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LAST CREATED THREADS
Aug 6 '13 80 Last Comment 0 Follow

OMA Rotterdam internship interview
BulgarBlogger ( History | Contact ) Working without RIBA/ARB

Aug 6, 13 12:20 am
I have a question on computer program
used in us architecture firm
Someone on this forum just challenged me in defining architecture as completely different than
art. I believe that there is a difference, but that there is also an overlap. Do you agree or looking for Rhino and Grasshopper
disagree, and why? tutorial in DVD
Architectural Internship in Norway for a
North American Student
Miles Jaffe ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 12:47 am view all
DISCUSSED NEWS
I didn't challenenge you, I asked if you knew the difference them. Judging by your post here
soliciting the opinions of others on this forum rather than answering the simple question you
haven't got a clue. Trump may eliminate the National
Endowment for the Arts — here's why that
matters for architecture
Deborah Berkedesigned stylish,
Nothing wrong with that. But it wil be tough to learn anything with that kind of attitude.
sustainable tower opens in Indianapolis
Do architecture awards matter?
boy in a well ( History | Contact )
65,000 new streetlights illuminate Detroit
Aug 6, 13 1:07 am
—here's why that's important
boys, boys, boys . . . SCIArc can't seem to find a single female
architect to include in its Spring 2017
(or girls, girls, girls, as the case may be... who can tell...?) lecture series
miles admit you were being a dbag. View all
Bulgar uh .... remember, this is the internet.
DISCUSSED FEATURES
as to the question, easy. this debate was settled ages ago. Architecture usually, but not always,
has plumbing. and Art usually doesn't, but sometimes does!, have plumbing. Use your
imaginations for the venn diagram. The Proust Questionnaire: Daniel
Libeskind
ok then. back to shit talking eisenman's denkmal despite its being excellent.
Brexit Diaries: Chris Williamson, 13
January 2017
BulgarBlogger ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 3:21 am Getting the chair: how cinematic villains'
seats illuminate character
Working Out of The Box: Emily Hunt
Turner
Guy here...
Strapping on the Sacred: When Religion
Enters Virtual Reality
Miles: the following is my understanding of the difference between art and architecture: view all
1. Art
Art is creative expression that transcends the functional reuirements of its existence in any form
one chooses to manifest it.
2. Architecture
The artistic product derived from the process of synthesizing knowledge in construction,
engineering, human behavior and needs, and formal aesthetic order for the purpose of
responding to a particular problem involving human use and habitation which contributes to
the cultural capital of the society that benefits from such a product.
kadampatil ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 4:53 am
art
artist is some one who express his thought to the masses ,irrespective of what other like or
dislike ,it is his extension of mind,it has nothing to do with the constraints
architecture
is a science which is a subset of art which involves in solving problem with an artistic
approach,considering the constraints and coming out with the best possible optimized solution
Aug 6, 13 10:16 am
This should be good.
BulgarBlogger ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 10:31 am
Mr. Jaff:
Any ideas you would like to share with us today on the topic, or shall we continue to amuse
ourselves with "immature" responses lile the one above? Don't answer the second part of the
question (the one after the comma) it was rhetorical...
Aug 6, 13 11:59 am
I have some ideas on the subject but prefer to reserve them until others have had their say and
the topic has advanced a bit. In the mean time I hope to find some amusement here.
And dude, a word of advice. You're anonymous on this forum, the only personal investment you
have here is whatever you imagine it to be. Don't be so quick to take offense. Your ego is not
your friend.
gwharton ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 12:39 pm
Architecture is craft, not art. That does not mean it cannot be done artfully, but it still isn't art.
When architecture is pushed to become art, it becomes sculpture, not architecture.
observant ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 1:11 pm
I'll be reductionist and say art is artsyfartsy and architecture is multifaceted. I'm joking. It takes
talent to be a good artist and my attempts at traditional art, such as oil painting, were not
enjoyable and thus not productive. I also find that I have never related to artists that well. You
know, they're too liberal, spiritual instead of religious, into eastern thought, into meditation,
have weird dietary restrictions, and tend to frequent hot springs. Actually, I stopped feeling less
guilty about not being an art connoisseur when, in the first term of arch. history, our prof said
that FLW, who I don't salivate over, wasn't into nonobjective art. Yes, I agree with wharton that
architecture is the most disciplined of the crafts. Can anyone spell "surgical suite?"
BTW, if you're doing a painting, don't forget to sign the bottom right hand corner with "Art Z.
Fartsy."
Jono Lee ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 2:04 pm
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
Some general differences I've found: HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Joseph Vance Architects ,
In art, aesthetics and visual cues are used to rationalize/justify the theory (especially true in Brooklyn, NY, US
photoconceptual art).
Intermediate Architect
Conversely in architecture, theory and research are used to rationalize the aesthetic/design. Joseph Vance Architects ,
Brooklyn, NY, US

