REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview

With Michael Cantu

Michael: Hello everyone, this is Michael Kimble with the REI Marketing Club and I want
to thank you for listening in on this months edition of the REI Marketer of the
Month Interview Series.

Today, I have a very experienced real estate investor and entrepreneur on the
phone. In fact, hes been a full-time real estate investor for over 28 years now.
His name is Mike Cantu and hes headquartered in southern California just
about 30 minutes east of LA.

He runs a buy and sell operation in southern California. He wholesales

properties and, also, he manages his rental house portfolio, which he will talk
about today. Hes also the author of Dont Get Voted off Real Estate Island as
well as another publication, Rental Management and Properties, which he
released in early 2009 to rave reviews.

As youll see as we get involved in this interview, Mike is a no-nonsense type

of guy and he has a no-nonsense approach to real estate. So, Mike, I want to
welcome you to the call and thank you for taking the time for this, because I
know you have a lot of information to share with our members.

Mike: Thanks for having me, Michael.

Michael: You bet. Well, lets get started. Tell the listeners what you did before you got
involved with real estate 28 years ago.

Mike: Michael, we actually passed the 29-year mark this past April. I went to a class
April 17th and 18th in 1982, so I believe I just passed the 29 year mark.

Prior to real estate, from time I was 16 to 21 years old I was a professional
skateboarder on the Pepsi Skateboard Team. Thats what I did to earn a living.
During that time when I was 18 California passed Proposition 13, which most
people know as the Property Tax Initiative.

That cut out summer school and my job on the Pepsi Skateboard team as we
did elementary and junior high school assemblies all week long. Then we did
big shows on the weekend at big events and that wiped out my Monday
through Friday income for that summer of 78.

I went to work for a guy that built houses. I got exposed to the construction
industry. I asked lots and lots of questions and I realized the guy was making
great money and enjoying what he was doing. Thats when the real estate bug
hit me, probably about 18 years old.

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I spent the next three years educating myself. I started going to the community
college, took all the real estate classes there, bought I think every book in the
bookstore that pertained to single-family houses and investing and thats
where I started.

Michael: Wow, 29 years ago.

Mike: Since that time, Im pretty sure 100% of the money thats come into my life and
thats been a lot of it has all been real-estate related.

Michael: I bet.

Do you focus on any particular niche about real estate investing or

do you just do all types of deals?

Talk about that for a minute.

Mike: Im very focused, Michael. I am a single family house guy. I have ventured out.
Ive had units in the past. Ive built lots of houses. Ive done some land
development. But I started in the single family house arena, Im most
comfortable there and thats where 100% of my business right now is.

I like the entry-level market. In my marketplace I skip the bottom 20%. I dont
like the ghetto and the war zones. I skip the top 40% and I work that lower
middle 40% as my sweet spot. I describe to my daughter, as were investing
together right now, I tell her that I am very comfortable being in the
kindergarten of real estate playing in the sandbox.

My definition of that is, entry-level housing in decent to good neighborhoods.

Its probably the least amount of risk and Im most comfortable there. I started
there, Im definitely going to end my career there and, as I explained to her,
when you pay $65,000 for a house its hard to lose $100,000.

It really limits your risk and were extremely picky on what we buy these days.
In the past I had a much bigger machine going. I think last year I passed the
1,200 house mark as far as acquisitions go in my buy-sell career, but weve
slowed things down. Im extremely picky and the goal right now is building up
Jordan, a real estate portfolio of good entry-level housing in great
neighborhoods.

Michael: I can tell youre very focused.

So your daughter works with you, how long has she been
investing?

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Mike: Almost two years now, Michael. We came up with a five-year plan for her.

About three years ago I had a decision to make. I had gotten everything I
came for and then some and I thought what does the rest of my life hold in
store. I was coming to work on a daily basis. The big why wasnt there, but I
had a secretary for 17 years, she needed gainful employment so I kept it
going.

I didnt have a lot of goals at that point. I told my daughter Id never push her
into real estate, but when she came around and expressed an interest I was
thrilled. I thought all right, it will give me another five years minimum. The goal
was to get her a dozen houses free and clear over the next five years and that
got me really excited and excited about coming to work every day.

Michael: Good. So shes doing deals as well thats awesome! So its a family business
then.

Mike: Yes. I think shes up to 11 or 12 houses. Id have to count them up. But, no,
shes learning the business. Shes yet to do a retail deal, but shes done quite
a few wholesale deals and kept the good stuff here. Im overseeing and
making sure everything stays on track.

Michael:
So shes primarily wholesaling to other investors and the good
ones she keeps in her portfolio?

Mike: Yes. The wholesale fees are Jordans and shes raising private money and
getting pretty good at it.

Michael: Wow. Well, she has a great mentor thats for sure.

Mike: Im a big fan of hers, Michael.

Michael: Yeah, 29 years in the business. Thats awesome and its awesome that she
took such an interest in your line of work.

Mike: Early on I told her to follow her heart and she investigated being a teacher and
being a vet. I suggested we set up several appointments with both of them and
the final two questions for each of those were: If you had to choose your
occupation over again would you choose what you chose? Then the last
question was: Were you satisfied with the pay scale at the end of your career?

With the answer she got she turned away from both of those.

Michael: Good for her thats awesome.

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Mike: When she did first show up in my office I figured Im going to get her hooked
on this business real quick, so her first job was depositing the rent checks and
making the mortgage payments. She realized it was about a 10 to one ratio of
checks coming in versus payments going out and just kept asking where does
all this extra money go? Id smile at her and say thats mine.

Michael: Thats nice that she picked up on that right away.

Mike: Yes. Then the first week in my office I had a good lead from an agent friend of
mine. I taught her how to do the homework on it and then we jumped in my
truck and went and looked at it and I went over the numbers.

At that time she had almost $6,000 of hard-earned savings. I went over the
numbers and she asked me if there was a chance she could get a piece of the
deal. I suggested that she put the $5,000 deposit down and assured her I
would do my best to protect that.

Two days later she got her $5,000 back and we split and $8,000 wholesale
fee. She immediately took the $4,000 and divided it by $11 an hour that I was
paying her and figured out how many hours she would have had to work to
make that check. I think she was hooked at that point.

Michael: Good for her. Thats great. And shes done like 11 deals in the last two years.

