S. HRG.

1111023

HEARING TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON S. 3102,

THE RURAL ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM ACT

HEARING
BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY, SCIENCE AND

TECHNOLOGY
OF THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION

JUNE 17, 2010

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

(
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66271 PDF

2011

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SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

MICHAEL BENNET, Utah, Chairman
KENT CONRAD, North Dakota
JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
PAT ROBERTS, Kansas
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
JOHN CORNYN,Texas

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas, Chairman
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont
SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia
TOM HARKIN, Iowa
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
KENT CONRAD, North Dakota
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi
MAX BAUCUS, Montana
MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
PAT ROBERTS, Kansas
E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska
MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa
ROBERT CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania
JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MICHAEL BENNET, Colorado
KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
ROBERT HOLIFIELD, Majority Staff Director
JESSICA L. WILLIAMS, Chief Clerk
MARTHA SCOTT POINDEXTER, Minority Staff Director
ANNE C. HAZLETT, Minority Chief Counsel

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CONTENTS
Page

HEARING(S):
Hearing to Receive Testimony on S. 3102, The Rural Energy Savings Program
Act .........................................................................................................................

Thursday, June 17, 2010

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS
Lincoln, Hon. Blanche L., U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas, Chairman, Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry ................................
Bennet, Hon. Michael F., U.S. Senator from the State of Colorado, Chairman,
Subcommittee on Energy, Science, and Technology ..........................................
Lugar, Hon. Richard G., U.S. Senator from the State of Indiana .......................

9
1
3

Panel I
Merkley, Hon. Jeff, U.S. Senator from the State of Oregon ................................

Panel II
Elgohary, Nivin, Acting Assistant Administrator, Rural Development Rural
Utility Service Electric Program, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Washington, DC .............................................................................................................

Panel III
Singer, Kent, Executive Director, Colorado Rural Electric Association, Denver,
CO ..........................................................................................................................
Hanesworth, William, Vice President and General Manager, Air Conditioning
Division, Rheem Manufacturing Company, Fort Smith, AR ............................

11
13

APPENDIX
PREPARED STATEMENTS:
Elgohary, Nivin .................................................................................................
Hanesworth, William .......................................................................................
Singer, Kent ......................................................................................................

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HEARING TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON S. 3102,

THE RURAL ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM ACT
Thursday, June 17, 2010

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY, SCIENCE, AND TECHNOLOGY,
COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY,
Washington, DC
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:31 a.m., in Room
328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Michael Bennet, Chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.
Present or submitting a statement: Senators Bennet, Lincoln (ex
officio), and Lugar.
STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL F. BENNET, U.S. SENATOR
FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY, SCIENCE, AND TECHNOLOGY

Senator BENNET. Good morning and welcome to this hearing of

the Senate Agriculture Committees Subcommittee on Energy,
Science, and Technology. Hello, Senator Merkley. Thank you for
joining me here today so we can hear testimony on S. 3102, the
Rural Energy Savings Program Act.
Today, we have the privilege of hearing testimony from Senator
Jeff Merkley, of Oregon; Nivin Elgohary, the Acting Assistant Administrator of Rural Developments Electric Program at USDA. I
am very pleased that Kent Singer is here today, the Executive Director of the Colorado Rural Electric Association, and William
Hanesworth, Vice President and General Manager of the Rheem
Air Conditioning Division, who is here from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
I am going to make a short opening statement on todays hearing
and then I will recognize other Senators as they arrive to make a
statement in the order in which they arrive.
In my home State of Colorado, there is tremendous enthusiasm
surrounding the push toward what we call the new clean energy
economy. We have seen the clean energy economy take root in
areas all across our State, in rural and urban communities alike.
But with clean energy projects cropping up all across the State,
people in rural Colorado are wondering what they can do to bring
the clean energy economy a little closer to home. They are wondering what role small towns can play in making energy more affordable to help usher in an energy independent future.
It is my view that the right way to transform our energy economy is one in which we all share in the economic benefits. One way
we can help rural America in particular harness these economic
benefits is to rethink not only how we produce our energy, but how
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2
we can make better more efficient use of that energy in our rural
communities. Energy efficiency is the low-hanging fruit in the drive
to reduce our overall energy consumption and diversify the kinds
of energy sources we use.
As we are likely to hear today, homes in rural areas tend to be
older and less energy efficient. As a result, working families in
rural America tend to spend a larger proportion of their income on
energy and utility costs than families in urban areas. So simple efficiency upgrades can help lower energy costs and help ease the
burden on already tight family budgets. Yet up-front costs sometimesoften put these improvements out of reach for families
struggling to make ends meet.
The bipartisan bill before us this morning provides a common
sense solution to this very pervasive problem in rural America. Our
purpose is to create new jobs for rural Americans, to save families
money and help the environment, a win-win-win. By overcoming
the high up-front costs of energy efficiency improvements, this bill
puts simple energy efficiency improvements within reach for families all across rural America. That is something we can all get behind, as Republicans and Democrats, and in a time when partisan
gridlock prevents a lot from getting done, this bill offers an opportunity for both parties to work together to get the job done for the
American people.
The Rural Energy Savings Program Act authorizes $4.9 billion in
lending authority through USDAs Rural Utilities Service. I want
to emphasize here that this is a fiscally responsible way to solve
a very real problem for families in rural America because the resources are distributed through loans, not grants. The American
taxpayer will be paid back for every dime put into these innovative
energy efficiency loans.
Once the bill is passed into law, and I hope todays hearing
marks another step forward in that process, a rural cooperative
would apply to RUS to borrow money to fund these local energy efficiency programs. A no-interest loan is then given to the cooperative, which they in turn lend to rural homeowners and small businesses. The homeowners and small businesses use the money to
help cover the up-front costs of energy efficiency improvements.
These costs are paid back to the co-op over a ten-year time period
as an addition onto that homeowners or small businesss monthly
electric utility bill. Those additional costs to the homeowners and
small businesses will be substantially offset by the cost savings
stemming from the installed energy efficiency improvements.
This bill will help rural economies recover by creating thousands
of good paying jobs in my home State of Colorado and across the
country. These jobs serve several important public purposes. They
save families money and they make us more secure by supporting
our energy independence and reducing harmful pollution. These
are jobs that will be created right here in America, and they cant
be shipped overseas.
The Rural Energy Savings Program is a common sense, bipartisan bill supported by a broad coalition of partners, and I look forward to having todays hearing and subsequently getting it passed
into law.

