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Nov 19, 2017

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Permutation and combination basic understanding

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Permutation and combination basic understanding

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d=3537

now my turn to write an article. So I decided to

write one as soon as possible and pass the

buck back to her. We both know that it takes a

lot of pain to research for an article and write

the text so we both try to avoid it for as long

as possible. On the other hand, since we both

enjoy writing and like to publish a well-finished

chapter, we both undertake the task eagerly

once the ball is in our court. Writing these

chapters have made me realize how true is the maxim "if you want to

learn something well, teach it." I can cite a lot of topics which I learnt

while teaching in the class or answering students' questions. These

years of teaching have made so many topics seem pretty childish to

me which were nightmares to me before. But knowing a topic well

and teaching it are two different ball games. Many a times, I have

found myself struggling in the class to make a student understand

something which I have found obvious to understand! The fault is

not on the student's part. Three or four years ago, I would have been

stuck on the same point! Every time I encounter a situation like this,

my only measure is to stop at that point, retrace my steps with the

students and slowly unravel the difficulty he's facing. It works most

of the times. But sometimes, the student is in so much awe with the

topic that his mind gets frozen. I have seen this happening many a

times. Topics such as time, speed and distance, Permutation and

Combination, geometry etc. inspire so much fear among the

students that sometimes simple principles, which they would have

otherwise understood do not strike them as simple. I get incessant

queries such as "Sir, time speed distance chhod sakte hain?," "Sir,

permutation combination na karein to chalega?" from my students all

the time. And the sad part is, that the level of CAT in these topics is

very simple. They are doable. In the present chapter, I am trying to

present one of these dreaded chapters as I understand it. I hope my

students understand it too.

I shall have to end here and leave the rest of it for my CBT Club

students. I shall cover some problems based on this in the CBT

Club this week.

If you think this article was useful, help others by sharing it with your

friends!

You might also like:

Probability

Maxima, Minima and Inequalities

Sir,

thnkz,

VaMsI

u rock ....

Amit

Thanks

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi TG,

of the 4 friends problem.

together is

Hi TG,

Since these two couples want to sit together at either end. Now, we'll

tie them together. Hence, total number of students will be 7 out of

which 6 students can sit in 6x5x4x3x2x1 = 720 ways. and the couple

can sit at either ends (i.e 2 ways) and the couples can sit in 2 ways

among themselves and finally, in each couple, boy and girl can sit in

2 ways(BG and GB)(Total = 2x2 ways). Hence, Number of ways all

can sit will be:

hey TG...

awesome piece of writing dude... rather thanx dagny for giving him a

push to write it... :D

cheers,

hi....Tg....

worried as u were not writing articles for cat 08 students....but nw m

so glad and confident dat my all worries will vanish.Tg can u plz write

an article on probability too....

TG Sir!

Simply Fantabulous!! Just wanted to know do u have a Book having

all topics of Quant...I have the book on Number theory which in itself,

is very good.!!!

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hey Manika,

TG played smart this time. I asked him to write an article three days

back ;he wrote, edited and uploaded it within two days. Now the ball

is back in my court.

i dont have word to say anything more ...................

Hey Amit,

Pl Recheck

seats..in 2 ways so two couples can do tat in 2 X 2 ways

regards,

VaMsI

Thanks TG

Awesome Article.......

Thanks a lot TG

Hi TG,

The article is simply mind blowing!!!Plzzzzzzzz post an exercise on

Permutation and Combination problems.

Hi Rajdeep,

Total Gadha

exercise like the one on Number System problems,I mean

plenty more problems to solve.Also where can i get the

answers to these problems???

Anywys TG rocks!!!!

by Riyaz Iqbal - Wednesday, 20 August 2008, 11:03 PM

Hi TG,

functions' problem.The no.of functions from a 5-element set to 7-

element set should be less than 7^5,right? 7^5 simply represents

the number of ordered pairs (x,y) from first set to the

second.Several of them may correspond to a single function.eg:

(1,1) (2,2),...(5,5) are five distinct ordered pairs but a single function

viz y=x. Am I missing something?

ash, hi I've just started with the Num system but am finding the

area vast,enomously huge and the topics not concentrated from a

particular source.From your post I see that there is some

consolidated resource for the Num system you talkin about or is

the the ebook by TG ppl.Can you post on the name here.It would be

sure help if I am to find the book and the contents

satisfying.Thanks.....!!!!

Hi Riyaz,

elements of set 1 to 7 elements of set 2 would be counted as a

single function only.

Total Gadha

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi TG,

card but I am facing problems while trying to write the exam online. I

have mailed you long back about this (to the copycat email ID and

also to admin email ID). But I have not received any answer for that.

And I could not find any contact number too on this site where I

could call up and report my problem. Please respond.

Content from my previous mail dated July 30th 2008 to you below:

unresponsive and did not navigate to the next page at all. I tried

taking the exam but when I started with it and entered my options for

the first page and clicked on the Next button, the site became very

slow and did not show the next page at all. I tried several times but it

was of no use. I checked the browser compatibility test and it said

my system is fine for taking the test and my internet connection is

good and all other websites are working fine. I am mighty

disappointed. Please look into this problem ASAP

Hi TG,

Though I feel not ok to write here, I am also facing the same

problem, not able to browse to next page. may be if the page

remains open for some time the connection to ur server breaks.

Please send the pdf for the COPYCATs to my mail beforehand.

So that I can take print and appear the test..

Plz find a solution for us.

Thanks.

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi TG,

functions,logarithms and probability

hi dear

First of all ..thnx a lot for such a nice collections of questions which

has helped to build the fundamentals of this topic...

i just have one doubt in one of the examples ..above where we are

getting number of 7 didgit numbers ...in binary.....that part is ok...

other conditions aprt from last 3 digits as zeros........say a binary no

when conveted to decimal and becomes 24...that is divisble by 8....

may be i m wrong somewhere but plz tell me why only you have

taken the condition of last 3 didgits as 0 for dibisiblity by 8...why not

other conditions....

thnx

rakesh

Hi Rakesh,

Total Gadha

HI ALL,

question.>there are 10 students out of which three are boys and

seven are girls,in how many different ways can the students be

paired such that no pair consists of two boys?

person 1 or to person 2; task 2 must be assigned either to person 3

or person 4. Every person must be assigned one task. In how many

ways can the assignment be done(CAT 2006)?"

other 4 tasks can be assigned to him - 4 ways

Second Person: As task 1 & task 2 cannot be assigned, and

one already assigend to Person 1, any of the other 3 tasks can be

assigned to him - 3 ways

assigned to him - 3 ways

Third Person & Fourth person: one of these get Task 2. The other

gets any of the other 3. (one of tasks 1,3,4,5,6 (leaving the tasks

assigned to Persons 1 & 2) - 3 ways

Fourth & Fifth Persons: other 2 tasks can be assigned in 2 ways.

total = 4*3*3*2 = 72

TG/Dagny

Wonderful work!!!

