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Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 20, 2010 at 9:15am
Post by Billiam Babble on Nov 20, 2010 at 9:15am
Okay these are untested and I'm mainly thinking of T&T 5 with a few nods towards T&T7.5
I know that there's more T&T solos than you can shake a shakey stick at, but my recent old rules
nostalgia-fest and solo-gamebooking has brought me back to Fighting Fantasy.
Although Fighting Fantasy gamebooks can be a little restrictive with regards to choices (there's
very little doubling back or visiting the same location twice) I like the intense description-rich
narrative style.
I certainly can't be the first to have suggested this, but the simpler FF books can be easily
adapted for a T&T delver.
I'm mainly thinking of low level character play (first to third level) Warriors mainly.
T&T in FF - Game Mechanics
Testing Your Luck
- An idea which much have been borrowed from T&T in the first place is simply replaced with a
L1SR with LUCK (may need to be L2SR if it's too easy in testing). Alternatively the player may
use an SR using Talent or Ability - if applicable - i.e. with bluffing guards, a player may choose
to use Charisma or a "Fast Talk" talent (or something similar). When the text isn't clear on
what's happening use LUCK instead.
Luck in FF is a very fluid. I wouldn't recommend reducing LUCK every time an SR is made (as
with Testing Luck in FF) but apply temporary bonuses and penalties when the text directs. It's up
to player whether or not they decide to incorporate this in their personal adds.
Skill bonuses and bonuses to "attack strength" can be added to personal adds.
Damage awarded in the text (traps, effects etc.)
If in a paragraph a reduction to Stamina is stated, simply deduct the amount from Constitution.
For simplicity sake all text-based-damage ignores armour reduction. (A player could fairly argue
that certain situations armour points may be used where damage is inertia- or puncture-based,
and is higher than 4, since most described damage is under this amount... perhaps)
Text based death Failure of a mission or just a wrong turn can equal instant death in FF. A word of warning to
players taking any campaign characters in.

Billiam
Babble
3rd Level
Troll

Healing
In some of the earlier books provisions heal 4 points of Stamina. Perhaps treat provisions as
magic potions which heal the same amount of CON up to starting level. In books without
provisions, or if provisions are ignored, players would be forgiven for taking with themselves a
couple of healing potions CON 1-6 points. Perhaps one potion for every level below four (I.e.
1st Level warrior carries 3 potions, a 2nd level warrior carries 2 and so on).
Note: Stamina can be higher at the start of an FF book (13-24) than an average 1st level
character (3-18 before modifiers and roll overs), so a little extra help wouldn't imbalance the
game too much.
Combat and Monster Ratings

The trick here is to sensibly convert Skill and Stamina into a Monster Rating.
Initially I thought of a simple formula like (Skill+Stamina x4)=MR. However, the Skill rating is
much more significant in winning an attack round. So I suggest (Skill x3 + Stamina)=MR
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much more significant in winning an attack round. So I suggest (Skill x3 + Stamina)=MR

Posts: 207
The orcs in Warlock of Firetop Mountain are fairly weedy when compared with other FF
Monsters. The first sleeping orc provides a nice example:
ORC Skill 6 Stamina 5
MR= 6x3 +5 = 23
Mind you with a tough Warrior, playing a gamebook like WofFM you might want to add 10 on
top of that.
Also from Warlock' is a Vampire:
VAMPIRE Skill 10 Stamina 10
MR=10x3 +10 = 40
Sometimes the text will provide special attack rules, sometimes this may involve a Luck Test
(SR), but often it is based upon a number of attack rounds fought, before a text lead situation
develops - i.e. a transformation or poison, or an opportunity to flee.
I rarely run from combat, but if you need to either use the standard T&T rules or make an Attack
but score no damage and if recieving damage - ignore protection from shields (maybe).
Multiple opponents - Some FF books tell you to "fight one monster at a time" - others can be
crueller. In the case of the latter it might be acceptable to sometimes combine multiple MRs, or
play "FF-T&T hybrid fighting" which would involve defending against a second or third
Monster but higher attack results in merely a defended parry (if that makes sense).
Magical effects and items. Use common sense with active treasures and items, let the text game
mechanics take precedence with instant damage or missile weapons (magical throwing daggers
which hit on a 1 to 4) Skill and Attack Strength bonuses are temporarily applied to ADDS.
Interpretation of armour or conversion is acceptable.
Spells- I haven't really thought how to import T&T magic into FF or the Sorcery books, but FF
to T&T is fairly simple - i.e. either it directly effects the situation or an easily converted stat
bonus.
Forest of Doom uses potions and equipment instead of spells. Apart from basic armour and
weapons, let the text guide you as to whatever other equipment is available. Perhaps assume that
your other equipment (like bows and rope) is in transit - if playing with a campaign character.
I haven't thoroughly tested these rules yet.
Babble
Last Edit:
Novor
20,should
2010 at
11:55am
by Billiam
Any
thoughts,
Fighting
Fantasy
and T&T
never be mixed?
zanshin
12th Level
Troll

AP - Any thoughts on how to award AP in FF? - If applicable.

Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 20, 2010 at 6:14pm
Post by zanshin on Nov 20, 2010 at 6:14pm
Hi Bily - thats a nice judgement of how to convert. There was a thread along these lines
somewhere but I really like your ideas.
I had the idea of getting the FF books to scale by using a formula for MR similar to the one you
outline, but then adding the book number to the MR, so you could progress through them with
the same character.
Thanks for this. Have an exalt.

Posts: 2,307
Billiam
Babble
3rd Level
Troll

Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at 12:30am
Post by Billiam Babble on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:30am

Thanks Zanshin. I'll do a search for your original

http://trollbridge.proboards.com/thread/2043/using-rules-fighting-fantasy-gamebooks

thread. Nice idea about the book number as

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Thanks Zanshin. I'll do a search for your original thread. Nice idea about the book number as
well. Some of my thoughts have just bit the dust:
Fang (from T&T 5) just got totally pasted by that first 3d+12 Orc guard which I thought was
"weedy". Clumsy dead Fang.
Formula revision
MR = Skill x 2 ? + Stamina
Posts: 207

Perhaps the reader should be granted a full leather armour, as described in FF?

zanshin
12th Level
Troll
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at 12:35am
Post by zanshin on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:35am
I would look to either give the character gold to buy equipment or the equipment in the book.
Certainly they should have any quest items.

Posts: 2,307
gaptooth
6th Level Troll
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at 12:51am
Post by gaptooth on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:51am
Here's another thread that includes ideas and advice for using T&T to run a Fighting Fantasy
book. I only have the last book in the Sorcery! series and the Sorcery! spell book, which I found
a few years before, and I've never tried using it with Tunnels & Trolls-- but these threads may
give me the push, when I have time.
Posts: 768
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at 1:28am
Post by andrew on Nov 21, 2010 at 1:28am

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:15am Billiam Babble said:

andrew
3rd Level Troll

Although Fighting Fantasy gamebooks can be a little restrictive with regards to choices (there's
very little doubling back or visiting the same location twice) I like the intense description-rich
narrative style.
I wholeheartedly agree! Somewhere amongst all these posts I blabbed on and on about how
important I think this is in any creative writing pursuit, and writing solo adventures is just that!
In the end, I think that feature alone is what led to the fanatical success of the FF and Lone Wolf
gamebooks.
Text based death Failure of a mission or just a wrong turn can equal instant death in FF. A word of warning to
players taking any campaign characters in.

Posts: 106
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Many a gamebook player is sick of this. No more instant deaths ever, please! If I'm playing FF
with T&T rules substitute instant death with at least a L1SR-LK.
Combat and Monster Ratings
The trick here is to sensibly convert Skill and Stamina into a Monster Rating....
Against a 1st or 2nd level warrior of 5th edition it may be surprising how often our hero will
lose against such a monster. I'd recommend a straight conversion of Stamina to CON and a MR
of Skill x 3. So, an ORC with Skill-7, Stamina-12 becomes an ORC with a MR of 21 (3d6+11)
and a CON of 12.
Anyway,
good
info!
Using
T&T
rules
in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at 6:06am
Post by Billiam Babble on Nov 21, 2010 at 6:06am

Nov 21, 2010 at 12:51am gaptooth said:

Here's another thread that includes ideas and advice for using T&T to run a Fighting Fantasy
book.
Yay!

That looks like the thread Zanshin was talking about. Ace.

*quick read*
Billiam
Babble
3rd Level
Troll

It's reassuring to see that we're all thinking along similar lines.
I think if I tried again, I'd dump Fang for someone with bonus adds and proper equipment! Boy
did that buckler take a pounding.
Maybe send in a tough dwarf...
I might play my own house rule of Monster Adds = quarter MR (no charging rules either).
Andrew, that's a very cool suggestion about estimating MR for dice but keeping Stamina for the
monster's CON score.

Posts: 207

I totally agree regarding the excellent prose in FF. I think the quality narrative and "instant
death" paragraphs can be linked in trying to create an "epic" style where "YOU are the hero" etc.
I never felt like much of a hero in Buffalo Castle, and always found something missing
dramatically in some of the T&T Solos I've played (which isn't all that many, come to think).
But certainly those sections are a pain and shouldn't have really made it beyond Choose Your
Own Adventure stories terminated with "The End". It does seem a shame to get readers to roll
dice and do maths only to squish them in a dead end trap, although part of me secretly likes the
cruel destiny of "your die rolls and bonuses cannot save you now! Mwhahahaha, too many
wrong turns!.... Your quest ends here." Grailquest "Turn to 14" - the death page - was always a
bit of a giggle. Man, I'd forgotten that until just now.
edit: quote from wikipedia:
In every book, once you are killed you have to turn to the infamous section 14. This rule is true
for all of J.H. Brennan's gamebooks, except the Demonspawn series where the killed player
must go to the section 13.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grailquest
Okay I'm going back to reread that other T&T>FF thread.
>> trollbridge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=house&action=display&thread=1279
Last Edit: Nov 21, 2010 at 6:25am by Billiam Babble

mahrundl
Global Moderator
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Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 21, 2010 at