Mike: No. She has 11 or 12 rental houses that shes kept and weve probably done
at least a dozen wholesale deals that shes been involved in.

Now, I do a lot more volume than she does. We have her criteria in her
marketplace and yes, Im sure shes done at least a dozen wholesales and 11
or 12 keepers.

Michael: Good for her. So thats 23-24 deals in a couple of years. Thats a great start.

Mike: I told her the first day she was in here, I said, I have an ulterior motive. Im
going to put it on the table here. See, normally when kids turn 18-19 years old
they move out. Well, in Jordan and my case, Im the one that moved out.

We were living on the farm with her, 10 or 11 horses and she breeds and
shows Saint Bernards. Im from the city and I hung in there for about four years
and I moved out. I continued to pay the mortgage payments and I was paying
all of her expenses. She was in school at the time and I told her my goal was
to get her cash flow up to $3,500 a month net so that I could give myself a
$3,500 a month raise. Were almost there right now. Were about two-thirds of
the way there.

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Michael: Well, thats great.

It sounds like you do a lot of wholesaling, Mike?

Mike: Mostly. Im going to say 75% of what comes across my desk that I go to
escrow with gets wholesaled. In the past I used to do a lot more retail deals. I
think 1997 was the year I had 77 purchases and I retailed 36 of the houses.

Michael: Wow. Wait, 76 deals in one year?

Mike: Seventy-seven purchases in one year.

Michael: Wow.

Mike: That was the high water mark. And looking back, Michael, it was interesting,
because a year before that I did 52 and the year after that I did 54 and the net
amount of money was just about the same with that extra 20 something
houses thrown in there.

Michael: Interesting.

Mike: I concluded that more is not always better.

Michael: Right.

Mike: In that retail show that year I said Id done 36 retail houses. I dont ever want to
be anywhere near that amount again that Im happy with a dozen. Anywhere
from six to 12 retail houses a year is fine with me. I wholesale most of them
and cherry pick one to three good keeper houses.

Michael:
Do you primarily work in the southern California market or are you
all over California?

Mike: Oh no, Michael, my marketplace is very defined. Its 30 miles long, 20 miles
wide, kind of egg shaped. Id mentioned I skip the bottom 20% of that and the
top 40% of that, but its the same marketplace that I started in. Im very
comfortable with it. A few times Ive ventured out of my market. I dont like
doing that because I have lots of confidence when Im in my marketplace.

Michael: And you probably know it like the back of your hand. You know the
neighborhoods. You know the values. Im sure you probably have a great
investor buyers list that look to you to provide them with deals.

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Mike: Exactly. As a wholesaler thats my lifeline there. Its what I refer to as my shoe
salesman theory. I know what my buyers financial feet look like, so when a
deal comes across the desk I know whose foot its going on.

Michael: Thats cool. I like that.

How do you find most of your deals today? Do you have one or
two marketing strategies that you use?

Talk about how you find most of your wholesale deals.

Mike: I much prefer to be proactive rather than reactive in my marketing. With all the
bank repos and short sales out there, I still check first-day listings. Probably
one-third of my business right now is stuff from the MLS, the REOs and the
short sales, but thats reactive. Those leads come out. I pull out the good stuff.
I jump in my truck. Just like everybody else whos playing that game we go
look at it and you put your best foot forward.

Ive never liked competing like that. I have been a direct mailer for many, many
years. We typically get out between 300 to 500 mail pieces a week and Id say
two-thirds of the houses Ive bought in my entire buying career probably came
from direct mail. I much prefer to be in that arena where I dont have the
competition and all the pressure.

Michael: Ive been teaching this for years, but you find where you are theres not much
competition of yours that are using direct mail as their marketing technique.

Mike: These days, not as much as there was at the peak of the market. Back in the
90s I was one of the very few people doing direct mail and just dominated that
market. Early 2000 a lot more people started mailing.

Im constantly testing stuff. I mail to several different markets. Probably the

biggest market I mail to is the good old-fashioned absentee owner list. I do
scrutinize that list. Im looking for equity, length of ownership.

I have specific criteria when Im looking for houses. I dont like anything below
800 square feet. I mail to stuff over 1,800 square feet. I try and stay away from
pools and two-story houses. So I do have a pretty targeted list there.

I also mail to probates and I keep a list of abandoned properties. As Im out

looking at houses when I see private party stuff thats boarded up, abandoned
looking, I mail to them regularly. In the past Ive mailed to code enforcements.

Im always looking for a new list to mail to, but the old standby is absentee
owners because time and circumstances change all sellers. Ive been mailing
to the same people for 10 years and all of a sudden Ill get a call from them.

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Michael: Wow.

How often will you mail to the same person thats on your list?

Mike: Three to four times a year, typically, Michael.

Michael: Got it. So you just have a little machine going as far as your marketing goes.

You said you send out like 300 to 400 pieces a week, was that your
number?

Mike: Three hundred to 500. See, I have my marketplace broken down into 32
different farm areas, as I refer to them. Those farms are anywhere from 300 to
500 people, so depending on how big the farm is. Every Friday mail goes out
with the hopes that it gets delivered on Tuesday.

Michael:
Are you mailing a postcard or is it a letter?

Mike: I use a good old-fashion letter. Ive been a student of marketing longer than
Ive been a student of real estate. Im constantly fascinated how you can start
with a blank sheet of paper, put some words on it, the right words, move them
around, get them in the right order, get it in front of a complete stranger and
get them to take action.

So I love a good sales letter. Now, the whole key to that is getting the letter
opened; otherwise, the message inside means nothing.

Im a big fan of Gary Halbert. He passed away a couple of years ago. I

remember many years ago in one of his newsletters he said if you had to send
one letter to a complete stranger and if they didnt open that letter your life was
over, tell me what the envelope looks like. I thought, very important.

I like the oversized commemorative stamps. Always hand addressed. We use

blue ink. I read somewhere years ago blue ink represents trust. I thought good
enough for me, so we sign the letters in blue ink and address the envelopes in
blue ink.

Ive played with the return address. We have a handwritten live address, never
a P.O. Box, but for the last 10-12 years Ive been using the little cheesy-
looking Christmas card return address labels. We found a place on the Internet
that had different house pictures on them. We have one for each of the
seasons, so we change those about every three months. But I use the return
address label, hand addressed and a big stamp on it, so it does look very
friendly and personable.