I was going through the number system quiz,and have a doubt in a

question .Where can I post my query ?

Regards

Arpita

PM

Hi Amit,

Here's my try...

1st Approach

1 boy can pair up wid 7 girls in 7 ways...So for 3 boys, total no. of

ways is 21..And 1 girl can pair up wid 6 other girls in n(n-1)/2,

ie, (7x6)/2 = 21 ways..(or) Just 7C2 = 21 will cede u the answer.

[[OR]]

2nd Approach

arranging them in pairs can be done in 45x2 = 90 ways..(or) juz we

have to arrange 2 places out of 10 which can be done in 10P2 = 90

ways..

I am perplexed..

Best Rgds,

Suren

PM

TGGGGGG,

invites more confusions.....

I wud say dat the below problem can be solved easily but u said it is

not so..

and 3 girls on four different seats?

Now see, totally thr are 8 ppl where they 've to be seated in 4 seats..

Plz elucidate the fact for breaking the problem & considering 4

cases in ur approach....

Thanks in advance,

Best Rgds,

Suren

Hi TG,

It is regarding the '7 digit binary no div. by 8 when converted to

decimal no' question.

How can one decide that the last 4 bits , if are equal to zero then the

no is divisible by 8 when converted to decimal ?

Suppose the same question asks about octal no instead of binary,

how should one decide about it ?

Hi

Answer is 630.give another try.

Hi TG,

Gr8 article....

Plz post the solutions of the problems that you have mentioned in ur

artical...

We want to match our answers and approach.

And plz can u post something on probability prior to CAT 2008.

combination.

approaches , kindly tell me which one correct :

six students each, such that there are exactly three common

between the two teams, In how many ways can the teams be

formed.

Ans:

1st approach:

C3 ways ,

rest of the 3 students we can take out of 7 students =7C3 ways

students out of the 4 students in = 4C3 ways.

2nd Approach :

be selected in = 10C3 ways.

since 7 students are still left and for each team we need 6 students

, Now select the student

will find a place in neither team and it can be done in = 7C1 ways.

and it can be done in

= 6C 3 / 2

Hi TG,

How many arrangements r dere of six 0's, five 1's and four 2's,

where

shudnt the ans be 343980 and not 349380?.... and there's an easier

way as well. It goes like this:

total arrangements=(15!/(4!*5!*6!))

so,

q=11!/(6!*5!)

p=10!/(5!*5!)

ans=343980

Hi Rudra,

Corrected the typing error. And good way to solve the question.

Total Gadha

Hi Tuhin,

the question of "three states with three students from each state...."

Total Gadha

hi

i'm here for the first time.. this was pretty helpful.. how do i cross

check if i got the right answers?? will the solutions be available for

the questions??

Hi TG,

for the question -

In how many ways can four persons be seated out of five boys and

three girls on 4 different seats?

why cant we do it like this?

there are 8 people in all.. select four of them in 8c4 ways (70 ways).

Now you can arrange these four in 4! ways(24 ways). So total ways

is 70*24 = 1680.

"in how many diff ways can the faces of a cube be painted in 6 diff

colors?"

as the first face can be painted in 6 ways,,

rather than only 1 way,,

thnx

Re: Permutation and Combination

article on permutation and combination did end here..

just being curious. are u vamsee krishna from CSE IITKGP, class

2006??

If you are kindly reply back, it would be nice to know one more

familiar face at TG

Hi TG,

My Solutions are -

1)a

2)c

3)b

4)

5)c

6)

7)c

8)c

9)a

10)b

11)b

12)c

13)b

14)b

15)

16)

17)b

19)d

20)

21)c

22)16725

23)24

24)840

25)120

26) 680

27)26!/2

28)45

29)21

30)35

31)5

32)7c2

33)33600

I was not able to solve some questions for which I had not put any

answers. Can you please verify my answers and tell me the

solutions of which are wrong or which I was not able to solve.

Manish

Hi TG,

I haven't solved all the questions till now...just want to confirm the

answers of first 5 ques..

1 (a)

2(b)

3(d)

5(c)

Hi TG Sir,

solutions.

Manish

Frns

http://totalgadha.com/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=3683

VaMsI

Hi TG,

Saurabh

Hi suren,

arrangement is not required. Hence 10c2-3c2=45-3=42 is the

answer.

Hi TG sir,

many ways 5 boys , 3 girls can be sitted in 4 seats?"

combination)

Hi TG sir,

The lesson is really great. i have a doubt for one of the examples.

spiderman3.

you gave two arrangement for the wish of the boys "every boy wants

to sit with a girl" and no two girls sit together

GBBGBGBGBG

GBGBBGBGBG

GBGBGBBGBG

GBGBGBGBBG

In the above arrangements every boy is sitting with a girl and no two

girls are sitting together

reasoning.

Warm Regards,

Amit

Amit

hi,

for the states question can't we solve like this from 3states 3

students eachso selecting 5 frm 9= 9c5

then subtracting 6c5 (case where all 5 students are selected frm two

states)

ie:9c5 - 6c5 .pls tell me where the problm is

Hi TG,

numbers that are divisible by 8 when converted to base 10). i was

wondering as to y the 3rd digit from the last cannot be 1 or 0. You've

mentioned that the last 3 digits should be 0. But if the last 3 digits

are 100 then its base 10 equivalent will be 400 which is divisible by

8.... I'm really bad at P n C but i can't figure out the logical flaw in my

thought... Can u help me out on this?

Ya i agree with you sandesh, i too got this doubt.And i think we are

correct.