Designer / Project
Art bears no responsibility for its actions. I'd argue that its "duty" has always been to subvert Manager
and be socially destructive. Art is not a service, but an opinion. Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
New York, NY, US
Architecture has a social responsibility. Built work, must appeal to the client, must follow by
Architect
laws and meet deadlines and budgets. Architecture is at its core, part of a service. Ratcliffe Architects ,
Baltimore, MD, US

Middleweight Architect
There is no design in art. Otherwise, it would be design. Having said that, artists are not March & White LLC, New
asked to creative, but subversive. That often means being specialized in a particular medium York, NY, US
(but not always the case).
Senior Designer
Design is found in architecture. I don't think I need to go on any further there. CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
Architecture & Design, New
York, NY, US

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jlax ( History | Contact )
Aug 6, 13 2:35 pm
There is no design in art
that is not true. many artists design an experience. they work within the constraints of human
perception and natural phenomenon. Land art or any site specific art is a good example.
The main difference imo is that....
artists create noise out of silence whereas architects create silence out of noise.
Architects resolve preexisting problems into something with harmony whereas artists create
the "problem" and then resolve it into something with harmony.
Aug 6, 13 3:17 pm
The subject may be of design, but not design itself.
Aug 6, 13 5:12 pm
+++ gwharton
There are instances of the craft of architecture becoming art: where the intention was not to
make art but where the craft was so exquisite that the result is transcendental.
thomas carlson ( History | Contact )
Aug 12, 13 12:41 am
Art and Architecture are highly related with each other.Only good architecture can make good
art forms.
Aug 12, 13 2:37 am
@thomas carlson
I couldn't disagree more.
utopianrobot ( History | Contact )

Project Manager /
Aug 12, 13 7:57 am Senior Architect
HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
New York, NY, US
As irrelevant as frank lloyd wright is today he offered up a definition that in my opinion still is.
Senior Architect
“The mother art is architecture..." Joseph Vance Architects ,
Brooklyn, NY, US
Likewise Gropius states that art rises above all other methods. Intermediate Architect
So is architecture art? Depends on how you define it for yourself. That's what makes it such an Brooklyn, NY, US
engaging profession.
Designer / Project
Manager
Miles Jaffe ( History | Contact ) Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
New York, NY, US
Aug 12, 13 10:03 am
Architect
Ratcliffe Architects ,
As irrelevant as frank lloyd wright is today Baltimore, MD, US
That is about the most idiotic thing I've read in a while. Middleweight Architect
March & White LLC, New
At least since Only good architecture can make good art forms. York, NY, US
Senior Designer
b3tadine[sutures] ( History | Contact )
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
Aug 12, 13 10:30 am Architecture & Design, New
York, NY, US
Utility. The Archinect job board
That's ultimately the difference.
Hejduk, Raimund Abraham, and Lebbeus Woods [and others], have many times transcended
both.
Kevin W. ( History | Contact )
Aug 12, 13 3:06 pm
I think this could be answered better by nonarchitects and nonartists. For instance, I posted
some pics of my house on a midcentury Facebook site.....I had several comments such as "It
must be wonderful to live in a work of art"..and other similar comments. If a comment like that
can come from an average person, then yes, I do believe architecture can be art. But art is
subjective...
Aug 12, 13 3:08 pm
Frank Lloyd Wright is irrelevant today? Really? Explain that one.
OP17 ( History | Contact )

