Gay Pride & Gay Rights in China: a Dutch Perspective

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Gay Pride in the Netherlands and China LGBT Rights in the Dutch China Policy, Panel
Discussion
Date: August 1st, 2014
Place: De Rode Hoed (http://www.rodehoed.nl/en/), Amsterdam, the Netherlands
By: The Asia & Oceania Department of the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs
(http://www.government.nl/ministries/bz) and Radio Netherlands Worldwide
(http://www.rnw.nl/english).
Discussion leader: Garrie van Pinxteren (http://www.clingendael.nl/person/garrievan-pinxteren?lang=nl )
Blogged by: Manya Koetse (https://twitter.com/manyapan)

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What are the main challenges for gays in China? What is the current LGBT
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) situation in the PRC? And what is the Dutch
foreign policy stance on this issue? These questions will be addressed at todays event,
jointly organized by the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Radio Netherlands
Worldwide (http://www.rnw.org/press/en/rnw-host-international-activistshomophobic-regions-during-amsterdam-gay-pride), taking place in Amsterdam at the
time of the Gay Pride 2014 (http://www.amsterdamgaypride.nl/). Whats on Weibo will
shortly liveblog this event from 14:30 to 16.00 (CET), be sure to refresh the page to see
new updates. (Update: Live blog now closed.)
14:30
The panel discussion is about to commence. Outside the venue is a large mirror where
participants can take selfies and twitter them with hashtag #standbyme
(https://twitter.com/hashtag/standbyme?f=realtime&src=hash).

(http://www.whatsonweibo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bt9A4drIcAEc_AK.jpg)
14:50
While participants are slowly gathering in the conference room at Amsterdams Rode
Hoed (http://www.rodehoed.nl/en/), a short round-up of current news on homosexuality
in China: a big story made the headlines over the previous week. As the Washington Post
(http://wapo.st/1u3JuN8) reported on the 31st of July, gay activists sued a counseling
center in Beijing on Thursday over a conversion therapy that is supposed to cure
Chinese homosexuals.Homosexuality doesnt need to be cured!, protesters chanted
(http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/homosexuality-doesn-t-need-to-be-cured1.1728420#.U9uMAYCSzV4) outside the Beijing courthouse. Homosexuality was no

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longer defined as a mental disorder in China since 2001.

15:00
Garrie van Pinxteren (http://www.clingendael.nl/person/garrievan-pinxteren?lang=nl ) is the moderator of todays discussion. There is a delegation from
China here today from different fields: journalists, bloggers and activists a total of eight
people. One of them is Mrs. Li Yinhe (http://www.thechinastory.org/key-intellectual
/li-yinhe-%E6%9D%8E%E9%93%B6%E6%B2%B3/), a well-known sociologist, sexologist,
and activist for LGBT rights in China. Also at the table is Mr. Wang Chong, chief executive
of Phoenix Core Project of Ifeng (http://www.ifeng.com/). Ifeng offers LGBT community
an online platform in China to share LGBT news, exchanges and information. Mr. Geng
Le, another panelist, is a human rights activist and Chinese pink economy pioneer. He is
the founder of the NGO Danlan (http://www.danlan.org/), which aims to provide news
and dating service to the Chinese LGBT group.
First, Mrs. Dewi van de Weerd from the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs addresses the
audience. Mrs. Van de Weerd is coordinator of the Human Rights team, working at the
Dutch embassy in Beijing from 2000 till 2004. Equality is on the top of our list, she says,
and the LGBT is an important group where equality needs to be stressed: Homosexuality
is still a criminal offense in over eighty countries. It is especially important for the
Netherlands to emphasize this equality, as it was the first country in the world where
same-sex marriage came into effect. There are many organizations that want to become
NGOs, but do not know how: We help them building their capacity, Van de Weerd says.
15:15
Garrie van Pinxteren talks about her experiences as an exchange student in China in 1982.
When she came out to her Chinese room mate, she did not react as Van Pinxteren
expected; she did not react at all. I then realized the taboo that came with being gay in
China, Van Pinxteren says. The question is: how is the situation in China today? What has
changed since 1982?

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Chinese politicians would say: China is different

from other countries- you have homosexuality, we
dont.

In 1982, Li Yinhe says, little was known about homosexuality in China. It was not allowed.
At the time, Chinese politicians would say: China is different from other countries- you
have homosexuality, we dont. Homosexuality was never in the public discourse. But now,
Li Yinhe says, China is heading to a sexual revolution. Homosexuality is a topic that is
talked about much more nowadays.
The founder of Danlan, Geng Le, was once threatened for openly being gay and publishing
the LGBT scene. Much has changed since the 1980s, Geng Le says: The most important
shift started around the Beijing Olympics of 2008, when there was more openness on the
Internet. Danlan is now allowed by the Chinese government, and is not blocked, because
Geng convinced the government that openness about homosexuality is crucial in HIV
prevention.
Garrie van Pinxteren addresses another question: Why would the Chinese government
have any fear at all about talking about LGBT groups? There isnt any politics in being gay,
or is there?

The government is not against homosexuality,

they are against sex in general.