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Michael: Thats awesome. Yeah, I love those. Many years ago I did some mailings with
those. Sometimes youll get those little stickers in the mail too as a
promotional. Theyll send you, I dont know, about a pack of 20 of them or so.
But, yeah, those look like something your aunt would send you.

Mike: Exactly.

Michael: Yeah, those work great and very inexpensive. So, yeah, you totally come in
with a personal look. It looks like someone sat down, wrote a letter, hand
addressed the envelope. A commemorative stamp, thats a good one. So,
yeah, youre doing all the right things.

Is it just a one-page letter thats on the inside or what is it?

Mike: Yes. Ive got it down to a one-page letter, Michael. In the past Ive had two-
page letters, but I have managed to fit everything on a one-page letter there.

Michael:
Can you talk a little bit about what your message is? What do you
say in this letter?

Mike: Im a big fan of USPs (Unique Selling Propositions), Michael, I realized once I
ran into competition Now, actually, what happened was a letter that was just
pulling like gangbusters, I used it for probably four years. It ended up in
somebodys seminar book that was taught locally, my letter. Then I started
receiving my own letter for my rental properties.

I returned the calls and it was just ugly. I thought, okay. How do I turn this
around and make lemonade out of lemons here? I came up with a new sales
letter that basically told my story, what I was out to accomplish, that my
background was a builder, that I had 1031 exchange money. I had a deadline.
I had a specific dollar amount.

I believe that letter had nine USPs in it and that became my all-time best
pulling letter. It had a strong call to action and what I was going to do for them
and how I was going to do it.

Michael:
What is your call to action, do you have them go to a website or do
you have them call a telephone number?

Mike: They call my office.

Now, Michael, I am probably one of the most computer-challenged people you

will ever meet. As I sit here with my feet on my desk, there is no computer on
my desk. Theres one on my secretarys desk. I spend less than 10 minutes a

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week at that computer. Its usually to retrieve emails. Anything that we need
done online I slide over to Jordan and she takes care of it.

Now, I do have a home computer, but Im constantly amazed at how many

people think that they have to have a computer to run a business. I just do it
old school. I like talking to a seller. Im a big fan of yellow tablets.

The problem I have with computers is, out of sight out of mind. Once it gets
filed away if its not a visual for me I forget all about it. I operate much better
from my desk without a computer on it.

Michael: Thats cool, yeah. Ive talked with many investors who do it your way. They just
use files and yellow pads.

Mike: I did a talk at a local club a little while back and I started off telling people what
we need. I said we need three things to do a real estate transaction. Can you
help me out here? First answer, computer. I got everything under the sun and I
thought people really complicate this business.

I said I hate to disappoint you, but listen closely. What we need to do a real
estate transaction is two human beings, one piece of property and with that
were out to accomplish one of two things -- a chunk of money or an income
stream. Thats it. Stop and absorb that. I really, really try and keep this
business simple, Michael.

Im a huge fan of education. I constantly read. Thats the one disciple thats
served me best over the years. I read at least an hour a day. I use a cooking
timer. I like the digital minutes and seconds model. Everywhere that I sit
theres a cooking timer and a financial calculator. Im looking at one on my
desk right now, but my three favorite places to read all have timers there. I
usually dont get my full hour in at one time. I get interrupted. Ill shut the thing
off, but before sundown I read.

I just love to read and these are self-imposed rules, so I dont have to read on
the weekend, but typically I read more on the weekend than I do all week
combined.

Michael: Thats cool. So you force yourself to read by using the timer.

Mike: Yes.

See, that timer has become just a life changer for me, because as human
beings we have a tendency to procrastinate. If you set that timer for five
minutes theres not a whole lot that you cant do for five minutes and one of
two things happens when it starts beeping after five minutes. Youve either hit
your stride and you turn it off or you got your five minutes in and youre done.

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Michael: I love it.

Mike: So yeah, I use that timer for all kinds of stuff, especially bill paying. Im thinking
okay, here we go. Were just going to do 15 minutes of bills.

Michael: Of bill you say?

Mike: Yeah, bills, when I have to pay the monthly bills.

Michael: Sure.

Mike: Its not one of my favorite things to do, but thats how I always get started on
the bill paying is with the cooking timer.

Michael: So you set it for 15 minutes. Okay, for the next 15 minutes Im paying bills and
once that 15 minutes dings thats it for now.

Mike: Or, Ill hit it again for another 15 minutes if I can hang in there.

Michael: Got it.

Mike: So, yeah, Im a big fan of cooking timers.

Michael: Thats awesome. I love it. Yeah, thats great. Well, I use a computer and I have
a timer on my computer. I do a lot of writing, so when I have some writing to do
I dont like to write too long at a time. I think you need to get away from it, so I
set my timer for 33 minutes and I just write for 33 minutes.

Once it goes off I get away from it for maybe five minutes, maybe 10 minutes if
Im really into it. I come back to it again and Ill set it for another 33 minutes.
Yeah, it just forces you to get it done. It really works, so you mail out these
letters, 300 to 500 a week. They call your office.

Are they going to a recorded message or does someone live

answer the phone?

Mike: If someone is in my office we answer the phone live. If nobody is here it goes
to voicemail. Over the years Ive had several voicemails. Mine have always
been short and sweet. Im pretty sure right now it says hi, this is Mike. Leave a
message the beep. Thanks. Thats it.

Im sure I lose some leads there, but Michael, with the volume of mail I do I
constantly have stuff on my desk, constantly have leads. When I wake up in
the morning I take inventory every morning. How many vacant houses do I
have to deal with right now? When I woke up this morning the answer was two.

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Ones rent ready and I have an appointment tonight and ones under
construction, a major fixer. Thats manageable.

I got several lead calls today. In fact, I had right two minutes before we were
supposed to talk today. I took the guys information down. He gave me the
property address and I thought, I remember him back in the beginning of the
year, early January. He finally got around to calling and I told him Id call him
back after 2:00 oclock here.

Michael: Wow. You dont have a problem with lead flow then. It sounds like you
constantly have leads coming in of prospects.

Mike: I do and Ive been around long enough to where I hang around several of the
high-volume people. In fact, usually at this time I would be over at the Bass
Pro Shop Restaurant in a mastermind group of 10 people that meet once a
month.