Aug 12, 13 11:30 pm
Architecture by definition is the built environment that results from a scientifically grounded
collaboration between different servicebased parties. The built environment can both be
interpreted subjectively and objectively by the viewer, but must adhere to rationalized
processes concerning design, construction, engineering, and peer review, if it were to be
realized in the real world.
Aug 12, 13 11:58 pm
rationalized processes? OK
For a moment I thought you said rational processes.
Aug 13, 13 12:07 am
^ LOL

jim_jam ( History | Contact )
Aug 13, 13 6:43 am
I've always held the opinion that art harbours no function other that itself.
Project Manager /
Architecture provides a function, but I think it would it be fair to say that art is found within Senior Architect
architecture? HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
New York, NY, US
thomas carlson ( History | Contact )

Senior Architect
Aug 13, 13 7:20 am Brooklyn, NY, US
Artist database contains the largest collection of great art works from different parts of the
world.You can see the list of these art forms from this. Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
b3tadine[sutures] ( History | Contact ) Manager
Aug 13, 13 9:30 am Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
New York, NY, US
FLW is as relevant as the books my random family members gave me for Christmas. Architect
Baltimore, MD, US
Donna Sink ( History | Contact )
Aug 13, 13 9:57 am Middleweight Architect
York, NY, US
This is a lovely poetic way of thinking about it: Artists create noise out of silence whereas
architects create silence out of noise. Thank you jlax! Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
I also agree with gwharton: Architecture is craft, not art. That does not mean it cannot be done Architecture & Design, New
York, NY, US
artfully, but it still isn't art.
It all comes down to intention. Artmaking is an incredibly selfconscious act. If you're not attracts the world's top
intentionally trying to make art, you might make something wonderfully artful, but it's not art. If
you're intentionally making architecture, you won't ever make art, because art initiates from a View all Jobs Post a Job
different place.
Aug 13, 13 11:26 am
Architecture is not art, it is design. If it ceases to be design is no longer providing a particular
functional requirement it is not architecture.
Art in architecture is the art in craft, the ability of the architect to manipulate light and materials
to define space. This is essentially no different from a master craftsman making baskets,
pottery, furniture, etc.
As craftsmen we strive to impress our mentors and peers. The highest praise for an architect
doesn't come from a critic or client, it comes from another architect who admires your work as
the result of your craft. And the more you respect and admire them the more it means when
they praise your work.
We all have buildings and architects that we admire. The question is what do we admire them
for?
A stylish but dysfunctional building is a failure no matter what it looks like. It's more frustrating
and expensive to deal with than it's worth: think dumb blond. Yeah, she's cute, but after 5
minutes you're ready to move on. (OK, maybe a couple of weeks.)
Functionality can be an aesthetic in itself. There are a number of buildings and engineered
structures that are beautiful not in an aesthetic sense but in an efficient and purposeful sense.
One measure of good design is that it's not noticeable: when something functions perfectly we
tend not to notice it it's only when it doesn't function (like that #*%!@ can opener that pinched
you, or the view of the toilet from the dining room) that we do.
A building in which function and aesthetics combine successfully is wellcrafted. And since
aesthetics are entirely subjective, I tend to weight function more highly.
So when is a building art? When we recognize a superlative combination of function and
aesthetics that seems beyond what we are capable of individually. When it is a source of
inspiration and delight on multiple levels simultaneously. When it is a magnificent
demonstration of the craft of architecture.
anonitect ( History )
Aug 13, 13 12:16 pm
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
Miles
New York, NY, US
You go from "Architecture is not art, it is design." to "So when is a building art? When we
recognize a superlative combination of function and aesthetics..." Senior Architect
People don't want to admit that architecture is art because then the built environment reflects so Brooklyn, NY, US
poorly on us, so they use a definition of art that only covers useless collectibles, but your last
paragraph makes a reasonably coherent argument for why architecture is in fact art. Intermediate Architect
Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
Aug 13, 13 12:27 pm Manager
Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
New York, NY, US
No, people don't want to "admit" that architecture is art because architecture is not art. I think
Miles meant architecture can sometimes "become artful". Architect
I may be wrong about what Miles meant, but I'm not wrong about architecture not being art. Baltimore, MD, US
chatter of clouds ( History | Contact )
Aug 13, 13 12:58 pm York, NY, US
Senior Designer
hi BulgarBlogger; CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
I think an all encompassing statement that architecture has simply little to do with art but with York, NY, US
design and therefore cannot be art is artless. Design also goes on a canvas how you frame
a figure, where your horizontals are, where do you place the model's eyes, where you place attracts the world's top
your wintry tree ...these are questions of design within art and thus design is not antithetical to architectural design talents.
art (painting, sculpture and so on) and thus one does not preclude the other. In my View all Jobs Post a Job

