UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA

IN RE: . Case No. 17-10615 (REF)

.
.
STANLEY J. CATERBONE, . 400 Washington Street
. Reading, PA 19601
.
Debtor. .
. February 16, 2017
. . . . . . . . . . . . .. 11:16 a.m.

TRANSCRIPT OF ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE AND STATUS CONFERENCE

BEFORE HONORABLE RICHARD E. FEHLING
UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT JUDGE

APPEARANCES:

For the Debtor: By: STANLEY CATERBONE, PRO SE

1250 Fremont Street
Lancaster, PA 17603

Audio Operator: Sara I. Roman

Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording, transcript

produced by transcription service.

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1 THE COURT: And the only other matter on the list is

2 Mr. Caterbone. Come up to counsel table, please, sir -- or,

3 no, you can stay at the microphone.

4 This is -- there are two matters, one is to show

5 cause why it shouldnt be dismissed for credit counseling, and

6 the other is a Chapter 11 status conference.

7 Let me just note that in response presumably to my

8 order dealing with your proceeding in forma pauperis, your

9 affidavit is not an affidavit. If you want it to be an

10 affidavit, you need to get it sworn before a notary. You just

11 crossed things out and wrote your name in.

12 MR. CATERBONE: Well, theres no form, Your Honor,

13 for a Chapter 11. I went through this with the clerk.

14 THE COURT: No, no. No, sir, youre

15 misunderstanding.

16 MR. CATERBONE: Go ahead.

17 THE COURT: You filed an affidavit today, moments

18 ago.

19 MR. CATERBONE: Yes.

20 THE COURT: Its not an affidavit because you didnt

21 have it sworn before a notary.

22 MR. CATERBONE: Okay.

23 THE COURT: You need to get -- and Im just telling

24 you this so that, you know, I dont do another order ordering

25 you to do this because --

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1 MR. CATERBONE: Well, can I ask why theres no form

2 for a Chapter 11?

3 THE COURT: You may ask, but you have to -- you cant

4 ask me. You have to ask Congress.

5 MR. CATERBONE: Okay.

6 THE COURT: Because they dont --

7 MR. CATERBONE: All right.

8 THE COURT: They dont have forms for 11 or for --

9 MR. CATERBONE: Ill get it notarized.

10 THE COURT: -- Chapter 13 for that matter.

11 MR. CATERBONE: Ill get it notarized and submit it.

12 THE COURT: I guess the feeling is if you cant

13 afford the filing fee, you cant afford to be in a Chapter 11.

14 I have dismissed a number of Chapter 11 filings over the last

15 11 years because they didnt pay a filing fee.

16 MR. CATERBONE: Well, Your Honor, if you recall, I

17 was in Chapter 11 from 2005 until 2011, and I had in forma

18 pauperis granted.

19 THE COURT: By my predecessor.

20 MR. CATERBONE: By you.

21 THE COURT: I did -- by Judge Twardowski. If you

22 filed in 2005, sir, I was not judge --

23 MR. CATERBONE: But you had the case up through --

24 THE COURT: Mr. Caterbone.

25 MR. CATERBONE: All right.

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1 THE COURT: Theres no sense in arguing. If it was a

2 2005 case, my predecessor had it and I did not. Yes, once he

3 granted it, Im not going to reverse that, but -- because it

4 never came up, but Im just telling you what the rules are,

5 and, again, its not my rules, its Congress. Okay.

6 The first matter well deal with is dismissing this

7 case dealing with credit counseling. Would you swear Mr.

8 Caterbone in, please.

9 COURTROOM DEPUTY: Please raise your right hand.

10 STANLEY J. CATERBONE, DEBTOR, SWORN

11 COURTROOM DEPUTY: State your name and spell it for

12 the record.

13 THE WITNESS: Stanley J. Caterbone, C-a-t-e-r-b-

14 o-n-e.

