National integration: reality and

impedimenta

Samir Morcos:

When I received the invitation of this conference I contemplated the term

of (ideological coexistence) which is the title of the conference.

I contemplated it in its cultural and social parts, and I felt that this term is
maybe closer than (coexistence).

the matter is not just an expression or term instead of another expression

or term, it is related to the reality which is apply to the meaning of the
term or not; I want to add that the content and the meaning of
(coexistence) maybe close or apply to other communities, including the
Lebanese society for example, and I was able to look deeply in the
Lebanese case because of my work conditions which imposed me to visit
Lebanon frequently for more than seven continuous years.

The term of (common coexistence) is apply to the Lebanese case which

does not apply to the Egyptian case or even gets close of it.

The Lebanese society includes eighteen sects between its corners, and has
a unique case of intersections among doctrine, community, family and
wealth ... etc,, in other words that there is _ for example_ tripolian Sunni
families belong to Tripoli, and other beirutian Sunni families belong to
the capital Beirut, and the Shiites living in the south, and Druze are with
the Maronites in the mountain, and the Greek orthodox are in a case of
the center between the western and eastern Beirut, then famous families
of each community, such as the families of Gemayel and Shimon between
the Maronites, and Hariri and Hoss between

Thus, we find ourselves in the Lebanese case in front of composition of

highly complex; despite of appearance of a division seems simple.

The Iraqi situation is also similar to the Lebanese case to some extent,
and it is closer to the concept of common coexistence , Iraq is actually
divided now to main areas, Kurds, Sunnis, Shiites, and each region
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includes the wealth of almost its own, and there is intersections of
sectarian ethnic, Sunni Kurds, Sunni Arabs, and Sunni Turkmen.

The Egyptian case is radically different form this Lebanese reality, and
the Iraqi reality, we does not have any differences only one difference is
the difference of religious, and there for it does not true that to talking
here about coexistence, but the integration, the national community we
have is made up of only Egyptians, and as Dr.Asim noted shortly before,
the most of Egyptian Muslims now were Christians and turned into Islam
and including means and confirms that we, Muslims and Christians, and
despite the difference of religious, we all belong to one ethnic origin, and
therefore we have to pause and ask ourselves: joint living or national
integration between this group of the one ethnic origin?

When the ottomans came to Egypt, and also Dr.Asim touched this issue
but I will discuss it in other term, there is a debate about if they had come
as invaders, or conquerors, but the fact that all Egyptians was imposed on
them to pay money to the ottoman empire, they called it in the case of
Muslims (abscess) and in the case of Christians (tribute) but the all pay,
the sense that the compatibility of religious between the Egyptian
Muslim's and Islamic Caliphate State did not result in the access of
Egyptian Muslim any privileges, And even in the moral aspect the
Ottomans was dealing with the Egyptians, all Egyptians very Loftily
without distinction between Egyptian Muslim and Egyptian Christian,
common suffering of all Egyptians, have joined them, made them in the
case of the integration.

Egypt had arisen to riparian State, a state with geographical overlap, a

State with a common culture, etc, and these are the characteristics of the
basic features of Egypt, the State and society.

What does it mean that Egypt is a riparian State? Means that the river
(Nile) is the main source of life, and the river needs to adjust the central
state should be the only controller the river, and so maybe the Nile River
and the High Dam, the only thing that cannot be privatized, because it is
impossible to adjust, but centrally.

What does it mean geographical overlap? it mean that it did not happen at
all and throughout history that Egypt had areas of different racial or

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ethnic nature, not in Egypt area residents have a different color, a
different nature or belong to a different race from the other area.

And then there is joint community-based culture, which exceed the limits
of Christian and Muslim, as this is the only thing different in Egypt,
Muslims and Christians apply the same social system, and I think we all
know the slogan of ( our land is not given to strangers
).

All Egyptian families Muslims or Christians can give the girl or the
woman money or gold or otherwise, except land, women are not given a
land even if she married a strange man of the family and take the land.
This is indeed a very important one expression of societal and cultural
system includes the whole society, Muslims and Christians. This one
cultural system can also be found in the idea of partisanship and human
rights conglomerates, which have emerged, especially in the modern
state, and can touch it clearly in the national Renaissance periods, with
Muhammad Ali and the 1919 revolution and the revolution of July, where
you find that all Egyptians cooperate with each other horizontally,
meaning that the poor together, and the middle class together, regardless
of religion. (jamaia) system among workers in an organization or a
company is a real permanent manifestation of the idea of this solidarity
horizontal, where You find the officials (participate in a Jamaia* "an
Egyptian social way of saving money in which the participants pay a
fixed amount of money every month, the collected amount of money is
given to the first participant, who is in a bad need for money, also without
regard to religion difference. This is a public community culture system
connects all the Egyptians at a central state with a geographical overlap.