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In my home State, the bill has the support of the Colorado Rural
Electric Association, the Rocky Mountain Farmers Union, and Environment Colorado, a diverse coalition that is working toward a
new approach to an old problem. I thank them for their support
and my colleagues for their leadership. Working together, I am confident we can help pass this bill into law, and in doing so, help ensure that we move forward into the new energy economy and that
rural America is not left behind.
With that, Senator Lugar, would you like to make a statement?
Thank you for being here.
STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD G. LUGAR, U.S. SENATOR
FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA

Senator LUGAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this important legislation. I applaud you for
holding this hearing today. I would like to extend a warm welcome
to all of our guests this morning, but in particular, I would like to
thank and recognize Senator Merkley, for his leadership on S.
3102, the Rural Energy Savings Program Act. As an original cosponsor, I enjoyed working with him and others on this legislation.
I believe it provides a positive way forward for energy efficiency for
rural America.
More than 42 million Americans live in rural communities and
many of these Americans reside in homes that are significantly
more inefficient than those typically found in urban communities.
In fact, USDA has found that rural households spend $200 to $400
more per year on their utility bills than comparable urban households. This utility bill disparity is significant given that rural
households earn $10,000 a year less than the national average,
meaning that fewer rural households are capable of affording the
up-front cost to increase the energy efficiency of their homes.
Accordingly, I am pleased to be an original cosponsor of the
Rural Energy Savings Program Act, which permits members of
Rural Electric Cooperatives to receive long-term low-interest loans
to improve the energy efficiency of their properties with no up-front
costs. These loans would be required to be repaid in ten years
through monies saved on utility bills. Not only will this legislation
lower utility bills for individual rural households and businesses,
it will also improve the ability of Rural Electric Cooperatives to
keep pace with increased consumer electricity demand.
The Rural Energy Savings Program Act is projected to create
nearly 26,000 jobs, spur retrofits in up to 1.6 million rural homes,
and save rural households hundreds of dollars a year after the
loans are repaid, and eliminate the need for new generating capacity to power 625,000 homes in coal-dependent areas.
Mr. Chairman, I recently introduced a bill referred to as the
Lugar Practical Energy and Climate Plan, which largely incorporates the Rural Energy Savings Program Act and other similar
policies that fix the major leaks in our energy system. My bill focuses on three areas of policy: Foreign oil reduction, energy efficiency, and power diversification. In writing my bill, I focused on
energy policies that are achievable, cost effective, and most importantly, that save American consumers and businesses money.

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Independent analysis has estimated that by the year 2030, my
plan would reduce foreign oil dependence by 40 percent, energy
consumption by 11 percent, average household electric bills by 15
percent, and greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent, or about 1.6
billion metric tons, the equivalent of taking more than 240 million
cars off our highways. The bill we are considering today is a very
considerable part of that program.
I look forward to todays hearing testimony on the Rural Energy
Savings Program, and again, I thank the Chair for holding this
very timely hearing.
Senator BENNET. Thank you, Senator Lugar, and thank you for
your statement. Thank you for being here.
I would also like to extend a warm welcome to our colleague,
Senator Merkley. Thank you for your leadership, and we look forward to hearing from you as the lead sponsor of S. 3102. We are
glad you are here. I am delighted that you introduced the bill and
that you are providing testimony today. Senator Merkley?
STATEMENT OF HON. JEFF MERKLEY, U.S. SENATOR FROM
THE STATE OF OREGON

Senator MERKLEY. Good morning and thank you very much, Mr.
Chairman and Senator Lugar. It is terrific to have both of you as
original cosponsors of this bill. I also want to thank Senator Graham and Senator Shaheen, who were the other original cosponsors,
and other members of the Agriculture Committee who are among
the cosponsors, Senator Lincoln, Senator Brown, Senator Harkin,
Senator Klobuchar, and Senator Stabenow.
This bill is designed for a simple but important purpose: To provide a cost-effective way to help rural residents and rural businesses participate in the clean energy economy by helping them invest in energy efficiency renovations for homes and buildings.
We all talk today about clean energy. As members of this committee are aware, energy efficiency is both the cleanest form of energy and the cheapest form of energy. That is a nice combination
and a real contrast as we look at the challenges that we are seeing
in the Gulf today.
In the current dire straits that our economy is in, energy efficiency is also a major opportunity for job creation. Since the recession began, we have lost 3.7 million jobs in manufacturing and construction. One in five construction workers is out of work. Energy
efficiency renovation creates jobs in both of these sectors. It is estimated by some to be the most effective strategy for creating jobs
per dollar expended by the Federal Government. Buildings use 40
percent of our energy, and so they must be a central focus for making progress on energy efficiency.
Energy efficiency renovations for buildings help create jobs for
small businesses. More than 90 percent of construction firms employ fewer than 20 people. More than 60 percent of the manufacturers that create materials and equipment for energy renovations
employ fewer than 20 people. And as the Chair pointed out in his
remarks, these are jobs that cannot be sent overseas. These are
jobs created here in America.
There are two important aspects of this bills approach to energy
efficiency, its rural focus and its financing strategy. First, in many

