Staad Pro - Direct analysis and P-Delta Analysis - Structural Analysis and Design - Fo...

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Staad Pro - Direct analysis and PDelta Analysis

Team
I have two questions which I need your help to clarify:
1. Does the P-Delta Analysis already include the small p-delta analysis?
2. Does the Direct Analysis produce the notional load by the staad pro itself or by the
engineer?
I cannot find explanation in the help file.
Thanks so much.
Bruce Chen

Changyi

Fri, Oct 23 2009 4:14 PM

19 Replies (Most Recent Reply)

Fri, Oct 23 2009 5:26 PM

Chris Conrad

Bruce,
1. The P-Delta analysis has a variet of forms now. If your intent is to include the Psmall delta effect, then you can either check the Small Delta checkbox if you are

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adding the command through the GUI, or you can enter the command PDELTA n
ANALYSIS SMALLDELTA



 directly in the input file (where n = number of iterations).
2. The Direct Analysis does not automatically produce the notional loads. Notional
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loads can either be created manually using the Notional Load item in the Repeat
Load category of the Add New : Load Items dialog, or they can be created
automatically as part of the load combination generation process. To do this,
choose Auto Load Combination in the Add New : Load Cases dialog, click the
checkbox named Create Repeat Load Cases in the Auto Load Combination dialog,
and THEN click the Generate Loads button.
Cheers,
Chris

Changyi

Fri, Oct 23 2009 7:03 PM

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Thanks so much for your explanation. By the way, I like to suggest a complete
reference shall be provided in the help file.

Sat, Oct 24 2009 12:40 AM

Chris Conrad

In reply to Changyi:

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On Bruce's behalf: If I check the option of geometric stiffness, does staad perform
the geometric nonlinear



analysis?
Structural Analysis and
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Sat, Oct 24 2009 12:46 AM

Chris Conrad

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Selecting the Geometric Stiffness option instructs STAAD.Pro to add the geometric
stiffness matrix, [Kg], to the original stiffness matrix, [K]. This has the effect of
"softening" the stiffness of the model, so that P-delta effects can be approximated in
a very few iterations. Cheers, Chris

Changyi

Mon, Oct 26 2009 8:54 PM

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Thanks again for your quick and clear explanation.

Tue, Mar 2 2010 2:45 PM

Karthik Mamduri

In reply to Changyi:

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Kindly tell me if the hastle of giving proper effective lengths for columns can be
avoided by performing



a P-Delta analysis.
Doesnt STAAD Pro compute the effective lengths of columns in a frame
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automatically?

Tue, Mar 2 2010 3:18 PM

Chris Conrad

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

Unfortunately the answers to both questions are "no". Performing a P-Delta analysis
does not eliminate the need to assign effective lengths for columns. The P-Delta
analysis addresses secondary effects in members due to interstory drift and member
deflection. Column effective length factors address column stability/buckling, which
is a separate issue. STAAD.Pro does not compute the effective lengths of columns
in a frame automatically. Cheers, Chris

Wed, Mar 3 2010 2:42 PM

Karthik Mamduri

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Firstly, thank you for a quick reply. Will that mean that I need to key in proper
effective lengths while doing a P-Delta Analysis? Then what is the way out? Shall I
as a user calculate the effective lengths based on the codal provisions and then do a
design?.

Secondly. I have observed that using STAAD 2006 I can't key in the unsupported
length of a column. If my observation is correct how does STAAD 2006 calculate
moments due to minimum eccentricity correctly? What I have observed is that it

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computes minimum eccentricity (emin=L/500+D/30) just by taking the node to node

distance as L and

not the
 actual unsupported length. Where as, IS-456-2000
code
advices to use the unsupported length.
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Kindly correct me if I am wrong.
Karthik

Wed, Mar 3 2010 3:14 PM

Chris Conrad

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

Karthik,
We're glad to be able to help quickly.
Just for clarity, the effective lengths are a design issue, and P-Delta is an analysis
issue. So you don't need to worry about effective lengths for a P-Delta analysis, but
you will need to consider effective lengths when you get to the design stage, if your
design code or standard requires their use. The alignment charts for braced and
unbraced structures are the most common way that i am aware of for determining
the K factors for buckling about each axis.
You should be able to use the Ky parameter to specify the K factor for buckling
about the local y axis, Kz parameter to specify the K factor for buckling about the
local z axis, Ly parameter to specify the length to use when determining KyLy/ry,
and Lz parameter to specify the length to use when determining KzLz/rz. To the
best of my knowledge, these design parameters were available in STAAD.Pro 2006.
I don't see any evidence that STAAD.Pro is actually applying any logic to account for
minimum eccentricity when I use the ACI or IS456 code. Perhaps some of my
colleagues who are conversant with IS456 implementation in STAAD.Pro can
comment.
Cheers,

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Chris

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Wed, Mar 3 2010 4:21 PM

Karthik Mamduri

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Thank you again. By Kz factor do you mean the parameter ELZ? and By L factor do
you mean ULZ factor?

Wed, Mar 3 2010 4:48 PM

Chris Conrad

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

My pleasure.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to plead ignorance on the IS456 parameters.
However, if the question is urgent, you can submit the question in the form of a
Service Ticket using the following link, and someone from the Tech Support Group
will respond.
http://www.bentley.com/serviceticketmanager/
Cheers,
Chris

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Structural Analysis and
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Sat, Mar 13 2010 8:21 AM

Karthik Mamduri

In reply to Chris Conrad:

Dear Chris,
I raised a ticket and got an instant and prompt reply. The 2006 build that I use
doesn't support unsupported length factor parameter it seems, whereas it is
available in 2006 build 1005. Can I download a patch and update my my version?