I Liked it very much; an expression said by Abdullah Nadeem , when he

founded the Islamic Charitable Society in 1879,in the last days of the
Khedive Ismail life , some people asked him why do you establishes an
Association ?

He said to them (for the league of the poor), and I am, as you know is
very interested in the subject of citizenship, and I find in the response of
Abdullah Nadim one of the very advanced ideas on the subject of
citizenship, the league defined by Ibn Khaldun as the assembly, people
gathered, by virtue of blood kinship, and by virtue of nearly clan, and

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virtue of nearly tribe, etc,. These are all forms of belonging that call
affiliations primary or primitive , which is supposed to combine to pour
into a larger and wider league whenever the society progresses , and
through a horizontal league gathering clans and tribes under the umbrella
of poverty where there is no room to a familial competition on anything.

But interdependence and a convergence in the face of the injustice, which

includes everyone, and this is a very important issue and I think that the
very important part of today is our borrow of the term national
integration or co-existence, is back to back, and the emergence of a sub-
way in nature, while the state list and home exists, but any of them started
unable to absorb this fanaticism, not to say cancel this fanaticism,
because it is impossible to be abolished, as well as it is not required at all,
but only the homeland must accommodate all affiliations, as wider base
and broader affiliation. And when each of these sub-Views one interest in
the face of injustice, Here happen interdependence and solidarity
horizontal, not vertical, which divides Egypt to Christians and Muslims,
to the families and clans and tribes.

Go back again to the question: how can we recover the case of

coexistence as the title says conference or National merger -as I prefers ,
how reminiscing clusters and horizontal partisanship as it was manifested
through the history of Egypt? Here we have to remember the features of
the Egyptian case , the central state , the state river , the country with the
geographical overlap and shared community culture , we have to
remember how the General Civil work was combines all Egyptians
without stopping or even remember the religious difference.

Started long ago an article about how to renew the Egyptian civil, I have
noticed, you may have noticed too, we are celebrating during these years
by more than a percentage, 100 years Ahli Club, 100 years the Egyptian
University, the film industry, the establishment of the Coptic Museum,
the emergence of political parties in Egypt, after a short period the
revolution of 1919 and the drafting of the first Egyptian Constitution..
Etc. And it is certainly not a coincidence that these entities Egyptian civil
founded at one time almost a century ago.

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But that was an expression of a state of national and civic general, a
civilian in the sense that there is a larger circle gathers all Egyptians,
regardless of the differences among them. This is one of the most
prominent and the most important manifestations of citizenship, so that
citizenship is a dynamic framework of the Whole ,it is the movement of
people on the ground , when we move all within the framework of the
national community , and each of us in his field and in his constituency ,
this leads to a state of national integration , or coexistence , which cannot
be achieved if we move all of us in isolation , a movement in an isolated
islands from each other , Integration or coexistence achieved only in a
dynamic framework of the Whole , which combines all Egyptians in a
historic moment for the progress of Egypt in various fields. So I think it is
very important to distinguish between the personal and private domain of
the political and public sphere the other hand, the first ( personal ) is the
movement of a person under his personal circle , then the private sphere
and that this person is a Christian for example the church is his circle
movement, or Muslim so the mosque is his circle movement, and limited
to movement within this private sphere has led to the emergence of
concepts and terminology as never before (I am alone with myself ) and
(I don't care for anybody ) and other terms of these days , while the
second ( the public or political domain) it is the circle where all Egyptians
meet. Naturally, it is not required nor true to cancel the Special circle, but
we have to move together from the frame or the private sphere to the
public sphere, and where we are now, I mean this conference, is a model
of the movement of the private frame to the public one.

But we must also confess that there are barriers and obstacles to the
achievement of national integration , or coexistence , including what
might be called the case of overtaking, and it is the case that start by
regression of all of us inside his the small sub - constituency , ruling
denying the other hand , live case juxtaposition , next to each other but
without merging or even interacting, on the contrary we get into an
argument , where each of us in relationships, everyone compares himself
to others, feeling that he is better than them . And drown in our Privacy
identities and get into a feud with the other. Here begins each group , and
this is the other disabilities or other obstacle in the way of achieving the
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state of national integration , begin each group in the formatting and
writing it's independent history which is different from the other, and
when there is any nation has more than one history they would be on its
way to the abyss. In France, for example, and to explain the idea even
more, no one from the extreme right to the extreme left is different to that
of the French Revolution was an important turning point not only on the
level of France, but at the level of the world, yes, criticize or criticize
some aspects, but nobody argue about its importance, compared to what
happens here in Egypt? Each group has its own history, rejects and denies
any other history, means we have more than one memory and thus more
than one identity. This is a matter some researchers call (history montage)
in the language of the people of the cinema, I mean that every group pick
up from the history which is consistent with its inclinations and
orientations, and considers that this is the history of Egypt.