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parts of our country and certainly in Oregon, our rural areas have
been the hardest hit by the recession. In Oregon, many of these
communities are forest-based communities, and with the collapse of
the housing market, timber prices are at an all-time low and unemployment is at an all-time high. Families need jobs and they need
help with their energy bills.
Second, Rural Electric Cooperatives often have higher costs of
doing business. During the New Deal, the cooperatives were formed
specifically because the cost of connecting rural customers spread
out over very long distances meant that private utilities werent
willing to provide the service. While those Rural Cooperatives still
have the fewest customers per mile of distribution line, in even a
State like Oregon, where we have access to low-cost hydropower,
that means higher costs and higher electric rates for many rural
residents and businesses.
The financing strategy for this bill is important because it helps
families and businesses cover the up-front costs of renovations. You
can imagine that it is very difficult to consider buying a whole set
of, say, double-paned vinyl windows. But when you realize the energy savings on your electric bill or on your heating bill are going
to be greater than the costs of the loan that you are getting to do
it, then it becomes, well, this is a win-win in all respects.
Our scarce Federal dollars go even further with financing than
with grants or rebates because the government does get repaid, a
critical element as we wrestle with the deficit. For financing programs, we only need to appropriate funds for the anticipated losses.
In the case of the Rural Energy Savings Program, by appropriating
$775 million, we can fund a lending volume of $4.9 billion.
In the case of setting up financing through co-op utilities, there
is an even greater benefit because they can offer the on-bill financing. It makes it very convenient for customers to repay, very low
servicing overhead.
That is the core concept, helping rural co-ops offer low-cost loans
to customers which they can repay right on their utility bills. We
do this by building off existing programs at the Rural Utilities
Service, which already makes loans to rural electric co-ops. The bill
proposes to have RUS make zero-interest loans to co-ops and then
allow those co-ops to finance energy efficiency renovations at an interest rate of three percent.
In addition, the bill offers jump start grants to help co-ops launch
or expand energy efficiency programs. It also includes programs for
training and for technical assistance, as well as for measurement
and verification of energy efficiency renovation work to make sure
that the work is high quality and it is delivering the savings the
rural customers are counting on.
In closing, this is a win-win-win for our rural communities, creates jobs, helps people reduce their energy bills, and, of course, it
improves environmental impacts of electricity generation.
Thank you for your cosponsorships. Thank you for the committees interest. It is a pleasure to be here today.
Senator BENNET. Thank you, Senator Merkley.
Senator Lugar, do you have any comments?
Senator LUGAR. Mr. Chairman, let me just ask, and this is much
more of a procedural question, obviously, all three of us are strong-

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ly in favor of this piece of legislation, so we do not have a great
number of questions to ask each other except how this might proceed. I am just curious as to whether you know the will of the
Chairman as to whether she plans to have a business meeting in
which this might be considered.
Secondly, if such a meeting were to occur, and I presume a majority of members would vote in favor of the legislation, what its
prospects may be on the floor, whether there is a reasonable chance
of unanimous consent passage in which members are polled by telephone as opposed to floor activity, which is the normal course, I
think, for many bills now that are not monumental in character,
given the difficulties on the floor. Do you have any
Senator BENNET. Chairman Lincoln will be here later this morning, so I will ask her when she arrives. I dont know, Senator
Merkley, whether you have gotso we will figure that out today.
Thank you.
Senator LUGAR. Thank you.
Senator BENNET. Thank you.
Senator MERKLEY. Thank you very much.
Senator BENNET. Thank you for being here. That concludes our
first panel. Thank you again to Senator Merkley for joining us here
today.
We will now hear from Nivin ElgoharyI have been practicing
this all night long
[Laughter.]
Senator BENNET. Elgohary, and I will say that today is her
birthday.
[Applause.]
Senator BENNET. I didnt need to practice that. Happy birthday.
She is the Acting Assistant Administrator with the USDA Rural
Development Electric Program. She has been Acting Assistant Administrator for the Electric Program since January 2009. Ms.
Elgohary is responsible for directing and coordinating all activities
pertaining to the Rural Electric loan and grant programs. Ms.
Elgoharys tenure with the USDA began in 1999 as a loan specialist with the Power Supply Division of the USDA Rural Development Electric Program. Her experience also includes time in the
Office of the Program Advisor for the USDA Rural Development
Telecommunications Program.
Thank you for joining us today. I look forward to hearing your
testimony and asking some questions. You have got about five minutes to deliver your remarks, and please go ahead.
STATEMENT OF NIVIN ELGOHARY, ACTING ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, RURAL DEVELOPMENT RURAL UTILITY SERVICE
ELECTRIC PROGRAM, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Ms. ELGOHARY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for the
birthday wish. Also, thank you, members of the committee, for inviting me to discuss energy efficiency solutions to the U.S. Department of Agriculture Rural Development Rural Utility Service Electric Program.
The Rural Utility Service, or RUS, Electric Program is the successor to the Rural Electrification Administration established in
1935. Today, RUS has over 650 borrowers with an outstanding

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portfolio of $42 billion and a delinquency rate of less than one-half
of one percent. Forty-two-point-seven percent of our borrowers
serve at least one poverty county, and 77 percent serve at least one
out-migration county in the United States. Our borrowers provide
electric service to about 17 percent of the poverty counties in the
U.S. and 39 percent of the out-migration counties.
RUS is authorized to provide loans for construction and operation
of generating plants and electric transmission and distribution
lines. RUS is also authorized to provide loans to fund, furnish, and
improve electric service, including demand-side management and
energy conservation. RUS is also authorized to defer borrower principal and interest payments on RUS direct debt as compared to the
Federal financing debt which is guaranteed by RUS.
The Energy Resource Conservation Program allows our borrowers to defer principal payments and reamortize the deferment
over seven years. The borrowers, in turn, may use these
deferments to make funds available for energy efficiency and conservation measures. The first ERC agreement was signed with the
borrower in 1981. To date, we have 43 agreements with a total of
$64 million in deferments. Although the ERC Program has been
available for approximately 30 years, the loans for eligible
deferments are declining. Only RUS direct loans may be deferred.
RUS has not received direct funding appropriated since 2007.
Recently, Section 6101 of the 2008 farm bill amended Sections 2
and 4 of the Act to explicitly authorize loans to borrowers for energy efficiency. This amendment codified a longstanding USDA policy. We are currently working on regulation to implement this farm
bill provision.
S. 3102 is an energy savings loan program for rural areas. It provides $4.9 billion in loan program at a cost of $755 million. These
funds would be available for five years or until the funds are fully
obligated. S. 3102 also includes grants, identified as a jump start
grant, for each loan, not to exceed four percent of the loan amount.
If enacted, eligible applicants would be able to borrow the funds
from RUS and re-lend these funds to their consumers for energy
efficiency measures. The grant funds may be used to defray the
costs of implement energy efficiency re-lending programs. The eligible applicant will submit to RUS an energy efficiency plan and request for a loan. RUS will then approve the loan request upon receipt and review the applicants plan along with any existing application requirements and lending policies. Once the loan is approved, the borrower will receive a zero-interest loan for up to ten
years. The borrower will use the loan proceeds to provide low-interest loans to their members for energy efficiency measures.
The consumers loan may carry an interest rate of no higher than
three percent. The consumers energy savings as a result of the energy efficiency measures will be reflected on the electricity bill. The
savings will be used to pay back the energy efficiency measures
over a ten-year period.
The cost of this Rural Energy Savings Loan Program as suggested in S. 3102 is $993 million. The cost includes $755 million
as the cost of the direct loan program and an additional $238 million for grants, technical assistance, administrative expenses for
RUS to implement this program.