15:30
They are not against homosexuality, necessarily, Li Yinhe says: They are against sex in

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general. China has the most strict laws in the world concerning sex. In 1997 China
basically used criminal law to punish all extramarital sex. Li Yinhe tells of one case where
a Chinese woman was punished for having sex with various men, without even prostituting
herself. Having sex with more than two people is considered a crime, and prostitution is
still illegal in China. In traditional Chinese culture, sex was considered a healthy thing to
do, but at a certain point in history sex became stigmatized. There was even a Chinese
saying: youd rather starve to death than lose your virginity. The way sex was controlled
also changed.
What are the real taboos on the subject of LGBT in China?, Van Pinxteren asks.
Criticizing the government in any way, Geng Le answers. We focus on two things; we
translate a huge amount of foreign news on LGBT issues, and we talk about how local
activist groups are doing. We are basically saying good things about the government- even
if they only make one step forward, we make it seem like it is an enormous improvement.
We are trying to convince the government that LGBT issues are not political they are
about human rights. We should let the gay people in China live in dignity.
15:40
Geng Le talks about the governments fear on homosexuality. If gays stand up in China,
they could potentially have some political influence because of their magnitude, Geng Le
explains. Another factor is that players in the international field use the gay issue as a
piggyback when pressing China for other issues.
The discussion shifts to the topic of same-sex marriage: Theres still a long way to go,
Geng Le says: Gay marriage is a a legal concept- but the general improvement on gay
issues in China does not necessarily lie in marriage, it lies in anti-discrimination. That is
what we focus on.
15:50
Xiaoling Wu, senior policy officer at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands, has
a question about the role of the Netherlands and other countries in Chinas LGBT
issues: What stance should we take as foreign countries, Wu asks: Should we support
the local NGOs on these issues, or should we let China handle its own affairs?

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Geng Le stresses the importance of the international community it should not stay aloof
from these issues. Because of previously expressed critique on UN level, there already has
been made progress within China on gay issues: The government has showed that it is
willing to accept criticism on its LGBT policies. There was also good news today that the
homophobia law in Uganda has been changed. The international community also played a
crucial role in this.
16:00
Van de Weerd explains that it has also taken the Netherlands a long time to accept
homosexuality and to make big steps in anti-discrimination, which is still a work in
progress. Therefore, Van de Weerd emphasizes, it is important to realize that the road to
equality and acceptance does take time and comes in little steps.
Wang Chong says that Chinese mass media also plays an important role in increasing
acceptance of homosexuality and LGBT groups. Unfortunately, Wang says: In China,
when a man eats a dog, it becomes news, but when the dog eats the man, its not. Wang
mentions how important issues such as the air pollution and environment protection are
neglected in the media; it will take time before the mass media start paying serious
attention to LGBT issues.

Weibo has contributed to the social acceptance of

homosexuals amongst young people.

An attendee from China reacts from the audience. She wants to emphasize that she feels
that homosexuality is actually widely accepted amongst young Chinese people. This is
something that becomes clear through Weibo and the topics younger generations
commonly talk about. Homosexuals are considered fashionable and stylish and there are
positive associations with gay couples. Weibo has contributed to this, she says, as there are
bloggers who talk about their everyday lives with their same-sex partner. These blogs have
become extremely popular.

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16:20
However, Geng Le still sees a long road ahead. Chinas LGBT NGOs are not fully
professionalized yet- many are not even registered as such. But Geng Le does not think
about giving up on the promotion of gay equality in China. Even if the government shuts
down our website (http://www.danlan.org/), he says: well still find ways to publish our
content elsewhere.
16:30
Li Yinhe talsk about the importance of marriage in Chinese traditional culture. Not only is
marrying considered crucial, not bringing forth children is almost considered a crime. Not
settling down and starting a family is a disgrace to your parents this brings great
pressure to homosexuals.
16:40
An attendee brings up the subject of lesbians: We have been talking a lot about gays, and
have not mentioned lesbians, how is the status on that issue? Danlan founder Geng Le
jokingly remarks that he doesnt know, as there are not a lot of women in his life. On a
more serious note, he says that he does get criticized for not paying enough attention to
lesbian issues. There will therefore be a site launch focused on lesbians. Geng does stress
that there are already a lot of activist groups focused on homosexual women.

(http://www.whatsonweibo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Bts_6d8CUAIiPxn.jpg)

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Li Yunhe adds that there is extra difficulty for lesbians who live in rural areas. If you do
not marry and conceive children, people will consider these women to be freaks. There
are cases of women who commit suicide as a consequence. There is still a lot to be done on
the issue.
16:50
We have run out of time, Van Pinxteren concludes. Of course, there is still one thing left
to say: Enjoy Gay Pride Amsterdam!
This live blog is now closed.

Author

Manya Koetse (http://www.whatsonweibo.com/author/manya-koetse/)

About the author: Manya Koetse is the editor-in-chief of
www.whatsonweibo.com. She is a writer and consultant (Sinologist, MPhil) on
social trends in China, with a focus on social media and digital developments,
Sino-Japanese relations and gender issues. Contact at
manya@whatsonweibo.com (mailto:manya@whatsonweibo.com), or follow on
Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/manyapan).

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