Hi TG Sir,

This is the best material i have ever come across for Permutation

and Combination.

I have been going through the material in the forum. all of them r so

amazing that i am actually gaining the confidence to crack the CAT

though i have not been doing so good in the mock cat. Thanks a

lot..!!

Hats off To U...!!!

Hi TG,

in the permutation section.

I solved it in this manner. you tie the PM, MP and MLA into a single

person and then calculate the ways to arrange them.

wudn`t it be 8! then that we have other 7 speakers and 1 group of

PM, MP and MLA to arrange?

I find your way also logical but am not able to understand difference

between my approach and your approach. kindly can you explain

where I am missing the logic?

Hi TG,

I have some problem in understanding the concept of partition

problem..

6 choices..

6C2 = 15 ways..

hi TG,

the problem i had above , i'd done a mistake

actually thr wud be 30 ways ...

for 2nd stick - 5

so total - 6*5=30.

Regards,

sumit

by Total Gadha - Thursday, 12 February 2009, 11:09 PM

Hi Sumit,

In your solution, you can't place sticks like this for example

||* * * * *

This would denote a 0 0 5 case which you cannot cover. You can

only cover 0 5 0 case by placing the sticks in this manner: |* * * * *|

The way you are placing the sticks you can never place two sticks

side by side because you are taking it to be one space only.

Total Gadha

hi sir,

sir that's fine ..bt if iam nt considering this case ..then y is my answer

comin to be arnd 30 ..whr as u stated it's 21.

i think thr might be somekind of repeatition...

and as u told

| | * * * * * nt included so,

then arrangement wud be like..

| *****

now to include ur case for 2nd stick thr are 6 cases as i can place

stick between stars and beside 1st stick

method.

regards,

sumit

sumit

Hi Sumit,

whereas there have to be taken as similar. For example, take two

simple cases:

partitions. Both these case would yield the same result, i.e. 1 3 1 but

you are counting them as different.

For the first partition I have 6 places.

**| ***

ways = 6 7 = 42. As each case is being repeated once, the total

number of cases = 42/2 = 21.

Total Gadha

hi TG,

gr8 work ..

Regards ,

sumit

Re: Permutation and Combination

variety.

Thanks a Lot

Abnv

hi TG,

which

reply soon...

hi tg.. 1st of all thanks a ton for this simply awesome post .. i ws nt

getting any gud material on P&C n Probability n was worried ...

thanks again..

address. One constraint is PM shud address before MP and MP

before MLA .

people 2 b arranged becomes (7+1) = 8 ... and now arranging them

we get

Ans = 8! .

Hi TG,

with no repeated digits, in the second case for number not

ending in 0, you have multiplied 8*8*4.

in doubt ask....

Thanks,

Priyesh Tungare

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi Randeep,

'Before' might not always mean 'just before,' as you have assumed

by taking them together. There can be other persons between P, Q

and R.

Total Gadha

Hi Priyesh,

There are four 4 even digits after removing zero- 2, 4, 6 and 8. The

number would end in one of these.

Total Gadha

oh yeah ,, gosh i shud hav thot dat.. thanks a lot for clearing the

doubt ...

TG sir it will b a gr8 help if u cud post some gud text, like dis, for

Probablity also .. dats another area, which i find tough..

by iim freak - Friday, 29 May 2009, 10:09 AM

hi tg.. from where can i find the answers 2 the above exercise.. its v

imp 2 chk whether i hav understud ur concepts pr nt.

hi tg,

im a bit confsed wid the solution to the paint cube problem............

considered that....plzzz enlighten

Hey guys I have a question related to this topic, could u solve this?

Here it goes...

together.Wat is the probability that any 2 boyz are together?

anyways i dnt know probability so cant help @ this moment .. TG sir

will be posting a text on Prob soon... waiting for that...ATB mate

Re: Permutation and Combination

q)in how many ways can at least two friends stay together

answer,will be very grateful if someone can point out the fallacy in

this

c(4,2)*10*9*8

c(4,3)*10*9

10

tell me the mistake in this

hi,

Q. how many three digit numbers are there which are even and

have no repeated digits ????

___

the 3rd place 5 choices ,(i.e; 0,2,4,6,8) so no of ways are 5

1st place have 8 choices (excluding 0 and the 3rd place's number)

& 2nd place have again eight choices ....

and that comes out to be 8 * 8 * 5 = 320 ..

thanx a lot!!!!

@Rohan,

When you will use 0 for the unit's place then for the hundreds place

you will have 9 choices(1....9) and 1oth place 8 choices.

hi sir,

can u pls explain me the problem just before cicular combinations..i

cant understand it clearly..pls help..thanks..

Hii,

and am unable to solve. Pl chech it out and help me guys.

You have to find out the number of ways to reach from A to B.

Extremely sorry 4 the poor quality of fig. I ain't that good with

computers.

Thanx in advance.

hi

sir

this file is so good for cat exam so i want solution of the all prob

hey smruty,

by any chance do you know the answer to your question?

its coming out to be 72.

if its correct i will tell you the procedure.

Can somebody provide me the answers for (ii) and (iii) parts of the

question for 6 0's, 5 1's ans 4 2's?

I got the answers as 15840 for (ii) and 378738 for (iii)

You r right.

The solution given here, is based on a assumption that the three

speek in order, which is not the case. Your solution is perfect i

guess.

Re: Permutation and Combination to Bheemesh K

You r right.

The solution given here, is based on a assumption that the three

speek in order, which is not the case. Your solution is perfect i

guess.

2009, 12:31 AM

From the figure you have given i have worked out and got the

answer to be 30. Juz check if you already know the answer and if it

is wrong please let me know. I have attached the file here.

Moreover I have assumed that one can travel through a path only

once. For example you cannot go through ED and again comeback

to E.