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Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity to discuss
RUS energy efficiency efforts and to provide expert testimony on S.
3102. I would be glad to answer any questions the members of the
subcommittee may have.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Elgohary can be found on page
22 in the appendix.]
Senator BENNET. Thank you very much for your testimony. I just
have a couple of questions.
Do you have a sensecan you say yet whether the administration supports. S. 3102?
Ms. ELGOHARY. At this current time, the administration does not
have a position on S. 3102.
Senator BENNET. Do you know when the USDA is likely to be
able to have a position on the bill?
Ms. ELGOHARY. I am not aware.
Senator BENNET. Okay. Senator Lugar, do you have any questions?
Senator LUGAR. Mr. Chairman, I tried to follow carefully your description of authorization and appropriation. I gather that even
though the administration has not taken a position, nor has the
Secretary of Agriculture, that the money that is envisioned in S.
3102 is available, is that correct? In other words, if, in fact, the administration decided this was a great idea and the Secretary was
directed to proceed, are the steps in place now in which the money
has been authorized and appropriated so that action can be taken
in a timely way?
Ms. ELGOHARY. RUS is authorized to do energy efficiency and we
could do it out of our existing appropriations. However, it would
not be at the same cost that is projected in S. 3102. S. 3102 identifies a zero-interest loan to the borrower. Our borrowers currently
take loan funds out of our existing FFB portfolio. The long-term interest rate there is about 4.3 percent for a 30-year loan.
Senator LUGAR. Granted, that is the current situation. I suppose
my question is, does the passage of this legislation then change
those circumstances, at least for the loans that are envisioned
under the legislation, leaving aside what the current predicament
may be or the past ideas. Do you have a response to that?
Ms. ELGOHARY. We can
Senator LUGAR. In other words, are we stuck at the old rates,
notwithstanding the fact this is supposed to be a zero-loan situation.
Ms. ELGOHARY. We will get back to you with an answer to that
question.
Senator LUGAR. Well, I would appreciate it, because that is material in terms of the timeliness of this. Let us say that we have the
good fortune that our Chairman is persuasive with the President
and the President says, let us get on with this, that it makes a lot
of sense in terms of energy efficiency in the country. But the President then is stymied. He says, what is going on out there at
USDA? So I just want to make sure what is going on at USDA,
kind of grease the skids. That may be the wrong terminology, but
prepare the way for successful action on this bill.
Ms. ELGOHARY. I can share some process, maybe, that might help
to answer the question. RUS currently, as part of our normal pro-

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cedures in funding, we find two findings in any loan application,
whether it be for energy efficiency, plan improvements or Consumer Connects. There is a financial finding and there is an engineering finding. But prior to those findings being made, we require
that our borrowers submit to us long-range plans, loan forecasting
requirements, and within those studies that they submit to us, energy efficiency is a component of the product of that study.
Senator LUGAR. Is the study now for the co-op as opposed to the
individual rural borrower? I am just thinking of a farmer and then
his or her home who wanted to make one of these loans. Is that
person required to make this kind of study, or is
Ms. ELGOHARY. No, no, no, no.
Senator LUGAR. No?
Ms. ELGOHARY. No. The loans would be made to the electric coop and then the electric co-op, in turn, would market the energy
efficiency efforts with their consumers, whether it be the farmer or
a local business or a homeowner. That consumer, a member of the
electric cooperative, would make a loan with the co-op over a certain period of time and pay that loan back through their energy
bill. So RUS would be making the loan to the electric utility.
Senator LUGAR. Fine. Thank you. And you are going to get back
to us now as to whether things are underway in the event the
President says yes and USDA says yes, quite apart from our saying
yes to move this situation.
Ms. ELGOHARY. Correct.
Senator LUGAR. Thank you.
Senator BENNET. I would like to echo Senator Lugars point there
and also say that if there are other suggestions the administration
has for the bill, we would like to hear those, as well. I think that
the reason it is such an appealing piece of legislation for a lot of
us is, first, that it will allow much more retrofitting to be done in
rural areas, but also the on-bill financing component of it is not
available today and I think would make a big difference to our
communities and to our families. So if you could get back to us
with suggestions on the legislation, we are all ears.
Ms. ELGOHARY. Okay.
Senator BENNET. Thank you very much for being with us today.
Thank you for your testimony, and we appreciate your taking the
time. That concludes our second panel.
We are delighted to be joined today by Chairman Lincoln, and
I am going to turn the microphone over to her for some comments
on the bill.
STATEMENT OF HON. BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, U.S. SENATOR
FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE
ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

Chairman LINCOLN. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly

appreciate all of your hard work and your willingness to hold this
very important hearing on the Rural Star bill. I do think it is a key
proposal that will help us immensely in creating jobs and increasing energy conservation.
I know on the Energy Committee, we found that in our bipartisan energy bill we passed there that the conservation measures
actually did save as much or more than any of the renewable ener-

