could be construed
as belonging to technical sales.
Hmm.. that is pretty depressing to hear. I do train life insurance agents on the
underwriting process that gives the CE credits for maintaining their license though, I
present a comprehensive medical testing in specimens we test in our lab. Isn't that
technical? However the reference letter did not elaborate on that more...
The app has not arrived yet, can I call Canada Post and get it back and ask my HR to
write the letter on more detail?
Logged
scylla
VIP Member
Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 07:07:49 am
Posts: 23070
I agree with Roger - your job is non-technical. You don't sell any equipment (unless
6/7/2015 11:36 AM
7 of 8
Ratings: +580
Category........: FAM
Visa Office......:
Buffalo
App. Filed.......:
28-05-2010
AOR Received.:
19-08-2010
File Transfer...:
28-06-2010
Passport Req..:
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...:
05-10-2010
LANDED..........:
05-10-2010
that was also missing from your job description). Adding the training responsibilities
doesn't make a different in how I see your job. You're still NOC 6411. The training you
provide is specialized - not technical.
Logged
shivahn
Full Member
Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 07:39:41 am
Wow... I guess I have to apply through BC PNP eh? I read that they will take
consideration of my recent graduation and my potential progress to the NOC 0 & A
positions in the future.
Well, I forgot to translate my birth certificate to English anyways so they will return
my application to me.
Posts: 35
Ratings: +1
Visa Office......:
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......: 6221
App. Filed.......:
03/03/2014
AOR Received.:
24/03/2014
Med's Done....:
15-07-2014
Passport Req..:
13-11-2014
VISA ISSUED...:
05-12-2014
LANDED..........:
06-12-2014
What a sad day for me

Thank you for the input.
Logged
jes_ON
VIP Member
Posts: 6249
Ratings: +240
Visa Office......: New
York
App. Filed.......:
06-May-2010
AOR Received.:
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...:
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..:
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...:
12-Jul-2011
(received
25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........:
03-Sep-2011
shivahn, I believe that 6221 is the correct NOC. However, I agree with some of the
comments that the letter could have been more specific about exactly what product
line(s) you are responsible for selling (not just the company overall, although that is
important too), and that there is always the possibility that the VO sees it differently.
I wouldn't give up, tho. Go ahead and get your birth certificate translated - if your
application is not returned to you, you can add it after you get the AOR, or if you plan
to re-apply, you'll need it anyway. If your application IS returned before the AOR,
then you have a chance to strengthen the letter.
And if you are eligible for the PNP program, it's good to have options, you can always
apply to both -
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