A friend of mine whos an appraiser for one of the biggest hard-money lenders
around here that caters to a lot investors, hes the appraiser so hes knows
whos doing what and a couple of years ago he picked out the high volume
people out that group and put together a club. We meet once a month and find
out whos doing what, whats working.

I am good friends with a lot of players in this business that do a lot more
houses than I do. I eat lunch with them regularly and Im constantly closing
people. I have just a big curiosity factor and I always tell them Im a bit of a
nosy parker. If I ask too many questions you can tell me its none of my
business, but they usually answer my questions.

I like to know what people are doing, where their leads are coming from and
more important than all of that, I mean once we get past the part of are you
making a lot money, are you having fun and enjoying your life. At this point
thats equally important to me, the quality of life.

I get a lot of proposals thrown at me and I think, the numbers sound good, this
looks good, but whats the day-to-day reality of this and how does it impact my
life. I love my life. I love the whole morning routine I go through. My office is
two doors away from my residence. Its my old residence, but nobody lives
here and I use an office and a shop here. Its fully furnished. When I have
company from out of town they get to stay in the house here, which is two
doors down the street from my house.

Michael: Perfect.

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Mike: So, I take about a 100 yard commute to go to work. I usually go home for lunch
if I dont have a lunch appointment. It works well for me. Good quality of life.

Michael: Thats what its all about. Thats why you are a real estate investor, about the
lifestyle. It sounds like youve built your business around the way you want to
live your life.

Mike: Michael, many years ago I had a dream and I just kept plugging away at that.
Ive had my ups and downs, good years and bad years, but there was a big
period of time, probably a 15-year period, where it was just head down and
charging. I finally came up for air and realized when I had enough parts and
pieces in place with a little bit of selling of some stuff, paying off some other
stuff, I was home free forever.

Thats what I set out to do early on. I had no idea it was going to take me as
many deals as it did to get where I wanted to be and analyzing the path I took
to get there I realized I had the wrong dance step. I was going three steps
forward and two back, three forward and two back.

If I could have grouped the two steps back I would have been there a long time
ago, but it took me quite some time to realize that the Laws of the Universe
apply to me too. I always thought I could be an exception to those and
expedite and take some shortcuts. Well, that applies to everybody.

Michael: Right. Well, another thing that impresses me about you too, Mike, and youve
talked about it a couple of times so far in this call, is that youre constantly
educating yourself. I mean youre reading every day at least an hour, reading
lots on weekends. So youre always learning, always educating yourself.

Then youre in these groups with other successful people in your area who
youre meeting with and youre constantly quizzing them and asking them and
talking with them and trying to learn from them, learn whats working.

It seems like youre a student of the business. Youre a student of marketing.

You mentioned Gary Halbert. It sounds like youve studied him. You just
continue to learn and continue to educate yourself about the business youre in
and also about marketing.

Mike: As long as Im in the game, Michael, I will be a student of the game. I typically
go to somewhere between eight and 12 seminars a year, usually two-three day
weekend stuff, occasionally a four or five day class, but since I got into this
business 10% of my income is set aside for education.

I dont come even close to spending that these days, but its always available if
there was something out there I wanted to spend on it. That will never change.
Ten percent is available to better me.

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Michael: Wow. Good for you thats awesome. Thats just great. Now, getting back to
your direct mail piece, when they call your office lets just say they left a
message.

Whats the next step, do you call them back or do you have
someone in your office call them back?

Mike: I always call them back. Depending on how much information they left,
Michael, if they left a name, an address, stuff like that, Im going to do all of my
research ahead of time. If its just Joe Smith called, got a letter, and if I cant
find property based on running his name Ill call him back and explain to him
that I mail to several neighborhoods.

Well start by grabbing the property address and then at that point if I have
office help Ill hand it to them to get the property profile in order. If not, I will just
continue the conversation and when I get off the phone Ill pull up all the
information.

I usually go look at most of my leads. Usually the first stop is Google Maps.
Well do the street drive by art and then well do the aerial view looking down
on. If it backs up to train tracks, a busy intersection, gas station, bad location
stuff, Im probably not going to go look at it at all. If its right in the middle of
residential everything, usually my next step is to get in my truck and go look at
it.

I know a lot of people disagree with that philosophy, but Im a very visual
person. I want to see the house. I want to see whats behind it, next door to it,
across the street from it. I usually just pull up in front of it and see how I feel
about it for starters.

Thats one of my favorite things to do. In the afternoon I typically go look at

houses. I know everybody has a two-hour peak performance period in their
day and as I get older mine has crept up a little bit. When I was in my 20s it
was 9:00 to 11:00, in my 30s it was 9:30 to 11:30 and in my 40s its been
10:00 to 12:00.

I like to do my decision making and important stuff from 10:00 to 12:00 and
then my least productive period is usually from 3:00 to 5:00 in the afternoon.
My mental computer is wearing out and thats when I like to go look at houses.
Now, if I do get a hot lead I will drop what Im doing and be at that house within
15 minutes.

Michael: Sure.

Mike: It all depends.

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Michael: We know a little bit about what youre looking for. You talked about it. You
dont want a house with a swimming pool. You like to stay away from two
stories. You have your certain square footage criteria. It sounds like youre
looking for good bread and butter homes.

Mike: I am and I do like the established neighborhoods. Im such a fan of tree-lined

streets, where the new subdivisions dont have the mature landscaping in
them. The challenge that comes with those pride-of-ownership tree-lined
streets is in my marketplace a lot of those neighborhoods were built in the 40s
and 50s, which is some of my favorite product to deal with, but there are a lot
of one-bathroom houses there.

I know for the bulk of the people out there the ideal rental house is a three
bedroom/two bath, 1,200 to 1,500 square feet. My best of the best A-
neighborhood stuff are two bedroom/one bath and three bedroom/one bath.
Its the lot that Im after, the premium lot, the half-acre lot, in the upscale
neighborhood with a two bedroom/one bath house on it.

I explain to people that its the dirt that goes up in value, the house wears out.
So Im big on premium locations. I realize the premium neighborhood with a
good school district, a one bathroom and people will overcome that to be in the
right neighborhood and get their kids in the right school.

Michael: Sure. You bet.