One of the Constraints also the economic reality of the rentier economy
in which we live now phase. And history tells us that there is a
conditional relationship and dialectic between cases of merger witnessed
by Egypt of whatever nature or duration, between moments of
advancement of the national mean (when Egypt restores its old position),
we will never see the state of fragmentation we witness now.
.

And of these constraints are also the external perception of the shape of
the region in the next stage , and on the subject of external perception or
Foreign charts there are two schools , one blames all the blame on the
schemes and plots of Foreign Affairs, and the other stands at the internal
factors, and says that the home is the foundation , but there is another
school I believe in , or belong to , and are telling about a state of the
interaction between inside and outside , so we must first recognize that
we have here in Egypt factors and elements exploited by the abroad and
build on them his plans and perceptions of the region. The most
dangerous thing in these perceptions and charts is that the nation-state
nationalism of the border clear finished its role, and when there is a talk
about a national state , Egypt will be in the heart of it , Dr. Asim now
talking about the Gulf who boarded in 1971 , while Egypt's centralized
state nationalism of the days of the Pharaohs, play now , as is evident on
the ethnic divisions and sectarianism , and this is what is happening in
Iraq and in Lebanon and in the Sudan and in Palestine, and I imagine that
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the seen in Egypt between the period and other religious and sectarian
tensions, not far from the these perceptions , charts, and the required is
not only a religious divisions , Christians and Muslims , but this
fragmentation is required from within religions , between their respective
communities.

Finally, there is a beautiful Collection of short stories for the writer

Naguib Mahfouz called the morning of Roses, includes collection of short
stories , including a story about the street , which Naguib Mahfouz
moved to in the Abbasia ,And it has housed 15 varied families, from the
secular to (wafdy) *"referring to an Egyptian political party called El-
Wafd", and from royal to Turkish origin to rustic , but this street was able
to absorb all this diversity , and I think that this is Egypt; a beautiful
diverse Bouquet, able to absorb all of its components whenever it restores
its old position economically , culturally and socially.

And Rose's morning.

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 Visions and views
Sheikh Mohammed Abu Zaid : I have unfaithful to him to end and defend
him to the end, and the other opinion was of the same position , but when
the ethics and ideals missed, and we saw the pens which were bought ,
and the principles that a simple comment , firstly Dr. Asim, showed us in
a hurry that there has always been the opinion and the other opinion,
Without any intolerance or insults or slander or libel, and I think we
reaches what we in now just when there no ethics, ideals and values
anymore , there was a tool for dialogue and sincerity of opinion, even if a
person stuck in his opinion he is are sold for a few dollars , as they say ,
we saw who wound and , . And, because it is not there are a certain
manners.

As for the second point: Why the culture of coexistence? If we are talking
about coexistence, so we are coexisting with each other, and the history
says this, but got the difference in cultures when we allow the West and
imported our culture from it, and we found the tone of Expatriate Copts,
for example, and we found that there are those who listen to them, culture
Interior influenced, and from here were the differences in cultures. Some
speakers talked about the media that it depicts a well or depicted as well,
but there is on the other side, the media portrays Muslim as a traitor to the
system or of the rulers or of the revolution, and we have also seen that
there is a Christian for example, supports campaigner for the intervention
of the church and find protection, these are all media matters, but in the
end we must go back to the ethics, values and ideals.

Also there are some hardliners who describe the Copts as such and such,
and in the other hand there is also a channel in Lebanon called (Al Hayat)
offers a priest (speaks his mind). The problem is the problem of ethics,
values, principles, dialogue and acceptance of others and this confirms
the role of the mosque and the church's role and the role of the university
and the Intellectuals have a very large role.

Dr. Bahia Shaheen: I thank Prof. Dr. Asim for this important historical
vision. And I want to shed light on the historical experience of the culture
of co - existence before there is Christian and Muslim at all prehistoric on
the land of Alexandria, a city founded by Greek civilization, which
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happened in the territory of coexistence joint venture between the
Egyptian pharaohs, and foreigners coming to them who are the Greeks, it
was a pre-Christian and pre - Islamic of course. And this co-existence has
continued between the Egyptians and the Greeks for three centuries with
only one key represents in the Declaration of Alexander of his very deep
respect for the religion of the ancient Egyptians. And may the gods of
Egypt were different from the Greek gods ,so Alexander invented a (god)
in common between them, and brought on the Egyptians in leadership
positions , and they engaged in the army, and achieved with the Roman
army victories which strengthened their position , then melted everyone
together in the same society despite the multiplicity of nationalities , so
that their famous queens is ( Cleopatra) the West is still believed until
now that she is Pharaonic , but she is really not Pharaonic , but this
mistake , which the West make refers to how much was national
integration deeply this merger , which talked about Mr. Samir Mark got
on the land of Alexandria in an important historical experience before
there were a Muslim and a Christian . And I imagine that we actually
need to a merge ring culture and not only co-existence, we first need to
re- consider the value of belonging in order to achieve the merging.