Re: Permutation and Combination

childish!

can be obtained by rolling 2 dice if the they are distinguishable...

different cases, why are we not taking two cases for (4,4)? Though

the denominations are same but the dice are distinguishable.

i dont think it will be taken abhishek.. as(4,4) is making the dice

indistinguishable..

btw.. very good work tg sir..the best article till date i have found on

p&c.. and i will be posting the solns soon..

hi TG

i hav problem

Q:there are 7 men and 5 women we have to select 4 men and 3

women but if mrs A will go then mrs B will not go.in how many ways v

can select them?

and there are 3 cases

case 1: we first select mrs A them automatically mrs b will not be

selected then we can select remaining women in 3C2 ways,

that is 7C4*3C2=105.

case 2: we select mrs B then automatically mrs A will not be

selected then ve can select remaining women in 3C2 ways,

that is 7C4*3C2=105,

case 3:if both of them are not selected then wewill have 3C3 ways

to select women

that is 7C4*3C3=35

that means total no of ways =105+105+35=245

Hi TG..

Hi TG,

@ ku klux klan

same hotel.

Hi All,

digit numbers can be formed which are divisible by 7?

Options :-

A) 75 + 74 + 73 + 72 + 7 C) 4 76

B) 4 75 D) 7 6 E) 6 7 6

Thanks

Pallav Jain

Hi TG,

I have a doubt in the article that u have posted. To get a sum of 8

with distinguishable dices, wont the occurrence of(4,4) be different

because it is distinguishable??? shudnt we consider it as 2 cases

..Pls clarify...

Hi priya,

of(4,4) be different because it is distinguishable??? shudnt we

consider it as 2 cases ..

case in same kind of dice).

1.Red->1 Blue->2

2.Red->2 Blue->1

You can distinguish the two not only by their color but also by the

difference in their numerical value.

Case 2: (4,4)

1.Blue->4 Red->4

2.Red->4 Blue->4

the case though the two dice are distinguishable.

Rohit

Hi Rohit,

going by ur example,Wat i understand from the article is that

color is the distinguishing factor and not the number... If we remove

the color aspect from the argument only then the distinguishing

property vanishes... hope i am not wrong..anyways.. Thanks for the

approach

Hi priya,

If we remove the color aspect from the argument only then the

distinguishing property vanishes...

The dice had two different colors viz. red and blue..(I did not remove

them)

But, still you could not distinguish <4,4> from each other..!!(how

could you if they are the same ones?)

If you had changed the number to <1,2> then you would have

distinguished it from <2,1> occurrence.

would be more clear..

occurrence of <1,2> or <2,1> or for that matter any pair of values

and vice versa cannot be distinguished..(very obvious)

(indistinguishable because of color)

<2,1>(distinguishable because of color of the dice)

b. <4,4> or for that matter any same value on both dice cannot be

distinguished from vice versa value(which is actually the same

occurrence as the previous..) (indistinguishable because of same

value on the dice)

the dice of different colors is the color aspect, only when numbers

appearing on the dice are different. If the number becomes

same(indistinguishable) then you cannot distinguish the occurrence.

Rohit

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi sir ..

its really superb.... thanks for ur article.....

Hi TG..!!

girls in 4 different seats?

While explaining you said it is not the simple formula based P&C

problem.

breaking down the problem into cases(the way you already

suggested as the concept).

done in 8C4 ways

which can be done in 4! ways

Please let me know if this is not the right way to approach the

problem.

I need your insight into this.

Rohit

Hi,

superb article.

u have to make sure that no two girls sit together,

_B_B_B_B_B_

available so that no two girls sit together, this can be done in 6 ways

and the girls can then be seated in 6* 5! ways.

given condition then comes out to be

6*5!*5!.

Thanx

hi Sharmista,

You are missing out some hig here. Say 1st we seat all the boys..in

5! ways.

can be seated in any of the 6 available places,2nd girl can be

seated in the remaining 5 avaialble places ,3rd girl can be seated in

remaining 4 available places....etc

ie 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 .

Ashwin

Thanx ashwin.

2 in 2*5!*(6*5*4*3*2) .

Re: Permutation and Combination

hey..

dont think like dat..We are all here to learn from eachother no one is

perfect.So never underestimate urself...Coming to the question, see

there will be 2 cases :1st case when u seat all the boys 1st in 5

places then arrange the girls .2nd case you can seat the girls 1st

then arrange the boys among them.

hence we take 2*

Ashwin

Hi TG Sir,

Thanks a lot for your article and I don't have any words to describe

ur work sir...

I owe a lot... Great job sir... I have a great respect for you sir and

long live TG family

many ways can they stay ?

Sol :

friend can stay in 10 ways, similarly the third and fourth..

so the ans is 10*10*10*10 = 10000

(approach 2) : The first hotel can accomodate 4 friends or 3

friends or 2 friends or 1 friend or 0(zero). So nu of ways the 1st

hotel can accomodate is 1+2+3+4 = 10 ( i have added 1,2,3,4 as it

is either - "OR" case)

Same goes for 2nd hotel, 3rd hotel and 4th hotel...

so the ans is 10*10*10*10 = 10000

*******************************************************

Now have a look at question no 2

*******************************************************

2. In how many ways can u post 10 letters in 4 letterboxes ?

Sol :

second,third....tenth.

So the ans is : 4*4*4...*4 = 4^10 = 1048576

(approach 2 ) : The first letter box can get '1' or '2' or '3' ..... '10'

letters.So nu of ways

the 1st letter can accomodate is 1+2+3+4+..+10 = 55

Same goes for 2nd letter 3rd letter and 4th letter

approach.. Kindly explain me sir.. Also tell me given a question when

to apply which approach...

My prob is I never get satisfied with one approach sir.. I always try

out different approach..

like me...

Thanks

Saran

Hi Saravanar,

If first letter box posts even 1 letter or 2 letters etc. the second letter

box does not have 10 ways.

Total Gadha

Hello,

but anyways please help me out with the following

In how many ways can 10 soldiers stand in 2 rows such that there

are 5 soldiers in each row?

Puneet

Hi TG

Thanks again,

problem with the TGites.

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56592.html

A query: If you go through the proof in the link I have given, you can

see that they are considering 4 out of 5 letters placed in the correct

envelope. How come there result matches with the one given in this

thread? I mean i could not find where I am going wrong. Please

help!!!

Hi TG,

Yes i got it... the second letter box need not have ten ways...

(approach 2) ?? I tried to solve but couldn't get the ans as well as

the approach..

Saran

What is the probability that each boy gets same number of balls?

a) 5/16

b) 15/64

c) 1/2

d) 3/8

Hi,

I would like to point out the that the solution to the 5 BOY , 5 GIRL

MOVIE movie problem with no girls sitting together is a little flawed...