understading, trying to suss out whether an object (including architecture) is of art happens
through recognizing the places that it occupies intellectually, figuratively, aesthetically and
historically. I think its really more a question of when architecture is an art. this even is
applicable within the 'uncontested' arts: people who know music, for instance, would tell you
that etudes generally were not works of arts but that with the likes of Chopin, Rachmaninoff
and even Bach way before them had raised pieces written for pedagogical purposes (i.e.
functional purposes) to the level of art.
gwharton ( History | Contact )
Aug 13, 13 2:09 pm
It's a very common stance in the modern era to treat everything manmade as if it was art. But
this essentially Nietzschean position that anything made somehow can approach the
apotheosis of art if it is done aesthetically ignores what art really is and why we make art as
opposed to other forms of artifice.
Art is fundamentally about the reification of values (or, really, metavalues), so they may be
experienced directly as perceptual concretes. This fulfills a a deep psychological need in
human beings and is the impetus to the creation of art. This is the ONLY purpose of art, and it is
primary in both its creation and evaluation. To the extent that art serves other purposes than
this (e.g. didacticism, transgression, utility, etc.) it fails as art and becomes something else
(most often kitsch). Incidentally, this is why art in the modern era has become so sterile,
decadent, and impoverished: most artists have chosen to engage in pranks and propaganda
instead of making actual art. After all, making real art is hard work.
Architecture can never be art because it must necessarily encompass the utilitarian.
Architecture must perform. It must accommodate human needs, behavior, and ergonomics.
Even if harmonized and integrated with the aesthetic telos in a truly artful and "organic" work of
architecture, merely the presence of the utilitarian dimension, even if it's not primary, makes it
"not art." Saying that architecture can be art is a category error.
So, when we characterize architecture as "craft" or "design", we are acknowledging that reality.
Again, just because architecture isn't art does not mean it cannot be created artfully or cannot
become aesthetically powerful (even transcendental). In fact, it is the great challenge and
potential of architecture that it can achieve powerful, allencompassing aesthetic effects while
also keeping the rain off our heads and giving us place to park the car. Design is harder to do
than art because of this teleological multidimensionality.
Aug 13, 13 2:50 pm