Mike: Not everything I do goes with the conventional logic there.

Michael: You primarily are mailing to absentee owners. You say you also mail to
probate lists, but primarily an absentee owner.

Are these free and clear absentee owners or do they have a certain
percentage of equity in the property?

Mike: The database that I use is the Win Data 2000 Program that First American
Solutions puts out and I think thats a CoreLogic product.

Michael: Right.

Mike: Thats what I use. First, I pull up all the criteria. It comes out single-line format
then I blow it up into full page and I go through them one at a time on the
computer for each of my farms. I usually dont mail the stuff thats been
purchased after 2003. We had the big run up in price then, but the latest farms
Ive done I am mailing to people who have purchased late 2008 and later than
that.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

I actually have picked up a couple of deals from people that have bought stuff
at the right price in the last few years, but I skip that big block in there from late
2003 to early 2008. Knowing what they paid for it and what its worth now
were going to have a challenge there.

Michael: Sure.

Mike: I dont want to waste my time if I dont have to. I spend about $1 a letter getting
them out, maybe a little more, so I am selective on who gets my letter.

Michael:
Tell me about the product that you get from CoreLogic, you say its
a CD?

Mike: Yes. I get two counties. I work the east end of Los Angeles County and all of
San Bernardino County. I used to get Riverside County, but Ive dropped that. I
wasnt using it much.

I have been told their superior product is RealQuest and they have been trying
for years and years to get me onto RealQuest. I told them it was hard enough
to figure out how to work the CD. I know how to do it. I wouldnt be surprised if
Im their last customer thats on the CD version of it, but I know how to do it
and Im very comfortable with it.

Michael: Yeah, we use CoreLogic as well. You can go in and enter the criteria, you
know the square footage, how many bedrooms, how many baths, year the
house was built, the range that it was purchased. Yeah, you can really target in
on the type of absentee owner that you want to mail to.

Mike: Exactly.

Michael:
Do you want them to have a certain percentage of equity if youre
going to mail to them?

Mike: Thats what Im hoping for, Michael, but a lot of the people that call me at this
point in the game are upside down and I dont know that until I get that phone
call from them. I think how much screening can I do? Now, Im sure I could
filter it out other ways. I know there are several other sources out there for the
data that Im after, but once again, I get enough leads and Im going to say one
out of four is probably upside down.

Now, my neighbor does run a short sale business. Hes a broker and I try and
refer those people over to him if theyre all interested. If hes able to do
something with it Ill get a check down the road possibly.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

I didnt want to spend too much time, too much homework. Id just as soon
have my phone ring and dismiss them when I find out theyre upside rather
than spend hours shifting and sorting through the list prior to that.

Michael: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mike: So, whatever is the most time effective.

Michael: Once you have a property that you like and youre able to buy for the price that
you want to buy for, you get it under contract.

Do you put down some type of deposit or do you let your buyer put
down the earnest money deposit?

How do you work that?

Mike: Ninety-nine point nine percent of the time, Michael, if Im dealing with the
private party arena there is no deposit, we just go straight to escrow. One out
of 50 times I may end up with a signed contract with a private party, for the
simple reason that most of the time theyre out of town or out of state.

We have a long-distance gap and if I was more computer efficient and they
were equal on the other end Im sure I could email them something or fax it to
them, but my attitude is once Ive got a seller and were in agreement over the
phone, after Ive submitted a written proposal I tell them my next step as soon
as I get off the phone Im going to call Raquel at escrow. Im going to get the
ball rolling. Shell get a hold of you within a half an hour.

I want to get the wheels of commerce rolling and other people involved and
then me step aside at that point. I cant imagine telling a seller hey, its great
that we agreed on everything, now go ahead and stick that signed contract in
the mail. A few days later when I get it back Ill call escrow and if youre still a
seller at that point well carry on with some business here.

As soon as somebody says yes Im going to escrow because, Michael, my

attitude is an unhappy seller prior to close of escrow is going to be an unhappy
seller after close of escrow. So if you want out of my deal up until the day
were closing, Id just as soon you get out if youre not happy.

Now, there are a couple exceptions to that rule. If the reason they want out is
somebody else has made them a higher offer, I may have a challenge with that
one, but even then depending on their circumstances.

I had an interesting conversation last week with an elderly man. I told him, I
said I realize youve only got wanting. You want the most you can. Those
circumstances, I encouraged him to take the other offer because it

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

substantially higher than mine. I was a little frustrated, but at the same time I
thought theres the human aspect of this too. I want to leave a trail of happy
sellers.

Michael: Tell me about your buyers list.

Are you doing any marketing to build your buyers list?

Mike: At this point, Michael, I still cant get past probably my top five buyers. They
are such varied buyers and they like different product, but just about
everything that comes across my desk one of the five is going to take it if the
math equation works.

They realize this whole real estate business first and foremost is the math
business. The numbers have to work. Ive got the key people over the years
that when they say yes their word is golden. We dont have to do contracts or
anything else. They know that if they stub their toe theyre going to be off my
list and I keep them supplied with deals.

Michael: Wow.

Mike: I do have a folder on my desk that says Wholesale Buyers. Thats emails and
faxes and business cards that people have given me. There are, Im guessing,
50 to 100 people in there. Ive told them until something changes you most
likely wont be getting a bunch of deals, but Ill take your information.

Actually, there are two buyers that probably take 80% of what comes across
my desk and theyre constantly leaning on me. In fact, when we finish up this
call this afternoon I have a deal that was supposed to close. I paid $65,000
and sold it to my friend Bobby for $72,000.

We just found out theres $3,600 in city liens, so Im going to propose that we
split it. That he pays $7,500 and I take $5,000 on my fee and we call it good
and move on to the next deal.

Michael: Very good.

So youre buying houses and between $60,000 and $100,000 is

your price?

Mike: It depends. Thats the east end of my marketplace when we get under that
$100,000 range. I have one of my favorite purchases in escrow right now that
was from a direct mail piece. It was actually not the house I mailed to it was a
different house. It was her mothers house. Im paying $147,000 for that house
and Im figuring its probably a $225,000 house. Im going to keep that. Its very

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

clean. Its in a neighborhood that I really like to keep stuff in and thats my
game plan.