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gies we produced and initiated. And so conservation is such a critical part of the overall equation.
But it does all of those things, all the while lowering utility bills
for rural families. And having lived out on that rural county road
myself, I know how important that is to the families, the hardworking families that live out there.
So creating this rural retrofit program is a partnership, which I
am all about partnerships with the rural co-ops and will only enhance its success as a partnership, I think, and I am very grateful
to you for that.
I am very proud to be a cosponsor of this Rural Star legislation
that will help put Arkansans back to work and help consumers
save on their energy costs, and I think, ultimately, those really do
meet so many of the goals and aspirations we have in moving ourselves from an old energy economy to a new energy economy, obviously to not only improve in terms of our conservation and environment, but also in terms of consumers and what we can do for them.
There is a company with a demonstrated record of success in
working with our co-ops as well as employing Arkansans and it is
one of our good corporate citizens in Arkansas, Rheem. I am
pleased that they are represented with a witness here today.
Rheem employs about 1,300 individuals at its Fort Smith, Arkansas, facility and the head of their Air Conditioning Division in Fort
Smith is Bill Hanesworth, who is here on their behalf today.
Mr. Hanesworth, I did want to welcome and make sure I gave
him a good Arkansas welcome so he felt at home here at the Agriculture Committee and before your subcommittee, Mr. Chairman,
and I look forward to his testimony and all of the other testimony
here. But just to say that Rheem has been a wonderful corporate
citizen in our State, not only in terms of employing, but also in
terms of looking at innovative ways to work with both the electric
co-ops and certainly in terms of energy efficiency in the manufacturing products that they produce.
So we are excited about all that and certainly excited about you
having this hearing and grateful to you for doing that today. So
thank you very much.
Senator BENNET. Thank you, Chairman Lincoln. And as you
know, but Mr. Hanesworth might not, my wife is from Marianna,
Arkansas, so there is a lot of Arkansas at the subcommittee today.
So we will now welcome the final panel, Kent Singer, Executive
Director of the Colorado Rural Electric Association, and William
Hanesworth, Vice President and General Manager of Rheem Air
Conditioning Division, Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Kent Singer is the Executive Director of the Colorado Rural Electric Association. Previously, Kent was CREAs General Counsel
since 1996 and has operated a successful law practice representing
electric cooperatives in Colorado. In addition to representing
CREA, he has been the Corporate Counsel for Tri-State Generation
and Transmission Association, General Counsel for Holy Cross
Electric Association, and counsel for Western United Electric Supply Association.
Bill Hanesworth is Vice President and General Manager of
Rheem Manufacturing Companys Air Conditioning Division. He
has served in that position since 2007.

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Thank you boththank you both for traveling all the way from
your home States to be here today and for the important work that
you do.
Once again, we would like to keep the remarks to about five minutes, and Mr. Singer, why dont you go ahead and start.
STATEMENT OF KENT SINGER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
COLORADO RURAL ELECTRIC ASSOCIATION

Mr. SINGER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Senator Lugar. It is an honor to appear
before you this morning and I thank you for inviting me to provide
the views of the Colorado Electric Cooperatives on S. 3102, the
Rural Energy Savings Program Act.
CREA, the trade association that I represent, is a nonprofit
group that represents the interests of Colorados 22 electric distribution cooperatives as well as Tri-State Generation and Transmission Association. Tri-State is the power supplier for 18 of Colorados electric co-ops. The remaining four co-ops receive their power
supply from Xcel Energy in Colorado.
Colorados electric co-ops provide electric service to approximately 75 percent of the land area of Colorado and approximately
25 percent of all electricity consumers in Colorado. Colorados electric co-ops average about seven customers per mile of line and they
serve some of the most economically challenged communities in
Colorado. Many of our co-ops also serve territory that is some of
the most challenging in the United States in terms of the terrain
and the weather conditions.
Electric co-ops in Colorado and across the country have a
straightforward mission: To provide reliable electric service at the
lowest cost possible. Electric co-ops are nonprofit, member-owned
utilities, and they were created not to make a profit for shareholders, but to provide affordable and reliable electricity to their
member owners.
In that spirit, Colorados electric co-ops have for many years provided information and advice to their member owners to help them
manage their energy bills. This includes programs and incentives
for their member owners to use electricity in an efficient and cost
effective manner. These programs include rebates for energy efficiency appliances, time of day rates to encourage off-peak usage,
and in some cases, direct loans for energy efficiency improvements.
Tri-State, the power supplier for 18 of our co-ops, has an Energy
Efficiency Credits Program which provides cash rebates for efficient
lighting, heating, and cooling systems, as well as for high-efficiency
motors. This program has reduced overall demand in Colorado by
75 megawatts and waved approximately 80,000 megawatt hours of
energy since its inception.
CREA believes that S. 3102, the Rural Energy Savings Program
Act, is another tool that co-ops can use to enable their customers
to maximize energy efficiency. The bill authorizes an on-bill financing program that allows co-op members to borrow money from the
co-op for energy efficiency improvements at their homes and businesses and to pay back those loans through their monthly electric
bills.