Rev. Raafat Raouf : I'm already very happy with this modern and upscale
great for engineer Samir Morcos and d . Asim ElDesoki . And I think as
engineer Samir said that the Egyptian situation distinct what proves that
is, despite everything that faced Egypt in the history of the serious
constraints of coexistence , but it remained stable , and stability factors
have always been the stronger than disintegration factors , unlike many
other countries.

I read an article for Dr. Gaber Asfour, in Al-Ahram entitled

underdevelopment culture , in which he said that past reference we have
is authentic reference in our lives, we measure on it all our lives matters ,
which agrees with the this past ion reference is true and what does not
agree with them we consider it to be a mistake. And I think that we must
free ourselves from this reference and look forward rather than back to
the past.

Engineer Samir Morcos talked about (horizontal and coalitions leagues),

and also (identities that are hostile to assimilation), I wish if he explained

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to us more on this fascinating and important expressions. Also, Dr. Asim
talked about (the phenomenon of Alhzbna) and how the parties have
merely extras in the scene, while one party is the one who does it all, and
I wanted to hear from him how there could be a real role for the parties,
and how we can create a state of awareness in the Egyptian street beyond
the case of hearing or indoctrination which we are suffering.

Dr. Murad Lutfi Thabet: We are still looking for citizenship, and ignore
or do not give enough attention to two fundamental problems, which are
the key to solving all our problems, including citizenship. I mean the
problem of poverty and the problem of education, according to official
statistics, there are 45 million Egyptians are below the poverty line, and
35 % of Egyptians are illiterate. How do we address these citizenship and
are either they do not find a living or illiterate? Naturally that these will
follow and go behind each one who lays out an amount of money for
them, in upper Egypt you can lease a professional killer for fifty pounds
, kill and expose himself to hang for fifty pounds! ! . Firstly, we must
address to solve these two problems then think about co-existence and
citizenship.

A.Hilmi Elnamnam: i completely agree with the words of Dr. Asim,

regarding as the entry of (Salieem the first) to Egypt, I've had an invader
and occupier and not a conqueror, and the Ottoman occupation was one
of the worst occupations which Egypt suffered throughout history. And I
join my dear friend Samir in his fear of the confessional state, and I think
we're really on the state sponsor's denominational and sectarian state. And
let me comment on two words : initial comments session President Dr.
Fathi on Mr. Samir talk about the situation in Iraq and the case of
Lebanon , where dr. Fathi said that the Egyptian case distinct and unique ,
and in fact I am deeply concerned by this talk, Egypt will be inheritance ,
as happened in Syria, someone says that Egypt (is different) , Egypt will
witness the moment as it is happening in Lebanon , you hear Who says
neither Egypt (is different), No, sir, We are not (is different), Egyptian
history says that the Egyptians while explode are the ugliest million times
in the violence and killings , Egypt has seen in its history massacres
sectarian many, and go back to Ghiberti and the son of menopause to
make sure of this. The second word is what was said of the hall on the
role of the mosque and the church, as well as education in common. I'm
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sure that the mosque is not a common element of coexistence , the Friday
sermon as I hear is a common element to alienate , and I doubt that the
church can be a common element of coexistence , the Egyptian religious
establishment plays a repulsive role .

there is a crisis in the education that Christian students in the fourth and
fifth primary Imposing on them to memories some verses from the Holy
Quran, and when the minister intervent, he just Saied to teachers (Do not
overwhelmed them), and he did not issue any decision, moreover that he
faced an examination in the parliament from a member belongs to
Muslim brotherhood tells him "no, they must memorize Quran to
strengthen the Arabic language!!, what do you call this?? I imagine that
the real crisis is not in education either houses of worship , but it is
essentially the Egyptian state crisis, historically when the Egyptian state
lose its national project it become a state of tyranny, shed corruption and
banditry , and in this case the state becomes an alienating element. In
recent Shura Council elections the National Party did not nominate any
Christians, and one woman was nominated in the New Valley, and when
asked about the reasons for this distinction the National Party Secretary -
General response was that: I am not ready to lose two and three chairs !!

And this word confirms that as long as we have the NDP and the Muslim
Brotherhood behind us say "peace upon our prophet Mohammed" and do
not talk about coexistence because there is no country in the first place.

Mr. Nabil Khalil: I think the problem is that the middle class has
disappeared, replaced by the owners of the money arriving by money
from the Gulf to control thought, and I think that the Government is
happy with it and help it. The second thing is the lack of belonging to
Egypt, the media plays a negative role in the exclusion of people and
dilute belonging, and interested in everything including the interpretation
of dreams, but the love of the motherland, defend it and belonging to it.

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