Im going to say, Michael, I dont buy much stuff for more than $250,000 in this
market right now. If I bought something for $250,000 thats probably going to
be $350,000 to $500,000 value retail and I dont do a lot of those. Im going to
say my average purchase price is probably around $125,000, at least right
now and for the last 12 months.

Michael: It sounds like youre getting a really good buy on that one youre going to keep.

Mike: Yes, Im thrilled about that. I actually went back a second time and it was
cleaner looking the second time. The first time I saw it was in the rain. I
thought no, its a beautiful day. I want to go take a second look. I was actually
considering selling that and after my second time there I thought nope, Ill
forever remorse over that one.

Michael: Well, youre in a great, great position there, Mike. I mean you have primarily it
sounds like five investor buyers who are pretty much buying everything that
you find and, of course, you know exactly what it is that theyre looking for.

When you find a house its pretty much sold, because you know your buyers
so well. You know what theyre looking for, so its pretty much sold before you
even buy it.

Mike: Yes and, Michael, it varies. Between a fourth and a third of my business these
days are other peoples deals. Ive always been a middleman like a traffic cop
directing traffic.

A lot of people bring me deals that they have tied up and dont have a buyer
for. Ill analyze it, look at it and probably two-thirds of the time I can place that
with somebody. I just take my pen fee out of the middle, connect A to B and
get paid for it. I do a lot of traffic directly also.

Michael: Right. Its like youre in a tollbooth position.

Mike: Exactly.

Michael: You give them access to your buyers and you only do that with the sweet
deals that you know is a good deal for your buyers.

Mike: Actually, when somebody brings me a wholesale deal Ill gather all the
information. Theyre just giving me the information then Ill shop it to one of my
buyers. A lot of times if theyre both repeat people in my life Ill just connect the
two of them together, but they know protocol is dont go around me on the next
deal, bring it back to me.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Michael: Yeah, again, great position. I mean you have just five buyers primarily that
youre working with and theyre repeat buyers.

Mike: Over and over again.

Michael: Right. You just cant beat that.

Mike: That list has changed over the years. Im thinking back to 2005. There was a
guy that bought probably 80% of what I bought that year and hes not a buyer
right now, so things do change.

Michael:
Do you just pick up the phone and call them?

Like you said, you know which of your buyers wants you to decide that thats a
good one. So you just pick them up and say hey, (whatever his or her name is)
I have a deal I think youd be interested in?

Mike: Yes and I tell them in 24 hours I need to hear back from you. Silence means
no. If we get to 24 hours and I havent heard back from them Ill make a
second call to somebody else.

I try and refrain from calling two or three people as soon as I get a deal,
because what usually happens is those two or three people call back and say
Ill take that deal. I think ah, dang it, I did it again. I try and not create stress
and pressure in my life, so I like to shop stuff to one person at a time.

Michael:
You probably walk it and inspect before you put it under contract
is that correct?

Mike: Not usually, I look at it from the outside. Now, if its a vacant house oh, yeah,
Im going to do all the scrutiny I can on it. If its an occupied house Im going to
say about a third of the deals that I buy from absentee owners, their motivation
to get rid of it is the tenant. Quite often its a relative of some sort or its just a
tenant that hasnt worked out and they dont want the tenant to know that
theyre selling the house.

Michael: Right.

Mike: If theres a relative in the house I get excited about it, because Ive gotten huge
discounts. People wont boot relatives out, but they will call them up and say
hey, I sold the house. You have to move.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Probably a third of the houses that I buy Im not able to get inside. I will always
look at the outside as best I can. I usually show up in the middle of the day if
the people work. Ill just budget for no kitchen, no bathroom and a complete
remodel inside and 99% of the time Ive way over budged for it.

Michael: Oh, really?

Mike: Yes.

Michael: Goodness.

Do you have your own construction company or rehab company or

do you outsource that?

Mike: I no longer have anybody on payroll. I have two handymen that I use on a
regular basis and I have two general contractors that I use, one being my
younger brother and the other one was a tenant of mine for a dozen years. Ive
used Toddwere going on 20 years now.

Michael: Wow. So they know exactly how you like your bathrooms done, exactly how
you like

Mike: Yes, unless I tell them otherwise. I ask them, why are you asking me these
questions? We figured this out 10-15 years ago. You know what color the
house is going to be. You know what color the roof is going to be. You know
how the bathroom is going to be exactly. We always walk the jobs early on
before they start and I go over very specifically what I want done. I come up
with a bid price and I turn them loose.

Michael: Wow. Yes, you have really systematized your business, just cookie cutter. Like
you said, you have this certain type of roof that you like. You have these
certain colors that you like. Im sure you have this certain carpet that you like
and the sinks in the bathroom. Yeah, thats just great. Its perfect.

Mike: Yeah. Recently my brother was doing a job for me and he likes to use beige.
Oh, I forget the name of it. Its a beige color on the outside of the house and
that was a neighborhood that had several variations of that. Both sides of me
and across the street everybody was beige and I went with a Cape Code blue
that I use quite often with white trim and a black roof on that house. Actually, I
prefer that. He prefers the beige.

I was a little surprised. A few months ago I pulled up in front of a house that
had been Cape Code blue, white trim and black roof for 20 years. It was a
rental house and the tenants moved out. They have it rent ready and I drove
right past it. It was beige with white trim and black roof. Okay, you got me on
that one.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Michael: Thats funny.

My guess in just hearing how you talk about your operation Im

sure you primarily have one title company that you work with that
does all the closing for you?

Mike: Oh, yes, I refer to that as my team and you fight to use your team. I currently
have four deals going with my escrow company of choice and I had to tell
Raquel the other day when I opened the first escrow, it is so nice being back
here and doing business with this escrow company because the previous few
deals were bank repo stuff to where they chose the bank and the escrow
company and I got less than spectacular service and just an uphill battle.

When Im dealing with Raquel I know everything is going to go smooth.

Anything that comes up well discuss and over come it.

Michael: Right. And again, they know how you do business, how you like to do
business, thats just the way it is.

Mike: Absolutely. So yes, getting your team together, thats the five percent of the
population out there that I can communicate with, trust and do on-going
business without worrying about it.

Michael: Thats great.

Mike: Once you get your team together you have to take care of those people.
Absolutely treat them like gold.

Michael: Im sure you have some tips on that on what you do to treat your team like
gold.

