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-- peP~-~-"L~"aeL~I~LCR~~
8TXmAW1CWmwcw or
HEARI NGS
W6Wu.%V. C.
July 16p 1954
IR 9533
S 3612
Telephones:
AWDISON RWPORIN COMARY NA 8-3406
Ninth S
30Was ,
N. ., 8-3407
Wuspraglost 4. D, C.r~ B-3408
8-3409
~~~'~at~2;i~"~'-~i~i4Ba~h~-~a~
I
TAB LE OF C O N T F N T S
Iqw
Statnnent of;
.im Redfishb 60
Pete;' Looktnghorse 67
Edward Loone 89
--- 00)-----
a f
Ir rFD
53
n HR 9533 - S. 3612
House of Representatives,
Washington, D. C,
E. Y, Berry, presiding.
I HB
^nia**IsiB^ SB8fi3^ ^
N10ll ZM
I
I I
Ill L I
54
i
Rock Reservation.
please.
fact that you had just gotten in, that yu had not had an
Have you had a chance to s;o over this with the other
came.
Testified yesterday?
I II mm1 I I
55
that correct?
Mr. Abbott. What mongh o the year was it? Do you knoj
election.
true?
" I | ' I
i I
56
that our lawyer wa-n not approved at that time. We had quite
several months.
thirteen months until October 1951 during which you were the
Mr. Abbott. Could you state at this time what was done
H' I -
M a 57
or, Mr. Berry, wasn't that the time when we were here with
our delegation?
eleven-month period are you saying you had not made substan-
1 Ij I i j9111S B "
I
58
with settlement.
haps, in a position to get off the ground the action that would,
at that time.
Thank you.
Engineers?
council, but that was the first one and, of course, I waa not
and so forth.
vj~ersp~~o
59
Indian Bureau was there with all their machinery and apparatus
_ and they took down records, but I have never seen those records.
it with them.
not?
you were the one that sent a telegram, you remember, to the
contract.
Reservation.
mmmmm m7777 __
I I I 1 6 I. I
60
have a chair.
Dakota?
Bureau because we were under the programs tLe Indian Bureau was
operating on for twenty years and never get nowhere; they are
still in debt.
l I mmalmoma I
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61
debt like we are now today. The people that own the land
are the ones that donut want it and people don't want it
that way?
'e pretty nearly all my life, and you know it, yourself. I did
somewhere, but there are too many regulations, they have tied
us up.
_~~~~~ I~l~wA"u
IPp IBmo~ell~rei~~a~osoir
~~ 1'"""""""
62
r to Josephine Kelly.
Af1'
Representative Berry. Are there any questions?
AA Mr. Redfish, you state that you do not want any more
weeks ago, and the state was willing to loan out money to N:M.
Indian so they have them on their feet, but the Indian Bureau
-do not want that because if anybody start on that, you know
want that?
any good.
that?
1 iri ii ~-p I
i .1 I I
64
You can ask Mr. Spencer there. Most of them are on the black
list.
Mr. Abbott. You are not too happy with the way the Indi..
of 19533
Mr. Abbott. But when you sp:,ak for those people you
say that you are speaking for the Bullhead District. Do you
feol that you speak for all 110 people who voted in that
that voted.
I I
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65
Mr. Abbott. You are speaking for the people of the Bul:
head District?
election?
You are here today to say that you speak for the Bullhead
District?
Mr. Redlish. Ye ;.
Mr. Abbott. Now, the 110 people who voted for the
Would you say at this time that you speak for the thirty,
^^- M-
- -- ^-llm llr~rllnilliiiil-- -*-- --- sill l u rl .. I llli I .. .1r i...
-~~-.11 .- .. 1 1. -i -1... .1.11111.
,. 1 - -~- -- .t- -
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66
now due to the fact that he promised them a per capita pay-
ment.
of the record: I have known Mr. Redfish for a good many years.
talking about you. I would like to find out who told you that.
Reservation?
ahead, Pete?
change.
reimbursement?
off to school. Well, my father did not have the fund for me
grade and you are a graduate. You don't need any more school.
and help."
, ii i- -- .
-- ifct
a i -- MmIwIC I-m mw .-^ *- nwl- n u I n| i ini **nAb M
viimasf f !
69
Let us put it aside and let the state taL; over next.
what I meant, let the state take over the funds and run it
next.
the federal jurisdiction off and lot the state handle it.
approving a bill to pay the Standii.g Rock Tribe for the value
of the land and then in turn that amount being paid out in
a per capita payment and that would be all you would get?
brother.
off the reservation too long and I was not entitled to it.
state says, "No, you are with the government. There are
statement?
tion program?
lUNIONS
I I
71
Indians.
been able to move off the reservation, many of them young GIS
who wanted to, and to take up jobs in cities where they earn
good pay, they don ' t have to, as they told us, put up with the
Indian Bureau, and they are quite happy where they are.
the whole picture of the Navajo for some seventy thousand India,;
<
has greatly changed.
bureau politics will not lot tho program work. Is that what
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72
right?
where if you do not like the rascals you vote to throw the
be a good idea.
to a family unit.
