Thrust Position

The 3500 Monitoring System

Thrust Position

2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

Thrust position is a measure of the position or change in position of a rotor in the

axial direction with respect to the thrust bearing.
This section introduces you to thrust position measurements, shows how to
configuration Thrust Position channels, and describes how to connect the test
equipment used to verify Thrust Position channels.

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Objectives
Define Thrust Position and identify the uses
of this measurement
Configure a Thrust Position channel
Connect test equipment used to verify Thrust
Position channels

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

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Thrust Position

Thrust Definition
Thrust Collar and
Thrust Bearing

Axial Rub

Thrust Position probe

installation

Thrust Collar
Thrust
Bearing
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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

Thrust Position is the average position, or change in position, of a rotor in the axial
direction with respect to some fixed reference. Typically, the reference is the thrust
bearing support structure or other casing member to which the probe is mounted.
Thrust position measurements are valuable because they let you track the axial
position of the shaft and avoid destructive events like axial rubs. The thrust position
probe may observe the thrust collar directly or some other integral, axial shaft
surface, as long as it is within about 305 mm (12 inches) of the thrust bearing.

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Thrust Position

Thrust Probes
THRUST
COLLAR

CHANNEL A
PROBE

CHANNEL B
PROBE

SHAFT

CHANNEL C
PROBE

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

Thrust position is the axial position of the rotor with respect to the axial clearances
within the machine. The measurement is made by measuring the distance between
the proximity probe and the thrust collar or other shaft axial surfaces. The primary
objective is to prevent severe axial rubs and machine destruction.
Two probes installed in a dual voting arrangement, shown on this page as channel A
probe and channel B probe, are recommended for maximum reliability and
machinery monitoring. Both probes should observe an axial surface that is an
integral part of the shaft.
You can use these two thrust channels to provide the recommended redundant
protection by programming the channel alarms into the logic for a 3500 relay
channel. We discuss 3500 relay channels in a later section of this training.
The probes can measure the thrust collar directly, or other axial surfaces, as long as
both probes are within 12" of the thrust collar. Thrust Position probes that are
mounted far apart, such as the probe labeled channel C probe, cannot be used
because of the thermal expansion of the shaft.

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Thrust Position

Axial Position
THRUST
BEARING
ASSEMBLY

THRUST
PADS

THRUST
COLLAR
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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

Defined as the average position or change in position or a rotor in the axial

direction relative to a fixed point.
Measurement made within 12 of the thrust bearing
Fixed point reference is either the thrust bearing assembly or a machine case
structure close to the thrust bearing

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Thrust Position

Thrust Monitor Selection

3500/45

3500/42M
3500/40M

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

The Thrust Position channel type is available on the 3500/40M and /42M
Proximitor/Seismic Monitors and on the 3500/45 Position Monitor.
Notice that the 3500/45 Position Monitor has an extensive assortment of channel
types that use complementary pairs of two proximitor sensors. Besides the usual
Differential Expansion and Thrust Position types, the 3500/45 also includes
Standard Single Ramp Differential Expansion, Non- standard Single Ramp
Differential Expansion, Dual Ramp Differential Expansion, and Complementary
Input Differential Expansion.
The configuration instructions in this section show parameters for a Thrust Position
channel on a 3500/42M monitor. Notice that these instructions also apply to Thrust
Position channels on 3500/40M and 3500/45 monitors as well.

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Monitor Configuration

Right-click
on selected
module

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

You start configuring a Thrust Position channel by right clicking on the monitor and
then selecting Options from the drop down list.

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Thrust Position

Monitor Configuration

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

You configure a channel pair as Thrust Position by selecting Thrust Position from
the Channel Pair Type drop down list and then by clicking the Options button.

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Thrust Position

Configuration Parameters for

Thrust Position Channels

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

The configuration parameters for Thrust Position channels are access by using two tabs,
Transducer Setup + Filtering and Variables + Alarms. The parameters for the first tab
are shown on this page.

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Thrust Position

Configuration Parameters for

Thrust Position Channels

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

This page shows the Thrust Position configuration parameters under the Variables +
Alarms tab.
The important configuration parameters for Thrust Position channels are
Zero Position Voltage
Full-scale Range (the range is defined with respect to the zero voltage)
Thrust direction
These parameters are discussed in more detail on the following few pages.