Mike: My escrow lady, I will never ever push her, rush her, get upset with her. I make
sure that Im in a good mood when I call her. I make sure I try and have some
good humor for her. After getting through rough escrows I will get her dinner
gift certificates for a nice restaurant. Tell her to take her husband out to dinner.

In the past for years I dealt with a guy that I did lots of business with and she
just didnt like him. The guy was somewhat irritating, but I did lots of business
with him. One day I came up with an idea and I made 10, 10% premium
coupons, stapled them together, made a re-order form at the back.

I gave them to Raquel and said any time you have another escrow with Mike
that frustrates you, clip one of these on to my closing statement, add two-
three-four, clip the whole 10 pack on, double your fees, theres a re-order form,
but dont fire me as a client.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Michael: Thats awesome.

Mike: And shes never used one, but she understands where Im coming from. I told
her, I said, the best bargain I ever get in real estate is being able to deal with
you and you handle my affairs.

Michael: Right.

Mike: Theres never a question. I know she has my best interest at heart. Thats the
same way with my insurance man. I have had the same insurance man for 29
years. I love my title guy. I have a good team together.

Michael: Yes and, obviously, I know they all love working with you too. Again, like we
said at the beginning of the call, youre no-nonsense.

Mike: Right. I want to be the guy that they look forward to doing business with.

Michael: Right. Well, that you are. Thats great. Yeah, thats good stuff.

Do you go to the closings?

Mike: In California we dont go to closings. I get the call that were confirmed, were
recorded. Your closing statement is here, do you want me to mail it or are you
going to come in and pick it up. So we dont meet face to face on closings.

Michael:
Whats the population of the area that you work in?

Mike: Thats a good question, Michael. I havent the slightest idea. I know were
densely packed in Southern California. Its as competitive here as anywhere
Ive ever seen it. Im always amused when people tell me you cant do this in
southern California.

Michael: Right.

Mike: Their mind is already made up. If you think you can youre right and if you think
you cant youre right.

Michael: And you just keep chugging along. You have a consistent flow of deals. Youre
constantly closing deals and now your daughter is doing deals and every once
in a while youre oh, this one looks nice. This one is going into my portfolio.

Mike: Im trying to pass on the lessons Ive learned over the years to her and one of
them I tell her is you have to be consistent and very persistent. Most of the
stuff that goes on here is at about a sixth grade level.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

I try and just communicate with America at a sixth grade level. I dont want to
confuse things. I dont like to complicate things. We just do the same things
over and over and over and those disciples will get you everything you ever
wanted.

Michael: Sure.

Mike: Keep it simple.

Michael: You bet ya. I totally believe in that as well.

About the properties that are in your portfolio, do you self-manage

those or do you use a management company?

Mike: Oh no, I manage all of my stuff, Michael. Now, early on I came up with a theory
and looking back it was absolutely ridiculous, because my theory was if I lose
everything and dont make it in this business I want my rental properties close
to home so at least I could ride my bike to collect rents. It never dawned on me
if I lost everything I probably wouldnt have a bunch of rental houses.

All of my stuff is within 15 minutes of my office. I dont have to get on a freeway

to go to any of them. Over the years Ive upgraded everything. Im a huge fan
of upgrading. Take two C+ neighborhood houses, trade them into an A
neighborhood house. My end game was to end up with free and clear houses
in great neighborhoods that I didnt have to get on the freeway to go do
anything with.

Michael: There you go.

Mike: Thats worked out wonderful.

Michael:
How do you go about finding tenants for your houses?

Mike: At this point in the game we always put an ad on Craigslist. In fact, I have
three appointments tonight. Two of those appointments came from Craigslist
and one came from driving by and seeing the sign on the house. I always put a
sign on the house.

Over the years Ive learned to put it up high. I like to hang it on the fascia board
so somebody cant go out and scratch out my number or cut one of the
numbers to eliminate the competition. Ive had a lot of games played with signs
over the years, but I just put it up high, sign on the property and advertise in
Craigslist.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

I havent put an ad in the newspaper in probably three years now. The last
time I did pay for the newspaper ad we monitored it and we ended up with an
11 to one ratio of Craigslist ads versus the newspaper.

Michael: Right. Yeah, you cant beat Craigslist. Its just perfect for that.

Mike: I know there are other sites out there, but I get enough calls from Craigslist
and the sign on the property to where I havent had a problem.

Michael:
So, no problems finding tenants where you are?

Mike: No, its worked. Ive learned over the years that screening is everything. I
actually teach a rental property and management class and the lesson that Ive
learned over the years at this point in the game, Michael, everything that
comes out of the perspective tenants mouth is a lie until proven otherwise.

I take it all with a grain of salt. I dont believe a single word I hear. I scrutinize,
verify, check, double check. I would much rather, have a vacant house with no
rent coming in, then an occupied house with no rent coming in. So I do lots of
checking up and then final stop is a credit check then Ill rent to somebody.

Michael: There you go.

Mike: I do have strict criteria. As they call in Im always checking for the right number
of people. We have minimum housing standards and the Uniform Housing
Code that I have to abide by.

I want to know how long theyre going to stay. If theyre not willing to stay at
least two years I explain Im not in the hotel business. Good luck. Im not a fan
of pets. Now, I do love animals, but Ive never met a dog thats improved a
rental house of mine. I dont expect to meet that dog. Im not a fan of big dogs.

Im always amazed when I ask people when are they ready to move. I had a
call the other day and they said in July. I said do you realize May hasnt quite
got here yet. Yeah, they expected me to hold the house for them. I always ask
them, do you have all the moving money together?

I am not going to meet somebody at house to show them the house and give
them an application until I get the right answers.

Michael: Right.

Mike: Over the years I have just refined my technique on management.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Michael, thats all I ever set out for in this business. Goal number one early on
was to get enough quality rental income coming in so that I could live life on
my terms.

Michael: Right.

Mike: I realized after my skateboard career I was hopelessly unemployable. Unless I

had another career like that then Id better figure something out real quick.

Michael: Well, that you did.

Mike: Yes, its been a wonderful job for me.

Michael: Oh, its just impressive what youve done and the systems you have set up,
just how you operate your whole business. It truly is very, very simple. Youre
just doing good, simple stuff, but its repeatable. Youre doing the same thing
over and over again. You have people on your team that have been on your
team for many, many years. They know exactly how you like things done.