I have few other queries. When do we use beta angle? I made a simple model
(single piece column) and assigned a beta angle a value zero, I saved the model in
a different file and assigned a beta value 90. What I observed was that only the
initial moments got swapped, other moments like moment due to minimum
eccentricity and moment due to slenderness effect remained the same.
Can you brief me about the effect of beta angle?
The next query is about adding a load case. If at least one load case is required to
carry out analysis why not add an empty load case automatically helping the user
avoiding few steps?
Thank You

Sat, Mar 13 2010 8:28 PM

Sye

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

Hi Karthik,

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STAAD.Pro updates do not come in the form of patches anymore. You will need to
uninstall the current


 and install the latest one which is available for download

version
from the Software Downloads section within http://selectservices.bentley.com/en-US
Structural Analysis and
Structural Analysis and
Beta angle is used for changing orientation of members. Put it simply, if you would
like to rotate a member by 90 degree about its longitudinal axis ( local x ) you would
use beta angle of 90. The effect of that is, if the applied loading was defined with
respect to global axis and remains unchanged, your member moment My would now
be Mz and vice versa. But remember assigning beta does not interchange the local
axes or in other words what was local Y does not become local Z after the beta is
changed to 90. All you are doing is rotating the local axis and the cross section by
90. The depth is still parallel to local Y and width is still parallel to local Z. So as far
as cross sectional dimensions are concerned, there is no effect on the min
eccentricity or the slenderness moments that the IS: 456 defines. The other factor
that affects these moments are the unsupported lengths which are specified using
design parameters and not the beta angle. So unless you are changing the
unsupported lengths explicitly by using the design parameters, changing the beta
angle alone is not going to have any effect on slenderness or min eccentricity
moments.
Defining a load case isn't enough by itself. There has to be some load items defined
as part of it too and those items have to be assigned to the structural members by
the user. So this process cannot be an automated one. Even when defining a load
case one may want to define an appropriate load case title and a loading type which
would again need user intervention.
I hope this helps.
Thanks,
Sye

Wed, Mar 17 2010 4:41 PM

Karthik Mamduri

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

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Dear Sye,

Thank you! Now I have a different issue.

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I use STAAD Pro 2007 build 01 at my office. What I have observed today is that
even if I click the parameter ULZ and asign a value, STAAD Pro 2007 build 01 is
printing it as ULY, it is shown as ULY in the concrete design window as well as the
input file. I am using the GUI and IS-456 as the design code. It appears to be a bug
to me. Kindly clarify.
Regards
Karthik

Mon, Apr 19 2010 12:06 PM

H Biswas

In reply to Karthik Mamduri:

Dear Sye,
The context appears me interesting; I was interested in non-linear analysis for
transmission tower; the linear one absoultely fine-however could not be able to
generate a tangible outcome; two questions were in mind quite for long-time:
1) Does it take care of geometric and material or only geometric
2) What are the theoritical procedure it follows like Newton-Raphson/TL/UL etc
Would you like to update me please
thanks
Hillol

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Wed, Jul 7 2010 11:56 AM

richierich008

In reply to Chris Conrad:

hi..
i am doing a non linear analyis on a column structure. and i want to chesk the pdelta effects. but it always says that moment balance does not consider secondary
effects of P-delta or small P-delta...what does this mean????i am in urgent need of
a solution...please reply asap..

Wed, Jul 7 2010 12:42 PM

Ruddranil

In reply to richierich008:

Hi,
Make sure that the NONLINEAR or PDELTA analysis is being only on
realistic cases (the combination cases created using the REPEAT LOAD command).
If you do it for just component cases (WIND only or LIVE only, etc), there is a good
chance that the solution will diverge, besides the fact that the results will be
meaningless due to the unrealistic nature of such cases in the sense that they do
not act alone.
If that doesnt answer your question, please upload your file. Better yet,
contact the STAAD support personnel.

Thu, Jul 15 2010 4:56 PM

richierich008

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In reply to Ruddranil:

i did a pushover analysis on a beam element...and all the time i am getting an error
thatStructural
is 'only gravity
andand
push load
type are considered
for pushover analysis..what
Analysis

Structural
Analysis and
shall i do...plz its very urgent.

Sun, Jul 18 2010 11:06 AM

SKLose

Answer to question 1 : In STAAD.Pro V8i Build 35 (20.07.06.35), small delta effect is

included by default for PDELTA analysis. In prior builds, it is not the default, so, you
need to add the keyword SMALLDELTA to the PDELTA ANALYSIS command. To
be on the safe side, if you want to ensure that smalldelta effects are included,
provide the command as
PDELTA n ANALYSIS SMALLDELTA
where n is a number of your choice (15 or greater recommended).
Answer to question 2 :
If you add the load item called "NOTIONAL LOAD' to your gravity load cases,
notional loads are calculated. If you don't add that load item, notional loads are not
calculated.
LOAD 1
REFERENCE LOAD
R1 1.2 R2 1.6
NOTIONAL LOAD
R1 X 0.0024 R2 X 0.0032
LOAD 2
REFERENCE LOAD

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R1 1.2 R2 1.6

NOTIONAL LOAD
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R1 X -0.0024 R2 X -0.0032
LOAD 3
REFERENCE LOAD
R1 1.2 R2 1.6
NOTIONAL LOAD
R1 Z 0.0024 R2 Z 0.0032
LOAD 4
REFERENCE LOAD
R1 1.2 R2 1.6
NOTIONAL LOAD
R1 Z -0.0024 R2 Z -0.0032

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