Incidentally, this is why art in the modern era has become so sterile, decadent, and
impoverished: most artists have chosen to engage in pranks and propaganda instead of
making actual art. After all, making real art is hard work.
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
It's useless to try and define real art. I still think it's a matter of opinion. This man's work HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
(DuChamp) shook the 20th century, and there's no denying that: New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Brooklyn, NY, US
Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
Manager
New York, NY, US
Architect
Baltimore, MD, US
York, NY, US
Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
York, NY, US
gwharton ( History | Contact ) architectural design talents.
Aug 13, 13 3:02 pm View all Jobs Post a Job
It's useless to try and define real art.
This is a profoundly antiintellectual and antiartistic statement, and also happens to be false. If
you come to understand what art is (and isn't), and can articulate that (with, for instance, a
definition) then you can do art better. You can also talk about art in ways that are intelligible to
other people.
Bringing this back to architecture for a moment, one of the biggest frustrations most architects
experience professionally is the difficultly in making analytic arguments in favor of aesthetic
decisions in design. How many of us have heard the phrase "that's just architecture" from a
client in reference to some important design choice intended primarily for aesthetic effect? How
often are aesthetic concerns dismissed by clients and contractors as "matters of opinion" or
irrelevancies? If you, as the designer, don't understand aesthetics, can't articulate why some
aesthetic choices are objectively better than others, don't make the case for the necessity of
artfulness in design, then dealing with this sort of thing quickly becomes a nightmare. If it's
purely subjective and "just a matter of opinion," then their opinion will always overrule yours
since they hired you. You will consistently fail to create and deliver value because you can't
explain where the value is and why it's important.
Aug 13, 13 3:18 pm
Very well said, point taken.
*I think I learned something today
Aug 13, 13 3:40 pm
I decide what is or isn't art. No book or person tells me what Art is, I can figure that out on my
own after experiencing it. There are definitions for everything, who says I have to believe all of
them. I prefer living a life recognizing great Architecture is Art.
Aug 13, 13 3:50 pm
gwharton, i'll side with you that contemporary art is decadent and impoverished because we
live in a society (speaking from the U.S.) that only privileges that which is quantifiable and
capable of performance measurements. function is defined by lowest cost and highest
investment return, followed by efficiency of energy use. therefore you have artists doing 30ft
tall inflatable balloon sculptures and unicorns frozen in tanks. in the united states most people
have no knowledge of aesthetics (as in philosophy) or could even name an artist from the 20th
Project Manager /
century save for Picasso and Andy Warhol. we have a destructive political party trying to Senior Architect
defund art and cultural institutions to promote a narrow ideology that is hostile to women, HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
people of color, the elderly, and essentially anyone who stands in the way of personal profit New York, NY, US
and saving the souls of fetuses. the reach is so severe that as you state, architects, trained in
Senior Architect
making aesthetic decisions, can't or barely can defend these decisions to clients.
Brooklyn, NY, US
@ jono lee, architecture can't be subversive? what about the bauhaus, superstudio or SITE or
archigram, or today organizations such as rural studio in alabama? Intermediate Architect
also, why is FLW irrelevant today? he was just one architect. by many designers Brooklyn, NY, US
function/aesthetic definition on this forum he wasn't very good either. leaky roofs, cantilevers
Designer / Project
that needed bracing, uncomfortable furniture, egomaniac, treated interns poorly, overran Manager
client budgets. Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
New York, NY, US
but even from an ideas standpoint for example, broadacre city was just a futuristic automobile
driven suburb. sure he designed beautiful buildings which were rooted in his own Architect
understanding of romanticism and christianity, but there are serious limits to what students can Ratcliffe Architects ,
Baltimore, MD, US
learn from him that are useful in a contemporary context.
@miles, thanks for posting Guggenheim, perhaps his best project and also subversive given
the urban context. York, NY, US
Senior Designer
Jono Lee ( History | Contact ) CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
Aug 13, 13 4:17 pm Architecture & Design, New
York, NY, US
@utopianrobot The Archinect job board
Those are some good examples you pointed out. You could also bring up in today's practices,
Thom Mayne and Tina DiCarlo who have in ways, grafted art and architectural discourse into a
singular discussion. But the extent of its subversion is really limited to its social responsibility.
For art, there simply is no mandate for it to adhere to any restrictions or be contained in any
way. Consider art exhibitions where the gallery will quite literally reorganize its own interior
space to cater to specific installation work.
A key component in architecture is it's social responsibility, and in ways, that is what "inhibits" it
from really being socially destructive with intent. Sure, radical ideas may float around, but at the
end of the day, it must secure a level of confidence in the public domain. It must function within
its means; but whether that is done successfully is what is always in question.
Aug 13, 13 4:47 pm
Well said, gwharton.
Updated to add: So Kevin W., when a spec home builder tells you that s/he can decide what is
and isn't architecture, will you accept their point of view without comment?
Aug 13, 13 4:59 pm
Donna.. I don't imagine I will ever have a conversation with a spec home builder. There will
always be spec homes disgracing our landscapes, those who build them and those who desire
them are not for me, nor am I for them.
Don't they already decide that anyway? There always has to be something for the masses,
right?
Aug 13, 13 5:31 pm
++Jono 'social responsibility'
Aesthetic choices in architecture are primarily rooted in functional concerns, the fulfillment of
which is by definition the purpose of architecture. Therefore architecture is design.
I was wondering who would bring up DuChamp. There's also Warhol, who simultaneously
trivialized and commercialized art. Look a the difference between them and Picasso or Wim
Delvoye.