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Configuration Parameters for Thrust Position Channels

Zero Position and Full-scale

Range
Voltages for full-scale range
Scale factor

200 mV/mil
-OR-

40 mil voltage
range
OK Limits

Zero Position

0.2 V/mil
40 mil x 0.2 V/mil = 8 Vdc
-10 Vdc 8 Vdc
= -2 Vdc and 18 Vdc

Displacement:

40 mil

0 mil

40 mil

Gap Voltage:

-2 Vdc

-10 Vdc

-18 Vdc

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

For a Thrust Position channel, the Full-scale Range is defined based on a Zero Position
Voltage.
Zero Position -- You begin the configuration by adjusting the shaft axially until the thrust
collar is resting against the thrust pads in the Normal or upscale thrust orientation. You
then gap the probe such that gap voltage is at the middle of the linear range. For Thrust
Position channels, this voltage is defined as the Zero Position voltage. This voltage is an
initial position or reference. A Thrust Position channel measures the distance or variance
from this zero position and this measurement can indicate such things as the amount of wear
on the thrust pads.
Full-scale Range For a Thrust Position channel, the full-scale range is set as a distance
toward and away from the zero position reference voltage. In the example on this page, the
full-scale range is set at 40-0-40 mils. If you assume that the zero position voltage is 10
Vdc, then the voltages for the OK Limits for this channel would be 2 Vdc and 18 Vdc.

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Thrust Position
Configuration Parameters for Thrust Position Channels

Normal Thrust Direction

Zero Position

Movement in
normal direction

Movement opposite
normal direction

upscale

down scale

Thrust Orientation:
Normal Toward
Normal Away

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

The Thrust Direction parameter defines the orientation of the thrust position probe with
respect to the normal direction of the rotor.
The Normal direction of a rotor is the direction that the shaft is forced due to the designed
operation of the machine. For example for a steam turbine, the Normal direction is from the
high pressure inlet towards the low pressure inlet. For a hydro generator, the normal
direction is down.
Thrust orientation is defined as the relation between the Normal direction of the rotor and
the orientation of the thrust probe. Therefore, a setting of Normal Toward indicates that
the Normal direction of the rotor is toward the tip of the thrust position probe. If the
Normal direction of the rotor is Normal Toward, then the upscale indication on a bargraph
scale with be the larger (less negative) voltage.

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Thrust Position

Adjusting Setpoints

Right-click
on selected
module

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

After the Thrust Position channels are configured, you set the alarm setpoints by
right clicking on the monitor and then selecting Setpoints from the drop down list.

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Adjusting Setpoints/Copying

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Alert/Alarm 1 level setpoint adjustments are allowed on each of the variables,

including direct and gap
Danger/Alarm 2 level setpoint adjustments are allowed for any two of the variables
Setpoints may be adjusted on the graphical scales, or by entering values into the
setpoint boxes

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Thrust Position

Configuration Consideration

WARNING:
Read the WARNING
before you proceed!
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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

The configuration process for the 3500 monitoring system has been designed to minimize errors and support
effective machinery monitoring and protection. However, once a system has been configured for a specific
facility, several issues must be considered before downloading a configuration to a monitoring system.
The window above is the third in a sequence of windows that challenge the user before the configuration
download can occur. In some cases, there may be one or two additional windows displayed before the
download happens. If the monitoring system is in the critical control path of a machine, it is designed to
minimize changes of the system due to configuration. However, while the monitor itself is designed to
bypass itself and NOT vote on a relay state change, it is actually possible that placing the monitor in bypass
may allow another monitor to cause a relay state change because it is now the only one voting. In many
cases, this may not be known unless the user carefully evaluates each and every logical condition made
possible by the relay configuration.
In short, it is possible that a monitor rack may unexpectedly change the state of a relay and shut down a
machine when a configuration is downloaded, and other configuration conditions are met. Bently Nevada
recommends that all appropriately identified voting monitors be bypassed via a hardware or software
control method before downloading a new configuration to a given monitor. In some cases, it may even be
wise to modify the control system so that the appropriate monitor(s) is/are out of the critical control path for
the duration of the configuration process. The user may also choose to bypass the whole rack using either a
hardware or software control. However, remember that bypassing the whole monitoring rack will
temporarily eliminate ALL machinery protection controlled by that rack for the period that it is bypassed.
Since the configuration process will be a few minutes at most, this bypassing process should not be
maintained for very long.

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Review
What is thrust position?
How is thrust position measured?
What are some ways that thrust position
measurements are used?

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

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Thrust Position

3500 Rack Configuration

Question
&
Answer

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2008 General Electric Company. All rights reserved.

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