15 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. This -- a couple of

16 things, first of all, you put down that you didnt have credit

17 counseling and you said why, and you said you would be getting

18 it on a date that I didnt really understand the way it was

19 written, but more importantly, you didnt explain why you

20 didnt get credit counseling before you filed, which is what is

21 required by the Bankruptcy Code.

22 THE WITNESS: I submitted a submittal on the 3rd

23 explaining that I tried to go through credit counseling, but I

24 was computer hacked. I couldnt log in --

25 THE COURT: Okay. And --

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1 THE WITNESS: -- to the course.

2 THE COURT: Okay. And --

3 THE WITNESS: I submitted that and it was recorded on

4 February 3rd.

5 THE COURT: Yes, sir. You didnt try to call?

6 THE WITNESS: Call who?

7 THE COURT: A credit counseling agency?

8 THE WITNESS: Yes, I talked to them. They gave me

9 the website.

10 THE COURT: No, no, but then when you couldnt do it

11 by computer, you can do it by telephone.

12 THE WITNESS: I didnt know that. I thought I had to

13 do it online.

14 THE COURT: No, and I dont know where you might have

15 gotten that information except from the folks perhaps with whom

16 you spoke, but theyre not the court. Theyre a separate

17 entity.

18 See, the thing is this, Mr. Caterbone, difficulties

19 might arise immediately before a bankruptcy, and in 2006 before

20 -- actually a month before I sat as a judge, one of our judges,

21 Judge Raslavich, did a decision in a case called DiPinto, and

22 in that case Judge Raslavich ruled and I have followed it since

23 then, as well as -- and other judges in the Eastern District of

24 Pennsylvania have, and it says that this is a jurisdictional

25 matter and that there is certain exceptions in the law, one of

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1 them is if youre in the hospital for treatment at the time of

2 your filing, the other is if youre not only in the military,

3 but in the military and stationed overseas. Those are the only

4 two reasons that the Section 108 allows you or 109, what --

5 that the credit counseling section allows somebody to file it

6 later.

7 And for 11 years for -- Ive had instances in which

8 the debtor tells me that their secured creditor had agreed with

9 them, that they would back off a mortgage foreclosure and then

10 the night before it they said, no, were going to go ahead, or

11 negotiations were going on and debtors wanted to continue to

12 negotiate and didnt want to get credit counseling. There are

13 a lot of folks over the last 10 or 11 years who have not gotten

14 credit counseling for one reason or another and it didnt fit

15 within the emergency situations that Congress has imposed upon

16 us.

17 MR. CATERBONE: Theres no discretion in the rule?

18 THE COURT: There is discretion, and what I said was

19 Congress provided two examples of that discretion.

20 MR. CATERBONE: Okay.

21 THE COURT: And its not a rule. Its a statute.

22 MR. CATERBONE: I understand, statute. All right.

23 THE COURT: Its a statute.

24 MR. CATERBONE: I understand.

25 THE COURT: The two exceptions are, again, if youre

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1 actually in -- admitted and in the hospital for the --

2 MR. CATERBONE: Neither of those two apply, so.

3 THE COURT: Im sorry?

4 MR. CATERBONE: Neither of those two exceptions apply

5 to me, so --

6 THE COURT: Thats --

7 MR. CATERBONE: -- you dont have to labor on it.

8 THE COURT: No question, but if there were something

9 else, like, for instance, I mean you were not in the hospital,

10 and thats what it says, in a hospital, but you were on home

11 care and you have a doctor certify that you couldnt move for

12 --

13 MR. CATERBONE: That doesnt apply to me either.

14 THE COURT: No, I know. I know, sir. Im just

15 saying those are the types of exceptions that the bankruptcy --

16 that Congress allowed in the Bankruptcy Code. And whether

17 credit counseling works or is appropriate is not for me to say.

