The Answer Is Layout:Layout 1 6/24/10
By K. Erickson and C. Mankenberg
The Society is not responsible for any statement made or opinion expressed herein. Data and information developed by the authors are for specific
informational purposes only and are not intended for use without independent, substantiating investigation on the part of potential users.
Q: Can ASME Section IX welder
qualifications be used and accepted
on AWS D1.1 projects?
A: The American Society for
Mechanical Engineers (ASME) Boiler
and Pressure Vessel Code and the AWS
D1.1, Structural Welding Code
Steel, are separate, stand-alone codes.
D1.1 usually will be referenced for
structural applications, and the ASME
Code will be referenced for pressure
piping and pressure vessels. Welder
qualifications for each project need to
be administered and documented to the
referenced code and standard. There
are many parameters for which AWS
and ASME overlap, but the welding
procedure specification (WPS) to
which each welder has tested needs to
address the applicable code(s) that the
WPS and welder will be qualified to
upon successful completion.
Q: I have just completed a ten-
month entry-level welding course.
Upon completion, I took a basic 1G
shielded metal arc welding plate test.
The inspector who oversaw this test
was talking about many things that
were foreign to the students such as
PQRs, WPSs, welding defects, and
measuring of welds. Does AWS offer
any type of training for either novice
or experienced welders on interfacing
with inspectors in the field?
A: (By Ken Erickson) Thanks for the
question. I am glad to receive feedback
from student welders entering the
welding industry. From my knowledge,
AWS does not offer training on this
subject that is geared toward welders. I
believe it would be beneficial if the
educational institutions that offer
welding courses would encompass
some credit hours toward topics such
32 Inspection Trends / July 2010
8:53 AM Page 32
The Answer Is
as welding codes, working with
welding inspectors, evaluating welds,
and even understanding welding
documents. Having a local CWI
present this information to the students
and answer questions would also be
very informative. You might look into
joining your local AWS Section as it
may offer some Section meetings that
cover some of this information.
I have hired out and contracted for
many CWIs over the last 25 years.
CWIs who began as welders and have
been brought up through the industry
seem to adapt easily to this
environment and interact favorably
with the welders performing the work.
Any training or program that would
increase the welders knowledge and
working relationship with the CWI
would benefit both parties.
Q: My company just won a job
where we have to build watertight
tanks out of stiffened steel plate. The
spec requires that we do vacuum box
testing of the tank boundary welds.
It also requires that we qualify the
procedure; basically, we have to
prove that it can find leaks. Its my
job to write the procedure and get it
qualified. I dont have any problems
with the vacuum boxes, gauges,
setup, etc., but Im having a hard
time figuring out how I can prove it
all works. I need a leak for that and
were trying to avoid those. Any
ideas?
A: We would first ask the client who
may have a specific idea in mind on
how to qualify the procedure. If you
cannot or do not want to turn to the
client, there is something else you can
do. Based on some things you should
already know (the joint configurations,
the welding processes to be used, and
discontinuities that could be
encountered), you should be able to
construct what you need. For example,
you can make up a small assembly out
of two small pieces of Plexiglas or
steel plate. Put them together in the
appropriate joint configuration (butt, T,
corner, lap, etc.) and join them by an
appropriate method (gluing or
welding). The next part is important.
You need to leave an unglued or
unwelded area, and it is important that
this area is about the same size as the
typical flaw size you have estimated.
You now have your leak.
Obviously the assembly has to be
large enough for the vacuum box to fit
completely, but you also want to make
it small enough to be portable. By
placing the vacuum box on this
assembly and pulling a vacuum, you
can demonstrate to your client that the
procedure will find leaks due to
through-thickness discontinuities of the
size that could be found in actual
production welds.
A bigger benefit, though, is that if
the leak size is truly representative of
what you could find in production, you
can use this assembly to fine tune your
procedure by adjusting the negative
pressure, the concentration of bubble-
forming solution, etc., until you get the
setup that gives you the best bubble
formation. You then plug this
information into your procedure.
Q: I am a CWI working for a testing
company where I cover a lot of fab
shops, both large and small. In one
of the smaller shops (a pretty good
outfit overall) there is a welder who
is just not that good, wont take
advice, and gives me a hard time
whenever I find something wrong
with this persons work. I am out of
patience, and Im thinking about
The Answer Is Layout:Layout 1 6/23/10 8:07 AM Page 33

disqualifying this welder, which is
allowed by paragraphs 4.1.3.1 and
4.32 of AWS D1.1:2008. The owner of
the testing lab I work for is advising
against this, though he is backing me
up and telling me to do what I feel is
right. What is your opinion?
A: You should disqualify a welder only
as a very last resort. Whenever you
publicly call into question the quality
of a persons work (and disqualifying
someone will make it public very
quickly) the person will probably take
it badly, their employer may take it
badly, the persons coworkers will take
it badly, etc. Instead of solving the
problem and making life easier for
yourself, it may instead make life more
difficult. The words you use to describe
the issue indicate to me that emotions
may be getting in the way of a
satisfactory solution to this issue.
We do not know any of the parties
involved here, so we cannot make any
judgments as to the character of the
people involved or as to the dynamics
of the relationships, but we think it
would be best if you proceed under the
assumption that like most people, this
welder wants to do a good job. If that is
so, then based on your description of
your inspection results, what this
welder needs is improvement. The best
way to achieve this is with some form
of positive correction, not something
punitive. Simply having this person
take another test, which is what is
required by the code provisions you
cite, would not provide this correction
and would therefore likely be seen as
punishment. Whats worse, it may be
seen as punishment for something
unrelated to weld quality, and were
sure youd agree that is to be avoided.
We recommend that you first
involve the shop supervisor, voice your
concerns using objective language, and
make a recommendation that the
welder receive appropriate training or
instruction. We suggest you have this
discussion with the welder present.
Provide only constructive criticism and
offer to help in whatever way you can
in order to be part of the solution.
Inspection Trends encourages
question and answer submissions. Please
mail to the editor (mjohnsen@aws.org).
KENNETH ERICKSON is manager of
quality at National Inspection &
Consultants, Inc., Ft. Myers, Fla. He is an
AWS Senior Certified Welding Inspector,
an ASNT National NDT Level III
Inspector in four methods, and provides
expert witness review and analysis for
legal considerations.
CLIFFORD (KIP) MANKENBERG is a
construction supervisor for Shell
International Exploration & Production,
Houston, Tex. He is an AWS Senior
Certified Welding Inspector and an ASNT
National NDT Level III Inspector
in five methods.

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Inspection Trends / Summer 2010 33