GBGBGBBGBG n many others lik this....

people for this problem) who are not supposed to be together as

dynamic and others as static...

here boys have to be static n girls dynamic... as shown below

_B_B_B_B_B_

so girls only have six positions to go into and also they will never be

together as we limiting them by providing only one slot btw boys.

Hence refer to them as dynamic as they can take 6 positions.

so, 6P5 = 6x120

while boys who can be together are static cause they can only take 5

positions.

5P5 = 120

Also, Please correct me if I am wrong :D

Hi Nishchal,

You forgot the condition mentioned in the question- every boy wants

to sit with a girl.

Total Gadha

in the condition mentioned by nischai every boy has at least one gal

on his side!!

Here every boy is sitting with one girl.... it the condition was

"every boy wants to sit in-between 2 girls" then i would be a diff

case altogether.

If not then plz temme... y these cases are not to be considered...

Hi TG!!

superb article

I have a question which has been asked by Rohit also.i am using

same language as him

"In how many ways can 4 persons be seated out of 5 boys and 3

girls in 4 different seats?

While explaining you said it is not the simple formula based P&C

problem.

breaking down the problem into cases(the way you already

suggested as the concept).

done in 8C4 ways

which can be done in 4! ways

So total number of ways = 8C4 * 4! = 70*24 = 1680 (same as 8P4)"

Hello TG sir,

Thanx Sir...

Hi TG,

the Lessons multiple times, I am unable to solve even a single

problem. It is not because of the way you explain things, but it is my

ability.

CAT.

It may be of great help if you can let me where the solutions are

present I can just read them for purpose of learning.

Thanks,

Harish.A

by aritreyee chaudhuri - Wednesday, 2 December 2009, 08:50 PM

Hi TG

recollect many of the concepts learnt earlier..

other guys Syd S and Anirban Bhar have also asked the same

question that i am going to type now..

(as there are six colors)..and in that case the opposite side will have

5 possibilities..for the remaining we can use the circular perrmutation

rule..so the remaining sides can be painted in (4-1)! ways..

be 6x5x3! ?

i hve a prob...

section & to qualify 1 have get min. 90 marks then in hw many ways

he cn qualify da exam??????????????

Hi ,

PM then MP followed by MLA

speakers adddress rally in 10! ways. this includes PQR PRQ QPR

QRP RPQ RQP. Now Since need only PQR we divide 10! by 6.

I have a genuine prob here . First of all its decided tat PQR will be

the order which means we need to keep PQR fixed and only count

the remaining 7 ppl arrangement. Y cant it be so ??? I know I wrong

where am I making the mistake ....

Im a real dumb one to have such doubts ... but want to make it clear

....

Hi TG Sir,

the number of ways that 4 girls and 5 boys can sit around a

table st no two girls sit together ?

boys( no 2 girls sit together)??

(case1:around a round table

imlovinmath

Answers

1a

2b

3d

4c

5c

6a

7d

8c

9c

10 b

11 b

12 c

13

14 a

15

16

17 b

18 d

19 a

20 c

answers

Hi TG,

IV i.e when all balls and boxes are dissimilar, for distribution 113 and

122 u say the no of distributions are 3!. Shouldn't it be 3!/2! = 3 as

there are 2 groups with same number of things?

Hi Sonali

Though in 113 and 122 distribution there are two groups with

same number of things but still they are different groups because of

different balls. That's why it is 3! in place of 3!/2!

Hope it is clear.

by Naman Mirchandani - Tuesday, 20 July 2010, 04:29 PM

Sir,

different boxes?

But there is one basic question in you article (like in how many

can one post 10 letters in 4 letter boxes: 4 * 4 *4.....10 times :

4^10....).....

different letterboxes .....answer will come : 13C3 ?

generalised where nothing is mentioned about similarity or

dissimilarity ? )

Naman

Hi TG Sir ,

(

in these types of arrangements GB GB BG BG BG

Here every boy is sitting with one girl.... it the condition was

"every boy wants to sit in-between 2 girls" then i would be a diff

case altogether.

If not then plz temme... y these cases are not to be considered...

)

Cant we consider this arrangement .

hi everyone!

how many different sums can be formed with the following coins

paise?

plz eleborate

steps. At every step the person has got a choice of taking 1 step or

2 steps or 3 steps.The number of ways in whch person can take

those steps is??

Re: Permutation and Combination

at random, find the probability that the three numbers on them are in

A.P

from 1 to 21 find the no. of AP's that u can get and there will be

cases accordingly:

choose 3 nos. which are in AP as 1,2,3 or 2,3,4 or 3,4,5 and so

on...hence total no. of cases will be 19 here with last case ending at

19,20,21

a) 1,3,5,7......21 = 11 nos.

hence nos. can be chosen as 1,3,5 or 3,5,7 and so on ..so here

TOTAL CASES = 9

b) 2,4,6,8......20 = 10 nos.

hence nos. can be chosen as 2,4,6 or 4,6,8 and so on..so here

TOTAL CASES = 8

a) 1,4,7,10,13,16,19 -> total cases = 5

b) 2,5,8,11,14,17,20 -> total cases = 5

c) 3,6,9,12,15,18,21 -> total cases = 5

a) 1,5,9,13,17,21 -> total cases = 4

b) 2,6,10,14,18 -> total cases = 3

c) 3,7,11,15,19 -> total cases = 3

d) 4,8,12,16,20 -> total cases = 3

a) 1,6,11,16,21 -> Total cases = 3

b) 2,7,12,17 -> Total cases = 2

c) 3,8,13,18 -> Total cases = 2

d) 4,9,14,19 -> Total cases = 2

e) 5,10,15,20 -> Total cases = 2

a) 1,7,13,19 -> Total cases = 2

b) 2,8,14,20 -> Total cases = 2

c) 3,9,15,21 -> Total cases = 2

d) 4,10,16 -> Total cases = 1

e) 5,11,17 -> Total cases = 1

f) 6,12,18 -> Total cases = 1

a) 1,8,15 -> Total cases = 1

b) 2,9,16 -> Total cases = 1

c) 3,10,17 -> Total cases = 1

d) 4,11,18 -> Total cases = 1

e) 5,12,19 -> Total cases = 1

f) 6,13,20 -> Total cases = 1

g) 7,14,21 -> Total cases = 1

a) 1,9,17 -> Total cases = 1

b) 2,10,18 -> Total cases = 1

c) 3,11,19 -> Total cases = 1

d) 4,12,20 -> Total cases = 1

e) 5,13,21 -> Total cases = 1

a) 1,10,19 -> Total cases = 1

b) 2,11,20 -> Total cases = 1

c) 3,12,21 -> Total cases = 1

a) 1,11,21 -> Total cases = 1

now total no. of AP's cases that you can have from these nos. is

19+17+15+13+11+9+7+5+3+1 = 100

now total no. of ways of selecting 3 nos. from given 21 nos. are

21C3 = 1330

I could not think of a shorter approach but i certainly feel that there

must be one....TGites please help here...kindly post a shorter or

simpler approach if you find one...and let me know if the answer is

correct...