12:40pm
Post by mahrundl on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:40pm
Take an Exalt from me as well. There are good ideas here, from
everyone.
Stalwart of the Trollbridge; First to reach
level 7
Posts: 3,360
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 22, 2010 at 1:27pm
Darknight
Post by Darknight on Nov 22, 2010 at 1:27pm
3rd Level Troll With reference to the high quality of prose in FF books, this was one of the things I have always
striven to create in my own works. I don't want a world which is unvisualized by the player this is a gameBOOK and so should read as much like a classic novel as possible.
I played through a load of the FF gamebooks with T&T characters. I just used a simple system
of assigning what I (as a GM) would have thought was a "fair" MR for the characters, with a
gradual standardization appearing (so, Orcs were usually around MR 20-30 etc.)

Posts: 168

I used a rule of "D3+3" lvl SR on Lk for "Testing your luck" and required the "reduce Lk by 1"
whenever it was attempted (temporary reduction, restored at the end of the adventure). Other
tests were handled with SRs. I ruled that 1pt of Stamina damage was a die worth of Con loss,
and healing of 1 Stamina point was 1 die as well.
Last Edit: Nov 22, 2010 at 1:31pm by Darknight
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31am
Post by Billiam Babble on Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31am

Billiam
Babble
3rd Level
Troll
Nov 22, 2010 at 1:27pm Darknight said:
I used a rule of "D3+3" lvl SR on Lk for "Testing your luck" and required the "reduce Lk by 1"
whenever it was attempted (temporary reduction, restored at the end of the adventure). Other
tests were handled with SRs. I ruled that 1pt of Stamina damage was a die worth of Con loss,
and healing of 1 Stamina point was 1 die as well.
Posts: 207

Ace. Interesting Luck Save formula.

I especially like the idea of using dice where FF are just adding or taking boring old 1s and 2s.
Maybe it's a gambler thing.
Billiam Babble Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 24, 2010 at 4:32am
3rd Level Troll Post by Billiam Babble on Nov 24, 2010 at 4:32am

Nov 21, 2010 at 12:40pm mahrundl said:

Take an Exalt from me as well. There are good ideas here, from everyone.
Posts: 207

Darknight
3rd Level Troll

;D Hee hee, thanks. (Climb the ladder, Monty ...)

Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Nov 25, 2010 at 7:40pm
Post by Darknight on Nov 25, 2010 at 7:40pm

http://trollbridge.proboards.com/thread/2043/using-rules-fighting-fantasy-gamebooks

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Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31am Billiam Babble said:

Maybe it's a gambler thing.
Posts: 168
For me, it was a mechanism for dealing with the fact Stamina ranged from 14 to 24 for the FF
character, but Con was often a lot higher for my T&T characters. It might not work for those
arerules
running
less powerful
Usingwho
T&T
in Fighting
Fantasycharacters.
Gamebooks Dec 6, 2010 at 6:32am
Post by Porkbelly on Dec 6, 2010 at 6:32am
A little late to this party, but for what it's worth, I discovered an article by Graeme Davis in Warlock
magazine #9 (the Fighting Fantasy house mag) that dealt with creature conversions from many
different types of gamebooks into FF.
The section on T&T is really short so I've just re-typed it below. It's usefulness in converting from FF
to T&T is questionable, but interesting nonetheless.
Tunnels & Trolls
In most Tunnels & Trolls material, monsters are given a MONSTER RATING (MR) as an index of
Porkbelly their unpleasantness. Again, this is a very different system to Fighting Fantasy, but you should be
4th Level able to get a usable SKILL score from the following table:
Troll
MR
SKILL
up to 16 4
17 to 32 5
Porkbelly
Avatar 33 to 48 6
49 to 64 7
65 to 80 8
Posts: 267 81 to 96 9
97 to 112 10
113 to 128 11
129 to 14412
MRs over 144 may be treated as 12 SKILL or you could add one extra SKILL point for every 20 MR
points over 144 (i.e. MR 145-164 = 13 SKILL, and so on).
STAMINA is more of a problem, owing to the differences between the Fighting Fantasy and Tunnels
& Trolls game systems. As a rule of thumb, the STAMINA score will usually be about twice the
SKILL score. Alternatively, you could roll two dice and add the result to the SKILL score to find the
monster's STAMINA.
zanshin
12th Level
Troll
Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Dec 6, 2010 at 9:06am
Post by zanshin on Dec 6, 2010 at 9:06am
Thanks Porkbelly, good find. I probably would not use it as written to convert back to, but its
always interesting to see someone elses take on it.

Posts: 2,307
cartomancer Using T&T rules in Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Dec 11, 2010 at 8:26am
6th Level Troll Post by cartomancer on Dec 11, 2010 at 8:26am
I believe they published another article a magazine or two later on the conversion between these
two systems too.
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two systems too.

I also broke out the original article too and it strikes me from reading it and, the follow-up that
the best way to convert between T&T and FF is to draw up a look-up chart (always a solid oldPosts: 801
school staple).
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