Bob Dylan on Sacrifice, the Unconscious Mind, and How to Cultivate the

Perfect Environment for Creative Work

People have a hard time accepting anything that overwhelms them.

BY M AR IA PO POVA

Van Morrison once characterized Bob Dylan (b. May 24, 1941) as the greatest living poet. And since poetry, per
Muriel Rukeysers beautiful definition, is an art that relies on the moving relation between individual
consciousness and the world, to glimpse Dylans poetic prowess is to grasp at once his singular consciousness
and our broader experience of the world. Thats precisely what shines through in Paul Zollos 1991 interview
with Dylan, found in Songwriters On Songwriting (public library) that excellent and extensive treasure trove
that gave us Pete Seeger on originality and also features conversations with such celebrated musicians as
Suzanne Vega, Leonard Cohen, k.d. lang, David Byrne, Carole King, and Neil Young, whose insights on
songwriting extend to the broader realm of creative work in a multitude of disciplines.

Zollo captures Dylans singular creative footprint:

Pete Seeger said, All songwriters are links in a chain, yet there are few artists in this evolutionary arc
whose influence is as profound as that of Bob Dylan. Its hard to imagine the art of songwriting as we
know it without him.

[]

Theres an unmistakable elegance in Dylans words, an almost biblical beauty that has sustained his songs throughout the years.
One essential aspect of Dylans creative process that comes up again and again in the interview is the notion of the unconscious and the
optimal environment for its free reign. Dylan tells Zollo:

Its nice to be able to put yourself in an environment where you can completely accept all the unconscious stuff that comes to you from
your inner workings of your mind. And block yourself off to where you can control it all, take it down

Like many creators, Dylan values that unconscious aspect of creativity far more than rational deliberation, speaking to the idea that the muse
cannot be willed, only welcomed a testament to the role of unconscious processing in the psychological stages of creative work. He tells
Zollo:

The best songs to me my best songs are songs which were written very quickly. Yeah, very, very quickly. Just about as much time as it
takes to write it down is about as long as it takes to write it.

In order to do that, he adds, one must stay in the unconscious frame of mind to pull it off, which is the state of mind you have to be in anyway.
Contrary to Bukowskis punchy assertion that the ideal environment for creativity is an irrelevant delusion and E.B. Whites admonition that a
writer who waits for ideal conditions under which to work will die without putting a word on paper, Dylan believes this optimal frame of
mind can be induced or, at least, greatly aided by the right conditions:

For me, the environment to write the song is extremely important. The environment has to bring something out in me that wants to be
brought out. Its a contemplative, reflective thing

Environment is very important. People need peaceful, invigorating environments. Stimulating environments.

To foster such unconscious receptivity, Dylan argues that you have to be able to get the thoughts out of your mind and explains:

First of all, theres two kinds of thoughts in your mind: theres good thoughts and evil thoughts. Both come through your mind. Some
people are more loaded down with one than another. Nevertheless, they come through. And you have to be able to sort them out, if you
want to be a songwriter, if you want to be a song singer. You must get rid of all that baggage. You ought to be able to sort out those
thoughts, because they dont mean anything, theyre just pulling you around, too. Its important to get rid of them thoughts.

Then you can do something from some kind of surveillance of the situation. You have some kind of place where you can see it but it cant
affect you. Where you can bring something to the matter, besides just take, take, take, take, take. As so many situations in life are today.
 Take, take, take, thats all that it is. Whats in it for me? That syndrome which started in the Me Decade, whenever that was. Were still in
that. Its still happening.

Dylan makes a seemingly controversial statement that resonates with new layers of poignancy in our present age of seemingly infinite cloud
libraries of streamable music and a constant, industrialized churning out of disposable pop hits:

The world dont need any more songs As a matter of fact, if nobody wrote any songs from this day on, the world aint gonna suffer for it.
Nobody cares. Theres enough songs for people to listen to, if they want to listen to songs. For every man, woman and child on earth, they
could be sent, probably, each of them, a hundred songs, and never be repeated. Theres enough songs.

Unless someones gonna come along with a pure heart and has something to say. Thats a different story.

But as far as songwriting, any idiot could do it Everybody writes a song just like everybodys got that one great novel in them.

In fact, Dylan seems to regard popular entertainers despite counting himself among them with a certain degree of contempt and
mistrust:

Its not a good idea and its bad luck to look for lifes guidance to popular entertainers.

Dylan considers what it takes to be among the few rare exceptions worthy of true creative respect:

Madonnas good, shes talented, she puts all kinds of stuff together, shes learned her thing But its the kind of thing which takes years
and years out of your life to be able to do. Youve got to sacrifice a whole lot to do that. Sacrifice. If you want to make it big, youve got to
sacrifice a whole lot.

When Zollo asks Dylan whether he sees himself the way Van Morrison famously characterized him, Dylan replies:

[Pause] Sometimes. Its within me. Its within me to put myself up and be a poet. But its a dedication. [Softly] Its a big dedication.

[Pause] Poets dont drive cars. [Laughs] Poets dont go to the supermarket. Poets dont empty the garbage. Poets arent on the PTA. Poets,
you know, they dont go picket the Better Housing Bureau, or whatever. Poets dont poets dont even speak on the telephone. Poets
dont even talk to anybody. Poets do a lot of listening and and usually they know why theyre poets! [Laughs]

[]

Poets live on the land. They behave in a gentlemanly way. And live by their own gentlemanly code.

[Pause] And die broke. Or drown in lakes. Poets usually have very unhappy endings

When the conversation veers into the question of whether Shakespeare was really Shakespeare and peoples skepticism about accepting that a
single person was able to produce such a body of work, Dylan makes a remark that extends to a great many more aspects of society:

People have a hard time accepting anything that overwhelms them.

He seems especially dismissive of public opinion and even more so, similarly to David Bowie, of artists preoccupation with it:

Its not to anybodys best interest to think about how they will be perceived tomorrow. It hurts you in the long run.
As the conversation progresses, Zollo returns to songwriting, citing Pete Seegers assertion that originality is a myth and all songwriters are
links in a chain, to which Dylan responds:

The evolution of a song is like a snake, with its tail in its mouth. Thats evolution. Thats what it is. As soon as youre there, you find your
tail.

Considering his own songs, Dylan contemplates their nature, the self-transcendence necessary for writing, and the creative value of being an
outcast:

My songs arent dreams. Theyre more of a responsive nature

To me, when you need them, they appear. Your life doesnt have to be in turmoil to write a song like that but you need to be outside of it.
Thats why a lot of people, me myself included, write songs when one form or another of society has rejected you. So that you can truly
write about it from the outside. Someone whos never been out there can only imagine it as anything, really.

Songwriters On Songwriting is a magnificent read in its hefty totality. Complement it with similar meditations on process and creativity from
the world of writing, including thoughts by Anne Lamott, Ernest Hemingway, Stephen King, Susan Orlean, Neil Gaiman, Elmore Leonard, and
Michael Lewis.

Published May 21, 2014

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/05/21/bob-dylan-songwriters-on-songwriting-interview/

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