thanks

Nitin

set A is formed by selecting some of the numbers from the first 100

natural numbers such that the HCF of any two numbers in the set are

same

Q1:if every pair of set A has to be realtively prime and set A has

max number of elements possible,then in how many ways set A can

be selected..??

1)64

2)96

3)72

4)108

Q2: if the HCF of any two numbers in set A is 3, then what is the

maximum no of elements set A can have..??

1)10

2)12

3)11

4)14

by Animesh Devarshi - Saturday, 11 September 2010, 07:23 PM

Hi ,

reg question: how many ways can for persons be seated out of 5

boys and 3 girls on four different seats?

@deepti anand

Ans 1.

thinking part: here, for elements to be max, it can be understood that

we need to take all primes numbers <100 and "1". therefore we will

have 26 elements in that set.

A little more thought to it will get to the point that we can also select

powers of the primes nos. (<100). so here goes a little paper work

part:

1

2^1 to 2^6 (highest 6 since 2^7 >100)

3^1 to 3^4

5^1 to 5^2

7^1 to 7^2

11

13............

so we would have: 6*4*2*2 = 96 ways!!

Ans 2.

HCF = 3; this means that the only common factor between any 2

elements should be 3.

To make this possible, start taking numbers from 3 onwards

multiplied with primes,

i.e. 3*1, 3*2, 3*3, 3*5....3*31.

These are a total of 12 numbers!!

Re: Permutation and Combination

hi TG..

i had 2 quests..i was wondering if u cud plz help me out wid dem..

2.)Six white and Six black balls of the same size r 2 be distributed

among 10 urns such that each urn contains at least one ball.What is

the total no of distributions..????

question :

Determine the number of 5 card combinations out of a deck of 52

cards if there

is exactly one ace in each combination.

4C1 X 48C4

&

48 ways) X 47(next card can be selected in 47 ways) X 46(..) X

45(..)

Hi Ankit

your second method the four cards have been ordered and that

needs to be divided by 4! which will again fetch the same result as

calculated by first method.

Thanks very much for clearing the doubt , I got it right now for this

one. Actually I am always confused when to consider the order and

when not.usually if arrangement is asked in the question I consider

the order otherwise not.

It helped me get all the fundas.. so that I need not depend on 3 4

sources to get knowledge of single concept

Hello,

k1 is the number things of one type

k2 is the number of things of 2nd type

soon ..........

selected and arranged then can we use the below formula?

Hi TG,

In the solved example of 5 boys & 5 girls in a cinema, the two ways

of sitting are given as : BGBGBGBGBG & GBGBGBGBGB

as even in this situation no two girls sit together.

The answer should then be : 5! * 6! as after arranging 5 boys there

are six places in which the girls can be arranged

_B_B_B_B_B_

Hi Neelkamal

In the given example: it should be the desire of the girls also that

they won't let two boys sit together otherwise your version is correct.

Kamal Lohia

Hi Kamal,

C), otherwise how do i check which 1 is right n which 1 is wrong. Pls

help.

Thanks

Hi Deepti

that you can always relish the taste of problem solving. Also most of

the problems have been discussed already many times in above

posts. If you are unable to solve some question or have some doubt

in a particular question, you are more than welcome to discuss. But

please don't pressurize to provide answers to all the problems.

Kamal Lohia

Hi Kamal,

persons are sitting next to each other.

Thanks N Regards,

Deepti

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi Deepti

options. (Though we have already corrected in our assignments at

TathaGat)

13. Lets make sit the remaining 6 persons of 10. Now we are to

select 4 places only out of 7 available from where the chosen 4

persons were picked which can be easily done in C(7, 4) = 35 ways.

Option (b) is correct.

J, J, J which is given by 7!/(4!)(3!) or C(7, 3) = 35. Option (a) is

correct.

26. Just place those 3 blocks of 5 seats each, so that you have

used now 15 seats and remaining 5 seats are to be distributed

among the four gaps only. That's equivalent to find the number of

whole number solution of a + b + c + d = 5 which is given by C(5 + 4

- 1, 4 - 1) = C(8, 3) = 56.

Kamal Lohia

by nikita dhanuka - Wednesday, 11 May 2011, 10:31 PM

Hi Kamal

can be formed.

how to go about a similar sum if some of the beads are identical.

the exact question is:

such that, no two red beads are adjacent to each other. All the

beads of the same colour are identical. In how many ways can this

necklace be formed?"

the way i approached the sum...all the red beads can be arranged in

only 1 way. this leaves 6 spaces between them. these spaces have

to be filled with the remaining 3 blue and 3 green beads. now i am

stuck..this can be done in (5!/2*3!*3!)ways or (6!/2*3!*3!)ways??

please explain..

Hi Nikita

In the numerator part there will be surely 5! and not 6! but why are

you putting a 2 in denominator. Kindly express your thoughts.

Kamal Lohia

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi Nikita

it gets very complicated.

For the time being lets not consider the necklace case and just

consider the permutations of 6 red, 3 blue, and 3 green beads

around a circle such that no two red beads are adjacent to each

other.

Luckily here we just have to arrange the blue and green beads

between red beads as no two red beads can be together.

beads around a circle.

circular permutations to get (n - 1)! permutations.

arrangement, but actually they are same. Thats why we divide by n.