Now, under that system each indian had set a part for
that the purpose for *ich he designed that use wore sound and
Tribe?
resident Indian.
at1 that time for lands which were taken from them fifty
it are that you are being compensated for direct and indirect
the need to rehabilitate not only the Indians who are dis-
of your reservation.
Indians.
the reservation.
and also the heirship land, when that is taken out I suppose
is to get from you what you think is an equitable plan, then ti~'r,
in Washington.
mented.
and that is me, in the last ton or twelve years there is money
it.
Now, the Indians are getting welfare help from the State
any difference at all because they are getting help from the
76
Indians. I was not told, but I went out and been out of
the reservation since the fall of 1940 up until now, but I have
not gotten onc credit froM the tribal council chairman or the
superintendent.
my both boys with decent clothes and send them to high school.
who are still on the reservation who have not found it within
of it?
Z-7 ~o~~llr~~ar~rrr~avl
.ain r mmr
r- pmF I I
78
the tribe owes the government and the balance will go to the
rehabilitation program.
that up.
IIs
i I U ,I
79
not loans.
in the future.
As the Oahe Dam bill for the Cheyennes is set up, it woul.:
Sloan program.
.--.1..".."o
-1 ,
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80
the years show that not more than sixty percent of the indian
would hardly run fifty years. When you think of fifty years
appreciate that you must start with some of your very young
children and carry them through and you must take care of your
years.
true? Does it look a little better to you than you did before,
say.
becomes effective.
certainly start down the road to where they can have all
We lived happily.
every Indian tribe is different, but we are all put under one
policy. The Navajos are different from the Siouxs and the
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82
she will not object to my repeating what she told me. She
said:
I said, yes.
0 when they heard Dillon Myers was coming? They got all the
was going to be in; they brought in the people and the children
and they cleaned them all up. They took all the old dirty
clothing off and gave them nice clean clothing. Dillon Myers
went down there and there were the Navajos all dressed up
didn't know we were coming and they looked clean and prosperous.
Now, when they got in this big council with Dillon Myers,
to ask Dillon Myers where they got all that money to clean the
know, but I think they are way behind the Siouxs. Maybe they
Mr. Abbott. They have very little money, but the rehabili-
help the people -- you would not want to be left in the posi-
Mr.Abbott. Surely.
Now, you would not want the impression left that you are
you don't junk the automobile, you shoot the driver, don't you?
program simply because you don't like the driver, would you?
and young Indians down there, and those that are off, we are
I going by experience.
nothing but rules and regulations and new policy each time to
experiment on us Indians.
Indian Bureau.
w
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85
Mrs. Kelly. I have Mrs. Ankle. Mrs. Ankle just got here.
She is a sickly woman. She just got here, but she is repre-
say that the witnesses we have this afternoon are very good
college.
Mrs. Ankle, she and her husband have been engaged in the
have educated their children and put them through local high
Little Eagle.
on this bill?
I I i I
86
SOUTH DAKOTA.
which was put in the bill. That is what we are talking about
now.
from the tribal council the general council met at Little Eagle
they think the people would not get equal shares of borrowing
the money.
that are educated enough and qualified to get this loan when it
does get approved by Congress, but there are some left that
are uneduated and have big families and they have poor houses
don't get any of this loan. They won't qualify to get it.
That is the reason why the people of Little Eagle District want
87
think is right because I live among them and I know how they
are.
to the place where the people are better off so they don't
negotiation and we already sold our land, which you know, and
But outside the people sent me here to tell you that they
better homes.
Their houses are so low they are not sanitary, they have
teach sanitation.
y poor houses? We need better houses for our children that are
ten or twenty years to pay that money back, the CF loan they
Eagle?
gram set out in the bill, but you feel that there are those in
the Little Eagle area who feel that the per capita payment
should be larger?
NORTHDAKOTA.
don't want.
can -- the people of Standing Rock do not want this bill, and
a loan.
that bill.
council?
Fort Yates.
Mr. Abbott. Mr. Loone, you say you speak for the people
of the reservation?
EI MI dl
91
Yr. Abbot. That would be the people with hom you have
that don't get contact with the tribal business council or the
gram? 5
Mr. Loone. Yes.
MW. Loone. When this bill came up most Indian people did
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92
Mr. Abbott. There again what you are saying is that you
are not against the program; you do not believe if you had
saying?
Mr. Abbott. Let me ask you this question: Have you had
meetings where the people can come and have this program
explained to them?
meetings?
.5~$
93
Mr. Abbott. Now, they are not all executive; they are
people?
9 and independent, and now they are so hard up and poor and
direction.
But because some errors have been made in the past and
because you do not like the red tape, would you go around to
go and vote for them and every year they think something better
policy. The Indian Bureau has many employees that are swell,
they are fine people, but they have to go by the rules and
regulations.
Lamm
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95
certainly one hundred bills have been taken up and there are
education, but the way I can see it, when we were still wild
dresses.
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96
and warring now and then, Civilization has grown up. You would
here.
Mrs. Kelly?
been a tough one. I have been out among the White people just
97
listening to me.
"Here comes" -- I don't know what kind of a bag they call me,