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The program is a model of simplicity. Co-ops would be authorized
to borrow no-interest funds from the RUS and in turn make lowinterest loans, not to exceed three percent, to their residential or
business consumers for the sole purpose of improving the energy efficiencies of those residences or businesses. No loan funds would be
approved until an energy audit is performed by the co-op, an application for funds is approved by the RUS, and the project is completed in accordance with the plans contained in the application.
The Act requires that energy efficiency loans have a payback period of no more than ten years. This means that the savings to customers related to the energy efficiency improvement projects must
be more than the amount of the loan and that customers will be
able to repay the loan from those monthly savings on their energy
bill. It also means that if the projects are not cost effective within
a ten-year period, they will not be funded, and such a limitation,
we believe, will put pressure on some energy efficiency technologies
to bring costs down.
The program is designed also to minimize the impact on the Federal budget because it is primarily a loan program, not a grant program, and it requires repayment of loans to the Federal Government. The program does have a small grant component that enables co-ops to receive up to four percent of the loan amount in
order to offset the up-front costs of initiating the program.
The program will also use the existing infrastructure at the RUS
and the RUS loan protocols to evaluate loan applications, obligate
funds, and advance them to the co-ops. The co-ops already have the
billing capabilities and the consumer relationships that will enable
them to deliver and administer the loans to their consumers.
The loan funds will not cover the entire cost of the program, however, because individual co-ops will incur certain costs to administer the program. The program is voluntary and individual co-ops
will have to determine whether there is a need in their community
that could be addressed with funds from the program.
CREA supports the bill because we believe there are co-op members in Colorado, as the Chairman has observed, that would benefit
from energy efficiency improvements on their homes and who cannot afford to make the initial up-front investment in these improvements. The average initial costs of energy efficiency upgrades has
deterred many co-op customers from making much-needed energy
efficiency improvements. By providing low-interest funds, the Act
would benefit rural Colorado by making homes and businesses
more comfortable and energy efficiency and it would also create
much-needed jobs in rural communities.
I thank you today for the opportunity to speak to you and I
would be glad to address any questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Singer can be found on page 36
in the appendix.]
Senator BENNET. Thank you, Mr. Singer. I do have a couple of
questions. I wanted to start where you ended, which is could you
share with the committee and the staff what kinds of energy efficiencies you think exist in our rural communities in Colorado and
what are the kinds of things that your customers would do if they
had access to this kind of on-bill financing?

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Mr. SINGER. Yes, Mr. Chairman. As to the first part of your question, as far as energy efficiencies and the co-op system generally,
you can really go from the first part of where energy is generated
at the power plants to the transmission lines to the distribution
system. So there are many sources of efficiencies along the entire
stream of producing power. Both the G&T and the distribution coops have many investments that they could make to improve efficiencies.
At the end of the line for the distribution customers, the ones
who pay the bill, I think in Colorado, our experience is that they
are very interested in trying to find ways to reduce their monthly
bill and our co-ops are fully engaged in promoting programs to help
them do that. That is a tradition in the co-op program, is for our
members, our managers, our directors, to find ways to help those
folks at the end of the line. We dont have a profit motive. We are
nonprofit entities. We are simply interested in providing reliable
service at a low cost.
So our co-ops, both the G&T and the distribution co-ops, have
programs in place today. We feel, though, that this would be a
more comprehensive program that would provide a pool of funds
and a process that would ramp up that effort. And in Colorado, I
believe there are many co-ops who are anxious to get underway
and try to benefit their customers at the end of the line.
Senator BENNET. Thank you for that, and I am going to go to Mr.
Hanesworth, so I am going to hold my other questions. I dont
know, Senator Lugar, whether you would like to wait or
Senator LUGAR. I will wait until he is finished.
Senator BENNET. Okay. Mr. Hanesworth.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM HANESWORTH, VICE PRESIDENT
AND GENERAL MANAGER, AIR CONDITIONING DIVISION,
RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY, FORT SMITH, ARKANSAS

Mr. HANESWORTH. Good morning, Chairman Bennet, Ranking

Member Thune, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for
the opportunity to speak about the Rural Energy Savings Program
Act. My name is Bill Hanesworth and I am Vice President and
General Manager of Rheem Manufacturing Company. Rheem is a
leading global producer of water heaters, air conditioners, furnaces,
pool heaters, and boilers, and from our headquarters in Atlanta, we
are proud to be a significant manufacturer and employer of thousands of people and market participant in the United States.
I lead our Air Conditioning Division, which is based in Fort
Smith, Arkansas, and I especially wish to acknowledge Chairman
Lincoln. We thank Senator Lincoln for her exceptional leadership,
work, and support of our ability to compete in a rural America.
The bill would really help the people who work in our plant and
similar jobs across the United States. The Fort Smith plant was
completed in 1970 and is the home for more than 1,300 employees
and many members of rural co-ops across Arkansas. It is where
Rheem designs its gas furnaces, advanced electronics, condensing
units, electric heat pumps. It is also where Rheem designs and
manufactures its residential and commercial heating and cooling
products.

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The important legislative proposal before us known as the Rural
Energy Savings Program Act would help support demand for the
work of our Fort Smith team and other facilities across the country, enabling our dedicated employees to continue to design and
build products to compete in a global marketplace.
Since our founding by the Rheem brothers in California in 1925,
we have provided good manufacturing, research, and development
and distribution jobs across this country. Rheem is an innovator
and consistently designs increased efficiency into its products. In
fact, Rheem invented the first tank water heater used in the
United States. As a result, we are very interested in legislation and
government programs which incentivize the reduction of energy
costs and increase the demand for energy efficiency products.
We believe the Rural Energy Savings Program Act, in particular,
is critically important because it lowers the cost of barriers for consumers to invest in energy efficient program solutions and to do so
in partnership with rural co-ops, which will only enhance the programs success.
Rheem is proud to have substantial experience working with coops to offer its water heaters, air conditioners, furnaces, and heat
pumps to the American public. Presently, we partner with nearly
300 co-ops across the country and we work hard to bring energy
efficient products to meet the demands of those customers.
One such product is a unique rust-proof water heater which we
appropriately call the Marathon. With a lifetime tank warranty, it
is a popular product among co-ops, because in rural America, the
water quality may not always be what would be optimal. The Rural
Energy Savings Program would enable consumers to realize significant lifetime savings by lowering their ongoing energy expenses
and by smoothing out the up-front cost of the kind of durable and
efficient water heaters which we design in Alabama and manufacture in Minnesota, the home State of Senator Klobuchar, and we
appreciate her support.
As you know, the availability of low-interest financing through
co-ops would allow homeowners and small businesses to more readily afford energy efficient products. Generally, consumers heating
and cooling and water hearing bills represent the majority of their
energy spend, which was mentioned earlier today. We at Rheem
take this seriously and consistently work to reduce energy costs for
the consumer.
Your constituents really need this bill. The economy has been especially hard on those, especially whose access to credit has been
substantially curtailed in recent years. Therefore, it is important
that the government find innovative public solutions and avenues
to keep people working and the money in their pockets.
This Act encourages and assists consumers to purchase better
products that will reduce their energy costs and improve their
quality of life. I commend this subcommittee for considering it
today. The legislation will benefit consumers in the program and
our country as a whole. The policy will improve our countrys carbon footprint. It will reduce the cost of operation for small businesses. It will enable consumers to save money and have access to
affordable credit. And it will support job creation, a critical point
in our economic recovery.