This is the case when we have all different objects(here we have

"rotational period of n"*).

an indistinguishable state from the first one

Now, suppose we have 3 red balls and 3 black balls. Now here we

can have cases when we have rotational period of 1 or 2 or 3 or 6

(factors of 6).

But 1 is not possible coz then we should have all balls of same

color.

Also 3 is not possible as then we need to have equal groups of

three balls which means by Pigeonhole there must be at least 2

balls of some color

Hence at least 4 balls of this color in all, which is not possible since

there must be 3 of each color. Hence, only possibilities are 2 or 6

rotational period of 6.

6*x + 2*1 = C(6, 3) = 20

=> x = 3

black balls around a circle.

So, if you wants to solve a similar kind of question, then just find the

number of different permutations of 6 black chairs and 6 white chairs

around a circle.

now we can look at the necklace from the back side also.

Hello Sir !

like

2) x+y+z = 10 if x, y, z are distince positive integers.

Thank You

Gaurav

hi kamal

flipped over. so, for every 2 different circular arrangements, we

actually have only one necklace. hence, divided the total no. of

possible circular arrangements by 2 to get the no. of distinct

necklaces.

even i was inclined towards 5!/3!*3!*2 as the answer. but, this is

obviously wrong as it doesn't give an integer value.

the book gives the answer as 6!/3!*3!*2. i am not being able to

understand the logic behind this.

i will appreciate if you can discuss your approach for this sum. and

also if you can shed some light on these kind of sums in

general...circular arrangement of things, some of which are identical.

thanks,

nikita

Hi Destiny

thanks for taking the time out. the book gives the answer as

6!/3!*3!*2 which works out to be 10.

i am still pretty confused in this regard.

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi Nikita

Hi Gaurav

case form an AP. You just need to add them to get the total number

of solutions. It comes out to be 3(1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 12) = 234.

as 1, 2, ..., 7 - that comes out to be 24.

OR just count the ordered triplets when all the three variables are

positive integers i.e. C(9, 2) = 36. And subtract the cases when any

two of the variables are same (e.g. 11.., 22.., 33.., 44..). So

removing 3*4 = 12 ordered triplts from total 36, we are left with 24

ordered triplets of three distinct positive integers which add up to

10.

stated question answer is going to be infinitely large. See If x + y + z

number of solutions of x + y + z = 11,...and so on. So there is no end

and the answer is

Kamal Lohia

I have a doubt:-

different colors, why have we not multiplied the outcome with 6?

when we fixed the first color, it could have been done in 6 ways..

what m i missing?

Hi TG

came across this forum damn too late but simply brilliant are

your lessons and tips... as much about basics and foundation

as they are about tricks and shortcuts minus any heavy duty

formulae.. a lot of my friends too are hooked onto this site now

enroute me ofcourse ;)

Hi TG,

understand P&C, that fear has somewhat vanished now..!!

groups.

groups.

by priyanka j - Wednesday, 7 September 2011, 11:50 AM

Sir,

many MP,MLA are there out of 10 speaker. Not able to understand d

sol. Plz explain.

frst 0 pecedes frst 1&2 or it means frst 0 preceds frst 1& first 1

preceds frst 2.

Thanks

ketav ,

u can get ans here

http://totalgadha.com/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=3683

boxes so that each box should have atleast one ball?

M y answer is 240.

regards

Regards,

Hi Amit

Please post the question statements here so that it becomes

easier for everyone to try their hands at the problems.

Kamal Lohia

such that they have no consequtive Us?

Q.27 There are 50 juniors and 50 seniors. Each class has 25 men

and 25 women. In how many ways can an 8 person committee be

chosen so that it includes 4 women and 3 juniors?

formula will find how many different ways I can arrange them? Order

does matter.

time out of the letters of the word "METAPHYSICS", in how many of

them will T letter occur?

a1<a2<a3<a4<a5 can be formed if ai must be chosen from the set

{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}?

My answer is 126. Can you please confirm?

boxes so that each box should have atleast one ball?

Amit

Hi Amit

arranged such that they have no consequtive Us?

containing the other four different letters with the condition that the

middle two boxes have atleast one letter each. So we need to find

the whole number ways of distributing 2 letters among 4 boxes i.e.

C(5, 3) = 10 ways. As all the four letters are different so they can be

arranged among themselves in 4! = 24 ways. So the final number of

ways = 240.

men and 25 women. In how many ways can an 8 person

committee be chosen so that it includes 4 women and 3

juniors?

need to select a team of 8 person which includes 4 women and 3

juniors (atleast or exactly is not mentioned). Assuming exactly, then

we have the following cases:

4W + 4M from 3J + 5S

J - 2W + 1M and S - 3M + 2W - C(25, 2)C(25, 1)C(25, 3)C(25,

2)

2)

ways are (2n)!/(n!2).

What formula will find how many different ways I can arrange

them? Order does matter.

choices and the 20th have 21 choices. So answer is 21!

Rest later.

Kamal Lohia

THANK YOU for the detailed and lucid explanation. By the way

can you please discuss the remaining possibilities of Q27.

Amit

by amit gupta - Friday, 30 September 2011, 08:05 PM

In the question: how many four letters can be formed from the word

Mathemetics why are the sub-dividing the problems into groups and

then solving ? Can't we directly use 11P4 ??

Also, similar approach is used for the 3 students 3 city question ?

would like to know the reason for it ?

time out of the letters of the word "METAPHYSICS", in how many of

them will T letter occur?

a1<a2<a3<a4<a5 can be formed if ai must be chosen from the set

{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}?

boxes so that each box should have atleast one ball?

Amit

by TG Team - Monday, 3 October 2011, 01:46 PM

Hi Amit

Check.

Kamal Lohia

Hi Amit

letters at a time out of the letters of the word "METAPHYSICS",

in how many of them will T letter occur?

selecting a T for sure while selecting 5 letters off the word

METAPHYSICS.

need to find the number of ways of selecting 4 more letters. Now

there are two cases: when all the four letters are different i.e. C(9, 4)

= 126 ways and when two letters are same (i.e. both are S) and

other two are different i.e. C(8, 2) = 28 ways.

a1<a2<a3<a4<a5 can be formed if ai must be chosen from the

set {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}?

Because in C(9, 5) ways you select five different numbers from the

available 9 and arrange them(according to desired order) in only one

possible way.