Yeah, its very impressive what youve done and what youve got and youre
living the life that you just love. You said that earlier.

Mike: Every morning I get to pick and choose how I lay out the day and that means
more, having my day-to-day freedom, than anything.

Michael: Sure.

Mike: If Im having a rough day and I want to take the afternoon off and go take a
nap or go do anything I want to do, I can clear it out and I think thats what I
worked for.

Michael: You bet. Well, Mike, you have shared some great information today. This was
really a good call. I know a lot of the people listening to this are going to want
more information about you and how they can learn about you.

You have a website that has some of your resources, is that

correct? Would you talk a little bit about that?

Mike: Sure. My website is MikeCantu.com. Michael, I said Im not an Internet person.

It probably would get the award for the worst looking website out there. The
whole reason its there is to sell my two courses.

The first course is Dont Get Voted off Real Estate Island: Surviving and
Prospering in Another Down Market. Thats everything Ive done in my 29
years as a full-time real estate entrepreneur thats made money and worked
and what I continue to use today. I held nothing back there. Its actually the

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

roadmap that Jordan and I are using to create her financial freedom. She is in
that book almost every single day.

The other side of the coin is my Renal Property and Management Course that
covers everything from the thought of having a rental house to attitudes, game
plans, strategies, documents, every bit of that rental business.

Now, Im a firm believer in the attitude part of the buy-sell business and the
buy-keep business. Without the right attitude youd better go get a job,
because this whole business is attitude first and foremost.

On both of those courses I start the course with an attitude chapter and I end
them with an attitude chapter. Just empowering things to tell yourself and get
your head on straight to make this stuff work.

Michael: Great.

Mike: Those courses are $397 a piece. Just go visit it. If they have any questions
they can call me.

Now, they do have a lifetime money back guarantee. Ive never had a return of
anything Ive ever sold. My attitude is no student left behind. It comes with
follow-up questions and everything else.

So if anybody decides to order Im here to answer the questions and help. I

realize thats part of giving back and karma and everything else. I had good
help early on and continue to seek out good help.

Probably one of the most satisfying things in my world, Michael, is when I get a
thank you card from somebody. I got them over a hump and theyre on their
way.

Michael: How about that. Well, again, everyone thats listening to this, you should
definitely go to Mikes site MikeCantu.com. Check out those resources. I mean
the guy has been doing this for 29 years now and as you can tell from this call
he has some really good systems and techniques in place and has a lot to
teach.

Mike, before we hang up, are there any last words that you want to
say before we run out of time?

Mike: Michael, I actually wrote two paragraphs here in anticipation of this. Im going
to have to read them, but if you dont mind I have some good advice.

Michael: Love to hear it.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Mike: I titled those pages; Getting Financially Free in Todays Market.

What exactly is it that youre planning on accomplishing in 2011 and beyond?

Youve got to think it through, put your plan in writing and be very clear.
Tomorrows future is your choice today. You get to decide. The world is
indifferent. We can have whatever we choose, but youve got to put the plan in
writing then constantly adjust, review, monitor the progress and its equally
important to know what doesnt work.

We all live or die on our cash flow; its cash flow and working capital that will
keep you in the game. Its passive income that will set you free. Passive
income is not created passively. Creating passive income requires hard work,
knowledge, a well thought out business plan and getting there with little or no
effort, most likely wont happen. If an income stream requires your time its not
passive.

You want to keep a low overhead. Control of expenses is one of the keys to
success or failure. Lifestyle and overhead took more people down than
anything else when the market changed and continues to do so.

You want to continue your education. Good education is the highest yielding
investment you can make if applied. When you work on a job you get paid
money. When you work hard on yourself you get paid a fortune.

You want to read every day. The person who doesnt read is no better off than
the person who cant read.

The bubble riders are in trouble. How much did they invest in themselves? You
want to make it a goal to set aside 10% to build a better you and dont ever
stop learning.

Avoid negative cash flow like the plague. The number one reason people go
broke is because they borrow money and cant pay it back. Aggressively get
rid of all personal debt. The goal is to get free and stay free.

The one thing that wont change is change. The real estate market is always
changing. Expect lots more of the same. Real estate is a moving target. Every
year theres a different playing field, different rules and numbers, but theres
always a profitable game to play.

Make money with as few moving parts as possible. Have a simple plan;
simple, but not easy. There are two targets of opportunity, buy and sell and
buy and keep. Dont complicate things. Keep it simple.

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 REI Marketing Club of the Month Interview
With Michael Cantu

Remember, there are only three things we need to make a deal, two humans
and one property. Were out to accomplish one of two things a chunk of
money, a good income stream. Thats it. Keep it simply, entry-level housing in
good neighborhoods.

Be a picky buyer. Go after a well-defined product in a specific neighborhood.

Go after premium lot properties and good houses. Buy and hold all of the good
stuff you can that cash flows and remember that junker houses attract junker
tenants.

Youve got to have access to private money. You will not become wealthy
without leverage. Just keep asking. Theres lots of private money out there. Its
up to you to find it.

You want to get the houses, get rid of the debt, get them free and clear. For
most people 10 houses will do the job nicely. Have a written detailed plan on
how its going to be done and, most important, get your hook in the water. Its
show time right now.

Look for the deals. Its a lot of work. Theres no substitute for hard work.
Theres no magic pill. The final piece of the miracle process is to do the work.
Remember, doing is more important than doing well and if you search you will
find, but finding is reserved for the searchers and, most importantly, keep
trying until you get what you came for.

On that note, I wish everyone the absolute best of luck.

Michael: That was great. That is awesome. Everyone should go back, rewind and listen
to that again. Thats some great advice there, so succinct.

Mike: That was my one-page summary.

Michael: Yeah, thats great stuff. Thats awesome. Well, look, we are so out of time.
Thanks again for your time, Mike. Hopefully, some time down the road we can
revisit and do another interview, because you have a lot of great information to
share. We certainly appreciate it.

Mike: Id love to do that, Michael. I look forward to it and I had a good time today.

Michael: You bet. Everyone go check out his site at MikeCantu.com. Thank you, Mike,
and thanks for everyone who listened in.

Mike: Okay, bye-bye.

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