gwharton: I once heard a story about a group of architects discussing what angle to set an
accessory building at. They all had various psuedophilosophical arguments for the number of
degrees to turn it without consideration for topography, natural light, views, effect on other
structures, etc.
Project Manager /
utopianrobot: Among other things Wright is solely responsible for the residential open floor Senior Architect
plan. New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Aug 13, 13 5:48 pm Brooklyn, NY, US
corbusier: free plan
Brooklyn, NY, US

Designer / Project
Aug 13, 13 5:55 pm Manager
New York, NY, US
Should we have concretely differentiated hobby/craft art to high contemporary art? And also, to
differentiate commercial buildings/public use to "real architecture" as Eisenman would have Architect
distinguished? Ratcliffe Architects ,
Baltimore, MD, US
Perhaps our disagreements and general mixups come from not properly differentiating both.
Kevin W. ( History | Contact ) York, NY, US
Aug 13, 13 6:07 pm
Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
People from around the world tour Wright buildings that are open to the public, books on Wright
York, NY, US
continue to be wriiten and purchased. Many still want to experience the qualities that Wright
brought to residential design today. Especially with the trend and love affair with MCM, Wright The Archinect job board
is very relevant. To appeciate the important contributions Wright had to modern Architecture, architectural design talents.
perhaps it is important to look beyond the tabloid type reports and the (yawn) yet another leaky
roof mention.
My house was designed and built by one of Wrights favorite apprentices, who was my friend
and mentor. People regularly stop and photograph my house and ask questions. Those I let in
are amazed by the quality of light, space, interest and warmth of materials and quality of
construction. There is still a lot to gain from what Wright has left us.
chatter of clouds ( History | Contact )
Aug 13, 13 6:54 pm
gwharton;
"this essentially Nietzschean position that anything made somehow can approach the
apotheosis of art if it is done aesthetically" how did you come about that understanding of
Nietzsche? and what do you mean by an "apotheosis of art"?
"Art is fundamentally about the reification of values (or, really, metavalues), so they may be
experienced directly as perceptual concretes. This is the ONLY purpose of art, and it is primary
in both its creation and evaluation." I don't think i agree here; first, yours is a very hindsighty
proclamation and seems to stem from a static cultural athropological reading of
art. furthermore, something of the same can be said with reference to many other cultural
anthropologies. so your statement is wrong in that it is not what art is specifically about, since
this is a general condition of reading art as well as other areas of inheritance from a cultural
anthropological point of view. to accord with your evaluation, art would have to be besides
itself. also, you condemn art to a passive receptor of reification. i think this is not only simplistic
in approaching art but also simplistic in approaching the "reification of values". Do you know
what these so called values are? Where they come from? Are they not able to change and
evolve or devolve, be replaced? Is art creation itself not an agent that contributes to at least
emphasizing some values over others, perhaps even open up some cracks in those
values...basically, is art not a contributing force within the history of humanity as opposed to a
passive reflection of a process of value reification?
And of course although you make your belief quite clear but I find that singling out utilitarian
endowment as a necessary preclusion of artistic endowment unjustified and lacking a breadth
of imagination. i would even suggest that utility in architecture is in itself an abstraction of sorts
by being both :
a preemptorily planned utility tduring design stage hat eventually translates into a very casual
subconscious usage of the building proper therefore architecture may be well imagined and
appreciated seperate of its utilitarian qualification and architectural imagination may well dwell
on all other aspects but function.
a contingent qualification that may be usurped. we see this in historical buildings that have
become practically speaking a selfdisplay of their artistry. interestingly, utility at that time