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In the words of Chairman Bennet, this bill would help rural
economies recover by creating thousands of good-paying jobs in Colorado and across the country. Additionally, cosponsor Senator
Lindsey Graham described the bill as a plan that will help consumers, particularly those in rural areas of the State and nation,
become more energy efficient and lower their electricity cost.
Picking up on Senator Grahams point, we at Rheem especially
are proud of the relationship with McCalls Distribution Company
in South Carolina, which represents the very constituency to whom
this legislation is directed. We could not agree more with Senators
Bennet and Graham and strongly encourage Congress to move forward to establish the Rural Energy Savings Program.
In closing, I would like to note the committee has been writing
agriculture policy for over 200 years. Throughout its history, members of this body have tackled critical energy and rural development issues. This is another such important initiative. We are
hopeful this bill can become law and provide energy conservation
incentives, economic growth, and savings to rural America.
Toward that end, we look forward to working with you and thank
you for the opportunity to speak with you today, and I welcome any
questions that you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hanesworth can be found on
page 31 in the appendix.]
Senator BENNET. Thank you. Thank you for your excellent testimony, both of you. You both came in at exactly five minutes, so we
appreciate that, I have to say.
[Laughter.]
Senator BENNET. I also want to say to Mr. Singer how much I
appreciate your characterization of this bill, as you did in your testimony, as a model of simplicity. I cant tell you what high praise
that is in this place, in particular, to hear those words.
You did mention in your testimony that there might be some increased administrative costs as a result of this, and I wonder
whether you have got some suggestions today about how we might
be able to help with that, or if anything occurs to you going forward, we certainly would like to hear that because we want to
make this as user friendly as possible.
Mr. SINGER. And I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. I dont have
any specific recommendations. I think the point I was trying to
make is that although the government is funding this program, or
would be if the Act passes, the co-ops still would have some skin
in the game.
Senator BENNET. Right.
Mr. SINGER. They have to make a commitment to this, and
whether that is by having some additional contract folks or others
to administer the program, there is some expense. They have a
commitment to it. And so I am just trying to make the point that
it is not just a free ride for the co-ops.
Senator BENNET. Right.
Mr. SINGER. They will have to invest in this, as well.
Senator BENNET. And it is voluntary, as well.
Mr. SINGER. That is correct. Yes.
Senator BENNET. A question for both of you to share with the
committee and with the staff. What kinds of changes and invest-

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ments would you expect typical rural homeowners to make if they
had the support of a loan like this? What are the things that they
wish they could do today but arent doing because they cant incur
the up-front expense? Either one. Mr. Hanesworth, would you like
to start?
Mr. HANESWORTH. Recently, especially in the last few years, one
of the biggest obstacles to having people upgrade their systems has
been the lack of affordable credit. When the credit market collapsed, it really changed the way people qualified for loans and
their ability to upgrade. In the last two or three years, people chose
to repair and fix, and repaired units that may be ten, 15 years old,
that arent very efficient, and they are continuing to do that because they cant get the funds.
Our experience over the last year with some of the policies that
the tax credits and things have spurred some of these systems. At
the end of the day, they have to keep them running. Again, these
are families who have been hurt specifically harder, I think, than
most of the economy because they are in manufacturing jobs, two
household incomes, and they are doing everything they can to get
by. I think this plan with low interest will allow them to do upgrades.
Mr. SINGER. And, Mr. Chairman, I would just add that in terms
of the funding for the program, there have been studies conducted.
There was a University of California study about a year ago that
identified certain barriers to investments in energy efficiency. It is
an excellent study, came out about a year ago. And one of them,
of course, is the access or the availability of up-front funds to do
the work, and that is what this bill goes to.
Another point I would like to make is that some of the energy
efficiency programs around the country have had limited success
because of the credit limitations that are put on some of the borrowers. I think this program has adequate flexibility to allow these
co-ops to determine which of their customers are able to repay
these loans, and they can do that by evaluating their payment history for their bills. So it is, I think, an easier program to apply for,
in many cases, for low-income folks in our service territory, in particular.
Senator BENNET. I think that is actually a very important point,
to. What this bill does is rely on the expertise of our rural co-ops
to establish those kinds of questions rather than setting the rules
ourselves. I think that is an important step forward.
I wonder, and then I will stop, whether either of you can give us
a sense of the kinds of savings that a family that is able to install
that new boiler or able to install that new HVAC system would be
able to realize as a consequence of this. I assume, Mr. Hanesworth,
that is part of how you market what you sell, is you say to people,
you are making an investment now, but it is going to pay off in
savings later.
Mr. HANESWORTH. Right, Senator. Well, obviously, it depends on
the consumer and how they apply the product and the age of the
product that they are changing out. But in a typical very high efficient system, they could save up to 40 percent on their heating and
cooling bill based on what they chose to put in. Again, a lot of it
has to do with the way they operate the system, the insulation,

