12/28/2017 Nozzle displacements of a compressor - Intergraph CADWorx & Analysis

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Nozzle displacements of a compressor #53071 - 02/21/13 04:16 AM

pooria1978 Go
Advanced
Member my question is with regards to checking the loads of the nozzles of a
compressor. the data from the vendor hasn't been in yet, so I have to Who's Online
Registered:
sort of "fumble" my way out.
02/25/08 0 registered (), 15
Posts: 223 the situation is, there were 2 nozzles on the LP stage of the compressor,
Guests and 1 Spider
Loc: Netherlands now they are going to merge it with an extra stage (LLP-low low
online.
pressure) and replace the old barrel with a new one housing 4 nozzles (2
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
for LP and other 2 for LLP). I have got the old stress calculation and I
see that the loads used for nozzle load checking Nema style are derived
December
from EXP. case. I know that the SUS loads on the nozzles of a
compressor should be almost zero but, I wonder if anyone could confirm Su M Tu W Th F Sa
this method? 1 2
my other question is if anyone knows what the base point of nozzle
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
displacement calculation is. can I simply calculate the expansion based
on the resolution point and used as nozzle displacement? 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: #53075 - 02/21/13 09:27 AM
pooria1978]
Forum Stats
Ltorrado 11362 Members
Member First of all, it is good engineering practice that the compressor nozzle 14 Forums
loadings should fall under NEMA or API limits for BOTH the cold 15171 Topics
Registered:
10/19/10 sustained case and the operating case. I've seen a lot of engineers 68430 Posts
Posts: 27 neglect the cold sustained case because the code does not explicitly say
Loc: Metairie, LA if it should be checked for both sustained and operating. But think about Max Online: 105 @ 07/02/17
it, a lot of weight in the sustained case could cause deformation of the 10:16 PM
casing just as easily as the operating case. Compressor don't heat up
instantaneously.

Second, whoever checked the nozzle loads in the EXP case made a
severe mistake. This is WRONG. You should check it for the OPE case.
The EXP case is just substracting the effects of temperature to check
against the code's allowable expansion stress range. So when you are
checking for support loadings and equipment loadings you should always
refer to the OPE case and the SUS case.

Third, as far as the nozzle displacements go. I would look at the

compressor itself and determine how it is attached to the
foundation/skid. I can provide some guidance but it really depends what
type of compressor you have.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: #53098 - 02/22/13 07:14 AM

pooria1978]
pooria1978
Dear Ltorrado,
Member
Thanks for your reply, I agree with you when you said that the loads
Registered:
02/25/08 should be checked in OPE case but, considering the fact that the nozzles
Posts: 223 should be load-free during installation, the only effective element
Loc: Netherlands remaining is temperature. So, although it was the first time I saw such a
thing, it did not seem completely wrong to me.

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12/28/2017 Nozzle displacements of a compressor - Intergraph CADWorx & Analysis
Unfortunately there is no final drawings of the compressor available
however, your third note brought up one huge doubt for me; if we could
calculate the nozzle displacements of a compressor, why would we
bother keep asking it from the vendor at all? the compressor is a
centrifugal and the nozzle sizes are 8,10,8 and 6.Could you provide me
with more guidance in this regard?

Thanks

Edited by pooria1978 (02/22/13 07:15 AM)

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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: #53106 - 02/22/13 09:38 AM

pooria1978]

Ltorrado
Member You will never have a nozzle "load-free" during installation. A lot of
vendors that don't know what they are doing put a note in their
Registered:
10/19/10 equipment drawings/documents that states: "Zero loads should be
Posts: 27 applied to the equipment nozzles". That's just their way of covering their
Loc: Metairie, LA ass. That is ignorant since it is impossible to provide absolutely zero
loads at the nozzle connections.

And really your argument is irrelevant because, like I said, EXP case
loads are not real (so it is completely wrong). Again, the loads should
pass for both the SUS and OPE cases, individually.

I said you can calculate the displacements of the compressor because I

thought it was an existing unit. If you are communicating with the
vendor on a new unit, then you could request the displacements
although some people will probably not be able to do this. You can try
though.

You can also request they provide allowable nozzle loads because
sometimes some vendors allow increases from NEMA or API limits.

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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: #53149 - 02/26/13 06:57 AM

pooria1978]
Edward Klein
Oh, but this forum so needs a way to add upvotes for peoples posts. +1
Member for Ltorrado.
Registered: _________________________
10/24/00 Edward L. Klein
Posts: 320
Loc: Houston, Pipe Stress Engineer
Texas, USA
All the world is a Spring

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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: Edward #53154 - 02/26/13 09:28 AM

Klein]

Ltorrado
Member

Registered:
10/19/10
Posts: 27
Loc: Metairie, LA
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Re: Nozzle displacements of a compressor [Re: #53184 - 02/27/13 08:51 PM

pooria1978]

deb j paul
Member Hi sir,
Registered:
11/17/07 For conservatism you may model compressor,like pump modeling,placing
Posts: 49 anchor towards the motor end and connect your nozzles to it as rigid
Loc: delhi,india elements along cg.

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12/28/2017 Nozzle displacements of a compressor - Intergraph CADWorx & Analysis
You will get the thermal displacement about your nozzles.But all the
nozzles must be modelled in single Package.

and then start your analysis checking all OPE and SUS cases.
Design condition may not be checked for loads but for stress range need
to be.

Comparing the load cases as per 4 times NEMA or 2 Times API617 as

standard practice.

for load free during installation you need to check WNC case of nozzle,
during that condition nozzle shall not exceed movement in any direction
beyong 1 mm.
_________________________
DJ PAUL
jr. stress engineer

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