Q. In how many ways can we put 5 different balls in 4 different

boxes so that each box should have atleast one ball?

two balls(which can be selected in C(5, 2) = 10 ways) and the

remaining three balls can be arranged in three different boxes in 3! =

6 ways.

Kamal Lohia

Thank you Kamal sir for all your explainations. your way of

explaination is awesome....simple and clear!!!

Regards,

Amit

Hi Amit Gupta

cases and find the repetition.

Kamal Lohia

by Mohit Sharma - Wednesday, 9 May 2012, 01:05 PM

Hi Kamal Sir,

Can you please explain the following two questions as I'm unable to

solve them,

formed. Committee consists of a president, a vice-president and

three secretaries. Find the number of ways of selecting the

committee with a maximum of 2 women and having at the maximum

one woman holding one of the two posts on the committee.

a) 16

b) 512

c) 608

d) 256

e) 324

12 men, of which 3 must row on one side only and 2 must row on

the other side only. Find the number of ways of arranging the crew

with 4 members on each side.

a) 40320

b) 30240

c) 60840

d) 10080

e) None of these

Hi Mohit

question and then framing the solution.

choose 5 members from 4 M and 4W to form a committee. Of

these five members one is a president, one vice-president and

other three are secretaries.

cases can be 4M1W or 3M2W. Another condition is that maximum

one women holds one of the two posts. Here what i interpret

from the two posts is post of president/vice-president. That means

cases will be that no woman is president or vice-president AND

exactly one woman is president or vice-president.

president/vice-president = C(4, 1) 4 3 = 48

32

C(4, 3) C(4, 2) C(3, 1) 2 = 144

1) C(3, 1) 2 = 288

2. Again here I assume that these 3, which must row on one side

and 2, which must row on other side are to be chosen certainly. That

means I just need to choose 3 more out of 7 remaining in C(7, 3)

ways. Now out of the three newly selected members one should

be sent to 3 together's and remaining to other side with 2 together's

which can be done in C(3, 1). Now these groups can be arranged

among themselves in 4! each.

Kamal Lohia

thank you kamal sir,

I really didn't understood the question... thanks a lot...

Hi TG

In how many ways six different faces of cube be painted in different

color

Hi Prerna

differently named. But that is not the case, so you need to remove

the identical ones.

Kamal Lohia

by neha aggarwal - Thursday, 31 May 2012, 02:16 PM

Hi Kamal Sir

arranged such that they have no consequtive Us?

containing the other four different letters with the condition that the

middle two boxes have atleast one letter each. So we need to find

the whole number ways of distributing 2 letters among 4 boxes i.e.

C(5, 3) = 10 ways. As all the four letters are different so they can be

arranged among themselves in 4! = 24 ways. So the final number of

ways = 240.

In above explanation i did not get the condition? And solution to it..

As in how did U get C(5,3)?

Please explain

Hi Neha

remaining four letters (i.e. N, S, A and L) in 4! = 24 ways. Now

between these four letters (including at ends) we have exactly five

places at which U's can be placed.

select exactly 3 places out of these 5 in C(5, 3) = 10 ways such that

no two U's are together.

Kamal Lohia

sessions each day,one each of arithmetic ,algebra,geometry

and probability.These classes are to be held one after the

other in 4 distinct time slots and can be in any sequence

.Further there are 2 teachers available and they can teach any

topic.

arithmetic,algebra,geometry and probability,then what is

number of distinct ways in which the session can be planned

for entire week.

two consecutive days if both the teachers have to have equal

no. of sessions..?

my take(24* 2^4)*(24* 2^4)

dofferent divisions and sessiosn are schedules for these two

divisions 2ith classes being held simultaneously in 2 classrooms..in

how many ways can session be planned for these two divisions for

particular day?

Re: Permutation and Combination

Hi Manik

the teachers only at a paricular time slot. Now in one day, at any time

slot, the teacher can be assigned in 2 ways. So number of ways of

assigning teacher in one day is = 24 ways and for the entire week is

= 228 ways.

two consecutive days i.e. we have eight sessions which must be

assigned to the two teachers equally i.e. 4 sessions each which can

be achieved in C(8, 4) ways. Also the topics can be scheduled in the

two days in 4! ways each. So the required number of ways are =

(4!) C(8, 4) = 8!

be arranged for both of them in 4! ways each and teachers can be

assigned to both in 24 ways in total. Hence total number of ways

required are = (4!) 24.

particular topic arranged at a particular time slot taught by a particular

teacher only. Students don't matter in schedulling of the session.

Kamal Lohia

My another doubt in this topis is, like for above question mentioned

by neha:

In how many ways can the letters in UNUSUAL be arranged such

that they have no consequtive Us?

_n_s_a_l_, no two u's are together , so obvious answer is 4!*

C(5,3)=24*10=240.

But, as per question no two u's can be together, but NSAL can be

together, like _NS_A_L_,here answer would b like-

4!*C(4,2)=24*6=144.

letters- 7!/3!

Then no of ways when all U's are together, 5!=120

therefor,when no twou's are together= 840-120=720,

hi manik,

see you are including the cases when only two u's are

together,which are to be discarded,there's the flaw!! as u had just

debarred the cases in which all u are together and in 5c3 approach u

will see the case which u had mentioned is already incorporated,as

we are selecting the 3 blanks out of 5 blanks,hope its clear now

Hi arsh,

well Iam including all the three u's together,perhaps there are total 7

letters, 3 taken together which are to be counted as one and the rest

4 letters, so the in all the sum comes to 5.

Hi TG Sir/Kamal Sir,

This is a type.. I really get confused in identifying the cases.. Hope

am making sense.. Please explain the approach..

Thanks,

Neha

I think the answer will be

720*2*2*2

10 are there in total...1 couple will sit at one corner and other at

another corner so 720 arrangement

Couple can also changes seats in 2 ways as 2 couple are there 2*2

why cant be there an arrangment gbbgbgbgbg

still no girl is sitting together

Hi TG,

help. Can you please explain how to find out the rank of a string

when repetition of characters is allowed?

letters is allowed, then the number of 4-letter strings = 4X4X4X4 =

256. So how do I find out what is the 110th string?

Regards,

Alo

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