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windows, and things in their house. But there are some significant
savings that go along with this, would more than probably offset
the monthly payment on an electric bill.
Mr. SINGER. I would just echo that that is one of the conditions
of the program, in fact, that the co-op identify that those savings
can be made. It is difficult to precisely quantify how much, but
hopefully, you are looking at in the magnitude of hundreds of dollars, which will enable folks to repay these loans and still be saving. So it is going to be a case-by-case analysis, but the bill is premised on the fact that those technologies are cost effective and the
loans wont be made unless they are.
Senator BENNET. Thank you.
Senator Lugar, I want to thank you for coming and staying. Do
you have questions for the panel?
Senator LUGAR. I would just like to follow through on your question, Mr. Chairman. Just as a practical matter, you have mentioned a water heater might be replaced and windows might be replaced. I want to get your view as to really, as a homeowner looks
at his or her home, do you have sort of a list of things that might
be looked at?
I ask it from this standpoint. A lot of people read generally about
energy savings but are not necessarily sophisticated enough to understand specifically what items in the house, or one by one, you
might take up. Would co-ops have, let us say, an inventory or a list
of suggestions for this?
What I fear is that even though the program might be out there,
unless there is considerable publicity about this and suggestions to
individual families as to how this might be important, still taking
on a loan or a responsibility, or getting involved with an analysis
of your light bills and so forth may be daunting to many persons
who may sort of remain back there as opposed to stepping forward.
What kind of literature or lists or what have you might be available?
Mr. SINGER. Senator, to your question, it is a great point. You
are exactly right. If there is not an adequate communication program by the co-op, then the program wont succeed. There has got
to be an adequate communication program. I think that is one of
the hallmarks of the co-op program, though, is that our utilities
have a unique relationship with our customers.
All our co-ops have webpages today. You can go on just about
any co-op webpage and it will list all of the things you can do to
save money on your energy bill. Similarly, I am sure that is a
methodology that would be used to advertise how this program
works. And, in fact, the bill requires that the co-op develop what
is the list of technologies, what are the steps you could take to reduce your energy costs. So I think the bill recognizes the point you
are making.
Mr. HANESWORTH. I might dovetail on that, also, Senator. We develop a lot of tools for consumers. One of those is when a consumer
is ready to make a decision on an air conditioning, heating system,
or water heater, we have programs that allow them to go in and
take information about their home and they can actually project
what their savings are. Some people cant overbuy and it helps
them really direct what they are capable of spending and dem-

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onstrates to them what they might save over the period of a lifetime.
So there are a lot of tools there that help them make decisions
and I am sure that the co-ops are using those tools to help those
consumers make good decisions about their purchase.
Senator LUGAR. Let me ask how much money a co-op might be
prepared to loan to a specific consumer. Let us say that a consumer
is really stimulated by all of this, so the consumer says, well, I am
going to fix simultaneously my air conditioning, my water heater,
my windows, the whole lot. And so this now is up to a sizeable
loan. The co-op determines that each one of these investment is
going to have an excellent return which meets the requirements of
the program, but is a measurement on the basis of the total income
of the consumer, the value of the property, or how do you determine the extent of the loan?
Mr. SINGER. I think that the analysis that we have done shows
typical loan amounts of perhaps $1,500 to $5,000 or $6,000 or
$7,000. I think what you are describing perhaps might exceed that,
if someone wanted to retrofit many systems in their home. I do
think the bill allows sufficient flexibility for a co-op to manage the
loan program in the way it sees fit. So I think there is a range that
would be typical. I suppose on a case-by-case basis, there might be
a higher amount loaned.
Senator LUGAR. But the co-op would make its judgment on the
basis of knowledge of this homeowner and potential net worth or
supposed ability to repay?
Mr. SINGER. And the audit that they would conduct to determine
which of those technologies is, in fact, cost effective. It may be that
not all of them are and they would tell the consumer, no, you cant
do that part of your project, but you can do these other parts. So
it is a relationship between the co-op and their customer.
Senator LUGAR. And I think as the hearing has displayed, there
really is no arbitrary limit on this, that this is really left to the
judgment of the co-op
Mr. SINGER. That is correct.
Senator LUGAR. as opposed to the language in the bill, which
is probably important, too, that arbitrarily it has not been cut off.
Mr. SINGER. Correct.
Senator LUGAR. Finally, I would just ask, what kind of reception
have you experienced either as a manufacturer of the material or
as a co-op up to this point with potential consumers? Is this something that has attracted their interest, or is this something that is
enthusiasm of members of the Senate and our witnesses today in
which we try to project this? I am not denigrating it. That may be
important, that somehow or other we become more vitalized in
America to save energy. But I am just curious what sort of possibilities you see out there now.
Mr. SINGER. From the co-op perspective, I think there is a great
amount of interest, I know in Colorado, with consumers in finding
ways to be more energy efficient, both from a pure cost standpoint
and from the standpoint that folks understand, I think these days,
what the implications are for having to build more power supply
to the environment. And many, many customers in Colorado want
to invest in these kinds of programs for both of those reasons.

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So I believe that they have shown a great interest in the past
in existing programs, and with this kind of a new program that I
think is going to be more widely available, I think that they will
take advantage of it very quickly.
Mr. HANESWORTH. And I would agree with that. I think the interest demonstrated by the tax incentives that were put out in the
last 18 to 24 months, we saw a significant shift to energy efficiency
equipment in our portfolio of products. Again, one of the limitations
was based on the ability to qualify for loans, so they chose to repair
versus replace.
The interest grows every year. In fact, as a manufacturer, and
most manufacturers are running incentive programs on their own
where they will pay up to $1,200 of their own money in rebates and
things to go on top of low interest and go on top of the tax incentives to generate high efficiency sales. So it is growing demand.
People are more and more aware. And clearly, it is the way people
want to move going forward.
Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much.
Senator BENNET. Thank you, Senator Lugar.
I have just one last question. We focused very much on savings
in this discussion and in the energy conservation. There is also the
real possibility that these improvements would actually enhance
the value of homes, as well, isnt there, in rural communities?
Mr. SINGER. Yes. I think that is clearly true, that if a consumer
who invests in one of these projects decides to sell their property
and they have got a well-insulated home that has the newest, most
efficient heating and cooling technologies, certainly you are correct.
That is going to be a selling point if they decide to move and sell
that property.
Senator BENNET. Well, I would like to thank all of the witnesses
on all of the panels. Thank you, Senator Lugar, for being here
today and for all your testimony before the committee and for
working together to bring real energy savings to rural Americans
nationwide.
I would also like to say a final thank you to Chairman Lincoln
and her staff for their assistance in putting this hearing together
today. It is a real testament to the support that this bill has that
Chairman Lincoln was here and we deeply appreciate her taking
the time to be here.
With that, the hearing of the Senate Agriculture Committees
Subcommittee on Energy, Science, and Technology is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:28 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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