18 The Congress enacted it, and Im obliged to enforce it. And

19 that being the case, Im going to dismiss your case, again,

20 because its jurisdictional, according to Judge Raslavich, and

21 Ive agreed with him for 11 years, and that means I have

22 discretion only very narrowly granted by the legislation and if

23 that exception is not met, then I have no discretion but to

24 dismiss the case. And thats way I -- you know, I dont know if

25 theres any way you can check it, but just for your

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1 edification, if you go back 11 years Ive dealt --

2 MR. CATERBONE: Well, Ill research your opinion.

3 THE COURT: -- thats the way Ive dealt with credit

4 counseling.

5 MR. CATERBONE: Ill research the dismissal.

6 THE COURT: So because Im going to dismiss it on the

7 basis of no credit counseling, Im not going to get into the

8 Chapter 11 status conferences at this time. If there is

9 another Chapter 11 filed, then I will get into the status

10 conference. And the status conference is intended for me to

11 find out why you filed bankruptcy, why you need to be in

12 bankruptcy and when you think youll get out of bankruptcy and

13 how you think youll get --

14 MR. CATERBONE: Let me ask you a question. I filed

15 the reorganization and disclosure plan.

16 THE COURT: I saw that.

17 MR. CATERBONE: Well, all those questions are

18 answered in that. Now, if I refile, I have to refile

19 everything over? I cant --

20 THE COURT: Yes, sir.

21 MR. CATERBONE: Okay.

22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.

23 MR. CATERBONE: All right. Thats what Ill do.

24 THE COURT: Okay. In Case 86, Stan Caterbone, on

25 this record by bench order I dismiss the case for failure --

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1 MR. CATERBONE: But I do reserve the right to appeal

2 your decision if I find that there is --

3 THE COURT: I dont --

4 MR. CATERBONE: -- other discretions --

5 THE COURT: Oh, I dont it, sir.

6 MR. CATERBONE: -- that I --

7 THE COURT: You dont need to reserve any rights --

8 MR. CATERBONE: Okay.

9 THE COURT: -- sir.

10 MR. CATERBONE: All right.

11 THE COURT: You know, you were before me for a number

12 of years, and I dont know that youve ever asked me for leave,

13 which I would not say you dont need my leave. You dont need

14 to reserve your right to appeal. Its entirely up to you, and

15 I know youre very cognizant of the rights of appeals. Youve

16 been in district court, circuit court. I think you had or have

17 something pending before the Supreme Court.

18 So dismissed for failure to obtain credit counseling.

19 Very well. Thank you, Mr. Caterbone.

20 MR. CATERBONE: Thank you, Your Honor. Have a good

21 day.

22 THE COURT: Thank you. Oh, and written order to

23 follow.

24 MR. CATERBONE: I have another question, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: I may be able to answer it. You may ask.

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1 MR. CATERBONE: The case before that, appearing by

2 telephone, when is that available?

3 THE COURT: For a pro se party --

4 MR. CATERBONE: No.

5 THE COURT: -- Im very -- well, thats what you are,

6 Im very reluctant to do it because as experienced as you are

7 in bankruptcy court and in other courts, youre not a lawyer

8 and the nuance --

9 MR. CATERBONE: All right. I just didnt know. I

10 thought Id ask because of sometimes certain things is --

11 THE COURT: No one is foreclosed from doing it. You

12 do it at your risk. If you have any exhibits, its a whole

13 rigmarole that you need to go through to deal with your

14 exhibits. So -- and Im just telling you that --

15 MR. CATERBONE: Yeah, I understand.

16 THE COURT: -- you may do it. Theres no question.

17 When I -- in my practices and procedures I say, you -- folks,

18 may -- I dont know, I may even say counsel, but parties may

19 appear by telephone. I advise you caution in choosing to do

20 that.

21 MR. CATERBONE: Yeah, I just inquired. Thats all

22 right.

23 THE COURT: Okay.

24 MR. CATERBONE: All right. Thank you.

25 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, sir.

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C E R T I F I C A T I O N

I, COLETTE MEHESKI, court approved transcriber,

certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the

official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the

above-entitled matter, and to the best of my ability.

/s/ Colette Meheski

COLETTE MEHESKI

J&J COURT TRANSCRIBERS, INC. DATE: May 3, 2017

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