becomes subject to he larger fold of art appreciation for we then see utility under the rubric of
cultural anthropology and symbolism. in your terms which i contest above the utilitarian
aspect becomes part of the cultural reification.
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
Jono Lee ( History | Contact ) HWKN (Hollwich Kushner) ,
New York, NY, US
Aug 13, 13 7:15 pm
Senior Architect
Utility can be found in art as well. Maoist government in China used art as Joseph Vance Architects ,
Brooklyn, NY, US
propaganda. Political art can be used as powerful agents of change and control...
Also, I think art is relatively "quick" compared to architecture. Art can be more adaptive and
relevant to the most immediate conditions of time, as the output of the work can be produced Brooklyn, NY, US
faster. Architecture on the other hand, as Koolhaas would say, is slow in "keeping up".
Designer / Project
Manager
Miles Jaffe ( History | Contact ) Lumen Architecture, PLLC,
Aug 13, 13 10:22 pm New York, NY, US
Architect
Usonian Ratcliffe Architects ,
Baltimore, MD, US
1. native materials
2. passive solar heating & cooling March & White LLC, New
York, NY, US
3. natural lighting (clerestory)
4. convectiondriven radiant heat Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
5. interiorexterior connection (nature aesthetic) Architecture & Design, New
York, NY, US
Five Points
1. pier foundation attracts the world's top
2. roof garden
3. free design of the ground plan
4. horizontal windows
5. free design of the facade
Note that 3, 5 and by direct extension 4 are all the result of 1, using columns for support rather
than bearing walls, making this a 2point plan. Nothing about mechanical systems necessary to
manage the building, nothing about connecting to the surrounding environment, though I give
Corbu credit for replacing the lost footprint on the site with a roof garden (in theory at least, the
"roof garden" at Villa Savoye is just a big terrace with a few plants). Horizontal windows? LOL
Corbu was an elitist stylist. His vision of utopia is frightening and fortunately unbuilt although it
has inadvertently become a model for urban capitalist society: exclusive highrises for the rich
and dense vertical tenement cities for the poor, all surrounded by cars. Let's not even get
started on the differences between the sterile white box and the craftsman's house. The failure
of Corbu's muchcopied classic modernism led directly to post [gag] modernism and pseudo
[barf]classical.
Corbu wanted to dominate the environment, Wright wanted to integrate people into it.
If that isn't enough: Frank Lloyd Wright vs. Le Corbusier
I rest my case. Although I do really like Notre Dame du Haut. And only partly because it
abandons the Five (actually two) Points.
chessterfish ( History | Contact )
Aug 14, 13 1:45 pm
definition from google:
"art
/ärt/
Noun
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual
form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
Works produced by such skill and imagination."
So Architecture is a form of Art by this definition. The argument of its a Craft therefore it cannot
be an Art doesn't seem very logical.
toasteroven ( History | Contact )
Aug 14, 13 2:08 pm

this is art:
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Brooklyn, NY, US
Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
Manager
New York, NY, US
Architect
Baltimore, MD, US
York, NY, US
Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
York, NY, US
and this is architecture:
as you can clearly see art has people and is photographed from human eye level and
architecture is devoid of people and photographed from helicopters.
Aug 14, 13 3:55 pm
ART
Cloaca, Wim Delvoye, $1,000
CRAFT
Chamber Pot, George E. Ohr, est. Auction price: $1,000
Project Manager /
Senior Architect
New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Brooklyn, NY, US
Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
Manager
New York, NY, US
Architect
Baltimore, MD, US
York, NY, US
Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
York, NY, US
ARCHITECTURE, Wainscot NY, $45,000,000
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Project Manager /
Senior Architect
New York, NY, US
Senior Architect
Brooklyn, NY, US
Brooklyn, NY, US
Designer / Project
Manager
New York, NY, US
Architect
Baltimore, MD, US
York, NY, US
Senior Designer
CRÈME / Jun Aizaki
York, NY, US

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